July 21, 2025 • 28 mins
Cut The Tie Podcast with Adam Bergman
What if everything you’ve been told about retirement and investing is outdated—or worse, rigged against you? In this episode of Cut The Tie, Thomas Helfrich sits down with Adam Bergman, founder of IRA Financial, to talk about the myth of financial freedom through Wall Street and how entrepreneurs can reclaim control of their wealth through self-directed retirement plans.
After a successful career as a tax attorney, Adam saw firsthand how limited traditional investment advice really was. So he cut the tie, built a business around alternative investing, and now helps thousands of Americans take charge of their financial futures—without asking permission from brokers or big banks.
About Adam Bergman
Adam Bergman is a tax attorney, best-selling author, and founder of IRA Financial, one of the leading platforms for self-directed retirement accounts. With expertise in alternative assets, tax structures, and investing strategies, Adam has built a firm that empowers entrepreneurs and investors to use their retirement accounts for real estate, startups, crypto, and more. He’s also the host of the AdBits podcast, where he breaks down complex retirement strategies in plain English.
In this episode, Thomas and Adam discuss:
- Cutting ties with the Wall Street narrative
Adam shares why traditional retirement planning doesn’t work for most entrepreneurs—and how self-directed IRAs offer more flexibility and control. - From tax attorney to financial rebel
He breaks down the moment he realized he wanted to serve clients directly—not just protect banks—and how that led to launching IRA Financial. - Why entrepreneurs are the best investors
Adam explains how business owners already have the mindset to evaluate deals, take calculated risks, and build lasting wealth. - The big lie of “diversification”
According to Adam, putting all your savings in mutual funds and stocks isn’t diversified—it’s boxed in. He shares smarter ways to hedge and grow.
Key Takeaways:
- Wall Street doesn’t serve entrepreneurs
If you want real control and returns, look beyond the big firms and traditional funds. - You are your best investment advisor
No one knows your risk tolerance, goals, or vision like you do. Own it. - Self-direction = freedom
When you can invest your retirement money in real estate, startups, or your own business—you’re truly free. - Tax law is a tool, not a trap
Learn the rules, then use them to your advantage. That’s how wealthy people win. - Building wealth is about structure, not shortcuts
Smart frameworks, not fast money, lead to lasting freedom.
Connect with Adam Bergman
💼 LinkedIn: Adam Bergman
🌐 Website: www.irafinancialgroup.com
🎧 Podcast: AdBits Podcast
Connect with Thomas Helfrich
🐦 Twitter: @thelfrich
📘 Facebook:
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Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Cut the Tie podcast.
Hello, I'm your host, thomasHelfrich.
We are on a mission to help youcut the tie to whatever it is
holding you back from success,and so today we're going to be
joined by Adam Bergman.
Adam, how are you?
I'm great, how are you doing?
I always tell people I'mdelicious or tantalizing or some
form of a word where they kindof go interesting, so I'm
(00:21):
delicious.
Today You're in Miami so youcould be effervescent.
It's a nice one too.
Yeah that's actually started?
I would hope so.
It's Miami.
Take a moment, introduceyourself and what it is you do.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Okay, thanks.
So I'm Adam Bergman.
I am and the founder of IRAFinancial, which is a leading
self-directed retirement company.
We have over 25,000 accounts,over $4 billion in assets, and I
used to be a tax attorneybefore I found my calling.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I love that because it sounds boring to be a tax
attorney.
But very well, it's a lucrativebusiness because it's endless
work.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Listen, I was a tax lawyer in New York city so it
was exciting.
I worked on a lot of cool stuff.
I worked at really big lawfirms.
The first five years were funReally.
I got to do different stuff,really cool deals.
After that it got a littletiresome because it was very
repetitive in terms of the sametypes of deals, same documents.
It was very repetitive in termsof the same types of deals,
same documents.
(01:27):
So it became repetitious andnot as exciting.
Tell me about the switch.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
So when did you switch?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
over to.
I got lucky Like anything inlife.
I just had an opportunity.
I was an eighth year taxassociate and I never heard of a
self-record IRA in my life.
In fact, I didn't even knowthat you can do anything other
than stocks or mutual funds withyour IRA or 401k.
So I was asked by a partner Iwas working with to research
(01:53):
whether a hedge fund client orthe law firm I was at could use
his IRA individual retirementaccount to invest in a hedge
fund.
He was the general partner, soI remember thinking this is
interesting.
Probably not, but let me dosome research.
At that point, this was 2008.
So we actually had librarieswithin the law firm, believe it
or not, and I remember going tothe library.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Let me get the Gen Z up.
That's a place where there'sbooks and you go there.
I've never been there, butanyway.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Exactly and in fact, up until really the mid 2012, 13
, like law firms, wereallocating whole, entire floors
to library and you can imagine,you know, the cost of square
footage in New York city for,literally, books.
So anyways, I found a book onretirement accounts and I was
blown away and in fact the taxcode was very clear that, yes,
(02:41):
you can do alternative assetswith your retirement account or
IRA or 401k.
So, literally, I remember thenext day I started doing some
research about what the industrywas, who the players are, how
it works, and then, within Idon't know three or four months,
I quit my law firm job and tookme about a year to kind of
raise the money, start IRAfinancial and get my feet off
(03:03):
the ground and then we're off tothe races and it's been.
The last 15 years have beensuper fun because I get to do
what I love.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So I think we were talking.
You're my age 49.
So mid-30s, that's a bold move.
Usually people have to get laidoff a couple of times before
they go make that move.
So good for you.
What was in your own journey ofsuccess?
What's been the kind of biggestmetaphorical eye you've had to
cut to find it?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
So I think I got some of the best advice I got out of
a friend whose dad was a verysuccessful software entrepreneur
, and I remember the last coupleof years being a lawyer.
I just wasn't feeling it.
I was trying to find what mynext move was going to be.
Do I find another law firm?
Do I try to find a business Iwant to do?
And I just didn't know what Iwanted to do.
I just didn't understand andreally know what the future
(03:51):
would life.
So the best advice I ever gotwas hey, adam, you got to do
something where you have theexpertise and passion.
And if you, you know tax lawyou've been a tax lawyer for
eight years.
You have a master's in tax law.
Know tax law You've been a taxlawyer for eight years.
You have a master's in tax law.
You know tax law better thanmost people, most lawyers.
Why don't you try to findsomething associated with tax
law?
And to use the analogy, it'slike if you want to go and start
(04:12):
a chair business, there's ahundred people that know more
about chairs and you have nopedigree.
You're going to always becatching up, but with tax law,
you're going to automaticallystart at the top.
You're going to have thepedigree, you're going to have
the trust from the consumer.
So you need to find a businessthat's centered and focused
around tax law, and I alwayskept that in the back of my head
(04:33):
and that's when I found thisself-directed industry and this
idea and that's kind of what gotme running with it.
