September 4, 2025 • 37 mins
Cut The Tie Podcast with Devon Gummersall
What happens when early success makes you think the road will always be easy—until it isn’t? In this episode of Cut The Tie, Thomas Helfrich sits down with Devon Gummersall, former teen star of My So-Called Life turned director and founder of Authentic Content Productions. Devon shares the highs and lows of Hollywood, the painful lessons of waiting for permission, and why building financial stability outside the industry gave him the creative control he always wanted.
About Devon Gummersall
Devon Gummersall launched his career as an actor at 14, starring in the iconic series My So-Called Life. After two decades of acting in television and film, he pivoted to directing and writing, leading feature films, television episodes, and eventually branded content. Today, through his company Authentic Content Productions, he helps brands—from startups to Microsoft—tell cinematic, authentic stories. His journey highlights the same truth entrepreneurs face: reinvention and ownership are the only way to thrive.
In this episode, Thomas and Devon discuss:
- The addiction of freelance highs and lows
Acting feels like winning the lottery when you book a job—and devastation when you don’t. - Pivoting to directing and ownership
How buying one camera and betting on himself launched a thriving content business. - The danger of trying to “do it all”
Why clarity of brand beats scattershot attempts in both Hollywood and entrepreneurship. - Financial freedom fuels creativity
Stability from branded work allows Devon to take risks and enjoy auditions again. - Hard-earned Hollywood lessons
Why reinvention, focus, and saying no to bad fits apply equally to business owners.
Key Takeaways:
- Reinvention is survival. Don’t wait—pivot before you get stuck.
- Clarity wins. Diluting your brand makes you forgettable.
- Stability creates freedom. Financial security lets you take creative risks.
- Own your lane. In acting or business, trying to do everything means doing nothing well.
Connect with Devon Gummersall:
🌐 Website: https://authenticcontentprods.com
📸 Instagram (Devon): https://www.instagram.com/devon_gummersall/
📸 Instagram (Company): https://www.instagram.com/authentic_content_prods/
Connect with Thomas Helfrich:
🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/thelfrich
📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/cutthetiegroup
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomashelfrich/
🌐 Website: https://www.cutthetie.com
✉️ Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
🚀 InstantlyRelevant: https://instantlyrelevant.com
Serious about LinkedIn Lead Generation? Stop Guessing what to do on LinkedIn and ignite revenue from relevance with Instantly Relevant Lead System
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Cut the Tie podcast.
Hello, I'm your host, thomasHelfrich.
I'm on a mission to help youcut the tie to whatever is
holding you back from owningyour success and achieving it.
Now you got to define your ownsuccess or you're chasing
somebody else's dream, andthat's just no bueno.
Today, I'm joined by theamazing Mr Devin Gumbersall.
Devin, how are you?
I'm great Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We're going to dive into your journey a bit Uh, but
for the, for the people whodon't know who you are,
introduce yourself and what itis you're what you're currently
doing.
Well, I started my career as anactor and I was on a show that
was a short lived but had a bigimpact and still is kind of a a
cult show that has a lot ofloyal fans.
I called my so-called life.
Um, that was when I was 14years old, through 16 years old,
and then I had a good run oflots of other TV shows and stuff
(00:49):
throughout my 20s and 30s.
But I pivoted to directing andwriting pretty early on and
directed my first feature when Iwas 30, directed my second
feature when I was about 35.
And then, shortly after that,started directing TV and then
also pivoted to directingcommercials and branded content.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
You were.
You're born in Hollywood,you're a child of Hollywood,
fair enough.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, I mean, I only moved to LA when I was 10, so
not a hundred percent, but yeah,pretty much.
Let's be honest, I lived in LAfor 30 years.
I grew up there.
100%, but yeah, pretty much,let's be honest, I lived in LA
for 30 years.
I grew up there.
I had lived in NorthernCalifornia before that.
But yeah, I was raised inStudio City, los Angeles.
(01:38):
My father was a painter.
He still is.
He's 79 now still painting, buthe's had a pretty good run as
an abstract painter.
So it was sort of expected forme to do something artistic,
which is the opposite of mostfamilies.
But I did kind of follow in hisfootsteps.
But I was living in LA and Ijust happened to kind of be
around all that world and I lovemovies and I got into an acting
class when I was about 12 andfound that I really loved it.
And the guy who ran the classwas also a manager and he said I
(02:03):
think you have talent.
