September 9, 2025 • 22 mins
Cut The Tie Podcast with Laurie Jane Roth
What happens when talented professionals keep getting passed over despite great résumés? In this episode of Cut The Tie, Thomas Helfrich talks with Laurie Jane Roth, founder of The Inside Game and a 25-year IT recruiting veteran. Laurie reveals the real reasons candidates fail interviews, why soft skills outweigh technical skills, and how she helps mid-career executives stop feeling invisible and start landing offers.
About Laurie Jane Roth:
Laurie Jane Roth built her career in IT recruiting, spending 25 years at the decision table hearing what hiring managers really say. Today she leads The Inside Game, where she coaches professionals—from college grads to executives—on how to interview with confidence, stand out in a crowded market, and win roles others can’t. With deep insider perspective and proven coaching methods, Laurie helps candidates cut ties with defeat and rebuild their path to success.
In this episode, Thomas and Laurie discuss:
- The myth of “being good is enough”
Why many skilled professionals still fail interviews without intentional preparation. - Inside the hiring conversation
The unfiltered reasons candidates get rejected—and why they’re rarely about skills. - From defeated to confident
How Laurie meets candidates where they are and rebuilds both strategy and mindset. - The résumé red flags
Why titles like “Founder/Owner” can hurt—and how “Consultant” opens doors. - Defining success with purpose and freedom
Why impact and autonomy matter more than titles or job stability.
Key Takeaways:
- Soft skills decide the outcome. Technical expertise won’t save poor delivery.
- Rebuild confidence first. Interview success starts with belief and structure.
- Own your story. Clarity beats “I can do everything.”
- Adapt or evolve. When industries shift, reinvention is the only option.
Connect with Laurie Jane Roth:
🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurie-jane-roth-084769/
🔗 The Inside Game on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/www.dsn-it.com/
Connect with Thomas Helfrich:
🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/thelfrich
📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/cutthetiegroup
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomashelfrich/
🌐 Website: https://www.cutthetie.com
✉️ Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
🚀 InstantlyRelevant: https://instantlyrelevant.com
Serious about LinkedIn Lead Generation? Stop Guessing what to do on LinkedIn and ignite revenue from relevance with Instantly Relevant Lead System
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Cut the Tide podcast.
Hello, I'm your host, thomasHelfrich, and I'm on that
mission to help you cut a tide,whatever it is holding you back
from the success that you own,the one you defined yourself.
And today I am joined by LoriJane.
Lori Jane, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Good.
How are you today?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I am delicious.
Thursdays are my film day, sowe're not going to say what
Thursday of what month this was,but it is a Thursday.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
So that's what you're doing on Thursdays.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
That's it 10 to 12 a day.
Then tell 10 to 12 a week.
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Oh, wow, Okay.
So before we get started, eventhough you're running this show,
I must tell you you have anincredible podcast radio voice
and you are doing exactly whatyou need to be doing.
Your voice is so smooth.
It's great.
It's perfect for this.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Just that I would tell you.
I appreciate that and I'm athere's an alter ego channel
that I have ah it's sexy voiceguy, if you google it oh yeah,
it's perfect for pot that's it.
It's true, it's a truestatement.
Actually, it's actually where Ido my fun.
It's more okay, yeah, later,but tonight I want you to
introduce yourself, lori Jane.
Who are you?
What is it you do?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Okay, lori Jane Roth and I am the founder of the
Inside Game, where it's backedby 25 years of IT recruiting,
and I work primarily with anyonefrom a college grad to
mid-level professionals whoright now are feeling very
(01:28):
invisible, and I coach them andgive them a strategy to be
successful.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
You are spot on with the middle, kind of like the VP
executive, the director.
That's kind of feeling oh boy,I'm on the chopping block at any
point, Right.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Absolutely yeah.
And the biggest myth out thereis that, um, people feel like,
listen, I'm really good at whatI do.
I, I get this, don't worryabout me, I'm going to go in and
knock them dead.
But nothing could be furtherfrom the truth.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, and and now it's.
It's like we will.
We're going to focus on yourjourney and kind of the
metaphoric ties you've cut, butyou are in a competitive coach
space.
Why do your customers orclients pick you Like?
What's your unique?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, I didn't realize that when I started to
do the coaching, that it wascompetitive, because I just feel
like I'm so good at what I do.
But I guess it is competitive.
But what makes me a littledifferent is that I've been at
the decision-making table and Ihear what they say.
They say, listen, don't saythis to the candidate because we
(02:37):
don't want to freak them out orwe don't want to have any
lawsuits.
But this is why we passed onthem.
Have any lawsuits, but this iswhy we passed on them.
I hear this and I've heard itfor 20, 25 years, because I'm
able to get inside with them tosay you know, really, come on,
why are you passing on thisperson?
They're great.
Okay, they might be great.
I couldn't get this guy to shutup.
I, you know, the guy shows uplate, he's all disheveled, his
(03:02):
communication style was all overthe place.
So all of this I just puttogether as part of my strategy
and it's really about the softskills and, yeah, and I'm able
to present it in a way that myclients trust me.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
My wife went through like a out of nowhere layoff at
the end of the last year and allthe interviews, great stuff,
never get feedback and it issuch a broken part of the system
that you can never actually getdirect feedback of why you were
passed on and or why they chosesomebody else.
