Harvey - It is Well with my Soul

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
As well with my soul written by Horatio staffer .
And he wrote that his story wasthat he was a wealthy Chicago
businessman. He and his, he andhis , uh, wife were , and their
five kids, or six kids,something like that, were
taking a trip to England on aSteamboat. And , uh, and , uh,
at the last minute, somebusiness interruption came up
and he had to stay. He sent hiswife and kids kids on England

(00:22):
without him. And , uh, and theship ship , uh, sank somehow.
And all of them , all of 'emdrowned except his wife lost
all their kids. And she senthim a telegram saying , uh,
shipwrecked I alone was saved.
She didn't name their kids. Ialone was saved. And so they
lost all their kids. So , uh,he wrote this song after that

(00:43):
about his trauma after losing,losing their family. And it is
well with my soul no matterwhat the trauma out there. So
that's been one of my favoritesforever,

Speaker 2 (01:00):
When great .

Speaker 1 (02:02):
I love that music that just, it's just so,
Christin just builds and buildsand such strength. It's , uh,
really affirming, isn't it?
Well , I got a lot of those oldhymns. I really , and I'm , I'm
no musician at all. I , I grewup on a farm and we had a piano
in the house, but piano was forgirls, not for boys. You know,
I , I , I can find middle C ,but that's about the end
. So I have no , no ,no musical skills at all. But,
but I really, I really like ,uh, uh, going to music, theater

(02:25):
and symphony and , uh, trulyliked that very much. 'cause
she was very musicallyinclined. And so we, we , we
went all the time. And, andthis, this is well of my soul.
That just reminded me of some ,many of those musicals where
the , the songs are just socaptivating. You know, just,
there's so much, so much lifein 'em and so much, it's just ,
uh, it's just great to go itjust to redo 'em , redo 'em
over and over and over , youknow, very popular that I , I

(02:47):
love music and , uh, to my, mylimited knowledge of it,
limited the exposure, but , uh,wanna do start my , my
spiritual life and my , myjourney in that regard. Um , I
don't get a chance at churchand Sunday school to
pontificate on his some . But ,um, but , uh, it , it's hard
to, you know, you , you can'tjust stop somebody, shake 'em
and listen to me. I gotsomething to say, you know,

(03:09):
, that's kind of whatI'm doing to you now. I got
something to say, ,it's difficult to, it's
difficult to, to , um, to say,wanna say, say what I wanna say
without, without , uh, firstoff feeling of being a
hypocrite or second off. Uh,it'll be misunderstood or , uh,
or that I won't convey it. LikeI wanna convey it, that that's
my problem. I won't convey itlike I want to convey it. I

(03:30):
know what's in my heart. I knowwhat I wanna say, but sometimes
I can't, can't , uh, eitherenunciate properly or, or say
it so that the so what's on myheart really gets out there.
But what I do wanna say todayin , in this, is that , uh,
that , um, I think start offwith kind of a self-analysis.
In other words, you know , I'm95 years old. That's a few
years, you know, and, and whenyou, when you start back

(03:52):
thinking of years, first off,I'm blessed to be , be given
that many years. But , butsecond, you know, you gotta
look around. Or I have in myown my own perspective, you
know, God, why am I here? Youknow, you know , you gave me
another day, , what doyou want me to do today? You
know? And , uh, that's kindasobering. You know, you , you
think, okay, I get up and lookaround and there's nobody
demanding my services, . There's nobody depending on

(04:16):
me for , for something today.
You know? So why am I here?
What am I supposed to do? Youknow, what , what , what , what
, uh, what can I use this dayfor? Or what can you use me
for? You know? And , and , uh,that's a , that's really a
sobering thing. And you turnaround, okay, what , what's
next? You know , what am I , amI wasting my day? You know, am
I doing anything that because Ilike to do it or I wanna do it
or feel I have to do it? So it, it , it's just , just

(04:38):
sobering to think that you lookout there and look, look what a
peaceful world it is. You know, like you , what , what
a what a wonderful day, Louisarms. What a wonderful, what a
wonderful world. You know, see,and it is, it's a wonderful
world. And , uh, there are ,there are opportunities for
pleasure, opportunities forservice. They're just all
around you , and you just haveto pray that, that your antenna
will be up to, to recognizewhen there is one of 'em there,

(05:01):
you know? And , uh, sometimes ,uh, you get the wrong signal.
But , but if, so, you, you do aretake and . Let's ,
let's, let's , let's think thisthrough again. But , but today,
have an opportunity to sit downand just just reflect on, on,
on where I've been in my, in ,in my life. And , uh, again ,
uh, uh, I like to start off bysaying that I come from a
family of very strong Christianfamily on my mother's side and

(05:24):
my father's side. They wereMethodists, I guess, all the
way back to John Wesley. Uh , Idon't know how far back, but
our family goes back fromArkansas to Kentucky to
Virginia. And , uh, and , uh, Idon't know, don't know anything
about the people who lived inVirginia, but , uh, but , uh, a
lot of 'em , a lot of 'em camefrom, from Kentucky , uh, and ,

(05:44):
uh, Bullock County, Kentucky,and , uh, another county there.
Some of 'em lived in, I forgotthe name of it now , Baron ,
I'm not sure. Anyway, he camefrom Kentucky to Arkansas, and
they homesteaded and , and ,uh, 160 acres that , that I
grew up on was my, mygrandfather's homestead had to
give , I think his fatherhomesteaded it. And , uh, 160

(06:04):
acres of farming in southeastArkansas, which is flat, like
country, like wi it alwaysaround here. It's not the pine
hills. So , uh, had had deeproots there. And my
grandfather's name was EdwardHarvey. And, and therefore,
that's how I got the nameHarvey. So Harvey is a family
name, and , and there'ssomebody other Harvey's back,
back before him, you know, soHarvey's been throughout the,
the , uh, and , and my mothernamed James is from my other

(06:26):
grandfather on my mother'sside. So I got my two
grandfather's names. Butanyway, growing up in that, in
that community , uh, methodchurch in a Baptist church,
that's all, no Catholicchurches, no other two
churches. We , we wereMethodist. But our , our roots
go all the way back. And, and ,uh, and uh, in fact, I don't
have any proof of this, but ,uh, folklore says that , uh, at

