December 7, 2023 • 28 mins
Carla Schwan, CAES assistant professor and UGA Cooperative Extension food safety specialist joins us for a food safety-themed holiday episode! Carla shares how to safely prepare and share food during the holiday season, including gifting homemade food items like infused oils, canned produce and baked goods. Listen in to learn easy ways to prevent foodborne illnesses during the holidays – and every day!
Resources
The Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) Big 9
Serving up the facts: Food science and safety with Manpreet Singh
FoodKeeper App from the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA)
UGA Extension:
- So Easy to Preserve
- Find your local county Extension office
- How to Safely Make Infused Oils: Best Practices for Food Safety (Extension publication)
CAES Newswire articles:
- Prevent raw flour from being a recipe for disaster in your kitchen
- How to safely infuse oil for homemade gifts
- Avoid foodborne illness when preserving food at home
Produced by Jordan Powers and Emily Davenport
Edited by Jordan Powers
Music and sound effects by Mason McClintock, an Athens-based singer, songwriter and storyteller who creates innovative soul-pop music that transcends traditional genre boundaries. Hailing from small-town Southeast Georgia, Mason's influences range from the purest pop to the most powerful gospel. Mason is a former Georgia 4-H'er and University of Georgia graduate! Listen to his music on Spotify.
Almanac is an annual publication that provides a window into the work being done at CAES to make the world increasingly healthy, equitable and sustainable. We are pleased to announce that the 2024 edition is now available online. Explore stories of science in service of humanity and the environment.
Get social with us!
Follow CAES on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn and check out UGA Extension on on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn for the latest updates.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sound Effect (00:00):
[music]
Emily Davenport (00:01):
Welcome to Cultivating Curiosity, where we
get down and dirty with theexperts on all the ways science
and agriculture touch our lives,from what we eat to how we live.
I'm Emily Davenport.
Jordan Powers (00:13):
And I'm Jordan Powers. And we're from the
University of Georgia's Collegeof Agricultural and
Environmental Sciences.
Sound Effect (00:19):
[chime]
Jordan Powers (00:21):
We are here with Carla Schwan, assistant
professor and Extension foodsafety specialist. Carla, thank
you so much for joining ustoday.
Carla Schwan (00:28):
Good morning.
Thank you for having me. Iappreciate the opportunity to
connect.
Jordan Powers (00:32):
Absolutely. We are really excited for this
episode, especially ahead of thevery quickly approaching holiday
season.
Emily Davenport (00:39):
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Powers (00:39):
Before we dive into some of the holiday related
food safety questions. Tell us alittle bit about your background
and how you got started in foodsafety.
Carla Schwan (00:46):
I majored in food science and technology. So I'm
originally from Brazil, andmajored in food science and
technology. And during myundergrad, I wanted to do an
internship to learn more whicharea I wanted to go, and food
microbiology, especiallybacteria, always fascinated me.
So goes back to when I was alittle kid and I had an
infection with E. Coli. And Igot really, really sick was in
(01:07):
the hospital for a month. And itturned out I had Shiga
toxin-producing E. coli, whichis a strain of bacteria that
produces toxin in yourintestines, and it can lead to
severe consequences. One of themshutting down your kidneys, so I
was on dialysis, and doctorsdidn't think it was going to
make it. And usually when youhave this type of bacteria, they
do not give you antibiotics,because if the bacteria is
(01:27):
resistant, then likely you'regoing to die from it. But in
last resort, they give you theantibiotic because that's the
last thing they can do. So theygave gave me the antibiotics.
And here I am. So the bacteriathankfully was not resistant,
and I made it. And since then Iwas about 12 years old, I
couldn't even pronounce the nameof the bacteria back then, my
doctor would tell me and I'd belike, wow, this is a mouthful, I
(01:49):
cannot even say that name. Andjust so fascinating on how
something that you cannot seewith the naked eye can make you
so sick. And so when I startedfood science technology, one of
the areas that I could do aninternship was food
microbiology, and I loved myprofessor, I loved the classes,
you know, food micro 101, Iapproached him and said, hey,
can I, you know, intern in yourlab and just learn more about
(02:11):
this and see if I like it? Andthat's how it all started. And I
did an internship work with himwith bacteria. And then I had
the opportunity to come to theUS to do a Science Without
Borders program that theBrazilian government had at the
time. And I did one year ofinternship at Kansas State
University with Dr. RandallPhebus, working in his lab, and
he really guided me on more theadvanced technologies on food
(02:34):
safety and equipment that wedidn't have access back home. So
then I was able to be exposedfor one year in his lab and
learn a lot of different things.
So I went back to Brazil tograduate with my undergraduate
degree. And he had recently gota USDA grant to work on Shiga
toxin-producing E. coli, thesame bacteria that nearly killed
me. And he emailed me saying,hey, I have this grant, would
(02:56):
you like to come and do yourMaster's with me? And I'm like,
wow, yeah, of course. I was, youknow, I was super excited. So I
came back to the US and then didmy Master's with him
investigating E. coli. It wasnot intentional, you know,
because I had the infection whenI was 12. And here I am working
with this bacteria, identifyinginterventions for the beef
industry. It kind of came fullcircle, not intentionally, but I
(03:18):
think I can tell my story andtell people how and why food
safety is so important, becauseI'm a living example of
something that really went wrongwhen I ate a burger back then
when I was a kid, and it reallyaffected me for my whole life.
We always in food safety, talkabout short term disease, which
is you have your diarrhea,vomiting, headache, maybe low
(03:40):
grade fever, things like that.
And then you have long termdisease or chronic disease that
you can develop that we haveseen research on. And one of the
examples is irritable bowelsyndrome, and within that
category have Crohn's disease aswell. So then you fast forward,
I'm about 28 years old, and Istart getting really sick again,
(04:00):
and the doctor has diagnosed mehere in the US with Crohn's
disease. And even though wecannot exactly pinpoint that
specific event, because it wasso intense, and I had toxin
formation in my intestine, andmy kidneys were shutting down,
it was such an intense event,and it changed my gut
microbiome. Now I have a chronicdisease that I develop later on.
And so the doctors think thathad an effect on it. But of
(04:22):
course, we cannot say 100% thatthat's the only thing that
causes it, but a contributingfactor potentially on top of
having the genetics for it andsome environmental stressors. I
like to give this examplebecause we talk about short term
illness, the immediate symptomsthat you can see and then long
term disease is hard to trackbut people sometimes forget and
don't see it and now you have achronic disease that potentially
(04:44):
came from a foodborne illnessthat was preventable, and now
you have this disease for therest of your life. Crohn's
disease specifically is anautoimmune disease that there is
no cure for it. So being oninfusions and doctor's
appointments, and you know, thecost of that associated with a
foodborne illness too, is sohigh There's just so many facets
to it. So I always like to givethis example and share with
people because it's real. And itcan happen to anyone. And
(05:07):
probably everybody has alreadyhad experience a foodborne
illness, but just didn'trealize, but it's preventable.
So that's the great thing. It'spreventable. We can work
together to prevent things likethat.
Jordan Powers (05:18):
I think it's probably easy for a lot of
people who have maybeexperienced that short term
illness, right, those couple ofhours to a couple days where
you're regretting somedecisions, but then you get past
it, and you don't think about itagain. And for a lot of people,
I think that's the way that itgoes. So it's really fascinating
to hear you talk about that longterm repercussion that might not
even happen for, you know, yourcase another more than a decade.
