November 26, 2025 • 18 mins
Hosts Ciaran O'Brien and Peter O'Malley unpack how to choose a property manager who genuinely protects your asset — not one who disappears after signing the agreement. From understanding the difference between a BDM and a true property manager to spotting red flags and compliance traps, this episode lays out clear, practical steps for landlords.
We also discuss:
- Why you should always meet the person who will actually manage your property
- The difference between sales-oriented BDMs and day-to-day property managers
- Warning signs of a “tenant’s champion” mindset that undermines owners
- How to assess arrears processes, performance metrics, and communication standards
- What to ask when checking references from current landlords
- Protecting your own home when leasing it out for the first time
- Understanding fair wear and tear versus property damage
- Common compliance pitfalls and the impact of new legislation
- How AI-driven enforcement is changing property management
- Why service fees should go toward management quality, not cold lead generation
As always if there is a specific topic you would like for us to cover, please reach out and let us know!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
Hello and welcome to another edition of Current
Market Insights.
I'm your host, Kieran O'Brien,and with me is Mr.
Peter O'Malley.
Peter, hello.
Kieran, great to see you.
Always great to see you, myfriend.
I want to talk about a topictoday that we haven't done on
the podcast, which is prettyrare because we really have
spoken about a lot of things inthe time that we've been doing
this.
(00:50):
But recently I've been hecklingand hassling you over uh whether
or not investors are coming tothe Sydney property market.
And I thought it might be areally good idea today just to
talk about what is involved ifyou are an investor or you've
just purchased your firstinvestment property or you're
thinking about it, what isinvolved in selecting the right
(01:10):
person to manage that propertyfor you?
We've done something similar insales, uh, but I suspect that
it's just as important to makesure you get the right person
for your investment as well.
SPEAKER_02 (01:20):
Well, look, what I'd say first and foremost, Kieran,
is when you're employing asalesperson to list and sell
your home, in 80% of cases, um,the person who's presenting for
the listing is the personthat'll manage the sales
campaign.
Yep.
So the person you sign with isthe person that you can hold to
account on service delivery.
(01:40):
And in fairness, it's not a verylong relationship relative to
what a property manager is allabout.
What's really common in the realestate industry is uh what they
call a BDM, a businessdevelopment manager, whose goal
it is to go around and sign upnew rental leads.
Now, that person makes a lot ofpromises, um, but is not
(02:01):
necessarily around, he'sactually highly unlikely to be
around to deliver on thosebecause the business development
manager is completely differentto the property manager.
Yep.
Now, a business developmentmanager is as close to a real
estate salesperson that you'relikely to see in the management
side of the industry, where aproperty manager is not
(02:23):
necessarily the big personalityof a salesperson.
Um, they've got more of aconscientious, uh, detailed,
diligent personality.
But when you meet them, um,relative to putting them up
against the salesperson, theycould seem un underwhelming.
Yeah.
But their service delivery isexcellent and consistent over a
(02:46):
long period of time.
So I think investors get thisone wrong, is what I'm saying in
a roundabout way, is a lot ofinvestors go with the big
personality that presents fortheir for their rental listing,
but that person quickly moves onwith a commission check in the
pocket, hunting the next rentallisting opportunity, and then
the client is passed on to aproperty manager whom they may
(03:11):
or may not be in sync with, theymay or may not be happy being
under their uh guidance, butthey're now stuck with them, at
least for the period of thetermination of the agency
agreement, if they becomedesperately unhappy and want to
move.
So, point number one inselecting the right property
manager is establish who theproperty manager is, and you're
(03:34):
not selling your house, soyou're not actually hunting a
salesperson.
Yeah, you're hunting a propertymanager.
SPEAKER_01 (03:41):
Yeah, you're looking for someone who's methodical.
And I'll get you to talk aboutthe key skills involved in a
good property manager.
You've known plenty over theyears.
Uh, but the first question is ifI invest in property and I go to
an agency and decide um that Iwant to get a property manager
for it, how much control do Iactually have as the client over
who is going to manage myproperty within that agency,
(04:04):
business group, team, whateverit may be?
Can I interview them and decideon a person I really like?
SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
Well, the most power you'll ever have dealing with a
real estate agent and a realestate agency is before you
sign.
Yeah.
So the time to ask all the hardquestions and satisfy oneself as
to what you're going into assuch is before you sign.
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So practically though, withinyour agency, do you give your
clients the ability to choosetheir property manager from
within your team of managers?
Or do you sort of work on apremise of we all have we have
great people all over thebusiness?
Therefore, when you come onboard, you get the the team.
SPEAKER_02 (04:43):
Oh, there's there's personalities and you and you do
you do try to matchpersonalities with the property
manager.
So I wouldn't say that every Iwouldn't even attempt to say
that every property manager'sgot the same personality.
I'm just saying that some of thecharacteristics that make a good
property manager uh are are atodds with what a good
salesperson is.
Yeah.
Um, and that's what um ainvestor should be looking for
(05:06):
is what are the goodcharacteristics in a property
manager?
And I want to go with thatperson.
So um you're not necessarilylooking for a best friend, but
you are looking forprofessionalism, yeah, your
punctuality, uh, someone who's awho's across their brief, and
you can have a good workingrelationship with them.
SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
So you're looking for those key skills, someone
who's an advocate for yourproperty, your, you know, your
kind of investment with thefirm, you're looking for someone
who's efficient.
As we've talked about in thesales space before, what are
some metrics or measurables thata potential client could use to
say that this particularproperty manager is a good
investment for them?
SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
Look, I'll tell you what drives landlords mad with
their property manager more thananything, after a salesperson
who makes all these promises andthen moves on and doesn't have
to deliver on them.
Their next stress point fromthere, Kieran, is what we call a
tenant's champion.
Right.
And that is a property managerwho's being paid by the
(06:08):
landlord, but is constantlytelling the landlord what the
tenant's rights are, and um uhyou know, taking the tenant's
side in any 50-50 equation.
Now, there's no doubt that therules and the regulations have
swung firmly in favor of thetenants in recent times, but a
(06:29):
well-managed property by askilled property manager can
help a landlord tiptoe throughall of that regulation to still
get the landlord the outcomesthat they're looking for.
But the agent needs to beeffective in communicating and
working with their landlord.
And too often I've seen fromproperty managers, no matter
(06:52):
what goes on, the don't ask mewhy, the agent, the property
manager, sides with the tenant.
Okay, and it's usually becausethe tenant is in the agent's
ear, not necessarily morecorrectly um positioned on the
issue at hand, but they're inthe agent's ear more
emphatically, and the agent'sjust finding it easier to get
(07:13):
the landlord to spend money touh concede on on the request
just to keep the relationshipworking.
Now, that's hard for somelandlords to accept because
they're negatively geared.
Now, everyone talks about thetax break that one gets with
negative gearing, but what youdon't see is that they've got to
prop this property up on aweekly basis to make it viable
(07:35):
and meet their obligations.
And if they've got a propertymanager that's pushing,
constantly pushing expense andissues onto them because the
property manager won't hold thetenant to account where required
and where needed, it makes for avery unpalatable relationship.
SPEAKER_01 (07:52):
If I'm a potential client, so some really good
points, but if I'm a potentialclient, is there any?
I mean, how can I go aboutfinding out what kind of
character the property manageris?
You know, you've we've talkedabout in sales before, you could
potentially ask for previousclients that you could contact,
people that you could talk to.
Does the same exist within theproperty management space where
(08:13):
I could go to an agency, say,look, I'm interested in what
your firm offers.
I'd love some details, uh, butthen I'd also like to speak to
some clients to get a sense ofwhat it's like to work with.
SPEAKER_02 (08:23):
I think at a minimum you need to meet the agent that
you'll be working with becausethe relationship will be
primarily email and phone.
Yep.
Yeah.
But it's so much easier ifyou've met the agent from a
landlord's perspective.
So you know who's emailing you,you know who you're talking to
when issues arise.
(08:43):
Because the greater the trustyou have in the property
manager's integrity uh and andtheir ability to do the job, the
more readily you'll accept theirrecommendations, even if you
don't quite like them.
Yeah.
Um, so yes, you should meet yourproperty manager before signing,
not necessarily just thesalesperson that's you know been
(09:03):
employed by the company to signup new managements to to grow
the rental book, if you like.
