What decides which stories survive the test of time? Who determines which voices echo through history's halls? These questions lie at the heart of our fascinating conversation with Dominique Luster, a master storyteller and dedicated archivist who's revolutionizing how we preserve Black narratives.
Describing her work as "Harriet Tubman meets Indiana Jones," Dominique shares her remarkable journey from theater major to founder of The Luster Company, a groundbreaking archival firm named after her fifth great-grandmother Charity—born enslaved in 1825 and later became an entrepreneur against extraordinary odds. This ancestral connection drives Dominique's mission to uncover, preserve, and celebrate the rich tapestry of Black history that traditional institutions have often overlooked.
Dominique offers profound insights into the power dynamics underlying historical preservation. "History doesn't repeat itself. Humans do," she explains, challenging us to recognize how the mere 1% of documents preserved in archives represents deliberate choices made by those with the power to decide which stories matter. Every preserved photograph, letter, or record reflects not just its creator's perspective but also the values of those who deemed it worthy of saving.
What resonates most powerfully is Dominique's celebration of everyday Black life. Beyond focusing solely on extraordinary achievements or devastating tragedies, she illuminates the meaningful middle—the beauty salon owner who served her community for decades, the thriving neighborhoods that created spaces of belonging, the ordinary triumphs that ground families in their heritage. These stories provide essential "anchor points" that help people understand themselves as part of something greater than themselves.
Ready to preserve your own family's legacy? Listen as Dominique shares practical strategies for conducting oral histories with elders and properly documenting family photographs. These simple acts of preservation might be the difference between stories that live on and those lost forever. Connect with Dominique at thelustercompany.com and through her upcoming contribution to "Brave Women at Work: Lessons in Letting Go."
Learn more about Dominique's Work Here: https://www.thelustercompany.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello again, welcome to the Cultural Curriculum Chat
Podcast.
I'm your host, Jeba Edmonds,and I'm so excited to have in
the guest chair today astoryteller, tedx speaker,
archivist, ms Dominique Luster.
But before we dive into ourconversation today, I want to
tell you more about our show.
(00:21):
Our show is dedicated toshowcase and share multicultural
educational practices andstrategies for you, educators
and community members who arestriving to promote and create
positive change.
Now a little bit morebackground on Dominique before
we jump into our conversationtoday.
(00:43):
Dominique Luster is a dedicatedstoryteller and advocate whose
primary mission is to illuminatethe rich narratives of the
Black diaspora.
With over a decade ofexperience in cultural heritage
and memory, she expertlynavigates the crossroads of
history and advocacy.
(01:04):
Formerly the Teenie HarrisArchivist at the Carnegie Museum
of Art, dominique founded theLuster Company in 2021,
channeling her passion intoensuring that Black stories are
not only preserved butcelebrated.
Her work is more than justresearch, but celebrated.
(01:27):
Her work is more than justresearch.
It's a vibrant tapestry wovenwith dynamic storytelling and a
profound commitment to justice.
Dominique has establishedherself as a fervent champion of
Black-centered narratives,combining her research prowess
with the art of narrativebuilding to create platforms
that elevate marginalized voices.
Her consulting services havebeen sought after by prestigious
(01:51):
institutions, including theKing Center, the J Paul Getty
Foundation and Denver PublicLibrary, alongside numerous
small and large nonprofits.
Through the Luster Company,dominique reveals hidden stories
, empowering individuals andorganizations to amplify the
voices of the Black community.
(02:13):
In 2018, her TED Talk on thetransformative power of archives
captivated a global audience,leading to features on popular
podcasts such as Archives inContext and Brave Women at Work.
Dominique is also asought-after keynote speaker at
(02:33):
Women's Leadership Conferences,where her impactful messages
resonates deeply with thosestriving to create a more
inclusive historical narrative.
Take a listen to me and Domininclusive historical narrative.
Take a listen to me andDominique's conversation.
(02:59):
Hello again, welcome to thecultural competition.
Hello again, welcome to theCultural Curriculum Chat Podcast
.
I'm your host, jeba Edmonds,and I am so excited to have in
the guest chair today astoryteller, tedx speaker,
archivist, ms Dominique Luster.
(03:28):
But before we dive into ourconversation today, I want to
tell you more about our show.
Our show is dedicated toshowcase and share multicultural
educational practices andstrategies for you, educators
and community members who arestriving to promote and create
positive change.
Now a little bit morebackground on Dominique before
we jump into our conversationtoday.
Dominique Lester is a dedicatedstoryteller and advocate whose
(03:50):
primary mission is to illuminatethe rich narratives of the
Black diaspora.
With over a decade ofexperience in cultural heritage
and memory, she expertlynavigates the crossroads of
history and advocacy.
Formerly the Teenie HarrisArchivist at the Carnegie Museum
(04:13):
of Art, dominique founded theLuster Company in 2021,
channeling her passion intoensuring that Black stories are
not only preserved butcelebrated.
Her work is more than justresearch it's a vibrant tapestry
woven with dynamic storytellingand a profound commitment to
(04:35):
justice.
Dominique has establishedherself as a fervent champion of
Black-centered narratives,combining her research prowess
with the art of narrativebuilding to create platforms
that elevate marginalized voices.
(04:55):
Her consulting services havebeen sought after by prestigious
institutions, including theKing Center, the J Paul Getty
Foundation and Denver PublicLibrary, alongside numerous
small and large nonprofits.
Through the Luster Company,dominique reveals hidden stories
, empowering individuals andorganizations to amplify the
(05:19):
voices of the Black community.
In 2018, her TED Talk on thetransformative power of archives
captivated a global audience,leading to features on popular
podcasts such as Archives inContext and Brave Women at Work.
Dominique is also asought-after keynote speaker at
(05:43):
Women's Leadership Conferences,where her impactful messages
resonates deeply with thosestriving to create a more
inclusive historical narrative.
Now join me in listening to ourimpactful conversation on the
Cultural Curriculum Chat podcast.
Take a listen to me andDominique's conversation.
(06:05):
All right, welcome back,educators, to the Cultural
Curriculum Chat Podcast.
I'm Jeva Edmonds sitting withthe uncomfortable Dominique
(06:25):
Luster today.
She is, oh, I can't tell youhow excited I am to have her on
our podcast friends.
I found her on TEDx, just youknow, looking through
multicultural,culture-responsive, you know
strategies, especially for useducators, and she has it beat.
(06:45):
She talks about how to searchfor those critical pieces of
history that people are tryingto be erased.
And again, how kismet is thisinterview this time in our
history?
So, dominique, welcome to theshow.
We're so excited to have youhere with us today.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Oh my gosh, thank you so much for inviting me, for
allowing me to be here andsharing space with you.
This is the best part of my day.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I'm so excited oh thank you, let's just get into
it.
You know your journey intoarchival work is so inspiring to
archival work is so inspiring,so let's just, you know, kind of
break it down for our guests sofar, our podcast listeners what
does archival work look like,before we talk about your
passion?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Absolutely so I kind of akin.
My particular flavor ofarchival work is kind of like
the joining between like HarrietTubman meets Indiana Jones.
We kind of go investigatingBlack history and all of these.
I mean we don't really likedive into caves and whatnot, but
we do go explore attics anddates, looking for history and
(08:00):
documents, and so that's myparticular flavor of archival
work.
But in general archivists arekind of the preservers and
keepers of historic documents,photographs, cookbooks, family
Bibles.
There's all kinds of documentsand things that tell the story
of who we are as people, ofsocieties, of civilization, and
(08:23):
archivists preserve those things, various things, so that they
can be available for the future,for other people, for new
generations, scholars, research,so that we can look back on
those documents and say whathappened.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Love that.
Okay.
So now, what has sparked yourpassion for preserving these and
celebrating these Blacknarratives?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
You know it's interesting.
I am from Kentucky.
Sometimes it comes out in myaccent just a little bit, but
sometimes so if you catch me,slip a word here and there, it's
all good.
So I'm from Kentucky and myfamily kind of has a way, I
think, of lots of Black families.
