July 22, 2025 • 33 mins
Cut The Tie Podcast with John Evans
What if success wasn’t about working more—but about designing smarter systems? In this episode of Cut The Tie, Thomas Helfrich sits down with John Evans, founder and CEO of EverLine Coatings and Services, to explore how building a simple, scalable model from day one set the stage for explosive franchise growth.
From nearly giving up in year one to building a coast-to-coast franchise brand, John shares the hard lessons, mindset shifts, and non-negotiables that fueled his transition from founder to CEO. If you’re dreaming of building a company that runs without you—this episode is your blueprint.
About John Evans
John Evans is the founder and CEO of EverLine Coatings and Services, a fast-growing franchise brand providing pavement maintenance and line striping solutions across North America. What started in Calgary has expanded nationwide through a systematized franchise model that empowers local operators to scale with efficiency. John is passionate about leadership development, strategic simplicity, and creating a business that serves both the customer and the owner.
In this episode, Thomas and John discuss:
- Cutting ties with complexity
John reveals how simplifying everything—from service offering to client communication—was key to surviving year one. - Scaling through systems, not personality
Instead of being the bottleneck, John focused on creating repeatable processes that franchisees could own. - Why early pain creates future freedom
He reflects on the foundational systems they built from scratch—and how that paid off when they began to scale. - The power of founder self-awareness
John opens up about his own leadership evolution, from doing it all to building a business that runs without him. - Letting go to grow
Franchise success required John to step back, trust others, and shift from operator to strategic leader.
Key Takeaways:
- Simplify everything early
Complexity kills momentum. Start lean and build a repeatable core. - You are not the system
If the business depends on you, it won’t scale. Document everything. - Build before you expand
Strong systems are your launchpad. Don’t scale chaos. - Franchise success comes from local ownership
Empower people. Train them. Then get out of their way. - Great CEOs grow themselves first
Self-awareness is the unlock to leadership, delegation, and sustainable growth.
Connect with John Evans
💼 LinkedIn: John Evans
🌐 Website: www.everlinecoatings.com
Franchise Everline Coatings
🚀 Talk to Pete Gilfillan: https://go.hireyourself.com/gilfillan?utm_source=cttpodcastjohnevans
🚀 Talk to Dave Greenberg: https://cale
Dive into real, unfiltered conversations with marketing leaders, minus the BS.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Cut the Tie podcast.
Hello, I am your host, thomasHelfrich, and I'm on a mission
to help you cut the tie towhatever it is holding you back
from success.
Define that success yourself,because if someone else defines
it for you, you're not going tohave a clue what to go.
Chase that's going to actuallymake you, you know, earn it.
So today I am joined by JohnEvans.
(00:20):
John, how are you?
Hey Thomas, I'm doing quitewell today.
How are you?
I'm delicious.
Thank you for asking.
I just had a spicy chickentender.
It's a mistake in every account, from health, from experience,
and that's top of mind right nowbecause my mouth is on fire.
So, john, why don't you let merecover from that?
(00:41):
Take a moment, introduce whoyou are, where you're from and
what it is you do.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Sure.
So yeah, I'm John Evans.
I'm actually from Calgary,alberta, canada, here, and I'm
the founder and CEO at EverlineCoatings and Services.
We're a parking lot linepainting and pavement
maintenance franchise system.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
And Calgary.
I've been to been to bam.
I'll say it that way if youguys haven't been up there, that
is someplace you need to go.
I would definitely recommend inthe summer, um, after your
national canada day, that yourfourth of july effectively right
, that's right, what was that?
July 1st?
July 1st, that's right.
Um and uh, what I didn'trealize.
(01:23):
We went to bam and we went tocalgary.
Is that how big Canada is?
So we dropped our kids off inMontreal at a camp and I'm in
Atlanta, by the way so we flewthem up there and we flew to
Banff and it was like five and ahalf hours to fly to Calgary
and I'm like how far is it toVancouver, my God?
People don't realize how wide itis up there.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
And there's a whole lot of nothing that you're
flying over in those five and ahalf hours.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
That's for sure.
I think you're talking aboutland, not the people.
There are judgments amongst us.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yes, of course Of course, but a lot of land in
terms of major Canadian cities.
I mean we have five majorCanadian cities, but going from
Montreal to Calgary, I meanthere's Winnipeg and well,
toronto I guess, and thenWinnipeg and that's, you know,
it's Saskatchewan.
I mean they're trying, they'redoing good, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I felt like there was a joke there.
You missed which was there'sfive major cities but only one
hockey team.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
That's right.
That's right, Probably.
I mean that was too personal.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Anyway, anybody, go check out Calgary Beautiful and
bam in particular.
You'll have no better time thandriving an hour to between
things, Cause it's the mostbeautiful drive on the planet.
I don't say I think it's, it'sso nice up there.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Very fortunate to live so close trip, for us,
that's for sure don't want to doin the winter, just to be clear
, oh well, skiing, skiing upthere, yeah that's.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
That's a big thing.
I don't do snow, sir.
I live in the winter.
John, um, in your, uh, you knowyou, you do guys.
Uh, you're very specific.
Uh, there's a lot of choicesfor franchises out there.
Uh, do you want to take amoment and maybe kind of do the,
the high levels?
Why a lot of?
Not why you're the, but why alot of individuals pick you?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, certainly.
So, yeah, there's somethinglike oh, there's over 4,000
franchisors in the United Statesand another 1,500 in Canada,
and Everline's really been afast-growing story for a reason,
and I think largely because onewe're a service-based franchise
, so you can you start off, youcan start off lean People
(03:28):
getting into franchising.
A lot of them they're lookingto, you know, go and start and
build their own business forthemselves, while, you know,
utilizing the model that afranchise systems offers, and
support, of course, ongoing, andso with Everline we're a
reasonable starting cost.
But then you also, so thatmakes it accessible.
But also, too, we servicebusiness to business clients,
(03:52):
b2b clients, which is a verydifferent type of client base
than a B2C.
That's very transactional.
Those who are strong at, youknow, building relationships
with clients and things likethat.
We tick that box in that sensethere.
But then, finally, I would sayour business model, while proven
to be successful in alldifferent shapes and sizes of
markets, that it's the level ofsupport that we're able to offer
(04:15):
the franchisees.
So we've actually won the.
We're a dynasty here in Canada.
We've won the CanadianFranchise Award of Excellence
the top award you can get inCanada in franchising for our
world-class support that weoffer franchisees.
So, all the way from gettingeveryone trained up people
dealing with scale, dealing withthe shortages of cash, people
(04:36):
and work that we constantly dealwith as business owners, we've
seen a lot, and so that's been abig part of it, and there's a
lot under the hood as a result.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Now, when you win the award as a canadian, do you
apologize?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
uh, well, kind of uh, because you know, in that one
they make you go up twice.
You win your category and thenyou uh, then you got it and then
you win the big prize.
So you know it.
Sorry you have to hear from meagain.
I mean, it's just a naturalreaction.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Sorry, I had to do that.
I feel like I'd be cheating inthe audience if I didn't have a
sorry joke somewhere in there.
I know this is a very scarypodcast.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I don't know if you're aware of this, but there
is actually a law in Canada thatstates that if you say sorry
after a vehicle, accident.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
It's actually not an admission of guilt, so it's a
natural reaction that we have.
