January 23, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode of Curious Conversations, we’re joined by someone truly inspiring—Ben Fanelli. You might remember him as the former captain of the Kitchener Rangers or the OHL player who defied the odds, returning to the ice stronger than ever after a traumatic brain injury.
But there’s so much more to Ben than just hockey.
Now a Registered Psychotherapist and the founder of Heroic Minds, Ben is changing the way we think about mental health. His message? Embrace the journey. We’re not just the sum of what happens to us—we’re the heroes of our own stories.
This conversation is packed with wisdom for teenagers wondering what’s next after sports or other big commitments, insights into mental health, and tips for embracing life’s challenges as opportunities to grow.
Oh, and yes, we got his Stanley Cup prediction too.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- 🧠 Overcoming Setbacks: Ben shares his experience with a life-changing brain injury and the lessons it taught him about resilience.
- 🤝 The Power of Community: How the people around us can make all the difference in recovery and growth.
- 🗣️ Talking Mental Health: Why open conversations about mental wellness are a game-changer.
- 🔄 Finding New Purpose: Moving beyond an identity tied to sports and discovering new passions.
- 🚀 Heroic Minds: Ben’s mission to make mental health support more accessible and his vision for a brighter future.
- 🏒 Advice for Athletes: Encouragement for young players facing injuries or big life transitions.
- 🌟 Embracing Change: Why challenges can be the key to unlocking new opportunities.
Why This Episode Matters:
Ben Fanelli’s story isn’t just about hockey—it’s about perseverance, growth, and finding strength in vulnerability. Whether you’re an athlete or just navigating the ups and downs of being a teenager, Ben’s insights will leave you feeling inspired and ready to take on whatever comes next.
Resources:
Heroic Minds Website
Instagram
LinkedIn
What did you think of today's episode? We want to hear from you!
Thanks for tuning in to Curious Conversations! We hope you enjoyed listening as much as we enjoyed creating it for you. Don't forget to stay connected with us on our website and Instagram for more exciting content. Also, make sure to hit that follow/subscribe button and leave us a rating to help us grow and reach more people like you.
Enjoy another curious conversation for teens by teens!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ben (00:00):
I went from 16, 17, 18, thinking that I could not live
without playing the game ofhockey at a competitive level.
And here I am today, nothingbut thankful that I didn't keep
chasing it.
I thought if you would haveasked me this question at 18
(00:20):
years old, 19 years old, thereis not a chance I would ever
believe what I just said.
Yet here I am.
So it's the journey You'regoing to learn, you're going to
evolve, you're going to find newthings that you enjoy.
Don't get attached and tied tothese things, because
everything's going to come andgo and if it doesn't actually
physically leave, your opinionof it might change.
(00:41):
Yeah, I just think we're all ina race to the same place, and
that same place is a new momentwhere we're going to have to
find purpose and meaning.
Emma (00:49):
Yeah, it's really the process of the product.
Ben (00:52):
Nice.
Hit me with some wisdom there.
I like it.
Yes, exactly.
Xavier (00:58):
Hi, welcome to Curious Conversations.
A podcast for kids by kids.
Emma (01:03):
I'm one of your hosts these conversations, a podcast
for kids, by kids.
I'm one of your hosts, xavier,and I'm your other host, emma,
and we're so excited to bringyou another season of
interesting discussions withpeople from all walks of life to
learn about their passions andwhat inspires them.
Xavier (01:15):
We are still as curious as ever and we hope you will
join us on our journey.
Today, we're talking to someonewho is truly inspiring Ben
Finelli.
You might know him as theformer captain of the Kitchener
Rangers or the OHL player whocame back stronger after a
traumatic brain injury, butthere's so much more to Ben than
(01:37):
hockey.
He's now a registeredpsychotherapist and the founder
of Heroic Minds, where he's on amission to change how we think
about mental health.
Basically, he's here to remindus that we are not victims of
what happens to us.
We're the heroes of our ownstories.
In this episode, we're divinginto everything from hockey,
(01:59):
mental health, life in generaland what happens after elite
sports, mental health, life ingeneral and what happens after
elite sports.
As teenagers, we all wonderwhat's next, especially if
sports or other big commitmentshave been such a huge part of
our lives.
Ben's got some major wisdom hewants to share about why your
opportunities don't end.
They actually get bigger.
(02:23):
Oh and, don't worry, we alsogot his take on who's winning
the Stanley Cup this year.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
So grab your snacks and let's get curious.
Hi, ben, welcome to the show.
It's so great to meet you.
Ben (02:36):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm looking forward to this.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
We are as well, so we won't talk a bit about hockey
and, of course, all the greatthings that you're doing today.
We'd like to start off withyour experience recovering from
a traumatic injury for sure.
Ben (02:51):
Oh, where to start?
I think the first thing ishonestly probably what led me to
the work I do today inpsychotherapy not working just
for the athletes, but honestly,just simply being there for
people.
I mean, I'm kind of going to goto the end of the story, a more
backwards stance.
Your question not to minimizeor oversimplify what I do, but I
(03:14):
think, working with peoplenavigating life's challenges, I
think really, at the end of theday, all that I do is create a
space in an environment wherepeople can approach the tensions
in their life, or people canapproach the negative emotions
in their life and as even atyour young age, as you're both
probably aware, it is very easyto avoid that negative emotion
(03:36):
and that tension that we'reliving with.
My role is to just create anenvironment where we can
approach those tensions andnegative emotions, not just to
approach them and overcome them,but to find out what they're
trying to tell us.
Why do I feel this way?
How did I start feeling thisway?
How do I stop feeling this way?
And it's really energy.
(03:57):
Emotion is energy, negativeemotion is energy.
Tension is from somewhere, andI want to create an environment
that's safe and authentic andreal and not very clinical, but
a little more casual, where wecan talk about things, approach
that cave that we want to avoid,because often it is the cave
that hides the treasure that weseek, if I use a little bit of
(04:18):
poetic language.
So now, coming back to answeryour main question what led me
there?
Jeez, I wake up in the hospitalbasically being told I'm lucky
to be alive.
Life is going to be verydifferent.
I'm blessed and lucky to leavethe hospital avoiding brain
surgery, and then I'm back athome and instantly love and
(04:41):
support from I can probably saythis thousands of people.
Most of them have no idea who Iam.
Most of them will get nothingout of choosing to support me,
choosing to push love mydirection and the direction of
my family, and I'm a bigbeliever that that is why I was
able to recover and I'm doingwhat I do today.
(05:05):
So so, yeah, you know you talkabout my recovery and my journey
.
You know, yeah, I could dwellon the tough times.
We've all been through toughtimes.
Yeah, I could dwell on mynegative thoughts.
We've all had negative thoughts.
I would say the one thing thatnow I'm trying to do is return
the favor and push love out intothis world, because that's what
I had from people that did nothave to do it, and I think
(05:27):
that's a reason I kept going anda reason that I am where I am
today.
So it was a big thanks to lotsof selfless, incredible people
okay, that's um.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
It's very cool and that's awesome that those
thousands of people came tosupport you.
So can you talk to us a littlebit more about the recovery that
gave you the strength to tryand come back to the hockey, to
come back from hockey?
Ben (05:50):
yeah for sure.
The recovery side where tobegin?
There too, I would say, youknow, I my approach.
At the time we weren't asadvanced in the research on head
injuries and concussion as weare today, and I think a lot of
people in this space would knowthis.
We still have a lot of work todo.
(06:12):
However, I did what most peoplerecommend not doing when you
have some type of ailment orpain is to go on Dr Google and
see what Dr Google tells you,and so, honestly, what I did was
try and plug in absolutelyeverything that at the time the
internet was saying would leadto healing of brain injuries,
(06:39):
and I plugged it in every day,every single day, and then I
would also sprinkle in some ofthat support that I had from my
teammates, my family, people inthe Kitchener Waterloo community
and collectively, I think thatis what maybe allowed me to
recover.
I would also say I think Iactually did maintain a pretty
positive headspace, given what Iwas going through, because I
(07:02):
was around people that supportedme all the time.
I didn't really get a chance tosit in my room by myself and
feel sorry for myself.
I had my 23 teammates each year, my best friends around me, so
it was tough to hide away andfeel sorry for myself.
Specifics, on the recovery side, i's there's a lot of strong
(07:24):
research coming out now aboutand I don't want to overstep my
boundaries.
I am not a researcher orprofessional in the head injury
space.
I've been lucky to be alignedwith her or have done some work
with some incredible researchersin the space and there's, from
what they have told me, there's,strong evidence to show that
getting to physical exercisesooner than we once thought,
(07:47):
without increasing the intensityof symptoms, can actually be
positive.
And I'll stop there because Idon't want to overspeak my
understanding of things.
And so, knowing that now Ithink that is maybe something
that I did at the time because Iwas so driven.
So did I go run a marathon?
No, but did I go for some walksand some light jogs?
(08:09):
Yes.
Did I load up as much weight onthe bar as I could and rep out
as hard as I could with a bunchof stress on my body?
No, but I picked up a couplelight dumbbells and started
doing some exercises.
So I don't know, maybeaccidentally I was ahead of my
time of where we are with theresearch now.
I could be wrong, but I thinkmaybe that had something to do
(08:32):
with it as well.
I tried to be as physicallyactive as I could within the
doctor's orders.
Emma (08:39):
That's honestly so inspiring your journey of the
recovery and it just proves howquickly life can change.
But it also shows what strengthyou can use and do just to move
forward in life.
Ben (08:50):
I appreciate that.
Yes, I agree yeah.
Emma (08:54):
So can I come back to that .
If you could pinpoint oneturning point in your recovery,
what do you think it was?