I'd like to start sending youout on auditions.
He's like we're off to see ifit's okay with your parents.
Obviously I was like, oh, let'sdo this.
I mean I'm bored, school'sboring, let's go, you know.
And then, like two years laterI got this huge part on this
show, my so-called life thatended up having a really big
impact.
So it just kind of happened.
(02:23):
But definitely it's one of thosethings where, when you have
that kind of early success, itcan be very jarring when you
find that you hit a brick wallat some point, which you're
going to, and I think that's uh,that's probably the biggest
thing that I've had to overcomewas just the, the feeling of
(02:43):
like, oh my God, my life is, mylife is blessed.
Like I'm just so lucky, likeeverything's going to fall into
place for me.
You know, I haven't had to havea real job.
I was 16 and I'm making allthis money and people are
recognizing me on the street andI'm hanging out with Jared Leto
.
He's teaching me how to pick upgirls.
You know, I mean my life'sgoing to be perfect forever.
(03:13):
Um, then, soon after that, youhave a moment where you go oh,
I'm actually in this really hardbusiness and nobody really
cares about me.
There's nobody really there tobe.
Like, hey, oh, we love you,come do this job.
You just run into down timesand it can be pretty, pretty
brutal, and then I think really,ultimately what people most
successful people in the TVbusiness or the entertainment
business I would say some hugepercentage of them have pivoted
(03:37):
from their original job or thething that they came to try to
do in Hollywood.
You know, so many people cameto be actors and they and they
ended up being other things.
Or so many people came to bewriters and they ended up being
other things.
Or so many people came to bewriters and they ended up being
other things.
I think it's a business whereyou have to reinvent yourself
and you can't get stuck.
And I was stuck for many yearsand I was kind of like wait, it
was so easy what happened.
So it was jarring and I had toreboot many times.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Do you think in your industry too, where you have
that early success or anysuccess, you think you got to
figure it out, is that the mostvulnerable time?
Or like, no, you got to keep.
Like you know, take some ninjaclasses, you got to keep working
on characters, or some kind oflike?
Is that?
Is that when the time you can'tlet up and think you got it and
you're like, no, you need to goall in now, you really need to
push harder, you need to golearn more things?
Is that?
(04:22):
Is that one of the breakingpoints that people miss, or
what's your kind of take on that?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
yeah, I would say so.
I mean, I think, certainly foran actor or really any creative
in the entertainment business.
You know it's a freelance job,so when you're not working
you're absolutely stressed andmiserable and terrified, and
when you are working it'sbeautiful, like it's.
The Acting is the best job inthe world.
(04:48):
It's very well paid, the hoursare manageable.
Sometimes it's a bit crazydepending on how big your role
is and that can be exhausting,but overall it's a great gig.
I mean, you pretty much justshow up, you're in your, you
know, learn your lines, show upand do your thing and then you
(05:08):
go home and you sleep great, asopposed to when you're directing
or writing.
You never sleep.
You know you're, you'reconstantly under pressure and
that's you know.
To me that's part of the fun ofit.
But anyway, the point is, whenyou're working, all these jobs
in the TV business are the bestjobs.
It's amazing and the paychecksare great.
And it's amazing working withthis sort of big amount of
(05:30):
people that are all reallytalented and all, a lot of times
, very passionate about whatyou're doing.
It's great camaraderie, it'sall great.
But when you're not working it'sdeath.
I mean you don't know whereyour next paycheck is coming
from.
You start to question, mean youdon't know where your next
paycheck is coming from.
You start to questioneverything you know.
And I think it's essentiallylike people in normal businesses
probably go through that, thatfeeling and that period in
(05:54):
between jobs.
Maybe they go through that fivetimes in their life or
something.
But as a TV professional you gothrough that 20 times a year.
You know that feeling of likemy god, I'm screwed, like
where's the next paycheck?
So I think it's really highsand lows and ultimately it is
kind of an addiction.
I mean you're basicallygambling, um, and when you win
(06:16):
it's massive, but when you don'twin it's terrifying and you
start to feel very alone and youstart to feel very like
superstitious, almost.
You question everything.
You're like was I just luckythat one time?
Is it over?
Should I pivot?
Should I get out of thebusiness completely?
And a lot of people have, youknow, and people that I know
well have left the business intheir twenties and they said I'm
(06:38):
out and they started successfulbusinesses in other fields and
are doing great.
