Brian Gibson - I Am Still Here

Reverend Brian Gibson writes:
"My name is Brian Gibson.  I am sixty years old and have been married to Michelle for 32 years.  We met on July 4th of 1992 and were married on September 12th of 1992.  We have three children Adam, Kevin, and Annalise.  We also have four grandchildren Haley, Hagen, Gabby, and Amelia. 

My daughter, Annalise, was the catalyst in my wife and I returning to church.  She was friends with Drew Edwards, son of Joey Edwards, and asked if we could go to her dad’s church.  We attended on that Sunday and our faith journey began.
I began seminary at the age of fifty.  My first professor, Steve Parrish walked in with long hair and sandals and a notebook the size of two Bibles.  Introduction to the Old Testament was begun.  
During my spiritual walk, my wife lost her mother and I lost my brother and mother.  I also lost a great deal of my eyesight to a disease known as optic neuritos.  Those stumbling blocks led me to almost end my faith walk.  If it had not been for Tiffany McClung, Barry Anderson, and Courteney Pace, I would have closed the book on the calling God has told me to take.  I am also grateful the strength my family gave me and continues to give me to this very day."

Music is provided by Pierce Murphy, Caldera Blue. 
Source:  https://www.freemusicarchive.org/music/Pierce_Murphy/through-the-olive-branches/caldera-blue
Comments: http://freemusicarchive.org/
Additional comments:  modifications made to shorten and loop song for introduction and closing of podcast.
Copyright Attribution and License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Episode Transcript

T.J. (00:02):
You are listening to the Cumberland Road, where I have
conversations about one's faithimpacting their daily life. I'm
your host, TJ Malinovsky. Thefollowing is a faith
conversation with Brian Gibson,a Cumberland Presbyterian
minister serving in Memphis,Tennessee. This is the first

(00:27):
time I have sat down with Brian.He shared with me his
extraordinary journey. A fewyears ago, he lost his vision,
and this occurred in the middleof his graduate studies as he
was preparing for ministry.Brian shares how he is
overcoming these challenges. Itis a journey of not giving up

(00:51):
and having faith and having astrong circle of support in your
family and friends. I learnedthat losing his vision is a part
of who Brian is, but it is notwho Brian is. I hope you are
inspired by Brian's journey as Iam. So enjoy this faith

(01:12):
conversation with Brian Gibson.
Brian, thank you for joining meon the podcast. This is, the
first time that we've been ableto sit down and and have a
conversation. We have been inthe same room together in
different situations in thepast, but we've never conversed.

(01:37):
And, so I'm looking forward tothe conversation that we're
gonna have today.

Brian (01:42):
Yes, sir. Me too. Thank you very much for this
opportunity.

T.J. (01:45):
So we were talking off mic. One of the questions I had
for you as we were trying to getacquainted was, have you always
lived in the Memphis area? Sohow about we start there?

Brian (01:56):
Okay. I was I was born in Memphis. I've parents were my
mom was actually from a smalltown called Bannoye,
Mississippi, and my dad was fromhere. I've lived here, all my
all my life except for a fewshort years when we lived in

(02:16):
Alabama where I worked forBruno's. And, because I've all
my work experience comesthrough, the grocery industry.

T.J. (02:26):
Okay. So was, I'm I'm gonna speak over you for just a
minute, but Bruno's is a grocerystore or grocery chain?

Brian (02:32):
Grocery store. Yes.

T.J. (02:33):
Okay.

Brian (02:35):
I was a a co manager and was for for a short time, I was,
also a store manager when mystore manager had a heart
attack. So I ran the show whilehe was out with all of that.

T.J. (02:53):
One of the first jobs I had as a teenager was working in
a grocery store, and, I reallyenjoyed it. And I worked the
evening shift, So a lot of thepeople that I work with were
around my age. And, we we allwent to different schools
because I lived in a in a largercity at the time. And, so it was

(03:15):
really neat. I got to make newfriends and, you know, you you
earn some money, and you learnedhow to bag groceries, and and
stock shelves, and order.
I mean, I did all thosedifferent things. And but you
also learn a lot about people aswell. And as a teenager, that
was pretty formative for me.What would be some of the

(03:38):
takeaways for you, Brian, youknow, in the grocery industry?

Brian (03:44):
First thing is, well, one one big thing is there's always
something to do, whether it'shelping someone find something
on the shelf or whatever. Butthe biggest thing is, it helps
you have patience. Some peoplewill give you some very strange
requests sometimes, and you haveto do what they ask. And

(04:07):
sometimes people, don't realizethat you're a person too and
that, that it needs to whetheryou're 16 or in the in your
thirties, it's just people needto work with each other, I

(04:29):
guess.

T.J. (04:31):
Yeah.

Brian (04:32):
I know one of the biggest things that that was going on at
the time, we were transitioningfrom paper to plastic, and, that
was that was a fun very funissue.

T.J. (04:47):
Yeah. I would imagine so because for a 100 years, the
grocery industry, you know,things were put in bags, paper
bags. And even the way that youpackage and put the items in a
paper bag is very different thanin a plastic bag.

Brian (05:07):
Yes. In terms

T.J. (05:07):
in terms of weight, the thing I'm a go back a bit. So
we'll we'll get to, your faithand stuff like that. But with
the paper bag, which is arectangle shape, you know, you
could almost for me, when I wasbagging, it was almost like a
puzzle. So, you know, how do youevenly distribute the weight,

(05:28):
within the bag, you know, andput things in there. You know,
things that aren't gonna becrushed.
And and, and then paper reallyI'm sorry. Plastic really kind
of transforms on, it's no longera puzzle. It's all about, like,
just sheer weight of what youcan put in a plastic bag.

Brian (05:49):
Oh, yeah. Very much. That's that's true. But, I think
but the biggest thing that Ilike I said, that I took away
was was patience. Yep.
Because everybody is isdifferent. Nobody's the same,
and everybody wants their theirway. And that's just what you

(06:10):
have to do because that's yourjob at that time.

T.J. (06:14):
You said that you worked it was Bruno's. Right? Was that
a Yes, sir. Small, like a familychain grocery store, or was it a
big conglomerate?

Brian (06:24):
Bruno's was a really big store, grocery chain in Alabama.
They were all over the state andand outside of it just a little
bit. They, at one time, they hadall of their well, not all of
their but most a lot of theirexecutives, were in a plane

(06:50):
crash, and most of them passedaway. And it really took a big
it was a big impact on this onthe grocery on that chain. And,
they tried to make it, but itwas, it was just too hard, I I
assume, because they lost, someintegral people that that we

(07:11):
needed.

T.J. (07:14):
How did you get into this vocation in the young adult
years of your life?