Ben (09:01):
Turning point in my recovery was easy answer.
I was watching, as I always didfor those first two years, that
I wasn't playing, sitting inthe press box in the Kitchener
Auditorium.
Now, at this point, I startedto feel sorry for myself.
It didn't last long.
It was a couple of games.
I would be sitting in the pressbox looking at 6,000 people
(09:23):
watching my 23 best friends dosomething I was very unlikely to
ever do again, and I would getstuck in my head and I'd be
thinking what the heck am Idoing?
I'm chasing something no onebelieves I'm ever going to do.
I've left my family and friendsat home.
I haven't played a game in ayear and a half At this point,
actually, maybe not a year and ahalf, but a year and so after
that game I went down into myhead coach's office Steve Spott,
(09:46):
unbelievable man, unbelievablecoach and I said look, spotter,
I'm just going to be honest.
I'm starting to get into not thegreatest headspace.
It's really tough for me towatch these games.
Go on the bus, I enjoyed that,but still then I'm sitting in a
(10:06):
rink at a town watching the team, same cycle and I just said I'm
not in the headspace I want tobe in.
I don't know if I should keepwatching these games.
I'm not sure what to do.
And he looked at me and I'lltell you what he didn't say
first.
He didn't say let's have apizza party, take time off, go
home, take some rest.
Didn't tell me any lies oryou're going to play again, and
(10:30):
I'll promise you that.
He didn't give me any falsehope or false positivity.
He said what are you going todo to get back into the
headspace that you want to be inand how are we going to help
you get there?
That was probably the mostpivotal part of my journey.
The next Friday I didn't go tothe home game.
I borrowed my teammate, benThompson.
(10:50):
I borrowed his car, drove toLyle-Hallman pool and, while the
team was starting the game, Iwas doing the lane swim at
Lyle-Hallman pool at seven oreight o'clock and I would tell
you I was the youngest person inthe pool, by about 60 years.
All right, there's not too many16 year olds that carve out
time on their Friday night to doa late swim, but there I was.
(11:14):
It was the first time in solong that I had felt progress,
growth, competence, confidence,control, agency all these things
we like to feel, as humanbeings, that I hadn't felt so
fast forward to the end of it.
Then I started running, startedriding my bike, started
(11:34):
competing in triathlons andduathlons, raising money for the
Brain Injury Association ofCanada, public speaking, sharing
my story, etc.
And I was buzzing.
When I talk with audiences,especially sport audiences, I
make sure I tell them look, thishad nothing to do with hockey.
Riding my bike, public speaking, raising money,
(11:58):
entrepreneurship, socialentrepreneurship nothing to do
with hockey.
But because of what it did forme as a human being, it allowed
me to continue chasing thisthing in a much healthier way,
and so that's why thatconversation was so pivotal that
one swim started a cascade ofreally awesome outcomes.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
That's amazing.
So, because of what you did torecover through the traumatic
injury that you did, what aresome tips that you could give to
other people who went throughsimilar or completely different
injuries and help them recover?
Ben (12:38):
I would say be open to learning, and I'll niche down a
little further.
When I say open to learning, Imean open to seeing things a
different way and, throughconversation and being open and
being creative and willing topotentially have their
perspective change, it solves alot of problems.
(13:01):
You know, perspective shapesreality and so when life gives
you a certain set of set ofcircumstances, there isn't only
one way to see it all.
Right, it might be hard atfirst to realize there's other
ways to see it, but that firststep of just saying you know
what?
I'm open to seeing this anotherway.
I don't know how I'm going todo it, but I'm open to it.
(13:24):
And then, as you can imagine, ifwe're looking at something
different, we're going tointeract with it differently,
which means now our behaviorschange.
And our behaviors don't changeas a means to an end.
They change because now we'reinteracting with the world
around us differently.
That's probably where I wouldstart is being open to a change
in perspective and findingpeople you love that you can get
(13:46):
all that crap out of your headinto reality, talk about it,
hear yourself say it and then,honestly, all of a sudden, the
exciting adventure begins, and Ithink that's what any given set
of circumstances should be, isthat life should be an adventure
, good, bad or otherwise, andhopefully people can find that
so kind of circling back to theconversation with your coach, so
(14:09):
obviously you were still aroundfor the games very connected
and things and you had.
Emma (14:14):
obviously you said you were very close with your
teammates, right.
So do you think that likehaving that group of support,
even though you weren't part ofthe team, kind of still made you
feel like there was a chance tocome back, and did that help
you in any way?
Ben (14:35):
Oh, 100%, 100% still made you feel like there was a chance
to come back, and did that helpyou in any way?
Oh, 100, 100, like I.
It was actually, believe it ornot, as much as my mom and I'll
use the word aided hockey, herworst nightmare came true and
she saw the, the positivity andvalue in the in the kitchener
waterloo community, theKitchener Rangers organization.
So much so that when I startedto get a little bit of my
sarcasm back and my personalityback, it also rubbed her a
(14:55):
little bit the wrong way.
She said maybe you should moveback with your billet family,
which were also unbelievablepeople.
She said maybe you should be inthat positive environment and
so so, yes, great question.
I think that was instrumentalin in what's you know kind of
brought me here today.
I think being around that thatenvironment was, was super
(15:16):
important kitchener waterloo.
Emma (15:18):
The community here is just so great and like our older
brother he builds too, and justthe billet family should kind of
think is a unique experienceyeah, yeah, it's a special one,
oh yeah um, so you were acaptain in the fifth year.
I think your fifth year yep,you did your research oh yeah,
um, so not like kind of comingback.
(15:40):
You obviously were a leader onthe team, so how did you
approach being a leader and whatdo you think are good ways that
helped you lead as a captain?
Ben (15:48):
Geez, another awesome question.
You guys are on fire, okay.
Well, I learned this from oneof my best buddies, who is an
incredible leader, who was acaptain in Kitchener one day a
few years before me in Kitchener, one day a few years before me,
(16:11):
and he said when you thrustinto positions of leadership, if
you try to be something otherthan who you are, people are
going to sniff it out, they'regoing to realize you're not
being authentic and it maylessen the belief they have in
you as a leader.
So that would be number one isthat they were going to get me
with my good parts, my bad parts, and I knew I wasn't perfect.
And I think the second piecethat helped with decreasing the
(16:33):
pressure of being in aleadership position was I
honestly didn't worry aboutbeing the perfect leader or
saying the perfect thing.
I kind of have this philosophywhether this is right or wrong,
but I have this philosophy thatif, every day, my job as a
leader, in whatever environment,that is my sole job my mission
(16:56):
above anything else is to makesure that any person that I am
supposed to be leading althoughI think everyone can be a leader
in their own situation but ifI'm supposed to be leading them.
If I bring.
The mission of my job is tomake sure that every person, or
as many people as possible thatI'm overseeing feel as competent
(17:20):
and as confident and as full oryou could say loved and as full
, or you could say loved aspossible.
If that is the mission, theanswers become much easier.
What to do becomes much easier,right?
So if you take a situationwhere someone's underperforming
right, my mission is to makesure they're as competent, as
(17:42):
confident and feel as full aspossible.
Now I can see where they needthat.
What are they missing?
Why aren't they performing aswell as they could have?
Are they kind of withdrawn andnot caring?
Okay, so maybe in that placethey need to find that love and
joy and engagement with whatwe're doing here.
Okay, that answers thatquestion.
I don't have to now just jumpand be assertive or plug.
(18:05):
In this leadership tactic I sawon YouTube.
It's like no, the answer's cometo you In a different situation
.
Maybe someone is really stuckin their head.
Everyone else thinks they'relazy, but they're just anxious
and they don't have the energybecause they don't believe in
themselves.
And so, instead of jumping onthem and saying you got to work
harder and you got to blah, blah, blah and get it's like well,
(18:27):
actually wait a second.
Maybe they actually need alittle bit of reminder of how
great they are, maybe they needa little bit of love.
Again, the answer the it.
The answer comes naturallybecause you go back to the
mission of these people need tofeel as full and capable and
confident as possible.
So for me it was never reallymuch overthinking or complexity.
(18:48):
I just brought that missionwith me and, to be honest, I
still do today.
That's it.
And sometimes you speak more,sometimes you listen more.
Depends on you know how you'regoing to fulfill the mission
that day with the people you'retrying to lead.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
That's amazing.
So you were talking about howyou had your philosophy when you
were the captain of theKitchener Rangers.
How did you take thatphilosophy and what you learned
as the captain of the KitchenerRangers and used it as a coach
for the Kitchener of?
Ben (19:19):
Waterloo, I think, keeping one thing in mind you have 23
guys on a roster, we wouldsometimes carry more than that,
I learned, and I think applythis as well.
This has helped me, Even withthe team I'm building now on
(19:40):
Heroic Minds.
We've got developers, we've gotinvestors, we've got other
people.
It's that I don't want anotherBen Finelli on my team.
I don't.
We have one and he's okay, butso I don't need another one.
I want people to see the worldvery different than me, because
they're going to look to solveproblems a different way than me
.
They're going to have adifferent opinion.
(20:00):
I want different opinions.
I don't want people to justtell me what I already think or
believe.
I want them to challenge me.
I want them to see the world ina different way.
I don't know if I actually knewthat consciously when I was in
my fifth year.
I mean I was still.
I mean knowing what I know now.
I think I started to appreciatethat, but didn't realize it at
(20:21):
the time.
We've got 23 different minds inthis room.
Some guys want to be here.
Some guys are already thinkingabout what they're going to do
after hockey.
Some guys are just here becauseit's fun.
Some guys are obsessed withthis game and all they do is eat
, sleep, breathe hockey and thatcan be challenging, right?
