February 22, 2024 âą 42 mins
Summary Tab Nkere-Anyay, a senior level music executive at BMG, shares his journey from being a songwriter to an executive in the music industry. He discusses the impact of Frank Ocean on his decision to become an executive and the importance of preserving the essence of African music. Tab emphasizes the need for diversity and inclusion in the industry and the importance of ownership for black artists. He also discusses the changing definition of stardom in the digital age and the influence of streaming platforms. Tab concludes by sharing three seeds of culture for the stewards of the industry moving forward. The conversation explores the importance of individuality, the global impact of music, treating each other well, and maintaining the integrity of the African diaspora. Takeaways The importance of preserving the essence of African music and ensuring that artists from the continent are given credit and control over their own music. The need for diversity and inclusion in the music industry, with a focus on having internal advocates who understand and represent different cultures and perspectives. The changing definition of stardom in the digital age, with an emphasis on authenticity, individuality, and the ability to connect with audiences. Nurture and embrace your individuality. Recognize the global impact of music and the importance of understanding different cultures. Promote peace and treat each other well. Maintain the integrity of the African diaspora and empower those within the culture. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 01:23 Shift from Creative to Executive 05:08 The Impact of Frank Ocean 09:33 The Emerging Global Influence of Africa 13:13 Preserving the Essence of African Music 16:23 Diversity and Inclusion in the Music Business 19:33 Equity and Ownership in the Industry 22:19 Defining Stardom in the Digital Age 29:17 The Impact of Daniel Ek and LA Reid 34:56 Shifting Music Culture and the Rise of Streaming 37:12 Three Seeds for the Stewards of Culture 37:47 Planting Seeds of Individuality 38:16 The Global Impact of Music 39:16 Treating Each Other Well 40:27 Maintaining the Integrity of the African Diaspora JOIN THE NEWSLETTER đ« Be the first to hear about behind the scenes, new episode drops and live shows near you! Sign up: https://tr.ee/QJ4c7FUWBj LISTEN TO THE SHOW iTunes: http://bit.ly/3XDA3sl Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3D33sCM JOIN OUR COMMUNITY đž Instagram: https://instagram.com/cultureraisesus đŠ Twitter: https://twitter.com/cultureraisesus đ” TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@cultureraisesus ABOUT US Culture Raises US. It isnât just something weâre impacted by, itâs also something we can impact. As empowered stewards of Culture, itâs time to get smart on how we can continue influencing society while breaking new grounds. On Culture Raises US, Astor Chambers invites you to join for honest, insightful, and challenging conversations with pioneering cultivators across music, fashion, tech, sports, art, and entertainment.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
To who much is given, much is required. Part of
that requirement is sharing. Culture is the heartbeat within our
lives and it's at the core of so many things.
While we live in a time when we are starving
for wisdom, I welcome you to your wisdom retreat that
culture raises us. Ted In Carrie Anye Today's gets senior
(00:24):
level music executive at BMG with over twenty plus years
of experience working with the likes of the Madonnas of
the world, Justin Bieber's Mary J. Blige, Britney Spears, name
a few songwriter here. He is definitely what I say,
a creatives first, a creative first, and has a passion
(00:45):
that kind of speaks to the language of making hit records.
Before we have him kind of walk us through his journey.
I want to start with our signature question. And when
you hear culture, what does that mean to you?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
My prap, culture is your village. Culture is it is
a soundtrack, It is the essence, it is food.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
It is the.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Energy of your culture, of your background and your village
in which way you grew. That's what I think of culture.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
You know what we're looking at, you know your background.
I think it makes total sense that you're a very
successful VP of a n R giving your extensive songwriting background.
And it's also I think shows the ability to have
an impact in the evolution of music culture, both inside
and outside the border. What kind of prompted you to
make this shift from the creative side to the executive
(01:38):
side of the business.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Great question. It's funny because I think I'm at that
apex in my career where I can say this, I've done.
I did twelve and a half years on each side
right now, so I'm entering my twenty fifth year.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Wit So.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I and.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I really woke up one day and I, you know,
solwriting for me was wasn't a job. It was something
that I loved. But in Atlanta we approach it very much,
very similar to how they do it in Nashville. Like,
you know, we went to work every day and we
went to the studio Atlanta as Black Nashville. We went,
we went to go write songs, and we approached it
(02:22):
from a and a work like perspective, like it whatever
was on the calendar, whatever artist was coming to town,
whatever schedule was coming was on the schedule. So we
went to work every day and in life. I believe
in it's slow and change and I literally I'll never forget.
I was sitting in the back of the studio about
(02:45):
ten to twelve years in my career, ten eleven years
in my career, and I said, you know, I.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Really want to become an r m HM.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
And you know, I said that to myself quietly, and
then I started letting some people know that that was
my those were my aspirations. And then I tell people this,
to be honest with you. The real thing that pushed
me over the edge was I met this discovered this
songwriter from New Orleans, but I met him here in
LA and he gave me his demo and I listened
(03:15):
to this demo. I didn't listen to it right away,
and I said, I'll get to it. I'll get to it.
I'll get to it. And I left it in a
car and someone that I was seeing at the time
she said to me, She's like, man, these songs that
she wrote are phenomenal. And I'm like, great, thank you.
Because she was driving my car and I didn't have
it and I'm gonna date myself because this was on
(03:36):
the CD. So she was listening to CD and she
was like, of these songs he wrote are amazing, and
you know, and she's like, well, why did you write
this song about getting running away and getting married? And
I'm like, I never wrote no song about running away
and getting married. I was like, I said, oh shit,
that probably that kid that I met when I was
in LA And I was like that, let me go
back and listen to these songs. And I heard these songs,
(03:58):
and these songs were fucking phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
And so.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I heard the songs and this kid was so prolific,
so amazing, and I believe Father Time, which is still undefeated,
told me I'm a very big sports fan, so I'll
make a quick sports reference. So at some point when
you when you're playing and you're on the court and
you're whooping and here comes this young kid and you realize, yo,
(04:26):
as an old man, I can't move the way I can,
I can't jump the way I can.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
And this kid came in.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
He crossed me up creatively, and I was like, yo,
I'm not as good as this kid. Long story short,
I ended up getting a publishing gig consultancy. In my
very first publishing gig, I said, I got to sign
this kid and this kid turned out to me Frank Ocean, So.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
You know you're joking on that's the person who motive be.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Actually, Frank Ocean retired my pin.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Because you know so well, so many ironies to this.
You know, I have three girls, and two of my
girls have turned I don't want to say turn me on.
I was always familiar with Frank Ocean, but my true
appreciation for him has built tremendously since my daughters have
played him so much. So it's so funny and very
interesting really, how you talk about the impact of his sound,
(05:23):
his talent, his creative genius, being able to influence somebody
who can then influence others about his greatness, which is
exactly what happened to you, where your partner at that
point at that time was talking to you about this
amazing song that you wrote, and you then find out
what that's not, That wasn't mine. No, that's so beautiful,
(05:44):
and then look at the birth of Frank Ocean.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
And so my very first gig was that I was
a consultant for the company which I'm now seeing vice
president of that and I was like, hey, I got
to sign this kid. I was like, I know, I
just got here, but I said, this kid's amazing, and
so he was my very first deal I ever made,
my very first signing, and I was you know, and
(06:08):
you know, he and I grew together in this business.
See went on to become you know, it's one of
the greatest artists of our generation and the greatest songwriters
on the greatest just creative individuals. But I saw that,
you know, and I say that, I can't say that
I saw all this because you know, I tell people
this story all the time when we were working to
(06:29):
get some So what the first thing I did was
I said, Okay, I gotta get this. I got to
recoup this deal. And so you know, as a young executive,
I'm like, okay, quiet, I gave this kid and cut
this kid in check, so now I get to get
this money back. And you know, I felt it incumbent
to like, let me figure out, let me go pitch
his records. I was like, you know, let's let's go
get you a record deal because you're you'll be an
(06:50):
amazing artist. Blah blah blah. So first thing I did
was I called school abroad. I said school, I got
this kid named Frank Waddie bro I said, I got
to put some salt. You gotta hear this kid, and
he'd be great for Justin Bieber. My first Frank's first
cut was a song called Bigger and it was on
Justin's Justin's album, So I was I was pitching. So
I was like, okay, cool, Frank, we're a business now,
(07:11):
now pitching song. You gotta cut on this kid named
Justin Bieber, Canada. I think he's gonna be pretty big love.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I love the humble nature to these these these individuals.
