August 19, 2025 • 33 mins
Cut The Tie Podcast with Mike Swenson
What do you do when your lifelong dream career takes a sudden turn—and leads you somewhere better than you imagined? In this episode, Thomas Helfrich sits down with Mike Swenson, a retired PR executive, former journalist, and creator of the CrisisTrak system.
Mike’s journey started with a childhood dream of being a broadcaster, shifted into politics when he became press secretary to the Kansas governor, and ultimately led him to build a nationally respected PR firm. Along the way, he discovered the importance of keeping communication simple, focused, and strategic—especially in times of crisis.
Now in retirement, Mike isn’t slowing down. He’s reigniting his spark by sharing CrisisTrak with small businesses and nonprofits who need practical, do-it-yourself tools to handle the unexpected.
About Mike Swenson:
Mike Swenson is the founder of CrisisTrak and the retired CEO of a Kansas City PR firm he helped build from scratch. His career spans decades in journalism, politics, and public relations—including serving as press secretary to the Kansas governor and directing communications for major corporate and nonprofit clients. Known for distilling complex problems into simple, actionable steps, Mike’s CrisisTrak framework helps organizations of all sizes prepare for and manage crises. Today, he continues to consult, podcast, and mentor entrepreneurs—while enjoying time with his wife, four kids, and eight grandkids.
In this episode, Thomas and Mike discuss:
- Cutting ties with a childhood dream
How Mike walked away from his broadcasting career to take a leap into politics—and why it became his “graduate school” in crisis management. - The jump from politics to PR
Leaving government meant leaving security. Mike shares how he navigated the uncertainty, took a pay cut, and launched into building a firm from the ground up. - Why strategy beats noise
The mantra Mike carried throughout his career: communication without strategy is a lost opportunity. - The tie he refuses to cut
Retirement didn’t mean slowing down. Mike explains why CrisisTrak keeps him sharp, fulfilled, and still contributing after leaving agency life.
Key Takeaways:
- Strategy gives communication power
Words without clear action and purpose are wasted. - Opportunities come when you’re prepared to pivot
Be open to big shifts—even if it means leaving behind a dream. - Crisis planning isn’t optional
Something will go wrong; the question is whether you’re ready. - Keep it simple
The best frameworks are easy to use, easy to teach, and easy to act on when it matters most.
Connect with Mike Swenson:
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeswenson1/
🌐 Website: https://crisistrak.com/
Connect with Thomas Helfrich:
🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/thelfrich
📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/cutthetie
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomashelfrich/
🌐 Website: https://www.cutthetie.com
📧 Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
🚀 InstantlyRelevant.com: https://www.instantlyrelevant.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Cut the Tide podcast.
Hello, I am your host, thomasHelfrich.
I'm on a mission to help youcut the tide of whatever it is
holding you back from success,and if you've been here before,
you know that you've got todefine that success yourself.
If you don't, you're chasingsomeone else's dream, and today
I'm joined by Mike Swenson or isit Samson Knight?
Remember Dumb and Dumber MarySwanson?
(00:20):
Yeah, mike, mary Swanson, yeah,mike.
That's it.
It's a marketing trick torepeat your name over and over
Mike Swenson, s-w-e-n.
Mike, how are you?
I'm great.
I'm doing great Good to be onThomas.
I appreciate the opportunity tobe with you.
Listen, I'm excited to hearyour ties that you had to cut.
(00:52):
Why don't you start, though,with who you are, where you're
located and what it is you do?
I'm in a suburb of Kansas CityOverland Park, kansas and I'm
retired now, but I started outas a broadcast journalist.
I was press secretary to agovernor in Kansas for five
years, and then I started a PRfirm in Kansas City in the late
80s and ran it until I retiredat the end of 2020 and passed
the baton, but one of the thingswe'll talk about today is one
of the things that we created.
There was a process calledCrisis Track.
(01:13):
So that's who I am.
My wife and I have four kidsand eight grandkids, so we keep
busy.
That is busy, all right, ok, sobefore we begin, I always like
to give the ADHD-er out theresomething to look at, because
they can't listen and payattention just by listening.
So you got to be playing withsomething.
Give them the one link addressthat they should check out so
they can stalk you properlywhile you're talking.
(01:33):
I would say go to my LinkedInprofile first, because I got a
lot of crisis content on there.
Mike Swenson one on LinkedInGot it, mike Swenson one and
they can link.
They can link to the crisistrack website from there.
Beautiful, um, all right.
Yeah, I've been to something.
For me, though, um, you know, Iusually ask what the kind of
(01:54):
unique differences between youand a commoditized type of
business Like there's lots ofyours sounds just unique by
itself.
Can you peel the layer back alittle bit about what you mean
by what you do?
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, the most important thingwe did as a PR firm for our
clients was crisiscommunications, and we created
in the early 90s, along with oneof our first clients a process
(02:15):
to simplify crisis management,because I would visit with
clients who had three notebooksup on the shelf about crisis and
said when's the last time youread it?
You got to blow the dust off.
Let's get down to brass tacks.
We have five steps and it'ssimple.
It's simple and we created a.
I've created some videos thatsmall businesses can do it on
their own now.
(02:35):
So it's it's simple approachand they should be doing it,
because bad things are going tohappen.
Yeah, and and and.
Crisis could be, you know, acold play concert.
Um, could be a cold playconcert.
To be fair, I don't thinkthat's newsworthy and I and I it
.
That's, it's memes, but it'slike shareholders and their
families can have an issue and Ibet the shareholders don't
(02:56):
actually care as long as theymake money.
It's, yeah, it's the.
It's the worst example.
It's the worst example of whatsocial media does to a story.
It is.
The truth is, it's probably themost genius marketing ploy ever
.
It's like we did that.
Who'd ever heard of Astronomeruntil this?
Right?
Or Coldplay anymore, for thatmatter.
That's true.
(03:16):
They're selling albums likecrazy.
Now that's going to make thecut.
Just so you know, all right,before we get into your journey.
How do you define success?
I've always lived by a mantraof there is any communication
without a strategy is a lostopportunity, and what I mean by
(03:37):
that is it's easy to get up andsay stuff and get in front of
media or key audiences and justsay a bunch of stuff, but what's
behind it?
The moment I opened my mouth?
I hope that I backed it up withsome kind of action that's
going to take place and allow,allow people to to not just hear
what I say but understand whatI say and act on it, and I think
(03:58):
that's, to me, the mostimportant part of communication.
Yeah, and, and I, and I thinkyou know as you get into your
journey here, identify, maybeyou know obviously, how'd you
get to here, where you are, andwhat's been the biggest you know
metaphor tie for you to cut toachieve that success.
I want to be sports was how Istarted it and went to Kansas
(04:24):
University, went to the J schooland and proceeded to work in
public radio and then commercial.
That was absolutely a blast andum, but uh, my family has
(04:53):
always been involved in politicsin Kansas and so I was covering
the state house, uh, coveringthe legislature and the governor
.
And, uh, one day in the Capitol, um, the governor's press
secretary walked up to me andsaid hey, I want to talk to you
a minute.
He said my assistant is leaving.
Don Smith is his name, you know, I knew Don really well.
Don's leaving and I'd like youto be come on board as our
assistant press secretary.
So I I plan on being the nextDan Rather, you know.
(05:18):
And so I had a big decision tomake and I loved what I was
doing and I was just getting,you know, kind of rolling, and I
don't think I was going to beat that station for the rest of
my life, but who knows where wewould have gone.
But I went home, we talkedabout it and I just felt like it
was a huge opportunity Icouldn't pass up.
So I cut the tie of somethingI'd wanted to do since I was 12
(05:40):
years old and jumped to theother side, as they say in the
business.
I was 12 years old and jumpedto the other side, as they say
in the business.
I went from being in the mediato trying to convince the media
to say wonderful things aboutthe guy I was working for, and
it truly is a big change.
I took two weeks off butliterally I walked in the
Capitol two weeks later in awhole different role with all
the same people I've beendealing with or working with all
(06:02):
that time and it worked out.