Sometimes the reasons, quitehonestly, are not legal.
(03:36):
I don't want somebody that old,I don't like their color of
skin, like all those things arereal, yes, but the ones that
would be helpful would be hey,talk too much, didn't ask,
really didn't ask any questions.
Answers were all over, likethose kinds of feedback pieces
for the employers, let's say,that are fair, that are truly
(03:57):
looking for the best candidatewould be really.
There should be some kind ofmechanism to do that and so
you're.
Are you doing that for acandidate or how are you getting
the inside scoop?
Because, like most employerswon't, they won't sniff it,
touch it, because of how thatmight be interpreted for equal
opportunities and things likethat.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, that's being in the business for 25 years, I've
been able to get thisinformation from clients I've
known for really very well.
I mean, we go out to dinnertogether, we go out to lunch
together.
I mean I actually took a bunchof IT guys out about 15 years
ago it was a while back and Isaid come on, guys, what's with
(04:37):
these really tough technicaltests that nobody can get by?
Can you answer these questions?
And they all looked at eachother and I said, hmm, not
really.
No, I said, why are you doingthat?
And they just, you know, theyjust laughed.
I could never get a straightanswer, but that's just.
You know that I digress there,but usually it's they talk too
much, they don't ask the rightquestions.
(04:58):
They, you know again, they comein disheveled, they're all over
the place.
They were like really nervous,so nervous I couldn't get beyond
that.
And sometimes they'll actuallysay we want a woman for this job
or we want a guy for this joband we want somebody between
this age and this age.
And it's really a lot to dowith the soft skills versus they
(05:22):
didn't really know what theywere talking about.
I very rarely get that feedback.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, and in your own journey here, before we kind of
get going, I jokingly say, likeas a fellow ADHDer, let's give
them something to look at whilethey're listening to you talk.
Give you one link, because ifyou give an ADHDer two links,
it's over for you.
Give you one link that someoneshould stalk you a bit while
you're talking this afternoon.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Two links.
It's over for you.
I'll give you one link thatsomeone should stalk you a bit
while you're talking thisafternoon.
Linkedin for sure, DefinitelyLinkedIn.
I did just post a YouTube videoon hiring health stories, but
that would be the best way.
Follow me on the inside gameand on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
It's Lori-Jane-Roth-a bunch of numbers 084-696.
We'll talk about getting thereand nail it in a little bit,
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
So, lori, before we get into your journey, how do
you define success?
I think success for me, thomas,would be partially like impact
and freedom.
If I feel like I'm beingimpactful in somebody's life and
I've made a difference, and ifsomebody reaches out to me and
they say, oh, I followed whatyou said and it was great advice
and I got moved to the nextround.
(06:34):
Or somebody says, oh, I lovewhen you told me to do that,
about how I add value.
At the very end he said I didthat.
It sounded great.
That, to me, makes me veryhappy.
And the second part would befreedom freedom to just do what
I want to do.
I don't make a very goodfollower, I'm a better leader.
So if I can have the freedom todo my own thing, I'm very happy
(06:57):
with that.
It's success.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
To me it's a popular answer and it doesn't make it a
bad answer.
Purpose plus the cap and dirt,you know, captain of your
calendar.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Really good measures of success, because it provides
the mental space and the humanspace to feel like you're doing
something throughout your entireday that adds value to you and
I I wish more people could feelthat the trick is making money
to do it.
So let's talk about yourjourney a little bit, um.
So just walk us through liketake a few minutes to talk about
you.
You talked about a little bitof it, but in your pursuit of
(07:30):
that definition of success inyour journey, tell me about some
ties maybe the metaphoricalones or physical ones you've had
to cut.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
People say purpose all the time.
I mean, I've listened to a lotof your podcasts and people
always bring that up.
But when you don't have purposebecause you find it in other
areas, you find it in drinkingand drugs and shopping and
(07:58):
gambling and anything to fillthat void.
So when you don't have thatpurpose, you really do feel it.
So when you get that purpose,people say how do you know?
You just know.
I mean, it's just, this is whatI'm meant to do, but you know.
So, in answer to my journey onwhat made me want to cut the tie
, well, I've been doing this forso many years, almost 25 years,
(08:21):
and this last year has beenlike nothing I've ever seen.
You know, actually, it was 2024when I just said this is like a
weird market.
I have openings, I have goodpeople that I'm working with,
I'm applying the same formulathat I've always applied to make
things happen, but yet nothingwas happening.
And then I started reading allof this stuff on LinkedIn about
(08:44):
how many people are out of workand then their experiences, and
I said I don't know if I can dothis, you know, be in this
industry anymore.
I mean, here, I have devotedlike 25 years of my life to this
and it's changing right beforemy eyes and I thought I could do
this well into retirement.
So I had to make a decisionright then and there to cut the
(09:04):
tie and to evolve into somethinga little different, which is
the coaching.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, inside game.