(06:46):
one of my uncles in Kentuckywas a circuit rider, rode
horseback between, between hisparishes. 'cause even even my
day in Arkansas, we couldn'tafford a full-time preacher.
So, back in Kentucky, a hundredyears before that, you know,
nobody could afford a preacher.
You , so you , you were tenderat horseback ready to go from,
from , uh, community tocommunity on a horseback and ,
and , and , and preach it ,preach a sermon, you know? So

(07:08):
he was a circuit rider, and ,um, I don't even know his name,
but , um, but that, that's beenhanded down. And then the other
folklore, which I have no proofof at all, but it's handed and
told me by my 105 year old Aunt , lived to be 105, said
that one of , one of the , oneof our great grandmothers on my
father's side, great, greatgrand , was one of Abraham

(07:28):
Lincoln's school teachers inKentucky. And , and people say,
well, how could that be inKentucky? Abe Lincoln is , he
was the senator from Illinois.
He was, he was a , he was Abe ,Abe from Illinois, you know,
but checked on his ancestryand, and his family lived in
Kentucky until he was eightyears old. So , uh, he did come
from Kentucky. And so I canbelieve that story's right, but
, uh, but I have no, there's nodocumentation of it anywhere.

(07:51):
But anyway, it's kind of a tiedto Abraham Lincoln, 'cause he's
one of my favorite, you know ,um, heroes of the past, you
know, think of his life at whatadversity he, he lived through,
how he overcame obstacles.
'cause he did, he , he hadfailure after failure as an
attorney, even to get into thelegislature. And, and he, he
just had to keep pullinghimself up, but bootstraps over

(08:11):
and over and over again, youknow ? And , and , uh, it got
to the point where , uh, and ,and , uh, I said that
Gettysburg address is just, Ijust like to reread it
frequently because of he saidso, so little, you know? And I
think one of the great landsfrom it is , uh, the , uh, the
world will a little note nolonger member of what we say
here, but it can never what bewhat these dead soldiers did

(08:34):
here, you know? And I, I thinkof that. And , and , and he was
severely criticized by thepress for great moment of the
Civil War battle, the greatestbattle of all times, thousands
died, . And here , he ,he , he's, before the
microphones got this time, and, and he , he got up and said,
talked two minutes maybe on theget . And that became one of
the most famous of all speechesof all time. But, but , um,

(08:58):
what a humble man, you know,the world with a little note
and our longer member of whatwe say here, see how, how
important am I? You know, youknow, you know , but, but like
you say , uh, I have a hardtime keeping a straight face on
this. But, but, but you , youjust have to know that God has
you here for a purpose.
Certainly nobody doubt that Godhad Lincoln there for a

(09:19):
purpose. He saved the union,you know? And , uh, one of the
greatest things , I come from aslave state. So one of the
greatest things I think fromeverybody was that , you know,
Abraham Lincoln saved theslaves, and he's a hero for the
slaves. And , and gosh, Isupport that a hundred percent.
But, you know, so he's, he'sone of my heroes. And , uh, and
, uh, and I can't , uh, infact, in fact , uh, my grandson

(09:39):
wanted What a good said , getme any book about Abraham
Lincoln's life. That's what Iwant for Christmas .
So, so, so, anyway, I justthink they're , they're
examples that lived on beforeus. And, and you say, well, why
were they there? And why were,they were , God, I think God
used Abraham Lincoln . He was aman for the time. He just was,
and I think he did save theunion, or he was a very, very
prominent, prominent force insaving the union. So I , I'd

(10:01):
like to , I'd like to championhim wherever I can. Just makes
me feel good. And , uh, andmore on the theme of what I'm
trying to talk about is that ,uh, why am I here? And , uh,
and you , you stop and thinkabout it , uh, uh, how did you
get chosen to be the one thatbring , bring to life? And here
, you know? And, and that seemsso, so in the , in the realm
of, of , um, you know , um,predictability or, or , uh,

(10:24):
occurrence , uh, just , justone in a million that you're
here, but you're here. And, andonce you're here, you've gotta
really , it's not by accident.
It's not by accident thatyou're chosen. You're, you're ,
uh, you , you , you maybe weresingled out by God to be here,
you know? So, so if you believehere, what you're here, and ,
uh, so first off, you wannathink, well, well, I'm here and

(10:45):
I've got to do my part. I'vegotta do my thing. I , I've
gotta , gotta conform. Youknow, remember the family, your
responsibilities and learn.
Then you , then you have to,you have to provide for your
own family. And, okay. So , uh,those , all those things just
kind of move you forward and,and , and , and keep you, I
guess keep your nose to thegrindstone. 'cause things you
have to do to, to provide foryour family and , and things

(11:06):
just, just to , just to existand be here as a human being.
But , but , but under all is it, you know, God created you,
you know? And , uh, so keepasking yourself, what, what ,
what am I here? And what am Isupposed to do today? Maybe
this is one of the things Godwants me to do. I don't know
how valuable or interesting itwould be to anybody, but , uh,
but certainly I want to knowthat. I want everybody to know

(11:26):
that , uh, I recognize God forwho he is. And , uh, and as I
said, I grew up as a Methodistand baptized in the , in the
Methodist church as a young kidwith, you know , everybody went
to church, all kids went tochurch back in those days, you
know, it was so, so much adominant part of the community
that even the farmers did notfarm on Sunday. Sunday was a

(11:47):
rest day. And that's completelychanged now, because when the
grains ready to be harvested,it must be harvested today. It
might rain tomorrow, you know?
So, so Sunday's a work day ,like any other day down there.
Now it's just, it's different.
But back in those days,everybody took off, and Sunday
was a work day . Sunday was a ,a rest day. So, so I was
baptized in the church justlike everybody else, but I
didn't really have a comp tocome to God moment until

(12:09):
sometime later. And I think Iwas about nine, maybe 10 years
old at the time. But , uh, butsuddenly, I don't know what the
occasion was, but I justremember , uh, in our , in our
farmstead there, we had lots ofthings like, you know, barnards
and barns and, and , uh, fruittrees and and orchards
and , uh, and a vegetablegarden where, where , where we