Yeah, and the point you makethere about meeting previous um
uh clients or existing clientsof that property manager,
absolutely.
The best property managers inthe industry will have no issues
with doing that.
They'll gladly put their uhtheir existing clients across as
a uh referee.
(09:24):
Yeah, and so they should, right?
You should be proud of yourachievements.
Can I say this on that point,Kieran, that we don't hire a BDM
at Harris Partners.
I the salary I save in a BDM Iput into service delivery of the
rent role.
And the team grow the rent rolethrough rent referrals from
existing clients rather thanhaving a BDM bringing in coal
(09:47):
business.
And then when the business comesin, we're undermand to be able
to handle that new businessbecause we've got to manage our
costs and we're carrying a BDM,if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (09:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, I mean, there's no betterreflection of a business's
culture and success than word ofmouth referral bringing
consistent business, right?
SPEAKER_02 (10:05):
We we just find um that the the business that our
existing clients bring us is ofa much higher quality than if we
do go and hire a BDM um to goout and hunt business cold, and
those people don't understandthe culture of the business and
the way the business operates,and we're short-staffed
internally.
So we have tried a BDM, butwe've gone for no BDM, saved the
(10:27):
money and put that back intoservice delivery of the existing
clients who then become themouthpiece for the organization.
SPEAKER_01 (10:34):
Which again, yeah, great reflection of the business
itself.
If uh if I was a potentialclient and I did speak to a
property manager and I wanted toget some insight, or I spoke to
different clients, if you had togive three examples of things
that I could ask about to get agenuine sense of what that
property manager's like, do youhave any thoughts on what kind
of things I could look for?
SPEAKER_02 (10:53):
Yeah, look, focus on um their communication skills.
Um, how are they going withtheir rental arrears?
Um, do they let arrears run up?
I think you need some sensethere of uh their processes for
making sure that the uh the rentis paid on time as it should be.
And um ask to see uh what theircondition reports or their
(11:14):
reporting facilities are foryour property um whilst that's
whilst it's listed with them andunder you know under their
control.
Um there's another segment oflandlord that does come into the
market um regularly, regardlessof what broader trends are,
Kieran.
And that that is owner occupierswho are going interstate,
(11:35):
overseas, um to the regions fora period of time, and they're
renting their home out, if youlike, for a year or two.
Yep.
Now it's really, reallyimportant.
They're not a classic investor.
Um, they're not a classicinvestor who will be on the rent
roll for years to come.
(11:56):
But you can imagine if you dorent your home out and you come
back and it's been trashed, whata disastrous situation that'd
be.
So in those instances, landlordsthere don't only want the
highest price for the rentalreturn, they want someone that's
going to give their propertyback in the same condition they
took it on in.
SPEAKER_01 (12:15):
Yeah, it's uh well, I think too, from a from a
business perspective, right?
You would want to make sure thatall of your clients, regardless
of their tenure, are serviced ina way, as you say, you spend on
service delivery, so they feelvalued, they feel supported.
Um, I I remember you uhexplaining once before that a
good offline that a goodproperty manager is someone
who's vigilant about thecondition of the property, but
(12:38):
also the experience of both thelandlord and the tenant, someone
who can be balanced on thisissue is important.
SPEAKER_02 (12:43):
Um, where ten where landlords fall down with his
fair wear and tear, this is notin the same condition that I
gave it to the tenant in.
Well, there's not an obligationfor for the tenant to hand it
back to you in the samecondition you gave it to them,
um, because it's the propertysubject to fair wear and tear.
Yeah.
Um, so it's never going to bethe same property that you hand
(13:05):
it over.
Um, but is it worse?
Has it deteriorated by more thanfair wear and tear?
That's the question as alandlord, you need to be asking
yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (13:15):
And I think it's a prime example of why you should
hire a professional to manage itfor you.
Someone who knows what thereasonable expectation is,
someone who can look after itand has a track record of doing
that, uh, and someone whoseintention really is to make sure
that you leave the transactionfeeling like you've been
supported and valued.