It's incredibly insightful andyou couldn't ask for a better
platform than LinkedIn, who, Iguess the birth of it, the best
content to, typically aroundgetting jobs as core.
That's, I think, what LinkedInstill identifies as a
professional place to build acareer.
Get jobs.
That's where they make theirmoney.
Right, yeah, is in businesses,advertising, but specifically
(09:37):
it's more in HR posting work.
You know when you're cuttingthose ties along the way, right
Define, like the one that wasthe hardest, though, like what
was the?
How would you label it?
Because you've listened to acouple shows, so, like you know
what, what, how would you labelthat?
That tie?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
the tie that I cut and why it was difficult yeah,
like, why was that one soimportant?
Speaker 1 (09:52):
like you, peel the onion on that one a little bit
for me um, probably.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Well, definitely the recruiting, because I've I'd
given so much of my life to that.
I'm very passionate about whatI do and I take the hits
personally because I get to knowpeople so very well.
I get to know about their life,their families, everything
about them, and it's a real winfor me when they win.
(10:18):
So that was probably the mostdifficult thing to do is to say
I can't believe that thisindustry has changed so much
that I have to give this up.
You know, after 25 years I meanI'm not probably going to
completely give it up, but Idefinitely have to evolve and do
something different.
And I remember the mostimportant part of what I do and
(10:40):
what I like the most is coachingpeople for that job.
And so I know a lot ofrecruiters will say well, this
is the location, this is the end.
Bring your resume, make sureyou dress well, make sure you do
.
You know you do some researchon the company.
But I do and I think I do itlike nobody else does which is
really preparing them for theinterview, telling them how to
(11:03):
come across, what to say, whatto do, and I think that's what
sets me apart from the otherrecruiters.
I think because I get thatfeedback from other, from my
candidates.
They say nobody preps me likethis, nobody does, nobody gives
me this type of information.
So it's really hard to walkaway from that for sure.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
You know, and I do, my company does a bit of.
We put in growth frameworks,basically for organizations to
grow their business.
But I do work with a handful ofexecutives that are in that
spot where they're trying toreinvent themselves or find that
next role, Because the higheryou go up in the food chain, the
harder it is to find whatpeople will buy.
Even if you have a really goodnetwork you got to still fit
(11:46):
perfectly.
Do you feel like people arelike the product and they're
trying to sell?
This is what I do and I'mcurious to hear if your take on
this.
I feel like they are theproduct and they're trying to
sell one thing to one person onetime, Instead of having a
service you may sell to multiplepeople.
Do you prepare them the ideaand their brand around that?
I do that concept that you weretrying to get this you across
(12:09):
the line to one fire.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
No, no, I feel like when I prepare them, I don't
prepare them for what they know.
I mean, they know what theyknow.
I don't really build a brandaround them, so to speak, but
what I do is I give them I walkthem through different scenarios
and what might occur I givethem a lot of soft skills.
Well, first of all, let me justgo back.
(12:33):
I get them where they are rightnow.
Okay, let's put your oars inthe water right now.
Tell me about your biggest painpoint.
What's the struggle?
Is your resume working?
Are you getting calls?
Are you getting interviews?
Okay, great, if that's working,then I go to the next one.
Okay, so are you interviewing?
Yes, are you getting jobsoffers?
(12:54):
No.
So I try to figure out wherethey are then and I prepare a
plan around that particularperson.
But, in answer to your question, I don't really have to brand
them.
I just want them to have enoughconfidence, because so many
people right now are so defeatedfrom everything that they've
(13:15):
been through.
I mean, I work with people thathave been out of work for a
year.
I mean a year, I mean 50, 60,75 interviews that they're going
on and nobody you know, and nojobs.
So they're pretty defeated.
By the time they get to methey're pretty war torn.
So I have to make sure that Iget them on a good place, build
(13:36):
their confidence back up andgive them some working,
actionable steps.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
It's interesting.
So a lot of the solopreneursthat we work with, they're your
exact same clients, but they'vegone through a thousand
interviews, a thousand you knowapplications on LinkedIn,
otherwise literally like athousand, and now they're
entrepreneurs.
And so I'm curious this is mytake on this as well.
I think others wonder this.
(14:02):
So there's that group thatwould really rather have the
steady W-2, but they're findingthemselves with, whatever it is,
ageism or just they're just nota fit.
For whatever reason, whateverit is, they can't find a job.
The person.
And so like well, like well, Igotta go do it myself.
I can't sit here and not makemoney, uh, but but once you put
the word founder on your, onyour linkedin resume, hr walks
(14:25):
right past that oh, absolutelyabsolutely.
I get rid of founder, or justthe sense that you are your own
business owner yes, get rid ofit.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, yeah, oh, that's a no-brainer.
Yeah, I mean somebody put ontheir resume I don't want to say
it because I've never seen itbefore and the person will know
I'm talking about them I'm like,well, what were they thinking?
Why would they possibly putthat?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Because it's something he's doing oh, you've
got to share it.
Now you have to.
Now it's a Pandora's box.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Oh my God, I don't know, but he's a watchmaker and
he put that on it and it's likewhy are you doing that?
Do you not want a job?
I mean things that I just shakemy head at and I think, why are
they doing that?