Like we just tell stories.
(09:07):
You know how we talk thecookout, easter, thanksgiving,
you all sit around this tableand you go hear about this story
and you grow up hearing thesestories and grow up hearing
about this time or that time orthis person or that person.
But when I got to university,still in Kentucky, was when I
(09:29):
started working at a universitylibrary in the archives and
special collections on campus,mostly because I needed a campus
job.
Don't get it twisted, I justthink it wasn't some, like I've
always.
Actually I was the kid whoworked in the library, like I
was that kid growing up.
I was always reading books, butit wasn't this, I just want to
(09:51):
be an archivist.
I didn't even know what thatwas.
I just needed a job, to be veryhonest.
And at the time the campuslibrary was paying $15 an hour,
which not trying to date myself,but at that time Big money $15
an hour was big money for astudent job on campus where you
(10:12):
could either work in the dininghall or you can work in tech
services, or you can work in thelibrary at the desk Right so,
but I, um, I was working in aspecial collection which I
didn't know, the main libraryversus the art library versus I
didn't know.
I was just like this is wherethey told me to show up to work
but sit at this desk and get my$15 an hour and that is
(10:34):
absolutely not what it was.
It was actually kind of anintro archiving program, which
again didn't know what that was,which, again, didn't know what
that was.
And the manager of the programwas this amazing, wonderful,
(10:54):
just phenomenal Black woman whonurtured and tutored all these
students into taking the skillsthat they had in whatever major
they were in, and applying it tohistoric objects.
So, for example, I was actuallya theater major in college.
I know wild, given that I'm anarchivist now.
I was a theater major incollege and she showed me how to
apply playbill collections.
(11:14):
Like you know, when you go to aBroadway show, they give you
the playbill and it shows youall the different information
about the actors and the set andthe design and all that stuff.
The university had a collectionof like hundreds of them and
they were from like the 1910s,1920s, 1940s, 1970s.
They were historic in my mind.
And so she was like, yeah, youhave this expertise in this one
(11:38):
discipline, right, this academicdiscipline you're studying to
be a theater major.
Did you know that pretty muchany discipline you could
possibly think of has a historicpast?
Wow, so she tried it for all ofus.
I happen to be a theater major,but there were students who
were pre-med, there werestudents who were in
architecture and engineering,there were students from all
kinds of disciplines, and shewould find the historic avenue
(12:03):
of all of our various interests,one by one, and she would
nurture each individual studentin whatever they were already
majoring in.
She wasn't trying to convinceanyone to become an archivist,
she was just saying hey, you'repre-med, are you interested in
the history of medicine?
Because we got stuff about that.
Hey, you're an engineeringstudent, are you interested in
(12:24):
the history of?
I don't know?
I don't know engineering.
And so she just nurtured thatinterest so that it just kind of
planted these depth roots ineach of us.
Fast forward.
I remember she brought me inher office one day and I'm
pretty sure it was somethingthat I was doing at work and she
(12:46):
goes you seem to really likethis what we're doing.
You seem to really like this.
Did you know that this is athing?
Like, did you know that thereare those of us out here with
like master's degrees and PhDsthat do this for a living?
Like, has this ever occurred toyou that there's a thing called
library school?
And I was like, no, that is nota real word.
I know you made that one up.
(13:08):
It wasn't.
It was a real thing.
But honestly, my path intobecoming an archivist was
semi-circumstantial but alsointentionally divined and driven
right.
Intentionally divined anddriven right Like it was
(13:28):
circumstances that may havebrought me to the library, but I
do believe that people wereintentionally placed at that
library Educators, teachers,mentors, black women were
intentionally placed in thatlibrary to kind of nurture that
path forward for me.
And so I went from a theatercollection to a theater
collection about, specificallyabout Black history, towards and
(13:49):
purely Black history collection.
I mean, she just kept goingdeeper and deeper and deeper,
realizing that I had thisnatural love for history and for
Black history, and she justkept giving me more and more
opportunities to explore thatinterest until eventually I went
to library school and have beendoing this work ever since.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
This is amazing and it took that educator to spark
and make those connections.
Theater major Clay Bills.
Like who wouldn't think youknow?
Like, oh, people discard ClayBills after you know they go to
a Broadway performance.
You know, I keep all of minewhen we go to you know, my
husband and I go to Broadway.
Oh, I grew up dancing, so nowonder you are so comfortable on
(14:32):
that TEDx stage.
Honey, on stage, you are atheater major.
Okay, that makes so much sense.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Well, I don't know about that.
I don't know because actually,I was a lighting design student,
not a student Right?
So my undergraduate degree isin lighting design and
technology.
It's about putting can lightingcans in the air and hanging
electrics.
That's actually what my degreeis in, not in performing or
(15:03):
stage work.
I will say, though, that youknow you can stand on a stage,
and there is a skill in beingable to project and to speak
with your full diaphragm.
These skills are true, but whatI learned is that you know, as
(15:26):
a lighting designer, as alighting technician, I need to
be able to illuminate thisindividual from the back of the
house, so that the person in thevery back can see, so that the
person on the sides can see, sothat you know you capture all
their good angles, for lack of abetter word, but standing on
the stage and speaking to ussold-out girls.
That was the Lord in a prayer.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
He was there for you because you could have fooled me
.
You were just glad and glad andon that stage.
So I love hearing this.
Thank you, Dominique.
So that passion, that spark oflearning our histories and Black
narratives, how did that leadto you to found your company,
the Luster Company?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So I, my company, is called the Luster Company, sure,
which is my last name, but Ididn't actually name my company
after myself, which is a slightmisnomer.
I named it after my fifthgreat-grandmother.
I named her after my fifthgreat-grandmother.
Her first name was Charity, andCharity was born in 1825, 1824,
(16:32):
1825, is an enslaved woman.
In what we now know asDansville, kentucky, and in my
own archival work, trying tofind my own family history and
story and discover who I am,this was before the company was
started.
I was on this journey to try andfigure out what
entrepreneurship might look likefor me.
(16:54):
It was very scary I mean it'snot very scary time and I
remember finding my fifth gradegrandmother with the help of my
grandmother, and finding andlearning more about her and
learning about what she musthave lived through as an
enslaved woman.
And learning about what shemust have lived through as an
(17:14):
enslaved woman.
I'm from Kentucky, if yousubtract 150 years from that.
I could only imagine, and Iremember thinking to myself just
having this like very cold butwarm realization, as I learned
that you know, she eventually,after freedom, reached Kentucky.
She reunited her family thathad been separated during the
(17:38):
war, that she ran a boardinghouse as a woman, as like as an
entrepreneurial woman within herown right, that she even had.
We found remaining FreedmenBureau's records with her name
on the accounts.
So I found out a lot about myfifth great-grandmother again,
who was born as an enslavedwoman in 1825.
(18:02):
Fast forward, I couldn't reallygrab with myself what I was
waiting for, what I wasstruggling with, what I was
struggling with, what I couldn'tdo given what she did.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
I mean with all the privileges and advantages and
the capabilities and abilitiesand mobilities that I had.
I knew that if I could find mystory, I could help other people
find their story and I felt asan archivist.
I had a professional skill setto do so, and to do so outside
of the traditional institutions.
So I was an archivist formuseums and universities and
(18:44):
libraries, which is wherearchivists typically work.
This is very commas, but Ithought if anybody could
preserve their story or helpother people preserve their
story, it would have to beoutside of those traditional
realms and that was really scaryto me.
But when I learned about mygreat-grandmother I was just
very inspired, resolved,propelled.
(19:07):
Couldn't I do?
Given what she could do andwhat she could do for herself,
her family and her community, Ifelt like I could do for mine
and so I started the LusterCompany.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Well, chills, I mean Charity's looking down at you
and just saying, yeah, I knew, Iknew.
I'm not surprised.
You know that you have.
She gave you that baton.
You know, and you know how manyof us you know, black women,
entrepreneurs I'm one myselfwith a consulting firm.
It's just like you have thatache in the back of your mind
(19:42):
going.
