October 7, 2025 • 27 mins
Cut The Tie Podcast with Michael J. Frank
What happens after the big exit—when the money’s in the bank but the meaning’s gone? In this candid episode of Cut The Tie, host Thomas Helfrich sits down with veteran trader and investor Michael J. Frank, who went from the floor of the American Stock Exchange to mentoring startups and investing in brain-health innovation.
Michael opens up about the high-intensity world of trading, the cost of ego, the danger of losing purpose after success, and why “retirement” is the worst word in the English language. For executives who’ve made it but feel restless, his story is a wake-up call: you don’t need to stop—you just need to build something that matters.
About Michael J. Frank
Michael J. Frank is a former floor trader and specialist who sold his firm to a public company before turning his attention to mentoring founders and investing in neuro-innovation. As a principal at Innovation Ventures, he focuses on brain-health startups tackling Alzheimer’s, ADHD, autism, and other neurological challenges. Michael also co-founded Gildre, a community connecting entrepreneurs with mentors, tools, and events to help them scale. Based in Millburn, New Jersey, he sits on five advisory boards and still works six or seven days a week—because, as he says, “the glass is always half full.”
In this episode, Thomas and Michael discuss:
- Why retirement kills momentum
The hidden cost of walking away from purpose—and how staying engaged keeps your mind alive. - Cutting ties with ego and illusion
Michael shares how chasing money and validation nearly cost him everything that mattered. - From floor trader to mentor
How he turned decades of market experience into guidance for young founders and innovators. - Family over fortune
Why redefining success meant putting family first, cutting toxic people, and finding peace. - Building in the age of AI
His take on how artificial intelligence will change business the way electricity and the computer did.
Key Takeaways
- Purpose doesn’t retire
You don’t need a paycheck to keep contributing—just curiosity and drive. - Ego is the most expensive tie to cut
The need to prove yourself can destroy the very success you’re chasing. - Stay in the game
Work, volunteer, mentor—do something that challenges you daily. - Surround yourself with the right people
Family and true friends fuel you; negativity drains you. - Every day is another trade
Show up ready, stay humble, and learn—wins follow those who keep playing.
Connect with Michael J. Frank
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikejfrank/
📧 Email: michael@gildre.com
Connect with Thomas Helfrich
🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/thelfrich
📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/cutthetie
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomashelfich
🌐 Website: https://www.cutthetie.com
📧 Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
🚀 https://www.instantlyrelevant.com
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to the Cut the Tie Podcast.
Hello, I'm your host, ThomasHelfrick, and I am on a mission
to help you cut the tie towhatever it is holding you back
from success.
And that success is defined byyou and no one else.
Otherwise, you're chasingsomeone else's dream.
And today I am joined by Mr.
Michael J.
Frank.
unknown (00:14):
Michael, how are you?
SPEAKER_00 (00:16):
Thank you.
I am good.
I woke up today.
I'm a happy guy.
SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
Above ground, winning.
Um it's I mean, that's a simplethat's it.
Next question.
SPEAKER_00 (00:28):
I'm a half full guy for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
The glass is always half full.
I'm uh you can always refill it.
So drink it all.
Um and anything worth doing isworth overdoing, Michael.
All right.
General rule of me.
Michael, take a moment.
SPEAKER_00 (00:43):
Introduce yourself and what it is you do.
Uh Michael J.
Frank out of uh Milburn, NewJersey, a former floor trader
and a specialist who exited to apublic company a couple decades
ago, been mentoring startups.
I've uh mentored lots of people,a father of three, married for
(01:04):
36 years, and now a co-founderwith two millennials in a
community called Guilder.
We provide access to mentors,tools, and events to help build
a successful company.
We believe we can empoweranybody at any stage of their
career.
I'm on uh five advisory boards.
One is a nonprofit, the rest arefor-profit, and I run a small
fund that called NovationVentures.
(01:24):
Excuse me, I'm a principal in asmall fund called Novation
Ventures, and we invest in brainhealth startups.
So it's a neurodevelopment,neurodegenerative things like
Alzheimer's Autism, AHD,Tourette's.
I like working.
They never retire, and I work uhsix or seven days a week.
I enjoy it.
unknown (01:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
You know, it's funny.
A lot of the unscrews Iinterview, they have friends
who've retired, and some haveexited this planet, and others
have just lost their mind.
They're like, yeah, I'm I'mnever shutting it down.
It's too much fun.
And I think I honestly thinkthat's because if you have fun
doing it, it's not work.
People call it work becauseyou're not golfing, but golfing
can be frustrating.
I mean, like, I don't know aboutyou, but I can only go so many
(02:01):
times in a week without wantingthrow my clubs in the woods.
I'm not leader at that.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Yeah, I'm not uh spending five hours golfing.
I I think I enjoy more riding inthe golf course and the
commodity ship than the golfing.
You can golf really well, andthen you can not even, at least
for me, not even hit the ballproperly.
Um I had a grandfather who had abusiness and success, very
successful business in the uhEast Coast and record stores and
(02:26):
audio, and he sold the companyand thought he's gonna go paint,
and he died not too shortlyafter.
I have a bunch of friends, Icall them pips, previously
important people.
Um, they are on the golf course,retired.
They think they're happy.
Um, I think they're brain deadand know nothing about anything,
including AI or anything but butwhat they read on whatever you
know channel they're watching orsomething.
(02:48):
And yeah, I kind of feel bad forthem.
Like they're just they're done.
Like they're just stepping intothe grave, and I'm not I'm
nowhere near there.
SPEAKER_01 (02:57):
Yeah, what's interesting, right?
And and we'll we'll get to yourstuff, but I think that's a good
point because it sets the tonefor you and what we're about to
talk about in your journey.
But but I think what I think thesadder thing is, is like, and
and this ties to what you'redoing, I believe, is that
there's so much knowledge asbeing a successful person
getting there.
The to not actively go give thatwisdom, let's say not knowledge,
(03:19):
but wisdom to a group that'shungry for it, to me seems just
criminal.
Like you should definitely dothat.
And because there's a phase inyour life, you know, I'm I'm
just starting almost at 50 whereI I want to mentor people
because I've learned a lot andand I'm doing I do so.
I love it.
So let's start with this, firstof all.
Before we get on your journey,please define success.
(03:40):
What does that mean to youtoday?
SPEAKER_00 (03:43):
I think it's different than what I thought it
meant when I was younger.
Success to me meant when they'reyounger that they had the
Porsche turbo and vacations andspend ridiculous money on stupid
things.
Um now, to me, doing the rightthing all the time, working with
people, building guilder andinvesting in people that are
(04:05):
gonna make a difference.
Um but success to me, havingdinner with the family and them
around, and hopefully, somegrandkids one day where I could
be a um I'll call it an icecream and candy grandfather.
SPEAKER_01 (04:20):
Oh yeah.
Get them jacked up and here yougo.
You always wanted this as you'rea kid.
SPEAKER_00 (04:25):
Yeah, yeah.
Now I I, you know, like raisingchildren is freaking hard and
it's expensive, and there's lotsof issues that go on.