SPEAKER_02 (13:32):
And and what I would say, it's it's those landlords
that are renting out theirprimary residence to take a job
transfer or a sabbatical orwhatever it is that they're
doing, but they plan on comingback to make that their primary
residence.
And they're the ones that tendto be most emotional about the
state of the property becausethey knew what their home was
and they come back and it's beena tenant of property for two,
(13:53):
three years, and it's bumpedaround and it's knocked around a
bit, and it's not the sameproperty that they left behind.
But at the end of the day, thetenant doesn't have to um make
good on fair wear and tear.
It is just fair wear and tear,and it's up to the vet it's up
to the landlord to keep theproperty um condition up kept,
not the tenant.
SPEAKER_01 (14:12):
Yeah.
No, certainly, and it can be I'msure it can be much harder.
Those people are far moreemotional than the you know
business transaction investor.
My final question for you then,Peter.
One of the things that uh Ilearned in my time in real
estate, and you know, youconstantly are doing as an
active agent is ensuring thatyou are upskilled across
legislation.
There's so much going on acrossthe industry, uh, which is good
(14:34):
to make sure that people arecompliant and doing the right
thing.
Property management has, as yousay, like it's an evolving
landscape with tenants' rightsincreasing, the government
active in that space.
Um, do you think it's reasonablefor an investor to expect that
their property manager is goingto be up to date, current, you
know, doing all their training?
And would it be reasonable toexpect that that is occurring
(14:56):
across the industry to make surethey're compliant with any
legislation and changes?
SPEAKER_02 (15:00):
I look, I can't speak for what the quality or
landlord experience is acrossthe industry.
Um, because rent roles um areshrinking naturally by way of
landlords selling out, and asthose investment properties
sell, they're selling to owneroccupiers.
I think any real estateprincipal would be mad to ensure
(15:21):
that there's not some uhstandard being upheld in their
own businesses, uh, that's forsure.
Yep.
Um so, in terms of the agentbeing across the legislation to
give you an idea of what goes onin this world, um our marketing
manager uploaded a rental adabout two months ago, and it was
just relaunching the same ad forthis property that we used two
(15:44):
years ago.
Yep.
But in the text were the wordsno pets.
Yep.
And the Department of Fair Traderang me and said, that's against
legislation.
You can't say that now.
You can't say that now.
Friendly warning, um, but butbig brother big data's watching.
Yeah.
And this is the level ofsophistication that the um, you
(16:05):
know, the state government aregoing to to police some of these
laws.
So as a real estate agent um whoowns someone who owns a real
estate agency, if you if youdon't have your team up to date
on legislation, you'll have farbigger problems than than them
not being up to legislation in avery short time frame, that's
for sure.
I was uh I don't know why, I wasgobsmacked that that that sort
(16:26):
of uh level of detailing wasthere, but it just goes to show
you technology and data.
And um, you know, on a differentpoint, completely unrelated.
The government are uh, you know,monitoring um the property
market from an underquotingperspective with the same
technology.
They know who's underquoting.
Yeah, it's just a matter of howthey're gonna deal with it from
here.
SPEAKER_01 (16:47):
Well, we've talked a lot about the use of AI in just
the the workspace in general,and I think this is a great
example of where a fullyautonomous uh system that can
operate 24-7, control the data,can look for anomalies, can look
for keywords that aren't, youknow, don't fit the legislation
like no pets, and immediatelyprovide a report back to the
regulators.
SPEAKER_02 (17:06):
Yeah, that's right.
And the regulator was fine.
I said, look, it's just an oldad that's you know just been
relaunched and we didn't evenknow the words were buried in
there.
It's not as though someone, youknow, typed the words this week
and then put it out there.
And she said, I understand, lotsof agents have been caught the
same way.
Remove it, I'll send you anofficial warning to put you on
the record, but all good.
And then I just said to themarketing manager, never launch
(17:27):
any property ever again with thewords no pets.
SPEAKER_01 (17:30):
Yeah, fair enough too.
SPEAKER_02 (17:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
Look, uh, interesting topic today, Peter.
Hopefully our listeners havefound some value in there.
Uh, and any potential or currentinvestors can use this uh as a
bit of an uh opportunity to juststop.
And if they haven't investedyet, think about what's
involved.
