April 23, 2024 • 63 mins
Benjamin Diaz Villa is an ordained elder and pianist at First Cumberland Presbyterian Church of Houston, chair of Trinity Presbytery Board of Christian Education, and is currently a PhD aerospace engineering student at the University of Texas at Austin. His research is currently on hypersonic aeroelasticity, and he enjoys composing music in his free time.
Music is provided by Pierce Murphy, Caldera Blue.
Source: https://www.freemusicarchive.org/music/Pierce_Murphy/through-the-olive-branches/caldera-blue
Comments: http://freemusicarchive.org/
Additional comments: modifications made to shorten and loop song for introduction and closing of podcast.
Copyright Attribution and License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
T.J. (00:03):
You were listening to the Cumberland Road, and I'm your
host TJ Malinoski. The followingis a faith conversation with
Benjamin Diaz Villa, an ordainedelder and pianist at the First
Cumberland Presbyterian Churchof Houston. Ben is a PhD
(00:27):
student, Aerospace andEngineering at the University of
Texas at Austin, currentlystudying hypersonic
aeroelasticity. In this faithconversation, we talk about
being a Christian and how oursearch for knowledge and
understanding is a journey ofgetting closer to God. Here is
(00:55):
my conversation with BenjaminDiaz Villa.
Ben, you're a PhD student at theUniversity of Texas at Austin in
aerospace engineering andengineering mechanics. And
there's more to that. Do youmind breaking that down in terms
(01:16):
of what you are studying andwhat your vocation is?
Ben (01:20):
Absolutely. Well, thank you, TJ, for, having me here.
First of all, I would like tosay. If there are any other CPs
out there, that are long forms,you know, you have my contact
information bio that I'll give.
T.J. (01:37):
We're very happy
Ben (01:38):
to be
T.J. (01:39):
You're creating a subgroup within the larger group.
Ben (01:42):
That's right. We're gonna dominate the SCC in 20, this
this football season, 2024, 25.Yeah. So I am a I'm an aerospace
engineer. I got my mechanicalengineering degree from the
University of Houston then mymaster's in aerospace from UT
(02:03):
Austin.
And then now I am completing myPhD in aerospace as well. The
topic that I study is onhypersonic aerothermodynamics,
aerothermoelecticity. So that'sa that's a mouthful right there,
but it basically is theinteraction of high speed
(02:25):
aerodynamics with structuraldynamics on any type of vehicle
that flies that fast. And byfast, I mean, 5 times the speed
of sound or faster. And so atypical example that I give is,
the space shuttle, was one ofthose space planes hypersonic
(02:46):
vehicles that when launched intoorbit, the orbit would be 17
1,000 plus miles per hour.
And if you make the math, itturns out to be Mach 25 or 25
times the speed of sound. And,upon reentry, it would
decelerate, but it would stillbe hypersonic. And so, I deal
(03:09):
with how the structure is goingto heat up. You know, it's going
to expand. It's going to todeform.
And, how, you know, the largepressure of air is, making that
structure deform. And so that'swhat I study in in aerospace
engineering.
T.J. (03:30):
So you're really looking for materials that is able that
is malleable, that is able toexpand, contract, bend, and then
fall back into its maybeoriginal shape prior to
hypersonic speed.
Ben (03:48):
That's right. Yes. And the reason it gets hot is because
for I'm going to explain it invery basic terms. There's a lot
of Please. Friction, skinfriction, and, the drag from
high speed flight justbasically, when you're traveling
that fast, the aircraft issplitting the air molecules.
(04:11):
So you have oxygen, which is o2. You have nitrogen, which is n
2. And so that oxygen gets splitapart into separate oxygen
atoms. Your nitrogen will alsoget split apart. And what
happens is you you release theair releases electrons as well,
and so you create plasmids.
It's so much so hot upon reentrythat you're you're it's
(04:33):
comparable to the temperatures,of the sun, basically.
T.J. (04:39):
No way. So are there materials that actually can that
are human made that actually cansustain those temperatures for
short periods of time without,like, total destruction?
Ben (04:53):
The we've made advances, and there are ablative
materials. So ablation is whenthe solid turns into a gas and
it and that's a verydestructive, phenomenon there.
But that is the closest we'vegotten to, being able to have a
material that can withstandthat. And this all comes back
(05:17):
from, you know, the Apollomission and the X15 flights
where, they were trying to solvethis problem and they they find
they found that ceramics andcarbon carbon composites, are
good insulators and, ablators.So, they actually have released
videos of this where they take atorch and they fire it on a
(05:40):
sample, like a space shuttletile sample.
And on one side, it's gonna bered, glowing hot. On the other
side, they ask the person totouch it. And and they actually
touch it, and they they don'tget burned because it's actually
a very good insulator.
T.J. (05:55):
Wow. Wow. I I think I would have to use, like, an
infrared thermometer on thebackside to confirm the
temperature before I evertouched it with my index finger.
Ben (06:09):
That is yeah. Infrared is one of the many diagnostics we
use to measure temperature onthat surface.
T.J. (06:16):
Are you involved much in the actual, propulsion? I mean,
because you're talking aboutMach 5 man beyond. Our
traditional means of propulsionis, well, fuel or some, you
know, in gas or liquid form. Arethere areas where we can explore
(06:40):
different ideas, differentmethods of propulsion instead of
this old fashioned 19 forties?
Ben (06:48):
Yes. One of the side projects I have while doing this
PhD is, I'm working on ascramjet project. So, airplane,
propulsion, if you get on aBoeing 737, you see the g
engines, their, turbo engines.And the, basically they you have
(07:13):
in the middle of the engine, itcombusts, the air. So it
pressurizes the air, and then itinjects fuel and it combusts.
And all of that, the air insideis subsonic, which means that
it's traveling through theengine, at speeds lower than the
speed of sound. There abovethat, you use a ramjet, which is
(07:36):
from Mach 2 to 3 all the way toMach 6. The ramjet basically is
just a special shaped tube that,compresses the air, without any
moving parts. So it has nospinning shaft or rotor or
anything like that. And thecombustion inside still occurs
(07:57):
at subsonic speeds because theair has been decelerated to
subsonic speed.
But then the next level up isscramjet. So scramjet is still
like a ramjet. It is a speciallydesigned tube. That's what I
call it. And it the combustionhappens at supersonic speeds.
And so imagine lighting a matchin a hurricane. Right? It's you
(08:21):
can't because the the wind willjust blow it off. So the the
challenge is trying to combustthe air at those speeds. And so
in the wind tunnel that we havehere at UT Austin, we can put a
scramjet model inside and thenreplicate, combustion by
(08:41):
changing the back pressure ofthe of that engine and looking
at how the incoming aerodynamicsare affected by, you know, that
back pressure.
T.J. (08:52):
When you do the testing and something works or fails,
what is the reaction among yourcolleagues? Do you get excited
and cheer and and, you know,have a great commentary? Kind of
like you're at, you we werealluding to, sports earlier,
football earlier. It it do youhave that type of atmosphere
(09:13):
where you're sort of in awe of,like, woah, it really it worked,
or or that thing flung apartbefore we could even get to Mach
5 and beyond? What what is thatenvironment like?
Ben (09:27):
It is I would say, you know, for the purposes of this
podcast, I'll say it's it's anenvironment of faith. You have
to have faith in in what you'rebuilding and testing out in the
wind tunnel.
T.J. (09:38):
Mhmm.
Ben (09:40):
So we treated as launch day, actually. So, imagine
you're you're launching a rocketfor the first time and you
wanted to go into orbit. It'sthe same feeling. You put
something in the wind tunnel.You because I'm dealing with
flexible structures, I want mymodel to be flexible enough to
gather data.
But not too flexible that itbreaks. And so I have to walk.
(10:04):
You know, the fine line of, youknow, how, how rigid or how
flexible it should be. And whenit works, I, and you get
beautiful data it's it's we docelebrate, when it doesn't work,
I usually have to take the walkof shame and go outside and try
to look for the broken piecesbecause the when when the model
(10:26):
breaks, it gets, swept downdownstream. The the the wind
tunnel, the wind tunnel is opento the atmospheric environment
outside, and there's a wholefield of grass out there.
And so I would have to do, Iwould have to go out there and
and pick up the broken pieces.But but, yeah, I like I like
that environment. It keeps youon your toes.
T.J. (10:46):
Yeah. I guess it really is a walk of shame because you
could be out there for a goodlong while finding very small
pieces of your broken model.Yep. One other question I
thought of, of course I have alot because this is a new field
to me. When you're collectingdata, do the models in and of
(11:08):
themselves, can they do theycontain sensors and, you know,
measuring tools?
Are they or are they allexternal or both?
Ben (11:21):
Yes. So because we're dealing with tight space in the
wind tunnel, our cross sectionis 6 inches by 7 inches. So our
models have to be, no less widerthan an inch and a half. And
then they can be as long as theycan be, like, a foot long. But
(11:42):
because of that, we cannot put alot of sensors inside.
So, we do rely on opticaldiagnostics, which basically
means that we use cameras andother types of photo detectors
to measure the flow, measure thestructure deformation. But we
(12:03):
can also put what's known asaccelerometers inside the model.
And so accelerometers, theymeasure the acceleration. And
with that, you can get an ideaof the dynamic deformation of
the structure. And you can alsoput strand gauges.
And that can also tell you howmuch strain there is on on the
(12:25):
structure. And so strain is, ameasure of of deformation as
well.
T.J. (12:30):
So What a rewarding field you must be in because you get
to create and then test, andyou're able to see progress
along the way, or failure, andthen make adjustments to be able
to yet try again. I mean, it'slike the the best that the world
(12:52):
has to offer because when youfail, you have additional days,
you know, to, oh, okay, we'lljust make this adjustment.
Because in some areas of life,you're not afforded, you know,
failure. You can really dodamage, let's say, to a
relationship, say somethingawful or terrible, to hurt the
(13:14):
other person. And not that youcan't, you know, seek
forgiveness and provide healing,but it's not it's not quite the
same as a as, a nonhuman model,you know, you know, where you
can just start again.