That can be challenging forsure, and I think I learned to
(20:41):
respect that in my last yearalso because I had a transition
that year where I went from theobsession hockey is everything
to maybe there's other things Icould do in life and enjoy and
engage with.
So I think, through my ownpersonal journey, that added to
this understanding and I wouldsay that I think that's what
(21:02):
drives me today on a leadershipside, a business side, what
drives me today on a leadershipside, a business side, an
interpersonal side the people inmy life.
I embrace people that see theworld differently than me.
As long as they're notmalevolent or malicious or
anything like that, they stillpush love out into the world.
But if they do it a differentway than me and they see things
differently, I celebrate that,and now I'm in a position where
(21:25):
I just want to learn from them.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
I celebrate that and now I'm in a position where I
just want to learn from them.
So, on the topic of theUniversity of Waterloo, can you
share some of your favoritememories and what you enjoyed
about that job?
Ben (21:35):
Oh, where to start?
First off, I had the mostincredible boss ever, brian Bohr
, who's been the head coachthere for a while now.
He supported me, he believed inme, he gave me opportunity.
He treated me like family stilldoes today, even though I
decided to step away fromcoaching and that's died of
hockey.
He still supports me.
(21:57):
You know I use this ridiculousexample when I describe, uh,
very stealthless, supportivepeople.
I say you know, if I was in, ifwas in the middle of italy
right now and I called someoneand said, hey, can you come pick
me up, can you drive over hereor fly over here and pick me up?
And it's two in the morning.
He's the type of person thatwould do that, no questions
asked.
So, first thing is the coachour assistant coaches same thing
(22:23):
.
Our equipment managers samething.
Our assistant equipment managersame thing.
And now that just takes me intothe players.
We had a lot of great hockeyplayers, don't get me wrong.
But if you look through therosters what their goals are in
life and now what they're doingtoday it's nothing but elite,
(22:44):
elite people that are on thatroster.
And maybe that has something todo with the academics I'm sure
there's a correlation there.
But the people in that lockerroom were just elite people, not
just hockey players.
Elite people, organized, driven, articulate, respectful, which,
to be honest for me, whetherthis is right or wrong to say at
(23:05):
times when maybe we didn'tsucceed as much on the
scoreboard.
Disrespectful, which, to behonest, for me, whether this is
right or wrong to say when we,at times when maybe we didn't
succeed as much on thescoreboard, it was hard to get
upset or frustrated because yougo into the locker room after
the game and you're like there'sa future incredible teacher,
there's a future optometristlawyer, future optometrist
(23:28):
lawyer, doctor, surgeon, listgoes on and you're like, okay,
it's clearly not all about thisgame of hockey and there's more
to life.
And so that was another coolexperience which helped me
transition out of the game andthinking that the game's
everything right.
Emma (23:44):
So throughout your I'd say your uh younger adult life, you
were in multiple places ofleadership right, a coach, a
captain.
You found a four oak mines, sofrom all, like the learning
through sports and transitioningto business.
What would you say is the onepiece of advice like leadership
advice or not that just you'vekind of kept with you and
(24:06):
implemented the whole time?
Ben (24:09):
Though we're all in a race to nothing.
I know that's a little bitexistential and I know it sounds
pessimistic, but we're all in arace.
I say this with my clients Doyou know how many Teslas you
have to own to solve self-doubtand depression?
There is no amount.
(24:32):
Many stories about people thathave gotten to the place they
always wanted to get to and itlasts for a couple of weeks, but
then we're all going to thenext place and you know what
that place is.
It's a time where we have tocontinue to create value and
meaning and find purpose andengagement in life.
You know, I appreciate you bothso much tonight slowing me down
(24:54):
and having a meaningfulconversation, because I'm just
go, go, go, go, go.
And I have a quote on my wallright here that says embrace the
journey, because that's whatit's about.
Right, if, if something's ameans to an end, it's probably
not worth doing because you'vejust sacrificed all that time to
get there, because you weren'tas engaged in the moment long
(25:15):
way to get to where you wantedto be, and so I think that's
probably what I've learned.
I went, I went from 16, 17, 18,thinking that I could not live
without playing the game ofhockey at a competitive level.
And here I am today, nothingbut thankful that I didn't keep
(25:36):
chasing it.
I thought if you would haveasked me this question at 18
years old, 19 years old, thereis not a chance I would ever
believe what I just said.
Yet here I am.
So it's the journey You'regoing to learn, you're going to
evolve, you're going to find newthings that you enjoy.
Don't get attached and tied tothese things, because
everything's going to come andgo that you enjoy.
Don't get attached and tied tothese things because
(25:58):
everything's going to come andgo and if it doesn't actually
physically leave your opinion ofit like change, so it's kind of
left, in a way, from your mindand body.
And yeah, I just think we'reall in a race to the same place
and that same place is a newmoment where we're going to have
to find purpose and meaning.
Emma (26:15):
Yeah, so it's really the process of the product.
Ben (26:19):
Nice.
Hit me with some wisdom there.
I like it.
Yes, exactly.
Emma (26:24):
So we talked about how you were the founder of Paroic
Minds.
So can you tell us why youstarted Paroic Minds and what it
has evolved to today?
Ben (26:33):
Yes, thank you for asking that has evolved to today.
Yes, thank you for asking that.
So I look at the process rightnow of finding engaging,
reliable support for wellbeing.
Let's even focus onpsychotherapy, counseling,
coaching.
It's a clunky process.
You have to sift through thedepths of the internet, then go
(26:56):
to their website, then go toanother platform to engage with
them, and it's clunky.
And we already know 70% ofpeople are probably not reaching
out for help.
Cost stigma, logistics, it'sjust life's busy, I don't want
to talk about it.
So how are we cracking openthat door for more people?
And that's what we're trying todo with Heroic Minds.
We people and that's what we'retrying to do with Heroic Minds
(27:19):
we are blending this mix of kindof pulling together all pieces
where we've got courses, we'vegot professionals from around
the world, we've got a podcasttype social media user interface
where anyone can jump on andthe control is in the hands of
the users.
If you don't want to payanything, you don't have to.
You can learn from people allover the world through the free
content that's available.
't want to pay anything?
You don't have to.
You can learn from people allover the world through the free
content that's available.
You want to take a step further?
(27:40):
You can subscribe to HeroicMinds and have access to even
more content from professionalsaround the world.
If you're enjoying aprofessional, you're listening
to, book a call with themthrough the platform.
And if you want to take anotherstep, professionals can onboard
or upload their own courses,whether that's audio video, text
, and it's in a simple way forthe professional and for the
(28:03):
user.
So really just trying tosimplify and streamline this
entire relationship betweenprofessionals and those that
need support from theprofessionals, and doing it in a
way where even young, spryindividuals like yourselves are
like hey, that's a little easierand a little more enjoyable and
it doesn't cost so much.
Awesome, I'm going to do thatto ingest in myself.
(28:23):
So that's the mission withHeroic Minds trying to reinvent
self-help.
Emma (28:29):
And does Heroic Minds target any age or audience, or
is it really meant for everyone?
Ben (28:35):
It is growing to become meant for everyone because of
the breadth of knowledge fromthe professionals we have on the
platform.
Some stuff is tailored at youth.
A lot of the stuff I do is Somestuff is tailored at young
professionals going forinterviews for jobs.
We have professionals out ofthe US talking about job
(28:55):
leadership and roles in theworkplace.
We have professionals talkingabout head injuries and
concussions, professionalstalking about addiction, so on
and so forth.
So it's a wide breadth.
However, if you're asking mefrom a business perspective and
I have to give my businessanswer, I would say our target
(29:16):
right now is 16 to 20 years old.
Emma (29:19):
And do you think, as someone who went through an
injury we talked about it andthat really benefited from a lot
of self-help do you think thatgave you a different perspective
while founding Shero of Minesand do you think it helped you?
Ben (29:34):
I honestly think somehow you took that question out of my
head so that I could give youan answer that I want to give
you.
I used to joke around and Istarted the call with this
message.
I said there were probablythousands of people I'm not
saying that to pump my tires.
That had nothing to do with me.
That had to do with theincredible Kitchener Rangers
(29:55):
legacy.
That's why that happened.
And I used to joke and say youknow what?
I wish I could package up,bottle up all that support and
love and knowledge and wisdomthat people shared with me.
I wish I could bottle that upand just plug it into people's
lives that are going throughtough times and say you know
what, drink this, drink thisbottle and see you know what
(30:19):
Drink this, drink this bottleand see what you're going to
become through this challenge.
And that's what I'm yes to yourpoint.
That's what I'm trying to dowith Heroic Minds, like I want
other people to have thatEndless resources agency to
approach it how they want, andthat's what we're doing right
now.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
That's the goal.
So you were talking aboutheroic minds as opposed to help
everyone with everything, but isthere um a specific thing that
people come to heroic mindsabout that, like several people
need help with?
Ben (30:52):
for sure, I would say as a lot.
Yes, there's a lot of differentresources.
I would say right now, ourtarget has been the sport
performance space.
We have specialists talkingabout coaching, leadership,
performance, anxiety,relationship with sport,
overthinking all that good stuff.
Right now that target would beathletes and from getting into
(31:20):
first responders, and we've hadsome corporate partnerships as
well.
So it's an interesting journey.
I said my mind's moving amillion miles a second because
it's kind of the you think aboutthe Uber model or the Airbnb
model.
You have to find people thatneed homes and then you need to
find people that are willing toshare their homes and we're
(31:40):
doing a little tug of war withthat.
Right now, we're finding morepeople that need support, and
then we got to find the supportthat they're looking for and
trying to balance that as wegrow.
Emma (31:50):
It sounds like such a great idea.