I mean you can put that stuffon your resume but bury that a
(15:14):
little bit further down yourresume, yeah, like a hobby.
I mean I don't even like to puthobbies there, because you
don't know who's reading thatresume and might look at that
hobby and they say, oh my God,my daughter was killed in doing
that and it might turn them off.
So anything personal I justtake off, get rid of it.
It's not necessary.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I think that's really good advice because it does
matter.
It's funny because my wifespeaks a different language,
slovak, and it's not a very bigcommunity of Slovak, but it got
her her last job to some degreebecause they were looking for
somebody in the US who did notgrow up there.
It's a company and they hiredher because she is US-based but
from another country company andthey hired that her because she
(15:57):
is us based, but from anothercountry.
So they, they, she had anunderstanding of central europe,
eastern europe, differentcultures, and it's interesting
because that difference was theone they picked up on that she
was native, fluid slovak name,all match, and they're like, oh,
we want to talk to her and Iwas like, damn, like you know
that found the perfectopportunity where some people
might leave that off yeah, yeah.
She left it in, she's like well,that's just kind of that's a
big thing Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
So she just got lucky .
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Well, but that's actually the job she wanted too
is one was globally.
That would value that.
So I think that would be like.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yes, that's excellent .
Speaker 1 (16:26):
So there's a balance between that.
But maybe a specific narrowlittle side business I'd
probably lead off, unless it'svery much so related to what
you're trying to go do.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yes, you want to be attractive on your resume, to
the masses.
You want to be widely looked at.
You want to be niche in somecategories, but you also want to
be widely accepted, and thenyou can narrow it down from
there.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I will tell you a technique that we do is we'll
look for people hiring a CMO ina certain size company, let's
say like 10 million or less andI'll contact the CEO and be like
hey, have you considered afractional CEO on the whole
marketing team for less than thecost of an intern?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And it'll work.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
We've seen that get pulled.
We're like we'll do that foryou and a lot more for way
cheaper than you're paying.
We'll talk'll talk.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
So there are creativity pieces behind it.
I think out there and I thinkthat once you're in the job
market, you're all in.
And when we coach on thebusiness side, if people are
kind of in between, I tell themyou cannot sit on two chairs.
If you want people to buy yourentrepreneurial services, you
have to own that.
Be that Right.
Entrepreneurial services, youhave to own that.
Be that.
You've got to own that.
Be that.
Now, it doesn't mean like youcouldn't be, like hey, I'm a
(17:39):
marketing manager and it couldbe your company, so it's like
you're doing contract work,would you agree?
That's a probably betterstrategy than putting founder
owner CEO.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
What I usually just put isconsultant.
I just say owner off and I justput consultant, because you
really are a consultant, youknow.
So you founded the company.
That's great, that can come upin conversation when you're on
the interview.
But to get someone to call you,I'd much rather them say
consultant than founder.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
What's your take on?
A company is very quick to passon a candidate that's had
two-year jobs moved on, but theirony being that a company will
do the exact same thing to youwithout even blinking.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
What's my take on it?
My take is, in IT is not likeany other animal.
Okay, people are being well,they're being recruited from
more money.
If you can't do the best thatyou can to retain your people,
they're going to leave,especially in technology, and
especially if you're very goodat what you do.
Okay, you better do everythingin your power to retain them,
(18:42):
because in IT they're leaving.
Two to three years is thenormal amount of attrition that
you're going to see.
If it's anything less thanthere, it may become a job
hopper situation, because evenin IT, you should be staying
bare minimum a year.
I don't like a year, so itshould be at least two years or
more, unless it's a contract.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Unless it's a contract, absolutely so, lori,
if there was a question I shouldhave asked you today, and I
didn't what would that questionhave been and how would you
answer it?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Oh sure, end on that.
What question should you haveasked, but you didn't Probably
do.
I think I can be successful inthis business when, as you said,
(19:33):
it was saturated with a lot ofdifferent coaches.
And why?
Answers Okay, yes, I truly dobelieve that I can be successful
in a saturated coachingindustry because I truly do
believe that I bring somethingdifferent, that I'm not
methodical, I don't base it ontheory.
(19:54):
I am right there in thetrenches.
I understand what these jobseekers are going through.
I call them my family, I canrelate to them and, yeah, I
think I can be very successfulin this.
I already am so.
So, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
I mean whenever you could bring real experience, and
I love the idea you just saidthat it's not just methodical,
like there's actual nuance toget someone to, because if it
was methodical then you might aswell just make a digital course
and call it a day.
And listen, there's a spot forthat.
If you just have any clue andyou just need some direction to
start, you might be too faralong to help some people
(20:32):
because they're like dude, youneed to get the basics right,
like first, and that might be aspace, but I agree with you.
If you have the mentality of Ican actually really help you get
whatever it is.
It is your.
That's based on experience, nottheory.
So, shameless blood for you.
Who should get ahold of you,then, and how do they do it?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Well, yeah, if you've been struggling to find a job
and you've tried everything,you've been pounding the
pavement, you're you know,you're really giving up on this
and you're wondering if youshould change careers or what's
going on, you're reallystruggling.