But if they currently have aproperty manager, think about
whether they are getting thebest value for their time and
their money uh for someone whoreally is looking after their
(17:53):
most important asset.
So I appreciate you uh coming inand talking about it today.
Thanks, Kieran, all the best.
All the best, and thanks toeveryone for listening to
Current Market Insights.
We look forward to speaking withyou next time.
SPEAKER_00 (18:03):
Thanks for joining us on the current market
insights, pop comes up to you.
Hello and welcome to another edition of Current
Market Insights.
I'm your host, Kieran O'Brien,and with me is Mr.
Peter O'Malley.
Peter, hello.
Kieran, great to see you.
Always great to see you, myfriend.
I want to talk about a topictoday that we haven't done on
the podcast, which is prettyrare because we really have
spoken about a lot of things inthe time that we've been doing
this.
(00:50):
But recently I've been hecklingand hassling you over uh whether
or not investors are coming tothe Sydney property market.
And I thought it might be areally good idea today just to
talk about what is involved ifyou are an investor or you've
just purchased your firstinvestment property or you're
thinking about it, what isinvolved in selecting the right
(01:10):
person to manage that propertyfor you?
We've done something similar insales, uh, but I suspect that
it's just as important to makesure you get the right person
for your investment as well.
SPEAKER_02 (01:20):
Well, look, what I'd say first and foremost, Kieran,
is when you're employing asalesperson to list and sell
your home, in 80% of cases, um,the person who's presenting for
the listing is the personthat'll manage the sales
campaign.
Yep.
So the person you sign with isthe person that you can hold to
account on service delivery.
(01:40):
And in fairness, it's not a verylong relationship relative to
what a property manager is allabout.
What's really common in the realestate industry is uh what they
call a BDM, a businessdevelopment manager, whose goal
it is to go around and sign upnew rental leads.
Now, that person makes a lot ofpromises, um, but is not
(02:01):
necessarily around, he'sactually highly unlikely to be
around to deliver on thosebecause the business development
manager is completely differentto the property manager.
Yep.
Now, a business developmentmanager is as close to a real
estate salesperson that you'relikely to see in the management
side of the industry, where aproperty manager is not
(02:23):
necessarily the big personalityof a salesperson.
Um, they've got more of aconscientious, uh, detailed,
diligent personality.
But when you meet them, um,relative to putting them up
against the salesperson, theycould seem un underwhelming.
Yeah.
But their service delivery isexcellent and consistent over a
(02:46):
long period of time.
So I think investors get thisone wrong, is what I'm saying in
a roundabout way, is a lot ofinvestors go with the big
personality that presents fortheir for their rental listing,
but that person quickly moves onwith a commission check in the
pocket, hunting the next rentallisting opportunity, and then
the client is passed on to aproperty manager whom they may
(03:11):
or may not be in sync with, theymay or may not be happy being
under their uh guidance, butthey're now stuck with them, at
least for the period of thetermination of the agency
agreement, if they becomedesperately unhappy and want to
move.
So, point number one inselecting the right property
manager is establish who theproperty manager is, and you're
(03:34):
not selling your house, soyou're not actually hunting a
salesperson.
Yeah, you're hunting a propertymanager.
SPEAKER_01 (03:41):
Yeah, you're looking for someone who's methodical.
And I'll get you to talk aboutthe key skills involved in a
good property manager.
You've known plenty over theyears.
Uh, but the first question is ifI invest in property and I go to
an agency and decide um that Iwant to get a property manager
for it, how much control do Iactually have as the client over
who is going to manage myproperty within that agency,
(04:04):
business group, team, whateverit may be?
Can I interview them and decideon a person I really like?
SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
Well, the most power you'll ever have dealing with a
real estate agent and a realestate agency is before you
sign.
Yeah.
So the time to ask all the hardquestions and satisfy oneself as
to what you're going into assuch is before you sign.
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So practically though, withinyour agency, do you give your
clients the ability to choosetheir property manager from
within your team of managers?
Or do you sort of work on apremise of we all have we have
great people all over thebusiness?
Therefore, when you come onboard, you get the the team.
