Blake Stephens - A Long Arduous Journey - Cumberland Road

Episode Transcript
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T.J. (00:02):
You are listening to the Cumberland Road podcast, where I
explore faith journeys with myguest. I'm your host, TJ
Malinoski. And this time, I'm inconversation with Blake
Stephens. Blake is a CumberlandPresbyterian minister in
Franklin County, Tennessee. He'san outdoorsman and volunteers

(00:27):
for the local search and rescueorganization. This conversation
has been 3 years in the making.When I first approached Blake,
he was diagnosed with a rareform of cancer. We spend some
time talking about hisdiagnosis, treatment, and
recovery. Blake also shares howhe has moved from being a

(00:51):
nominal Christian to becoming anordained minister. Enjoy this
conversation with Blake Stevens.
Blake, about 3 years ago, Ireached out to see if you'd be
willing to be a guest onCumberland Road. And unknown to

(01:15):
me, there were things going onin your personal life. And I
thought, well, maybe we couldstart there. What was going on
in your life 3 years ago?

Blake (01:29):
Yeah. So about the time you, reached out to me, I had a,
an incident where let me tellthe whole story. So this is my
wife is an airline pilot. Mywife came home 1 afternoon or
one evening. Actually, it waslate.
She'd been up for about 36 hourswhen she got home and sat down

(01:52):
in the floor to kind of stretchher legs a little bit and and
whatnot. And I, I kind ofcrawled down the floor, laid my
head in her lap, and she justpatted me, on my chest. And she
said, Blake, what is that? And Isaid, what's what? And she had

(02:12):
found a lump on my left side,right right over you know, kinda
under my pectoral muscle.
And, she said, you need to callthe doctor that. And I'm not
really good about going to thedoctor, but I, took her advice
to heart, because of the tone inher voice. And so the next

(02:34):
morning I called the doctor and,the nurse said, well, it'll
probably be about 3 monthsbefore I can before you can get
in. And I said, okay. Great.
3 months, and I don't have toworry about this anymore. I'll
just go and say, okay. I'm gonnago to the doctor in 3 months.
Well, that very afternoon about3 o'clock, I'm sitting in the
pickup line to pick up myyoungest son, Lucas, from

(02:55):
school. And the nurse calls andsays, hey.
The doctor says he wants to seeyou. So, apparently, the doctor
heard that I had called andsaid, oh, wait. Blake Stevens
does not call me about anything.So, I'm going to, go on and have
him come in. So he came in.
He pokes around on my chest alittle bit, and he says, I don't

(03:19):
know what that is. And I said,oh, great. I love to hear that
from the doctor. Right? Youalways love to hear that.
So I went and had a bunch oftests. And that night, he says,
we believe he calls me, and hesays, we believe you have a
pretty rare type of cancer. Theguy, he says, I've never seen

(03:39):
this. The guy that did theultrasound has only seen it one
time in his whole career. Sowe're gonna set you up for some
appointments at Vanderbilt.
So I said, okay. And I said,kinda, what does this mean? You
know, asking my doctor becausehe's been my kid's doctor. We've
known him forever. And he says,well, it's, not good.

(04:05):
If it's what we think it is,it's not very good. We're just
gonna have to pray. My doctorsays that, and it's like, well,
I'm good at that. I I I I'mconnected that way, so I can do
that. So appointments go along,go to Vanderbilt, and, the the

(04:25):
the diagnosis is this is someform of a chondrosarcoma.
And Vanderbilt is thechondrosarcoma center for the
southeast. So I go up there, andthe doctor says we don't think
it's chondrosarcoma. Okay.Great. He says we think you've
had that all your life.
I said okay. Well, I'm not sureabout that. Because I I you

(04:46):
know, I'm like, I'm pretty awareself aware, but he says, we're
gonna check check back with youin 6 months. So I said, okay. So
came back.
Okay. Cancer scare done. It'snot what it is. Right? 6 months,
I go back.
It's doubled in size. Mhmm. Hepokes at it. He pokes around on

(05:07):
it. And, he says, well, let'scheck back in 6 more months.
And I'm like, oh, okay. Alright.So I leave. At some point,
Vanderbilt has this app whereyou can get in and you can read
the doctor's notes. And I I readon there that he palpated it,
and, it was not any pain.

(05:27):
And I'm like, oh, that's nottrue because it hurt like the
dickens. I just didn't act likeit hurt because, you know, I'm a
I'm a dumb guy. Right? I got apretty high pain tolerance. I've
done martial arts most of mylife.
And, you know, I've had stuffhappen where my eyes shut off

(05:47):
for 30, 40 seconds. You know,pain shuts your eyes off
sometimes. And so Wow. I've hadthat. It didn't shut my eyes
off.
So I'm like, well, that's nottoo bad. You know? Mhmm. So the
next time, the next 6 monthsgoes around, I go back to see
him, and he's poking at itagain. I said, now I read your
notes.

(06:07):
I wanna tell you. It hurts. Ijust don't act like it hurts. I
said, oh, okay. And he says, yougo on home.
He says, it's it's we're we'regonna come back in 6 more
months. I said, okay. I'm notleaving. Thank you. That was on
a Friday.
Well, that sat that nextSaturday morning, he calls me.

(06:30):
And, he says, mister Stevens, Istill don't think this is
cancer, but I would like to getit off of there. I said, I'm
100% on board with that notion.Let's go in there and cut this
joker out of there. Mhmm.
So he schedules surgery for me.I go in for surgery. And, I wake

(06:52):
up after surgery, and, I feelokay. And Leslie comes in. My
wife comes in, and and she says,have you talked to the doctor
yet?
I said, no. I haven't. And shesaid, well, Blake, it is cancer.
And the minute they touched it,it kinda fell apart, and it's
gonna take a much bigger surgeryto do this than than what they

(07:17):
could do then. So they justsewed you back up and sent you
back out here.
So then I began the long andarduous journey of trying to
prepare for this surgery, and weran into all kinds of issues.
The biopsy they did on it showeda couple of different

(07:40):
possibilities of the type ofcancer that it could be. If it
was 1, they wanted to do 3rounds of, the red devil chemo,
then do surgery, and then do 3more rounds after that. If it
was the other kind that Ithought it was, the diagnosis

(08:02):
was we're gonna cut it out. AndI don't recommend you do too
much, googling when you've gotcancer, because when I googled
all of that stuff, 90% of thepeople who have the kind of
cancer that they that this couldpossibly have been, They die in

(08:24):
6 months after surgery.
Oh. So that was that. So I'mlike, okay. So surgery gets it
out of there, but, you know,there's this high likelihood of
death after that. So needless tosay, I did a whole lot of
praying, and I did a lot ofthings.
And I could probably talk for 2hours about all that god did in

(08:48):
the midst of my prayer life andin my time. Leslie will tell you
there were nights that I was notawake, but I was talking, but I
wasn't you know, she couldn'tunderstand what it was I was
saying. Mhmm. And so comes timefor surgery. Surgery is gonna be

(09:15):
on a Thursday.
Leslie comes home from work onWednesday. No. She came home
from work on Monday, and she'snot feeling very well. And she
and I both have to go have theCOVID test before you can go in
the hospital. You gotta showthat you're not you're COVID

(09:36):
negative, all that kind ofstuff.
Well, we get the results onWednesday, and she's positive.
Mhmm. So I'm gonna have to gointo the surgery all by myself.
Problem is about noon onWednesday, I start running a
fever. So I have COVID as well,And we went through the whole

(09:56):
thing with the doctors of well,you have this negative test.
We could probably go on and dothe surgery. But you do actively
have COVID, so that might not bethe best thing. They decide,
okay. We're gonna have to wait 2weeks. So 2 more weeks of those
nights of not really sleeping,but not really being awake, and

(10:20):
praying and worrying and allthat kind of stuff because they
still have not determined whichof these two kinds of cancer it
is.
They've just decided we're gonnago in and cut it out. So
finally, the 2 weeks is over. Igo in for surgery. They cut out
4 of my ribs and my chest.

T.J. (10:40):
Mhmm.

Blake (10:41):
They took out 2 thirds of my pectoral muscle and, put in a
concrete pad. Actually, I getout I get out of surgery. Yeah.
It's a lot. It's a it's an it'san interesting, interesting
thing to have this concrete padin your chest now.
But, get out of surgery, allthose kinds of things. And then

(11:04):
finally, they, by having it allcut out, they find that it is
still a chondrosarcoma, but itis not the kind that they
thought it was. It's still anextremely rare form. In fact,
the the kind that I had, thereare only, like, 40 cases known
in medical history in an adult.Some there's more in kids, but

(11:28):
for an adult to have it to showup like like I did, it's it's,
extremely rare.
So they study me, and I do theydo tests and DNA and all that
kind of stuff just to try tofigure out if, you know, how to
predict any of this. The goodthing about the kind that I have
is that it, once removed, youhave a much, much higher success

(11:51):
rate of I mean, it's been 2years past that surgery, so I've
outlived that 6 months. So, I dotell everybody I still kinda
live 6 months at a time becauseI go back for my checkups every
6 months and do all the testsand stuff. And I do pretty good
for about 5 of those months, 5and a half of those months.
Those last couple of weeks, youget in that headspace sometimes,

(12:15):
and you get to, you you re I getto revisit that thought of what
the c word does to our brain,what the what cancer does to us.
But, it's been a it's been afascinating journey for me
spiritually. It's been fast it'sbeen really good for my church.

