April 2, 2025 • 26 mins
Feeling joy and choosing joy are two very different things. Let's talk about how we can choose joy each day and teach our children to do the same!
Hi, I’m Jenna, homesteading and homeschooling mom of 7 and the creator behind This Ohio Farmhouse. My sister, Johanna, is a licensed counselor and mom of twin teenage boys. Join us at the table as we tackle hard parenting topics and work towards healing and peace within the walls of our homes…where home is our mission field.
C u l t I v a t e [ kuhl-tuh-veyt ]
Verb
- to refine or improve
- to promote the growth or development of
- to take up for the purpose of self-improvement
Grab our workbooks here where we walk through healing from our past so we can be the wives and mothers that the Lord has called us to be!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is the Cultivating Hearts podcast.
Pull up a seat and join sistersJenna and Joanna as we
cultivate the hearts ofourselves and our children.
Hey sisters, welcome to theCultivating Hearts podcast.
Children hey sisters, welcometo the Cultivating Heart podcast
.
We're putting together ourthoughts on what it looks like
(00:32):
to choose joy and putting thaton every day, and then not only
for ourselves, but how to teachthat to your children.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
It sounds like an easy concept.
You know, just count it all.
Joy right, Be happy, just behappy.
It takes effort, it takes achoice to have joy.
It's not just something thatcomes upon us.
Of course we have thesetemporary moments where it's
very joyful you might be doingsomething fun and it's just not
(01:00):
lasting joy right.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, ironically though, this has been on our
calendar and our schedule herepodcast, I don't even know what
we're on 25 or something wherewe're talking about joy, and it
happens to fall once again whenour pastor is preaching on the
very topic for several weeks,and so we've been taking notes
(01:22):
and thinking through his partsand his things that he had to
say and our own, and justprocessing all of that.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, that verse has popped into my mind many times
over the years.
Count it all joy, have joy intrial.
And it irks me because italmost feels like my pain is
being minimized through thatverse.
It feels like, well, you'regoing through all this stuff,
(01:53):
but have joy.
I want you to focus on joy.
Scripture says and God is nottrying to minimize our pain and
our suffering, he's trying toget our focus in the right place
so that we can have joy.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, there's people, all throughout scripture though
, that you could think of, thatare in miserable circumstances,
but they're singing praises andthey're writing Psalms and it's
seemingly unreasonably joyfulfor their circumstances.
They should not be happyreasonably joyful for their
circumstances.
They should not be happy.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Right Paul in chains, in prison, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
talking to the church in Philippi, he says he has joy
when he's praying for them, butI think that, really, if you
were to study, that joy is fromwithin, and so what he's sharing
, though, is I know I'mconfident in who my savior is
and who God is, and so thattranslates into if it's bigger
and it's more powerful than whatmy circumstances are.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
James 1, 2 through 4 says consider it pure joy, my
brothers and sisters, wheneveryou face trials of many kinds,
because you know that thetesting of your faith produces
perseverance.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Don't you think, though, that there's a lot of
controversy on the topic?
There's a lot of people thatwould rather wallow in their
pain.
You've said that you'veactually asked somebody if they
wanted joy, if they wanted toget out of their misery.
They said no.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Well, how that went was I think I had been seeing
somebody for over a year and ahalf and the Lord put it on my
heart, asked them if they wantto be better.
And I'm arguing in my head withthe Lord they've been coming
for over a year and a half.
Why would I ask them?
This question that's ridiculousJust kept being prompted.
(03:42):
So I said do you want to bebetter?
And this person said no.
I really don't know who I wouldbe if I were better.
And at that point I thought whatdo I do with this?
So I said well, why don't wejust pause?
Let's, let's just pause.
You're welcome to come back.
(04:08):
What's the point of you beingthere?
Yeah, yeah.
And again, counseling can bethis place of just going over
and over and over something, andI think it's not necessarily
always helpful.
As I have mentioned, it ishelpful to have somebody to talk
to, to have wise counsel and tobounce some things off of.
At the same time, the goal,hopefully, is to move forward.
You know, I feel this way aboutmy chiropractor.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I don't want a chiropractor that wants to see
me every other day.
I want one that's going to fixme and I move on.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
It gets expensive if not you just keep going forever
um, and there is no specifictime frame.
Everybody is at a differentplace and Jesus 100% meets us
where we are, and some of usaren't ready for the next step,
and so there's just this fineline of having discernment of
where the Lord is leading all ofus.
(04:54):
When we are counseling somebodyor when we are meeting with a
friend, you know where, whereare they, at how long do they
need to be there?
And just to be able to discernwhat the Lord is doing in that
moment, because we can staythere too long, jump too fast
ahead too, so it's a matter ofjust listening.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
There's probably other reasons why people choose
to sit in that seat, though.
What are other reasons thatpeople have given you, why they
want to stay stagnant, you know?
Or still, or not joyful?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Well, we know it's much easier to be negative than
it is to be positive or notjoyful.
Well, we know it's much easierto be negative than it is to be
positive.
It takes effort.
We are born into a fallen,sinful world and so it's easy to
be negative.
I mean that just comesnaturally, yeah, isn't?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
it.
It doesn't come naturally formost people.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Maybe they have some extra happy chemicals in their
brain.
You wonder that with somepeople.
You think, you know, are thesepeople really this happy?
You know, are they really thisjoyful all the time?
Are they choosing joy?
I have thought, are they indenial?
You know, you hear peoplesometimes say well, I like to
stay busy because I don't wantto have to sit and think about
(05:57):
things.
And there's some truth to that.
I think the more time you haveon your hands sometimes you sit
around, you wallow, you feelmore sorry for yourself.
You need to get out and do somethings and I always, you know,
encourage people, includingmyself like have a moment where
you are dealing with youremotions.