SPEAKER_02 (04:43):
Oh, there's there's personalities and you and you do
you do try to matchpersonalities with the property
manager.
So I wouldn't say that every Iwouldn't even attempt to say
that every property manager'sgot the same personality.
I'm just saying that some of thecharacteristics that make a good
property manager uh are are atodds with what a good
salesperson is.
Yeah.
Um, and that's what um ainvestor should be looking for
(05:06):
is what are the goodcharacteristics in a property
manager?
And I want to go with thatperson.
So um you're not necessarilylooking for a best friend, but
you are looking forprofessionalism, yeah, your
punctuality, uh, someone who's awho's across their brief, and
you can have a good workingrelationship with them.
SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
So you're looking for those key skills, someone
who's an advocate for yourproperty, your, you know, your
kind of investment with thefirm, you're looking for someone
who's efficient.
As we've talked about in thesales space before, what are
some metrics or measurables thata potential client could use to
say that this particularproperty manager is a good
investment for them?
SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
Look, I'll tell you what drives landlords mad with
their property manager more thananything, after a salesperson
who makes all these promises andthen moves on and doesn't have
to deliver on them.
Their next stress point fromthere, Kieran, is what we call a
tenant's champion.
Right.
And that is a property managerwho's being paid by the
(06:08):
landlord, but is constantlytelling the landlord what the
tenant's rights are, and um uhyou know, taking the tenant's
side in any 50-50 equation.
Now, there's no doubt that therules and the regulations have
swung firmly in favor of thetenants in recent times, but a
(06:29):
well-managed property by askilled property manager can
help a landlord tiptoe throughall of that regulation to still
get the landlord the outcomesthat they're looking for.
But the agent needs to beeffective in communicating and
working with their landlord.
And too often I've seen fromproperty managers, no matter
(06:52):
what goes on, the don't ask mewhy, the agent, the property
manager, sides with the tenant.
Okay, and it's usually becausethe tenant is in the agent's
ear, not necessarily morecorrectly um positioned on the
issue at hand, but they're inthe agent's ear more
emphatically, and the agent'sjust finding it easier to get
(07:13):
the landlord to spend money touh concede on on the request
just to keep the relationshipworking.
Now, that's hard for somelandlords to accept because
they're negatively geared.
Now, everyone talks about thetax break that one gets with
negative gearing, but what youdon't see is that they've got to
prop this property up on aweekly basis to make it viable
(07:35):
and meet their obligations.
And if they've got a propertymanager that's pushing,
constantly pushing expense andissues onto them because the
property manager won't hold thetenant to account where required
and where needed, it makes for avery unpalatable relationship.
SPEAKER_01 (07:52):
If I'm a potential client, so some really good
points, but if I'm a potentialclient, is there any?
I mean, how can I go aboutfinding out what kind of
character the property manageris?
You know, you've we've talkedabout in sales before, you could
potentially ask for previousclients that you could contact,
people that you could talk to.
Does the same exist within theproperty management space where
(08:13):
I could go to an agency, say,look, I'm interested in what
your firm offers.
I'd love some details, uh, butthen I'd also like to speak to
some clients to get a sense ofwhat it's like to work with.
SPEAKER_02 (08:23):
I think at a minimum you need to meet the agent that
you'll be working with becausethe relationship will be
primarily email and phone.
Yep.
Yeah.
But it's so much easier ifyou've met the agent from a
landlord's perspective.
So you know who's emailing you,you know who you're talking to
when issues arise.
(08:43):
Because the greater the trustyou have in the property
manager's integrity uh and andtheir ability to do the job, the
more readily you'll accept theirrecommendations, even if you
don't quite like them.
Yeah.
Um, so yes, you should meet yourproperty manager before signing,
not necessarily just thesalesperson that's you know been
(09:03):
employed by the company to signup new managements to to grow
the rental book, if you like.
Yeah, and the point you makethere about meeting previous um
uh clients or existing clientsof that property manager,
absolutely.
The best property managers inthe industry will have no issues
with doing that.
They'll gladly put their uhtheir existing clients across as
a uh referee.
(09:24):
Yeah, and so they should, right?
You should be proud of yourachievements.
Can I say this on that point,Kieran, that we don't hire a BDM
at Harris Partners.
