September 10, 2024 • 39 mins
In this episode, we delve into the nature of God's wisdom and how it contrasts with human debating. We explore how God responds to human debates on suffering and questioning Him, using key scriptures including 1 Corinthians 1:18-20. We also discuss the significance of debates, their historical context, and how to frame them from a Christian perspective.
Join us as we examine debates involving Job, Abraham, Moses, David, and Jesus, and the lessons we can learn from them. Discover how to engage in meaningful debates, discern when to avoid unworthy arguments, and the importance of examining ourselves to align with God's truth.
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Episode Transcript
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Music.
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Good day to you, brothers, sisters, friends, and new faces, and welcome to Current
Events and Christian Expectations.
And today in this podcast, we're going to be talking about the debates of this
age and the debater of the ages.
We will answer such questions as what is the nature of God's wisdom and how
does it contrast with human debating?
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And how does God respond to the human debates of suffering and questioning Him?
We'll lead off with 1 Corinthians 1, verses 8 through 20, and we'll have many
other scriptures that we reference and read today, and we'll put those in the overview.
But with the debate of debates upon us, let's just dig right in.
Yes, it's all about debates ever since ex-President Trump, former President
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Trump, and President Biden had that debate a couple months or so ago.
And tomorrow, as we do this podcast, tomorrow is when President Trump and Vice
President and Harris will have a debate.
How important are debates? How should we understand debates?
How should we frame them from the Christian perspective?
Listen carefully as Randy reads 1 Corinthians 1 verses 18 through 20.
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For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment
of the discerning, I will thwart.
Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age?
Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
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That is a tremendous statement in view of debates. The world's been debating,
you name it, and it's been debated for thousands of years. There's no debate.
Debates should be debunked. Yes, debunking the debate.
And that's basically what Paul does here. Where is the debater of this age?
He precedes that with who is wise, who is ascribed, meaning these people are
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normally considered to be wise in their ways.
But he says, in view of what God has done with the cross, there's no debate
about that. That's the truth.
And it shows up the lack of wisdom in the world.
If you listen to the news, the world hangs on the Harris-Trump debate tomorrow.
As the U.S. goes, so goes the rest of the world. So many people think.
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So many people think. So many people think, yes. You get on the BBC news broadcast
and there are other countries in the world besides our own. That's true. Things happen. Yes.
Where is the debater of this age?
Christian Standard Bible calls it debater. Amplified Bible says debater.
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The NLT, excellent translation, says debater. The NLT has brilliant debater.
Sort of reading in a little bit to what they think Paul was getting at there,
that Paul was familiar with all kinds of debaters, and they were considered
brilliant by the people of his day.
But Paul says the cross has made all those debates unwise and has put them in their place.
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Because the cross has destroyed that once for all.
And it's important in one of our missions here at Christian Expectations is
to show how Scripture takes things of the world that are current events that
everybody thinks are so important and puts them in the Christian context so
you can understand them.
They're not that important. They do things, and there's something to be said
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for them, but they're not that important.
Now, in our U.S. history, debates were, back in the 19th century,
are far more plentiful, and they were seen to be very important,
especially if the subject was a worthy one, and quite often it would be something
about Christian doctrine. Yeah. Yes.
I went to a few church debates where a Baptist church would debate an amillennialist
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church or something like that,
and it was in the 1990s, and they seemed to even then be just going out of style.
They don't, they don't, they're not, they're not in style. Yes.
There's a time for everything. And in course of God's providence in the church of Christ tradition,
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there's a fellow named Alexander Campbell, uh, well-known to those of us in
that tradition, but keep in mind, you may never have heard of him,
but historians will tell you he was as famous as Billy Graham was in our day.
He was really well-known and he engaged in many public debates and public debates
were were a big thing in the 19th century.
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Between 1820s and 1940s, he was involved in many debates. Here's something from Wikipedia.
For a while, he was wary of getting involved in public debates,
and in June of 1820, he nevertheless debated Reverend John Walker,
a Baptist preacher at Mount Pleasant, Ohio, on baptism, and since then regularly took part in debates.
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Some of them gained national and international attention after their transcripts
were published. In 1823, he debated with Reverend William L.
McCullough, a Presbyterian minister on infant baptism.
In April of 1829, with Robert Owen on socialism, and of course,
what it means from the Christian perspective.
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And in January of 1837, with Archbishop of Cincinnati.
John Baptist Purcell on Protestantism and Roman Catholicism.
Then in September of 1843, he defended the Restoration Movement,
a movement to get everybody back to the Bible, and a debate with Reverend Nathan L.
Rice, who represented traditional Presbyterianism. Let's stop there.
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He debated everybody. He debated everybody. Now, this debate with Rice goes
on for, it's published, you can get it, 912 pages.
And it took place from November the 15th, 1843, to December the 2nd, 1843.
Yes, they took bathroom breaks and went to sleep and ate food.
But I'm only mentioning this to show you how important and people were really
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into this back in the 19th century.
Now, some years ago, many years ago, I'm trying to think, three decades ago
at least, I went through 912 pages of that debate.
Oh, wow. Going through it just to get a feel, because I'm a history teacher
and love history, of how it was.
And it's just astounding, the erudition, the way they go back and forth,
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the formality of it and how the debate was structured and how it worked.
Nothing like our debates today.
It was a civil debate. It was a very civil debate as well.
However, we'll see in the Bible, it doesn't always stay civil.
So the classic format has been one person affirming a preposition or begin by
saying, for example, resolved, blue is the best color.
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And then the opponent takes the opposite view.
No, blue is not. And each takes turns then proving their point and gets time
to rebut and then a final statement at the end.
And normally there are judges and usually an audience to assess the whole thing.
The last debate on ABC was more formal than anything I've seen in decades because they muted the mic.
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You couldn't speak when the other person was speaking. You had to stay there.
There wasn't an audience. And it was formal. It wasn't classic formal,
but it was really more formal than before.
Which it needed to be. It needed to be. It needed to be. And I hear the one
tomorrow night is supposed to be that way, too. Well, we'll see.
And of course, there are informal debates taking place every day.
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Some of the ones we look here at the Bible might be considered informal because
no one set up a time and a schedule for it. They just happen.
So at the office, over the water cooler, at family gatherings,
lovely thing to have debates at Thanksgiving Day across the turkey table.
Who are you voting for? Yeah.
And even husbands and wives have debates. Well, there's been from the beginning
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those who debate and dispute with each other using worldly wisdom.
This is the debate that Job has with his three friends. They're using worldly
wisdom, and he is telling them that doesn't work. I'm coming at it from a different perspective.
So we're going to look at Job 7, verses 5 through 7 first.
He speaks about the hardship he's having, and he doesn't deserve this hardship he's going through.
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He lost his family, all of his wealth. He's got some kind of sores and who knows
what running off his body. And he says in chapter 6, the previous chapter,
verse 10, he's not denied the Holy One.
So why is he suffering like this? So listen to Job.
Job 7, 5 through 7. My flesh is clothed with worms and dirt.
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My skin hardens, then breaks out afresh. My days are swifter than a weaver's
shuttle and come to their end without hope.
Remember that my life is a breath.
My eye will never again see good.
Right. Then one of the three men, a fellow named Bildad, he replies to Job 8, 3.
Then Bildad the Shuite answered and said, How long will you say these things?
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And the words of your mouth be a great wind.
Does God pervert justice, or does the Almighty pervert the right?
In this debate, we do have some barbs fly where serious matters.
He calls Job basically a windbag, which is interesting, because later on in
chapter 12, Job says, Surely you are the men, and wisdom will die with you.
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Very sarcastic comment. Not very good friends for the guy who's suffering. No, not at all.