God gave them to us for areason.
They are important.
Sometimes, you know, ourfeelings tell us we need to
change things, or look at somethings or hand some things over
(06:20):
to the Lord.
Have a time where you'rescheduling to have a pity party,
but then don't stay there andhand it over to the Lord.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, I think the bigger issue, though, is that
when we do that, it's becausewe're focused on ourselves, not
on filling ourselves so fullwith the Lord that we you know
we are focused in the wrongplace.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
It's a thief of joy yeah, we can become super
selfish and looking too inwardto everything, um, even looking
to ourselves forself-affirmations.
So I think sometimes we do lookso much inward.
We can become so analytical.
We can actually think ourselvesinto idol worship really.
(07:03):
We can actually think ourselvesinto idol worship really.
We think, think, think, think,think.
At the same time, the Lord wantsus to use our brain, you know,
and to go okay, what is thisreaction that I'm having?
Or this response I'm having?
What is this about Lord?
And then, you know, we go backand we ask God what is this
about?
And he will show us, hopefully,and we can move forward and
hand that over to him and choosejoy.
(07:25):
Some people want to, just, Ithink, feel safe.
They want other people toaffirm them, they want people to
be in their misery, with them,with them.
(07:49):
Some people are living in theirown perspective and their own
ideology.
That is not God's truth, and sothey want other people to join
them in that perspective so thatthey can feel good about
themselves.
And really our safety and ourjoy does not come from
circumstances or other peopleaffirming us.
It comes from God and who hesays we are.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah, we have to remember that choosing joy
doesn't look the same as feelingjoy.
You may not feel joyful, and westill have to choose it, and so
, when we're talking throughthis, all throughout scripture,
there's a lot of circumstanceswhere God talks about our
clothing and what we clotheourselves with, and probably the
(08:27):
most well-known is the armor ofGod, and we are supposed to
wake up every day and we'resupposed to put on our armor,
and you've got, you know, thebelt of truth and the helmet of
salvation.
You have all of these thingsthat he talks you through, as if
you're supposed to physicallychoose to put those things on
you each day.
All throughout scripture,though, there's circumstances
(08:48):
where clothing is very important.
You know, I think of the womanwho reached out her hand just to
touch Jesus.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
She was bleeding for 12 years, grabbed his cloak.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
You can actually go down a whole rabbit hole.
If you really wanted to studyall of the garments throughout
scripture, there's a lot.
We started looking them up, andI mean there's over and over
again talking about our filthyrags, our clothing being the
robe of righteousness.
Yeah, so you were choosing whatyou were going to wear each day
(09:19):
and you're standing in front ofyour closet and you're picking
out your outfit.
You're looking at what is aheadof me for my day.
What do I have?
Am I going to a wedding todayor am I going to work?
Am I running to the grocerystore?
Am I going to be at home allday homeschooling my kids?
Those things dictate whatyou're going to put on each day.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
You hold it up, you go.
Is this going to work for today?
Speaker 1 (09:41):
You might try certain things on and take them off and
you're like, nope, this isn'tright for today.
So we have to do the same thingwith our joy, though, although
I think of it like it's almostlike our undergarments, like we
have to choose that first.
We're going to wake up everyday and say I am going to be
joyful today.
I am going to be joyful becauseGod has placed that within the
(10:02):
depths of my soul, and inscripture he tells us there are
a few things that he tells usthat he fills us with, and
that's joy.
And he tells us that he fillsus with peace.
And the other things are thingsthat we're wearing.
They're outward signs that youhave this joy deep inside of you
(10:23):
and it goes.
It's the one thing that wechoose every day, and the other
things follow.
So I think, as we're standingin front of our closet, though,
trying to choose what we'regoing to put on for that day, am
I going to choose to be bittertoday?
Am I going to choose that I'mgoing to be angry?
Am I going to have unrealisticexpectations for my kids that
(10:45):
aren't going to be met and thenI'm going to be frustrated?
Or am I going to choose joyfrom the beginning, and I think
that the other things fall intoplace when I wake up and I'm
like I am going to live in ajoyful way today.
Have the mind of Christ today,right, and those three things
love, joy, peace those are theinternal things that you have to
(11:06):
have for anything else to flowout of you, for any of the
fruits of the spirit, for you tobe kind, for you to be gentle,
for you to be patient, and thisis assuming we've accepted
Christ right.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Otherwise he's not operating in us.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Right Well unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
You know we can't conjure up these things within
ourselves.
How many times have you triedto forgive?
How many times have you triedto?
You know, feel joy?
You can't.
It's got to be a choice thatyou have, and then the Lord can
flow through you.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
The feelings will follow.
You might not always feel likegoing to work every day.
You might not feel like lovingyour husband every day.
You might not feel like beingaround people that are not
joyful every day because they'resucking you in and bringing you
down.
I've probably been that persona few times.
You know being negative.
Much easier to be negative somedays.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
But if you think of it like it's your underwear,
come on.
Yeah, it's your base layer.
You put it on every day so thateverything else can fall into
place.
You don't go out without thatpart, no matter what you're
choosing for the day.
What else follows?
Those things are necessary.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
We're not trying to minimize that some people have
to work a lot harder at havingjoy.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, the physical things.
Physical things that people areup against, blood work that you
need to do, sunshine Thyroidthings Physical things that
people are up against Blood work, that you need to do Sunshine,
thyroid issues, postpartum, youknow, yeah, there's some legit
stuff and you may need to getsome help, but we're not
minimizing that Right, not tominimize that.
But generally speaking, youstill have to choose, I mean,
(12:39):
even in your worst moments, Ithink.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I've had migraines for years I have been so sick
I've been in the bathroom fordays.