It became the.
I always refer to those fiveyears as my graduate school Um
and and because I learned somuch and that's where my really
understanding of how to managethings when they go wrong were,
you know, occurred.
Because you know, in apolitical environment you're
going to have you have stuffhappen all the time, every day,
(06:24):
different levels of importanceor meaning, but still you got to
deal with stuff all the time.
So that was good and that setme on the way.
And then, when the governor Iworked for was term limited, I
worked on another campaign.
That one was not successful,and that's when I went to Kansas
City and started in the PR bizand that worked out a little
better.
So that was definitely theabsolute moment where my life
(06:48):
went down a different road.
Dive into when you started.
That's another shift too,because it's going from you know
where's my next check comingfrom to I need to go kill
something to eat it.
Talk about, I mean, that's alsoa tie.
That obviously worked out.
But in the moment, how did youdeal with that switchback or
(07:08):
switch to-.
Yeah, well, like I said, Iworked on this other campaign, a
governor's race it was a guywho's our lieutenant governor
and we lost in a very closeelection, one that I've replayed
with a couple of people timeand time again over the years.
But yeah, I literally woke upthe day after election knowing I
had 75 days and the governorthat I'd been working for put me
(07:32):
back on staff to help him kindof close things out.
So I had some work to do, butbasically he gave me a lifeline
to keep the income going until Icould get it.
And so then I went through alot of.
I actually thought aboutbroadcasting.
I thought, well, okay, I couldgo back into broadcasting.
I've done news, I've doneproduction.
I go back in and hold my noseand go do some sales.
(07:55):
You know, because I, you know Iwas a journalist but I'm going
to go sell TV time to the localgrocery store.
But I'll do it, I'll thinkabout doing it, because if I do
that then I can get on amanagement track and go down the
road and be in broadcasting therest of my life.
So I actually entertained thatand talked to a couple people.
But then I got a call One ofthose things you get out of the
blue from a woman who'd been onthe governor's staff and she was
(08:19):
now in Kansas City and she said, hey, there's this PR firm in
Kansas City that's looking foran account executive.
I said, okay, what the heck,I'll try.
So I called and ended upworking with this guy.
I got hired by a gentlemannamed Howard Boasberg who was a
tremendous PR legend in KansasCity.
Many of us he's got the coach,one of the great coaching trees,
(08:40):
because I went on and startedanother firm and I went with him
a year.
Interesting story.
So I'm going in for my lastinterview with him on this, and
this is 1987, okay, or late at1986.
And he's offered me the job andhe says it's account executive,
the salary is $28,000 andhere's your benefits.
(09:02):
I said, well, that's great,howard, I appreciate the offer
and I'm really interested in it,but I'm making $35,000 a year
right now.
And he said I understand, mike,this job pays 28.
And again, a little cut the tiemoment, because 7,000 bucks in
1986, I mean that was a you knowwhat.
I'm not quick with math, butthat's a fourth of my revenue
(09:26):
coming in and that's on toprevenue at that time too.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
So a small cut the tie moment.
But it didn't take me long torealize that's the thing to do
and that's what set me on thepath that you know.
A year later, I went to Barkleyand Evergreengreen and started
the PR for an external ad agencythere.
So, yeah, I think one of thethings that take away I try to
(09:47):
find sometimes reflectivemoments is the you don't get
those opportunities if you'rekind of unaffected or an asshole
or whatever.
You know, asshole is probablyactually a mutually exclusive
thing, but if you don't playnice within the communities of
what you've worked in, you couldbe edge, you can be your person
, but as long as you, it mayaffect your next thing, there's
(10:13):
no doubt it does.
There's no doubt it does, andthat's why I'm saying I
literally took two weeks offbetween being a reporter to
being convincing reporters to dothat, and I'm glad I took those
two weeks.
At some point I had to walk inthe door but all of a sudden I'm
working.
These are colleagues, the mediahad been my colleagues and we
all covered the same stuff.
And yes, we all covered thesame stuff and and yes, we were
(10:36):
competing against each other,but we all shared in, you know,
and and so it was.
It was a, it was a process tokind of realize that I'm sitting
behind the desk now instead ofon the other side of the desk
asking the questions.
Um and it.
It took a little bit and I wasassistant press secretary, so I
wasn't garnering the everydaybarrage that the press secretary
(10:57):
was.
But after the governor wasreelected in 82 and I was
involved in that campaign, I wasa blast working on a campaign
like that and I became presssecretary for the second term.
What's your probably mostimpactful moment of your career?
Oh, that's hard to pick one,but I would say I'm going to say
(11:25):
something that really made adifference.
So when I went to Barkley andEvergreen to start the PR firm
there, there'd been another guythere that had been trying to
start a PR firm and hadn'tworked out, and the founder of
Barkley and Evergreen to startthe PR firm there, there'd been
another guy there that had beentrying to start a PR firm and
hadn't worked out, and thefounder of Barkley and Evergreen
, a guy by the name of BillFromm.
Um, and those two didn't reallyget along.
And so, and Bill Fromm had nothired me, the other guy had
brought me over.
(11:46):
So, uh, I sat down with Bill, sothis was like December, in
December of 88.
And he said look, I don't knowyou that well, but I've seen you
, you've been here a year andyou brought in some business.
I brought in some revenue andwe need a PR firm and I want you
to do it.
You got to do two things for me, though.
(12:07):
I said great, what are those?
One, we got to make money.
And two, because Bill is aclassic entrepreneur, bill said
I want you to go get half yourbusiness on your own.
Now, we, we, we were providingPR for the advertising, his
existing advertising clients,but he wanted to see can we
start a business?
And that was truly an impactfulmoment because 32 years later,
(12:31):
you know it worked and and it'sgoing today.
I passed the baton to a womanwho's worked with me for 20
years and she's carrying on andthat agency I walked in Barkley
and Evergreen.
It was 45 people in the wholeagency.
Today there are 900 and theyhave offices in six cities and
so, and that that's the wholecompany, and so we went out.
So at the end of the first year, boom, we'd made money and we
(12:55):
had created a program that gotus into several businesses right
away and got us more than halfour revenue on our own, and we
maintained that all the waythrough.
Sometimes it was even as muchas 60% of our revenue was
PR-only clients.
So that became a focus for me.
It's like that was always.
My North star is 50, 50 at least.
(13:16):
Well, and it's, it's uh, I meanjust from a business model,
right, like if you could do that, if you're half the cost,
you're doing pretty good, right,right, and you're bringing,
you're bringing in revenue thatthat's not going to come in any
other way, you know it's notgoing to come through the ad
agency.
So, right, and there's so many,there's so many ad agencies
that don't do that.
They, they have PR as a service, they don't have it as a as a
(13:37):
business.
And there there are greatagencies in Kansas city where
you know, uh, I actually had oneguy come and approach me about
you know, I'd been at Barkleyfor a while and had been, you
know we'd had some good successand he approached me about
coming on board to his agencyand he said, well, you know,
what would it take?
I said, well, I said I reallylike what I'm doing and I said I
guess it would take a you know,this kind of car and this kind
(13:59):
of this and this kind of thatand this much money.
And he goes really, I said,yeah, I'm really happy and I
didn't have all those things.
But I thought, you know, ifhe's asking, I'm going in there
in a Florida home, yeah, exactly, you pay for and insure, yeah,
for the next 50 years, or youhave to wash mine topless every
(14:21):
week.
Either way, it's got to be aguy.
When you say that statement,exactly, that's going to make
the cut too, by the way.
So, yeah, well, no, listen.
So I think you know, if Ireflect back to right like, do
you have the systems in place todo this, as opposed to just
(14:43):
send a DM with nothing around it?
We, we've become way moresuccessful because people are
like, yeah, we get it, like wetry that whole, this tech or
this tech.
It never seems to work.
And there's, there's arealization when you, when you
say, well, you need to build a,basically a business around your
whatever that is, it needs togenerate money.
We took out a pro like hey, ifwe're doing it with you, it's
got to make money.
(15:03):
Like it's not like hey, great.