However, what Job wants to do is to have a debate with God. So, Job 13, 1 through 3.
Behold, my eye has seen all this, my ear has heard and understood it.
What you know I also know. I am not inferior to you, but I would speak to the
Almighty, and I desire to argue my case with God.
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So, Job, if we put it in formal terms, is saying, resolved. I've got a great case here.
Well, he gets his chance to debate the debater of the ages, Job 38, verse 4, verses.
Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said, Who is this that darkens
counsel by words without knowledge?
Dress for action like a man. I will question you, and you will make it known to me.
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Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me if you have understanding.
Yes, in formal terms, God is saying, Resolved, you do not have any understanding
of your earlier assertions. You are wrong, and here's why.
And of course, God gives them all those reasons why.
And then in Job 42, verses 1 and 3, and then 5 and 6, we get Job's response
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to God's portion of the debate.
Then Job answered the Lord and said, I know that you can do all things and that
no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?
Therefore, I have uttered what
I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.
I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you.
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Therefore, I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.
There are great truths to be learned in these debates we're going to look at
here in the scripture for the next half hour or so.
Here's the first one, and there's 10 of them. First one, those who think they've
got a good case against God will wither beneath his debating skills and wisdom,
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but God allowed Job to debate him.
God took it. God took it, yeah. Yeah, he's big enough to handle our questions
and our- Concerns. Yes. Our perplexities. Yes.
Now, next, there's a debate between Abraham and the Lord over the future of Sodom.
Abraham's concerned because Lot and his family, they're his nephew and all their family.
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The Lord, if we put it in formal terms, he says, resolved. Sodom's got to go.
Abraham's response, will not the judge of all the earth do right?
Now, when the Lord takes his turn then, after Abraham has said that,
we hear this in Genesis 18, 26. And the Lord said, If I find at Sodom fifty
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righteous in the city, I will spare the whole place for their sake.
Right. And so this debate goes back and forth.
Getting down, getting down. Fifty, forty-five, fifty. Getting down,
yeah. Finally to this number, Genesis 18, 32.
Then he said, O let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again,
but this once. Suppose ten are found there.
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He answered, For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.
Okay, now, Job takes on God, God takes on Job.
Abraham takes on God, God takes on Abraham. What's the difference?
What's the difference between Job and Abraham? And here's the second truth.
Job realizes who he is debating. He's debating God.
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After the debate is over, he realizes it. Abraham begins this way.
Listen to it carefully. Genesis 18, 27.
Abraham answered and said, Behold, I have undertaken to speak to the Lord.
Right. He starts the debate with a very humble attitude.
Job repented in dust and ashes at the end because he didn't start with the right attitude.
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Abraham started that way. That's right. So that's another lesson to learn about
debating, especially when you're involved with God.
Job repented in dust and ashes, but Abraham was wise enough to start with the
acknowledgement that he was dust and ashes.
Who won the debate with Abraham and God? Well, it's a draw pending investigation.
Sometimes we must wait, and that's the third truth. Got to wait sometimes for
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certain debates to find out actually who was the winner, not Sodom. Sodom is the loser.
Moses has a debate with the Lord. This is one of the great ones in the Old Testament.
Over the future of Israel, they meet up, and the Lord says, if I were to put
it in formal terms, resolved, Israel must go, and I'll start over with you,
Moses. And Moses replies, resolved, No, and here's my reasons.
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Exodus 32, 9-10.
And the Lord said to Moses, I have seen this people, and behold,
it is a stiff-necked people.
Now, therefore, let me alone, that my wrath may burn hot against them,
and I may consume them, in order that I may make a great nation of you.
Yes, Moses gives his reasons. It's all about your power, Lord.
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Lord, the Egyptians have seen that.
What will they say if you take them out to the wilderness to slay them?
What about the promise you made to the ancestors, to Abraham,
Isaac, Jacob, all those?
What about them? What is the Lord's response then to Moses' part in this debate? Exodus 32, 14.
And the Lord relented from the disaster that he had spoken of bringing on his people.
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This is an amazing thing, how Moses changed God's mind.
Yes, yes. Yes, it's amazing, too, because when people who don't like the Old
Testament, they pick out certain things that make God to be,
as one book says, a vindictive bully, not understanding all the things I think they need.
On the other hand, they do not ever look at these passages.
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So what's the third truth we come to here? And this is good.
God is not hindered by pride.
Who won? Moses. Why? He had the facts.
And God is fair and doesn't change his past words to fit the present situation
like politicians do. Ooh, that cuts deep. Yes.
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And, of course, famously, David and Goliath in a big showdown in the Valley
of Elah, debating which of them is going to die in the most horrible way.
They go back and forth on that. And you'll find that in 1 Samuel 17.
Well, some debates must follow through with action to confirm the affirmation,
and that's what happens with the giant and David.
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This debate confirms that God is God, as some debates do, which is the fourth
truth, and that was David's point.
Today, you're going to see that God is the God of Israel, and you cannot stand against him.
And so the fourth truth is, these debates, especially in the Bible here,
confirm time and time again that God is God, and we get to learn how God is.
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He can be wrathful, in a sense, with Job, upset, but still engage Job.
Or he can be, well, Moses, you're right.
So wonderful things we learn about God in debates as well as people.
What's the fourth? This is that God is God.
This was with David and Goliath, because David says, you're uncircumcised,
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and you spoke against the God of Israel, and this day he's going to show you
that he is the God of Israel and you're not. Gotcha. Yeah.
We come to Joshua. Joshua, he debated with the people in his last words to them,
the book of Joshua, Joshua 24, and basically, again, resolved,
you people are going to serve other gods, but not me and mine.
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We will serve the Lord. Me and my house will serve the Lord.
And then the people, of course, they respond when they get their chance to answer
in this debate. No, no, no, we're going to serve God. We're going to serve God.
Then we have Joshua's response to that. Joshua 24, verses 15 and 16.
And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will
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serve, whether the gods your father served in the region beyond the river,
or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Then the people answered, Far be it from us that we should forsake the Lord to serve other gods.
Right. So the debate continues with Joshua once again affirming,
You can't. You can't. Joshua 24, 19. But Joshua said to the people,
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You are not able to serve the Lord, for he is a holy God. He is a jealous God.
He will not forgive your transgressions or your sins.
So this goes back and forth as debates do.
Joshua finally says, Okay, you've chosen to serve the Lord. You are witnesses
against yourself. And they say, Yes, we are.
Who won the debate? Read the very next book in the Bible called the book of
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Judges, which is a disaster when it comes to Israel's faith. Just horrible.
And this is the fifth truth.
Sometimes it takes decades and more to know the outcome.
And that's what Judges does. It covers about 200 years and shows that Joshua's point won the day.
200 years later makes the point.
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God is in the long game, so we don't always get instant gratification to our answers.
That's right. So, that's the fifth truth. In Greek society, most people know
about Socrates, and he debated everybody. He loved to debate.
He would ask questions and test people, and he was the wise person,
or the Greeks thought so, of his day.
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Here's a quote from Epoch Times about Socrates from an article of theirs back in September of 2019.
Quote, what he is most remember for, this is Socrates, is teaching people to
question, what he called examine, their assumptions. Now, we're going to get that with Paul later.
And Paul was a classical debater.
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What he is most remembered for is teaching people to question,
what he called examine, their assumptions in the search for truth and justice.
The most widely circulated Socrates quote is this one. Listen to it.
The unexamined life is not worth living.
And that is wise. And it fits into a biblical context in the realm of redemption.
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He exhorts his fellow Greeks to do what the Bible calls Christians to do,
examine ourselves to see if we're where we need to be and ought to be. 2 Corinthians 13 5.
Examine yourself to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves.
Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you,
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unless indeed you fail to meet the test?
Examine yourself. How often have we done that? Do we do it often enough? No. No. Randy says no.
And there are times that we've got to sit down and have a debate with ourself.
Indeed. You say, well, what does that sound like and why would I do something like that?
Something I've been doing recently. Listen to Psalm 42, verse 11.
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11 Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you in turmoil within me?
Hope in God, for I shall again praise him, my salvation and my God.
And so this is the sixth truth so often neglected.
Debate yourself with a view toward getting back to God. Be hard on yourself in that sense.
And Paul, of course, as we said, was a classic debater. He was used to debating
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together with his fellow believers as well as with pagans. Let's start with believers.
First, Acts 15, verses 1 and 2. But some men came down from Judea and were teaching
the brothers, unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.
And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them,
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Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem
to the apostles and the elders about this question.
You have Luke with his classic understatement. Yes, yes. No small argument. Yes, yes.
No small dissension and debate. And I would have loved to have been there to heard that.
So what is this? Basically, we're going to move the debate to headquarters.
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Some debates need to have the greatest forum possible.
Going to Jerusalem and getting everybody there, that's headquarters for the
beginning of Christianity, of course.
That's where they're going to have the debate, and you can read about it in Acts 15.
So, this is the seventh truth. Some debates need to have the greatest forum possible.
Who won the debate? Well, according to Acts 15, Paul's side did, as proclaimed by James.
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All right? But the Pharisees, they didn't buy it. They were not open to truth.
And so, they're forever trying through the book of Acts to subvert the churches
that Paul starts and is trying to nourish and persevere with.
Some people will never be won over. That's the eighth truth.
Debates, best debate possible about explaining something with the truth.
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There'll still be those who will not be won over.
And as with Bates, there is rancor and dissension, as we've already heard.
And in the synagogues, as well as in the Greek marketplace of Athens,
Paul debated, disputed with the pagans there and the philosophers there.
There were Epicureans, I'm sure Stoics and other kinds, trying to make his point.
So let's, but first let's go to another synagogue with believers.
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17, Acts 17, 1 through 3.
Now, when they had passed through Epiphalus and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica,
and there was a synagogue of the Jews.
And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with
them from the Scriptures,
explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to
rise from the dead, and saying, This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.
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Explaining and proving because he was reasoning with them.
Mr. Mounce, our go-to guy for the Greek New Testament, says the word reason
here means basically to argue, to reason, or to dispute. In other words, to debate.
And notice, according to Luke, Paul was explaining and proving,
meaning in debating things can be proved.
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So either you accept it or you don't.
Well, as Paul moves away from Thessalonica because he gets chased out again
by those other Pharisees who wouldn't accept the debate results from Acts 15,
he continues down in Athens to debate with people.
Listen to this, Acts 17, verses 16 and 17.
Now, while Paul was waiting for them in Athens, his spirit was provoked within
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him as he saw that the city was full of idols.
So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons,
and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there.
Yes, and those were pagan philosophers, and that's why he ends up on Mars Hill
preaching to the intelligentsia of Athens as to whether or not he should be
so-called licensed to be a philosopher and debater there in Athens.
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If we're thinking rightly as Christians, we know some things should never be debated. Why?
Because some things are downright ridiculous to debate, and some people just
want to cause divisions.
And you've got to make a discernment between a legitimate debate and a legitimate
debater versus someone who just wants to split things up. Cause trouble.
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Cause trouble. Listen to this from Titus chapter 3, verses 9 to 10.
But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about
the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice,
have nothing more to do with him.
Right. He's a self-condemned person, says Paul. And this is the ninth truth.
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Some things are not to be debated.
There are some things that are worth a debate, and there are some things that are unworthy.
And we've got to get our wisdom sharper, knowing which is which.
When to enter a debate, perhaps, with God's help, and when to say,
that's not worth debating.
Okay. So who is our primary model for debating? And I think you'll find this interesting.
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The one who is beyond dispute. Well, it's Jesus. and that shouldn't surprise
us, since Jesus debates, disputes his detractors all through the Gospels.
For background on his debating, let's start with John 1.1.
In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Yes. So, Jesus being the Word, we should not be surprised that he uses that
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word from the very beginning.
That word so many times took the form and shape of debate, especially in John's Gospel.
If you read the classic chapter, chapter 8, which we're not going to do here,
but I encourage you to do that.
It is a great example of how Jesus could debate, and it does involve barbs flying
back and forth between him and his opponents.
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With the coming of Jesus, the final debate begins.
Of course, in the last week of his life, debating takes center place,
and we're going to look at that.
Do you realize at the beginning of his ministry, it took place,
and the beginning of his ministry was not when his baptism took place,
but the age of 12 when he went to Jerusalem with his mom and earthly dad.
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Luke 2, 46-47.
After three days they found him in the temple, sitting among the teachers,
listening to them and asking them questions.
And all who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers. Right.
Listening to them and asking questions.
Socratic method. This is exactly what Socrates did in Athens.
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And this is our 10th truth. Jesus is the model par excellence in how to debate
your opponent, which in this case is Satan.
Jesus' ministry of debating began at 12. How many of us at 12 years old would
sit down and debate in serious things? No.
Not me. Yeah. Just whether it was G.I. Joe or Transformers. Well, that's basically it.
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Or was it Johnny Mac Brown or Hopalong Cassidy? Or was it the Lone Ranger?
Man, that goes way back to the late 40s and early 50s.
Anyway, Jesus, as a good debater, he listened, then he asked.
And he would ask and listen.
Now, he didn't know Socrates, but he knew that Socratic method.
And by the end of his ministry, he's involved in the greatest debates.
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It's the climaxing of his whole career, listening and answering questions.
They have a debate about taxes.
Should we pay taxes? This is going back to Matthew 22.
Debates about the resurrection. How can there be a resurrection?
Sadducees didn't believe in it. So there was a debate there.
And then about the greatest commandment. What's the greatest commandment?
Jesus listens and answers effectively, winning the debates.
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Interestingly, on the last one, what is the greatest commandment?
You know, here, O Israel, the Lord our God is one. Love the Lord with all your
heart, soul, mind, and strength. Second is like it. Love your neighbors as yourself.
There's no greater commandment than these. and the fellow that are listening
says, you have answered correctly.
That's more important than all the sacrifices and all the rigmarole,
the mosaic laws put together.
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So Jesus listens and answers and effectively wins debates. And some people actually.
Paying attention and realize he won that debate. Interesting,
on the last one, the scribe declares, yes, Jesus is the winner.
So let's look at that. Mark 12, 32, 33.
And the scribe said to him, you are right, teacher. You have truly said that
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he is one and there is no other besides him.
And to love him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all
the strength and to love one neighbor as oneself is much more than the whole
burnt offerings and sacrifices.
Now, how effective was that debate? He gets this compliment from the scribe,
but in the gospel accounts, we also have this added addition.
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Jesus looks and says, you are not far from the kingdom of God.
So, yes, we can learn much from the debates of the Bible.
Then having listened enough, he now asked the kind of debate question that finally
silences the opposition.
Because he said, I think I've debated enough. I want to ask a question that
will end the debate. Matthew 22, 41 through 45.
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Now, while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question,
saying, What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?
They said to him, The son of David. He said to them, How is it then that David
in the Spirit calls him Lord, saying, The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet.
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If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?
And no one was able to answer him a word, not from that day did anyone dare
to ask him any more questions.
Well, there are practical aspects of debating that we Christians need to zero in on.
Here's the prerequisite. Listen carefully because our biggest debate will always be with Satan.
(29:59):
Satan. I can remember my uncle trying to quit smoking old gold cigarettes.