Did you feel joyful?
I did not feel joyful, but Ichose to focus on the cross.
Every time I will focus on thecross.
I will focus on the joy of mysalvation.
At one point, when I wasvomiting maybe too much
(13:02):
information I had a vision ofseeing Jesus on the joy of my
salvation.
At one point, when I wasvomiting maybe too much
information I had a vision ofseeing Jesus on the cross.
He did not take away themigraine, but I did get a chance
and opportunity to persevere.
It was so great.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
You got to live out that verse, baby.
But so we're going to choose tostart our day I think that
that's a good analogy for us asmoms Our clothing, as we're
putting that on.
So, in the midst of all of ourcircumstances, we're going to
choose the joy, and that theLord freely gives this to us.
(13:37):
It's for our taking, and so wehave to choose that we're going
to take it, otherwise we're notgoing to have it.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
We have to focus on our salvation, on our purpose
that God has sent us here for tomake disciples, for whatever
purposes he has for us and forhis kingdom.
I think about Peter walking onwater.
His focus had to be on Jesuswhere he sank.
He was either going to walk onwater, which he did, or he sank,
which he started to do.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yes, he started to do so the minute we take our focus
off of him we are not going toget through that trial, not
easily.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
It's already hard enough to get through the trial.
Yep, if we can focus on him, itcan get us through.
It can build us, like buildingour muscles when we exercise.
It's building our perseverance.
Perseverance, our endurance.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I will say that when I have been in those moments
where you're just reallyoverwhelmed or you're really
down or you're just have anxietythat day or whatever you have
to find what it is that worksfor you, I know that I need to
go into my room and close thedoor and I can pray and turn on
worship music and it doesn'ttake that long normally for me
(14:45):
to come back around and refocusand say, okay, yep, that was a
really hard moment.
That really took me by surprise, took me off guard, messed me
up.
I was not being joyful, but howto come back around like
figuring out how to get back tothat place.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
And if we pause and we get our focus on him, the
circumstance might not be easyby any means, except that we can
get through it we all know thatone person, right that is on
one end of the spectrum or theother, there's the person that
radiates joy.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Both of us know people, I sure together and
separately, that do radiate joyand you just look at them and
you're like man.
I know that your life isn'tperfect, that you have
circumstances, but they'rechoosing to be joyful no matter
what.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
As hard as it is.
Then there's people on theother end of the spectrum who
are not so joyful and they arecomplainers and miserable and
and maybe they need somebody tocome around them and lift them
up and give them a word ofencouragement.
And you know, pray over themright.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
But when the joy is for our taking, we have to
choose to take it.
And when we're in the lord,then the lord is in us, and so
when we're in the Lord, then theLord is in us.
And so what we're fillingourselves up with, hopefully, as
believers, is to be filled withthe Holy Spirit, to be
overflowing, to radiate his joyso that people are drawn to us,
(16:16):
and when you're radiating misery, nobody's going to be drawn to
the cross because of that.
So I think that I just I wantmy persona to be, even when I
don't necessarily feel itsometimes.
Sometimes you have to fake ituntil you make it right, until
you start to actually feel itWell, they'll say smile, even if
(16:37):
you don't feel like it.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
eventually you'll feel happy.
That's on a spectrum.
Of course, if you're reallydealing with some hard things,
that might not work.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Of course, but we have to trust in the Lord and
that he has good things for usand that he has good works and
that he will bring us into hislight so that we can reflect him
.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
We just need to be surrendered to him.
We need to die to ourselves,focus on him, not our selfish
ambitions, so that he can comein and be the light in and
through us and radiate joy andpeace.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I think the question we should be asking ourselves
often is how do we want to beknown?
What do we want people to thinkof us when they think about who
we are?
You know, if somebody were todescribe, I would hope that
somebody would say, yeah, jen isreally joyful, she's really fun
to be around.
But really we all have to justsit with God in a quiet place
(17:35):
and ask him to fill ourindividual spaces with joy.
And so, if you're putting thatinto practical terms, let's say
that you have a really hardmarriage and you're hurting in
that area and you need to sitdown with him and say, hey, god,
I need you to come and to fillthis area with your joy.
Help me to see my marriage witha new perspective, with joy in
(17:56):
the center of it all.
Drown out the hurt with yourjoy.
Whatever it is that you need todo to put joy into each of
those circumstances.
Or maybe there's a really hardperson to be around.
We all have a hard person inour life that you just dread
seeing, and hopefully it's, youknow, not somebody at work that
you have to see every single day.
(18:16):
But there are hard people to bearound, and so maybe our prayer
in that quiet time has to beLord.
This person is incrediblydifficult for me to be around,
and so maybe our prayer in thatquiet time has to be Lord, this
person is incredibly difficultfor me to be around.
So fill me with your joy whenI'm around them and help me to
love them.
Yep, help me to see them throughyour lens and the lens of joy,
and to see their purpose, thatyou have for them and fill my
(18:38):
joy so that it fills the room tooverflowing, and so their
negativity just bounces off ofme.
So I think, if we just think ofthose circumstances, what are
the joy thieves in our lives?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Complaining, oh, Israelites were in the desert
for 40 years, you know theynever got to the promised land.
Because they're complaining?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
But we have to start seeing those things quickly
though, recognizing when thereis a thief in the room and when
our joy is being taken from us,and recapture and the enemy is
just waiting for that rightmoment to pounce.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
He comes to kill, steal and destroy, as john 10 10
says.
But he comes, jesus comes thatwe might have life and life more
abundantly.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
So let's transition this into how do we teach our
kids to be filled with joy andpeace?
I'm not going to tell them that, it's like underwear.
So when I was praying about howto teach this to my kids, mario
came to mind.