Ben (13:33):
Yeah. That's true. Especially within aerospace, we
have the mentality of, try tofail as fast as possible and
learn from them. That's why yousee so many SpaceX Starships or
SpaceX Rockets being blown up,and and they can do that because
it actually helps them in thelong run, try to learn fast
(13:56):
because they're trying to, youknow, outcompete the other
companies. That can you'reright.
It can't be applied,specifically to interpersonal
relationships. You know, it's aperson has. A lot of words as as
a human being as a child of God.And and so you can't treat
(14:17):
another person as as if it werea machine you can break down and
and and and build back together.You cannot do that.
T.J. (14:24):
Yeah. You would have no friends. You would have no
relationships. If you got up onemorning, it was like, I'm going
to test this relationship andsee what it takes, stress it to
the point of it failure. You maynot be able to restore that
relationship.
But the field that you're in,Ben, is kind of, is counter to
(14:50):
maybe most people's upbringingswhere it is succeed, succeed,
succeed and avoid failure asmuch as possible because failure
can indicate weakness, failurecan indicate, maybe lack of
smartness. I don't know ifthat's a word, but we'll use it
for this conversation. And butyet, you're in a field that
(15:14):
purposely stresses, throughtheory and through testing,
points of failure to correct it.And that seems it seems like
we've been raised to avoidfailure, and here you are
actually being paid to in a wayto fail. That's not your
(15:38):
ultimate goal, But, yeah, thatseems strange.
Tell me more about that.
Ben (15:44):
Yeah. It is. And I've I've seen you know, I think there has
been a shift over the pastcentury of the mindset in the in
the work working culture.Because now, you know, I'm also
taking business courses atschool of business, at UT
Austin. And within the startupworld, you don't have that same
(16:11):
mentality of you can't fail.
You actually wanna fail in thestartup world. And and something
I've learned is that if youwanna get funding for your own
startup company, from venturecapitalists, the the they are
actually looking for people thathave experience in in the
failure of 1 company of, youknow, starting their own company
because that experience actuallyteaches them a lot. And so they
(16:35):
they're actually more prone tofunding a venture by someone who
has failed in the past and haslearned from their mistakes and
now has a better way of doingthings. So it definitely the
working culture, especiallywithin the technical field, has
changed over the past years.
T.J. (16:57):
Ben, how did you get interested in the field of
engineering and aerospaceengineering and just engineering
mechanics?
Ben (17:09):
Yes. Well, ever since I was a child and I remember being in
Colombia, I moved, we moved tothe US, when I was 6. So I still
have a lot of memories from whenI lived there. And, I can
remember saying from a young agethat I wanted to be an
astronaut. Just looking atpeople floating in space, I
(17:33):
always thought they had somesort of superpower because they
were floating.
And so I was like, okay, I wantto do the same. And then, and
then here in the US I startedwatching the winter Olympics and
you, you know, you have the, thesport where they, the ski jump.
And so they, they jump and theylike seem to fly or glide for a
(17:55):
long time until they land. Andso that also caught my
attention. And and I learnedlater, oh, it's due to the
aerodynamics that the person canactually, you know, jump for
long distances.
And, and so I mixed the 2, and Isaid, yeah. I wanna be an
aerospace engineer. The reason Igot my mechanical engineering
(18:16):
degree from the didn't have anaerospace program. But I knew
that I I was gonna get amaster's and a PhD in aerospace
ultimately. So, mechanical wasthe closest thing.
And, so I stuck it out for 4years in mechanical and later
on, transferred to to UT forthat for aerospace.
T.J. (18:41):
How long have you been in the position that you currently
have?
Ben (18:48):
PhD program?
T.J. (18:49):
Well, just know in terms of, career. Right? Or is your
PhD oh, let me think about myquestion here. So you're a
student, but you also you're astudent, but you also have to
you have bills to pay. So isthat part of your PhD program or
do you you actually have avocation on top of while you're
(19:13):
studying?
Ben (19:14):
Yes. So I have 2 separate, sources of income to help pay,
for everything. So I have I'vebeen blessed to get a national
fellowship, which is called theNSF GRFP fellowship. It's given
to graduate students in all ofthe sciences. And so that gives
(19:38):
me a livable stipend.
And it also pays for tuition andeverything else. And then on the
other end, I also, I'm thepianist of my church, in
Houston. So I actually travelback and forth every weekend
(19:59):
from Austin to Houston, and I amthe pianist in the, morning
worship service. So it's alltraditional, traditional hymns.
I, you know, I sight readclassical music for pre ludes
and post ludes.
I accompany the choir, and thenthe afternoon worship service,
(20:20):
which is the, Spanish worshipservice. That's where I help
direct the music. So, we singmore contemporary songs. And,
and sometimes it's a mix ofSpanish and English, or
sometimes it's just in Spanish.But, so I do that on the
(20:41):
weekends.
And I cannot on the weekends, Ialso see my parents. So that's a
that's a big plus as well. And Ican still be active in the
church. So I do make that Isometimes make the drive from
Austin to Houston, or I justtake the bus, which is way
better because I can just reador study or take a nap.
T.J. (21:01):
How long of a bus ride is it?
Ben (21:04):
It's over 3 hours because it does stop along the way.
Mhmm. Yeah.
T.J. (21:11):
And you've been playing the piano at Houston first since
high school. I've I've heard youplay there before. When did you
get into music? Have you alwaysbeen into music?
Ben (21:25):
Yeah. Well, my dad, he plays the guitar. He's started
teaching me the guitar, andthen, and then I was in middle
school choir, and that's how Istarted being more interested in
playing the piano. And so myparents paid for piano classes.
(21:48):
And I took piano classes all theway through, all the way through
college as well.
And, I've had the position aspianist at my church since, high
school, actually, since 2014.Mhmm. So it's I'm gonna be,
celebrating 10 years, thiscoming October.
T.J. (22:12):
That's amazing. 10 years. My Colombian brothers and
sisters have this knack, thislove for music, which I've
always admired, especially withmusical instruments, which a
talent I do not have. So did youfall did playing the piano come
(22:36):
naturally to you, or was it wasit a difficult practice?
Ben (22:42):
So it kinda did, you know, being inquirer, they taught me
how to sight read and soulfetch.And one of the daily activities
the choir teacher would do is hewould, play 2 notes and then you
would have to say what theinterval was or what the solfege
(23:04):
for it was. And I was reallygood at that. I do not have
perfect pitch, but I do haverelative perfect pitch, which
means that if you play a song,and then you tell me what key it
is in, then I can replicate iton the piano because I already
know what the key is in. And Iand in my head, I, I can think
of notes in both in and in theiractual names, a, b, c, d, e, f,
(23:27):
g.
And that's how it came to me.And so I started playing on the
piano without any instruction atall because of the music theory
that I have from choir. And thenafter getting lessons, I saw
that music is much moremathematical. Basic basically,
(23:47):
music is math. And, I was reallygood at math too.
And so, it just came to me that,yeah, it you know, music is very
enjoyable.
T.J. (24:01):
Mhmm. Do you enjoy playing music more or hearing others
sing and play an instrument?
Ben (24:16):
I like both playing music for me, especially because I
have a keyboard here at in myapartment. You know, when I'm
stressed, that helps me destress. And also helps me be
creative as well. So I composemusic as well. I I've written
songs.
I've written Christian songs.I've also composed classically.
(24:41):
I I love to one of my rolemodels in composition has been,
Rachmaninoff, Chopin, and Bach.Those are the main 3. And so a
lot of my compositions have aweird blend of the 3.
And it's interesting becauseBock is from the Baroque area.
Chopin is from the romantic eraand Rahman and office from the
(25:03):
post romantic era when he diedin 1943. So I've, I've I've
enjoyed doing all of them, youknow, listening to other people,
playing by myself, andcomposing. So yes.
T.J. (25:19):
Ben, you grew up in a Christian household, and both
your mother and your father areministers in the Cumberland
Presbyterian Church. Growing up,what was that environment like?
Did you have theologicalconversations even as a young
(25:40):
child? Did you hear theologicalconversations? Did you jump
right in with your mother andyour father and share your own
perspective?
Was it received? I've loaded youdown with questions there, but
kind of walk me through, thehousehold that you grew up in
(26:01):
and how faith interacted in inall aspects of the family life?
Ben (26:09):
Absolutely. So, my parents, were in the seminary. I think
they were they already had theirmasters, and they started
teaching in the seminary inMedellin, Colombia. And I was
born. So ever since I was born,I was in that theological
(26:30):
environment.
I've been going, I was going totheir classes, where they
taught, Hebrew, Greek, and, andso and also being in the car
rides, just being in the backseat, listening to their
theological discussions as well.And I just well, I always joke
(26:51):
about this and I say that, youknow, one of my, one of the
basic theological questions thathas always been on my mind and
it, my dad asked this questionto me once is, you know, if a
mosquito did Jesus while he was,you know, back 2000 years ago,
did that mosquito, you know, getany special powers or any, did
(27:16):
that mosquito, you know, getblessed from his, you know,
divine blood. Questions, youknow, as as trivial as that,
but, you know, it makes youthink.
T.J. (27:27):
It does. Yeah. He's never posed that one to me. I'll try
to be prepared with an answer ifhe ever does.
Ben (27:38):
But yes. And then they they were ministers of several
churches in Medellin. And so, Iwent with them wherever they
went. So there were 4 churches,I believe that they ministered
in Medellin. The one of themwas, this La Centrada, which is
(28:01):
the church in in the heart ofMedellin.
The other one was in El Salado,which, was in a poor community
of Medellin back then. Mhmm. I'mnot sure how much it has changed
because I haven't been backthere in years. The other one
was. Is another neighborhood.
(28:23):
And I can't remember the 4thone. But, yeah. So, basically,
all week long, they've, I I wasin the car with them going to
these different services andactivities. And interestingly,
for my first birthday and wehave video record of this. I
(28:47):
spent the whole week eating cakeat different churches.
And so I was, you can see theprogression as the week went by.
I just I just got tired andtired of, you know, the same
thing and for my first birthday.
T.J. (29:04):
That's right. You were involved in so many faith
communities that well,especially as a small child,
that could be advantageousbecause you had multiple
birthday parties.
Ben (29:18):
That's true.