And when I smoked, I tried old gold once and like Like my lungs collapsed on me. Yeah.
They were the epitome of no filter and tree bark. Yes. Yeah.
Basically. Yeah. And he said, man, he said, me and the devil have gone round
and round on this, but I'm.
(30:20):
Hubert won that battle. James 4, 7. Submit yourselves, therefore,
to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Yes, and Peter chimes right in with another one just like this. 1 Peter 5, 8 and 9.
Be sober-minded, be watchful. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like
a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
(30:40):
Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are
being experienced by your brotherhood
throughout the world. So what is the priority in resisting Satan?
How do we resist Satan? Do we just will it to be done? Do we psych ourselves up?
What do we do? Using the Word of God. This is the first one.
This is the top priority.
(31:01):
Using the Word of God and using it rightly because Satan has misused it from the beginning.
Remember Genesis 3-1, his little conversation with Eve?
Yea, hath God said, you cannot eat from any of these trees. Keep in mind,
this is not a debate with Eve. This is important.
For in a debate, there's two opponents. They face each other,
(31:22):
knowing they are in opposition to each other.
Eve is clueless that the serpent is her opponent. In fact, she thinks he's there to help her.
The better debate scene is Satan debating with the Lord over the righteousness
of Job, if you remember that.
So this is what Satan wants, that his opponent will lose the debate and follow
(31:44):
it up with a disastrous action of some kind.
So, let's consider that. Jesus knows Satan is his opponent as surely as Satan knows Jesus is his.
Jesus debated Satan in the wilderness after 40 days of intense spiritual warfare and fasting.
And so, he knew indeed Satan was his opponent, unlike Eve or unlike Adam.
(32:08):
Listen to how this began. Mark 1, 12 and 13.
The Spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness, and he was in the
wilderness 40 days being tempted by Satan.
And he was with the wild animals and the angels were ministering to him.
He was in the wilderness 40 days being tempted. So the temptation spanned 40 days.
(32:29):
The three that we're all familiar with were the climax of this 40 days of debate.
That's not like the one we just talked about in the early 1800s.
Yeah, 912 pages. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.
And would it not be interesting to hear the preliminaries of that debate?
Yeah. We got the highlights. We got the highlight. Yeah, the finality.
(32:50):
So let's take a look then at those last three, one at a time.
Matthew 4, first four verses.
Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.
And the tempter came and said to him, If you are the Son of God,
command these stones to become loaves of bread. But he answered,
(33:12):
It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.
Note that led by the Spirit and Luke's filled with the Spirit.
How do we know if we're being filled or led in this matter?
Remember what James and Peter, what they said, you got to submit to God and resist.
We don't fight temptation alone. We submit to God. We start with God, not with our opponent.
(33:36):
And that also means we start with his word. simply submit and
pray for that word that suits your situation don't pray
for wisdom other than the wisdom of the word for that particular debate
that you're having with satan where the word of god you need please note jesus
did not philosophize or he didn't use vocabulary out of satan's range they both
(33:58):
use the same playbook the bible and he's familiar with it jesus obviously and but so So was Satan.
So that being the case, let's take a look at what's going on here. Jesus is truly hungry.
One of the great understatements in the Bible after 40 days.
Satan begins the debate with the assertion that being the son of God,
(34:19):
and of course, translations says, you know, if you are, but that carries really
the sense of, since you're the son of God, why aren't you doing this?
Okay, that's the challenge. You can turn this stone into bread.
So it's a formality would be affirmed, resolved.
Why hunger? you're the son of God. And then of course, Jesus,
the reputation resolved, I'll eat when God tells me to eat.
(34:42):
I think that's great, which how many parents are getting their,
raising their kids up would love to say, eat when I tell you to eat.
And so he quotes Deuteronomy and all three of these he's quoting from the book of Deuteronomy.
In other words, when we are vulnerable, Satan attacks and his solution will
meet his needs, not ours, if we carry it out.
(35:02):
So as Peter and James namesake. Jesus was always first submitted to God and
no one else, and that brings clarity to hear the word we need.
Jesus knows God will provide. He waits on his word, not Satan's.
Well, Satan then says, basically, oh, since you're quoting the Bible,
let's stick with the Bible, the playbook.
(35:22):
Affirmed. Since the Bible has entered the debate, sounds like a good lawyer,
right? You first raised this question, so yeah.
Since you brought it up. Since you brought it up, yeah.
A quote from Psalm 91, for I know you, Jesus, want to be recognized.
Well, there is truth in that. He does want to be known as the Messiah.
I mean, that's going to come to the fore.
(35:43):
So, let's look at this, how it rolls out in the debate, Matthew 4, verses 5 and 6.
Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the
temple and said to him, if you are the son of God,
throw yourself down, for it's written, he will command his angels concerning
you, and on their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.
(36:05):
Satan appears to Jesus' pride, the desire to be acknowledged as something terrific,
and who hasn't had that temptation?
I want to be recognized as a great athlete. I want to be recognized as a great
speaker. I want to be recognized as a great funny guy.
I want to be recognized as the guy who does the good works, and it goes on and on and on.
(36:26):
So, what is Jesus' Genesis's response to refutation, since you're now quoting
the Bible, let's continue to do that since you brought it up.
The Bible has something to say about quoting out of context, Matthew 4, 7.
Jesus said to him, again, it is written, you shall not put the Lord your God to the test.
Right. Again, from the book of Deuteronomy.
(36:47):
Well, then Satan has one final word here.
Affirmed. I know you want glory. Well, he does.
What does he say in John 17? Father, to give me the glory I had with you before the world began.
How does Jesus respond in this part of the debate? Matthew 4, verses 8 and 9.
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms
(37:09):
of the world and their glory.
And he said to him, All these I will give you if you will fall down and worship me. Right.
If you want to be a ruler, a leader, a tyrant, an emperor, a Caesar,
a president, a prime minister, this is what I will give you. I know you want it.
I know, as Michael Lindell says, I know you want it. That's right.
(37:31):
Jesus' refutation.
Basically says, you brought the Bible into this, so here's what the Bible says, Matthew 4, 10-11.
Then Jesus said to him, Be gone, Satan, for it's written, You shall worship
the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.
Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came, and were ministering to him.
(37:52):
Ministering to him. Three times he quotes from Deuteronomy.
Never let anyone tell you the Old Testament is irrelevant, or that it's just history.
Deuteronomy is full of history, but it's the history we need to know,
and Jesus knew it and used it in this debate.
And there will come that time to end the debate. And if we're paying attention,
(38:13):
that will be the time when it becomes clear that our opponent isn't about getting
at the truth, but getting us to embrace the lie.
That's why Jesus says, be gone, Satan. It's time to end the debate.
It's clear what Satan wants, and it's not a legitimate debate.
He wants Jesus to capitulate to his desires.
(38:36):
And so, when it's clear that our opponent isn't about getting at the truth,
but getting us to embrace the lie, timed in the debate.
And when we end it, we will know we've won, because the ministering refreshments
that will come from the Lord will be upon us as surely as they were Jesus, and we will rejoice.
(38:56):
And that's the Christian expectation about debates.
Well, and as the debate ends, so does our podcast. We hope that you've enjoyed it today.
We hope that you've gotten the answers about what the nature of God's wisdom
is and how it contrasts with human debating and how God responds to our own
suffering and questioning about it to Him.
(39:19):
And if you have any other questions or comments, feel free to post those in
the comment section of the podcast where you're listening from now.
And if you have questions more private, please send them to eventsandexpectations at gmail.com.
That's the word events, the word and, and the word expectations at gmail.com.
We will always answer you.
(39:40):
This has been Current Events and Christian Expectations. And until next time, keep looking up.
Music.