Brian (07:22):
Into Grocery. Grocery or to At the grocery?

T.J. (07:27):
Yes, sir.

Brian (07:29):
It was, I turned 16 on February 2nd, and the first
thing I did was, go get mylicense. And then I went to the
nearest grocery store because Iknew, that's where my friends
worked. And I said to put in anapplication and then kept,

(07:51):
begging them for a job, andfinally, I got one. So that's
that's and I pretty much stayedin the grocery industry from
from then to my older years.

T.J. (08:04):
You were telling me off mic that you went from Bruno's
to Costco. And Costco, I amfamiliar with a little bit. Tell
me about that transition from 1grocery industry to, well,
really kind of a warehouseindustry.

Brian (08:23):
That was, that was a little bit different. It excuse
me. Most because you have to youhave to pay to shop there. Mhmm.
And that was a big transitionfor me that these people all of
these people are paying arepaying to be in here.
From there, it, the differencewas it was extremely busy. It

(08:48):
was, how things were werestacked, how things were
stocked, how and the differencein, I wanna say showmanship, how
they presented the the goods wastotally different. It would be a
big box of something out thereinstead of you taking everything
out of the box and putting it onthe shelf. It was one big box.

(09:11):
Mhmm.
From there, it was, not so muchof of you having to use a
thought process, of of what youthought would be best, but but
someone else in in a differentcity said this is where we want
this. And, of course, the reasonwould be that's the manufacturer

(09:33):
paid for that spot. And that wasthat was another big thing I had
to transition from was making myown decisions what to put on an
end cap to somebody saying, hey.They paid for that spot, so
that's where we need to have it.Yeah.
Even That was big.

T.J. (09:50):
Yeah. I guess so. Even if it was, maybe not a high ticket
item or a seasonal item or someof the some of the variables
that you may have had inprevious work where you wanted
to showcase it on an end cap,this was paid floor space. And
Yes, sir. Your input was notneeded.

Brian (10:13):
Right. Well, I could do it, but it wouldn't make a
difference. Okay. And then well,there's one other thing. In the
in the grocery business, we werebig on tie ins, like, maybe
where you have some grapes, mixin some cheese with it, or, in

(10:35):
the meat department, have astack of, hamburger buns or
hotdog buns and that kind ofthing.
There are no tie ins in in withCostco. It's just that one thing
and that's it. So that movingaway from, hey, something has to
be tied in with this to this isjust this is all that's here is

(10:55):
was was different.

T.J. (10:57):
It is a bit jarring as a shopper, when you're in kind of
those, warehouse membership clubplaces where one aisle you can
be looking at edible productsand then the very next aisle
could be tires or an electronic.And Yep. So there really is not

(11:20):
much, at least as a shopper frommy viewpoint, there really isn't
much of a transition. It can bevery stark as compared to a
grocery store where you may gofrom produce, fresh produce to
canned produce, to, you know,box items. And then it sort of

(11:43):
makes a little bit of sense.
Even if you've never been inthat grocery store before,
there's still kind of anexpectation of paper products,
and maybe grapes don't aren'tgonna be found on the same
aisle. Maybe not even onadjoining aisles.

Brian (12:01):
Right.

T.J. (12:02):
And in those larger stores that cater to a wide range of
needs, which is a cool thing, isjust harder to kind of navigate
because there didn't appear tobe any type of rhyme or reason
of why these things aretogether. Why are there
televisions on the end cap whereyou also buy bread? I don't see

(12:24):
the correlation between those 2.

Brian (12:27):
That was that was one of my big things. I said this
doesn't make sense, and theywere like, well, we appreciate
your opinion, but this is whatgoes here. So but, there were
customers that would say thesame thing. So Mhmm.

T.J. (12:43):
I'm sure there business. Yeah. I'm sure there are studies
out there that would countereverything that, we have just
discussed in terms of movingYeah. Moving products. But from
an outsider's point of view or ashopper's point of view, I just
don't see the rhyme or thereason.

Brian (13:02):
Well I I didn't either.

T.J. (13:06):
So we've talked about your your vocation, your your secular
work, in, you know, your youngadult years. And, how does your
Christian faith and your walkand your journey plug into your
family life during this timeperiod and your work life and,

(13:28):
you know, even your leisurelife, were you a regular church
goer? Were you, active in theChristian community? Or how did
that all work out for you,Brian?

Brian (13:42):
Well, let me let me, go back a little bit. When I was
when I was young, I we didn'tfamily wise, we did not go to
church very much. Mhmm. Sosaying that I knew that I knew
who God was, and I knew whoJesus was. But as far as my
knowledge after that, I didn't Ididn't really have anything.

(14:07):
We would well, at least my momand I, we would try to find
churches and you know, ofcourse, we would go to the huge
churches that were here inMemphis and are still in and are
still here, and I was like, I Idon't know anybody. Even if I
did know somebody, would I seethem here next week? Meaning

(14:31):
that it's so big, how could Ifind anybody that I know? So
after a while, we because of joband having to work on Sundays as
part of my prerequisite, I hadto we just stopped going. We've,

(14:56):
we've soon my daughter, when wemoved to the house we're in now
in Lakeland, Joey Edwards livedright around the corner from us,
and his son, Drew, and mydaughter, Annalise, and him were
friends.
And Annalise came on and said,kid, can we go to Joey's church?

(15:20):
Now we we've been to, you know,numerous churches and excuse me.
And, just weren't finding aconnection. Mhmm. And we walked
in to that church, and, ofcourse, Joey was there.
Annalise was glad to see Joeyand Andrew and And and

T.J. (15:42):
let me

Brian (15:42):
France and Let me let

T.J. (15:44):
me interrupt you just for a minute, Brian, just for
context. So reverend JoeyEdwards is a Cumberland
Presbyterian minister. And andhe was serving a church, at that
time. And then his son and yourdaughter were friends. And so
this is just for context, thisis leading into your

(16:05):
introduction or reintroductioninto the faith community.
Alright. Go ahead. I just wantedto give a context.

Brian (16:11):
It's it's important because, it, but there's another
part that I didn't I didn'tmention, and I'm and I'm sorry
about that. We were to go back alittle bit before that, my
daughter was in the car with us,and we were driving down I 40.
And my daughter, Emily, said,hey. Look. It's the church with

(16:35):
the three t's.
And my dumb wife and I looked ateach other and said, we've we've
got to find a church becausethat's just we're messing up.
It's our fault. It's not hers.It's it's our fault.

T.J. (16:48):
Oh, okay. So she is no. Correct me if I'm wrong, but let
me fill in the the gaps here. Soalong I forty, if if you are in
the Memphis area, there is alarge church called Bellevue
Baptist Church. And they havethese very tall crosses that can
be seen from the interstate.