In a similar way, where it's ano brainer to start and as you
make money, we make more money.
It's like hey, we'll, we'll doit, attribution style, as we get
to know and trust you and soyeah, it's.
I love that because if you havethat, that mindset, then you're
, you're both in growth mode.
Yeah, I mean it sets you on a,on a, set us on a path who are
(15:32):
connected.
Mostly, it's like PR is justgoing to be a service to the and
the ad agency will run theaccount and you, you provide
this and this.
It's like I would never havebeen interested in that.
That wouldn't.
If that was what I had beendoing, I doubt I would have been
there 32 years because I wouldhave lost interest.
So what's the tie that you'restruggling to cut right now?
Modern day for yourself?
Cut right now modern day foryourself.
(15:56):
Um, well, I've, I've, uh, youknow the the.
Another impactful moment at theagency was when we were hired by
a, a, a large um and growing uhfast food chain in the early
nineties and she, the head of PR, approached me early on.
She said I'm really worried.
We're growing so fast.
I don't think we are ready todeal if something goes wrong.
When something goes wrong andin the food business things are
(16:19):
going to go wrong it takes oneteenager at one drive-in
restaurant to do somethingstupid and it becomes a national
brand crisis.
And so she brought her team inand we sat in a room for three
days that we created this crisistrack and the mindset I told
you know our, our, our missionearly on was what's the simple,
what are the fewest stepspossible that we got to put
(16:41):
together to make this thing work?
And, um, so that became animpactful moment.
So, okay, so I'm cutting the tienow, in a sense that I've
always I always had in mycontract whenever I left, uh
Barkley, that I could takeCrisis Track, the process and
the name with me.
They will still use it and theydo use it, but I could take it
with me and use it as well.
(17:01):
So it sat there for a long time.
I mean I retired at the end of2020.
I was consulting.
I got really busy during COVIDbecause I had a couple clients
hire me that were COVID-specific.
So I'm out there just on my own, which is a great thing.
By the way, that is not a tie Iwant to cut.
I only can manage me now.
So I'm, you know.
Somebody asked me are you goingto hire people?
(17:25):
I said no, I'm not going tohire anybody, I'm just it's me
now.
So, but cutting I don't know ifit's cutting the tie so much as
just me getting off my you know.
And finally, about a year ago, Ifinally kind of worked with
some people to help putsomething together, create a
website and take crisis trackand begin to sell it and get it
out there and offer it.
And so I I'm I don't know ifit's cutting the tie or but it's
(17:46):
just been kind of like pushingmyself.
You want to do this, so get outthere and do it.
And sitting here today with youis an important part of just
getting the message out thatwe've got a very easy, we've got
a simple way.
And there's too many companies,thomas, way too many companies
and we work with nonprofits, tootoo many organizations that
just don't think they need toworry about a crisis until it
(18:08):
happens, which is the singlebiggest mistake anybody can make
, and we all know that and we'vethere's countless episodes over
time that we know, uh, or youcan tell right away when people
are handling it or not handlingwell, and so what, what we're
offering here is, like you, youknow, you may be a small
business, you can't afford tohave a PR firm, uh, and and.
(18:29):
But here's, here's a processyou can actually take and put in
place yourself and uh.
So I don't know if I'manswering your question, but
that's kind of I've been pushingmyself to.
Finally and finally, I'm reallyon the road and getting it done
, you know, but it's it's addedlike let's go, you're going to
do it.
You're not getting younger, youknow, yeah, well, that's the
tiger cutting.
It sounds like right.
(18:49):
I'll try to.
I don't say it right, justcorrect me is is you know you're
, you've had a great career.
You have no interest in sittingaround and golf's fun, right,
and tennis, all those things,but it's uh, yeah, yeah, it's
not enough, um, for somebody whois in the hunt, loves the game
and mind is sharp.
That's where you want to be,and I don't know about you.
(19:10):
I'm 49, but I interact with lotsof people that are like 60s,
65s, 70s, that are stillentrepreneurs, because they said
this one thing specifically,which is I'm never retiring
because of this.
They said, every one of myfriends that's retired has died
or is miserable.
Yeah, yeah, I know them too.
Like realization of a falsedream.
They were sold um, and they'relike and and and.
(19:33):
And.
I was like, oh my god, they'relike, so you stay active.
I don't even care if thisbusiness like makes a million or
just puts 200 extra on my table.
It's something for me to focuson.
You know, you get on and I'minterested.
So you know one of the questionsI would ask if you were, if you
, if I was you, though, it wouldmake sense because you have
more experience.
But I would say, is that sparkstrong enough to keep you going?
(19:53):
Because if you can't, usuallysparks get you going right away.
So if you got to find it, thequestion I have for you is is it
the right spark long-term?
Are you hanging on?
You really want to do a podcastor something like in sports or
something?
Get hanging on.
You really want to do a podcastor something like in sports, or
something to get back on theair?
Are you visiting the childhooddream?
No, it's, it's uh, this isgreat, and and I started.
(20:14):
I also I'm going to be 70 inSeptember, okay, and I know the
people are talking about I havefriends who, yeah, they just
have it.
And I love golf.
I play twice a week.
That's all I want to play andwe play.
We play in three and a halfhours.
We walk, you know we got a.
You know got a group of youknow six or eight of us that we,
you know, end up, but it'stwice a week.
That's all I want I.
(20:35):
But I know people that are outthere every day and I'm going.
I don't want to do that.
No, this is the spark because itneeded to be lit and I finally,
like I said, I got, and part ofit, part of it was I was busy
with consulting.
I had clients I was doing stuffwith on general traditional PR
stuff, always some little crisisthings mixed in.
(20:56):
But, um, but no, this is it.
I'm excited and to me,podcasting is uh, this gives me
back to Broadway.
This is, this is.
This is the new talk shows, anda buddy and I, a guy who owned
an agency, can't say we starteda podcast in Kansas city called
Kansas city marketing legends.
We're in our second season.
It's fun?
We're not, you know.
Everybody says how are you goingto monetize it?
(21:17):
I go we're monetizing it byevolution Audio gets, lets us
produce, produces everything forfree.
We got a creative guy who doesour look and feel and runs our
website, and we've got othersponsors that are helping us
promote it.
That's how we monetize, so wedon't care about making money,
but it's fun, you know, and sothat's my creative, you know, a
little bit of creative outlet.
So the but crisis track is isthe spark, and I'm I'm on it now
(21:39):
.
Yeah, I love that and that's Imean, that's anybody who's kind
of like the question you alwaysask yourself.
If you can't spark yourself in,you have to ask is that really
where you want to be?
It's an honest question youhave to ask yourself because it
will not be sustainable if it isnot.
If you don't have aself-igniting fusion center in
the middle of that thing, you'regoing to burn out At some point
(21:59):
.
The fuel does run out.
I'm spending time on crisistrack every day, including
weekends.
I spend a few hours every day,you know, two or three hours a
day, which is all you need to doJust trying to schedule
podcasts, doing some work on thewebsite coming up with content
that I put up on LinkedIn andyou know, but I spend time on it
every day.
Yeah, that's great.
If you could go back in time,when would you go back into your
(22:21):
timeline and what would you dodifferently?
You know you probably get thisanswer a lot.
I wouldn't do anythingdifferently, but I'll answer
your question because and youkind of alluded to it a second
ago when you asked me about wasthis really my spark, or was
broadcasting?
I mean I don't, I'll never knowhow far I would have gotten or
(22:44):
where, what the broadcastingwould have taken me to if I'd
stayed, if I'd become an infront of the camera reporter or
if I'd been a behind the scenes.
I mean, as I learned how todirect, I was dreaming about oh
my God, I would love to be thedirector of a big sporting event
, a Super Bowl, a World Series,where you got 25, 30 cameras.
(23:04):
So I'll never know, because Ididn't take that road.
So that would be the only placewhere I'd say you know, yeah, I
I would think about if Idecided, if I didn't do what I
did, I'd go back and stay inbroadcasting and see where it
took me.