Carla Schwan (05:39):
More than a decade, yeah.
Jordan Powers (05:40):
But it's it's out there, and it's real. So that
makes me really excited to diveinto some of our topics today.
So turning to the, like Imentioned earlier, very quickly
approaching holidays, we do knowthat many people love to make
homemade gifts around theholidays, whether it's homemade
vanilla, infused oils, homemadecaramels, etc. What are some
considerations that gift giversshould have in mind, if they go
(06:02):
that route?
Carla Schwan (06:03):
I think the first thing I would say depending on
the recipe, if it's a recipethat could pose more risk, and
I'm referring to here, infusedoils, definitely find a
validated, tested recipe thatsomebody has validated in their
lab, because then you know thatthe procedures you're going to
follow are safe. And even thoughit's a higher risk product, you
can feel confident that you arefollowing the steps and you're
(06:25):
gifting someone with somethingthat is safe. So for example,
the concern with infused oils isthat you are creating an
anaerobic environment. Sothere's no oxygen because of the
oil and you are adding maybegarlic or herbs or different
things that are low acid,meaning there is not enough
natural acid in those foods thatcould prevent the growth of
bacteria. And in this case, weare talking specifically about
(06:48):
Clostridium botulinum, which isa bacteria that produces a toxin
that causes a disease calledbotulism. So botulism poisoning,
it can be a deadly disease. Andso we are mostly worried in the
case of infused oils withbotulism and how it could, if
the spore is present, germinatein the right conditions, and
then produce that toxin. So theinfused oil piece, people
sometimes assume that justbecause you're adding garlic, or
(07:11):
you're adding herbs, becauseit's oil, you can just leave it
out at room temperature and itwill be fine. So by doing that,
We'll link to that and theNewswire article in the show
without following a validatedtested recipe, you're really
creating a perfect storm ofconditions for that bacteria to
produce a toxin. So you have nooxygen, you have a low acid food
that you are adding into thatoil, and you're leaving it at
room temperature. So thoseconditions are perfect for
(07:33):
Clostridium botulinum togerminate. If the spore is
present to germinate and thenproduce that toxin. However,
there is a safe way of doingthat. So we have validated
recipes, we have research thatwas on to understand before you
even add the garlic or you addthe herbs that you should be
adding some acid and lettingthat acid infuse into the garlic
or into the herbs before you addthat into your oil. So we have a
(07:56):
publication on that and steps onhow you can do that safely. So
you can feel confident that ifyou want to do that, number one
it's going to be safe. And italso can stay on the counter and
is a piece of decoration, right,that people like to show and it
looks beautiful. So you want todisplay that. And there is a
safe way of doing this. So wehave an Extension publication
(08:16):
that we talk about that and thesteps on how much acid and what
is the thickness of the garlicand how many herbs you can put
and things like that.
notes so that our listeners cango that route if they'd like to
use an infused oils safely.
Emily Davenport (08:33):
Well, between the holidays and then right
after, the Super Bowl, for thosewho celebrate. We're definitely
in the season of largegatherings. So how can party
hosts or maybe people who areattending and bringing a dish
take steps to keep guests safe?
Carla Schwan (08:49):
There are several measures that we can take in
order to prevent foodborneillness and contamination. So
first, I would say when you arepreparing your dish at home
making sure the counters areclean, that you have cleaned
them and you will wash yourhands and you have a clean
surface to work with. And if youhave raw meats and raw
vegetables, separating them, sohaving separate cutting boards
(09:09):
or if you only have one cuttingboard, preparing the vegetable
first that is not going to becooked so there is no
intervention really to killanything if it was cross
contaminated with the meat. Soyou prepare your vegetable
first, washing really well yourcutting board and then you
prepare your meat that is rawand is going to be cooked so
there is an intervention stepthere to take care of any
bacteria if they were present.
So that's one thing. When youare cooking your meats, making
(09:31):
sure you're cooking it to thecorrect temperature internal
temperature using a foodthermometer, storing the foods
in the refrigerator and makingsure they are below 40
Fahrenheit and when you'retransporting your food to the
party that you're going toutilizing containers that will
keep your food either cold orhot. So if your food is cold,
you can use ice packs to makesure that it's padded around the
(09:53):
food and then transporting it tothe place that you're serving
it, making sure that when youarrive to the party and you're
serving food or if you'rehosting the party, you're
serving food and you keep hotfoods hot and cold foods cold.
So for hot foods, you want tokeep it above 140 Fahrenheit.
And for cold foods, you want tokeep it below 40 Fahrenheit.
Also being aware and making surethat your guests are aware if
(10:15):
you have any allergens. So rightnow, FDA declares nine big
allergens, so we call the bignine. And obviously, that's for
regulation purposes. Being inyour house, you're not being
regulated by the FDA. So youdon't necessarily have to do all
the guidelines that they offer.
But I highly encourage that ifyou have allergens that you make
(10:36):
sure you tell people what disheshave what allergens, because the
last thing you want is somebodywith an allergy coming in and
eating a food and then having ananaphylactic reaction to it.
That will ruin your party andmaybe their friend will never
come over again, because
Everyone (10:50):
[laughter]
Jordan Powers (10:50):
There's a risk.
Carla Schwan (10:51):
There is a risk.
So labeling your allergens.
Sometimes also when you'reserving and there's a big
gathering of people, usingsingle use items. So people are
not mixing maybe the spoons theyare using in different dishes
and cross contaminating thatway. Also, hand washing, maybe
before you start a party, youcan encourage the guests to hand
(11:12):
washing and having stationsavailable. So bathrooms or in
the kitchen and having soap andpaper towels available for the
guests who wash their hands andhand sanitizers as well
throughout the space. Those aresome tips when you are preparing
or bringing food or servingfood. But also when the party is
wrapping up and you haveleftovers. Of course, you don't
want to waste food. So makingsure that you kind of keep a
(11:34):
timeline on when that food wasput out. So usually, we
recommend that if the food hasbeen left out for two hours or
more, you should throw it away.
But if the temperature forexample, in the summertime is
above 90 Fahrenheit, then onlyone hour because bacteria
multiply really fast when it's alittle bit more warm and cozy
for them to multiply. So that'sthe general recommendation for
storage. And then let's say nextday, or in the next two days,
(11:56):
you want to reheat that food andyou want to eat that food that
was leftover from the party,making sure that you are
reheating it to a safetemperature and using a
thermometer to make sure thatthe internal temperature of that
food has reached at least 165Fahrenheit. And that should be
good. Something else that I alsolike to mention is sometimes we
have recalls. So if there's acontamination, USDA or FDA, or
(12:18):
even a voluntary recall from thecompany, they will recall
recalling your product due tocontamination of X, Y, or Z. So
being aware that foods thatmaybe you have at home, stored
at home, or that you might haveserved were recalled so you can
let your guests know or even inthe front end, if you know that
something that you have in yourpantry has been recalled, you
(12:39):
can avoid serving that. Andthere is a great app that USDA
has, it's called Food Keeperthat you can get alerts and
follow recalls in differentitems. So it's not only USDA
regulated food products, butalso FDA. So it's a really great
resource that people can haveand check periodically or even
set up alerts to receiveinformation.
Jordan Powers (12:59):
Yeah, that's fantastic. We will link to that
in the show notes.