And and we've sort of done that,and now being empty nesters,
I've jumped completely.
I was a trader and sold acompany, but I jumped completely
into sort of somethingdifferent, and it took me a long
time to get up to speed.
(04:47):
Um, and my wife has foundsuccess working at the JCC in a
memory care unit where sheprovides programming for people
with memory issues, which isscary.
And maybe Novation Venturesinvest in someone who comes up
with one of the pieces to theanswer to Alzheimer's, which is
like super scary to me.
SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
Yeah, it is.
We think that one offline.
I got some ideas on that.
So uh give give me a little bitabout your journey.
And what was the biggest uhmetaphoric tie, so to speak, to
to achieve that success you justdefined?
SPEAKER_00 (05:20):
I went to Northeastern thinking I was
gonna be a pharmacist.
Um Boston, great town, love it.
Um took a job at the localliquor store.
I was more interested in doingdrugs than learning to be a
pharmacist and chasing skirt anddoing the things that many
people do in college, maybe lessso now because you know I don't
(05:42):
know, maybe I was just spoiledand didn't understand it or
immature.
Um and I finished up at FairleyDickinson.
And while my brother was acouple years ahead of me at
Fairley, he met his uh wife tobe, and the father-in-law was
involved in the stock market,and I started understanding, and
my brother spent one year on thetrading floor and made twice
(06:04):
what my dad made working 25years for a company.
And I said to myself, oh my God,this is me.
And I started riding in the backof this car.
I wasn't allowed to talk.
You know, going every day fromthe Fort Lee area into the
American Stock Exchange with thetop-down, with all the buses
spewing at the time and type ofthing.
Uh, but I got to learn and I gotto go on the floor, and uh
(06:25):
eventually I took some money andsome borrowed money and went
down to the Philadelphia StockExchange and experienced uh a
place where the harder you workand the better you do, the you
make a lot of money.
And it was like, what is this?
And it's it's very hard todescribe.
And I try and point to peoplelike trading, the look of
trading, you could sort of seeit on some of the news channels.
(06:47):
Sometimes they show them yellingand screaming.
But there was a famous movie, acomedy called Trading Places
with Eddie Murphy and DanAckroyd, and it's got a lot
going on in there with thesocial stuff, but there's a
great trading scene there in thecommodities pit and the juice
crop comes out.
But you know, trading is noteasy.
There's two aspects to it it'suh the math and understanding it
(07:08):
and volatility and and skew andketosis and all these things
that would be hard to describe,but trying to manage risk and
being in a crowd and addingliquidity.
Um but the second part is tryingto do this.
Like I've seen really smartpeople, PhDs come down, but
standing in the crowd all dayand yelling and trying to get
people's attention and get atrade done and making sure it
clears and making sure you keepbookkeeping on it, you hedge it
(07:31):
properly and you get your hedgesoff is a whole nother animal.
Uh so both of them together arehard to do.
Um and it sort of doesn't existanymore.
They've gone completelyelectronic.
I don't think it has the sameliquidity it it did in the past.
I understand now with Bitcoinand all the currencies that um
those pits in other countriesare very, very lucrative.
(07:53):
And this almost makes me want tosort of come out of retirement
and go back go back to the floorin some way.
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
Yeah.
Well, you can you can do itdigitally at any point, right?
You've got to get the rightright technology set up behind
you.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:06):
But it's a the floor game is completely the digital
floor game is completelydifferent.
But um on the floor itself forliquidity with all these
customers, so we'll see.
SPEAKER_01 (08:15):
So so the the metaphor tie, so to speak, has
been the move from thathigh-intensity wealth
environment to uh where you aretoday, where it's a different
focus and helping and and andit's just it's a completely
different lifestyle.
Is that the fair that it'sgetting getting through that?
Or what will how would youdefine that tie?
SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
You have like I did okay, and I had an exit to a
public company, so I can'tcomplain.
And they came off the floor, um,still had huge positions that
were still winding down.
We sold us, I sold thespecialist books.
Um, everyone was super happywith bonuses and everything.
And some people moved on, andsome people uh went to the other
company.
Um, and then I got to coach allthree children and all of
(08:57):
exports here in town and bearound a lot, so that was great.
And then after that, I wassearching for something to sort
of do properly.
Um, and you go through anexploration of like, you know,
what am I gonna do?
I I I know my skill set doesn'tsort of exist anymore.
I can't apply it.
So I have to try and retoolmyself and uh and retool my
(09:18):
brain.
And I was there for 9-11 at theAmerican Stock Exchange, and uh
that definitely messed with myhead for sure.
In hindsight, I can understand.
Um, then I didn't understand it.
And it was right in the middleof my exit.
So trying to find something anddo something um and make some
money and feel good aboutyourself because no matter how
(09:41):
much money you have or don'thave, if you're not productive
and doing things and helpingpeople and making some money,
you quickly become disillusionaland you know, start just going
down rabbit holes and stuff likethat.
And I sort of ran into a lot ofpeople that were not who they
said they are liars or cheaters,telling you this and that.
(10:02):
And I went down a bunch ofdifferent things and lost some
money realizing that uh I waslooking for something, but it
certainly wasn't gonna be withthose people.
SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
Yeah.
Well, I know typically there's alot of moments that lead up to
saying, I'm done with this, I'mgoing on to the next thing.
Do you remember your exactmoment?
SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
No, it was a cumulation of just what the F am
I gonna do with myself?
Like, like eventually you'rejust sort of um doing things.
I eventually um in the office Iwas in after selling the
company, I hooked up with a guyand we built Investance, which
was a digital wealth managementplatform commonly known as a
(10:40):
Robo Advisor.
We're B2C, we moved to B2B, welanded this giant bank, UOB out
of Singapore.
They weren't uh they were stilldoing transactional business,
and everyone else in the most ofthe world in the US was on
asset-based stuff, so guaranteedincome versus waiting for
commissions.
Um, and we built this platform,and I thought, you know, we're
gonna sell this thing for ahundred million bucks, we're
(11:02):
just gonna kill it.
Um, except the UOB bank, if theyhave 10 people on a panel and
all 10 of them don't say yes,and nine say yes, they don't
move forward so quick.
On the trading floor, if youhave a 60 or 70 percent
confidence in a trade, likeyou're just laying it on, like
you're assessing it all thetime.
Um, and then in the middle ofthat, uh as far as gum says shit
(11:25):
happens, and the CEO's wife gotpancreatic cancer, and that is
not a good thing.
Um, and anyone who typically hasit is very tough.
Um, and that was the sort of theend of the company.
And I had no objections to himgoing home and spending time
with the family and doingwhatever he could.
Like I'm like, yeah, me familyfirst.
I always tell my childrengrowing up, I'm like, the
(11:47):
family's us.
It has nothing to do with thatbig house we're in or the little
house we're in or anything.
Like, I'll be happy with youguys anywhere, like as long as
I'm around my family.
Um, so what from there I startedmentoring startups out of new
chip and other things, and thatwas definitely worthwhile.
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
I love that.
When you when you start makingthe move, right?
Uh talk about the how.
What were the things you had todo different, change?