(17:09):
The church is right along Iforty. And so you and your
family happened to be in the carone day, and she was referencing
those crosses as lowercase t's?

Brian (17:20):
Yes, sir.

T.J. (17:21):
Okay. Alright.

Brian (17:23):
So my wife and I looked at each other and said that's
just that's not acceptable.We're we have to make a change.
Mhmm. Now that's how we moveforward into going to Joey's
church. We said we gotta find achurch.
So we started, we started goingto, Joey Evers Church, and we'd

(17:45):
liked it very much. And at thattime also was the young lady
that was his associate pastor.Britney Meeks was there, and she
was so good with all the kidsand doing things with them. And
she was so good with that, wedecided to keep to keep going.

(18:12):
Now excuse me.
I'm getting over cold. I didn'tagain, because I didn't attend
church anywhere very much. Ididn't I was not familiar with
the different doctrines thatdifferent denominations have. I

(18:33):
didn't even think about it, tobe honest with you. It was it
was church.
Mhmm. But, so we we startedgoing to the church, and it was
when I was we were sitting inour spot in the church where
because, you know, everybody endup coming to Presbyterian has a
church has a seat. And ifsomebody's sitting in the seat,

(18:55):
then they have to they have tomove. I'm just kidding. But, so
we were sitting in our spot,and, I just felt this this, this
tug, you know, with, hey.
This is what you're supposed tobe doing. And I said, no.
There's there's there's no way Ican do that. I I I fought it. So

(19:20):
after a little bit, it kind ofit I don't wanna say it went
away completely, but it itsubsided.
So, my brother passed away, andthis is all included. My
brother, passed away. And, inthat passing away, I said, well,

(19:42):
I'm gonna do is is, is, funeral.And Joey said, okay. I'll be
right here if you need me.
And, I went through it, and Iand I knew that there was a part
of the Bible somewhere whereit's when it dealt with time. So

(20:04):
I I chose Ecclesiastes, Ibelieve it's chapter 3, the time
where I went through it. And atthe end, Joey said, you look
like a pastor up there today.And I was like, wow. So I talked

(20:25):
to Joey, and Joey said, I said,I think I wanna become a pastor.
What do I need to do? And hesaid, well, you have to go to
seminary. Now remember at thistime, I'm I'm 50 years old. I
graduated from the University ofMemphis in 88. I was thinking
back to school.

(20:47):
Gosh. I'm working I'm working afull time job. I mean, how can I
go back to school and work afull time job? Mhmm. And, and
it's important again to mentionfrom to say that, I I didn't
know that much about churchexcept God and how to treat

(21:08):
people and who Jesus was.
And so the 1st class I took toease into it was a introduction
to Old Testament with SteveParish. Now I I know nobody
knows him, but I want you topicture a a man walking into
class with long hair, a niceshirt, jeans, and sandals.

(21:35):
Didn't matter what what time ofyear it was, whether it was
freezing outside or not, Stevehad on his sandals. And when he
came in with his notes, I lookedat I looked at his binder, and
he had 2 huge binders. And hesaid we have 13 weeks to go
through all of this right here,so we need to get started.
And I didn't I that's when Irealized that I know absolutely

(22:00):
nothing. And, I made it through.

T.J. (22:05):
What was your, first impression when, doctor Parrish
walked into the classroom? Didhe, subvert your expectations of
what a graduate studiesprofessor would look like?

Brian (22:22):
Well, if if you watch movies, in one way, yes, but it
wasn't really it wasn't reallymine, I guess. So I see him, and
I'm like and I see the binders,and I'm like, oh my gosh. But,
Steve was in and still is,amazing, amazing professor and

(22:45):
has such a passion for, for whathe does. But to keep moving
forward, when I I began I beganseminary, that was my first
class. And I thought there isI'm not gonna make it through.
I can't I just can't do this.Mhmm.

T.J. (23:05):
Because you're still carrying you're still carrying
your full time work.

Brian (23:10):
Yes, sir. And I said there's just there's no way.
Plus, I was having trouble with,with my my job that I had at
that time, letting me off to goto to go to school. Mhmm. And
the good thing is seminary didblock classes, which is it's one

(23:34):
time for one time a week for 3hours.
So we worked it out, but I wasdoing that. I was working, and I
was like, there's just I can'tget through this. I'm not gonna
be able to do it. And my wife,Michelle, who has been my
absolute rock through some a lotof issues, a couple more that

(23:59):
I'll let you know, who Icouldn't have made it through if
it hadn't been for her. She wasjust she was my absolute rock
through all of this.
She said, if god's put me putyou here, then this is where you
need to be. Don't don't don'tget so stressed. She said it'll
be I'll be okay. We'll getthrough it. And that's when she

(24:21):
said we'll we will get throughit, that helped me a lot,
because I knew it wasn't Iwasn't just on an island by
myself that that her and my son,Kevin, and my daughter, Emily,
were were there with me as well.
But, as I progressed through andand going through seminary, I

(24:43):
lost my mom and my daughter I'msorry. My wife lost her mom, and
I became very badly visuallyimpaired, due to a disease
that's called optic neuritis.But, now I can't

T.J. (25:03):
Tell me more. Tell me more. You you've laid a lot on
me here. So you lost yourbrother and then within a
relatively short period of time,you lost your mother and then
Michelle, your wife, also lost,her mother, one of her parents.

Brian (25:24):
Yes. Yes.

T.J. (25:25):
So you're going through a vocational change. You're trying
to answer a calling in a secondcareer. You've lost family
members. And then you haveyou're you're losing your
vision. So tell me more aboutthat, what the diagnosis is and

(25:46):
what it means and and how itaffected you.

Brian (25:50):
Well, optic neuritis is, it it affects your optic nerve.
I didn't even know I had ituntil I went to for an eye exam.
But what it necessarily does is,the optic nerve has insulation
on it. And if you look at apower cord on anything that you
have, it has a power cord. Andwhat the in when the brain talks

(26:14):
to your eyes, it sends thosewaves through your optic nerve.
But if you lose some of thatinsulation that's on your optic
nerves, then it it blinks someof that out. It loses through
the transition that you losesome of that, and it causes you
to lose your sight. But, it'sit's difficult. It's something

(26:36):
that can't that can't be fixed.All they can do is try to keep
it from getting worse.
And I do have some greatdoctors, both at Vanderbilt and
here in Memphis, that arefantastic.

T.J. (26:51):
So this loss loss of vision, is it, digression that
is quick? Is it gradual? And atwhat level of loss of sight does
that mean? Are you still able toread and drive? Just kinda walk
me through this, Brian.

