August 21, 2025 • 27 mins
What happens when your creative passion won’t leave you alone, even as you juggle work, consulting, and family responsibilities? In this episode of Cut The Tie, Thomas Helfrich reconnects with Rich Cruz—organizational development consultant, podcaster, and cartoonist—who is turning his lifelong love of art into something bigger than just a side project.
From a career in marketing to organizational psychology consulting, Rich has always carried the dream of being an animator. Now, with the launch of Hermie the HR Crab, he’s blending humor, workplace insights, and storytelling into a brand that goes beyond a comic strip—expanding into workshops, books, animations, and a growing YouTube presence.
About Rich Cruz
Rich Cruz is an organizational development consultant based in Chicago and the creator of Hermie the HR Crab. With a background spanning marketing, communications, and industrial-organizational psychology, he brings a unique mix of creativity and strategy to his work. He co-hosts the Harmonious Workplaces podcast and leads consulting engagements focused on improving culture, leadership, and organizational health. As a member of the National Cartoonists Society, Rich is pursuing his passion for blending art and business through Hermie, using humor to spotlight the challenges and quirks of workplace culture in a lighthearted yet meaningful way.
In this episode, Thomas and Rich discuss:
- The birth of Hermie the HR Crab → Inspired by a simple doodle for his youngest child, Hermie has grown into a cartoon series, a book, and an animated character. Rich shares how Hermie’s antics mirror real workplace dynamics, from leadership flaws to culture struggles.
- Balancing a side hustle with client work → Rich opens up about the challenges of growing a passion brand while managing consulting engagements. He reflects on lessons learned from past business failures, the impact of uncertainty in client work, and why his creative vision keeps him moving forward.
- Using humor to tackle workplace problemsHermie isn’t just for laughs—he’s a teaching tool. Rich describes how humor and cartoons help leaders and teams confront serious organizational issues in a way that is approachable, engaging, and memorable.
Key Takeaways
- Your past setbacks don’t define your future.
- Creativity is a business asset, not a distraction.
- Entertainment can be a tool for solving workplace problems.
- Confidence grows the more you practice it.
- Don’t wait for “perfect timing” to start.
Connect with Rich Cruz
📎 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardjacruz/
🌐 Website: https://www.harmoniousworkplaces.com
🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HarmoniousWorkplaces
Connect with Thomas Helfrich
🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/thelfirch
📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/cutthetie
📎 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomashelfich
🌐 Website: https://www.cutthetie.com
📧 Email: thomas@instantlyrelevant.com
🚀 Instantly Relevant: https://instantlyrelevant.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Cut the Tide podcast.
Hi, I'm your host, thomasHelfrich, and we are on a
mission.
We it's me, I'm on a mission.
I'm going to try to help youcut the tide of whatever it is
holding you back from success,and you got to own your own
success.
You got to define it yourself,otherwise you are chasing
someone else's dream, and todayI'm joined by Mr Rich Cruz,
repeat offender.
He's back on the show.
How you doing, rich.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Thanks, man.
Thanks for having me back.
This is awesome.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Yeah, rich, rich is a it's just guys context has been
on the show.
He's a one of these guys that'slike everybody else out there
in the respect of trying to findwork, is working, has a better
passion.
He's trying to get the sidehustle going.
So this is you like, ah man,I'd rather be doing this thing,
but I got to work to pay bills,but it's hard to find jobs.
This is a good conversation tolisten to because Rich and I had
(00:43):
this and I think it's.
You know, rich isn't famous,I'm not famous, but this is the
most relevant conversation tothe most people on the planet,
at least in the US, who justwant something else besides
waiting to get let go or toldthey're not, they're just
expensive or whatever agents andthings happen.
So, rich, introduce yourselfwhere you are, who you are, and
(01:04):
today I want you to focus onwhat your real passion is in
your side hustle with my familyand, um, I've had a marketing
career, thomas, for most of mylife.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
So, like the whole communication aspect has been,
you know what I, what I liked,what I about what I was doing,
(01:33):
but I went back into.
I went back to school in 2020after some career counseling and
really got into doingorganizational development after
getting a degree in industrialorganizational psychology from
purdue and but none of this, man, none of this is what I wanted
to do for you know I think wetalked about this in the last
podcast was I wanted to be, uh,an animator.
(01:56):
That's what that was, like mygoal.
I went to new chicago for, forart, like who does that?
You know?
I mean a lot of people, I guess,al.
But back in 98, I was one ofeight people that graduated in
that college and I'm reallythankful that I've been able to
(02:20):
use Blendy Arts with businessthroughout my career, but now
doing OD work, it's really comeout in a big way, you know.
So that's yeah, that's why Iwant to talk about it today,
cause I, we, we kind of put outa new book, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, I've started adding this part where it's for
the ADHD year, but I want peopleto be able to stalk you while
you're talking, so they havesomething to do while they're
listening.
Oh yeah, give me the one linkthis is where a lot of people
fall apart One link where theyshould go look right now,
harmoniousworkplacescom.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
You'll find everything there.
You'll find our consultingpractice, you'll find our
podcast, which we just did, our71st episode of this week.
So you'll also find Hermie theHR, hermit Crab, which is the
book that we put out.
Yep, that's us,harmoniousworkplacescom.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
What's the show?
A picture of it for thoselistening and watching.
You have a picture of theermine?
Oh yeah, so it's a character.
This is what's amazing.
I follow Rich on LinkedIn, soI'll give you a different call.
I actually go to Rich Cruz onLinkedIn and you see a crab.
That's him on his stuff.
But I didn't realize for thelongest time.
(03:39):
I thought he was just kind ofreposting stuff and I didn't
realize he was the one makingthat and I interviewed you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't knowwhat happened.
Right, I hear from your watchright now Rich is a his camera's
gone drunk.
I'm all blurry, hold on.
Give me one second, we're goingto upgrade his camera.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
There you go.
It's so crazy, you know.
Thank you, log, that littleglitch you could.
You could see her me.