Something doesn't feel like.
I feel like I'm destined formore you know, and for you to
uncover your own family historyin archival.
You know, digging to find herand to see all the circumstances
, like you said, that she wentthrough and still succeeded and
still has done it.
(20:03):
You know and it's like, yeah,why not you, dominique?
You know why not you?
And I feel like you know, withyour work, which is so powerful,
and again we're going to haveto talk because I love history
and you know, diving into my ownpersonal family and shout out
to Kentucky.
We used to hang out in Paducah,kentucky.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Oh, in the Grand.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Liberians yeah, we my parents were grad students at
Southern Illinois University andtheir little friends they would
go visit on the weekends.
Go to paducah, kentucky.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
yes, let's find out a little bit about paducah I will
say as a shout out, it's alsoone of like the only part, one
of the only parts of kentuckythat's actually in central time
zone and so the whole rest ofthe states in eastern time zone
is one of those just randomsmall things that happened.
But I love Paducah.
I had to spend a summer thereone year when I was in high
(20:55):
school, so my heart, I have ashout out for Paducah.
Same same yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
So, when you have your work like you said, you've
worked with the King Center andthe Getty Foundation and your
own, you know family story.
Your own, you know family story.
What is the?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
thing that just that was so powerful that you
uncovered through your work, youknow, with either client or
with your previous connectionswith those organizations.
I think for me one of the mostpowerful things is the everyday
nature and the everyday, theeveryday nature and the everyday
, when I feel that we havediscovered something incredible
and amazing.
Yet it is just the everydayBlack life, everyday nature of
Black folk, the everyday livingand being and doing of the Miss
(21:50):
Mary Sue's dry cleaner.
And all of a sudden we discoverher papers from the 40s and we
can demonstrate to someone thatyou know, this was a thriving
Black neighborhood back in theday.
You know, those, those momentsreally mean a lot because the I
find that the everyday, theeverydayness of of black life,
(22:15):
as a in in contrast to the, thehighest of achievements or the
highest of tragedies.
Most black folks in in americaactually live somewhere in the
middle.
Uh, not everyone is the amazing, wonderful dr martin luther
king, but not everyone is theamazing, wonderful Dr Martin
(22:39):
Luther King, but not everyone isall the.
I mean we get caught, I think,in our modern society, in the
extremes.
Yes, we do, yes, live kind oftightly in the middle and the
everyday successes, the everydayachievements mean so much to
(22:59):
communities, to find out thatyour great grandmother owned a
beauty salon in the South sideof Chicago that she operated for
40 years, and we'd be able tofind photographs of that in the
newspapers.
Those things mean a lot topeople, mean a lot to the
everyday person, and that in mywork means a lot to me.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Of course, and you know the misconceptions and
misnomers.
You know that African-Americansare conditioned that you don't
know your heritage, you don'tknow where you come from and the
fact that you have these, youknow firsthand articles.
You know that, yes, we exist,we have been existing, just like
you said to your point of youknow the great-grandmother that
(23:43):
owned that beauty shop for 40years.
Here's pictures, here'sphotographic evidence that they
were here.
There is that sense of pride tosay, no, I wasn't alone, I was
here and my ancestors meantsomething and they have done
something.
You know that.
I bet it's just a thrill foryou every time you're working
with a client to just feel likeyou know, like you said, like
(24:05):
that you know Indiana Joneswithout the you know caves, but
just to find and unearth thosemysteries of their people.
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
It's powerful knowing something about just knowing
that who you are and who you areisn't some just bark of random.
I mean we are, but there'ssomething about that
everydayness just to know, like,hey, my grandfather was an
attorney, not mine.
(24:34):
But let's say we discoverrecords and we help someone
trace back and say, hey, no,your grandfather was one of the
first law or barred attorneys inthis state of whatever you know
, like that means something topeople, find those connections
(24:55):
and you find those parallels anddraws it kind of grounds you
and it grounds the family, or atleast I find that it it's, it's
an anchor point that says, uh,in this world that can seem or
feel very chaotic, I come fromsomething that has a strong root
and that alone had tends tohave the power to impact
trajectories and totally changehow people see themselves, and
(25:18):
not as these random floatingobjects of chaos but as
intentionally and wonderfullymade to do and to drive and to
continue your lineage and tounderstand that they are part of
a legacy and to understand thatthey are part of a legacy and
you feel within yourself andyour heart almost a
responsibility to that Like whenyou know you do better, when
(25:41):
you know you do differently, atleast, and you can never say
that I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
That's so powerful, you can't say you didn't know
when it's right thereno-transcript publishing
(26:27):
speaking is to communicate thisvery nuanced idea.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
History is a meticulously curated phenomenon
of power.
It is something that is curatedand shaped and deliberately
chosen, and that we as humansespecially probably since in the
last 500 years, we create a lotof things.
We create a lot of documents,records, papers.
(26:52):
Every church has papers, Everygovernment has papers, Every
school has.
We create a lot ofdocumentation.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yeah, we do.
I was a teacher for 18 years.
We kept a lot of things.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
And that's just one teacher, much less the whole
school of teachers or the wholedistrict, the whole county, all
states, whole nation, all overthe world.
Are all keeping documents andpapers and in records of
everything that happens forevery student, for every college
student, for I mean, for everypatient, I mean.
Just think of the sheer amountof stuff that gets created.
(27:27):
Fraction of it, a sample of asample, ends up in permanent
preservation for what we wouldcall an archive.
So like the 1% of the 1% ofeverything that's created ends
(28:04):
up being preserved through allCivil Rights Movement.
But we have first-personaccounts or documentation of
people who were so on and suchforth throughout history, and so
what ends up in an archive orin a library or in your textbook
usually is referencing a pieceof paper that was preserved and
(28:25):
that preservation was chosen tobe put in that archive by a
human, someone, someone, ahistorian, someone chose to keep
that piece of paper versusdestroying that piece of paper.
That is a choice, however youphrase it, it's a selection that
we call appraisal.
(28:48):
Moving forward, the individualperspectives of the person who
created the document influencethe information that goes into
it.
So, to give you an example, youare the author of your diary.
Your lived experiences willinextricably influence how and
(29:11):
what you write in your diary.
That can be based on where youlive, how old you are, your
family dynamic, your parents,your school.
Like what you write in yourstory or you write a letter to
your grandmother, what you writein that document is influenced
by who you are and theperspectives that you bring to
(29:32):
that world.
Yes, so the object itself isinfluenced, or it's.
The object itself isn't neutralbecause it's not human.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And then their own lens their own perspectives.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Right or wrong, it's just their own lens.
Little Susie's Diaries.
Little Susie's Diary, that iswhat it is.
Diaries Little Suzy's diary,that is what it?
Is, and then, on top of that,the selection of keeping or not
keeping those objects to becomean archive, a history vault, is
(30:07):
also another selection thathappens by somebody else.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
So you have to determine who gets Abraham Cabe
in.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
And they determine whose perspectives, stories,
objects, records, histories,diaries, letters get included in
for the next 500 years andwhose don't.
So I think the thing that I tryto talk about or share about, I
think one of the most importantthings for me is this education
for people that everything isselected, everything is curated,
(30:38):
and so it's not that someobjects are bad and some objects
are right or good or wrong orwhatever, but just understanding
and having that criticalthinking skill of analyzing
everything that you read forperspective, analyze everything
that you read for respect.
You can agree with theperspective, you can disagree
with the perspective.
To me that's irrelevant.
(30:58):
My, my, my call, my, the thingI feel very called to, is
educating people on the criticalthinking around everything that
you see, hear and read.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
that's it actually.
I love it.
I love it, and when I was inthe classroom and with this
educational podcast, it's like,yes, teach your students to be
critical thinkers and to findother voices at that same time
in history, to get thatoverreaching scope of the
attitudes, perspective, of whatwas happening at those points of
time in our history, and that'sso amazing what you're doing
(31:46):
and so important of ourlibraries to still be there in
our museums and how they arebeing selected.