(12:31):
had grew lots of vegetables ,huge garden, just grew all
kinds of vegetables. That'swhat we lived off of. And, and
, um, then we had a , um, um, apotato patch, which is
separate, where we just grewpotatoes. 'cause potatoes is
the main staple, staple crop,staple vegetables. So that ,
that was year round , you know,you could preserve those
potatoes and have , havepotatoes year round . I just
jumped over the fence , sumreason there at that potato

(12:52):
patch. 'cause it'd be fencedin. And , and , uh, and at the
top of the fence, I said, mygosh, what, what , what's
happening to me? What's, what'sgot a hold of me? And I just, I
couldn't believe all of asudden , uh, I just didn't seem
to have any direction. I didn'tknow what to do. And , and ,
uh, and I just looked at ,looked up and says , God, why
am I here? You know, that'swhat I'm saying today. Why am I
here? But that , that , thatwas a come to God moment for

(13:13):
me. I didn't , uh, I dunno whatbrought it on. I can't remember
that. I just remember that wasa come to God moment of sitting
on that fence there. And , andit , it brought tears to my
eyes. I just couldn't say,well, God, tell me what I need
to do at that time. I says , Iwant to do what you want me to
do, and I don't care what ,what it does to anybody else. I
wanna do what you want me todo. And, and I went, went on,
went on home. And I rememberthat same day I talked to my,

(13:35):
see , my mother died when I wasa baby. So I never , my , my
stepmother was my real mother.
And so I told her, and she wasjust, thank God she was,
everybody back there was adedicated Christian. There
weren't any, any peoplecharades or anybody you don't
know, they're walking, butthere's never any evidence that
they, that they're a Christian.
But back there, just , justautomatically, automatically,

(13:56):
everybody went to church.
Everybody believed in God. Andit was just a , it was a what
you called a Christiancommunity. So I told her, and
she just says, praise the Lord.
So she, she just, and she's theonly mother I really had ever
really had. So , so , and then, then she died when I
I was, I was about , uh, 13 or14. My dad lost two wives there
at early age. had ninekids, but two wives, and lost

(14:17):
both of his wives there . Andthen remarried later, later
married . He , he was thelongest marriage of his life.
And, and that was a , somebodyelse who was a widow in the
community that he had known allof his life. And so we had a
good life. But , but anyway, inthe family there of , uh,
growing up in a communitywhere, where church was a
social life as well as theentertainment, it was, that's
just where , where , where ,what everybody did. So we had

(14:40):
good , good Christian roots and, and no question about it.
Just , just good Christianroots. And , and I have no
doubt that , that my mother andmy father in heaven, I have no
doubt that, that , uh, mysisters and all of 'em are
just, just as dedicated as Itry to be. You know? And so, so
we have re reunion every year,Scott , back from one in , in ,
uh, Sheridan , Arkansas , uh,just Labor Day weekend a couple

(15:00):
weeks ago. And that, thatfeeling is still pretty much
there. The only thing is thatthe lady cousin, whose house we
had, it says, told us, theysays , check your religion,
politics at the door. We'regonna talk about either one of
'em , you . But theyare , they're very, so I bowled
out here , this like,well , I think 30, 35 of us
were there. And so on Sundayway at 10 o'clock, I bowled out

(15:23):
and went , went to church, andwent to church where these
people go to church. But theyhad so many things to do with
the country union that theyskipped church that day. But
anyway, I went to , went tothat church where they belonged
to. And , uh, and I was theonly one there. But, but it was
a , it was a good thing to, tosee. They , they , they had a ,
had a older audience.
Everybody. There was probably,probably, I know maybe 50

(15:43):
people there, I'm not sure. Butthey were all old people like
me, almost no kids. Only, onlyI think three little girls were
only kids there, you know , . So, I , I say that
because I'm contrasting towhere I grew up as a kid and
what , what I see today, evenin my own church, you know,
there's just no children, noyoung people. There are no ,
no, almost there . You know,there , there are few, but

(16:05):
almost none. And almost nochildren are maybe at a maximum
of , on a day with the mostkids, there would be more like
maybe 10 or 12 maximum. Andmost of those were in Hispanic
families. 'cause Hispanicfamilies still have a lot of
children, you know ? Anyway , Imentioned that, just 'cause
that's one of my observation onthe times we live in the today
and had contrasted thecommunity I grew up in, in

(16:25):
Arkansas, and what I express .
But I, I still thank God for,for my roots. And I'm, I'm
rambling on and on about, about, uh, acknowledging why am I
here and, and , uh, what is thepurpose? And , uh, and I think
that , uh, the , the, theanswer keeps coming back. Is it
? Well, if I'm here today, Iought to be witnessing where I

(16:46):
can and say , how do youwitness? Well, I can't put a ,
a billboard on my side and walkup and down the sideways say ,
you know, praise God or or , or convert or die. 'cause
that would be a very, veryineffective way of
demonstrating who you are andwhat God is. You know, you,
you've got to, you've got to ,uh, as Jesus did, mix with the
people and , and , and try andtry to show them the way. You

(17:10):
know, not that I know, the way,I just know how I feel about it
that way may not be the way foryou or, or , or anybody else,
you know, but, but at least Ifeel like, why am I here? I'm
here to try to show the wayhow, how I have , uh, benefited
immensely from it. And , uh, infact, there is , there is no
alternate there , there , therejust no , there is no
alternate. You know? And , uh,and , uh, I I look at the , at

(17:33):
the world today and, and , uh,the conflict over there in , in
the mid East here. I guess youdon't call it a religious war
per se, but it really is inmany ways , uh, because it's
the , it's the Jews versus theMuslims, you know? And , uh,
and , uh, and I had a , theJews just annihilated the , the
Muslims in the six day war,just overwhelmed them , blew

(17:53):
'em off their face of the earthalmost. And at they , at that,
at that same time, one of the,one of the , uh, Arabs from ,
uh, from , uh, Alexander Egypthappened to be in Wichita
visiting Willard . And he wassafe from, but, but I remember
he said to me, he says, hesays, I know this conflict
seems, seems , uh, to have noanswer, but he says, how do you