Brian (27:08):
Okay. Reading, yes, I can do. I have a Kindle, and I can
enlarge the print on it thathelps me so I can see. Sometimes
I'm optic neuritis also causesblanks, so you don't you miss a
word and you think, well, thatdidn't make any sense. And you
go back and read it again, butthen you realize you missed a

(27:29):
word.

T.J. (27:30):
Oh, so it actually creates little blind spots. So Yes, sir.
You at times may not even seethe complete sentence or
paragraph because there'sblockages there.

Brian (27:42):
Yes, sir.

T.J. (27:43):
Oh, man.

Brian (27:44):
And, so I went one morning, I woke up, and I was
completely blind. And I said,Cheryl, I can't see. I gotta go
to the doctor. So the doctor,said that, yeah. Right now, he's

(28:04):
completely blind, but we'regonna try something, and,
hopefully, we can get it toregress a little bit, but if
not, then it's just where he'sat.
And I didn't I didn't like thatanswer. So

T.J. (28:19):
Well, that had to be terrifying to wake up. When you
went to bed, you were able tosee and then to wake up and not
be able to see. That'd befrightening, Brian.

Brian (28:31):
Yeah. It was. It very much was. It it, it scared me,
and she thought I was kidding atfirst. I said, I can't see.
And, the doctor, he said, well,right now, he is blind, and he
we're gonna try to get it back.And I got back a little bit of

(28:52):
it, but, of course, not all ofit. And I'm completely
completely blind in my left eyeand, partially blind in my right
eye. But, they got back a littlebit, and, because of because of
everything, I'm legally blind,and I can't drive. Well, I could

(29:15):
drive, but it just wouldn't begood for everybody.
Okay. And,

T.J. (29:20):
Well, if you don't if you're comfortable, let let's
live here for a few minutesbecause, you are an employee at
Costco and you're a seminarystudent and a husband and a
father and and many otherthings, Brian. And then this
hits you in the midst of all thethings that you're involved in.

(29:44):
You're trying to respond to acalling to ministry, which
requires you to read and towrite.

Brian (29:52):
Yes.

T.J. (29:53):
So what's going through your mind when you have this
diagnosis and then this sharpdecline in your sight?

Brian (30:03):
Well, I thought I, I called, Tiffany McClung, who was
the chaplain at seminary. Isaid, I think I'm gonna have to
to stop. She was also on me withour probation or care team,
which is something you have tomeet before regularly, when
you're becoming a pastor in thedenomination. And I said, I

(30:27):
don't think I can keep going.This is what's happening.
I guess I gotta quit. And shesaid, do you wanna quit? I said,
no. I don't want to, but whatelse what other choice do I
have? And, so excuse me.
And she said, well, give me giveme just a little bit of time and

(30:49):
before you make that decision.And, Tiffany McClung, she, sat
down with Barry Anderson, whowas I I believe he would be a
dean of students. This would behis title. I'm not really sure
what his title was, but he wasan excellent man who helped me

(31:11):
tremendously. And Courtney Pace,who also, excuse me, was a was a
professor.
And she said, and they all said,told me this is what we'll do.
You have as long as you need totake the class. So keep going

(31:34):
and don't stop. Okay. And we'llget you through this.
And her her words ofencouragement as well as Tiffany
and and Barry were weretremendous. And every time it
was are you getting everythingyou need in class? Is everything

(31:55):
going okay? What else can we doto help you? And it really
brightened up my my attitudethat, okay, I had a stumbling
block, but god has brought methrough it.
So I'm still here.

T.J. (32:11):
So instead of

Brian (32:12):
push through it.

T.J. (32:13):
Instead of being overwhelmed by discouragement,
and you would have every rightto be discouraged, there were
people in your life that reallywalked alongside you and helped
you.

Brian (32:30):
And, again, it like I said, my wife, Michelle, she was
she was truly my rock. And evenmy kids, as young as they were
at the time, they kept tellingme that they you can do it,
daddy. You can do it. Don'tdon't stop. And I I don't know
if you ever heard your yourchild encourage you before, but

(32:53):
especially if it's somethingthat's to me is as serious as
what I was wanting to do andwhat I was going through going
through is is a tremendousthing.

T.J. (33:04):
Well, Brian, Brian, how did this affect your faith, in
Christ? Because you you'reencountering obstacle after
obstacle, loss of familymembers, juggling work, decline

(33:25):
in your vision, and you stillhave this calling. I for me,
I've just for me, there would bemoments of anger and
frustration. And hopefully, I'dbe able to work through those.
But I and I I'm notinterjecting.
I'm not saying that you wereangry. But I am kind of curious,

(33:46):
you know, were there moments ofanger? Like, man, you have this
calling and yet this ishappening. How do I overcome
these things? So, again, circleback around.
I've rambled a bit. How did thisimpact your faith, this life
changing event?

Brian (34:06):
Well, it was, to be honest, yeah, I was I was upset.
I was, I said, god, why did youcall me into this and then put
me through all of this to whenI'm trying all I'm trying to do
is to spread your word. Mhmm.And it was through a lot of a

(34:27):
lot of prayer and a lot of, alot of friends outside like like
Joey. Mhmm.
There's some people I have a lotof respect for. Joey is is
definitely one of them who keptwho kept me, kept going. They
kept me saying it's everything'sgonna be okay. We're gonna get

(34:48):
through this. And I I go I I saya lot about we, but it's not it
wasn't you or you were gonna getthrough this.
It was we are gonna get throughthis. So when we say we, it's I
I feel okay. I'm not the onlyone that has to do this. I have
a I have a group that's gonnahelp me. Mhmm.
And sometimes I go back and Ilook at, you know, the disciples

(35:11):
and some of the things that theythat they went through, and yet
they were they still stood withJesus. And, except for the
Easter time, but they stillRight. Still still stood with

(35:32):
Jesus. And, that that's it's,it's having friends. It's having
encouragement.
It's having, you can do this,and we're here with you. So
you're not alone.

T.J. (35:46):
Right. There there's something powerful in knowing
that, you're not alone in theshouldering of burdens and
changes in life, however sudden,to not be overwhelmed by those,
and having and I think that'smaybe one of the things that

(36:09):
makes the Christian community,the faith community unique,
compared to other communitiesand that we can be a part of and
circles that we are a part of ishaving people that we know and
maybe even making new friendswho, again, are able to walk
alongside of us sharing thoseburdens and to alleviate some of

(36:34):
the pains that come with life.

