August 27, 2024 • 62 mins
Reverend Taylor Young is a 34 years old pastor of St. Luke Cumberland Presbyterian Church in Madison, Tennessee. He is a first generation Cumberland Presbyterian and graduate of Memphis Theological Seminary. Taylor and his wife are expecting their first child soon and can't wait for that new journey.
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Episode Transcript
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T.J. (00:03):
Welcome to the Cumberland Road, where I have conversations
about how one's faith impactstheir daily life, their
interactions with others, andtheir vocation. I'm your host,
TJ Malinowski. My guest thisepisode is Taylor Young. Taylor
(00:25):
is the minister at St. LukeCumberland Presbyterian Church
in Madison, Tennessee. In thisconversation, we talk about
parenthood, youth ministry, andthe resilience after a natural
disaster. Enjoy this phasedjourney with Taylor Young.
(00:52):
Taylor, thank you for joining meon the podcast. In a few months,
you will be a first time parent.Share some thoughts on what
parenting may look like for you.
Taylor (01:07):
So as we're recording this, it is about 3 months away.
I am due I mean, we are due. Mywife is due. Mid November.
Really, really excited.
My journey has been verytumultuous when it comes to
(01:29):
getting to this point in life,so I feel very happy. I won't
speak ill of anyone, but I willsay that I had a previous
marriage that ended, partiallydue to a difference in the
difference of opinion on wantingchildren, which was
heartbreaking. And so, my my nowwife, Lizzie, who is
(01:50):
spectacular, and I got marriedwhat I would consider a little
bit later depending on who youask. I did not anticipate having
my first child at 34. I thoughtI'd be a little bit younger,
but, I just can't stop beingthankful because there was a
time where I thought this wasn'tgoing to happen, and, we haven't
(02:11):
crossed the finish line yet.
You know, everything lookspromising. Maybe it seems
healthy. So I'm just excited,also scared. Scared about the, I
love sleeping. Anyone whoremembers me as a youth
volunteer or youth counselor atcamp knew I like to sleep, and I
know that's not a part of theprogram, but I think that'll be
(02:35):
well worth it.
T.J. (02:37):
Maybe this is a finish line in one way and a starting
line in another. You are aboutto begin a new relationship.
What do you think that newrelationship will look like?
Taylor (02:54):
Well, so I love kids to begin with, and I'm a big kid at
heart. I thought I was gonna beyouth minister forever,
honestly. So I'm excited aboutthe little, silly things. Like,
I still love Disney theme parks,and, having a a daughter come in
(03:15):
the world is a good excuse to goto do that more. I'm excited for
all the the little things.
I mean, I still watch cartoons,without a kid, so adding that in
will be great. That's all thefun stuff. I'm sure I will learn
to be less selfish, and I'm I'mready mentally to be in a less
(03:38):
selfish life, be in a lifethat's not as centered around my
wants, my ambitions. And I'm I'mI'm aware of that now. I'm sure
I'm not really aware of thattill I get into it, but
T.J. (03:50):
How much free advice from others have you received in
parenting?
Taylor (03:58):
Quite a bit. I I actually welcome it. It doesn't
bother me if somebody gives mesomething I don't agree with. So
I I like hearing people'sperspectives. You know?
I was I was raised with a withan iron hand. You know? I I got
spanked. I got all those things,and that's really not the
journey we're gonna go on withour kid, we think. But, you
(04:21):
know, I've had someone say, oh,you gotta discipline them early
and discipline them hard and,you know, agree with discipline
but maybe not hitting them.
And I think that's what theywere implying, and it didn't
bother me. I you know, I'lllisten to anybody. I the the
reality is I think it isimportant to listen to people
who've been down a road youhaven't been on before, and take
(04:43):
what you think is of value andleave what you don't think is of
value. And I think that's truewith so many scenarios, not with
just parenting. You know?
And I'm sure my ideas now willbe very different in a year and
in 2 years and so on and soforth.
T.J. (04:59):
Adding another person to the family brings a new
perspective, a new voice, a newpoint of view. And these same
perspectives and voice and pointof view also comes with
questions.
Taylor (05:14):
Well, I've given my wife plenty of practice with that. I
already asked her the samequestions over and over, so you
know?
T.J. (05:25):
Let's talk about your childhood. What would you want
others to know?
Taylor (05:33):
So I I think mine was pretty good. I mean, I I don't
think I have a, I think my tellis valuable, but, it may not be
as exhilarating as some. Ireally wasn't raised in a church
per se. I was raised with 2parents who believed Christian
(05:53):
beliefs, did not attend church,were had no offense to it, but
they just didn't wanna go. Youknow, they mom kinda gave me
some surface level idea of yougotta pray to God.
God is real. Jesus is real. And,honestly, to this day, I've
never questioned that, at leastthat fact of it. You know, I I
(06:15):
was, you know, just into sillythings. You know?
I liked I was in the nineties. Iwas a Power Rangers kid, you
know, and I grew up onprofessional wrestling and still
love professional wrestling tothis day, all the fun things.
But I, I came about faiththrough a lot of little,
(06:37):
instances with friends. Myconnection to the Cumberland
church actually started with agirl who I thought was very
pretty at my middle school whoinvited me to the youth group
across the street, which wasTusculum Cumberland
Presbyterian, with TylerSpradling, who was became my
(06:57):
youth minister. That girl had noimpact in me, by the way, which
is fine, but I found a communitythat I really enjoyed and a
youth minister I still think alot of to this day.
And I was still kinda new toChurch World. I knew of God, but
(07:17):
Church World really it was weirdto me. You know, I went to VBS a
few times. I thought my earlyperception of church people is,
wow. These are really strictpeople.
You know, they're they're notinto my my shenanigans, and that
that may have been amisconception, but perception is
reality. And Tyler was the firstperson I thought, he can build
(07:42):
my shenanigans just fine. So,you know, maintained my
relationship there, asked a lotof questions. I was so intrigued
by everything. I loved askingquestions and discussing.
Discussing things is it's it'swhere I I I grow. You know, he
said I threw him off because Ilearned some words in school. I
(08:02):
said, what's the differencebetween consubstantiation and
transubstantiation? If you couldimagine just a youth kid asking
you that in the middle of alesson. Yeah.
So, you know, I I went on and,made the decision. Of course,
not raised in a church, wasn'tbaptized at a young age, so I
made the decision at 15 to getbaptized. Still being relatively
(08:22):
new to Church World, I also hada Church of Christ friend, very
one of those Church of Christfriends who, I was sleeping over
at his house, and he said, hey,man. I I just really don't want
you to go to hell. We're goingto church in the morning.
Do do you think you wanna getbaptized there just so I can
make sure? And so I did. Sotongue in cheek, I tell people,
you know, I'm covered on bothends, there. So I was poured in,
(08:48):
poured on, and then I wassubmerged in the, Church of
Christ. But, yeah, faith as akid was just I think I was just
so fascinated, by God, by thehigher existence, by a a life
that's more meaningful than theone in front of us.
(09:10):
You know? So I I always latchedon to that, and it was the only
thing that made sense at 17years old, wrapping up high
school, applying to colleges forI had no idea what, and hearing
a girl say, I'm gonna go toschool to be a youth minister.
Fun fact. She did not do that,but I did. I heard her say that,
(09:33):
and it was like a bell went offin my head.
Sat down with Tyler Spradling,talked about it, came under the
care a few years later, went toMTSU, got a degree in social
work that I never used, and wentto MTS and kind of never looked
back. It was there wasn't a lotof fight in me about these
things. I was just sofascinated. It was it was easy
(09:54):
to wanna go pursue it.
T.J. (09:56):
The youth group that you were a part of at Tusculum,
Cumberland Presbyterian Church,Did it consist of students from
one school or multiple schoolsfrom the Nashville area? The
reason I'm asking is I attendeda youth group that consisted of
students from different schools,and it created for me different
(10:20):
spaces that fed and nurtured myinterest and exploration of what
it means to be part of differentcommunities.
Taylor (10:33):
There was a little bit of a hodgepodge. I would say
when I started there, I wasalways into, like, punk rock and
hardcore music and things likethat. And a lot of the friends I
hung out with wereskateboarders. I tried to be,
but I was awful and reallyscared of getting hurt, so I
didn't really skateboard much.But I hung out with my friends,
(10:53):
and, Tyler had this wild idea.
Since all these kids wereskateboarding in their parking
lot, which, allegedly at thetime, many of the older members
had a problem with. This was,let's say, 2003 ish. He decided,
oh, let's block off an area andlet him do it, and then I'm
gonna invite him into youthgroup. And for a few years
(11:15):
there, Tyler had a giganticyouth group because of that. So
there were those of us eventhough I didn't skateboard, I'd
kinda consider myself a part ofthat that group that came in
there.
There's a group of folks whowere I I would say, like, church
trees kids, kids whose parentswent to Tusculum, who came up
(11:36):
there, that sort of thing. And alot of them went to the area
school being Overton HighSchool, and the the feeding
middle schools. A lot of themwent to the McMurray Middle
School where I went, at thetime. I went off to a magnet
school called Houghton Fogg, andI was kinda the only one there
from that, but a lot of myfriends from Overton were still
(11:58):
there. I think there was a, ahandful of folks from right
across Bullying and RutherfordCounty, in kind of the Smyrna,
La Verne area.
But I I really think there was asegment not so much on schools
as it was, like, the kindaraised in the church group and
the group that kinda came in outof the parking lot. And it
(12:20):
wasn't, like, vicious oranything, but I think there
there was kind of a 2 differentcircles there.
T.J. (12:27):
Yeah. Distinctive. Mhmm. What about your interaction with
the adult Christians in thechurch? Was there any overlap
between the youth and theadults?
Taylor (12:45):
So for several years, I would say there was not. And
it's I don't blame anybodybecause I didn't get involved in
camps or, any kind of theextracurricular stuff for quite
some time. I just went toWednesday night. So there was,
miss Terri Gray, who's awonderful woman, still serving
(13:06):
NAACP church, I believe, and,Tyler, and those were pretty
much my adult interactions forseveral years until I probably
got into maybe college andstarted attending Sunday morning
service.
T.J. (13:22):
Interesting. The connection to the Christian
faith was solely through theyouth group.
Taylor (13:30):
Mhmm. Yes.
T.J. (13:33):
I am wondering and this is a broader question. I'm
wondering how the church canstrengthen the relationship
between the youth and the adultswithin a faith community like a
congregation?
Taylor (13:53):
This is maybe where I'd speak more from my youth
ministry being a youth ministerdays than being a participant,
because I'm gonna own that I wasa hard headed kid. I wanted to
do what I wanted to do. Probablystill have that problem today.
But I do remember the experienceof being done with youth group
(14:16):
and most of the people notcoming back for Sunday morning
service. Or, they even had ayoung adult group going for some
time with Nathan Wheeler, and Iwould say the majority of my
friend group, so to speak, mycircle did not come to that.