I think they're gonna be prettye.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Listen at the time where you know I'm husto. I'm
I could get Scooter on the phone. That that that
that that should tell you how much earlier in the
game was I ended a backseat. Well that going back
to because I actually I wrote Bieber's very first single
one time. So as in my songwriting days, I wrote
his very first singles. I had a relationship with Scooter
and been able to place a lot of songs and
so I was like, cool, I know I can get
(07:44):
this saw on this album. So I did that and
then one of the the other funny story was so
I called my friend great producer Tricky Stewart, who was
an executive at Death Chick at the time. I said, Trick,
I said, listen, man, I signed his kid. I think he'
said amazing. I think he'll be an amazing artist. You
really got to do this deal. Just take to listen
(08:06):
to the music and hopefully love it and figure he's
all right, cool. I'm actually driving to Vegas, so I'll
pop it into the CD. And but I'm on my
way to Vegas and two months had gone by, Triggy
hadn't called me back about this music. And I'm like, yo, man,
when you get listen to this kid, I'm trying to
sell you.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
He's amazing.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
He's amazing it. Just like I'll get you. I'll get
to I'll get to it. And Trick called me on
on his drive back from Vegas and he's like, Yo,
where's this kid at And I'm like, I said, finally
you finally listened to it. I was like, he's right
here or whatever. He's like, Yo, let's do a deal
at Death Jam And I said amazing. And I was like, okay,
(08:42):
this is this is finally working out. So I called Frank,
got him a record deal. Tricky sighed him to death
Jam and I'll never forget. You know. It was I
was landing at the airport one day and I was
driving and I'll never never forget there was an article.
There's a big music editor here with the La Times,
and I'll never forget he wrote an article about Frank
(09:03):
and I literally had the newspapers. I was landing and
this article happened, and my phone just started blowing up,
and I'm like, you know this is when he put
out Nostalgia Ultra Yeah, And I'm like, yo, like this
is fucking I sai yo Bro, I think I think
people love you. I think the shit is about to happen.
(09:25):
It was just it kind of happened like that, and
then I'll never forget. Everybody in the business was like, hell,
where's this kid? At that you got? Where's this kid?
They were calling me, where's this kid? Where it's this kid?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Where's his kid?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Including people at death Sham who did not know they
had him signed?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Wow that part?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, So that that's so to answer your story long winded,
I made the decision to become an executive based off
me meeting a kid.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Named Lottie bro slash Franco No.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I love that and another element in here is it
sounds like the muscle and the desire for patience, right,
because a number of the things that you mentioned, you know,
nothing hit quote unquote immediately. It took that patience and
that discernment to let it sit and when it was time,
(10:11):
it was going to be and you and you saw
that through. And as I'm already listening to you know,
with all the artists, labels and companies you worked with
over the years, was there a moment where you realize
just how big and instrumental this music culture was to
overall culture of life.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, I mean I grew up on this thing, man,
you know, it's it's it's a language that I've been
speaking since I was a kid, and the language that
I've been listening to. And and so my brother was
a radio DJ at U see Sata Cruz up in
the Bay, and you know, I would always just hang
out with him. He had like a midnight rotation. So
I would just be like, you know, under there with
with with the records, be like I used to try
(10:52):
to play this, play this, play this, and I would
just study credits and you know, just any which way
I can get close to the music. So Yeah, for me,
music has just always just been a part of my culture.
And and you know, it's funny. I was telling somebody
the other day literally just you know, we sometimes we
get lost in the business of at all because that's
just what we do for a living. But yeah, at
(11:14):
the core, you know, I'm here because I loved I
love music, and it's that hasn't changed. And and a lyric,
the good melody, an amazing hook still drives me to
this day.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I guess that's also the beauty of doing something that
you love, so it doesn't seem like work every day.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
And you were talking about your.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Brothers, so your first generation immigrants from South Africa, correctness,
and so you literally, you know, made your way into
this industry very similar to how I see even like
afrobeats and music from the African diaspora that's kind of
making this significant mark on music culture in general. What's
(11:55):
your thoughts on the emerging, you know, global influence that
Africa is havingarticular.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
We're just getting started. Yeah, we're just getting started.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
As long as we I.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Think it's important to to take ownership of it. I
think it's important to make sure that it doesn't lose
its its essence. The you know, you know, I'm a
piano has been around for four or five years. People
were telling telling me about I'm a piano four years
ago and sending me I'm a pion artist. And you know,
(12:28):
now now you here I'm a piano in in our meetings,
and you're like, you know, it's it's the it's it's
the gift and the curse, because great music knows no borders. Right,
it should it should be for the world. You just
want to make sure that it doesn't get watered down
by the world, you know, and and and the essence
(12:49):
of what it is. You know, listen, it's what hip
hop was, right, So it's it's we know where the
home of hip hop is and we understood how hip
hop had its roots and why it it's it's still
to this day, you know, the voice of a lot
of the unheard, you know, m and I think I
hope that afrobeats, you know, the just overall, I'm a piano,
(13:13):
whatever you want to break it down to, still resonates
for the continent, and that people for the content get
the credit. People from the content are behind the music,
people from the continent are behind the business. Decisions of
the new threats the creators of the music. That's right,
and for me that is very important.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
It sounds like you could take a learning from the
journey and the history of hip hop. And because as
you as you made the comment of taking ownership and
not lose its essence, I was thinking to myself, he's
definitely speaking from a place of reference. There's obviously something
that's taken place that spurred this comment, and you alluded
to it in hip hop and so you know, I'd
(13:51):
love to hear from you. What do you think that's
going to look like? Right, because that's going to be
a new discipline. I know you understand it because we
have a significant learning on the evolution of hip hop,
the impact of hip hop, which is an ip that
we've created but now has to certain degrees been what
you would call it water down, utilized or benefited by
many others who probably are not from the diaspora. How
(14:12):
do we now with afrobeats? And sure, what are some
of the things that you would recommend? Here are the
things that we have to do and it I think
you kind of alluded to a couple, But what are
the things we have to do to ensure that it's
not the same as great question.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
I think those you know, I think a footprint on
the continent from labels is necessary rather than rather than
us people having to travel here. I think it's important
for labels and those are like to go there and
(14:53):
to to not bastardize it and to understand what it is.
You know, listen, when you get off a play and
you go to Nashville. Every major label is in Nashville.
They're all there, right, And Nashville has done an amazing
job of they put a fence around country music. If
you want to be a country music you have to
(15:14):
go and you have to spend time in Nashville. You
can't be a country music and on Wilshire Boulevard because
then it's not country music. So I guess in the sense,
it's very similar to what has to take place for
African music from music of the content, for music of
the origin of it. So I think that's important for
(15:35):
labels and people and independence and all that they have
to be on the content unapologetically too, unapologetically and do
business with people on the content.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, this what you just said about Nashville, I mean,
made it so clear of a picture of what's needed,
right when you said Nashville put a fence around country
music and nobody's coming after them for doing so, right,
it is, and it's maintaining the purity and the essence
of that genre, which is such a great example of
(16:09):
what can be applied elsewhere. And so you know, as
you talk about that, I also think about, all right, then,
how do you approach now diversity and inclusion in your role,
ensuring that you know, a variety of voices and perspectives
are kind of respected in the artists who you work
(16:29):
with or represented that I should say, in the artists
you work with and the music you kind of support,
which is very similar kind of an evolution to the
answer that you just gave.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
You're saying, you're saying in terms of the arts that
I currently work.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
With, and just in general in the music business. Right
It we talk about diversity inclusion in a very corporate sense, right,
but I think in the music sense, there's this opportunity
to approach it in a very unique way to ensure
that certain you know, certain types of people or voices
(17:06):
are represented. Right, And again, Afrobeat's kind of being a
part of that from from an inside perspective. I'd love
to get your thoughts on how you approach that. When
I say, inside from an A and R standpoint.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Right, yeah, listen again, it's it's go go to those
who are making the music and speak to those who
are making the music. And I think it's important too
to educate those about all aspects of the business that
are those that are making the music. Educate them and
let them know how to grow a business, how to
build their business, how to scale their business in and
(17:40):
out of the studio, in an in and off stage.