And sometimes I go, oh man, Ishould have, I should have
pivoted a lot earlier, you know.
But the thing is insurance,damn it.
Yeah, I could be sellinginsurance and and and have like
a.
I could have a new, exactly, Icould have three mortgages.
No, but it is kind of it'sdaunting, I think.
(07:00):
I think anyone in the tvbusiness would who's being
honest with you would admit thatthere's a lot of superstition
and a lot of question marks andyou do kind of have to be
delusional to some degree, youknow, because you really have to
believe in yourself and yourvalue, regardless of what the
marketplace is telling you,because a lot of the times the
marketplace is telling you thatyou suck, you know.
(07:20):
And then a few times themarketplace is telling you that
you're the greatest thing ever,but most of the time it's that
it's that you suck.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
That's how it feels most of the time.
You know a friend of mine,other friends who are in this.
They're like you know, they getdown to one or two people you
know for like a netflix role orsome series and they're like oh,
it's always it's the sameanswer, because, but it is the,
the director loved me, theproducer loved me, but the
executive producer wantedsomebody else.
Yeah, I was.
(07:50):
That's a standard answer foryou didn't make it.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, I was convinced and I still am, by the way that
Steven Spielberg personallydislikes me because I was up for
so many roles in his movies andprojects where I was so close.
You know, I had this one time Iwas reading I had a call back.
I'm like, okay, I'm gettingclose on this one and it was for
that show, band of brothers,the hbo miniseries.
(08:14):
And I walk in and what's that?
I'm living right.
I walk in and tom hanks is inthe room and he's this is when
tom Hanks is the biggest star inthe world.
I mean, he just did SavingPrivate Ryan and all you know he
was massive.
So he's in the room.
He's like hey, devin, oh man,thanks for coming back.
You're such a great actor.
(08:34):
We love you.
We're so excited to work withyou.
We're going to find somethingfor you in this project.
We just don't know which role.
So, hey, just sit with me.
I'm going to read the otherlines and we're just going to
read through like 10 charactersand just let's just go for it.
So it's all cold readings, youknow.
But I he says that to me.
So I'm like, oh, I'm good, I'min.
Tom Hanks just told me I'm agreat actor.
I'm going to have a part inthis.
(08:55):
It's going to be a 10 month job, that's it.
My career is set.
Like I'm back, you know.
And then I sat there and read 10roles with him, cold readings,
and it was amazing to be justacting with Tom Hanks on the
other side and he's an amazingactor and just a sweet guy.
And then I left and I was like,well, I can't wait for this one
to come in.
(09:15):
You know, it's just a matter oftime.
They're going to pick me forsome of those roles.
And then nothing happened.
I never got a role and I waslike it's Spielberg, he hates me
, you know.
He watched the tape and he'slike this guy sucks.
He just doesn't like my face,you know.
And all these like you knowactors that I knew that frankly,
some of them I thought were notgreat actors.
Like they all got roles.
Like everybody I know got arole in that that thing, you
(09:37):
know.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Anyway.
So those things happen.
Like he's too good, don't puthim in there.
He's going to overshadow me andit's very possible, but let's
blame Tom Hanks.
When I do a movie trailer foryou on my Sexy Voice Guy channel
, we're going to discuss thisthat there's a conspiracy
between Tom Hanks and StevenSpielberg of the.
Ai Sounds right, we're in his20s.
Okay, now, anyway, give it out.
(09:59):
And this is where you and Iconnected was with directing
corporate stuff to just otherthings.
That's a hard decision.
It's because I cause youalready got a foot in the door,
but you made a decision to gosteady income some way out in
them.
I'm summarizing, but talk to meabout that, because if we think
about metaphoric ties, so tospeak, I mean, keep in mind, by
the way, anybody who cries onthe show gets more airtime as an
(10:19):
actor.
I expect that out anyway.
Cut a tie to how you becameinto the directing world and
that in in specifically themoment you're like you know, f
it I'm.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
That's what I'm doing yeah, I would say that, as I
described, there's just so much,there's so much luck and
there's so much stuff that's outof your control when you're an
actor.
You're just waiting for jobs.
And I said you know what I Isick of this.
I need to be the person whocreates the jobs and I want to
(10:56):
have control over the finalproduct too.
That's the other thing, becausewhen you're an actor, you can
do a project that has a greatscript and it can turn out lame
and not not good, and you haveno control over that, you know.