I mean, their experience withthe church kinda stopped and
ended with graduation. I stuckaround, but, yeah, it was that
(14:39):
was kind of difficult. And I forgoing into my youth minister
days, I really wanted to putmore of an emphasis on including
kids regularly in service. Wedid youth Sundays, but I think
that's always kind of apageantry sort of Sunday. Let's
look at the kids.
(14:59):
Let's see how great they are.We're so proud we have them. But
now we're back to the regularscheduled program next week,
which you're not a part of. AndI think that's problematic in
that if it's just sort of apageantry Sunday once a year,
you're not really integratingkids. You're you're you're sort
(15:21):
of celebrating them once a yearor twice a year, however often
you do it.
I'll say Clarksville got reallygood. I was the youth minister
at Clarksville for, 6 years. Gotreally good about integrating
kids into at least the liturgistposition, which gave them a
role, and some of them werehelping with usher
responsibilities. And justseveral roles they had around
(15:43):
the church that I thought was astep in the right direction.
T.J. (15:48):
This may not be problematic in a smaller
congregation that is or thatconsists more of a family led
church where a child or youth isintegrated at a young age in
worship and leadership roles.Anyway, I believe it's a
discussion that we could behaving.
Taylor (16:11):
Yeah. I I try to put myself as much as I can. I've
worked in churches regularlysince 2012. So, I mean, I guess
that's 12 going on 13 years now,you know, the majority of my
adult life. But I try to putmyself in the shoes as church
attendee tailor.
(16:33):
If I'm not the pastor, I'mwalking into a church. And I
can't speak for everybody, but Ican speak for what I think I
was. And, you know, I alwayswant something that's relevant,
and I want a community thatlooks like me, but I also want
connection with people who areolder with a lot of wisdom. And
(16:55):
so I think that's the strugglein a lot of our CP churches to
begin with, is that some ofthose tools that I think Taylor,
the attendee, would want, wejust don't have the resources
for sometimes, the amount ofpeople there. And I really
haven't figured out a greatsolution to that, kind of a
(17:17):
chicken or the egg scenario.
You know? Do you need youngpeople to get young people, or
do you build a program and theycome? You know, is it filled of
dreams? But, I'm I'm sort of abeliever. You need you need
young people to invest to getmore young people to invest, and
that's a that's a trickysituation I haven't figured out
at the start to.
T.J. (17:38):
Mhmm. And then I believe that there is a reluctance among
many congregations to considerhaving faith conversations
outside the confines of thechurch structure and the church
building.
Taylor (17:57):
I did an experiment, I'll call it that, a few years
back, and I I honestly justended it because attendance,
waned pretty quickly. But Itried doing something, and I
called it The Table at the time,not knowing there was a church
in town called The Table, whichme and that pastor talked, and
she was actually quitewonderful, but she didn't have
(18:19):
any issues. But, anyway, theidea was that we could go and
discuss anything. We'd we'd havea a set topic for the week, and
I would try to let them steerwhat we were gonna do each time
we met. We try to do, I think,twice a month, and we would meet
at, like, a, brewery, arestaurant, or something, you
know, kinda take this.
My thought was take the stigmaoff of. So if you wanted to
(18:43):
order, an alcoholic drink,you're welcome to. If you didn't
want to and just wanted to eat,you could eat, but we're all
gonna sit there and discuss. Andthey were really, beautiful
times when we were able to doit, but I think I also caught a
another one of those situationswhere we had a person group that
was just so lopsided. I had, youknow, an 18 year old and a and a
(19:05):
38 year old at the same table,and they're in 2 different
situations.
And, you know, I think the 18year old could remember the 38
year old being their counselor.And so I think there was that
sort of scenario, plus, I mean,just a lot of obligations where,
(19:26):
maybe we didn't have quite thetotal buy in from everybody that
we were hoping for. So, it wasdefinitely worth worthwhile to
try, and there's something coolto it, but and I think under a
different scenario, I think itwould actually work again, but
it's another one of thosechicken or the egg scenarios.
T.J. (19:47):
There is beauty in experimentation and the
recognition that we move throughseasons of life. Believe that
our needs change as we change.And one of the challenges
resistant to recognizing changeis the distinction between
(20:11):
growth in faith and churchattendance. Church attendance or
lack thereof is often perceivedas an act of disobedience. And
church attendance or lackthereof often is perceived as a
(20:32):
reflection upon the ministry ofthe minister.
Taylor (20:38):
Well and, you know, there's a we don't like to use
this word. We like to pretendlike we can ignore it, but there
is a business side to the churchtoo, that, you know, pays the
grocery bill and gives us ouryearly review. And those things
(20:59):
oftentimes, are based on metricspeople can see. And so I think
sometimes it's a really hardbalancing act to sort of please
the metric or or work towardsthe metric of, like, attendance,
membership, giving, but do it ina scenario where we are acting
(21:24):
faithfully in doing what I wouldjust call good ministry.
T.J. (21:30):
And then there is the aspect of the individual who
will say, I am a person of faithbecause of my church attendance.
Taylor (21:45):
Yeah. Yeah. And I I to be clear, I don't think,
attendance is a direct equationto faithfulness or or
servanthood. I mean, I, youknow, I believe very genuinely
that my parents were and areChristian and love god, even
(22:05):
when they didn't attend churchfor years years years.
T.J. (22:10):
Let's go back to your senior year in high school. How
did you decide your college andyour career path?
Taylor (22:26):
I wanted to just go somewhere that had a big campus
with a lot of options. And so Iwanted to be able to sort of
explore different ideas. And, Iwas a diehard UT football fan,
but, actually, I did not get inthere. And I wound up at Middle
(22:47):
Tennessee State University,which I had a very good
experience with. Loved it.
Would recommend it to anyonewho's thinking about it. But I
wanted to have a pool ofdifferent degrees, a large
community of people to try andmeet. I just wanted that
(23:09):
experience so badly. I wanted toknow something and someone
different than what I had known,and I think I got that in so
many ways from that experience.I think I was exposed to a lot
of new ideas that I couldappreciate even if I didn't
agree with.
T.J. (23:28):
How did you choose the path of social work?
Taylor (23:36):
So going into college, I knew from the get go, I wanted
to go into wanted to go intoseminary, so I was I was a
weirdo. I knew right from day 1I was going to seminary. And the
basic understanding I had wasyou have to have a degree. It
doesn't matter what it's in.Started out initially declaring
(23:57):
as a public relations major,lost interest pretty quickly,
and just kinda looked around.
I thought honestly, I startedgetting into practical terms.
I'm like, okay. What's a degreethat seems useful, could do
something similar to what Iwanna do without being
completely useless at thebachelor's level, which might be
(24:18):
a joke on me now because thebachelor's in social work's
nearly useless now too. That's amaster's level program for most
people. But so I I was alwaysintrigued by psychology, which I
wound up minoring in, butthought social work would be a
much more, practical degree.
And and I did learn some thingsthat actually informed ministry,
so I was glad I went into itbecause it was about you know, a
(24:40):
a large portion of social workpractice was connecting people
to resources, and, we learnedinterviewing skills, and not not
like job interviewing, but Idon't quite say counseling, but,
you know, interviewing, talkingto people, skills like that. So
I found some of that useful, andinformative when going into
(25:05):
ministry. I thought what couldbe sort of a a supporting degree
for ministry.
T.J. (25:11):
Walk me through how you entered into youth ministry.
What was your thinking? What wasyour process?
Taylor (25:23):
I think from a young age, I realized the amount of
critical decisions that youngpeople have to make and the
support that they need. Reallyencountered a lot of friends who
had been through a lot of traumain my young age. You know, I've
had friends who revealed to me,I mean, terrible abuse from
(25:44):
sexual abuse to physical abuse,in their lives, and, you know,
they confided in me at the time,and I thought, you know, how
could you how could you at leastbe a positive space for people
like this in the future? BecauseI wanted to be a positive space
for them as a friend at thetime. Knowing what I know now,
(26:08):
probably should have reported acouple things, but, you know,
when you're 13, you don't knowthese things.
T.J. (26:15):
Even at the age of 13, you have your peers who are seeking
you out and confiding in you.Mhmm. Looking back into your
life, what do you think thatsays about your character when
you were younger?
Taylor (26:33):
It made me feel trusted, and I I think you know, I have a
stoic, really crass sense ofhumor. But at the same time, I
think the compassion I have forpeople shines through. The care
I have for people shinesthrough. And so I think that's
(26:57):
when I became aware of that asone of my strengths, and I'm not
a person who is very confidentin a lot of my strengths. Like,
I'm not good at any sport.
I'm not particularly great atany instrument. You know? I've
filled around with some things,but there's nothing I'm gonna
get up and do a talent show foryou on, which is a bit of an
(27:17):
insecurity for me, honestly. ButI'll say the ability to work
with people and be compassionateto people felt like the first
time I felt like I was good atsomething. And so it not only
shined a light on that, but itkinda gave me meaning.
T.J. (27:38):
I wonder if it is your nonjudgmental demeanor tone, the
way you carry yourself that is aunique way that makes you
approachable? Yeah.
Taylor (27:57):
I'll say I'm not without my faults, but I do my best to
try to not jump the gun onanything and just listen. And if
somebody's been throughsomething that's rough, I mean,
just just take it and and andprocess it. This is maybe my
soapbox, but maybe me becoming acurmudgeon. But one of my my my
(28:23):
recent just complaints with I'lljust say society. It's a word I
I don't know if I came up withit, but I'm calling it outrage
culture.
Watch the Olympics. Right? Wesaw something we didn't like. We
got online, and we and I say we,I just mean society, bashed it
into the ground. Right?
We we reacted. We didn't take inthe information. We just
(28:46):
screamed, we have a problem withthis. How dare they? And then
another thing happened to theOlympics.
And we screamed, this is unfair.We don't like this. We didn't
even have all the information.And then some of us stayed
willingly ignorant when theinformation on that came out,
which is even more mindbogglingly, problematic. And I
(29:07):
see this not just saying youshouldn't have your convictions,
by all means, have yourconvictions.
But, man, we'd benefit so muchif we would just slow down, take
some information in, process it.Don't feel the need to respond,
and then figure out what we haveto do to make the world better.
(29:30):
And sometimes making the worldbetter with things like that is
just being silent, and it's justlistening. Now I know this is
you know, when we deal withOlympic athletes, these are,
like, people who are not in ourimmediate sphere and realm, but
I think this is verytranslatable the way we talk to
people. You know, someone tellsyou something that maybe even
(29:50):
offends you.
And trust me, I can get offendedwith the best of them, and I get
my feelings hurt easy. But Ialways do better if I take some
time and process and think andpray and come back to it. And I
find my responses are usuallyfar more level headed, far more
(30:13):
kingdom building than they willbe if I go off my gut reaction
to something.