(00:08):
Good day to you, brothers, sisters, friends, and new faces, and welcome to Current
Events and Christian Expectations.
And today in this podcast, we're going to be talking about the debates of this
age and the debater of the ages.
We will answer such questions as what is the nature of God's wisdom and how
does it contrast with human debating?
(00:29):
And how does God respond to the human debates of suffering and questioning Him?
We'll lead off with 1 Corinthians 1, verses 8 through 20, and we'll have many
other scriptures that we reference and read today, and we'll put those in the overview.
But with the debate of debates upon us, let's just dig right in.
Yes, it's all about debates ever since ex-President Trump, former President
(00:53):
Trump, and President Biden had that debate a couple months or so ago.
And tomorrow, as we do this podcast, tomorrow is when President Trump and Vice
President and Harris will have a debate.
How important are debates? How should we understand debates?
How should we frame them from the Christian perspective?
Listen carefully as Randy reads 1 Corinthians 1 verses 18 through 20.
(01:16):
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment
of the discerning, I will thwart.
Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age?
Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
(01:39):
That is a tremendous statement in view of debates. The world's been debating,
you name it, and it's been debated for thousands of years. There's no debate.
Debates should be debunked. Yes, debunking the debate.
And that's basically what Paul does here. Where is the debater of this age?
He precedes that with who is wise, who is ascribed, meaning these people are
(02:01):
normally considered to be wise in their ways.
But he says, in view of what God has done with the cross, there's no debate
about that. That's the truth.
And it shows up the lack of wisdom in the world.
If you listen to the news, the world hangs on the Harris-Trump debate tomorrow.
As the U.S. goes, so goes the rest of the world. So many people think.
(02:22):
So many people think. So many people think, yes. You get on the BBC news broadcast
and there are other countries in the world besides our own. That's true. Things happen. Yes.
Where is the debater of this age?
Christian Standard Bible calls it debater. Amplified Bible says debater.
(02:43):
The NLT, excellent translation, says debater. The NLT has brilliant debater.
Sort of reading in a little bit to what they think Paul was getting at there,
that Paul was familiar with all kinds of debaters, and they were considered
brilliant by the people of his day.
But Paul says the cross has made all those debates unwise and has put them in their place.
(03:04):
Because the cross has destroyed that once for all.
And it's important in one of our missions here at Christian Expectations is
to show how Scripture takes things of the world that are current events that
everybody thinks are so important and puts them in the Christian context so
you can understand them.
They're not that important. They do things, and there's something to be said
(03:25):
for them, but they're not that important.
Now, in our U.S. history, debates were, back in the 19th century,
are far more plentiful, and they were seen to be very important,
especially if the subject was a worthy one, and quite often it would be something
about Christian doctrine. Yeah. Yes.
I went to a few church debates where a Baptist church would debate an amillennialist
(03:51):
church or something like that,
and it was in the 1990s, and they seemed to even then be just going out of style.
They don't, they don't, they're not, they're not in style. Yes.
There's a time for everything. And in course of God's providence in the church of Christ tradition,
(04:12):
there's a fellow named Alexander Campbell, uh, well-known to those of us in
that tradition, but keep in mind, you may never have heard of him,
but historians will tell you he was as famous as Billy Graham was in our day.
He was really well-known and he engaged in many public debates and public debates
were were a big thing in the 19th century.
(04:33):
Between 1820s and 1940s, he was involved in many debates. Here's something from Wikipedia.
For a while, he was wary of getting involved in public debates,
and in June of 1820, he nevertheless debated Reverend John Walker,
a Baptist preacher at Mount Pleasant, Ohio, on baptism, and since then regularly took part in debates.
(04:53):
Some of them gained national and international attention after their transcripts
were published. In 1823, he debated with Reverend William L.
McCullough, a Presbyterian minister on infant baptism.
In April of 1829, with Robert Owen on socialism, and of course,
what it means from the Christian perspective.
(05:13):
And in January of 1837, with Archbishop of Cincinnati.
John Baptist Purcell on Protestantism and Roman Catholicism.
Then in September of 1843, he defended the Restoration Movement,
a movement to get everybody back to the Bible, and a debate with Reverend Nathan L.
Rice, who represented traditional Presbyterianism. Let's stop there.
(05:37):
He debated everybody. He debated everybody. Now, this debate with Rice goes
on for, it's published, you can get it, 912 pages.
And it took place from November the 15th, 1843, to December the 2nd, 1843.
Yes, they took bathroom breaks and went to sleep and ate food.
But I'm only mentioning this to show you how important and people were really
(05:58):
into this back in the 19th century.
Now, some years ago, many years ago, I'm trying to think, three decades ago
at least, I went through 912 pages of that debate.
Oh, wow. Going through it just to get a feel, because I'm a history teacher
and love history, of how it was.
And it's just astounding, the erudition, the way they go back and forth,
(06:22):
the formality of it and how the debate was structured and how it worked.
Nothing like our debates today.
It was a civil debate. It was a very civil debate as well.
However, we'll see in the Bible, it doesn't always stay civil.
So the classic format has been one person affirming a preposition or begin by
saying, for example, resolved, blue is the best color.
(06:43):
And then the opponent takes the opposite view.
No, blue is not. And each takes turns then proving their point and gets time
to rebut and then a final statement at the end.
And normally there are judges and usually an audience to assess the whole thing.
The last debate on ABC was more formal than anything I've seen in decades because they muted the mic.
(07:06):
You couldn't speak when the other person was speaking. You had to stay there.
There wasn't an audience. And it was formal. It wasn't classic formal,
but it was really more formal than before.
Which it needed to be. It needed to be. It needed to be. And I hear the one
tomorrow night is supposed to be that way, too. Well, we'll see.
And of course, there are informal debates taking place every day.
(07:29):
Some of the ones we look here at the Bible might be considered informal because
no one set up a time and a schedule for it. They just happen.
So at the office, over the water cooler, at family gatherings,
lovely thing to have debates at Thanksgiving Day across the turkey table.
Who are you voting for? Yeah.
And even husbands and wives have debates. Well, there's been from the beginning
(07:50):
those who debate and dispute with each other using worldly wisdom.
This is the debate that Job has with his three friends. They're using worldly
wisdom, and he is telling them that doesn't work. I'm coming at it from a different perspective.
So we're going to look at Job 7, verses 5 through 7 first.
He speaks about the hardship he's having, and he doesn't deserve this hardship he's going through.
(08:14):
He lost his family, all of his wealth. He's got some kind of sores and who knows
what running off his body. And he says in chapter 6, the previous chapter,
verse 10, he's not denied the Holy One.
So why is he suffering like this? So listen to Job.
Job 7, 5 through 7. My flesh is clothed with worms and dirt.
(08:34):
My skin hardens, then breaks out afresh. My days are swifter than a weaver's
shuttle and come to their end without hope.
Remember that my life is a breath.
My eye will never again see good.
Right. Then one of the three men, a fellow named Bildad, he replies to Job 8, 3.
Then Bildad the Shuite answered and said, How long will you say these things?
(08:59):
And the words of your mouth be a great wind.
Does God pervert justice, or does the Almighty pervert the right?
In this debate, we do have some barbs fly where serious matters.
He calls Job basically a windbag, which is interesting, because later on in
chapter 12, Job says, Surely you are the men, and wisdom will die with you.
(09:19):
Very sarcastic comment. Not very good friends for the guy who's suffering. No, not at all.
However, what Job wants to do is to have a debate with God. So, Job 13, 1 through 3.
Behold, my eye has seen all this, my ear has heard and understood it.
What you know I also know. I am not inferior to you, but I would speak to the
Almighty, and I desire to argue my case with God.
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So, Job, if we put it in formal terms, is saying, resolved. I've got a great case here.