I think for me that's one of the things that
I love to do and I feel a kinship especially
to those that are that are making that music. I
had some conversations today with some people on the on
the Continent this morning in Johnnisburg because I'm actually taking
a trip there in February, so I'm setting up meetings.
And you know, the last time I was there, I
(18:01):
sat with Tebow Touch, who was the biggest DJ, and
I got a chance to go spend some time with him.
So you know, for me, it's it's about going to
those people and and letting them know, listen, we America is,
you know, if you make it here, you make it anywhere.
But at the end of the day, it's we're not
coming with without respect for what you're building. But I
(18:23):
think it's about to answer your question, it's a little
bit about education, letting people know how to how to
do it, how.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
To build it.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
But for the most part too, like man, a lot
of these kids are doing such amazing things from a
dance perspective and creating their own content, So it's it's
just a matter of time. But yeah, I want to
make sure that owners people understand how ownership is now.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Ownership is is a huge thing, and when you talk
about ownership, I look at, you know, the recognition that
also comes with it, right, and what it is that
we've created within this black community and what this has
brought to the world, which is often then you know, borrowed,
(19:06):
appropriated and inspired other you know, cultures and industries. The
ownership piece is a huge, huge component that I feel
we have to do a better job of carving out
that equity right and en showing from the start we
are we are owning the ip that we created and
(19:27):
given that this culture has impacted so much and in
shaping you know, culture, it feels like there's a significant
disparity in seeing more black owned record labels and things
to that degree. What do you think is needed to
kind of shift this greater equity and ownership conversation and
balance in the industry.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I won't simplify it, but I'll tell you one of
the things that's needed.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
So you know.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I had a friend of mine like, why do you
want to work at LA Why do you need people
inside label? Why do you want to work with your
own thing? I told him, I said, listen. I said,
if there's not a person inside the building that looks like.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Me, listen, that's they won't understand you the right.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
That's right, the way I understand you, and and and
and at the time and when I in which I
understand you, listen, anybody can find you when you're hot.
There's enough algorithm that we're all staring at the same ship,
at the same data.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
But at the same time, it's like, you need somebody
inside of a building who speaks your language, who looks
like you. It's why it's why Latin departments aren't building.
It's because you're not going to find somebody doing regional
Mexican music. And when he goes to do a label,
there's going to have to be somebody inside the company
that understands regional Mexican music. And it's no different to
(20:52):
me than what happens with with with our culture. Listen,
then black folks need to talk to black people inside
of building. Black folks, we need to translate some things
inside of the building.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
I've done it.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
When I was at Death Chat for six years.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
There'd be many.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Times, but I'd be like, listen, here, you want to
get this deal done.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
This is how we have to do it.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
This is how you it about it. You need somebody
inside the building, internal advocates, internal advocates who can translate,
who can help get your vision across the board so
that it makes sense to everybody, so that we can
get this deal across the fish line.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, and you know that approach, you know, is very
different from how many people would think to answer that question. Right,
we'd figure out ways of how to get more black
on labels, but we don't see the significance of ensuring
that there's representation in the rooms to ensure that those
opportunities can then happen. Right, because we you know, many
of us who are inside these buildings we're also educators, yes, right,
(21:51):
we're providing the information to those who don't live the culture,
don't understand the culture or not of the culture. But
it's our jobs to educate and inform them, to bring
them along so that the culture can be what the
culture needs to be and the individuals within it. So
I love the way you just answered that. Of no,
we still need a bunch of us inside these buildings
(22:12):
to do this work so that those labels can't happen and.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Those things can't happen, right, yes.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
So talk to me about the definition of stardom in
this music industry, which I think is kind of transformed
over the years tremendously, And in your opinion, what kind
of defines like a music artist as a star in
today's digital age, because I think that's shifted the industry
(22:39):
as well.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Well.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
There's hit songs can't take away and hear record.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
And their stars. I really don't believe that stars. What
was a star, who was a star that in the
nineties would be a star today?
Speaker 3 (23:05):
It would not would be would wait?
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Okay, I still believe the essence of what a star
is when they walk in the room, they carry themselves
differently than anybody else that's in the room. I believe
that Dojakat, who is a current star, would be a
star in nineteen ninety eight, nineteen eighty eight, twenty eighteen,
(23:29):
and twenty twenty eight. So to me, when we say
a star in today's the industry, they're just not as many.
But the essence of the star hasn't changed.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
With Bruno Mars, what does brutal come to by? When
you gave the analogy of some way of being a
star in each kind of they get, would Bruno fallwood
in that mix for you? Yeah? I felt that because
when you just broke that down about Doja, I was like, wow,
what other artists do you can you see like being
a star in the eighties, nineties, maybe even the seventies,
(24:05):
and and Bruno was just like.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Bruno could have rocked the Grammy stage in the nineties easily,
and and and and and killed it then as much
as he could kill it today. So again, it's just
they're just not as many Brutos and Doja cats walking
around here. Since I think at the bar, I think
you listen, you know, I don't want to sound like
the old guy the club. I think the bar is yeah,
(24:30):
And I think you know, when you have a star man,
it's just when when you when when you come across
one of those that they're rare, you know what I mean,
And they're.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Just they're just hard to find.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
And and but yeah, yeah, but you know, you just
I don't want to sound like the old guy, but
to a degree, there was an error where we saw
artists or things developed, yes, mature, and and I do
think we're in an era now where the market and
the consumers look for it to be immediate microwave. I
(25:04):
call it the microwave area. We're very much in the
microwave era. We got to have some put in for
like thirty seconds and then needs to pop immediately. Where
you know, we come from a time where it was
the oven era, where you put something in, let that
thing marinate, operation marination, you got all the seasons kind
of worked together, and then it came out. It was
(25:25):
this magical experience. And I feel like that I don't
know if the appetite is there so much anymore for
that type of journey and that build.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
God, I tend to agree with you, Unfortunately, I say,
you know, not that there's any first week allum, tell anymore,
because no one does that anymore exactly. But to your point,
the artists development is kind of, you know, an antiquated
term these days. You know what I'm saying, and you.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Know, but a lot of.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
It has to be done on your own right. So
a lot of it is a lot of it is
you know, you're you're you're hustling, and you're you're you're
getting your songs out, You're putting your song as you
call it, just realid, getting your song on Spotify. You're
doing all this your own, you shooting your own content,
You're finding your own way.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
You know.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
My only thing when I wish there was more of
is that there were less people trying to be like
the guy next door of the artistic store. Right. I
believe that there was so much individualism when we were
growing up. Yeah, and and I think it's still out
there in some artistry. It's out there. But you know,
you know, I remember when Missy said something in a
(26:45):
while she was when she was in her in her
her heyday writing record, she just never listened to the radio.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
That's right, never to be influenced.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
But everything you got from her was authentically her, and
it wasn't in fluenced. It wasn't you know. And I
didn't think when she said it, it didn't come across
as from a very Erican standpoint. It just before I
got it, and I took it as the creativity came
from within. It flowed from within, It didn't need to
(27:12):
come from anywhere else.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
And I wish that there were more of that, that purity.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, listen, man, Like I tell people, we you know,
my phrase is that we all have our own fingerprints.
We should all have our own music, right, you know
what I mean? And it's like when when you were
when Eminem told you what eight mile was, you never
heard her eight mile before. You never wanted to go
to goddamn no eight mile?
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Thanks?
Speaker 2 (27:35):
When When?
Speaker 3 (27:36):
When? When?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
When? When?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
What you call?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Told you about East nineteen ninety Both thugs in Harvey
told you about East nineteen ninety nine in Cleveland. You
never knew what that was, but they brought you in
fact Motown fuck. You never heard of no Motown Philly.
When boys and me told you what Motown Philly was,
they you know, and they put the bow ties on.
They brought you to where they were. There was individuality
and everybody had their own individuality, you know, and they
(28:00):
brought their own thing, their own uniqueness to the table.
And I just believe, you know, when when when Drake
and everybody else put Toronto on, you know, they they
represented where they were from, and they brought this whole
thing and they brought it and it told you to
where there were, you know, where they were from. It
gave you some insight creatively, and they told their stories.