So I said, okay, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna take the reins, so tospeak, of my, my life and my
career.
And you know, I can still actand I can still do that, but I'm
not going to let that be my, mymain source of income anymore,
(11:20):
because it's just too stressful.
Um, and I basically pivoted todirecting.
Uh, and, honestly, the momentwhere I really, I think, where
it really became the most realfor me and where it really
became a business that I wasgoing to run, was when I made
some videos for my friend, thisguy, brian Vander Ark, who's the
lead singer and kind of mainguy in this band, the Verve Pipe
(11:43):
and him and I had workedtogether various times.
He had he had composed somemusic for me for my short, for
short film and we had made adocumentary together and where I
followed him around when he wason this backyards tour where he
was just playing in people'shouses and living rooms, and
that was his way of takingcontrol of his financial freedom
and his career, his creativeendeavors, anyway.
So I said to Brian, I said youknow, man, I really need to get
(12:06):
some equipment.
You know I need a better camera.
You know I really want to likestart a business where I can
really make my own content.
You know I by that point Ialready had learned how to edit.
I'd sort of taught myself howto edit just from making this
documentary and from fromwatching people who were good at
it and shadowing them.
Um, I said I know how to edit,I know how to shoot, I just need
a good camera, I need some goodequipment.
(12:26):
And he said, well, listen, Ican't really pay you a lot.
But he's like, why don't youcome out to Michigan, come shoot
some stuff of me and the bandin the studio and I'll pay you
enough so that you can buy thiscamera you want, and that was it
.
And I really I hold him in highesteem because I felt like he
really believed in me as adirector and also that he saw
(12:47):
that I wanted to start this as areal business and I wanted to
kind of free myself from thisfreelance hell.
And that was really thebeginning and that was it.
And I went out there, I shotsome really cool stuff with him
with this new camera, and then Ihad that camera and then I
could make higher quality stuff,you know.
And then that led to me making avideo for my friend.
My friend's wife was launchingher brand.
It's called by Rosie Jane andit was a uh, it's a makeup brand
(13:10):
and a perfume brand and she waslaunching her company with
sephora, which is for a brand ismassive.
I mean, it's like getting yourstuff into costco, right.
So I said, hey, I'm gonna.
She said, can you help me makea video to launch the brand and
that tells the story of thebrand.
And I made that video and itturned out so great.
We had no budget.
I mean I think she paid me$2,000 or something and that was
(13:33):
just to kind of cover like justthe filming and the tiny food.
Basically Right, yeah, uh.
But it came out so good thatSephora ended up asking her if
they could use that video as thetemplate for all onboarding of
new brands for a year globally.
Um, and she would go to thingswhere they showed the video and
(13:54):
people would come up to her likewith tears in their eyes saying
, oh, my God, your video is sobeautiful, it tells the story,
you and your family and yourbrand and all this stuff, and
how did you do that, you know?
So that kind of gave me theconfidence, but never, none of
it would have happened if Ididn't have that camera.
And so it there was.
That was kind of a pivotalmoment and since then I haven't
stopped.
I make branded content for lotsof different brands.
(14:15):
I've worked with big brandslike Microsoft and Stella Artois
and tons of different bigbrands, but I also do stuff with
smaller brands, like some stuffthat you and I did together, so
I can scale up or downdepending on the situation, and
that's been really the ultimatecut the tie moment for me.
It was just like, hey, I'mgoing to own my own equipment,
(14:36):
I'm going to have everything Ineed to be able to make content
for people, because I know Ihave the talent, I know I have
the feel for it and I know thatI'm good at working with people,
especially helping people feelcomfortable on camera that have
never been on camera before,those kinds of things.
So that was the moment where Isaid, okay, I'm doing this for
(14:58):
real.
And the great thing is, now Ihave some clients, I have
financial stability.
Um, and now when I do actingroles or when I get
opportunities to direct stuff,it's more of a passion project,
it's even more fun because Idon't have, I don't have to do
it.
I'm not waiting for the velvetrope of Hollywood you know these
, these gatekeepers to let me in.
I'm, I'm doing my own thing andbasically I just needed to set
(15:19):
up my life so that I was goingto be happy and thriving,
regardless of the TV businessand the entertainment business.
And I think, really, if I wasgoing to give anyone advice
that's kind of trying to getinto that business or has a
foothold in that business, sodon't do it.
No, no, I think.
No, I think, run the other way.