T.J. (29:20):
So you said around, 6 years old, you and your parents
or maybe it would be yourparents and you moved to the
United States. What is some fondmemories that you have in that
transition, in that culturalchange, in that shift, as a 6
(29:41):
year old, but also growing upand and continuing your
schooling in the United States?
Ben (29:51):
Yeah. So coming here, the only word I knew how to say was
yes. So I ended up, playingrandom sports with a lot of
different kids because the onlything I could say was, yes. Do
you know how to play? Yeah.
Yeah. So that's a that's a goodway for me to socialize coming
here. But, yeah, learningEnglish as a child was not that
(30:17):
difficult. Well, it is at thebeginning, but, I'd say it only
takes about a year or even lessthan that. I started getting,
thirties in my reading exams, atthe beginning of 2nd grade.
And with the help of my mom, wegot those grades up to 80, after
(30:42):
I'd say, 3 months, 4 months. Andthen after that, I would get
nineties and above in my readingassignments. So it was hard at
first. And, I remember for oneof the exams, you know, the very
first exam where you have openended questions, because I
didn't know what was going on. Ijust simply copy and paste it
(31:06):
from from the book, like,certain passages.
T.J. (31:08):
Mhmm.
Ben (31:09):
And and, you know, it's that's that's the that's the
best I could have done. But, butthen it progressed well over
over time.
T.J. (31:20):
Just because we grow up in Christian households doesn't
necessarily mean that we aredisciples of Jesus Christ. Ben,
can you remember a point of timewhere your faith was beginning
(31:40):
to separate away from yourmother and your father, and you
were having your ownrelationship with God?
Ben (31:49):
Absolutely. Well, I'd say it, and I think a lot of young
adults, go through this. That'swhen they they leave the house.
You know, it could be forcollege or could be for work.
That's that's when, you know,your faith is gonna be tested a
lot.
(32:11):
And so
T.J. (32:12):
Ben, whatever do you mean?
Ben (32:18):
Yeah. Yeah. It's just just, you know, because you have to
handle a lot a lot of things byyourself, a lot of
responsibilities Mhmm. And alsonavigating, friendships. And a
lot of people, I would say,especially if you don't have a
(32:39):
church community to go towherever you're going, those
friendships may not beChristian, friendships.
T.J. (32:48):
Mhmm.
Ben (32:48):
And so, that's when you really have to hold on to your
faith and and be be a shininglight for everybody else.
T.J. (32:59):
And you didn't really leave your core faith community
because you you've beenreturning back to Houston every
Sunday through college and nowpost college, all through your
your higher academic career. Soeven if and please correct me if
(33:20):
I'm wrong, you your core group,your accountability group, the
people who love you and you lovethem, you were still seeing them
on a a regular basis, if not aweekly basis.
Ben (33:36):
Yes. That's right. And even recently, I've also, during the
week, been going to bible study,in a group of young
professionals, here in Austinthat is not Presbyterian or
coming from Presbyterianrelated. It's from a
nondenominational church. But, Iknow most of the people there
(33:59):
because, they're also PhDstudents.
And so we get together and ourBible studies are. Are really
densely packed because we knowhow to analyze things. And we
also have, law students in ourgroup as well. So they they take
an interesting approach toreading the Bible from a from a
law policy perspective.
T.J. (34:20):
Okay. That's interesting. Let me ask you some questions
then. Can we, from yourperspective, look at the
scriptures and and look at ourfaith practices and pick them,
deconstruct them down to a pointthat there is not much left,
(34:42):
where maybe the mystery, thefaith, the the love gets to a
place where it can no longereven be it can no longer be
articulated nor experienced.
Ben (35:02):
That is a very interesting point of view because, you know,
science, engineering, it's allabout being able to understand
and articulate what you'relearning
T.J. (35:14):
Mhmm.
Ben (35:15):
And what you're discovering. Now there could now
in the, on the spiritual side ofthings, you know, how they say
the spirit works in mysteriousways. And they're they're re
really there is truth in itbecause there might be some
instances of our faith that justcan't be calculated or can't be
(35:37):
explained a lot. And so I doagree that there is an aspect to
it where it's very much, it'svery much spiritual and non non
graspable. I'm trying to findwords here, but yeah.
T.J. (36:01):
Yeah. I believe that, the extreme approaches to faith and
study in the scriptures. 1,where everything is accepted
just totally blindly without anyquestions, without any doubt is
not healthy and does not leadto, you know, a good solid life
(36:22):
of discipleship. And then on theother extreme where everything
is approached as a problem to besolved or revealed, removes
elements of the unknown in themystery or were bent on such a
(36:43):
path to where I'm not able toaccept this until a solution
reveals itself. Mhmm.
Ben (36:50):
And I
T.J. (36:50):
think those two extremes end up missing the point of
being a follower of God whereyou're comfortable with the
unknown, but not ignorant of theunknown. And I think there's
some sort of delicate balancethere in our journeys of and I
(37:12):
think it's pretty cool to have aGod that's big enough and strong
enough that allows us to kind oflive in all those different
realms to be able to askquestions and even deconstruct,
but also have the ability ofjust I want my faith to be
(37:34):
simple and I don't want to seethe underbellies of, you know,
theological ideas and concepts,and and I just want to believe,
and I just want to love. And I Ithink both of those have merit.
Both of them can also lead toplaces that make it difficult to
(37:54):
return.
Ben (37:56):
That's true. Yeah. And you can see it in the way some
preachers, approach theirtheology behind the sermon that
they're giving on a particularSunday. You know, I know from
from just listening to other,pastors, depending on how newly
(38:20):
graduated they are fromseminary. If they're re just
straight out of seminary, theirsermons are gonna be more, more
based on the or the theory andthe the the the technical terms
that they've used.
And, but if you see moreexperienced pastors, you know,
(38:41):
they they will make it morerelatable to current life
events. And, there's I I totallyagree that you can't have one
extreme or the other. You doneed a a blend of both. You need
a you need to know what you'rewhat you've been studying. You
(39:04):
need to know what other howother people have approached the
bible, how non Christians haveapproached the bible as well.
There's been philosophers,throughout the centuries that
have also, taken a, a look intotheology as well. And studying
(39:25):
all of that and then, you know,coming up with a a way to of
having that help you communicatewhat God wants you to
communicate. And and that's thethe gospel of of Jesus Christ.
So I I totally agree. You can'thave both, either extremes.
(39:47):
You have to have, a mixture ofboth.
T.J. (39:50):
We were talking off mic, about the differences and the
commonalities between havingfaith in Jesus Christ, and even
maybe broadly speaking, faith inother religions. But we'll we'll
talk about the faith that weknow the best and how, science,
(40:13):
and in terms of the theoreticalaspects that there may be some
commonalities that faithaddresses the unknown, things
that maybe are unsolvable, andbut there's also elements to
engineering and where thetheories also you're you're
(40:38):
doing work based upon theory andhopes that it could become fact.
I'm sort of meandering here,Ben. So sort of help me out in
terms of how can a person offaith also be in engineering
where mathematics, computationare high priorities?
Ben (41:02):
Mhmm. Absolutely. Just just the basic fact that we, as
humans, have the ability todiscover things in our universe
and have the ability to put intowords put into mathematical
formulas the the laws of physicsand being able to explain a lot
(41:27):
of things, and and and yet wehave not been able to explain a
lot of other things. Just beingable to have that capability, is
just evidence enough for peopleto know that there is a god that
created this universe and thatwe are fortunate enough to be
(41:49):
conscious of the fact that welive we live in God's creation.
And so in a way, studying moreabout the world around you is a
way to get closer to God.
And I believe that every time Imake a new discovery from the
experiments that I make, that noone else has done because that's
(42:12):
what a PhD is about is trying tomove the circle of knowledge
just a little bit wider everytime. Just being able to do that
is is very rewarding because Ialways, you know, tell God, you
know, I I'm always grateful forbeing able to be the first
(42:34):
person to discover that. And ittruly is a gift that God can
give to any scientist or anyengineer. It's being able to
say, Hey, I have all these hintsfor you now. It's I gave you a
mind, a mind of your own, Goahead and use it and and figure
(42:56):
out those hints.
And and looking at the biggerscheme of things, you know, this
past week, we had the eclipsehere in Austin. It was super
cool. And it made me think abouthow coincidental the fact that
we have one moon, not 2 moons or3 moons. We just have 1 moon.
(43:20):
And that's at the perfectdistance to have a total
eclipse, just at the perfectdistance where it could cover
all of the sun.
And at the same time, know that,you know, from the Apollo years,
you know, just that one moonallowed us to have so many
advancements in technology. Andthis one moon is, in these
(43:45):
coming years with the Artemismissions in NASA is going to
help us learn a lot before goingto Mars. And so it's like I
relate it to, we are in anisland and then there's just
this little island here that ifwe can hop onto that one and
learn from there, then we canhop onto others. And so, it's I
(44:05):
I think that, you know, thewhole solar system got created
was made intentional in thatway, leaving leaving hints here
and there for us to figure out.And then along the way, we we we
we acknowledge, hey, you know,God, that was really that was
really smart of you to do thatbecause it, you know, it was
(44:28):
challenging, but, you know, atat at the end, we got there.
So it's it's all about the thepath of getting closer to god
T.J. (44:35):
Mhmm.
Ben (44:36):
Within science and engineering.
T.J. (44:39):
A part of that is from your approach. You then you're
bringing god into the equationsand the experiments. And so with
each discovery or affirmation islike another layer of revelation
(45:00):
of god. But what about some ofyour colleagues, coworkers,
fellow students who may not bebringing that perspective into
their study, into thosediscoveries. What are those
interactions like with yourfriends, your colleagues, and
(45:20):
and fellow students, because noteverybody is a person of faith
and then not everybody is of theChristian faith.
Ben (45:32):
Well, I would say that even those that are not of the
Christian faith and are inacademia, they must have a faith
of some kind because they aredealing with the unknown. Mhmm.
And so, it is much easier toapproach my my academic
(45:56):
colleagues that are notChristians and be able to talk
in Christian terms with thembecause they understand what
faith is within their workplace.Now they they don't apply it to
the faith in Jesus Christ or thefaith in in the in God's eternal
promise for us. But they do knowwhat faith is.