So that was probably the highof my journey from lawyer to
entrepreneur is just realizingokay, this is what I like, this
is what I'm good at, and I needto find a business in this area
because otherwise I'm going tobe climbing up a pretty steep
hill, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
So how do you define success then?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
For me this is cliche , but it's true.
It's not just dollars and cents, it's for me.
I wake up every morning and I'msuper passionate and I want to
keep running and going andpushing, and pushing, and
pushing.
So I love what I do.
Um, when I'm on vacation, I'mworking.
Right to me, Working is fun,believe it or not.
Like, uh, yeah, I want to go tothe beach and I want to ski and
(05:20):
do all the great stuff.
But, like I'm always thinkingabout my business, I'm always
thinking how can I help peoplesay better, say more, make it
easier, more exciting to savefor your retirement using a
retirement account.
So that success is I want tobuild the biggest and best
retirement company because Iwant to essentially totally
disrupt the industry where youcan eventually hopefully soon on
(05:41):
one platform, be able to buystocks, real estate, eventually,
hopefully soon on one platform,be able to buy stocks, real
estate, cryptos, every type oflegal asset in an IRA on one
platform, in one place, withouthaving to have IRAs in different
types of institutions.
So until I get there, I'm goingto keep pushing and that's my
story of success.
When I get there, I'll besuccessful.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah Well, you'll be back on the show when you are
successful but different.
I will tell you in my ownjourney here, as you learn about
business and start newcompanies.
I've learned about Robs, whichis RBS, and I'm sure you're
familiar with it and if I'll saywhat I know about it,
effectively, you could take aqualifying 401k.
So when it's not, you know it'sin a, let's say, a pre-tax,
(06:22):
whatever managed by JP Morgulansor something, it doesn't matter
, it's yours.
You can move it to actually gocreate a management company and
leverage it to build a business,fund it and do it.
So I mean, is this one of thealternatives you work with as
well and explain it better thanI do, because I'm still learning
about it, but I'm like well,that really opens up the door
(06:43):
for buying real estate or fordoing other stuff, right, I mean
, he showed a book.
So for those listening here, Iwrote a book.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I wrote the first book.
It's called Turning RetirementFunds into Startup Dreams.
It's on the ROBS.
So I'm one of the few companiesin the country that specialize
in ROBS.
We've helped thousands ofpeople.
It's one of the products wework with.
And, yeah, it's one of theproducts we work with.
And, yeah, it's a really,really great structure.
It works.
If you are looking to start abusiness, um, and you want to
use your retirement funds,you're going to own more than
(07:11):
50% of the business and you wantto be involved in it and have
your retirement account own it.
So when you sell it, the moneygoes back to your retirement
account, tax free.
The Rob's all over businessstartup solution is a great,
great, great solution, um,something that I've been working
with for 15 plus years.
I mean I was going to put thatin perspective for people.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
So let's say you have a half a million in your
retirement account and you moveit a hundred percent of that
over to a company that'swhatever it is.
Maybe you're going to go buyreal estate and that's what you
whatever, whatever the legalreason is.
That's one of them I believeyou can do from a management
company.
As long as it's a legitimatebusiness, you can pay yourself
out of that as a member of thebusiness.
So if you needed money to payyourself, you're paying yourself
(07:51):
on an investment that if youlose it, it's a lost investment,
not a penalty from a retirementaccount.
You spend every dollar of it.
You just lost the investment.
That's a fair way to look at itwhere you could truly leverage
it.
Act free or you'll pay yourincome tax as she comes in, but
the point being is you risk it.
(08:13):
You get more value out of itthan taking it.
You want to make money with it.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
You're 100% right.
I remember first learning aboutit like 20 years ago, and I
remember talking to a colleagueand we both were like seems too
good to be true.
The IRS came out with amemorandum on this in 2008,
basically saying, yes, legal,but you need to comply with
certain requirements.
But essentially, yeah, it takesadvantage of an exception in
(08:38):
the tax code that allows a 401kto buy qualified employer
securities or corporate stock.
That's why it doesn't work in aself-directed IRA.
The self-directed IRA cannotinvest in an entity controlled
50% or more by such persons,right?
So in the case of a ROBS,you're using a C-Corp and a 401k
, which allows you to circumventthe prohibitive transaction
(08:58):
rules that attack IRAs and allowyou to do some really cool
stuff like invest in yourself,earn a salary and sell for an
agency tax Buy.
Do some really cool stuff likeinvest in yourself, earn a
salary and sell brand GV's tax,buy a franchise Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
And I love the idea is, if you actually make money
and then at some point you knowyou exit the business, you don't
even have to sell it, it justreturns back to the custody of
the piece.
So it's a brilliant thing thatallows you to build wealth and
say, hey, I'm going to sell this.
I don't know how you exit.
We'll take that offline maybe.
But the point being is youcould build wealth, use it to
(09:29):
make moves and have a retirementthat's waiting for you that
goes back in tax-free and you'rejust into it so you can live
along the way.
So I had no idea about it ayear ago.
I'm like holy cow, that'spowerful, that's cool.
Yeah, I didn't read your book,so I'll take with you offline a
bit about how you did that inthe setup 10 years.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Wow, yeah, 10 years, 2015.
I gotta update it actually, butthe core the core is is still
accurate.
Maybe the the some of the taxrates are a little bit off, but,
um, yeah, you can do it.
It's a really cool structuresee your, your, your thought.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
If you guys had a thought right there, that was
the sound of a thought going onit.
It's like you should call himAll right.
So, hey, listen along the way.
I want to come back tosomething In your journey you've
had.
But what was the actual like?
This is one challenge I had toovercome, like everyone has them
in any business, like it couldbe, you know, I had family
(10:22):
members in the business.
I had to stop doing this.
I had to quit drinking.
It could be anything we alwayswant to know from you.
What was the one thing youreally had to start doing or
stop doing?
That was getting in your wayfor success.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah.
So it's very important.
If I ever got to teach anentrepreneurial class, this is
what I focus on and it'sbasically you have to be loyal
to your business and not yourfriends and people that you grew
attached to in the business.
So my business started very,very small with one account and
I started in a like a WeWorkright and it was basically me
(10:55):
and my wife and now we have ahundred plus employees and
unfortunately I'm a loyal personand as the company grew and got
more sophisticated, I knew inthe bottom of my heart that some
of these people just didn'thave the skill set necessary to
kind of keep scaling thebusiness and growing and growing
, and growing.
(11:16):
But I really liked them and Istay attached to them and
unfortunately I ended up doingmyself a disservice, the
business a disservice and them adisservice, because I was
putting them in a role theycouldn't succeed in.
So ultimately I ended up havingto kind of part ways with them
and if I did it at the righttime when we kind of probably
both knew it was time, theywould have been able to find
(11:38):
probably a more suitable job anda longer career path instead of
having to get through a messyseparation and making it kind of
hard for both of us andactually impacting the company,
because there were sometechnology issues we were having
because the tech people that Iwas loyal to just weren't able
to handle some of thesophistication of the company as
(11:59):
it grew.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
It's a listen.