I can help you.
I sincerely believe, with allmy heart, that I have something
that you won't get anywhere elseand I'd love to love to work
(21:13):
with you.
And, yeah, go on the insidegame and LinkedIn, or follow me
on LinkedIn.
And I actually also have acourse, and I have a one-hour
session, of course, and I have aVIP session where I just walk
you through every steps ofeverything.
It's like having a coach inyour pocket.
I'm there every step of the waywith you on that.
But I think a lot of people getthe benefit from the one hour
(21:35):
session.
I point you in the rightdirection and I tell you.
You know where you need to goand what you need to do.
You know within an hour andthen I give you action steps to
follow up with.
You know after that.
So there's a walk away.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
So hit her on LinkedIn.
I think it's under Lori JaneRoth.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yes, it is, and the inside game is the coaching part
of that.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Awesome, yeah, thank you so much, by the way, for
coming on today.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Absolutely.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I appreciate it.
Anybody made it this far.
As you know.
If you've been here before, youneed to get out there.
Go cut the title.
Whatever's holding you backfrom your success?
Own that success.
Welcome to the Cut the Tide podcast.
Hello, I'm your host, thomasHelfrich, and I'm on that
mission to help you cut a tide,whatever it is holding you back
from the success that you own,the one you defined yourself.
And today I am joined by LoriJane.
Lori Jane, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Good.
How are you today?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I am delicious.
Thursdays are my film day, sowe're not going to say what
Thursday of what month this was,but it is a Thursday.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
So that's what you're doing on Thursdays.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
That's it 10 to 12 a day.
Then tell 10 to 12 a week.
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Oh, wow, Okay.
So before we get started, eventhough you're running this show,
I must tell you you have anincredible podcast radio voice
and you are doing exactly whatyou need to be doing.
Your voice is so smooth.
It's great.
It's perfect for this.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Just that I would tell you.
I appreciate that and I'm athere's an alter ego channel
that I have ah it's sexy voiceguy, if you google it oh yeah,
it's perfect for pot that's it.
It's true, it's a truestatement.
Actually, it's actually where Ido my fun.
It's more okay, yeah, later,but tonight I want you to
introduce yourself, lori Jane.
Who are you?
What is it you do?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Okay, lori Jane Roth and I am the founder of the
Inside Game, where it's backedby 25 years of IT recruiting,
and I work primarily with anyonefrom a college grad to
mid-level professionals whoright now are feeling very
(01:28):
invisible, and I coach them andgive them a strategy to be
successful.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
You are spot on with the middle, kind of like the VP
executive, the director.
That's kind of feeling oh boy,I'm on the chopping block at any
point, Right.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Absolutely yeah.
And the biggest myth out thereis that, um, people feel like,
listen, I'm really good at whatI do.
I, I get this, don't worryabout me, I'm going to go in and
knock them dead.
But nothing could be furtherfrom the truth.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, and and now it's.
It's like we will.
We're going to focus on yourjourney and kind of the
metaphoric ties you've cut, butyou are in a competitive coach
space.
Why do your customers orclients pick you Like?
What's your unique?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, I didn't realize that when I started to
do the coaching, that it wascompetitive, because I just feel
like I'm so good at what I do.
But I guess it is competitive.
But what makes me a littledifferent is that I've been at
the decision-making table and Ihear what they say.
They say, listen, don't saythis to the candidate because we
(02:37):
don't want to freak them out orwe don't want to have any
lawsuits.
But this is why we passed onthem.
Have any lawsuits, but this iswhy we passed on them.
I hear this and I've heard itfor 20, 25 years, because I'm
able to get inside with them tosay you know, really, come on,
why are you passing on thisperson?
They're great.
Okay, they might be great.
I couldn't get this guy to shutup.
I, you know, the guy shows uplate, he's all disheveled, his
(03:02):
communication style was all overthe place.
So all of this I just puttogether as part of my strategy
and it's really about the softskills and, yeah, and I'm able
to present it in a way that myclients trust me.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
My wife went through like a out of nowhere layoff at
the end of the last year and allthe interviews, great stuff,
never get feedback and it issuch a broken part of the system
that you can never actually getdirect feedback of why you were
passed on and or why they chosesomebody else.
Sometimes the reasons, quitehonestly, are not legal.
(03:36):
I don't want somebody that old,I don't like their color of
skin, like all those things arereal, yes, but the ones that
would be helpful would be hey,talk too much, didn't ask,
really didn't ask any questions.
Answers were all over, likethose kinds of feedback pieces
for the employers, let's say,that are fair, that are truly
(03:57):
looking for the best candidatewould be really.
There should be some kind ofmechanism to do that and so
you're.
Are you doing that for acandidate or how are you getting
the inside scoop?
Because, like most employerswon't, they won't sniff it,
touch it, because of how thatmight be interpreted for equal
opportunities and things likethat.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, that's being in the business for 25 years, I've
been able to get thisinformation from clients I've
known for really very well.
I mean, we go out to dinnertogether, we go out to lunch
together.
I mean I actually took a bunchof IT guys out about 15 years
ago it was a while back and Isaid come on, guys, what's with
(04:37):
these really tough technicaltests that nobody can get by?