T.J. (30:19):
I wonder if those who have experienced trauma are able to,
in a unconscious way, findothers who have also experienced
trauma and develop a bond or acomfort in a shared or similar
experience. And for some, maybeeven take a risk and seek out
(30:45):
understanding and empathy to aidin their healing.
Taylor (30:53):
No I mean I hear you, I mean we talk about like ideas
like religious trauma is kind ofa popular ideal ideology these
days and sometimes I seepeople's first responses. We
need to defend the faith againstthe religiously traumatized.
Right? Like, so the church isbad to them. They're saying
something bad about the church.
(31:13):
Let's defend the church. I'm abeliever that god doesn't need
defending. And I think ifsomeone shares something like
that, it's worth listening to.I'll say even just going through
different types of pain. Youknow?
Going through a a divorce around29, 30 years of age, in my
(31:40):
experience was one of the mostpainful things I've been
through, emotionally. You know,I thank god for people like
Dusty Luthy who, without I mean,I don't think she would mind me
saying she's been through adivorce. She was a good friend
to me through that time andreally helped me because she had
(32:01):
walked that road before me. Andnow when I encounter people who
say they're going through adivorce, I hear that so
differently than I ever heardthat before I had gone through
that experience, and it hasreally informed the way I hear a
(32:22):
lot of pain differently now. Idon't wish that I went through
it.
It was awful, but, I do think ithas helped to build this sense
of compassion. And I do thinkthere is sort of this mentality
with a lot of people where it'slike, if I've been through this
and you've been through thistoo, we can help each other. I
(32:45):
think that's where we get ourprobably our groups like AA, NA,
you know, PTSD type groups forsoldiers. But sometimes just
going through a trauma and justunderstanding how hard that is
can help us with some other typeof trauma. You know?
(33:06):
I don't know what it's like togo through extreme mental
illness. I know what it's liketo have anxiety. I know what
it's like to have something inmy mind going on that I can't
control. So while I can't fullyunderstand what you're going
through, I can sort ofunderstand how your brain not
being in your control can be ascary thing.
T.J. (33:25):
And it can remove feelings of isolation.
Taylor (33:31):
I agree.
T.J. (33:34):
You mentioned a calling into youth ministry.
Taylor (33:37):
Mhmm.
T.J. (33:38):
Now you are serving as a senior minister at the Saint
Luke Cumberland PresbyterianChurch in Nashville. Did you
have thoughts while doing youthministry of expanding to
ministering to all generations?
Taylor (33:57):
Well, so ordination was always on the docket for me. My
main reason for wanting to beordained is I wanted to be able
to baptize, feed communion, and,do weddings for youth. It was
always centered around youth. II was convinced I was gonna do
that forever. But I went aheadand got the MDiv because I said,
(34:19):
you know, what if?
Life's big, so I thought m thethe masters of divinity is
useful for both areas. I did notpicture going into pastoral
ministry, And now that I havedone it for I think we're coming
(34:40):
up on 5 years coming up on 4years no. 4 years. Excuse me. In
so many ways, they're they'redifferent, but very similar.
It's just a new way of doing thework I was already doing.
T.J. (35:01):
So the focus has changed a little bit. So maybe instead of
preparing a weekly sermon, youwere preparing a youth
Taylor (35:12):
lesson. Youth lesson. Yeah. Well, and this is kind of
a tongue in cheek thing I I tellpeople, but, you know, I talk to
young people and they're like,oh, there's so much drama now.
And I said, buddy, let me tellyou, people don't get less
dramatic as they get older.
They just get cars and money. Imean, it's it it it is sort of
(35:32):
tongue in cheek, but, I mean, Ican promise you. I can I for
every dramatic 14, 15 year oldyou can find, I can find you a
dramatic 65 year old? I mean,it's and and they're wonderful.
I love them both.
But there's not what's the word?There there's not as much
(35:57):
difference between those groupsas people might think. You know,
the music taste, the moviedifference, the the restaurants
they go to might be different.But when it comes to, like,
processing life, we're allcarrying around our own junk.
T.J. (36:11):
Processing and how will we react to engaging life? Maybe
you're right. Maybe there aresmaller differences than we give
credit to between a 17 year oldand a 77 year old.
Taylor (36:31):
And someone may be screaming if they're listening
to this, screaming at the phone,be like, absolutely. He's wrong.
I'm like, that's okay. That'syou can disagree with me. That's
fine.
T.J. (36:42):
While you were a student in seminary, were you engaged in
any type of ministry or just afull time student?
Taylor (36:53):
Yeah. So I served on paper, it said 27 hours a week.
I have no idea how to calculatewhat that actually was. But,
yeah, so I served atClarksville, Cumberland
Presbyterian, through my entire,seminary career and then a few
years after it. My role gotexpanded to be associate pastor
(37:18):
over children and young adultsafter I graduated, but during
seminary, it was solely justyouth ministry.
So it it was really it wasreally wonderful, because I got
to, you know, on the jobexperience. I did I did work for
2 years prior to that at aMethodist church. I went through
(37:38):
the Center For Youth MinistryTraining. Unfortunately I mean,
there there was a lot of goodexperiences, but it was it was
not going well overall there.So, I mean, it was just after 2
years, it was time to go.
And then Clarksville just fellinto my lap, and it was a it was
a really beautiful experiencethat I'll I'll cherish forever.
(38:00):
Those kids there, man, they're Igot to see a couple of them the
other day, and, like, I don'tthink they know how much. I just
get so proud and just smile whenI see them just exist in a room.
T.J. (38:12):
Any memorable stories in the history of your youth
ministry? A youth event, a youthtrip, a lesson that you led that
has stuck with you through theyears and you recall back
fondly.
Taylor (38:35):
Yeah. I'm just trying to think, should it be funny,
negative, or positive? Because Igot probably one for all of
them. I'll say this. It's kindageneralized statement, but, and
(38:55):
this will also boost up my mygood friend, reverend Lisa Cook.
We started getting involved withSacred Sparks while we did 30
Hour Famine, which if you're notfamiliar with 30 Hour Famine, is
a fundraising event where thekids will go and not eat for 30
hours and do service work. Andso we started, getting involved
(39:17):
with Sacred Sparks. And yeah,thank you. Good idea. Sacred
Sparks is at the time, the theway it operated, Lisa Cook, were
still works for these people,but worked with, homeless and
extreme poverty groups ofpeople, helping with different
(39:41):
needs that they have.
So she would go into camps, likehomeless camps around Nashville
to help with people with thingsthat they needed, which could be
so various. I mean, her she doesnow and probably back then was
laundry, but she would alsohelp, you know, organize people
to clean up certain areas ifthey needed it, try to get
(40:03):
furniture, try to get propanetanks. Like, I think Lisa would
tell you her her ministry isholy chaos, and it's evolved a
lot since those days. But at thetime, yes, she she was, she
would arrange something for whenour kids would come into town,
we would typically do somethinglike clean up, around a homeless
(40:24):
camp, or or people were campingbecause there's there's no legal
spot to camp, but some of thelandowners would turn a blind
eye to it if the camp was kepttidy and everything like that.
And sometimes things gettrashed, so they would come pick
it up.
They would but she would alwaysfocus on building having a time
where the kids could buildrelationships with the people
(40:47):
she served. And the compassionthe kids had so naturally
towards everyone was, I think, aa a glimpse into heaven. You
know? It was there was no nojudgment in the eyes of the
(41:09):
young people. There was no,questioning what choices they
made.
What are they doing with intheir free time? There was just
this general want to understandand to love. And so those are
the moments I hold on to with alot of pride when working with
kids. Had a lot of wild thingsto talk about, but I don't wanna
(41:35):
embarrass any of my former kidsso I think I think their their
dignity deserves to bepreserved.
T.J. (41:44):
Taylor, it could be said that youth group is a safe
training space to prepare youngpeople to engage more in the
world. I wonder though if wehold that belief upside down and
it is the youth who are cleareyed about the world. From your
(42:10):
experience, what has the youthtaught you about faith, life and
the world?
Taylor (42:29):
There's probably more things than I can name but
there's just I have this reallyreally, this moment where
someone a kid kinda threwsomething back in my face in the
most in the most appropriateway. We were closing our, youth
group meeting time, and we justdid prayer requests at the end
of it. And, at the time, my mymy then wife had a car accident,
(42:52):
and it was a hit and run sort ofscenario. Someone had hit her
and drove off. And this, thisthis young guy looks up at me.
He goes, hey, Tyler. Didn't youalways tell us we should pray
for people who do wrong to us?Shouldn't we be praying for that
whoever it was that hit hit yourwife? And I was like you know, I
(43:14):
had to pause for a second. I'mlike, yes.
Yes. You were right. That isexactly right. And that was not
going to be on my mind thatnight. At the time, it was very
fresh.
So kind of that moment ofrealizing they're always
listening and putting that backinto your head and teaching you
(43:35):
at times to follow God's wordwas there. And then I think, I
like people watching. I lovedwatching some of my kids find
ways to be passionate to eachother or to other people, and I
would do no justice in trying toname that in specifics right
(43:58):
now. But I, you know, I I alwayslearned a lot just from the way
they kinda navigated theirsituations, and I could just be
a fly on the wall at times.
T.J. (44:12):
Taylor, serving the church as a youth leader first and now
as a minister, what are yourhopes and aspirations for the
Cumberland Presbyterian Churchin the years to come?
Taylor (44:31):
That's a hard question or a hard thought. I'm sorry. I
I I gotta own that. I've beenbeen I don't I don't know if the
(44:52):
word pessimistic is right. Andsort of having a pity party
about the division, thefragmentation, separation from
each other.
That that part is distressing,and it's left me with the
(45:13):
question of where will there bea CP church 5 to 10 years from
now? I I don't know the answerto that. You know? I hope so,
but I know my hope for thechurch in general is that we
(45:35):
just don't give up on trying newways to share possible. I think
one of the things that hashaunted us beyond our current
arguments that we have overtheology is we can be
dogmatically loyal to ourtraditions.
(45:58):
And some of those traditions arejust things like our
instrumentation, our order ofworship, and we will do it to
our own detriment sometimes. Andso my hopes for the CP church is
that we're willing to kinda letgo of some of what has always
(46:21):
been to try to really do abetter job of understanding how
we can share the gospel to theworld in front of us right now.
My current ministry in SaintLuke, Cumberland Presbyterian
Church, which is a it's a smallchurch filled with just
wonderful people, people who areare are loving, compassionate.
(46:47):
They like to throw around theword nonjudgmental. And to their
credit, I think they embody itfairly well.