I mean, I mean, I asked people,like, you it could be I had to
stop spinning this, I had to goto therapy.
Well, like, how did you how didyou make the move?
Because I mean that's a big one,right?
To go from what you identifiedas thought to shit, what what's
(12:24):
next?
Like, give me some hows.
SPEAKER_00 (12:27):
Um, you know, the investments gig after being in
the office and sort of thinkingI'm trading and I'm gonna do
good, and I got this money andI'm smarter than the average
bear.
Like, you quickly just get hitover the head on a regular
basis.
Um, and those are just badthoughts to always have.
Like when you think you'refaster or better, like whatever.
(12:49):
Like, no, there's lots of smartpeople in the world, and uh, we
find that all the time.
Um, but the investments thing,like we had something, we were
too green in like the startupecosystem, not understanding how
to raise capital properly andhow hard that is to build a
funnel and and other things.
And uh I could point out a dozenthings that the CEO did that in
(13:12):
hindsight, you know, I wastrying to get him not to do
that, but just let, you know,like I I rest, I rest some of
the fault of the downfall ofthat on me and us.
Um, but from there it was, youknow, trying to build something
else.
So I started mentoring startupsout of New Chip and had a bunch
of shares from doing that.
And uh I had met the reason Igot to New Chip was I was at a
(13:35):
uh event in Hoboken calledPropellified, right on the
water, looking at New York.
It's beautiful, it's allstartups.
And I had met uh Mehesh, anothermillennial.
Um I work with all thesemillennials and they work really
hard.
And we formed uh he was over atNew Chip and I went over to
mentor and I just found itsatisfying.
Like I'm just talking withpeople and startups, and maybe
they're not looking at me forthe sort of the math, but like,
(13:58):
you know, building things ishard and like waking up every
day is hard.
And when you're trading and youget beat up trading, and you got
to come in the next day, knowingyou're probably getting beat up
because you already saw what thestock market's doing the after
hours of your particular stock,it's freaking hard, like showing
up, like you're you're alreadytaking, you know, a five-figure
loss or something or whatever itmight be.
Um, but I learned to just get upand go in every day, like you
(14:21):
know, wake up and do it, andlike, you know, gotta do it and
just do the best you can.
And on the trading floor, asgood as you are one day, maybe
you're not so good the next day,and that humbles you on a
regular basis.
And it allows you to understandthat uh nothing is easy.
There's a lot of lot of bumps inthe road.
And from there, when a new chipactually collapsed, they'd taken
(14:43):
on a lot of debt and they weretrying to sort of growth hack it
at the wrong time.
And at the time, Mahesh wasbeing offered like the CEO job
to go in there.
And I was sort of mentoring himat the same time a little bit.
I'm like, nah, you don't want totouch that.
That's like so dirty already.
They're just gonna go intobankruptcy or something, and
then your name is gonna beinvolved.
(15:04):
Um, so he lost a significantamount of shares.
I lost way less shares.
Um, but I had met two people,Brian and Tiger, who worked
there.
And Brian was running all thementors, and I was one of the
original mentors, but now theyhad, you know, I don't know,
thousands of them.
And I'm like, what are you gonnado?
And you know, they didn't evenget paid the last two weeks.
Um and we formed Gilder out ofthat, like after a while.
(15:26):
And I get to work with uh Brianout of Chicago and Tiger out of
Missoula, Montana, and uh theywork hard, like even harder than
me.
I think Brian's probably working80 hours a week.
He's got a second company, a PhDwife, a one and a half-year-old
baby.
Like, I'm not even sure how hedoes it sometimes.
Um, I my guess is 80 hoursminimum week.
That's my guess.
SPEAKER_01 (15:45):
Wow.
I have I have a question.
So when you were doing yourtrading, was there ever a number
in your head?
If I hit this, go into treasurybills, 5%, I'm good.
SPEAKER_00 (15:54):
Yes.
And I hit that number.
And then that was my nextquestion, and then what'd you
give them?
And then I got in my head that,and I'm married 36 years, and I
got in my head that and I don'tthink my ever discussed this,
but I got in my head that Ineeded enough money to say I've
had enough, and here's yourhalf.
(16:17):
And that was a downfall.
That was really, really badbecause I had a great wife and a
great family, but you start, youknow, you exited, you got this
cash, you're like, I want I wanta younger wife.
I want a wife that maybe wantsto do things more often than
this wife or something likethat.
And uh that was a downfall.
So I started sort of tradingdifferently, and I realized that
(16:41):
maybe the money I made wasn'tfrom my particular trading, but
was from the overall setup ofall the traders and managing
risk.
And maybe I wasn't the traderthat I thought I was.
Not maybe, I definitely wasn'tthe trader I thought I was, and
that was costly that thinking,and not realizing that being
(17:01):
married to someone who's thereall the time when going through
9-11, and that's just a wholenother story.
But I actually in 2020 got sick,and then you know, it just whole
thinking sort of changes whenyou think that maybe you're not
gonna wake up the next day umand you realize how important
(17:25):
family really is, family andfriends and keeping them close.
As well as getting rid of anypeople that are not positive and
good for you.
Um you have to exercise themlike cancer and just get rid of
them and not do that.
And and 20 years ago, we gave upwatching any news whatsoever,
whether ABC, DFR, uh we didn'tneed to see the mayhem and
(17:48):
stuff.
That's it.
We just won't watch it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:51):
No, you're you're uh you're spawn.
You know, it's like a watersource, right?
We all drink from it, but onetoxic element into it affects
everyone around it, and you gotyou gotta get rid of it.
SPEAKER_00 (17:59):
And sometimes I recently had a friend of 30
years who every time I spoke tohim, I felt like shit after my
friend.
And finally I said to him,called through one time, like,
hey, we're done.
So what do you mean?
I said, please don't call meagain.
I'm never gonna call you again.
I feel lousy every time I getdone.
Maybe you're trying to you'renot doing this on purpose, but
(18:20):
um, we're done.
And that was that.
And I felt good.
Like uh, like, all right, Idon't need to have some anger.
Yeah, whatever.
Like, I don't I don't need that.
SPEAKER_01 (18:29):
No, you you're you're right.
And so that I guess very, Imean, maybe uh, you know, kind
of the uh thing I always ask iskind of advice for listeners,
would that be the advice, orwould you have something else
for them?
SPEAKER_00 (18:40):
I think advice is there is no problem that's
insurmountable.
Uh talk to your friends, yourmentors, older people with the
experience.
Get up every day, put your pantson or your or your skirt on or
whatever it is you want, and goand go, or both, and go and go
do something and get out there.
(19:01):
So I have a bunch of friends.
Um, I have a friend who justinherited a bunch of money and
he thinks he's sort of going toretire.
And I'm like, you can't retire.
I said, just go go take a job,go to the church or the
synagogue, soup kitchen, homedepot, Trader Joe's, go work 20
hours a week, keep yourselfbusy, keep yourself in the game.
Very important as you get olderto uh wake up, have something to
(19:25):
go to, to do something, and notsit around listening to whatever
it is on you know these talkshows and things like that.
That stuff will just rot yourbrain.