I the salary I save in a BDM Iput into service delivery of the
rent role.
And the team grow the rent rolethrough rent referrals from
existing clients rather thanhaving a BDM bringing in coal
(09:47):
business.
And then when the business comesin, we're undermand to be able
to handle that new businessbecause we've got to manage our
costs and we're carrying a BDM,if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (09:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, I mean, there's no betterreflection of a business's
culture and success than word ofmouth referral bringing
consistent business, right?
SPEAKER_02 (10:05):
We we just find um that the the business that our
existing clients bring us is ofa much higher quality than if we
do go and hire a BDM um to goout and hunt business cold, and
those people don't understandthe culture of the business and
the way the business operates,and we're short-staffed
internally.
So we have tried a BDM, butwe've gone for no BDM, saved the
(10:27):
money and put that back intoservice delivery of the existing
clients who then become themouthpiece for the organization.
SPEAKER_01 (10:34):
Which again, yeah, great reflection of the business
itself.
If uh if I was a potentialclient and I did speak to a
property manager and I wanted toget some insight, or I spoke to
different clients, if you had togive three examples of things
that I could ask about to get agenuine sense of what that
property manager's like, do youhave any thoughts on what kind
of things I could look for?
SPEAKER_02 (10:53):
Yeah, look, focus on um their communication skills.
Um, how are they going withtheir rental arrears?
Um, do they let arrears run up?
I think you need some sensethere of uh their processes for
making sure that the uh the rentis paid on time as it should be.
And um ask to see uh what theircondition reports or their
(11:14):
reporting facilities are foryour property um whilst that's
whilst it's listed with them andunder you know under their
control.
Um there's another segment oflandlord that does come into the
market um regularly, regardlessof what broader trends are,
Kieran.
And that that is owner occupierswho are going interstate,
(11:35):
overseas, um to the regions fora period of time, and they're
renting their home out, if youlike, for a year or two.
Yep.
Now it's really, reallyimportant.
They're not a classic investor.
Um, they're not a classicinvestor who will be on the rent
roll for years to come.
(11:56):
But you can imagine if you dorent your home out and you come
back and it's been trashed, whata disastrous situation that'd
be.
So in those instances, landlordsthere don't only want the
highest price for the rentalreturn, they want someone that's
going to give their propertyback in the same condition they
took it on in.
SPEAKER_01 (12:15):
Yeah, it's uh well, I think too, from a from a
business perspective, right?
You would want to make sure thatall of your clients, regardless
of their tenure, are serviced ina way, as you say, you spend on
service delivery, so they feelvalued, they feel supported.
Um, I I remember you uhexplaining once before that a
good offline that a goodproperty manager is someone
who's vigilant about thecondition of the property, but
(12:38):
also the experience of both thelandlord and the tenant, someone
who can be balanced on thisissue is important.
SPEAKER_02 (12:43):
Um, where ten where landlords fall down with his
fair wear and tear, this is notin the same condition that I
gave it to the tenant in.
Well, there's not an obligationfor for the tenant to hand it
back to you in the samecondition you gave it to them,
um, because it's the propertysubject to fair wear and tear.
Yeah.
Um, so it's never going to bethe same property that you hand
(13:05):
it over.
Um, but is it worse?
Has it deteriorated by more thanfair wear and tear?
That's the question as alandlord, you need to be asking
yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (13:15):
And I think it's a prime example of why you should
hire a professional to manage itfor you.
Someone who knows what thereasonable expectation is,
someone who can look after itand has a track record of doing
that, uh, and someone whoseintention really is to make sure
that you leave the transactionfeeling like you've been
supported and valued.
SPEAKER_02 (13:32):
And and what I would say, it's it's those landlords
that are renting out theirprimary residence to take a job
transfer or a sabbatical orwhatever it is that they're
doing, but they plan on comingback to make that their primary
residence.
And they're the ones that tendto be most emotional about the
state of the property becausethey knew what their home was
and they come back and it's beena tenant of property for two,
(13:53):
three years, and it's bumpedaround and it's knocked around a
bit, and it's not the sameproperty that they left behind.
But at the end of the day, thetenant doesn't have to um make
good on fair wear and tear.