Emily Davenport (13:02):
Definitely. So.
Jordan Powers (13:03):
I didn't know that existed.
Emily Davenport (13:04):
I know, I love that they've made that
accessible to people.
Carla Schwan (13:07):
Yeah, and it's free. Yeah.
Emily Davenport (13:08):
That's great.
And I appreciate all the greattips that you shared. And if our
listeners want to know moreabout food safety and keeping
their guests safe, we will linkto another episode that we did
about food science and safetywith Manpreet Singh who's
department head of Food Scienceand Technology.
Jordan Powers (13:25):
Those are some really incredible tips to keep
guests safe. Like we talkedabout earlier, it's really easy
to forget the basics or to rushthrough the basics. I know that
in my family we've been guiltyof going oops, we forgot to thaw
XYZ in time and then we'redebating do we take the easy
route of just leaving it on thecounter while we go run errands
and come back or do we do it theright way and maybe postpone
(13:47):
that meal another day or coldwater thaw which we've learned
about. I know that I have gottena little stricter in my
household about how we do thesethings after talking to people
like Manpreet and yourself andreading all of this research.
One I will admit that I'm stillguilty of a little bit, Emily
and I are both very avid bakersand we know that eating raw
(14:08):
cookie dough is supposed to be ano-no. I say "supposed to"
because I'm still learning. It'scommonly thought that the issue
is eggs, raw egg, but we knowthat there's another culprit and
it's the flour. Can you give usthe scoop on why we should avoid
eating raw flour before it'sbeen baked?
Carla Schwan (14:24):
Yes. And I love that you said raw flour and the
key word here is raw. Because atthe store there's two different
types of flowers you can buy.
You can buy just regular generalflour that is not heat treated,
but there's also heat treatedflour that you can use for raw
cookie dough and so there is asafe way of making raw cookie
dough, so using heat treatedflour and using pasteurized eggs
because, as you said, salmonellain eggs. It goes back to when
(14:47):
the food industry is developinga process or looking at the food
safety plan that they have for aspecific product. They think
about what is the intended useof that product, right? And so
in this specific case, flour isnot intended to be eaten raw
generally. So the food safetyplan is matching that intended
to use piece that we have whenwe do a risk analysis or develop
(15:08):
a food safety plan. And sobecause flour is not to be
intended to be eaten raw, thereis less precautions taken at the
industry side of things. And sowhen people are consuming it at
home, you're going to have anintervention step you're going
to bake it or you're going tocook it or you're going to make
a dish that there's going to becooked and so you recover from
(15:28):
that side. But then if you'reusing general flour that the
intention is not to be eatenraw, and you're eating it raw,
you're misusing it for thepurpose that it's serving,
right? And that's kind of wherethe problem comes in. There is
heat treated flour at thegrocery store. But you can also
do that at home. We have someguidelines that we offer. And
through research again, we areable to determine how much time
(15:51):
and what is the thickness youshould spread that flour in a
baking sheet and for how manyminutes you should bake that at
what temperature. And we havealso publication on that, that
explains step by step how youcan heat treat flour at home.
You can make safe raw cookiedough and you can confidently
eat it. Something else that wesometimes forget that we use
(16:11):
flour for is where, when kidsare making crafts. And they're
making play dough at home withraw flour. And so that's
something else that when you'rehandling that raw flour with
kids especially, which is apopulation that is mostly
susceptible to foodborne illnessdue to their immune system being
still formed. Also want to makesure that if you're using flour
for crafts at home with kids orwith anyone you heat treat that
(16:34):
flour before you use it. Therecommendation for heat treating
flour at home is that you'regoing to preheat your oven to
400 Fahrenheit. And then you'regoing to spread about 3/4 inches
deep or less in a baking sheetof flour. And you're going to
bake it for five minutes. But wehave specific steps and you
don't have to memorize this forme see there right now. You can
(16:54):
look that publication up and doit yourself at home,
Jordan Powers (16:59):
We will absolutely link to that in the
show notes. And what an easy wayso I can get out of my shame of
nibbling raw cookie doughoccasionally, keep myself safe.
I mean, those are those arethose moments. I'm like, I grew
up with homemade playdough. I'vegrown up eating raw cookie
dough. And I've gotten, knock onwood, very lucky. But there's an
easy fix here if people take thetime to access all of these
(17:20):
amazing resources out there todo the things that we want to
do, but do them in a safermanner, so.
Carla Schwan (17:25):
Yeah, and it's flour, you think about it,
there's no really moisture. Sothe water activity of that
product is super, super low. Andrecently we have been learning
different pathogens can survive.
They don't necessarily grow inflour, but they can survive and
just hang it there. And thenonce you add water and you add
eggs and you add whatever theother ingredients are, now
(17:45):
you're making a really goodparty for that bacteria that is
just hanging in there. Now youhave water, you have nutrients
and then it's able to grow andmultiply. And so that's when the
problem becomes real.
Emily Davenport (17:58):
I didn't think about that. But that's what
microorganisms are good at doingis surviving for a long time if
they have to.
Jordan Powers (18:04):
They're just lingering in waiting.
Everyone (18:06):
[laughter]
Carla Schwan (18:07):
Yeah.
Jordan Powers (18:08):
Eugh.
Emily Davenport (18:11):
Now you can get yourself some pasteurized eggs,
Jordan, make a whole bowl of rawcookie dough if you want to.
Carla Schwan (18:16):
Exactly. This is a game changer, Carla.
Guilt free.
Jordan Powers (18:20):
I even have a tofu cookie dough recipe. I can
skip the eggs entirely.
Carla Schwan (18:25):
Oh wow.
Jordan Powers (18:25):
And now do it with safe flour and be
completely set to go.
Carla Schwan (18:28):
You might have to share that recipe with us.
Jordan Powers (18:30):
There we go. I will. It's a good one.
Emily Davenport (18:33):
All right.
Well, another thing that peopleare probably doing a lot of
right now is putting up foodfrom their gardens because it's
fall and everybody's reaping thespoils of their gardens if
they're so lucky. My garden wasnot that lucky, but.
Jordan Powers (18:47):
Maybe for some other people.
Emily Davenport (18:49):
So how do people make sure they stay safe
when preserving homegrown goods?
Carla Schwan (18:53):
Yeah, that's a great question. And I think
something that I like to startoff by saying that quality in is
quality out. So people thinkthat, oh I want to, you know my
tomatoes are going bad. I'mgoing to just harvest them
really quick and I'm going tocan them and they're going to be
good. And yeah, if you follow avalidated recipe in the steps,
they're probably going to befine but there is no magic
(19:13):
happening when you arepreserving that food when you
are, for example in thisinstance, canning so make sure
that you always start with goodquality produce. Even the
slightest indication of moldgrowing in that tomato or in you
know, whatever fruit you'reusing or vegetable, you should
discard that and avoid usingthat for for canning because
quality in is quality out andprobably a little bit even less
(19:36):
quality out because you'reapplying heat and you're
applying treatment to that food.
So it's going to be safe, butthe color might have changed,the
texture might have changed. Sothat's the first thing that I
talk about, using good qualityproduce when you are preserving.