I mean, it sounds like becauseyou as someone who got through
it, but also with differentperspective experts, and all
this it sounds like because youas someone who got through it,
but also with differentperspective experts, and all
this, it just it sounds like agreat idea and just a new, a new
evolving way for self-help.
It kind of at a time wherepeople are realizing that it's a
good thing to get, so it justit sounds like a great, great
program awesome.
Ben (32:10):
Well, thank you, I will shoot you a link and let you
sign up.
Maybe you can give me somefeedback.
Emma (32:15):
Of course.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Yeah, of course.
So, talking about athletics andpeople, do you still watch
hockey?
Ben (32:26):
I do, In fact, probably this evening I'll have my laptop
out and be watching ourfavorite Toronto Maple Leafs.
Yes, I still watch.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Fantastic, and do you still keep in touch with some
teammates, or then all yourteammates?
Ben (32:42):
you know what it's.
I think a lot of people saythis in in, especially in sports
.
You know, you go through suchemotional experiences together
that the the time it takes tobond with someone shrinks down
because you're going throughsuch emotional difficulty at
(33:04):
times.
Right, we all so many of usbelieved that this game was
going to be everything, and sowe just rode the wave of the ups
and downs of this sport, and sothe bonds with people were so
strong that I don't talk withthem all every day, or even
every month, but as soon as we,you know there's a text or you
see each other out or you makeplans to connect.
(33:25):
I know you probably heard thisbefore.
It's like I've seen them everyday for the last 10 years, but
we haven't.
So, yes, not every day, but Idefinitely keep in touch with a
lot of guys that I was veryblessed and lucky to have spent
time with while playing hockeyso, um, you're talking about
keeping in touch with formerteammates.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
You played when, uh, with gabriel landiskov, the
captain of the avalanche.
Do you still keep in touch withhim?
Ben (33:53):
yes, I'm very lucky to to keep in touch with that guy, and
what an unbelievable person heis better person than he is
hockey player if I could saythat um.
Emma (34:02):
So he recently went through a career threatening
injury, so did you shareanything like obviously support,
but advice about workingthrough injuries, especially
ones that might just delay hisreturn to hockey?
Ben (34:15):
Yeah, we've been chatting briefly Again, honestly, not
professionally, but as a friend,trying to create a space where
you approach that tension andapproach that negative energy
that he might have in him.
And yeah, I try and check inall the time, send positive
(34:36):
thoughts, quotes, messages,videos, right Another place
where heroic minds comes intoplay.
So, yeah, we've been in touchand I've tried to be there as
much as I can.
And looping back to what we'vetalked about many times in this
call so far, he was one of thefirst people to support me when
I stepped onto the ice and pullequipment for the first time,
(35:03):
allowed to engage in some lightcontact.
He was the first person to comeup and hit me into the boards
and he said I know you couldhandle it, I just wanted to be
the first one to do it.
He was at my side.
This is the crazy thing aboutsomeone like him.
Think about the position he wasin he was becoming.
A lot of us knew he was goingto be our first round pick.
We didn't know he was going tobe second overall.
We knew he was going to play inthe NHL.
He's got life in the palm ofhis hand doing amazing things
(35:27):
and there he is still carvingout time to support someone he's
only known for a year and ahalf.
He's just a lights out 10 outof 10 person.
So, yeah, very lucky to be ableto keep in touch with him.
I send positive vibes over toColorado every day that I can.
Whatever happens in his life,he's going to be absolutely fine
.
He's a man of endless skillsand abilities, but I just always
(35:52):
hope he's in the headspace thathe wants to be, whether that's
as a hockey player or not.
Emma (35:56):
Sounds like a great guy.
Ben (35:57):
Amazing.
Emma (35:59):
So we both play hockey and kind of from our perspective as
young players in minor hockey,there's a lot of people who
think like you need to almosttough it out with be with a head
injury or a knee injury or justbeing injured in general.
So how do you think minorhockey should treat injuries or
how they should change how theytreat injuries?
Ben (36:18):
It's a great, great question, you know.
I would say honestly, the headinjuries appear to be a bit
different, right?
Because other injuries, I think, because we can see them and
because we can experience theacute pain and we can talk about
it and point where it is A lotof those injuries I think are,
I'm hoping, well looked after.
(36:40):
I mean, there's always thechance of coming back too early.
But I would say generally Idon't have tons of knowledge or
data in the space, but from whatI see, those physical injuries
that we can feel and see I thinkare dealt with pretty well and
I'm seeing growth in how wetreat and deal with concussions
as well.
I always watch when I talkabout this as if it's a sport
(37:02):
issue, and I don't think it isnecessarily a sport issue.
It's just that a lot ofconcussions that get attention
are in sport, but we never talkabout concussion with car
accidents.
There's tons of concussions andhead injuries and car accidents
, right, but that's not whatgets the cover of the paper,
because it's not as sexy assports, and so, again, this is
(37:26):
my bias.
I do not have data to supportthis, but in the work that I do,
I don't think the care for theconcussion is the problem.
I think there's tons ofunbelievable professionals out
there doing the best they canwith the information we have.
I think it's more of a societalpiece, like we have all these
(37:49):
professionals saying, hey, taketime, hey, take time, wait till
you're fully back to normal andgone through the protocols and
slowly transitioned your wayback in.
We have all these people doingthat.
So where does the problem arise?
Well, if I may, I think theproblem arises from more of the
societal race.
(38:09):
We're all in to get to the nextrung on the ladder and get to
doing what we're doing.
And I got to get back because Igot to play in the NHL and I
got to do this and I can't lookweak and I can't do it.
That's not sport, that's life.
There's a lot of similaritiesbetween navigating a concussion
and navigating certainchallenges with mental health
when it's like don't talk aboutit, no one can see it, I don't
(38:31):
want to be weak, so so I'm notgoing to say anything.
Identity challenges with.
If I'm not playing hockey andI've got this concussion, I just
sit at home all day.
There's nothing else I do withmy life.
That's not a sport issue,that's personal philosophy,
that's a societal kind of ideaor social issue, whatever you
want to label it.
(38:52):
I just don't think it's sportsspecifically.
So again I'll come back to.
I know some unbelievable peoplein the space helping tons and
tons of young athletessuccessfully navigate concussion
in sport, and so there's a lotof good out there and I think
that good is growing.
I think the research is growing.
When it becomes a little hairy,I think, is those the personal
(39:17):
philosophy of the person withthe injury that decides do I,
you know, abide by thedirectives of these
professionals or do I kind ofslide through the back door and
get back a little quicker thanmaybe I should?
And I don't think we cannecessarily blame sport for that
.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Before we end this off, let's end off with a little
bit of a higher note.
Who do you think is going towin the Stanley Cup this year?
Ben (39:45):
This is what I love about hockey is you literally never
know.
St Louis was in last place atChristmas, what four or five
years ago, whatever that is.
And then they win the StanleyCup.
I would like to see Coloradowin it again.
If I'm being honest and I'm notjust uh, jumping on the
bandwagon, I love watching gateplay out there.
(40:06):
I mean, damn, winnipeg looksquite deep and tough and
well-rounded right now.
So I think if if someone'sbetting strictly on how the
hockey is today not in thesummer, but today, yeah I think
people would probably put theirmoney on Winnipeg.
I'd love to see that happen aswell.
Canadian team, local Kitchenerboy helped lead in the charge
(40:29):
there.
So I think that would be coolto see Winnipeg do well,
winnipeg do well.
Would love to see Toronto dosomething for the people out
this way in the southern Ontarioarea that have been hanging on
a cliff waiting for somethingexciting for years.
So I think there's an optionthere.
But at the end, I think that'swhy I had such a love for this
(40:50):
game is that it's it'sincredible that you really never
know who's going to win sospecial.
I'll be sitting on the edge ofmy seat watching, as I'm sure
you probably will as well, as weget into the spring summer
months here.
Emma (41:03):
Yeah, it's definitely one of the hardest trophies to win
in sports.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
Absolutely.
Ben (41:09):
Yeah, what are your picks?
Do you guys have an opinion onthis one?
Speaker 4 (41:12):
Well, obviously I would like the Leafs to win and
we've won the Leafs to win.
But some other Canadian teamshave really surprised me this
year, like Calgary's been doinga lot better than expected, and
Winnipeg.
Even though they are a goodteam, I don't think a lot of
people expected them to go ontheir amazing like.
(41:33):
I think it was 11- 0 at thestart of the year, so, um, I
think I I'd like to, when I seea canadian team win the cup,
finally bring it back.
Emma (41:42):
I like it I'll agree with xavier on that one.
I mean, I'm a habs fan, sowe're going through a rebuild
right now.
But yeah um, I think, I thinkit'll be.
It'll be fun for canadian teamdoing.
I agree with Colorado.
I'd love to see them win thecup again.
It's just great.
They're a fun team to watchwith the McCarr and McKinnon
(42:03):
Just even the whole team, likethere's every player on that
team.
It's just they're all fun towatch.
Ben (42:09):
So I could not agree more.
I love where the game's goingright.
We're seeing so many skilledplayers now in deeper parts of
the lineup that I think we'reseeing a safer, more respectful
game.
But then here's the irony it'sfaster than it's ever been, so
the risk is even higher for theinjury head injury piece, which
(42:33):
which we've spent some timetalking about here tonight, and
so I know it's a little poeticto say, but warms my heart to
see the game going in thedirection it is where, yes, it's
faster, yes it's heavier, yesit's more skilled, but it seems
like there's a decrease in thein the agendas of of simply
going around and banging bodies.
I think there's there's more tothe game now, and it's a
(42:55):
beautiful thing.