(18:15):
tell an Arab my family, whohave been in this house on that
same location, documented for850 some years? How do you
tell, how do you tell us wecan't live there? You know? And
, uh, and that reallydemonstrated me, the intensity
of the conflict. You know, allof a sudden, all of a sudden ,
uh, the Jews came in and tookover. And, and, and , uh, so ,

(18:36):
uh, this is, this is , uh, Ithink God tells us it's not my
problem to solve, but it's myproblem to observe anyway, that
, uh, that , uh, there arereligious forces working in the
world. And , and , and only Godcan solve 'em as far as I'm
concerned. But, but how do youtell an Arab , but he can't
live there. But also, Moseswaited 40 years to come into
that land . That land waspromised to him by God, 40
years in the wilderness,billions of people, I dunno how

(18:59):
many, but I think one or 2million that 40 years in the
wilderness wandering around tofinally get to the promised
land, which God promised them.
So, God, you know , why did youpromise the land to 'em and
give us all this conflict? Youknow? Well, I don't, I think
even just said, you know , myway is the way, but my way is
not easy. And all and all ,it's not always easy. So , uh,

(19:19):
you will have, you will have ,uh, moments of , uh, trauma or
, or mo moments of , uh, of ,uh, I guess, I guess you say,
come to God moments or you'llhave moments of , uh, of , uh,
conflict out there in theworld, and do I do this or I do
that? You stop and ask . Yousay , well , well , well , what
would Jesus do? Or what wouldGod do? So, so I think that's
a, a guideline that kinda helpsyou all along, but , but it

(19:41):
still demonstrates what, whatthe conflict still out there in
the world, you know? Uh , uh,and , uh, and I don't know the
answer, and I don't think Godrequires me to be the answer,
but I think He , he doesrequire me to, to , uh,
recognize these things. And ifthere's anything I can do to
avoid conflict that I can do to, to , uh, show the way, then
that's what I wanna do. So Ithink, think my conclusion is

(20:03):
that , okay, I'm here. So I'mhere to witness. And how can I
witness? Well , uh, there ,there are lots of ways. But,
but , but, but I think if, ifyou have it on your mind, I
think before the day is over,somebody will come across your
path that you can witness to it. It just always happened . It
might be at a grocery store, itmight be anywhere, you know?
And I find in the neighborhood, uh, just , just just

(20:24):
yesterday for instance, nextdoor neighbors are, are , uh,
from , uh, the old country,Serbia. They're yugoslavians
and they, he's a lifelongengineer at beach. And they're
my age here , a couple yearsyounger than I'm, but both of
'em are very decrepit. Hiswife, kin , when they , I , I
walked out to say hello totheir son, I didn't even see
him . They were sitting out onthe front porch to get, get

(20:45):
some sun fresh . So all of asudden , uh, uh, they're ,
they're Serbians, you know? And, and they , they've been here.
Oh , they've lived in thathouse 20 years or more, 30
years maybe. But, but , butanyway , just , just an
opportunity to visit with 'emand , uh, and get to say, okay,
you know, I , I'm , I'm here'cause God has me here. I don't
know why you're here, but youknow, it's good to nine , five

(21:06):
years old. Why am I here? WhyI'm here? Because God wants me
here, you know, , and,and I don't know what message
that got to, but , but all of asudden, that was a , that was
an opportunity to witness, youknow, and, and completely
unplanned unserved . I justhappened to walk out to get a
breath of fresh air and lookedover, and he was picking up
some trash. So I walked over tosay hello to him. I didn't even
see, I didn't even see hisparents sitting there. So all
of a sudden, here's, here's achance to witness. You know? So
I think if you're, if you're,if you're , uh, attend to it

(21:29):
that , uh, that , uh, that ,uh, you will find it . And ,
and if you aren't careful,you'll miss some of those, you
know, you , there was anopportunity and it went right
by me . I , I , I didn'trecognize it, you know? So, so
I think that kind of wanted to, as I say, keep your antenna
up . Uh , but as I say here,it's right , right . Hard to me
even talk about this and saysome of these things with,
without the feeling that, that, uh, when I say even someone

(21:51):
like you or anybody, that thefeeling that even my fandom
members , okay, dad, you'repreaching , you know ,
or you a preacher, you know, or you God's message .
You're , you're , you're ,you're acting like you're,
you're pontificating something.
You're not, or acting like youhave a, you have a right to, to
impose these things on me. So I, I want to avoid any idea that

(22:14):
I feel like I'm a preacher, andI can tell you what's good for
you, and, and you ought to bedoing what I say. You know? So
it's , it's difficult. It'sdifficult to, to , uh, position
myself in , in that. And , and, and again and again, I think
one of the ways it helps on itis , is to discover scripture I
brought , brought the Bible.
'cause I do have some talkabout some of them. But , but I
think spending time in theBible and how other people have

(22:36):
, have , uh, have , uh, contcontingent these problems or
opportunities that I'm talkingabout, how other people have
handled them , uh, I thinkthat's, that's very
encouraging. It's, it's , it'sjust a , it's just a guide. It
helps . And the , the mainthing on that , that witness
part is that , uh, if you, ifyou aren't careful, you know,
what you can do would causesomebody else to turn off God,

(22:58):
or, or as they say, causesomebody else to stumble, you
know , somebody else to say,well, that was a , that was a ,
uh, his life doesn't show hisdiet . Life doesn't live out
what he's saying. So , so Ithink that's just an admonition
that God puts out there to becareful. And , but on the
scripture side, the thing thatI wanna get to, most of all the
reason to be here, you know,the reason to agree to this

(23:19):
with you, is that I think mymessage is that , uh, you're
comfortable with yoursalvation. I'm comfortable with
my salvation. I don't , Idon't, I don't worry about
dying today. I don't wanna dietoday. I think there's too many
things to do. I wanna talk toyou. I wanna go to river next
Monday, you know? And so, so ,uh, everybody knows we wanna go
to heaven. Yeah, I wanna go toheaven, but not today. You

(23:40):
know, that's, that's the oldadmonition. So , uh, uh, uh,
you , uh, you just, you justhave to somehow, and another ,
but , but , but , but, but the, the , the scripture that gets
me, and that's the one thatguarantees your salvation, and
it's Romans 10, nine, and I gowith King James version. That's
one I'm most comfortable with.
I like all the others too . ButI always find myself going back