Can you answer these questions?
And they all looked at eachother and I said, hmm, not
really.
No, I said, why are you doingthat?
And they just, you know, theyjust laughed.
I could never get a straightanswer, but that's just.
You know that I digress there,but usually it's they talk too
much, they don't ask the rightquestions.
(04:58):
They, you know again, they comein disheveled, they're all over
the place.
They were like really nervous,so nervous I couldn't get beyond
that.
And sometimes they'll actuallysay we want a woman for this job
or we want a guy for this joband we want somebody between
this age and this age.
And it's really a lot to dowith the soft skills versus they
(05:22):
didn't really know what theywere talking about.
I very rarely get that feedback.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, and in your own journey here, before we kind of
get going, I jokingly say, likeas a fellow ADHDer, let's give
them something to look at whilethey're listening to you talk.
Give you one link, because ifyou give an ADHDer two links,
it's over for you.
Give you one link that someoneshould stalk you a bit while
you're talking this afternoon.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Two links.
It's over for you.
I'll give you one link thatsomeone should stalk you a bit
while you're talking thisafternoon.
Linkedin for sure, DefinitelyLinkedIn.
I did just post a YouTube videoon hiring health stories, but
that would be the best way.
Follow me on the inside gameand on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
It's Lori-Jane-Roth-a bunch of numbers 084-696.
We'll talk about getting thereand nail it in a little bit,
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
So, lori, before we get into your journey, how do
you define success?
I think success for me, thomas,would be partially like impact
and freedom.
If I feel like I'm beingimpactful in somebody's life and
I've made a difference, and ifsomebody reaches out to me and
they say, oh, I followed whatyou said and it was great advice
and I got moved to the nextround.
(06:34):
Or somebody says, oh, I lovewhen you told me to do that,
about how I add value.
At the very end he said I didthat.
It sounded great.
That, to me, makes me veryhappy.
And the second part would befreedom freedom to just do what
I want to do.
I don't make a very goodfollower, I'm a better leader.
So if I can have the freedom todo my own thing, I'm very happy
(06:57):
with that.
It's success.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
To me it's a popular answer and it doesn't make it a
bad answer.
Purpose plus the cap and dirt,you know, captain of your
calendar.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Really good measures of success, because it provides
the mental space and the humanspace to feel like you're doing
something throughout your entireday that adds value to you and
I I wish more people could feelthat the trick is making money
to do it.
So let's talk about yourjourney a little bit, um.
So just walk us through liketake a few minutes to talk about
you.
You talked about a little bitof it, but in your pursuit of
(07:30):
that definition of success inyour journey, tell me about some
ties maybe the metaphoricalones or physical ones you've had
to cut.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
People say purpose all the time.
I mean, I've listened to a lotof your podcasts and people
always bring that up.
But when you don't have purposebecause you find it in other
areas, you find it in drinkingand drugs and shopping and
(07:58):
gambling and anything to fillthat void.
So when you don't have thatpurpose, you really do feel it.
So when you get that purpose,people say how do you know?
You just know.
I mean, it's just, this is whatI'm meant to do, but you know.
So, in answer to my journey onwhat made me want to cut the tie
, well, I've been doing this forso many years, almost 25 years,
(08:21):
and this last year has beenlike nothing I've ever seen.
You know, actually, it was 2024when I just said this is like a
weird market.
I have openings, I have goodpeople that I'm working with,
I'm applying the same formulathat I've always applied to make
things happen, but yet nothingwas happening.
And then I started reading allof this stuff on LinkedIn about
(08:44):
how many people are out of workand then their experiences, and
I said I don't know if I can dothis, you know, be in this
industry anymore.
I mean, here, I have devotedlike 25 years of my life to this
and it's changing right beforemy eyes and I thought I could do
this well into retirement.
So I had to make a decisionright then and there to cut the
(09:04):
tie and to evolve into somethinga little different, which is
the coaching.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, inside game.
It's incredibly insightful andyou couldn't ask for a better
platform than LinkedIn, who, Iguess the birth of it, the best
content to, typically aroundgetting jobs as core.
That's, I think, what LinkedInstill identifies as a
professional place to build acareer.
Get jobs.
That's where they make theirmoney.
Right, yeah, is in businesses,advertising, but specifically
(09:37):
it's more in HR posting work.
You know when you're cuttingthose ties along the way, right
Define, like the one that wasthe hardest, though, like what
was the?
How would you label it?
Because you've listened to acouple shows, so, like you know
what, what, how would you labelthat?
That tie?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
the tie that I cut and why it was difficult yeah,
like, why was that one soimportant?
Speaker 1 (09:52):
like you, peel the onion on that one a little bit
for me um, probably.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Well, definitely the recruiting, because I've I'd
given so much of my life to that.
I'm very passionate about whatI do and I take the hits
personally because I get to knowpeople so very well.
I get to know about their life,their families, everything
about them, and it's a real winfor me when they win.
(10:18):
So that was probably the mostdifficult thing to do is to say
I can't believe that thisindustry has changed so much
that I have to give this up.
