January 24, 2024 • 48 mins
Join Kari and Casey as they discuss the benefits of pre-game boundary setting, and why most arguments occur.
Mentions in this episode
Nightshade Burlesque
Sexual Health Alliance
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kari (00:00):
Well, here we are another episode.
And this has been such a greatmonth for us, beginning of the
year.
January of
Casey (00:07):
2024.
It's been great.
We've seen a lot of people thatare not happy already with 2024.
I know, and I
Kari (00:13):
feel so bad for them because I'm over here like,
Dude, this is fucking great.
Casey (00:17):
We're sorry you're dealing with that, but however,
Yeah.
We are enjoying 2024 so far.
We've booked some new stuff.
We've learned some new things.
We've planned some new things.
I mean, we have a lot going
Kari (00:29):
for us.
I think this is going to be agood year.
Not just because you will beclosely finishing within your
SHA, but because I'm like newlystarting it's just, you know, I
changed my schedule behind thechair.
You have a new scheduleyourself.
Like we're going to get intothis whole new flow and I'm
honestly super excited for it.
Casey (00:49):
It's been good.
What are some big changes thatwe're going through right now?
Oh, I booked a shoot for thenext couple of weeks.
I'm excited.
You'll hear more details aboutthese for these photographers
and their studio as we getcloser.
But this was just recentlybooked.
So I'll be going in and doingacting as a rigger to tie up
some some boudoir
Kari (01:09):
models.
Dude, it's actually a reallycool gig that you got signed up
for because it's yes, you get tobe the rigger, but we've never
experienced having 10photographers around us at the
same time.
That's gonna be kind of
Casey (01:23):
cool.
Well, there's definitely adifference between having where
we go to a photo shoot.
We have some fun.
We're playing around.
This is more of like.
Getting out there and getting abunch of photographers at once.
I've done
Kari (01:34):
something like this in the past where all these
photographers met up and we hadmodels and I ended up being one
of the models, but we, I'veexperienced something like this
before.
And it was a fucking blast, butfor us to get to experience this
through you tying.
That aspect of you tying is new.
How do you feel about like 10people around you just shooting?
(01:57):
Like all you're going to hear
Casey (01:58):
is see this is exciting For me mostly because yeah, like
what you're saying, I haven'tdone a meetup before with a
whole bunch of photographers.
So it's going to give a lot ofexperience to that.
And then working with multiplemodels at the same time.
Including you are going to beone of them.
So we're going to have differentpeople coming in.
So working with different bodytypes, working with different
(02:18):
ties.
The planning is what I'm mostexcited about.
Really?
Yeah.
We were, I mean, you know, wewere just at lunch and we were
talking about what ties do youwant to do?
How intricate do we want to get?
Like, what's going to be themost time efficient?
What's going to be the most likebest way to express this
person's body type with theseties.
Exactly.
Kari (02:35):
And that's one of the things that I liked the most
about when they had reached outto us.
It was almost one of the firstthings that they said is that
we're looking for differentbody.
They wanted body diversity forsure.
Yeah.
Which is fucking finally, Idon't know.
I just, I love that they saidthat like they didn't have to
lead with that.
It's a Bajor shoot with ropeswith you.
And they're like, Hey, but don'tjust have this be like the
(02:57):
average, let's get some uniqueuniqueness in there.
And that's kind of what we justdiscussed at lunch is like, this
is their body type.
How can we accentuate.
That type and then
Casey (03:08):
vice versa.
Well, so for example, we weretalking about you, you got a big
old booty.
I got a big old ass.
So we were like, all right.
So what sort of harnesses can wemake along like your lower half
to really draw attention?
It's going on.
How can we take that sweet assthat you have?
Stop it.
I swear to God.
And put a tie on there to makeit look even better than it
already
Kari (03:27):
does.
Yeah.
No, I love that.
We're super excited for thisshoot.
And like, this isn't our first,it's not going to be our last.
We do a lot of stuff like thisand more that we're wanting to
start sharing, you know, withy'all through, through the show
and everything
Casey (03:40):
else that we're doing.
So stay tuned for that.
I mean, you know how big we areand especially the fact that
there are being more a bodydiverse, you know how much we
are in a body diversity, whichis, we've got that coming up
with nightshade as always.
As
Kari (03:53):
always with nightshade.
And so again, nightshadeburlesque, you've heard us talk
about it a hundred times over.
It is the first Friday of everysingle month, and this month is
the first time that they'rehaving a live band at.
Cicada.
Casey (04:08):
Yes.
We, they've done live bandsbefore, whatever they performed
at tulips.
Yes.
This time they're doing it at acicada.
I'm excited to see how it goes.
So
Kari (04:17):
I even got to see a little bit of a tease earlier with one
of the girls that we follow.
You probably just happened tomiss it, but it showed like the
entire band and her like livingroom while they're doing
practice.
like, Oh my God, I love this.
It's so cool.
Casey (04:30):
I know what you're talking
Kari (04:30):
about.
Yeah.
It's this like, and actually I'mnot gonna say what it is.
I'm not going to, but I thinkit's really cool.
To have like a live
Casey (04:37):
man that was like the band for those performing.
I thought that was just like arandom thing.
I was like, Oh, y'all just haverandom jazz bands performing in
your living room.
Okay.
Kari (04:47):
But yeah, so we're super excited about that.
And you know, it still holds, wehave two seats available for
nightshade burlesque.
This is your absolute last weekto enter in two seats.
Yes.
Complimentary.
Like we've already paid for it.
You come be our guest, hang outand see the performance.
So again, you have to email comewith Casey at gmail.
(05:09):
com that's C U M W I T C H K C.
At gmail.
com, but that is the only way toenter and just you know She has
an email that says hey me and mypartner or me and my friend or
whatever.
Yeah want to be there we got theseats.
We got the table.
We got you covered.
It's going to be a great fuckingshow as always Yeah, I love when
(05:32):
you just stare at me.
So let's go into the show todaybecause what really brought into
Our topic was something that yougot to hear on your over the
weekend.
Yeah, that's right.
Casey (05:44):
So over this last weekend as I do a few times a year, I
hooked up with the, with these,with Shaw, the Sexual Health
Alliance, which Carrie and I areboth students of.
I am on their counselor track.
Carrie is on their coachingtrack so we can help bring you
guys more authentic.
Discussions and advice for ourclients versus just doing it
from personal experience, whichis most of what you see out
(06:05):
there.
That is a ramp for a second,please.
I do not know that I S I promiseyou, I'm going to God, this is
going to be bad.
I'm going to sound, I'm going tooffend somebody right here.
I'm getting very tired of themarketing.
Coming from people that's likethe reason that I am a coach is
because I didn't orgasm until Iwas 25, 30 years old.
(06:27):
So therefore, because I learnedhow to, now I can show everyone
else how to.
Kari (06:32):
In my opinion though, and I'm like, I've been orgasming
since 14, like I actuallyprobably know more about orgasm
than you do.
If you didn't, until you were25, like, I just, I get your
point.
Like what makes you this likescholar of opinion when it just
happened to you?
Well, a lot of
Casey (06:50):
times those people that are, I've experienced something
like this, they'll go andthey'll start their research.
Right.
And they'll go through untilthey find something that works
for them.
So like it's dip for me to doit.
I've never done it.
So now I'm going to try this.
And I'm going to try this.
I'm going to try this.
I'm going to try that.
So now they're holding onto allthat stuff.
They found the thing that worksfor them.
And so now it goes, well, nowfrom my personal experience,
same thing with other marriedcouples that you're like, Hey,
(07:12):
we coach.
Couples for essentially marriagecoaching.
Yeah, but all of that is basedupon personal experience.
We wanted to take it a stepfurther.
Yeah, and add academia into it.
Exactly.
Kari (07:23):
Like we do have a lot of experience.
Of course, we've been togetherforever and we've been through a
lot, but that's not enough forme to sit there and say that,
like, I'm going to confidence.
Aspect of marriage.
I know our aspect of marriage,but I don't know everyone's.
And so it was super importantfor us to like educate ourselves
further to one, be morebeneficial to our clients.
(07:48):
But also I think set us asidefrom some of the
Casey (07:50):
standards.
Well, I had a friend of minethat had made a video not too
long ago and I have high respectfor him.
He's actually a chiropractor.
I think he's in Florida and hewas talking, he was like, out of
all the things that are outthere and all the things that
work, there's things that workfor you, but they might not work
right now.
You might not be in the placefor this thing to work for you.
(08:10):
And it might be a very popularthing at the time he was talking
about.
I think ice baths and like coldplunges and being like, that's a
great thing and it has a hugehealth benefits, but it may not
be what works best for you rightnow.
So that was part of what we'resaying is be, we don't want to
just.
Give you advice off personally,I think in part that's
irresponsible.
We wanted to add another layerto it to make sure that we're up
(08:33):
to date on everything thatincludes like journal
subscriptions to highlyaccredited sex research journals
and making sure that we arecontinuing education students
and making sure that we'relearning from the top
researchers in the field.
So we can figure out the bestways, not only the best
information to deliver, but thebest ways in which to deliver
it.
So that's.
(08:54):
My little rant for that period,but this whole weekend, this
past weekend, I was on withsexual health Alliance and we
were talking a lot about we weretalking about a lot about sexual
fluidity.
So the whole purpose of theweekend was about overcoming
like, I would think it was likegoing from sexual trauma to
sexual triumph.
And we talked about a lot aboutabuse.
(09:14):
We talked about child abuse.
We talked about trauma.
We talked about sexual fluidity.
We talked about what it wouldlike, what, Oh God, what was
the, one of the big ones that wehad talked about?
We talked about Sexualorientation versus erotic
orientation, which we're goingto do an entire episode on this
because it deserves an episode.
It was so great.
And I'm not even going to gointo a lot about what it is.
(09:35):
The only thing I'll say about itis that it's the difference
between saying the orientationthat you have of who you're
attracted to in terms of allthat versus acted to in terms of
things that arouse you, such aspornography or Or readings or
things and what that centersaround.
So that was an interesting one.
But the quote that you'retalking about, right?
(09:56):
So
Kari (09:56):
like you came to me.
This is probably Friday orSaturday.
Oh, this is Sunday evening.
Oh, was it really?
Okay.
So you came to me with thisquote.
And I'm like, that's an amazingfucking quote.
Like that could be an entireepisode.
So here we are making it anentire episode.
What we're talking to you.
(10:17):
Memorize the quote.
Casey (10:18):
I believe I need to like, I think I have it.
I can read off my notes.
I can paraphrase it.
We have been talking.
You and I have been havingdiscussion about boundary
setting and about discussionsand relationships.
And we were listening to Dr.
Joe court.
Who is, who was doing this wholeweek in disgust and he actually
quoted Dr.
Marty Klein, there's anotherperson that we're highly
respectful of who had saidsomething along the lines of
(10:41):
like, whenever it comes tocouples, most arguments around
boundaries, most arguments areabout contracts that no one ever
made.
If you want to, if you want tosay anything on to like what the
actual code is,
Kari (10:56):
but I mean what I have written down is yes, most
arguments amongst couples centeraround breaking contracts that
were never
Casey (11:03):
written.
Yes.
So for the most part, what wemean by that is.
Is that a lot of people go intorelationships, long term
relationships, and you havethese assumptions about what
your boundaries are, the sexualvalues of another person, or
what the boundaries of the otherperson might be.
You never have these discussionsaround, is it okay to Like what
(11:25):
is flirting mean to you andwhat's okay and what's not
Kari (11:28):
okay?
I mean, I can look back at ourrelationship and we never sat
down and I wouldn't have eventhought to have that
conversation.
Honestly
Casey (11:35):
No You know into it making those assumptions.
Yeah, we're all everybody hasbeen so and to be like This is
the way that love works And thisis the way that relationships
work that from the perspectiveof someone that has been just
driven through that narrativefrom a young age You don't know
anything outside of that I thinkto ask the questions of, does
(11:56):
this person have a differentperspective on various acts than
I do or what it means to dothese things.