Brian (36:39):
Yeah. That's that was incredible because, I mean, even
when I went to class atseminary, it was if Barry was
there, then he would force me tothe elevator. If doctor Pace was
there, then she would help me,because I don't know if you
people are either you have towalk the stairs. You can take

(37:00):
the elevator. And the mainbuilding is the only one that
has an elevator, and the otherones have stairs.
But, it's just having somebodyto to be with you and taking the
journey with you and upliftingyou and helping you and praying
with you, I think, is one of thebiggest ones that that would

(37:23):
happen. And my wife would say,we need we need we just need to
pray, and it was just that wasjust tremendous. When you feel
that power of, of knowing I knowI've mentioned some people, but
knowing that I'm still here, I'mjust god god says I'm I'm still

(37:48):
here. I just maybe it was a testto see how bad I wanted it. Was
I doing it for the rightreasons?
Mhmm. Was I doing it just to geta master's degree or or
something like that? And I thinkas strange as it sounds, it was
it was God saying, do you do youwant this? You're still my

(38:13):
child, and I still love you. Butif this is not what you want,
then here's your here's yourout.
I've given it to you. And

T.J. (38:21):
Brian, this experience, I I should have mentioned this
earlier or asked you earlier, isthe time frame on this. We're
we're talking about just a fewyears ago. Correct? What what
year were you diagnosed withthis, eye disease?

Brian (38:37):
Well, in the first in the my left eye, it occurred, about
10 years ago in my then when itwent into my right eye when I
was like I said, when I woke upand I was blind, that was just a
few years ago. It was I hadabout 2, two and a half years

(38:59):
left in seminary, and it took mea while because I like I said, I
was working a full time jobMhmm. As well as working, trying
to go to school and then doinghomework and then writing papers
and and doing that kind ofthing. But, it it was very it
was a very short amount of timewhen all of this happened. Mhmm.

(39:21):
And, of course, you know, thecloser you get to graduation is
where a lot of meat comes fromin in school. So trying to to do
that and and get through was wastough.

T.J. (39:38):
Right. So as a student, as things got more intense and the
workload became more intense andthe responsibilities became more
intense is when your health isis, for the time period at
least, declining. So when youneed your body and your senses

(39:59):
the most is when they were kindof fighting against you moving
forward.

Brian (40:06):
Yes. There was you know, you you think about things of,
in people. And in seminary,there was a young lady, her name
was Dusty Luthy, who was apastor in Denton, Texas now, and
she would, she would help me outout with my notes. Because when

(40:31):
I tried to write, even now, if Ijust tried to write something,
it would either go up or it goesdown, or I can't read it at all
because it looks like she canscratch. Mhmm.
But, she would give me her notesand let me run them off, and,

(40:53):
and that helped me. And that'swhy I'm saying that, it wasn't
just me going through it. It wasit was people that were there
that, hey. What do you need fromus? And and she was she was
awesome in that.

T.J. (41:06):
Man, you had an you had an amazing circle of support.

Brian (41:11):
Yeah. I did. I mean, I did. I mean, it was it was
fantastic. And it was alsoaround this time where where, I
met well, I've met him before,but I've met Andy McClung, who
is who to me is one of the mostoutstanding people I know when

(41:34):
he's trustworthy and honest andand those kind of things.
So that's he's also one of theones that that that helped me
through it. He would I wouldwhen I do it when I did a
sermon, you know, I I couldn'tread my notes, so I was trying
to do it memorize it, I guess.Mhmm. And, I would mess up and

(42:06):
frustrate myself and because Iworked hard on I would work so I
worked hard on the sermon, and Iwould lose my place and then all
that, and was worried thatpeople thought that I hadn't
prepared well enough. I did notprepare well enough, and I put
more pressure on myself.
And he is one of the ones thatsaid, God's given you the words

(42:26):
to speak. Don't worry about it.So he said, like, he says

T.J. (42:33):
So when you're frustrated, and and I've had those moments
for different reasons of, youknow, for, preaching. And it
kind of comes unraveled. Andhaving that unraveling, loss of
train of thought, loss of notes,what sounded good earlier in the

(42:56):
week in preparation wasn'tcoming out verbally in the way
that I wanted to. And to havethat in front of a group of
people who are facing you is,real humbling experience to say
the least

Brian (43:11):
of Yes.

T.J. (43:12):
Of trying to especially when you're trying to share the
greatest news that I have heardand read about. And then you
would just want to convey thatin a way that could be heard and
digested and understood and getmad at myself for being the very
obstacle that I didn't want tobe.

Brian (43:36):
Yeah. It would, you would end up here you would hear
people say, hey. Good job. Goodsermon. I got something out of
it, and you're thinking toyourself that I appreciate the
words, but, no, you didn't.
I mean, it was it was awful.

T.J. (43:50):
So I wonder that every time. I wonder that every time.
Yeah. I'm I think we can be ourown worst critic.

Brian (44:00):
Yeah. And, because it's it's difficult to spend that
much time preparing somethingand then having it all unravel
once only a few minutes into it,and you're like, man, you're
like, oh my gosh. I've still gotso much amount of time I'm

(44:22):
supposed to be up here. So

T.J. (44:24):
Yeah. Yeah.

Brian (44:24):
And it's, it was it was hard. I mean, it was hard. You
just have to say that I'm doingthe best I can, and I'll get
better. So

T.J. (44:36):
And I think authenticity goes a long way. You know?
You're up there. Maybe maybe asimilar career would be like a
comedian a comedian on open micnight. And you just get up there
and you bomb.
But there's still somethingredeeming, I think, of what
you've alluded to, Brian, isbeing authentic in in who you

(45:00):
are. I mean, we are imperfectpeople, trying to convey ideas
and thoughts and a theology thatis intended to bring life to the
listeners. I'd I'd much ratherhear authenticity than a well
polished sermon. You know, I Iwant to hear and know the Brian

(45:25):
or whoever the speaker, thepreacher, the minister is, as
opposed to something as justwell rounded, well polished, you
know, going from point a topoint b, flawless, because my
life doesn't reflect that if I'mthe listener.

Brian (45:45):
Yeah. It's, it it's it's difficult to stand in front of
of people because you yousometimes notice body language,
and and that's you're thinking,okay. I'm really not doing well
because I'm I can see so and so,and now his arms are folded. And

(46:06):
I'm not I'm not doing well atall. So Yeah.
And it just it puts you put morepressure on yourself than you
need to.

T.J. (46:13):
And Right.

Brian (46:14):
Just because he's not getting some out of it, maybe
somebody else is or maybe my mydaughter is. That's I'm just
trying to reach people. So it,it it's it's it was diff it is
difficult. It continues to bedifficult too. Because,
basically, like I said, I haveto memorize it.

(46:35):
I don't I don't have theopportunity to look at my notes
and and say, okay, that's whereI'm at now. I mean

T.J. (46:42):
What little, tricks or techniques do you use to help
you in memorization?