Specifically for canning, usinga validated recipe. There is
other food preservation methodsthat we also have guidelines and
validated recipes, but for thesake of time today, focusing on
(19:58):
canning because I think throughthe National Center of Home Food
Preservation right now, the highvolume of questions that we are
getting is canning tomatoes. AndI think tomatoes are wrapping up
and everybody wants to quicklyextend their shelf life by
canning. And so I'm going to befocusing on that for the
episode, but making sure thatyou have a validated, tested
recipe. And I cannot emphasizethat enough. And sometimes when
(20:19):
people think about, oh, it'sjust a recipe, what could be
that is so fancy about therecipe? And the research and the
time, the equipment, theexpertise that goes behind
developing a recipe in the lab,it's immense. There's just a lot
that goes behind the recipe. Andso sometimes you see recipes on
different social media, and theylook great, and the photos are
beautiful. And when you startmaking it, then people call me
(20:42):
and they say, well, I found thisrecipe. I don't know, I have a
weird feeling. Do you think it'ssafe? Can I still eat it? Well,
unfortunately, after the fact, Icannot really tell you because
just by looking at a recipe,there is no way I can tell that
recipe is safe. So there areseveral things that we measure
in the lab to make sure that thesteps that we give the consumer
are steps that you're going tofollow and are going to be safe.
And specifically for canning,again, it goes back to the
(21:05):
infused oils, the same concept.
For canning, the high risk, thebacteria that we are mostly
worried about is Clostridiumbotulinum, again, botulism. And
so for canning, what you'rereally doing, you are preserving
that produce, your, let's saytomatoes, you're putting that
tomato in your jar, and you dideither a raw pack or a hot pack.
And now you're, you know, youclose your jar and you are
(21:28):
processing that depending on therecipe, let's say you had a
recipe that called for citricacid or lemon juice or vinegar,
whatever the recipe calls for,and it allows you to process
that tomato using a boilingwater canner. So once you do
that, basically what happens theair that is inside the jar is
driven out because of the heatand then that air is driven out,
(21:50):
you have the lid on, and oncethat jar is cooling during the
cooling process, that vacuumseal is formed preventing air
from coming from the outsidecoming in, recontaminating your
food, and also from your fooddrying out because then the air
is out right. And so if you dothat, when you're canning and
you don't follow a validatedrecipe, you could be creating a
(22:10):
scenario where Clostridiumbotulinum would be just happy to
come out of the spore. I like tocompare it with a seed. So it's
like a seed that is just there.
It's not doing anything. It'snot harmful by itself, but at
the right conditions it's goingto germinate. In this case for
canning, the right conditionsare no oxygen, ambient
temperature, so roomtemperature, and not enough
acid. So most vegetables, somefruits, meats, seafood, they
(22:33):
don't have enough natural acidpresent on them. So either the
recipe is going to call for acidas I mentioned earlier, lemon
juice, vinegar, citric acid aresome of the common ones we use.
It's going to call for that andyou're going to acidify that
food, or it's not going to callfor acid but you're going to
process that jar in a pressurecanner because the pressure
canner is going to be able todrive that temperature really,
(22:55):
really high, up to 250Fahrenheit and be able to
destroy that spore. So we arenot able to destroy the spore if
present at boiling watertemperatures and that's why we
have recipes and methodologiesthat either call for boiling
water canner when that food isnaturally acidic or has been
acidified because then we arecontrolling that pH to a lower
(23:15):
level that we are not worriedabout Clostridium botulinum
anymore, we are worried aboutother things, potentially
salmonella, E. coli, spoilageorganisms, too, that could spoil
and ferment your food. So that'sone of the methodologies we use
for canning. And then on thepressure side of canning. So
pressure canning, we have lowacid foods and we want to extend
the shelf life but also want tomake sure it's safe. By using a
(23:36):
pressure canner, you are able toraise that temperature that you
are able without pressure to240, 250 Fahrenheit. And so a
lot of people think that thepressure is what kills the spore
and destroys the spore, and it'sreally not. The pressure is just
helping the temperature rise to240, 250 Fahrenheit, and then
it's the temperature that isdestroying that spore because
(23:57):
the sport is really heatresistant. So you really need to
make sure that one, you havegood quality produce. You have
validated recipes, you know whatmethodology you're using. For
specifically canning you couldbe using boiling water canning,
you could be using steamcanning, or you could be using
pressure canning. So those arethe three approved methods that
we have research basedinformation on that we recommend
through the National Center.
Jordan Powers (24:20):
And we have even more resources through that
Extension publication that youmentioned and through a Newswire
story we did on canningprecautions that we will
absolutely link in the shownotes because we have seen even
just a spike in press aroundcanning. I think it was
partially COVID that people kindof were at home and diving back
into the sourdough breads andthe canning and the different
preservation techniques, whichis wonderful. I mean, I have so
(24:42):
many memories as a kid, my momwas huge into food preservation,
and I still have memories offalling asleep to the cans
popping
Everyone (24:48):
[laughter]
Jordan Powers (24:48):
as they were vacuum sealing. So it's a super
fond memory for me, but makingsure we're doing that safely and
using the resources that are outthere.
Carla Schwan (24:55):
Definitely, yeah, and our website has many
resources and recipes for free,so there is no need for you to
find recipes out of social mediathat we are not sure have been
validated or tested and just putyour family and yourself at risk
for something that is such apreventable thing, right?
Because we have the recipesavailable and they are free
access. They're on the website,we also have a book too, that we
(25:18):
offer through Extension.
Jordan Powers (25:19):
Absolutely. And we will link all of that in the
show notes. So it is right atthe fingertips. I think this
might be one of the most highlyresourced episodes we've done of
just all of these tools. I havea million more questions, so I
could go on for hours here.
Emily Davenport (25:33):
Yup, me, too.
Jordan Powers (25:33):
But in the interest of time, what have we
Carla Schwan (25:36):
So I would say that for you that are listening,
missed, Carla?
don't forget your localExtension office and the local
experts that you have in yourcommunity, so your Extension
agents, and we have Family andConsumer Science agents, we also
have ag agents that areavailable to help you. So if you
have questions, you're not surewhere to find resources, or you
need a recommendation onsomething that you did at home,
(25:57):
especially consumer food safety,reach out your local Extension
office to those experts, andthey're going to be able to help
you and guide you in the rightdirection. So it's easy to go to
the internet right away. And ofcourse, we have our websites
through UGA Extension, but alsogiving them a call or just going
to your local extension officeto connect with the person and
ask for help is a good reminder,and we are here to help we are
(26:20):
here to serve. We are happy toconnect with you. So don't feel
shy. We welcome questions, andwe welcome the concerns and
needs that you have. And we doour best to help you.
Jordan Powers (26:29):
That's such an important reminder, because now
that I'm in this job, I knowthat these things, but I will
admit until I started in thisrole, the amount of times I
would do research and whether itwas when I was in Iowa and it
was Iowa State Extension or evenin first moving to Georgia and
UGA Extension, you don't realizehow much those resources are,
one, popping up in your Googlesearches, which is fantastic.
(26:51):
But also that you can go talk toyour local Extension agent and,
I sound like a broken record,but we have a great tool on the
UGA Extension site to just go toyour county and it pops up who
your local agents are. So wewill absolutely link that in the
show notes in case our listenersdon't know who their local
Extension agent is.
Carla Schwan (27:06):
Exactly. And also some classes that we offer. So,
home food preservation classesor classes for retail food
safety for restaurants andthings like that. It's on the
calendar so you can easily seethe nearest class to you and you
can sign up and, you know, bepart of that as well. So great
resources out there.