No, I would say, like, figureout a way to get financial
(15:43):
freedom and financial stabilitywith something that's adjacent
to it, something that's not soulcrushing, something that you
still enjoy and that ishopefully somehow kind of still
inspiring to you.
But do not put your, your lifeand your financial stability in
the hands of this business,because it will destroy you
unless you're in the 0.0001% andget so lucky.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
You're not going to be, you're not, you'd already
know you're in that 0.0001% oryou have such talent that you
won't need it.
You could probably write on andmake.
Anyway.
There's a, and you and I'vetalked before like this and like
I do some voiceover work, justas it comes from clients and and
your own advice was just, ifyou get an agent, great like and
it did.
It happened through a friend ofmine who is then and he's like
(16:27):
he got me into a decent agent inatlanta and the best part is
I'm not worried if I ever do ajob.
If I get one, that's fun andit's like that makes your
auditions easier, Cause I'm justlike oh, I'm just doing it how
I want to do it.
Now, I, you know, and and ifthey they pick you, it's great
and you win stuff here or thereor whatever.
But I agree that it would be sostressful if I was like this is
what I've made $600 this year.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, I mean, you know people, people wonder why
there's so many Nepo babies inHollywood, and I think the real
reason is that they havefinancial stability and they,
they, they have a, they have acushion, they have a safety net.
You know, I mean, yeah, Also,they, they've grown up on sets
and they know people and andHollywood is oddly attracted to
(17:12):
anyone who has a last name ofsomeone they recognize.
But it's not just that, I mean,I think honestly it's like hey,
if you want to be in theentertainment business, either
have a trust fund that's verysignificant or figure out a way
to have financial stability andthen do it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I wish you didn't mention talent.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Oh no, talent doesn't matter.
You know, I wish you didn'tmention a talent.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Oh no, talent doesn't matter, I would, but I, you
know, friends of mine have movedout there and they're talking
about all things they're doing.
I'm like are you networkingwith anyone?
Because I feel like that'sprobably what matters most is
who you know, less so of howgood you are I mean yeah,
networking cream that we cancall milk networking.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Of course that's a big part of it and that's not
something I really ever excelledat or enjoyed, and I do have
some friends who just are greatat it and they love it and they
that's a huge part of theirsuccess and god bless them, uh.
But yeah, I mean, look, thereality is there's a lot of
talented actors and there's alot of talented directors and
writers.
So, yeah, there is an elementof networking.
(18:13):
But I think it's also reallyunderstanding your brand and
kind of you know, understandingwhat rock you stand on in the
sense of like, what makes youdifferent, what makes you
interesting, you know, and as awriter or director or as an
actor and I think I made themistake in my career a lot of
times of trying to prove that Icould do everything.
(18:34):
You know, oh, I can do comedyand I can do drama and I can be
the bad guy and I can be thegood guy, and it's like you know
what that's worked for likefive people in the entertainment
business and the history of,okay, like Tom Hanks is a good
example, somebody who doescomedy and drama really well.
Name me like five more.
You can't, you know.
I mean there's not a lot ofpeople.
So most people sort of they say,oh, this is something that
(18:57):
people want to pay me tocontinue doing.
I'm going to stick with that.
You know, and like you know, inmy case, I was my.
I was known for this kind ofnerdy, sweet character that
people really related to andloved, and of course, I wanted
to go and do the opposite ofthat.
I wanted to play like bad guysand I wanted to play brooding
guys and I wanted to really flexmy, my acting muscles and that
(19:18):
was the absolute worst thing Icould have done.
Like the casting directors andproducers and stuff.
They want to know you, theywant to think of you for roles,
right, and you want them tothink of you for roles.
So if they're confused, they'reconfused.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
they're like wait, is devin the bad guy or he's, he's
either good guys on a season306 of gray's anatomy oh yeah,
oh yeah, I'm still waiting forthat one.
You're like I'll take ithonestly, that'd be great to be
part of a part of that series.
Um, you, you, I'm going to callit.
Parallel out, though, what youjust described isn't actually a
core business.
Problem of any small businessis that people, when they have
have a let's call itsolopreneurs or even smaller
businesses, they don't solve acritical problem.
Typically, they solve, they tryto solve lots of things that
need revenue, and by doing thatyou get no revenue.
(20:01):
And you're right If you say Ialways give the example of Vince
Vaughn and acting.
He's not acting, that's justVince Vaughn.
