May 2, 2025 • 19 mins
Cut The Tie Podcast with Thomas Helfrich
Alan Versteeg, founder of Growth Matters International, shares how agency, conviction, and sales leadership transformed his life and business. In this empowering episode, Alan opens up about going from rock bottom to global contracts, how mindset outpaces skillset, and why professional selling is non-negotiable for any entrepreneur.
About Alan Versteeg:
Alan is the founder of Growth Matters International, a company that develops sales managers into world-class leaders. With a background in engineering and a journey that began with personal struggle, Alan has grown his firm from humble beginnings in South Africa to global partnerships with Adobe, Amazon Web Services, and more. His mission: drive impact through sales.
In this episode, Thomas and Alan discuss:
- Cutting the Tie to Self-Doubt
Alan reveals how stepping into agency—giving himself permission to lead—unlocked the breakthrough that launched his business globally.
- How Sales Management is the Secret Lever
He explains why investing in sales managers is the only way to create scalable, sustainable impact in sales organizations.
- The Power of 10x Thinking
Inspired by the book 10x Is Easier Than 2x, Alan shares how eliminating distractions and focusing deeply changed the trajectory of his business.
- Conviction Creates Confidence
Alan outlines a formula: Clarity → Conviction → Confidence → Agency—and how it helps entrepreneurs show up powerfully and professionally.
Key Takeaways:
- Growth Comes From Elimination
Focus is your greatest multiplier. 10x requires cutting what doesn’t serve your mission. - Agency is Evidence of Conviction
You must choose to believe you’re worthy of success—and act like it. - Sales Training Must Start with Mindset
Competency comes last. Without clarity and conviction, no training sticks. - Selling is Service
If your offer changes lives, it’s your duty to master selling. It’s not sleazy—it’s service. - Build a Business, Not a Job
Sales should serve your life—not dominate it. Structure your business to scale and free your time.
Connect with Alan Versteeg:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alanversteeg
Website: https://www.growthmattersintl.com/
CONNECT WITH THOMAS:
X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/thelfrich | https://twitter.com/nevbeenpromoted Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hovienko | https://www.facebook.com/neverbeenpromoted
Website: https://www.neverbeenpromoted.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/neverbeenpromoted/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@neverbeenpromoted
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomashelfrich/
Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
InstantlyRelevant.com
Serious about LinkedIn Lead Generation? Stop Guessing what to do on LinkedIn and ignite revenue from relevance with Instantly Relevant Lead System
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Cut the Tie podcast.
Hi, I'm your host, thomasHelfrich.
I'm on a mission to help youcut the tie to whatever it is
holding you back from success.
So I want you to become thebest version of yourself, the
best entrepreneur, and todaywe're joined by Alan Versteeg.
I think I said it right.
Yes, did I do it right, alan?
You did it great.
I'm trying to do the SouthAfrican.
I don't know you.
I'm trying to do the SouthAfrican.
(00:22):
I don't know you, just showedme the accent.
Thank you for joining us today.
Do you want to take a momentintroduce yourself, and what do
you do?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, very quickly.
I run a company called GrowthMatters International focused
primarily on sales managementdevelopment.
Started life as an engineer,went into sales, was useless,
figured that out and thenstarted our own business
focusing on developing salesmanagers, because most companies
take the top performingsalesperson, promote them into
sales management and then neverprepare them for their role.
(00:50):
So that's the niche we play in.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
And there is a difference between being a good
salesperson and a manager ofsalespeople.
It's like I'd argue you shouldmake a good salesperson a
manager, because they'recompletely different skill sets.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
There are different mindsets and skill sets and you
can prepare them, but it doesn'thappen automatically.
I always say great hairdressersdon't necessarily run great
salons, great chefs don'tnecessarily run great
restaurants.
So the skill that got youpromoted is the opposite of the
skill you need to succeed.
So that's the niche.
We then go and develop andsupport them in becoming great
sales leaders.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
What's your power statement?
Why do people work with you?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Fundamentally, we drive impact through sales
because your number one lever issales managers.
Without investment in yoursales managers, no amount of
training, no amount ofconsulting, no amount of
technology has any sustainableimpact on your performance.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Give me a success story you guys have had.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Recently becoming the global partner for Adobe.
That's been really successful.
Considering we're two guys outof South Africa, so that's been
a huge success.
We've done some good work withAmazon Web Services.
Some nice impact there.
So really I think the big thingis we've 3.5 times our business
this year on a mission to 10xin three years.
So, yeah, on a good trajectory.
But a lot of it was mindset.
(02:04):
It was realizing we can 10X andread a great book called 10X is
easier than 2X and it is, butit's still challenging.
Scaling has its fears.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
yeah, I already know an answer to one of our rapid
fire questions then.
So I was going to ask if youhad read that.
I'll take one level deeper thatI maybe don't normally go is
how do you find your clients andwho is that client?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Fundamentally, we specifically target
organizations with a largeglobal footprint.
We work with a lot of localcompanies, a lot of global
companies, but we really want todrive that global impact
because that's where you get thetraction.
So our target is are you in aspace where you're managing a
sales team of six to eightpeople or more and you have a
global presence?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Do you guys do content development, direct
outreach or conferences?