So one, like a personal examplethat we had from early in our
relationship, which we've talkedabout on the show before is like
you making out with friends,same sex, but making out with
friends.
Kari (12:12):
Yeah.
That was not something that wehad ever discussed, but in all
honesty, I never thought that Ineeded to.
But that was just my ignoranceto our relationship, to our own
boundaries.
Because again, I broke acontract that I never knew we
had written.
Casey (12:25):
You had never made that contract.
I never said I couldn't make outwith my friends.
But it wasn't anything you hadnever asked.
Like, Hey, are you okay withthis?
Is this something that, thatbothers you?
And we have to, we have alwayshave to reiterate that it's not
boundaries and stuff like thisaren't necessarily about the
other person, you, if like.
(12:47):
this is what I say.
How does that make you feel?
I enjoy going out and making outwith my friends.
How do you feel about that?
Is that something that
Kari (12:55):
bothers you?
And like I said, I just, I neverwould have even thought to ask
that.
Yeah.
And I think that's why this issuch a, an important topic to
discuss because this doesn'thappen at the beginning of your
relationship.
This can happen at any point ofyour relationship.
It should
Casey (13:10):
happen all throughout your relationship.
Yeah.
At least the discussion on it.
Yeah.
But it absolutely, you can foryears and years and you have
this continuing argument and youdon't realize that you never
even had the discussion about isthis, how does each of you feel
about this particular act, thisparticular subject and the same
way you have so many people thatgo into therapy where one person
(13:31):
approaches the therapist andsays, my partner has a problem.
I think that they're a sexaddict, which if you've listened
before, you know, that we firmlybelieve that sex addiction does
not exist.
But they'll go into them andsay, well, my partner watches
porn a lot.
Kari (13:45):
Well, I mean, honestly, this was an issue that we had.
Yeah.
This was an issue we had earlyon in our relationship.
It was, we had never discussedporn.
And so when I was on yourcomputer and I found a bunch of
fucking porn, I was like, Whatthe fuck dude?
Exactly.
And again, obviously, no, Ididn't handle that well, but
(14:06):
that was me feeling like youbroke a contract.
That we never even discussed.
We had never had thatdiscussion.
And so sometimes it's like, youdon't know what you don't know.
So it is hard to like pre planthese type of discussions, but
what we hope that you gain fromthis conversation is to realize
(14:26):
that you do personally haveboundaries for your relationship
that you have might not discloseto your partner.
I don't give a shit how longyou've been together.
There are certain aspects that.
You are not okay with that.
Maybe you and your partner havejust not come across.
Yeah,
Casey (14:42):
you have those built in decisions that you've made that
you've set boundaries foryourself for, but you don't,
you've never had the discussionwith the partner and you haven't
come out and said, listen here'swhat I enjoy and we need to have
a discussion around that or.
Here's what I'm bothered by.
And we need to have a discussionaround that.
Kari (15:00):
And I guess I brought up like, you don't know what you
don't know because sometimessituations arise and you don't
know how you're going to feelabout it until you're in it.
That's when we talk aboutrelationship check ins.
Having that time to sit down andsay, which I do feel like, let's
go ahead and bring in thatpoint.
And it was another quote thatyou had received from this
weekend.
(15:21):
Do you, if you already know whatI'm talking about, then go ahead
and quote.
I'll do what we wrote downearlier.
So, it was saying that givingthe safe space to hear something
that they may not.
Want to hear so if you'rebringing oh, okay.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, right.
You're bringing something to meKnowing that I might actually be
(15:42):
upset with this but as areceiving in from the person
that's hearing that message
Casey (15:48):
So the rest of that quote is centered around how can I
expect my partner to be honestwith me?
well the answer to that is yourpartner is going to be as Honest
with you as they see and yourreactions to hearing something.
You don't want to hear Clarify.
If I were to come to you,Carrie, and I told you something
that maybe I'd done or I wasinterested in, or I thought
(16:11):
about and your reaction to thatis very negative and it creates
argument and it's handled in avery like emotionally negative
way, me.
And this is most people, thismay be conscious, this may be
unconscious, but now you'regoing to second guess telling
your partner things because younow know what don't want to
(16:32):
create the conflict of thatnegative reaction.
And you might have fear centeredaround that negative reaction.
You might have frustration oranger centered around that
negative reaction, but you nolonger are going to be fully
honest with them because nowyou're going, well, if I tell
them they're just going to get.
Pissed off about it, even ifit's something that you don't
know that where they, that theywill or not, you're going to go
and associate that last time ofsaying, I did this thing and I
(16:54):
told you about it and you'reactually flipped out on me now
later.
And even if it was like lateron, it was like, no, it's
completely cool, but the we hangon to those in the moment
reactions.
So in is that your your partneryour is sorry, you are only
going to be as honest as yourpartner's reaction to something
(17:16):
they don't want to hear.
Kari (17:17):
And so the thing with that is like, you can't, you don't
get to know how you'repersonally going to feel about
something that your partnertells you.
You don't know how you're goingto feel.
But I think that whenever wetalked a lot about relationship
check ins.
I think it's super important tosay during this check in or
(17:38):
during this next moment, say Iwould like to be able to be
vulnerable with you and tell yousomething and that you may not
love and you may not want tohear but I'm asking your
permission to tell you.
And I think that allows thepartner.
To have the opportunity tocontrol how they feel.
(18:02):
I think there's a differencebetween blindsiding.
Casey (18:05):
Nobody wants to just be thrown something out of
Kari (18:07):
nowhere.
So if you bring something toyour partner that they weren't
expecting, and then they freakout and then you're mad that
they freak out, did you givethem the safe space to tell them
something that they weren'tready to hear?
Right.
Or are you just blurting shitout?
Right.
So it goes both ways.
Not only hearing theinformation, preface it with,
(18:28):
Hey.
I would like to have a check inwith you.
I would like to be able to talkwith you about something and
giving them the opportunity tonot be incited by the
information, like don't do it inthe morning in passing and just
like, let me tell you this, andthen I'm just going to expect
you to respond.
Well, you can't do that either.
So it does go both ways.
(18:48):
That's why we've talked aboutlike setting aside time for
check ins because that is reallyimportant to allow both of you
to be in the headspace that youneed to
Casey (18:55):
be in.
And at the bare minimum ofthose.
Just letting your partner, youwant to talk about you want to
talk about a subject.
It doesn't have to be like, Hey,I need to tell you something.
This is super serious.
And this is relationship endingor anything like that.
But it could be like, Hey, I'dlike to set aside some time this
evening whenever we're both freeto just have a
Kari (19:13):
chat.
And let, and maybe that is aboutporn.
Maybe that is like, Hey I've notdisclosed this to you yet.
This is something that I want tobe able to feel comfortable to
tell you about.
It could be.
Maybe masturbation.
What if I came to you, Casey,and I was like, I'm going to do
a relationship check in and letyou know how many times I
(19:35):
masturbate in a week.
And to some, for you, you'd belike, that's fucking hot.
But to another person, they'd belike, why do you do that?
Yeah.
Why do you feel the need tomasturbate?
You
Casey (19:44):
have me, which is super selfish, by the way, it
Kari (19:48):
is, but also understand the very beginning of our
relationship.
I got insecure when you wouldmasturbate.
Now we were so young.
And I didn't know half thefucking shit I know now when it
comes
Casey (19:58):
to relationships.
Which is one of the reasons wereiterate to people that they
need to be educated on actualsexuality versus receiving the
bare minimum that they doreceive throughout, throughout,
like, I don't know, middleschool and early high school
education that you need to havesome.
Further education on sex andsexuality and what that means
for relationships.
(20:18):
What is healthy and what'sunhealthy because we have way
too many people that are poorlyeducated than what sex is and
what arouses people and howsexuality plays a role in
people's lives.
Kari (20:31):
But again, it's just.
It's very important.
And to try to sit down and havethese conversations.
I mean, what were some of theother examples we wrote down the
flirting with friends, makingout with friends, the porn, the
masturbation is a big onebecause it is because it's
subjective.
Yeah.
Flirting your opinion offlirting is not my opinion of
flirting,
Casey (20:50):
right?
Yeah.
If we're out and about andyou're flirting with somebody
like nowadays.
If we have had the discussionaround it, then that's a
completely different story.
But if it's
Kari (20:59):
a, we'll have those discussions the night of we will
do that ever.
And no, and it's a greatdiscussion.
It's kind of playful and fun.
Casey (21:08):
I'd be like, where's your head out head at tonight?
Like I know I'm feeling in aoutgoing, expressive mood.
How would you feel if I was likeflirting with someone?
Kari (21:17):
And then we've also had nights where it was like, yeah,
just us tonight.
Like, let it just be us.
And.
I, again, I love thoseconversations beforehand.
There is a drive to anywhere yougo.
You don't just levitate to theplace you're going, right?
Yeah.
Like get in the, set thoseboundaries when you get in the
car and figure out the type ofnight that you want to
Casey (21:38):
have.
Yeah.
What are our goals for tonight?
What are our sexual goals fortonight?
What are our intimacy
Kari (21:42):
goals tonight?
Are goals?
What are our active goals?
What are our, I'm not reallyfeeling very social tonight.
I, and I would be morecomfortable if you were with me
or.
I'm not feeling very socialtonight, but I want you to go
and explore and have a
Casey (21:53):
great time, which is honestly great because we've had
nights where we've gone outwhere I've been like super
introvert, not as in a socialmood, but I still want to be out
and about.
And that that drives into youbeing like, well, I'm like, but
that allows you to be out andhaving fun and you don't have to
(22:13):
turn to look at me and be like,Hey, is everything okay?
Are you all right?
What's going on with you?
Or I can be like, no, I'm fine.
I'm just sitting here, peoplewatching because I love people
watching,
Kari (22:24):
but I love that though, because right.
Most arguments amongst couplescenter around breaking
contracts.
They never written.
They had never written that canstill go to the day to day that
go to the event that you'regoing to, because if we don't
predetermine how we want ournight to go or even discuss it,
and I were to do something thatupset you, I didn't know that
was going to upset you.
(22:45):
Yeah.
And so that statement does nothave to go to relationship as a
whole, that statement can go to.
When you go out, when, whatevermindset you need to be in for
that day, like we don't want youto think of this such as like,
Oh no, that statements again isjust like a relationship as a,
you know, a whole, no, this canbe a daily conversation.
Casey (23:04):
Yeah, it can be whenever it's necessary and how you deem
is necessary is really up toyou.
A lot of those things going out,this especially speaks towards
people that are maybe familiarwith their attachment style.
This is when we've talked abouta lot in private has been, if
you know, your attachment styleand you're out and about with a
partner and your attachmentstyle becomes.
(23:26):
Activated through whateverbehaviors they're expressing as
the person seeing it.
So me as the person seeing itand experiencing it and feeling
myself getting worked up andfrustrated, if I know where my
head space is at in that moment,then I can do things.
I can use the activationstrategies to make sure that it
doesn't escalate into some sortof fight.
Kari (23:47):
Can I ask you what would be just a very small example?
Because I already feel likeyou're going into a topic.
That's an amazing episode.
Yeah, for sure.
But what if you do find yourselfin one of those situations?
What would be a deactivatinglike
Casey (24:00):
strategy?
That one's interesting becauseyou don't want to, if you start
finding yourself getting intoone of those places, you don't
want to end the night becausenow you're taking away from your
partners or partners experiencewhenever you're the one having
the emotions.
Yeah.
What, and it may be results intosome of their behavior and you
need to be able to communicatethat.
You are seeing behaviors out ofthem that are activating to you.
(24:23):
And so my, one of my favoritethings to do.
Is to actually if we're all stepoutside, I will, and this
happens to me too, even outsideof being
Kari (24:33):
with me, I've seen you do, or all of a sudden you're like,
ah, this is too muchstimulation.