I'm pretty sure that's just howhe is, and he's just charged up
on camera.
And, if I'm wrong, you probablymet the guy.
I don't know, but my pointwould be only that every role he
has the same kind of thing, andgood for him.
Will Ferrell, dumb character,funny, he's actually pretty
talented.
But why?
(20:21):
Why mess that up?
Cause that's what they, that'swhat people expect to see, the
and it's easy.
And do you struggle with that?
Though, on the director sidewhere, like let's say, you do
corporate shoots or you do thesekinds of cinematic things,
you're like I really want to godo this Do you find that same
(20:41):
problem going on with your, whatyou're doing in directing.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Well, I think, in when I initially started out, I
still kind of had some issueswith that, but that's been.
What's so great about being anentrepreneur and having my own
business is that there's no roomfor that bullshit.
You know, you basically got toknow what you do best and you
got to be able to explain thatand you got to have some stuff
to back that up and that'sultimately.
It's ironic, because that'skind of what made me a better
businessman is that I learnedthat the hard way, from doing it
wrong with on the creative side.
(21:06):
You know, my first feature thatI directed was a dramedy.
You know it was sort of halfcomedy, half drama.
And then I said, well, thatdidn't do that.
Well, I was happy with itcreatively, but it didn't do
that well in the marketplace.
So I said, okay, the next timeI'm going to make a
psychological thriller because Iknow that's a, a safe genre and
that was more successful.
Um, you know and, but likethere's no, there's no through
(21:36):
line there, right, like it'slike I directed two totally
different genres.
So I still, as a as a creative,I do sometimes still struggle
with that.
But when it comes to thecorporate work and the the
business that I have now in mywork in advertising and branded
content, it's different.
I mean, I'm like, hey, I'm theguy who, who gets you, you know,
authentic things.
I'm really good with helpingpeople tell the story of their
brand.
That's it, that's my thing.
You know what I mean and I andI focus on that and I and that's
what I sell, you know.
Of course, I do other things,but the point is I think when it
(21:59):
, when it comes to the corporateworld, I've finally been able
to really embrace the idea thatyou have to have a brand and you
have to have something thatyou're good at and you have to
be able to explain that topeople and really lean into it,
and I've been doing that.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Exactly and so, like you know, you Microsoft or
automation anywhere and someother pieces that you do, it's
like the, the corporate tech.
We can make it look cinematic,like you bring that fill.
That is a very niche good brand, cause there's always new tech
companies and they have pocketsand they have money and they
have more budgets and it's likecool, cool that pays for travel
houses.
And then the other creativeside is it's inconsequential how
(22:34):
it does and if you caught aflyer on something huge role,
that doesn't change.
You still gonna have thatcompany.
It's just gonna make that evenbigger and more expensive for
people to work with you.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
So yeah, no, it's true exactly no, there's no
pressure.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
You get the flyer.
You don't like you it's and Ilove that, and that's you learn
the lesson right of it.
I often ask this question justjust conscious of time on this,
but I want to know if you couldgo back to any moment in your
timeline.
When would you go back?
What would you do differently?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I go back and tell Tom Hanks that he's a dick.
No, I'm just kidding.
No, I made it.
Keep it in, no.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I think he's a dick.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
He's like the nicest guy ever.
That's so funny.
No, you know what it is.
I would go back to when I wasin my late teens and I had this
idea that I wanted to.
I didn't want to play highschool parts anymore.
I was like I've done it.
I was on this iconic highschool show.
I'm over it.
You know I'm older now.
(23:33):
I'm not doing that.
You know, I was like 19.
I'm like I'm way too old toplay high school.
Like one year, you know, uh,and really what.
What that meant was like ittook me out of some other
opportunities, but more so, moreso I was.
I was also saying, oh, I don'twant to play nerdy characters
anymore.
It's like, hey, man, dance withthe girl you brought.
You know, like people like youplaying that, you know, and not
(23:56):
really.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Vaughn right, unless you're Urkel, I don't know what
happened to him.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
No, exactly.
Look, when you think about Imean, vince Vaughn is a great
example, and that absolutely isI mean I don't about it.
So does Brad Pitt, and so doesTom Cruise, and so does pretty
much everybody.
I mean, there's not, there'sonly a maybe a handful of actors
(24:19):
that are kind of chameleons,like Daniel Day-Lewis or guys
like that, but it's very rare.