That's funny, because he saidsorry, which indicates guilt.
In the US, that's definitely amis-.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
No, no, no, that's just how weare.
I said sorry because I knew I'dhave to sue you later and you
seem nice.
That's why I said it.
I would change the narrative onthat pretty quickly, exactly,
but this podcast is not so muchabout what you do and why you
guys are great at it, it's moreabout your journey yourself and
(05:54):
the metaphoric ties you've hadto cut in your own journey to
get there.
So before we get to that though,just define success on your own
terms.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
To me, success is achieving what you've set out to
achieve.
And to go and place yourinitial vision from three years
ago, five years ago, 10 yearsago, looking back to that person
(06:24):
as to who you were, and theysaid listen, this is what I want
to go out and set out and do,going out and actively working
towards it.
And then when you get to the, Imean, there's never another
side to it.
The battle always continues,but when you do go and reflect
on the journey that you're ableto, you know, quantifiably and
qualitatively say I set out whatI wanted to achieve and that
(06:48):
was, you know, it's been amazingfrom starting from Everline,
from my backyard, fresh out ofuniversity it was 23 when I
started it and 37 now.
And you know what the visionthat we had set out was that
we'd be known as the companythat changed everything in the
industry.
And we were absolutely whichwas a big thing to say when you
were, you know, working out ofyour house in Northeast Calgary,
that kind of thing.
(07:08):
And now, yeah, no, we're now.
We're a significant force inour industry as a result, which
is pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
You know you said that maybe you know you need
some self-reflection, like Idon't actually there's a I don't
think I define what I want tobe three, five years from now.
It's interesting, it'ssomething to dive into because
it's like, oh, I got to committo that.
Do I want to be a podcasterthree to five years?
No, no, for that Do I want to.
And it's funny because I don'tthink I could clearly answer
that and I think it's a greatstarting point.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well, you can't.
It's actually, it's extremelydifficult.
It it's extremely difficult.
It's setting out the furtherthe vision goes, the fuzzier the
picture is right and it doeshave to be constantly revised.
So we utilize the EOS system,the entrepreneurial operating
system from the book Traction inour company, and that's
(08:01):
actually a part of it.
It's that you set out thevision of what do you want to be
known as, and every year we dowell, I guess every quarter, we
review it and then you are ableto actually adjust the moving
target of where you're going tobe in five years, 10 years,
whatever it is, and then youwork backward from there.
Okay, so today, to me here,right now, today, that five-year
(08:25):
goal seems awesome.
I would love to be there.
So what needs to happen by yearthree for me to be, you know,
on pace or on track to get thatgoal?
What needs to happen at year,at the end of this year, to get
me close to that year three goal?
What needs to happen thisquarter to get me closer to that
year, and this week, that kindof thing.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
So it's a it's a cool process to go through and I'm
saying just even picking one sonto follow, right, you know it's
going to be a marketing for us.
We're a marketing agency, wehave a you know podcast, that
there's a pivot we're moving tofor something else and it's like
, yeah, you know such a personalbrand versus company brand and
how they're intertwined.
So it gets complex when youstart thinking of it that way
and we're not going to solvethat here, but it made me think
(09:03):
and I'll make a note to go.
You know, spend some cyclestomorrow on it.
So thank you for that.
Tell me, just tell me.
You kind of teased it a bit.
Tell me a little about yourjourney and then the tie, maybe
like the biggest tie you've hadto cut along that way to achieve
that success.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Absolutely so.
I've always had anentrepreneurial itch, ever since
I was a little kid.
My parents were entrepreneurs,you know.
So, growing up with it, youknow you're not fully aware as a
child of what your parents aredoing.
You just know that they'reworking all the time and there
are some days that they'restressed about bills because the
(09:44):
sales aren't there, and thenthere's other days where you get
the rewards about being abusiness owner and things like
that.
So you have those ups and downsbut then over time just largely
building up skills just onmyself.
And then eventually, once I gotto university here at the
University of Calgary, I went to, I became actually a franchisee
(10:06):
myself for a student paintingbusiness called College Pro.
So I went into that thinking,you know, I'm a hotshot, 20, you
know, 20 year old, I know howto sell.
I, you know I, you know I cango do whatever.
And then in my very first yearof business I got my to sell.
I, you know I, you know I cango, uh, uh, do whatever.
And then in my very first yearof business, uh, I, I got my
(10:27):
butt kicked.
I was uh, uh, you know I, I uhhired all my friends, I
underpaid all my jobs and uh,and and lost $25,000, uh in that
summer as a 20 year old right,which was, uh, devastating.
And so there was a moment therefor us Well, for me, I guess
that I had to decide.
Oh well, I just tried thisentrepreneurship thing and it
(10:49):
was a complete disaster and youknow, is this even for me.
And so that's when I said, okay, I recognize what I had learned
.
I doubled down on it.
I had to borrow money from mygrandparents to keep me going
and I had to borrow that 25grand that I lost and paid back.
They borrowed that March.
(11:09):
I went into it hard, paid themback in July and was able to
kind of move forward from there.
But then, once I got to theother side of it and starting up
Everline, once I outgrew the,the franchise system that it was
in which was a student paintingprogram, I went to I discovered
the line, the parking lot line,painting, I guess, industry and
(11:32):
decided it was going to startEverline as a result of that,
and the tie I had to cut in thatsituation was actually security
.
I was going from a position ofwhere I had built up a really
strong business with my collegefor painters business and I knew
I'd outgrew the program.
(11:52):
I was no longer, you know,university student and I was
getting job offers from collegepro, actually to go and train
other people like you know, nicesalary jobs, like fresh out of
school, things like that thatpeople want to see.
And but no, I knew deep downthat I wanted to go and start my
own business and I, yeah, justhad to cut that tie and take the
(12:13):
leap of faith to to make itwork.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Amazing.
Just you know, once youidentify it right, it's the it
comes down to.
It's like you have this moment.
Do you have a moment actuallystart with that?
Do you have a moment and you'relike man, I need to?
I know you talked about alittle bit like get your butt
kicked, but was it like you knowyou're walking to your mailbox
or something?
You're like do you have amoment where, like I am this,
this is gonna happen.
I'm I'm going to stop doingthis, start doing this.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
For me, I would say I've had many of those moments
in my career, many and usuallywhat happens is there's a point
where natural talent gets you toa certain level of performance
or where you want to be, andthen you kind of hit a plateau
and, uh, you know, you kind ofbump at that plateau for for
(13:02):
some time and then eventually,uh, what pops in my head is um,
you know, what got you hereisn't going to get you there.
It's in those moments where I doa full evaluation.
You know of what I'm doing,what I'm, how I'm exercising,
how I'm taking care of myself,how you know what my
(13:23):
relationships are like, you knowpersonally and professionally,
and you know just how I'mutilizing my time in my
professional life and you knowjust making little tweaks and
adjustments from.
Those moments help me breakthrough that little plateau.
And then you go through aperiod of, I guess, discomfort
and challenges, because nowyou're in a whole new world.
(13:46):
Like cause, you could havestayed in that comfort level,
been, it would have beenpredictable.
You know what works and you canget a routine that way.
But if you want to continuegrowing and developing and
achieving those goals, you haveto break through those, those
barriers, and uh, that's alwaysa fun time.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
So once you have that , there's a how did you
formalize the system for forwhen you have those moments to
get things to take it?