And Mario is this happy littleguy and he's on mission.
(19:47):
Right, he's headed for theflagpole.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
The video game.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yes, the video game.
He's headed for the flagpoleand he's got to reach that and
there's all kinds of obstaclesin his way.
And so if you think of theKoopa, the little guy that's up
in the cloud and he's throwinghis hammers or the little crown
things down and he's trying totake you out.
This is what the Koopa is,joanna does.
(20:11):
She's looking at me like shehas no idea.
She's never played Mario I.
She's looking at me like shehas no idea Because she's never
played Mario.
I don't know how, but so theKoopa is up in the air and he's
floating around in this cloud.
He's throwing things down.
He's trying to kill Mario thewhole time, and so Mario's
dodging his stuff and he'strying to watch to see what's
coming his way.
And Mario's doing it the wholetime with a smile on his face.
(20:34):
So I'm telling my kids Mario'sdoing it the whole time with a
smile on his face.
So I'm telling my kids, I'mtrying to explain to them this
scenario.
I was, like you know, choosingjoy is a lot like Mario, like
he's on mission and he knowsthat he's got to get to that
finish line and things are goingto be.
There's going to be obstaclesand there's going to be.
You know the little mushroomguys which my kids swear are
little poop emojis, but they arenot, they're mushrooms.
(20:55):
Swear are little poop emojis,but they are not, they're
mushrooms.
But you have to jump over themand there's spiky things and
there's things that are movingand in your way, and so when you
compare that to life and howyou know there's all these
things coming at you and thingsthat you have to dodge and
things that you need to closeyour eyes when you see or things
that you hear and you need toplug your ears.
If we think of all of thosethings, like satan is attacking
(21:18):
us, and that's really thekoopa's whole job in mario, but
mario stays on mission and he'slike I have to get to that
flagpole and dodge all of theenemy's attacks, yeah, and so
he's doing it all with a smileon his face, though Mario
doesn't ever stop smiling.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
And I'm thinking of the disciples, and most of them
died all but one right For theirfaith martyred, and so they had
to have some kind of joy to getthem through the hardships.
They didn't turn away.
They kept their eyes focused onJesus Stephen when the sky
opened up, when he was beingstoned, he had a vision or he
(22:00):
saw heaven.
I mean, he stayed focused andGod let him stay focused on him,
Right.
Even up until death.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah, but we have to recognize those things too.
I'm not very quick sometimes torecognize that it's Satan's way
of trying to steal my joy andnot just my kid being a turd.
That's hard.
I don't jump to that conclusionvery quickly.
Or when something comes up inthe marriage and we're, you know
we're bickering about somethingor whatever to recognize that
(22:30):
those are Satan's attacks andthat's what he wants for us.
And so right.
So, recognizing those thingscoming before they're even there
, you're anticipating the koopathat's gonna, it's coming, he's
going to throw it.
When is he gonna throw it?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
and so you're just anticipating when it's gonna
come it reminds me of the versewhen you say that you know in
this life we will have trialsand tribulations.
We have to accept that this isthis is life, this is not heaven
, this is not our home, and Ithink we shouldn't think it's
strange when these things happento us.
As scripture says, we firsthave to accept yeah, this is
(23:08):
going to be hard, it is hard,and when this hard is over,
there's going to be a next hard.
But he says you're going tohave these trials and
tribulations, but I will neverleave you or forsake you.
He's in it, with us.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Colossians 3, verses 12 to 14, tell us that we're
God's chosen people, we're holyand dearly loved, and so we're
supposed to clothe ourselveswith compassion, kindness,
humility, gentleness andpatience.
Then, in Psalm 30, 11, he tellsus that he said you have loosed
my sackcloth and clothed mewith joy, and so he's going to
(23:43):
take the rags and clothed uswith joy.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
He's coming back for a spotless bride.
You think of the bride wearingher gown?
Yeah, he's going to clean us up, if we allow him.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
So, man, a lot of thought.
I think every podcast is kindof like this for me it's just a
lot of moving pieces and a lotthat we're learning along with
our listeners.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
These are really simple concepts in scripture but
we make them so hard, we makeit so much harder than it needs
to be.
Sometimes I know I'm you know,52 and I'm thinking why am I
just getting some message?
You know that God's speaking tome through scripture or
speaking to me in my life.
(24:27):
Am I a slow learner?
Am I a really slow learner?
Why am I just getting thisright now?
This could have saved me a lotof trial and tribulation in some
areas years ago if I had justgotten that message sooner.
But we're all on a journey.
We're always going to havethings that we're working on and
through that God is dealingwith us in, if we allow it, if
(24:50):
we invite him into the hardplaces, into the hurt places.
It's a process.
We're just always learning.
So sometimes I just think aboutthis world.
It's a test.
It's who are we becoming?
Are we becoming like Christ?
Are we becoming like the world?
We have to choose, like Jennasaid, to put on our garments of
(25:13):
joy and praise and peace.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
I think most of us want that.
I mean, I think the majority ofmoms want to be the fun, joyful
mom.
They don't want to be naggingand miserable and down in the
dumps all the time, like theywant lightheartedness in their
homes.
And if we would just start ourday and turn it over to the Lord
and say God, I'm choosing to bejoyful today.
(25:38):
Help me to teach my children tochoose to be joyful today so we
can all be one big, happyfamily?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, If we could even just get our entire family
to pause when it's escalatingand be able to sit down and
pause.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Just recognize the enemy's attack in that.
Yeah, when it's gettingescalated and it's heated and
somebody needs to.
Maybe if you're all on the samepage, somebody can pause and
say hey, we all need to justtake a minute.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
You know we don't want to takethe bait of the enemy, and how
many times have we done that?
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yep.