On another level, I feel likeof saying, okay, you have your
archive here, the selection here, but maybe we're going to
decide what gets to be goingforward, you know, in this
museum for people to attend, tosee, or in this library for
(32:07):
people to find.
You know, and that's somethingthat you feel is like a slippery
slope because Because, like yousaid, it depends on the, like
you said, that's the person'sfeeling perspective, but who's
in charge of the selection,right?
Yeah, yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Absolutely.
I would say that, as anarchivist, we tend to look at
history in these very largeslots of time, so you might hear
me reference things like forthe last 500 years, for the last
2 years, 2000 years, or thelast 5,000 years, in the advent
of some of the earliest forms ofwriting and record keeping.
Yeah, humans have beendocumenting or recording their
(32:47):
stories in variety in there andtelling of those stories in
various ways and in variousmodalities, methodologies and
institutions for thousands.
Yes, what I want say is thathistory doesn't repeat itself.
Humans do, people.
(33:10):
Yes, yes, history doesn'ttechnically repeat itself like
history is the storytelling ofsomething that happened in the
past, like it doesn't actuallyrepeat itself.
History is the storytelling ofsomething that happened in the
past.
It doesn't actually repeatitself, though it's a great
phrase.
When faced with similar inputs,humans tend to make the same
outputs time and time again,generation after generation,
because they didn't read it bythe last time, that part, last
(33:34):
time that happened.
Yes, I time that happened.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yes, I just love it.
History doesn't repeat itself.
Humans do.
Girl, you got to trademark that, that's a word.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I think it's true.
I think we, since by using thatphrase we separate ourselves,
our distance, accountability.
It's like history, it's notthis random, mysterious
third-party object humans dowhen faced with similar inputs,
humans tend to create or orchoose similar outputs, as a
previous generation may have.
(34:07):
But what I will add is that, inthat choosing, humans have told
and retold, and retold againthe story of anything over and
over and over again for the past5,000 years.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yes, we're always telling and retelling a story.
Wow, yes, and look at you, thestoryteller extraordinaire of
our history.
Oh my gosh.
Hey, let me tell you, I tellyou, I am just mind blown.
So for our educators, dominique, I need advice.
Our educators, communityleaders and even individuals who
(34:45):
are trying to preserve andamplify our Black stories.
We know we can get our phonesand dah, dah, dah, dah dah.
I've got tons of my kids, youknow.
But what can we do asarchivists of today to preserve?
You know, where do we start?
How do we go about that?
Speaker 2 (35:02):
I would say I usually have two recommendations.
Okay, and it depends on who I'musually speaking with.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
When I'm speaking with our kiddos, for example, or
our younger generation, I wouldoften encourage them to do oral
history projects withgrandmothers, great grandmothers
, and sometimes, depending onthe age appropriateness, parent
or a teacher needs to work withthem on that.
But there's something specialabout your son or daughter
(35:33):
sitting down with your mother orgrandmother right Like so.
Now we're skipping a couple ofgenerations to create some space
and asking them questions abouttheir lives, about their
experiences, about what it waslike growing up.
I have found in my work thatmost people, many people let me
not say most, many people canname all of their grandparents,
(35:55):
like all four of theirgrandparents, or both of their
grandmothers let's usegrandmothers, for example.
They can name both of theirgrandmothers and there are
always circumstances throughadoption or there's family
challenges, where that may notbe the case.
That's not necessarily what I'mreferencing here.
What I'm referencing here is afamily dynamic in which an
individual could theoreticallyname the first name of their
(36:18):
grandmothers, but that sameindividual might struggle to
name all four of their greatgrandmothers, certainly will
struggle to name all eight oftheir great grandmothers.
Yes, and so it goes on and on,and particularly women in our
families, their names get lostFirst name, first name and
(36:39):
typically their maiden name getslost and they just become known
as Grandma, or they just becomeknown as Meemaw was named Edna
and Edna used to be down, youknow, and was a straight A
student at HBCU that she was oneof the first people to register
(37:02):
as a Black individual, or at aPWI where she was first to
register as a Black individual,or she was the first person to
do this, or she traveled here.
She was the first in her familyto fly on a plane to Europe and
she gallivanted around Europelooking at art for a summer.
You might never know that aboutGrandma because you only know
her as Grandma.
Grandma yeah, a life and astory and a name and a first
(37:25):
name, and that can often getlost.
And I think that for our youngercommunities, honestly, your
family might be cooler than youthink they are.
They may have done some reallycool things before you came
along.
And having that conversationalpoint with them and recording it
it doesn't have to beproduction.
(37:47):
It doesn't have to be.
I mean, I know we use a lot ofthe lights and the sound and I
know we're in the era of socialmedia, but it doesn't have to be
all about that.
It could literally just be thevoice memo on your phone at the
kitchen table while grandma'scooking the mac and cheese that
you are not allowed to learn arecipe.
That could be it.
Just get to enroll them and then, in reverse, I think it does
(38:07):
something magical for our eldersto know that someone is asking
them, that someone, for thefirst time in years, has cared
enough to ask them questions.
And then one question becomesanother question, and then you
get to the sassy story and thenaunt, so-and-so is like no,
that's not what happened.
And then it becomes a thing andit really, I think it uplifts
(38:31):
and honors our elders and theyfind a warm place in their heart
as well because they'reexperiencing and sharing and
passing down this wisdom.
You have your youngergeneration who gets to absorb
and find joy in grounding inthat story.
It may not be for everyone, butthat's usually an advice or a
methodology that I have found tobe very successful and
(38:54):
beneficial for all involved.
The other thing that I oftenrecommend is usually to take a
classic photo project, so youhave your photographs.
Maybe a parent or an elder isthe keeper.
There's usually like a keeperof the family history and
(39:15):
usually people know who that isand they'll have photos.
They'll have early 1900s photos, they'll have things, but
typically all that material isundocumented.
Meaning if I flip on the backof that photo as an archivist,
if I flip on the back of thatphoto.
I don't have any names or anyrecord of who's in the photo.
Flip on the back of that photo.
(39:36):
I don't have any names or anyrecord of who's in the photo.
Thereby you actually still losethe history, by me as the
historian, as the archivist, asa librarian.
Once you separate the objectfrom the family historian, that
tacit knowledge gets broken.
So a really important strategyfor your own family legacy
keeping is to simply write itdown.
Write it down, everybody isright.
(39:59):
Who's related to who?
If you have older photographs,flip them over on the back
gently and write the names ofwho's in the photo and when the
photo was taken.
Those are the two mostimportant pieces of data.
Usually, as an archivist willjust give professional secret
names, dates and location.
We can usually figure out therest from there.
(40:20):
But if you preserve the name,the date and potentially where
one graph was taken, you can doso much for your own family
legacy wow, oh, dominique, Itell you I'm gonna have to go
call my mom after this.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Be like, ok, I need to see those pictures, and you
know, because she'll always go.
What I want to know, you know,and that will happen.
But again, you know, to remaincurious because, you're right,
the generations right here needto hear from our elders.
You know, before.
You know, yeah, before they goand before we leave, because
(40:55):
this is just such a eye openingconversation.
So thank you so much for havingthis with me, dominique, before
we go.
How can folks find you?
To learn more about your workand, you know, be a potential
client of your work?
You know, because I'm about tobe calling you, too, my dear,
(41:15):
because we got a lot in thisafrican diaspora family that I
have, but that's a whole, notherepisode.
So where can we find you?
Speaker 2 (41:22):
daphne, but somewhere , pretty much everywhere that I
could find at the luster company, um.
So the luster companycom oninstagram, at the luster company
on facebook, at the lustercompany company LinkedIn,
carrier pigeon, like pretty muchanywhere, and I would say, you
know, we, we have a variety ofdifferent levels of things that
(41:47):
we can help with.
So I mean, if you're curious atall, please reach out.
Um, we, we'd be happy to tohelp learn more about your
family and what's going on, andor your organization, what's
going on, see if we can help.
Or even if it's just havingconversation, it doesn't always
have to, you know, noteverything has to result in
client work.