Because there's one thing Iidentify, but then you'll just
repeat it if you don't actuallyput it to action.
So the how on that one.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Um, so for for me it's, it's uh, uh, like I
wouldn't say I have a formalizedsystem that I've developed for
myself.
I know myself well enough to tokind of understand you know
where I've lacked accountabilityon myself to or, you know, had
been easy on myself per se.
You know it's like you knowyou're kind of giving yourself
(14:36):
too much rope in this area.
You need to tighten that up,and that usually comes from you
know.
Like you know, you're kind ofgiving yourself too much rope in
this area.
You need to tighten that up,and, uh, that usually comes from
you know.
Like you know, it's like whenyou're in that that early, you
know stage in in starting and,uh, starting a business or in a
new role or whatnot, it'sabsolute chaos because you're
constantly learning andconstantly developing and it's
(14:58):
tough to identify that whileyou're in that process but you
just start with a little likeany sort of progress anywhere
will make an impact.
It's compounding impact overtime.
So, like a formal process, Iwould say no, but it's really.
It's a mental, it's a mindsetthat's tied to.
(15:19):
Things need to improve and theway that I need to operate needs
to change.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, and that methodical kind of approach if
system or not, is super valuablefor it.
What do you think has been thebiggest impact just in your life
?
Like from the you know you cuta tie.
Do you have one that's likeimpacted you more than others?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I would say that the biggest impact for me was
discovering.
Well, actually, I mean to bepersonally, I would say, was
actually having kids.
On that case there that was.
I remember you know somebodytelling me like your physiology
actually changes once you havechildren and you know that, just
(16:04):
like nature takes over and Iremember, you know, holding my
daughter for the first time andI could feel just the chemical
change in the brain of.
I remember just pacing aroundthe hospital room, being like I
got to get out there and got toget out there to sell so and
that force again.
That was just another eventwhere I say, okay, like I now
(16:24):
have, you know, I can't bereckless anymore, I have to go
and, you know, be very careful.
And it just tightened a lot ofthose bolts in that case is
there.
So I say personally that thatwas the biggest one
professionally.
It was actually once we expandedEverline expanded to the United
States.
That was a beyond fundamentalshift to the company.
(16:47):
So we went from 17 locations toto 120 locations in under three
years.
So the and continuing to growstill at a pace there, and that
for me was an adjustment of tohow my role as a leader, as a
visionary in the organization.
You know how I needed topresent myself and what I need
(17:11):
to be spending my time on, and Ithink that that just
realization again, what got youhere, won't get you there.
Uh was a uh was a big one therefor us.
Oh, and there's my cat.
They're behind me.
Cats, love podcasts.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
I know what the deal is.
They also love food, so youclearly forgot food today?
Yes, exactly what's, uh, what'sthe tide that you're afraid to
cut today?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I think for me it's tied to actually my relationship
with the franchisees.
So we have 120 plus andcontinuing to grow franchisees
and for me it's.
You know, what built thisbusiness and what built this
(17:58):
culture at Everline, which is avery, very positive family like
culture, was my interaction and,you know, relationships I've
been able to build witheverybody in my organization and
now it's just getting to thesize that I can't and I feel an
intense guilt that I can't bethere for them like the way I
(18:20):
was, that you know I need tobuild out systems and processes
to, you know, build out a muchlarger team to handle a lot of
the functions that I was there,but I still I miss them, I miss
the laughs, I miss all that.
So still hanging on to that.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, that's tough.
I mean, if you had to give someadvice to you know someone
trying to start a product, likethere was you years ago, what
would be advice you give them?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I think for me, uh, the, the advice I'd give is, if
they were starting something up,um, you know that, can that?
Sticking to the core values, uh, and and of you have to
understand first what the corevalue like, what you're about,
what the product's about, whatthe company's about, and and, uh
(19:05):
, how you're, uh, how you'rerelated to it, because it's
those values that drive theorder, the, the actions of the
organization, um, and will allowit to thrive.
And I think that not enoughpeople take articulating those
values as seriously as theyshould.
For a lot of people they'relike oh, there's just some core
(19:27):
values that throw in the walland no one ever reads them, and
that kind of thing.
And I think that some advice Igot early on was you know, you
need to take these seriouslybecause they will drive the
behavior of the remainder of theyears of the organization and
that will decide whether or notyou grow or not.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And what I think it helps with forming the getting
the right employees and theright ones that stay versus
don't fit it and there's, likeyou know, it gives it teeth a
little bit to say, well, you'renot fitting with our mission.
Culture.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
It makes it so much easier, right, and especially
when you go through an exerciseof determining if you have the
right person in the right seatof your organization if you have
somebody.
So at Everline, our core valueswere dedicated, resourceful,
integrity, focused, value-based,excelling and nourishing.
We're driven and you know, ifthey're everything but
nourishing, they're not going tofit, because you need to have
(20:17):
all of those things for us tooperate and I think that that's
a skill I had to learn, so happyto share with everybody
listening.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Now, if you could go back on your timeline at any
point, when would you go back?
What would you do differently?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Oh man.
Well, I mean naturally go buyBitcoin or something, they're
right.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
But everyone has these philosophical things.
It's simple Go buy Apple orBitcoin.
You got to keep it in yourlifetime.
Empty the 401k and dump it allin the Bitcoin and just do that
yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
no, I think for me-.
And also move to Puerto Rico soyou can get it out cheaper, I'm
sorry, yes, and also moved toPuerto Rico so you can get it
out cheaper, I'm sorry, yes, yes, indeed, indeed, I would say
going back, there was a veryrisky maneuver I took at one
part of my career, which was Iknew I wanted to expand Everline
into franchising, and we builtup a great business and made an
(21:20):
aggressive push.
I was just myself and the crewmembers and things like that and
in that year I hired on asalesperson, an operations
person, an administrator,brought in a consultant and I
expanded up to Edmonton all atthe same time and the which is
fun, cool and exciting.
But the issue is is that Ididn't even have a proper profit
(21:43):
and loss statement put in place, and so I did not understand my
finances and did not understandthat, and that put me in a in a
tight cash position.
That was, that was totallyself-inflicted.
But if I were aware, I wouldhave done totally different,
whether, if I wanted to continuedown that path of aggressive, I
would have raised some morecapital at that moment or I
(22:04):
would have perhaps slowed itdown to something more
manageable.
And so I think that going back,it would be to take the lessons
of my mentors, that having astrong or I mean a reasonable
financial acumen and how thatworks was underdeveloped in my
(22:26):
case.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
You know it's funny.
So every entrepreneur seems togo through some version of that
Other it's.
I hired family members.
We went through this with youknow, we were paying teams full
time.
The through this with you know,we were paying teams full time.
The original model was, you know, just paying per client that we
serve and because we useoffshore and we some other
people.
But I wanted to make sure theywere secure.
They would have just been justas secure and more motivated if
(22:50):
I had kept them on the scalingmode, so they would have made
more when we had more clientsand they'd make less.
We didn't.
And I was like, let me justnormalize it, cause we were, I
was winning, I think that's, andthey had that.
But what created was this kindof like complacency, and which
is what happens sometimes withemployees.
But but it wasn't, they weren'tdoing bad, it just created this
kind of vibe of complacency,right.