I just believe that's what's still missing. And he goes
back to even with outcasting and you know, and what
(28:22):
they did and they brought you.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
To Atlanta and you know, yeah, and it's and it's
not it's not being different for the sake of being different,
because when you when you try to do that, then
you're all going to look the same.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
As crazy as that sounds, but it's the the authenticity
of your point of differentiation, the purity of, like you said,
your fingerprint again, a beautiful analogy, and the reminder that
literally we all have a song, every one of us,
we all God has gifted us. We're all just stewarts
of these gifts. The hope is that we all get
(28:55):
to showcase whatever these gifts are, and some of them
in the conversation that we're having literal sense of a
song is beautiful. But we all have these songs. But
I think that the beauty of the individuality of it
and the authenticity of the storytelling, I think it is
so rich, which is what what you hit on. And
I look at today's landscape and the rise of streaming
(29:19):
platforms right and the weight consumer are accessing and experiencing
music has also changed. How has that kind of shifted
the influence your approach as like an A and R
to the development side of artists?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Another good question, good question. Listen, you know, no one
sends you demos anymore.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
It's all it's all I'm streaming.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
It's all streaming, streaming, so listen.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
So my approach is like, you know, I'll take a
listen to it all the you know, if it's up there,
I'll listen to it. I don't always care about streams, numbers,
none of that, because I believe that if you find
the right partner, somebody could elevate where you're going and
help the elevate your vision. But if the songs are amazing,
if the art is there and there's a connection between
(30:09):
the art and the artist, you know that's that's a
beautiful day for me at the dn R. You know,
if you if you can find that that that gem
and you build it. So for me, that's sort of
been just still my approach.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Right because I almost feel like, because remember there was
a there was a thing of breaking, breaking a new
artist or breaking new music, breaking new music? Is that
even the thing anymore? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
It is, but it doesn't happen as much, you know.
You know, we had a debate in my in my
office this time last year going into twenty twenty three,
and we were all sitting around and we were like,
no artist, no artists broke in twenty twenty two, and
you know, and everybody would be like, no, that's.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Not initially true.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
And then there's something who I really like a Jack
Harlow opened Jack Jack Harlowe came out in twenty whatever
and millionaires. But literally we were saying, no artists broke
in the pre in the previous year, people going back
and forth, but that thing said, artists come out, they
don't break, And I guess we can all determine what
breaking an artist is, right.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
That's all relatives.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
It's relative. I think at least if you have two
hit songs, and and and you you can you can
sell some hard tickets and there's a and there's an
anticipation for your next records. I think, to me, that's
that's an artist that broke.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
So that's the new definition for you.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, if you have multiple songs that you could stick
the microphone out for the crowd and they can sing
them back word for word, you know, you know, you
gotta you get the big stage of Coachella, coming into Coachella,
and and you have a hard ticket and people are
excited to get you know, when you're finally gonna hit
the road. You know about that, that's an artist that
(31:52):
that that's broken.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Who do you who do you think has had and
this is a very loaded question, but who do you
think has had the largest impact on shaping music culture?
Is there an individual or individuals or a movement that
you feel have been a significant played a significant role
in shifting music.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Culture, the business or the culture.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Look at you, Okay, you know what I want to
go both so that we can then go through the
differentiation of why and how you pose that.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Oh, Daniel Eck the business who Daniel Eck is from
a business perspective. I mean, listen, you know it's Spotify.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Is has changed everything.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
From a culture perspective, you know, I I.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
It's a great person. I always tell people that from
a historical standpoint, at least from my generation, La Read
La Reed was very significant, and I don't always believe
that people truly give him the flowers that he deserves
from his great of what he did. And when I
(33:13):
say what he did was he brought music to the
South right and culturally people when when you think about
the South, you think about, Okay, it's just hip hop,
it's just black music. That's not just. That's not true
at all. Because what La Red did, La Reed gave
voices to people like Jermaine Duprie, who's written big, the
(33:34):
biggest pop song for Mariah Carret He's given. He gave
Tricky Stewart his very first studio, who wrote on Bella
Flour Rihanna. He gave Dallas Austin his big some of
his his first biggest cuts, who's gone on the huge
records for Gwen Stefani and everybody else. He signed pick
so when people are understid he's signed Justin Bieber, so it.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Goes But l A.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Reed did. It goes far beyond just the face face
in urban music, far beyond so I genuine believe in
my generation, Eli Reed is the most responsible for what culture.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
And so now I could see why you wanted the
question to be broken up into two pieces because it's
it's a significant difference of one that kind of, for
lack of a better word, laid the foundation in terms
of the impact of what music can be. And that's
outside of just urban I et la Reed to what
(34:42):
Daniel has done with Spotify from a service that's kind
of changed the way in which we can soon listen
interact with music. So now that makes total sense for
me in terms of why you broke it down from
the beginning so personal. The tab documentary storyline of you
(35:06):
is about to come on. We've created the documentary about you,
and the opening scene to your life documentary is about
to begin. What song is playing and why, Oh.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Steve wad All I do is think of here, No
matter where I'm at, no matter how I'm feeling, the
moment that song comes on, it reminds me of all
good things in life. Its sonically, it is a warm blanket,
(35:41):
It's a sunny day even if it's ran outside listen.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
I don't know if you saw the smile that I
had when you said that song, because it brings that
level of joy to me every time I hear that song.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
And it's funny.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
During Michael Jackson's singing background.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Wait, Michael's singing background on that song.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
It's Michael jack said, all I do is think you
that's Michael sh Okay.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
You just took that to a whole other level for me.
I had no idea of that. But but you know
what so funny. During COVID, I took the time to
start compiling some of my favorite songs and making a
playlist because we obviously were all going through so many
different things, and I found that I needed a tool
or a resource that I could just go to it.
(36:26):
I knew, no matter what was happening, a smile and
joy was gonna come to my spirit. Based off of
this playlist, and obviously one of the first songs was
that for Sure, hands down, and Stevie had a ton
of songs on the playlist. Yeah, it's just that that
joy that you that you just talked about. He exudes
(36:50):
that on a number of this record. So I'm so
glad that you mentioned that as a song that's going
to be in the opening scene of your documentary.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
There you go on thousand said, I love it.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Well.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Look, we always end these with, you know, asking what
three seeds you don't want to leave with the stewarts
of culture moving forward? And these are three key elements
or things that you feel are going to be necessary
to equip those who are going to be you know,
shaping and molding culture as we know of moving forward
(37:24):
and the things that we deem so precious in our ips.
What would those three things.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Be three seeds of culture that I'd like to leave.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Well, three seeds. And when we make the correlation to seeds,
like a farmer right, farmers plant these seeds, they wanted them,
they nurture them, and they grow into these amazing beautiful
things or sometimes not based off of how they're cared for.
So what are the three things that you would impart
on the stewarts of culture moving forward to say these
(37:54):
are the three things I would recommend you being cognizant
enough and employing and activating and being cognizant of no
matter what.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Okay, I'd plant one seed and then I'd open the package, see,
and it would be individuality, and I would build out.
I would say, as I plant that, see the individuality
from what grows there should be uniquely yourself, uniquely it's
its own thing. Oh, plant that fertilize it developed it individual.
(38:33):
The second thing I would I think I would plant
a plant, the plant, the seed of global uh. Except
you know, the world is very big. And it's funny
because I was just last last summer, I was went
to a bunch of rolling louds.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
There its rolling lout in Portugal.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
The people didn't even realize that there was. That there's
all these rolling loves that are taking place globally, and
how much our music takes, you know, is shaping every thing.
So I believe it's important for and I love what
our artists get on plays and they realize that they
you know that there's people who don't speak the language,
but they're sitting there singing your record word for word
that you made in your bedroom, and the world is
(39:13):
musically the world is flat. It's sonically flat. And I
think it's important to understand that, you know, although you
make music for your area, for your hood and your
boys and your people, that there's a big world out
there too, and I think it's and for good for
artists in the MIDI travel and see the world. H
(39:34):
Third thing I would plant, man, I think it would
just be like, let's just treat each other well. Man,
let's just treat each other well, like you know, uh
uh see the peace.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
And you know that for me, peace is everything. And
I'm so glad you closed with that. And even your
first one of individuality just plays back to you know,
when you were walking through the different artists and their
impact of when you know, the outcasts of the world
or the eminem of the world, and how impactful they
(40:08):
were by kind of painting the pictures of where they
were from in a very authentic way. Just imagine that
we all applied that to everything that we do that
comes from within you, we'd be so much more of
a colorful, bright, vibrant society and culture. So I thank
(40:31):
you for those and I really want to thank you
for this time. You know, I did not know you
personally coming into this and obviously doing my research and
figuring out tons of mutual friends and obviously the work
that you've done, and I just want to applaud you
for the work. But I'm more so, I'm more so
really excited about the work that you're going to do
(40:52):
moving forward. And I think when you talk about your
affinity for maintaining the integrity of the African diast bring
the music that comes from it right and the way
that you're kind of advising us to approach it right
in terms of having the footprint on the continent, doing
the things and empowering those who are of the culture
(41:14):
and within the continent to ensure that we do this
thing a little bit differently than what we've done in
the past. And for that alone, I truly want to
thank you to applaud you.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Thank you, my brother.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
I really appreciate this man, and I love what you're
gouty are doing. It's so funny. I just got to
call in the tweet that now was Tim wetherscoone.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
By the way, of course one we all need to
get out for a round of golf and you get.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Tell you, yeah, man, I want to come to Portland.