Emma (42:56):
It's really exciting to see where the game is going.
Ben (42:59):
I agree.
Emma (43:00):
Thank you so much for your time.
We appreciate it.
You're always go, go, go, butwe really appreciate the time.
I think we're excited to seewhat comes out of heroic minds
as well.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Yes, thank you so much.
Ben (43:14):
I echo that.
I am equally as excited to seewhere this thing goes and, like
I said, it's a it's a journeyand an adventure.
So, wherever it goes, I'mhaving a heck of a good time.
Thank you both for slowing medown here tonight and asking
incredible questions andthinking to me to be on here.
What you, what you both, aredoing, is absolutely outstanding
.
So thank you both.
(43:35):
I appreciate it.
Emma (43:36):
Thank you.
Great conversation.
Thank you for listening and Iknow all the shows you probably
listen to say this, but if youenjoy this episode, please
follow and rate the podcast.
Xavier (43:48):
Also, we would love to connect with you and hear your
thoughts about our episodes.
You can find us on Instagram orvisit our website.
The links are in the show notes.
Thanks for tuning in.
Bye.
I went from 16, 17, 18, thinking that I could not live
without playing the game ofhockey at a competitive level.
And here I am today, nothingbut thankful that I didn't keep
chasing it.
I thought if you would haveasked me this question at 18
(00:20):
years old, 19 years old, thereis not a chance I would ever
believe what I just said.
Yet here I am.
So it's the journey You'regoing to learn, you're going to
evolve, you're going to find newthings that you enjoy.
Don't get attached and tied tothese things, because
everything's going to come andgo and if it doesn't actually
physically leave, your opinionof it might change.
(00:41):
Yeah, I just think we're all ina race to the same place, and
that same place is a new momentwhere we're going to have to
find purpose and meaning.
Emma (00:49):
Yeah, it's really the process of the product.
Ben (00:52):
Nice.
Hit me with some wisdom there.
I like it.
Yes, exactly.
Xavier (00:58):
Hi, welcome to Curious Conversations.
A podcast for kids by kids.
Emma (01:03):
I'm one of your hosts these conversations, a podcast
for kids, by kids.
I'm one of your hosts, xavier,and I'm your other host, emma,
and we're so excited to bringyou another season of
interesting discussions withpeople from all walks of life to
learn about their passions andwhat inspires them.
Xavier (01:15):
We are still as curious as ever and we hope you will
join us on our journey.
Today, we're talking to someonewho is truly inspiring Ben
Finelli.
You might know him as theformer captain of the Kitchener
Rangers or the OHL player whocame back stronger after a
traumatic brain injury, butthere's so much more to Ben than
(01:37):
hockey.
He's now a registeredpsychotherapist and the founder
of Heroic Minds, where he's on amission to change how we think
about mental health.
Basically, he's here to remindus that we are not victims of
what happens to us.
We're the heroes of our ownstories.
In this episode, we're divinginto everything from hockey,
(01:59):
mental health, life in generaland what happens after elite
sports, mental health, life ingeneral and what happens after
elite sports.
As teenagers, we all wonderwhat's next, especially if
sports or other big commitmentshave been such a huge part of
our lives.
Ben's got some major wisdom hewants to share about why your
opportunities don't end.
They actually get bigger.
(02:23):
Oh and, don't worry, we alsogot his take on who's winning
the Stanley Cup this year.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
So grab your snacks and let's get curious.
Hi, ben, welcome to the show.
It's so great to meet you.
Ben (02:36):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm looking forward to this.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
We are as well, so we won't talk a bit about hockey
and, of course, all the greatthings that you're doing today.
We'd like to start off withyour experience recovering from
a traumatic injury for sure.
Ben (02:51):
Oh, where to start?
I think the first thing ishonestly probably what led me to
the work I do today inpsychotherapy not working just
for the athletes, but honestly,just simply being there for
people.
I mean, I'm kind of going to goto the end of the story, a more
backwards stance.
Your question not to minimizeor oversimplify what I do, but I
(03:14):
think, working with peoplenavigating life's challenges, I
think really, at the end of theday, all that I do is create a
space in an environment wherepeople can approach the tensions
in their life, or people canapproach the negative emotions
in their life and as even atyour young age, as you're both
probably aware, it is very easyto avoid that negative emotion
(03:36):
and that tension that we'reliving with.
My role is to just create anenvironment where we can
approach those tensions andnegative emotions, not just to
approach them and overcome them,but to find out what they're
trying to tell us.
Why do I feel this way?
How did I start feeling thisway?
How do I stop feeling this way?
And it's really energy.
(03:57):
Emotion is energy, negativeemotion is energy.
Tension is from somewhere, andI want to create an environment
that's safe and authentic andreal and not very clinical, but
a little more casual, where wecan talk about things, approach
that cave that we want to avoid,because often it is the cave
that hides the treasure that weseek, if I use a little bit of
(04:18):
poetic language.
So now, coming back to answeryour main question what led me
there?
Jeez, I wake up in the hospitalbasically being told I'm lucky
to be alive.
Life is going to be verydifferent.
I'm blessed and lucky to leavethe hospital avoiding brain
surgery, and then I'm back athome and instantly love and
(04:41):
support from I can probably saythis thousands of people.
Most of them have no idea who Iam.
Most of them will get nothingout of choosing to support me,
choosing to push love mydirection and the direction of
my family, and I'm a bigbeliever that that is why I was
able to recover and I'm doingwhat I do today.
(05:05):
So so, yeah, you know you talkabout my recovery and my journey
.
You know, yeah, I could dwellon the tough times.
We've all been through toughtimes.
Yeah, I could dwell on mynegative thoughts.
We've all had negative thoughts.
I would say the one thing thatnow I'm trying to do is return
the favor and push love out intothis world, because that's what
I had from people that did nothave to do it, and I think
(05:27):
that's a reason I kept going anda reason that I am where I am
today.
So it was a big thanks to lotsof selfless, incredible people
okay, that's um.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
It's very cool and that's awesome that those
thousands of people came tosupport you.
So can you talk to us a littlebit more about the recovery that
gave you the strength to tryand come back to the hockey, to
come back from hockey?
Ben (05:50):
yeah for sure.
The recovery side where tobegin?
There too, I would say, youknow, I my approach.
At the time we weren't asadvanced in the research on head
injuries and concussion as weare today, and I think a lot of
people in this space would knowthis.
We still have a lot of work todo.
(06:12):
However, I did what most peoplerecommend not doing when you
have some type of ailment orpain is to go on Dr Google and
see what Dr Google tells you,and so, honestly, what I did was
try and plug in absolutelyeverything that at the time the
internet was saying would leadto healing of brain injuries,
(06:39):
and I plugged it in every day,every single day, and then I
would also sprinkle in some ofthat support that I had from my
teammates, my family, people inthe Kitchener Waterloo community
and collectively, I think thatis what maybe allowed me to
recover.
I would also say I think Iactually did maintain a pretty
positive headspace, given what Iwas going through, because I
(07:02):
was around people that supportedme all the time.
I didn't really get a chance tosit in my room by myself and
feel sorry for myself.
I had my 23 teammates each year, my best friends around me, so
it was tough to hide away andfeel sorry for myself.
Specifics, on the recovery side, i's there's a lot of strong
(07:24):
research coming out now aboutand I don't want to overstep my
boundaries.
I am not a researcher orprofessional in the head injury
space.
I've been lucky to be alignedwith her or have done some work
with some incredible researchersin the space and there's, from
what they have told me, there's,strong evidence to show that
getting to physical exercisesooner than we once thought,
(07:47):
without increasing the intensityof symptoms, can actually be
positive.
And I'll stop there because Idon't want to overspeak my
understanding of things.
And so, knowing that now Ithink that is maybe something
that I did at the time because Iwas so driven.
So did I go run a marathon?
No, but did I go for some walksand some light jogs?
(08:09):
Yes.
Did I load up as much weight onthe bar as I could and rep out
as hard as I could with a bunchof stress on my body?
No, but I picked up a couplelight dumbbells and started
doing some exercises.
So I don't know, maybeaccidentally I was ahead of my
time of where we are with theresearch now.
I could be wrong, but I thinkmaybe that had something to do
(08:32):
with it as well.
I tried to be as physicallyactive as I could within the
doctor's orders.
Emma (08:39):
That's honestly so inspiring your journey of the
recovery and it just proves howquickly life can change.
But it also shows what strengthyou can use and do just to move
forward in life.
Ben (08:50):
I appreciate that.
Yes, I agree yeah.
Emma (08:54):
So can I come back to that .
If you could pinpoint oneturning point in your recovery,
what do you think it was?
Ben (09:01):
Turning point in my recovery was easy answer.
I was watching, as I always didfor those first two years, that
I wasn't playing, sitting inthe press box in the Kitchener
Auditorium.
Now, at this point, I startedto feel sorry for myself.
It didn't last long.
It was a couple of games.
I would be sitting in the pressbox looking at 6,000 people
(09:23):
watching my 23 best friends dosomething I was very unlikely to
ever do again, and I would getstuck in my head and I'd be
thinking what the heck am Idoing?
I'm chasing something no onebelieves I'm ever going to do.
I've left my family and friendsat home.
I haven't played a game in ayear and a half At this point,
actually, maybe not a year and ahalf, but a year and so after
that game I went down into myhead coach's office Steve Spott,
(09:46):
unbelievable man, unbelievablecoach and I said look, spotter,
I'm just going to be honest.
I'm starting to get into not thegreatest headspace.
It's really tough for me towatch these games.
Go on the bus, I enjoyed that,but still then I'm sitting in a
(10:06):
rink at a town watching the team, same cycle and I just said I'm
not in the headspace I want tobe in.