Just all well and good here.
But anyway, yeah, her me, thehr hermit crab came out of like.
Again, I wanted to be acartoonist.
This is what I wanted to do,man, and I was like I have an
opportunity.
(04:17):
Cheryl volpe, who's our one ofour collaborators, um, she comes
from the entertainment world.
She was in, if anybody knows,mystery science theater 3000.
She was the.
Uh, yeah, I saw the.
I saw the smile come out.
Uh, she was the chief operatingofficer over there for that for
(04:39):
a couple of seasons.
And then ben kleinman, who hasa theater background, right,
he's, we all have this podcast.
And I was like, you know, wegot to do something different.
So I said, you know, I'vealways wanted to draw a cartoon
and I always wanted to dosomething not quite like dilbert
, but you know, in that, in thatvein about the workspace, you
(05:02):
know.
And so harvey came out of outof that because, uh, I, my
littlest kid, who just turned 18, gave me some idea about
drawing a hermit crab, just aprompt, and I did this doodle
and it was like super easy and Iwas like this guy's got legs
(05:23):
Six of them Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So you have a character and you kind of have
some knowledge of this and it'sreally pretty.
I mean, it doesn't look amateurat all.
I mean you see things, ohthey're good, but this is.
It's good To the point whereit's like I had no idea that was
you.
I thought you were justreposting it.
No-transcript, I thought youwere just reposting it because
it was one of your clients orsomething.
And when you say it has legs,it really does.
But now you face the businesspart of being an artist, right.
(05:50):
And so, in the spirit ofcutting the tie, I want you to
first define what success isgoing to look like for this
brand or for this endeavor.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, well, I mean success.
A couple of things.
One is book sales are great butthey're not going to pay the
bills, right?
So one of the ways that we havestarted to use Hermey is doing
organizational development, likeworkshops, so he can come in
and you'll kind of illustratesome of the ridiculousness of
(06:22):
the workplace, if that makessense.
So I just gave a presentationfor a local university and we
brought Hermie into.
You know some of the thingsabout customer service and some
of the pitfalls of it and howpeople act in the workplace and
all that stuff you know.
So he makes it reallyapproachable and we try to make
(06:46):
it so that the characters likewe're not vilifying any
particular you know character orwhatever, but everybody, I
guess, sort of like Marvel,right, everybody has like a
character flaw, right Of somekind, right, so he's at a pet
shop.
It's not an underwater thing,he's in a pet shop.
So we don't exactly know whatthey do.
(07:08):
One of the gags is all thehamsters are running out wheels.
We don't.
The hamsters are complaining.
We don't know why we're runningout wheels.
Their manager, who happens tobe a cat, is like I don't know
why we're running on wheels allin your life to keep them
running on wheels I like.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I like that the cat's not the one being herded here
like a right.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
That's right yes, yeah, it would be very hard to
herd a whole bunch of cats it'sthe cats like.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I gotta herd these other animals.
You know right that do othercats, but this one's.
Yeah, do you have a?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
cartoon that goes with this.
Yes, so on the harmoniousworkplaces website, you'll find
a page for a hermy.
Uh, you could also go to hermyhr crabcom.
Uh, hr is hermy, hr, hermitcrabcom I think both of those
work.
But, uh, if you go there,you'll find a whole bunch of
(08:07):
cartoons.
You'll find some animations, sowe actually have an animated
puppet of Hermit too.
So we just started exploringthat on Zoom, doing some Q&A
sessions and iVoice him.
So, if you ever hear it, thatsounds like this that's Hermit's
voice.
Yeah, so that sounds like this.
That's that's.
That's a Harvey's voice.
Yeah, so that's we.
You know, we just have fun withit.
(08:28):
Um, and it's been getting.
It's been getting some decentviews on YouTube and LinkedIn
and all of that.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, oh, what's the monetization, monetization,
monetization.
God, I'm having troubles.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
The monetization method of those?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Are you going to focus on YouTube, I mean, and
books behind it, because I meanYouTube is a scalable.
I'm reading the question.
I think you should be onYouTube because my kids
endlessly watch stuff, like you.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
You're exactly right, man.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, are you voting New York if you get a YouTube
right?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yep, I get a youtube right.
Yep, I think I actually gotsome of the tips from you on how
you grew, because you grew toremember, you grew to a million
viewers, yeah, yeah, it wastremendous.
So I started putting someadvertisements to boost
especially the hermy stuff, um,you know.
So I get much better views onthat, um, and then after that
(09:23):
the flywheel keeps goingorganically, which is great.
We are coming out with book two.
So we just and the book two andgoing forward.
They're going to be a little,they're going to be like a third
of the size, a third of thelength, right, but just
jam-packed, and the idea is thatwe'll be able to kind of box
(09:46):
set them and put them out faster.
So, self-publishing I'veself-published a few books
before and help some otherpeople do it.
But this little guy was supereasy, you'll go so I I think
your youtube channel right.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I wouldn't run ads.
I think it's a good way to kindof test it, because you're on
the other side.
You're not selling from stage.
Oh, and I think you knowthere's two parts of YouTube.
You either sell from stage as abusiness, so you run ads with
the fun, or a filter.
Um, because typically you're inin the other side, is
entertainment.
You're definitely entertainmentside and if it can be one of
(10:27):
those things that you'rekeywording around kids, this
entertain, like you're justtrying to find that specific
persona type for the kid or theadult, looking for something
that's positive, whatever fortheir kid.
You know, like you're we couldtake that offline, but the point
being is you solve a problemfor somebody by letting them
watch it and it's entertaining,it's positive and whatever else.
You'll make money from the adrevenue in between and that's
very well and you might run anad just to if you had something
that goes to sales.
(10:48):
But anybody out there, if youhave entertainment content, you
don't need to run ads.
You need to get yourentertainment better.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
And more prolifically right.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Well, weekly is fine, because for you, the idea is,
once it's out there, it's like,you know, people still watch the
Simpsons or Spongebob orwhatever else.