And I I'm going through thisright now where I personally I
made a bad business decisionbecause of my personal
attachment, affiliation with myteam of trying to make it secure
for them when the model youknow, at some point we were so
busy that it made sense to payone flat fee and then, as we
decreased or just changed ourservices, it didn't make sense
(12:21):
and I didn't do anything aboutit for six months.
And I'm recently going throughit now where I'm like, hey, we
got to go back to a differentmodel and it doing about it for
six months.
And I'm recently going throughit now where I'm like, hey, we
got to go back to a differentmodel and it impacts people and
your heart's in the right place,but it's.
And then there's a coach I havethat he's like every business
goes through this.
He's like just be happy that itwasn't family.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, so you got to cut the tongue.
I mean, you're actually doing adisservice to you and the
person.
Cut the tie when you know,trust your gut.
The person cut the tie when youknow trust your gut, you know
it's not right.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
You just see that the skill set's not there, they're
not as confident.
Yeah, for you it was.
For me it was more of just abusiness.
Yeah, but it comes down to likeyou know, you're letting a
person.
This is the.
This is the lesson to take away.
I think right is it?
And I usually ask you this, butI'm gonna say the lesson you
can agree or disagree is is thatyou really have to discloud
your personal judgment.
It is not a family, it is asports team maybe a better
(13:12):
analogy for a team and it's likeyou have to make the moves to
win and everyone's got to be onthe same page for that.
But that's a really hard lessonand it's something you're not
going to catch till too late,probably, but everyone's going
to go through it typically.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
I understand, I was like yeah, exactly the skillset
necessary for a business with amillion dollars of revenue
versus $20 million of revenue isvery different, and my idea was
that, hey, if I like you,you're smart, you can figure it
out.
Um, but not everyone couldfigure it out.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Right, yeah, I mean, it's a different evolution.
You need a different CEO at amillion than you do at 20
million and different at 200.
And, knowing your ownlimitations, Like for me, I'm
like I want to exit when thecompany's got a valuation of 10
to 20.
Why?
Because I get bored whenoperations get going.
I'm like I want to go buildsomething new.
It's also where your skill setis.
(14:06):
So same thing goes withemployees as well.
You have people who can doeverything but can't do one
thing really really well.
They're great early.
Later on, you use some peoplethat are just really focused on
what they can do well.
So what are you most gratefulfor?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Oh, probably, I would say it's kind of cliche, but
like my wife my wife basicallybecause she helped me start this
business and without her Idon't know if I would have quit
law.
To be honest, I was a littlebit scared because I was making
good money, kind of had thegolden handcuffs.
I was in a New York City youknow eighth year associate.
(14:40):
I was making good money and Icould have potentially made
partner and had a nice career inlaw.
But she kept saying this isyour passion, you love law, but
it's not your calling, go for it.
And at that point I was in myearly 30s, I had no kids.
So she's like listen, this isour chance.
Let's take a year, two years.
We have savings, we'll downsize, let's start the business.
(15:04):
Worst comes to worst, it fails.
You can always go get a lawfirm job.
But she supported me.
I'm not sure everyone in thatcase would support the fact that
I was going to go from a fewhundred thousand dollars a year
to potentially zero.
Really, for the first year anda half I didn't take any salary.
So we definitely had to cutback on our expenses and weren't
able to go out every weekendand do the stuff we were
(15:25):
accustomed to living in New YorkCity, so it was a big, I think,
a sacrifice, but she got methrough it.
So I'm totally grateful to herfor getting me through, getting
me here and helped me start thebusiness those who may be
(15:47):
listening.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
You're going from like a 10, 11 or more state tax
bracket to zero.
Yeah, you get you other ways,but that's by your choice.
And then now you're like youdon't have to make nearly as
much and going out, there'schoice.
It's just different and you'relike and it's warm, so, um, it's
amazing social financialengineering by moving that's
amazing.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah, I actually.
I actually was in new york whenI moved.
We only moved kind of as thecompany was starting, but one of
the that's amazing finale themore inexpensive part of Florida
(16:21):
.
I think my half is moreexpensive than New York City now
, honestly.
They're like I don't mind$4,000 a month Exactly, but it
did save me $25,000, $30,000 ayear, which was money I was able
to put into the business.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Exactly, and so I think sometimes, you know, I
always kind of find thesereflective moments.
But if you can find these kindof ways of let's try something
new, you get one life.
You've always said I've alwayswanted to live here or live
there, and it's 30, 40% less andyou can at the same time
downsize or right size yourselfto what it is you're trying to
do for two to five years.
Don't be afraid of that.
(16:58):
The sting of status goes awaypretty quick, quickly.
I'm sure that was part of whatyou had to deal with is the
sting of big city attorney.
You're like no, I'm not fatlike there's there's a, there's
a, there's a.
You know family and friends andthe circles around you
definitely judge when you makethose moves.
So nothing.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Listen the.
The one thing I'll say to yourlisteners is nothing worthwhile
is easy, and when you start abusiness, expect 10 years.
Expect that you're going towork your butt off for 10 years.
It's rare.
It's impossible to sell yourbusiness within two years, three
years, four years.
That doesn't happen unlessyou've developed some AI
platform.
(17:38):
It's 10 years.
You're going to work your buttoff, but it'll be worth it.
If you find your passion.
It's going to be hard and funand great.
10 years.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I think that the scenario where you can do it in
three is where you've solved aproblem, you've exited and
you're in a position, becauseyou're exit, to solve that
problem again slightlydifferently or for a different
market, and you're just going togo build the exact same
business and go resell to thesame people that just bought
your other one and they love it.
Like, go do the hard work, yep,great, we'll take that one too.
(18:11):
And like, literally that'swhere it happens, because you
focused in on something you knowyou can do well and I want to
leave people with somethingbefore we kind of get in this
last section.
Here you said something veryimportant you focused on where
you have passion, some potential, which are skills, and it had a
real problem to solve.
And you need all three of thoseto have a successful business,
because if any one of those issmall, you'll burn out.
(18:32):
You won't be able to competebecause you won't be good at it
or there's not enough peoplethere to make money from.
And it's really important tohave all three of those.
Specifically, if you're juststarting, because you're going
to be able to do it, you needthe passion, because that's the
fuel for 10 years and yourskills are the engine and then
after that you know, the problempays for it.
So yeah, that's super important, and if you don't have those,
(18:54):
look someplace else.
Shift, shift.
Now say that way yeah, I'll.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I can give you a quick analogy.
I remember I was in law schooland a couple of my buddies.
We were looking this is likethecom bubble and we're looking
to be like a legal document typecompany.
I remember we were doing thenumbers and we're looking at how
many documents we'd have tosell to make a few hundred
thousand dollars a year each.
And it was such a huge numberthat we said it's just the
(19:20):
market's not big enough.