(12:38):
I saw my church post COVID or inthe midst of COVID there, figure
out how to rally around somebodyto see what prayer did, to
understand, to to witness what Ibelieve is a miracle because I
think and you can dispute me orwhatever. Anybody can that they

(13:01):
want to. But I believe firmlythat all of that time and all of
that space between the diagnosisand the surgery, God was
probably I believe God waschanging the type of cancer that
it was.
From what they could not figureout to a kind that, I am

(13:27):
successful in outliving.

T.J. (13:34):
So you are missing 3 ribs? 4 ribs and you have a concrete
chest on one side.

Blake (13:44):
On one side, Which means I can only sleep on in about 2
positions. It's heavy enoughthat if I lay flat, I can't
really breathe. It kindacollapses that lung just a
little bit. I can't breathewell. So, my my wife gives me a
hard time.
She says when she was pregnant,she wanted an adjustable bed,
but we didn't get one. But assoon as I couldn't breathe

(14:07):
laying down, we got anadjustable bed. So that's fair.
We did. So I can sit up or I canlay on one side.
I can lay on my right side. Ican kinda

T.J. (14:21):
Any other physical limitations?

Blake (14:26):
Well, not having not having 2 thirds of your pectoral
muscle kinda affects your benchpress. Some of those things,
there are some positions that Iget in that I'm like oh yeah I
don't have any strength there.There absolutely there are some
things you don't realize howmuch you use your pectoral

(14:46):
muscle till you don't have one.So yeah. Yeah.
There's some physicallimitations. But not anything
that, you know, I still doeverything that I've always done
to to some degree or anotherthat I have to just I have
learned to make adjustments.

T.J. (15:04):
Mhmm. So in this timeline, where did I reach out to you
about being a guest onCumberland Road?

Blake (15:14):
Literally right before I got that first diagnosis.

T.J. (15:18):
Okay.

Blake (15:18):
With right that 3 year point, 3 three and a half years
ago, right in there. Right.Right about the time, first went
to the doctor and we found that.And I'll be honest. I I love to
I I I wanted to be the guy whowas believing the doctor, but I
knew I knew something was upthat whole time.

(15:40):
I I my prayers never stopped. Inever, I I just kept going. What
the doctor says? The doctorsays? But I I knew I knew deep
down that, something was wrong.
And, you know, there wereprobably opportunities that I
could have gone to see somebodyelse or and those kinds of

(16:01):
things, but I was going I don'tthink you know, everybody else
can send me to Vanderbiltbecause they're the people. I
mean, there was a there's anentire board. When I when I
finally when they finally foundthe cancer, I mean, my wife was
livid. We sat we went to to meetseveral different doctors, and
she's like, so did you sit onthe board that for a year said

(16:23):
this wasn't cancer? There was nostopping her.
You know, she and yes, ma'am. Idid. Mhmm. And we were wrong,
you know, and and those kinds ofthings. And and in a very
healthy fashion, in my opinion,you say, yes.
We were wrong. Now this is whatwe're gonna do. And that's the

(16:44):
way we moved and that's the waywe functioned. And I was good at
that. Cause I don't like livingin the past.
I would rather just go, okay,what are we going to do now?
Mhmm. Let's do it right. Let'slet's attack this thing.

T.J. (16:58):
Let's talk about your, head space and how that impacted
your faith, because you'reyou're kinda in this roller
coaster. And I'm I'm gonna,like, interject myself into this
so you you can push me out. ButI think, oh, okay. Doctor says
it's no big deal, then it's nobig deal. And I wouldn't think

(17:20):
that much about it, you know.
I don't even but then I imagineit would be kind of like that
little just a little voice, thatlittle something in the back of
the head of like, well what if?What if it is real? And or what
if it is cancer? Or what if Idie? And I I can see me wasting

(17:41):
energy of trying to silence thatlittle voice, that little
thought.
And I would I think I would findthat distracting. I don't think
I could completely push that outuntil I'm also an impatient
person. Just give me an answer.It is or it isn't so that we
move on to the next step. No nomore of the 6 month thing, you

(18:04):
know.
Yeah. I Instant gratificationwhether it's bad or good news.
Just give it to me and then Ican deal with it. The unknown, I
think, would drive me nuts.

Blake (18:14):
It was a crazy year because, like I said, in my gut,
I kinda knew something. But mybrain was saying, well, the
doctors know. Mhmm. And so theheadspace existed in tension, my
gut knowledge and my headknowledge, and they wrestle each

(18:36):
other all the time. I wasconstantly doing that, and it
didn't help that it wascontinually growing, Then it was
growing as fast as it was.
So I could see it. And if Ilifted my hand above my head,
you could see it too. I couldshow it to you. You know? And
that that this not I mean, whenthey cut it out, it was the size

(18:58):
of a, grapefruit by the timethey got it out.
It's huge.

T.J. (19:01):
Oh, yeah.

Blake (19:02):
Right. And it's sitting on top of a rib. That's where it
was. It was sitting on top of arib attached to one of those 4
ribs. The reason they cut allthe rest of them out is they
don't want anything that it'stouched to still be in
existence.
That's the reason they cut thepectoral muscle out too. Because
the pectoral muscle had sat ontop of it. And so they're like,
we don't want anything that'stouched it to still be in your

(19:23):
body. That's the plan to moveforward and hopefully be cancer
free. So, yeah, the headspacewas kinda crazy.
It I I can only say with from afaith perspective, that I I just

(19:44):
I mean, I I learned through thetime. God was testing my
patience, teaching me patience,bringing me to this place of
trusting and understanding. Andthen as I said before, I believe
he was fully at work Mhmm. Inwhat was going on. Now it all

(20:08):
changed from that first surgeryto the next to a very, very
different headspace.
I didn't I couldn't think aboutanything else. I I I felt god's
presence in every moment.Because COVID had been such a

(20:29):
big part of everything, andVanderbilt was you know, they
had all their rules and alltheir stuff and all those
things. I mean, I quitpreaching. I pulled back.
I stayed at home. Thank you tomy CP brothers and sisters here
in Franklin County who, coveredmy pulpit every single Sunday

(20:50):
for me. It was, that was not athing I had to worry about at
all. It was wonderful, that allof that was covered, and that's
that connectional nature that wehad. I literally called Michael
Clark and said, hey.
I need some help. And he's like,okay. Here, I I got this. And he
scheduled people, and and, then,Gary Tubb had retired and had

(21:15):
moved back here. And Gary tookover.
He he preached a couple ofmonths out here, and, I could
attend a a Facebook. I couldwatch church and and do all
those things. And, the churchhad prayer services and all
those things. And I wassurrounded by all the things you

(21:41):
should be surrounded

T.J. (21:42):
by. Mhmm.

Blake (21:44):
All those people of faith who, helped carry the burden.
And then, you know, so so now,when I came back, things started
to change. The church wasreinvigorated. God did God did

(22:13):
much more than just take care ofme, which is how God works.
Right?
God's this multilevel.Everything works.

T.J. (22:22):
Mhmm.

Blake (22:22):
And we don't see it. And, Yeah. So the face of the church
has changed since then too.We're we're we're different
different people, and, it'spretty awesome. Couple things
were born out of out of thattime.
Out of those prayer services,our women's group began a a,

(22:42):
monthly get together where theycome up with projects because I
was their first project. Takingcare of me was the first project
this women's group had, youknow? And and, then when I got
well, they were like, okay,well, that worked. Let's do
something else, you know. Andand so this new vibrant women's

(23:04):
group came out of all of that.
And I could probably come upwith 2 or 3 other things, but
it's God did a lot in the midstof that, and I am privileged to
bear witness to it.

T.J. (23:23):
Have you always been in the faith community, the
Christian faith community? Or orwas this something that you were
introduced to later in life?

Blake (23:34):
Well, so I have been a lifelong Cumberland
Presbyterian. My family startedgoing to Winchester, CP, before
I was born. But I was probablynot a very good Cumberland
Presbyterian. What do you mean?Those times.

(23:57):
I I I actually didn't reallyenjoy church too much as a young
person. The whole sitting downand being quiet and, you know,
those kinds of things.

T.J. (24:09):
This is coming from a minister.

Blake (24:11):
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely, it is. This might be
why I've this I my my ministrylooks different than some, and
this might be why.

T.J. (24:22):
Well well, looking back Blake, what what was it about
the worship or church life that,you didn't care for too much?

Blake (24:35):
In an attempt not to be offensive, I didn't see a lot of
people who looked like me. Ihave found that not to be true,
and I found that I I I find thatthere are a lot more people that

(24:56):
look like me than I gave themcredit for when I had that view.
But I kind of viewed my I Ikinda thought of myself as kind
of a man's man, kind of a toughguy. And I didn't see that out
of a whole lot of men in thechurch.

T.J. (25:14):
Mhmm. What'd you see?

Blake (25:17):
I saw mild mannered respectable. Nothing wrong with
it. Quiet individuals. I sawthat women did most of the work
in the church. That's the way Isaw it.
Mhmm. Still kinda see it thatway. And I I didn't find that I

(25:42):
fit in, to very much to what wassupposed to be the Christian
male stereotype. Now like Isaid, that's me in it with a
bias, I think, judging a lot ofpeople. I actually find there
are more people that walk andtalk like me than I ever

(26:06):
expected, but I have to be mefor them to bring that out,

T.J. (26:10):
if

Blake (26:10):
you know what I mean. They're comfortable being that
guy around me because I'm thatguy.