Brian (46:51):
I go over it a lot. I go over it a whole lot, and I, will
go over it with my wife becausewe're empty nesters.

T.J. (47:00):
Mhmm.

Brian (47:00):
And we're I'll go over with my with my wife. And
sometimes I'll I'll go over itwith, my daughter, if she's
here, or my son and say, did youwhat do you get out of this?
What what are you hearing? And,of course, sometimes when you're
dealing with the younger youngercrowd, it's, attention span is

(47:25):
difficult. But, you can you cantell if if they get something
out of it.
What did you hear? And I don'tcare if it's just a line, one
line Mhmm. Of, you know, like,we need or if my daughter says,
well, we just need to all havepatience. K. I'll talk to you
for 20 minutes, and, you you cancome out with we need to all

(47:47):
have patience.
I'll I'll take that. Mhmm. And,maybe my son will come out with
Kevin. We'll come out withsomething different, and, then
maybe my wife will hearsomething different. I'm like,
well, if y'all all got that,then I then I succeeded at what
my at what God was telling me todo.
So

T.J. (48:07):
That's interesting, Brian. So, really, you're getting
immediate feedback as you arememorizing the message that you
have crafted or prepared. So youcan tinker with it, in the
process of memorization. Boy,that you could really boil down

(48:27):
and and really have a tightmessage by doing that. For me,
I'd be terrified because you runthat, you know, the the
vulnerability because yourfamily is the one who love you
the most.
They also know, your weak pointsas well more better than anybody

(48:48):
else.

Brian (48:49):
Right. So I tried to explain it to somebody that, we
all know the Lord's prayer, butthey're because we've heard it
and we've said it so many daytimes. But if you if all of a
sudden you can't remember thatone that one word that you've
said so many times, the wholething falls apart. You're like,

(49:12):
what? And and all of a sudden,you're back on track, but it's
like doing that.
It's like when you when youmemorize something and you can't
remember words. Same thing witha song. Mhmm. If, there's a song
that you're singing a lot andall of a sudden, if that word
comes up, you're like, what doesthat work? What does that work?
What does that work again? Andit you feel like it all just

(49:33):
goes falls apart. But, that'sthat's what I do, and, I think I
get the message and have donethings that have helped me
through the people in thesupport network I have Mhmm. A

(49:55):
whole lot more than if I wasjust trying to do it by myself.
Because in the whole thing, youhave to have some humility and
and say, well, what did you get?
Mhmm. And sometimes if you get,I don't know what you were
talking about, then I know that,okay. I've got a lot of work to

(50:15):
do.

T.J. (50:18):
You have to go back to the study. Yep.

Brian (50:21):
And it was always remember this. I was Andy was
was my pastor, and it was oneSunday when I was preaching. And
and this is what I told him whenI mean humility. This is
something that that I mean. He,you know, he's he said, hey.
Hey. Why don't you wait aminute? And I'm like, okay.

(50:43):
Because everybody was leaving.He said, why don't you wait a
minute?
I said, sure. And, I said, well,how do you think I did? And he
said, well, how do you think youdid? I said, I don't think I did
very good. And his answer wasno.
No. You didn't. But this is whatwe need this is what we need to

(51:04):
work on. And, I was like, that'sawesome that somebody just
finally told me that, no. Youdidn't do very well.
And this is what you need to doto make it better Mhmm. Or to to
be more comfortable Mhmm. Or tojust preach from your heart
sometimes instead of trying toread what's on the paper. And,

(51:29):
you know, there's there's a lotof times I don't know where I
would be if it hadn't been forhim. So because he's the one
that really he kept me grounded.

T.J. (51:39):
That brute honesty, can be heard better, received better
from somebody that you trust andlove, even if it's painful in
the moment.

Brian (51:51):
Yeah. And that's you know what, it's so important because
how can you ever get better ifpeople are because people keep
telling you, oh, that was great.I got this out of it, and it was
fantastic. You're thinking,well, okay. I guess I'm doing
alright.
But when when somebody finallycomes and goes, no. That wasn't

(52:12):
very good. This is what you needto do. And, you know, and like I
said, if you don't wanna knowthe truth, don't ask Andy. So
but, because he is he is one ofthe most honest people I know.
Mhmm. And I just that's onereason I've learned so much
through him is because he'slike, this is what you need to

(52:35):
do. You don't need to I wouldn'the'll tell me. I don't even know
if I would say that, but if youwant to, that's fine. I'm not
gonna tell you not to.
Don't say it like that. Say itlike maybe say it like this.
Mhmm. And because sometimes, youknow, you get you get emotional.
And when you get emotional, itgets you say things you really

(52:58):
don't you didn't want to mean ordidn't want to say.
Mhmm. I'm a big big Alabama fanfootball fan, and I like
listening to to former coachSaban say, talk and because I
can pick up some things that hesays in a short snippet that

(53:19):
that means something to me. Andone time, he said, it's it's
good to have emotions, but it'sbad to be emotional because
being when you're emotional iswhen you make your mistakes. And
I've I've taken that I've takenthat to heart, to not let your

(53:39):
feelings overwhelm how smart youare, I guess, is what I'll say.

T.J. (53:45):
Yeah. That humility that you were referencing earlier.

Brian (53:51):
Yeah. Like I said, it's and it's and it's good when it
comes from people you know andpeople you trust. That's because
that's who your trend truefriends are is the ones that
that are fully honest with you100%.

T.J. (54:06):
Yeah.

Brian (54:07):
Because you're and there's nothing like a friend
that tells you that you'remaking a mistake, and you're
like, well, if he thinks I'mmaking a mistake, then, I must
be. So you it just it grounds itbrings you back to being
grounded, I think, is what iswhat a very good way to say it

(54:29):
is. Because sometimes we wanna,I guess, fly our way, but we
need somebody that's signed,pulls us back in, and says, hey,
stay on course. You're not oncourse.

T.J. (54:47):
Bron, we often reference our faith, our relationship with
god, and we tend to do it in thepast tense. What words would you
use to articulate your faith ingod, so others can hear it in
such a way that it that god isreal to you and is impacting

(55:15):
your decisions and formulatingthoughts and and helping you in
your actions. So for those whoknow Jesus as a name and kind of
on a peripheral like you hadreferenced earlier in our
conversation, how do you makethat alive and real for someone

(55:39):
who just has nominalinformation, maybe even
misinformation?