I need to step out for a minute
Casey (24:38):
that works with me, even if I'm being activated, like my,
some of my anxiety is gettingactivated or something.
But what I like to do is juststep outside for a few minutes
and take a few deep breaths andjust kind of be by myself for a
second and I think that's greatdown, calm down overthinking
because as a lot of times we area little bit conditioned to do
(25:00):
is that we go towards worst casescenario.
I see my partner being a littlebit too friendly with, in my
opinion, too friendly withsomeone.
And then it's like.
No, must mean that my partnerwants to fuck him.
Must mean that they're like, nowwhat are they going to do?
Go and exchange Instagramhandles and start messaging each
other.
And now they're going to createsome relationship behind your
back.
Your mind tends to go towardsworst case scenario and steps
(25:23):
away from logical.
This is like, this could easilybe just a friendly conversation.
So if you remove yourself out ofit and you know, work on taking
about 10 minutes of just fewdeep breaths and kind of
thinking through the situationof being like, Okay.
We're not going to discuss itright now.
We've shit.
You should discuss it becauseyou need to be able to tell your
(25:44):
partner what's bothering you.
But if you just take it to belike, look, stop thinking this
is the worst case.
This could be employee a littlebit of stoicism of being like, I
know that I'm not like the onlything I control right now is my
own self.
So let's focus on stop trying toreprimand my partner for their
behavior and let me focus oncontrolling my own emotions and
(26:08):
bringing myself out of thatplace.
And I think that's
Kari (26:10):
super important to be able to realize that, like, what can
I do to calm the situationversus like, what can I do
emotionally driven to elevatethe situation?
And then
Casey (26:23):
Then you should be able to come back from that and go to
your partner at the, at a time.
Now, if you're out and about andyou're all drinking everything,
it's not a good time.
Never.
I don't care what you're doing,what it is, it's not a good
time.
Kari (26:34):
Never, ever.
It's not a good time to have thediscussion.
No, you don't have arelationship check in when y'all
have been drinking, you know,for the whole dinner or
whatever.
Like, that's not when you
Casey (26:43):
do that.
Yeah.
Wait till the next day.
Control yourself.
Wait till the next day, becausewe can
Kari (26:47):
all admit that if we have been drinking, that does alter
our like ability to rationalizewhatever information we're
given.
Not all.
Casey (26:56):
Well, not only is it, does it inhibit my ability to.
Properly communicate with you.
It's going to inhibit yourability to fully comprehend and
receive whatever language I'mspeaking and appropriately
respond versus emotionallyresponding.
So it's important to kind of await a little bit, but you
should be able to go to yourpartner and be like, okay,
(27:18):
listen.
So what happened was, you know,this is what I noticed.
This is the behavior that Iwitnessed.
And this is what kind ofactivated me.
Maybe it's activating like yourinsecurity of being like, well,
are, you know, are you.
Who are you talking to?
Why are you talking to them?
What's going on over there?
Versus like, why are you notspending time with me?
I'm over here.
I feel abandoned and alone.
So you need to be able toexpress those at a time next
(27:40):
day, whenever.
It's in a better place toactually
Kari (27:44):
discuss it.
But which again, kind of bringsme back to setting the tone for
the night beforehand, if I knowthat we are going to go out,
this is what we're doing.
However, you are, or I are in astate of, I'm just gonna say
neediness.
Yeah, if I know that I'm goinginto a night with you where
you're feeling more needy, thatgives me the opportunity to give
(28:08):
you what you need whilefulfilling my own needs.
But if I didn't know how youfelt that night and you were
feeling a little extra touchy,you're feeling a little extra
needy or whatever, and I had noclue.
And out of a fault of my own, Iwould be doing my own thing
without the mental mindset of,Oh, Hey, this is what his needs
are tonight.
It's very important to havethese like daily check.
(28:31):
I mean, not daily, but likesituational check ins on top of
just relationship check.
Yeah.
Casey (28:37):
And it's the same whenever we're out with friends.
And I mean, we've witnessedbefore another couple is where
you have someone that we'rehanging out with and maybe their
partner goes off and theydisappear for like 30, 45
minutes.
And we're all just kind ofsitting there.
We're all having our talk.
But you can tell that thepartner is like is taken aback
by their partner's behavior.
It's something that should bediscussed beforehand.
(28:58):
Hey, like, here's what we'redoing tonight.
Like we're going to go out andwe're going to hang out with
these people.
I would like to try to keep itin our group.
We all go out and we have a goodtime setting those kind of
expectations for the night, orat least.
For the night and being able toopenly communicate about them is
key to making everyone has agood evening and it doesn't
result in, you know, a falloutof any sort.
(29:21):
And there
Kari (29:21):
was a little bit of like advice and this was something
that I had heard.
You know, I'm just like swipingreels online lately.
And I've been following a lot oflike.
Relationship, counseling,coaching, like pages, especially
now that I'm in as SHA now.
And there was one that I saw ina lady was basically saying
like, listen, ladies, if youfind yourself out with your
(29:44):
partner and there are thingsthat happen that do upset you.
And it was saying like, fromwomen and our perspective is if
we don't say it, and if we don'taddress it.
It's going to happen again, orI'm going to forget, or it's not
going to be taken as seriousbecause it wasn't in the moment.
I really liked what she said.
(30:05):
She's write it down.
We all have notes in our phone.
This doesn't have to be a blowup right then in the moment.
We've been drinking all night.
This upset me.
I have the wherewithal to say,let me write this down.
I know this needs to be adiscussion, but this is not the
time or the place because itgoes right back to the quote
that you had just said, giventhe safe space to hear something
(30:27):
they may not want to hear a bar.
It's not a safe space to hearsomething that you don't want to
hear.
Casey (30:34):
High energy with alcohol involved is not the space to
have that discussion.
Having said that, you have tofind a balance because if you
were to come to me the next dayand be like, listen, here's a
laundry list of all this, you
Kari (30:47):
in the bathroom and you didn't ask me to go to the
bathroom and I'm pissed.
No, we're not saying likenitpick your partner,
Casey (30:54):
some girl complimented you and you said,
Kari (30:56):
how
Casey (30:59):
dare you?
It's like those reels onlinethat you see.
It's like how I expect my man toact and like throw their drink
in their faces and all that.
And you're going, no, that's aheavily insecure couple to be
like, listen, if someone talksto you, you better like scream
at them and tell them to fuckoff.
Kari (31:16):
But I think it's fair to.
Hey, like we were out and Inoticed that your hand went to
the bottom of someone's back andyou guided her into the room and
that made me uncomfortable.
It's okay to set aside time likethat.
And you could even say, youdon't have to say I have a list
of shit you did.
You're going to say, Hey, in themorning when we are in a better
(31:37):
headspace, I would really liketo talk to you.
Or if you already know that'sgoing to set off your partner
and they're like, no, tell menow.
You can't wait until the morningand be like, Hey we woke up,
like, I just, I kind of wantedto disclose some things that
bothered me about last night andI didn't want to make it a big
deal then because that issetting boundaries for the next
time while not interrupting.
(31:59):
The experience that you had thenight before and I've done that.
I've done that.
And so there have been like,okay, this kind of bothered me,
but this isn't the time or theplace and have always thanked
myself the next morning for notsaying something in that night,
because whether you realize itor not, it will be a fight.
Casey (32:16):
Ooh, prime example.
Oh, I thought of an example.
One thing that we've seen in thepast is people like we'll go out
and we were in Texas.
So we'll go out to bars orsomething where they'll have a
dance floor and there will bepeople dancing and you're out
with friends and there'sstranger, whatever it is.
You might be a couple where oneof the partners is big on
dancing and one of them is like,well, not me and the other
(32:36):
partner in the moment is like,are you cool if I dance with
this person?
Yeah.
You're putting a lot on yourother partner for them to say
yes, because it's in thatmoment.
And if they are the personthat's like, no, I'm not cool
with that.
Then it's great.
Debbie downer, you know, we'rejust having a good time.
It's no big deal.
But then whenever they, if theydo say yes, like it's kind of an
expectation and you may begenuinely cool with that.
(32:57):
That's okay.
But then if it's something thatyou're not comfortable with and
you're watching your partner outdancing with someone else and
you're getting more activatedand you're getting frustrated
and then whenever they're done,you're just like, well, what the
fuck was that?
It's something that you can talkabout the following day.
Hey, listen, or even before yougo out,
Kari (33:14):
I was about to say, I said, that would have been a
great example of, Hey, we'regoing out tonight, we're going
to step in.
Casey, I fucking, you know, Isuck at two step in and you
really wanted to dance, thenthat would be an opportunity
before we even went out in thecar, right on the way there for
you to say, Hey, Carrie, wouldyou be okay if I danced with
(33:35):
another woman, like that wouldbe setting the tone
appropriately.
And then if.
You did something in the dancethat made me uncomfortable that
would, should be, in my opinion,something that was brought up in
a sober,
Casey (33:50):
I thought it was great up until you dipped her head
between your legs.
Yeah.
Kari (33:55):
Her up in your face, you know, like that was all right.
Like there is a time and a placeto set aside.
We're not set aside, but just tobring up the things that, yeah.
It's
Casey (34:06):
supposed to be in the safe.
Nonjudgmental, where we haveconsent, comfort, and proper
communication to
Kari (34:14):
could be, like, the night before we go dancing, we had
this conversation, you're like,Kara, I'd really like to dance
with someone.
I'm like, have at it.
And then something upsets me.
I'm now going to know that thenext morning, I'm going to ask
you.
Do I have your permission totell you something
Casey (34:29):
that I'd like to talk to you about?
I would like to talk to youabout?
Yeah.
I'd like to talk to you aboutlast night and kind of how that
went.
Are you up for that right now?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's really,
Kari (34:35):
I, I think it's completely fair to get permission to tell
something to the person thatmight upset them.
Yeah.
Because again, like justcompletely like blurting it out
or blindsiding them, like youdon't know what headspace
they're in that time.
And if you're the person that'sreceiving that, you come to me
and say, Hey, care, I reallywant to tell you something.
And I'm like, I've had the worstfucking day and this is not the
(34:59):
time to tell me, give me thatopportunity to tell you, you
don't get to make thatassumption.
See, I
Casey (35:04):
think that's actually a really good point and very clear
communication from coming fromyou right now is to be like,
Hey, if you want to tell me, ifyou need to tell me something,
but you know, I'm not in a goodhead space, you don't get to
make that call.
Yeah, let me know that you wantto talk to me.
And then all in turn tell youlike, Hey, I'm in the headspace
for that right now.
Or like, well, let's just talkabout it tomorrow.
Yeah.
(35:24):
That's like, I actually reallylike that.
I think that's fair.
Kari (35:27):
You know, but then at the same time, if you were to come
to me and say, Hey, I want totalk about it.
I'm like, okay, let's talk aboutit.
And then I blow up.
That's on me.
Yeah, because
Casey (35:37):
now that's going to be, yeah I gained consent.
I asked for the space to safelytalk about something and that
was met with that progression.
Then it's going to be like, allright, well then why do I even
bring this up?
Kari (35:49):
But then why did I go through all this?
Correct.
And I love that we don't evenneed counseling.
We just do this stuff.
You just talk about everything.
No but again, you understandthat like.
Really, at the end of all ofthis, in every aspect that we're
talking about today, iscommunication.
That's, if you are notcommunicating to your partner
(36:12):
the things that's upsetting youor listening about the things
that they want to discuss beforeyou might go out, or having
these relationship check ins, orthe frickin first quote that we
led with, that arguments Happenaround breaking contracts that
were never written that wasnever written because you didn't
communicate it
Casey (36:29):
Yeah, you never talked about it.
You never talked about it.
And there's gonna be a lot likewe already said There's a lot.
No.
Yeah that you have to take themkind of as they come Yeah, cuz
you didn't know that you neededto talk about it You didn't know
that was going to upset you.