T.J. (26:16):
So are we talking about ego, macho, who can lift more
weights, who's the strongestperson in the room. Are we
talking about that type of male?

Blake (26:28):
No. I'm I'm talking about, Are

T.J. (26:36):
we talking about, like, survival skills? Like, I can
start a fire.

Blake (26:40):
That's kinda me. I'm the outdoorsy guy. I'm the guy who
who says, well, of course, youcan make fire with a lighter.
Why don't we learn how to makeit with rubbing 2 sticks
together? That's that's mything.
Right? I can make fire from,hand drills to bow drills to
flint and steel and all thosekinds of things. That was my

(27:01):
thing. Again, you know, I was amartial arts guy, so I kinda
that was kinda part of it. I Ikinda wanted that rough and
tumble, kinda lifestyle.
Didn't see too many people thatlike taking punches at church.
And I did. It didn't bother meany. So that was that was part

(27:24):
of it. Again, the the personathat was probably self
described.
Alright? So I think I I had aview of who I was, and I decided
that, and this would be ego forsure, that, I was a lot tougher

(27:47):
than most of those people, and Iliked hanging out with people
who were tougher than me. Thatwas that's always been my thing.
I wanna be the dumbest guy inthe room. Mhmm.
I wanna hang out with peoplesmarter than me. I wanna hang
out with people tougher than me.I wanna hang out with people
that know more than me so that Ican learn more. That's my
personality.

T.J. (28:09):
So the next

Blake (28:10):
time I see you very well when I went to seminary.

T.J. (28:13):
So the next time I see you and I do a leg sweep, you're not
gonna be offended.

Blake (28:19):
Oh, no. Yeah. Try.

T.J. (28:24):
Well, now that I know your weak spot, I know where I'm
going.

Blake (28:27):
Yeah. Well, it may be weaker. It might break your
hand. I don't know. You know?
I'm yet to test that out. So Ihad a I I had opportunities to
train with a lot of differentpeople. And, one of them was a
Japanese grand master. And, hewas, he could always find your

(28:50):
weak spot. I I watched him doseminars and stuff, and I I saw
him do do something to a guy onetime.
And then he he almost had thislook of oh on his face. Uh-oh.
I've messed up. He he helped theguy up, and he says my power,
and this was his him speaking inJapanese, he says my power
always finds the weak spot. He'she's recently had knee surgery

(29:14):
and his instinct was to go forit.
And he went outside of his mind.Right? And then once he did
something, then he went, oh, no.My instinct took over, and I
might have hurt this guy. Hedidn't hurt the guy.
Mhmm. But he did say, oh, yeah.That was my mistake. I went to
his weakness.

T.J. (29:35):
So your your early thoughts of the church, you
looked around and you didn't seea lot of people that were like
you. And that was a turn off.

Blake (29:48):
Yeah. Yeah. It was. I oh, I'm I'm gonna tell all kinds of
stuff here. So one of my wake upmoments with church, I had
gotten kind of down on lots ofthings and we had listen, we had
had, by this time I'd had myfirst child.

(30:11):
My my wife and I had had hadgiven birth to our first child.
Actually, I guess we'd givenbirth to our second. So we had
2. So Evan had come along. Andit was mother's day, and I
really didn't want to go tochurch on mother's day.
I wanted we wanted to go down tothe lake. That was one of what's
what we were gonna do. So that'swhat I wanted to do. And, I have

(30:36):
to track back to see this. Ididn't see it at the time as it
was happening, but as I lookback in my memory, I can see
exactly what God did.
We had to drive by theWinchester Cumberland
Presbyterian Church on our wayto the lake. Mhmm. And it just
so happened we drove by rightas. A bunch of women were
walking out carrying rosesbecause they were moms. My wife

(31:01):
and I had gotten in a heateddiscussion over whether we were
going to church that day, andshe was mad at me.
And I saw that, and my heartbroke. And I recognized what I
had done. That I had put mydesires in not only in front of
hers, but in front of thisopportunity for her to be

(31:24):
recognized for the greatestthing that she will ever be. And
I softened that day to a lot ofthings, and we started going to
church a little more. That was awake up moment for me, that, my

(31:50):
my views and things.
And Liza will tell you to thisday, that I made this statement
before, that I believe thatchurch was for weak minded
individuals, to go to and to beinstructed on how to behave. And
I didn't need that. Mhmm. That'spreacher Blake telling you.

(32:11):
That's what I believed or what Isaid and what I thought at the
time.

T.J. (32:15):
Oh, you don't think that anymore?

Blake (32:17):
No. I don't. I think it can be.

T.J. (32:21):
Mhmm.

Blake (32:22):
I think it can be. But I think that my job is to
strengthen your mind to a placeto where you recognize that God
is at work in each and everyaspect of your life, and is
seeking to draw youregotistical, macho self out of

(32:49):
that, and turn you into somebodythat nearly cries every time
they preach. To turn you in tosomebody who loves more than
they ever thought they could.That's what I wanna do because

(33:12):
that's what God did for me. So Iwanna help everybody experience
that.
Get yourself out of the waycompletely die to self, even if
it's just a little bit everysingle day. I sometimes use this
analogy. I God had to do thiswith me. He still does it with
me. He takes this little bittyknife.

(33:33):
It's this little bitty tiny one,and he cuts off just a little
bitty part of me. And if he cancut off part of me every day,
then I become more who hecreated me to be. Because he's
killing the part that's I'vecreated to reveal what he

(33:55):
created. So sometimes that's afew ribs. Sometimes that's a big
blow to the ego.
Sometimes it's loving somebodyyou never ever thought you might
love.

T.J. (34:14):
That didn't happen overnight for most.

Blake (34:17):
No. No. It was a long, arduous journey. And I I, you
know, and I I'm I'm can I'mstill on it. Thank thank the
lord.
I'm still here and still doingit.

T.J. (34:33):
Mhmm.

Blake (34:35):
Still dying. Still dying. And that's a good thing.

T.J. (34:41):
Well, I interrupted you with a poor attempt at humor.
You were you were talking about,Mother's Day and that was a
moment that you softened. Sowhat what did the coming months
years look like after that?

Blake (35:00):
So after that, like I said, I softened, and a strange
opportunity revealed itself tome. I got invited to, go on an
Emmaus walk. I didn't evenreally know what that was. I had
heard of it because I had anephew who had gone. And I had,

(35:24):
written him a letter.
That's part of it. I'm not so asa spiritual director for the
Emmaus community here, I telleveryone there are no secrets.
They're just stuff that aresurprises. But, yeah, you might
get a letter sometime during theweekend if you win. And, so I've

(35:47):
written a letter and and myegotistical self said, boy, I'd
like to get a bunch of letters.
People tell me how great I am.My love language is words of
affirmation.

T.J. (35:58):
Okay. So This this is the the old Blake. This is This

Blake (36:01):
was the old egotistical Blake. Absolutely, that was who
that was. But at some point saidto my wife, yeah. I'd like to do
that. So years had gone by.
That was prior to Mother's Daythat I said that. Years had gone
by, and, I get a phone call oneevening. My my 2 kids are there.

(36:24):
I am playing a video gamebecause Wyatt was old enough
that he could get through levels1, maybe 2 of any video game.
But that's as far as he couldgo.
So they would watch me playthrough the rest of the levels.
So I'm playing a video game, andI get a phone call from this
guy. And he says, I heard thatyou might like to go on the walk

(36:46):
to Emmaus. And I'm focused onplaying the video game. I'm
like, yeah.
And then I you know, and I'mlike, why did I say that? What's
he talking about? And, he's hesaid, oh, I'd like to sponsor
you. And, I said, well, okay. Isaid, tell me more about that.
What what is this? And he'slike, oh, it's this 3 day

(37:07):
weekend. And then I'm like, dingding ding. That's what I did for
my nephew. That's where theletters come from.
Mhmm. And, so I was like, okay.He said, can I come over
tomorrow night and do thepaperwork? And I said, sure. And
I hung up the phone.

(37:28):
Leslie had gone to exercise, andto get away from the 2 children
after I had gotten home fromwork, right, to to get herself
her little, hours worth ofbreathing in, and and a little
break. So she comes in, and Isaid, what have you gotten me
into? And she said, what do youmean? I said, Don Bean has just

(37:50):
called me. And Don Bean had beenmy Sunday school teacher in the
3rd 4th grade at WinchesterCumberland Presbyterian Church.
And he's asked me to go on thiswalk to Emmaus, and she has this
look come across her face like,Oh, yeah. She had talked to Dawn
about it sometime earlier andhad planned to tell me about it,

(38:12):
but she had forgotten to tell methat she had talked to Don. And
so Don just called and there wasthis thing. I said, well, you
gotta call him back. Tell himbecause I ain't going.
You gotta call him back and tellhim I'm not going. He's supposed
to come here tomorrow. I ain'tgoing.

T.J. (38:24):
No. Hold on. Hold on. Let me let me dissect this a bit. So
this is Blake, macho man Blake.
But in the moment ofuncertainty, you're telling your
wife to make the call thatyou're backing out?

Blake (38:42):
Absolutely. Yes. Right? What a weenie.

T.J. (38:46):
Yeah. Weak.