I don't know if I should keepwatching these games.
I'm not sure what to do.
And he looked at me and I'lltell you what he didn't say
first.
He didn't say let's have apizza party, take time off, go
home, take some rest.
Didn't tell me any lies oryou're going to play again, and
(10:30):
I'll promise you that.
He didn't give me any falsehope or false positivity.
He said what are you going todo to get back into the
headspace that you want to be inand how are we going to help
you get there?
That was probably the mostpivotal part of my journey.
The next Friday I didn't go tothe home game.
I borrowed my teammate, benThompson.
(10:50):
I borrowed his car, drove toLyle-Hallman pool and, while the
team was starting the game, Iwas doing the lane swim at
Lyle-Hallman pool at seven oreight o'clock and I would tell
you I was the youngest person inthe pool, by about 60 years.
All right, there's not too many16 year olds that carve out
time on their Friday night to doa late swim, but there I was.
(11:14):
It was the first time in solong that I had felt progress,
growth, competence, confidence,control, agency all these things
we like to feel, as humanbeings, that I hadn't felt so
fast forward to the end of it.
Then I started running, startedriding my bike, started
(11:34):
competing in triathlons andduathlons, raising money for the
Brain Injury Association ofCanada, public speaking, sharing
my story, etc.
And I was buzzing.
When I talk with audiences,especially sport audiences, I
make sure I tell them look, thishad nothing to do with hockey.
Riding my bike, public speaking, raising money,
(11:58):
entrepreneurship, socialentrepreneurship nothing to do
with hockey.
But because of what it did forme as a human being, it allowed
me to continue chasing thisthing in a much healthier way,
and so that's why thatconversation was so pivotal that
one swim started a cascade ofreally awesome outcomes.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
That's amazing.
So, because of what you did torecover through the traumatic
injury that you did, what aresome tips that you could give to
other people who went throughsimilar or completely different
injuries and help them recover?
Ben (12:38):
I would say be open to learning, and I'll niche down a
little further.
When I say open to learning, Imean open to seeing things a
different way and, throughconversation and being open and
being creative and willing topotentially have their
perspective change, it solves alot of problems.
(13:01):
You know, perspective shapesreality and so when life gives
you a certain set of set ofcircumstances, there isn't only
one way to see it all.
Right, it might be hard atfirst to realize there's other
ways to see it, but that firststep of just saying you know
what?
I'm open to seeing this anotherway.
I don't know how I'm going todo it, but I'm open to it.
(13:24):
And then, as you can imagine, ifwe're looking at something
different, we're going tointeract with it differently,
which means now our behaviorschange.
And our behaviors don't changeas a means to an end.
They change because now we'reinteracting with the world
around us differently.
That's probably where I wouldstart is being open to a change
in perspective and findingpeople you love that you can get
(13:46):
all that crap out of your headinto reality, talk about it,
hear yourself say it and then,honestly, all of a sudden, the
exciting adventure begins, and Ithink that's what any given set
of circumstances should be, isthat life should be an adventure
, good, bad or otherwise, andhopefully people can find that
so kind of circling back to theconversation with your coach, so
(14:09):
obviously you were still aroundfor the games very connected
and things and you had.
Emma (14:14):
obviously you said you were very close with your
teammates, right.
So do you think that likehaving that group of support,
even though you weren't part ofthe team, kind of still made you
feel like there was a chance tocome back, and did that help
you in any way?
Ben (14:35):
Oh, 100%, 100% still made you feel like there was a chance
to come back, and did that helpyou in any way?
Oh, 100, 100, like I.
It was actually, believe it ornot, as much as my mom and I'll
use the word aided hockey, herworst nightmare came true and
she saw the, the positivity andvalue in the in the kitchener
waterloo community, theKitchener Rangers organization.
So much so that when I startedto get a little bit of my
sarcasm back and my personalityback, it also rubbed her a
(14:55):
little bit the wrong way.
She said maybe you should moveback with your billet family,
which were also unbelievablepeople.
She said maybe you should be inthat positive environment and
so so, yes, great question.
I think that was instrumentalin in what's you know kind of
brought me here today.
I think being around that thatenvironment was, was super
(15:16):
important kitchener waterloo.
Emma (15:18):
The community here is just so great and like our older
brother he builds too, and justthe billet family should kind of
think is a unique experienceyeah, yeah, it's a special one,
oh yeah um, so you were acaptain in the fifth year.
I think your fifth year yep,you did your research oh yeah,
um, so not like kind of comingback.
(15:40):
You obviously were a leader onthe team, so how did you
approach being a leader and whatdo you think are good ways that
helped you lead as a captain?
Ben (15:48):
Geez, another awesome question.
You guys are on fire, okay.
Well, I learned this from oneof my best buddies, who is an
incredible leader, who was acaptain in Kitchener one day a
few years before me in Kitchener, one day a few years before me,
(16:11):
and he said when you thrustinto positions of leadership, if
you try to be something otherthan who you are, people are
going to sniff it out, they'regoing to realize you're not
being authentic and it maylessen the belief they have in
you as a leader.
So that would be number one isthat they were going to get me
with my good parts, my bad parts, and I knew I wasn't perfect.
And I think the second piecethat helped with decreasing the
(16:33):
pressure of being in aleadership position was I
honestly didn't worry aboutbeing the perfect leader or
saying the perfect thing.
I kind of have this philosophywhether this is right or wrong,
but I have this philosophy thatif, every day, my job as a
leader, in whatever environment,that is my sole job my mission
(16:56):
above anything else is to makesure that any person that I am
supposed to be leading althoughI think everyone can be a leader
in their own situation but ifI'm supposed to be leading them.
If I bring.
The mission of my job is tomake sure that every person, or
as many people as possible thatI'm overseeing feel as competent
(17:20):
and as confident and as full oryou could say loved and as full
, or you could say loved aspossible.
If that is the mission, theanswers become much easier.
What to do becomes much easier,right?
So if you take a situationwhere someone's underperforming
right, my mission is to makesure they're as competent, as
(17:42):
confident and feel as full aspossible.
Now I can see where they needthat.
What are they missing?
Why aren't they performing aswell as they could have?
Are they kind of withdrawn andnot caring?
Okay, so maybe in that placethey need to find that love and
joy and engagement with whatwe're doing here.
Okay, that answers thatquestion.
I don't have to now just jumpand be assertive or plug.
(18:05):
In this leadership tactic I sawon YouTube.
It's like no, the answer's cometo you In a different situation
.
Maybe someone is really stuckin their head.
Everyone else thinks they'relazy, but they're just anxious
and they don't have the energybecause they don't believe in
themselves.
And so, instead of jumping onthem and saying you got to work
harder and you got to blah, blah, blah and get it's like well,
(18:27):
actually wait a second.
Maybe they actually need alittle bit of reminder of how
great they are, maybe they needa little bit of love.
Again, the answer the it.
The answer comes naturallybecause you go back to the
mission of these people need tofeel as full and capable and
confident as possible.
So for me it was never reallymuch overthinking or complexity.
(18:48):
I just brought that missionwith me and, to be honest, I
still do today.
That's it.
And sometimes you speak more,sometimes you listen more.
Depends on you know how you'regoing to fulfill the mission
that day with the people you'retrying to lead.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
That's amazing.
So you were talking about howyou had your philosophy when you
were the captain of theKitchener Rangers.
How did you take thatphilosophy and what you learned
as the captain of the KitchenerRangers and used it as a coach
for the Kitchener of?
Ben (19:19):
Waterloo, I think, keeping one thing in mind you have 23
guys on a roster, we wouldsometimes carry more than that,
I learned, and I think applythis as well.
This has helped me, Even withthe team I'm building now on
(19:40):
Heroic Minds.
We've got developers, we've gotinvestors, we've got other
people.
It's that I don't want anotherBen Finelli on my team.
I don't.
We have one and he's okay, butso I don't need another one.
I want people to see the worldvery different than me, because
they're going to look to solveproblems a different way than me
.
They're going to have adifferent opinion.
(20:00):
I want different opinions.
I don't want people to justtell me what I already think or
believe.
I want them to challenge me.
I want them to see the world ina different way.
I don't know if I actually knewthat consciously when I was in
my fifth year.
I mean I was still.
I mean knowing what I know now.
I think I started to appreciatethat, but didn't realize it at
(20:21):
the time.
We've got 23 different minds inthis room.
Some guys want to be here.
Some guys are already thinkingabout what they're going to do
after hockey.
Some guys are just here becauseit's fun.
Some guys are obsessed withthis game and all they do is eat
, sleep, breathe hockey and thatcan be challenging, right?
That can be challenging forsure, and I think I learned to
(20:41):
respect that in my last yearalso because I had a transition
that year where I went from theobsession hockey is everything
to maybe there's other things Icould do in life and enjoy and
engage with.
So I think, through my ownpersonal journey, that added to
this understanding and I wouldsay that I think that's what
(21:02):
drives me today on a leadershipside, a business side, what
drives me today on a leadershipside, a business side, an
interpersonal side the people inmy life.
I embrace people that see theworld differently than me.
As long as they're notmalevolent or malicious or
anything like that, they stillpush love out into the world.
But if they do it a differentway than me and they see things
differently, I celebrate that,and now I'm in a position where
(21:25):
I just want to learn from them.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
I celebrate that and now I'm in a position where I
just want to learn from them.
So, on the topic of theUniversity of Waterloo, can you
share some of your favoritememories and what you enjoyed
about that job?
Ben (21:35):
Oh, where to start?
First off, I had the mostincredible boss ever, brian Bohr
, who's been the head coachthere for a while now.
He supported me, he believed inme, he gave me opportunity.