Jordan Powers (27:22):
Well, Carla, we have covered a lot in a short
period of time. I know I havesome new tools in my toolbox to
keep myself and my family saferthis holiday season and beyond.
So we are incredibly gratefulfor your time today.
Carla Schwan (27:36):
Thank you both so much. I just enjoyed this
conversation and connecting withyou both. Thank you for the
opportunity and for allowing meto come to your studio and
record this.
Emily Davenport (27:44):
Thank you so much. We had fun.
Sound Effect (27:45):
[music]
Emily Davenport (27:46):
Thanks for listening to Cultivating
Curiosity, a podcast produced bythe UGA College of Agricultural
and Environmental Sciences. Aspecial thanks to Mason
McClintock for our music andsound effects. Find more
episodes wherever you get yourpodcasts.
[music]
Emily Davenport (00:01):
Welcome to Cultivating Curiosity, where we
get down and dirty with theexperts on all the ways science
and agriculture touch our lives,from what we eat to how we live.
I'm Emily Davenport.
Jordan Powers (00:13):
And I'm Jordan Powers. And we're from the
University of Georgia's Collegeof Agricultural and
Environmental Sciences.
Sound Effect (00:19):
[chime]
Jordan Powers (00:21):
We are here with Carla Schwan, assistant
professor and Extension foodsafety specialist. Carla, thank
you so much for joining ustoday.
Carla Schwan (00:28):
Good morning.
Thank you for having me. Iappreciate the opportunity to
connect.
Jordan Powers (00:32):
Absolutely. We are really excited for this
episode, especially ahead of thevery quickly approaching holiday
season.
Emily Davenport (00:39):
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Powers (00:39):
Before we dive into some of the holiday related
food safety questions. Tell us alittle bit about your background
and how you got started in foodsafety.
Carla Schwan (00:46):
I majored in food science and technology. So I'm
originally from Brazil, andmajored in food science and
technology. And during myundergrad, I wanted to do an
internship to learn more whicharea I wanted to go, and food
microbiology, especiallybacteria, always fascinated me.
So goes back to when I was alittle kid and I had an
infection with E. Coli. And Igot really, really sick was in
(01:07):
the hospital for a month. And itturned out I had Shiga
toxin-producing E. coli, whichis a strain of bacteria that
produces toxin in yourintestines, and it can lead to
severe consequences. One of themshutting down your kidneys, so I
was on dialysis, and doctorsdidn't think it was going to
make it. And usually when youhave this type of bacteria, they
do not give you antibiotics,because if the bacteria is
(01:27):
resistant, then likely you'regoing to die from it. But in
last resort, they give you theantibiotic because that's the
last thing they can do. So theygave gave me the antibiotics.
And here I am. So the bacteriathankfully was not resistant,
and I made it. And since then Iwas about 12 years old, I
couldn't even pronounce the nameof the bacteria back then, my
doctor would tell me and I'd belike, wow, this is a mouthful, I
(01:49):
cannot even say that name. Andjust so fascinating on how
something that you cannot seewith the naked eye can make you
so sick. And so when I startedfood science technology, one of
the areas that I could do aninternship was food
microbiology, and I loved myprofessor, I loved the classes,
you know, food micro 101, Iapproached him and said, hey,
can I, you know, intern in yourlab and just learn more about
(02:11):
this and see if I like it? Andthat's how it all started. And I
did an internship work with himwith bacteria. And then I had
the opportunity to come to theUS to do a Science Without
Borders program that theBrazilian government had at the
time. And I did one year ofinternship at Kansas State
University with Dr. RandallPhebus, working in his lab, and
he really guided me on more theadvanced technologies on food
(02:34):
safety and equipment that wedidn't have access back home. So
then I was able to be exposedfor one year in his lab and
learn a lot of different things.
So I went back to Brazil tograduate with my undergraduate
degree. And he had recently gota USDA grant to work on Shiga
toxin-producing E. coli, thesame bacteria that nearly killed
me. And he emailed me saying,hey, I have this grant, would
(02:56):
you like to come and do yourMaster's with me? And I'm like,
wow, yeah, of course. I was, youknow, I was super excited. So I
came back to the US and then didmy Master's with him
investigating E. coli. It wasnot intentional, you know,
because I had the infection whenI was 12. And here I am working
with this bacteria, identifyinginterventions for the beef
industry. It kind of came fullcircle, not intentionally, but I
(03:18):
think I can tell my story andtell people how and why food
safety is so important, becauseI'm a living example of
something that really went wrongwhen I ate a burger back then
when I was a kid, and it reallyaffected me for my whole life.
We always in food safety, talkabout short term disease, which
is you have your diarrhea,vomiting, headache, maybe low
(03:40):
grade fever, things like that.
And then you have long termdisease or chronic disease that
you can develop that we haveseen research on. And one of the
examples is irritable bowelsyndrome, and within that
category have Crohn's disease aswell. So then you fast forward,
I'm about 28 years old, and Istart getting really sick again,
(04:00):
and the doctor has diagnosed mehere in the US with Crohn's
disease. And even though wecannot exactly pinpoint that
specific event, because it wasso intense, and I had toxin
formation in my intestine, andmy kidneys were shutting down,
it was such an intense event,and it changed my gut
microbiome. Now I have a chronicdisease that I develop later on.
And so the doctors think thathad an effect on it. But of
(04:22):
course, we cannot say 100% thatthat's the only thing that
causes it, but a contributingfactor potentially on top of
having the genetics for it andsome environmental stressors. I
like to give this examplebecause we talk about short term
illness, the immediate symptomsthat you can see and then long
term disease is hard to trackbut people sometimes forget and
don't see it and now you have achronic disease that potentially
(04:44):
came from a foodborne illnessthat was preventable, and now
you have this disease for therest of your life. Crohn's
disease specifically is anautoimmune disease that there is
no cure for it. So being oninfusions and doctor's
appointments, and you know, thecost of that associated with a
foodborne illness too, is sohigh There's just so many facets
to it. So I always like to givethis example and share with
people because it's real. And itcan happen to anyone. And
(05:07):
probably everybody has alreadyhad experience a foodborne
illness, but just didn'trealize, but it's preventable.
So that's the great thing. It'spreventable. We can work
together to prevent things likethat.
Jordan Powers (05:18):
I think it's probably easy for a lot of
people who have maybeexperienced that short term
illness, right, those couple ofhours to a couple days where
you're regretting somedecisions, but then you get past
it, and you don't think about itagain. And for a lot of people,
I think that's the way that itgoes. So it's really fascinating
to hear you talk about that longterm repercussion that might not
even happen for, you know, yourcase another more than a decade.
Carla Schwan (05:39):
More than a decade, yeah.
Jordan Powers (05:40):
But it's it's out there, and it's real. So that
makes me really excited to diveinto some of our topics today.
So turning to the, like Imentioned earlier, very quickly
approaching holidays, we do knowthat many people love to make
homemade gifts around theholidays, whether it's homemade
vanilla, infused oils, homemadecaramels, etc. What are some
considerations that gift giversshould have in mind, if they go
(06:02):
that route?