(24:02):
to the king version, kingJean's version. That's the one
I can quote when I can quoteanything. But , but this one
says, if you confess with yourmouth that Jesus says , Lord,
and believe in your heart thatGod raised him from the dead,
you will be saved. And I thinkthat's the , that's the message
the world needs to hear. And ,uh, if you, if you believe in
your heart that he is Lord, andthat he saved you, you, you,

(24:24):
you know, one of you , you,you, you will be saved. And,
and, and , uh, to me, to me,that's your, I would say,
that's your ticket to heaven.
And, and it's a noncountableticket, you know ? And, and to
me, it's a , it's , um, notreversible. There a feeling out
there about some people in theworld . They may , okay, well,
he , he was saved, but he losthis salvation. Well, if you

(24:46):
lost his salvation, myinterpretation and my belief in
this, he never had it. Youknow? 'cause if, if you believe
in your heart that God raisedyou from that , that , that God
raised Jesus from the dead, youactually believe it. I think
that that's irreversible.
There's , there's no turningback. I even think to the point
that if, if Hitler had you on awitness stand, and you said, do
you renounce Christ? You couldsay, yeah, I renounce him, but
God wouldn't believe that. Youknow, he , he knows what your

(25:08):
heart is. You know ? So I thinkthat, that , in a way, it's
kind of the old admonition thatonce saved, always saved .
Well, I believe that. But somepeople use that as , uh, you ,
you , you , you , uh, you'recategorized as a Christian, and
all of a sudden you're whatthey call a backslider, sliders
, you know, a back slider . Youknow, I , I , I , I , I can , I
was going on right ? With , nowI'm backing around back ,

(25:30):
coming back to try this allover again. You know, I , I
don't like, I don't like thatterm. I don't, I don't like
that. I don't , I I don't knowwhere it has application,
because either , either youbelieve it or you don't believe
it. And if you believe it,okay, then accept the rewards.
You know, the rewards is okay.
Uh , I come from southeastArkansas. Tornadoes were a
scary thing. Back in my youngerdays, they had no tornado

(25:52):
warning systems. There was noradar there . No radio, hardly.
They had some radios, but therewas no tv. There was no
advanced warning of anything.
Also, tornado season, spring ofthe year, you know, tornadoes
would come across southeastArkansas. And they were deadly.
And I was visiting one of myaunts on my mother's side, and
they lived in a town about Palm, Arkansas, about , uh, oh , a

(26:14):
hundred miles southeast ofwhere we lived. And , and my
aunt, which is my mother'ssister , uh, was telling a
story about a tornado, camethrough there . That , that
year. And about that time, Iguess, I don't know when it
was, but I knew I was a kid.
Maybe, I dunno , maybe 7, 8, 10years. I don't how old I was,
but maybe I got to go visitthem . Stayed there with 'em
for Christmas week . And , andshe's talking about tornado
season. And , and , and one oftheir neighbors came, I

(26:37):
remember this just like it wasyesterday, said, he, he came
running down the road and said, save me, save me, save me.
'cause they had a storm cellar,you know, . He was
running down this road, saveme, save me, save me, .
And she says, why in the worldwasn't he asking Jesus to save
him? I does . He think I cansave him? So that , that , that
really stuck on me. Why didn'the ask Jesus? Isn't that, isn't

(26:59):
that pathetic? Save me, save meof a grown man. So that really,
really, really had a , had amark on my life. And I still,
the fact that human beings outthere, you know, get themselves
into a pickle and don't knowwhat to do, and, and it's just
saved me, saved me. ,helpless, helpless. When, when
it's so easy, take you 20seconds. It's so easy. So easy.

(27:21):
And then I made note here. Uh ,I just think that, that , um,
you have to be prepared to, to, uh, stand up for what you
believe in. And, and it's soeasy to think that if I speak
out, well , other people ,other people question my
motives. And , uh, and again, Idon't feel like I'm trying to
be a preacher. I don't feellike I have any calling from
God to be that kind of amessenger. But, but I do. I

(27:42):
said earlier, I , I , my mainthought is that , uh, through
all this rambling, is that , isthat I still feel that, that ,
uh, God wants me to have myantenna up so that , so that ,
um, every day he will give meopportunities to witness. And ,
and I wouldn't even recognizeit sometimes. And so I pray
that I don't miss any of thoseopportunities. And I pray that
when I do speak out, I don'twant to misunderstood , be be
misunderstood for . I don'tthink, would you'd be taking

(28:03):
your time out to, to make thisrecording or whatever. You're ,
whatever you're doing here ,uh, at least, at least , uh,
you're recognizing somethingcould be significant. Not, not
earth shattering, not that theworld is waiting for it, or ,
or, or even , uh, is aware ofit or wants to be aware of it.
But , but still, it's anopportunity. And one of those
things that I , I wanna , wannakeep , uh, at the forefront of

(28:24):
everything , everything I do,so that I don't, I , I , I
never miss an opportunity. But,but if the world just knew
that, that , uh, instead ofthis save me, save me, that
just recognizing that, that allyou have to do is just believe
that Jesus is Lord, and Godraised him from the dead. All
you gotta just , just believeit. And He's , he's here to
save you. You, you, you, you,everybody. And, and there's

(28:45):
evidence that he's done so muchin the world during his
lifetime, and in the historyof, of God's, God's presence on
earth, all these, all theseyears. Uh , how can you not
believe he can do all thesethings? How can you believe he
can? He created this world.
Some came up today, and I'mamazed that there still comes .
They're gonna come up tomorrow.
You know, he made it, you know,he made it. Can you believe

(29:06):
that? Alice ? Alice ? How , howdid it get there? You know? How
did , how did , how did youknow , you know, the blade of
grass out there, you know, isall of , all of all of
creation. All of creation, justat his footstep. There's some
other scriptures I'd like to, Ithink, that are really
important. But , uh, uh, Romans10, nine, and that's not here.
I'm making so much about that.