So put your garments on everyday, go teach your children
about Mario and to put on joy aswell, because you want that to
be a skill that they have fortheir whole life.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Because it's going to get hard, it will be hard, and
so how do we have joy and pausein those moments so that we can
enjoy some of the journey as wego through this life?
Speaker 1 (26:43):
That's right.
Thanks for hanging out.
We'll see you next time.
This is the Cultivating Hearts podcast.
Pull up a seat and join sistersJenna and Joanna as we
cultivate the hearts ofourselves and our children.
Hey sisters, welcome to theCultivating Hearts podcast.
Children hey sisters, welcometo the Cultivating Heart podcast
.
We're putting together ourthoughts on what it looks like
(00:32):
to choose joy and putting thaton every day, and then not only
for ourselves, but how to teachthat to your children.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
It sounds like an easy concept.
You know, just count it all.
Joy right, Be happy, just behappy.
It takes effort, it takes achoice to have joy.
It's not just something thatcomes upon us.
Of course we have thesetemporary moments where it's
very joyful you might be doingsomething fun and it's just not
(01:00):
lasting joy right.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, ironically though, this has been on our
calendar and our schedule herepodcast, I don't even know what
we're on 25 or something wherewe're talking about joy, and it
happens to fall once again whenour pastor is preaching on the
very topic for several weeks,and so we've been taking notes
(01:22):
and thinking through his partsand his things that he had to
say and our own, and justprocessing all of that.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, that verse has popped into my mind many times
over the years.
Count it all joy, have joy intrial.
And it irks me because italmost feels like my pain is
being minimized through thatverse.
It feels like, well, you'regoing through all this stuff,
(01:53):
but have joy.
I want you to focus on joy.
Scripture says and God is nottrying to minimize our pain and
our suffering, he's trying toget our focus in the right place
so that we can have joy.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, there's people, all throughout scripture though
, that you could think of, thatare in miserable circumstances,
but they're singing praises andthey're writing Psalms and it's
seemingly unreasonably joyfulfor their circumstances.
They should not be happyreasonably joyful for their
circumstances.
They should not be happy.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Right Paul in chains, in prison, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
talking to the church in Philippi, he says he has joy
when he's praying for them, butI think that, really, if you
were to study, that joy is fromwithin, and so what he's sharing
, though, is I know I'mconfident in who my savior is
and who God is, and so thattranslates into if it's bigger
and it's more powerful than whatmy circumstances are.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
James 1, 2 through 4 says consider it pure joy, my
brothers and sisters, wheneveryou face trials of many kinds,
because you know that thetesting of your faith produces
perseverance.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Don't you think, though, that there's a lot of
controversy on the topic?
There's a lot of people thatwould rather wallow in their
pain.
You've said that you'veactually asked somebody if they
wanted joy, if they wanted toget out of their misery.
They said no.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Well, how that went was I think I had been seeing
somebody for over a year and ahalf and the Lord put it on my
heart, asked them if they wantto be better.
And I'm arguing in my head withthe Lord they've been coming
for over a year and a half.
Why would I ask them?
This question that's ridiculousJust kept being prompted.
(03:42):
So I said do you want to bebetter?
And this person said no.
I really don't know who I wouldbe if I were better.
And at that point I thought whatdo I do with this?
So I said well, why don't wejust pause?
Let's, let's just pause.
You're welcome to come back.
(04:08):
What's the point of you beingthere?
Yeah, yeah.
And again, counseling can bethis place of just going over
and over and over something, andI think it's not necessarily
always helpful.
As I have mentioned, it ishelpful to have somebody to talk
to, to have wise counsel and tobounce some things off of.
At the same time, the goal,hopefully, is to move forward.
You know, I feel this way aboutmy chiropractor.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I don't want a chiropractor that wants to see
me every other day.
I want one that's going to fixme and I move on.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
It gets expensive if not you just keep going forever
um, and there is no specifictime frame.
Everybody is at a differentplace and Jesus 100% meets us
where we are, and some of usaren't ready for the next step,
and so there's just this fineline of having discernment of
where the Lord is leading all ofus.
(04:54):
When we are counseling somebodyor when we are meeting with a
friend, you know where, whereare they, at how long do they
need to be there?
And just to be able to discernwhat the Lord is doing in that
moment, because we can staythere too long, jump too fast
ahead too, so it's a matter ofjust listening.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
There's probably other reasons why people choose
to sit in that seat, though.
What are other reasons thatpeople have given you, why they
want to stay stagnant, you know?
Or still, or not joyful?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Well, we know it's much easier to be negative than
it is to be positive or notjoyful.
Well, we know it's much easierto be negative than it is to be
positive.
It takes effort.
We are born into a fallen,sinful world and so it's easy to
be negative.
I mean that just comesnaturally, yeah, isn't?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
it.
It doesn't come naturally formost people.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Maybe they have some extra happy chemicals in their
brain.
You wonder that with somepeople.
You think, you know, are thesepeople really this happy?
You know, are they really thisjoyful all the time?
Are they choosing joy?
I have thought, are they indenial?
You know, you hear peoplesometimes say well, I like to
stay busy because I don't wantto have to sit and think about
(05:57):
things.
And there's some truth to that.
I think the more time you haveon your hands sometimes you sit
around, you wallow, you feelmore sorry for yourself.
You need to get out and do somethings and I always, you know,
encourage people, includingmyself like have a moment where
you are dealing with youremotions.
God gave them to us for areason.
They are important.
Sometimes, you know, ourfeelings tell us we need to
change things, or look at somethings or hand some things over
(06:20):
to the Lord.