Um, and that's because that wasthe big cut, the tie moment.
Yeah, you know, it's everything.
I have an idea that everythinghappens for you, which is hard
(23:31):
to keep your mindset when thingsare happening to you, and so
it's the reflective moments.
But you don't seem unhappy,which is beautiful.
There was a question probably Ishould ask today, though I
didn't.
What would that question havebeen?
Oh, let's see.
Well, you might ask me you knowwhat my handicap is now?
So I'm a golfer.
What is your handicap?
Well, my index is like 14 rightnow.
(23:55):
So I'm a little higher.
I should be around a 12, butI'm working on it, it's coming
down, I am getting my two.
You know, the thing is, sinceI've retired, being able to play
through the winter, whetherit's out here in California we
come out here a couple times ayear or just at home.
I mean, if it's 45 degrees andsunny, cause I walk, you know
we'll play.
It's helped, you know it's comedown.
(24:18):
But I think the question, youknow, probably would have been
something along the lines ofmaybe getting deeper into my
political experience, justbecause that was such an
important.
I know that I said it was mygrad school and just things I
learned there?
Um, uh, you know what'slearning out of those five years
?
And if you asked me thatquestion, uh, I, I probably
would have said, um, I learnedthe importance of a consistent
(24:42):
and focused message.
Yeah, um, because you, you know, in when you're working for a
politician and in a politicalenvironment, and even in a law
and election years, every day isa political environment.
You know when you're in that,um, you have, yeah, now
governor's got a bigger, he'sgot a bigger megaphone, you know
(25:04):
, than than say, you know thelegislature or whatever.
So you've got that advantage,but you've still got to be able
to make sure that, um, you havea simple message, and and you
have, and everybody's on thesame page.
So, single, single message,simple focus, um and uh, so that
(25:25):
everybody in the organizationknows that if on this topic, on
topic A, here's what ourposition is, and you don't, you
don't stray from that, and youknow you, all you do is turn on
the Sunday shows and see thathappen all the time.
And you also see it happen whenthey're not staying on message
and they float all over theplace and and all of a sudden,
(25:46):
what they intended tocommunicate is lost.
And so that I took that intothe world of corporate and
nonprofit PR and helped.
We helped our clientsunderstand that.
You know, you may want to sayseven things about your new
product, but let's say two.
Let's focus on two.
So, what are the most importantthings?
Because, yeah, you may have allthese great well, we got, but
(26:08):
it's good it does.
27 great things, wonderful.
Give me one, give me thebiggest one, and let's start
there and let's convince peopleabout that one and then you get
them in the door, then you cantell them about some other stuff
.
And that was the hardest thingto convince clients of is is to
stay focused, because they wantto.
You know, it's like JamesCarville said about Bill Clinton
.
He asked Bill Clinton what timeit is.
(26:29):
He not only tells you what thewatch looks like, but he tells
you about the Swiss village thatthe watch was made in.
And I love that quote becauseit's so true.
And that's the biggest challengewith clients has always been
you don't need to say everything.
And you don't want to sayeverything, right.
I tell you what thatextrapolates to all sorts of
(26:50):
things, right?
Especially small businessowners.
I will say that if you cansolve one critical problem for a
very small group.
That small group is replicatedall over the marketplaces you
need and don't come off thatpoint, stay on it and as your
brand brand grows, you have moreservices.
You still should be around acore thing you do, like even
(27:12):
nike, just do it, get out thereand exercise.
There's a bunch of shit youcould do to go exercise better,
right, and really it's reallythat simple.
And I think from a politicalthing, one thing I think I've
learned from and I don't wedon't discuss politics typically
here too much just because thenegative connotation of it,
though I think it's very realentrepreneurship and business
and I've blown away when you dosomething near there on like den
(27:34):
, and people are like why isthis political shit on here?
I'm like who's elected affectsentrepreneurship.
I don't know if you guys knowthat it really does right up,
but what I've found is if peopleare more, uh, positively
polarizing versus maybe thenegative polarizing that you see
in politics and what I mean bythat is we're talking about
entrepreneurship why it's abetter path for a lot of people
(27:55):
is go into someone's feed thatsays, build a career, get a
great resume, and respectfullydisagree when you do that same
effect in your own content onpoint messaging, like the focus
messaging, and you create afriction that's positive but
still a friction, and it worksreally well on social media to
get noticed in a way that itjust it takes all the people who
(28:17):
are like, yeah, I'd rather justgo that guy's route, but they
don't hate either of you, right?
So I like the fact you camefrom that and you're spot on.
I'd even say don't even focuson your product, that's great.
Focus on the problem, right,period, exactly.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a.
Simply it's like oh, we do 10x,well, we do 11.
(28:38):
Right, 7 and a half, 6.
And abs, like AJ, don't focuson your feature.
What does it do?
If we give you apps fast, allright, great.
Nobody goes to the store to buya hammer.
They go to buy something thatthey can hit a nail with and put
something together.
(28:58):
I'll leave you with this Men dogo Sunday to Home Depot just to
walk around, 100%, true.
I've seen my neighbor there.
I'm like why are you in the gassection?
He's like I'm thinking aboutputting a fireplace in next year
.
Yeah, next year Exactly, ormaybe the year after.
Walk with me and look at thetools.
I'm like I do.
I don't know anything aboutfireplaces.
Two hours later, I've still notbought anything.
I've come from Anything.
(29:20):
I've bought rocks that I won'tever use.
I gotta return these.
I'll be back, all right?
Uh, shameless plug time again.
Uh, who should get ahold of you?
How do you want them to do that?
The, the people who who Ireally would love to work with
are the small business owners.
Uh, and and uh, you know how dowe describe some small to
(29:40):
medium sized business owners.
So, business owners.
So, let's say, you know you haveunder 30 employees or something
like that, but again, youprobably don't.
Your resources in terms of yourmarketing stuff are finite and
you don't definitely, and you'redefinitely not thinking about a
crisis.
So, but here's an opportunityfor you to check a big box off
(30:02):
and sleep better at night,because you can put a simple
process in place with five steps, a call crisis track, and you
can do it yourself.
And if you need some extra helpwith it, I would be available
to get on a Zoom like this andhelp you work through it.
But I want you to do it becauseit's important, because
something bad is going to happenif you're not prepared and if
you've got these five steps.
(30:22):
You know your team is.
You understand all the thingsthat can go wrong.
You have a process five steps.
You know your team is.
You understand all the thingsthat can go wrong.
You have a process in place,you know which steps you're
going to take and you havemessages created for each of
those risks and you have someonewho can deliver those messages
in times of trouble.
That's it, that's all you need,and you can do all this
yourself through Crisis Track.
And what's the address?
What's the place?
(30:42):
Right?
Yeah, it's crisistrackcom.
Track is T-R-A-K.
Of course it is.
I'm sure T-R-C-K was taken Plus.
It's just not cool enoughSwenson, not Swanson.
So we got to make it exactlycrisistrackcom.
And again, my LinkedIn profile.
There's all kinds of content onthere which can be helpful to
people just to read in terms ofthings to think about some case
(31:05):
studies.
I'm trying to put stuff upthere, new stuff, you know, a
little bit every week and thenyou can link to crisistrackcom
from there as well.
It could occur to me.
You know, defining the wordcrisis is probably pretty
important and I know it's latein the show to say that, but
putting the wrong content outthere creates a small crisis in
(31:26):
the idea of your brand intomarkets you serve, or an
employee that is on, is an idioton facebook and they work for
you.
I think some small businessesshould probably take the idea
crisis a little bit moreseriously, especially when you
have people you don't.
You know they're out therehaving lives.
Those things matter and it'smaybe does your system kind of
(31:47):
address that lighter therumblings of the earthquake to
come to handle everything and toyour point.
(32:11):
The other thing that it does isone of the things when we did
work with clients on this wouldbe that we want that crisis team
to meet four times a year,every quarter, to do three
things.
One is okay do we have anythinggo wrong in the last three
months and how do we handle it?
What do we learn?
Number two is are there new toyour point?