(46:18):
So it is a very interesting,environment to be in, and to be
able to share the the gospelwith them.
T.J. (46:27):
I enjoy having those conversations. I think some of
my favorite theologicalconversations that I've had over
the years are those who are notfaith connected, because there's
a perspective there. Andsometimes it's right, sometimes
it's not right of it's typicallyon organized religion and not
(46:50):
necessarily a belief system inin who Jesus is and and what he
means for a disciple. But I'vejust found those the most
fascinating, the most rewarding,because I I end up learning
something about myself or aboutthe world or about God or that
(47:14):
other person or all of thosecombined, and they typically
have become bonding experiencesthat have led to additional
conversations. As opposed tomaybe theological conversations
with other Christians, it's veryeasy to fall into the temptation
of, I'm gonna spend this timetrying to convince Ben to
(47:37):
believe like TJ instead of anactual just a good solid
conversation or, debate, justfor terms of growth and instead
of instead of convincing youthat I'm right and you're wrong.
At least that's been my lifeexperience and not across the
(48:01):
board. I'm obviously, I'mspeaking generally, but, those
have been my experiences.
Ben (48:08):
Yes. So, recently, along the same lines, just having
academic discussions with mycolleagues, we do that every
day. But but it is a way for meto introduce them to the church.
And one of the ways I do that isrecently I did a music recital.
(48:33):
And this music recital, it ismade, almost every year, to help
raise funds for a scholarship wehave at our church that helps,
unrepresented students go tocollege.
So we have a scholarship fundand every recital we raise funds
for that. And so this February,this was the first time we did
(48:56):
the recital in Austin. And Iinvited our church music church
musicians to come with me, andwe played at the chapel at
Austin Theological SeminaryPresbyterian Theological
Seminary. And because it's rightacross the street from the
aerospace building, I was ableto put up a lot of flyers around
(49:20):
campus and especially inaerospace saying, hey, I'm going
to have this music recital. Andthe theme of the recital was,
impressionism in, art andscience.
T.J. (49:32):
Nice.
Ben (49:33):
And so impressionism in art, you know, is after the
romantic era, romanticism. And,it's in the late 1800, early
1900 as well. And so one of themost famous artists are Van Gogh
and Monet. And so the theme forit, being impressionism in art
(49:57):
and science. So theimpressionism in science comes
from the advances in fluiddynamics of the era.
So at the same time in the late1800s, there was a lot of
scientists studying thevortices, and water flow and
turbulence and, laminar flow andall of these, cool things you
(50:20):
see, in any type of flow, itcould be an air or water. And
they derive the governingequations that, define how the
flow should behave. And so oneof the questions I wanted to ask
was, well, we have impressionismin music and art, and we also
have these advances in scienceat the same time in the late
(50:41):
1800s. So, the question to askis, did the art influence the
science or did the scienceinfluence the art? And so that
was a good way for me to be ableto, invite a lot of my friends
that are not are not Christian,and come to a chapel, an old
chapel.
(51:01):
And then during the recital, oneof the pieces, was had a
Christian theme. And so I talkeda lot about, how that piece tied
in with the whole framework ofthings. And, I also showed
simulations from, from the samefriends that came to watch. I
(51:21):
showed the simulations of theirfluid flow, and I played music
while the simulations wererunning in the background. So it
was a very good way to introducemy non Christian colleagues to,
a church environment.
T.J. (51:35):
Nice. Nice, Ben. Is it possible to be able to see this
program? Is it available?
Ben (51:44):
It is. Yes. There's a YouTube link that shows the
highlights or a summary of it.
T.J. (51:51):
Okay. Alright. Alright. I I'd like to see that. That's
fascinating.
Ben, you have been part of theCumberland Presbyterian Church
since day 1 for you. And Yes.You've you've grown up in this
denomination. You've experiencedthis denomination in multiple
(52:15):
countries. You've been active inthe youth evangelism conferences
and CPYC, and many otheractivities in your growing up
years.
So as someone who has beenheavily influenced and heavily
nurtured by this denomination,I'm very interested to hear from
(52:38):
your perspective, what are someof the greatest assets and gifts
this denomination has to offerto the world?
Ben (52:53):
It reminds me of general assembly back in 2014. It's was
it 2014 or 2013? Can't remember.But the one of the sermons was
what's wrong with the middle.And, and, and so I I'd like to
(53:13):
reiterate that.
And we as come from thePresbyterian have no qualms
about being in the middle Andour theology is reflected on
that. We are a church that likesto be on the frontier since day
1 back in 18/10. And I believewe can still be the church that
(53:36):
is on the frontier. I alwaysjoke about, you know, maybe we
should send a commonPresbyterian pastor to space to
give the 1st sermon from space.That way, we are still the
church of the frontier.
T.J. (53:54):
Ben, I'll begin my physical training and mental
training now. I may have agedout of that program. Let's talk
about, from your perspective aswell, the areas, for improvement
as a denomination, as a smallerfamily church, I would say, in
(54:19):
the scheme of things. Where dowe have room where we can grow
and extend our reach andcontinue to love on people?
Ben (54:36):
There are so many areas we could grow, and it depends on
the community you're in. So ifyour church is right smack in
the middle of the city, youknow, there are areas to grow in
an urban setting. If your churchis in a suburban setting, there
are areas to grow there. If it'sclose to a university campus,
(54:58):
lots of areas to grow there. Ifit's in a multicultural
community, you could also growthere, and and have services
where it's in differentlanguages.
But also outside from church,you could grow, because the
(55:22):
church is not just the building.It's also going to your
workplace. And so something I'velearned from going to business
classes is network, network,network. So get out there, try
to meet as many people as youcan each day. Have a tally on
(55:42):
your whiteboard or something.
Say I met these 2 people. Great.They're in my, network, web.
Just just we could grow in in inthat area. Then there's
certainly different areas.
So yeah.
T.J. (56:02):
Our context matters of where we are and who we are when
it comes to practicing ourbeliefs and then being
intentional in sharing the goodnews, whether it's a new
acquaintance, a stranger, familymember, coworker, fellow
(56:24):
student. I'm just rewording whatyou've brilliantly already said.
Ben (56:33):
Yes. I mean and the and you can see it in our whole
denomination. There's we haveeverything from churches and,
small rural communities to bigchurches and big cities. Mhmm.
And and we're still onedenomination, so that's what I
like.
T.J. (56:53):
Yeah. Denomination was various cultures and various
languages, and, we still havecommonalities and I would say
the core to that is howimportant and how outstanding
the good news really is. And itneeds to be shared even on the
(57:14):
edges of the frontier, whetherthat's literal or metaphorical.
Ben (57:18):
That's right.
T.J. (57:19):
Yeah. Well, I know that you are so busy in reading books
pertaining to the program thatyou're in, but are there any
books that, you recommend thathave helped you along in your
faith or even to the point thatit just kind of gave you a good
(57:43):
laugh. I think religion becomesdangerous when it loses its
sense of humor.
Ben (57:50):
That's true. And Jesus had a lot of sense of humor.
T.J. (57:55):
Well well, look look at his followers even up to today.
You have to have a sense ofhumor if you're gonna put up
with humanity.
Ben (58:04):
That's right. So one of the books, I really like is the
truth about God by, will woman.And it's about the 10
commandments. And so it's placedin the 10 commandments, which
were written 1000 of years ago.But how they are relevant in our
(58:26):
everyday life.
That's one. And I wouldrecommend it to any young
professional, young adult, anyperson who's going to college
for the first time, this bookwill help you a lot
T.J. (58:42):
Alright.
Ben (58:43):
In your faith. So that's that's one. The other one is and
that's and this one's more onthe academic side. Every valley.
So it's this book right here.
Every Valley is a, like adevotional type book, meant for
(59:05):
the season right beforeChristmas. And it's it's taken
from Messiah. And for everysingle piece within the,
Handel's Messiah, it analyzesthe the scripture that Handel
(59:29):
used to help compose that piecefor the church. Nice. And so I
like it.
It if you have a classical musicupbringing, you would be able to
mix, you know, what the book issaying and what you know about
music theory and classical musicand how that all goes together
(59:51):
with, the theology behindHandel's Messiah.
T.J. (59:54):
Alright. Who is the publisher for Every Valley?
Ben (59:59):
Every Valley that is
T.J. (01:00:00):
Or the individual that compiled it?
Ben (01:00:05):
Okay. Question. Jessica Miller Kelly.
T.J. (01:00:09):
Okay. Thank you. Ben, thank you so much for giving me
your Monday for this recording.
Ben (01:00:22):
Absolutely. I
T.J. (01:00:23):
I have enjoyed getting to know you a little bit better.
And I hope I have honored you asBen and not through the eyes of
your parents. Try not to bringthem up too much for you.
Ben (01:00:37):
No. Well, being a p k p k squared. I'm sure there's other
p k squareds, listening to this,but they they know what what
you're talking about.
T.J. (01:00:47):
Absolutely. And and your mom and your dad have both been
previous guests on CumberlandRoad, so it's been a joy to be
able to, hear of your faithjourney, which is connected to
theirs. And you Yes. And and youand they are connected to yours
(01:01:08):
as well.
Ben (01:01:09):
Yes. Yeah. We we it's interesting. We still, we still
serve in the same church as afamily, all 3 of us.
T.J. (01:01:24):
For 10 years.
Ben (01:01:25):
That's right. Yeah. 10 years.
T.J. (01:01:29):
Ben, thank you for being a guest, today. I really
appreciated what you had to say,and you've made me feel smarter.
You made me feel like I knowmore today than when I first got
up.
Ben (01:01:40):
Thank you. Yeah. That's that's like goal of mine, be a
future professor as well. So
T.J. (01:01:45):
Alright.
Ben (01:01:46):
It's a good thing that I'm having other people learn
something new every day.
T.J. (01:01:51):
Thank you for listening to this episode of Cumberland Road.