He treated me like family stilldoes today, even though I
decided to step away fromcoaching and that's died of
hockey.
He still supports me.
(21:57):
You know I use this ridiculousexample when I describe, uh,
very stealthless, supportivepeople.
I say you know, if I was in, ifwas in the middle of italy
right now and I called someoneand said, hey, can you come pick
me up, can you drive over hereor fly over here and pick me up?
And it's two in the morning.
He's the type of person thatwould do that, no questions
asked.
So, first thing is the coachour assistant coaches same thing
(22:23):
.
Our equipment managers samething.
Our assistant equipment managersame thing.
And now that just takes me intothe players.
We had a lot of great hockeyplayers, don't get me wrong.
But if you look through therosters what their goals are in
life and now what they're doingtoday it's nothing but elite,
(22:44):
elite people that are on thatroster.
And maybe that has something todo with the academics I'm sure
there's a correlation there.
But the people in that lockerroom were just elite people, not
just hockey players.
Elite people, organized, driven, articulate, respectful, which,
to be honest for me, whetherthis is right or wrong to say at
(23:05):
times when maybe we didn'tsucceed as much on the
scoreboard.
Disrespectful, which, to behonest, for me, whether this is
right or wrong to say when we,at times when maybe we didn't
succeed as much on thescoreboard, it was hard to get
upset or frustrated because yougo into the locker room after
the game and you're like there'sa future incredible teacher,
there's a future optometristlawyer, future optometrist
(23:28):
lawyer, doctor, surgeon, listgoes on and you're like, okay,
it's clearly not all about thisgame of hockey and there's more
to life.
And so that was another coolexperience which helped me
transition out of the game andthinking that the game's
everything right.
Emma (23:44):
So throughout your I'd say your uh younger adult life, you
were in multiple places ofleadership right, a coach, a
captain.
You found a four oak mines, sofrom all, like the learning
through sports and transitioningto business.
What would you say is the onepiece of advice like leadership
advice or not that just you'vekind of kept with you and
(24:06):
implemented the whole time?
Ben (24:09):
Though we're all in a race to nothing.
I know that's a little bitexistential and I know it sounds
pessimistic, but we're all in arace.
I say this with my clients Doyou know how many Teslas you
have to own to solve self-doubtand depression?
There is no amount.
(24:32):
Many stories about people thathave gotten to the place they
always wanted to get to and itlasts for a couple of weeks, but
then we're all going to thenext place and you know what
that place is.
It's a time where we have tocontinue to create value and
meaning and find purpose andengagement in life.
You know, I appreciate you bothso much tonight slowing me down
(24:54):
and having a meaningfulconversation, because I'm just
go, go, go, go, go.
And I have a quote on my wallright here that says embrace the
journey, because that's whatit's about.
Right, if, if something's ameans to an end, it's probably
not worth doing because you'vejust sacrificed all that time to
get there, because you weren'tas engaged in the moment long
(25:15):
way to get to where you wantedto be, and so I think that's
probably what I've learned.
I went, I went from 16, 17, 18,thinking that I could not live
without playing the game ofhockey at a competitive level.
And here I am today, nothingbut thankful that I didn't keep
(25:36):
chasing it.
I thought if you would haveasked me this question at 18
years old, 19 years old, thereis not a chance I would ever
believe what I just said.
Yet here I am.
So it's the journey You'regoing to learn, you're going to
evolve, you're going to find newthings that you enjoy.
Don't get attached and tied tothese things, because
everything's going to come andgo that you enjoy.
Don't get attached and tied tothese things because
(25:58):
everything's going to come andgo and if it doesn't actually
physically leave your opinion ofit like change, so it's kind of
left, in a way, from your mindand body.
And yeah, I just think we'reall in a race to the same place
and that same place is a newmoment where we're going to have
to find purpose and meaning.
Emma (26:15):
Yeah, so it's really the process of the product.
Ben (26:19):
Nice.
Hit me with some wisdom there.
I like it.
Yes, exactly.
Emma (26:24):
So we talked about how you were the founder of Paroic
Minds.
So can you tell us why youstarted Paroic Minds and what it
has evolved to today?
Ben (26:33):
Yes, thank you for asking that has evolved to today.
Yes, thank you for asking that.
So I look at the process rightnow of finding engaging,
reliable support for wellbeing.
Let's even focus onpsychotherapy, counseling,
coaching.
It's a clunky process.
You have to sift through thedepths of the internet, then go
(26:56):
to their website, then go toanother platform to engage with
them, and it's clunky.
And we already know 70% ofpeople are probably not reaching
out for help.
Cost stigma, logistics, it'sjust life's busy, I don't want
to talk about it.
So how are we cracking openthat door for more people?
And that's what we're trying todo with Heroic Minds.
We people and that's what we'retrying to do with Heroic Minds
(27:19):
we are blending this mix of kindof pulling together all pieces
where we've got courses, we'vegot professionals from around
the world, we've got a podcasttype social media user interface
where anyone can jump on andthe control is in the hands of
the users.
If you don't want to payanything, you don't have to.
You can learn from people allover the world through the free
content that's available.
't want to pay anything?
You don't have to.
You can learn from people allover the world through the free
content that's available.
You want to take a step further?
(27:40):
You can subscribe to HeroicMinds and have access to even
more content from professionalsaround the world.
If you're enjoying aprofessional, you're listening
to, book a call with themthrough the platform.
And if you want to take anotherstep, professionals can onboard
or upload their own courses,whether that's audio video, text
, and it's in a simple way forthe professional and for the
(28:03):
user.
So really just trying tosimplify and streamline this
entire relationship betweenprofessionals and those that
need support from theprofessionals, and doing it in a
way where even young, spryindividuals like yourselves are
like hey, that's a little easierand a little more enjoyable and
it doesn't cost so much.
Awesome, I'm going to do thatto ingest in myself.
(28:23):
So that's the mission withHeroic Minds trying to reinvent
self-help.
Emma (28:29):
And does Heroic Minds target any age or audience, or
is it really meant for everyone?
Ben (28:35):
It is growing to become meant for everyone because of
the breadth of knowledge fromthe professionals we have on the
platform.
Some stuff is tailored at youth.
A lot of the stuff I do is Somestuff is tailored at young
professionals going forinterviews for jobs.
We have professionals out ofthe US talking about job
(28:55):
leadership and roles in theworkplace.
We have professionals talkingabout head injuries and
concussions, professionalstalking about addiction, so on
and so forth.
So it's a wide breadth.
However, if you're asking mefrom a business perspective and
I have to give my businessanswer, I would say our target
(29:16):
right now is 16 to 20 years old.
Emma (29:19):
And do you think, as someone who went through an
injury we talked about it andthat really benefited from a lot
of self-help do you think thatgave you a different perspective
while founding Shero of Minesand do you think it helped you?
Ben (29:34):
I honestly think somehow you took that question out of my
head so that I could give youan answer that I want to give
you.
I used to joke around and Istarted the call with this
message.
I said there were probablythousands of people I'm not
saying that to pump my tires.
That had nothing to do with me.
That had to do with theincredible Kitchener Rangers
(29:55):
legacy.
That's why that happened.
And I used to joke and say youknow what?
I wish I could package up,bottle up all that support and
love and knowledge and wisdomthat people shared with me.
I wish I could bottle that upand just plug it into people's
lives that are going throughtough times and say you know
what, drink this, drink thisbottle and see you know what
(30:19):
Drink this, drink this bottleand see what you're going to
become through this challenge.
And that's what I'm yes to yourpoint.
That's what I'm trying to dowith Heroic Minds, like I want
other people to have thatEndless resources agency to
approach it how they want, andthat's what we're doing right
now.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
That's the goal.
So you were talking aboutheroic minds as opposed to help
everyone with everything, but isthere um a specific thing that
people come to heroic mindsabout that, like several people
need help with?
Ben (30:52):
for sure, I would say as a lot.
Yes, there's a lot of differentresources.
I would say right now, ourtarget has been the sport
performance space.
We have specialists talkingabout coaching, leadership,
performance, anxiety,relationship with sport,
overthinking all that good stuff.
Right now that target would beathletes and from getting into
(31:20):
first responders, and we've hadsome corporate partnerships as
well.
So it's an interesting journey.
I said my mind's moving amillion miles a second because
it's kind of the you think aboutthe Uber model or the Airbnb
model.
You have to find people thatneed homes and then you need to
find people that are willing toshare their homes and we're
(31:40):
doing a little tug of war withthat.
Right now, we're finding morepeople that need support, and
then we got to find the supportthat they're looking for and
trying to balance that as wegrow.
Emma (31:50):
It sounds like such a great idea.
I mean, it sounds like becauseyou as someone who got through
it, but also with differentperspective experts, and all
this it sounds like because youas someone who got through it,
but also with differentperspective experts, and all
this, it just it sounds like agreat idea and just a new, a new
evolving way for self-help.
It kind of at a time wherepeople are realizing that it's a
good thing to get, so it justit sounds like a great, great
program awesome.
Ben (32:10):
Well, thank you, I will shoot you a link and let you
sign up.
Maybe you can give me somefeedback.
Emma (32:15):
Of course.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Yeah, of course.
So, talking about athletics andpeople, do you still watch
hockey?
Ben (32:26):
I do, In fact, probably this evening I'll have my laptop
out and be watching ourfavorite Toronto Maple Leafs.
Yes, I still watch.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Fantastic, and do you still keep in touch with some
teammates, or then all yourteammates?
Ben (32:42):
you know what it's.
I think a lot of people saythis in in, especially in sports
.
You know, you go through suchemotional experiences together
that the the time it takes tobond with someone shrinks down
because you're going throughsuch emotional difficulty at
(33:04):
times.