That is our current reality isthat we live in a Western
culture.
We live in a place that has kindof boxed in what sex is and what
(36:49):
sexuality is.
But we're in this transitionaryperiod now of where sexual
fluidity is coming into place.
And a lot of sexuality isbeginning to open up and
learning how to navigate thatwith a partner.
Can we just go back to
Kari (37:02):
Roman times?
Roman times of communication,sexual fluidity, everyone, fuck
everyone in the streets, atparties, be who you are.
Casey (37:12):
That's not how that
Kari (37:13):
went.
Just communicate about it.
They didn't communicate andthat's why they fell.
That's not it.
That is the reason that theRoman Empire is no more.
Because they didn't communicateit, but they were right about
their sexual
Casey (37:24):
liberations.
They your, their sexualliberations were not that.
Kari (37:32):
I've seen Rome, the
Casey (37:33):
show, I watched a TV show.
Therefore, that's how ithappened.
Kari (37:36):
Like 10, 20 years ago.
Casey (37:39):
I'll just show, you know, it was only the aristocracy that
was really allowed to be alittle bit more fluid.
And even then, but we can do awhole episode.
I'd love to do an episode on sexhistory.
Kari (37:50):
Oh, I would love that.
That's in one of our chapters onour notes on the ones that we
want to do is the spectralhistory.
The
Casey (37:57):
problem with those episodes, they take.
Like we have a ton of researchunder the belt about how things
have evolved over many years.
I got a ton of books that I'vebeen through on, on, on the
history of sex and how it'sevolved over many years.
I want to get an expert in here.
I want to get, I want to do aninterview with someone.
Yes.
Kari (38:15):
A guy that you're obsessed with.
Oh, he's more religious.
Casey (38:19):
Yeah, he's a religious scholar.
He's a scholar of the Bible, notjust religious scholar of the
Bible is what he is.
But I would like to get somebodyin here that has like a ton of
credentials behind sexualhistories of various cultures.
So if that's you, reach out tous.
Kari (38:38):
Or you know someone, tag us, like let us know.
Like I will ask anyone to be onthis fucking show, I don't give
a I don't care who you are.
Casey (38:46):
We want to talk about cultures and history and how
they viewed sex and sexuality.
And there's a lot of things inthere, especially leaning into
like when it became not okay tobe sexual.
Kari (38:57):
Well, we have like five more minutes.
Let's do our fun little so ifyou heard the last episode or
last week's episode, we wentover this like ick list, which I
don't know where the term ick.
I know where it came from, butI'm just curious as why is this
year, the year of ick every likeInstagram, Facebook, all I see
(39:19):
are people like, Ooh, that's it.
So I guess that's like a newfucking term.
But, we got this, huh?
Casey (39:25):
Said no cap.
No cap?
Kari (39:28):
What?
What am I missing?
Anyways.
I'm not gonna tell you.
Yeah, please don't.
We got this book, and it wascalled The Ick List, and we got
it from like, five below inpassing in their like,
Valentine's section.
But it has been fun.
It has been fun, but there's alot of like, What if you are on
a date and someone did this orwould you like this or that?
(39:50):
Right.
And so last year, last episode,you heard me ask Casey
questions.
So now he's going to ask mequestions.
So
Casey (39:57):
we're today we're playing, would you rather, and
this is, would you rather go ona date with someone that this or
that?
Okay.
Ready?
Okay.
I got it.
Refuses to speak to anystranger.
Or strikes up conversation withanyone within three feet of
them.
So which one would I rather?
Yeah.
Who would you rather be on adate with?
The person that does not speakto anyone around them or the
(40:19):
person that's only speaks likeeverybody else.
I still
Kari (40:22):
think I'd rather the person that like speaks to other
people.
Yeah.
That's fun.
Casey (40:26):
It creates a fun atmosphere.
Kari (40:27):
Yeah.
It's fun.
Like.
I don't know.
I guess I would imagine 20 yearslater, you're to your partner
like, well, you just shut thefuck up and stop talking to
everybody.
But I think if I'm like on adate, I would much rather be
with someone that's like fun andoutgoing and chatty and
talkative.
Hopefully
Casey (40:45):
they would know in the moment be like, Hey, my interest
level for sure should be here.
Yeah.
But there's nothing wrong withspeaking to people around you.
It just creates for more of afun atmosphere.
Okay.
So, complains about dog fur ordoesn't clean up after their
pet.
I feel like that one's a dumb
Kari (41:02):
one.
That's a dumb one.
If you're gonna have a dog, youhave to clean up for it and you
can't complain about it.
Like, then don't own pets.
That's we're going to, we're
Casey (41:10):
going to skip that one was dumb.
So either someone that speaksvery loudly, stop it.
Or speaks in a near whisper
Kari (41:20):
that was geared towards me.
No if I have to ask you torepeat yourself, because I can't
hear what you're saying, I'mgoing to stop.
I'm going to I'm just not goingto like speak the fuck up.
I would rather me be like, Hey,turn it down.
Then be like, what?
What are you saying?
What?
What?
And because most times if I'mtaking someone out to a place,
it's going to be a place thatyou better fucking speak up.
(41:42):
Oh yeah?
You know?
Casey (41:44):
Go ahead.
Okay, that's fair.
So, would you rather go on adate with someone that spills
food on themselves or trips overtree roots?
Kari (41:54):
Three roots.
Okay, got it.
So you're walking
Casey (41:56):
down the street and they've got
Kari (41:58):
both of those are clumsy.
Yeah.
So what?
I rather clumsy or clumsy.
Got it.
Yeah.
Which,
Casey (42:03):
which sort of clumsy?
I
Kari (42:05):
don't know.
Like at least it doesn't makeyou look messy.
Casey (42:08):
That's true.
Yeah.
I'd probably go with tree rootsas
Kari (42:10):
well, but like clumsy over clumsy.
You're not giving me a lot togo.
Casey (42:16):
All right.
Let's see that leaves their foodwrappers everywhere.
Okay.
Okay.
Or refuses to eat in front ofyou.
I think
Kari (42:23):
I'd rather you just not eat in front of me.
I
Casey (42:26):
would go with food wrappers.
I would totally disagree.
No, if you're going to
Kari (42:29):
be a slob, then like, then eat in your own time.
Yeah.
Casey (42:34):
I get that.
But still at the same time withfood wrappers, it's, we can have
a discussion around it.
And listen, you tend to leaveyour food wrappers everywhere.
Please start picking up afteryourself.
Kari (42:47):
It around you.
Would that be like
Casey (42:49):
weird to you?
I think they were like an alienor a robot.
Do you not eat?
Kari (42:55):
Okay.
When do you eat?
Where do you eat?
Yeah.
Casey (42:58):
With what?
And then finally the somebodythat snaps at the waiter or
illegally parks in theaccessible parking spot.
I know Casey's.
You actually don't.
Kari (43:10):
So you would rather someone snap at the waiter?
No, I don't know, because youget so fussy about people
parking in
Casey (43:18):
handicapped parking spots.
Oh, I'm
Kari (43:19):
fussy about it.
I have never heard someonecomplain about one thing the
most.
Casey (43:25):
About handicapped
Kari (43:26):
parking?
Like, one topic, at least acouple times a week I hear you
bitch about someone doing it.
Casey (43:33):
That's because I see it a couple times a
Kari (43:34):
week.
But I get to hear about it everytime.
Casey (43:38):
Yeah, you do.
You had to hear me vent a lot.
I, most, one of the things Ivent most about is driving.
Driving and then gyms areprobably my two big ones.
You complain about so many
Kari (43:47):
people in a gym.
There's a lot to complain aboutwhen someone's in a gym.
I totally get it.
I'm just shocked that you'reshocked.
Casey (43:56):
My complaint around that stuff is about people that
everyone else complains about.
Hey, this person sits on theirphone instead of using the
machine and they sit there forlike 10 minutes and you're
waiting.
You're like, okay, you couldjust not be on it.
Okay, but I've
Kari (44:11):
never heard you say that complaint.
Your complaints are like, theyset up a tripod and they're
taking videos of themselves.
I'm like, duh, you're in a gym.
What the fuck else do you thinkis going to happen?
Workout?
People don't workout in a gym.
They make videos of themselves.
They show up, make videos andleave.
And they leave.
Like,
Casey (44:30):
duh.
Don't do that shit during peakhours.
This is like the middle ofpeople's lunch during the week.
Go there.
Yeah.
That's funny.
Like I go to a 24 hour a daygym.
One content creator could go tothat gym on a Saturday night or
a Sunday morning or somethingand make stuff 30 days worth of
content.
Bring a couple different outfitsand do different movements on
(44:51):
different fucking pieces ofequipment instead of having to
set up your camera every singletime you're in there.
Yeah.
And blocking people's use.
I actually one girl and.
That was using the, like, theleg the one that exercises your
inner thigh muscles.
But her tripod, instead of setup, like, to the side, was set
up directly in front.
Oh, come on,
Kari (45:10):
babe.
I don't, again, I just don'tknow why you're surprised by
this stuff.
It just, it floors me thatyou're shocked by this.
Casey (45:16):
It's not surprising.
It's not that It's
Kari (45:18):
not.
That's why I don't understandwhy you complain about it.
I'm like, what?
That's It's just common practice
Casey (45:24):
now.
What do you mean?
It's again, it's not that it'ssurprising.
It's something that I now haveto feel, I feel like I have to
be like aware of because I don'twant to like get in.
I don't want to like pass themin front of their stuff.
I don't, I just want to do myown thing.
If they're
Kari (45:42):
an influencer, they already know how to cut your
image out so you don't have toworry about it.
They know how to
Casey (45:45):
edit it.
I love it.
for siding with everyone else.
Kari (45:49):
When it comes to gym stuff.
Yes, babe.
What gym do you go to?
I do yoga.
I don't go to a gym.
Oh, that's right.
But even more so like I'm not init and I know how it is.
You're in it.
That's why I'm so floored thatyou're like focused on it.
You're in it more than I am.
And I know how it works.
Like, come on, baby.
(46:10):
Answer the question, though.
You didn't
Casey (46:11):
answer the question.
Oh, no, I'd much rather thempark in front of, or park in a
handicapped spot.
I feel like the handicapped spotthat are out there.
Kari (46:19):
Well, I don't remember what the other one was now.
The hand, oh, the snapping.
I think that if I were to snapat someone in a restaurant, it's
probably because I can snaplouder than would be appropriate
for me to say something.
I have, we talked about, I thinkwe talked about this like
Casey (46:35):
last week.
We did and talked about howinappropriate it is to snap
Kari (46:37):
at a waiter.
I have snapped, but I wouldrather snap at, cause I can,
again, I can like snap loud,then like.
Hey, yo, or like, ma'am, superloud.
But either way, it just kind ofdepends on where you're at.
If you're in a quiet restaurantand you're snapping at someone.
I'm in a loud space and I'mdoing it to get your attention.
(46:57):
I wouldn't see it that way, butat the same time, like I've
never been a waiter.
So I don't know.
I don't know how I would feelabout that.
But you have.
So if someone snapped at you,would you be like, snap at me?
Absolutely.
Casey (47:10):
It's so rude to snap at a, snap at surface.
I'm trying to get your attentionover here.
Yeah.
No, you don't do that.
There's a million fucking otherways to do it.
Don't do that.
It's fair.
You impatient
Kari (47:23):
fucks.
I am an inpatient person.
I wouldn't call myself aninpatient fuck, but I am a
patient.
Like
Casey (47:30):
they're going to walk by your tape.
Not always though.
And you know what?
It's easy to be like, you can doit non verbally, super simple to
do because they're looking.
Okay.
Now, if you have somebody that'sso ignorant.
As a surface industry thatthey're not even looking at your
table, then I don't know what totell you then, but I still don't
think snapping at them isappropriate.
(47:52):
Fair.
I think we've covered everythingtoday.
Yeah, we have.