Sure, once it's out there, itjust becomes hey, start with you
know, season one, episode one,and like it, just you know.
And if you need, we'll take itoffline, by the way, I'll
(11:19):
introduce people for.
So, as we're discussing this, Ilike to come back to some of
the cut the tie moments.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Right, what's kind of the biggest tie right now that
you're struggling to cut in yourlife?
I think one of the biggest tiesthat I have is my own.
Just to be honest with you, man, I think part of it is like my
own self-confidence and I mean Iknow I can do like what I do
(11:47):
because I do it and my clients.
I've got almost 60 positivereviews on linkedin, you know.
But but moving forward with myown business that way and and I
think I've shared this on thelast podcast like I owned a
business, I owned a storefrontbusiness right right before the
recession.
So that whole thing you knowyou want to talk about.
(12:08):
You know, when you close abusiness and you go bankrupt and
there's foreclosure and allthat stuff, you know it shakes
you up a little bit.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
A lot of it, A lot of it.
The fact that you're stillmarried and it tells that that
person but I'm sure they're likeI know you said to me offline
like I'm not going through thatshit again, that's right.
And it takes you to a new levelof I'm Ubering.
I don't care, we're going toget money in.
Yeah, Not matter how you do it,no matter how we do it, that's
(12:39):
right.
So you're not that.
Just you gotta.
You gotta be tight who it is.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, and I I picked a good one man.
I mean 20, 25 years of marriagenow, um, with a 25 year old.
So put the math together.
But we've known, we knew eachother for like 10 years before
we tied the knot.
So wow, 10 years before we tiedthe knot, so wow.
Yeah, that is not not dating,just just friends, you know
(13:07):
we're not going to get into thatright now.
No, but it's good stuff and thisis.
She a character in me, she isnot a character in here.
We have explored how we're, howwe can bring some of those in
here and at the same time again,I don't want to vilify anybody
or make anybody like oh I got tokeep going with, you know, this
(13:28):
type of thing or whatever.
But there are elements of thepeople that I know that are in
these books.
You know, in this book and inthe we've introduced a few other
new characters, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
but yeah, characters you know.
But yeah, I'm trying toposition everybody who's
listening to become somecharacter that's like the sexy
voice dog or something like hey,I'm the lab.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Oh man, oh baby, I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Just all the other female crabs want to walk me.
Take your dog for a walk.
You should let it.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
You know, I don't know, I don't know how putting
putting putting the plural ofcrabs into romance doesn't seem
to work all that well.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
You got the balance, I think, for a good humor show,
in my opinion, is I thinkSpongeBob is an interesting
example right when I findentertaining and the kids do,
and sometimes it just gets tothe line like, should I let my
kids watch this?
But then I'm like they'll crackand they'll know there's more
there than what the humor was.
All right, all right, so it'swell done.
So I'm offering my voice.
(14:41):
It's that line you got him.
I like to draw a line in thesand and I like to run back on
concrete and jump over that line.
It's like as much power aspossible, maybe even add a
trampoline.
I don't want to be anywherenear the line when I land Right
on Right.
Oh, did I go too far?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, all right.
We did have one time where weauditioned somebody and he was
auditioning for a boss battle,which is the.
He's the same.
He's fighting fish, he's theboss of the.
So he's a little guy.
I've seen a better fish, right,they're a little guy, highly
aggressive, and if you put twoof them in the in a tank
(15:19):
together they'll kill each other, but he's just a little ball of
of anger sometimes, right, um.
So I, they'll kill each other,but he's just a little ball of
of anger sometimes, right, um.
So I had somebody who came into audition and again, I want to
make these characters sothey're not completely vilified,
right and he started swearingand having to try to smoke a
cigar and stuff like that.
I'm like this is not, it's gotto be more approachable.
(15:40):
So I ended up doing I had totake it over that voice for now,
but I do need to find somebodyto do that.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I won't guess.
I mean, that's a script line.
We'll talk it along Um so um inreal world.
You know, before you get thisgoing, you're you're trying to
still find work and you'retrying to, you know, get gigs.
Uh, talk about the struggle alittle you're going with with
that Cause, because I think it'srelevant to lots of people.
Understand that.
You know, I'm an entrepreneurat heart but I still got to.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yep, we still.
I mean, I mean, don't get mewrong, I still have clients.
I'm still, you know, I'm stillworking with several different
organizations.
You know, in my consulting gigI'm kind of between like bigger
projects.
I had a bigger project thatended in earlier this year and
I'm trying to get into more ofthat stuff.
(16:29):
Working in the manufacturingspace, I think there's a ton of
opportunity right now with newplants being built and
particularly being in theChicago area, there's a lot of
like smaller manufacturingcompanies and a big focus on
their ability to drive theeconomy.
So as they do that, they'regoing to have people problems
(16:53):
that I've uncovered that withsome of the clients I've already
been working with.
But right now there's also a lotof uncertainty and we actually
talk about this on our podcast,right when uh it.
You know, when you haveuncertainty, what happens is
like that that fight, flight, uh, freeze or fawn um uh reaction
(17:19):
happens right, the reptilianbrain's like I either have to
run away from this or I need ahold.
And it seems like there's a lotof that going on in hiring,
whether it's hiring a solutionprovider like us or even hiring
new people on their team.
So that's one of the things wehave to get over, you know, and
(17:39):
I think a big part of that isacknowledging some of that you
know and asking more questionsabout hey, why isn't this
working?
Or what have you started, whathave you tried to do?
And I'm finding that likeleveraging some of those
open-ended questions, like Idon't know if you're familiar
with Chris Voss, former FBIagent, that was about the
(18:02):
difference.
Yeah, those open-endedquestions can really start the
conversation and keep it going.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
That doesn't work for you.
No, that's what he says.
Oh, yeah, that's not going towork for me.
Yeah, that's right.
I've been doing this, by theway, occasionally.
It's fun to drill into atangent.
If you don't know, this bookNever Split the Difference.
Listen to it.
Amazing, it's just a greatstory.