It's so funny. But Portland is a city that I've
never been to. I've flown over, I've been to Vancouver
a billion times, I've been everywhere. But yes, I need
to get to Portland, and I will get to Portland
this coming year.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
For sure, we'll make it happen. I thank you again,
and let's forward to building more.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Thank you so much for that.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
We truly appreciate your support because it helps us bill
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our mission
To who much is given, much is required. Part of
that requirement is sharing. Culture is the heartbeat within our
lives and it's at the core of so many things.
While we live in a time when we are starving
for wisdom, I welcome you to your wisdom retreat that
culture raises us. Ted In Carrie Anye Today's gets senior
(00:24):
level music executive at BMG with over twenty plus years
of experience working with the likes of the Madonnas of
the world, Justin Bieber's Mary J. Blige, Britney Spears, name
a few songwriter here. He is definitely what I say,
a creatives first, a creative first, and has a passion
(00:45):
that kind of speaks to the language of making hit records.
Before we have him kind of walk us through his journey.
I want to start with our signature question. And when
you hear culture, what does that mean to you?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
My prap, culture is your village. Culture is it is
a soundtrack, It is the essence, it is food.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
It is the.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Energy of your culture, of your background and your village
in which way you grew. That's what I think of culture.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
You know what we're looking at, you know your background.
I think it makes total sense that you're a very
successful VP of a n R giving your extensive songwriting background.
And it's also I think shows the ability to have
an impact in the evolution of music culture, both inside
and outside the border. What kind of prompted you to
make this shift from the creative side to the executive
(01:38):
side of the business.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Great question. It's funny because I think I'm at that
apex in my career where I can say this, I've done.
I did twelve and a half years on each side
right now, so I'm entering my twenty fifth year.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Wit So.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I and.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I really woke up one day and I, you know,
solwriting for me was wasn't a job. It was something
that I loved. But in Atlanta we approach it very much,
very similar to how they do it in Nashville. Like,
you know, we went to work every day and we
went to the studio Atlanta as Black Nashville. We went,
we went to go write songs, and we approached it
(02:22):
from a and a work like perspective, like it whatever
was on the calendar, whatever artist was coming to town,
whatever schedule was coming was on the schedule. So we
went to work every day and in life. I believe
in it's slow and change and I literally I'll never forget.
I was sitting in the back of the studio about
(02:45):
ten to twelve years in my career, ten eleven years
in my career, and I said, you know, I.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Really want to become an r m HM.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
And you know, I said that to myself quietly, and
then I started letting some people know that that was
my those were my aspirations. And then I tell people this,
to be honest with you. The real thing that pushed
me over the edge was I met this discovered this
songwriter from New Orleans, but I met him here in
LA and he gave me his demo and I listened
(03:15):
to this demo. I didn't listen to it right away,
and I said, I'll get to it. I'll get to it.
I'll get to it. And I left it in a
car and someone that I was seeing at the time
she said to me, She's like, man, these songs that
she wrote are phenomenal. And I'm like, great, thank you.
Because she was driving my car and I didn't have
it and I'm gonna date myself because this was on
(03:36):
the CD. So she was listening to CD and she
was like, of these songs he wrote are amazing, and
you know, and she's like, well, why did you write
this song about getting running away and getting married? And
I'm like, I never wrote no song about running away
and getting married. I was like, I said, oh shit,
that probably that kid that I met when I was
in LA And I was like that, let me go
back and listen to these songs. And I heard these songs,
(03:58):
and these songs were fucking phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
And so.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I heard the songs and this kid was so prolific,
so amazing, and I believe Father Time, which is still undefeated,
told me I'm a very big sports fan, so I'll
make a quick sports reference. So at some point when
you when you're playing and you're on the court and
you're whooping and here comes this young kid and you realize, yo,
(04:26):
as an old man, I can't move the way I can,
I can't jump the way I can.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
And this kid came in.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
He crossed me up creatively, and I was like, yo,
I'm not as good as this kid. Long story short,
I ended up getting a publishing gig consultancy. In my
very first publishing gig, I said, I got to sign
this kid and this kid turned out to me Frank Ocean, So.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
You know you're joking on that's the person who motive be.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Actually, Frank Ocean retired my pin.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Because you know so well, so many ironies to this.
You know, I have three girls, and two of my
girls have turned I don't want to say turn me on.
I was always familiar with Frank Ocean, but my true
appreciation for him has built tremendously since my daughters have
played him so much. So it's so funny and very
interesting really, how you talk about the impact of his sound,
(05:23):
his talent, his creative genius, being able to influence somebody
who can then influence others about his greatness, which is
exactly what happened to you, where your partner at that
point at that time was talking to you about this
amazing song that you wrote, and you then find out
what that's not, That wasn't mine. No, that's so beautiful,
(05:44):
and then look at the birth of Frank Ocean.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
And so my very first gig was that I was
a consultant for the company which I'm now seeing vice
president of that and I was like, hey, I got
to sign this kid. I was like, I know, I
just got here, but I said, this kid's amazing, and
so he was my very first deal I ever made,
my very first signing, and I was you know, and
(06:08):
you know, he and I grew together in this business.
See went on to become you know, it's one of
the greatest artists of our generation and the greatest songwriters
on the greatest just creative individuals. But I saw that,
you know, and I say that, I can't say that
I saw all this because you know, I tell people
this story all the time when we were working to
(06:29):
get some So what the first thing I did was
I said, Okay, I gotta get this. I got to
recoup this deal. And so you know, as a young executive,
I'm like, okay, quiet, I gave this kid and cut
this kid in check, so now I get to get
this money back. And you know, I felt it incumbent
to like, let me figure out, let me go pitch
his records. I was like, you know, let's let's go
get you a record deal because you're you'll be an
(06:50):
amazing artist. Blah blah blah. So first thing I did
was I called school abroad. I said school, I got
this kid named Frank Waddie bro I said, I got
to put some salt. You gotta hear this kid, and
he'd be great for Justin Bieber. My first Frank's first
cut was a song called Bigger and it was on
Justin's Justin's album, So I was I was pitching. So
I was like, okay, cool, Frank, we're a business now,
(07:11):
now pitching song. You gotta cut on this kid named
Justin Bieber, Canada. I think he's gonna be pretty big love.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I love the humble nature to these these these individuals.
I think they're gonna be prettye.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Listen at the time where you know I'm husto. I'm
I could get Scooter on the phone. That that that
that that should tell you how much earlier in the
game was I ended a backseat. Well that going back
to because I actually I wrote Bieber's very first single
one time. So as in my songwriting days, I wrote
his very first singles. I had a relationship with Scooter
and been able to place a lot of songs and
so I was like, cool, I know I can get
(07:44):
this saw on this album. So I did that and
then one of the the other funny story was so
I called my friend great producer Tricky Stewart, who was
an executive at Death Chick at the time. I said, Trick,
I said, listen, man, I signed his kid. I think he'
said amazing. I think he'll be an amazing artist. You
really got to do this deal. Just take to listen
(08:06):
to the music and hopefully love it and figure he's
all right, cool. I'm actually driving to Vegas, so I'll
pop it into the CD. And but I'm on my
way to Vegas and two months had gone by, Triggy
hadn't called me back about this music. And I'm like, yo, man,
when you get listen to this kid, I'm trying to
sell you.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
He's amazing.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
He's amazing it. Just like I'll get you. I'll get
to I'll get to it. And Trick called me on
on his drive back from Vegas and he's like, Yo,
where's this kid at And I'm like, I said, finally
you finally listened to it. I was like, he's right
here or whatever. He's like, Yo, let's do a deal
at Death Jam And I said amazing. And I was like, okay,
(08:42):
this is this is finally working out. So I called Frank,
got him a record deal. Tricky sighed him to death
Jam and I'll never forget. You know. It was I
was landing at the airport one day and I was
driving and I'll never never forget there was an article.