At this point it's not worthour effort.
That we said it's just themarket's not big enough.
At this point it's not worthour effort.
We can be lawyers and make thesame amount of money with no
risk.
So I agree with you you have tolook at the market because if
the market's not big enough,don't waste your time.
Go find another business to do.
You don't want to be spendingall this time for making less
than you could just having anine to five job.
It's not worth it.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Where that works is side hustle.
So you have a very niche smallmarket you can serve with almost
no effort.
Do it Because you can.
You can flow in, even if it'slike a couple thousand a month.
3000 a month, you know that'sthat's mortgage money, right.
And if you can spend hours amonth to do that, it's that way.
Keep your W-2, keep yourinsurance.
Do all that and build a sidehustle.
(20:03):
Instead of watching Netflix, gowork on it for an hour every
night.
I mean like that's it.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I agree, but don't quit your job for a business
that the max you're going to beable to do is less than what
you're making.
Nine to five, it doesn't makesense.
Take that risk.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
The reward needs to satisfy the risk.
Extending that a great measureof success is if you can replace
your W-2 income.
You're killing it, Absolutelykilling it.
And if it took you four yearsof college, four years of law
school or three years of lawschool and let's say 10 years as
a lawyer, to get to $350,000 ayear, don't expect, in three
(20:39):
years you're going to return$350,000.
In three years you're going toreturn it $350,000.
So just know that it's going totake that same probably amount
of time to get to a masterylevel and a business level and a
profitability level to figurethat stuff out.
But just know that if you'remaking $100 a year, you get out
and start making $80,000,$90,000, or $100 a year.
You're killing it.
No one's laying you off exceptyou at that point.
So it's hard.
(21:05):
I could do a whole podcast onthat and probably a series which
I think I have.
Yeah, uh, rapid fire, just justkind of winding in here.
Who gives you inspiration oh,that's good.
Probably steve jobs peter thealeyeah, two, two awesome ones to
go do it.
I mean the.
What gives you most like me aone-liner?
What's the?
What's the?
What's the hook into them?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Well, steve Jobs just the fact is his attention to
detail and creativity.
And Peter Thiel he's got a $5billion Roth IRA, so he was able
to use the Roth IRA in a way toinvest in PayPal, facebook and
Palantir all tax-free.
So he'll generate $5 billionplus in tax-free wealth because
he was able to use a Roth IRAversus personal money.
(21:44):
So he's my hero.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I mean, he is the use case for what you're trying to
show people.
You can be done, and that'swhat I was like.
I don't normally do a follow-upon that, but I thought that
might be important.
You know we want to promotepeople here.
By the way, I think you'vealready shared kind of the best
business advice you've receiveda bit, but I do want to know
kind of what your must read bookis.
What would you recommend?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Oh, I, the Steve jobs book.
There's a.
There's a Steve jobs book thatWalter Isaacson wrote, and I
just finished, several monthsago, the Walter Isaacson book on
Elon Musk, which I thought wasamazing.
Whatever you think of Elon Muskpolitically or not, it doesn't
matter, read that book becauseyou can see how much this guy
cares and how much he's lookingto disrupt processes.
(22:28):
So, for example, if a processtakes 10 steps, he's going to
want to see how it can be donein three steps, and this guy
will sleep on the factory floor,if he has to, to focus on each
detail in the process to makesure he can help his team.
So it was very, veryinteresting.
It's, to me, a must read.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
I hadn't heard that one, so I will definitely put
that on one of the list ofthings I need to go do.
If you had to start over today,when would you go back in time?
At what point in your life?
And?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
what would you do differently?
So if I had to go back in time,I'd probably go back to 2020 or
so, right around when thepandemic was starting and we saw
a huge uptick in businessbecause we were one of the first
companies to have a cryptoplatform for retirement accounts
, and I would have brought inway more talented people.
The biggest mistake I made inmy business as a first-time CEO
(23:20):
I didn't understand theimportance of talent.
I just kind of thought that,hey, I kind of know this stuff,
so I'll just surround myselfwith people I like and people
that are smart and we'll figureit out together Right, and like
a basketball analogy, like I'llbe LeBron James, I'll get some
shooters around me, so if I'm introuble double team, I'll pitch
it off to them.
They'll hit the corner threeit's going to be great.
Didn't work out the way itshould have, because I need.
(23:42):
I should have had better talent, so pay for talent.
So pay for talent.
If you have excess profit, dumpit back in your business pay
for talent, talent, talent,talent.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
People matter, yep, and hold them accountable.
I think set it up in a way thatyou you take, you know, be
slower to hire, but really fastto get rid of people who are
clearly turds, or just interviewwell, get rid of them fast
because it's going to kill you,like now you have, like it's
like a basketball analogy.
It's like having somebody onthe other team that's shooting
(24:15):
the wrong basket.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
You're like dude yeah , that's a cancer and you know
it.
The problem is we all know it,right?
You, you know you.
I've hired thousands of peopleover the years.
Like you, can tell right awaywhen someone's good and then the
the people that aren't so good.
You just give them the benefitof the doubt because no one
likes to separate from anyone,but it's the best for both
parties.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
It is.
If there's one question Ishould ask today and I didn't,
what should have I asked you andhow would you?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
answer it, I guess if your listeners were interested
just the tax benefits, like whysomeone should use a retirement
account to invest.
And I would say there's twomain reasons right.
Number one if you use a pre-taxretirement account, you get a
tax deduction, which is great.
And then the second benefit isyour money grows tax-free in a
(25:00):
retirement account, so somethingcalled compounded returns, with
Albert Einstein coined.
The eighth wonder of the worldthat's how smart people get rich
is your money grows faster whenit's not subject to taxation
Rule 72, if you assume a 9% rateof return, every eight years
your money doubles.
So people need to understand thepower of compounded returns and
(25:20):
the power of the US retirementsystem.
And the last thing I'll sayit's literally rigged in our
favor.
It's the only area where youhave bipartisan support between
Democrats and Republicans.
Why?
Because it works.
So if you're going to save, ifyou take anything away from this
, open an IRA, save.
If you have access to a 401kand you're getting a match from
your employer, put as much in asyou can.
It is the best and smartest wayto save.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah, I mean, it's like the entry point for sure,
and I love what Elon Musk didsay.
He's like hey, listen, taxesare just social engineering at
scale.
They are there only to serveyou to do something or not do
something.
So we want you to buy homes, wegive you tax deduction, we want
people to get tied into workingcorporate and do this while you
(26:03):
have this, and this is one ofthose functions that serves very
wealthy people as well, and sothat's why it exists.
That's why everyone agrees like, oh, that helps us, and so, as
long as it makes money foreveryone, it will exist, and
it's going to for some time.
So, if anything, it willimprove because more wealth will
come and people will be like,hey, you need to engineer 2%
more out of this.
They'll find a way.
And that's really the socialengineering that makes all this
(26:33):
stuff work, is it benefits?