I'm doing this.
(18:33):
I'm going to buy a car nextsummer because I't like new cars
.
Just give me a new one.
And so I'm already hagglingwith dealers now to see what I
can do to push them, and I haveliterally written back that
doesn't work for me.
Sure, they're just coming backwith new offers.
And then they're like well,what can we do?
I'm like you know, they wentlike we age different car.
(18:54):
I'm like, yeah, but thatdoesn't work Right.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Or or it's so much about it.
And the one I really love ishow am I supposed to do that?
Right, Right, Like, how am Isupposed to do that?
That's as like well, well, howabout?
What do you mean?
How are you supposed toquestion?
(19:18):
Or, I'll go take that back tomy manager.
You know it's like oh yeah,that wrote that it really does
work well, exactly, and and soyeah, or stuff like, um, would
it be ridiculous if we, we?
Speaker 1 (19:28):
explored this.
I do this with my kids, andspecifically the ones who can't
be there.
It has to be their idea and I'dbe like would?
And I'd be like, would you beopen?
Would you?
You know, would you consider ifyou'd be open?
Would you?
Would you open to give me anidea on this?
And it's amazing how well thatworks.
Um, cause, then they own it.
And then I see, I told you, I'mlike, right, uh, all right, let
(19:54):
me ask him, when it comes toyour book specifically yes, and
your, your Hermie, excuse me, um, what's maybe the one thing?
If you were to go back in yourtimeline in life, you would do
different around that.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Oh man, I would have started it.
I would have started it yearsago, like, if I would have, I
mean, had had a thought thatthis is going gonna be as well
received as he was, you know.
Um, so that's one thing, um,the other thing I think is to I
(20:29):
I was really thankful that I wasable to get, like my, my
youngest kid, involved in it.
Um, he helped to ink in I.
I got my nephew to help to likeink in the stuff, so I drew all
the characters in the book, butthey went in and helped to like
do all the finishing stuff inthere.
Um, but I like the I the thecollaborative process of this.
(20:51):
I think that is what not onlyhelps it to be a uh, a better
piece of literature.
But we also we got this thingdone and like a couple of months
it wasn't like a year Like wedrew it, like like it was all
drawn out.
You know, it's like we puttogether 10, we said it's 10
(21:12):
gags, right, 10 gags.
We're telling 10 stories go,and we just did that.
So now that the, the next threebooks are, there are four gags
each, a little longer each gag,but, um, yeah, this.
This next one is about just alittle teaser.
Um, hr wants a place at thestrategy table, but does hr ever
(21:39):
get no, a chance at thestrategy.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Very, you know it's funny, my wife's in the space
and it's something she struggleswith a lot with which is, you
know, hey, is it a strategy?
Or it comes down to like, youknow how you view.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
You know there's yeah , it's yeah, sorry, it's a tough
, it's a tough role, thanklessrole it is, it is, and I I, I
just taught a class at trinitychristian college, where I teach
as an adjunct, just taught aclass on strategic hr and I'm
like here here pay attention,guys, because this is, this is
everything that you need to knowand you need to know how to do,
(22:15):
but you have to be persuasiveabout it, right?
Yeah, if you're so asking thoseopen-ended questions, that's
you, you've you've got to bepersuasive.
Well, look at that.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
I could not agree more with it.
Let me take it a little further, then.
So, you know, could you think,because the alpha comes up, hey,
you know, could you think,because the alpha comes up, hey,
I wish I would've startedearlier, do you?
Do you think, though, now is ithappening for you, as opposed
to because, like you, have morelife experience to make it what
it is today?
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Or do you think that that time mattered, or do you
it's happening when it'ssupposed to, or was it just
really like?
No, it's truly a regret.
I could have done it and Ishould have done it.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
No, there's no regret on that.
I mean, there is certainly theconvergence of theory that I
didn't have behind me I mean, Ihad an MBA before but the theory
(23:17):
that came with industrialorganizational psychology came
at the right time.
It also came a little bit outof pain, you know, because there
was a.
You know I got displaced frommy VP position in 2023.
So when that happened there was, you know, it's like how do you
(23:38):
make light of all that crap?
And then all the crap that yousee with other things going on
in the world, you know, um, Ithink all that came at a really
good time.
Plus, you know, the meetingCheryl and Ben, uh, you know,
and and putting the the podcasttogether in 2023.
And putting the podcasttogether in 2023, I think it
(24:02):
developed a rapport and a rhythmthat we use in what we do.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I love that and it's the right mindset, because you
can't I mean you really can't goback in time and it's a waste
of time to think you know whatifs are reserved for the future.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
And I really like that.
I'm not going to go throughsome of the rapid fires, but I'm
going to leave it with this asit pertains to the, the, the
piece of contents that you'redoing now, and the.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
You know, the side hustle, yeah, what's the one
question though I should haveasked you the one question that
you should have asked me wouldbe oh, oh, man, that's a great
question and I should have beenprepared with this, because you
asked me that to the last andyou asked that for every one of
your guests.
Yeah, yeah, I think you shouldask me, like why doesn't anybody
(24:58):
else talking about this book?
Maybe that's the question.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Well, that is a good question.
Why do you think about it?
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And my answer to that is I think that we just need to
be more prolific about it.
I think we need to put out morecontent and you're going to see
more of him out there and as wedo more podcasts, as we do more
(25:28):
of these q a things you'regoing to see like wait, I did, I
just see a hermit crab talkingto somebody.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
I see it on your brand right and on your personal
profiles.
And now I I see that I knowit's you, so it works right.
Yeah, um yeah you should do it.
I love it.
That's great, we're on it forsure.
Uh, once again, how?
Who should get a hold of you?
How do you want to do that?
Actually, on this one, I'mgonna, I'm gonna, influence you.
(25:55):
Give me the youtube channel.
How can they watch it?
Speaker 2 (25:58):
So we're over at the Harmonious Workplaces YouTube
channel, so look up HarmoniousWorkplaces.
It's at Harmonious Workplaces.