(29:26):
And that's, that's not Jesusspeaking, that's Apostle Paul
speaking, Romans 10 , nine .
And he was the greatest centerof all times, I guess,
persecuted in the church. Andhe was , he was converted. And
, and here I'm talking about myconversion. Well, I like to
talk about it too, but , butwho wants to hear about it?
But, but he talked about it allthe time that he was the chief
of sinners. You know, hepersecuted the church, and yet

(29:47):
he, he had a come to Godmoment, and he was proud of it.
You know, so, so , uh, I thinkthat , uh, uh, that his message
to us is, is just, just so, soroute on and to me world , why
, why can't you understandthis? Why can't you? Why can't
you? Because because you havepeace no matter where you are,
have a tough time holding backto tears. You have peace no

(30:09):
matter where you are, whatyou're doing, what your
circumstances are, who you'rewith. You know , you can have
peace everywhere. It might be,it might be, but, but, but all
, all of a sudden could . And ,and that piece comes because,
you know, you recognize thatyour time on earth is just a
few days, just a short time.
And that's one of my ver verseI'll get to in a minute. But,

(30:30):
but, but, but we are createdfor eternity. Forever. Forever.
And you have a choice whereyou're gonna spend it. You
know? It's so easy. And that'sso important. 'cause that's
forever, forever. And, and youjust wanna shake everybody and
say, don't you understand?
Don't you understand? But butyou also have to recognize, he
put us in a world where we havechoices. He didn't make us like

(30:51):
him or love him, or convert andacknowledge him. He gave us a
choice. And I think that's oneof the things that sustains all
of us . Freedom of choice.
Free, free. We we're set free.
So you have free, because hecould have made us puppets, I
guess he , he , he could havemade us, but if , if , if he
had made us so that we allconvert or, or recognized him

(31:11):
as Lord, he , he , he could, hecould've, I guess we'd just
been an angel fluttering aroundthe fluttering around the
environment, you know? And we'djust be puppets, you know? But
I think he threw us out thereand gave us freedom of choice.
And he wants us to make thatchoice. And if we make that
choice, then, then he comes inand gives us rewards. And like,
I think he's sustaining me byputting, putting opportunities

(31:32):
before me to witness. So that'smy, I may have a hard time
keeping a straight face here,but , but I think , uh, uh, it
comes back to that's being ,being , being my purpose. And ,
and some of the best knownscriptures that I like to talk
about is, is that , and ofcourse, the , the , the
greatest of all of 'em thatalmost everybody knows
Christian Rod . And that's Johnthree 16, for God so loved the

(31:53):
world, and he gave was an onlybegotten son. I think almost
everybody. And that's, that's ,uh, apostle John speaking. And
, uh, I guess it wasn't anybodycloser to Christ than Apostle
John, because he , he was theone that, that was divine. He ,
he , he had it all together. He, he , he , he not only had all
what all the three others had,but he, he just had a dimension
that was far greater in, in, inthe , the , the divine

(32:15):
relationship of God, the man ,and what heaven's all about. So
I think that, that , that saysan awful , awful lot. Another
one I like is that , uh, which,which demonstrates salvation.
'cause he just comes right outand says, you know, this is
Paul speaking of the wages ofstandard death. But , but God
is eternal life. You know ? So, so , so that's very, very
succinct. The what you gainfrom living a sinful life is

(32:37):
eternal death. You don't, don'thave any promise or reward. The
problem with the society todayis that , oh, I recognize that,
but , uh, but , uh, I'm notready to, I , I can't come to
grips with that now. You know,I just, and , uh, and , uh,
like , like the one guy says,but yeah, I hear what you're
saying , but I got plenty oftime. I don't have to get
involved in that. Now. I gotplenty of time. You know, the

(32:58):
guys had plenty of time. Maybethe , maybe the tornado waiting
over the hill, you know, . And so, so there are
all kinds of extreme examples.
But, but you have to meetpeople where they are. And ,
uh, and , uh, and sometimes I ,I think I'm privileged because
I grew up in an environment, aChristian environment, where I
think all these things wereprobably explained to me better

(33:19):
than, and , and I guess avoidedthat. But I never had to come
to grips with, you know, oh,well, yeah, that's good for
you, but I , I'm not ready totake on that now. Well , okay,
sometime , and even some of mymembers of my family, I think
kinda in that category, youknow , but , and then getting
out of a , the four gospels and, and , and , and Paul and
Romans, we can go to go toTitus. I guess Paul wrote Titus
as well. But anyway, again ,Tim , Timothy, Timothy says,

(33:43):
says that , uh, the holyscriptures, which shall make
you wises and to salvationthrough faith. So here's,
here's another, I should say,disciple of Paul. He and Paul
were , were great friends here. He's saying that the Holy
Spirit is the way and makes menwise to salvation through
faith. You don't get any otherway. You just have to believe
faith is believing. So you justhave to believe. And I think

(34:04):
that further undergirds my , mythought that , uh, there is no
other way in , in another one,Ephesians 2, 8, 9 says, for by
, by grace , you have beensaved through faith, not of, of
your own self-belief, not of inyour own self doing , I guess
you say it is , it is reallythe gift of God. I think over
and over and over again,salvation is a gift of God. You

(34:27):
are just free to accept it. And, and then again, one of 'em
just says, do not grieve theHoly Spirit. 'cause with the
Holy Spirit, you're sealed untothe day of redemption. So it
means once sealed, you know,it's not reversible. That's
over and over again. You know,it's, it's not , uh, he's a
backslider. He lost hissalvation. No, no. You don't

(34:49):
lose it. You know? And , uh,that is such a comforting
thought back to during thisscene. You know, you no
matter what happens, you know ,uh, as , as , uh, as , uh, I
think Paul said, you know , uh,to, to, to live as something,
but to die as Christ, you know, meaning to, to live as what
the word was, he said, but tolive is to celebrate the day .