(42:08):
Like I said, for me, I reallylove educating people about how
this works and that educationallens of saying, hey, this is how
, this is that critical thinkingcomponent of how history is
made, and so you know, if you'reever interested in a
conversation, please let us know.
If any of this resonates andyou're interested in any of the
work.
Actually, I'm talking about itand writing about it a little
(42:30):
bit more of a book coming out,or at least a chapter in a book
coming out in June in which Italk a little bit about this.
It's going to be called BraveWomen at Work, lessons and
Letting Go.
So I think June 16th, june 14th, something like that, the book
will be coming out, and I talkmore about this process in
detail.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
So I cannot wait to order your book.
Oh, my goodness.
Thank you so much, dominique,and and everyone listening to
the Culture Curriculum Chatpodcast, I will see you here
same time next week.
Thank you, dominique, forjoining us.
Thank you so much for having me.
Hello again, welcome to the Cultural Curriculum Chat
Podcast.
I'm your host, Jeba Edmonds,and I'm so excited to have in
the guest chair today astoryteller, tedx speaker,
archivist, ms Dominique Luster.
But before we dive into ourconversation today, I want to
tell you more about our show.
(00:21):
Our show is dedicated toshowcase and share multicultural
educational practices andstrategies for you, educators
and community members who arestriving to promote and create
positive change.
Now a little bit morebackground on Dominique before
we jump into our conversationtoday.
(00:43):
Dominique Luster is a dedicatedstoryteller and advocate whose
primary mission is to illuminatethe rich narratives of the
Black diaspora.
With over a decade ofexperience in cultural heritage
and memory, she expertlynavigates the crossroads of
history and advocacy.
(01:04):
Formerly the Teenie HarrisArchivist at the Carnegie Museum
of Art, dominique founded theLuster Company in 2021,
channeling her passion intoensuring that Black stories are
not only preserved butcelebrated.
Her work is more than justresearch, but celebrated.
(01:27):
Her work is more than justresearch.
It's a vibrant tapestry wovenwith dynamic storytelling and a
profound commitment to justice.
Dominique has establishedherself as a fervent champion of
Black-centered narratives,combining her research prowess
with the art of narrativebuilding to create platforms
that elevate marginalized voices.
Her consulting services havebeen sought after by prestigious
(01:51):
institutions, including theKing Center, the J Paul Getty
Foundation and Denver PublicLibrary, alongside numerous
small and large nonprofits.
Through the Luster Company,dominique reveals hidden stories
, empowering individuals andorganizations to amplify the
voices of the Black community.
(02:13):
In 2018, her TED Talk on thetransformative power of archives
captivated a global audience,leading to features on popular
podcasts such as Archives inContext and Brave Women at Work.
Dominique is also asought-after keynote speaker at
(02:33):
Women's Leadership Conferences,where her impactful messages
resonates deeply with thosestriving to create a more
inclusive historical narrative.
Take a listen to me and Domininclusive historical narrative.
Take a listen to me andDominique's conversation.
(02:59):
Hello again, welcome to thecultural competition.
Hello again, welcome to theCultural Curriculum Chat Podcast
.
I'm your host, jeba Edmonds,and I am so excited to have in
the guest chair today astoryteller, tedx speaker,
archivist, ms Dominique Luster.
(03:28):
But before we dive into ourconversation today, I want to
tell you more about our show.
Our show is dedicated toshowcase and share multicultural
educational practices andstrategies for you, educators
and community members who arestriving to promote and create
positive change.
Now a little bit morebackground on Dominique before
we jump into our conversationtoday.
Dominique Lester is a dedicatedstoryteller and advocate whose
(03:50):
primary mission is to illuminatethe rich narratives of the
Black diaspora.
With over a decade ofexperience in cultural heritage
and memory, she expertlynavigates the crossroads of
history and advocacy.
Formerly the Teenie HarrisArchivist at the Carnegie Museum
(04:13):
of Art, dominique founded theLuster Company in 2021,
channeling her passion intoensuring that Black stories are
not only preserved butcelebrated.
Her work is more than justresearch it's a vibrant tapestry
woven with dynamic storytellingand a profound commitment to
(04:35):
justice.
Dominique has establishedherself as a fervent champion of
Black-centered narratives,combining her research prowess
with the art of narrativebuilding to create platforms
that elevate marginalized voices.
(04:55):
Her consulting services havebeen sought after by prestigious
institutions, including theKing Center, the J Paul Getty
Foundation and Denver PublicLibrary, alongside numerous
small and large nonprofits.
Through the Luster Company,dominique reveals hidden stories
, empowering individuals andorganizations to amplify the
(05:19):
voices of the Black community.
In 2018, her TED Talk on thetransformative power of archives
captivated a global audience,leading to features on popular
podcasts such as Archives inContext and Brave Women at Work.
Dominique is also asought-after keynote speaker at
(05:43):
Women's Leadership Conferences,where her impactful messages
resonates deeply with thosestriving to create a more
inclusive historical narrative.
Now join me in listening to ourimpactful conversation on the
Cultural Curriculum Chat podcast.
Take a listen to me andDominique's conversation.
(06:05):
All right, welcome back,educators, to the Cultural
Curriculum Chat Podcast.
I'm Jeva Edmonds sitting withthe uncomfortable Dominique
(06:25):
Luster today.
She is, oh, I can't tell youhow excited I am to have her on
our podcast friends.
I found her on TEDx, just youknow, looking through
multicultural,culture-responsive, you know
strategies, especially for useducators, and she has it beat.
(06:45):
She talks about how to searchfor those critical pieces of
history that people are tryingto be erased.
And again, how kismet is thisinterview this time in our
history?
So, dominique, welcome to theshow.
We're so excited to have youhere with us today.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Oh my gosh, thank you so much for inviting me, for
allowing me to be here andsharing space with you.
This is the best part of my day.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
I'm so excited oh thank you, let's just get into
it.
You know your journey intoarchival work is so inspiring to
archival work is so inspiring,so let's just, you know, kind of
break it down for our guests sofar, our podcast listeners what
does archival work look like,before we talk about your
passion?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Absolutely so I kind of akin.
My particular flavor ofarchival work is kind of like
the joining between like HarrietTubman meets Indiana Jones.
We kind of go investigatingBlack history and all of these.
I mean we don't really likedive into caves and whatnot, but
we do go explore attics anddates, looking for history and
(08:00):
documents, and so that's myparticular flavor of archival
work.
But in general archivists arekind of the preservers and
keepers of historic documents,photographs, cookbooks, family
Bibles.
There's all kinds of documentsand things that tell the story
of who we are as people, ofsocieties, of civilization, and
(08:23):
archivists preserve those things, various things, so that they
can be available for the future,for other people, for new
generations, scholars, research,so that we can look back on
those documents and say whathappened.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Love that.
Okay.
So now, what has sparked yourpassion for preserving these and
celebrating these Blacknarratives?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
You know it's interesting.
I am from Kentucky.
Sometimes it comes out in myaccent just a little bit, but
sometimes so if you catch me,slip a word here and there, it's
all good.
So I'm from Kentucky and myfamily kind of has a way, I
think, of lots of Black families.
Like we just tell stories.
(09:07):
You know how we talk thecookout, easter, thanksgiving,
you all sit around this tableand you go hear about this story
and you grow up hearing thesestories and grow up hearing
about this time or that time orthis person or that person.
But when I got to university,still in Kentucky, was when I
(09:29):
started working at a universitylibrary in the archives and
special collections on campus,mostly because I needed a campus
job.
Don't get it twisted, I justthink it wasn't some, like I've
always.
Actually I was the kid whoworked in the library, like I
was that kid growing up.
I was always reading books, butit wasn't this, I just want to
(09:51):
be an archivist.
I didn't even know what thatwas.
I just needed a job, to be veryhonest.
And at the time the campuslibrary was paying $15 an hour,
which not trying to date myself,but at that time Big money $15
an hour was big money for astudent job on campus where you
(10:12):
could either work in the dininghall or you can work in tech
services, or you can work in thelibrary at the desk Right so,
but I, um, I was working in aspecial collection which I
didn't know, the main libraryversus the art library versus I
didn't know.