But I think they we have alsorealized that we have been sorta
stagnant in the way it was for along time. You know, slow to
(47:07):
change, slow to, slow to kindamodern updates that I can't say
for sure, but might have helpedsome things along if they were
gotten to a little bit earlier.Just things like having a
website, a presence on theInternet, you know, having, I I
(47:29):
don't know, because COVID wassuch a wild time. But even right
now, we're we're kind of in the,we're in the phase of asking the
question after we've had abuilding hit by tornado and
rebuilding it. What what are wegonna do when we build back?
Are we, you know, are we tryingto go back with the same thing
and keep doing the same old,same old? But I think, I think
(47:51):
we're really pushing towardsdoing more. I mean, that's why
we've started the house, Youknow, until the tornado hit, we
were housing Sacred Sparks,Loads of Love Laundry Ministry,
which provided laundry for folkswho needed it 4 days a week.
We've, started housing a jointworship service with, Lisa Cook,
(48:14):
Lisa Oliver, Andrea Gutierrez,all all 3 are reverends. Excuse
me.
I should have addressed them asreverend, but all 3 of those
reverends and myself helpingout, that is ministering to a
Hispanic population, which wherewe are is very large. And it
wouldn't take you 5 seconds towalk into Saint Luke and realize
(48:36):
there's not many Hispanic peoplein our church. You know, so I I
think these are at least smallefforts, and I gotta attribute a
lot of it to Lisa Cook and LisaOliver, which I jokingly call
them good Lisa and bad Lisa.I'll let you figure out which
one's which. So theirwillingness to wanna start
something.
I'm just lucky enough to be onthe receiving end in our
(48:57):
building. But I think these arethe the images of God, the the
little glimmers of hope, thelittle little taste of the
kingdom, things that arehappening that give me some
sense of hope because it's doingchurch in a nontraditional way.
It's really outside the box, andI'm just, again, lucky enough
(49:19):
that we can house it.
T.J. (49:21):
We've been talking about the Saint Luke Cumberland
Presbyterian Church. Taylor, doyou mind giving some context to
what has occurred in terms of anatural disaster to the
facilities?
Taylor (49:38):
Sure. So, on in December in Nashville, there were some
tornadoes that had come through.We're in Madison, which is a a
northern part of Nashville. Whenthey had come through, they had
come very close to our church,and our our church is kinda
shaped like a giant u with the,like a sideways u. So the front
(49:59):
end having kind of the oldsanctuary, which is where the
the kids' school is, a hallwaythat leads down to the
sanctuary.
And if you a hallway straightback from the sanctuary that
goes into a building that wecall the Family Life Center,
which had all of our Sundayschool classrooms, the laundry
room, and our gym, and ourfellowship hall. That backside
(50:20):
of that u, the building there,was impacted by the tornado
coming through. It actuallycreated something called
negative pressure, which I gotto learn about, that actually,
instead of blowing the wall in,sucked the exterior wall out and
then also sucked the adjacentwall inside the gym out and
basically ruined the entirebuilding. So kind of the
(50:44):
backside of our u, which wasactually the the largest part of
our building, has beendestroyed. So when the when the
structural engineers camethrough, basically said they had
to tear, let's just say, 90% ofthe building out for the
rebuild.
(51:04):
We basically had to close offthat part of the building, kinda
like moving from a big houseinto a small apartment in some
ways. Lisa Cook had to relocateher ministry over to Brush Hill.
Temporarily. We're looking tohave her back. It also displaced
a narcotics anonymous meetingthat we had here, hosted here.
(51:27):
But so at this point, they'vetorn everything out. There's
kind of a wall and a staircaseand sort of a brick structure
back there, but the roof iscompletely torn off. Most of the
walls are torn off, and there'sa big concrete slab in the back
of our building. That tookseveral months to get started,
(51:48):
because it was hard to find theright contractor. And at this
time, they have said they willstart the rebuilding process
come October, November 2024 thisyear.
And from there, it could takeanother year to another 18
months to rebuild. So we're justkind of learning to operate in
(52:08):
the front half of our building,which is cramped at times, but
we're making it work.
T.J. (52:15):
The Family Life Center there at Saint Luke would make a
fantastic skateboarding park.
Taylor (52:22):
Oh, it would. It would. But we we have some some ideas
going forward. We wanna we wehave one of those old carpeted
gyms, which I'm sure plenty ofour CEP churches still have. And
I I if if there's anything I dowanna be judgmental about, it's
whoever decided putting carpetin the gym was a good idea.
(52:45):
I think that is a tool of thedevil because they are awful.
They hold every puke and foodstain that's ever spilled on
them, and they become disgustingover time. But, anyways, we're
gonna go back with a with annicer floor, and we're hoping to
use it to serve the community,to host some some basketball
leagues, or to host, differentthings for people to just come
(53:06):
in and and have our facility notjust exist here, but be a place
that people can can use. Andhopefully, we'll encounter some
good folks who who, maybe wannago on this faith journey with
us.
T.J. (53:19):
Alright. Thank you for the update. Taylor, I'm aware that
you are a fan of music andmovies and books. From each
category, name one that hasenriched your faith.
Taylor (53:40):
So faith wise, I always go back to the rock band, Bryce.
I have especially a a goodrelationship with an album they
had called Beggars, and Iactually wrote one of the songs
off of Beggars into a curriculumfor CPYC 1 year. It it was it's
(54:03):
just such a beautiful album. Nowif you're not into their type of
music, so be it. But, the thelead singer, Dustin Kinsruh,
he's not a, they are not a,quote, Christian band, but it's
very obvious through theirwritings Dustin Kinseru is a
Christian.
In fact, Dustin has gone on tobe a song leader for, some
(54:25):
church. I don't know which one.But as far as a faith forming
album, I have always, always,always loved Thrice, which, you
know, they've got they've gotmusic that kinda ranges from
sort of I hate to say punk rockbecause it's not really punk
(54:45):
rock. I I'm a real snob aboutthe way we label things, but I'm
trying to think of what's goingto actually communicate. Let's
just say it's rock.
Okay. We'll leave it at that.Movie world. Would it would it
need to be a faith movie? So I'ma giant nerd.
(55:10):
It's kinda like what's the movieI'm watching right now. I think
I'm always gonna have a anattraction to Star Wars and to,
like, the old nineties Batmanmovies and, Jurassic Park and
all the stuff I grew up on. I'ma nostalgia junkie. But I think
(55:31):
Star Wars, were were suchcomplex stories. And I know Star
Wars is such a broad categorynow, if you follow it at all,
because, you know, there'scartoon series, live action
series on Disney plus.
There's movies. I mean, it itgoes on and on. But if you just
watch kind of the, we'll say,the baseline 9 movies, I think
(55:53):
there's always been a lot ofjust great lessons to learn from
there. And I'll and I'll I'llthrow in one little extra thing.
You say TV.
I am a I am a pro wrestlingnerd. I know you didn't really
ask about it, but, I am eventrying to I'm even sort of
(56:13):
freelancing with a local prowrestling company, not as a
wrestler, I'm not athletic.Let's be very clear about that.
But trying to do some ad spaceselling and stuff for them and
selling shows, And I think assilly as it is and pro wrestling
could be over the top, that'skind of its its baseline. It's,
(56:35):
you know, it's storytelling.
It's a theatrics show. Butthere's always a story of you
know, there's always, like, abad guy, what we would call a
heel, and a good guy, which wecall baby face, or a bad girl
and, you know, good girl. Butwhen a when storytelling's done
(56:57):
really well in wrestling, eventhough it always kinda centers
around a violent match, there iskind of this upward, up the
hill, overcoming the odds battlethat I think is always just so
life giving to watch sometimes,and and I've just always enjoyed
it. I'm trying to get some ofour Sacred Sparks kids to a some
(57:18):
of the kids that come in forlaundry. I'm gonna get them to a
a local show that's gonna have afew big name talent on it, but,
I mean, the reality is peopleshould watch pro wrestling,
everyone should enjoy it, but Iknow they're not all gonna do
it.
T.J. (57:32):
Alright. Well I may have to stretch here just a little
bit, but wrestling and StarWars, each of those carry a
redemptive arc.
Taylor (57:47):
Yeah. Absolutely they do. Wrestling's just so
episodic. There's so manystories going at once that
there's always something new.
T.J. (57:55):
Right. Right. And I believe it's human nature to be
drawn to a good redemptivestory.
Taylor (58:05):
Absolutely.
T.J. (58:07):
Alright. How about a book or a novel? Ugh. This is
Taylor (58:14):
where I'm gonna get in trouble. I'm not a big reader,
outside of when I have to, but Ihave always had an affinity for
a good classic that I'm sure alot of people have read, which
is Mere Christianity by CSLewis. If you ever just wanna
hear some good thoughts abouthow someone came to the
(58:36):
conclusion of faith, I thinkhe's very good. I'll I'll do a
little swerve on you. I'll gowith the podcast.
One that has been intriguing me,and I I can't say I agree with
everything that comes out of it,but there's one called Data Over
Dogma, by a scholar named DanMcClellan, who is oddly enough a
(59:02):
Mormon. And I didn't think Iwould be sitting to you
recommending a podcast from aMormon theologian, but I I find
his work to be very intriguing,and I think there's a lot of
informative stuff there. And Ithink for my pastor friends and
(59:24):
maybe maybe any church consciousperson. There's a book we did,
it's very short, called Autopsyof a Deceased Church. The
author's name is alluding me atthe moment, but, I think it's a
very comprehensive way to, like,analyze your church.
T.J. (59:42):
Do you think, anyone can pick up this book and be fed by
it as well?
Taylor (59:49):
Oh, yeah. We we we attempted to read through it
with a person, and there's asequel book to it called, I
can't remember, it's likeAnatomy of a Thriving Church or
something like that. I may beway off in that title, but it's
the same author. But there, Imean, you could sit down and
read the whole book in less thanan hour.
T.J. (01:00:09):
Both a digestible and a quick read.
Taylor (01:00:14):
Yeah. Yeah. It's, I I I prefer people to be short and
sweet. We don't need to read,you know, Karl Barth on
everything.
T.J. (01:00:25):
Taylor, thank you very, very much for allowing me to
hear your Faith's Journey andfor being a guest on Cumberland
Road.
Taylor (01:00:38):
I really appreciate the time to be here.
T.J. (01:00:42):
Thank you for listening to this episode of Cumberland Road.
If you wanna hear other faithjourneys, you can find
Cumberland Road on its ownwebsite, on Apple Podcast,
Spotify, or your favoritepodcasting site. In closing, I'm
gonna read from the authorMarcus Borg and his book,
(01:01:03):
Speaking Christian. These twovisions of Christianity, one,
emphasizing the next world andwhat we must believe and do in
order to get there. The other,emphasizing god's passion for
the transformation of thisworld. They are very different,
(01:01:25):
yet they use the same languageand share the same sacred
scripture, the same bible. Whatseparates them is how the shared
language is understood, whetherwithin the framework of heaven
and hell Christianity or withinthe framework of God's passion
for transformation in thisworld. Thanks for listening.