(23:11):
And then I could see it justkind of.
And so this year, you know, alittle ADHD medicine and some
refocus I was like, hey, I'mgoing back to the original model
and we cut like 68%, 65% ofcosts without losing delivery,
(23:31):
and it's like, man, I wish Iwould have done this, like two
years ago, because it completelyfrees up a lot of capital that
I could have paid myself more orinvested in this, and so what
you're describing I thinkhappens to everybody.
You get to a point withoutrealizing you're there and I
feel like I got our finances,but when you start seeing the
bleed, you're like wait, what'sgoing on?
It's not until you see thatbleed typically that you realize
you're hurt.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Well, and not understanding that when I ran
the business, I ran it a prettytight ship.
We were used to a certain levelof gross margin that the
business operated on.
You brought somebody, newpeople in, new salespeople, new
operations, people.
My systems weren't fleshed outand the business operated at a
15% lower gross margin as aresult of that.
(24:08):
They weren't running it as wellas I could.
We were doing more volume butat a lower gross margin, but my
overhead had increased.
So it made a big differencethere.
So again, yeah, that's anunderstanding, and modeling out
how things are going to work andkeeping tabs on it, on those
KPIs were certainly I wish I haddone that earlier.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
So what's the one book you recommend to any
entrepreneur?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I'm a big, I'm a lover of autobiographies.
I love well biographies ingeneral.
I love the struggle of peoplein their early days and, because
you know, you relate to thatand I actually really enjoy the
Ride of a Lifetime by Bob Iger,so the current CEO of Disney,
(24:58):
and just his journey and thelevel of, I guess, growth he had
to do through his journey was areally fun read.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
That's good.
Not a lot of people do theautobiographies.
That's a nice change of pace.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, you know all the greats, uh, uh, you know
there's, uh, you know, e-mythand all that kind of stuff.
That that's fantastic.
But I really like reading aboutthe, the battles, the, the real
life battles.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
I learn off of those examples it's not surprising I
do as well, since my show ismore about the journey of the
guest than what they do exactlyexactly because you.
I think you learn more from theperspective, in my opinion, of
how they thought, how they felt.
Uh, and I find the shows thatwe do that really kind of dive
into that with a little.
When I say, peel the onion likeyou get a little more gas.
The tears are near.
(25:45):
No one's cried yet.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Well, you're not going to cry into a whole
different thing.
But no, I agree with youbecause in those how-to books or
skill building books and thingslike that, amazing concepts,
but for the most part they arein a sterile environment, the
lessons that they're teaching,and to me I find it very, I
(26:22):
guess.
And to me I find it very, Iguess, validating, because to
(26:43):
sense that they had their totaldisaster days too, where nothing
went right at all and theyfigured it out and it was a
bloodbath, it was messy, it wasa challenge and lost a few years
off their life.
I've had those days too, andthere's going to be more of
those days to come, and I likeknowing I'm not alone.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, exactly, not alone piece.
And uh, you know, forsolopreneurs, listening, I
always say listen, if you don'tknow what to do, just go figure
out a way to ring a cashregister Like that, that's it.
And that doesn't mean go raisemoney or just go sell something,
Cause once you start sellingsomething, people come to you to
want to buy it.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
And then they want to buy your company and just go
ring it, go raise hell, don't goraise funds and talk to go find
some peers if you'resolopreneurs, for sure, uh, you
know, go and have a coffee withsomebody else doing the same
thing.
They're going through the samechallenges and, uh, you know, to
go and uh, just uh, to have ashoulder to cry on or a
(27:40):
brainstorming session orwhatever.
To be vulnerable in thosemoments is extremely important,
and some of my closest friendsare CEOs of other franchise
brands and we have similarissues and we make each other
feel better, so that's good.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Now listen.
If you can't afford the coffee,make sure they pay, though.
Oh, yes, of course.
Yes, or bring your own and justbe like I got mine.
Yeah, if there was a question Ishould ask today, what would
that question have been?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
oh, I mean it's.
How do you do it?
No, I think, uh, uh, for for me, um, uh, you know it's the uh,
it's.
How do you deal with theemotional journey and roller
coaster of of being, you knowbeing, you know going out and
you know cutting the tie?
Because it is, it's a leap,right, it's a leap and it's, and
(28:30):
always on the other side of itthere's going to be some sort of
an unintended I guessunintended lesson, because you
know, when you make that leap, Ilook at it as the it's called
the entrepreneurial transitioncurve.
You know, when you make thatleap, I look at it as the it's
called the entrepreneurialtransition curve.
When you make that leap, it'scalled what you call uninformed
optimism.
(28:50):
When you've decided you feelgood enough to go and make
whatever move you gotta make,but you don't know what's on the
other side of it.
No matter how much researchyou've done and things like that
, there's still gonna bevariables that you didn't catch.
But then you're gonna get tothe other side of it and then
that's when you're going tostart facing resistance and
challenges or discover somethingthat you didn't expect, and
(29:11):
that's what we call informedpessimism.
You're like, oh, this isactually way harder than I
thought.
Then it gets you down to that.
Then you have a choice to makeat that point, and that's called
the crisis of meaning.
I'm going to continue pressingon, I'm going to solve this
issue that just came up in frontof me, or I'm just going to
what they say is crash and burnand I'm just going to quit.
And those that push through andgo and they discover whatever
(29:36):
they need to do to get throughthat, whatever that challenge is
, then they get into informedrealism so they understand
what's in front of them, they'vesolved the problem, or they
understand the problems thereand they can work around it in
some way, shape or form.
And then they move forward.
And then you get to anotherthing.
And then, as you grow anddevelop, you're going to come
(29:57):
across something You're like,hey, that's a cool idea, I'm
going to jump into that.
Now you're on uninformedoptimism again, and then the
rollercoaster continues on.
So I'd say it's definitelyunderstanding what, where you're
at, is important.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah Well, the model you described, I think Alex
Ramos, he has a really goodpiece of them.
Sure, he's barbed somebody else, but for a lot of entrepreneurs
, when it gets hard, they havefun in the climb and it gets
hard and they quit and theystart the next thing.
Yeah, and it's.
It's getting over that hump ofhard so you can take the dip and
then continue on even higher.
Uh, because because that thatthing goes lower and lower and
(30:33):
lower every time you do it thatway, where you're, let's try it
again.
Let's try it again.
If you don't ever get throughthe hard part and really think
through it now you may driveyour wife crazy when you say,
hey, I'm going to pivot again,not start a new company.
Um, you know they.
Then they're like you pivot allthe time.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Well, and that's why I enjoy the biographies of other
fellow entrepreneurs is becausethey go into the detail of
where the world was crashingdown on them and you know and
then.
But they got through theimpossible problems.
If you look back, if I lookback at all of the impossible
problems seemingly at the timeimpossible problems that I had
(31:09):
to solve, you know, it'ssomething to be proud of, of
course, and any entrepreneurthat's kind of broke through
that barrier have been allthrough the same thing.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
You've been doing something.
You know one thing for the mostpart right, for a long time and
you've modified what yourbusiness is right.
It starts off one thing and itbecomes the next, but it's the
same core product that you'rearound.
Have you found moments ofasking for a friend, of course?