I was just like this is wherethey told me to show up to work
but sit at this desk and get my$15 an hour and that is
(10:34):
absolutely not what it was.
It was actually kind of anintro archiving program, which
again didn't know what that was,which, again, didn't know what
that was.
And the manager of the programwas this amazing, wonderful,
(10:54):
just phenomenal Black woman whonurtured and tutored all these
students into taking the skillsthat they had in whatever major
they were in, and applying it tohistoric objects.
So, for example, I was actuallya theater major in college.
I know wild, given that I'm anarchivist now.
I was a theater major incollege and she showed me how to
apply playbill collections.
(11:14):
Like you know, when you go to aBroadway show, they give you
the playbill and it shows youall the different information
about the actors and the set andthe design and all that stuff.
The university had a collectionof like hundreds of them and
they were from like the 1910s,1920s, 1940s, 1970s.
They were historic in my mind.
And so she was like, yeah, youhave this expertise in this one
(11:38):
discipline, right, this academicdiscipline you're studying to
be a theater major.
Did you know that pretty muchany discipline you could
possibly think of has a historicpast?
Wow, so she tried it for all ofus.
I happen to be a theater major,but there were students who
were pre-med, there werestudents who were in
architecture and engineering,there were students from all
kinds of disciplines, and shewould find the historic avenue
(12:03):
of all of our various interests,one by one, and she would
nurture each individual studentin whatever they were already
majoring in.
She wasn't trying to convinceanyone to become an archivist,
she was just saying hey, you'repre-med, are you interested in
the history of medicine?
Because we got stuff about that.
Hey, you're an engineeringstudent, are you interested in
(12:24):
the history of?
I don't know?
I don't know engineering.
And so she just nurtured thatinterest so that it just kind of
planted these depth roots ineach of us.
Fast forward.
I remember she brought me inher office one day and I'm
pretty sure it was somethingthat I was doing at work and she
(12:46):
goes you seem to really likethis what we're doing.
You seem to really like this.
Did you know that this is athing?
Like, did you know that thereare those of us out here with
like master's degrees and PhDsthat do this for a living?
Like, has this ever occurred toyou that there's a thing called
library school?
And I was like, no, that is nota real word.
I know you made that one up.
(13:08):
It wasn't.
It was a real thing.
But honestly, my path intobecoming an archivist was
semi-circumstantial but alsointentionally divined and driven
right.
Intentionally divined anddriven right Like it was
(13:28):
circumstances that may havebrought me to the library, but I
do believe that people wereintentionally placed at that
library Educators, teachers,mentors, black women were
intentionally placed in thatlibrary to kind of nurture that
path forward for me.
And so I went from a theatercollection to a theater
collection about, specificallyabout Black history, towards and
(13:49):
purely Black history collection.
I mean, she just kept goingdeeper and deeper and deeper,
realizing that I had thisnatural love for history and for
Black history, and she justkept giving me more and more
opportunities to explore thatinterest until eventually I went
to library school and have beendoing this work ever since.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
This is amazing and it took that educator to spark
and make those connections.
Theater major Clay Bills.
Like who wouldn't think youknow?
Like, oh, people discard ClayBills after you know they go to
a Broadway performance.
You know, I keep all of minewhen we go to you know, my
husband and I go to Broadway.
Oh, I grew up dancing, so nowonder you are so comfortable on
(14:32):
that TEDx stage.
Honey, on stage, you are atheater major.
Okay, that makes so much sense.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Well, I don't know about that.
I don't know because actually,I was a lighting design student,
not a student Right?
So my undergraduate degree isin lighting design and
technology.
It's about putting can lightingcans in the air and hanging
electrics.
That's actually what my degreeis in, not in performing or
(15:03):
stage work.
I will say, though, that youknow you can stand on a stage,
and there is a skill in beingable to project and to speak
with your full diaphragm.
These skills are true, but whatI learned is that you know, as
(15:26):
a lighting designer, as alighting technician, I need to
be able to illuminate thisindividual from the back of the
house, so that the person in thevery back can see, so that the
person on the sides can see, sothat you know you capture all
their good angles, for lack of abetter word, but standing on
the stage and speaking to ussold-out girls.
That was the Lord in a prayer.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
He was there for you because you could have fooled me
.
You were just glad and glad andon that stage.
So I love hearing this.
Thank you, Dominique.
So that passion, that spark oflearning our histories and Black
narratives, how did that leadto you to found your company,
the Luster Company?
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So I, my company, is called the Luster Company, sure,
which is my last name, but Ididn't actually name my company
after myself, which is a slightmisnomer.
I named it after my fifthgreat-grandmother.
I named her after my fifthgreat-grandmother.
Her first name was Charity, andCharity was born in 1825, 1824,
(16:32):
1825, is an enslaved woman.
In what we now know asDansville, kentucky, and in my
own archival work, trying tofind my own family history and
story and discover who I am,this was before the company was
started.
I was on this journey to try andfigure out what
entrepreneurship might look likefor me.
(16:54):
It was very scary I mean it'snot very scary time and I
remember finding my fifth gradegrandmother with the help of my
grandmother, and finding andlearning more about her and
learning about what she musthave lived through as an
enslaved woman.
And learning about what shemust have lived through as an
(17:14):
enslaved woman.
I'm from Kentucky, if yousubtract 150 years from that.
I could only imagine, and Iremember thinking to myself just
having this like very cold butwarm realization, as I learned
that you know, she eventually,after freedom, reached Kentucky.
She reunited her family thathad been separated during the
(17:38):
war, that she ran a boardinghouse as a woman, as like as an
entrepreneurial woman within herown right, that she even had.
We found remaining FreedmenBureau's records with her name
on the accounts.
So I found out a lot about myfifth great-grandmother again,
who was born as an enslavedwoman in 1825.
(18:02):
Fast forward, I couldn't reallygrab with myself what I was
waiting for, what I wasstruggling with, what I was
struggling with, what I couldn'tdo given what she did.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
I mean with all the privileges and advantages and
the capabilities and abilitiesand mobilities that I had.
I knew that if I could find mystory, I could help other people
find their story and I felt asan archivist.
I had a professional skill setto do so, and to do so outside
of the traditional institutions.
So I was an archivist formuseums and universities and
(18:44):
libraries, which is wherearchivists typically work.
This is very commas, but Ithought if anybody could
preserve their story or helpother people preserve their
story, it would have to beoutside of those traditional
realms and that was really scaryto me.
But when I learned about mygreat-grandmother I was just
very inspired, resolved,propelled.
(19:07):
Couldn't I do?
Given what she could do andwhat she could do for herself,
her family and her community, Ifelt like I could do for mine
and so I started the LusterCompany.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Well, chills, I mean Charity's looking down at you
and just saying, yeah, I knew, Iknew.
I'm not surprised.
You know that you have.
She gave you that baton.
You know, and you know how manyof us you know, black women,
entrepreneurs I'm one myselfwith a consulting firm.
It's just like you have thatache in the back of your mind
(19:42):
going.
Something doesn't feel like.
I feel like I'm destined formore you know, and for you to
uncover your own family historyin archival.
You know, digging to find herand to see all the circumstances
, like you said, that she wentthrough and still succeeded and
still has done it.
(20:03):
You know and it's like, yeah,why not you, dominique?
You know why not you?
And I feel like you know, withyour work, which is so powerful,
and again we're going to haveto talk because I love history
and you know, diving into my ownpersonal family and shout out
to Kentucky.
We used to hang out in Paducah,kentucky.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Oh, in the Grand.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Liberians yeah, we my parents were grad students at
Southern Illinois University andtheir little friends they would
go visit on the weekends.
Go to paducah, kentucky.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
yes, let's find out a little bit about paducah I will
say as a shout out, it's alsoone of like the only part, one
of the only parts of kentuckythat's actually in central time
zone and so the whole rest ofthe states in eastern time zone
is one of those just randomsmall things that happened.