Uh, just like thinking thatyou're gonna golf every day,
maybe physically for your body,it's okay, but you have to have
other stimuli and other things.
SPEAKER_01 (19:41):
Yeah, you do.
And I, you know, the idea is theadvice I've heard from lots of
guys is take a sabbatical, havea shit ton of fun, and get back
in.
Like so go for a year and go dosomething fun.
All the stuff on the list, andthen come back in and figure
something else to go do.
SPEAKER_00 (19:56):
So we are in we are in an age of AI and people don't
understand it, but whenelectricity came about, it
changed the human race.
When the computer came about, itchanged the human race.
Two significant things.
AI, I believe is even biggerthan that.
And I see it being implementedeverywhere in all our startups
(20:16):
at Gilder, and it's gonna changethe world for the better.
And maybe like in the future, Idon't know if you watch Star
Trek, but like in the future,they have the replicators, they
have unlimited energy, unlimitedfood, and all this stuff.
And maybe that's where we'reeventually heading with AI, and
hopefully not Terminator, wherethey realize that we're humans
(20:36):
are dumb and that they they needto get rid of us for our sake.
SPEAKER_01 (20:42):
There'll be a man behind the curtain as there
always is with that scenario.
All right, for sure.
Uh what do you uh what's the tietoday you're trying to cut that
that you're struggling with?
SPEAKER_00 (20:53):
Um I've been trying for five years and maybe too
long to get on a paid boardseat.
Um and I was thinking I would beon a public board seat, but
maybe the fiduciary risk thereis too much.
But private equity, I own a lotof companies, maybe board
members, um eSops,employee-owned companies, and
(21:15):
privately owned companies.
So I'm working towards that.
I've been working towards thatfor five years, and I take
endless amounts of CP creditsthrough Ernston Young and
Deloitte and KPMG, and I spend alot of time on LinkedIn posting
and talking about things.
And that's my wall that I'vebeen climbing for some time.
And I think I'm getting close,and I won't give up because
(21:37):
that's my future.
So as maybe Gilda gets biggerand I I maybe we sell it one day
or not, or whatever, but I'dlike to go sit on some boards.
And with what I understand andmy entrepreneurial journey and
my diversity of thought and uhthe way I think of things, I
think I could be very helpful tocompanies with bigger budgets.
I'm on five of these boards now,they pay just in shares, and one
(22:00):
of them is a nonprofit where thegentleman spent 12 years in
federal penitentiary for drugcharges, and I do that for free,
and I like working with them.
And he's spoken to over 6,000people, 10 and 20 at a time, at
risk youth, right?
Drugs and violence is not theanswer.
Uh so I give back that way.
Um, I'm happy to do it.
And my journey is uh a paidboard seat.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
Uh some some rapid fire, sir.
So what was probably the uh bestor worse business advice you've
ever received?
SPEAKER_00 (22:30):
The best business advice I've ever seen.
Um or the worst.
I'm not sure I can answer thatrapid fire.
Um let me think about it.
What's the next question?
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
Uh well, maybe okay.
So maybe a book.
Give me a book you thinkeveryone should read.
SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
Um, one of the books that I think everyone should
read if they're building astartup um is is uh I'm not
gonna know the name of it, butwe'll look over and tell you
it's a venture deals by Feld.
If you're raising capital, ifyou're building a company, you
have to read that to understandthat.
The best business advice I evergot, I think is just show up
(23:10):
every day.
Like you've got to just show upevery day at the right time,
sober, ready to go, and and andand do the best thing.
Um, but very clearly um treatyour employees really well and
listen to what they have to sayand take care of them and do the
right thing there.
The worst business advice, um,I'd have to go back to one of
(23:31):
the trades that I probably puton too much and took too much
risk.
Um there's just a lot of them.
Um and that's part of the wholethinking of when you're trading
and you know how much money youwant to make and what you're
trying to do.
SPEAKER_01 (23:45):
Now, if you had to go back in your timeline, any
point you wanted to go, whenwould you go back?
What would you do differently?
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
I'd go back to 1980, 81, when I was on the floor of
the Philadelphia Stock Exchange,and I would have learned better
what the math was behindtrading.
Because I was standing in thecloud, buying on the bid,
selling in the offer of options,and the guy next to me wearing
computer vision, and it wasabout 18% interest rates, and he
(24:13):
was just doing reversals.
So he's selling the stock,buying the call, and selling the
put for even and making hugemoney, a million a year,
standing next to me while I wasmaking, you know, 5,000 a month,
and I was just too young andchasing too much skirt to work
on the math and understand whathe was doing or what I should
have been doing.
And had I done that earlier, itwould have changed the
(24:36):
trajectory of my business andwhat I was doing.
And I was just too immature touh understand it.
SPEAKER_01 (24:42):
Another example answer is on the exit, I put it
all in Bitcoin.
That would have been fine too.
I would have gone that way.
SPEAKER_00 (24:47):
I was looking at Bitcoin when it's two or three
hundred, and I actually sort ofdanced around a little bit, and
I saw it go up a lot and thencome down.
And my trading sense said to me,This is going higher.
And I will tell you this mytrading sense at a hundred and
what is it now?
19,000 um says it's goinghigher.
And mathematically it's gonna goto a million, like it's gonna
(25:09):
run out in the movie.
No, there's no there's no suchthing as that math.
That's all BS.
It's gonna run out.
They're gonna it's a it's ayeah, but it's it then it'll be
just uh, you know, somethingthat people own.
But the um in our lifetimesit'll get to a million.
I think there's a possibility,but if quantum computing comes
through quicker and they couldbreak the chain and then you can
make all the bitcoin you want,it's going to zero.
(25:30):
Um, and people don't understandthat.
I doubt that's ever happening,but people are recommending
everyone have 1% in Bitcoin.
They have ETFs now.
So I think there's just anunderlying bid for effort.
So my guess is it's goinghigher.
I'm not a buyer and I think itcomes in hard, but from is it
from a million or three hundredthousand or a hundred and
eighteen thousand?
I have no idea.
SPEAKER_01 (25:51):
Well, you I I like the idea.
No matter what you put yourmoney in about 10 years later,
you can take it out.
You've done you've done great.
At any point, didn't matterwhere you're in the cycle, just
put it in 10 years later, you'regood.
The market has done the markethas done very well.
Yeah.
Uh I think your last question isif there was a question I should
have asked you, but I didn't,what would that question have
been?
SPEAKER_00 (26:13):
Um what's the most important thing in your life?
SPEAKER_01 (26:18):
How would you answer it?
SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
Gotta be my family.
That's it.
I give everything up, you know,everything up for the family.
Um, and even at this age, maybeeven my, you know, given a
choice of, you know, them or meor something, like I've lived a
decent life.
Like I want them to move on andstuff.
So uh I have a son and twodaughters, they're all doing
(26:40):
well, they're off our dime.
They actually recently bought usdinner and a and and a spa, we a
one-day spa thing.
It's like kind of weird to haveyour children buying things for
you when the money's all gonethe other way.
But uh no, family is whateverything is important, family
and friendship.