Have you found moments when youfeel like you had
overcomplicated it and you justcame back to the original
(31:38):
premise?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Oh yeah, you start to feel insecure with your product
because you know, you know therevenue could be higher, you
know it could have a betterbottom line, and so you start
overcompensating with makingthings far more complicated than
they are and we're still, youknow, still peeling away that
stuff, even here at everline,stuff that I did early on, that
(32:01):
was baked into the system.
That's super convoluted, thatwe need to, we need to simplify
and get out there, and thattakes time to get that sorted
out there.
And but no, we, we definitelydid, and you know it's coming
from the position of of, youknow, just trying to
overcompensate and that is, youknow, that's a natural
(32:25):
progression and there's nothingwrong with doing that to try
something else.
But if it doesn't work, don'tbe afraid to promptly cut that
off and focus on the coreproduct or service.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
I appreciate it.
John, thanks so much forjoining me today.
I really, really appreciate you.
Thanks, thomas, this was great,and those who have made it this
point you point.
Thank you for being here aswell.
This is your first time here.
I hope it's the first of many,and if you've been here before,
you know what to do.
Go cut a tie to somethingholding you back, but first to
find that success on your ownterms.
You know what it is holding youback from your success.
(32:55):
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to the Cut the Tie podcast.
Hello, I am your host, thomasHelfrich, and I'm on a mission
to help you cut the tie towhatever it is holding you back
from success.
Define that success yourself,because if someone else defines
it for you, you're not going tohave a clue what to go.
Chase that's going to actuallymake you, you know, earn it.
So today I am joined by JohnEvans.
(00:20):
John, how are you?
Hey Thomas, I'm doing quitewell today.
How are you?
I'm delicious.
Thank you for asking.
I just had a spicy chickentender.
It's a mistake in every account, from health, from experience,
and that's top of mind right nowbecause my mouth is on fire.
So, john, why don't you let merecover from that?
(00:41):
Take a moment, introduce whoyou are, where you're from and
what it is you do.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Sure.
So yeah, I'm John Evans.
I'm actually from Calgary,alberta, canada, here, and I'm
the founder and CEO at EverlineCoatings and Services.
We're a parking lot linepainting and pavement
maintenance franchise system.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
And Calgary.
I've been to been to bam.
I'll say it that way if youguys haven't been up there, that
is someplace you need to go.
I would definitely recommend inthe summer, um, after your
national canada day, that yourfourth of july effectively right
, that's right, what was that?
July 1st?
July 1st, that's right.
Um and uh, what I didn'trealize.
(01:23):
We went to bam and we went tocalgary.
Is that how big Canada is?
So we dropped our kids off inMontreal at a camp and I'm in
Atlanta, by the way so we flewthem up there and we flew to
Banff and it was like five and ahalf hours to fly to Calgary
and I'm like how far is it toVancouver, my God?
People don't realize how wide itis up there.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
And there's a whole lot of nothing that you're
flying over in those five and ahalf hours.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
That's for sure.
I think you're talking aboutland, not the people.
There are judgments amongst us.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yes, of course Of course, but a lot of land in
terms of major Canadian cities.
I mean we have five majorCanadian cities, but going from
Montreal to Calgary, I meanthere's Winnipeg and well,
toronto I guess, and thenWinnipeg and that's, you know,
it's Saskatchewan.
I mean they're trying, they'redoing good, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I felt like there was a joke there.
You missed which was there'sfive major cities but only one
hockey team.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
That's right.
That's right, Probably.
I mean that was too personal.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Anyway, anybody, go check out Calgary Beautiful and
bam in particular.
You'll have no better time thandriving an hour to between
things, Cause it's the mostbeautiful drive on the planet.
I don't say I think it's, it'sso nice up there.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Very fortunate to live so close trip, for us,
that's for sure don't want to doin the winter, just to be clear
, oh well, skiing, skiing upthere, yeah that's.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
That's a big thing.
I don't do snow, sir.
I live in the winter.
John, um, in your, uh, you knowyou, you do guys.
Uh, you're very specific.
Uh, there's a lot of choicesfor franchises out there.
Uh, do you want to take amoment and maybe kind of do the,
the high levels?
Why a lot of?
Not why you're the, but why alot of individuals pick you?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, certainly.
So, yeah, there's somethinglike oh, there's over 4,000
franchisors in the United Statesand another 1,500 in Canada,
and Everline's really been afast-growing story for a reason,
and I think largely because onewe're a service-based franchise
, so you can you start off, youcan start off lean People
(03:28):
getting into franchising.
A lot of them they're lookingto, you know, go and start and
build their own business forthemselves, while, you know,
utilizing the model that afranchise systems offers, and
support, of course, ongoing, andso with Everline we're a
reasonable starting cost.
But then you also, so thatmakes it accessible.
But also, too, we servicebusiness to business clients,
(03:52):
b2b clients, which is a verydifferent type of client base
than a B2C.
That's very transactional.
Those who are strong at, youknow, building relationships
with clients and things likethat.
We tick that box in that sensethere.
But then, finally, I would sayour business model, while proven
to be successful in alldifferent shapes and sizes of
markets, that it's the level ofsupport that we're able to offer
(04:15):
the franchisees.
So we've actually won the.
We're a dynasty here in Canada.
We've won the CanadianFranchise Award of Excellence
the top award you can get inCanada in franchising for our
world-class support that weoffer franchisees.
So, all the way from gettingeveryone trained up people
dealing with scale, dealing withthe shortages of cash, people
(04:36):
and work that we constantly dealwith as business owners, we've
seen a lot, and so that's been abig part of it, and there's a
lot under the hood as a result.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Now, when you win the award as a canadian, do you
apologize?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
uh, well, kind of uh, because you know, in that one
they make you go up twice.
You win your category and thenyou uh, then you got it and then
you win the big prize.
So you know it.
Sorry you have to hear from meagain.
I mean, it's just a naturalreaction.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Sorry, I had to do that.
I feel like I'd be cheating inthe audience if I didn't have a
sorry joke somewhere in there.
I know this is a very scarypodcast.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I don't know if you're aware of this, but there
is actually a law in Canada thatstates that if you say sorry
after a vehicle, accident.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
It's actually not an admission of guilt, so it's a
natural reaction that we have.
That's funny, because he saidsorry, which indicates guilt.
In the US, that's definitely amis-.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
No, no, no, that's just how weare.
I said sorry because I knew I'dhave to sue you later and you
seem nice.
That's why I said it.
I would change the narrative onthat pretty quickly, exactly,
but this podcast is not so muchabout what you do and why you
guys are great at it, it's moreabout your journey yourself and
(05:54):
the metaphoric ties you've hadto cut in your own journey to
get there.
So before we get to that though,just define success on your own
terms.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
To me, success is achieving what you've set out to
achieve.
And to go and place yourinitial vision from three years
ago, five years ago, 10 yearsago, looking back to that person
(06:24):
as to who you were, and theysaid listen, this is what I want
to go out and set out and do,going out and actively working
towards it.
And then when you get to the, Imean, there's never another
side to it.
The battle always continues,but when you do go and reflect
on the journey that you're ableto, you know, quantifiably and
qualitatively say I set out whatI wanted to achieve and that
(06:48):
was, you know, it's been amazingfrom starting from Everline,
from my backyard, fresh out ofuniversity it was 23 when I
started it and 37 now.