Well, he gets his chance to debate the debater of the ages, Job 38, verse 4, verses.
Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said, Who is this that darkens
counsel by words without knowledge?
Dress for action like a man. I will question you, and you will make it known to me.
(10:07):
Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me if you have understanding.
Yes, in formal terms, God is saying, Resolved, you do not have any understanding
of your earlier assertions. You are wrong, and here's why.
And of course, God gives them all those reasons why.
And then in Job 42, verses 1 and 3, and then 5 and 6, we get Job's response
(10:30):
to God's portion of the debate.
Then Job answered the Lord and said, I know that you can do all things and that
no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?
Therefore, I have uttered what
I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.
I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you.
(10:54):
Therefore, I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.
There are great truths to be learned in these debates we're going to look at
here in the scripture for the next half hour or so.
Here's the first one, and there's 10 of them. First one, those who think they've
got a good case against God will wither beneath his debating skills and wisdom,
(11:15):
but God allowed Job to debate him.
God took it. God took it, yeah. Yeah, he's big enough to handle our questions
and our- Concerns. Yes. Our perplexities. Yes.
Now, next, there's a debate between Abraham and the Lord over the future of Sodom.
Abraham's concerned because Lot and his family, they're his nephew and all their family.
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The Lord, if we put it in formal terms, he says, resolved. Sodom's got to go.
Abraham's response, will not the judge of all the earth do right?
Now, when the Lord takes his turn then, after Abraham has said that,
we hear this in Genesis 18, 26. And the Lord said, If I find at Sodom fifty
(11:59):
righteous in the city, I will spare the whole place for their sake.
Right. And so this debate goes back and forth.
Getting down, getting down. Fifty, forty-five, fifty. Getting down,
yeah. Finally to this number, Genesis 18, 32.
Then he said, O let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again,
but this once. Suppose ten are found there.
(12:21):
He answered, For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.
Okay, now, Job takes on God, God takes on Job.
Abraham takes on God, God takes on Abraham. What's the difference?
What's the difference between Job and Abraham? And here's the second truth.
Job realizes who he is debating. He's debating God.
(12:42):
After the debate is over, he realizes it. Abraham begins this way.
Listen to it carefully. Genesis 18, 27.
Abraham answered and said, Behold, I have undertaken to speak to the Lord.
Right. He starts the debate with a very humble attitude.
Job repented in dust and ashes at the end because he didn't start with the right attitude.
(13:08):
Abraham started that way. That's right. So that's another lesson to learn about
debating, especially when you're involved with God.
Job repented in dust and ashes, but Abraham was wise enough to start with the
acknowledgement that he was dust and ashes.
Who won the debate with Abraham and God? Well, it's a draw pending investigation.
Sometimes we must wait, and that's the third truth. Got to wait sometimes for
(13:32):
certain debates to find out actually who was the winner, not Sodom. Sodom is the loser.
Moses has a debate with the Lord. This is one of the great ones in the Old Testament.
Over the future of Israel, they meet up, and the Lord says, if I were to put
it in formal terms, resolved, Israel must go, and I'll start over with you,
Moses. And Moses replies, resolved, No, and here's my reasons.
(13:57):
Exodus 32, 9-10.
And the Lord said to Moses, I have seen this people, and behold,
it is a stiff-necked people.
Now, therefore, let me alone, that my wrath may burn hot against them,
and I may consume them, in order that I may make a great nation of you.
Yes, Moses gives his reasons. It's all about your power, Lord.
(14:19):
Lord, the Egyptians have seen that.
What will they say if you take them out to the wilderness to slay them?
What about the promise you made to the ancestors, to Abraham,
Isaac, Jacob, all those?
What about them? What is the Lord's response then to Moses' part in this debate? Exodus 32, 14.
And the Lord relented from the disaster that he had spoken of bringing on his people.
(14:41):
This is an amazing thing, how Moses changed God's mind.
Yes, yes. Yes, it's amazing, too, because when people who don't like the Old
Testament, they pick out certain things that make God to be,
as one book says, a vindictive bully, not understanding all the things I think they need.
On the other hand, they do not ever look at these passages.
(15:02):
So what's the third truth we come to here? And this is good.
God is not hindered by pride.
Who won? Moses. Why? He had the facts.
And God is fair and doesn't change his past words to fit the present situation
like politicians do. Ooh, that cuts deep. Yes.
(15:24):
And, of course, famously, David and Goliath in a big showdown in the Valley
of Elah, debating which of them is going to die in the most horrible way.
They go back and forth on that. And you'll find that in 1 Samuel 17.
Well, some debates must follow through with action to confirm the affirmation,
and that's what happens with the giant and David.
(15:46):
This debate confirms that God is God, as some debates do, which is the fourth
truth, and that was David's point.
Today, you're going to see that God is the God of Israel, and you cannot stand against him.
And so the fourth truth is, these debates, especially in the Bible here,
confirm time and time again that God is God, and we get to learn how God is.
(16:06):
He can be wrathful, in a sense, with Job, upset, but still engage Job.
Or he can be, well, Moses, you're right.
So wonderful things we learn about God in debates as well as people.
What's the fourth? This is that God is God.
This was with David and Goliath, because David says, you're uncircumcised,
(16:27):
and you spoke against the God of Israel, and this day he's going to show you
that he is the God of Israel and you're not. Gotcha. Yeah.
We come to Joshua. Joshua, he debated with the people in his last words to them,
the book of Joshua, Joshua 24, and basically, again, resolved,
you people are going to serve other gods, but not me and mine.
(16:48):
We will serve the Lord. Me and my house will serve the Lord.
And then the people, of course, they respond when they get their chance to answer
in this debate. No, no, no, we're going to serve God. We're going to serve God.
Then we have Joshua's response to that. Joshua 24, verses 15 and 16.
And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will
(17:09):
serve, whether the gods your father served in the region beyond the river,
or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Then the people answered, Far be it from us that we should forsake the Lord to serve other gods.
Right. So the debate continues with Joshua once again affirming,
You can't. You can't. Joshua 24, 19. But Joshua said to the people,
(17:33):
You are not able to serve the Lord, for he is a holy God. He is a jealous God.
He will not forgive your transgressions or your sins.
So this goes back and forth as debates do.
Joshua finally says, Okay, you've chosen to serve the Lord. You are witnesses
against yourself. And they say, Yes, we are.
Who won the debate? Read the very next book in the Bible called the book of
(17:56):
Judges, which is a disaster when it comes to Israel's faith. Just horrible.
And this is the fifth truth.
Sometimes it takes decades and more to know the outcome.
And that's what Judges does. It covers about 200 years and shows that Joshua's point won the day.
200 years later makes the point.
(18:17):
God is in the long game, so we don't always get instant gratification to our answers.
That's right. So, that's the fifth truth. In Greek society, most people know
about Socrates, and he debated everybody. He loved to debate.
He would ask questions and test people, and he was the wise person,
or the Greeks thought so, of his day.
(18:38):
Here's a quote from Epoch Times about Socrates from an article of theirs back in September of 2019.
Quote, what he is most remember for, this is Socrates, is teaching people to
question, what he called examine, their assumptions. Now, we're going to get that with Paul later.
And Paul was a classical debater.
(19:01):
What he is most remembered for is teaching people to question,
what he called examine, their assumptions in the search for truth and justice.
The most widely circulated Socrates quote is this one. Listen to it.
The unexamined life is not worth living.
And that is wise. And it fits into a biblical context in the realm of redemption.
(19:24):
He exhorts his fellow Greeks to do what the Bible calls Christians to do,
examine ourselves to see if we're where we need to be and ought to be. 2 Corinthians 13 5.
Examine yourself to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves.
Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you,
(19:44):
unless indeed you fail to meet the test?
Examine yourself. How often have we done that? Do we do it often enough? No. No. Randy says no.
And there are times that we've got to sit down and have a debate with ourself.
Indeed. You say, well, what does that sound like and why would I do something like that?
Something I've been doing recently. Listen to Psalm 42, verse 11.
(20:06):
11 Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you in turmoil within me?
Hope in God, for I shall again praise him, my salvation and my God.
And so this is the sixth truth so often neglected.
Debate yourself with a view toward getting back to God. Be hard on yourself in that sense.
And Paul, of course, as we said, was a classic debater. He was used to debating
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together with his fellow believers as well as with pagans. Let's start with believers.
First, Acts 15, verses 1 and 2. But some men came down from Judea and were teaching
the brothers, unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.
And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them,
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Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem
to the apostles and the elders about this question.
You have Luke with his classic understatement. Yes, yes. No small argument. Yes, yes.
No small dissension and debate. And I would have loved to have been there to heard that.
So what is this? Basically, we're going to move the debate to headquarters.
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Some debates need to have the greatest forum possible.
Going to Jerusalem and getting everybody there, that's headquarters for the
beginning of Christianity, of course.
That's where they're going to have the debate, and you can read about it in Acts 15.
So, this is the seventh truth. Some debates need to have the greatest forum possible.
Who won the debate? Well, according to Acts 15, Paul's side did, as proclaimed by James.
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All right? But the Pharisees, they didn't buy it. They were not open to truth.
And so, they're forever trying through the book of Acts to subvert the churches
that Paul starts and is trying to nourish and persevere with.
Some people will never be won over. That's the eighth truth.
Debates, best debate possible about explaining something with the truth.
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There'll still be those who will not be won over.
And as with Bates, there is rancor and dissension, as we've already heard.
And in the synagogues, as well as in the Greek marketplace of Athens,
Paul debated, disputed with the pagans there and the philosophers there.
There were Epicureans, I'm sure Stoics and other kinds, trying to make his point.
So let's, but first let's go to another synagogue with believers.
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17, Acts 17, 1 through 3.
Now, when they had passed through Epiphalus and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica,
and there was a synagogue of the Jews.
And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with
them from the Scriptures,
explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to
rise from the dead, and saying, This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.
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Explaining and proving because he was reasoning with them.
Mr. Mounce, our go-to guy for the Greek New Testament, says the word reason
here means basically to argue, to reason, or to dispute. In other words, to debate.
And notice, according to Luke, Paul was explaining and proving,
meaning in debating things can be proved.
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So either you accept it or you don't.
Well, as Paul moves away from Thessalonica because he gets chased out again
by those other Pharisees who wouldn't accept the debate results from Acts 15,
he continues down in Athens to debate with people.
Listen to this, Acts 17, verses 16 and 17.
Now, while Paul was waiting for them in Athens, his spirit was provoked within
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him as he saw that the city was full of idols.
So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons,
and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there.
Yes, and those were pagan philosophers, and that's why he ends up on Mars Hill
preaching to the intelligentsia of Athens as to whether or not he should be
so-called licensed to be a philosopher and debater there in Athens.
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If we're thinking rightly as Christians, we know some things should never be debated. Why?
Because some things are downright ridiculous to debate, and some people just
want to cause divisions.
And you've got to make a discernment between a legitimate debate and a legitimate
debater versus someone who just wants to split things up. Cause trouble.
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Cause trouble. Listen to this from Titus chapter 3, verses 9 to 10.
But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about
the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice,
have nothing more to do with him.
Right. He's a self-condemned person, says Paul. And this is the ninth truth.
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Some things are not to be debated.
There are some things that are worth a debate, and there are some things that are unworthy.
And we've got to get our wisdom sharper, knowing which is which.
When to enter a debate, perhaps, with God's help, and when to say,
that's not worth debating.
Okay. So who is our primary model for debating? And I think you'll find this interesting.
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The one who is beyond dispute. Well, it's Jesus. and that shouldn't surprise
us, since Jesus debates, disputes his detractors all through the Gospels.
For background on his debating, let's start with John 1.1.
In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Yes. So, Jesus being the Word, we should not be surprised that he uses that
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word from the very beginning.
That word so many times took the form and shape of debate, especially in John's Gospel.
If you read the classic chapter, chapter 8, which we're not going to do here,
but I encourage you to do that.
It is a great example of how Jesus could debate, and it does involve barbs flying
back and forth between him and his opponents.
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With the coming of Jesus, the final debate begins.
Of course, in the last week of his life, debating takes center place,
and we're going to look at that.
Do you realize at the beginning of his ministry, it took place,
and the beginning of his ministry was not when his baptism took place,
but the age of 12 when he went to Jerusalem with his mom and earthly dad.
(26:19):
Luke 2, 46-47.
After three days they found him in the temple, sitting among the teachers,
listening to them and asking them questions.
And all who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers. Right.
Listening to them and asking questions.
Socratic method. This is exactly what Socrates did in Athens.
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And this is our 10th truth. Jesus is the model par excellence in how to debate
your opponent, which in this case is Satan.
Jesus' ministry of debating began at 12. How many of us at 12 years old would
sit down and debate in serious things? No.
Not me. Yeah. Just whether it was G.I. Joe or Transformers. Well, that's basically it.
(27:03):
Or was it Johnny Mac Brown or Hopalong Cassidy? Or was it the Lone Ranger?
Man, that goes way back to the late 40s and early 50s.
Anyway, Jesus, as a good debater, he listened, then he asked.
And he would ask and listen.
Now, he didn't know Socrates, but he knew that Socratic method.
And by the end of his ministry, he's involved in the greatest debates.
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It's the climaxing of his whole career, listening and answering questions.
They have a debate about taxes.
Should we pay taxes? This is going back to Matthew 22.
Debates about the resurrection. How can there be a resurrection?
Sadducees didn't believe in it. So there was a debate there.
And then about the greatest commandment. What's the greatest commandment?
Jesus listens and answers effectively, winning the debates.
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Interestingly, on the last one, what is the greatest commandment?
You know, here, O Israel, the Lord our God is one. Love the Lord with all your
heart, soul, mind, and strength. Second is like it. Love your neighbors as yourself.
There's no greater commandment than these. and the fellow that are listening
says, you have answered correctly.
That's more important than all the sacrifices and all the rigmarole,
the mosaic laws put together.
(28:10):
So Jesus listens and answers and effectively wins debates. And some people actually.
Paying attention and realize he won that debate. Interesting,
on the last one, the scribe declares, yes, Jesus is the winner.
So let's look at that. Mark 12, 32, 33.
And the scribe said to him, you are right, teacher. You have truly said that
(28:32):
he is one and there is no other besides him.
And to love him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all
the strength and to love one neighbor as oneself is much more than the whole
burnt offerings and sacrifices.
Now, how effective was that debate? He gets this compliment from the scribe,
but in the gospel accounts, we also have this added addition.
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Jesus looks and says, you are not far from the kingdom of God.
So, yes, we can learn much from the debates of the Bible.
Then having listened enough, he now asked the kind of debate question that finally
silences the opposition.
Because he said, I think I've debated enough. I want to ask a question that
will end the debate. Matthew 22, 41 through 45.
(29:14):
Now, while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question,
saying, What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?
They said to him, The son of David. He said to them, How is it then that David
in the Spirit calls him Lord, saying, The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet.
(29:35):
If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?
And no one was able to answer him a word, not from that day did anyone dare
to ask him any more questions.
Well, there are practical aspects of debating that we Christians need to zero in on.
Here's the prerequisite. Listen carefully because our biggest debate will always be with Satan.