Carla Schwan (06:03):
I think the first thing I would say depending on
the recipe, if it's a recipethat could pose more risk, and
I'm referring to here, infusedoils, definitely find a
validated, tested recipe thatsomebody has validated in their
lab, because then you know thatthe procedures you're going to
follow are safe. And even thoughit's a higher risk product, you
can feel confident that you arefollowing the steps and you're
(06:25):
gifting someone with somethingthat is safe. So for example,
the concern with infused oils isthat you are creating an
anaerobic environment. Sothere's no oxygen because of the
oil and you are adding maybegarlic or herbs or different
things that are low acid,meaning there is not enough
natural acid in those foods thatcould prevent the growth of
bacteria. And in this case, weare talking specifically about
(06:48):
Clostridium botulinum, which isa bacteria that produces a toxin
that causes a disease calledbotulism. So botulism poisoning,
it can be a deadly disease. Andso we are mostly worried in the
case of infused oils withbotulism and how it could, if
the spore is present, germinatein the right conditions, and
then produce that toxin. So theinfused oil piece, people
sometimes assume that justbecause you're adding garlic, or
(07:11):
you're adding herbs, becauseit's oil, you can just leave it
out at room temperature and itwill be fine. So by doing that,
We'll link to that and theNewswire article in the show
without following a validatedtested recipe, you're really
creating a perfect storm ofconditions for that bacteria to
produce a toxin. So you have nooxygen, you have a low acid food
that you are adding into thatoil, and you're leaving it at
room temperature. So thoseconditions are perfect for
(07:33):
Clostridium botulinum togerminate. If the spore is
present to germinate and thenproduce that toxin. However,
there is a safe way of doingthat. So we have validated
recipes, we have research thatwas on to understand before you
even add the garlic or you addthe herbs that you should be
adding some acid and lettingthat acid infuse into the garlic
or into the herbs before you addthat into your oil. So we have a
(07:56):
publication on that and steps onhow you can do that safely. So
you can feel confident that ifyou want to do that, number one
it's going to be safe. And italso can stay on the counter and
is a piece of decoration, right,that people like to show and it
looks beautiful. So you want todisplay that. And there is a
safe way of doing this. So wehave an Extension publication
(08:16):
that we talk about that and thesteps on how much acid and what
is the thickness of the garlicand how many herbs you can put
and things like that.
notes so that our listeners cango that route if they'd like to
use an infused oils safely.
Emily Davenport (08:33):
Well, between the holidays and then right
after, the Super Bowl, for thosewho celebrate. We're definitely
in the season of largegatherings. So how can party
hosts or maybe people who areattending and bringing a dish
take steps to keep guests safe?
Carla Schwan (08:49):
There are several measures that we can take in
order to prevent foodborneillness and contamination. So
first, I would say when you arepreparing your dish at home
making sure the counters areclean, that you have cleaned
them and you will wash yourhands and you have a clean
surface to work with. And if youhave raw meats and raw
vegetables, separating them, sohaving separate cutting boards
(09:09):
or if you only have one cuttingboard, preparing the vegetable
first that is not going to becooked so there is no
intervention really to killanything if it was cross
contaminated with the meat. Soyou prepare your vegetable
first, washing really well yourcutting board and then you
prepare your meat that is rawand is going to be cooked so
there is an intervention stepthere to take care of any
bacteria if they were present.
So that's one thing. When youare cooking your meats, making
(09:31):
sure you're cooking it to thecorrect temperature internal
temperature using a foodthermometer, storing the foods
in the refrigerator and makingsure they are below 40
Fahrenheit and when you'retransporting your food to the
party that you're going toutilizing containers that will
keep your food either cold orhot. So if your food is cold,
you can use ice packs to makesure that it's padded around the
(09:53):
food and then transporting it tothe place that you're serving
it, making sure that when youarrive to the party and you're
serving food or if you'rehosting the party, you're
serving food and you keep hotfoods hot and cold foods cold.
So for hot foods, you want tokeep it above 140 Fahrenheit.
And for cold foods, you want tokeep it below 40 Fahrenheit.
Also being aware and making surethat your guests are aware if
(10:15):
you have any allergens. So rightnow, FDA declares nine big
allergens, so we call the bignine. And obviously, that's for
regulation purposes. Being inyour house, you're not being
regulated by the FDA. So youdon't necessarily have to do all
the guidelines that they offer.
But I highly encourage that ifyou have allergens that you make
(10:36):
sure you tell people what disheshave what allergens, because the
last thing you want is somebodywith an allergy coming in and
eating a food and then having ananaphylactic reaction to it.
That will ruin your party andmaybe their friend will never
come over again, because
Everyone (10:50):
[laughter]
Jordan Powers (10:50):
There's a risk.
Carla Schwan (10:51):
There is a risk.
So labeling your allergens.
Sometimes also when you'reserving and there's a big
gathering of people, usingsingle use items. So people are
not mixing maybe the spoons theyare using in different dishes
and cross contaminating thatway. Also, hand washing, maybe
before you start a party, youcan encourage the guests to hand
(11:12):
washing and having stationsavailable. So bathrooms or in
the kitchen and having soap andpaper towels available for the
guests who wash their hands andhand sanitizers as well
throughout the space. Those aresome tips when you are preparing
or bringing food or servingfood. But also when the party is
wrapping up and you haveleftovers. Of course, you don't
want to waste food. So makingsure that you kind of keep a
(11:34):
timeline on when that food wasput out. So usually, we
recommend that if the food hasbeen left out for two hours or
more, you should throw it away.
But if the temperature forexample, in the summertime is
above 90 Fahrenheit, then onlyone hour because bacteria
multiply really fast when it's alittle bit more warm and cozy
for them to multiply. So that'sthe general recommendation for
storage. And then let's say nextday, or in the next two days,
(11:56):
you want to reheat that food andyou want to eat that food that
was leftover from the party,making sure that you are
reheating it to a safetemperature and using a
thermometer to make sure thatthe internal temperature of that
food has reached at least 165Fahrenheit. And that should be
good. Something else that I alsolike to mention is sometimes we
have recalls. So if there's acontamination, USDA or FDA, or
(12:18):
even a voluntary recall from thecompany, they will recall
recalling your product due tocontamination of X, Y, or Z. So
being aware that foods thatmaybe you have at home, stored
at home, or that you might haveserved were recalled so you can
let your guests know or even inthe front end, if you know that
something that you have in yourpantry has been recalled, you
(12:39):
can avoid serving that. Andthere is a great app that USDA
has, it's called Food Keeperthat you can get alerts and
follow recalls in differentitems. So it's not only USDA
regulated food products, butalso FDA. So it's a really great
resource that people can haveand check periodically or even
set up alerts to receiveinformation.
Jordan Powers (12:59):
Yeah, that's fantastic. We will link to that
in the show notes.
Emily Davenport (13:02):
Definitely. So.
Jordan Powers (13:03):
I didn't know that existed.
Emily Davenport (13:04):
I know, I love that they've made that
accessible to people.
Carla Schwan (13:07):
Yeah, and it's free. Yeah.
Emily Davenport (13:08):
That's great.
And I appreciate all the greattips that you shared. And if our
listeners want to know moreabout food safety and keeping
their guests safe, we will linkto another episode that we did
about food science and safetywith Manpreet Singh who's
department head of Food Scienceand Technology.