I mean, look at Ryan Reynolds,he's Ryan Reynolds, that's what
he does and he and he does itbeautifully, and you know it's.
It's like there are very fewpeople who stray from displaying
themselves or having their ownbrand and same with directors I
mean, look at, like Wes Anderson, you know, when you're watching
a Wes Anderson movie, becauseit looks like a Wes Anderson
(24:40):
movie.
And even Spielberg, I mean hestill is very prolific and has
done different genres, but hismovies are always heartfelt,
they're always kind of bigconcepts.
You know what I mean.
Or even Ron Howard, you alwayskind of big concepts, you know
what I mean.
Or even Ron Howard, like youget here at the movie.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
You know it's Steven Spielberg, so that's an
indicator, that's correct.
That's correct, it's not StevenSpielberg.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
I have a lot of Steven Spielberg trauma.
Apparently, I'm glad I got towork through some of it today.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
We're going to.
We're going to include somethings with that.
We won't say the word grooming,but we'll imply it and then
we'll.
I'm horrible.
I'm a horrible person deep downand it's okay for me to be like
that.
Evan, if there was a question Ishould have asked you today,
and I didn't.
What would that question havebeen?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Hmm, I guess what's the what's the most challenging
thing about acting?
Maybe even though I'm moreknown as a director now, I
suppose.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
but I started waiting for it, but let's, let's catch
it up.
You just you hit a pretty goodone recently.
I'm waiting for you to teasethat out here.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Talking about him, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, so I, I
got this role on the pit, whichis, I think, honestly one of the
best shows on tv now.
It's so brilliant, the way it'swritten, the directing, the
acting noah wiley's amazing.
It got nominated for a bunch ofemmys for for good reason.
Um, but yeah, I did twoepisodes on that show and it was
it was towards the end of theseason, which was great.
(26:10):
Um, just because you know, it'salways fun to be part of the
season finale.
And I got to work with johnwells, with him directing, and
he's a legend.
I mean, he's made shows, uh,the West wing and ER and
shameless, which was one of myfavorite shows.
Um, you know, he's uh, justdone amazing stuff in the
business and he's great guy.
But anyway, yeah, it was a.
That was a big break.
And you know, I was in Madrid.
(26:30):
Man, I made that self tape inMadrid and I was like on my
phone.
I had a good microphone with meto use with the phone but but
yeah, that's the great partabout acting now.
It's like, hey, I'm living mylife, I'm in Madrid having a
good time doing my thing and Idon't have to get this job.
It's not life or death at allanymore, but it was.
It was a great experience andreally fun to be part of.
Huh, the character were you anerdy guy.
(26:55):
Um no, but I was definitely likesomeone you root for.
You know, I think that's the,that's the main thing that I've
settled on now.
It's like, hey, I don't want toplay bad guys, I want to play
people that you're rooting for,that are kind of smart people
that are in difficult situationsmaybe, or maybe they may make
some bad choices, but overall,good guys are the way to go.
But yeah, that was a coolexperience and but it's an
(27:15):
example of like what I'm talkingabout, that if I didn't have my
business and if I didn't haveall this other work that I do in
the corporate world, you know Inever would have gotten that
part, because I just would.
It would have felt too preciousto me.
I would have.
I probably would have been justsort of trying too hard or or
just I don't know it would.
It would have, it would havehad a different vibe, and I
think that makes a bigdifference.
You never, you just can't.
(27:35):
You can't win the lottery whenyou're when you're when you're
poor.
You know you got to have alittle bit in the bank.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I want to hear what the latest harsh thing about
acting is.
But I will say this would youhave gone back to the audition
of Tom Hanks and maybe as a 40year old guy now to be like hey,
which role do you see me in?
And let's work on that one,let's go nail the one that you
look at me and go.
He is that, do you?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
if you have the balls to go, do that in that role, or
do you have to go do all 10 andjust go with it?
No, I think that's absolutelyright.
I think I would have got if, ifI had my perspective now, I
would have said hey, you knowwhat?
There's these three roles thatI really like.
Can I focus on those Right Like?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
this is me.
Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah.
Same in the 20s.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
this is me, right here, one of these three, yeah I
think I would have said that,or I would have said, hey, you
know, because he was having mecold read.
So, yeah, I had any.
I remember.
Hey, I think he said do youwant to like take a minute to go
outside and look at some ofthese?
And you're kind of stuck in thewind.