Have a time where you'rescheduling to have a pity party,
but then don't stay there andhand it over to the Lord.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, I think the bigger issue, though, is that
when we do that, it's becausewe're focused on ourselves, not
on filling ourselves so fullwith the Lord that we you know
we are focused in the wrongplace.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
It's a thief of joy yeah, we can become super
selfish and looking too inwardto everything, um, even looking
to ourselves forself-affirmations.
So I think sometimes we do lookso much inward.
We can become so analytical.
We can actually think ourselvesinto idol worship really.
(07:03):
We can actually think ourselvesinto idol worship really.
We think, think, think, think,think.
At the same time, the Lord wantsus to use our brain, you know,
and to go okay, what is thisreaction that I'm having?
Or this response I'm having?
What is this about Lord?
And then, you know, we go backand we ask God what is this
about?
And he will show us, hopefully,and we can move forward and
hand that over to him and choosejoy.
(07:25):
Some people want to, just, Ithink, feel safe.
They want other people toaffirm them, they want people to
be in their misery, with them,with them.
(07:49):
Some people are living in theirown perspective and their own
ideology.
That is not God's truth, and sothey want other people to join
them in that perspective so thatthey can feel good about
themselves.
And really our safety and ourjoy does not come from
circumstances or other peopleaffirming us.
It comes from God and who hesays we are.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah, we have to remember that choosing joy
doesn't look the same as feelingjoy.
You may not feel joyful, and westill have to choose it, and so
, when we're talking throughthis, all throughout scripture,
there's a lot of circumstanceswhere God talks about our
clothing and what we clotheourselves with, and probably the
(08:27):
most well-known is the armor ofGod, and we are supposed to
wake up every day and we'resupposed to put on our armor,
and you've got, you know, thebelt of truth and the helmet of
salvation.
You have all of these thingsthat he talks you through, as if
you're supposed to physicallychoose to put those things on
you each day.
All throughout scripture,though, there's circumstances
(08:48):
where clothing is very important.
You know, I think of the womanwho reached out her hand just to
touch Jesus.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
She was bleeding for 12 years, grabbed his cloak.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
You can actually go down a whole rabbit hole.
If you really wanted to studyall of the garments throughout
scripture, there's a lot.
We started looking them up, andI mean there's over and over
again talking about our filthyrags, our clothing being the
robe of righteousness.
Yeah, so you were choosing whatyou were going to wear each day
(09:19):
and you're standing in front ofyour closet and you're picking
out your outfit.
You're looking at what is aheadof me for my day.
What do I have?
Am I going to a wedding todayor am I going to work?
Am I running to the grocerystore?
Am I going to be at home allday homeschooling my kids?
Those things dictate whatyou're going to put on each day.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
You hold it up, you go.
Is this going to work for today?
Speaker 1 (09:41):
You might try certain things on and take them off and
you're like, nope, this isn'tright for today.
So we have to do the same thingwith our joy, though, although
I think of it like it's almostlike our undergarments, like we
have to choose that first.
We're going to wake up everyday and say I am going to be
joyful today.
I am going to be joyful becauseGod has placed that within the
(10:02):
depths of my soul, and inscripture he tells us there are
a few things that he tells usthat he fills us with, and
that's joy.
And he tells us that he fillsus with peace.
And the other things are thingsthat we're wearing.
They're outward signs that youhave this joy deep inside of you
(10:23):
and it goes.
It's the one thing that wechoose every day, and the other
things follow.
So I think, as we're standingin front of our closet, though,
trying to choose what we'regoing to put on for that day, am
I going to choose to be bittertoday?
Am I going to choose that I'mgoing to be angry?
Am I going to have unrealisticexpectations for my kids that
(10:45):
aren't going to be met and thenI'm going to be frustrated?
Or am I going to choose joyfrom the beginning, and I think
that the other things fall intoplace when I wake up and I'm
like I am going to live in ajoyful way today.
Have the mind of Christ today,right, and those three things
love, joy, peace those are theinternal things that you have to
(11:06):
have for anything else to flowout of you, for any of the
fruits of the spirit, for you tobe kind, for you to be gentle,
for you to be patient, and thisis assuming we've accepted
Christ right.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Otherwise he's not operating in us.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Right Well unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
You know we can't conjure up these things within
ourselves.
How many times have you triedto forgive?
How many times have you triedto?
You know, feel joy?
You can't.
It's got to be a choice thatyou have, and then the Lord can
flow through you.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
The feelings will follow.
You might not always feel likegoing to work every day.
You might not feel like lovingyour husband every day.
You might not feel like beingaround people that are not
joyful every day because they'resucking you in and bringing you
down.
I've probably been that persona few times.
You know being negative.
Much easier to be negative somedays.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
But if you think of it like it's your underwear,
come on.
Yeah, it's your base layer.
You put it on every day so thateverything else can fall into
place.
You don't go out without thatpart, no matter what you're
choosing for the day.
What else follows?
Those things are necessary.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
We're not trying to minimize that some people have
to work a lot harder at havingjoy.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, the physical things.
Physical things that people areup against, blood work that you
need to do, sunshine Thyroidthings Physical things that
people are up against Blood work, that you need to do Sunshine,
thyroid issues, postpartum, youknow, yeah, there's some legit
stuff and you may need to getsome help, but we're not
minimizing that Right, not tominimize that.
But generally speaking, youstill have to choose, I mean,
(12:39):
even in your worst moments, Ithink.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I've had migraines for years I have been so sick
I've been in the bathroom fordays.
Did you feel joyful?
I did not feel joyful, but Ichose to focus on the cross.
Every time I will focus on thecross.
I will focus on the joy of mysalvation.
At one point, when I wasvomiting maybe too much
(13:02):
information I had a vision ofseeing Jesus on the joy of my
salvation.
At one point, when I wasvomiting maybe too much
information I had a vision ofseeing Jesus on the cross.