Right, we all so many of usbelieved that this game was
going to be everything, and sowe just rode the wave of the ups
and downs of this sport, and sothe bonds with people were so
strong that I don't talk withthem all every day, or even
every month, but as soon as we,you know there's a text or you
see each other out or you makeplans to connect.
(33:25):
I know you probably heard thisbefore.
It's like I've seen them everyday for the last 10 years, but
we haven't.
So, yes, not every day, but Idefinitely keep in touch with a
lot of guys that I was veryblessed and lucky to have spent
time with while playing hockeyso, um, you're talking about
keeping in touch with formerteammates.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
You played when, uh, with gabriel landiskov, the
captain of the avalanche.
Do you still keep in touch withhim?
Ben (33:53):
yes, I'm very lucky to to keep in touch with that guy, and
what an unbelievable person heis better person than he is
hockey player if I could saythat um.
Emma (34:02):
So he recently went through a career threatening
injury, so did you shareanything like obviously support,
but advice about workingthrough injuries, especially
ones that might just delay hisreturn to hockey?
Ben (34:15):
Yeah, we've been chatting briefly Again, honestly, not
professionally, but as a friend,trying to create a space where
you approach that tension andapproach that negative energy
that he might have in him.
And yeah, I try and check inall the time, send positive
(34:36):
thoughts, quotes, messages,videos, right Another place
where heroic minds comes intoplay.
So, yeah, we've been in touchand I've tried to be there as
much as I can.
And looping back to what we'vetalked about many times in this
call so far, he was one of thefirst people to support me when
I stepped onto the ice and pullequipment for the first time,
(35:03):
allowed to engage in some lightcontact.
He was the first person to comeup and hit me into the boards
and he said I know you couldhandle it, I just wanted to be
the first one to do it.
He was at my side.
This is the crazy thing aboutsomeone like him.
Think about the position he wasin he was becoming.
A lot of us knew he was goingto be our first round pick.
We didn't know he was going tobe second overall.
We knew he was going to play inthe NHL.
He's got life in the palm ofhis hand doing amazing things
(35:27):
and there he is still carvingout time to support someone he's
only known for a year and ahalf.
He's just a lights out 10 outof 10 person.
So, yeah, very lucky to be ableto keep in touch with him.
I send positive vibes over toColorado every day that I can.
Whatever happens in his life,he's going to be absolutely fine
.
He's a man of endless skillsand abilities, but I just always
(35:52):
hope he's in the headspace thathe wants to be, whether that's
as a hockey player or not.
Emma (35:56):
Sounds like a great guy.
Ben (35:57):
Amazing.
Emma (35:59):
So we both play hockey and kind of from our perspective as
young players in minor hockey,there's a lot of people who
think like you need to almosttough it out with be with a head
injury or a knee injury or justbeing injured in general.
So how do you think minorhockey should treat injuries or
how they should change how theytreat injuries?
Ben (36:18):
It's a great, great question, you know.
I would say honestly, the headinjuries appear to be a bit
different, right?
Because other injuries, I think, because we can see them and
because we can experience theacute pain and we can talk about
it and point where it is A lotof those injuries I think are,
I'm hoping, well looked after.
(36:40):
I mean, there's always thechance of coming back too early.
But I would say generally Idon't have tons of knowledge or
data in the space, but from whatI see, those physical injuries
that we can feel and see I thinkare dealt with pretty well and
I'm seeing growth in how wetreat and deal with concussions
as well.
I always watch when I talkabout this as if it's a sport
(37:02):
issue, and I don't think it isnecessarily a sport issue.
It's just that a lot ofconcussions that get attention
are in sport, but we never talkabout concussion with car
accidents.
There's tons of concussions andhead injuries and car accidents
, right, but that's not whatgets the cover of the paper,
because it's not as sexy assports, and so, again, this is
(37:26):
my bias.
I do not have data to supportthis, but in the work that I do,
I don't think the care for theconcussion is the problem.
I think there's tons ofunbelievable professionals out
there doing the best they canwith the information we have.
I think it's more of a societalpiece, like we have all these
(37:49):
professionals saying, hey, taketime, hey, take time, wait till
you're fully back to normal andgone through the protocols and
slowly transitioned your wayback in.
We have all these people doingthat.
So where does the problem arise?
Well, if I may, I think theproblem arises from more of the
societal race.
(38:09):
We're all in to get to the nextrung on the ladder and get to
doing what we're doing.
And I got to get back because Igot to play in the NHL and I
got to do this and I can't lookweak and I can't do it.
That's not sport, that's life.
There's a lot of similaritiesbetween navigating a concussion
and navigating certainchallenges with mental health
when it's like don't talk aboutit, no one can see it, I don't
(38:31):
want to be weak, so so I'm notgoing to say anything.
Identity challenges with.
If I'm not playing hockey andI've got this concussion, I just
sit at home all day.
There's nothing else I do withmy life.
That's not a sport issue,that's personal philosophy,
that's a societal kind of ideaor social issue, whatever you
want to label it.
(38:52):
I just don't think it's sportsspecifically.
So again I'll come back to.
I know some unbelievable peoplein the space helping tons and
tons of young athletessuccessfully navigate concussion
in sport, and so there's a lotof good out there and I think
that good is growing.
I think the research is growing.
When it becomes a little hairy,I think, is those the personal
(39:17):
philosophy of the person withthe injury that decides do I,
you know, abide by thedirectives of these
professionals or do I kind ofslide through the back door and
get back a little quicker thanmaybe I should?
And I don't think we cannecessarily blame sport for that
.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Before we end this off, let's end off with a little
bit of a higher note.
Who do you think is going towin the Stanley Cup this year?
Ben (39:45):
This is what I love about hockey is you literally never
know.
St Louis was in last place atChristmas, what four or five
years ago, whatever that is.
And then they win the StanleyCup.
I would like to see Coloradowin it again.
If I'm being honest and I'm notjust uh, jumping on the
bandwagon, I love watching gateplay out there.
(40:06):
I mean, damn, winnipeg looksquite deep and tough and
well-rounded right now.
So I think if if someone'sbetting strictly on how the
hockey is today not in thesummer, but today, yeah I think
people would probably put theirmoney on Winnipeg.
I'd love to see that happen aswell.
Canadian team, local Kitchenerboy helped lead in the charge
(40:29):
there.
So I think that would be coolto see Winnipeg do well,
winnipeg do well.
Would love to see Toronto dosomething for the people out
this way in the southern Ontarioarea that have been hanging on
a cliff waiting for somethingexciting for years.
So I think there's an optionthere.
But at the end, I think that'swhy I had such a love for this
(40:50):
game is that it's it'sincredible that you really never
know who's going to win sospecial.
I'll be sitting on the edge ofmy seat watching, as I'm sure
you probably will as well, as weget into the spring summer
months here.
Emma (41:03):
Yeah, it's definitely one of the hardest trophies to win
in sports.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
Absolutely.
Ben (41:09):
Yeah, what are your picks?
Do you guys have an opinion onthis one?
Speaker 4 (41:12):
Well, obviously I would like the Leafs to win and
we've won the Leafs to win.
But some other Canadian teamshave really surprised me this
year, like Calgary's been doinga lot better than expected, and
Winnipeg.
Even though they are a goodteam, I don't think a lot of
people expected them to go ontheir amazing like.
(41:33):
I think it was 11- 0 at thestart of the year, so, um, I
think I I'd like to, when I seea canadian team win the cup,
finally bring it back.
Emma (41:42):
I like it I'll agree with xavier on that one.
I mean, I'm a habs fan, sowe're going through a rebuild
right now.
But yeah um, I think, I thinkit'll be.
It'll be fun for canadian teamdoing.
I agree with Colorado.
I'd love to see them win thecup again.
It's just great.
They're a fun team to watchwith the McCarr and McKinnon
(42:03):
Just even the whole team, likethere's every player on that
team.
It's just they're all fun towatch.
Ben (42:09):
So I could not agree more.
I love where the game's goingright.
We're seeing so many skilledplayers now in deeper parts of
the lineup that I think we'reseeing a safer, more respectful
game.
But then here's the irony it'sfaster than it's ever been, so
the risk is even higher for theinjury head injury piece, which
(42:33):
which we've spent some timetalking about here tonight, and
so I know it's a little poeticto say, but warms my heart to
see the game going in thedirection it is where, yes, it's
faster, yes it's heavier, yesit's more skilled, but it seems
like there's a decrease in thein the agendas of of simply
going around and banging bodies.
I think there's there's more tothe game now, and it's a
(42:55):
beautiful thing.
Emma (42:56):
It's really exciting to see where the game is going.
Ben (42:59):
I agree.
Emma (43:00):
Thank you so much for your time.
We appreciate it.
You're always go, go, go, butwe really appreciate the time.
I think we're excited to seewhat comes out of heroic minds
as well.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Yes, thank you so much.
Ben (43:14):
I echo that.
I am equally as excited to seewhere this thing goes and, like
I said, it's a it's a journeyand an adventure.
So, wherever it goes, I'mhaving a heck of a good time.
Thank you both for slowing medown here tonight and asking
incredible questions andthinking to me to be on here.
What you, what you both, aredoing, is absolutely outstanding
.
So thank you both.
(43:35):
I appreciate it.
Emma (43:36):
Thank you.
Great conversation.
Thank you for listening and Iknow all the shows you probably
listen to say this, but if youenjoy this episode, please
follow and rate the podcast.
Xavier (43:48):
Also, we would love to connect with you and hear your
thoughts about our episodes.
You can find us on Instagram orvisit our website.
The links are in the show notes.
Thanks for tuning in.
Bye.
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