And when you have friends andyou text them or call them up
and you haven't spoken to themin a year, a good friend just
(27:02):
says, Hey, how are you?
What's going on?
And a friend that's not a goodfriend maybe says, you know, oh,
you don't call me or anything.
Like my friend just pick up theconversation like it was just
yesterday.
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
Yeah, that's a good friend.
Thank you for coming on, by theway.
To tell everyone how, or well,who do you want to get a hold of
you and how do you want them todo that?
SPEAKER_00 (27:19):
Uh Michael J.
Frank, I'm on LinkedIn.
You could find me there um andyou can message me there.
That would be great.
Or on Michael at Gilder.com uhfor email.
G-I-L-D-R-E.
SPEAKER_01 (27:31):
Michael, thank you so much for coming on today.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (27:34):
I appreciate it.
Um a million subscribers, how doI say no, sir?
SPEAKER_01 (27:38):
Right?
Come on.
If you say if you want to, Sam.
Listen, everyone who made it tothis point in the show, thank
you so much.
You know, I I want you to getout there, define your success,
and you know, cut the ties ofwhatever it is holding you back.
Again, listen, if it's yourfirst time here, hope it's the
first of many.
And if you've been here before,thanks for coming back.
Welcome to the Cut the Tie Podcast.
Hello, I'm your host, ThomasHelfrick, and I am on a mission
to help you cut the tie towhatever it is holding you back
from success.
And that success is defined byyou and no one else.
Otherwise, you're chasingsomeone else's dream.
And today I am joined by Mr.
Michael J.
Frank.
unknown (00:14):
Michael, how are you?
SPEAKER_00 (00:16):
Thank you.
I am good.
I woke up today.
I'm a happy guy.
SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
Above ground, winning.
Um it's I mean, that's a simplethat's it.
Next question.
SPEAKER_00 (00:28):
I'm a half full guy for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
The glass is always half full.
I'm uh you can always refill it.
So drink it all.
Um and anything worth doing isworth overdoing, Michael.
All right.
General rule of me.
Michael, take a moment.
SPEAKER_00 (00:43):
Introduce yourself and what it is you do.
Uh Michael J.
Frank out of uh Milburn, NewJersey, a former floor trader
and a specialist who exited to apublic company a couple decades
ago, been mentoring startups.
I've uh mentored lots of people,a father of three, married for
(01:04):
36 years, and now a co-founderwith two millennials in a
community called Guilder.
We provide access to mentors,tools, and events to help build
a successful company.
We believe we can empoweranybody at any stage of their
career.
I'm on uh five advisory boards.
One is a nonprofit, the rest arefor-profit, and I run a small
fund that called NovationVentures.
(01:24):
Excuse me, I'm a principal in asmall fund called Novation
Ventures, and we invest in brainhealth startups.
So it's a neurodevelopment,neurodegenerative things like
Alzheimer's Autism, AHD,Tourette's.
I like working.
They never retire, and I work uhsix or seven days a week.
I enjoy it.
unknown (01:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
You know, it's funny.
A lot of the unscrews Iinterview, they have friends
who've retired, and some haveexited this planet, and others
have just lost their mind.
They're like, yeah, I'm I'mnever shutting it down.
It's too much fun.
And I think I honestly thinkthat's because if you have fun
doing it, it's not work.
People call it work becauseyou're not golfing, but golfing
can be frustrating.
I mean, like, I don't know aboutyou, but I can only go so many
(02:01):
times in a week without wantingthrow my clubs in the woods.
I'm not leader at that.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Yeah, I'm not uh spending five hours golfing.
I I think I enjoy more riding inthe golf course and the
commodity ship than the golfing.
You can golf really well, andthen you can not even, at least
for me, not even hit the ballproperly.
Um I had a grandfather who had abusiness and success, very
successful business in the uhEast Coast and record stores and
(02:26):
audio, and he sold the companyand thought he's gonna go paint,
and he died not too shortlyafter.
I have a bunch of friends, Icall them pips, previously
important people.
Um, they are on the golf course,retired.
They think they're happy.
Um, I think they're brain deadand know nothing about anything,
including AI or anything but butwhat they read on whatever you
know channel they're watching orsomething.
(02:48):
And yeah, I kind of feel bad forthem.
Like they're just they're done.
Like they're just stepping intothe grave, and I'm not I'm
nowhere near there.
SPEAKER_01 (02:57):
Yeah, what's interesting, right?
And and we'll we'll get to yourstuff, but I think that's a good
point because it sets the tonefor you and what we're about to
talk about in your journey.
But but I think what I think thesadder thing is, is like, and
and this ties to what you'redoing, I believe, is that
there's so much knowledge asbeing a successful person
getting there.
The to not actively go give thatwisdom, let's say not knowledge,
(03:19):
but wisdom to a group that'shungry for it, to me seems just
criminal.
Like you should definitely dothat.
And because there's a phase inyour life, you know, I'm I'm
just starting almost at 50 whereI I want to mentor people
because I've learned a lot andand I'm doing I do so.
I love it.
So let's start with this, firstof all.
Before we get on your journey,please define success.
(03:40):
What does that mean to youtoday?
SPEAKER_00 (03:43):
I think it's different than what I thought it
meant when I was younger.
Success to me meant when they'reyounger that they had the
Porsche turbo and vacations andspend ridiculous money on stupid
things.
Um now, to me, doing the rightthing all the time, working with
people, building guilder andinvesting in people that are
(04:05):
gonna make a difference.
Um but success to me, havingdinner with the family and them
around, and hopefully, somegrandkids one day where I could
be a um I'll call it an icecream and candy grandfather.
SPEAKER_01 (04:20):
Oh yeah.
Get them jacked up and here yougo.
You always wanted this as you'rea kid.
SPEAKER_00 (04:25):
Yeah, yeah.
Now I I, you know, like raisingchildren is freaking hard and
it's expensive, and there's lotsof issues that go on.
And and we've sort of done that,and now being empty nesters,
I've jumped completely.
I was a trader and sold acompany, but I jumped completely
into sort of somethingdifferent, and it took me a long
time to get up to speed.
(04:47):
Um, and my wife has foundsuccess working at the JCC in a
memory care unit where sheprovides programming for people
with memory issues, which isscary.
And maybe Novation Venturesinvest in someone who comes up
with one of the pieces to theanswer to Alzheimer's, which is
like super scary to me.
SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
Yeah, it is.
We think that one offline.
I got some ideas on that.
So uh give give me a little bitabout your journey.
And what was the biggest uhmetaphoric tie, so to speak, to
to achieve that success you justdefined?
SPEAKER_00 (05:20):
I went to Northeastern thinking I was
gonna be a pharmacist.
Um Boston, great town, love it.
Um took a job at the localliquor store.
I was more interested in doingdrugs than learning to be a
pharmacist and chasing skirt anddoing the things that many
people do in college, maybe lessso now because you know I don't
(05:42):
know, maybe I was just spoiledand didn't understand it or
immature.
Um and I finished up at FairleyDickinson.