It is just fair wear and tear,and it's up to the vet it's up
to the landlord to keep theproperty um condition up kept,
not the tenant.
SPEAKER_01 (14:12):
Yeah.
No, certainly, and it can be I'msure it can be much harder.
Those people are far moreemotional than the you know
business transaction investor.
My final question for you then,Peter.
One of the things that uh Ilearned in my time in real
estate, and you know, youconstantly are doing as an
active agent is ensuring thatyou are upskilled across
legislation.
There's so much going on acrossthe industry, uh, which is good
(14:34):
to make sure that people arecompliant and doing the right
thing.
Property management has, as yousay, like it's an evolving
landscape with tenants' rightsincreasing, the government
active in that space.
Um, do you think it's reasonablefor an investor to expect that
their property manager is goingto be up to date, current, you
know, doing all their training?
And would it be reasonable toexpect that that is occurring
(14:56):
across the industry to make surethey're compliant with any
legislation and changes?
SPEAKER_02 (15:00):
I look, I can't speak for what the quality or
landlord experience is acrossthe industry.
Um, because rent roles um areshrinking naturally by way of
landlords selling out, and asthose investment properties
sell, they're selling to owneroccupiers.
I think any real estateprincipal would be mad to ensure
(15:21):
that there's not some uhstandard being upheld in their
own businesses, uh, that's forsure.
Yep.
Um so, in terms of the agentbeing across the legislation to
give you an idea of what goes onin this world, um our marketing
manager uploaded a rental adabout two months ago, and it was
just relaunching the same ad forthis property that we used two
(15:44):
years ago.
Yep.
But in the text were the wordsno pets.
Yep.
And the Department of Fair Traderang me and said, that's against
legislation.
You can't say that now.
You can't say that now.
Friendly warning, um, but butbig brother big data's watching.
Yeah.
And this is the level ofsophistication that the um, you
(16:05):
know, the state government aregoing to to police some of these
laws.
So as a real estate agent um whoowns someone who owns a real
estate agency, if you if youdon't have your team up to date
on legislation, you'll have farbigger problems than than them
not being up to legislation in avery short time frame, that's
for sure.
I was uh I don't know why, I wasgobsmacked that that that sort
(16:26):
of uh level of detailing wasthere, but it just goes to show
you technology and data.
And um, you know, on a differentpoint, completely unrelated.
The government are uh, you know,monitoring um the property
market from an underquotingperspective with the same
technology.
They know who's underquoting.
Yeah, it's just a matter of howthey're gonna deal with it from
here.
SPEAKER_01 (16:47):
Well, we've talked a lot about the use of AI in just
the the workspace in general,and I think this is a great
example of where a fullyautonomous uh system that can
operate 24-7, control the data,can look for anomalies, can look
for keywords that aren't, youknow, don't fit the legislation
like no pets, and immediatelyprovide a report back to the
regulators.
SPEAKER_02 (17:06):
Yeah, that's right.
And the regulator was fine.
I said, look, it's just an oldad that's you know just been
relaunched and we didn't evenknow the words were buried in
there.
It's not as though someone, youknow, typed the words this week
and then put it out there.
And she said, I understand, lotsof agents have been caught the
same way.
Remove it, I'll send you anofficial warning to put you on
the record, but all good.
And then I just said to themarketing manager, never launch
(17:27):
any property ever again with thewords no pets.
SPEAKER_01 (17:30):
Yeah, fair enough too.
SPEAKER_02 (17:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
Look, uh, interesting topic today, Peter.
Hopefully our listeners havefound some value in there.
Uh, and any potential or currentinvestors can use this uh as a
bit of an uh opportunity to juststop.
And if they haven't investedyet, think about what's
involved.
But if they currently have aproperty manager, think about
whether they are getting thebest value for their time and
their money uh for someone whoreally is looking after their
(17:53):
most important asset.
So I appreciate you uh coming inand talking about it today.
Thanks, Kieran, all the best.
All the best, and thanks toeveryone for listening to
Current Market Insights.
We look forward to speaking withyou next time.
SPEAKER_00 (18:03):
Thanks for joining us on the current market
insights, pop comes up to you.
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