Anyway, for another episode ofcome with Casey we are your
hosts.
I'm Dr.
Casey Sanders and I'm CarrieSanders.
Thanks.
Well, here we are another episode.
And this has been such a greatmonth for us, beginning of the
year.
January of
Casey (00:07):
2024.
It's been great.
We've seen a lot of people thatare not happy already with 2024.
I know, and I
Kari (00:13):
feel so bad for them because I'm over here like,
Dude, this is fucking great.
Casey (00:17):
We're sorry you're dealing with that, but however,
Yeah.
We are enjoying 2024 so far.
We've booked some new stuff.
We've learned some new things.
We've planned some new things.
I mean, we have a lot going
Kari (00:29):
for us.
I think this is going to be agood year.
Not just because you will beclosely finishing within your
SHA, but because I'm like newlystarting it's just, you know, I
changed my schedule behind thechair.
You have a new scheduleyourself.
Like we're going to get intothis whole new flow and I'm
honestly super excited for it.
Casey (00:49):
It's been good.
What are some big changes thatwe're going through right now?
Oh, I booked a shoot for thenext couple of weeks.
I'm excited.
You'll hear more details aboutthese for these photographers
and their studio as we getcloser.
But this was just recentlybooked.
So I'll be going in and doingacting as a rigger to tie up
some some boudoir
Kari (01:09):
models.
Dude, it's actually a reallycool gig that you got signed up
for because it's yes, you get tobe the rigger, but we've never
experienced having 10photographers around us at the
same time.
That's gonna be kind of
Casey (01:23):
cool.
Well, there's definitely adifference between having where
we go to a photo shoot.
We have some fun.
We're playing around.
This is more of like.
Getting out there and getting abunch of photographers at once.
I've done
Kari (01:34):
something like this in the past where all these
photographers met up and we hadmodels and I ended up being one
of the models, but we, I'veexperienced something like this
before.
And it was a fucking blast, butfor us to get to experience this
through you tying.
That aspect of you tying is new.
How do you feel about like 10people around you just shooting?
(01:57):
Like all you're going to hear
Casey (01:58):
is see this is exciting For me mostly because yeah, like
what you're saying, I haven'tdone a meetup before with a
whole bunch of photographers.
So it's going to give a lot ofexperience to that.
And then working with multiplemodels at the same time.
Including you are going to beone of them.
So we're going to have differentpeople coming in.
So working with different bodytypes, working with different
(02:18):
ties.
The planning is what I'm mostexcited about.
Really?
Yeah.
We were, I mean, you know, wewere just at lunch and we were
talking about what ties do youwant to do?
How intricate do we want to get?
Like, what's going to be themost time efficient?
What's going to be the most likebest way to express this
person's body type with theseties.
Exactly.
Kari (02:35):
And that's one of the things that I liked the most
about when they had reached outto us.
It was almost one of the firstthings that they said is that
we're looking for differentbody.
They wanted body diversity forsure.
Yeah.
Which is fucking finally, Idon't know.
I just, I love that they saidthat like they didn't have to
lead with that.
It's a Bajor shoot with ropeswith you.
And they're like, Hey, but don'tjust have this be like the
(02:57):
average, let's get some uniqueuniqueness in there.
And that's kind of what we justdiscussed at lunch is like, this
is their body type.
How can we accentuate.
That type and then
Casey (03:08):
vice versa.
Well, so for example, we weretalking about you, you got a big
old booty.
I got a big old ass.
So we were like, all right.
So what sort of harnesses can wemake along like your lower half
to really draw attention?
It's going on.
How can we take that sweet assthat you have?
Stop it.
I swear to God.
And put a tie on there to makeit look even better than it
already
Kari (03:27):
does.
Yeah.
No, I love that.
We're super excited for thisshoot.
And like, this isn't our first,it's not going to be our last.
We do a lot of stuff like thisand more that we're wanting to
start sharing, you know, withy'all through, through the show
and everything
Casey (03:40):
else that we're doing.
So stay tuned for that.
I mean, you know how big we areand especially the fact that
there are being more a bodydiverse, you know how much we
are in a body diversity, whichis, we've got that coming up
with nightshade as always.
As
Kari (03:53):
always with nightshade.
And so again, nightshadeburlesque, you've heard us talk
about it a hundred times over.
It is the first Friday of everysingle month, and this month is
the first time that they'rehaving a live band at.
Cicada.
Casey (04:08):
Yes.
We, they've done live bandsbefore, whatever they performed
at tulips.
Yes.
This time they're doing it at acicada.
I'm excited to see how it goes.
So
Kari (04:17):
I even got to see a little bit of a tease earlier with one
of the girls that we follow.
You probably just happened tomiss it, but it showed like the
entire band and her like livingroom while they're doing
practice.
like, Oh my God, I love this.
It's so cool.
Casey (04:30):
I know what you're talking
Kari (04:30):
about.
Yeah.
It's this like, and actually I'mnot gonna say what it is.
I'm not going to, but I thinkit's really cool.
To have like a live
Casey (04:37):
man that was like the band for those performing.
I thought that was just like arandom thing.
I was like, Oh, y'all just haverandom jazz bands performing in
your living room.
Okay.
Kari (04:47):
But yeah, so we're super excited about that.
And you know, it still holds, wehave two seats available for
nightshade burlesque.
This is your absolute last weekto enter in two seats.
Yes.
Complimentary.
Like we've already paid for it.
You come be our guest, hang outand see the performance.
So again, you have to email comewith Casey at gmail.
(05:09):
com that's C U M W I T C H K C.
At gmail.
com, but that is the only way toenter and just you know She has
an email that says hey me and mypartner or me and my friend or
whatever.
Yeah want to be there we got theseats.
We got the table.
We got you covered.
It's going to be a great fuckingshow as always Yeah, I love when
(05:32):
you just stare at me.
So let's go into the show todaybecause what really brought into
Our topic was something that yougot to hear on your over the
weekend.
Yeah, that's right.
Casey (05:44):
So over this last weekend as I do a few times a year, I
hooked up with the, with these,with Shaw, the Sexual Health
Alliance, which Carrie and I areboth students of.
I am on their counselor track.
Carrie is on their coachingtrack so we can help bring you
guys more authentic.
Discussions and advice for ourclients versus just doing it
from personal experience, whichis most of what you see out
(06:05):
there.
That is a ramp for a second,please.
I do not know that I S I promiseyou, I'm going to God, this is
going to be bad.
I'm going to sound, I'm going tooffend somebody right here.
I'm getting very tired of themarketing.
Coming from people that's likethe reason that I am a coach is
because I didn't orgasm until Iwas 25, 30 years old.
(06:27):
So therefore, because I learnedhow to, now I can show everyone
else how to.
Kari (06:32):
In my opinion though, and I'm like, I've been orgasming
since 14, like I actuallyprobably know more about orgasm
than you do.
If you didn't, until you were25, like, I just, I get your
point.
Like what makes you this likescholar of opinion when it just
happened to you?
Well, a lot of
Casey (06:50):
times those people that are, I've experienced something
like this, they'll go andthey'll start their research.
Right.
And they'll go through untilthey find something that works
for them.
So like it's dip for me to doit.
I've never done it.
So now I'm going to try this.
And I'm going to try this.
I'm going to try this.
I'm going to try that.
So now they're holding onto allthat stuff.
They found the thing that worksfor them.
And so now it goes, well, nowfrom my personal experience,
same thing with other marriedcouples that you're like, Hey,
(07:12):
we coach.
Couples for essentially marriagecoaching.
Yeah, but all of that is basedupon personal experience.
We wanted to take it a stepfurther.
Yeah, and add academia into it.
Exactly.
Kari (07:23):
Like we do have a lot of experience.
Of course, we've been togetherforever and we've been through a
lot, but that's not enough forme to sit there and say that,
like, I'm going to confidence.
Aspect of marriage.
I know our aspect of marriage,but I don't know everyone's.
And so it was super importantfor us to like educate ourselves
further to one, be morebeneficial to our clients.
(07:48):
But also I think set us asidefrom some of the
Casey (07:50):
standards.
Well, I had a friend of minethat had made a video not too
long ago and I have high respectfor him.
He's actually a chiropractor.
I think he's in Florida and hewas talking, he was like, out of
all the things that are outthere and all the things that
work, there's things that workfor you, but they might not work
right now.
You might not be in the placefor this thing to work for you.
(08:10):
And it might be a very popularthing at the time he was talking
about.
I think ice baths and like coldplunges and being like, that's a
great thing and it has a hugehealth benefits, but it may not
be what works best for you rightnow.
So that was part of what we'resaying is be, we don't want to
just.
Give you advice off personally,I think in part that's
irresponsible.
We wanted to add another layerto it to make sure that we're up
(08:33):
to date on everything thatincludes like journal
subscriptions to highlyaccredited sex research journals
and making sure that we arecontinuing education students
and making sure that we'relearning from the top
researchers in the field.
So we can figure out the bestways, not only the best
information to deliver, but thebest ways in which to deliver
it.
So that's.
(08:54):
My little rant for that period,but this whole weekend, this
past weekend, I was on withsexual health Alliance and we
were talking a lot about we weretalking about a lot about sexual
fluidity.
So the whole purpose of theweekend was about overcoming
like, I would think it was likegoing from sexual trauma to
sexual triumph.
And we talked about a lot aboutabuse.
(09:14):
We talked about child abuse.
We talked about trauma.
We talked about sexual fluidity.
We talked about what it wouldlike, what, Oh God, what was
the, one of the big ones that wehad talked about?
We talked about Sexualorientation versus erotic
orientation, which we're goingto do an entire episode on this
because it deserves an episode.
It was so great.
And I'm not even going to gointo a lot about what it is.
(09:35):
The only thing I'll say about itis that it's the difference
between saying the orientationthat you have of who you're
attracted to in terms of allthat versus acted to in terms of
things that arouse you, such aspornography or Or readings or
things and what that centersaround.
So that was an interesting one.
But the quote that you'retalking about, right?
(09:56):
So
Kari (09:56):
like you came to me.
This is probably Friday orSaturday.
Oh, this is Sunday evening.
Oh, was it really?
Okay.
So you came to me with thisquote.
And I'm like, that's an amazingfucking quote.
Like that could be an entireepisode.
So here we are making it anentire episode.
What we're talking to you.
(10:17):
Memorize the quote.
Casey (10:18):
I believe I need to like, I think I have it.
I can read off my notes.
I can paraphrase it.
We have been talking.
You and I have been havingdiscussion about boundary
setting and about discussionsand relationships.
And we were listening to Dr.
Joe court.
Who is, who was doing this wholeweek in disgust and he actually
quoted Dr.
Marty Klein, there's anotherperson that we're highly
respectful of who had saidsomething along the lines of
(10:41):
like, whenever it comes tocouples, most arguments around
boundaries, most arguments areabout contracts that no one ever
made.
If you want to, if you want tosay anything on to like what the
actual code is,
Kari (10:56):
but I mean what I have written down is yes, most
arguments amongst couples centeraround breaking contracts that
were never
Casey (11:03):
written.
Yes.
So for the most part, what wemean by that is.
Is that a lot of people go intorelationships, long term
relationships, and you havethese assumptions about what
your boundaries are, the sexualvalues of another person, or
what the boundaries of the otherperson might be.
You never have these discussionsaround, is it okay to Like what
(11:25):
is flirting mean to you andwhat's okay and what's not
Kari (11:28):
okay?
I mean, I can look back at ourrelationship and we never sat
down and I wouldn't have eventhought to have that
conversation.
Honestly
Casey (11:35):
No You know into it making those assumptions.
Yeah, we're all everybody hasbeen so and to be like This is
the way that love works And thisis the way that relationships
work that from the perspectiveof someone that has been just
driven through that narrativefrom a young age You don't know
anything outside of that I thinkto ask the questions of, does
(11:56):
this person have a differentperspective on various acts than
I do or what it means to dothese things.