And you know what the visionthat we had set out was that
we'd be known as the companythat changed everything in the
industry.
And we were absolutely whichwas a big thing to say when you
were, you know, working out ofyour house in Northeast Calgary,
that kind of thing.
(07:08):
And now, yeah, no, we're now.
We're a significant force inour industry as a result, which
is pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
You know you said that maybe you know you need
some self-reflection, like Idon't actually there's a I don't
think I define what I want tobe three, five years from now.
It's interesting, it'ssomething to dive into because
it's like, oh, I got to committo that.
Do I want to be a podcasterthree to five years?
No, no, for that Do I want to.
And it's funny because I don'tthink I could clearly answer
that and I think it's a greatstarting point.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well, you can't.
It's actually, it's extremelydifficult.
It it's extremely difficult.
It's setting out the furtherthe vision goes, the fuzzier the
picture is right and it doeshave to be constantly revised.
So we utilize the EOS system,the entrepreneurial operating
system from the book Traction inour company, and that's
(08:01):
actually a part of it.
It's that you set out thevision of what do you want to be
known as, and every year we dowell, I guess every quarter, we
review it and then you are ableto actually adjust the moving
target of where you're going tobe in five years, 10 years,
whatever it is, and then youwork backward from there.
Okay, so today, to me here,right now, today, that five-year
(08:25):
goal seems awesome.
I would love to be there.
So what needs to happen by yearthree for me to be, you know,
on pace or on track to get thatgoal?
What needs to happen at year,at the end of this year, to get
me close to that year three goal?
What needs to happen thisquarter to get me closer to that
year, and this week, that kindof thing.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
So it's a it's a cool process to go through and I'm
saying just even picking one sonto follow, right, you know it's
going to be a marketing for us.
We're a marketing agency, wehave a you know podcast, that
there's a pivot we're moving tofor something else and it's like
, yeah, you know such a personalbrand versus company brand and
how they're intertwined.
So it gets complex when youstart thinking of it that way
and we're not going to solvethat here, but it made me think
(09:03):
and I'll make a note to go.
You know, spend some cyclestomorrow on it.
So thank you for that.
Tell me, just tell me.
You kind of teased it a bit.
Tell me a little about yourjourney and then the tie, maybe
like the biggest tie you've hadto cut along that way to achieve
that success.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Absolutely so.
I've always had anentrepreneurial itch, ever since
I was a little kid.
My parents were entrepreneurs,you know.
So, growing up with it, youknow you're not fully aware as a
child of what your parents aredoing.
You just know that they'reworking all the time and there
are some days that they'restressed about bills because the
(09:44):
sales aren't there, and thenthere's other days where you get
the rewards about being abusiness owner and things like
that.
So you have those ups and downsbut then over time just largely
building up skills just onmyself.
And then eventually, once I gotto university here at the
University of Calgary, I went to, I became actually a franchisee
(10:06):
myself for a student paintingbusiness called College Pro.
So I went into that thinking,you know, I'm a hotshot, 20, you
know, 20 year old, I know howto sell.
I, you know I, you know I cango do whatever.
And then in my very first yearof business I got my to sell.
I, you know I, you know I cango, uh, uh, do whatever.
And then in my very first yearof business, uh, I, I got my
(10:27):
butt kicked.
I was uh, uh, you know I, I uhhired all my friends, I
underpaid all my jobs and uh,and and lost $25,000, uh in that
summer as a 20 year old right,which was, uh, devastating.
And so there was a moment therefor us Well, for me, I guess
that I had to decide.
Oh well, I just tried thisentrepreneurship thing and it
(10:49):
was a complete disaster and youknow, is this even for me.
And so that's when I said, okay, I recognize what I had learned
.
I doubled down on it.
I had to borrow money from mygrandparents to keep me going
and I had to borrow that 25grand that I lost and paid back.
They borrowed that March.
(11:09):
I went into it hard, paid themback in July and was able to
kind of move forward from there.
But then, once I got to theother side of it and starting up
Everline, once I outgrew the,the franchise system that it was
in which was a student paintingprogram, I went to I discovered
the line, the parking lot line,painting, I guess, industry and
(11:32):
decided it was going to startEverline as a result of that,
and the tie I had to cut in thatsituation was actually security
.
I was going from a position ofwhere I had built up a really
strong business with my collegefor painters business and I knew
I'd outgrew the program.
(11:52):
I was no longer, you know,university student and I was
getting job offers from collegepro, actually to go and train
other people like you know, nicesalary jobs, like fresh out of
school, things like that thatpeople want to see.
And but no, I knew deep downthat I wanted to go and start my
own business and I, yeah, justhad to cut that tie and take the
(12:13):
leap of faith to to make itwork.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Amazing.
Just you know, once youidentify it right, it's the it
comes down to.
It's like you have this moment.
Do you have a moment actuallystart with that?
Do you have a moment and you'relike man, I need to?
I know you talked about alittle bit like get your butt
kicked, but was it like you knowyou're walking to your mailbox
or something?
You're like do you have amoment where, like I am this,
this is gonna happen.
I'm I'm going to stop doingthis, start doing this.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
For me, I would say I've had many of those moments
in my career, many and usuallywhat happens is there's a point
where natural talent gets you toa certain level of performance
or where you want to be, andthen you kind of hit a plateau
and, uh, you know, you kind ofbump at that plateau for for
(13:02):
some time and then eventually,uh, what pops in my head is um,
you know, what got you hereisn't going to get you there.
It's in those moments where I doa full evaluation.
You know of what I'm doing,what I'm, how I'm exercising,
how I'm taking care of myself,how you know what my
(13:23):
relationships are like, you knowpersonally and professionally,
and you know just how I'mutilizing my time in my
professional life and you knowjust making little tweaks and
adjustments from.
Those moments help me breakthrough that little plateau.
And then you go through aperiod of, I guess, discomfort
and challenges, because nowyou're in a whole new world.
(13:46):
Like cause, you could havestayed in that comfort level,
been, it would have beenpredictable.
You know what works and you canget a routine that way.
But if you want to continuegrowing and developing and
achieving those goals, you haveto break through those, those
barriers, and uh, that's alwaysa fun time.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
So once you have that , there's a how did you
formalize the system for forwhen you have those moments to
get things to take it?
Because there's one thing Iidentify, but then you'll just
repeat it if you don't actuallyput it to action.
So the how on that one.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Um, so for for me it's, it's uh, uh, like I
wouldn't say I have a formalizedsystem that I've developed for
myself.
I know myself well enough to tokind of understand you know
where I've lacked accountabilityon myself to or, you know, had
been easy on myself per se.
You know it's like you knowyou're kind of giving yourself
(14:36):
too much rope in this area.
You need to tighten that up,and that usually comes from you
know.
Like you know, you're kind ofgiving yourself too much rope in
this area.
You need to tighten that up,and, uh, that usually comes from
you know.
Like you know, it's like whenyou're in that that early, you
know stage in in starting and,uh, starting a business or in a
new role or whatnot, it'sabsolute chaos because you're
constantly learning andconstantly developing and it's
(14:58):
tough to identify that whileyou're in that process but you
just start with a little likeany sort of progress anywhere
will make an impact.
It's compounding impact overtime.
So, like a formal process, Iwould say no, but it's really.
It's a mental, it's a mindsetthat's tied to.