(35:10):
But if I, but if I, if I, if Idon't live, I'm better off. And
we don't know why we're betteroff. But God says, there are no
tears in heaven. There are notears in heaven. And I think
there'll be different levels oftears of existence. I don't
know how to explain there ,even think about it, but I
don't expect, I don't expect tobe sitting next to also Paul or

(35:30):
Billy Graham orwhoever. I don't, but , but you
don't worry about it. You don'tworry about it. You know, you ,
uh, because there are no tearsin heaven. And, and , and you
know what your rewards are ,but you will have rewards. And
you're there. I made it. You're there. You
know, and, and , uh, and you'renot sorry for it. You know, you

(35:52):
know, you're happy that you'rethere and, and things gonna be
okay. And, and , and if youbelieve God made this world,
God can do anything. So he canmake it okay. It's gonna be
right there. It's okay. I'mthere and it's gonna be right.
I'm going to , I'm gonna likeit. See, so, so why, why, why
worry about , about , uh, about, about , uh, where I'm gonna
be , you know ? Like I wouldn'tbe comfortable sitting next to

(36:14):
Billy Graham anyway. I don'tsuppose I'd like to do that.
Maybe to say, sayhello, and, okay, I love, I
love what you're doing, but,but I don't expect to be, be ,
uh, I , I , I think there aredifferent, different, different
levels of rewards. You know, Ido, I do think there are, and I
think that, but I think God hasa way of handling that, you
know, okay, he rewarded BillyGraham. He'll reward me, he'll

(36:35):
reward anybody, anybody whoaccepts him. So I can
pontificate by that all daytoo. And it's , uh, difficult
to , uh, structure it. So thathas some meaning. But, but ,
well , again, there's anotherone , John one, nine, John is ,
uh, this is getting away fromPaul again, but says , if we
confess our sins, he isfaithful and just to forgive
our sins and cleanse us of allunrighteousness. So God takes

(36:58):
care of the dirty stuff in ourlife, you know? Okay. We we're
, and , and the stuff that wemight be doing out there
that's, that's not honoringhim, okay? He'll, he will, he,
he will make it easiest , easyfor you to give it up, you
know? Okay . It's something I'mdoing that , uh, somebody else
might perceive, doesn't honorGod. Well, okay, it's easy to,

(37:18):
there really won't be a problemto , to go his way. It , I'm
not giving , I'm not doinganything. I , I , I , I don't
want do it . It's just I'm not, I'm , I'm , I'm not being put
out. I'm not being bothered.
I'm , I'm doing something andhe'll make me like what I'm
doing. And , uh, it says , uh,this, this is , uh, uh, well ,
I , James, I think what I wannaget to in a minute, Jane , but

(37:39):
that a sobering thought of oneof 'em was that whoever turns a
sinner from the air of theirways will save them from death.
And , uh, so I just think thatjust underscores what the
gospel's all about. You know,converting sinners and who is a
sinner, you know, sinner's, notone who, who drinks and
corrales. He , he's one whoignores God, you know's one
that says , I can do withoutGod. You know, I've got plenty

(38:00):
of time. I've got , got plentyof time. Then I think that ,
uh, you , I keep going back to10 , nine as a , a non
constable ticket to heaven.
Nobody can change it. And thisis one that moments of weakness
or feeling it that , uh, youmay be left alone is one I I ,
I got from my pastor to MikeGarden at the church, and the
time in my life, back 30 years, I still work at five 30 years

(38:21):
ago. And I went into him andsaid , well , I've been, I , I
pray every day . And I've been,I've been , uh, I've been
concerned. And , and it says,it , it , it bothers me, and I
need to talk to you. I says , Ijust feel like that I'm praying
and I'm busy back , stillworking, had a ton of things to
do. And , and I don't know whatall, what all was my concerns
of the day, but it was enoughthat it about me. It went on

(38:42):
for several days, I recall. AndI just felt uneasy, couldn't
get a grip on myself. And so Iwent into minister and just
wanted , I said, wanna have afew minutes to talk to you
about it? So he listened to mevery, very attentively. And
then he pulled out a scriptureand read it to me. And the
scripture was, was in Romans 826. And this is one, I don't
think everybody's always verymuch aware of it . You don't

(39:04):
think of it too often, but itsays, and likewise, the spirit
also help us, us, in ourinfirmities, for we know not
what we should pray for as weought to be praying for, but
the spirit of God itself willmake intercessions for us with
groanings, which cannot beuttered. So have a tough time.

(39:24):
But so what that scripture'ssaying is that to me is that ,
uh, when you don't know how topray or what to pray about, God
will pray for you. The Spiritintercedes with groomings,
which cannot be uttered. Inother words, you don't even
what to say, but, but if you'rea believer, God is there with
you all the time. So that,that's a , a come to God moment
for me. Uh , years ago, therewas a , there was a Baptist

(39:47):
preacher in town that , uh,where the, that huge church
right across the river on , onDouglas there, metropolitan
Baptist Church, I believe itis. But that was split off from
the Baptist Church downtown on, on North Broadway there,
right across from MethodistChurch. And this guy was a
very, very charismaticpreacher. And he, he , he
brought the whole congregationover with him, and he was just,
he was just a , uh, and , and ,and they were on, on the , on ,

(40:10):
on radio broadcast on radiomaybe every week, I guess, for
a while there. Anyway , hisname is FB Thorn . He came down
like a Billy Sunday, I guess,just show fire and Brimstone,
Baptist . And , and he, he had a sermon one time on,
on the five Mper of theGospels. And , uh, and I had
those written down somewhere,and I remember 'em , and I

(40:30):
couldn't find 'em any of myarchives anywhere and never
could find 'em , and stillhaven't been able to find them.
But, but his imper is wherethat he's talking about Jesus.
And he says, he says, and thisis , uh, there in, gosh, I
don't have a number writtendown, but anyway , they're in
the gospel of John, and it sayshe must increase, and I must
decrease. That's Jesusspeaking, that that's , uh,
John speaking, Jesus must bebrought, brought to the

(40:52):
forefront, and I'm a humanbeing. You know, I'm , he ,
he's the reason for me to behere. So he must increase. And
, and then, then Jesus said, Imust need to go through
Samaria. His trip throughSamaria was where no Jew went.
You know, Samaria wasanti-Jewish country and , and
up in northern Israel. And ,uh, the Jews would purposely
travel around Samaria to get upto the north. Jesus says he

(41:15):
must need to go throughSamaria. There was a reason,
and his , his trip throughSamaria was he met the woman,
Samari , Samari woman at thewell. And where, you know , uh,
you want water here at this.
Well, but, but , uh, I'm theone who gives living water. I'm
the one who give you water forlife. You know, you get water
for the day, but I'm the one togive you water for life. So
that's, it's quite a dramatic ,uh, expression of what, what