That's our handle.
You're going to find all of ourpodcasts there.
You're also going to findHermie there.
Again, on our HarmoniousWorkplaces website,
harmoniousworkplacescom, you'llfind all kinds of Hermes stuff
(26:20):
there.
We even have a swag shop solike you can get like crazy
little mugs like this, you know,and we've got stickers and all
kinds of other stuff.
But I'm just a real quicklittle thing.
I'm also a member of theNational Cartoonist Society, so
that is like that's a hugebucket list item checked off.
(26:40):
Like I'm meeting people who youknow were working.
They they knew charles schultzand and they call him sparky,
like you know.
It's like just awesome, so it'sgood to be among those people.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
That's great.
Thank you for coming on there.
There's the crab and the, andyou got swag.
So, like you know a littlesqueezy guy of that, you know
you have to have some swag withit too.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
Thank you, rich, for coming ontoday.
Thanks for letting me talk.
I appreciate it.
Anybody who's still here listen, thank you for you know Rich's
work.
Find them on LinkedIn, checkout the YouTube channel and
(27:17):
yourself.
Get out there.
Go cut a tie to somethingholding you back.
You got to own your own success.
Start with defining it, what itmeans to you first, and let
nothing stop you from achievingit.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to the Cut the Tide podcast.
Hi, I'm your host, thomasHelfrich, and we are on a
mission.
We it's me, I'm on a mission.
I'm going to try to help youcut the tide of whatever it is
holding you back from success,and you got to own your own
success.
You got to define it yourself,otherwise you are chasing
someone else's dream, and todayI'm joined by Mr Rich Cruz,
repeat offender.
He's back on the show.
How you doing, rich.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Thanks, man.
Thanks for having me back.
This is awesome.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Yeah, rich, rich is a it's just guys context has been
on the show.
He's a one of these guys that'slike everybody else out there
in the respect of trying to findwork, is working, has a better
passion.
He's trying to get the sidehustle going.
So this is you like, ah man,I'd rather be doing this thing,
but I got to work to pay bills,but it's hard to find jobs.
This is a good conversation tolisten to because Rich and I had
(00:43):
this and I think it's.
You know, rich isn't famous,I'm not famous, but this is the
most relevant conversation tothe most people on the planet,
at least in the US, who justwant something else besides
waiting to get let go or toldthey're not, they're just
expensive or whatever agents andthings happen.
So, rich, introduce yourselfwhere you are, who you are, and
(01:04):
today I want you to focus onwhat your real passion is in
your side hustle with my familyand, um, I've had a marketing
career, thomas, for most of mylife.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
So, like the whole communication aspect has been,
you know what I, what I liked,what I about what I was doing,
(01:33):
but I went back into.
I went back to school in 2020after some career counseling and
really got into doingorganizational development after
getting a degree in industrialorganizational psychology from
purdue and but none of this, man, none of this is what I wanted
to do for you know I think wetalked about this in the last
podcast was I wanted to be, uh,an animator.
(01:56):
That's what that was, like mygoal.
I went to new chicago for, forart, like who does that?
You know?
I mean a lot of people, I guess,al.
But back in 98, I was one ofeight people that graduated in
that college and I'm reallythankful that I've been able to
(02:20):
use Blendy Arts with businessthroughout my career, but now
doing OD work, it's really comeout in a big way, you know.
So that's yeah, that's why Iwant to talk about it today,
cause I, we, we kind of put outa new book, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, I've started adding this part where it's for
the ADHD year, but I want peopleto be able to stalk you while
you're talking, so they havesomething to do while they're
listening.
Oh yeah, give me the one linkthis is where a lot of people
fall apart One link where theyshould go look right now,
harmoniousworkplacescom.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
You'll find everything there.
You'll find our consultingpractice, you'll find our
podcast, which we just did, our71st episode of this week.
So you'll also find Hermie theHR, hermit Crab, which is the
book that we put out.
Yep, that's us,harmoniousworkplacescom.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
What's the show?
A picture of it for thoselistening and watching.
You have a picture of theermine?
Oh yeah, so it's a character.
This is what's amazing.
I follow Rich on LinkedIn, soI'll give you a different call.
I actually go to Rich Cruz onLinkedIn and you see a crab.
That's him on his stuff.
But I didn't realize for thelongest time.
(03:39):
I thought he was just kind ofreposting stuff and I didn't
realize he was the one makingthat and I interviewed you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't knowwhat happened.
Right, I hear from your watchright now Rich is a his camera's
gone drunk.
I'm all blurry, hold on.
Give me one second, we're goingto upgrade his camera.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
There you go.
It's so crazy, you know.
Thank you, log, that littleglitch you could.
You could see her me.
Just all well and good here.
But anyway, yeah, her me, thehr hermit crab came out of like.
Again, I wanted to be acartoonist.
This is what I wanted to do,man, and I was like I have an
opportunity.
(04:17):
Cheryl volpe, who's our one ofour collaborators, um, she comes
from the entertainment world.
She was in, if anybody knows,mystery science theater 3000.
She was the.
Uh, yeah, I saw the.
I saw the smile come out.
Uh, she was the chief operatingofficer over there for that for
(04:39):
a couple of seasons.
And then ben kleinman, who hasa theater background, right,
he's, we all have this podcast.
And I was like, you know, wegot to do something different.
So I said, you know, I'vealways wanted to draw a cartoon
and I always wanted to dosomething not quite like dilbert
, but you know, in that, in thatvein about the workspace, you
(05:02):
know.
And so harvey came out of outof that because, uh, I, my
littlest kid, who just turned 18, gave me some idea about
drawing a hermit crab, just aprompt, and I did this doodle
and it was like super easy and Iwas like this guy's got legs
(05:23):
Six of them Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So you have a character and you kind of have
some knowledge of this and it'sreally pretty.
I mean, it doesn't look amateurat all.
I mean you see things, ohthey're good, but this is.
It's good To the point whereit's like I had no idea that was
you.
I thought you were justreposting it.