There's a big music editor here with the La Times,
and I'll never forget he wrote an article about Frank
(09:03):
and I literally had the newspapers. I was landing and
this article happened, and my phone just started blowing up,
and I'm like, you know this is when he put
out Nostalgia Ultra Yeah, And I'm like, yo, like this
is fucking I sai yo Bro, I think I think
people love you. I think the shit is about to happen.
(09:25):
It was just it kind of happened like that, and
then I'll never forget. Everybody in the business was like, hell,
where's this kid? At that you got? Where's this kid?
They were calling me, where's this kid? Where it's this kid?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Where's his kid?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Including people at death Sham who did not know they
had him signed?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Wow that part?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, So that that's so to answer your story long winded,
I made the decision to become an executive based off
me meeting a kid.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Named Lottie bro slash Franco No.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I love that and another element in here is it
sounds like the muscle and the desire for patience, right,
because a number of the things that you mentioned, you know,
nothing hit quote unquote immediately. It took that patience and
that discernment to let it sit and when it was time,
(10:11):
it was going to be and you and you saw
that through. And as I'm already listening to you know,
with all the artists, labels and companies you worked with
over the years, was there a moment where you realize
just how big and instrumental this music culture was to
overall culture of life.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, I mean I grew up on this thing, man,
you know, it's it's it's a language that I've been
speaking since I was a kid, and the language that
I've been listening to. And and so my brother was
a radio DJ at U see Sata Cruz up in
the Bay, and you know, I would always just hang
out with him. He had like a midnight rotation. So
I would just be like, you know, under there with
with with the records, be like I used to try
(10:52):
to play this, play this, play this, and I would
just study credits and you know, just any which way
I can get close to the music. So Yeah, for me,
music has just always just been a part of my culture.
And and you know, it's funny. I was telling somebody
the other day literally just you know, we sometimes we
get lost in the business of at all because that's
just what we do for a living. But yeah, at
(11:14):
the core, you know, I'm here because I loved I
love music, and it's that hasn't changed. And and a lyric,
the good melody, an amazing hook still drives me to
this day.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I guess that's also the beauty of doing something that
you love, so it doesn't seem like work every day.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
And you were talking about your.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Brothers, so your first generation immigrants from South Africa, correctness,
and so you literally, you know, made your way into
this industry very similar to how I see even like
afrobeats and music from the African diaspora that's kind of
making this significant mark on music culture in general. What's
(11:55):
your thoughts on the emerging, you know, global influence that
Africa is havingarticular.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
We're just getting started. Yeah, we're just getting started.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
As long as we I.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Think it's important to to take ownership of it. I
think it's important to make sure that it doesn't lose
its its essence. The you know, you know, I'm a
piano has been around for four or five years. People
were telling telling me about I'm a piano four years
ago and sending me I'm a pion artist. And you know,
(12:28):
now now you here I'm a piano in in our meetings,
and you're like, you know, it's it's the it's it's
the gift and the curse, because great music knows no borders. Right,
it should it should be for the world. You just
want to make sure that it doesn't get watered down
by the world, you know, and and and the essence
(12:49):
of what it is. You know, listen, it's what hip
hop was, right, So it's it's we know where the
home of hip hop is and we understood how hip
hop had its roots and why it it's it's still
to this day, you know, the voice of a lot
of the unheard, you know, m and I think I
hope that afrobeats, you know, the just overall, I'm a piano,
(13:13):
whatever you want to break it down to, still resonates
for the continent, and that people for the content get
the credit. People from the content are behind the music,
people from the continent are behind the business. Decisions of
the new threats the creators of the music. That's right,
and for me that is very important.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
It sounds like you could take a learning from the
journey and the history of hip hop. And because as
you as you made the comment of taking ownership and
not lose its essence, I was thinking to myself, he's
definitely speaking from a place of reference. There's obviously something
that's taken place that spurred this comment, and you alluded
to it in hip hop and so you know, I'd
(13:51):
love to hear from you. What do you think that's
going to look like? Right, because that's going to be
a new discipline. I know you understand it because we
have a significant learning on the evolution of hip hop,
the impact of hip hop, which is an ip that
we've created but now has to certain degrees been what
you would call it water down, utilized or benefited by
many others who probably are not from the diaspora. How
(14:12):
do we now with afrobeats? And sure, what are some
of the things that you would recommend? Here are the
things that we have to do and it I think
you kind of alluded to a couple, But what are
the things we have to do to ensure that it's
not the same as great question.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
I think those you know, I think a footprint on
the continent from labels is necessary rather than rather than
us people having to travel here. I think it's important
for labels and those are like to go there and
(14:53):
to to not bastardize it and to understand what it is.
You know, listen, when you get off a play and
you go to Nashville. Every major label is in Nashville.
They're all there, right, And Nashville has done an amazing
job of they put a fence around country music. If
you want to be a country music you have to
(15:14):
go and you have to spend time in Nashville. You
can't be a country music and on Wilshire Boulevard because
then it's not country music. So I guess in the sense,
it's very similar to what has to take place for
African music from music of the content, for music of
the origin of it. So I think that's important for
(15:35):
labels and people and independence and all that they have
to be on the content unapologetically too, unapologetically and do
business with people on the content.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, this what you just said about Nashville, I mean,
made it so clear of a picture of what's needed,
right when you said Nashville put a fence around country
music and nobody's coming after them for doing so, right,
it is, and it's maintaining the purity and the essence
of that genre, which is such a great example of
(16:09):
what can be applied elsewhere. And so you know, as
you talk about that, I also think about, all right, then,
how do you approach now diversity and inclusion in your role,
ensuring that you know, a variety of voices and perspectives
are kind of respected in the artists who you work
(16:29):
with or represented that I should say, in the artists
you work with and the music you kind of support,
which is very similar kind of an evolution to the
answer that you just gave.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
You're saying, you're saying in terms of the arts that
I currently work.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
With, and just in general in the music business. Right
It we talk about diversity inclusion in a very corporate sense, right,
but I think in the music sense, there's this opportunity
to approach it in a very unique way to ensure
that certain you know, certain types of people or voices
(17:06):
are represented. Right, And again, Afrobeat's kind of being a
part of that from from an inside perspective. I'd love
to get your thoughts on how you approach that. When
I say, inside from an A and R standpoint.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Right, yeah, listen again, it's it's go go to those
who are making the music and speak to those who
are making the music. And I think it's important too
to educate those about all aspects of the business that
are those that are making the music. Educate them and
let them know how to grow a business, how to
build their business, how to scale their business in and
(17:40):
out of the studio, in an in and off stage.
I think for me that's one of the things that
I love to do and I feel a kinship especially
to those that are that are making that music. I
had some conversations today with some people on the on
the Continent this morning in Johnnisburg because I'm actually taking
a trip there in February, so I'm setting up meetings.
And you know, the last time I was there, I
(18:01):
sat with Tebow Touch, who was the biggest DJ, and
I got a chance to go spend some time with him.
So you know, for me, it's it's about going to
those people and and letting them know, listen, we America is,
you know, if you make it here, you make it anywhere.
But at the end of the day, it's we're not
coming with without respect for what you're building. But I
(18:23):
think it's about to answer your question, it's a little
bit about education, letting people know how to how to
do it, how.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
To build it.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
But for the most part too, like man, a lot
of these kids are doing such amazing things from a
dance perspective and creating their own content, So it's it's
just a matter of time. But yeah, I want to
make sure that owners people understand how ownership is now.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Ownership is is a huge thing, and when you talk
about ownership, I look at, you know, the recognition that
also comes with it, right, and what it is that
we've created within this black community and what this has
brought to the world, which is often then you know, borrowed,
(19:06):
appropriated and inspired other you know, cultures and industries. The
ownership piece is a huge, huge component that I feel
we have to do a better job of carving out
that equity right and en showing from the start we
are we are owning the ip that we created and
(19:27):
given that this culture has impacted so much and in
shaping you know, culture, it feels like there's a significant
disparity in seeing more black owned record labels and things
to that degree. What do you think is needed to
kind of shift this greater equity and ownership conversation and
balance in the industry.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I won't simplify it, but I'll tell you one of
the things that's needed.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
So you know.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I had a friend of mine like, why do you
want to work at LA Why do you need people
inside label? Why do you want to work with your
own thing? I told him, I said, listen. I said,
if there's not a person inside the building that looks like.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Me, listen, that's they won't understand you the right.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
That's right, the way I understand you, and and and
and at the time and when I in which I
understand you, listen, anybody can find you when you're hot.