Speaker 2 (26:34):
every wealthy person who makes a decision Fair enough
, exactly, yeah, how do you getahold of you?
Shameless plug time for you.
Yeah, I know you can check outour YouTube channel at IRA
Financial or websiteIRAfinancialcom.
Tons of great content onvarious topics on retirement
accounts, self-directed IRAs,401ks, robs and how you can
potentially shelter your incomegains from the investment tax
rate.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
You know I never asked this question.
I think it might be a fun oneto ask you.
What would you title thisYouTube channel?
Our YouTube episode.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Oh, great, great question, because we talked
about entrepreneurship and alsoretirement accounts.
So I don't know.
I think you can go both ways.
I'm not that creative, I'm justa lawyer.
I'm never creative enough.
That's what I got out of lawschool.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
I can't answer that legally.
No, I would tell you answers.
Ask AI.
So that's what we're going todo.
Yeah, okay, that's true, adam.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
You rock, oh sure, thank you somuch.
Yeah, listen, adam.
I mean listen.
You maybe just listened to himfor the first time.
He's a big deal.
You need to check out what hedoes.
He's one of the OGs in the gamein this, so go check out his
(27:40):
YouTube.
It'll be in the show notes.
Get out there.
Go cut a tie to somethingholding you back.
Welcome to Cut the Tie podcast.
Hello, I'm your host, thomasHelfrich.
We are on a mission to help youcut the tie to whatever it is
holding you back from success,and so today we're going to be
joined by Adam Bergman.
Adam, how are you?
I'm great, how are you doing?
I always tell people I'mdelicious or tantalizing or some
form of a word where they kindof go interesting, so I'm
(00:21):
delicious.
Today You're in Miami so youcould be effervescent.
It's a nice one too.
Yeah that's actually started?
I would hope so.
It's Miami.
Take a moment, introduceyourself and what it is you do.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Okay, thanks.
So I'm Adam Bergman.
I am and the founder of IRAFinancial, which is a leading
self-directed retirement company.
We have over 25,000 accounts,over $4 billion in assets, and I
used to be a tax attorneybefore I found my calling.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I love that because it sounds boring to be a tax
attorney.
But very well, it's a lucrativebusiness because it's endless
work.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Listen, I was a tax lawyer in New York city so it
was exciting.
I worked on a lot of cool stuff.
I worked at really big lawfirms.
The first five years were funReally.
I got to do different stuff,really cool deals.
After that it got a littletiresome because it was very
repetitive in terms of the sametypes of deals, same documents.
It was very repetitive in termsof the same types of deals,
same documents.
(01:27):
So it became repetitious andnot as exciting.
Tell me about the switch.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
So when did you switch?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
over to.
I got lucky Like anything inlife.
I just had an opportunity.
I was an eighth year taxassociate and I never heard of a
self-record IRA in my life.
In fact, I didn't even knowthat you can do anything other
than stocks or mutual funds withyour IRA or 401k.
So I was asked by a partner Iwas working with to research
(01:53):
whether a hedge fund client orthe law firm I was at could use
his IRA individual retirementaccount to invest in a hedge
fund.
He was the general partner, soI remember thinking this is
interesting.
Probably not, but let me dosome research.
At that point, this was 2008.
So we actually had librarieswithin the law firm, believe it
or not, and I remember going tothe library.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Let me get the Gen Z up.
That's a place where there'sbooks and you go there.
I've never been there, butanyway.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Exactly and in fact, up until really the mid 2012, 13
, like law firms, wereallocating whole, entire floors
to library and you can imagine,you know, the cost of square
footage in New York city for,literally, books.
So anyways, I found a book onretirement accounts and I was
blown away and in fact the taxcode was very clear that, yes,
(02:41):
you can do alternative assetswith your retirement account or
IRA or 401k.
So, literally, I remember thenext day I started doing some
research about what the industrywas, who the players are, how
it works, and then, within Idon't know three or four months,
I quit my law firm job and tookme about a year to kind of
raise the money, start IRAfinancial and get my feet off
(03:03):
the ground and then we're off tothe races and it's been.
The last 15 years have beensuper fun because I get to do
what I love.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So I think we were talking.
You're my age 49.
So mid-30s, that's a bold move.
Usually people have to get laidoff a couple of times before
they go make that move.
So good for you.
What was in your own journey ofsuccess?
What's been the kind of biggestmetaphorical eye you've had to
cut to find it?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
So I think I got some of the best advice I got out of
a friend whose dad was a verysuccessful software entrepreneur
, and I remember the last coupleof years being a lawyer.
I just wasn't feeling it.
I was trying to find what mynext move was going to be.
Do I find another law firm?
Do I try to find a business Iwant to do?
And I just didn't know what Iwanted to do.
I just didn't understand andreally know what the future
(03:51):
would life.
So the best advice I ever gotwas hey, adam, you got to do
something where you have theexpertise and passion.
And if you, you know tax lawyou've been a tax lawyer for
eight years.
You have a master's in tax law.
Know tax law You've been a taxlawyer for eight years.
You have a master's in tax law.
You know tax law better thanmost people, most lawyers.
Why don't you try to findsomething associated with tax
law?
And to use the analogy, it'slike if you want to go and start
(04:12):
a chair business, there's ahundred people that know more
about chairs and you have nopedigree.
You're going to always becatching up, but with tax law,
you're going to automaticallystart at the top.
You're going to have thepedigree, you're going to have
the trust from the consumer.
So you need to find a businessthat's centered and focused
around tax law, and I alwayskept that in the back of my head
(04:33):
and that's when I found thisself-directed industry and this
idea and that's kind of what gotme running with it.
So that was probably the highof my journey from lawyer to
entrepreneur is just realizingokay, this is what I like, this
is what I'm good at, and I needto find a business in this area
because otherwise I'm going tobe climbing up a pretty steep
hill, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
So how do you define success then?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
For me this is cliche , but it's true.
It's not just dollars and cents, it's for me.
I wake up every morning and I'msuper passionate and I want to
keep running and going andpushing, and pushing, and
pushing.
So I love what I do.
Um, when I'm on vacation, I'mworking.
Right to me, Working is fun,believe it or not.
Like, uh, yeah, I want to go tothe beach and I want to ski and
(05:20):
do all the great stuff.
But, like I'm always thinkingabout my business, I'm always
thinking how can I help peoplesay better, say more, make it
easier, more exciting to savefor your retirement using a
retirement account.
So that success is I want tobuild the biggest and best
retirement company because Iwant to essentially totally
disrupt the industry where youcan eventually hopefully soon on
(05:41):
one platform, be able to buystocks, real estate, eventually,
hopefully soon on one platform,be able to buy stocks, real
estate, cryptos, every type oflegal asset in an IRA on one
platform, in one place, withouthaving to have IRAs in different
types of institutions.
So until I get there, I'm goingto keep pushing and that's my
story of success.
When I get there, I'll besuccessful.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah Well, you'll be back on the show when you are
successful but different.