Blake (38:50):
Yeah. Yeah. Right. I'm like, you I did. You got me into
this.
You're gonna get me out. Shesaid, well, I I you don't know
my wife very well, but she'sreally mild and mannered and
meek. And she said, if you're ifyou ain't going, you gonna have
to be the one that tells it. So,you know, if you know her, you
know that's exactly what shedid.

T.J. (39:09):
I haven't met her, but I like her already.

Blake (39:11):
Yeah. And so Don comes over, and we start doing this
paperwork. And I'm like, oh,man. I can't tell this guy no. I
can't.
He's my Sunday school teacher. II've known him. I went to spent
I I went through all my schoolyears with his daughter. I'm not
I you know, I I can't back outof this. So I do all the

(39:35):
paperwork, and then it comestime to go on the walk.
And I, again, I get mad at mywife, and I say, I I'm not
going. I'm not going. And shesaid, well, you call him and
tell him you're not going, butI'm not gonna do anything. And
I'm mad, and she does she doesprobably the smartest thing that
she could have done at the time.She's like, me and the kids are

(39:58):
going somewhere.
I don't know where they went.Walmart or something. And she
abandoned me to be sit therealone and wait on Dawn Bean to
come pick me up. So I toughenedup, loaded up in the car, and
went. And, got there, It wasjust a strange experience.

(40:22):
Like I say, I don't want to saytoo much about Emmaus because
there are some special things.But I'll say this, that in the
course of that weekend, justlike those pilgrims on the
Emmaus road, I had an encounterwith Jesus, and my life changed.
And that's when the wrestlingmatch began. The wrestling match

(40:46):
lasts about 5 years, because Ilike to wrestle. But it started
in that very weekend.
Yeah.

T.J. (40:58):
In that wrestling match, what did it entail? Blake
changing, Blake transforming,Blake in the ministry. What what
does that mean?

Blake (41:10):
Yeah. So, again, I started to interact with more
people and recognize that maybethey were more like me than than
I thought.

T.J. (41:21):
Mhmm.

Blake (41:25):
Got it. It I I began to serve there. And as I served on
Emmaus teams, as I served in thekitchen, in the background, as I
as I did those things, I I juststarted I I just I kept
encountering god. I kept seeinggod over and over and over and

(41:50):
recognizing that I had beenseeing God over and over and
over all of my life. I justdidn't know until that initial
time, I did not know that I whatI was seeing was Jesus at work.

(42:11):
I I I was I don't wanna say Iwas secular because I was I was
I was a spiritual dude. I justwasn't a religious dude.

T.J. (42:19):
Mhmm.

Blake (42:22):
So I had been seeing god in a lot of a lot of ways, but,
boy, when I started to serve andI think that's one of the
biggest differences that I findwhen when really when when when
I see what I define as realChristianity is it comes out of

(42:43):
that service. And, of course,that service comes out of what
we've received. But, boy, if youjust start serving first, you
might you're liable to see it.Come on. It does it's it works
both ways.
You can receive a whole bunch ofgrace and then serve out of
that, or you can just startserving, and you'll just start
receiving a bunch of grace.You'll start to see it and start

(43:04):
to understand it. So for me, itwas both. And, I worked on my
way all the way through the layperson side in that wrestling
match. At one point, I had apreacher that tell me, that on
an Emmaus walk, there's a talkon the Emmaus walk.
And it may be the same title andsome of the others, but it's

(43:26):
called Priesthood of AllBelievers. And it's essentially
about how we're all called to bepriests in whatever place, and,
you know, at your workplace, atyour home, all that kind of
stuff. Well, in the back of mymind, I started going, well,
that's a cop out. That's a copout. And I told a preacher that,
and he said, well, that ain'tnormal.

(43:47):
If you think that being a priestwherever you are is a cop out,
then you're doing that very samething, and that ain't normal.
And so I began to say, well,does that mean that I'm being
called to something else? And,of course, it did. Of course, it
did. But it took me a littlewhile to figure that out.

T.J. (44:10):
Now, Blake, what what was your, first career?

Blake (44:15):
So I grew up my in a family furniture store. So I
I've been in sales all my life.I start I earned my first
commission check when I was 13years old working on Saturdays,
And I start I sold a lady arecliner on a Saturday afternoon
when I was 13, and it was one ofthe highest highs I had had in

(44:38):
my 13 years. And, I made mydaddy proud and all those
things. And, so I worked insales there.
I went into, I I did some on theroad sales for a little while,
worked for LG. When, highdefinition television first came

(45:00):
out, that was that was my time.Alright? Mhmm. I sold the first
high definition television, highdefinition plasma television to
be sold in the southeast.
I sold it to the deal to mydealer. And then when he had a
customer interested in it, Iwent and sold it to him. I sold
a 42 inch plasma television to adealer. At that time, the the,

(45:25):
cost was $9,999 for a 42 inchhigh definition television.

T.J. (45:31):
Golly.

Blake (45:32):
And he sold it to his customer for $14,999.

T.J. (45:39):
Commercial or residential?

Blake (45:41):
It was residential. The guy owned a Budweiser
distributorship. I even went inand put it in his house. I
installed it for him andeverything. I did all that
stuff, to good customer service.
I'm a firm believer in that.Right? So we did all those
things. So I sold on the roadfor a while, and then came back
off the road, back into thefurniture store, up until I

(46:06):
finally gave into ministry. Andthe day the day I the day I went
in went to seminary, my dad puta going out of business sign up
at his furniture store.
My dad went out of business,after I left. There were other
factors, of course, but it waspretty unique to me the day that

(46:28):
I left at this going out ofbusiness. The thing I thought
would always be my future.Right? And I thought I was, that
I would inherit the familybusiness and do all those
things, was not what god had.
And, you know, one door openedand another closed forever,
which was really healthy for me,because I had always used that

(46:49):
furniture store. It was a reallycomfortable safety net. I could
go out and venture and try someother things. I tried my hand at
insurance too, and I did notlike selling insurance. I I like
selling people things that madethem happy.
Nobody's happy to pay aninsurance bill. It was just not

(47:10):
just didn't fit my personality,I guess. But, Yeah. Yeah. So,
all those things changed overtime when I left for seminary.
Yeah.

T.J. (47:21):
Well, let's live here for a minute. You're on a Emmaus
walk weekend and you're inconversation with a minister
about the priesthood of allbelievers. And then I asked you
about your, your first career.Because I just wanted context of

Blake (47:39):
Sure.

T.J. (47:39):
What all your balancing family, career, and what
transformations are about to hityour life.

Blake (47:49):
Yeah. Yeah. It was. So I'm having that conversation,
and I had that conversation withmultiple ministers. That was one
of probably one of the bestthings about the the the
friendships I got out of thewalk to Emmaus.
I I got to interact with a lotof the different preachers, And
I tried to do this for my forfor my perspective now.

(48:14):
Sometimes it's easier to talk toa preacher who don't really know
you and maybe not your preacher.I do more counseling with people
that are that are not members ofmy congregation. Sometimes it's
just on the phone. Sometimes Ido interactive.
Those kinds of things. Just youyou can be a little I found I

(48:37):
was a little more open withsomebody that, didn't know
everything about me. Mhmm. My Ihad pretty much the same
minister all my life at being atWinchester. Jonathan Clark came
to Winchester when I was, Ithink, 6 years old, and he was
my minister all the way through.

(48:58):
He, had my ordination service.He spoke at my ordination
service. So in in in myordination service, he said that
he and I had had a conversation,and I told him. I said, you're
the only preacher I ever reallyhad. You know?
Only you were my CP minister. Inthat ordination service, he, you
know, he said, well, I hope Idid a good job. And, of course,

(49:19):
I I think you did a great job.But, yeah. So he he he had been
my minister there.
So he'd known me all my life andknown my family, all that kind
of stuff. So sometimes it's justsafer to talk to somebody that
doesn't really know you. And isjust taking just what you have
right there at that moment.Mhmm. And so I try to be that in

(49:43):
the Emmaus community or outside.
So I'm also serving in the samecounty I grew up in. So their
people come to me. They've knownme all my life, but I'm the
preacher, but I ain't theirpreacher. So they can come talk
to me about things and and seemsto work okay.

T.J. (50:01):
Mhmm.

Blake (50:03):
But back to the to the to the journey. So, yeah, I I go
all the way through the walk toEmmaus. I actually made a a a
friend with a minister friendthrough Emmaus that introduced
me to a guy who was doing men'sretreats. And I started doing
men's retreats with a guy namedLarry Malone. He was, he was a

(50:25):
Methodist.
And, we would do God's storymen's retreats. That was his
kind of thing. And he was afighter pilot in, Vietnam, and
he he could tell stories. And hereally helped me learn how to
tell a story to connect god inthe everyday. So I I learned

(50:52):
from him how to take everydaymoments and pull god out of that
spot, and then flesh that outand build everything into god's
story as opposed to our story.
So I did a bunch of those, andthat was still scratching my
itch of manliness. Right? Thatthat okay. Men's retreat. I can

(51:12):
do those.
And so I I we we did several ofthose retreats together. And,
eventually, I just I found thatno matter how many Emmaus walks
I did, no matter how many men'sretreats I did, no matter how

(51:32):
many bible studies I did, Ididn't feel like I was giving
God enough. I there was stillsomething left. I'm like,
because I would do each andeverything and go, god, isn't
this enough? I'm doing this.
Isn't this enough? And theanswer was always no. I felt it

(51:54):
in my heart. It was just not notnot enough. I was not every
listen.
I don't have to be better thanyou at anything. But I have to
be the best person the best Ican be at whatever it is I
choose to be. It's the reason Idon't play golf. Golf's too
expensive for me to be as goodas I can be at. So I've never

(52:18):
picked up on that addiction.
I I don't have to be better thanyou. You could beat me every
time, but I have to be as goodat golf as I could ever be. And
in order to do that, I have towork and practice and play, and
I could never could afford that.So I don't play golf. But I just
I it it wasn't enough.