If you enjoyed my conversationwith Ben, please check out the
other wonderful guests who havegone before him in sharing their
faith. In closing is a quotefrom William Willemon, one of
Ben's writers that he referencedearlier. The bible requires
(01:02:15):
being read constantly andregularly, all of it, to modern
readers accustomed bible cancome across to us as a mess. To
be sure, one encountersinconsistencies and
(01:02:36):
contradictions, to say nothingof downright bad ideas in the
bible. Scripture has a marvelousway of arguing with itself,
correcting itself, one witnessgiving counter testimony to
another. Scripture is a recordof people's determination to
hear god truthfully and then tofollow god faithfully.
You were listening to the Cumberland Road, and I'm your
host TJ Malinoski. The followingis a faith conversation with
Benjamin Diaz Villa, an ordainedelder and pianist at the First
Cumberland Presbyterian Churchof Houston. Ben is a PhD
(00:27):
student, Aerospace andEngineering at the University of
Texas at Austin, currentlystudying hypersonic
aeroelasticity. In this faithconversation, we talk about
being a Christian and how oursearch for knowledge and
understanding is a journey ofgetting closer to God. Here is
(00:55):
my conversation with BenjaminDiaz Villa.
Ben, you're a PhD student at theUniversity of Texas at Austin in
aerospace engineering andengineering mechanics. And
there's more to that. Do youmind breaking that down in terms
(01:16):
of what you are studying andwhat your vocation is?
Ben (01:20):
Absolutely. Well, thank you, TJ, for, having me here.
First of all, I would like tosay. If there are any other CPs
out there, that are long forms,you know, you have my contact
information bio that I'll give.
T.J. (01:37):
We're very happy
Ben (01:38):
to be
T.J. (01:39):
You're creating a subgroup within the larger group.
Ben (01:42):
That's right. We're gonna dominate the SCC in 20, this
this football season, 2024, 25.Yeah. So I am a I'm an aerospace
engineer. I got my mechanicalengineering degree from the
University of Houston then mymaster's in aerospace from UT
(02:03):
Austin.
And then now I am completing myPhD in aerospace as well. The
topic that I study is onhypersonic aerothermodynamics,
aerothermoelecticity. So that'sa that's a mouthful right there,
but it basically is theinteraction of high speed
(02:25):
aerodynamics with structuraldynamics on any type of vehicle
that flies that fast. And byfast, I mean, 5 times the speed
of sound or faster. And so atypical example that I give is,
the space shuttle, was one ofthose space planes hypersonic
(02:46):
vehicles that when launched intoorbit, the orbit would be 17
1,000 plus miles per hour.
And if you make the math, itturns out to be Mach 25 or 25
times the speed of sound. And,upon reentry, it would
decelerate, but it would stillbe hypersonic. And so, I deal
(03:09):
with how the structure is goingto heat up. You know, it's going
to expand. It's going to todeform.
And, how, you know, the largepressure of air is, making that
structure deform. And so that'swhat I study in in aerospace
engineering.
T.J. (03:30):
So you're really looking for materials that is able that
is malleable, that is able toexpand, contract, bend, and then
fall back into its maybeoriginal shape prior to
hypersonic speed.
Ben (03:48):
That's right. Yes. And the reason it gets hot is because
for I'm going to explain it invery basic terms. There's a lot
of Please. Friction, skinfriction, and, the drag from
high speed flight justbasically, when you're traveling
that fast, the aircraft issplitting the air molecules.
(04:11):
So you have oxygen, which is o2. You have nitrogen, which is n
2. And so that oxygen gets splitapart into separate oxygen
atoms. Your nitrogen will alsoget split apart. And what
happens is you you release theair releases electrons as well,
and so you create plasmids.
It's so much so hot upon reentrythat you're you're it's
(04:33):
comparable to the temperatures,of the sun, basically.
T.J. (04:39):
No way. So are there materials that actually can that
are human made that actually cansustain those temperatures for
short periods of time without,like, total destruction?
Ben (04:53):
The we've made advances, and there are ablative
materials. So ablation is whenthe solid turns into a gas and
it and that's a verydestructive, phenomenon there.
But that is the closest we'vegotten to, being able to have a
material that can withstandthat. And this all comes back
(05:17):
from, you know, the Apollomission and the X15 flights
where, they were trying to solvethis problem and they they find
they found that ceramics andcarbon carbon composites, are
good insulators and, ablators.So, they actually have released
videos of this where they take atorch and they fire it on a
(05:40):
sample, like a space shuttletile sample.
And on one side, it's gonna bered, glowing hot. On the other
side, they ask the person totouch it. And and they actually
touch it, and they they don'tget burned because it's actually
a very good insulator.
T.J. (05:55):
Wow. Wow. I I think I would have to use, like, an
infrared thermometer on thebackside to confirm the
temperature before I evertouched it with my index finger.
Ben (06:09):
That is yeah. Infrared is one of the many diagnostics we
use to measure temperature onthat surface.
T.J. (06:16):
Are you involved much in the actual, propulsion? I mean,
because you're talking aboutMach 5 man beyond. Our
traditional means of propulsionis, well, fuel or some, you
know, in gas or liquid form. Arethere areas where we can explore
(06:40):
different ideas, differentmethods of propulsion instead of
this old fashioned 19 forties?
Ben (06:48):
Yes. One of the side projects I have while doing this
PhD is, I'm working on ascramjet project. So, airplane,
propulsion, if you get on aBoeing 737, you see the g
engines, their, turbo engines.And the, basically they you have
(07:13):
in the middle of the engine, itcombusts, the air. So it
pressurizes the air, and then itinjects fuel and it combusts.
And all of that, the air insideis subsonic, which means that
it's traveling through theengine, at speeds lower than the
speed of sound. There abovethat, you use a ramjet, which is
(07:36):
from Mach 2 to 3 all the way toMach 6. The ramjet basically is
just a special shaped tube that,compresses the air, without any
moving parts. So it has nospinning shaft or rotor or
anything like that. And thecombustion inside still occurs
(07:57):
at subsonic speeds because theair has been decelerated to
subsonic speed.
But then the next level up isscramjet. So scramjet is still
like a ramjet. It is a speciallydesigned tube. That's what I
call it. And it the combustionhappens at supersonic speeds.
And so imagine lighting a matchin a hurricane. Right? It's you
(08:21):
can't because the the wind willjust blow it off. So the the
challenge is trying to combustthe air at those speeds. And so
in the wind tunnel that we havehere at UT Austin, we can put a
scramjet model inside and thenreplicate, combustion by
(08:41):
changing the back pressure ofthe of that engine and looking
at how the incoming aerodynamicsare affected by, you know, that
back pressure.
T.J. (08:52):
When you do the testing and something works or fails,
what is the reaction among yourcolleagues? Do you get excited
and cheer and and, you know,have a great commentary? Kind of
like you're at, you we werealluding to, sports earlier,
football earlier. It it do youhave that type of atmosphere
(09:13):
where you're sort of in awe of,like, woah, it really it worked,
or or that thing flung apartbefore we could even get to Mach
5 and beyond? What what is thatenvironment like?
Ben (09:27):
It is I would say, you know, for the purposes of this
podcast, I'll say it's it's anenvironment of faith. You have
to have faith in in what you'rebuilding and testing out in the
wind tunnel.
T.J. (09:38):
Mhmm.
Ben (09:40):
So we treated as launch day, actually. So, imagine
you're you're launching a rocketfor the first time and you
wanted to go into orbit. It'sthe same feeling. You put
something in the wind tunnel.You because I'm dealing with
flexible structures, I want mymodel to be flexible enough to
gather data.
But not too flexible that itbreaks. And so I have to walk.
(10:04):
You know, the fine line of, youknow, how, how rigid or how
flexible it should be. And whenit works, I, and you get
beautiful data it's it's we docelebrate, when it doesn't work,
I usually have to take the walkof shame and go outside and try
to look for the broken piecesbecause the when when the model
(10:26):
breaks, it gets, swept downdownstream. The the the wind
tunnel, the wind tunnel is opento the atmospheric environment
outside, and there's a wholefield of grass out there.
And so I would have to do, Iwould have to go out there and
and pick up the broken pieces.But but, yeah, I like I like
that environment. It keeps youon your toes.
T.J. (10:46):
Yeah. I guess it really is a walk of shame because you
could be out there for a goodlong while finding very small
pieces of your broken model.Yep. One other question I
thought of, of course I have alot because this is a new field
to me. When you're collectingdata, do the models in and of
(11:08):
themselves, can they do theycontain sensors and, you know,
measuring tools?
Are they or are they allexternal or both?
Ben (11:21):
Yes. So because we're dealing with tight space in the
wind tunnel, our cross sectionis 6 inches by 7 inches. So our
models have to be, no less widerthan an inch and a half. And
then they can be as long as theycan be, like, a foot long. But
(11:42):
because of that, we cannot put alot of sensors inside.
So, we do rely on opticaldiagnostics, which basically
means that we use cameras andother types of photo detectors
to measure the flow, measure thestructure deformation. But we
(12:03):
can also put what's known asaccelerometers inside the model.
And so accelerometers, theymeasure the acceleration. And
with that, you can get an ideaof the dynamic deformation of
the structure. And you can alsoput strand gauges.
And that can also tell you howmuch strain there is on on the
(12:25):
structure. And so strain is, ameasure of of deformation as
well.
T.J. (12:30):
So What a rewarding field you must be in because you get
to create and then test, andyou're able to see progress
along the way, or failure, andthen make adjustments to be able
to yet try again. I mean, it'slike the the best that the world
(12:52):
has to offer because when youfail, you have additional days,
you know, to, oh, okay, we'lljust make this adjustment.
Because in some areas of life,you're not afforded, you know,
failure. You can really dodamage, let's say, to a
relationship, say somethingawful or terrible, to hurt the
(13:14):
other person. And not that youcan't, you know, seek
forgiveness and provide healing,but it's not it's not quite the
same as a as, a nonhuman model,you know, you know, where you
can just start again.
Ben (13:33):
Yeah. That's true. Especially within aerospace, we
have the mentality of, try tofail as fast as possible and
learn from them. That's why yousee so many SpaceX Starships or
SpaceX Rockets being blown up,and and they can do that because
it actually helps them in thelong run, try to learn fast
(13:56):
because they're trying to, youknow, outcompete the other
companies. That can you'reright.