I will tell you in my ownjourney here, as you learn about
business and start newcompanies.
I've learned about Robs, whichis RBS, and I'm sure you're
familiar with it and if I'll saywhat I know about it,
effectively, you could take aqualifying 401k.
So when it's not, you know it'sin a, let's say, a pre-tax,
(06:22):
whatever managed by JP Morgulansor something, it doesn't matter
, it's yours.
You can move it to actually gocreate a management company and
leverage it to build a business,fund it and do it.
So I mean, is this one of thealternatives you work with as
well and explain it better thanI do, because I'm still learning
about it, but I'm like well,that really opens up the door
(06:43):
for buying real estate or fordoing other stuff, right, I mean
, he showed a book.
So for those listening here, Iwrote a book.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I wrote the first book.
It's called Turning RetirementFunds into Startup Dreams.
It's on the ROBS.
So I'm one of the few companiesin the country that specialize
in ROBS.
We've helped thousands ofpeople.
It's one of the products wework with.
And, yeah, it's one of theproducts we work with.
And, yeah, it's a really,really great structure.
It works.
If you are looking to start abusiness, um, and you want to
use your retirement funds,you're going to own more than
(07:11):
50% of the business and you wantto be involved in it and have
your retirement account own it.
So when you sell it, the moneygoes back to your retirement
account, tax free.
The Rob's all over businessstartup solution is a great,
great, great solution, um,something that I've been working
with for 15 plus years.
I mean I was going to put thatin perspective for people.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
So let's say you have a half a million in your
retirement account and you moveit a hundred percent of that
over to a company that'swhatever it is.
Maybe you're going to go buyreal estate and that's what you
whatever, whatever the legalreason is.
That's one of them I believeyou can do from a management
company.
As long as it's a legitimatebusiness, you can pay yourself
out of that as a member of thebusiness.
So if you needed money to payyourself, you're paying yourself
(07:51):
on an investment that if youlose it, it's a lost investment,
not a penalty from a retirementaccount.
You spend every dollar of it.
You just lost the investment.
That's a fair way to look at itwhere you could truly leverage
it.
Act free or you'll pay yourincome tax as she comes in, but
the point being is you risk it.
(08:13):
You get more value out of itthan taking it.
You want to make money with it.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
You're 100% right.
I remember first learning aboutit like 20 years ago, and I
remember talking to a colleagueand we both were like seems too
good to be true.
The IRS came out with amemorandum on this in 2008,
basically saying, yes, legal,but you need to comply with
certain requirements.
But essentially, yeah, it takesadvantage of an exception in
(08:38):
the tax code that allows a 401kto buy qualified employer
securities or corporate stock.
That's why it doesn't work in aself-directed IRA.
The self-directed IRA cannotinvest in an entity controlled
50% or more by such persons,right?
So in the case of a ROBS,you're using a C-Corp and a 401k
, which allows you to circumventthe prohibitive transaction
(08:58):
rules that attack IRAs and allowyou to do some really cool
stuff like invest in yourself,earn a salary and sell for an
agency tax Buy.
Do some really cool stuff likeinvest in yourself, earn a
salary and sell brand GV's tax,buy a franchise Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
And I love the idea is, if you actually make money
and then at some point you knowyou exit the business, you don't
even have to sell it, it justreturns back to the custody of
the piece.
So it's a brilliant thing thatallows you to build wealth and
say, hey, I'm going to sell this.
I don't know how you exit.
We'll take that offline maybe.
But the point being is youcould build wealth, use it to
(09:29):
make moves and have a retirementthat's waiting for you that
goes back in tax-free and you'rejust into it so you can live
along the way.
So I had no idea about it ayear ago.
I'm like holy cow, that'spowerful, that's cool.
Yeah, I didn't read your book,so I'll take with you offline a
bit about how you did that inthe setup 10 years.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Wow, yeah, 10 years, 2015.
I gotta update it actually, butthe core the core is is still
accurate.
Maybe the the some of the taxrates are a little bit off, but,
um, yeah, you can do it.
It's a really cool structuresee your, your, your thought.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
If you guys had a thought right there, that was
the sound of a thought going onit.
It's like you should call himAll right.
So, hey, listen along the way.
I want to come back tosomething In your journey you've
had.
But what was the actual like?
This is one challenge I had toovercome, like everyone has them
in any business, like it couldbe, you know, I had family
(10:22):
members in the business.
I had to stop doing this.
I had to quit drinking.
It could be anything we alwayswant to know from you.
What was the one thing youreally had to start doing or
stop doing?
That was getting in your wayfor success.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah.
So it's very important.
If I ever got to teach anentrepreneurial class, this is
what I focus on and it'sbasically you have to be loyal
to your business and not yourfriends and people that you grew
attached to in the business.
So my business started very,very small with one account and
I started in a like a WeWorkright and it was basically me
(10:55):
and my wife and now we have ahundred plus employees and
unfortunately I'm a loyal personand as the company grew and got
more sophisticated, I knew inthe bottom of my heart that some
of these people just didn'thave the skill set necessary to
kind of keep scaling thebusiness and growing and growing
, and growing.
(11:16):
But I really liked them and Istay attached to them and
unfortunately I ended up doingmyself a disservice, the
business a disservice and them adisservice, because I was
putting them in a role theycouldn't succeed in.
So ultimately I ended up havingto kind of part ways with them
and if I did it at the righttime when we kind of probably
both knew it was time, theywould have been able to find
(11:38):
probably a more suitable job anda longer career path instead of
having to get through a messyseparation and making it kind of
hard for both of us andactually impacting the company,
because there were sometechnology issues we were having
because the tech people that Iwas loyal to just weren't able
to handle some of thesophistication of the company as
(11:59):
it grew.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
It's a listen.
And I I'm going through thisright now where I personally I
made a bad business decisionbecause of my personal
attachment, affiliation with myteam of trying to make it secure
for them when the model youknow, at some point we were so
busy that it made sense to payone flat fee and then, as we
decreased or just changed ourservices, it didn't make sense
(12:21):
and I didn't do anything aboutit for six months.
And I'm recently going throughit now where I'm like, hey, we
got to go back to a differentmodel and it doing about it for
six months.
And I'm recently going throughit now where I'm like, hey, we
got to go back to a differentmodel and it impacts people and
your heart's in the right place,but it's.
And then there's a coach I havethat he's like every business
goes through this.
He's like just be happy that itwasn't family.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, so you got to cut the tongue.
I mean, you're actually doing adisservice to you and the
person.
Cut the tie when you know,trust your gut.
The person cut the tie when youknow trust your gut, you know
it's not right.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
You just see that the skill set's not there, they're
not as confident.
Yeah, for you it was.
For me it was more of just abusiness.
Yeah, but it comes down to likeyou know, you're letting a
person.
This is the.
This is the lesson to take away.
I think right is it?