He did not take away themigraine, but I did get a chance
and opportunity to persevere.
It was so great.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
You got to live out that verse, baby.
But so we're going to choose tostart our day I think that
that's a good analogy for us asmoms Our clothing, as we're
putting that on.
So, in the midst of all of ourcircumstances, we're going to
choose the joy, and that theLord freely gives this to us.
(13:37):
It's for our taking, and so wehave to choose that we're going
to take it, otherwise we're notgoing to have it.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
We have to focus on our salvation, on our purpose
that God has sent us here for tomake disciples, for whatever
purposes he has for us and forhis kingdom.
I think about Peter walking onwater.
His focus had to be on Jesuswhere he sank.
He was either going to walk onwater, which he did, or he sank,
which he started to do.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yes, he started to do so the minute we take our focus
off of him we are not going toget through that trial, not
easily.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
It's already hard enough to get through the trial.
Yep, if we can focus on him, itcan get us through.
It can build us, like buildingour muscles when we exercise.
It's building our perseverance.
Perseverance, our endurance.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I will say that when I have been in those moments
where you're just reallyoverwhelmed or you're really
down or you're just have anxietythat day or whatever you have
to find what it is that worksfor you, I know that I need to
go into my room and close thedoor and I can pray and turn on
worship music and it doesn'ttake that long normally for me
(14:45):
to come back around and refocusand say, okay, yep, that was a
really hard moment.
That really took me by surprise, took me off guard, messed me
up.
I was not being joyful, but howto come back around like
figuring out how to get back tothat place.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
And if we pause and we get our focus on him, the
circumstance might not be easyby any means, except that we can
get through it we all know thatone person, right that is on
one end of the spectrum or theother, there's the person that
radiates joy.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Both of us know people, I sure together and
separately, that do radiate joyand you just look at them and
you're like man.
I know that your life isn'tperfect, that you have
circumstances, but they'rechoosing to be joyful no matter
what.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
As hard as it is.
Then there's people on theother end of the spectrum who
are not so joyful and they arecomplainers and miserable and
and maybe they need somebody tocome around them and lift them
up and give them a word ofencouragement.
And you know, pray over themright.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
But when the joy is for our taking, we have to
choose to take it.
And when we're in the lord,then the lord is in us, and so
when we're in the Lord, then theLord is in us.
And so what we're fillingourselves up with, hopefully, as
believers, is to be filled withthe Holy Spirit, to be
overflowing, to radiate his joyso that people are drawn to us,
(16:16):
and when you're radiating misery, nobody's going to be drawn to
the cross because of that.
So I think that I just I wantmy persona to be, even when I
don't necessarily feel itsometimes.
Sometimes you have to fake ituntil you make it right, until
you start to actually feel itWell, they'll say smile, even if
(16:37):
you don't feel like it.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
eventually you'll feel happy.
That's on a spectrum.
Of course, if you're reallydealing with some hard things,
that might not work.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Of course, but we have to trust in the Lord and
that he has good things for usand that he has good works and
that he will bring us into hislight so that we can reflect him
.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
We just need to be surrendered to him.
We need to die to ourselves,focus on him, not our selfish
ambitions, so that he can comein and be the light in and
through us and radiate joy andpeace.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I think the question we should be asking ourselves
often is how do we want to beknown?
What do we want people to thinkof us when they think about who
we are?
You know, if somebody were todescribe, I would hope that
somebody would say, yeah, jen isreally joyful, she's really fun
to be around.
But really we all have to justsit with God in a quiet place
(17:35):
and ask him to fill ourindividual spaces with joy.
And so, if you're putting thatinto practical terms, let's say
that you have a really hardmarriage and you're hurting in
that area and you need to sitdown with him and say, hey, god,
I need you to come and to fillthis area with your joy.
Help me to see my marriage witha new perspective, with joy in
(17:56):
the center of it all.
Drown out the hurt with yourjoy.
Whatever it is that you need todo to put joy into each of
those circumstances.
Or maybe there's a really hardperson to be around.
We all have a hard person inour life that you just dread
seeing, and hopefully it's, youknow, not somebody at work that
you have to see every single day.
(18:16):
But there are hard people to bearound, and so maybe our prayer
in that quiet time has to beLord.
This person is incrediblydifficult for me to be around,
and so maybe our prayer in thatquiet time has to be Lord, this
person is incredibly difficultfor me to be around.
So fill me with your joy whenI'm around them and help me to
love them.
Yep, help me to see them throughyour lens and the lens of joy,
and to see their purpose, thatyou have for them and fill my
(18:38):
joy so that it fills the room tooverflowing, and so their
negativity just bounces off ofme.
So I think, if we just think ofthose circumstances, what are
the joy thieves in our lives?
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Complaining, oh, Israelites were in the desert
for 40 years, you know theynever got to the promised land.
Because they're complaining?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
But we have to start seeing those things quickly
though, recognizing when thereis a thief in the room and when
our joy is being taken from us,and recapture and the enemy is
just waiting for that rightmoment to pounce.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
He comes to kill, steal and destroy, as john 10 10
says.
But he comes, jesus comes thatwe might have life and life more
abundantly.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
So let's transition this into how do we teach our
kids to be filled with joy andpeace?
I'm not going to tell them that, it's like underwear.
So when I was praying about howto teach this to my kids, mario
came to mind.
And Mario is this happy littleguy and he's on mission.
(19:47):
Right, he's headed for theflagpole.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
The video game.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yes, the video game.
He's headed for the flagpoleand he's got to reach that and
there's all kinds of obstaclesin his way.
And so if you think of theKoopa, the little guy that's up
in the cloud and he's throwinghis hammers or the little crown
things down and he's trying totake you out.