(52:38):
I wasn't all in. And at somepoint, I've decided to be all in
and talk about going into theministry and making it
everything that I do.

T.J. (52:48):
That was the path that you saw. That was the only way to
feel or to respond to some ofthe emotions that you were
experiencing.

Blake (53:00):
There's another thing I had left. I mean, I was like,
I've done so I've done all thethings I could come up with, but
I still think I'm doing enough.I'm not I'm not doing enough for
god.

T.J. (53:10):
Well, that seems frustrating though.

Blake (53:13):
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, we argued a bunch. Isn't this
enough, god? I'm doing this.
I'm all my free time, you know,I'm I'm taking my I don't in in
sales, you don't get weekendsoff, but I was given a bunch of
weekends and and now all thatstuff. I'm I'm giving you all my
time and and that I can and and,you know, and I I still gotta

(53:35):
earn a living, you know, blahblah blah. And then, of course,
god showed me that too. I youknow, you can get by on a whole
lot less than ever thought ofwhen God's in it when God's in
it. Right?

T.J. (53:49):
How is this affecting your family life, your marriage, your
parenting? Are you a betterhusband?

Blake (53:58):
Absolutely.

T.J. (53:58):
Better father? Even even with this internal wrestling,
that frustration is not rollingout and rolling over to other
members of your family?

Blake (54:13):
No. I I don't think it did. I I somebody may one of my
family members may answer thatdifferently. But I don't think
that the frustration I I I keptmost of the frustration
internal. But I will say when Ifinally told my wife that I felt
like I needed to go intoministry, it was not a surprise.

T.J. (54:36):
Everybody everybody seems to say that. For those who enter
the ministry maybe as a secondcareer or second calling,
everybody seems to respond oralmost everybody is like the
only one that's surprised is theone who responds to the call in
ministry. All the family membersand neighbors and friends are

(54:59):
like, well, you know, it's abouttime.

Blake (55:02):
Yeah. Yeah. I think that was I think that was it. I

T.J. (55:05):
wonder what makes people so blind to the obvious.

Blake (55:11):
I think it's the sacrifice. The the the the fear
of giving up everything that weare in order to become something
else. No. That's not true. Idon't think it's true at all.
Mhmm. But I think that's what myfear was, is, okay. Am I going
to have to change all the otherways in which I have defined

(55:34):
myself in my life? The answer isyes, in some way, but in other
ways they become more pure.Because so if I look at myself
and and if I so let's say Idefine myself as a warrior,
because I did.

T.J. (55:54):
I'm sorry.

Blake (55:55):
Yeah. I mean but

T.J. (55:57):
I I mean, I think of a warrior who is just gonna fight
to the death, but is alsolooking for a fight, looking for
a chance to prove the merit ofsurvival.

Blake (56:12):
Well, we can look for it in a lot of different ways.
Mhmm. So I I that that provingmyself was probably a I mean,
that was an everyday thing forme. Whether it was, learning how

(56:39):
to to, I mean, gosh. I I knowhow to use so many useless
weapons, ancient weapons thatare that have, you know, that
you can't carry around with you,you know, but I'm really good at
it.
So those little intricacies andlearning those things, those
were proven that that that wasthat mentality. And and in order

(57:02):
to do that, in my opinion, I hadI had put myself in this place
of I'm always thinking in thatway. So if I had so so back to
what I was saying, I guess, isif I was defining myself as
that, I was afraid I had to givethat give that up. But then in
reality, God kind of makes itmore pure, in that, yes, there's

(57:28):
all kinds of different ways thatwe can be warriors in the world.
Sometimes that is, from aspiritual perspective.
Sometimes that's a refinementthat requires discipline. That's
the big part of being a warrior,is discipline. Well, spiritual

(57:49):
disciplines are that very samething. So I was able to go,
okay. So we're gonna turn thismore internally, turn that same
kind of drive to an internalspace.
And then, of course, when heturned something in internal, it
then turned god turned itexternal the way he wants it to

T.J. (58:17):
warrior to run with that metaphor, then we often think
of, yeah, something physical toeither overcome, defeat, master,
whatever it may be. But you'veshifted horizons to the
internal.

Blake (58:37):
Mhmm.

T.J. (58:38):
I can see where you could fight that tooth and nail
because it's so much easier whenyou can feel and see and hear
maybe what your enemy is orwhatever it is that you want to
overcome. But when you take thatinwardly, that changes the
landscape.

Blake (58:59):
Absolutely. Yeah. I'd much rather get hit in the face
than wrestle with some of thethings internally you have to
wrestle with when you come towhen you come to terms to to
what part of this inside of meis stopping me from moving into

(59:19):
the next place God would haveme. Be. And I go back to that
dying every day.
It's not fun to let some of thatstuff die. It's important. It's
vital. It's vital to to abundantlife that all the rest of that

(59:40):
stuff die away. Isn't that thepart of the gospel message as a
whole?
That we that that that wesurrender ourselves, that we
sacrifice in order for god tolive in and through us? Well,
that's that it's easy to say,but, man, it's hard to do. It's

(01:00:02):
hard And to recognize that I ammy own worst enemy in many,
many, many cases. I'm the thingthat's keeping me from making
that next step. It's not anybodyelse.
Man, it's easy to blame others,but it's me, And I'm willing to

(01:00:22):
let that die.

T.J. (01:00:24):
Because it's even deeper than looking at the limitations
like, oh, okay. I don't havethat skill with that particular
tool or sport or whatever it maybe, but I can overcome that.
This is a different type ofthing of actually letting go of
a portion of your identity orwhat you thought identified you

(01:00:45):
as an individual, as Blake.

Blake (01:00:48):
Absolutely. It's your it's my my own created idea of
who I was and letting that go,and then and then coming to the
place that I am still I am stillfleshing out. And that is going
but but whatever drive it wasthat created in me the desire to

(01:01:12):
define myself as a warrior, toagain use that metaphor. That
same drive was knit together inmy mother's womb for me. So how
to trans how to allow god totransform all of that into

(01:01:35):
something that is solely for hispurposes.
I'm still doing that. And Istill I I'm I'm still my worst
enemy. I still am. Still the onewho gets mad and and, or fails

(01:01:58):
at loving somebody or name it.You name it.
I still do the sinful things.Man, my biggest thing is my go
to I'm a fighter, so my go to isto fight. When in actuality, I

(01:02:20):
need to be able to love in a waynot to compromise my views or
not to not to not to short sellgod, but to love my enemy,
that's hard. That's hard. Andit's only through god that I can

(01:02:44):
even attempt to be in thatspace.

T.J. (01:02:52):
You were talking earlier about the beginning of the
seminary journey. Is thereanything during that time of
your life that you want toshare?

Blake (01:03:03):
Yeah. So, again, part of my my I went to I went to visit
2 seminary. Now my my wifewanted me to go to Asbury, and
we had known several methodiststhat had gone to Asbury through
the Emmaus walk. I knew severalof them. So we went to visit

(01:03:24):
Asbury.
And, man, it's beautiful upthere. It's a beautiful campus.
It's it's great place, all thosethings, and and I'm not taking
anything away from it. It's anawesome experience. And Leslie
left there thinking, oh, we'rewe're moving.
We're going there. That's that'sgonna be awesome, and we'll be,

(01:03:46):
you know, encased in this whole,seminary journey together. And
we'll raise our kids up there,and it'll just be wonderful and
all those things. And 2 thingshappened on that, that that she
didn't realize were going on inmy brain, while we were at
Asbury. One was, they took us toa class, and then in the class,

(01:04:09):
it was a class on leadership.
And I left that class going,man, I've been in so many sales
seminars. I could have taughtthat class. I didn't learn a
thing. Mhmm. Now I know theyteach other things.
That's just what they taught.I'm not knocking Asbury at all.
I in fact, my best friendgraduated from there. So I I'm

(01:04:30):
not knocking them at all. I'mjust saying that's what happened
to me.
And the other was, at dinner,the the meeting after dinner
was, here. Let us help you fillout all the paperwork for all
the student. Why don't you goahead check? And so on the way
home, I said, well, I know youloved it. To I've said telling

(01:04:51):
my wife, I know you loved it.
But we owe it to the CumberlandPresbyterian Church to go visit
Memphis. Mhmm. And she said,okay. But we're gonna go to
Asbury. You know?
And, so we went down to Memphis.And, the the preview class we

(01:05:17):
had well, we of course, BarryAnderson spoke with us. And this
is this was he actually spoke toLeslie in his little speech. He
tells this story coming out ofone of the chronicles of Narnia,
the horse and his boy. He tellsthis story, and Leslie's sitting
over there.
And she's like, that's myfavorite book. That's my

(01:05:38):
favorite story out of that book.And she her radar her god radar
went up and went, uh-oh,something's happening. Right?
And then I took, then she had weshe was nursing our youngest
child, so she couldn't hang outin the classroom while we had
the class.
She she he was still Lucas wasstill a little bitty fella. And,

(01:06:02):
doctor Aliu Niang came in toteach the preview class. He's no
longer at MTS. He was in fact,he left before I got out. But in
an hour and a half, he taught memore about the Bible than I had
ever learned in my entire life.