Brian (55:45):
It's, one one place where where the church sometimes makes
a mistake is, is only preachinggood things. You know? It's
always good. So to to to kind ofexplain that, let let me tell

(56:08):
you what. There's a friend ofmine who was in who was in the
hospital.
He was in a very bad caraccident. He leg was broken. Hip
was broken. His jaw was broken,a lot of other things, and
somehow he'd survived. And, Iknow he's a friend that doesn't

(56:29):
that doesn't go to church.
But when I when I was in theroom with him and was talking to
him, and his, of course, hisparents were there. And I said,
do you mind if I if I pray foryou? Say a prayer. And I prayed,

(56:52):
But during the prayer, I feltsomething. I don't know how to
because when you pray, that'swhen it's what's in your heart
is really coming out.
And so when I prayed for him, Ifelt something, and he

(57:14):
appreciated it. And he calls menow every once in a while and
wants me to do it do it againbecause he says it it helps him.
But the answer to be moreforward on that is, you're not
gonna go through life and andnot have pain and have setbacks

(57:38):
and not have, disappointmentsjust because you you you believe
in God. See, God never says thatit's gonna be easy, that this
world is gonna be easy. But whatI'm what I have to I'm trying to

(58:01):
figure out how to say thisexactly.
That is true, and you have tobelieve that that what God is
doing in you and for you is foris for the better. And, it it's

(58:24):
the place I find that mostdifficult to talk about is, is
when I'm at Mana House or I'mdealing with room in the inn.
And Mana House is a is ahomeless people that are
experiencing homelessness cancome and take a shower and then

(58:45):
get food may not food, getcoffee, get some toiletries, and
maybe a a shirt. And, you lookat you look at them, and then
you look at me. Well, I've I'vegot a house.
I've got food. I've got allthese clothes. I've got a car to
get me from where I'm going fromhere to here, but they don't

(59:09):
have anything. Some of them areliving on the street and and or
and you're like, why does whydoes this happen? And I say, I I
don't I just simply don't know,but it doesn't mean that God
doesn't love them.

(59:30):
And, that's where my faith is,has to be has to be strong Sure.
And and and just try to help thebest way I can. At Manna House,

(59:54):
I mean, you I've builtrelationships with some people.
There's a gentleman there whocomes every every day. We're
we're open Monday Thursday, buthe comes and he carries
everything he has with him.
I mean, every he's he's coveredin backpacks and all that. His

(01:00:18):
name is he's always told us hisname is Moses, and people will,
go to him and and and ask forhelp. And it's awesome to see
that my faith is is continuedthrough things like that. My
faith is continued when I seesomebody say, hey. Does anybody

(01:00:43):
have a have a coat I can usetonight?
It's gonna be cold. And one ofthe guys takes his coat off and
gives it to somebody else. Says,here you go. I'll be alright.
I've gotta I've gotta I'll bealright.
And see, that's where your faithis. Somebody that has so little,

(01:01:04):
but is willing to give up to meso much. Mhmm. So that's where
my faith is is so stronglyrenewed because I don't I don't
do man a house and, rooming theend to make myself feel good. I
do those things because that'swhat God has called me to do, is

(01:01:25):
to be a servant.
And those things, when you seepeople giving up what they have
when they don't have anything inthe first place, it's like, man,
that's that's God right there.That's God giving up something

(01:01:46):
so important as a coat soanother person can be warm. It,
it makes you wonder that man,would I would I do that? If I
was living on the street, wouldI give up my coat Mhmm. So
somebody else could be warm?
And it makes you know, it's it'sit and, again, it's just

(01:02:07):
humbling, and that that's it'sjust an amazing thing to watch.
So, yeah, that's those doingthose two things is is very,
very strong in helping me gothrough my faith. And I look at
what I'm going throughsometimes. I'm like, man, it's
nothing like what they whatthey're going through.

T.J. (01:02:29):
Mhmm. Yeah.

Brian (01:02:30):
It's nothing what I'm going through is nothing
compared to this person. So,yeah, that's where my faith is
is continually renewed.

T.J. (01:02:40):
Brian, what other ministries outside of the Manna
House and Room in the Inn, thatyou are involved in now that
you're ordained a CumberlandPresbyterian minister?

Brian (01:02:54):
Right now, those are the the 2 biggest, because like I
said, I have to have somebody todrive me. Mhmm. And my wife, she
works from home. She's atranscriptionist. And so she has
to work.
So it's it's those 2 are my mybiggest that I'm involved in

(01:03:16):
currently. Doesn't mean thatwon't change, but I those are
the 2 that I'm involved with themost currently.

T.J. (01:03:22):
Yeah. Yeah. Let's shift the conversation a little bit.
We talked about your faith.Let's talk about the Cumberland
Presbyterian Church.
So we have listeners toCumberland Road that are not
Cumberland Presbyterian. So,Brian, from your perspective and

(01:03:42):
from the encounters that youhave had, how would you describe
the Cumberland PresbyterianChurch to somebody who's never
heard of this littledenomination before?

Brian (01:03:54):
Well, the Cumberland Presbyterian Church is, like you
said, is just small smalldenomination that started in in
Dixon, Tennessee. And, throughthat, we've grown is to be a, I
would say we're all like a likea family. We, we're all very

(01:04:19):
it's I believe, the word iscommunal. We're all it's a big
community where I could, callanother pastor in in a different
area, and it would be like wewere old friends. Mhmm.
I think that's that's thebiggest. And our, of course, we

(01:04:43):
do have a doctrine, but it's notone that it's one that's still
still with still dealing withwith people and being a
community. We there are times wedisagree, but that doesn't mean

(01:05:09):
that, that person or that personis is worse than or better than
me. We have to, we're able towork through our problems, and
we're able to strengthenourselves through situations

(01:05:29):
that face us. Just because we'rea church doesn't mean we don't
face times and and trials andthings that that seem to hurt
us.
We we have to, just cometogether and make sure that what
people look at when they see usall the time is is that we are

(01:05:52):
God focused, that God is whowe're relying on. We're not
relying on, the words of thisperson or that person. It's just
remaining God focused, and we'renot all built the same, so we're
not all gonna think the same.We're not all gonna vote the
same way. We're not all gonnabelieve this is a sin and that's

(01:06:13):
not a sin.
We're not all gonna believe thatin in every aspect, but in the
end, we are God centered andthat we we love God and that we
want to to bring anybody anybodythat believes that into into our

(01:06:37):
church. And that's that's trulywhat I what I think as far as
Cumberland Presbyterians are, isthat we're just we're a big
we're just a big family and justas you know from sometimes going
to Thanksgiving dinners,families get into discussions

(01:06:58):
that seem to be really tough,but in the end you're still all
family. So it's, that's to me,that's, you know, small
nutshell, that would be what Iwould say that that we all are.
Mhmm. Mhmm.

T.J. (01:07:18):
Brian, for those listening to Cumberland Road, do you have
any books or movies or musicthat you would suggest that has
informed your faith andstrengthened your faith,
deepened it that, someone elsemay find encouraging and helpful
as well? Any books, movies,music?