(15:19):
Things need to improve and theway that I need to operate needs
to change.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, and that methodical kind of approach if
system or not, is super valuablefor it.
What do you think has been thebiggest impact just in your life
?
Like from the you know you cuta tie.
Do you have one that's likeimpacted you more than others?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I would say that the biggest impact for me was
discovering.
Well, actually, I mean to bepersonally, I would say, was
actually having kids.
On that case there that was.
I remember you know somebodytelling me like your physiology
actually changes once you havechildren and you know that, just
(16:04):
like nature takes over and Iremember, you know, holding my
daughter for the first time andI could feel just the chemical
change in the brain of.
I remember just pacing aroundthe hospital room, being like I
got to get out there and got toget out there to sell so and
that force again.
That was just another eventwhere I say, okay, like I now
(16:24):
have, you know, I can't bereckless anymore, I have to go
and, you know, be very careful.
And it just tightened a lot ofthose bolts in that case is
there.
So I say personally that thatwas the biggest one
professionally.
It was actually once we expandedEverline expanded to the United
States.
That was a beyond fundamentalshift to the company.
(16:47):
So we went from 17 locations toto 120 locations in under three
years.
So the and continuing to growstill at a pace there, and that
for me was an adjustment of tohow my role as a leader, as a
visionary in the organization.
You know how I needed topresent myself and what I need
(17:11):
to be spending my time on, and Ithink that that just
realization again, what got youhere, won't get you there.
Uh was a uh was a big one therefor us.
Oh, and there's my cat.
They're behind me.
Cats, love podcasts.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
I know what the deal is.
They also love food, so youclearly forgot food today?
Yes, exactly what's, uh, what'sthe tide that you're afraid to
cut today?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I think for me it's tied to actually my relationship
with the franchisees.
So we have 120 plus andcontinuing to grow franchisees
and for me it's.
You know, what built thisbusiness and what built this
(17:58):
culture at Everline, which is avery, very positive family like
culture, was my interaction and,you know, relationships I've
been able to build witheverybody in my organization and
now it's just getting to thesize that I can't and I feel an
intense guilt that I can't bethere for them like the way I
(18:20):
was, that you know I need tobuild out systems and processes
to, you know, build out a muchlarger team to handle a lot of
the functions that I was there,but I still I miss them, I miss
the laughs, I miss all that.
So still hanging on to that.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, that's tough.
I mean, if you had to give someadvice to you know someone
trying to start a product, likethere was you years ago, what
would be advice you give them?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I think for me, uh, the, the advice I'd give is, if
they were starting something up,um, you know that, can that?
Sticking to the core values, uh, and and of you have to
understand first what the corevalue like, what you're about,
what the product's about, whatthe company's about, and and, uh
(19:05):
, how you're, uh, how you'rerelated to it, because it's
those values that drive theorder, the, the actions of the
organization, um, and will allowit to thrive.
And I think that not enoughpeople take articulating those
values as seriously as theyshould.
For a lot of people they'relike oh, there's just some core
(19:27):
values that throw in the walland no one ever reads them, and
that kind of thing.
And I think that some advice Igot early on was you know, you
need to take these seriouslybecause they will drive the
behavior of the remainder of theyears of the organization and
that will decide whether or notyou grow or not.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And what I think it helps with forming the getting
the right employees and theright ones that stay versus
don't fit it and there's, likeyou know, it gives it teeth a
little bit to say, well, you'renot fitting with our mission.
Culture.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
It makes it so much easier, right, and especially
when you go through an exerciseof determining if you have the
right person in the right seatof your organization if you have
somebody.
So at Everline, our core valueswere dedicated, resourceful,
integrity, focused, value-based,excelling and nourishing.
We're driven and you know, ifthey're everything but
nourishing, they're not going tofit, because you need to have
(20:17):
all of those things for us tooperate and I think that that's
a skill I had to learn, so happyto share with everybody
listening.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Now, if you could go back on your timeline at any
point, when would you go back?
What would you do differently?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Oh man.
Well, I mean naturally go buyBitcoin or something, they're
right.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
But everyone has these philosophical things.
It's simple Go buy Apple orBitcoin.
You got to keep it in yourlifetime.
Empty the 401k and dump it allin the Bitcoin and just do that
yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
no, I think for me-.
And also move to Puerto Rico soyou can get it out cheaper, I'm
sorry, yes, and also moved toPuerto Rico so you can get it
out cheaper, I'm sorry, yes, yes, indeed, indeed, I would say
going back, there was a veryrisky maneuver I took at one
part of my career, which was Iknew I wanted to expand Everline
into franchising, and we builtup a great business and made an
(21:20):
aggressive push.
I was just myself and the crewmembers and things like that and
in that year I hired on asalesperson, an operations
person, an administrator,brought in a consultant and I
expanded up to Edmonton all atthe same time and the which is
fun, cool and exciting.
But the issue is is that Ididn't even have a proper profit
(21:43):
and loss statement put in place, and so I did not understand my
finances and did not understandthat, and that put me in a in a
tight cash position.
That was, that was totallyself-inflicted.
But if I were aware, I wouldhave done totally different,
whether, if I wanted to continuedown that path of aggressive, I
would have raised some morecapital at that moment or I
(22:04):
would have perhaps slowed itdown to something more
manageable.
And so I think that going back,it would be to take the lessons
of my mentors, that having astrong or I mean a reasonable
financial acumen and how thatworks was underdeveloped in my
(22:26):
case.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
You know it's funny.
So every entrepreneur seems togo through some version of that
Other it's.
I hired family members.
We went through this with youknow, we were paying teams full
time.
The through this with you know,we were paying teams full time.
The original model was, you know, just paying per client that we
serve and because we useoffshore and we some other
people.
But I wanted to make sure theywere secure.
They would have just been justas secure and more motivated if
(22:50):
I had kept them on the scalingmode, so they would have made
more when we had more clientsand they'd make less.
We didn't.
And I was like, let me justnormalize it, cause we were, I
was winning, I think that's, andthey had that.
But what created was this kindof like complacency, and which
is what happens sometimes withemployees.
But but it wasn't, they weren'tdoing bad, it just created this
kind of vibe of complacency,right.
(23:11):
And then I could see it justkind of.
And so this year, you know, alittle ADHD medicine and some
refocus I was like, hey, I'mgoing back to the original model
and we cut like 68%, 65% ofcosts without losing delivery,
(23:31):
and it's like, man, I wish Iwould have done this, like two
years ago, because it completelyfrees up a lot of capital that
I could have paid myself more orinvested in this, and so what
you're describing I thinkhappens to everybody.
You get to a point withoutrealizing you're there and I
feel like I got our finances,but when you start seeing the
bleed, you're like wait, what'sgoing on?
It's not until you see thatbleed typically that you realize
you're hurt.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Well, and not understanding that when I ran
the business, I ran it a prettytight ship.
We were used to a certain levelof gross margin that the
business operated on.
You brought somebody, newpeople in, new salespeople, new
operations, people.
My systems weren't fleshed outand the business operated at a
15% lower gross margin as aresult of that.
(24:08):
They weren't running it as wellas I could.
We were doing more volume butat a lower gross margin, but my
overhead had increased.
So it made a big differencethere.