Jordan Powers (13:25):
Those are some really incredible tips to keep
guests safe. Like we talkedabout earlier, it's really easy
to forget the basics or to rushthrough the basics. I know that
in my family we've been guiltyof going oops, we forgot to thaw
XYZ in time and then we'redebating do we take the easy
route of just leaving it on thecounter while we go run errands
and come back or do we do it theright way and maybe postpone
(13:47):
that meal another day or coldwater thaw which we've learned
about. I know that I have gottena little stricter in my
household about how we do thesethings after talking to people
like Manpreet and yourself andreading all of this research.
One I will admit that I'm stillguilty of a little bit, Emily
and I are both very avid bakersand we know that eating raw
(14:08):
cookie dough is supposed to be ano-no. I say "supposed to"
because I'm still learning. It'scommonly thought that the issue
is eggs, raw egg, but we knowthat there's another culprit and
it's the flour. Can you give usthe scoop on why we should avoid
eating raw flour before it'sbeen baked?
Carla Schwan (14:24):
Yes. And I love that you said raw flour and the
key word here is raw. Because atthe store there's two different
types of flowers you can buy.
You can buy just regular generalflour that is not heat treated,
but there's also heat treatedflour that you can use for raw
cookie dough and so there is asafe way of making raw cookie
dough, so using heat treatedflour and using pasteurized eggs
because, as you said, salmonellain eggs. It goes back to when
(14:47):
the food industry is developinga process or looking at the food
safety plan that they have for aspecific product. They think
about what is the intended useof that product, right? And so
in this specific case, flour isnot intended to be eaten raw
generally. So the food safetyplan is matching that intended
to use piece that we have whenwe do a risk analysis or develop
(15:08):
a food safety plan. And sobecause flour is not to be
intended to be eaten raw, thereis less precautions taken at the
industry side of things. And sowhen people are consuming it at
home, you're going to have anintervention step you're going
to bake it or you're going tocook it or you're going to make
a dish that there's going to becooked and so you recover from
(15:28):
that side. But then if you'reusing general flour that the
intention is not to be eatenraw, and you're eating it raw,
you're misusing it for thepurpose that it's serving,
right? And that's kind of wherethe problem comes in. There is
heat treated flour at thegrocery store. But you can also
do that at home. We have someguidelines that we offer. And
through research again, we areable to determine how much time
(15:51):
and what is the thickness youshould spread that flour in a
baking sheet and for how manyminutes you should bake that at
what temperature. And we havealso publication on that, that
explains step by step how youcan heat treat flour at home.
You can make safe raw cookiedough and you can confidently
eat it. Something else that wesometimes forget that we use
(16:11):
flour for is where, when kidsare making crafts. And they're
making play dough at home withraw flour. And so that's
something else that when you'rehandling that raw flour with
kids especially, which is apopulation that is mostly
susceptible to foodborne illnessdue to their immune system being
still formed. Also want to makesure that if you're using flour
for crafts at home with kids orwith anyone you heat treat that
(16:34):
flour before you use it. Therecommendation for heat treating
flour at home is that you'regoing to preheat your oven to
400 Fahrenheit. And then you'regoing to spread about 3/4 inches
deep or less in a baking sheetof flour. And you're going to
bake it for five minutes. But wehave specific steps and you
don't have to memorize this forme see there right now. You can
(16:54):
look that publication up and doit yourself at home,
Jordan Powers (16:59):
We will absolutely link to that in the
show notes. And what an easy wayso I can get out of my shame of
nibbling raw cookie doughoccasionally, keep myself safe.
I mean, those are those arethose moments. I'm like, I grew
up with homemade playdough. I'vegrown up eating raw cookie
dough. And I've gotten, knock onwood, very lucky. But there's an
easy fix here if people take thetime to access all of these
(17:20):
amazing resources out there todo the things that we want to
do, but do them in a safermanner, so.
Carla Schwan (17:25):
Yeah, and it's flour, you think about it,
there's no really moisture. Sothe water activity of that
product is super, super low. Andrecently we have been learning
different pathogens can survive.
They don't necessarily grow inflour, but they can survive and
just hang it there. And thenonce you add water and you add
eggs and you add whatever theother ingredients are, now
(17:45):
you're making a really goodparty for that bacteria that is
just hanging in there. Now youhave water, you have nutrients
and then it's able to grow andmultiply. And so that's when the
problem becomes real.
Emily Davenport (17:58):
I didn't think about that. But that's what
microorganisms are good at doingis surviving for a long time if
they have to.
Jordan Powers (18:04):
They're just lingering in waiting.
Everyone (18:06):
[laughter]
Carla Schwan (18:07):
Yeah.
Jordan Powers (18:08):
Eugh.
Emily Davenport (18:11):
Now you can get yourself some pasteurized eggs,
Jordan, make a whole bowl of rawcookie dough if you want to.
Carla Schwan (18:16):
Exactly. This is a game changer, Carla.
Guilt free.
Jordan Powers (18:20):
I even have a tofu cookie dough recipe. I can
skip the eggs entirely.
Carla Schwan (18:25):
Oh wow.
Jordan Powers (18:25):
And now do it with safe flour and be
completely set to go.
Carla Schwan (18:28):
You might have to share that recipe with us.
Jordan Powers (18:30):
There we go. I will. It's a good one.
Emily Davenport (18:33):
All right.
Well, another thing that peopleare probably doing a lot of
right now is putting up foodfrom their gardens because it's
fall and everybody's reaping thespoils of their gardens if
they're so lucky. My garden wasnot that lucky, but.
Jordan Powers (18:47):
Maybe for some other people.
Emily Davenport (18:49):
So how do people make sure they stay safe
when preserving homegrown goods?
Carla Schwan (18:53):
Yeah, that's a great question. And I think
something that I like to startoff by saying that quality in is
quality out. So people thinkthat, oh I want to, you know my
tomatoes are going bad. I'mgoing to just harvest them
really quick and I'm going tocan them and they're going to be
good. And yeah, if you follow avalidated recipe in the steps,
they're probably going to befine but there is no magic
(19:13):
happening when you arepreserving that food when you
are, for example in thisinstance, canning so make sure
that you always start with goodquality produce. Even the
slightest indication of moldgrowing in that tomato or in you
know, whatever fruit you'reusing or vegetable, you should
discard that and avoid usingthat for for canning because
quality in is quality out andprobably a little bit even less
(19:36):
quality out because you'reapplying heat and you're
applying treatment to that food.
So it's going to be safe, butthe color might have changed,the
texture might have changed. Sothat's the first thing that I
talk about, using good qualityproduce when you are preserving.
Specifically for canning, usinga validated recipe. There is
other food preservation methodsthat we also have guidelines and
validated recipes, but for thesake of time today, focusing on
(19:58):
canning because I think throughthe National Center of Home Food
Preservation right now, the highvolume of questions that we are
getting is canning tomatoes. AndI think tomatoes are wrapping up
and everybody wants to quicklyextend their shelf life by
canning. And so I'm going to befocusing on that for the
episode, but making sure thatyou have a validated, tested
recipe. And I cannot emphasizethat enough. And sometimes when
(20:19):
people think about, oh, it'sjust a recipe, what could be
that is so fancy about therecipe? And the research and the
time, the equipment, theexpertise that goes behind
developing a recipe in the lab,it's immense. There's just a lot
that goes behind the recipe. Andso sometimes you see recipes on
different social media, and theylook great, and the photos are
beautiful. And when you startmaking it, then people call me
(20:42):
and they say, well, I found thisrecipe. I don't know, I have a
weird feeling. Do you think it'ssafe? Can I still eat it? Well,
unfortunately, after the fact, Icannot really tell you because
just by looking at a recipe,there is no way I can tell that
recipe is safe. So there areseveral things that we measure
in the lab to make sure that thesteps that we give the consumer
are steps that you're going tofollow and are going to be safe.