Welcome to the Cumberland Road, where I have conversations
about how one's faith impactstheir daily life, their
interactions with others, andtheir vocation. I'm your host,
TJ Malinowski. My guest thisepisode is Taylor Young. Taylor
(00:25):
is the minister at St. LukeCumberland Presbyterian Church
in Madison, Tennessee. In thisconversation, we talk about
parenthood, youth ministry, andthe resilience after a natural
disaster. Enjoy this phasedjourney with Taylor Young.
(00:52):
Taylor, thank you for joining meon the podcast. In a few months,
you will be a first time parent.Share some thoughts on what
parenting may look like for you.
Taylor (01:07):
So as we're recording this, it is about 3 months away.
I am due I mean, we are due. Mywife is due. Mid November.
Really, really excited.
My journey has been verytumultuous when it comes to
(01:29):
getting to this point in life,so I feel very happy. I won't
speak ill of anyone, but I willsay that I had a previous
marriage that ended, partiallydue to a difference in the
difference of opinion on wantingchildren, which was
heartbreaking. And so, my my nowwife, Lizzie, who is
(01:50):
spectacular, and I got marriedwhat I would consider a little
bit later depending on who youask. I did not anticipate having
my first child at 34. I thoughtI'd be a little bit younger,
but, I just can't stop beingthankful because there was a
time where I thought this wasn'tgoing to happen, and, we haven't
(02:11):
crossed the finish line yet.
You know, everything lookspromising. Maybe it seems
healthy. So I'm just excited,also scared. Scared about the, I
love sleeping. Anyone whoremembers me as a youth
volunteer or youth counselor atcamp knew I like to sleep, and I
know that's not a part of theprogram, but I think that'll be
(02:35):
well worth it.
T.J. (02:37):
Maybe this is a finish line in one way and a starting
line in another. You are aboutto begin a new relationship.
What do you think that newrelationship will look like?
Taylor (02:54):
Well, so I love kids to begin with, and I'm a big kid at
heart. I thought I was gonna beyouth minister forever,
honestly. So I'm excited aboutthe little, silly things. Like,
I still love Disney theme parks,and, having a a daughter come in
(03:15):
the world is a good excuse to goto do that more. I'm excited for
all the the little things.
I mean, I still watch cartoons,without a kid, so adding that in
will be great. That's all thefun stuff. I'm sure I will learn
to be less selfish, and I'm I'mready mentally to be in a less
(03:38):
selfish life, be in a lifethat's not as centered around my
wants, my ambitions. And I'm I'mI'm aware of that now. I'm sure
I'm not really aware of thattill I get into it, but
T.J. (03:50):
How much free advice from others have you received in
parenting?
Taylor (03:58):
Quite a bit. I I actually welcome it. It doesn't
bother me if somebody gives mesomething I don't agree with. So
I I like hearing people'sperspectives. You know?
I was I was raised with a withan iron hand. You know? I I got
spanked. I got all those things,and that's really not the
journey we're gonna go on withour kid, we think. But, you
(04:21):
know, I've had someone say, oh,you gotta discipline them early
and discipline them hard and,you know, agree with discipline
but maybe not hitting them.
And I think that's what theywere implying, and it didn't
bother me. I you know, I'lllisten to anybody. I the the
reality is I think it isimportant to listen to people
who've been down a road youhaven't been on before, and take
(04:43):
what you think is of value andleave what you don't think is of
value. And I think that's truewith so many scenarios, not with
just parenting. You know?
And I'm sure my ideas now willbe very different in a year and
in 2 years and so on and soforth.
T.J. (04:59):
Adding another person to the family brings a new
perspective, a new voice, a newpoint of view. And these same
perspectives and voice and pointof view also comes with
questions.
Taylor (05:14):
Well, I've given my wife plenty of practice with that. I
already asked her the samequestions over and over, so you
know?
T.J. (05:25):
Let's talk about your childhood. What would you want
others to know?
Taylor (05:33):
So I I think mine was pretty good. I mean, I I don't
think I have a, I think my tellis valuable, but, it may not be
as exhilarating as some. Ireally wasn't raised in a church
per se. I was raised with 2parents who believed Christian
(05:53):
beliefs, did not attend church,were had no offense to it, but
they just didn't wanna go. Youknow, they mom kinda gave me
some surface level idea of yougotta pray to God.
God is real. Jesus is real. And,honestly, to this day, I've
never questioned that, at leastthat fact of it. You know, I I
(06:15):
was, you know, just into sillythings. You know?
I liked I was in the nineties. Iwas a Power Rangers kid, you
know, and I grew up onprofessional wrestling and still
love professional wrestling tothis day, all the fun things.
But I, I came about faiththrough a lot of little,
(06:37):
instances with friends. Myconnection to the Cumberland
church actually started with agirl who I thought was very
pretty at my middle school whoinvited me to the youth group
across the street, which wasTusculum Cumberland
Presbyterian, with TylerSpradling, who was became my
(06:57):
youth minister. That girl had noimpact in me, by the way, which
is fine, but I found a communitythat I really enjoyed and a
youth minister I still think alot of to this day.
And I was still kinda new toChurch World. I knew of God, but
(07:17):
Church World really it was weirdto me. You know, I went to VBS a
few times. I thought my earlyperception of church people is,
wow. These are really strictpeople.
You know, they're they're notinto my my shenanigans, and that
that may have been amisconception, but perception is
reality. And Tyler was the firstperson I thought, he can build
(07:42):
my shenanigans just fine. So,you know, maintained my
relationship there, asked a lotof questions. I was so intrigued
by everything. I loved askingquestions and discussing.
Discussing things is it's it'swhere I I I grow. You know, he
said I threw him off because Ilearned some words in school. I
(08:02):
said, what's the differencebetween consubstantiation and
transubstantiation? If you couldimagine just a youth kid asking
you that in the middle of alesson. Yeah.
So, you know, I I went on and,made the decision. Of course,
not raised in a church, wasn'tbaptized at a young age, so I
made the decision at 15 to getbaptized. Still being relatively
(08:22):
new to Church World, I also hada Church of Christ friend, very
one of those Church of Christfriends who, I was sleeping over
at his house, and he said, hey,man. I I just really don't want
you to go to hell. We're goingto church in the morning.
Do do you think you wanna getbaptized there just so I can
make sure? And so I did. Sotongue in cheek, I tell people,
you know, I'm covered on bothends, there. So I was poured in,
(08:48):
poured on, and then I wassubmerged in the, Church of
Christ. But, yeah, faith as akid was just I think I was just
so fascinated, by God, by thehigher existence, by a a life
that's more meaningful than theone in front of us.
(09:10):
You know? So I I always latchedon to that, and it was the only
thing that made sense at 17years old, wrapping up high
school, applying to colleges forI had no idea what, and hearing
a girl say, I'm gonna go toschool to be a youth minister.
Fun fact. She did not do that,but I did. I heard her say that,
(09:33):
and it was like a bell went offin my head.
Sat down with Tyler Spradling,talked about it, came under the
care a few years later, went toMTSU, got a degree in social
work that I never used, and wentto MTS and kind of never looked
back. It was there wasn't a lotof fight in me about these
things. I was just sofascinated. It was it was easy
(09:54):
to wanna go pursue it.
T.J. (09:56):
The youth group that you were a part of at Tusculum,
Cumberland Presbyterian Church,Did it consist of students from
one school or multiple schoolsfrom the Nashville area? The
reason I'm asking is I attendeda youth group that consisted of
students from different schools,and it created for me different
(10:20):
spaces that fed and nurtured myinterest and exploration of what
it means to be part of differentcommunities.
Taylor (10:33):
There was a little bit of a hodgepodge. I would say
when I started there, I wasalways into, like, punk rock and
hardcore music and things likethat. And a lot of the friends I
hung out with wereskateboarders. I tried to be,
but I was awful and reallyscared of getting hurt, so I
didn't really skateboard much.But I hung out with my friends,
(10:53):
and, Tyler had this wild idea.
Since all these kids wereskateboarding in their parking
lot, which, allegedly at thetime, many of the older members
had a problem with. This was,let's say, 2003 ish. He decided,
oh, let's block off an area andlet him do it, and then I'm
gonna invite him into youthgroup. And for a few years
(11:15):
there, Tyler had a giganticyouth group because of that. So
there were those of us eventhough I didn't skateboard, I'd
kinda consider myself a part ofthat that group that came in
there.
There's a group of folks whowere I I would say, like, church
trees kids, kids whose parentswent to Tusculum, who came up
(11:36):
there, that sort of thing. And alot of them went to the area
school being Overton HighSchool, and the the feeding
middle schools. A lot of themwent to the McMurray Middle
School where I went, at thetime. I went off to a magnet
school called Houghton Fogg, andI was kinda the only one there
from that, but a lot of myfriends from Overton were still
(11:58):
there. I think there was a, ahandful of folks from right
across Bullying and RutherfordCounty, in kind of the Smyrna,
La Verne area.
But I I really think there was asegment not so much on schools
as it was, like, the kindaraised in the church group and
the group that kinda came in outof the parking lot. And it
(12:20):
wasn't, like, vicious oranything, but I think there
there was kind of a 2 differentcircles there.
T.J. (12:27):
Yeah. Distinctive. Mhmm. What about your interaction with
the adult Christians in thechurch? Was there any overlap
between the youth and theadults?
Taylor (12:45):
So for several years, I would say there was not. And
it's I don't blame anybodybecause I didn't get involved in
camps or, any kind of theextracurricular stuff for quite
some time. I just went toWednesday night. So there was,
miss Terri Gray, who's awonderful woman, still serving
(13:06):
NAACP church, I believe, and,Tyler, and those were pretty
much my adult interactions forseveral years until I probably
got into maybe college andstarted attending Sunday morning
service.
T.J. (13:22):
Interesting. The connection to the Christian
faith was solely through theyouth group.
Taylor (13:30):
Mhmm. Yes.
T.J. (13:33):
I am wondering and this is a broader question. I'm
wondering how the church canstrengthen the relationship
between the youth and the adultswithin a faith community like a
congregation?
Taylor (13:53):
This is maybe where I'd speak more from my youth
ministry being a youth ministerdays than being a participant,
because I'm gonna own that I wasa hard headed kid. I wanted to
do what I wanted to do. Probablystill have that problem today.
But I do remember the experienceof being done with youth group
(14:16):
and most of the people notcoming back for Sunday morning
service. Or, they even had ayoung adult group going for some
time with Nathan Wheeler, and Iwould say the majority of my
friend group, so to speak, mycircle did not come to that.