So again, yeah, that's anunderstanding, and modeling out
how things are going to work andkeeping tabs on it, on those
KPIs were certainly I wish I haddone that earlier.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
So what's the one book you recommend to any
entrepreneur?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I'm a big, I'm a lover of autobiographies.
I love well biographies ingeneral.
I love the struggle of peoplein their early days and, because
you know, you relate to thatand I actually really enjoy the
Ride of a Lifetime by Bob Iger,so the current CEO of Disney,
(24:58):
and just his journey and thelevel of, I guess, growth he had
to do through his journey was areally fun read.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
That's good.
Not a lot of people do theautobiographies.
That's a nice change of pace.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, you know all the greats, uh, uh, you know
there's, uh, you know, e-mythand all that kind of stuff.
That that's fantastic.
But I really like reading aboutthe, the battles, the, the real
life battles.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
I learn off of those examples it's not surprising I
do as well, since my show ismore about the journey of the
guest than what they do exactlyexactly because you.
I think you learn more from theperspective, in my opinion, of
how they thought, how they felt.
Uh, and I find the shows thatwe do that really kind of dive
into that with a little.
When I say, peel the onion likeyou get a little more gas.
The tears are near.
(25:45):
No one's cried yet.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Well, you're not going to cry into a whole
different thing.
But no, I agree with youbecause in those how-to books or
skill building books and thingslike that, amazing concepts,
but for the most part they arein a sterile environment, the
lessons that they're teaching,and to me I find it very, I
(26:22):
guess.
And to me I find it very, Iguess, validating, because to
(26:43):
sense that they had their totaldisaster days too, where nothing
went right at all and theyfigured it out and it was a
bloodbath, it was messy, it wasa challenge and lost a few years
off their life.
I've had those days too, andthere's going to be more of
those days to come, and I likeknowing I'm not alone.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, exactly, not alone piece.
And uh, you know, forsolopreneurs, listening, I
always say listen, if you don'tknow what to do, just go figure
out a way to ring a cashregister Like that, that's it.
And that doesn't mean go raisemoney or just go sell something,
Cause once you start sellingsomething, people come to you to
want to buy it.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
And then they want to buy your company and just go
ring it, go raise hell, don't goraise funds and talk to go find
some peers if you'resolopreneurs, for sure, uh, you
know, go and have a coffee withsomebody else doing the same
thing.
They're going through the samechallenges and, uh, you know, to
go and uh, just uh, to have ashoulder to cry on or a
(27:40):
brainstorming session orwhatever.
To be vulnerable in thosemoments is extremely important,
and some of my closest friendsare CEOs of other franchise
brands and we have similarissues and we make each other
feel better, so that's good.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Now listen.
If you can't afford the coffee,make sure they pay, though.
Oh, yes, of course.
Yes, or bring your own and justbe like I got mine.
Yeah, if there was a question Ishould ask today, what would
that question have been?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
oh, I mean it's.
How do you do it?
No, I think, uh, uh, for for me, um, uh, you know it's the uh,
it's.
How do you deal with theemotional journey and roller
coaster of of being, you knowbeing, you know going out and
you know cutting the tie?
Because it is, it's a leap,right, it's a leap and it's, and
(28:30):
always on the other side of itthere's going to be some sort of
an unintended I guessunintended lesson, because you
know, when you make that leap, Ilook at it as the it's called
the entrepreneurial transitioncurve.
You know, when you make thatleap, I look at it as the it's
called the entrepreneurialtransition curve.
When you make that leap, it'scalled what you call uninformed
optimism.
(28:50):
When you've decided you feelgood enough to go and make
whatever move you gotta make,but you don't know what's on the
other side of it.
No matter how much researchyou've done and things like that
, there's still gonna bevariables that you didn't catch.
But then you're gonna get tothe other side of it and then
that's when you're going tostart facing resistance and
challenges or discover somethingthat you didn't expect, and
(29:11):
that's what we call informedpessimism.
You're like, oh, this isactually way harder than I
thought.
Then it gets you down to that.
Then you have a choice to makeat that point, and that's called
the crisis of meaning.
I'm going to continue pressingon, I'm going to solve this
issue that just came up in frontof me, or I'm just going to
what they say is crash and burnand I'm just going to quit.
And those that push through andgo and they discover whatever
(29:36):
they need to do to get throughthat, whatever that challenge is
, then they get into informedrealism so they understand
what's in front of them, they'vesolved the problem, or they
understand the problems thereand they can work around it in
some way, shape or form.
And then they move forward.
And then you get to anotherthing.
And then, as you grow anddevelop, you're going to come
(29:57):
across something You're like,hey, that's a cool idea, I'm
going to jump into that.
Now you're on uninformedoptimism again, and then the
rollercoaster continues on.
So I'd say it's definitelyunderstanding what, where you're
at, is important.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah Well, the model you described, I think Alex
Ramos, he has a really goodpiece of them.
Sure, he's barbed somebody else, but for a lot of entrepreneurs
, when it gets hard, they havefun in the climb and it gets
hard and they quit and theystart the next thing.
Yeah, and it's.
It's getting over that hump ofhard so you can take the dip and
then continue on even higher.
Uh, because because that thatthing goes lower and lower and
(30:33):
lower every time you do it thatway, where you're, let's try it
again.
Let's try it again.
If you don't ever get throughthe hard part and really think
through it now you may driveyour wife crazy when you say,
hey, I'm going to pivot again,not start a new company.
Um, you know they.
Then they're like you pivot allthe time.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Well, and that's why I enjoy the biographies of other
fellow entrepreneurs is becausethey go into the detail of
where the world was crashingdown on them and you know and
then.
But they got through theimpossible problems.
If you look back, if I lookback at all of the impossible
problems seemingly at the timeimpossible problems that I had
(31:09):
to solve, you know, it'ssomething to be proud of, of
course, and any entrepreneurthat's kind of broke through
that barrier have been allthrough the same thing.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
You've been doing something.
You know one thing for the mostpart right, for a long time and
you've modified what yourbusiness is right.
It starts off one thing and itbecomes the next, but it's the
same core product that you'rearound.
Have you found moments ofasking for a friend, of course?
Have you found moments when youfeel like you had
overcomplicated it and you justcame back to the original
(31:38):
premise?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Oh yeah, you start to feel insecure with your product
because you know, you know therevenue could be higher, you
know it could have a betterbottom line, and so you start
overcompensating with makingthings far more complicated than
they are and we're still, youknow, still peeling away that
stuff, even here at everline,stuff that I did early on, that
(32:01):
was baked into the system.
That's super convoluted, thatwe need to, we need to simplify
and get out there, and thattakes time to get that sorted
out there.
And but no, we, we definitelydid, and you know it's coming
from the position of of, youknow, just trying to
overcompensate and that is, youknow, that's a natural
(32:25):
progression and there's nothingwrong with doing that to try
something else.
But if it doesn't work, don'tbe afraid to promptly cut that
off and focus on the coreproduct or service.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
I appreciate it.
John, thanks so much forjoining me today.
I really, really appreciate you.
Thanks, thomas, this was great,and those who have made it this
point you point.
Thank you for being here aswell.
This is your first time here.
I hope it's the first of many,and if you've been here before,
you know what to do.
Go cut a tie to somethingholding you back, but first to
find that success on your ownterms.
You know what it is holding youback from your success.
(32:55):
Thanks for listening.
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