And I usually ask you this, butI'm gonna say the lesson you
can agree or disagree is is thatyou really have to discloud
your personal judgment.
It is not a family, it is asports team maybe a better
(13:12):
analogy for a team and it's likeyou have to make the moves to
win and everyone's got to be onthe same page for that.
But that's a really hard lessonand it's something you're not
going to catch till too late,probably, but everyone's going
to go through it typically.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
I understand, I was like yeah, exactly the skillset
necessary for a business with amillion dollars of revenue
versus $20 million of revenue isvery different, and my idea was
that, hey, if I like you,you're smart, you can figure it
out.
Um, but not everyone couldfigure it out.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Right, yeah, I mean, it's a different evolution.
You need a different CEO at amillion than you do at 20
million and different at 200.
And, knowing your ownlimitations, Like for me, I'm
like I want to exit when thecompany's got a valuation of 10
to 20.
Why?
Because I get bored whenoperations get going.
I'm like I want to go buildsomething new.
It's also where your skill setis.
(14:06):
So same thing goes withemployees as well.
You have people who can doeverything but can't do one
thing really really well.
They're great early.
Later on, you use some peoplethat are just really focused on
what they can do well.
So what are you most gratefulfor?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Oh, probably, I would say it's kind of cliche, but
like my wife my wife basicallybecause she helped me start this
business and without her Idon't know if I would have quit
law.
To be honest, I was a littlebit scared because I was making
good money, kind of had thegolden handcuffs.
I was in a New York City youknow eighth year associate.
(14:40):
I was making good money and Icould have potentially made
partner and had a nice career inlaw.
But she kept saying this isyour passion, you love law, but
it's not your calling, go for it.
And at that point I was in myearly 30s, I had no kids.
So she's like listen, this isour chance.
Let's take a year, two years.
We have savings, we'll downsize, let's start the business.
(15:04):
Worst comes to worst, it fails.
You can always go get a lawfirm job.
But she supported me.
I'm not sure everyone in thatcase would support the fact that
I was going to go from a fewhundred thousand dollars a year
to potentially zero.
Really, for the first year anda half I didn't take any salary.
So we definitely had to cutback on our expenses and weren't
able to go out every weekendand do the stuff we were
(15:25):
accustomed to living in New YorkCity, so it was a big, I think,
a sacrifice, but she got methrough it.
So I'm totally grateful to herfor getting me through, getting
me here and helped me start thebusiness those who may be
(15:47):
listening.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
You're going from like a 10, 11 or more state tax
bracket to zero.
Yeah, you get you other ways,but that's by your choice.
And then now you're like youdon't have to make nearly as
much and going out, there'schoice.
It's just different and you'relike and it's warm, so, um, it's
amazing social financialengineering by moving that's
amazing.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah, I actually.
I actually was in new york whenI moved.
We only moved kind of as thecompany was starting, but one of
the that's amazing finale themore inexpensive part of Florida
(16:21):
.
I think my half is moreexpensive than New York City now
, honestly.
They're like I don't mind$4,000 a month Exactly, but it
did save me $25,000, $30,000 ayear, which was money I was able
to put into the business.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Exactly, and so I think sometimes, you know, I
always kind of find thesereflective moments.
But if you can find these kindof ways of let's try something
new, you get one life.
You've always said I've alwayswanted to live here or live
there, and it's 30, 40% less andyou can at the same time
downsize or right size yourselfto what it is you're trying to
do for two to five years.
Don't be afraid of that.
(16:58):
The sting of status goes awaypretty quick, quickly.
I'm sure that was part of whatyou had to deal with is the
sting of big city attorney.
You're like no, I'm not fatlike there's there's a, there's
a, there's a.
You know family and friends andthe circles around you
definitely judge when you makethose moves.
So nothing.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Listen the.
The one thing I'll say to yourlisteners is nothing worthwhile
is easy, and when you start abusiness, expect 10 years.
Expect that you're going towork your butt off for 10 years.
It's rare.
It's impossible to sell yourbusiness within two years, three
years, four years.
That doesn't happen unlessyou've developed some AI
platform.
(17:38):
It's 10 years.
You're going to work your buttoff, but it'll be worth it.
If you find your passion.
It's going to be hard and funand great.
10 years.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
I think that the scenario where you can do it in
three is where you've solved aproblem, you've exited and
you're in a position, becauseyou're exit, to solve that
problem again slightlydifferently or for a different
market, and you're just going togo build the exact same
business and go resell to thesame people that just bought
your other one and they love it.
Like, go do the hard work, yep,great, we'll take that one too.
(18:11):
And like, literally that'swhere it happens, because you
focused in on something you knowyou can do well and I want to
leave people with somethingbefore we kind of get in this
last section.
Here you said something veryimportant you focused on where
you have passion, some potential, which are skills, and it had a
real problem to solve.
And you need all three of thoseto have a successful business,
because if any one of those issmall, you'll burn out.
(18:32):
You won't be able to competebecause you won't be good at it
or there's not enough peoplethere to make money from.
And it's really important tohave all three of those.
Specifically, if you're juststarting, because you're going
to be able to do it, you needthe passion, because that's the
fuel for 10 years and yourskills are the engine and then
after that you know, the problempays for it.
So yeah, that's super important, and if you don't have those,
(18:54):
look someplace else.
Shift, shift.
Now say that way yeah, I'll.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I can give you a quick analogy.
I remember I was in law schooland a couple of my buddies.
We were looking this is likethecom bubble and we're looking
to be like a legal document typecompany.
I remember we were doing thenumbers and we're looking at how
many documents we'd have tosell to make a few hundred
thousand dollars a year each.
And it was such a huge numberthat we said it's just the
(19:20):
market's not big enough.
At this point it's not worthour effort.
That we said it's just themarket's not big enough.
At this point it's not worthour effort.
We can be lawyers and make thesame amount of money with no
risk.
So I agree with you you have tolook at the market because if
the market's not big enough,don't waste your time.
Go find another business to do.
You don't want to be spendingall this time for making less
than you could just having anine to five job.
It's not worth it.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Where that works is side hustle.
So you have a very niche smallmarket you can serve with almost
no effort.
Do it Because you can.
You can flow in, even if it'slike a couple thousand a month.
3000 a month, you know that'sthat's mortgage money, right.
And if you can spend hours amonth to do that, it's that way.
Keep your W-2, keep yourinsurance.
Do all that and build a sidehustle.
(20:03):
Instead of watching Netflix, gowork on it for an hour every
night.
I mean like that's it.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I agree, but don't quit your job for a business
that the max you're going to beable to do is less than what
you're making.
Nine to five, it doesn't makesense.
Take that risk.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
The reward needs to satisfy the risk.
Extending that a great measureof success is if you can replace
your W-2 income.
You're killing it, Absolutelykilling it.
And if it took you four yearsof college, four years of law
school or three years of lawschool and let's say 10 years as
a lawyer, to get to $350,000 ayear, don't expect, in three
(20:39):
years you're going to return$350,000.