And while my brother was acouple years ahead of me at
Fairley, he met his uh wife tobe, and the father-in-law was
involved in the stock market,and I started understanding, and
my brother spent one year on thetrading floor and made twice
(06:04):
what my dad made working 25years for a company.
And I said to myself, oh my God,this is me.
And I started riding in the backof this car.
I wasn't allowed to talk.
You know, going every day fromthe Fort Lee area into the
American Stock Exchange with thetop-down, with all the buses
spewing at the time and type ofthing.
Uh, but I got to learn and I gotto go on the floor, and uh
(06:25):
eventually I took some money andsome borrowed money and went
down to the Philadelphia StockExchange and experienced uh a
place where the harder you workand the better you do, the you
make a lot of money.
And it was like, what is this?
And it's it's very hard todescribe.
And I try and point to peoplelike trading, the look of
trading, you could sort of seeit on some of the news channels.
(06:47):
Sometimes they show them yellingand screaming.
But there was a famous movie, acomedy called Trading Places
with Eddie Murphy and DanAckroyd, and it's got a lot
going on in there with thesocial stuff, but there's a
great trading scene there in thecommodities pit and the juice
crop comes out.
But you know, trading is noteasy.
There's two aspects to it it'suh the math and understanding it
(07:08):
and volatility and and skew andketosis and all these things
that would be hard to describe,but trying to manage risk and
being in a crowd and addingliquidity.
Um but the second part is tryingto do this.
Like I've seen really smartpeople, PhDs come down, but
standing in the crowd all dayand yelling and trying to get
people's attention and get atrade done and making sure it
clears and making sure you keepbookkeeping on it, you hedge it
(07:31):
properly and you get your hedgesoff is a whole nother animal.
Uh so both of them together arehard to do.
Um and it sort of doesn't existanymore.
They've gone completelyelectronic.
I don't think it has the sameliquidity it it did in the past.
I understand now with Bitcoinand all the currencies that um
those pits in other countriesare very, very lucrative.
(07:53):
And this almost makes me want tosort of come out of retirement
and go back go back to the floorin some way.
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
Yeah.
Well, you can you can do itdigitally at any point, right?
You've got to get the rightright technology set up behind
you.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:06):
But it's a the floor game is completely the digital
floor game is completelydifferent.
But um on the floor itself forliquidity with all these
customers, so we'll see.
SPEAKER_01 (08:15):
So so the the metaphor tie, so to speak, has
been the move from thathigh-intensity wealth
environment to uh where you aretoday, where it's a different
focus and helping and and andit's just it's a completely
different lifestyle.
Is that the fair that it'sgetting getting through that?
Or what will how would youdefine that tie?
SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
You have like I did okay, and I had an exit to a
public company, so I can'tcomplain.
And they came off the floor, um,still had huge positions that
were still winding down.
We sold us, I sold thespecialist books.
Um, everyone was super happywith bonuses and everything.
And some people moved on, andsome people uh went to the other
company.
Um, and then I got to coach allthree children and all of
(08:57):
exports here in town and bearound a lot, so that was great.
And then after that, I wassearching for something to sort
of do properly.
Um, and you go through anexploration of like, you know,
what am I gonna do?
I I I know my skill set doesn'tsort of exist anymore.
I can't apply it.
So I have to try and retoolmyself and uh and retool my
(09:18):
brain.
And I was there for 9-11 at theAmerican Stock Exchange, and uh
that definitely messed with myhead for sure.
In hindsight, I can understand.
Um, then I didn't understand it.
And it was right in the middleof my exit.
So trying to find something anddo something um and make some
money and feel good aboutyourself because no matter how
(09:41):
much money you have or don'thave, if you're not productive
and doing things and helpingpeople and making some money,
you quickly become disillusionaland you know, start just going
down rabbit holes and stuff likethat.
And I sort of ran into a lot ofpeople that were not who they
said they are liars or cheaters,telling you this and that.
(10:02):
And I went down a bunch ofdifferent things and lost some
money realizing that uh I waslooking for something, but it
certainly wasn't gonna be withthose people.
SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
Yeah.
Well, I know typically there's alot of moments that lead up to
saying, I'm done with this, I'mgoing on to the next thing.
Do you remember your exactmoment?
SPEAKER_00 (10:19):
No, it was a cumulation of just what the F am
I gonna do with myself?
Like, like eventually you'rejust sort of um doing things.
I eventually um in the office Iwas in after selling the
company, I hooked up with a guyand we built Investance, which
was a digital wealth managementplatform commonly known as a
(10:40):
Robo Advisor.
We're B2C, we moved to B2B, welanded this giant bank, UOB out
of Singapore.
They weren't uh they were stilldoing transactional business,
and everyone else in the most ofthe world in the US was on
asset-based stuff, so guaranteedincome versus waiting for
commissions.
Um, and we built this platform,and I thought, you know, we're
gonna sell this thing for ahundred million bucks, we're
(11:02):
just gonna kill it.
Um, except the UOB bank, if theyhave 10 people on a panel and
all 10 of them don't say yes,and nine say yes, they don't
move forward so quick.
On the trading floor, if youhave a 60 or 70 percent
confidence in a trade, likeyou're just laying it on, like
you're assessing it all thetime.
Um, and then in the middle ofthat, uh as far as gum says shit
(11:25):
happens, and the CEO's wife gotpancreatic cancer, and that is
not a good thing.
Um, and anyone who typically hasit is very tough.
Um, and that was the sort of theend of the company.
And I had no objections to himgoing home and spending time
with the family and doingwhatever he could.
Like I'm like, yeah, me familyfirst.
I always tell my childrengrowing up, I'm like, the
(11:47):
family's us.
It has nothing to do with thatbig house we're in or the little
house we're in or anything.
Like, I'll be happy with youguys anywhere, like as long as
I'm around my family.
Um, so what from there I startedmentoring startups out of new
chip and other things, and thatwas definitely worthwhile.
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
I love that.
When you when you start makingthe move, right?
Uh talk about the how.
What were the things you had todo different, change?
I mean, I mean, I asked people,like, you it could be I had to
stop spinning this, I had to goto therapy.
Well, like, how did you how didyou make the move?
Because I mean that's a big one,right?
To go from what you identifiedas thought to shit, what what's
(12:24):
next?
Like, give me some hows.
SPEAKER_00 (12:27):
Um, you know, the investments gig after being in
the office and sort of thinkingI'm trading and I'm gonna do
good, and I got this money andI'm smarter than the average
bear.
Like, you quickly just get hitover the head on a regular
basis.
Um, and those are just badthoughts to always have.
Like when you think you'refaster or better, like whatever.
(12:49):
Like, no, there's lots of smartpeople in the world, and uh, we
find that all the time.
Um, but the investments thing,like we had something, we were
too green in like the startupecosystem, not understanding how
to raise capital properly andhow hard that is to build a
funnel and and other things.
And uh I could point out a dozenthings that the CEO did that in
(13:12):
hindsight, you know, I wastrying to get him not to do
that, but just let, you know,like I I rest, I rest some of
the fault of the downfall ofthat on me and us.
Um, but from there it was, youknow, trying to build something
else.
So I started mentoring startupsout of New Chip and had a bunch
of shares from doing that.