I'm just curious how you guysgo find that client.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, content outreach, LinkedIn posts.
But then, the good old, if wehad invented the telephone after
email, we'd all phoning eachother.
So the good old outreach calljust to call someone and say,
hey, let's have a conversationbecause nobody's phoning them
anyway, that's right?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Well, no one picks up anymore.
That's the other piece.
Yeah, Well, apparently they dofor you.
Well, okay, so let's get intoit.
In your own journey of doingthis, you mentioned some things.
You were an engineer, you wentinto sales, had no business
being there, but then you becamesomething.
But you had to get over somethings.
You had to cut a tie, so tospeak.
So what was the tie you had tocut to find success?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
The number one tie I needed to cut and I only
realized after the fact that I'dcut it was agency.
You have to give yourselfpermission to trust that you can
create value.
You can believe you can createvalue, you can know the value of
your product, you can haveconviction, you can have all of
these things.
But if you don't give yourselfpermission, give yourself agency
(03:56):
to go, I am worthy of havingthese conversations and you
don't cut that mindset of oh,but am I, should, I, can, I?
You've got all the skill,you're already in the starting
blocks, but you just haven't hitthe gun because you haven't
given yourself agency.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
That's fantastic.
What was the moment yourealized that you'd cut it?
Or?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
did you realize?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
you needed to and then you realized you had
Because you had a weird approachto that.
It sounds like yeah, and Ididn't realize I had to.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
So what happened was I'd won a large global contract
for a provider or a supplyingpoint in South Africa.
So I had the South Africanlicense.
I won a big internationalcontract.
They then came to me and said,sorry, you can't take on the
whole international contractbecause you're regional.
I said but you's my contract.
It says I can.
And then they went back andforth with me and they went
quiet for about 20 days.
(04:48):
I wasn't sure what happened.
And then on the 1st of Marchthey said oh, by the way, your
contract has expired.
And they took that client awayfrom me and I was obviously
wounded and upset and frustrated.
And about four weeks later thatsame company phoned me and said
are you doing anything in salesmanagement?
And I just started building outa whole blueprint for sales
(05:09):
management.
So I spoke to them and I saidat the end of the call I said
listen here, michaela, who elseare you speaking to?
So she said no, speaking tothis one and this one and this
one.
I said okay, next time you callme, only call me when you're
only speaking to me.
And that was a bold thing tosay at a time that I desperately
needed money to survive, but Iknew the value of what I created
(05:31):
Called me a week later she saysno one's near where you're
playing in this space.
We're only working with you.
And it was that moment Irealized I gave myself
permission to trust what I had.
I gave myself the agency totrust what I had and it had an
immediate effect and exploded usinto an international contract
and my own business as opposedto representing someone else's.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I think that's an incredibly powerful thing and
I'll autobiograph it a littlebit where we have this community
called Cut the Tie and as westart getting the courses we're
at ready and the one-on-onecoaching and the things that
I'll go do to help people workthrough this, the mindset I've
had and I think you're giving methis might be my moment of
agency to trust it is I just ifyou're not serious, don't even,
(06:14):
don't even come Like, if you'renot actually here to get help or
be helped.
You just want to kind of seewhat it is.
Don't kick tires, get in and goall in, and I think that's the
idea is, if you're not, I don'twant you in the group because it
just it's dead weight and it'sso important because, sorry,
carry on no, no, you're me,because I but I like.
It's also like you're trying togrow a group and be friendly and
nice, but the truth is, I wantpeople who are serious yeah, and
(06:37):
the reality is the agency'sevidence of your conviction.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
So I always say we, we don't train competency.
Competency is the last thing.
The first thing you need isclarity of your value
proposition and your clarity ofyour own value.
Then you need conviction that Itrust this and that develops
confidence.
And that bridge betweenconviction and confidence is
agency.
I have so much belief that thisis going to create value that I
can show up in a different waythat say, hey, I know this is
(07:03):
the best stuff you've seenwithout saying it, but the
agency, when you've looked atall the other stuff, give me a
call.
So, yeah, it was a, as I say,the journey.
It sounds romantic, but at thetime I was getting my
electricity cut, I was gettingmy car repossessed.
It wasn't a time I should havebeen so bold, but something
happened in me and, yeah, it seta whole new trajectory for my
(07:24):
life.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Well, since then, what's been the impact of?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
life, family, business, relationships.
Well, massively I meaneffectively I think I earned
that year more than I'd earnedas an entrepreneur in the seven
years prior working as alicensee for someone.
I could create a great familyhome.
It was a different lifestyle.
We say sales is theworst-paying lazy job and the
best-paying hard-working job andwhen you crack through
something like that, it changeseverything.
(07:53):
It doesn't mean everything wasperfect.
Seven years later I wentthrough a divorce.
I did not handle that well,went through a very trying time,
internally caught up inrumination, and it was tough.
But I'd built a business and Icould always come back to that
passion and that's been mypartner all my life since then.
(08:14):
This is the thing that I canhave and do and build and have
impact in other people's lives.
And the other big thing isreach.
I mean I've been to 17countries.