Are there new rumblings, criseson the horizon, potential
prospective crises on thehorizon that we didn't know
(32:33):
about three months ago, but nowwe do so.
Now we have to go through theprocess again.
We recognize it, we createmessaging and we're ready to go,
and then the third step happens, maybe once a year, where you
put yourself through a littletable, what we call a tabletop
drill where you create ascenario and you put your
organization through a crisissituation with a script that
takes you know it's been abouttwo hours.
(32:55):
Start with a crisis.
20 minutes later, you changesomething.
10 minutes later, you changesomething else.
20 minutes later, you changesomething else.
How does the organization react?
And you kind of you knowpressure test the organization
on whether they understand thisprocess we put in place and are
they using it correctly.
Yeah, that's great.
Listen.
Crisis Track with the TRAK atthe endcom.
(33:15):
Mike, thanks for coming ontoday.
Thanks, thomas, I reallyenjoyed it.
A good conversation, appreciateit and listen.
Anyone who's made it to thispoint in the show you rock.
Get out there, go cut a tie tosomething.
Hold me back and define thatsuccess for yourself first,
because if you don't, you won'thave the spark to continue.
You will be chasing someoneelse's dream and you really
won't know what ties are holdingyou back from what, because
you're not chasing any value toyourself.
(33:36):
Get out there, go makesomething happen.
Welcome to the Cut the Tide podcast.
Hello, I am your host, thomasHelfrich.
I'm on a mission to help youcut the tide of whatever it is
holding you back from success,and if you've been here before,
you know that you've got todefine that success yourself.
If you don't, you're chasingsomeone else's dream, and today
I'm joined by Mike Swenson or isit Samson Knight?
Remember Dumb and Dumber MarySwanson?
(00:20):
Yeah, mike, mary Swanson, yeah,mike.
That's it.
It's a marketing trick torepeat your name over and over
Mike Swenson, s-w-e-n.
Mike, how are you?
I'm great.
I'm doing great Good to be onThomas.
I appreciate the opportunity tobe with you.
Listen, I'm excited to hearyour ties that you had to cut.
(00:52):
Why don't you start, though,with who you are, where you're
located and what it is you do?
I'm in a suburb of Kansas CityOverland Park, kansas and I'm
retired now, but I started outas a broadcast journalist.
I was press secretary to agovernor in Kansas for five
years, and then I started a PRfirm in Kansas City in the late
80s and ran it until I retiredat the end of 2020 and passed
the baton, but one of the thingswe'll talk about today is one
of the things that we created.
There was a process calledCrisis Track.
(01:13):
So that's who I am.
My wife and I have four kidsand eight grandkids, so we keep
busy.
That is busy, all right, ok, sobefore we begin, I always like
to give the ADHD-er out theresomething to look at, because
they can't listen and payattention just by listening.
So you got to be playing withsomething.
Give them the one link addressthat they should check out so
they can stalk you properlywhile you're talking.
(01:33):
I would say go to my LinkedInprofile first, because I got a
lot of crisis content on there.
Mike Swenson one on LinkedInGot it, mike Swenson one and
they can link.
They can link to the crisistrack website from there.
Beautiful, um, all right.
Yeah, I've been to something.
For me, though, um, you know, Iusually ask what the kind of
(01:54):
unique differences between youand a commoditized type of
business Like there's lots ofyours sounds just unique by
itself.
Can you peel the layer back alittle bit about what you mean
by what you do?
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, the most important thingwe did as a PR firm for our
clients was crisiscommunications, and we created
in the early 90s, along with oneof our first clients a process
(02:15):
to simplify crisis management,because I would visit with
clients who had three notebooksup on the shelf about crisis and
said when's the last time youread it?
You got to blow the dust off.
Let's get down to brass tacks.
We have five steps and it'ssimple.
It's simple and we created a.
I've created some videos thatsmall businesses can do it on
their own now.
(02:35):
So it's it's simple approachand they should be doing it,
because bad things are going tohappen.
Yeah, and and and.
Crisis could be, you know, acold play concert.
Um, could be a cold playconcert.
To be fair, I don't thinkthat's newsworthy and I and I it
.
That's, it's memes, but it'slike shareholders and their
families can have an issue and Ibet the shareholders don't
(02:56):
actually care as long as theymake money.
It's, yeah, it's the.
It's the worst example.
It's the worst example of whatsocial media does to a story.
It is.
The truth is, it's probably themost genius marketing ploy ever
.
It's like we did that.
Who'd ever heard of Astronomeruntil this?
Right?
Or Coldplay anymore, for thatmatter.
That's true.
(03:16):
They're selling albums likecrazy.
Now that's going to make thecut.
Just so you know, all right,before we get into your journey.
How do you define success?
I've always lived by a mantraof there is any communication
without a strategy is a lostopportunity, and what I mean by
(03:37):
that is it's easy to get up andsay stuff and get in front of
media or key audiences and justsay a bunch of stuff, but what's
behind it?
The moment I opened my mouth?
I hope that I backed it up withsome kind of action that's
going to take place and allow,allow people to to not just hear
what I say but understand whatI say and act on it, and I think
(03:58):
that's, to me, the mostimportant part of communication.
Yeah, and, and I, and I thinkyou know as you get into your
journey here, identify, maybeyou know obviously, how'd you
get to here, where you are, andwhat's been the biggest you know
metaphor tie for you to cut toachieve that success.
I want to be sports was how Istarted it and went to Kansas
(04:24):
University, went to the J schooland and proceeded to work in
public radio and then commercial.
That was absolutely a blast andum, but uh, my family has
(04:53):
always been involved in politicsin Kansas and so I was covering
the state house, uh, coveringthe legislature and the governor
.
And, uh, one day in the Capitol, um, the governor's press
secretary walked up to me andsaid hey, I want to talk to you
a minute.
He said my assistant is leaving.
Don Smith is his name, you know, I knew Don really well.
Don's leaving and I'd like youto be come on board as our
assistant press secretary.
So I I plan on being the nextDan Rather, you know.
(05:18):
And so I had a big decision tomake and I loved what I was
doing and I was just getting,you know, kind of rolling, and I
don't think I was going to beat that station for the rest of
my life, but who knows where wewould have gone.
But I went home, we talkedabout it and I just felt like it
was a huge opportunity Icouldn't pass up.
So I cut the tie of somethingI'd wanted to do since I was 12
(05:40):
years old and jumped to theother side, as they say in the
business.
I was 12 years old and jumpedto the other side, as they say
in the business.
I went from being in the mediato trying to convince the media
to say wonderful things aboutthe guy I was working for, and
it truly is a big change.
I took two weeks off butliterally I walked in the
Capitol two weeks later in awhole different role with all
the same people I've beendealing with or working with all
(06:02):
that time and it worked out.
It became the.
I always refer to those fiveyears as my graduate school Um
and and because I learned somuch and that's where my really
understanding of how to managethings when they go wrong were,
you know, occurred.
Because you know, in apolitical environment you're
going to have you have stuffhappen all the time, every day,
(06:24):
different levels of importanceor meaning, but still you got to
deal with stuff all the time.
So that was good and that setme on the way.
And then, when the governor Iworked for was term limited, I
worked on another campaign.
That one was not successful,and that's when I went to Kansas
City and started in the PR bizand that worked out a little
better.
So that was definitely theabsolute moment where my life
(06:48):
went down a different road.
Dive into when you started.
That's another shift too,because it's going from you know
where's my next check comingfrom to I need to go kill
something to eat it.
Talk about, I mean, that's alsoa tie.
That obviously worked out.
But in the moment, how did youdeal with that switchback or
(07:08):
switch to-.
Yeah, well, like I said, Iworked on this other campaign, a
governor's race it was a guywho's our lieutenant governor
and we lost in a very closeelection, one that I've replayed
with a couple of people timeand time again over the years.
But yeah, I literally woke upthe day after election knowing I
had 75 days and the governorthat I'd been working for put me
(07:32):
back on staff to help him kindof close things out.
So I had some work to do, butbasically he gave me a lifeline
to keep the income going until Icould get it.