This is what the Koopa is,joanna does.
(20:11):
She's looking at me like shehas no idea.
She's never played Mario I.
She's looking at me like shehas no idea Because she's never
played Mario.
I don't know how, but so theKoopa is up in the air and he's
floating around in this cloud.
He's throwing things down.
He's trying to kill Mario thewhole time, and so Mario's
dodging his stuff and he'strying to watch to see what's
coming his way.
And Mario's doing it the wholetime with a smile on his face.
(20:34):
So I'm telling my kids Mario'sdoing it the whole time with a
smile on his face.
So I'm telling my kids, I'mtrying to explain to them this
scenario.
I was, like you know, choosingjoy is a lot like Mario, like
he's on mission and he knowsthat he's got to get to that
finish line and things are goingto be.
There's going to be obstaclesand there's going to be.
You know the little mushroomguys which my kids swear are
little poop emojis, but they arenot, they're mushrooms.
(20:55):
Swear are little poop emojis,but they are not, they're
mushrooms.
But you have to jump over themand there's spiky things and
there's things that are movingand in your way, and so when you
compare that to life and howyou know there's all these
things coming at you and thingsthat you have to dodge and
things that you need to closeyour eyes when you see or things
that you hear and you need toplug your ears.
If we think of all of thosethings, like satan is attacking
(21:18):
us, and that's really thekoopa's whole job in mario, but
mario stays on mission and he'slike I have to get to that
flagpole and dodge all of theenemy's attacks, yeah, and so
he's doing it all with a smileon his face, though Mario
doesn't ever stop smiling.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
And I'm thinking of the disciples, and most of them
died all but one right For theirfaith martyred, and so they had
to have some kind of joy to getthem through the hardships.
They didn't turn away.
They kept their eyes focused onJesus Stephen when the sky
opened up, when he was beingstoned, he had a vision or he
(22:00):
saw heaven.
I mean, he stayed focused andGod let him stay focused on him,
Right.
Even up until death.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah, but we have to recognize those things too.
I'm not very quick sometimes torecognize that it's Satan's way
of trying to steal my joy andnot just my kid being a turd.
That's hard.
I don't jump to that conclusionvery quickly.
Or when something comes up inthe marriage and we're, you know
we're bickering about somethingor whatever to recognize that
(22:30):
those are Satan's attacks andthat's what he wants for us.
And so right.
So, recognizing those thingscoming before they're even there
, you're anticipating the koopathat's gonna, it's coming, he's
going to throw it.
When is he gonna throw it?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
and so you're just anticipating when it's gonna
come it reminds me of the versewhen you say that you know in
this life we will have trialsand tribulations.
We have to accept that this isthis is life, this is not heaven
, this is not our home, and Ithink we shouldn't think it's
strange when these things happento us.
As scripture says, we firsthave to accept yeah, this is
(23:08):
going to be hard, it is hard,and when this hard is over,
there's going to be a next hard.
But he says you're going tohave these trials and
tribulations, but I will neverleave you or forsake you.
He's in it, with us.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Colossians 3, verses 12 to 14, tell us that we're
God's chosen people, we're holyand dearly loved, and so we're
supposed to clothe ourselveswith compassion, kindness,
humility, gentleness andpatience.
Then, in Psalm 30, 11, he tellsus that he said you have loosed
my sackcloth and clothed mewith joy, and so he's going to
(23:43):
take the rags and clothed uswith joy.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
He's coming back for a spotless bride.
You think of the bride wearingher gown?
Yeah, he's going to clean us up, if we allow him.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
So, man, a lot of thought.
I think every podcast is kindof like this for me it's just a
lot of moving pieces and a lotthat we're learning along with
our listeners.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
These are really simple concepts in scripture but
we make them so hard, we makeit so much harder than it needs
to be.
Sometimes I know I'm you know,52 and I'm thinking why am I
just getting some message?
You know that God's speaking tome through scripture or
speaking to me in my life.
(24:27):
Am I a slow learner?
Am I a really slow learner?
Why am I just getting thisright now?
This could have saved me a lotof trial and tribulation in some
areas years ago if I had justgotten that message sooner.
But we're all on a journey.
We're always going to havethings that we're working on and
through that God is dealingwith us in, if we allow it, if
(24:50):
we invite him into the hardplaces, into the hurt places.
It's a process.
We're just always learning.
So sometimes I just think aboutthis world.
It's a test.
It's who are we becoming?
Are we becoming like Christ?
Are we becoming like the world?
We have to choose, like Jennasaid, to put on our garments of
(25:13):
joy and praise and peace.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
I think most of us want that.
I mean, I think the majority ofmoms want to be the fun, joyful
mom.
They don't want to be naggingand miserable and down in the
dumps all the time, like theywant lightheartedness in their
homes.
And if we would just start ourday and turn it over to the Lord
and say God, I'm choosing to bejoyful today.
(25:38):
Help me to teach my children tochoose to be joyful today so we
can all be one big, happyfamily?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, If we could even just get our entire family
to pause when it's escalatingand be able to sit down and
pause.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Just recognize the enemy's attack in that.
Yeah, when it's gettingescalated and it's heated and
somebody needs to.
Maybe if you're all on the samepage, somebody can pause and
say hey, we all need to justtake a minute.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
You know we don't want to takethe bait of the enemy, and how
many times have we done that?
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yep.
So put your garments on everyday, go teach your children
about Mario and to put on joy aswell, because you want that to
be a skill that they have fortheir whole life.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Because it's going to get hard, it will be hard, and
so how do we have joy and pausein those moments so that we can
enjoy some of the journey as wego through this life?
Speaker 1 (26:43):
That's right.
Thanks for hanging out.
We'll see you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com