I mean, their experience withthe church kinda stopped and
ended with graduation. I stuckaround, but, yeah, it was that
(14:39):
was kind of difficult. And I forgoing into my youth minister
days, I really wanted to putmore of an emphasis on including
kids regularly in service. Wedid youth Sundays, but I think
that's always kind of apageantry sort of Sunday. Let's
look at the kids.
(14:59):
Let's see how great they are.We're so proud we have them. But
now we're back to the regularscheduled program next week,
which you're not a part of. AndI think that's problematic in
that if it's just sort of apageantry Sunday once a year,
you're not really integratingkids. You're you're you're sort
(15:21):
of celebrating them once a yearor twice a year, however often
you do it.
I'll say Clarksville got reallygood. I was the youth minister
at Clarksville for, 6 years. Gotreally good about integrating
kids into at least the liturgistposition, which gave them a
role, and some of them werehelping with usher
responsibilities. And justseveral roles they had around
(15:43):
the church that I thought was astep in the right direction.
T.J. (15:48):
This may not be problematic in a smaller
congregation that is or thatconsists more of a family led
church where a child or youth isintegrated at a young age in
worship and leadership roles.Anyway, I believe it's a
discussion that we could behaving.
Taylor (16:11):
Yeah. I I try to put myself as much as I can. I've
worked in churches regularlysince 2012. So, I mean, I guess
that's 12 going on 13 years now,you know, the majority of my
adult life. But I try to putmyself in the shoes as church
attendee tailor.
(16:33):
If I'm not the pastor, I'mwalking into a church. And I
can't speak for everybody, but Ican speak for what I think I
was. And, you know, I alwayswant something that's relevant,
and I want a community thatlooks like me, but I also want
connection with people who areolder with a lot of wisdom. And
(16:55):
so I think that's the strugglein a lot of our CP churches to
begin with, is that some ofthose tools that I think Taylor,
the attendee, would want, wejust don't have the resources
for sometimes, the amount ofpeople there. And I really
haven't figured out a greatsolution to that, kind of a
(17:17):
chicken or the egg scenario.
You know? Do you need youngpeople to get young people, or
do you build a program and theycome? You know, is it filled of
dreams? But, I'm I'm sort of abeliever. You need you need
young people to invest to getmore young people to invest, and
that's a that's a trickysituation I haven't figured out
at the start to.
T.J. (17:38):
Mhmm. And then I believe that there is a reluctance among
many congregations to considerhaving faith conversations
outside the confines of thechurch structure and the church
building.
Taylor (17:57):
I did an experiment, I'll call it that, a few years
back, and I I honestly justended it because attendance,
waned pretty quickly. But Itried doing something, and I
called it The Table at the time,not knowing there was a church
in town called The Table, whichme and that pastor talked, and
she was actually quitewonderful, but she didn't have
(18:19):
any issues. But, anyway, theidea was that we could go and
discuss anything. We'd we'd havea a set topic for the week, and
I would try to let them steerwhat we were gonna do each time
we met. We try to do, I think,twice a month, and we would meet
at, like, a, brewery, arestaurant, or something, you
know, kinda take this.
My thought was take the stigmaoff of. So if you wanted to
(18:43):
order, an alcoholic drink,you're welcome to. If you didn't
want to and just wanted to eat,you could eat, but we're all
gonna sit there and discuss. Andthey were really, beautiful
times when we were able to doit, but I think I also caught a
another one of those situationswhere we had a person group that
was just so lopsided. I had, youknow, an 18 year old and a and a
(19:05):
38 year old at the same table,and they're in 2 different
situations.
And, you know, I think the 18year old could remember the 38
year old being their counselor.And so I think there was that
sort of scenario, plus, I mean,just a lot of obligations where,
(19:26):
maybe we didn't have quite thetotal buy in from everybody that
we were hoping for. So, it wasdefinitely worth worthwhile to
try, and there's something coolto it, but and I think under a
different scenario, I think itwould actually work again, but
it's another one of thosechicken or the egg scenarios.
T.J. (19:47):
There is beauty in experimentation and the
recognition that we move throughseasons of life. Believe that
our needs change as we change.And one of the challenges
resistant to recognizing changeis the distinction between
(20:11):
growth in faith and churchattendance. Church attendance or
lack thereof is often perceivedas an act of disobedience. And
church attendance or lackthereof often is perceived as a
(20:32):
reflection upon the ministry ofthe minister.
Taylor (20:38):
Well and, you know, there's a we don't like to use
this word. We like to pretendlike we can ignore it, but there
is a business side to the churchtoo, that, you know, pays the
grocery bill and gives us ouryearly review. And those things
(20:59):
oftentimes, are based on metricspeople can see. And so I think
sometimes it's a really hardbalancing act to sort of please
the metric or or work towardsthe metric of, like, attendance,
membership, giving, but do it ina scenario where we are acting
(21:24):
faithfully in doing what I wouldjust call good ministry.
T.J. (21:30):
And then there is the aspect of the individual who
will say, I am a person of faithbecause of my church attendance.
Taylor (21:45):
Yeah. Yeah. And I I to be clear, I don't think,
attendance is a direct equationto faithfulness or or
servanthood. I mean, I, youknow, I believe very genuinely
that my parents were and areChristian and love god, even
(22:05):
when they didn't attend churchfor years years years.
T.J. (22:10):
Let's go back to your senior year in high school. How
did you decide your college andyour career path?
Taylor (22:26):
I wanted to just go somewhere that had a big campus
with a lot of options. And so Iwanted to be able to sort of
explore different ideas. And, Iwas a diehard UT football fan,
but, actually, I did not get inthere. And I wound up at Middle
(22:47):
Tennessee State University,which I had a very good
experience with. Loved it.
Would recommend it to anyonewho's thinking about it. But I
wanted to have a pool ofdifferent degrees, a large
community of people to try andmeet. I just wanted that
(23:09):
experience so badly. I wanted toknow something and someone
different than what I had known,and I think I got that in so
many ways from that experience.I think I was exposed to a lot
of new ideas that I couldappreciate even if I didn't
agree with.
T.J. (23:28):
How did you choose the path of social work?
Taylor (23:36):
So going into college, I knew from the get go, I wanted
to go into wanted to go intoseminary, so I was I was a
weirdo. I knew right from day 1I was going to seminary. And the
basic understanding I had wasyou have to have a degree. It
doesn't matter what it's in.Started out initially declaring
(23:57):
as a public relations major,lost interest pretty quickly,
and just kinda looked around.
I thought honestly, I startedgetting into practical terms.
I'm like, okay. What's a degreethat seems useful, could do
something similar to what Iwanna do without being
completely useless at thebachelor's level, which might be
(24:18):
a joke on me now because thebachelor's in social work's
nearly useless now too. That's amaster's level program for most
people. But so I I was alwaysintrigued by psychology, which I
wound up minoring in, butthought social work would be a
much more, practical degree.
And and I did learn some thingsthat actually informed ministry,
so I was glad I went into itbecause it was about you know, a
(24:40):
a large portion of social workpractice was connecting people
to resources, and, we learnedinterviewing skills, and not not
like job interviewing, but Idon't quite say counseling, but,
you know, interviewing, talkingto people, skills like that. So
I found some of that useful, andinformative when going into
(25:05):
ministry. I thought what couldbe sort of a a supporting degree
for ministry.
T.J. (25:11):
Walk me through how you entered into youth ministry.
What was your thinking? What wasyour process?
Taylor (25:23):
I think from a young age, I realized the amount of
critical decisions that youngpeople have to make and the
support that they need. Reallyencountered a lot of friends who
had been through a lot of traumain my young age. You know, I've
had friends who revealed to me,I mean, terrible abuse from
(25:44):
sexual abuse to physical abuse,in their lives, and, you know,
they confided in me at the time,and I thought, you know, how
could you how could you at leastbe a positive space for people
like this in the future? BecauseI wanted to be a positive space
for them as a friend at thetime. Knowing what I know now,
(26:08):
probably should have reported acouple things, but, you know,
when you're 13, you don't knowthese things.
T.J. (26:15):
Even at the age of 13, you have your peers who are seeking
you out and confiding in you.Mhmm. Looking back into your
life, what do you think thatsays about your character when
you were younger?
Taylor (26:33):
It made me feel trusted, and I I think you know, I have a
stoic, really crass sense ofhumor. But at the same time, I
think the compassion I have forpeople shines through. The care
I have for people shinesthrough. And so I think that's
(26:57):
when I became aware of that asone of my strengths, and I'm not
a person who is very confidentin a lot of my strengths. Like,
I'm not good at any sport.
I'm not particularly great atany instrument. You know? I've
filled around with some things,but there's nothing I'm gonna
get up and do a talent show foryou on, which is a bit of an
(27:17):
insecurity for me, honestly. ButI'll say the ability to work
with people and be compassionateto people felt like the first
time I felt like I was good atsomething. And so it not only
shined a light on that, but itkinda gave me meaning.
T.J. (27:38):
I wonder if it is your nonjudgmental demeanor tone, the
way you carry yourself that is aunique way that makes you
approachable? Yeah.
Taylor (27:57):
I'll say I'm not without my faults, but I do my best to
try to not jump the gun onanything and just listen. And if
somebody's been throughsomething that's rough, I mean,
just just take it and and andprocess it. This is maybe my
soapbox, but maybe me becoming acurmudgeon. But one of my my my
(28:23):
recent just complaints with I'lljust say society. It's a word I
I don't know if I came up withit, but I'm calling it outrage
culture.
Watch the Olympics. Right? Wesaw something we didn't like. We
got online, and we and I say we,I just mean society, bashed it
into the ground. Right?
We we reacted. We didn't take inthe information. We just
(28:46):
screamed, we have a problem withthis. How dare they? And then
another thing happened to theOlympics.
And we screamed, this is unfair.We don't like this. We didn't
even have all the information.And then some of us stayed
willingly ignorant when theinformation on that came out,
which is even more mindbogglingly, problematic. And I
(29:07):
see this not just saying youshouldn't have your convictions,
by all means, have yourconvictions.
But, man, we'd benefit so muchif we would just slow down, take
some information in, process it.Don't feel the need to respond,
and then figure out what we haveto do to make the world better.
(29:30):
And sometimes making the worldbetter with things like that is
just being silent, and it's justlistening. Now I know this is
you know, when we deal withOlympic athletes, these are,
like, people who are not in ourimmediate sphere and realm, but
I think this is verytranslatable the way we talk to
people. You know, someone tellsyou something that maybe even
(29:50):
offends you.
And trust me, I can get offendedwith the best of them, and I get
my feelings hurt easy. But Ialways do better if I take some
time and process and think andpray and come back to it. And I
find my responses are usuallyfar more level headed, far more
(30:13):
kingdom building than they willbe if I go off my gut reaction
to something.