Brian (01:07:44):
Well, with me, something that, that I do is I I kinda
look beyond the just thesurface. One of the of course,
the Bible is my, to me, is thebest book. So, another one that,

(01:08:04):
book that, and and I'll I'llexplain this. It there was a
book written by CharlesBeckwith, who was a general in
the military, and, it was calledInside Delta Force. Now that's
where I started really readingagain was when I read that, but

(01:08:25):
it's again, you have to lookbeyond the surface.
It's the, they build acamaraderie with each other.
They build a strong new policeof friendship. They build, and
they're watching each other'sback. Now see, that's what that
is, to me, is what Christianityis. Mhmm.

(01:08:49):
Is when you see somebodystraying off a little bit, You
you grab them by the hand andsay, come on back. You're you're
going the wrong way. Mhmm. WhenI movie wise, I think, one of my
favorite movies and my wife getsshe's like, I can't believe

(01:09:12):
you're watching this again, butit's, it's

T.J. (01:09:15):
called I'm already I'm already laughing. I'm already
laughing. Remember

Brian (01:09:19):
the Titans. Love I love that movie, but it's it's
because of what he did to bringthem all together.

T.J. (01:09:28):
Mhmm. Remember the Titans. I I haven't seen that in a long
time. That that's a footballmovie. Correct?

Brian (01:09:33):
Yes, sir. Yeah. And, it's just he brings he what he goes
through to make everyone sotight and to not look at each
other as as black and white, butto look to each other as people.

T.J. (01:09:49):
Mhmm.

Brian (01:09:49):
And that's what I'm talking about when you you can
watch the movie and not noticethat, or you can look at the
movie and or watch the movie andand say there's a there's an
underlying message here. Sothat's that's one of my absolute
favorite movies that I that Iwatch. Because of the age I grew

(01:10:13):
up in music wise, like BrandonHeath. I like all of Hillsong's
stuff. I'm trying to think ofsome of course, I like, Lauren

(01:10:34):
Daigle a lot.
I I I like to listen to peoplewho who seem to be speaking from
the heart. Mhmm. And I thinkLauren is awesome at that. My my

(01:10:54):
grandkids, they they listen to,my Emily and Emily's children,
Gabby and Amelia. They listen tobless the Lord, oh my soul.
And, they just, like, they willplay it over and over and over,

(01:11:16):
and I'm like, I could say,please stop playing that. Let's
listen to something else. Or Icould say, hey. I want them to
know that one. Mhmm.
So we'll sit and listen to it aslong as they want to. And it's I
want them to listen to that. Iwant them to have that that song

(01:11:38):
deeply entrenched in their headsso they know the Lord will bless
my soul and has blessed theirsoul. And that's what's so
tremendous about about books andmovies and and music and,

(01:11:58):
especially, I would say musicbecause because music has the
ability to trigger emotions. Ithas ability to trigger memories.
It has the ability to trigger afeeling you've feeling inside.
Even people that experiencedimension, all that somehow can

(01:12:26):
hear a song and remember it.Mhmm. So that's that's
tremendous to me that somethingthat seems that small can have
that kind of an impact onsomebody that is experiencing a
horrific disease such asdementia can and could even put

(01:12:47):
a small on her face. Right.
Right. So, yeah, those those aresome of my my favorite, my
favorite things. Another anotherbook that I that I really like
and it don't let the name of itthink that it's it's a different

(01:13:11):
kind of book. It's a it's afiction book, but it's called,
Lords of Discipline. And don'tdon't watch the movie because
the movie is awful.
But but the book is isfantastic. It's about, it's more
about what a young man goesthrough when he goes away to a

(01:13:31):
military college. Mhmm. And,it's in how he stays strong
through all of it. So it'sthat's another tremendous book.
But, the other night, we watchedthe sandlot. And to me, again,

(01:13:52):
the sandlot is, is another moviewhere everybody becomes such
such a tight knit group ofpeople and how they and I don't
wanna give away too much ifnobody's seen it, but they have
to, get back this specialbaseball that was, that, a young

(01:14:16):
man took from his dad that wassigned by Babe Ruth. And they're
playing with it, and he gets hitover a fence, and then that's
where the, everything reallystarts. But it's how tight knit
of a group have something justas, you know, trying to get back
a baseball.

T.J. (01:14:37):
Right.

Brian (01:14:37):
It's so important. And sometimes looking at that more
into the surface, that's wherewe need to always be. We need to
be getting back to God. Mhmm.And I I just take it as that
baseball that no.
It wasn't just a baseball. Itwas something that led to
something much bigger. And I'mlike, I'm gonna stop there. I'm

(01:15:01):
so I don't wanna ruin itanybody. I don't wanna be a
snorer.
But it's It is.

T.J. (01:15:05):
It's a good movie. You've got these, kids who they live in
the same area, sameneighborhood, and they're very
different, differentbackgrounds, but they come
together with one collectivemission. And it's a shared
mission. And and in process,they grow closer together.

Brian (01:15:26):
Very much. Yeah. That's why I like that movie so much.

T.J. (01:15:32):
Brian, you have an extraordinary journey, and I'm
privileged to be able to hear itand and for you to share it with
me today. And it's also given methe opportunity to get to know
you. Again, said this at thebeginning. This is the first
time that we've sat down andbeen able to talk together, and

(01:15:52):
I deeply appreciate it. Andyou're an inspiration to me to
not, even when life says, hey,discouragement can overtake.
You have shown me that, no. Youdon't have to let discouragement

(01:16:14):
overtake all your life. And andyou don't have to go very far to
find people who will join you inyour journey. I mean, I I think
that's very compelling for thefaith Christian faith community.
So, Brian, thank you for doingthis.

Brian (01:16:33):
Yes, sir. Thank you for having me.

T.J. (01:16:36):
Thank you for listening to this conversation with Brian
Gibson. Check out the otherguests to hear how their faith
is impacting their daily life.For this episode, I want to
close with a passage from thebook of Ecclesiastes. For
everything, there is a seasonand a time for every matter

(01:16:58):
under heaven. A time to be bornand a time to die. A time to
plant and a time to pluck upwhat is planted. A time to kill
and a time to heal a time tobreak down and a time to build
up a time to weep and a time tolaugh a time to mourn and a time

(01:17:20):
to dance a time to throw awaystones, and a time to gather
stones together a time toembrace, and a time to refrain
from embracing a time to seek,and a time to lose A time to
keep and a time to throw away. Atime to tear and a time to sew.

(01:17:44):
A time to keep silent and a timeto speak. A time to love and a
time to hate, a time for war anda time for peace. Thanks for
listening.