(29:59):
Satan. I can remember my uncle trying to quit smoking old gold cigarettes.
And when I smoked, I tried old gold once and like Like my lungs collapsed on me. Yeah.
They were the epitome of no filter and tree bark. Yes. Yeah.
Basically. Yeah. And he said, man, he said, me and the devil have gone round
and round on this, but I'm.
(30:20):
Hubert won that battle. James 4, 7. Submit yourselves, therefore,
to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Yes, and Peter chimes right in with another one just like this. 1 Peter 5, 8 and 9.
Be sober-minded, be watchful. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like
a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
(30:40):
Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are
being experienced by your brotherhood
throughout the world. So what is the priority in resisting Satan?
How do we resist Satan? Do we just will it to be done? Do we psych ourselves up?
What do we do? Using the Word of God. This is the first one.
This is the top priority.
(31:01):
Using the Word of God and using it rightly because Satan has misused it from the beginning.
Remember Genesis 3-1, his little conversation with Eve?
Yea, hath God said, you cannot eat from any of these trees. Keep in mind,
this is not a debate with Eve. This is important.
For in a debate, there's two opponents. They face each other,
(31:22):
knowing they are in opposition to each other.
Eve is clueless that the serpent is her opponent. In fact, she thinks he's there to help her.
The better debate scene is Satan debating with the Lord over the righteousness
of Job, if you remember that.
So this is what Satan wants, that his opponent will lose the debate and follow
(31:44):
it up with a disastrous action of some kind.
So, let's consider that. Jesus knows Satan is his opponent as surely as Satan knows Jesus is his.
Jesus debated Satan in the wilderness after 40 days of intense spiritual warfare and fasting.
And so, he knew indeed Satan was his opponent, unlike Eve or unlike Adam.
(32:08):
Listen to how this began. Mark 1, 12 and 13.
The Spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness, and he was in the
wilderness 40 days being tempted by Satan.
And he was with the wild animals and the angels were ministering to him.
He was in the wilderness 40 days being tempted. So the temptation spanned 40 days.
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The three that we're all familiar with were the climax of this 40 days of debate.
That's not like the one we just talked about in the early 1800s.
Yeah, 912 pages. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.
And would it not be interesting to hear the preliminaries of that debate?
Yeah. We got the highlights. We got the highlight. Yeah, the finality.
(32:50):
So let's take a look then at those last three, one at a time.
Matthew 4, first four verses.
Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.
And the tempter came and said to him, If you are the Son of God,
command these stones to become loaves of bread. But he answered,
(33:12):
It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.
Note that led by the Spirit and Luke's filled with the Spirit.
How do we know if we're being filled or led in this matter?
Remember what James and Peter, what they said, you got to submit to God and resist.
We don't fight temptation alone. We submit to God. We start with God, not with our opponent.
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And that also means we start with his word. simply submit and
pray for that word that suits your situation don't pray
for wisdom other than the wisdom of the word for that particular debate
that you're having with satan where the word of god you need please note jesus
did not philosophize or he didn't use vocabulary out of satan's range they both
(33:58):
use the same playbook the bible and he's familiar with it jesus obviously and but so So was Satan.
So that being the case, let's take a look at what's going on here. Jesus is truly hungry.
One of the great understatements in the Bible after 40 days.
Satan begins the debate with the assertion that being the son of God,
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and of course, translations says, you know, if you are, but that carries really
the sense of, since you're the son of God, why aren't you doing this?
Okay, that's the challenge. You can turn this stone into bread.
So it's a formality would be affirmed, resolved.
Why hunger? you're the son of God. And then of course, Jesus,
the reputation resolved, I'll eat when God tells me to eat.
(34:42):
I think that's great, which how many parents are getting their,
raising their kids up would love to say, eat when I tell you to eat.
And so he quotes Deuteronomy and all three of these he's quoting from the book of Deuteronomy.
In other words, when we are vulnerable, Satan attacks and his solution will
meet his needs, not ours, if we carry it out.
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So as Peter and James namesake. Jesus was always first submitted to God and
no one else, and that brings clarity to hear the word we need.
Jesus knows God will provide. He waits on his word, not Satan's.
Well, Satan then says, basically, oh, since you're quoting the Bible,
let's stick with the Bible, the playbook.
(35:22):
Affirmed. Since the Bible has entered the debate, sounds like a good lawyer,
right? You first raised this question, so yeah.
Since you brought it up. Since you brought it up, yeah.
A quote from Psalm 91, for I know you, Jesus, want to be recognized.
Well, there is truth in that. He does want to be known as the Messiah.
I mean, that's going to come to the fore.
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So, let's look at this, how it rolls out in the debate, Matthew 4, verses 5 and 6.
Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the
temple and said to him, if you are the son of God,
throw yourself down, for it's written, he will command his angels concerning
you, and on their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.
(36:05):
Satan appears to Jesus' pride, the desire to be acknowledged as something terrific,
and who hasn't had that temptation?
I want to be recognized as a great athlete. I want to be recognized as a great
speaker. I want to be recognized as a great funny guy.
I want to be recognized as the guy who does the good works, and it goes on and on and on.
(36:26):
So, what is Jesus' Genesis's response to refutation, since you're now quoting
the Bible, let's continue to do that since you brought it up.
The Bible has something to say about quoting out of context, Matthew 4, 7.
Jesus said to him, again, it is written, you shall not put the Lord your God to the test.
Right. Again, from the book of Deuteronomy.
(36:47):
Well, then Satan has one final word here.
Affirmed. I know you want glory. Well, he does.
What does he say in John 17? Father, to give me the glory I had with you before the world began.
How does Jesus respond in this part of the debate? Matthew 4, verses 8 and 9.
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms
(37:09):
of the world and their glory.
And he said to him, All these I will give you if you will fall down and worship me. Right.
If you want to be a ruler, a leader, a tyrant, an emperor, a Caesar,
a president, a prime minister, this is what I will give you. I know you want it.
I know, as Michael Lindell says, I know you want it. That's right.
(37:31):
Jesus' refutation.
Basically says, you brought the Bible into this, so here's what the Bible says, Matthew 4, 10-11.
Then Jesus said to him, Be gone, Satan, for it's written, You shall worship
the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.
Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came, and were ministering to him.
(37:52):
Ministering to him. Three times he quotes from Deuteronomy.
Never let anyone tell you the Old Testament is irrelevant, or that it's just history.
Deuteronomy is full of history, but it's the history we need to know,
and Jesus knew it and used it in this debate.
And there will come that time to end the debate. And if we're paying attention,
(38:13):
that will be the time when it becomes clear that our opponent isn't about getting
at the truth, but getting us to embrace the lie.
That's why Jesus says, be gone, Satan. It's time to end the debate.
It's clear what Satan wants, and it's not a legitimate debate.
He wants Jesus to capitulate to his desires.
(38:36):
And so, when it's clear that our opponent isn't about getting at the truth,
but getting us to embrace the lie, timed in the debate.
And when we end it, we will know we've won, because the ministering refreshments
that will come from the Lord will be upon us as surely as they were Jesus, and we will rejoice.
(38:56):
And that's the Christian expectation about debates.
Well, and as the debate ends, so does our podcast. We hope that you've enjoyed it today.
We hope that you've gotten the answers about what the nature of God's wisdom
is and how it contrasts with human debating and how God responds to our own
suffering and questioning about it to Him.
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And if you have any other questions or comments, feel free to post those in
the comment section of the podcast where you're listening from now.
And if you have questions more private, please send them to eventsandexpectations at gmail.com.
That's the word events, the word and, and the word expectations at gmail.com.
We will always answer you.
(39:40):
This has been Current Events and Christian Expectations. And until next time, keep looking up.
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