In COVID we train people in 49countries.
I get to meet people and impactpeople and I'm a social guy.
It's as if the universe shinedon me.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
It's amazing, one could argue.
The opportunity met you whereyou were and you saw the light,
so to speak, to get it.
Now some people miss it, somepeople just get bitter and don't
try anything new.
I think a good lesson here, too, is you tried something new
without knowing you were youwere doing it.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Well, a hundred percent, I think it was.
I would love to tell everyoneas well, plan thought out.
I'd done a needs analysis onmyself and I mean I read 60
books a year, so I treat myselflike a project at the best of
times.
But it wasn't that there was.
There was just something inthat moment that had so much
certainty that I said thosewords and it was like afterwards
this is why you haven't won,because you doubted yourself.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So how can they trust you?
I think that's actually youknow.
If you get to, you know what'sthe lesson for the listener.
Why don't you go ahead and takethat one?
If I'm not mistaken, but Ithink you may have just said it-
yeah, good stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, I think going to be stating it, but I think
you may have just said it yeah,good stuff.
Yeah, I think it's, and it'snot like it's always conscious
doubt, because you're asalesperson, you're confident.
But there's something differentwhen you know and it's in you
you create it.
If you just think about thestory of Steve Jobs and knowing
what he needed to do at Appleremoving them from 39 products
to five I mean, how many peoplesaid to him are you crazy?
(09:49):
This is not what you should bedoing.
But he had agency because ofthe conviction of what he was
creating.
It was bigger than just youknow, I'm going to go train
sales managers.
I knew that this was the thingthat was going to put a dent in
the universe and because of thatI showed up differently.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, I think if you hadn't sold it it may have
smashed your confidence furtherlike oh my gosh.
And so you take a risk.
I think this is one of thelessons.
I think that to maybe in alesson extension is you know,
hey, be bold, believe whatyou're doing, not in an arrogant
way but in a confident way, butyou don't let that crush your
(10:27):
like.
Don't let one no crush yourconfidence.
Just learn from the no of why.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, it's so interesting you say that because
in the after the moment ofsaying it and putting the phone
down and, you know, sitting inthe dark because of electricity,
I was like I felt so certainthat I'd done the right thing.
So I wasn't expecting him tocall me back.
I didn't think it was aboutthat.
I thought it was about thelesson I had to take from it,
which is when you show up, soyou have to be before you can do
(10:56):
, before you can have.
So because I'd become someonewho trusted himself, the outcome
actually was irrelevant.
I felt worth In that darkmoment, I felt proud and I think
I figured something out here.
And then a week later theycalled me and then we trained
their sales managers in 22countries for nine years.
I mean, it was that.
(11:16):
But you know, obviously it wasa lot more a lot of work and
content creation.
But that moment going wow, if Inever said that and I'd love to
be lying to your audiencesaying I had so much courage
when I said it, I just said it Iwas like I'm not working with a
client that I lost the contractfrom and they're going to come
speak to 10 other people and bein the same boat.
I'm like, no way.
I'm like that.
When you're not speaking to me,I was going to call me.
(11:36):
You know what I mean.
Like I'm the prize.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Well, the thing is too, you point something out,
have said that.
But the fact that you've kindof ran around and then screwed
with it's like, hey, listen, I'mnot wasting time.
If you guys want to do this,come in when you're ready, not
when you're shopping, and whenyou're ready to buy, get your
credit card out, kind of thing.
And I think that's important ofknowing when to maybe be more
confident and when to kind ofwork the system.
You worked it on the first one,you impressed.
The first one, you impresssomebody along the way.
(12:06):
And the second one's like, hey,I'm not doing that again,
because that's yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
But there's another lesson in there.
As we're speaking, you know,usain Bolt says the easiest 10
seconds of his life is the 10seconds he uses to win gold.
It's everything else that he'sdoing.
I mean, I had read probably 63,64 books on sales management.
I deep dived, I builtframeworks, I took all the noise
and so I knew that what I hadhad depth in it, I'd done the
(12:34):
rigor, I'd done the work right.
So that had built so muchconviction and confidence in
what I created.
I don't think you can have thatstatement throw away when you're
not quite sure.
So I think that journey andthat was a tough journey it was
almost three months of notearning anything but trusting
that what I was building wasgoing somewhere and I was in
this tiny room with post-itnotes everywhere.
(12:55):
It was crazy.
So that moment was more thewhat is that saying?
My overnight success was thelongest night of my life.
It was that moment that kind oftriggered it, but it was
everything building up that.
I said that because I wascertain moment that kind of
triggered it, but it waseverything building up that.
I said that because I wascertain I'd given myself agency.
This is world-class, al.
So don't mess around withpeople who don't want to buy
(13:15):
world-class.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Love it.
Some rapid-fire questions here.
Who gives you inspiration?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
My mother.
Oh my word.
That woman is so strong.
She's 76, still working, livesin the UK on her own, has
friends.
Both my sisters have moved backthis side.
She'll probably move back atthe end of the year.
But loss of my father, divorcefrom an alcoholic, I mean, if I
had all her strength I'd beunstoppable.