So one, like a personal examplethat we had from early in our
relationship, which we've talkedabout on the show before is like
you making out with friends,same sex, but making out with
friends.
Kari (12:12):
Yeah.
That was not something that wehad ever discussed, but in all
honesty, I never thought that Ineeded to.
But that was just my ignoranceto our relationship, to our own
boundaries.
Because again, I broke acontract that I never knew we
had written.
Casey (12:25):
You had never made that contract.
I never said I couldn't make outwith my friends.
But it wasn't anything you hadnever asked.
Like, Hey, are you okay withthis?
Is this something that, thatbothers you?
And we have to, we have alwayshave to reiterate that it's not
boundaries and stuff like thisaren't necessarily about the
other person, you, if like.
(12:47):
this is what I say.
How does that make you feel?
I enjoy going out and making outwith my friends.
How do you feel about that?
Is that something that
Kari (12:55):
bothers you?
And like I said, I just, I neverwould have even thought to ask
that.
Yeah.
And I think that's why this issuch a, an important topic to
discuss because this doesn'thappen at the beginning of your
relationship.
This can happen at any point ofyour relationship.
It should
Casey (13:10):
happen all throughout your relationship.
Yeah.
At least the discussion on it.
Yeah.
But it absolutely, you can foryears and years and you have
this continuing argument and youdon't realize that you never
even had the discussion about isthis, how does each of you feel
about this particular act, thisparticular subject and the same
way you have so many people thatgo into therapy where one person
(13:31):
approaches the therapist andsays, my partner has a problem.
I think that they're a sexaddict, which if you've listened
before, you know, that we firmlybelieve that sex addiction does
not exist.
But they'll go into them andsay, well, my partner watches
porn a lot.
Kari (13:45):
Well, I mean, honestly, this was an issue that we had.
Yeah.
This was an issue we had earlyon in our relationship.
It was, we had never discussedporn.
And so when I was on yourcomputer and I found a bunch of
fucking porn, I was like, Whatthe fuck dude?
Exactly.
And again, obviously, no, Ididn't handle that well, but
(14:06):
that was me feeling like youbroke a contract.
That we never even discussed.
We had never had thatdiscussion.
And so sometimes it's like, youdon't know what you don't know.
So it is hard to like pre planthese type of discussions, but
what we hope that you gain fromthis conversation is to realize
(14:26):
that you do personally haveboundaries for your relationship
that you have might not discloseto your partner.
I don't give a shit how longyou've been together.
There are certain aspects that.
You are not okay with that.
Maybe you and your partner havejust not come across.
Yeah,
Casey (14:42):
you have those built in decisions that you've made that
you've set boundaries foryourself for, but you don't,
you've never had the discussionwith the partner and you haven't
come out and said, listen here'swhat I enjoy and we need to have
a discussion around that or.
Here's what I'm bothered by.
And we need to have a discussionaround that.
Kari (15:00):
And I guess I brought up like, you don't know what you
don't know because sometimessituations arise and you don't
know how you're going to feelabout it until you're in it.
That's when we talk aboutrelationship check ins.
Having that time to sit down andsay, which I do feel like, let's
go ahead and bring in thatpoint.
And it was another quote thatyou had received from this
weekend.
(15:21):
Do you, if you already know whatI'm talking about, then go ahead
and quote.
I'll do what we wrote downearlier.
So, it was saying that givingthe safe space to hear something
that they may not.
Want to hear so if you'rebringing oh, okay.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, right.
You're bringing something to meKnowing that I might actually be
(15:42):
upset with this but as areceiving in from the person
that's hearing that message
Casey (15:48):
So the rest of that quote is centered around how can I
expect my partner to be honestwith me?
well the answer to that is yourpartner is going to be as Honest
with you as they see and yourreactions to hearing something.
You don't want to hear Clarify.
If I were to come to you,Carrie, and I told you something
that maybe I'd done or I wasinterested in, or I thought
(16:11):
about and your reaction to thatis very negative and it creates
argument and it's handled in avery like emotionally negative
way, me.
And this is most people, thismay be conscious, this may be
unconscious, but now you'regoing to second guess telling
your partner things because younow know what don't want to
(16:32):
create the conflict of thatnegative reaction.
And you might have fear centeredaround that negative reaction.
You might have frustration oranger centered around that
negative reaction, but you nolonger are going to be fully
honest with them because nowyou're going, well, if I tell
them they're just going to get.
Pissed off about it, even ifit's something that you don't
know that where they, that theywill or not, you're going to go
and associate that last time ofsaying, I did this thing and I
(16:54):
told you about it and you'reactually flipped out on me now
later.
And even if it was like lateron, it was like, no, it's
completely cool, but the we hangon to those in the moment
reactions.
So in is that your your partneryour is sorry, you are only
going to be as honest as yourpartner's reaction to something
(17:16):
they don't want to hear.
Kari (17:17):
And so the thing with that is like, you can't, you don't
get to know how you'repersonally going to feel about
something that your partnertells you.
You don't know how you're goingto feel.
But I think that whenever wetalked a lot about relationship
check ins.
I think it's super important tosay during this check in or
(17:38):
during this next moment, say Iwould like to be able to be
vulnerable with you and tell yousomething and that you may not
love and you may not want tohear but I'm asking your
permission to tell you.
And I think that allows thepartner.
To have the opportunity tocontrol how they feel.
(18:02):
I think there's a differencebetween blindsiding.
Casey (18:05):
Nobody wants to just be thrown something out of
Kari (18:07):
nowhere.
So if you bring something toyour partner that they weren't
expecting, and then they freakout and then you're mad that
they freak out, did you givethem the safe space to tell them
something that they weren'tready to hear?
Right.
Or are you just blurting shitout?
Right.
So it goes both ways.
Not only hearing theinformation, preface it with,
(18:28):
Hey.
I would like to have a check inwith you.
I would like to be able to talkwith you about something and
giving them the opportunity tonot be incited by the
information, like don't do it inthe morning in passing and just
like, let me tell you this, andthen I'm just going to expect
you to respond.
Well, you can't do that either.
So it does go both ways.
(18:48):
That's why we've talked aboutlike setting aside time for
check ins because that is reallyimportant to allow both of you
to be in the headspace that youneed to
Casey (18:55):
be in.
And at the bare minimum ofthose.
Just letting your partner, youwant to talk about you want to
talk about a subject.
It doesn't have to be like, Hey,I need to tell you something.
This is super serious.
And this is relationship endingor anything like that.
But it could be like, Hey, I'dlike to set aside some time this
evening whenever we're both freeto just have a
Kari (19:13):
chat.
And let, and maybe that is aboutporn.
Maybe that is like, Hey I've notdisclosed this to you yet.
This is something that I want tobe able to feel comfortable to
tell you about.
It could be.
Maybe masturbation.
What if I came to you, Casey,and I was like, I'm going to do
a relationship check in and letyou know how many times I
(19:35):
masturbate in a week.
And to some, for you, you'd belike, that's fucking hot.
But to another person, they'd belike, why do you do that?
Yeah.
Why do you feel the need tomasturbate?
You
Casey (19:44):
have me, which is super selfish, by the way, it
Kari (19:48):
is, but also understand the very beginning of our
relationship.
I got insecure when you wouldmasturbate.
Now we were so young.
And I didn't know half thefucking shit I know now when it
comes
Casey (19:58):
to relationships.
Which is one of the reasons wereiterate to people that they
need to be educated on actualsexuality versus receiving the
bare minimum that they doreceive throughout, throughout,
like, I don't know, middleschool and early high school
education that you need to havesome.
Further education on sex andsexuality and what that means
for relationships.
(20:18):
What is healthy and what'sunhealthy because we have way
too many people that are poorlyeducated than what sex is and
what arouses people and howsexuality plays a role in
people's lives.
Kari (20:31):
But again, it's just.
It's very important.
And to try to sit down and havethese conversations.
I mean, what were some of theother examples we wrote down the
flirting with friends, makingout with friends, the porn, the
masturbation is a big onebecause it is because it's
subjective.
Yeah.
Flirting your opinion offlirting is not my opinion of
flirting,
Casey (20:50):
right?
Yeah.
If we're out and about andyou're flirting with somebody
like nowadays.
If we have had the discussionaround it, then that's a
completely different story.
But if it's
Kari (20:59):
a, we'll have those discussions the night of we will
do that ever.
And no, and it's a greatdiscussion.
It's kind of playful and fun.
Casey (21:08):
I'd be like, where's your head out head at tonight?
Like I know I'm feeling in aoutgoing, expressive mood.
How would you feel if I was likeflirting with someone?
Kari (21:17):
And then we've also had nights where it was like, yeah,
just us tonight.
Like, let it just be us.
And.
I, again, I love thoseconversations beforehand.
There is a drive to anywhere yougo.
You don't just levitate to theplace you're going, right?
Yeah.
Like get in the, set thoseboundaries when you get in the
car and figure out the type ofnight that you want to
Casey (21:38):
have.
Yeah.
What are our goals for tonight?
What are our sexual goals fortonight?
What are our intimacy
Kari (21:42):
goals tonight?
Are goals?
What are our active goals?
What are our, I'm not reallyfeeling very social tonight.
I, and I would be morecomfortable if you were with me
or.
I'm not feeling very socialtonight, but I want you to go
and explore and have a
Casey (21:53):
great time, which is honestly great because we've had
nights where we've gone outwhere I've been like super
introvert, not as in a socialmood, but I still want to be out
and about.
And that that drives into youbeing like, well, I'm like, but
that allows you to be out andhaving fun and you don't have to
(22:13):
turn to look at me and be like,Hey, is everything okay?
Are you all right?
What's going on with you?
Or I can be like, no, I'm fine.
I'm just sitting here, peoplewatching because I love people
watching,
Kari (22:24):
but I love that though, because right.
Most arguments amongst couplescenter around breaking
contracts.
They never written.
They had never written that canstill go to the day to day that
go to the event that you'regoing to, because if we don't
predetermine how we want ournight to go or even discuss it,
and I were to do something thatupset you, I didn't know that
was going to upset you.
(22:45):
Yeah.
And so that statement does nothave to go to relationship as a
whole, that statement can go to.
When you go out, when, whatevermindset you need to be in for
that day, like we don't want youto think of this such as like,
Oh no, that statements again isjust like a relationship as a,
you know, a whole, no, this canbe a daily conversation.
Casey (23:04):
Yeah, it can be whenever it's necessary and how you deem
is necessary is really up toyou.
A lot of those things going out,this especially speaks towards
people that are maybe familiarwith their attachment style.
This is when we've talked abouta lot in private has been, if
you know, your attachment styleand you're out and about with a
partner and your attachmentstyle becomes.
(23:26):
Activated through whateverbehaviors they're expressing as
the person seeing it.
So me as the person seeing itand experiencing it and feeling
myself getting worked up andfrustrated, if I know where my
head space is at in that moment,then I can do things.
I can use the activationstrategies to make sure that it
doesn't escalate into some sortof fight.
Kari (23:47):
Can I ask you what would be just a very small example?
Because I already feel likeyou're going into a topic.
That's an amazing episode.
Yeah, for sure.
But what if you do find yourselfin one of those situations?
What would be a deactivatinglike
Casey (24:00):
strategy?
That one's interesting becauseyou don't want to, if you start
finding yourself getting intoone of those places, you don't
want to end the night becausenow you're taking away from your
partners or partners experiencewhenever you're the one having
the emotions.
Yeah.
What, and it may be results intosome of their behavior and you
need to be able to communicatethat.
You are seeing behaviors out ofthem that are activating to you.
(24:23):
And so my, one of my favoritethings to do.
Is to actually if we're all stepoutside, I will, and this
happens to me too, even outsideof being
Kari (24:33):
with me, I've seen you do, or all of a sudden you're like,
ah, this is too muchstimulation.
I need to step out for a minute
Casey (24:38):
that works with me, even if I'm being activated, like my,
some of my anxiety is gettingactivated or something.