It can't be applied,specifically to interpersonal
relationships. You know, it's aperson has. A lot of words as as
a human being as a child of God.And and so you can't treat
(14:17):
another person as as if it werea machine you can break down and
and and and build back together.You cannot do that.
T.J. (14:24):
Yeah. You would have no friends. You would have no
relationships. If you got up onemorning, it was like, I'm going
to test this relationship andsee what it takes, stress it to
the point of it failure. You maynot be able to restore that
relationship.
But the field that you're in,Ben, is kind of, is counter to
(14:50):
maybe most people's upbringingswhere it is succeed, succeed,
succeed and avoid failure asmuch as possible because failure
can indicate weakness, failurecan indicate, maybe lack of
smartness. I don't know ifthat's a word, but we'll use it
for this conversation. And butyet, you're in a field that
(15:14):
purposely stresses, throughtheory and through testing,
points of failure to correct it.And that seems it seems like
we've been raised to avoidfailure, and here you are
actually being paid to in a wayto fail. That's not your
(15:38):
ultimate goal, But, yeah, thatseems strange.
Tell me more about that.
Ben (15:44):
Yeah. It is. And I've I've seen you know, I think there has
been a shift over the pastcentury of the mindset in the in
the work working culture.Because now, you know, I'm also
taking business courses atschool of business, at UT
Austin. And within the startupworld, you don't have that same
(16:11):
mentality of you can't fail.
You actually wanna fail in thestartup world. And and something
I've learned is that if youwanna get funding for your own
startup company, from venturecapitalists, the the they are
actually looking for people thathave experience in in the
failure of 1 company of, youknow, starting their own company
because that experience actuallyteaches them a lot. And so they
(16:35):
they're actually more prone tofunding a venture by someone who
has failed in the past and haslearned from their mistakes and
now has a better way of doingthings. So it definitely the
working culture, especiallywithin the technical field, has
changed over the past years.
T.J. (16:57):
Ben, how did you get interested in the field of
engineering and aerospaceengineering and just engineering
mechanics?
Ben (17:09):
Yes. Well, ever since I was a child and I remember being in
Colombia, I moved, we moved tothe US, when I was 6. So I still
have a lot of memories from whenI lived there. And, I can
remember saying from a young agethat I wanted to be an
astronaut. Just looking atpeople floating in space, I
(17:33):
always thought they had somesort of superpower because they
were floating.
And so I was like, okay, I wantto do the same. And then, and
then here in the US I startedwatching the winter Olympics and
you, you know, you have the, thesport where they, the ski jump.
And so they, they jump and theylike seem to fly or glide for a
(17:55):
long time until they land. Andso that also caught my
attention. And and I learnedlater, oh, it's due to the
aerodynamics that the person canactually, you know, jump for
long distances.
And, and so I mixed the 2, and Isaid, yeah. I wanna be an
aerospace engineer. The reason Igot my mechanical engineering
(18:16):
degree from the didn't have anaerospace program. But I knew
that I I was gonna get amaster's and a PhD in aerospace
ultimately. So, mechanical wasthe closest thing.
And, so I stuck it out for 4years in mechanical and later
on, transferred to to UT forthat for aerospace.
T.J. (18:41):
How long have you been in the position that you currently
have?
Ben (18:48):
PhD program?
T.J. (18:49):
Well, just know in terms of, career. Right? Or is your
PhD oh, let me think about myquestion here. So you're a
student, but you also you're astudent, but you also have to
you have bills to pay. So isthat part of your PhD program or
do you you actually have avocation on top of while you're
(19:13):
studying?
Ben (19:14):
Yes. So I have 2 separate, sources of income to help pay,
for everything. So I have I'vebeen blessed to get a national
fellowship, which is called theNSF GRFP fellowship. It's given
to graduate students in all ofthe sciences. And so that gives
(19:38):
me a livable stipend.
And it also pays for tuition andeverything else. And then on the
other end, I also, I'm thepianist of my church, in
Houston. So I actually travelback and forth every weekend
(19:59):
from Austin to Houston, and I amthe pianist in the, morning
worship service. So it's alltraditional, traditional hymns.
I, you know, I sight readclassical music for pre ludes
and post ludes.
I accompany the choir, and thenthe afternoon worship service,
(20:20):
which is the, Spanish worshipservice. That's where I help
direct the music. So, we singmore contemporary songs. And,
and sometimes it's a mix ofSpanish and English, or
sometimes it's just in Spanish.But, so I do that on the
(20:41):
weekends.
And I cannot on the weekends, Ialso see my parents. So that's a
that's a big plus as well. And Ican still be active in the
church. So I do make that Isometimes make the drive from
Austin to Houston, or I justtake the bus, which is way
better because I can just reador study or take a nap.
T.J. (21:01):
How long of a bus ride is it?
Ben (21:04):
It's over 3 hours because it does stop along the way.
Mhmm. Yeah.
T.J. (21:11):
And you've been playing the piano at Houston first since
high school. I've I've heard youplay there before. When did you
get into music? Have you alwaysbeen into music?
Ben (21:25):
Yeah. Well, my dad, he plays the guitar. He's started
teaching me the guitar, andthen, and then I was in middle
school choir, and that's how Istarted being more interested in
playing the piano. And so myparents paid for piano classes.
(21:48):
And I took piano classes all theway through, all the way through
college as well.
And, I've had the position aspianist at my church since, high
school, actually, since 2014.Mhmm. So it's I'm gonna be,
celebrating 10 years, thiscoming October.
T.J. (22:12):
That's amazing. 10 years. My Colombian brothers and
sisters have this knack, thislove for music, which I've
always admired, especially withmusical instruments, which a
talent I do not have. So did youfall did playing the piano come
(22:36):
naturally to you, or was it wasit a difficult practice?
Ben (22:42):
So it kinda did, you know, being inquirer, they taught me
how to sight read and soulfetch.And one of the daily activities
the choir teacher would do is hewould, play 2 notes and then you
would have to say what theinterval was or what the solfege
(23:04):
for it was. And I was reallygood at that. I do not have
perfect pitch, but I do haverelative perfect pitch, which
means that if you play a song,and then you tell me what key it
is in, then I can replicate iton the piano because I already
know what the key is in. And Iand in my head, I, I can think
of notes in both in and in theiractual names, a, b, c, d, e, f,
(23:27):
g.
And that's how it came to me.And so I started playing on the
piano without any instruction atall because of the music theory
that I have from choir. And thenafter getting lessons, I saw
that music is much moremathematical. Basic basically,
(23:47):
music is math. And, I was reallygood at math too.
And so, it just came to me that,yeah, it you know, music is very
enjoyable.
T.J. (24:01):
Mhmm. Do you enjoy playing music more or hearing others
sing and play an instrument?
Ben (24:16):
I like both playing music for me, especially because I
have a keyboard here at in myapartment. You know, when I'm
stressed, that helps me destress. And also helps me be
creative as well. So I composemusic as well. I I've written
songs.
I've written Christian songs.I've also composed classically.
(24:41):
I I love to one of my rolemodels in composition has been,
Rachmaninoff, Chopin, and Bach.Those are the main 3. And so a
lot of my compositions have aweird blend of the 3.
And it's interesting becauseBock is from the Baroque area.
Chopin is from the romantic eraand Rahman and office from the
(25:03):
post romantic era when he diedin 1943. So I've, I've I've
enjoyed doing all of them, youknow, listening to other people,
playing by myself, andcomposing. So yes.
T.J. (25:19):
Ben, you grew up in a Christian household, and both
your mother and your father areministers in the Cumberland
Presbyterian Church. Growing up,what was that environment like?
Did you have theologicalconversations even as a young
(25:40):
child? Did you hear theologicalconversations? Did you jump
right in with your mother andyour father and share your own
perspective?
Was it received? I've loaded youdown with questions there, but
kind of walk me through, thehousehold that you grew up in
(26:01):
and how faith interacted in inall aspects of the family life?
Ben (26:09):
Absolutely. So, my parents, were in the seminary. I think
they were they already had theirmasters, and they started
teaching in the seminary inMedellin, Colombia. And I was
born. So ever since I was born,I was in that theological
(26:30):
environment.
I've been going, I was going totheir classes, where they
taught, Hebrew, Greek, and, andso and also being in the car
rides, just being in the backseat, listening to their
theological discussions as well.And I just well, I always joke
(26:51):
about this and I say that, youknow, one of my, one of the
basic theological questions thathas always been on my mind and
it, my dad asked this questionto me once is, you know, if a
mosquito did Jesus while he was,you know, back 2000 years ago,
did that mosquito, you know, getany special powers or any, did
(27:16):
that mosquito, you know, getblessed from his, you know,
divine blood. Questions, youknow, as as trivial as that,
but, you know, it makes youthink.
T.J. (27:27):
It does. Yeah. He's never posed that one to me. I'll try
to be prepared with an answer ifhe ever does.
Ben (27:38):
But yes. And then they they were ministers of several
churches in Medellin. And so, Iwent with them wherever they
went. So there were 4 churches,I believe that they ministered
in Medellin. The one of themwas, this La Centrada, which is
(28:01):
the church in in the heart ofMedellin.
The other one was in El Salado,which, was in a poor community
of Medellin back then. Mhmm. I'mnot sure how much it has changed
because I haven't been backthere in years. The other one
was. Is another neighborhood.
(28:23):
And I can't remember the 4thone. But, yeah. So, basically,
all week long, they've, I I wasin the car with them going to
these different services andactivities. And interestingly,
for my first birthday and wehave video record of this. I
(28:47):
spent the whole week eating cakeat different churches.
And so I was, you can see theprogression as the week went by.
I just I just got tired andtired of, you know, the same
thing and for my first birthday.
T.J. (29:04):
That's right. You were involved in so many faith
communities that well,especially as a small child,
that could be advantageousbecause you had multiple
birthday parties.
Ben (29:18):
That's true.
T.J. (29:20):
So you said around, 6 years old, you and your parents
or maybe it would be yourparents and you moved to the
United States. What is some fondmemories that you have in that
transition, in that culturalchange, in that shift, as a 6
(29:41):
year old, but also growing upand and continuing your
schooling in the United States?
Ben (29:51):
Yeah. So coming here, the only word I knew how to say was
yes. So I ended up, playingrandom sports with a lot of
different kids because the onlything I could say was, yes. Do
you know how to play? Yeah.