No-transcript, I thought youwere just reposting it because
it was one of your clients orsomething.
And when you say it has legs,it really does.
But now you face the businesspart of being an artist, right.
(05:50):
And so, in the spirit ofcutting the tie, I want you to
first define what success isgoing to look like for this
brand or for this endeavor.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, well, I mean success.
A couple of things.
One is book sales are great butthey're not going to pay the
bills, right?
So one of the ways that we havestarted to use Hermey is doing
organizational development, likeworkshops, so he can come in
and you'll kind of illustratesome of the ridiculousness of
(06:22):
the workplace, if that makessense.
So I just gave a presentationfor a local university and we
brought Hermie into.
You know some of the thingsabout customer service and some
of the pitfalls of it and howpeople act in the workplace and
all that stuff you know.
So he makes it reallyapproachable and we try to make
(06:46):
it so that the characters likewe're not vilifying any
particular you know character orwhatever, but everybody, I
guess, sort of like Marvel,right, everybody has like a
character flaw, right Of somekind, right, so he's at a pet
shop.
It's not an underwater thing,he's in a pet shop.
So we don't exactly know whatthey do.
(07:08):
One of the gags is all thehamsters are running out wheels.
We don't.
The hamsters are complaining.
We don't know why we're runningout wheels.
Their manager, who happens tobe a cat, is like I don't know
why we're running on wheels allin your life to keep them
running on wheels I like.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I like that the cat's not the one being herded here
like a right.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
That's right yes, yeah, it would be very hard to
herd a whole bunch of cats it'sthe cats like.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I gotta herd these other animals.
You know right that do othercats, but this one's.
Yeah, do you have a?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
cartoon that goes with this.
Yes, so on the harmoniousworkplaces website, you'll find
a page for a hermy.
Uh, you could also go to hermyhr crabcom.
Uh, hr is hermy, hr, hermitcrabcom I think both of those
work.
But, uh, if you go there,you'll find a whole bunch of
(08:07):
cartoons.
You'll find some animations, sowe actually have an animated
puppet of Hermit too.
So we just started exploringthat on Zoom, doing some Q&A
sessions and iVoice him.
So, if you ever hear it, thatsounds like this that's Hermit's
voice.
Yeah, so that sounds like this.
That's that's.
That's a Harvey's voice.
Yeah, so that's we.
You know, we just have fun withit.
(08:28):
Um, and it's been getting.
It's been getting some decentviews on YouTube and LinkedIn
and all of that.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, oh, what's the monetization, monetization,
monetization.
God, I'm having troubles.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
The monetization method of those?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Are you going to focus on YouTube, I mean, and
books behind it, because I meanYouTube is a scalable.
I'm reading the question.
I think you should be onYouTube because my kids
endlessly watch stuff, like you.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
You're exactly right, man.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, are you voting New York if you get a YouTube
right?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yep, I get a youtube right.
Yep, I think I actually gotsome of the tips from you on how
you grew, because you grew toremember, you grew to a million
viewers, yeah, yeah, it wastremendous.
So I started putting someadvertisements to boost
especially the hermy stuff, um,you know.
So I get much better views onthat, um, and then after that
(09:23):
the flywheel keeps goingorganically, which is great.
We are coming out with book two.
So we just and the book two andgoing forward.
They're going to be a little,they're going to be like a third
of the size, a third of thelength, right, but just
jam-packed, and the idea is thatwe'll be able to kind of box
(09:46):
set them and put them out faster.
So, self-publishing I'veself-published a few books
before and help some otherpeople do it.
But this little guy was supereasy, you'll go so I I think
your youtube channel right.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I wouldn't run ads.
I think it's a good way to kindof test it, because you're on
the other side.
You're not selling from stage.
Oh, and I think you knowthere's two parts of YouTube.
You either sell from stage as abusiness, so you run ads with
the fun, or a filter.
Um, because typically you're inin the other side, is
entertainment.
You're definitely entertainmentside and if it can be one of
(10:27):
those things that you'rekeywording around kids, this
entertain, like you're justtrying to find that specific
persona type for the kid or theadult, looking for something
that's positive, whatever fortheir kid.
You know, like you're we couldtake that offline, but the point
being is you solve a problemfor somebody by letting them
watch it and it's entertaining,it's positive and whatever else.
You'll make money from the adrevenue in between and that's
very well and you might run anad just to if you had something
that goes to sales.
(10:48):
But anybody out there, if youhave entertainment content, you
don't need to run ads.
You need to get yourentertainment better.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
And more prolifically right.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Well, weekly is fine, because for you, the idea is,
once it's out there, it's like,you know, people still watch the
Simpsons or Spongebob orwhatever else.
Sure, once it's out there, itjust becomes hey, start with you
know, season one, episode one,and like it, just you know.
And if you need, we'll take itoffline, by the way, I'll
(11:19):
introduce people for.
So, as we're discussing this, Ilike to come back to some of
the cut the tie moments.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Right, what's kind of the biggest tie right now that
you're struggling to cut in yourlife?
I think one of the biggest tiesthat I have is my own.
Just to be honest with you, man, I think part of it is like my
own self-confidence and I mean Iknow I can do like what I do
(11:47):
because I do it and my clients.
I've got almost 60 positivereviews on linkedin, you know.
But but moving forward with myown business that way and and I
think I've shared this on thelast podcast like I owned a
business, I owned a storefrontbusiness right right before the
recession.
So that whole thing you knowyou want to talk about.
(12:08):
You know, when you close abusiness and you go bankrupt and
there's foreclosure and allthat stuff, you know it shakes
you up a little bit.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
A lot of it, A lot of it.
The fact that you're stillmarried and it tells that that
person but I'm sure they're likeI know you said to me offline
like I'm not going through thatshit again, that's right.
And it takes you to a new levelof I'm Ubering.
I don't care, we're going toget money in.
Yeah, Not matter how you do it,no matter how we do it, that's
(12:39):
right.
So you're not that.
Just you gotta.