But what I like to do is juststep outside for a few minutes
and take a few deep breaths andjust kind of be by myself for a
second and I think that's greatdown, calm down overthinking
because as a lot of times we area little bit conditioned to do
(25:00):
is that we go towards worst casescenario.
I see my partner being a littlebit too friendly with, in my
opinion, too friendly withsomeone.
And then it's like.
No, must mean that my partnerwants to fuck him.
Must mean that they're like, nowwhat are they going to do?
Go and exchange Instagramhandles and start messaging each
other.
And now they're going to createsome relationship behind your
back.
Your mind tends to go towardsworst case scenario and steps
(25:23):
away from logical.
This is like, this could easilybe just a friendly conversation.
So if you remove yourself out ofit and you know, work on taking
about 10 minutes of just fewdeep breaths and kind of
thinking through the situationof being like, Okay.
We're not going to discuss itright now.
We've shit.
You should discuss it becauseyou need to be able to tell your
(25:44):
partner what's bothering you.
But if you just take it to belike, look, stop thinking this
is the worst case.
This could be employee a littlebit of stoicism of being like, I
know that I'm not like the onlything I control right now is my
own self.
So let's focus on stop trying toreprimand my partner for their
behavior and let me focus oncontrolling my own emotions and
(26:08):
bringing myself out of thatplace.
And I think that's
Kari (26:10):
super important to be able to realize that, like, what can
I do to calm the situationversus like, what can I do
emotionally driven to elevatethe situation?
And then
Casey (26:23):
Then you should be able to come back from that and go to
your partner at the, at a time.
Now, if you're out and about andyou're all drinking everything,
it's not a good time.
Never.
I don't care what you're doing,what it is, it's not a good
time.
Kari (26:34):
Never, ever.
It's not a good time to have thediscussion.
No, you don't have arelationship check in when y'all
have been drinking, you know,for the whole dinner or
whatever.
Like, that's not when you
Casey (26:43):
do that.
Yeah.
Wait till the next day.
Control yourself.
Wait till the next day, becausewe can
Kari (26:47):
all admit that if we have been drinking, that does alter
our like ability to rationalizewhatever information we're
given.
Not all.
Casey (26:56):
Well, not only is it, does it inhibit my ability to.
Properly communicate with you.
It's going to inhibit yourability to fully comprehend and
receive whatever language I'mspeaking and appropriately
respond versus emotionallyresponding.
So it's important to kind of await a little bit, but you
should be able to go to yourpartner and be like, okay,
(27:18):
listen.
So what happened was, you know,this is what I noticed.
This is the behavior that Iwitnessed.
And this is what kind ofactivated me.
Maybe it's activating like yourinsecurity of being like, well,
are, you know, are you.
Who are you talking to?
Why are you talking to them?
What's going on over there?
Versus like, why are you notspending time with me?
I'm over here.
I feel abandoned and alone.
So you need to be able toexpress those at a time next
(27:40):
day, whenever.
It's in a better place toactually
Kari (27:44):
discuss it.
But which again, kind of bringsme back to setting the tone for
the night beforehand, if I knowthat we are going to go out,
this is what we're doing.
However, you are, or I are in astate of, I'm just gonna say
neediness.
Yeah, if I know that I'm goinginto a night with you where
you're feeling more needy, thatgives me the opportunity to give
(28:08):
you what you need whilefulfilling my own needs.
But if I didn't know how youfelt that night and you were
feeling a little extra touchy,you're feeling a little extra
needy or whatever, and I had noclue.
And out of a fault of my own, Iwould be doing my own thing
without the mental mindset of,Oh, Hey, this is what his needs
are tonight.
It's very important to havethese like daily check.
(28:31):
I mean, not daily, but likesituational check ins on top of
just relationship check.
Yeah.
Casey (28:37):
And it's the same whenever we're out with friends.
And I mean, we've witnessedbefore another couple is where
you have someone that we'rehanging out with and maybe their
partner goes off and theydisappear for like 30, 45
minutes.
And we're all just kind ofsitting there.
We're all having our talk.
But you can tell that thepartner is like is taken aback
by their partner's behavior.
It's something that should bediscussed beforehand.
(28:58):
Hey, like, here's what we'redoing tonight.
Like we're going to go out andwe're going to hang out with
these people.
I would like to try to keep itin our group.
We all go out and we have a goodtime setting those kind of
expectations for the night, orat least.
For the night and being able toopenly communicate about them is
key to making everyone has agood evening and it doesn't
result in, you know, a falloutof any sort.
(29:21):
And there
Kari (29:21):
was a little bit of like advice and this was something
that I had heard.
You know, I'm just like swipingreels online lately.
And I've been following a lot oflike.
Relationship, counseling,coaching, like pages, especially
now that I'm in as SHA now.
And there was one that I saw ina lady was basically saying
like, listen, ladies, if youfind yourself out with your
(29:44):
partner and there are thingsthat happen that do upset you.
And it was saying like, fromwomen and our perspective is if
we don't say it, and if we don'taddress it.
It's going to happen again, orI'm going to forget, or it's not
going to be taken as seriousbecause it wasn't in the moment.
I really liked what she said.
(30:05):
She's write it down.
We all have notes in our phone.
This doesn't have to be a blowup right then in the moment.
We've been drinking all night.
This upset me.
I have the wherewithal to say,let me write this down.
I know this needs to be adiscussion, but this is not the
time or the place because itgoes right back to the quote
that you had just said, giventhe safe space to hear something
(30:27):
they may not want to hear a bar.
It's not a safe space to hearsomething that you don't want to
hear.
Casey (30:34):
High energy with alcohol involved is not the space to
have that discussion.
Having said that, you have tofind a balance because if you
were to come to me the next dayand be like, listen, here's a
laundry list of all this, you
Kari (30:47):
in the bathroom and you didn't ask me to go to the
bathroom and I'm pissed.
No, we're not saying likenitpick your partner,
Casey (30:54):
some girl complimented you and you said,
Kari (30:56):
how
Casey (30:59):
dare you?
It's like those reels onlinethat you see.
It's like how I expect my man toact and like throw their drink
in their faces and all that.
And you're going, no, that's aheavily insecure couple to be
like, listen, if someone talksto you, you better like scream
at them and tell them to fuckoff.
Kari (31:16):
But I think it's fair to.
Hey, like we were out and Inoticed that your hand went to
the bottom of someone's back andyou guided her into the room and
that made me uncomfortable.
It's okay to set aside time likethat.
And you could even say, youdon't have to say I have a list
of shit you did.
You're going to say, Hey, in themorning when we are in a better
(31:37):
headspace, I would really liketo talk to you.
Or if you already know that'sgoing to set off your partner
and they're like, no, tell menow.
You can't wait until the morningand be like, Hey we woke up,
like, I just, I kind of wantedto disclose some things that
bothered me about last night andI didn't want to make it a big
deal then because that issetting boundaries for the next
time while not interrupting.
(31:59):
The experience that you had thenight before and I've done that.
I've done that.
And so there have been like,okay, this kind of bothered me,
but this isn't the time or theplace and have always thanked
myself the next morning for notsaying something in that night,
because whether you realize itor not, it will be a fight.
Casey (32:16):
Ooh, prime example.
Oh, I thought of an example.
One thing that we've seen in thepast is people like we'll go out
and we were in Texas.
So we'll go out to bars orsomething where they'll have a
dance floor and there will bepeople dancing and you're out
with friends and there'sstranger, whatever it is.
You might be a couple where oneof the partners is big on
dancing and one of them is like,well, not me and the other
(32:36):
partner in the moment is like,are you cool if I dance with
this person?
Yeah.
You're putting a lot on yourother partner for them to say
yes, because it's in thatmoment.
And if they are the personthat's like, no, I'm not cool
with that.
Then it's great.
Debbie downer, you know, we'rejust having a good time.
It's no big deal.
But then whenever they, if theydo say yes, like it's kind of an
expectation and you may begenuinely cool with that.
(32:57):
That's okay.
But then if it's something thatyou're not comfortable with and
you're watching your partner outdancing with someone else and
you're getting more activatedand you're getting frustrated
and then whenever they're done,you're just like, well, what the
fuck was that?
It's something that you can talkabout the following day.
Hey, listen, or even before yougo out,
Kari (33:14):
I was about to say, I said, that would have been a
great example of, Hey, we'regoing out tonight, we're going
to step in.
Casey, I fucking, you know, Isuck at two step in and you
really wanted to dance, thenthat would be an opportunity
before we even went out in thecar, right on the way there for
you to say, Hey, Carrie, wouldyou be okay if I danced with
(33:35):
another woman, like that wouldbe setting the tone
appropriately.
And then if.
You did something in the dancethat made me uncomfortable that
would, should be, in my opinion,something that was brought up in
a sober,
Casey (33:50):
I thought it was great up until you dipped her head
between your legs.
Yeah.
Kari (33:55):
Her up in your face, you know, like that was all right.
Like there is a time and a placeto set aside.
We're not set aside, but just tobring up the things that, yeah.
It's
Casey (34:06):
supposed to be in the safe.
Nonjudgmental, where we haveconsent, comfort, and proper
communication to
Kari (34:14):
could be, like, the night before we go dancing, we had
this conversation, you're like,Kara, I'd really like to dance
with someone.
I'm like, have at it.
And then something upsets me.
I'm now going to know that thenext morning, I'm going to ask
you.
Do I have your permission totell you something
Casey (34:29):
that I'd like to talk to you about?
I would like to talk to youabout?
Yeah.
I'd like to talk to you aboutlast night and kind of how that
went.
Are you up for that right now?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's really,
Kari (34:35):
I, I think it's completely fair to get permission to tell
something to the person thatmight upset them.
Yeah.
Because again, like justcompletely like blurting it out
or blindsiding them, like youdon't know what headspace
they're in that time.
And if you're the person that'sreceiving that, you come to me
and say, Hey, care, I reallywant to tell you something.
And I'm like, I've had the worstfucking day and this is not the
(34:59):
time to tell me, give me thatopportunity to tell you, you
don't get to make thatassumption.
See, I
Casey (35:04):
think that's actually a really good point and very clear
communication from coming fromyou right now is to be like,
Hey, if you want to tell me, ifyou need to tell me something,
but you know, I'm not in a goodhead space, you don't get to
make that call.
Yeah, let me know that you wantto talk to me.
And then all in turn tell youlike, Hey, I'm in the headspace
for that right now.
Or like, well, let's just talkabout it tomorrow.
Yeah.
(35:24):
That's like, I actually reallylike that.
I think that's fair.
Kari (35:27):
You know, but then at the same time, if you were to come
to me and say, Hey, I want totalk about it.
I'm like, okay, let's talk aboutit.
And then I blow up.
That's on me.
Yeah, because
Casey (35:37):
now that's going to be, yeah I gained consent.
I asked for the space to safelytalk about something and that
was met with that progression.
Then it's going to be like, allright, well then why do I even
bring this up?
Kari (35:49):
But then why did I go through all this?
Correct.
And I love that we don't evenneed counseling.
We just do this stuff.
You just talk about everything.
No but again, you understandthat like.
Really, at the end of all ofthis, in every aspect that we're
talking about today, iscommunication.
That's, if you are notcommunicating to your partner
(36:12):
the things that's upsetting youor listening about the things
that they want to discuss beforeyou might go out, or having
these relationship check ins, orthe frickin first quote that we
led with, that arguments Happenaround breaking contracts that
were never written that wasnever written because you didn't
communicate it
Casey (36:29):
Yeah, you never talked about it.
You never talked about it.
And there's gonna be a lot likewe already said There's a lot.
No.
Yeah that you have to take themkind of as they come Yeah, cuz
you didn't know that you neededto talk about it You didn't know
that was going to upset you.
That is our current reality isthat we live in a Western
culture.
We live in a place that has kindof boxed in what sex is and what
(36:49):
sexuality is.