(01:06:22):
I soaked it up, and I leftthere. And I I told I told
Leslie on the ride home, I said,I don't know about you, but I
gotta know what that guy knows.I am ill equipped to do this
job, because he just showed mehow little I know. And I told

(01:06:45):
you, I don't have to be betterthan you, but I gotta be as good
as I can be. So that's thereason I went to MTS.
That alone. That was it. Ineeded to know. Now I'm not
anywhere near as smart as him,but I learned a whole lot from
it. And that was that was whattook me to MTS.

(01:07:10):
And then my goodness. What atransformation happened in me
there. I learned so much, somany ways to not only understand
the Bible, not only study it,but how to how to deal with
people, how to how to lovepeople who were very, very

(01:07:31):
different from me. You know? Thediversity that was at MTS is one
of their their greatest points.
And I learned so much because,you know, I live in rural
Tennessee. Most everybody lookslike me. They don't look like me
in Memphis, but, boy, we were awhole lot alike. It's just like

(01:07:55):
you said earlier when we'retalking about the call story,
how everybody else knows. Well,I I love sitting in those
classes.
They're talk everybody tellingtheir call story, and I'm like,
thank god. This is everybody'sgot the same story. The
timelines are different, but weall it's all similar. God worked
in all of us in at least verysimilar ways, but yet unique.

T.J. (01:08:17):
Right.

Blake (01:08:20):
So yeah. Yeah. That was my entry into seminary. My 2nd
semester of seminary, I I had anopportunity because of the
travel, all of those kinds ofthings. I only took 2 classes
plus formation for ministry.
So that was an hour and thentook took took the other two
classes. One was Christianethics, and one was the parables

(01:08:42):
with doctor Niang. And, I don'tknow. Maybe it was because I
only had the 2 classes, and I Iactually had enough time to read
all the books that wereassigned, you know, to really
read them all instead of powerreading. Right?
That's part of what you have todo in seminary sometimes, is get

(01:09:03):
the gist and then move on. But,I read everything, and I that
semester, Blake Stevens became areally different person. A
really between between learningabout Christian ethics and
having to discuss things fromthe standpoint of what would the
what would Jesus say about this?How would the scripture, help

(01:09:26):
you to interpret this? Betweenthat and learning the
subversiveness of the parablesthat Jesus was speaking, my my
world opened wide open to, ohmy, I have been putting god in
this little tiny box, and thereain't a box that can hold god.

T.J. (01:09:55):
When people are exposed

Blake (01:09:59):
to

T.J. (01:10:02):
new ways of reading the scripture, It has multiple
reactions, responses as astudent of the Old and the New
Testament. What words ofencouragement do you have for

(01:10:24):
those who want to study thescriptures? They don't even have
to be a Christian, let alonesomebody called to ministry, and
are looking for more in-depth,more focus beyond the
superficial of Sunday schoolmaterial or just a 5 minute

(01:10:48):
devotion, how would you preparethem for their world to be
rocked in a way that yours was?Because it could be very scary
or overwhelming. Because it canundermine maybe if you already
have some background in theChristian faith or in the
scriptures.
And it can also do somethinglike, well wait, if that's not

(01:11:12):
true, then how can everythingelse now everything has to be
questioned in the Old and NewTestament. I rambled there a
bit. Maybe you come up behind meand sort of clear it up with
some beautiful beautifullycrafted word or response of
wisdom and clarity. But there isthat place to where it can

(01:11:36):
become unnerving for folks ofgoing, wait. You know, whether
it's about the gospels or Paul'swritings or something in the old
testament that can really shakepeople, especially those who are
preparing for ministry.
And I've seen folks eitherembrace new perspectives, and

(01:12:00):
then the other extreme, I'veseen people just become very
rigid and go, well wait, thatcannot be true. Because if if
that's untrue or there's anotherway to look at it, then
everything else comes unraveled.I don't know, what are your
thoughts, Blake? Especiallysomebody who kind of worked

(01:12:21):
through that.

Blake (01:12:25):
I guess my so I there there are a few key terms I use
a lot when I preach. One of thethings I use, I've already told
you about my little knifeanalogy. That comes up a lot.
But one of the another thing Iuse is lean into it. Just lean
into it.
Chase it. So when you havedoubts or when you're

(01:12:50):
challenged, chase it. I had abunch of, had a bunch of doubts,
a bunch of fears, a bunch ofquestions, but chase it because
god is chasing you at the sametime. And somewhere along the

(01:13:12):
way, you interact. So take astep.
Walk through the door, howeveryou want to say it. Walk through
it. See what happens. I havefound that every bit of growth I
ever had started with saying yesto some. Yeah.

(01:13:37):
I'll try. Yeah. I'll do it. I'mwilling to to risk it to see
what's on the other side. SoI'll step through this door.
I'll run after that littlethought over there. Mhmm. And I
am not afraid of doubts. Withindoubt, by having doubts, I have

(01:14:02):
to figure out what the answeris. If I already know it, then
why am I doing it?
If I already got the answer,then I got the answer. I lived
the first 33 years of my lifelike that. Had all the answers.
So I love doubt. I lovequestions, but it's an adventure

(01:14:29):
to figure out the real answer,The pure one, the true one.
We're chasing truth. Jesus istruth. So I'm chasing him. And
the whole time, in a spiritualperspective, he's standing there
going, come and find me. Comeand find me.

(01:14:53):
I've been here all along. Sowhat is it that's blocked? What
where's your blinder? Removethat and look. In my ordination
service, My son played a song,by a really obscure songwriter.

(01:15:16):
His name's David Wilcox. And thesong he's saying has this line
in it, and it says, I saw yousee, but you did not see me
because you were goingsomewhere. Well, that was my
whole life. I had seen God,literally. That's it.

(01:15:40):
What what is that? What wasthat? Oh, I ain't got time to
think about what that was. I'mgoing this way. Well, slow down
a minute.
So I do search and rescuetracking. I'm a man tracker for
the search and rescue team herethat I did that before I became
a preacher. I still do it today.It's still a thing. Well, if you

(01:16:04):
woke open up your your vision toa place where you can pick up on
what's a shadow place, If I'mlooking for a footprint in the
middle of the woods, it's got astraight line on it because
people wear shoes.
Straight lines don't exist innature. So that's the thing
that's out of place. Well, inthe world in which we live in,

(01:16:29):
sometimes God leaves you alittle footprint over here for
you to go, what is that, if yougot the eyes to see it. And then
if you go and look at it, youmight actually be able to
analyze that footprint enough togo, oh, this is the direction of
travel. Where's that next one?

(01:16:50):
Where's that next footprint?Well, if you won't find that
next one, there's another onetoo. And another one and another
one and another one. And beforeyou know it, you are walking the
path of god.

T.J. (01:17:10):
Where do we find God? I haven't asked this question of a
guest in a long time. I used toask when I first started, you
know, where do you see God inthe world today? And so I pose
that question to you.

Blake (01:17:27):
I find god in the everyday moments, in the small
things, the sunrise, the windthat blows just right to where
you might be listening to hisvery voice. And I find God in

(01:17:50):
the big picture. I see God in inthe movement of love and grace.
It's out there. It's everywhere.
You know, I'm a nature guy, soit's easy for me to say, oh, I

(01:18:12):
find god in nature. It's so muchmore than that. It's so much
more than that. I find himinside too when I shut down
enough. I shut out all the otherstuff, and I quit talking.
Now listen. And I say, where areyou? Where where is that next

(01:18:36):
footprint? Because it's outthere.

T.J. (01:18:40):
Yeah. And I'm laughing because, your words made me
think of me. You know, they'rejust, the life that I live,
schedule that I keep is, it'sthere. Can I slow down enough?

(01:19:00):
And slow down not for thepurpose of sleep, but for
reflection.

Blake (01:19:07):
Yeah.

T.J. (01:19:08):
And there's a difference.

Blake (01:19:10):
Oh, 100%.

T.J. (01:19:13):
Sleep, rest, reflection, those are very different.

Blake (01:19:18):
Yeah. And necessary to me for for me, it's necessary for
me to do something that's notnot preacher related. Not you
know, I gotta take that hat offsometimes, you know, and go,

(01:19:39):
okay. I'm gonna go out here andrun around in the woods. And I
honestly, my my my group offriends that are part of the
rescue squad I serve on, they'rea great place for that.
They let me be just me, youknow. And what I find
fascinating about that is somany times I get to be a pure

(01:20:05):
version of preacher me too. Wedeal with a lot of stuff.
There's a lot of things we seeand do and, you know, when you
when you I try I I don't wannasound make this sound too

(01:20:26):
flippant. But when you find a 14year old kid in the that's
drowned in the lake, and youpull them out.
And you touch them, and I telleverybody, I'm like, that
feeling. I I I can't describe toyou what it feels like to touch
a drowned victim, but I know Inever will forget it. And I know

(01:20:51):
what that feels like. And whenand those guys in there that are
doing that job with me, theyneed help, and they need
somebody to talk to about that.And I get to be a really pure
version of preacher me in thoseinstances when we're dealing

(01:21:12):
with, bad stuff.
It's bad stuff.

T.J. (01:21:17):
Life, death, mortality. How do you process that?