She is absolutely phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
That's a good one to get inspiration from Holly.
What's the best business adviceyou've ever received?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I've got a lot of advice, but I'll say that it
came from Dan Sullivan andBenjamin Hardy's book.
10x is easier than 2X Becausewhen you read the book it makes
so much sense.
When you 2X you can stilldabble in a lot of things.
When you 10X, you have toeliminate, and growth comes from
elimination, and it was hard todo.
We had to eliminate products.
(14:17):
We had to eliminate egos.
I like being the star of theshow.
Suddenly I've got 12 peoplefacilitating and some of them
are getting better scores thanme.
You know my ego is like what isthis?
So elimination is the path toscaling.
It was a big lesson in the 10Xand it made a profound change.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I mean, I always ask what kind of book to recommend.
10x is easier than 2X.
I assume is the one for you.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Definitely.
I mean I'm talking, you know.
It's now been two years.
We've tripled every year.
We're, on well-being, 10Xwithin three, four years instead
of five.
And it's not that it's easy.
It's just that when you're2Xing you can still play
everywhere.
When you're 10X, you have to goeverywhere else.
I'll give you a simple idea.
(15:02):
He explains in the book.
If you're trying to play tennisfor college points versus
you're trying to play tennisprofessionally, the number of
coaches you can go to diminishesdramatically.
So the minute you go to 10X,the only way to get there is to
eliminate.
You can't be doing everything.
You can't be saying yes toeveryone.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
You know to get an executive assistant, like a lot
of things have to change and sothey do a little bit of success
across the board with this falseidea that they're going to go
(15:41):
10x on all of them.
But the truth is you can never.
You know you can run thatmarathon as fast as anyone, or
faster, but you can never getthe last mile done.
That's the 10x moment rightthere.
As you go all in on that one,get it up, get it going hold on.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
And I think there's another reason why entrepreneurs
like sliding, climbing aslippery pole.
When you stand still, you'refalling.
It's not something where I'vearrived.
So by 10Xing you'reguaranteeing a future success
because you can be okay now asan entrepreneur.
But I mean in my field theamount of people that are
sitting at 70, 80, 90 having towork because they just did a
small consulting business.
(16:12):
You know you don't want that,because the business needs to be
your slave, not your master.
So I'd say to all theentrepreneurs listening the one
thing you want to do is you'vegot to have the courage to 10x,
because the pole's always goingto be slippery and you're always
sliding down.
So why take a small leapforward where you can go?
No, let me just go 10x, 10x,10x.
And then I'm in a completelydifferent financial space,
mental space, impact space, andthat's the other thing.
(16:34):
If you have conviction of whatyou drive gives impact.
Why don't you go play with thebig boys and win the Adobe
contract?
Why don't you go do that?
Because that's where you turn X.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I love it.
I heard this at a church onSunday If you're coasting,
you're going downhill.
Yeah, it's such a greatstatement.
It's like wow, okay, You're notclimbing anything.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
And entrepreneurs it's at pace.
It's at pace.
I speak to so many businessowners who then say, no, I'm
winding things down, I'm goingto get back time with the family
.
10x forces you to build abusiness, not own the business.
You build a business.
You're not the business owner,you're a proper entrepreneur.
The amount of free time I'vegotten by doing four times more
business is crazy, but that'sbecause you have to, because I
(17:21):
have to free up my mind forcreativity.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
And so it is great advice If you had to start over
today.
What part of your life do youstart over?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
And what do you do differently?
I would choose my life partnera lot slower.
I am a big romantic and a redflag is more like something a
bull chases when it's me, andnot because I have anything
against the past relationships,just that I have a tendency not
to just take a pause and readthe room, because for me
(17:56):
personally that's a bigsignificant.
You know part of my life.
I like to have a witness aroundme and I'm sure I'll find one,
but I've kept things a lotslower and I just say Al slow
down.
It's not a race buddy, justit's okay.
You know it's embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
I think that's the quote.
I'm a bull when I see a redflag.
I'm a bull chasing it.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
It's like oh that looks interesting.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
I get stabbed in the neck a few times until I figure
it out, All right.
Well, not final question, butif there was a question I should
have asked you today, but Ididn't.
What would that question be andhow would you answer it?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
The number one skill you have to develop as an
entrepreneur?
The answer would be you have toknow how to sell, and what I
mean by that.
You have to realize that theonly reason a business exists is
to sell something.
There's so many entrepreneursthat have a wolf of Wall Street
view of what selling is, andit's not that I was saying
selling won't help, but helpingwill sell.
If what selling is and it's notthat, um, I was saying selling
(19:00):
won't help, but helping willsell if you believe that what
you have drives impact in theworld, it is negligent not to
master the profession of selling.
It is negligent because you'redenying the world your value.
You're denying it your value.
So stop telling yourself you'renot a salesperson.
Go read dan pink's to sell hishuman and start learning how to
master the skill, because ifyou't, then you can't explode a
business.
You have to know how to sell.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Was it Ford who said that Nothing begins until
something's sold?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
The only reason a business exists is to sell
something.
You know, I don't need HR, Idon't need finance, I don't need
operations, I don't need any ofthose resources unless we've
sold something.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
That I don't need any of those resources unless we've
sold something.