Yeah. So that's a that's a goodway for me to socialize coming
here. But, yeah, learningEnglish as a child was not that
(30:17):
difficult. Well, it is at thebeginning, but, I'd say it only
takes about a year or even lessthan that. I started getting,
thirties in my reading exams, atthe beginning of 2nd grade.
And with the help of my mom, wegot those grades up to 80, after
(30:42):
I'd say, 3 months, 4 months. Andthen after that, I would get
nineties and above in my readingassignments. So it was hard at
first. And, I remember for oneof the exams, you know, the very
first exam where you have openended questions, because I
didn't know what was going on. Ijust simply copy and paste it
(31:06):
from from the book, like,certain passages.
T.J. (31:08):
Mhmm.
Ben (31:09):
And and, you know, it's that's that's the that's the
best I could have done. But, butthen it progressed well over
over time.
T.J. (31:20):
Just because we grow up in Christian households doesn't
necessarily mean that we aredisciples of Jesus Christ. Ben,
can you remember a point of timewhere your faith was beginning
(31:40):
to separate away from yourmother and your father, and you
were having your ownrelationship with God?
Ben (31:49):
Absolutely. Well, I'd say it, and I think a lot of young
adults, go through this. That'swhen they they leave the house.
You know, it could be forcollege or could be for work.
That's that's when, you know,your faith is gonna be tested a
lot.
(32:11):
And so
T.J. (32:12):
Ben, whatever do you mean?
Ben (32:18):
Yeah. Yeah. It's just just, you know, because you have to
handle a lot a lot of things byyourself, a lot of
responsibilities Mhmm. And alsonavigating, friendships. And a
lot of people, I would say,especially if you don't have a
(32:39):
church community to go towherever you're going, those
friendships may not beChristian, friendships.
T.J. (32:48):
Mhmm.
Ben (32:48):
And so, that's when you really have to hold on to your
faith and and be be a shininglight for everybody else.
T.J. (32:59):
And you didn't really leave your core faith community
because you you've beenreturning back to Houston every
Sunday through college and nowpost college, all through your
your higher academic career. Soeven if and please correct me if
(33:20):
I'm wrong, you your core group,your accountability group, the
people who love you and you lovethem, you were still seeing them
on a a regular basis, if not aweekly basis.
Ben (33:36):
Yes. That's right. And even recently, I've also, during the
week, been going to bible study,in a group of young
professionals, here in Austinthat is not Presbyterian or
coming from Presbyterianrelated. It's from a
nondenominational church. But, Iknow most of the people there
(33:59):
because, they're also PhDstudents.
And so we get together and ourBible studies are. Are really
densely packed because we knowhow to analyze things. And we
also have, law students in ourgroup as well. So they they take
an interesting approach toreading the Bible from a from a
law policy perspective.
T.J. (34:20):
Okay. That's interesting. Let me ask you some questions
then. Can we, from yourperspective, look at the
scriptures and and look at ourfaith practices and pick them,
deconstruct them down to a pointthat there is not much left,
(34:42):
where maybe the mystery, thefaith, the the love gets to a
place where it can no longereven be it can no longer be
articulated nor experienced.
Ben (35:02):
That is a very interesting point of view because, you know,
science, engineering, it's allabout being able to understand
and articulate what you'relearning
T.J. (35:14):
Mhmm.
Ben (35:15):
And what you're discovering. Now there could now
in the, on the spiritual side ofthings, you know, how they say
the spirit works in mysteriousways. And they're they're re
really there is truth in itbecause there might be some
instances of our faith that justcan't be calculated or can't be
(35:37):
explained a lot. And so I doagree that there is an aspect to
it where it's very much, it'svery much spiritual and non non
graspable. I'm trying to findwords here, but yeah.
T.J. (36:01):
Yeah. I believe that, the extreme approaches to faith and
study in the scriptures. 1,where everything is accepted
just totally blindly without anyquestions, without any doubt is
not healthy and does not leadto, you know, a good solid life
(36:22):
of discipleship. And then on theother extreme where everything
is approached as a problem to besolved or revealed, removes
elements of the unknown in themystery or were bent on such a
(36:43):
path to where I'm not able toaccept this until a solution
reveals itself. Mhmm.
Ben (36:50):
And I
T.J. (36:50):
think those two extremes end up missing the point of
being a follower of God whereyou're comfortable with the
unknown, but not ignorant of theunknown. And I think there's
some sort of delicate balancethere in our journeys of and I
(37:12):
think it's pretty cool to have aGod that's big enough and strong
enough that allows us to kind oflive in all those different
realms to be able to askquestions and even deconstruct,
but also have the ability ofjust I want my faith to be
(37:34):
simple and I don't want to seethe underbellies of, you know,
theological ideas and concepts,and and I just want to believe,
and I just want to love. And I Ithink both of those have merit.
Both of them can also lead toplaces that make it difficult to
(37:54):
return.
Ben (37:56):
That's true. Yeah. And you can see it in the way some
preachers, approach theirtheology behind the sermon that
they're giving on a particularSunday. You know, I know from
from just listening to other,pastors, depending on how newly
(38:20):
graduated they are fromseminary. If they're re just
straight out of seminary, theirsermons are gonna be more, more
based on the or the theory andthe the the the technical terms
that they've used.
And, but if you see moreexperienced pastors, you know,
(38:41):
they they will make it morerelatable to current life
events. And, there's I I totallyagree that you can't have one
extreme or the other. You doneed a a blend of both. You need
a you need to know what you'rewhat you've been studying. You
(39:04):
need to know what other howother people have approached the
bible, how non Christians haveapproached the bible as well.
There's been philosophers,throughout the centuries that
have also, taken a, a look intotheology as well. And studying
(39:25):
all of that and then, you know,coming up with a a way to of
having that help you communicatewhat God wants you to
communicate. And and that's thethe gospel of of Jesus Christ.
So I I totally agree. You can'thave both, either extremes.
(39:47):
You have to have, a mixture ofboth.
T.J. (39:50):
We were talking off mic, about the differences and the
commonalities between havingfaith in Jesus Christ, and even
maybe broadly speaking, faith inother religions. But we'll we'll
talk about the faith that weknow the best and how, science,
(40:13):
and in terms of the theoreticalaspects that there may be some
commonalities that faithaddresses the unknown, things
that maybe are unsolvable, andbut there's also elements to
engineering and where thetheories also you're you're
(40:38):
doing work based upon theory andhopes that it could become fact.
I'm sort of meandering here,Ben. So sort of help me out in
terms of how can a person offaith also be in engineering
where mathematics, computationare high priorities?
Ben (41:02):
Mhmm. Absolutely. Just just the basic fact that we, as
humans, have the ability todiscover things in our universe
and have the ability to put intowords put into mathematical
formulas the the laws of physicsand being able to explain a lot
(41:27):
of things, and and and yet wehave not been able to explain a
lot of other things. Just beingable to have that capability, is
just evidence enough for peopleto know that there is a god that
created this universe and thatwe are fortunate enough to be
(41:49):
conscious of the fact that welive we live in God's creation.
And so in a way, studying moreabout the world around you is a
way to get closer to God.
And I believe that every time Imake a new discovery from the
experiments that I make, that noone else has done because that's
(42:12):
what a PhD is about is trying tomove the circle of knowledge
just a little bit wider everytime. Just being able to do that
is is very rewarding because Ialways, you know, tell God, you
know, I I'm always grateful forbeing able to be the first
(42:34):
person to discover that. And ittruly is a gift that God can
give to any scientist or anyengineer. It's being able to
say, Hey, I have all these hintsfor you now. It's I gave you a
mind, a mind of your own, Goahead and use it and and figure
(42:56):
out those hints.
And and looking at the biggerscheme of things, you know, this
past week, we had the eclipsehere in Austin. It was super
cool. And it made me think abouthow coincidental the fact that
we have one moon, not 2 moons or3 moons. We just have 1 moon.
(43:20):
And that's at the perfectdistance to have a total
eclipse, just at the perfectdistance where it could cover
all of the sun.
And at the same time, know that,you know, from the Apollo years,
you know, just that one moonallowed us to have so many
advancements in technology. Andthis one moon is, in these
(43:45):
coming years with the Artemismissions in NASA is going to
help us learn a lot before goingto Mars. And so it's like I
relate it to, we are in anisland and then there's just
this little island here that ifwe can hop onto that one and
learn from there, then we canhop onto others. And so, it's I
(44:05):
I think that, you know, thewhole solar system got created
was made intentional in thatway, leaving leaving hints here
and there for us to figure out.And then along the way, we we we
we acknowledge, hey, you know,God, that was really that was
really smart of you to do thatbecause it, you know, it was
(44:28):
challenging, but, you know, atat at the end, we got there.
So it's it's all about the thepath of getting closer to god
T.J. (44:35):
Mhmm.
Ben (44:36):
Within science and engineering.
T.J. (44:39):
A part of that is from your approach. You then you're
bringing god into the equationsand the experiments. And so with
each discovery or affirmation islike another layer of revelation
(45:00):
of god. But what about some ofyour colleagues, coworkers,
fellow students who may not bebringing that perspective into
their study, into thosediscoveries. What are those
interactions like with yourfriends, your colleagues, and
(45:20):
and fellow students, because noteverybody is a person of faith
and then not everybody is of theChristian faith.
Ben (45:32):
Well, I would say that even those that are not of the
Christian faith and are inacademia, they must have a faith
of some kind because they aredealing with the unknown. Mhmm.
And so, it is much easier toapproach my my academic
(45:56):
colleagues that are notChristians and be able to talk
in Christian terms with thembecause they understand what
faith is within their workplace.Now they they don't apply it to
the faith in Jesus Christ or thefaith in in the in God's eternal
promise for us. But they do knowwhat faith is.
(46:18):
So it is a very interesting,environment to be in, and to be
able to share the the gospelwith them.