Blake (01:21:26):
Yeah, we do.

T.J. (01:21:27):
How do you yeah. How do you articulate yeah. How how do
you articulate to those who havenot seen what you've seen,
touched what you've touched,heard what you've heard?

Blake (01:21:42):
It's it's almost impossible to to to tell anybody
that hasn't done it. Mhmm. Buteven the people who've done it
need to hear from theperspective of, number 1,
listen, not everybody can dowhat you just did. I've seen

(01:22:03):
countless people. The first timeit happens, you never see them
again.
Mhmm. And for those who canremain and do that thing, it's a
gift, because we offer peopleclosure. I can't imagine if I

(01:22:24):
thought my 14 year old haddrowned and we didn't, and
nobody could get their bodyback. So we provide a service
that has eternal value becauseyou provide closure for the
family. And that's important forthose people who are doing it to
recognize.

(01:22:46):
I think it's God's work. I thinkwe're doing the work when we do
those things, And they certainlyneed to know that it's important
because there there are not awhole lot of thank yous that go
around for that or fireman orpoliceman or any of those

(01:23:07):
things. There's not a whole lotof thank yous for what gets
done. And so you have to find itinternally. And I I I'm
privileged to get to serve nextto them and and not only help
the families, but also helpthose that are doing the job.

T.J. (01:23:27):
Well, let's live here for a moment. So you're in middle
Tennessee. How often do youreceive calls for is it search
and rescue that you do? Yeah.

Blake (01:23:40):
So we do search and rescue. We have we have a Lake
here. So those are typicallyrecovery. Mhmm. There's no way
we can get there in time.
But if somebody goes off theboat, we're we're just trying to
find them. So that's not arescue. The rescue side comes on
the land side, which is myspecialty. Land land cert I'm

(01:24:01):
the land search captain, sothat's my specialty is land. But
I'm also dive certified and helpoperate the sonar equipment
sometimes and all those kinds.
I kinda I dabble in everythingbecause we're we're a small
crew. So everybody's gotta kindaknow how to do everything.

T.J. (01:24:20):
Mhmm.

Blake (01:24:22):
So how often? That's that's like the the, it's almost
a curse to say. Oh, not toooften because then it'll Okay.
The phone will ring. So we sincewe've been keeping records,
there's over a 100, bodiesrecovered out of Timbs Ford Lake

(01:24:43):
since we've been keeping record.
It's it's an every year,multiple times a year
occurrence. Everything from, youknow, freak accidents to
suicide. That's a reality.That's something we do. To

(01:25:07):
stupidity.

T.J. (01:25:10):
Is this all volunteer?

Blake (01:25:12):
Yes. We are yes. The the rescue squad here is an all
volunteer service. Yeah.

T.J. (01:25:19):
How often on average when you're doing doing a search and
rescue can you be out in theelements?

Blake (01:25:29):
Oh, every time.

T.J. (01:25:30):
Well, I mean, for is there shifts? Is there hours?

Blake (01:25:37):
No. There's we're we're too small for that. Unless it's
like so if we if it was a wehaven't had a major major search
where we had to call in othercounties in a long, long time.
That's a potential, but, yeah.No.
I've been out all night long.I've been out all night long and

(01:26:01):
then come in and preach. That'sa thing. Yeah. We're so lots of
times people go missing, let'ssay it's a Saturday night, and
they're gone they've gonemissing, and we're searching A
lot of times, just this is justthrough historical about the

(01:26:23):
time the sun comes up, thingsget easier.
The noise of the woods quietdown if you're on a search like
that. That that happens, and sothey hear you more. I've I've
been probably 30 yards fromsomebody, and them not be able
to hear me over especially overthe cicadas as we've had
recently. Right? They can't hearyou yell.

(01:26:45):
But, yeah, as the sun rises,people start to move around,
start to look, start torecognize places, those kinds of
things. You come across onthose. That that's a
possibility. So, yeah, I've hadSaturday nights where I was out
all night and come in and go,okay. I'm just gonna get
straight in the shower and gopreach and then I'll sleep after

(01:27:06):
that.
So, yeah, I mean, that's a, notan everyday occurrence, but
it's, certainly a possibility.Yeah.

T.J. (01:27:15):
Well, speaking of church, let's talk about the Cumberland
Presbyterian Church. The onlychurch you know really.

Blake (01:27:21):
That's right.

T.J. (01:27:25):
If you were to explain this denomination to somebody
who was not familiar with it,what would be the good aspects
that you would mention? And thenif you were to analyze us as a
denomination from the inside outor the outside in, really, we
can choose. What would be someof the areas of weakness, some

(01:27:46):
of the areas for improvement tobe the best that we can be as
the practice that you holdyourself to as an individual? So
it's a 2 part question. You canrun with it.

Blake (01:27:59):
Alright. Well, I I I usually start off by telling
everybody that we're a prettysmall denomination. We find our
roots in a bunch of hard hardheaded Scots Irish folk, and we
still are. I still I stillprescribe to the idea that we

(01:28:25):
are a medium theology. I thatthat we are, a place I believe
that I that within the confinesof our confession of faith, on
many, many different topics, Ican find a way that the

(01:28:47):
confession of faith can mirrorsomeone else's view.
So you could tell me you believethis. Okay. Well, here I can.
Here's in the confession offaith. This is, you know, or
whosoever will people.
So here's where I can find thisor that or the other. I love our

(01:29:11):
confession for that reason. Ithink that we, we're very
connectional, which is somethingI didn't really understand until
I got outside of the WinchesterCumberland Presbyterian Church.

(01:29:32):
Mhmm. Because Winchester's a bigchurch.
It's a beautiful church,wonderful church. Not But when I
grew up in it, I didn't realizehow many other Cumberland
Presbyterian churches and howmuch connection there was. Maybe
because as a kid, I did notattend church camp. Now when my

(01:29:55):
kids started going to churchcamp, I started to go, hey.
We're this is special.
I don't I missed out on it, butthis is very, very special, and
the connectivity that comes fromthat. Now when I went out to
seminary, I sure saw theconnectional nature and, was,

(01:30:18):
again, an outsider because lotswhen I came, lots of the folks
that were CumberlandPresbyterian, they they came
straight out of Bethel, wentstraight to seminary. Well, I'm
in my thirties. I'm an old mancompared to them, you know, at
seminary. Right?
And, but quickly, you know,found friends within the

(01:30:41):
Cumberland Presbyterian Churchand and made good friends and
and, got to see thatconnectional nature. So the good
points that I see out of ourchurch is that we're like a
really big church in and ofitself. We know one another. We

(01:31:01):
get to know one another. I careabout you, and you care about
me.
And we talk, and we and we mightjust interact at the occasional
general assembly, or we mightinteract at at a presbytery if
you happen to be in the samepresbytery with somebody. But
regardless of that, we have wehave this threat of grace that's

(01:31:25):
running through us that we callourselves Cumberland
Presbyterian. And for better orworse, we define ourselves as
that.

T.J. (01:31:34):
Yeah. Yeah.

Blake (01:31:35):
Yeah. That's who we are. Mhmm. I'm Cumberland
Presbyterian, whatever thatmight mean. And apparently, it
means something different tosome other people sometimes.
And that's okay, because I thinkthat's alright. I think that's
healthy, that we are not allcookie cutter, because I don't
look like anybody. That was oneof my this whole conversation.

(01:31:58):
Oh, I don't know how long we'vebeen on today, but everything
we've talked about is how Idon't look like the rest of the
folks. It's been my struggle.
And it's to me, it's also one ofmy greatest strengths. Or it's
the this is the place god can bebest through me. I guess I
should define it that waybetter. So that's the good part.

(01:32:22):
What was that second part?

T.J. (01:32:26):
Well, with any group of people that come together, there
are places that we need to shoreup. You know, we have
weaknesses, we're not great ateverything. So as Cumberland
Presbyterians, what areas ofimprovement do we have as we
share our witness out into theworld? Or are we sharing our

(01:32:49):
witness out into the world?Maybe that's our weakness.

Blake (01:32:53):
I I I probably would go come closer to agreeing with you
there. I I think one of theproblems, that I see is that we
are very concerned with the boxin which we have put ourselves

(01:33:13):
in. And we want to defend thebox in which we are in to the
point of saying not reaching outvery much. So many of our
churches are family churches,and that's that's the both the

(01:33:35):
nature of of us as a whole, butit it can also be this this
weakness of, you know, when whenwhen you're looking for a new
church and a new place serve.When you're Blake Stevens and
you're looking for a place toserve because you've had this
awesome sort of Emmausexperience in whatever form that

(01:33:56):
it took on for whoever it is youare, and you come to a church
that says, oh no.
We got all the leadership we canuse. I'm probably gonna go look
somewhere else because god iscalling me. Mhmm. So I I I think
we we that that call is is a isan amazing thing, And we should

(01:34:21):
be able to, recognize thatperson's call to be a Sunday
school teacher, or to lead aman's bible study, or to be a
preacher, or to and I'm talkingfrom my perspective. So when I
say men's bible study, but awomen's bible study, just the
same.
If you what? We need to find away to celebrate the way God

(01:34:43):
works in each and every life.And so I I struggle with a few
things. I serve on the on thecommittee on ministry. I
struggle with the fact that wethink every preacher's got to
fit in this certain mold thatyou gotta come here, come under
care.
You gotta pick your path. Yougotta go to pause or you gotta

(01:35:04):
go to seminary. That's wherethat's where we gotta go. Or we
might even assign it to you. Idon't know.
Depending on where you are. Thisis where you gotta pick that
path and you gotta do that. Thenwhen you do that, then after you
do after you're about halfwaydone, we're gonna license you.
And then when you're done, we'regonna ordain you, and we're
gonna expect you to be apreacher. That's what we expect.