And so then I went through alot of.
I actually thought aboutbroadcasting.
I thought, well, okay, I couldgo back into broadcasting.
I've done news, I've doneproduction.
I go back in and hold my noseand go do some sales.
(07:55):
You know, because I, you know Iwas a journalist but I'm going
to go sell TV time to the localgrocery store.
But I'll do it, I'll thinkabout doing it, because if I do
that then I can get on amanagement track and go down the
road and be in broadcasting therest of my life.
So I actually entertained thatand talked to a couple people.
But then I got a call One ofthose things you get out of the
blue from a woman who'd been onthe governor's staff and she was
(08:19):
now in Kansas City and she said, hey, there's this PR firm in
Kansas City that's looking foran account executive.
I said, okay, what the heck,I'll try.
So I called and ended upworking with this guy.
I got hired by a gentlemannamed Howard Boasberg who was a
tremendous PR legend in KansasCity.
Many of us he's got the coach,one of the great coaching trees,
(08:40):
because I went on and startedanother firm and I went with him
a year.
Interesting story.
So I'm going in for my lastinterview with him on this, and
this is 1987, okay, or late at1986.
And he's offered me the job andhe says it's account executive,
the salary is $28,000 andhere's your benefits.
(09:02):
I said, well, that's great,howard, I appreciate the offer
and I'm really interested in it,but I'm making $35,000 a year
right now.
And he said I understand, mike,this job pays 28.
And again, a little cut the tiemoment, because 7,000 bucks in
1986, I mean that was a you knowwhat.
I'm not quick with math, butthat's a fourth of my revenue
(09:26):
coming in and that's on toprevenue at that time too.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
So a small cut the tie moment.
But it didn't take me long torealize that's the thing to do
and that's what set me on thepath that you know.
A year later, I went to Barkleyand Evergreengreen and started
the PR for an external ad agencythere.
So, yeah, I think one of thethings that take away I try to
(09:47):
find sometimes reflectivemoments is the you don't get
those opportunities if you'rekind of unaffected or an asshole
or whatever.
You know, asshole is probablyactually a mutually exclusive
thing, but if you don't playnice within the communities of
what you've worked in, you couldbe edge, you can be your person
, but as long as you, it mayaffect your next thing, there's
(10:13):
no doubt it does.
There's no doubt it does, andthat's why I'm saying I
literally took two weeks offbetween being a reporter to
being convincing reporters to dothat, and I'm glad I took those
two weeks.
At some point I had to walk inthe door but all of a sudden I'm
working.
These are colleagues, the mediahad been my colleagues and we
all covered the same stuff.
And yes, we all covered thesame stuff and and yes, we were
(10:36):
competing against each other,but we all shared in, you know,
and and so it was.
It was a, it was a process tokind of realize that I'm sitting
behind the desk now instead ofon the other side of the desk
asking the questions.
Um and it.
It took a little bit and I wasassistant press secretary, so I
wasn't garnering the everydaybarrage that the press secretary
(10:57):
was.
But after the governor wasreelected in 82 and I was
involved in that campaign, I wasa blast working on a campaign
like that and I became presssecretary for the second term.
What's your probably mostimpactful moment of your career?
Oh, that's hard to pick one,but I would say I'm going to say
(11:25):
something that really made adifference.
So when I went to Barkley andEvergreen to start the PR firm
there, there'd been another guythere that had been trying to
start a PR firm and hadn'tworked out, and the founder of
Barkley and Evergreen to startthe PR firm there, there'd been
another guy there that had beentrying to start a PR firm and
hadn't worked out, and thefounder of Barkley and Evergreen
, a guy by the name of BillFromm.
Um, and those two didn't reallyget along.
And so, and Bill Fromm had nothired me, the other guy had
brought me over.
(11:46):
So, uh, I sat down with Bill, sothis was like December, in
December of 88.
And he said look, I don't knowyou that well, but I've seen you
, you've been here a year andyou brought in some business.
I brought in some revenue andwe need a PR firm and I want you
to do it.
You got to do two things for me, though.
(12:07):
I said great, what are those?
One, we got to make money.
And two, because Bill is aclassic entrepreneur, bill said
I want you to go get half yourbusiness on your own.
Now, we, we, we were providingPR for the advertising, his
existing advertising clients,but he wanted to see can we
start a business?
And that was truly an impactfulmoment because 32 years later,
(12:31):
you know it worked and and it'sgoing today.
I passed the baton to a womanwho's worked with me for 20
years and she's carrying on andthat agency I walked in Barkley
and Evergreen.
It was 45 people in the wholeagency.
Today there are 900 and theyhave offices in six cities and
so, and that that's the wholecompany, and so we went out.
So at the end of the first year, boom, we'd made money and we
(12:55):
had created a program that gotus into several businesses right
away and got us more than halfour revenue on our own, and we
maintained that all the waythrough.
Sometimes it was even as muchas 60% of our revenue was
PR-only clients.
So that became a focus for me.
It's like that was always.
My North star is 50, 50 at least.
(13:16):
Well, and it's, it's uh, I meanjust from a business model,
right, like if you could do that, if you're half the cost,
you're doing pretty good, right,right, and you're bringing,
you're bringing in revenue thatthat's not going to come in any
other way, you know it's notgoing to come through the ad
agency.
So, right, and there's so many,there's so many ad agencies
that don't do that.
They, they have PR as a service, they don't have it as a as a
(13:37):
business.
And there there are greatagencies in Kansas city where
you know, uh, I actually had oneguy come and approach me about
you know, I'd been at Barkleyfor a while and had been, you
know we'd had some good successand he approached me about
coming on board to his agencyand he said, well, you know,
what would it take?
I said, well, I said I reallylike what I'm doing and I said I
guess it would take a you know,this kind of car and this kind
(13:59):
of this and this kind of thatand this much money.
And he goes really, I said,yeah, I'm really happy and I
didn't have all those things.
But I thought, you know, ifhe's asking, I'm going in there
in a Florida home, yeah, exactly, you pay for and insure, yeah,
for the next 50 years, or youhave to wash mine topless every
(14:21):
week.
Either way, it's got to be aguy.
When you say that statement,exactly, that's going to make
the cut too, by the way.
So, yeah, well, no, listen.
So I think you know, if Ireflect back to right like, do
you have the systems in place todo this, as opposed to just
(14:43):
send a DM with nothing around it?
We, we've become way moresuccessful because people are
like, yeah, we get it, like wetry that whole, this tech or
this tech.
It never seems to work.
And there's, there's arealization when you, when you
say, well, you need to build a,basically a business around your
whatever that is, it needs togenerate money.
We took out a pro like hey, ifwe're doing it with you, it's
got to make money.
(15:03):
Like it's not like hey, great.
In a similar way, where it's ano brainer to start and as you
make money, we make more money.
It's like hey, we'll, we'll doit, attribution style, as we get
to know and trust you and soyeah, it's.
I love that because if you havethat, that mindset, then you're
, you're both in growth mode.
Yeah, I mean it sets you on a,on a, set us on a path who are
(15:32):
connected.
Mostly, it's like PR is justgoing to be a service to the and
the ad agency will run theaccount and you, you provide
this and this.
It's like I would never havebeen interested in that.
That wouldn't.
If that was what I had beendoing, I doubt I would have been
there 32 years because I wouldhave lost interest.
So what's the tie that you'restruggling to cut right now?
Modern day for yourself?
Cut right now modern day foryourself.
(15:56):
Um, well, I've, I've, uh, youknow the the.
Another impactful moment at theagency was when we were hired by
a, a, a large um and growing uhfast food chain in the early
nineties and she, the head of PR, approached me early on.
She said I'm really worried.
We're growing so fast.
I don't think we are ready todeal if something goes wrong.
When something goes wrong andin the food business things are
(16:19):
going to go wrong it takes oneteenager at one drive-in
restaurant to do somethingstupid and it becomes a national
brand crisis.