T.J. (30:19):
I wonder if those who have experienced trauma are able to,
in a unconscious way, findothers who have also experienced
trauma and develop a bond or acomfort in a shared or similar
experience. And for some, maybeeven take a risk and seek out
(30:45):
understanding and empathy to aidin their healing.
Taylor (30:53):
No I mean I hear you, I mean we talk about like ideas
like religious trauma is kind ofa popular ideal ideology these
days and sometimes I seepeople's first responses. We
need to defend the faith againstthe religiously traumatized.
Right? Like, so the church isbad to them. They're saying
something bad about the church.
(31:13):
Let's defend the church. I'm abeliever that god doesn't need
defending. And I think ifsomeone shares something like
that, it's worth listening to.I'll say even just going through
different types of pain. Youknow?
Going through a a divorce around29, 30 years of age, in my
(31:40):
experience was one of the mostpainful things I've been
through, emotionally. You know,I thank god for people like
Dusty Luthy who, without I mean,I don't think she would mind me
saying she's been through adivorce. She was a good friend
to me through that time andreally helped me because she had
(32:01):
walked that road before me. Andnow when I encounter people who
say they're going through adivorce, I hear that so
differently than I ever heardthat before I had gone through
that experience, and it hasreally informed the way I hear a
(32:22):
lot of pain differently now. Idon't wish that I went through
it.
It was awful, but, I do think ithas helped to build this sense
of compassion. And I do thinkthere is sort of this mentality
with a lot of people where it'slike, if I've been through this
and you've been through thistoo, we can help each other. I
(32:45):
think that's where we get ourprobably our groups like AA, NA,
you know, PTSD type groups forsoldiers. But sometimes just
going through a trauma and justunderstanding how hard that is
can help us with some other typeof trauma. You know?
(33:06):
I don't know what it's like togo through extreme mental
illness. I know what it's liketo have anxiety. I know what
it's like to have something inmy mind going on that I can't
control. So while I can't fullyunderstand what you're going
through, I can sort ofunderstand how your brain not
being in your control can be ascary thing.
T.J. (33:25):
And it can remove feelings of isolation.
Taylor (33:31):
I agree.
T.J. (33:34):
You mentioned a calling into youth ministry.
Taylor (33:37):
Mhmm.
T.J. (33:38):
Now you are serving as a senior minister at the Saint
Luke Cumberland PresbyterianChurch in Nashville. Did you
have thoughts while doing youthministry of expanding to
ministering to all generations?
Taylor (33:57):
Well, so ordination was always on the docket for me. My
main reason for wanting to beordained is I wanted to be able
to baptize, feed communion, and,do weddings for youth. It was
always centered around youth. II was convinced I was gonna do
that forever. But I went aheadand got the MDiv because I said,
(34:19):
you know, what if?
Life's big, so I thought m thethe masters of divinity is
useful for both areas. I did notpicture going into pastoral
ministry, And now that I havedone it for I think we're coming
(34:40):
up on 5 years coming up on 4years no. 4 years. Excuse me. In
so many ways, they're they'redifferent, but very similar.
It's just a new way of doing thework I was already doing.
T.J. (35:01):
So the focus has changed a little bit. So maybe instead of
preparing a weekly sermon, youwere preparing a youth
Taylor (35:12):
lesson. Youth lesson. Yeah. Well, and this is kind of
a tongue in cheek thing I I tellpeople, but, you know, I talk to
young people and they're like,oh, there's so much drama now.
And I said, buddy, let me tellyou, people don't get less
dramatic as they get older.
They just get cars and money. Imean, it's it it it is sort of
(35:32):
tongue in cheek, but, I mean, Ican promise you. I can I for
every dramatic 14, 15 year oldyou can find, I can find you a
dramatic 65 year old? I mean,it's and and they're wonderful.
I love them both.
But there's not what's the word?There there's not as much
(35:57):
difference between those groupsas people might think. You know,
the music taste, the moviedifference, the the restaurants
they go to might be different.But when it comes to, like,
processing life, we're allcarrying around our own junk.
T.J. (36:11):
Processing and how will we react to engaging life? Maybe
you're right. Maybe there aresmaller differences than we give
credit to between a 17 year oldand a 77 year old.
Taylor (36:31):
And someone may be screaming if they're listening
to this, screaming at the phone,be like, absolutely. He's wrong.
I'm like, that's okay. That'syou can disagree with me. That's
fine.
T.J. (36:42):
While you were a student in seminary, were you engaged in
any type of ministry or just afull time student?
Taylor (36:53):
Yeah. So I served on paper, it said 27 hours a week.
I have no idea how to calculatewhat that actually was. But,
yeah, so I served atClarksville, Cumberland
Presbyterian, through my entire,seminary career and then a few
years after it. My role gotexpanded to be associate pastor
(37:18):
over children and young adultsafter I graduated, but during
seminary, it was solely justyouth ministry.
So it it was really it wasreally wonderful, because I got
to, you know, on the jobexperience. I did I did work for
2 years prior to that at aMethodist church. I went through
(37:38):
the Center For Youth MinistryTraining. Unfortunately I mean,
there there was a lot of goodexperiences, but it was it was
not going well overall there.So, I mean, it was just after 2
years, it was time to go.
And then Clarksville just fellinto my lap, and it was a it was
a really beautiful experiencethat I'll I'll cherish forever.
(38:00):
Those kids there, man, they're Igot to see a couple of them the
other day, and, like, I don'tthink they know how much. I just
get so proud and just smile whenI see them just exist in a room.
T.J. (38:12):
Any memorable stories in the history of your youth
ministry? A youth event, a youthtrip, a lesson that you led that
has stuck with you through theyears and you recall back
fondly.
Taylor (38:35):
Yeah. I'm just trying to think, should it be funny,
negative, or positive? Because Igot probably one for all of
them. I'll say this. It's kindageneralized statement, but, and
(38:55):
this will also boost up my mygood friend, reverend Lisa Cook.
We started getting involved withSacred Sparks while we did 30
Hour Famine, which if you're notfamiliar with 30 Hour Famine, is
a fundraising event where thekids will go and not eat for 30
hours and do service work. Andso we started, getting involved
(39:17):
with Sacred Sparks. And yeah,thank you. Good idea. Sacred
Sparks is at the time, the theway it operated, Lisa Cook, were
still works for these people,but worked with, homeless and
extreme poverty groups ofpeople, helping with different
(39:41):
needs that they have.
So she would go into camps, likehomeless camps around Nashville
to help with people with thingsthat they needed, which could be
so various. I mean, her she doesnow and probably back then was
laundry, but she would alsohelp, you know, organize people
to clean up certain areas ifthey needed it, try to get
(40:03):
furniture, try to get propanetanks. Like, I think Lisa would
tell you her her ministry isholy chaos, and it's evolved a
lot since those days. But at thetime, yes, she she was, she
would arrange something for whenour kids would come into town,
we would typically do somethinglike clean up, around a homeless
(40:24):
camp, or or people were campingbecause there's there's no legal
spot to camp, but some of thelandowners would turn a blind
eye to it if the camp was kepttidy and everything like that.
And sometimes things gettrashed, so they would come pick
it up.
They would but she would alwaysfocus on building having a time
where the kids could buildrelationships with the people
(40:47):
she served. And the compassionthe kids had so naturally
towards everyone was, I think, aa a glimpse into heaven. You
know? It was there was no nojudgment in the eyes of the
(41:09):
young people. There was no,questioning what choices they
made.
What are they doing with intheir free time? There was just
this general want to understandand to love. And so those are
the moments I hold on to with alot of pride when working with
kids. Had a lot of wild thingsto talk about, but I don't wanna
(41:35):
embarrass any of my former kidsso I think I think their their
dignity deserves to bepreserved.
T.J. (41:44):
Taylor, it could be said that youth group is a safe
training space to prepare youngpeople to engage more in the
world. I wonder though if wehold that belief upside down and
it is the youth who are cleareyed about the world. From your
(42:10):
experience, what has the youthtaught you about faith, life and
the world?
Taylor (42:29):
There's probably more things than I can name but
there's just I have this reallyreally, this moment where
someone a kid kinda threwsomething back in my face in the
most in the most appropriateway. We were closing our, youth
group meeting time, and we justdid prayer requests at the end
of it. And, at the time, my mymy then wife had a car accident,
(42:52):
and it was a hit and run sort ofscenario. Someone had hit her
and drove off. And this, thisthis young guy looks up at me.
He goes, hey, Tyler. Didn't youalways tell us we should pray
for people who do wrong to us?Shouldn't we be praying for that
whoever it was that hit hit yourwife? And I was like you know, I
(43:14):
had to pause for a second. I'mlike, yes.
Yes. You were right. That isexactly right. And that was not
going to be on my mind thatnight. At the time, it was very
fresh.
So kind of that moment ofrealizing they're always
listening and putting that backinto your head and teaching you
(43:35):
at times to follow God's wordwas there. And then I think, I
like people watching. I lovedwatching some of my kids find
ways to be passionate to eachother or to other people, and I
would do no justice in trying toname that in specifics right
(43:58):
now. But I, you know, I I alwayslearned a lot just from the way
they kinda navigated theirsituations, and I could just be
a fly on the wall at times.
T.J. (44:12):
Taylor, serving the church as a youth leader first and now
as a minister, what are yourhopes and aspirations for the
Cumberland Presbyterian Churchin the years to come?
Taylor (44:31):
That's a hard question or a hard thought. I'm sorry. I
I I gotta own that. I've beenbeen I don't I don't know if the
(44:52):
word pessimistic is right. Andsort of having a pity party
about the division, thefragmentation, separation from
each other.
That that part is distressing,and it's left me with the
(45:13):
question of where will there bea CP church 5 to 10 years from
now? I I don't know the answerto that. You know? I hope so,
but I know my hope for thechurch in general is that we
(45:35):
just don't give up on trying newways to share possible. I think
one of the things that hashaunted us beyond our current
arguments that we have overtheology is we can be
dogmatically loyal to ourtraditions.
(45:58):
And some of those traditions arejust things like our
instrumentation, our order ofworship, and we will do it to
our own detriment sometimes. Andso my hopes for the CP church is
that we're willing to kinda letgo of some of what has always
(46:21):
been to try to really do abetter job of understanding how
we can share the gospel to theworld in front of us right now.
My current ministry in SaintLuke, Cumberland Presbyterian
Church, which is a it's a smallchurch filled with just
wonderful people, people who areare are loving, compassionate.
(46:47):
They like to throw around theword nonjudgmental. And to their
credit, I think they embody itfairly well.
But I think they we have alsorealized that we have been sorta
stagnant in the way it was for along time. You know, slow to
(47:07):
change, slow to, slow to kindamodern updates that I can't say
for sure, but might have helpedsome things along if they were
gotten to a little bit earlier.Just things like having a
website, a presence on theInternet, you know, having, I I
(47:29):
don't know, because COVID wassuch a wild time. But even right
now, we're we're kind of in the,we're in the phase of asking the
question after we've had abuilding hit by tornado and
rebuilding it. What what are wegonna do when we build back?