(01:35:29):
You need to look like this,because this is what I look
like. You need to look likethat. I think there are people
that are called to lots ofdifferent ways and forms and
fashions. And if they don't looklike let's say you're called to
be a chaplain. Well, yeah,they're just over there being
chaplains.

(01:35:51):
They're not in the inner sanctumof, the CP preacherness. You
know? I I I I I see that. I Isee these. We we we form these
clicks.
I believe this way or I believethat, and and and we make people
have to look like what theylook. What we want them to look

(01:36:14):
like.

T.J. (01:36:15):
Well, how do we overcome that?

Blake (01:36:19):
By celebrating the the spark within each and every
individual, and helping to fanthat flame, and not defining
anything. We need preachers.Yeah. We do. But if you feel
like your call is to if you feellike your call is to serve in a

(01:36:46):
search and rescue, squad as achap as a as a semiformal
chaplain, then we ought tosupport the fact that that's a
that's a calling too.
Mhmm. And we ought to find a wayto help you live into that.
You're not ever going back toliving at that, but a seminary
or a POTS degree, those could behelpful to that thing. Maybe we

(01:37:09):
need to expand who we educateand concentrate on educating
them.

T.J. (01:37:18):
Just educate everybody.

Blake (01:37:20):
Let's educate everybody. Let's have seminary seminary is
now online. Let's let's let'shave the average Joe church
member come and sit in a classwith Mitzi Minor. I think that'd
be awesome. There were peoplethat did that when I was in
seminary that lived there aroundme in Memphis, and they just

(01:37:42):
come and they'd sit in on theclass.
They didn't have to do thehomework, but, boy, they
learned. Mhmm. They learned.Alright. Let's do that.
I think that's a good idea.

T.J. (01:37:57):
Well, speaking of education, Blake, what are a
couple of books that are yourfavorite reads?

Blake (01:38:10):
Oh, gosh. I mean,

T.J. (01:38:11):
are you Education goes beyond the written word. I know
that. But

Blake (01:38:16):
Yeah. Yeah.

T.J. (01:38:16):
What recommendations do you have?

Blake (01:38:20):
Oh, I don't know. I I there's so many things. I you
know, and so here I go again. SoI'm not always I can find God
present in stuff that doesn'thave to be a theological book
either. Right?
I could find that. So I I'm alsonotoriously. I I'm I'm notorious

(01:38:46):
for listening to secular music.I'm sorry. And if everybody
wants to judge me over that,they can.
But I find God in secular musictoo. So I that those things, but
I I don't know. So I'm I'm a bigI love the Lord of the Rings. I
think the Lord of the Rings is aspiritual journey.

T.J. (01:39:03):
I think

Blake (01:39:03):
it's a book about our spiritual journey, about the
precious and the thing that thatI hold on to, that I don't wanna
let go of, that I don't wannathrow into the fiery place so
that I can go to that that nextlevel where God would have me to
be.

T.J. (01:39:22):
Well, that really resonates with everything that
we've talked about today.

Blake (01:39:26):
Yeah. Right. That's that's me. Right. That's that's
that's so that book means a lotto me.
Mhmm. And every step of thatjourney in finding the way, and,
you know, it even speaks to thewarrior side of me. Right?
That's that's very presentwithin there and how to how to
find those things. That that'sthat's a that's a go to, have to

(01:39:49):
kind of thing for me.
Even if you just just watch themovie if you don't want if
you're scared by the big book.But if you're if if you're if
you're willing to lean into it,read the big book. You know?
There's more there. Yeah.
That's that's one.

T.J. (01:40:06):
Alright. Well, I'll give you a break here. You mentioned,
music. How about, what music hasspoken to you over the years?

Blake (01:40:17):
Oh, gosh. So I love those obscure songwriters. David
Wilcox is one of my go toobscure songwriters. He he is,
definitely somebody that speaksto my soul. Joe Pugh, that's
another person.
If you haven't heard anythingfrom Joe Pugh, he speaks to my
soul. He has a he has some songsthat he calls hymns. There's

(01:40:40):
hymn number 35 and hymn 101 andall those things, and they are
Jesus. That's Jesus music, andyou're just not gonna hear it in
a contemporary service. Gosh.
There's there's so many, becauseI find I I love to find God in
the struggle of life. So I love,it it's probably the real

(01:41:04):
country music, not this messthat they have now. That's real
country music that talks aboutthe the hard times. That's
that's very real to me.

T.J. (01:41:14):
Okay.

Blake (01:41:15):
I find God present within that.

T.J. (01:41:17):
Yeah.

Blake (01:41:20):
But I was you you know, I I was listening to anything and
everything. Who else?

T.J. (01:41:30):
I would imagine, you know, with your secular work
traveling, you probably werereally punching the buttons or
turning the dial to to find newmusic, talk radio.

Blake (01:41:44):
Yeah.

T.J. (01:41:45):
Whatever it is. Yeah.

Blake (01:41:45):
I was one of those guys that rode around with the with
the the big binder full of CDstoo. Okay. You know? Yeah. The
kids listening won't rememberthose big binders for those of
us that had to remember the bigbinder where you had to flip the
pages, and pull the CD out, andthrow the CD in the player, and
listen.

(01:42:06):
And it's just music brings somuch there's so much truth
hidden within it, and I don'tlike a song unless it's got 3 or
4 layers.

T.J. (01:42:14):
Mhmm. Okay.

Blake (01:42:17):
That's that's that's my thing. If it's just about
surface level stuff, then Idon't really care for it. Even
if it's catchy and got a goodgot a good beat and you can
dance to it as they used to sayon American Bandstand. That's
not for me.

T.J. (01:42:31):
Well, sometimes, it takes time for that song to be heard
for what it really is.

Blake (01:42:37):
Absolutely.

T.J. (01:42:38):
So what may be new, superficial today may be deep
and meaningful tomorrow.

Blake (01:42:44):
That's right. That's right.

T.J. (01:42:47):
Kinda like our conversation today. Maybe some
will find it superficial andsilly. 2 guys talking about
faith. Maybe somebody else willcome along and find it deep and
meaningful.

Blake (01:43:00):
I hope so. I think that's the point that we have. That's
the point I'm always after. I'malways after a story that has
depth for people who have earsto hear. Mhmm.
I I think that's the Jesus'whole parable thing. Right?
That, oh, that's a great story.Oh, that's great. That means

(01:43:23):
this or that.
Oh, does it really? Dig deeper.There's more and more and more.
That was, again, back toseminary, back to the learning
about, well, how would thepeople who first hear heard this
hear it? They're not going tohear it with my 21st century
ears or 20th century because I'mold, ears.

(01:43:49):
They they would have heard itvery differently. And to and to
slide myself into that set ofears, and then hear it
differently, hear it new, that'sthat's the eternal work. And I
think it's true of everything.We we do and say.

T.J. (01:44:12):
And the inverse is true as well. So to hear it with 21st
century ears as well, how willthis biblical text that is
literally eons old be heard inthe 21st century For those who

(01:44:32):
are gathered in in that place ofworship or may listen to it
later or from a digital device,you can hear it differently. And
I think our past informs how wehear as well. I think for those
that are leading retreats,devotions, bible studies, Emmaus

(01:44:56):
walks, and even worshipservices. Good students of the
scripture will try to think ofthose pairs of ears and how they
can hear that good news.

Blake (01:45:16):
Yeah. And that and and, ultimately, that is the good
news. The good news has to bepreached. We have to find a way
to get beyond everything elseand get to the core of what that
good news is.

T.J. (01:45:32):
Yeah. I can find bad news pretty easily.

Blake (01:45:36):
Absolutely. At times, I think there's so many people
that are focused on it. They'refocused on the bad news. And I'm
like, we're supposed to betelling them the good news. And
if we're not, what are we?

T.J. (01:45:53):
Yeah. Yeah. Blake, I've enjoyed getting to know you
better, enjoyed thisconversation. I've enjoyed, you
being willing to revisit theidea of having this faith
conversation and to hear yourfaith journey, hear how god has
worked in your life. Like Isaid, it's been probably 3 3 and

(01:46:18):
a half years in the making.

Blake (01:46:21):
Yeah. I don't know if anybody was

T.J. (01:46:24):
I don't know if anybody was waiting on it beyond me. But
I would

Blake (01:46:29):
I'm sure they weren't. But maybe maybe there's somebody
out there that'll hear this.Mhmm. And they'll find that
depth. Just find a way to leanin to search for that next
footprint. Hang tough. Let godchange you. All those things.

(01:46:52):
Yeah. Thank you for look. Thankyou for allowing me to come back
on after all this time. This hasbeen really good.

T.J. (01:47:01):
Thank you for listening and supporting Cumberland Road.
I have felt and heard your lovefor me and what Cumberland Road
is trying to accomplish. Toclose, here are some words from
Bruce Lee, martial artist,actor, and some might say,
philosopher. The successfulwarrior is the average man with

(01:47:26):
a laser like focus. Thanks forlistening.

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Blake Stephens - A Long Arduous Journey

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Blake Stephens - A Long Arduous Journey