And uh I had met the reason Igot to New Chip was I was at a
(13:35):
uh event in Hoboken calledPropellified, right on the
water, looking at New York.
It's beautiful, it's allstartups.
And I had met uh Mehesh, anothermillennial.
Um I work with all thesemillennials and they work really
hard.
And we formed uh he was over atNew Chip and I went over to
mentor and I just found itsatisfying.
Like I'm just talking withpeople and startups, and maybe
they're not looking at me forthe sort of the math, but like,
(13:58):
you know, building things ishard and like waking up every
day is hard.
And when you're trading and youget beat up trading, and you got
to come in the next day, knowingyou're probably getting beat up
because you already saw what thestock market's doing the after
hours of your particular stock,it's freaking hard, like showing
up, like you're you're alreadytaking, you know, a five-figure
loss or something or whatever itmight be.
Um, but I learned to just get upand go in every day, like you
(14:21):
know, wake up and do it, andlike, you know, gotta do it and
just do the best you can.
And on the trading floor, asgood as you are one day, maybe
you're not so good the next day,and that humbles you on a
regular basis.
And it allows you to understandthat uh nothing is easy.
There's a lot of lot of bumps inthe road.
And from there, when a new chipactually collapsed, they'd taken
(14:43):
on a lot of debt and they weretrying to sort of growth hack it
at the wrong time.
And at the time, Mahesh wasbeing offered like the CEO job
to go in there.
And I was sort of mentoring himat the same time a little bit.
I'm like, nah, you don't want totouch that.
That's like so dirty already.
They're just gonna go intobankruptcy or something, and
then your name is gonna beinvolved.
(15:04):
Um, so he lost a significantamount of shares.
I lost way less shares.
Um, but I had met two people,Brian and Tiger, who worked
there.
And Brian was running all thementors, and I was one of the
original mentors, but now theyhad, you know, I don't know,
thousands of them.
And I'm like, what are you gonnado?
And you know, they didn't evenget paid the last two weeks.
Um and we formed Gilder out ofthat, like after a while.
(15:26):
And I get to work with uh Brianout of Chicago and Tiger out of
Missoula, Montana, and uh theywork hard, like even harder than
me.
I think Brian's probably working80 hours a week.
He's got a second company, a PhDwife, a one and a half-year-old
baby.
Like, I'm not even sure how hedoes it sometimes.
Um, I my guess is 80 hoursminimum week.
That's my guess.
SPEAKER_01 (15:45):
Wow.
I have I have a question.
So when you were doing yourtrading, was there ever a number
in your head?
If I hit this, go into treasurybills, 5%, I'm good.
SPEAKER_00 (15:54):
Yes.
And I hit that number.
And then that was my nextquestion, and then what'd you
give them?
And then I got in my head that,and I'm married 36 years, and I
got in my head that and I don'tthink my ever discussed this,
but I got in my head that Ineeded enough money to say I've
had enough, and here's yourhalf.
(16:17):
And that was a downfall.
That was really, really badbecause I had a great wife and a
great family, but you start, youknow, you exited, you got this
cash, you're like, I want I wanta younger wife.
I want a wife that maybe wantsto do things more often than
this wife or something likethat.
And uh that was a downfall.
So I started sort of tradingdifferently, and I realized that
(16:41):
maybe the money I made wasn'tfrom my particular trading, but
was from the overall setup ofall the traders and managing
risk.
And maybe I wasn't the traderthat I thought I was.
Not maybe, I definitely wasn'tthe trader I thought I was, and
that was costly that thinking,and not realizing that being
(17:01):
married to someone who's thereall the time when going through
9-11, and that's just a wholenother story.
But I actually in 2020 got sick,and then you know, it just whole
thinking sort of changes whenyou think that maybe you're not
gonna wake up the next day umand you realize how important
(17:25):
family really is, family andfriends and keeping them close.
As well as getting rid of anypeople that are not positive and
good for you.
Um you have to exercise themlike cancer and just get rid of
them and not do that.
And and 20 years ago, we gave upwatching any news whatsoever,
whether ABC, DFR, uh we didn'tneed to see the mayhem and
(17:48):
stuff.
That's it.
We just won't watch it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:51):
No, you're you're uh you're spawn.
You know, it's like a watersource, right?
We all drink from it, but onetoxic element into it affects
everyone around it, and you gotyou gotta get rid of it.
SPEAKER_00 (17:59):
And sometimes I recently had a friend of 30
years who every time I spoke tohim, I felt like shit after my
friend.
And finally I said to him,called through one time, like,
hey, we're done.
So what do you mean?
I said, please don't call meagain.
I'm never gonna call you again.
I feel lousy every time I getdone.
Maybe you're trying to you'renot doing this on purpose, but
(18:20):
um, we're done.
And that was that.
And I felt good.
Like uh, like, all right, Idon't need to have some anger.
Yeah, whatever.
Like, I don't I don't need that.
SPEAKER_01 (18:29):
No, you you're you're right.
And so that I guess very, Imean, maybe uh, you know, kind
of the uh thing I always ask iskind of advice for listeners,
would that be the advice, orwould you have something else
for them?
SPEAKER_00 (18:40):
I think advice is there is no problem that's
insurmountable.
Uh talk to your friends, yourmentors, older people with the
experience.
Get up every day, put your pantson or your or your skirt on or
whatever it is you want, and goand go, or both, and go and go
do something and get out there.
(19:01):
So I have a bunch of friends.
Um, I have a friend who justinherited a bunch of money and
he thinks he's sort of going toretire.
And I'm like, you can't retire.
I said, just go go take a job,go to the church or the
synagogue, soup kitchen, homedepot, Trader Joe's, go work 20
hours a week, keep yourselfbusy, keep yourself in the game.
Very important as you get olderto uh wake up, have something to
(19:25):
go to, to do something, and notsit around listening to whatever
it is on you know these talkshows and things like that.
That stuff will just rot yourbrain.
Uh, just like thinking thatyou're gonna golf every day,
maybe physically for your body,it's okay, but you have to have
other stimuli and other things.
SPEAKER_01 (19:41):
Yeah, you do.
And I, you know, the idea is theadvice I've heard from lots of
guys is take a sabbatical, havea shit ton of fun, and get back
in.
Like so go for a year and go dosomething fun.
All the stuff on the list, andthen come back in and figure
something else to go do.
SPEAKER_00 (19:56):
So we are in we are in an age of AI and people don't
understand it, but whenelectricity came about, it
changed the human race.
When the computer came about, itchanged the human race.
Two significant things.
AI, I believe is even biggerthan that.
And I see it being implementedeverywhere in all our startups
(20:16):
at Gilder, and it's gonna changethe world for the better.
And maybe like in the future, Idon't know if you watch Star
Trek, but like in the future,they have the replicators, they
have unlimited energy, unlimitedfood, and all this stuff.
And maybe that's where we'reeventually heading with AI, and
hopefully not Terminator, wherethey realize that we're humans
(20:36):
are dumb and that they they needto get rid of us for our sake.
SPEAKER_01 (20:42):
There'll be a man behind the curtain as there
always is with that scenario.