And specifically for canning,again, it goes back to the
(21:05):
infused oils, the same concept.
For canning, the high risk, thebacteria that we are mostly
worried about is Clostridiumbotulinum, again, botulism. And
so for canning, what you'rereally doing, you are preserving
that produce, your, let's saytomatoes, you're putting that
tomato in your jar, and you dideither a raw pack or a hot pack.
And now you're, you know, youclose your jar and you are
(21:28):
processing that depending on therecipe, let's say you had a
recipe that called for citricacid or lemon juice or vinegar,
whatever the recipe calls for,and it allows you to process
that tomato using a boilingwater canner. So once you do
that, basically what happens theair that is inside the jar is
driven out because of the heatand then that air is driven out,
(21:50):
you have the lid on, and oncethat jar is cooling during the
cooling process, that vacuumseal is formed preventing air
from coming from the outsidecoming in, recontaminating your
food, and also from your fooddrying out because then the air
is out right. And so if you dothat, when you're canning and
you don't follow a validatedrecipe, you could be creating a
(22:10):
scenario where Clostridiumbotulinum would be just happy to
come out of the spore. I like tocompare it with a seed. So it's
like a seed that is just there.
It's not doing anything. It'snot harmful by itself, but at
the right conditions it's goingto germinate. In this case for
canning, the right conditionsare no oxygen, ambient
temperature, so roomtemperature, and not enough
acid. So most vegetables, somefruits, meats, seafood, they
(22:33):
don't have enough natural acidpresent on them. So either the
recipe is going to call for acidas I mentioned earlier, lemon
juice, vinegar, citric acid aresome of the common ones we use.
It's going to call for that andyou're going to acidify that
food, or it's not going to callfor acid but you're going to
process that jar in a pressurecanner because the pressure
canner is going to be able todrive that temperature really,
(22:55):
really high, up to 250Fahrenheit and be able to
destroy that spore. So we arenot able to destroy the spore if
present at boiling watertemperatures and that's why we
have recipes and methodologiesthat either call for boiling
water canner when that food isnaturally acidic or has been
acidified because then we arecontrolling that pH to a lower
(23:15):
level that we are not worriedabout Clostridium botulinum
anymore, we are worried aboutother things, potentially
salmonella, E. coli, spoilageorganisms, too, that could spoil
and ferment your food. So that'sone of the methodologies we use
for canning. And then on thepressure side of canning. So
pressure canning, we have lowacid foods and we want to extend
the shelf life but also want tomake sure it's safe. By using a
(23:36):
pressure canner, you are able toraise that temperature that you
are able without pressure to240, 250 Fahrenheit. And so a
lot of people think that thepressure is what kills the spore
and destroys the spore, and it'sreally not. The pressure is just
helping the temperature rise to240, 250 Fahrenheit, and then
it's the temperature that isdestroying that spore because
(23:57):
the sport is really heatresistant. So you really need to
make sure that one, you havegood quality produce. You have
validated recipes, you know whatmethodology you're using. For
specifically canning you couldbe using boiling water canning,
you could be using steamcanning, or you could be using
pressure canning. So those arethe three approved methods that
we have research basedinformation on that we recommend
through the National Center.
Jordan Powers (24:20):
And we have even more resources through that
Extension publication that youmentioned and through a Newswire
story we did on canningprecautions that we will
absolutely link in the shownotes because we have seen even
just a spike in press aroundcanning. I think it was
partially COVID that people kindof were at home and diving back
into the sourdough breads andthe canning and the different
preservation techniques, whichis wonderful. I mean, I have so
(24:42):
many memories as a kid, my momwas huge into food preservation,
and I still have memories offalling asleep to the cans
popping
Everyone (24:48):
[laughter]
Jordan Powers (24:48):
as they were vacuum sealing. So it's a super
fond memory for me, but makingsure we're doing that safely and
using the resources that are outthere.
Carla Schwan (24:55):
Definitely, yeah, and our website has many
resources and recipes for free,so there is no need for you to
find recipes out of social mediathat we are not sure have been
validated or tested and just putyour family and yourself at risk
for something that is such apreventable thing, right?
Because we have the recipesavailable and they are free
access. They're on the website,we also have a book too, that we
(25:18):
offer through Extension.
Jordan Powers (25:19):
Absolutely. And we will link all of that in the
show notes. So it is right atthe fingertips. I think this
might be one of the most highlyresourced episodes we've done of
just all of these tools. I havea million more questions, so I
could go on for hours here.
Emily Davenport (25:33):
Yup, me, too.
Jordan Powers (25:33):
But in the interest of time, what have we
Carla Schwan (25:36):
So I would say that for you that are listening,
missed, Carla?
don't forget your localExtension office and the local
experts that you have in yourcommunity, so your Extension
agents, and we have Family andConsumer Science agents, we also
have ag agents that areavailable to help you. So if you
have questions, you're not surewhere to find resources, or you
need a recommendation onsomething that you did at home,
(25:57):
especially consumer food safety,reach out your local Extension
office to those experts, andthey're going to be able to help
you and guide you in the rightdirection. So it's easy to go to
the internet right away. And ofcourse, we have our websites
through UGA Extension, but alsogiving them a call or just going
to your local extension officeto connect with the person and
ask for help is a good reminder,and we are here to help we are
(26:20):
here to serve. We are happy toconnect with you. So don't feel
shy. We welcome questions, andwe welcome the concerns and
needs that you have. And we doour best to help you.
Jordan Powers (26:29):
That's such an important reminder, because now
that I'm in this job, I knowthat these things, but I will
admit until I started in thisrole, the amount of times I
would do research and whether itwas when I was in Iowa and it
was Iowa State Extension or evenin first moving to Georgia and
UGA Extension, you don't realizehow much those resources are,
one, popping up in your Googlesearches, which is fantastic.
(26:51):
But also that you can go talk toyour local Extension agent and,
I sound like a broken record,but we have a great tool on the
UGA Extension site to just go toyour county and it pops up who
your local agents are. So wewill absolutely link that in the
show notes in case our listenersdon't know who their local
Extension agent is.
Carla Schwan (27:06):
Exactly. And also some classes that we offer. So,
home food preservation classesor classes for retail food
safety for restaurants andthings like that. It's on the
calendar so you can easily seethe nearest class to you and you
can sign up and, you know, bepart of that as well. So great
resources out there.
Jordan Powers (27:22):
Well, Carla, we have covered a lot in a short
period of time. I know I havesome new tools in my toolbox to
keep myself and my family saferthis holiday season and beyond.
So we are incredibly gratefulfor your time today.
Carla Schwan (27:36):
Thank you both so much. I just enjoyed this
conversation and connecting withyou both. Thank you for the
opportunity and for allowing meto come to your studio and
record this.
Emily Davenport (27:44):
Thank you so much. We had fun.
Sound Effect (27:45):
[music]
Emily Davenport (27:46):
Thanks for listening to Cultivating
Curiosity, a podcast produced bythe UGA College of Agricultural
and Environmental Sciences. Aspecial thanks to Mason
McClintock for our music andsound effects. Find more
episodes wherever you get yourpodcasts.
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