(41:36):
the Christian life's all about.
And, and he, he , uh, he mustneed to go through scenario .
That was a , that was ascripture verse . So he , uh,
he , uh, I think, I think todemonstrate what Jesus went , I
was way to , to, to, to, Iguess you say, not witnessing,
but to , to proclaim who hewas. He is the way, and that he
met the woman as well. And, andthere were other others. And I

(41:58):
don't, I , I can't find 'em .
So I googled what are the fiveimperatives , and the
five imperatives were , uh,they , uh, believe in Jesus,
abide in him, love one another,bear fruit, and follow me.
That's what Google says thefive imperatives are. So what's
Google know about the Bible?
You know , but , but that's areal realism of, okay, what ,

(42:21):
what's right at yourfingertips. You know, what does
Google know about the Bible?
? Well , they came andsee , not , not one of 'em
mentioned it to imperative. Ihad and I've been
searching scripture and tryingto find out where they were,
and I can't , I can't find them, you know? But anyways , what
? But I thought that's a pretty, because , because you
know, the , the greatestadmonition of Jesus is to love

(42:42):
God with all your heart, withall your mind, and with all
your soul, and with all yourstrength. That's what he said ,
love God. That that's , that's, that's the criteria you love
God. And everything else willfall in place. And , uh, other
favorite scriptures I like tomention is that , uh, one of
'em is John 1633, and he says,these things I have spoken to
you that ye may have peace, nomatter, no matter where you

(43:04):
are, what you're doing, youbelieve these things I've said
to you, and you'll have peace.
And , and I've been kind of afavor of Mike Pompeo, or ex
congressman, ex administration,CI director, and I've met him
at the Derm Club here a coupletimes, and my picture made with
him. And so Mike peo posts postpolitical fundraising events
for trying to raise funds fortheir , for their cause. And,

(43:25):
and , uh, he, he posts ascripture with a lot of his,
this is one of his scriptures,you know , , you know ,
uh, and , uh, and I , I thinkthe reason he's doing it's
'cause I think that there is somuch discord in the political
sec , the , despite hispolitical triumph, you can't
have peace. So I just, it justpicked up on the fact that I ,

(43:46):
I like that scripture, and he ,and he , he picked up on it
too. And I love this one again,I gotta say, you know, for ,
you know, not what shall be ontomorrow, you know , not what
tomorrow will bring. It is evena vapor, which appears for a
little while and then vanishesaway. So all of a sudden, nine
, five years of my life, youknow , gee, you know , you
don't know what tomorrow'sgonna bring. You know what ,

(44:07):
you know , nine , five years issuch a short time in the scope
of , scope of things, such ashort time, you know ? And
we're here on the earth. And ,and , and , uh, as a , as a ,
who am I trying to quote? Now,here's another little testimony
I wanna give it . Uh , I don'tknow where to start or stop
with these things, but , but I, I , I can't sing. I'm no
singer, but there's a song thatI've never even been able to

(44:29):
find the words to it somewhere.
But the , but the , uh, the ,the course of the song is, is ,
uh, when life is over. But itsays, the course goes like
this, must I go there emptyhanded ? Must I meet my savior
soul, not one soul with whichto bring him? Must I empty
handed go. So, so when youdepart the life, you know , uh,

(44:50):
am I gonna , yeah , I don'tknow what life's gonna be, you
know, the next, the next absenthere , absent the body, present
with Christ, you know, absent,absent, present, you know,
bingo, just like that. You're ,it's gone. So I don't , um, but
, but to go there empty handedand , and , and , and really to
, here , I'm telling you allthis thing and professing what

(45:11):
a Christian I am and so forth.
But, but sobering thought to mejust a couple years ago, or a
few years ago, was it was that, um, in all my , uh, Christian
witnesses, I can think of onlyone person that I had a direct
hand in , in , in leading toChrist. His name was Clayton
Christman. I'd known him foryears. He was retired from
Boeing, and he and his wifehelped , helped my wife,

(45:31):
homeless animals. And so we gotto be great friends for years,
and all of a sudden he was onhis deathbed and to visit him
in a nursing home. And it justoccurred to me, I've known here
Clayton all my life and lookslike you're dying . And
I don't even know whetheryou're a Christian or not, you
know? So I just asked him and , uh, he had cancer
and practically gone. In fact,he died the next day or two
days after that. But, but Iasked him, he says, I says, do

(45:55):
you , do you know you're goingto heaven? Do you , do you, you
comfortable? Do you know? Itsays no. I says , well, would
you like to? And I says , hesays, I sure would. And I said,
well, he just, so I justrepeated after I said , just
repeat after me, John. You know, I mean , uh, Romans 10, nine,
you know, you know , if youbelieve in your heart, Jesus is
Lord and Christ raised him fromthe dead, you will be saved.
And he repeated that rightafter me. And I says , I says,

(46:17):
well, you just think about thatfor a minute. That's your
ticket. So he did that and hethanked me and he died . I , my
recollection, he died the nextday. So , um, but it is kind of
a testimony. I'm happy to saythat story because I think I
had a hand in that. But, butisn't it a sad commentary to
think that, you know , must Iempty handed goal to heaven?
You know, must I empty handedgold ? Is there anybody else?

(46:39):
So it kind of puts a, puts a uh, spark, gives you a spark to
keep your antenna up . Maybe,maybe there's somebody out
there that , uh, that needs tohear what you gotta say and
that you can be you . Andagain, back to John five 13
says that you may know you haveeternal life. There is just
faith tells you that, you know,you have eternal life. And ,

(47:00):
and , uh, again, again , uh,God will take care of you no
matter where you're, whatyou're doing. This is another
famous him . God will take careof me. Well , I look back at my
life and uh , and I try tothink of , uh, times when maybe
God was looking out for me whenI didn't even say I, I
professed to to be a Christianall my life, but certainly from
my conversion at about nineyears old on the fence, potato

(47:23):
patch . That's my memory. But,but you look back and , uh, and
, uh, things happened to yourlife and, and was it, was God
looking at , looking at afteryou at that time was God in
that change? And uh, to me it'seasy to think right now that
say, think it's easy tounderstand and know that he was
there helping you

Speaker 2 (47:47):
When.