That's right.
I appreciate you coming ontoday.
It is shameless plug time foryou.
Who should get a hold of youand how should they do that?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Easiest way is I've got a very unique name, which is
fortunate.
All of my content sits onLinkedIn, because that's where
my audience is, the people whoshould be getting a hold of me.
If you have a large sales team,you're struggling to create
sustainable results and you knowthat you haven't developed your
sales managers, give us a shout.
That's our niche, that's whatwe do.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Wonderful.
I appreciate it.
I really do appreciate youcoming on today and joining me.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
It's been a great conversation, thank you.
Some good questions.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
I appreciate that.
Thank you, and for anyone who'sstill listening and you should
be, because it's a short podcast, we and you should be because
it's a short podcast.
We made it this way so youwould listen.
I appreciate it.
Get out there, go cut a tie tosomething holding you back.
Go unleash the best version ofyourself.
Unleash that entrepreneur thatwants to come out.
One small call to action Followour podcast on Apple or Spotify
and, if you're on the YouTubeside of the world, hit the
subscribe button Until we meetagain.
(20:32):
Thanks for listening to Cut theTie Podcast.
Have a.
Welcome to the Cut the Tie podcast.
Hi, I'm your host, thomasHelfrich.
I'm on a mission to help youcut the tie to whatever it is
holding you back from success.
So I want you to become thebest version of yourself, the
best entrepreneur, and todaywe're joined by Alan Versteeg.
I think I said it right.
Yes, did I do it right, alan?
You did it great.
I'm trying to do the SouthAfrican.
I don't know you.
I'm trying to do the SouthAfrican.
(00:22):
I don't know you, just showedme the accent.
Thank you for joining us today.
Do you want to take a momentintroduce yourself, and what do
you do?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, very quickly.
I run a company called GrowthMatters International focused
primarily on sales managementdevelopment.
Started life as an engineer,went into sales, was useless,
figured that out and thenstarted our own business
focusing on developing salesmanagers, because most companies
take the top performingsalesperson, promote them into
sales management and then neverprepare them for their role.
(00:50):
So that's the niche we play in.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
And there is a difference between being a good
salesperson and a manager ofsalespeople.
It's like I'd argue you shouldmake a good salesperson a
manager, because they'recompletely different skill sets.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
There are different mindsets and skill sets and you
can prepare them, but it doesn'thappen automatically.
I always say great hairdressersdon't necessarily run great
salons, great chefs don'tnecessarily run great
restaurants.
So the skill that got youpromoted is the opposite of the
skill you need to succeed.
So that's the niche.
We then go and develop andsupport them in becoming great
sales leaders.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
What's your power statement?
Why do people work with you?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Fundamentally, we drive impact through sales
because your number one lever issales managers.
Without investment in yoursales managers, no amount of
training, no amount ofconsulting, no amount of
technology has any sustainableimpact on your performance.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Give me a success story you guys have had.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Recently becoming the global partner for Adobe.
That's been really successful.
Considering we're two guys outof South Africa, so that's been
a huge success.
We've done some good work withAmazon Web Services.
Some nice impact there.
So really I think the big thingis we've 3.5 times our business
this year on a mission to 10xin three years.
So, yeah, on a good trajectory.
But a lot of it was mindset.
(02:04):
It was realizing we can 10X andread a great book called 10X is
easier than 2X and it is, butit's still challenging.
Scaling has its fears.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
yeah, I already know an answer to one of our rapid
fire questions then.
So I was going to ask if youhad read that.
I'll take one level deeper thatI maybe don't normally go is
how do you find your clients andwho is that client?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Fundamentally, we specifically target
organizations with a largeglobal footprint.
We work with a lot of localcompanies, a lot of global
companies, but we really want todrive that global impact
because that's where you get thetraction.
So our target is are you in aspace where you're managing a
sales team of six to eightpeople or more and you have a
global presence?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Do you guys do content development, direct
outreach or conferences?
I'm just curious how you guysgo find that client.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, content outreach, LinkedIn posts.
But then, the good old, if wehad invented the telephone after
email, we'd all phoning eachother.
So the good old outreach calljust to call someone and say,
hey, let's have a conversationbecause nobody's phoning them
anyway, that's right?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Well, no one picks up anymore.
That's the other piece.
Yeah, Well, apparently they dofor you.
Well, okay, so let's get intoit.
In your own journey of doingthis, you mentioned some things.
You were an engineer, you wentinto sales, had no business
being there, but then you becamesomething.
But you had to get over somethings.
You had to cut a tie, so tospeak.
So what was the tie you had tocut to find success?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
The number one tie I needed to cut and I only
realized after the fact that I'dcut it was agency.
You have to give yourselfpermission to trust that you can
create value.
You can believe you can createvalue, you can know the value of
your product, you can haveconviction, you can have all of
these things.
But if you don't give yourselfpermission, give yourself agency
(03:56):
to go, I am worthy of havingthese conversations and you
don't cut that mindset of oh,but am I, should, I, can, I?
You've got all the skill,you're already in the starting
blocks, but you just haven't hitthe gun because you haven't
given yourself agency.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
That's fantastic.