You know, after 25 years I meanI'm not probably going to
completely give it up, but Idefinitely have to evolve and do
something different.
And I remember the mostimportant part of what I do and
(10:40):
what I like the most is coachingpeople for that job.
And so I know a lot ofrecruiters will say well, this
is the location, this is the end.
Bring your resume, make sureyou dress well, make sure you do
.
You know you do some researchon the company.
But I do and I think I do itlike nobody else does which is
really preparing them for theinterview, telling them how to
(11:03):
come across, what to say, whatto do, and I think that's what
sets me apart from the otherrecruiters.
I think because I get thatfeedback from other, from my
candidates.
They say nobody preps me likethis, nobody does, nobody gives
me this type of information.
So it's really hard to walkaway from that for sure.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
You know, and I do, my company does a bit of.
We put in growth frameworks,basically for organizations to
grow their business.
But I do work with a handful ofexecutives that are in that
spot where they're trying toreinvent themselves or find that
next role, Because the higheryou go up in the food chain, the
harder it is to find whatpeople will buy.
Even if you have a really goodnetwork you got to still fit
(11:46):
perfectly.
Do you feel like people arelike the product and they're
trying to sell?
This is what I do and I'mcurious to hear if your take on
this.
I feel like they are theproduct and they're trying to
sell one thing to one person onetime, Instead of having a
service you may sell to multiplepeople.
Do you prepare them the ideaand their brand around that?
I do that concept that you weretrying to get this you across
(12:09):
the line to one fire.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
No, no, I feel like when I prepare them, I don't
prepare them for what they know.
I mean, they know what theyknow.
I don't really build a brandaround them, so to speak, but
what I do is I give them I walkthem through different scenarios
and what might occur I givethem a lot of soft skills.
Well, first of all, let me justgo back.
(12:33):
I get them where they are rightnow.
Okay, let's put your oars inthe water right now.
Tell me about your biggest painpoint.
What's the struggle?
Is your resume working?
Are you getting calls?
Are you getting interviews?
Okay, great, if that's working,then I go to the next one.
Okay, so are you interviewing?
Yes, are you getting jobsoffers?
(12:54):
No.
So I try to figure out wherethey are then and I prepare a
plan around that particularperson.
But, in answer to your question, I don't really have to brand
them.
I just want them to have enoughconfidence, because so many
people right now are so defeatedfrom everything that they've
(13:15):
been through.
I mean, I work with people thathave been out of work for a
year.
I mean a year, I mean 50, 60,75 interviews that they're going
on and nobody you know, and nojobs.
So they're pretty defeated.
By the time they get to methey're pretty war torn.
So I have to make sure that Iget them on a good place, build
(13:36):
their confidence back up andgive them some working,
actionable steps.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
It's interesting.
So a lot of the solopreneursthat we work with, they're your
exact same clients, but they'vegone through a thousand
interviews, a thousand you knowapplications on LinkedIn,
otherwise literally like athousand, and now they're
entrepreneurs.
And so I'm curious this is mytake on this as well.
I think others wonder this.
(14:02):
So there's that group thatwould really rather have the
steady W-2, but they're findingthemselves with, whatever it is,
ageism or just they're just nota fit.
For whatever reason, whateverit is, they can't find a job.
The person.
And so like well, like well, Igotta go do it myself.
I can't sit here and not makemoney, uh, but but once you put
the word founder on your, onyour linkedin resume, hr walks
(14:25):
right past that oh, absolutelyabsolutely.
I get rid of founder, or justthe sense that you are your own
business owner yes, get rid ofit.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, yeah, oh, that's a no-brainer.
Yeah, I mean somebody put ontheir resume I don't want to say
it because I've never seen itbefore and the person will know
I'm talking about them I'm like,well, what were they thinking?
Why would they possibly putthat?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Because it's something he's doing oh, you've
got to share it.
Now you have to.
Now it's a Pandora's box.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Oh my God, I don't know, but he's a watchmaker and
he put that on it and it's likewhy are you doing that?
Do you not want a job?
I mean things that I just shakemy head at and I think, why are
they doing that?
I mean you can put that stuffon your resume but bury that a
(15:14):
little bit further down yourresume, yeah, like a hobby.
I mean I don't even like to puthobbies there, because you
don't know who's reading thatresume and might look at that
hobby and they say, oh my God,my daughter was killed in doing
that and it might turn them off.
So anything personal I justtake off, get rid of it.
It's not necessary.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I think that's really good advice because it does
matter.
It's funny because my wifespeaks a different language,
slovak, and it's not a very bigcommunity of Slovak, but it got
her her last job to some degreebecause they were looking for
somebody in the US who did notgrow up there.
It's a company and they hiredher because she is US-based but
from another country company andthey hired that her because she
(15:57):
is us based, but from anothercountry.
So they, they, she had anunderstanding of central europe,
eastern europe, differentcultures, and it's interesting
because that difference was theone they picked up on that she
was native, fluid slovak name,all match, and they're like, oh,
we want to talk to her and Iwas like, damn, like you know
that found the perfectopportunity where some people
might leave that off yeah, yeah.