There's enough algorithm that we're all staring at the same ship,
at the same data.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
But at the same time, it's like, you need somebody
inside of a building who speaks your language, who looks
like you. It's why it's why Latin departments aren't building.
It's because you're not going to find somebody doing regional
Mexican music. And when he goes to do a label,
there's going to have to be somebody inside the company
that understands regional Mexican music. And it's no different to
(20:52):
me than what happens with with with our culture. Listen,
then black folks need to talk to black people inside
of building. Black folks, we need to translate some things
inside of the building.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
I've done it.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
When I was at Death Chat for six years.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
There'd be many.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Times, but I'd be like, listen, here, you want to
get this deal done.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
This is how we have to do it.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
This is how you it about it. You need somebody
inside the building, internal advocates, internal advocates who can translate,
who can help get your vision across the board so
that it makes sense to everybody, so that we can
get this deal across the fish line.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, and you know that approach, you know, is very
different from how many people would think to answer that question. Right,
we'd figure out ways of how to get more black
on labels, but we don't see the significance of ensuring
that there's representation in the rooms to ensure that those
opportunities can then happen. Right, because we you know, many
of us who are inside these buildings we're also educators, yes, right,
(21:51):
we're providing the information to those who don't live the culture,
don't understand the culture or not of the culture. But
it's our jobs to educate and inform them, to bring
them along so that the culture can be what the
culture needs to be and the individuals within it. So
I love the way you just answered that. Of no,
we still need a bunch of us inside these buildings
(22:12):
to do this work so that those labels can't happen and.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Those things can't happen, right, yes.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
So talk to me about the definition of stardom in
this music industry, which I think is kind of transformed
over the years tremendously, And in your opinion, what kind
of defines like a music artist as a star in
today's digital age, because I think that's shifted the industry
(22:39):
as well.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Well.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
There's hit songs can't take away and hear record.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
And their stars. I really don't believe that stars. What
was a star, who was a star that in the
nineties would be a star today?
Speaker 3 (23:05):
It would not would be would wait?
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Okay, I still believe the essence of what a star
is when they walk in the room, they carry themselves
differently than anybody else that's in the room. I believe
that Dojakat, who is a current star, would be a
star in nineteen ninety eight, nineteen eighty eight, twenty eighteen,
(23:29):
and twenty twenty eight. So to me, when we say
a star in today's the industry, they're just not as many.
But the essence of the star hasn't changed.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
With Bruno Mars, what does brutal come to by? When
you gave the analogy of some way of being a
star in each kind of they get, would Bruno fallwood
in that mix for you? Yeah? I felt that because
when you just broke that down about Doja, I was like, wow,
what other artists do you can you see like being
a star in the eighties, nineties, maybe even the seventies,
(24:05):
and and Bruno was just like.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Bruno could have rocked the Grammy stage in the nineties easily,
and and and and and killed it then as much
as he could kill it today. So again, it's just
they're just not as many Brutos and Doja cats walking
around here. Since I think at the bar, I think
you listen, you know, I don't want to sound like
the old guy the club. I think the bar is yeah,
(24:30):
And I think you know, when you have a star man,
it's just when when you when when you come across
one of those that they're rare, you know what I mean,
And they're.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Just they're just hard to find.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
And and but yeah, yeah, but you know, you just
I don't want to sound like the old guy, but
to a degree, there was an error where we saw
artists or things developed, yes, mature, and and I do
think we're in an era now where the market and
the consumers look for it to be immediate microwave. I
(25:04):
call it the microwave area. We're very much in the
microwave era. We got to have some put in for
like thirty seconds and then needs to pop immediately. Where
you know, we come from a time where it was
the oven era, where you put something in, let that
thing marinate, operation marination, you got all the seasons kind
of worked together, and then it came out. It was
(25:25):
this magical experience. And I feel like that I don't
know if the appetite is there so much anymore for
that type of journey and that build.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
God, I tend to agree with you, Unfortunately, I say,
you know, not that there's any first week allum, tell anymore,
because no one does that anymore exactly. But to your point,
the artists development is kind of, you know, an antiquated
term these days. You know what I'm saying, and you.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Know, but a lot of.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
It has to be done on your own right. So
a lot of it is a lot of it is
you know, you're you're you're hustling, and you're you're you're
getting your songs out, You're putting your song as you
call it, just realid, getting your song on Spotify. You're
doing all this your own, you shooting your own content,
You're finding your own way.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
You know.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
My only thing when I wish there was more of
is that there were less people trying to be like
the guy next door of the artistic store. Right. I
believe that there was so much individualism when we were
growing up. Yeah, and and I think it's still out
there in some artistry. It's out there. But you know,
you know, I remember when Missy said something in a
(26:45):
while she was when she was in her in her
her heyday writing record, she just never listened to the radio.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
That's right, never to be influenced.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
But everything you got from her was authentically her, and
it wasn't in fluenced. It wasn't you know. And I
didn't think when she said it, it didn't come across
as from a very Erican standpoint. It just before I
got it, and I took it as the creativity came
from within. It flowed from within, It didn't need to
(27:12):
come from anywhere else.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
And I wish that there were more of that, that purity.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, listen, man, Like I tell people, we you know,
my phrase is that we all have our own fingerprints.
We should all have our own music, right, you know
what I mean? And it's like when when you were
when Eminem told you what eight mile was, you never
heard her eight mile before. You never wanted to go
to goddamn no eight mile?
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Thanks?
Speaker 2 (27:35):
When When?
Speaker 3 (27:36):
When? When?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
When? When?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
What you call?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Told you about East nineteen ninety Both thugs in Harvey
told you about East nineteen ninety nine in Cleveland. You
never knew what that was, but they brought you in
fact Motown fuck. You never heard of no Motown Philly.
When boys and me told you what Motown Philly was,
they you know, and they put the bow ties on.
They brought you to where they were. There was individuality
and everybody had their own individuality, you know, and they
(28:00):
brought their own thing, their own uniqueness to the table.
And I just believe, you know, when when when Drake
and everybody else put Toronto on, you know, they they
represented where they were from, and they brought this whole
thing and they brought it and it told you to
where there were, you know, where they were from. It
gave you some insight creatively, and they told their stories.
I just believe that's what's still missing. And he goes
back to even with outcasting and you know, and what
(28:22):
they did and they brought you.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
To Atlanta and you know, yeah, and it's and it's
not it's not being different for the sake of being different,
because when you when you try to do that, then
you're all going to look the same.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
As crazy as that sounds, but it's the the authenticity
of your point of differentiation, the purity of, like you said,
your fingerprint again, a beautiful analogy, and the reminder that
literally we all have a song, every one of us,
we all God has gifted us. We're all just stewarts
of these gifts. The hope is that we all get
(28:55):
to showcase whatever these gifts are, and some of them
in the conversation that we're having literal sense of a
song is beautiful. But we all have these songs. But
I think that the beauty of the individuality of it
and the authenticity of the storytelling, I think it is
so rich, which is what what you hit on. And
I look at today's landscape and the rise of streaming
(29:19):
platforms right and the weight consumer are accessing and experiencing
music has also changed. How has that kind of shifted
the influence your approach as like an A and R
to the development side of artists?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Another good question, good question. Listen, you know, no one
sends you demos anymore.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
It's all it's all I'm streaming.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
It's all streaming, streaming, so listen.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
So my approach is like, you know, I'll take a
listen to it all the you know, if it's up there,
I'll listen to it. I don't always care about streams, numbers,
none of that, because I believe that if you find
the right partner, somebody could elevate where you're going and
help the elevate your vision. But if the songs are amazing,
if the art is there and there's a connection between
(30:09):
the art and the artist, you know that's that's a
beautiful day for me at the dn R. You know,
if you if you can find that that that gem
and you build it. So for me, that's sort of
been just still my approach.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Right because I almost feel like, because remember there was
a there was a thing of breaking, breaking a new
artist or breaking new music, breaking new music? Is that
even the thing anymore? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
It is, but it doesn't happen as much, you know.