What was the moment yourealized that you'd cut it?
Or?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
did you realize?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
you needed to and then you realized you had
Because you had a weird approachto that.
It sounds like yeah, and Ididn't realize I had to.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
So what happened was I'd won a large global contract
for a provider or a supplyingpoint in South Africa.
So I had the South Africanlicense.
I won a big internationalcontract.
They then came to me and said,sorry, you can't take on the
whole international contractbecause you're regional.
I said but you's my contract.
It says I can.
And then they went back andforth with me and they went
quiet for about 20 days.
(04:48):
I wasn't sure what happened.
And then on the 1st of Marchthey said oh, by the way, your
contract has expired.
And they took that client awayfrom me and I was obviously
wounded and upset and frustrated.
And about four weeks later thatsame company phoned me and said
are you doing anything in salesmanagement?
And I just started building outa whole blueprint for sales
(05:09):
management.
So I spoke to them and I saidat the end of the call I said
listen here, michaela, who elseare you speaking to?
So she said no, speaking tothis one and this one and this
one.
I said okay, next time you callme, only call me when you're
only speaking to me.
And that was a bold thing tosay at a time that I desperately
needed money to survive, but Iknew the value of what I created
(05:31):
Called me a week later she saysno one's near where you're
playing in this space.
We're only working with you.
And it was that moment Irealized I gave myself
permission to trust what I had.
I gave myself the agency totrust what I had and it had an
immediate effect and exploded usinto an international contract
and my own business as opposedto representing someone else's.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I think that's an incredibly powerful thing and
I'll autobiograph it a littlebit where we have this community
called Cut the Tie and as westart getting the courses we're
at ready and the one-on-onecoaching and the things that
I'll go do to help people workthrough this, the mindset I've
had and I think you're giving methis might be my moment of
agency to trust it is I just ifyou're not serious, don't even,
(06:14):
don't even come Like, if you'renot actually here to get help or
be helped.
You just want to kind of seewhat it is.
Don't kick tires, get in and goall in, and I think that's the
idea is, if you're not, I don'twant you in the group because it
just it's dead weight and it'sso important because, sorry,
carry on no, no, you're me,because I but I like.
It's also like you're trying togrow a group and be friendly and
nice, but the truth is, I wantpeople who are serious yeah, and
(06:37):
the reality is the agency'sevidence of your conviction.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
So I always say we, we don't train competency.
Competency is the last thing.
The first thing you need isclarity of your value
proposition and your clarity ofyour own value.
Then you need conviction that Itrust this and that develops
confidence.
And that bridge betweenconviction and confidence is
agency.
I have so much belief that thisis going to create value that I
can show up in a different waythat say, hey, I know this is
(07:03):
the best stuff you've seenwithout saying it, but the
agency, when you've looked atall the other stuff, give me a
call.
So, yeah, it was a, as I say,the journey.
It sounds romantic, but at thetime I was getting my
electricity cut, I was gettingmy car repossessed.
It wasn't a time I should havebeen so bold, but something
happened in me and, yeah, it seta whole new trajectory for my
(07:24):
life.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Well, since then, what's been the impact of?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
life, family, business, relationships.
Well, massively I meaneffectively I think I earned
that year more than I'd earnedas an entrepreneur in the seven
years prior working as alicensee for someone.
I could create a great familyhome.
It was a different lifestyle.
We say sales is theworst-paying lazy job and the
best-paying hard-working job andwhen you crack through
something like that, it changeseverything.
(07:53):
It doesn't mean everything wasperfect.
Seven years later I wentthrough a divorce.
I did not handle that well,went through a very trying time,
internally caught up inrumination, and it was tough.
But I'd built a business and Icould always come back to that
passion and that's been mypartner all my life since then.
(08:14):
This is the thing that I canhave and do and build and have
impact in other people's lives.
And the other big thing isreach.
I mean I've been to 17countries.
In COVID we train people in 49countries.
I get to meet people and impactpeople and I'm a social guy.
It's as if the universe shinedon me.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
It's amazing, one could argue.
The opportunity met you whereyou were and you saw the light,
so to speak, to get it.
Now some people miss it, somepeople just get bitter and don't
try anything new.
I think a good lesson here, too, is you tried something new
without knowing you were youwere doing it.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Well, a hundred percent, I think it was.
I would love to tell everyoneas well, plan thought out.
I'd done a needs analysis onmyself and I mean I read 60
books a year, so I treat myselflike a project at the best of
times.
But it wasn't that there was.
There was just something inthat moment that had so much
certainty that I said thosewords and it was like afterwards
this is why you haven't won,because you doubted yourself.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So how can they trust you?
I think that's actually youknow.
If you get to, you know what'sthe lesson for the listener.
Why don't you go ahead and takethat one?
If I'm not mistaken, but Ithink you may have just said it-
yeah, good stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, I think going to be stating it, but I think
you may have just said it yeah,good stuff.
Yeah, I think it's, and it'snot like it's always conscious
doubt, because you're asalesperson, you're confident.
But there's something differentwhen you know and it's in you
you create it.