But we're in this transitionaryperiod now of where sexual
fluidity is coming into place.
And a lot of sexuality isbeginning to open up and
learning how to navigate thatwith a partner.
Can we just go back to
Kari (37:02):
Roman times?
Roman times of communication,sexual fluidity, everyone, fuck
everyone in the streets, atparties, be who you are.
Casey (37:12):
That's not how that
Kari (37:13):
went.
Just communicate about it.
They didn't communicate andthat's why they fell.
That's not it.
That is the reason that theRoman Empire is no more.
Because they didn't communicateit, but they were right about
their sexual
Casey (37:24):
liberations.
They your, their sexualliberations were not that.
Kari (37:32):
I've seen Rome, the
Casey (37:33):
show, I watched a TV show.
Therefore, that's how ithappened.
Kari (37:36):
Like 10, 20 years ago.
Casey (37:39):
I'll just show, you know, it was only the aristocracy that
was really allowed to be alittle bit more fluid.
And even then, but we can do awhole episode.
I'd love to do an episode on sexhistory.
Kari (37:50):
Oh, I would love that.
That's in one of our chapters onour notes on the ones that we
want to do is the spectralhistory.
The
Casey (37:57):
problem with those episodes, they take.
Like we have a ton of researchunder the belt about how things
have evolved over many years.
I got a ton of books that I'vebeen through on, on, on the
history of sex and how it'sevolved over many years.
I want to get an expert in here.
I want to get, I want to do aninterview with someone.
Yes.
Kari (38:15):
A guy that you're obsessed with.
Oh, he's more religious.
Casey (38:19):
Yeah, he's a religious scholar.
He's a scholar of the Bible, notjust religious scholar of the
Bible is what he is.
But I would like to get somebodyin here that has like a ton of
credentials behind sexualhistories of various cultures.
So if that's you, reach out tous.
Kari (38:38):
Or you know someone, tag us, like let us know.
Like I will ask anyone to be onthis fucking show, I don't give
a I don't care who you are.
Casey (38:46):
We want to talk about cultures and history and how
they viewed sex and sexuality.
And there's a lot of things inthere, especially leaning into
like when it became not okay tobe sexual.
Kari (38:57):
Well, we have like five more minutes.
Let's do our fun little so ifyou heard the last episode or
last week's episode, we wentover this like ick list, which I
don't know where the term ick.
I know where it came from, butI'm just curious as why is this
year, the year of ick every likeInstagram, Facebook, all I see
(39:19):
are people like, Ooh, that's it.
So I guess that's like a newfucking term.
But, we got this, huh?
Casey (39:25):
Said no cap.
No cap?
Kari (39:28):
What?
What am I missing?
Anyways.
I'm not gonna tell you.
Yeah, please don't.
We got this book, and it wascalled The Ick List, and we got
it from like, five below inpassing in their like,
Valentine's section.
But it has been fun.
It has been fun, but there's alot of like, What if you are on
a date and someone did this orwould you like this or that?
(39:50):
Right.
And so last year, last episode,you heard me ask Casey
questions.
So now he's going to ask mequestions.
So
Casey (39:57):
we're today we're playing, would you rather, and
this is, would you rather go ona date with someone that this or
that?
Okay.
Ready?
Okay.
I got it.
Refuses to speak to anystranger.
Or strikes up conversation withanyone within three feet of
them.
So which one would I rather?
Yeah.
Who would you rather be on adate with?
The person that does not speakto anyone around them or the
(40:19):
person that's only speaks likeeverybody else.
I still
Kari (40:22):
think I'd rather the person that like speaks to other
people.
Yeah.
That's fun.
Casey (40:26):
It creates a fun atmosphere.
Kari (40:27):
Yeah.
It's fun.
Like.
I don't know.
I guess I would imagine 20 yearslater, you're to your partner
like, well, you just shut thefuck up and stop talking to
everybody.
But I think if I'm like on adate, I would much rather be
with someone that's like fun andoutgoing and chatty and
talkative.
Hopefully
Casey (40:45):
they would know in the moment be like, Hey, my interest
level for sure should be here.
Yeah.
But there's nothing wrong withspeaking to people around you.
It just creates for more of afun atmosphere.
Okay.
So, complains about dog fur ordoesn't clean up after their
pet.
I feel like that one's a dumb
Kari (41:02):
one.
That's a dumb one.
If you're gonna have a dog, youhave to clean up for it and you
can't complain about it.
Like, then don't own pets.
That's we're going to, we're
Casey (41:10):
going to skip that one was dumb.
So either someone that speaksvery loudly, stop it.
Or speaks in a near whisper
Kari (41:20):
that was geared towards me.
No if I have to ask you torepeat yourself, because I can't
hear what you're saying, I'mgoing to stop.
I'm going to I'm just not goingto like speak the fuck up.
I would rather me be like, Hey,turn it down.
Then be like, what?
What are you saying?
What?
What?
And because most times if I'mtaking someone out to a place,
it's going to be a place thatyou better fucking speak up.
(41:42):
Oh yeah?
You know?
Casey (41:44):
Go ahead.
Okay, that's fair.
So, would you rather go on adate with someone that spills
food on themselves or trips overtree roots?
Kari (41:54):
Three roots.
Okay, got it.
So you're walking
Casey (41:56):
down the street and they've got
Kari (41:58):
both of those are clumsy.
Yeah.
So what?
I rather clumsy or clumsy.
Got it.
Yeah.
Which,
Casey (42:03):
which sort of clumsy?
I
Kari (42:05):
don't know.
Like at least it doesn't makeyou look messy.
Casey (42:08):
That's true.
Yeah.
I'd probably go with tree rootsas
Kari (42:10):
well, but like clumsy over clumsy.
You're not giving me a lot togo.
Casey (42:16):
All right.
Let's see that leaves their foodwrappers everywhere.
Okay.
Okay.
Or refuses to eat in front ofyou.
I think
Kari (42:23):
I'd rather you just not eat in front of me.
I
Casey (42:26):
would go with food wrappers.
I would totally disagree.
No, if you're going to
Kari (42:29):
be a slob, then like, then eat in your own time.
Yeah.
Casey (42:34):
I get that.
But still at the same time withfood wrappers, it's, we can have
a discussion around it.
And listen, you tend to leaveyour food wrappers everywhere.
Please start picking up afteryourself.
Kari (42:47):
It around you.
Would that be like
Casey (42:49):
weird to you?
I think they were like an alienor a robot.
Do you not eat?
Kari (42:55):
Okay.
When do you eat?
Where do you eat?
Yeah.
Casey (42:58):
With what?
And then finally the somebodythat snaps at the waiter or
illegally parks in theaccessible parking spot.
I know Casey's.
You actually don't.
Kari (43:10):
So you would rather someone snap at the waiter?
No, I don't know, because youget so fussy about people
parking in
Casey (43:18):
handicapped parking spots.
Oh, I'm
Kari (43:19):
fussy about it.
I have never heard someonecomplain about one thing the
most.
Casey (43:25):
About handicapped
Kari (43:26):
parking?
Like, one topic, at least acouple times a week I hear you
bitch about someone doing it.
Casey (43:33):
That's because I see it a couple times a
Kari (43:34):
week.
But I get to hear about it everytime.
Casey (43:38):
Yeah, you do.
You had to hear me vent a lot.
I, most, one of the things Ivent most about is driving.
Driving and then gyms areprobably my two big ones.
You complain about so many
Kari (43:47):
people in a gym.
There's a lot to complain aboutwhen someone's in a gym.
I totally get it.
I'm just shocked that you'reshocked.
Casey (43:56):
My complaint around that stuff is about people that
everyone else complains about.
Hey, this person sits on theirphone instead of using the
machine and they sit there forlike 10 minutes and you're
waiting.
You're like, okay, you couldjust not be on it.
Okay, but I've
Kari (44:11):
never heard you say that complaint.
Your complaints are like, theyset up a tripod and they're
taking videos of themselves.
I'm like, duh, you're in a gym.
What the fuck else do you thinkis going to happen?
Workout?
People don't workout in a gym.
They make videos of themselves.
They show up, make videos andleave.
And they leave.
Like,
Casey (44:30):
duh.
Don't do that shit during peakhours.
This is like the middle ofpeople's lunch during the week.
Go there.
Yeah.
That's funny.
Like I go to a 24 hour a daygym.
One content creator could go tothat gym on a Saturday night or
a Sunday morning or somethingand make stuff 30 days worth of
content.
Bring a couple different outfitsand do different movements on
(44:51):
different fucking pieces ofequipment instead of having to
set up your camera every singletime you're in there.
Yeah.
And blocking people's use.
I actually one girl and.
That was using the, like, theleg the one that exercises your
inner thigh muscles.
But her tripod, instead of setup, like, to the side, was set
up directly in front.
Oh, come on,
Kari (45:10):
babe.
I don't, again, I just don'tknow why you're surprised by
this stuff.
It just, it floors me thatyou're shocked by this.
Casey (45:16):
It's not surprising.
It's not that It's
Kari (45:18):
not.
That's why I don't understandwhy you complain about it.
I'm like, what?
That's It's just common practice
Casey (45:24):
now.
What do you mean?
It's again, it's not that it'ssurprising.
It's something that I now haveto feel, I feel like I have to
be like aware of because I don'twant to like get in.
I don't want to like pass themin front of their stuff.
I don't, I just want to do myown thing.
If they're
Kari (45:42):
an influencer, they already know how to cut your
image out so you don't have toworry about it.
They know how to
Casey (45:45):
edit it.
I love it.
for siding with everyone else.
Kari (45:49):
When it comes to gym stuff.
Yes, babe.
What gym do you go to?
I do yoga.
I don't go to a gym.
Oh, that's right.
But even more so like I'm not init and I know how it is.
You're in it.
That's why I'm so floored thatyou're like focused on it.
You're in it more than I am.
And I know how it works.
Like, come on, baby.
(46:10):
Answer the question, though.
You didn't
Casey (46:11):
answer the question.
Oh, no, I'd much rather thempark in front of, or park in a
handicapped spot.
I feel like the handicapped spotthat are out there.
Kari (46:19):
Well, I don't remember what the other one was now.
The hand, oh, the snapping.
I think that if I were to snapat someone in a restaurant, it's
probably because I can snaplouder than would be appropriate
for me to say something.
I have, we talked about, I thinkwe talked about this like
Casey (46:35):
last week.
We did and talked about howinappropriate it is to snap
Kari (46:37):
at a waiter.
I have snapped, but I wouldrather snap at, cause I can,
again, I can like snap loud,then like.
Hey, yo, or like, ma'am, superloud.
But either way, it just kind ofdepends on where you're at.
If you're in a quiet restaurantand you're snapping at someone.
I'm in a loud space and I'mdoing it to get your attention.
(46:57):
I wouldn't see it that way, butat the same time, like I've
never been a waiter.
So I don't know.
I don't know how I would feelabout that.
But you have.
So if someone snapped at you,would you be like, snap at me?
Absolutely.
Casey (47:10):
It's so rude to snap at a, snap at surface.
I'm trying to get your attentionover here.
Yeah.
No, you don't do that.
There's a million fucking otherways to do it.
Don't do that.
It's fair.
You impatient
Kari (47:23):
fucks.
I am an inpatient person.
I wouldn't call myself aninpatient fuck, but I am a
patient.
Like
Casey (47:30):
they're going to walk by your tape.
Not always though.
And you know what?
It's easy to be like, you can doit non verbally, super simple to
do because they're looking.
Okay.
Now, if you have somebody that'sso ignorant.
As a surface industry thatthey're not even looking at your
table, then I don't know what totell you then, but I still don't
think snapping at them isappropriate.
(47:52):
Fair.
I think we've covered everythingtoday.
Yeah, we have.
Anyway, for another episode ofcome with Casey we are your
hosts.
I'm Dr.
Casey Sanders and I'm CarrieSanders.
Thanks.
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