You know, we had a debate in my in my
office this time last year going into twenty twenty three,
and we were all sitting around and we were like,
no artist, no artists broke in twenty twenty two, and
you know, and everybody would be like, no, that's.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Not initially true.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
And then there's something who I really like a Jack
Harlow opened Jack Jack Harlowe came out in twenty whatever
and millionaires. But literally we were saying, no artists broke
in the pre in the previous year, people going back
and forth, but that thing said, artists come out, they
don't break, And I guess we can all determine what
breaking an artist is, right.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
That's all relatives.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
It's relative. I think at least if you have two
hit songs, and and and you you can you can
sell some hard tickets and there's a and there's an
anticipation for your next records. I think, to me, that's
that's an artist that broke.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
So that's the new definition for you.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, if you have multiple songs that you could stick
the microphone out for the crowd and they can sing
them back word for word, you know, you know, you
gotta you get the big stage of Coachella, coming into Coachella,
and and you have a hard ticket and people are
excited to get you know, when you're finally gonna hit
the road. You know about that, that's an artist that
(31:52):
that that's broken.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Who do you who do you think has had and
this is a very loaded question, but who do you
think has had the largest impact on shaping music culture?
Is there an individual or individuals or a movement that
you feel have been a significant played a significant role
in shifting music.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Culture, the business or the culture.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Look at you, Okay, you know what I want to
go both so that we can then go through the
differentiation of why and how you pose that.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Oh, Daniel Eck the business who Daniel Eck is from
a business perspective. I mean, listen, you know it's Spotify.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Is has changed everything.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
From a culture perspective, you know, I I.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
It's a great person. I always tell people that from
a historical standpoint, at least from my generation, La Read
La Reed was very significant, and I don't always believe
that people truly give him the flowers that he deserves
from his great of what he did. And when I
(33:13):
say what he did was he brought music to the
South right and culturally people when when you think about
the South, you think about, Okay, it's just hip hop,
it's just black music. That's not just. That's not true
at all. Because what La Red did, La Reed gave
voices to people like Jermaine Duprie, who's written big, the
(33:34):
biggest pop song for Mariah Carret He's given. He gave
Tricky Stewart his very first studio, who wrote on Bella
Flour Rihanna. He gave Dallas Austin his big some of
his his first biggest cuts, who's gone on the huge
records for Gwen Stefani and everybody else. He signed pick
so when people are understid he's signed Justin Bieber, so it.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Goes But l A.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Reed did. It goes far beyond just the face face
in urban music, far beyond so I genuine believe in
my generation, Eli Reed is the most responsible for what culture.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
And so now I could see why you wanted the
question to be broken up into two pieces because it's
it's a significant difference of one that kind of, for
lack of a better word, laid the foundation in terms
of the impact of what music can be. And that's
outside of just urban I et la Reed to what
(34:42):
Daniel has done with Spotify from a service that's kind
of changed the way in which we can soon listen
interact with music. So now that makes total sense for
me in terms of why you broke it down from
the beginning so personal. The tab documentary storyline of you
(35:06):
is about to come on. We've created the documentary about you,
and the opening scene to your life documentary is about
to begin. What song is playing and why, Oh.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Steve wad All I do is think of here, No
matter where I'm at, no matter how I'm feeling, the
moment that song comes on, it reminds me of all
good things in life. Its sonically, it is a warm blanket,
(35:41):
It's a sunny day even if it's ran outside listen.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
I don't know if you saw the smile that I
had when you said that song, because it brings that
level of joy to me every time I hear that song.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
And it's funny.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
During Michael Jackson's singing background.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Wait, Michael's singing background on that song.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
It's Michael jack said, all I do is think you
that's Michael sh Okay.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
You just took that to a whole other level for me.
I had no idea of that. But but you know
what so funny. During COVID, I took the time to
start compiling some of my favorite songs and making a
playlist because we obviously were all going through so many
different things, and I found that I needed a tool
or a resource that I could just go to it.
(36:26):
I knew, no matter what was happening, a smile and
joy was gonna come to my spirit. Based off of
this playlist, and obviously one of the first songs was
that for Sure, hands down, and Stevie had a ton
of songs on the playlist. Yeah, it's just that that
joy that you that you just talked about. He exudes
(36:50):
that on a number of this record. So I'm so
glad that you mentioned that as a song that's going
to be in the opening scene of your documentary.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
There you go on thousand said, I love it.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Well.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Look, we always end these with, you know, asking what
three seeds you don't want to leave with the stewarts
of culture moving forward? And these are three key elements
or things that you feel are going to be necessary
to equip those who are going to be you know,
shaping and molding culture as we know of moving forward
(37:24):
and the things that we deem so precious in our ips.
What would those three things.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Be three seeds of culture that I'd like to leave.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Well, three seeds. And when we make the correlation to seeds,
like a farmer right, farmers plant these seeds, they wanted them,
they nurture them, and they grow into these amazing beautiful
things or sometimes not based off of how they're cared for.
So what are the three things that you would impart
on the stewarts of culture moving forward to say these
(37:54):
are the three things I would recommend you being cognizant
enough and employing and activating and being cognizant of no
matter what.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Okay, I'd plant one seed and then I'd open the package, see,
and it would be individuality, and I would build out.
I would say, as I plant that, see the individuality
from what grows there should be uniquely yourself, uniquely it's
its own thing. Oh, plant that fertilize it developed it individual.
(38:33):
The second thing I would I think I would plant
a plant, the plant, the seed of global uh. Except
you know, the world is very big. And it's funny
because I was just last last summer, I was went
to a bunch of rolling louds.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
There its rolling lout in Portugal.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
The people didn't even realize that there was. That there's
all these rolling loves that are taking place globally, and
how much our music takes, you know, is shaping every thing.
So I believe it's important for and I love what
our artists get on plays and they realize that they
you know that there's people who don't speak the language,
but they're sitting there singing your record word for word
that you made in your bedroom, and the world is
(39:13):
musically the world is flat. It's sonically flat. And I
think it's important to understand that, you know, although you
make music for your area, for your hood and your
boys and your people, that there's a big world out
there too, and I think it's and for good for
artists in the MIDI travel and see the world. H
(39:34):
Third thing I would plant, man, I think it would
just be like, let's just treat each other well. Man,
let's just treat each other well, like you know, uh
uh see the peace.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
And you know that for me, peace is everything. And
I'm so glad you closed with that. And even your
first one of individuality just plays back to you know,
when you were walking through the different artists and their
impact of when you know, the outcasts of the world
or the eminem of the world, and how impactful they
(40:08):
were by kind of painting the pictures of where they
were from in a very authentic way. Just imagine that
we all applied that to everything that we do that
comes from within you, we'd be so much more of
a colorful, bright, vibrant society and culture. So I thank
(40:31):
you for those and I really want to thank you
for this time. You know, I did not know you
personally coming into this and obviously doing my research and
figuring out tons of mutual friends and obviously the work
that you've done, and I just want to applaud you
for the work. But I'm more so, I'm more so
really excited about the work that you're going to do
(40:52):
moving forward. And I think when you talk about your
affinity for maintaining the integrity of the African diast bring
the music that comes from it right and the way
that you're kind of advising us to approach it right
in terms of having the footprint on the continent, doing
the things and empowering those who are of the culture
(41:14):
and within the continent to ensure that we do this
thing a little bit differently than what we've done in
the past. And for that alone, I truly want to
thank you to applaud you.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Thank you, my brother.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
I really appreciate this man, and I love what you're
gouty are doing. It's so funny. I just got to
call in the tweet that now was Tim wetherscoone.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
By the way, of course one we all need to
get out for a round of golf and you get.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Tell you, yeah, man, I want to come to Portland.
It's so funny. But Portland is a city that I've
never been to. I've flown over, I've been to Vancouver
a billion times, I've been everywhere. But yes, I need
to get to Portland, and I will get to Portland
this coming year.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
For sure, we'll make it happen. I thank you again,
and let's forward to building more.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Thank you so much for that.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
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Host
Astor Chamber
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