If you just think about thestory of Steve Jobs and knowing
what he needed to do at Appleremoving them from 39 products
to five I mean, how many peoplesaid to him are you crazy?
(09:49):
This is not what you should bedoing.
But he had agency because ofthe conviction of what he was
creating.
It was bigger than just youknow, I'm going to go train
sales managers.
I knew that this was the thingthat was going to put a dent in
the universe and because of thatI showed up differently.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, I think if you hadn't sold it it may have
smashed your confidence furtherlike oh my gosh.
And so you take a risk.
I think this is one of thelessons.
I think that to maybe in alesson extension is you know,
hey, be bold, believe whatyou're doing, not in an arrogant
way but in a confident way, butyou don't let that crush your
(10:27):
like.
Don't let one no crush yourconfidence.
Just learn from the no of why.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, it's so interesting you say that because
in the after the moment ofsaying it and putting the phone
down and, you know, sitting inthe dark because of electricity,
I was like I felt so certainthat I'd done the right thing.
So I wasn't expecting him tocall me back.
I didn't think it was aboutthat.
I thought it was about thelesson I had to take from it,
which is when you show up, soyou have to be before you can do
(10:56):
, before you can have.
So because I'd become someonewho trusted himself, the outcome
actually was irrelevant.
I felt worth In that darkmoment, I felt proud and I think
I figured something out here.
And then a week later theycalled me and then we trained
their sales managers in 22countries for nine years.
I mean, it was that.
(11:16):
But you know, obviously it wasa lot more a lot of work and
content creation.
But that moment going wow, if Inever said that and I'd love to
be lying to your audiencesaying I had so much courage
when I said it, I just said it Iwas like I'm not working with a
client that I lost the contractfrom and they're going to come
speak to 10 other people and bein the same boat.
I'm like, no way.
I'm like that.
When you're not speaking to me,I was going to call me.
(11:36):
You know what I mean.
Like I'm the prize.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Well, the thing is too, you point something out,
have said that.
But the fact that you've kindof ran around and then screwed
with it's like, hey, listen, I'mnot wasting time.
If you guys want to do this,come in when you're ready, not
when you're shopping, and whenyou're ready to buy, get your
credit card out, kind of thing.
And I think that's important ofknowing when to maybe be more
confident and when to kind ofwork the system.
You worked it on the first one,you impressed.
The first one, you impresssomebody along the way.
(12:06):
And the second one's like, hey,I'm not doing that again,
because that's yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
But there's another lesson in there.
As we're speaking, you know,usain Bolt says the easiest 10
seconds of his life is the 10seconds he uses to win gold.
It's everything else that he'sdoing.
I mean, I had read probably 63,64 books on sales management.
I deep dived, I builtframeworks, I took all the noise
and so I knew that what I hadhad depth in it, I'd done the
(12:34):
rigor, I'd done the work right.
So that had built so muchconviction and confidence in
what I created.
I don't think you can have thatstatement throw away when you're
not quite sure.
So I think that journey andthat was a tough journey it was
almost three months of notearning anything but trusting
that what I was building wasgoing somewhere and I was in
this tiny room with post-itnotes everywhere.
(12:55):
It was crazy.
So that moment was more thewhat is that saying?
My overnight success was thelongest night of my life.
It was that moment that kind oftriggered it, but it was
everything building up that.
I said that because I wascertain moment that kind of
triggered it, but it waseverything building up that.
I said that because I wascertain I'd given myself agency.
This is world-class, al.
So don't mess around withpeople who don't want to buy
(13:15):
world-class.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Love it.
Some rapid-fire questions here.
Who gives you inspiration?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
My mother.
Oh my word.
That woman is so strong.
She's 76, still working, livesin the UK on her own, has
friends.
Both my sisters have moved backthis side.
She'll probably move back atthe end of the year.
But loss of my father, divorcefrom an alcoholic, I mean, if I
had all her strength I'd beunstoppable.
She is absolutely phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
That's a good one to get inspiration from Holly.
What's the best business adviceyou've ever received?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I've got a lot of advice, but I'll say that it
came from Dan Sullivan andBenjamin Hardy's book.
10x is easier than 2X Becausewhen you read the book it makes
so much sense.
When you 2X you can stilldabble in a lot of things.
When you 10X, you have toeliminate, and growth comes from
elimination, and it was hard todo.
We had to eliminate products.
(14:17):
We had to eliminate egos.
I like being the star of theshow.
Suddenly I've got 12 peoplefacilitating and some of them
are getting better scores thanme.
You know my ego is like what isthis?
So elimination is the path toscaling.
It was a big lesson in the 10Xand it made a profound change.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I mean, I always ask what kind of book to recommend.
10x is easier than 2X.
I assume is the one for you.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Definitely.
I mean I'm talking, you know.
It's now been two years.
We've tripled every year.
We're, on well-being, 10Xwithin three, four years instead
of five.
And it's not that it's easy.
It's just that when you're2Xing you can still play
everywhere.
When you're 10X, you have to goeverywhere else.
I'll give you a simple idea.
(15:02):
He explains in the book.