T.J. (46:27):
I enjoy having those conversations. I think some of
my favorite theologicalconversations that I've had over
the years are those who are notfaith connected, because there's
a perspective there. Andsometimes it's right, sometimes
it's not right of it's typicallyon organized religion and not
(46:50):
necessarily a belief system inin who Jesus is and and what he
means for a disciple. But I'vejust found those the most
fascinating, the most rewarding,because I I end up learning
something about myself or aboutthe world or about God or that
(47:14):
other person or all of thosecombined, and they typically
have become bonding experiencesthat have led to additional
conversations. As opposed tomaybe theological conversations
with other Christians, it's veryeasy to fall into the temptation
of, I'm gonna spend this timetrying to convince Ben to
(47:37):
believe like TJ instead of anactual just a good solid
conversation or, debate, justfor terms of growth and instead
of instead of convincing youthat I'm right and you're wrong.
At least that's been my lifeexperience and not across the
(48:01):
board. I'm obviously, I'mspeaking generally, but, those
have been my experiences.
Ben (48:08):
Yes. So, recently, along the same lines, just having
academic discussions with mycolleagues, we do that every
day. But but it is a way for meto introduce them to the church.
And one of the ways I do that isrecently I did a music recital.
(48:33):
And this music recital, it ismade, almost every year, to help
raise funds for a scholarship wehave at our church that helps,
unrepresented students go tocollege.
So we have a scholarship fundand every recital we raise funds
for that. And so this February,this was the first time we did
(48:56):
the recital in Austin. And Iinvited our church music church
musicians to come with me, andwe played at the chapel at
Austin Theological SeminaryPresbyterian Theological
Seminary. And because it's rightacross the street from the
aerospace building, I was ableto put up a lot of flyers around
(49:20):
campus and especially inaerospace saying, hey, I'm going
to have this music recital. Andthe theme of the recital was,
impressionism in, art andscience.
T.J. (49:32):
Nice.
Ben (49:33):
And so impressionism in art, you know, is after the
romantic era, romanticism. And,it's in the late 1800, early
1900 as well. And so one of themost famous artists are Van Gogh
and Monet. And so the theme forit, being impressionism in art
(49:57):
and science. So theimpressionism in science comes
from the advances in fluiddynamics of the era.
So at the same time in the late1800s, there was a lot of
scientists studying thevortices, and water flow and
turbulence and, laminar flow andall of these, cool things you
(50:20):
see, in any type of flow, itcould be an air or water. And
they derive the governingequations that, define how the
flow should behave. And so oneof the questions I wanted to ask
was, well, we have impressionismin music and art, and we also
have these advances in scienceat the same time in the late
(50:41):
1800s. So, the question to askis, did the art influence the
science or did the scienceinfluence the art? And so that
was a good way for me to be ableto, invite a lot of my friends
that are not are not Christian,and come to a chapel, an old
chapel.
(51:01):
And then during the recital, oneof the pieces, was had a
Christian theme. And so I talkeda lot about, how that piece tied
in with the whole framework ofthings. And, I also showed
simulations from, from the samefriends that came to watch. I
(51:21):
showed the simulations of theirfluid flow, and I played music
while the simulations wererunning in the background. So it
was a very good way to introducemy non Christian colleagues to,
a church environment.
T.J. (51:35):
Nice. Nice, Ben. Is it possible to be able to see this
program? Is it available?
Ben (51:44):
It is. Yes. There's a YouTube link that shows the
highlights or a summary of it.
T.J. (51:51):
Okay. Alright. Alright. I I'd like to see that. That's
fascinating.
Ben, you have been part of theCumberland Presbyterian Church
since day 1 for you. And Yes.You've you've grown up in this
denomination. You've experiencedthis denomination in multiple
(52:15):
countries. You've been active inthe youth evangelism conferences
and CPYC, and many otheractivities in your growing up
years.
So as someone who has beenheavily influenced and heavily
nurtured by this denomination,I'm very interested to hear from
(52:38):
your perspective, what are someof the greatest assets and gifts
this denomination has to offerto the world?
Ben (52:53):
It reminds me of general assembly back in 2014. It's was
it 2014 or 2013? Can't remember.But the one of the sermons was
what's wrong with the middle.And, and, and so I I'd like to
(53:13):
reiterate that.
And we as come from thePresbyterian have no qualms
about being in the middle Andour theology is reflected on
that. We are a church that likesto be on the frontier since day
1 back in 18/10. And I believewe can still be the church that
(53:36):
is on the frontier. I alwaysjoke about, you know, maybe we
should send a commonPresbyterian pastor to space to
give the 1st sermon from space.That way, we are still the
church of the frontier.
T.J. (53:54):
Ben, I'll begin my physical training and mental
training now. I may have agedout of that program. Let's talk
about, from your perspective aswell, the areas, for improvement
as a denomination, as a smallerfamily church, I would say, in
(54:19):
the scheme of things. Where dowe have room where we can grow
and extend our reach andcontinue to love on people?
Ben (54:36):
There are so many areas we could grow, and it depends on
the community you're in. So ifyour church is right smack in
the middle of the city, youknow, there are areas to grow in
an urban setting. If your churchis in a suburban setting, there
are areas to grow there. If it'sclose to a university campus,
(54:58):
lots of areas to grow there. Ifit's in a multicultural
community, you could also growthere, and and have services
where it's in differentlanguages.
But also outside from church,you could grow, because the
(55:22):
church is not just the building.It's also going to your
workplace. And so something I'velearned from going to business
classes is network, network,network. So get out there, try
to meet as many people as youcan each day. Have a tally on
(55:42):
your whiteboard or something.
Say I met these 2 people. Great.They're in my, network, web.
Just just we could grow in in inthat area. Then there's
certainly different areas.
So yeah.
T.J. (56:02):
Our context matters of where we are and who we are when
it comes to practicing ourbeliefs and then being
intentional in sharing the goodnews, whether it's a new
acquaintance, a stranger, familymember, coworker, fellow
(56:24):
student. I'm just rewording whatyou've brilliantly already said.
Ben (56:33):
Yes. I mean and the and you can see it in our whole
denomination. There's we haveeverything from churches and,
small rural communities to bigchurches and big cities. Mhmm.
And and we're still onedenomination, so that's what I
like.
T.J. (56:53):
Yeah. Denomination was various cultures and various
languages, and, we still havecommonalities and I would say
the core to that is howimportant and how outstanding
the good news really is. And itneeds to be shared even on the
(57:14):
edges of the frontier, whetherthat's literal or metaphorical.
Ben (57:18):
That's right.
T.J. (57:19):
Yeah. Well, I know that you are so busy in reading books
pertaining to the program thatyou're in, but are there any
books that, you recommend thathave helped you along in your
faith or even to the point thatit just kind of gave you a good
(57:43):
laugh. I think religion becomesdangerous when it loses its
sense of humor.
Ben (57:50):
That's true. And Jesus had a lot of sense of humor.
T.J. (57:55):
Well well, look look at his followers even up to today.
You have to have a sense ofhumor if you're gonna put up
with humanity.
Ben (58:04):
That's right. So one of the books, I really like is the
truth about God by, will woman.And it's about the 10
commandments. And so it's placedin the 10 commandments, which
were written 1000 of years ago.But how they are relevant in our
(58:26):
everyday life.
That's one. And I wouldrecommend it to any young
professional, young adult, anyperson who's going to college
for the first time, this bookwill help you a lot
T.J. (58:42):
Alright.
Ben (58:43):
In your faith. So that's that's one. The other one is and
that's and this one's more onthe academic side. Every valley.
So it's this book right here.
Every Valley is a, like adevotional type book, meant for
(59:05):
the season right beforeChristmas. And it's it's taken
from Messiah. And for everysingle piece within the,
Handel's Messiah, it analyzesthe the scripture that Handel
(59:29):
used to help compose that piecefor the church. Nice. And so I
like it.
It if you have a classical musicupbringing, you would be able to
mix, you know, what the book issaying and what you know about
music theory and classical musicand how that all goes together
(59:51):
with, the theology behindHandel's Messiah.
T.J. (59:54):
Alright. Who is the publisher for Every Valley?
Ben (59:59):
Every Valley that is
T.J. (01:00:00):
Or the individual that compiled it?
Ben (01:00:05):
Okay. Question. Jessica Miller Kelly.
T.J. (01:00:09):
Okay. Thank you. Ben, thank you so much for giving me
your Monday for this recording.
Ben (01:00:22):
Absolutely. I
T.J. (01:00:23):
I have enjoyed getting to know you a little bit better.
And I hope I have honored you asBen and not through the eyes of
your parents. Try not to bringthem up too much for you.
Ben (01:00:37):
No. Well, being a p k p k squared. I'm sure there's other
p k squareds, listening to this,but they they know what what
you're talking about.
T.J. (01:00:47):
Absolutely. And and your mom and your dad have both been
previous guests on CumberlandRoad, so it's been a joy to be
able to, hear of your faithjourney, which is connected to
theirs. And you Yes. And and youand they are connected to yours
(01:01:08):
as well.
Ben (01:01:09):
Yes. Yeah. We we it's interesting. We still, we still
serve in the same church as afamily, all 3 of us.
T.J. (01:01:24):
For 10 years.
Ben (01:01:25):
That's right. Yeah. 10 years.
T.J. (01:01:29):
Ben, thank you for being a guest, today. I really
appreciated what you had to say,and you've made me feel smarter.
You made me feel like I knowmore today than when I first got
up.
Ben (01:01:40):
Thank you. Yeah. That's that's like goal of mine, be a
future professor as well. So
T.J. (01:01:45):
Alright.
Ben (01:01:46):
It's a good thing that I'm having other people learn
something new every day.
T.J. (01:01:51):
Thank you for listening to this episode of Cumberland Road.
If you enjoyed my conversationwith Ben, please check out the
other wonderful guests who havegone before him in sharing their
faith. In closing is a quotefrom William Willemon, one of
Ben's writers that he referencedearlier. The bible requires
(01:02:15):
being read constantly andregularly, all of it, to modern
readers accustomed bible cancome across to us as a mess. To
be sure, one encountersinconsistencies and
(01:02:36):
contradictions, to say nothingof downright bad ideas in the
bible. Scripture has a marvelousway of arguing with itself,
correcting itself, one witnessgiving counter testimony to
another. Scripture is a recordof people's determination to
hear god truthfully and then tofollow god faithfully.
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