In three years you're going toreturn it $350,000.
So just know that it's going totake that same probably amount
of time to get to a masterylevel and a business level and a
profitability level to figurethat stuff out.
But just know that if you'remaking $100 a year, you get out
and start making $80,000,$90,000, or $100 a year.
You're killing it.
No one's laying you off exceptyou at that point.
So it's hard.
(21:05):
I could do a whole podcast onthat and probably a series which
I think I have.
Yeah, uh, rapid fire, just justkind of winding in here.
Who gives you inspiration oh,that's good.
Probably steve jobs peter thealeyeah, two, two awesome ones to
go do it.
I mean the.
What gives you most like me aone-liner?
What's the?
What's the?
What's the hook into them?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Well, steve Jobs just the fact is his attention to
detail and creativity.
And Peter Thiel he's got a $5billion Roth IRA, so he was able
to use the Roth IRA in a way toinvest in PayPal, facebook and
Palantir all tax-free.
So he'll generate $5 billionplus in tax-free wealth because
he was able to use a Roth IRAversus personal money.
(21:44):
So he's my hero.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I mean, he is the use case for what you're trying to
show people.
You can be done, and that'swhat I was like.
I don't normally do a follow-upon that, but I thought that
might be important.
You know we want to promotepeople here.
By the way, I think you'vealready shared kind of the best
business advice you've receiveda bit, but I do want to know
kind of what your must read bookis.
What would you recommend?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Oh, I, the Steve jobs book.
There's a.
There's a Steve jobs book thatWalter Isaacson wrote, and I
just finished, several monthsago, the Walter Isaacson book on
Elon Musk, which I thought wasamazing.
Whatever you think of Elon Muskpolitically or not, it doesn't
matter, read that book becauseyou can see how much this guy
cares and how much he's lookingto disrupt processes.
(22:28):
So, for example, if a processtakes 10 steps, he's going to
want to see how it can be donein three steps, and this guy
will sleep on the factory floor,if he has to, to focus on each
detail in the process to makesure he can help his team.
So it was very, veryinteresting.
It's, to me, a must read.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
I hadn't heard that one, so I will definitely put
that on one of the list ofthings I need to go do.
If you had to start over today,when would you go back in time?
At what point in your life?
And?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
what would you do differently?
So if I had to go back in time,I'd probably go back to 2020 or
so, right around when thepandemic was starting and we saw
a huge uptick in businessbecause we were one of the first
companies to have a cryptoplatform for retirement accounts
, and I would have brought inway more talented people.
The biggest mistake I made inmy business as a first-time CEO
(23:20):
I didn't understand theimportance of talent.
I just kind of thought that,hey, I kind of know this stuff,
so I'll just surround myselfwith people I like and people
that are smart and we'll figureit out together Right, and like
a basketball analogy, like I'llbe LeBron James, I'll get some
shooters around me, so if I'm introuble double team, I'll pitch
it off to them.
They'll hit the corner threeit's going to be great.
Didn't work out the way itshould have, because I need.
(23:42):
I should have had better talent, so pay for talent.
So pay for talent.
If you have excess profit, dumpit back in your business pay
for talent, talent, talent,talent.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
People matter, yep, and hold them accountable.
I think set it up in a way thatyou you take, you know, be
slower to hire, but really fastto get rid of people who are
clearly turds, or just interviewwell, get rid of them fast
because it's going to kill you,like now you have, like it's
like a basketball analogy.
It's like having somebody onthe other team that's shooting
(24:15):
the wrong basket.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
You're like dude yeah , that's a cancer and you know
it.
The problem is we all know it,right?
You, you know you.
I've hired thousands of peopleover the years.
Like you, can tell right awaywhen someone's good and then the
the people that aren't so good.
You just give them the benefitof the doubt because no one
likes to separate from anyone,but it's the best for both
parties.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
It is.
If there's one question Ishould ask today and I didn't,
what should have I asked you andhow would you?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
answer it, I guess if your listeners were interested
just the tax benefits, like whysomeone should use a retirement
account to invest.
And I would say there's twomain reasons right.
Number one if you use a pre-taxretirement account, you get a
tax deduction, which is great.
And then the second benefit isyour money grows tax-free in a
(25:00):
retirement account, so somethingcalled compounded returns, with
Albert Einstein coined.
The eighth wonder of the worldthat's how smart people get rich
is your money grows faster whenit's not subject to taxation
Rule 72, if you assume a 9% rateof return, every eight years
your money doubles.
So people need to understand thepower of compounded returns and
(25:20):
the power of the US retirementsystem.
And the last thing I'll sayit's literally rigged in our
favor.
It's the only area where youhave bipartisan support between
Democrats and Republicans.
Why?
Because it works.
So if you're going to save, ifyou take anything away from this
, open an IRA, save.
If you have access to a 401kand you're getting a match from
your employer, put as much in asyou can.
It is the best and smartest wayto save.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah, I mean, it's like the entry point for sure,
and I love what Elon Musk didsay.
He's like hey, listen, taxesare just social engineering at
scale.
They are there only to serveyou to do something or not do
something.
So we want you to buy homes, wegive you tax deduction, we want
people to get tied into workingcorporate and do this while you
(26:03):
have this, and this is one ofthose functions that serves very
wealthy people as well, and sothat's why it exists.
That's why everyone agrees like, oh, that helps us, and so, as
long as it makes money foreveryone, it will exist, and
it's going to for some time.
So, if anything, it willimprove because more wealth will
come and people will be like,hey, you need to engineer 2%
more out of this.
They'll find a way.
And that's really the socialengineering that makes all this
(26:33):
stuff work, is it benefits?
Speaker 2 (26:34):
every wealthy person who makes a decision Fair enough
, exactly, yeah, how do you getahold of you?
Shameless plug time for you.
Yeah, I know you can check outour YouTube channel at IRA
Financial or websiteIRAfinancialcom.
Tons of great content onvarious topics on retirement
accounts, self-directed IRAs,401ks, robs and how you can
potentially shelter your incomegains from the investment tax
rate.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
You know I never asked this question.
I think it might be a fun oneto ask you.
What would you title thisYouTube channel?
Our YouTube episode.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Oh, great, great question, because we talked
about entrepreneurship and alsoretirement accounts.
So I don't know.
I think you can go both ways.
I'm not that creative, I'm justa lawyer.
I'm never creative enough.
That's what I got out of lawschool.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
I can't answer that legally.
No, I would tell you answers.
Ask AI.
So that's what we're going todo.
Yeah, okay, that's true, adam.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
You rock, oh sure, thank you somuch.
Yeah, listen, adam.
I mean listen.
You maybe just listened to himfor the first time.
He's a big deal.
You need to check out what hedoes.
He's one of the OGs in the gamein this, so go check out his
(27:40):
YouTube.
It'll be in the show notes.
Get out there.
Go cut a tie to somethingholding you back.
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