You gotta be tight who it is.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, and I I picked a good one man.
I mean 20, 25 years of marriagenow, um, with a 25 year old.
So put the math together.
But we've known, we knew eachother for like 10 years before
we tied the knot.
So wow, 10 years before we tiedthe knot, so wow.
Yeah, that is not not dating,just just friends, you know
(13:07):
we're not going to get into thatright now.
No, but it's good stuff and thisis.
She a character in me, she isnot a character in here.
We have explored how we're, howwe can bring some of those in
here and at the same time again,I don't want to vilify anybody
or make anybody like oh I got tokeep going with, you know, this
(13:28):
type of thing or whatever.
But there are elements of thepeople that I know that are in
these books.
You know, in this book and inthe we've introduced a few other
new characters, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
but yeah, characters you know.
But yeah, I'm trying toposition everybody who's
listening to become somecharacter that's like the sexy
voice dog or something like hey,I'm the lab.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Oh man, oh baby, I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Just all the other female crabs want to walk me.
Take your dog for a walk.
You should let it.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
You know, I don't know, I don't know how putting
putting putting the plural ofcrabs into romance doesn't seem
to work all that well.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
You got the balance, I think, for a good humor show,
in my opinion, is I thinkSpongeBob is an interesting
example right when I findentertaining and the kids do,
and sometimes it just gets tothe line like, should I let my
kids watch this?
But then I'm like they'll crackand they'll know there's more
there than what the humor was.
All right, all right, so it'swell done.
So I'm offering my voice.
(14:41):
It's that line you got him.
I like to draw a line in thesand and I like to run back on
concrete and jump over that line.
It's like as much power aspossible, maybe even add a
trampoline.
I don't want to be anywherenear the line when I land Right
on Right.
Oh, did I go too far?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, all right.
We did have one time where weauditioned somebody and he was
auditioning for a boss battle,which is the.
He's the same.
He's fighting fish, he's theboss of the.
So he's a little guy.
I've seen a better fish, right,they're a little guy, highly
aggressive, and if you put twoof them in the in a tank
(15:19):
together they'll kill each other, but he's just a little ball of
of anger sometimes, right, um.
So I, they'll kill each other,but he's just a little ball of
of anger sometimes, right, um.
So I had somebody who came into audition and again, I want to
make these characters sothey're not completely vilified,
right and he started swearingand having to try to smoke a
cigar and stuff like that.
I'm like this is not, it's gotto be more approachable.
(15:40):
So I ended up doing I had totake it over that voice for now,
but I do need to find somebodyto do that.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I won't guess.
I mean, that's a script line.
We'll talk it along Um so um inreal world.
You know, before you get thisgoing, you're you're trying to
still find work and you'retrying to, you know, get gigs.
Uh, talk about the struggle alittle you're going with with
that Cause, because I think it'srelevant to lots of people.
Understand that.
You know, I'm an entrepreneurat heart but I still got to.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yep, we still.
I mean, I mean, don't get mewrong, I still have clients.
I'm still, you know, I'm stillworking with several different
organizations.
You know, in my consulting gigI'm kind of between like bigger
projects.
I had a bigger project thatended in earlier this year and
I'm trying to get into more ofthat stuff.
(16:29):
Working in the manufacturingspace, I think there's a ton of
opportunity right now with newplants being built and
particularly being in theChicago area, there's a lot of
like smaller manufacturingcompanies and a big focus on
their ability to drive theeconomy.
So as they do that, they'regoing to have people problems
(16:53):
that I've uncovered that withsome of the clients I've already
been working with.
But right now there's also a lotof uncertainty and we actually
talk about this on our podcast,right when uh it.
You know, when you haveuncertainty, what happens is
like that that fight, flight, uh, freeze or fawn um uh reaction
(17:19):
happens right, the reptilianbrain's like I either have to
run away from this or I need ahold.
And it seems like there's a lotof that going on in hiring,
whether it's hiring a solutionprovider like us or even hiring
new people on their team.
So that's one of the things wehave to get over, you know, and
(17:39):
I think a big part of that isacknowledging some of that you
know and asking more questionsabout hey, why isn't this
working?
Or what have you started, whathave you tried to do?
And I'm finding that likeleveraging some of those
open-ended questions, like Idon't know if you're familiar
with Chris Voss, former FBIagent, that was about the
(18:02):
difference.
Yeah, those open-endedquestions can really start the
conversation and keep it going.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
That doesn't work for you.
No, that's what he says.
Oh, yeah, that's not going towork for me.
Yeah, that's right.
I've been doing this, by theway, occasionally.
It's fun to drill into atangent.
If you don't know, this bookNever Split the Difference.
Listen to it.
Amazing, it's just a greatstory.
I'm doing this.
(18:33):
I'm going to buy a car nextsummer because I't like new cars
.
Just give me a new one.
And so I'm already hagglingwith dealers now to see what I
can do to push them, and I haveliterally written back that
doesn't work for me.
Sure, they're just coming backwith new offers.
And then they're like well,what can we do?
I'm like you know, they wentlike we age different car.
(18:54):
I'm like, yeah, but thatdoesn't work Right.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Or or it's so much about it.
And the one I really love ishow am I supposed to do that?
Right, Right, Like, how am Isupposed to do that?
That's as like well, well, howabout?
What do you mean?
How are you supposed toquestion?
(19:18):
Or, I'll go take that back tomy manager.
You know it's like oh yeah,that wrote that it really does
work well, exactly, and and soyeah, or stuff like, um, would
it be ridiculous if we, we?
Speaker 1 (19:28):
explored this.
I do this with my kids, andspecifically the ones who can't
be there.
It has to be their idea and I'dbe like would?
And I'd be like, would you beopen?
Would you?
You know, would you consider ifyou'd be open?
Would you?
Would you open to give me anidea on this?
And it's amazing how well thatworks.
Um, cause, then they own it.
And then I see, I told you, I'mlike, right, uh, all right, let
(19:54):
me ask him, when it comes toyour book specifically yes, and
your, your Hermie, excuse me, um, what's maybe the one thing?