If you're trying to play tennisfor college points versus
you're trying to play tennisprofessionally, the number of
coaches you can go to diminishesdramatically.
So the minute you go to 10X,the only way to get there is to
eliminate.
You can't be doing everything.
You can't be saying yes toeveryone.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
You know to get an executive assistant, like a lot
of things have to change and sothey do a little bit of success
across the board with this falseidea that they're going to go
(15:41):
10x on all of them.
But the truth is you can never.
You know you can run thatmarathon as fast as anyone, or
faster, but you can never getthe last mile done.
That's the 10x moment rightthere.
As you go all in on that one,get it up, get it going hold on.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
And I think there's another reason why entrepreneurs
like sliding, climbing aslippery pole.
When you stand still, you'refalling.
It's not something where I'vearrived.
So by 10Xing you'reguaranteeing a future success
because you can be okay now asan entrepreneur.
But I mean in my field theamount of people that are
sitting at 70, 80, 90 having towork because they just did a
small consulting business.
(16:12):
You know you don't want that,because the business needs to be
your slave, not your master.
So I'd say to all theentrepreneurs listening the one
thing you want to do is you'vegot to have the courage to 10x,
because the pole's always goingto be slippery and you're always
sliding down.
So why take a small leapforward where you can go?
No, let me just go 10x, 10x,10x.
And then I'm in a completelydifferent financial space,
mental space, impact space, andthat's the other thing.
(16:34):
If you have conviction of whatyou drive gives impact.
Why don't you go play with thebig boys and win the Adobe
contract?
Why don't you go do that?
Because that's where you turn X.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I love it.
I heard this at a church onSunday If you're coasting,
you're going downhill.
Yeah, it's such a greatstatement.
It's like wow, okay, You're notclimbing anything.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
And entrepreneurs it's at pace.
It's at pace.
I speak to so many businessowners who then say, no, I'm
winding things down, I'm goingto get back time with the family
.
10x forces you to build abusiness, not own the business.
You build a business.
You're not the business owner,you're a proper entrepreneur.
The amount of free time I'vegotten by doing four times more
business is crazy, but that'sbecause you have to, because I
(17:21):
have to free up my mind forcreativity.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
And so it is great advice If you had to start over
today.
What part of your life do youstart over?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
And what do you do differently?
I would choose my life partnera lot slower.
I am a big romantic and a redflag is more like something a
bull chases when it's me, andnot because I have anything
against the past relationships,just that I have a tendency not
to just take a pause and readthe room, because for me
(17:56):
personally that's a bigsignificant.
You know part of my life.
I like to have a witness aroundme and I'm sure I'll find one,
but I've kept things a lotslower and I just say Al slow
down.
It's not a race buddy, justit's okay.
You know it's embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
I think that's the quote.
I'm a bull when I see a redflag.
I'm a bull chasing it.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
It's like oh that looks interesting.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
I get stabbed in the neck a few times until I figure
it out, All right.
Well, not final question, butif there was a question I should
have asked you today, but Ididn't.
What would that question be andhow would you answer it?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
The number one skill you have to develop as an
entrepreneur?
The answer would be you have toknow how to sell, and what I
mean by that.
You have to realize that theonly reason a business exists is
to sell something.
There's so many entrepreneursthat have a wolf of Wall Street
view of what selling is, andit's not that I was saying
selling won't help, but helpingwill sell.
If what selling is and it's notthat, um, I was saying selling
(19:00):
won't help, but helping willsell if you believe that what
you have drives impact in theworld, it is negligent not to
master the profession of selling.
It is negligent because you'redenying the world your value.
You're denying it your value.
So stop telling yourself you'renot a salesperson.
Go read dan pink's to sell hishuman and start learning how to
master the skill, because ifyou't, then you can't explode a
business.
You have to know how to sell.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Was it Ford who said that Nothing begins until
something's sold?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
The only reason a business exists is to sell
something.
You know, I don't need HR, Idon't need finance, I don't need
operations, I don't need any ofthose resources unless we've
sold something.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
That I don't need any of those resources unless we've
sold something.
That's right.
I appreciate you coming ontoday.
It is shameless plug time foryou.
Who should get a hold of youand how should they do that?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Easiest way is I've got a very unique name, which is
fortunate.
All of my content sits onLinkedIn, because that's where
my audience is, the people whoshould be getting a hold of me.
If you have a large sales team,you're struggling to create
sustainable results and you knowthat you haven't developed your
sales managers, give us a shout.
That's our niche, that's whatwe do.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Wonderful.
I appreciate it.
I really do appreciate youcoming on today and joining me.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
It's been a great conversation, thank you.
Some good questions.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
I appreciate that.
Thank you, and for anyone who'sstill listening and you should
be, because it's a short podcast, we and you should be because
it's a short podcast.
We made it this way so youwould listen.
I appreciate it.
Get out there, go cut a tie tosomething holding you back.
Go unleash the best version ofyourself.
Unleash that entrepreneur thatwants to come out.
One small call to action Followour podcast on Apple or Spotify
and, if you're on the YouTubeside of the world, hit the
subscribe button Until we meetagain.
(20:32):
Thanks for listening to Cut theTie Podcast.
Have a.
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