But I love Paducah.
I had to spend a summer thereone year when I was in high
(20:55):
school, so my heart, I have ashout out for Paducah.
Same same yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
So, when you have your work like you said, you've
worked with the King Center andthe Getty Foundation and your
own, you know family story.
Your own, you know family story.
What is the?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
thing that just that was so powerful that you
uncovered through your work, youknow, with either client or
with your previous connectionswith those organizations.
I think for me one of the mostpowerful things is the everyday
nature and the everyday, theeveryday nature and the everyday
, when I feel that we havediscovered something incredible
and amazing.
Yet it is just the everydayBlack life, everyday nature of
Black folk, the everyday livingand being and doing of the Miss
(21:50):
Mary Sue's dry cleaner.
And all of a sudden we discoverher papers from the 40s and we
can demonstrate to someone thatyou know, this was a thriving
Black neighborhood back in theday.
You know, those, those momentsreally mean a lot because the I
find that the everyday, theeverydayness of of black life,
(22:15):
as a in in contrast to the, thehighest of achievements or the
highest of tragedies.
Most black folks in in americaactually live somewhere in the
middle.
Uh, not everyone is the amazing, wonderful dr martin luther
king, but not everyone is theamazing, wonderful Dr Martin
(22:39):
Luther King, but not everyone isall the.
I mean we get caught, I think,in our modern society, in the
extremes.
Yes, we do, yes, live kind oftightly in the middle and the
everyday successes, the everydayachievements mean so much to
(22:59):
communities, to find out thatyour great grandmother owned a
beauty salon in the South sideof Chicago that she operated for
40 years, and we'd be able tofind photographs of that in the
newspapers.
Those things mean a lot topeople, mean a lot to the
everyday person, and that in mywork means a lot to me.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Of course, and you know the misconceptions and
misnomers.
You know that African-Americansare conditioned that you don't
know your heritage, you don'tknow where you come from and the
fact that you have these, youknow firsthand articles.
You know that, yes, we exist,we have been existing, just like
you said to your point of youknow the great-grandmother that
(23:43):
owned that beauty shop for 40years.
Here's pictures, here'sphotographic evidence that they
were here.
There is that sense of pride tosay, no, I wasn't alone, I was
here and my ancestors meantsomething and they have done
something.
You know that.
I bet it's just a thrill foryou every time you're working
with a client to just feel likeyou know, like you said, like
(24:05):
that you know Indiana Joneswithout the you know caves, but
just to find and unearth thosemysteries of their people.
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
It's powerful knowing something about just knowing
that who you are and who you areisn't some just bark of random.
I mean we are, but there'ssomething about that
everydayness just to know, like,hey, my grandfather was an
attorney, not mine.
(24:34):
But let's say we discoverrecords and we help someone
trace back and say, hey, no,your grandfather was one of the
first law or barred attorneys inthis state of whatever you know
, like that means something topeople, find those connections
(24:55):
and you find those parallels anddraws it kind of grounds you
and it grounds the family, or atleast I find that it it's, it's
an anchor point that says, uh,in this world that can seem or
feel very chaotic, I come fromsomething that has a strong root
and that alone had tends tohave the power to impact
trajectories and totally changehow people see themselves, and
(25:18):
not as these random floatingobjects of chaos but as
intentionally and wonderfullymade to do and to drive and to
continue your lineage and tounderstand that they are part of
a legacy and to understand thatthey are part of a legacy and
you feel within yourself andyour heart almost a
responsibility to that Like whenyou know you do better, when
(25:41):
you know you do differently, atleast, and you can never say
that I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
That's so powerful, you can't say you didn't know
when it's right thereno-transcript publishing
(26:27):
speaking is to communicate thisvery nuanced idea.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
History is a meticulously curated phenomenon
of power.
It is something that is curatedand shaped and deliberately
chosen, and that we as humansespecially probably since in the
last 500 years, we create a lotof things.
We create a lot of documents,records, papers.
(26:52):
Every church has papers, Everygovernment has papers, Every
school has.
We create a lot ofdocumentation.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yeah, we do.
I was a teacher for 18 years.
We kept a lot of things.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
And that's just one teacher, much less the whole
school of teachers or the wholedistrict, the whole county, all
states, whole nation, all overthe world.
Are all keeping documents andpapers and in records of
everything that happens forevery student, for every college
student, for I mean, for everypatient, I mean.
Just think of the sheer amountof stuff that gets created.
(27:27):
Fraction of it, a sample of asample, ends up in permanent
preservation for what we wouldcall an archive.
So like the 1% of the 1% ofeverything that's created ends
(28:04):
up being preserved through allCivil Rights Movement.
But we have first-personaccounts or documentation of
people who were so on and suchforth throughout history, and so
what ends up in an archive orin a library or in your textbook
usually is referencing a pieceof paper that was preserved and
(28:25):
that preservation was chosen tobe put in that archive by a
human, someone, someone, ahistorian, someone chose to keep
that piece of paper versusdestroying that piece of paper.
That is a choice, however youphrase it, it's a selection that
we call appraisal.
(28:48):
Moving forward, the individualperspectives of the person who
created the document influencethe information that goes into
it.
So, to give you an example, youare the author of your diary.
Your lived experiences willinextricably influence how and
(29:11):
what you write in your diary.
That can be based on where youlive, how old you are, your
family dynamic, your parents,your school.
Like what you write in yourstory or you write a letter to
your grandmother, what you writein that document is influenced
by who you are and theperspectives that you bring to
(29:32):
that world.
Yes, so the object itself isinfluenced, or it's.
The object itself isn't neutralbecause it's not human.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And then their own lens their own perspectives.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Right or wrong, it's just their own lens.
Little Susie's Diaries.
Little Susie's Diary, that iswhat it is.
Diaries Little Suzy's diary,that is what it?
Is, and then, on top of that,the selection of keeping or not
keeping those objects to becomean archive, a history vault, is
(30:07):
also another selection thathappens by somebody else.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
So you have to determine who gets Abraham Cabe
in.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
And they determine whose perspectives, stories,
objects, records, histories,diaries, letters get included in
for the next 500 years andwhose don't.
So I think the thing that I tryto talk about or share about, I
think one of the most importantthings for me is this education
for people that everything isselected, everything is curated,
(30:38):
and so it's not that someobjects are bad and some objects
are right or good or wrong orwhatever, but just understanding
and having that criticalthinking skill of analyzing
everything that you read forperspective, analyze everything
that you read for respect.
You can agree with theperspective, you can disagree
with the perspective.
To me that's irrelevant.
(30:58):
My, my, my call, my, the thingI feel very called to, is
educating people on the criticalthinking around everything that
you see, hear and read.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
that's it actually.
I love it.
I love it, and when I was inthe classroom and with this
educational podcast, it's like,yes, teach your students to be
critical thinkers and to findother voices at that same time
in history, to get thatoverreaching scope of the
attitudes, perspective, of whatwas happening at those points of
time in our history, and that'sso amazing what you're doing
(31:46):
and so important of ourlibraries to still be there in
our museums and how they arebeing selected.
On another level, I feel likeof saying, okay, you have your
archive here, the selection here, but maybe we're going to
decide what gets to be goingforward, you know, in this
museum for people to attend, tosee, or in this library for
(32:07):
people to find.
You know, and that's somethingthat you feel is like a slippery
slope because Because, like yousaid, it depends on the, like
you said, that's the person'sfeeling perspective, but who's
in charge of the selection,right?
Yeah, yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Absolutely.
I would say that, as anarchivist, we tend to look at
history in these very largeslots of time, so you might hear
me reference things like forthe last 500 years, for the last
2 years, 2000 years, or thelast 5,000 years, in the advent
of some of the earliest forms ofwriting and record keeping.
Yeah, humans have beendocumenting or recording their
(32:47):
stories in variety in there andtelling of those stories in
various ways and in variousmodalities, methodologies and
institutions for thousands.
Yes, what I want say is thathistory doesn't repeat itself.