Are we, you know, are we tryingto go back with the same thing
and keep doing the same old,same old? But I think, I think
(47:51):
we're really pushing towardsdoing more. I mean, that's why
we've started the house, Youknow, until the tornado hit, we
were housing Sacred Sparks,Loads of Love Laundry Ministry,
which provided laundry for folkswho needed it 4 days a week.
We've, started housing a jointworship service with, Lisa Cook,
(48:14):
Lisa Oliver, Andrea Gutierrez,all all 3 are reverends. Excuse
me.
I should have addressed them asreverend, but all 3 of those
reverends and myself helpingout, that is ministering to a
Hispanic population, which wherewe are is very large. And it
wouldn't take you 5 seconds towalk into Saint Luke and realize
(48:36):
there's not many Hispanic peoplein our church. You know, so I I
think these are at least smallefforts, and I gotta attribute a
lot of it to Lisa Cook and LisaOliver, which I jokingly call
them good Lisa and bad Lisa.I'll let you figure out which
one's which. So theirwillingness to wanna start
something.
I'm just lucky enough to be onthe receiving end in our
(48:57):
building. But I think these arethe the images of God, the the
little glimmers of hope, thelittle little taste of the
kingdom, things that arehappening that give me some
sense of hope because it's doingchurch in a nontraditional way.
It's really outside the box, andI'm just, again, lucky enough
(49:19):
that we can house it.
T.J. (49:21):
We've been talking about the Saint Luke Cumberland
Presbyterian Church. Taylor, doyou mind giving some context to
what has occurred in terms of anatural disaster to the
facilities?
Taylor (49:38):
Sure. So, on in December in Nashville, there were some
tornadoes that had come through.We're in Madison, which is a a
northern part of Nashville. Whenthey had come through, they had
come very close to our church,and our our church is kinda
shaped like a giant u with the,like a sideways u. So the front
(49:59):
end having kind of the oldsanctuary, which is where the
the kids' school is, a hallwaythat leads down to the
sanctuary.
And if you a hallway straightback from the sanctuary that
goes into a building that wecall the Family Life Center,
which had all of our Sundayschool classrooms, the laundry
room, and our gym, and ourfellowship hall. That backside
(50:20):
of that u, the building there,was impacted by the tornado
coming through. It actuallycreated something called
negative pressure, which I gotto learn about, that actually,
instead of blowing the wall in,sucked the exterior wall out and
then also sucked the adjacentwall inside the gym out and
basically ruined the entirebuilding. So kind of the
(50:44):
backside of our u, which wasactually the the largest part of
our building, has beendestroyed. So when the when the
structural engineers camethrough, basically said they had
to tear, let's just say, 90% ofthe building out for the
rebuild.
(51:04):
We basically had to close offthat part of the building, kinda
like moving from a big houseinto a small apartment in some
ways. Lisa Cook had to relocateher ministry over to Brush Hill.
Temporarily. We're looking tohave her back. It also displaced
a narcotics anonymous meetingthat we had here, hosted here.
(51:27):
But so at this point, they'vetorn everything out. There's
kind of a wall and a staircaseand sort of a brick structure
back there, but the roof iscompletely torn off. Most of the
walls are torn off, and there'sa big concrete slab in the back
of our building. That tookseveral months to get started,
(51:48):
because it was hard to find theright contractor. And at this
time, they have said they willstart the rebuilding process
come October, November 2024 thisyear.
And from there, it could takeanother year to another 18
months to rebuild. So we're justkind of learning to operate in
(52:08):
the front half of our building,which is cramped at times, but
we're making it work.
T.J. (52:15):
The Family Life Center there at Saint Luke would make a
fantastic skateboarding park.
Taylor (52:22):
Oh, it would. It would. But we we have some some ideas
going forward. We wanna we wehave one of those old carpeted
gyms, which I'm sure plenty ofour CEP churches still have. And
I I if if there's anything I dowanna be judgmental about, it's
whoever decided putting carpetin the gym was a good idea.
(52:45):
I think that is a tool of thedevil because they are awful.
They hold every puke and foodstain that's ever spilled on
them, and they become disgustingover time. But, anyways, we're
gonna go back with a with annicer floor, and we're hoping to
use it to serve the community,to host some some basketball
leagues, or to host, differentthings for people to just come
(53:06):
in and and have our facility notjust exist here, but be a place
that people can can use. Andhopefully, we'll encounter some
good folks who who, maybe wannago on this faith journey with
us.
T.J. (53:19):
Alright. Thank you for the update. Taylor, I'm aware that
you are a fan of music andmovies and books. From each
category, name one that hasenriched your faith.
Taylor (53:40):
So faith wise, I always go back to the rock band, Bryce.
I have especially a a goodrelationship with an album they
had called Beggars, and Iactually wrote one of the songs
off of Beggars into a curriculumfor CPYC 1 year. It it was it's
(54:03):
just such a beautiful album. Nowif you're not into their type of
music, so be it. But, the thelead singer, Dustin Kinsruh,
he's not a, they are not a,quote, Christian band, but it's
very obvious through theirwritings Dustin Kinseru is a
Christian.
In fact, Dustin has gone on tobe a song leader for, some
(54:25):
church. I don't know which one.But as far as a faith forming
album, I have always, always,always loved Thrice, which, you
know, they've got they've gotmusic that kinda ranges from
sort of I hate to say punk rockbecause it's not really punk
(54:45):
rock. I I'm a real snob aboutthe way we label things, but I'm
trying to think of what's goingto actually communicate. Let's
just say it's rock.
Okay. We'll leave it at that.Movie world. Would it would it
need to be a faith movie? So I'ma giant nerd.
(55:10):
It's kinda like what's the movieI'm watching right now. I think
I'm always gonna have a anattraction to Star Wars and to,
like, the old nineties Batmanmovies and, Jurassic Park and
all the stuff I grew up on. I'ma nostalgia junkie. But I think
(55:31):
Star Wars, were were suchcomplex stories. And I know Star
Wars is such a broad categorynow, if you follow it at all,
because, you know, there'scartoon series, live action
series on Disney plus.
There's movies. I mean, it itgoes on and on. But if you just
watch kind of the, we'll say,the baseline 9 movies, I think
(55:53):
there's always been a lot ofjust great lessons to learn from
there. And I'll and I'll I'llthrow in one little extra thing.
You say TV.
I am a I am a pro wrestlingnerd. I know you didn't really
ask about it, but, I am eventrying to I'm even sort of
(56:13):
freelancing with a local prowrestling company, not as a
wrestler, I'm not athletic.Let's be very clear about that.
But trying to do some ad spaceselling and stuff for them and
selling shows, And I think assilly as it is and pro wrestling
could be over the top, that'skind of its its baseline. It's,
(56:35):
you know, it's storytelling.
It's a theatrics show. Butthere's always a story of you
know, there's always, like, abad guy, what we would call a
heel, and a good guy, which wecall baby face, or a bad girl
and, you know, good girl. Butwhen a when storytelling's done
(56:57):
really well in wrestling, eventhough it always kinda centers
around a violent match, there iskind of this upward, up the
hill, overcoming the odds battlethat I think is always just so
life giving to watch sometimes,and and I've just always enjoyed
it. I'm trying to get some ofour Sacred Sparks kids to a some
(57:18):
of the kids that come in forlaundry. I'm gonna get them to a
a local show that's gonna have afew big name talent on it, but,
I mean, the reality is peopleshould watch pro wrestling,
everyone should enjoy it, but Iknow they're not all gonna do
it.
T.J. (57:32):
Alright. Well I may have to stretch here just a little
bit, but wrestling and StarWars, each of those carry a
redemptive arc.
Taylor (57:47):
Yeah. Absolutely they do. Wrestling's just so
episodic. There's so manystories going at once that
there's always something new.
T.J. (57:55):
Right. Right. And I believe it's human nature to be
drawn to a good redemptivestory.
Taylor (58:05):
Absolutely.
T.J. (58:07):
Alright. How about a book or a novel? Ugh. This is
Taylor (58:14):
where I'm gonna get in trouble. I'm not a big reader,
outside of when I have to, but Ihave always had an affinity for
a good classic that I'm sure alot of people have read, which
is Mere Christianity by CSLewis. If you ever just wanna
hear some good thoughts abouthow someone came to the
(58:36):
conclusion of faith, I thinkhe's very good. I'll I'll do a
little swerve on you. I'll gowith the podcast.
One that has been intriguing me,and I I can't say I agree with
everything that comes out of it,but there's one called Data Over
Dogma, by a scholar named DanMcClellan, who is oddly enough a
(59:02):
Mormon. And I didn't think Iwould be sitting to you
recommending a podcast from aMormon theologian, but I I find
his work to be very intriguing,and I think there's a lot of
informative stuff there. And Ithink for my pastor friends and
(59:24):
maybe maybe any church consciousperson. There's a book we did,
it's very short, called Autopsyof a Deceased Church. The
author's name is alluding me atthe moment, but, I think it's a
very comprehensive way to, like,analyze your church.
T.J. (59:42):
Do you think, anyone can pick up this book and be fed by
it as well?
Taylor (59:49):
Oh, yeah. We we we attempted to read through it
with a person, and there's asequel book to it called, I
can't remember, it's likeAnatomy of a Thriving Church or
something like that. I may beway off in that title, but it's
the same author. But there, Imean, you could sit down and
read the whole book in less thanan hour.
T.J. (01:00:09):
Both a digestible and a quick read.
Taylor (01:00:14):
Yeah. Yeah. It's, I I I prefer people to be short and
sweet. We don't need to read,you know, Karl Barth on
everything.
T.J. (01:00:25):
Taylor, thank you very, very much for allowing me to
hear your Faith's Journey andfor being a guest on Cumberland
Road.
Taylor (01:00:38):
I really appreciate the time to be here.
T.J. (01:00:42):
Thank you for listening to this episode of Cumberland Road.
If you wanna hear other faithjourneys, you can find
Cumberland Road on its ownwebsite, on Apple Podcast,
Spotify, or your favoritepodcasting site. In closing, I'm
gonna read from the authorMarcus Borg and his book,
(01:01:03):
Speaking Christian. These twovisions of Christianity, one,
emphasizing the next world andwhat we must believe and do in
order to get there. The other,emphasizing god's passion for
the transformation of thisworld. They are very different,
(01:01:25):
yet they use the same languageand share the same sacred
scripture, the same bible. Whatseparates them is how the shared
language is understood, whetherwithin the framework of heaven
and hell Christianity or withinthe framework of God's passion
for transformation in thisworld. Thanks for listening.
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