If you were to go back in yourtimeline in life, you would do
different around that.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Oh man, I would have started it.
I would have started it yearsago, like, if I would have, I
mean, had had a thought thatthis is going gonna be as well
received as he was, you know.
Um, so that's one thing, um,the other thing I think is to I
(20:29):
I was really thankful that I wasable to get, like my, my
youngest kid, involved in it.
Um, he helped to ink in I.
I got my nephew to help to likeink in the stuff, so I drew all
the characters in the book, butthey went in and helped to like
do all the finishing stuff inthere.
Um, but I like the I the thecollaborative process of this.
(20:51):
I think that is what not onlyhelps it to be a uh, a better
piece of literature.
But we also we got this thingdone and like a couple of months
it wasn't like a year Like wedrew it, like like it was all
drawn out.
You know, it's like we puttogether 10, we said it's 10
(21:12):
gags, right, 10 gags.
We're telling 10 stories go,and we just did that.
So now that the, the next threebooks are, there are four gags
each, a little longer each gag,but, um, yeah, this.
This next one is about just alittle teaser.
Um, hr wants a place at thestrategy table, but does hr ever
(21:39):
get no, a chance at thestrategy.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Very, you know it's funny, my wife's in the space
and it's something she struggleswith a lot with which is, you
know, hey, is it a strategy?
Or it comes down to like, youknow how you view.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
You know there's yeah , it's yeah, sorry, it's a tough
, it's a tough role, thanklessrole it is, it is, and I I, I
just taught a class at trinitychristian college, where I teach
as an adjunct, just taught aclass on strategic hr and I'm
like here here pay attention,guys, because this is, this is
everything that you need to knowand you need to know how to do,
(22:15):
but you have to be persuasiveabout it, right?
Yeah, if you're so asking thoseopen-ended questions, that's
you, you've you've got to bepersuasive.
Well, look at that.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
I could not agree more with it.
Let me take it a little further, then.
So, you know, could you think,because the alpha comes up, hey,
you know, could you think,because the alpha comes up, hey,
I wish I would've startedearlier, do you?
Do you think, though, now is ithappening for you, as opposed
to because, like you, have morelife experience to make it what
it is today?
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Or do you think that that time mattered, or do you
it's happening when it'ssupposed to, or was it just
really like?
No, it's truly a regret.
I could have done it and Ishould have done it.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
No, there's no regret on that.
I mean, there is certainly theconvergence of theory that I
didn't have behind me I mean, Ihad an MBA before but the theory
(23:17):
that came with industrialorganizational psychology came
at the right time.
It also came a little bit outof pain, you know, because there
was a.
You know I got displaced frommy VP position in 2023.
So when that happened there was, you know, it's like how do you
(23:38):
make light of all that crap?
And then all the crap that yousee with other things going on
in the world, you know, um, Ithink all that came at a really
good time.
Plus, you know, the meetingCheryl and Ben, uh, you know,
and and putting the the podcasttogether in 2023.
And putting the podcasttogether in 2023, I think it
(24:02):
developed a rapport and a rhythmthat we use in what we do.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I love that and it's the right mindset, because you
can't I mean you really can't goback in time and it's a waste
of time to think you know whatifs are reserved for the future.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
And I really like that.
I'm not going to go throughsome of the rapid fires, but I'm
going to leave it with this asit pertains to the, the, the
piece of contents that you'redoing now, and the.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
You know, the side hustle, yeah, what's the one
question though I should haveasked you the one question that
you should have asked me wouldbe oh, oh, man, that's a great
question and I should have beenprepared with this, because you
asked me that to the last andyou asked that for every one of
your guests.
Yeah, yeah, I think you shouldask me, like why doesn't anybody
(24:58):
else talking about this book?
Maybe that's the question.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Well, that is a good question.
Why do you think about it?
Speaker 2 (25:07):
And my answer to that is I think that we just need to
be more prolific about it.
I think we need to put out morecontent and you're going to see
more of him out there and as wedo more podcasts, as we do more
(25:28):
of these q a things you'regoing to see like wait, I did, I
just see a hermit crab talkingto somebody.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
I see it on your brand right and on your personal
profiles.
And now I I see that I knowit's you, so it works right.
Yeah, um yeah you should do it.
I love it.
That's great, we're on it forsure.
Uh, once again, how?
Who should get a hold of you?
How do you want to do that?
Actually, on this one, I'mgonna, I'm gonna, influence you.
(25:55):
Give me the youtube channel.
How can they watch it?
Speaker 2 (25:58):
So we're over at the Harmonious Workplaces YouTube
channel, so look up HarmoniousWorkplaces.
It's at Harmonious Workplaces.
That's our handle.
You're going to find all of ourpodcasts there.
You're also going to findHermie there.
Again, on our HarmoniousWorkplaces website,
harmoniousworkplacescom, you'llfind all kinds of Hermes stuff
(26:20):
there.
We even have a swag shop solike you can get like crazy
little mugs like this, you know,and we've got stickers and all
kinds of other stuff.
But I'm just a real quicklittle thing.
I'm also a member of theNational Cartoonist Society, so
that is like that's a hugebucket list item checked off.
(26:40):
Like I'm meeting people who youknow were working.
They they knew charles schultzand and they call him sparky,
like you know.
It's like just awesome, so it'sgood to be among those people.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
That's great.
Thank you for coming on there.
There's the crab and the, andyou got swag.
So, like you know a littlesqueezy guy of that, you know
you have to have some swag withit too.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
Thank you, rich, for coming ontoday.
Thanks for letting me talk.
I appreciate it.
Anybody who's still here listen, thank you for you know Rich's
work.
Find them on LinkedIn, checkout the YouTube channel and
(27:17):
yourself.
Get out there.
Go cut a tie to somethingholding you back.
You got to own your own success.
Start with defining it, what itmeans to you first, and let
nothing stop you from achievingit.
Thanks for listening.
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