And so she brought her team inand we sat in a room for three
days that we created this crisistrack and the mindset I told
you know our, our, our missionearly on was what's the simple,
what are the fewest stepspossible that we got to put
(16:41):
together to make this thing work?
And, um, so that became animpactful moment.
So, okay, so I'm cutting the tienow, in a sense that I've
always I always had in mycontract whenever I left, uh
Barkley, that I could takeCrisis Track, the process and
the name with me.
They will still use it and theydo use it, but I could take it
with me and use it as well.
(17:01):
So it sat there for a long time.
I mean I retired at the end of2020.
I was consulting.
I got really busy during COVIDbecause I had a couple clients
hire me that were COVID-specific.
So I'm out there just on my own, which is a great thing.
By the way, that is not a tie Iwant to cut.
I only can manage me now.
So I'm, you know.
Somebody asked me are you goingto hire people?
(17:25):
I said no, I'm not going tohire anybody, I'm just it's me
now.
So, but cutting I don't know ifit's cutting the tie so much as
just me getting off my you know.
And finally, about a year ago, Ifinally kind of worked with
some people to help putsomething together, create a
website and take crisis trackand begin to sell it and get it
out there and offer it.
And so I I'm I don't know ifit's cutting the tie or but it's
(17:46):
just been kind of like pushingmyself.
You want to do this, so get outthere and do it.
And sitting here today with youis an important part of just
getting the message out thatwe've got a very easy, we've got
a simple way.
And there's too many companies,thomas, way too many companies
and we work with nonprofits, tootoo many organizations that
just don't think they need toworry about a crisis until it
(18:08):
happens, which is the singlebiggest mistake anybody can make
, and we all know that and we'vethere's countless episodes over
time that we know, uh, or youcan tell right away when people
are handling it or not handlingwell, and so what, what we're
offering here is, like you, youknow, you may be a small
business, you can't afford tohave a PR firm, uh, and and.
(18:29):
But here's, here's a processyou can actually take and put in
place yourself and uh.
So I don't know if I'manswering your question, but
that's kind of I've been pushingmyself to.
Finally and finally, I'm reallyon the road and getting it done
, you know, but it's it's addedlike let's go, you're going to
do it.
You're not getting younger, youknow, yeah, well, that's the
tiger cutting.
It sounds like right.
(18:49):
I'll try to.
I don't say it right, justcorrect me is is you know you're
, you've had a great career.
You have no interest in sittingaround and golf's fun, right,
and tennis, all those things,but it's uh, yeah, yeah, it's
not enough, um, for somebody whois in the hunt, loves the game
and mind is sharp.
That's where you want to be,and I don't know about you.
(19:10):
I'm 49, but I interact with lotsof people that are like 60s,
65s, 70s, that are stillentrepreneurs, because they said
this one thing specifically,which is I'm never retiring
because of this.
They said, every one of myfriends that's retired has died
or is miserable.
Yeah, yeah, I know them too.
Like realization of a falsedream.
They were sold um, and they'relike and and and.
(19:33):
And.
I was like, oh my god, they'relike, so you stay active.
I don't even care if thisbusiness like makes a million or
just puts 200 extra on my table.
It's something for me to focuson.
You know, you get on and I'minterested.
So you know one of the questionsI would ask if you were, if you
, if I was you, though, it wouldmake sense because you have
more experience.
But I would say, is that sparkstrong enough to keep you going?
(19:53):
Because if you can't, usuallysparks get you going right away.
So if you got to find it, thequestion I have for you is is it
the right spark long-term?
Are you hanging on?
You really want to do a podcastor something like in sports or
something?
Get hanging on.
You really want to do a podcastor something like in sports, or
something to get back on theair?
Are you visiting the childhooddream?
No, it's, it's uh, this isgreat, and and I started.
(20:14):
I also I'm going to be 70 inSeptember, okay, and I know the
people are talking about I havefriends who, yeah, they just
have it.
And I love golf.
I play twice a week.
That's all I want to play andwe play.
We play in three and a halfhours.
We walk, you know we got a.
You know got a group of youknow six or eight of us that we,
you know, end up, but it'stwice a week.
That's all I want I.
(20:35):
But I know people that are outthere every day and I'm going.
I don't want to do that.
No, this is the spark because itneeded to be lit and I finally,
like I said, I got, and part ofit, part of it was I was busy
with consulting.
I had clients I was doing stuffwith on general traditional PR
stuff, always some little crisisthings mixed in.
(20:56):
But, um, but no, this is it.
I'm excited and to me,podcasting is uh, this gives me
back to Broadway.
This is, this is.
This is the new talk shows, anda buddy and I, a guy who owned
an agency, can't say we starteda podcast in Kansas city called
Kansas city marketing legends.
We're in our second season.
It's fun?
We're not, you know.
Everybody says how are you goingto monetize it?
(21:17):
I go we're monetizing it byevolution Audio gets, lets us
produce, produces everything forfree.
We got a creative guy who doesour look and feel and runs our
website, and we've got othersponsors that are helping us
promote it.
That's how we monetize, so wedon't care about making money,
but it's fun, you know, and sothat's my creative, you know, a
little bit of creative outlet.
So the but crisis track is isthe spark, and I'm I'm on it now
(21:39):
.
Yeah, I love that and that's Imean, that's anybody who's kind
of like the question you alwaysask yourself.
If you can't spark yourself in,you have to ask is that really
where you want to be?
It's an honest question youhave to ask yourself because it
will not be sustainable if it isnot.
If you don't have aself-igniting fusion center in
the middle of that thing, you'regoing to burn out At some point
(21:59):
.
The fuel does run out.
I'm spending time on crisistrack every day, including
weekends.
I spend a few hours every day,you know, two or three hours a
day, which is all you need to doJust trying to schedule
podcasts, doing some work on thewebsite coming up with content
that I put up on LinkedIn andyou know, but I spend time on it
every day.
Yeah, that's great.
If you could go back in time,when would you go back into your
(22:21):
timeline and what would you dodifferently?
You know you probably get thisanswer a lot.
I wouldn't do anythingdifferently, but I'll answer
your question because and youkind of alluded to it a second
ago when you asked me about wasthis really my spark, or was
broadcasting?
I mean I don't, I'll never knowhow far I would have gotten or
(22:44):
where, what the broadcastingwould have taken me to if I'd
stayed, if I'd become an infront of the camera reporter or
if I'd been a behind the scenes.
I mean, as I learned how todirect, I was dreaming about oh
my God, I would love to be thedirector of a big sporting event
, a Super Bowl, a World Series,where you got 25, 30 cameras.
(23:04):
So I'll never know, because Ididn't take that road.
So that would be the only placewhere I'd say you know, yeah, I
I would think about if Idecided, if I didn't do what I
did, I'd go back and stay inbroadcasting and see where it
took me.
Um, and that's because that wasthe big cut, the tie moment.
Yeah, you know, it's everything.
I have an idea that everythinghappens for you, which is hard
(23:31):
to keep your mindset when thingsare happening to you, and so
it's the reflective moments.
But you don't seem unhappy,which is beautiful.
There was a question probably Ishould ask today, though I
didn't.
What would that question havebeen?
Oh, let's see.
Well, you might ask me you knowwhat my handicap is now?
So I'm a golfer.
What is your handicap?
Well, my index is like 14 rightnow.
(23:55):
So I'm a little higher.
I should be around a 12, butI'm working on it, it's coming
down, I am getting my two.
You know, the thing is, sinceI've retired, being able to play
through the winter, whetherit's out here in California we
come out here a couple times ayear or just at home.
I mean, if it's 45 degrees andsunny, cause I walk, you know
we'll play.
It's helped, you know it's comedown.
(24:18):
But I think the question, youknow, probably would have been
something along the lines ofmaybe getting deeper into my
political experience, justbecause that was such an
important.
I know that I said it was mygrad school and just things I
learned there?
Um, uh, you know what'slearning out of those five years
?
And if you asked me thatquestion, uh, I, I probably
would have said, um, I learnedthe importance of a consistent
(24:42):
and focused message.