All right, for sure.
Uh what do you uh what's the tietoday you're trying to cut that
that you're struggling with?
SPEAKER_00 (20:53):
Um I've been trying for five years and maybe too
long to get on a paid boardseat.
Um and I was thinking I would beon a public board seat, but
maybe the fiduciary risk thereis too much.
But private equity, I own a lotof companies, maybe board
members, um eSops,employee-owned companies, and
(21:15):
privately owned companies.
So I'm working towards that.
I've been working towards thatfor five years, and I take
endless amounts of CP creditsthrough Ernston Young and
Deloitte and KPMG, and I spend alot of time on LinkedIn posting
and talking about things.
And that's my wall that I'vebeen climbing for some time.
And I think I'm getting close,and I won't give up because
(21:37):
that's my future.
So as maybe Gilda gets biggerand I I maybe we sell it one day
or not, or whatever, but I'dlike to go sit on some boards.
And with what I understand andmy entrepreneurial journey and
my diversity of thought and uhthe way I think of things, I
think I could be very helpful tocompanies with bigger budgets.
I'm on five of these boards now,they pay just in shares, and one
(22:00):
of them is a nonprofit where thegentleman spent 12 years in
federal penitentiary for drugcharges, and I do that for free,
and I like working with them.
And he's spoken to over 6,000people, 10 and 20 at a time, at
risk youth, right?
Drugs and violence is not theanswer.
Uh so I give back that way.
Um, I'm happy to do it.
And my journey is uh a paidboard seat.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
Uh some some rapid fire, sir.
So what was probably the uh bestor worse business advice you've
ever received?
SPEAKER_00 (22:30):
The best business advice I've ever seen.
Um or the worst.
I'm not sure I can answer thatrapid fire.
Um let me think about it.
What's the next question?
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
Uh well, maybe okay.
So maybe a book.
Give me a book you thinkeveryone should read.
SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
Um, one of the books that I think everyone should
read if they're building astartup um is is uh I'm not
gonna know the name of it, butwe'll look over and tell you
it's a venture deals by Feld.
If you're raising capital, ifyou're building a company, you
have to read that to understandthat.
The best business advice I evergot, I think is just show up
(23:10):
every day.
Like you've got to just show upevery day at the right time,
sober, ready to go, and and andand do the best thing.
Um, but very clearly um treatyour employees really well and
listen to what they have to sayand take care of them and do the
right thing there.
The worst business advice, um,I'd have to go back to one of
(23:31):
the trades that I probably puton too much and took too much
risk.
Um there's just a lot of them.
Um and that's part of the wholethinking of when you're trading
and you know how much money youwant to make and what you're
trying to do.
SPEAKER_01 (23:45):
Now, if you had to go back in your timeline, any
point you wanted to go, whenwould you go back?
What would you do differently?
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
I'd go back to 1980, 81, when I was on the floor of
the Philadelphia Stock Exchange,and I would have learned better
what the math was behindtrading.
Because I was standing in thecloud, buying on the bid,
selling in the offer of options,and the guy next to me wearing
computer vision, and it wasabout 18% interest rates, and he
(24:13):
was just doing reversals.
So he's selling the stock,buying the call, and selling the
put for even and making hugemoney, a million a year,
standing next to me while I wasmaking, you know, 5,000 a month,
and I was just too young andchasing too much skirt to work
on the math and understand whathe was doing or what I should
have been doing.
And had I done that earlier, itwould have changed the
(24:36):
trajectory of my business andwhat I was doing.
And I was just too immature touh understand it.
SPEAKER_01 (24:42):
Another example answer is on the exit, I put it
all in Bitcoin.
That would have been fine too.
I would have gone that way.
SPEAKER_00 (24:47):
I was looking at Bitcoin when it's two or three
hundred, and I actually sort ofdanced around a little bit, and
I saw it go up a lot and thencome down.
And my trading sense said to me,This is going higher.
And I will tell you this mytrading sense at a hundred and
what is it now?
19,000 um says it's goinghigher.
And mathematically it's gonna goto a million, like it's gonna
(25:09):
run out in the movie.
No, there's no there's no suchthing as that math.
That's all BS.
It's gonna run out.
They're gonna it's a it's ayeah, but it's it then it'll be
just uh, you know, somethingthat people own.
But the um in our lifetimesit'll get to a million.
I think there's a possibility,but if quantum computing comes
through quicker and they couldbreak the chain and then you can
make all the bitcoin you want,it's going to zero.
(25:30):
Um, and people don't understandthat.
I doubt that's ever happening,but people are recommending
everyone have 1% in Bitcoin.
They have ETFs now.
So I think there's just anunderlying bid for effort.
So my guess is it's goinghigher.
I'm not a buyer and I think itcomes in hard, but from is it
from a million or three hundredthousand or a hundred and
eighteen thousand?
I have no idea.
SPEAKER_01 (25:51):
Well, you I I like the idea.
No matter what you put yourmoney in about 10 years later,
you can take it out.
You've done you've done great.
At any point, didn't matterwhere you're in the cycle, just
put it in 10 years later, you'regood.
The market has done the markethas done very well.
Yeah.
Uh I think your last question isif there was a question I should
have asked you, but I didn't,what would that question have
been?
SPEAKER_00 (26:13):
Um what's the most important thing in your life?
SPEAKER_01 (26:18):
How would you answer it?
SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
Gotta be my family.
That's it.
I give everything up, you know,everything up for the family.
Um, and even at this age, maybeeven my, you know, given a
choice of, you know, them or meor something, like I've lived a
decent life.
Like I want them to move on andstuff.
So uh I have a son and twodaughters, they're all doing
(26:40):
well, they're off our dime.
They actually recently bought usdinner and a and and a spa, we a
one-day spa thing.
It's like kind of weird to haveyour children buying things for
you when the money's all gonethe other way.
But uh no, family is whateverything is important, family
and friendship.
And when you have friends andyou text them or call them up
and you haven't spoken to themin a year, a good friend just
(27:02):
says, Hey, how are you?
What's going on?
And a friend that's not a goodfriend maybe says, you know, oh,
you don't call me or anything.
Like my friend just pick up theconversation like it was just
yesterday.
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
Yeah, that's a good friend.
Thank you for coming on, by theway.
To tell everyone how, or well,who do you want to get a hold of
you and how do you want them todo that?
SPEAKER_00 (27:19):
Uh Michael J.
Frank, I'm on LinkedIn.
You could find me there um andyou can message me there.
That would be great.
Or on Michael at Gilder.com uhfor email.
G-I-L-D-R-E.
SPEAKER_01 (27:31):
Michael, thank you so much for coming on today.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (27:34):
I appreciate it.
Um a million subscribers, how doI say no, sir?
SPEAKER_01 (27:38):
Right?
Come on.
If you say if you want to, Sam.
Listen, everyone who made it tothis point in the show, thank
you so much.
You know, I I want you to getout there, define your success,
and you know, cut the ties ofwhatever it is holding you back.
Again, listen, if it's yourfirst time here, hope it's the
first of many.
And if you've been here before,thanks for coming back.
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