Humans do, people.
(33:10):
Yes, yes, history doesn'ttechnically repeat itself like
history is the storytelling ofsomething that happened in the
past, like it doesn't actuallyrepeat itself.
History is the storytelling ofsomething that happened in the
past.
It doesn't actually repeatitself, though it's a great
phrase.
When faced with similar inputs,humans tend to make the same
outputs time and time again,generation after generation,
because they didn't read it bythe last time, that part, last
(33:34):
time that happened.
Yes, I time that happened.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yes, I just love it.
History doesn't repeat itself.
Humans do.
Girl, you got to trademark that, that's a word.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I think it's true.
I think we, since by using thatphrase we separate ourselves,
our distance, accountability.
It's like history, it's notthis random, mysterious
third-party object humans dowhen faced with similar inputs,
humans tend to create or orchoose similar outputs, as a
previous generation may have.
(34:07):
But what I will add is that, inthat choosing, humans have told
and retold, and retold againthe story of anything over and
over and over again for the past5,000 years.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yes, we're always telling and retelling a story.
Wow, yes, and look at you, thestoryteller extraordinaire of
our history.
Oh my gosh.
Hey, let me tell you, I tellyou, I am just mind blown.
So for our educators, dominique, I need advice.
Our educators, communityleaders and even individuals who
(34:45):
are trying to preserve andamplify our Black stories.
We know we can get our phonesand dah, dah, dah, dah dah.
I've got tons of my kids, youknow.
But what can we do asarchivists of today to preserve?
You know, where do we start?
How do we go about that?
Speaker 2 (35:02):
I would say I usually have two recommendations.
Okay, and it depends on who I'musually speaking with.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
When I'm speaking with our kiddos, for example, or
our younger generation, I wouldoften encourage them to do oral
history projects withgrandmothers, great grandmothers
, and sometimes, depending onthe age appropriateness, parent
or a teacher needs to work withthem on that.
But there's something specialabout your son or daughter
(35:33):
sitting down with your mother orgrandmother right Like so.
Now we're skipping a couple ofgenerations to create some space
and asking them questions abouttheir lives, about their
experiences, about what it waslike growing up.
I have found in my work thatmost people, many people let me
not say most, many people canname all of their grandparents,
(35:55):
like all four of theirgrandparents, or both of their
grandmothers let's usegrandmothers, for example.
They can name both of theirgrandmothers and there are
always circumstances throughadoption or there's family
challenges, where that may notbe the case.
That's not necessarily what I'mreferencing here.
What I'm referencing here is afamily dynamic in which an
individual could theoreticallyname the first name of their
(36:18):
grandmothers, but that sameindividual might struggle to
name all four of their greatgrandmothers, certainly will
struggle to name all eight oftheir great grandmothers.
Yes, and so it goes on and on,and particularly women in our
families, their names get lostFirst name, first name and
(36:39):
typically their maiden name getslost and they just become known
as Grandma, or they just becomeknown as Meemaw was named Edna
and Edna used to be down, youknow, and was a straight A
student at HBCU that she was oneof the first people to register
(37:02):
as a Black individual, or at aPWI where she was first to
register as a Black individual,or she was the first person to
do this, or she traveled here.
She was the first in her familyto fly on a plane to Europe and
she gallivanted around Europelooking at art for a summer.
You might never know that aboutGrandma because you only know
her as Grandma.
Grandma yeah, a life and astory and a name and a first
(37:25):
name, and that can often getlost.
And I think that for our youngercommunities, honestly, your
family might be cooler than youthink they are.
They may have done some reallycool things before you came
along.
And having that conversationalpoint with them and recording it
it doesn't have to beproduction.
(37:47):
It doesn't have to be.
I mean, I know we use a lot ofthe lights and the sound and I
know we're in the era of socialmedia, but it doesn't have to be
all about that.
It could literally just be thevoice memo on your phone at the
kitchen table while grandma'scooking the mac and cheese that
you are not allowed to learn arecipe.
That could be it.
Just get to enroll them and then, in reverse, I think it does
(38:07):
something magical for our eldersto know that someone is asking
them, that someone, for thefirst time in years, has cared
enough to ask them questions.
And then one question becomesanother question, and then you
get to the sassy story and thenaunt, so-and-so is like no,
that's not what happened.
And then it becomes a thing andit really, I think it uplifts
(38:31):
and honors our elders and theyfind a warm place in their heart
as well because they'reexperiencing and sharing and
passing down this wisdom.
You have your youngergeneration who gets to absorb
and find joy in grounding inthat story.
It may not be for everyone, butthat's usually an advice or a
methodology that I have found tobe very successful and
(38:54):
beneficial for all involved.
The other thing that I oftenrecommend is usually to take a
classic photo project, so youhave your photographs.
Maybe a parent or an elder isthe keeper.
There's usually like a keeperof the family history and
(39:15):
usually people know who that isand they'll have photos.
They'll have early 1900s photos, they'll have things, but
typically all that material isundocumented.
Meaning if I flip on the backof that photo as an archivist,
if I flip on the back of thatphoto.
I don't have any names or anyrecord of who's in the photo.
Flip on the back of that photo.
(39:36):
I don't have any names or anyrecord of who's in the photo.
Thereby you actually still losethe history, by me as the
historian, as the archivist, asa librarian.
Once you separate the objectfrom the family historian, that
tacit knowledge gets broken.
So a really important strategyfor your own family legacy
keeping is to simply write itdown.
Write it down, everybody isright.
(39:59):
Who's related to who?
If you have older photographs,flip them over on the back
gently and write the names ofwho's in the photo and when the
photo was taken.
Those are the two mostimportant pieces of data.
Usually, as an archivist willjust give professional secret
names, dates and location.
We can usually figure out therest from there.
(40:20):
But if you preserve the name,the date and potentially where
one graph was taken, you can doso much for your own family
legacy wow, oh, dominique, Itell you I'm gonna have to go
call my mom after this.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Be like, ok, I need to see those pictures, and you
know, because she'll always go.
What I want to know, you know,and that will happen.
But again, you know, to remaincurious because, you're right,
the generations right here needto hear from our elders.
You know, before.
You know, yeah, before they goand before we leave, because
(40:55):
this is just such a eye openingconversation.
So thank you so much for havingthis with me, dominique, before
we go.
How can folks find you?
To learn more about your workand, you know, be a potential
client of your work?
You know, because I'm about tobe calling you, too, my dear,
(41:15):
because we got a lot in thisafrican diaspora family that I
have, but that's a whole, notherepisode.
So where can we find you?
Speaker 2 (41:22):
daphne, but somewhere , pretty much everywhere that I
could find at the luster company, um.
So the luster companycom oninstagram, at the luster company
on facebook, at the lustercompany company LinkedIn,
carrier pigeon, like pretty muchanywhere, and I would say, you
know, we, we have a variety ofdifferent levels of things that
(41:47):
we can help with.
So I mean, if you're curious atall, please reach out.
Um, we, we'd be happy to tohelp learn more about your
family and what's going on, andor your organization, what's
going on, see if we can help.
Or even if it's just havingconversation, it doesn't always
have to, you know, noteverything has to result in
client work.
(42:08):
Like I said, for me, I reallylove educating people about how
this works and that educationallens of saying, hey, this is how
, this is that critical thinkingcomponent of how history is
made, and so you know, if you'reever interested in a
conversation, please let us know.
If any of this resonates andyou're interested in any of the
work.
Actually, I'm talking about itand writing about it a little
(42:30):
bit more of a book coming out,or at least a chapter in a book
coming out in June in which Italk a little bit about this.
It's going to be called BraveWomen at Work, lessons and
Letting Go.
So I think June 16th, june 14th, something like that, the book
will be coming out, and I talkmore about this process in
detail.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
So I cannot wait to order your book.
Oh, my goodness.
Thank you so much, dominique,and and everyone listening to
the Culture Curriculum Chatpodcast, I will see you here
same time next week.
Thank you, dominique, forjoining us.
Thank you so much for having me.
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