Yeah, um, because you, you know, in when you're working for a
politician and in a politicalenvironment, and even in a law
and election years, every day isa political environment.
You know when you're in that,um, you have, yeah, now
governor's got a bigger, he'sgot a bigger megaphone, you know
(25:04):
, than than say, you know thelegislature or whatever.
So you've got that advantage,but you've still got to be able
to make sure that, um, you havea simple message, and and you
have, and everybody's on thesame page.
So, single, single message,simple focus, um and uh, so that
(25:25):
everybody in the organizationknows that if on this topic, on
topic A, here's what ourposition is, and you don't, you
don't stray from that, and youknow you, all you do is turn on
the Sunday shows and see thathappen all the time.
And you also see it happen whenthey're not staying on message
and they float all over theplace and and all of a sudden,
(25:46):
what they intended tocommunicate is lost.
And so that I took that intothe world of corporate and
nonprofit PR and helped.
We helped our clientsunderstand that.
You know, you may want to sayseven things about your new
product, but let's say two.
Let's focus on two.
So, what are the most importantthings?
Because, yeah, you may have allthese great well, we got, but
(26:08):
it's good it does.
27 great things, wonderful.
Give me one, give me thebiggest one, and let's start
there and let's convince peopleabout that one and then you get
them in the door, then you cantell them about some other stuff
.
And that was the hardest thingto convince clients of is is to
stay focused, because they wantto.
You know, it's like JamesCarville said about Bill Clinton
.
He asked Bill Clinton what timeit is.
(26:29):
He not only tells you what thewatch looks like, but he tells
you about the Swiss village thatthe watch was made in.
And I love that quote becauseit's so true.
And that's the biggest challengewith clients has always been
you don't need to say everything.
And you don't want to sayeverything, right.
I tell you what thatextrapolates to all sorts of
(26:50):
things, right?
Especially small businessowners.
I will say that if you cansolve one critical problem for a
very small group.
That small group is replicatedall over the marketplaces you
need and don't come off thatpoint, stay on it and as your
brand brand grows, you have moreservices.
You still should be around acore thing you do, like even
(27:12):
nike, just do it, get out thereand exercise.
There's a bunch of shit youcould do to go exercise better,
right, and really it's reallythat simple.
And I think from a politicalthing, one thing I think I've
learned from and I don't wedon't discuss politics typically
here too much just because thenegative connotation of it,
though I think it's very realentrepreneurship and business
and I've blown away when you dosomething near there on like den
(27:34):
, and people are like why isthis political shit on here?
I'm like who's elected affectsentrepreneurship.
I don't know if you guys knowthat it really does right up,
but what I've found is if peopleare more, uh, positively
polarizing versus maybe thenegative polarizing that you see
in politics and what I mean bythat is we're talking about
entrepreneurship why it's abetter path for a lot of people
(27:55):
is go into someone's feed thatsays, build a career, get a
great resume, and respectfullydisagree when you do that same
effect in your own content onpoint messaging, like the focus
messaging, and you create afriction that's positive but
still a friction, and it worksreally well on social media to
get noticed in a way that itjust it takes all the people who
(28:17):
are like, yeah, I'd rather justgo that guy's route, but they
don't hate either of you, right?
So I like the fact you camefrom that and you're spot on.
I'd even say don't even focuson your product, that's great.
Focus on the problem, right,period, exactly.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a.
Simply it's like oh, we do 10x,well, we do 11.
(28:38):
Right, 7 and a half, 6.
And abs, like AJ, don't focuson your feature.
What does it do?
If we give you apps fast, allright, great.
Nobody goes to the store to buya hammer.
They go to buy something thatthey can hit a nail with and put
something together.
(28:58):
I'll leave you with this Men dogo Sunday to Home Depot just to
walk around, 100%, true.
I've seen my neighbor there.
I'm like why are you in the gassection?
He's like I'm thinking aboutputting a fireplace in next year
.
Yeah, next year Exactly, ormaybe the year after.
Walk with me and look at thetools.
I'm like I do.
I don't know anything aboutfireplaces.
Two hours later, I've still notbought anything.
I've come from Anything.
(29:20):
I've bought rocks that I won'tever use.
I gotta return these.
I'll be back, all right?
Uh, shameless plug time again.
Uh, who should get ahold of you?
How do you want them to do that?
The, the people who who Ireally would love to work with
are the small business owners.
Uh, and and uh, you know how dowe describe some small to
(29:40):
medium sized business owners.
So, business owners.
So, let's say, you know you haveunder 30 employees or something
like that, but again, youprobably don't.
Your resources in terms of yourmarketing stuff are finite and
you don't definitely, and you'redefinitely not thinking about a
crisis.
So, but here's an opportunityfor you to check a big box off
(30:02):
and sleep better at night,because you can put a simple
process in place with five steps, a call crisis track, and you
can do it yourself.
And if you need some extra helpwith it, I would be available
to get on a Zoom like this andhelp you work through it.
But I want you to do it becauseit's important, because
something bad is going to happenif you're not prepared and if
you've got these five steps.
(30:22):
You know your team is.
You understand all the thingsthat can go wrong.
You have a process five steps.
You know your team is.
You understand all the thingsthat can go wrong.
You have a process in place,you know which steps you're
going to take and you havemessages created for each of
those risks and you have someonewho can deliver those messages
in times of trouble.
That's it, that's all you need,and you can do all this
yourself through Crisis Track.
And what's the address?
What's the place?
(30:42):
Right?
Yeah, it's crisistrackcom.
Track is T-R-A-K.
Of course it is.
I'm sure T-R-C-K was taken Plus.
It's just not cool enoughSwenson, not Swanson.
So we got to make it exactlycrisistrackcom.
And again, my LinkedIn profile.
There's all kinds of content onthere which can be helpful to
people just to read in terms ofthings to think about some case
(31:05):
studies.
I'm trying to put stuff upthere, new stuff, you know, a
little bit every week and thenyou can link to crisistrackcom
from there as well.
It could occur to me.
You know, defining the wordcrisis is probably pretty
important and I know it's latein the show to say that, but
putting the wrong content outthere creates a small crisis in
(31:26):
the idea of your brand intomarkets you serve, or an
employee that is on, is an idioton facebook and they work for
you.
I think some small businessesshould probably take the idea
crisis a little bit moreseriously, especially when you
have people you don't.
You know they're out therehaving lives.
Those things matter and it'smaybe does your system kind of
(31:47):
address that lighter therumblings of the earthquake to
come to handle everything and toyour point.
(32:11):
The other thing that it does isone of the things when we did
work with clients on this wouldbe that we want that crisis team
to meet four times a year,every quarter, to do three
things.
One is okay do we have anythinggo wrong in the last three
months and how do we handle it?
What do we learn?
Number two is are there new toyour point?
Are there new rumblings, criseson the horizon, potential
prospective crises on thehorizon that we didn't know
(32:33):
about three months ago, but nowwe do so.
Now we have to go through theprocess again.
We recognize it, we createmessaging and we're ready to go,
and then the third step happens, maybe once a year, where you
put yourself through a littletable, what we call a tabletop
drill where you create ascenario and you put your
organization through a crisissituation with a script that
takes you know it's been abouttwo hours.
(32:55):
Start with a crisis.
20 minutes later, you changesomething.
10 minutes later, you changesomething else.
20 minutes later, you changesomething else.
How does the organization react?
And you kind of you knowpressure test the organization
on whether they understand thisprocess we put in place and are
they using it correctly.
Yeah, that's great.
Listen.
Crisis Track with the TRAK atthe endcom.
(33:15):
Mike, thanks for coming ontoday.
Thanks, thomas, I reallyenjoyed it.
A good conversation, appreciateit and listen.
Anyone who's made it to thispoint in the show you rock.
Get out there, go cut a tie tosomething.
Hold me back and define thatsuccess for yourself first,
because if you don't, you won'thave the spark to continue.
You will be chasing someoneelse's dream and you really
won't know what ties are holdingyou back from what, because
you're not chasing any value toyourself.
(33:36):
Get out there, go makesomething happen.
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