She left it in, she's like well,that's just kind of that's a
big thing Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
So she just got lucky .
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Well, but that's actually the job she wanted too
is one was globally.
That would value that.
So I think that would be like.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yes, that's excellent .
Speaker 1 (16:26):
So there's a balance between that.
But maybe a specific narrowlittle side business I'd
probably lead off, unless it'svery much so related to what
you're trying to go do.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yes, you want to be attractive on your resume, to
the masses.
You want to be widely looked at.
You want to be niche in somecategories, but you also want to
be widely accepted, and thenyou can narrow it down from
there.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I will tell you a technique that we do is we'll
look for people hiring a CMO ina certain size company, let's
say like 10 million or less andI'll contact the CEO and be like
hey, have you considered afractional CEO on the whole
marketing team for less than thecost of an intern?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And it'll work.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
We've seen that get pulled.
We're like we'll do that foryou and a lot more for way
cheaper than you're paying.
We'll talk'll talk.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
So there are creativity pieces behind it.
I think out there and I thinkthat once you're in the job
market, you're all in.
And when we coach on thebusiness side, if people are
kind of in between, I tell themyou cannot sit on two chairs.
If you want people to buy yourentrepreneurial services, you
have to own that.
Be that Right.
Entrepreneurial services, youhave to own that.
Be that.
You've got to own that.
Be that.
Now, it doesn't mean like youcouldn't be, like hey, I'm a
(17:39):
marketing manager and it couldbe your company, so it's like
you're doing contract work,would you agree?
That's a probably betterstrategy than putting founder
owner CEO.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
What I usually just put isconsultant.
I just say owner off and I justput consultant, because you
really are a consultant, youknow.
So you founded the company.
That's great, that can come upin conversation when you're on
the interview.
But to get someone to call you,I'd much rather them say
consultant than founder.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
What's your take on?
A company is very quick to passon a candidate that's had
two-year jobs moved on, but theirony being that a company will
do the exact same thing to youwithout even blinking.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
What's my take on it?
My take is, in IT is not likeany other animal.
Okay, people are being well,they're being recruited from
more money.
If you can't do the best thatyou can to retain your people,
they're going to leave,especially in technology, and
especially if you're very goodat what you do.
Okay, you better do everythingin your power to retain them,
(18:42):
because in IT they're leaving.
Two to three years is thenormal amount of attrition that
you're going to see.
If it's anything less thanthere, it may become a job
hopper situation, because evenin IT, you should be staying
bare minimum a year.
I don't like a year, so itshould be at least two years or
more, unless it's a contract.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Unless it's a contract, absolutely so, lori,
if there was a question I shouldhave asked you today, and I
didn't what would that questionhave been and how would you
answer it?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Oh sure, end on that.
What question should you haveasked, but you didn't Probably
do.
I think I can be successful inthis business when, as you said,
(19:33):
it was saturated with a lot ofdifferent coaches.
And why?
Answers Okay, yes, I truly dobelieve that I can be successful
in a saturated coachingindustry because I truly do
believe that I bring somethingdifferent, that I'm not
methodical, I don't base it ontheory.
(19:54):
I am right there in thetrenches.
I understand what these jobseekers are going through.
I call them my family, I canrelate to them and, yeah, I
think I can be very successfulin this.
I already am so.
So, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
I mean whenever you could bring real experience, and
I love the idea you just saidthat it's not just methodical,
like there's actual nuance toget someone to, because if it
was methodical then you might aswell just make a digital course
and call it a day.
And listen, there's a spot forthat.
If you just have any clue andyou just need some direction to
start, you might be too faralong to help some people
(20:32):
because they're like dude, youneed to get the basics right,
like first, and that might be aspace, but I agree with you.
If you have the mentality of Ican actually really help you get
whatever it is.
It is your.
That's based on experience, nottheory.
So, shameless blood for you.
Who should get ahold of you,then, and how do they do it?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Well, yeah, if you've been struggling to find a job
and you've tried everything,you've been pounding the
pavement, you're you know,you're really giving up on this
and you're wondering if youshould change careers or what's
going on, you're reallystruggling.
I can help you.
I sincerely believe, with allmy heart, that I have something
that you won't get anywhere elseand I'd love to love to work
(21:13):
with you.
And, yeah, go on the insidegame and LinkedIn, or follow me
on LinkedIn.
And I actually also have acourse, and I have a one-hour
session, of course, and I have aVIP session where I just walk
you through every steps ofeverything.
It's like having a coach inyour pocket.
I'm there every step of the waywith you on that.
But I think a lot of people getthe benefit from the one hour
(21:35):
session.
I point you in the rightdirection and I tell you.
You know where you need to goand what you need to do.
You know within an hour andthen I give you action steps to
follow up with.
You know after that.
So there's a walk away.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
So hit her on LinkedIn.
I think it's under Lori JaneRoth.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yes, it is, and the inside game is the coaching part
of that.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Awesome, yeah, thank you so much, by the way, for
coming on today.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Absolutely.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I appreciate it.
Anybody made it this far.
As you know.
If you've been here before, youneed to get out there.
Go cut the title.
Whatever's holding you backfrom your success?
Own that success.
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