Dude, go outside, maybe I don'tknow.
No, no, he's, this is before Istarted.
But yeah, he gave me theopportunity.
I said, no, no, let's just gofor it, you know.
But but, but now I?
But now I would have thought,okay, let me go outside, let me
(28:38):
remind myself all thesedifferent roles and let me pick
a few that I think I'm mostright for and let me go back and
focus on those.
I think that's the yeah.
I didn't have the mentalconfidence, I guess, to say that
at the time or to really beaware of my own brand.
I was a little bit kind of justletting.
(28:59):
I didn't have my hand on therudder very much.
I was just kind of going withthe flow, which is not good
enough.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Would that be like in the acting world?
One of the things that we don'trealize is that you, the
earlier you can control thatbrand, the better.
From from like hey.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I don't even want to read for that Cause.
My my business in that in thatfield by um auditioning for
comedies, and the cast editorswould always say the same thing
to my agents afterwards.
They say we love Devon, he's sogreat, but you know he just he
doesn't really feel broad enoughfor for this.
You know he's, he's, he's toosubtle, you know, and it's like
every time you do that you'rediluting the brand.
You know, because you got toonly audition for things that
you know you're going to crushit.
You know not stuff where you'relike, well, I'm kind of right
(29:45):
and maybe that, maybe I can belike the outlier choice, and
it's like no, no, no, do thestuff that you know you're
you're going to crush.
Yeah, yeah, I think that'sabsolutely right and that you
know it's like that business nowis knowing when to say no and
in what you described right.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
And it's like that business now is knowing when to
say no and in what you describedright.
And it's hard as a smallbusiness owner to say no to a
project.
You probably are in a half assand probably ruin your personal
brand Cause you're not going todo it very well.
And the example might be likehey, I'll do your email
marketing, I have a clue how togo do it, but you're like, I
figured it out.
I've sent an email.
The directors and castingdirectors are like who is Devin?
(30:17):
Like what does he want to play?
Cause we don't know how to putthem.
He's showing up with thesecomedy things he never makes it,
doesn't want to go do that.
So, whatever, let's move on.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
There's a million guys out here no-transcript
(30:49):
different company and she said,hey, we haven't had any video
content, but is there any chanceyou want to go to New York and
just do some stills photographyfor us?
And I said, well, I, Idefinitely love cameras.
My cameras are versatile, whereI can do stills or video.
And uh, I said, you know, letme uh send me an example of the
previous event that and so I canmake sure I have the right
(31:10):
equipment and I can do it.
And she sends to me.
I said, oh, yeah, I can totallydo that.
I said, okay, yeah, sure, butI'll come do it.
And then I'm like franticallycalling my buddy hey, man, uh,
you know he's a professionalstills photographer, which I am
not at this point, you know.
I go, hey, like I'm doing thisevent.
What do I need?
He's like, okay, well, you'regoing to need to buy a flash and
(31:31):
you're going to want to holdtwo cameras.
You know, get it, have onestrapped in your back with a
long lens, the other one withthe wide York, I went to B&H
Photo, which is my favoriteplace to buy equipment.
It's amazing, I went there,they're so good.
They're so knowledgeable.
They're so knowledgeable.
It's like the only place leftin the world where you can call
and get an actual human that canhelp you decide.
(31:51):
I'll do video.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
They'll actually put me in a store.
The guy will go out on thefloor and get something like hey
, this is what you want to doand this is where it fits.
I'm like, thanks, and they'renot sponsoring this.
Guys.
I'm telling you B&H Photo likeit's the same price as Amazon
for the stuff, but they'llactually help you, it's like you
know.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, they're so knowledgeable.
So I go in there I say, hey,okay, this is the lens which is
super expensive.
But I'm like, hey, this job'spaying for it, it's worth it,
I'm going to do it.
So I get this amazing lens andit helped me to go, obviously,
do that job and then that'lllead to more, more jobs for
(32:27):
stills and I actually enjoyed it.
I was like, hey, this is fun.
It's kind of like I like it asmuch as video really, and it's
less equipment.
So it's fun, it's easier.
Those jobs anyway.
But that lens, I just shot apassion project which was a
music video for my friend, brianvanderark, from the verve pipe
um, it's called tattoo.
It just came out and it cameout so beautiful.
But I used that lens a lot inthe filming of that video, which
(32:51):
really was a passion project,and I couldn't have had that
lens or afforded that lens if itwasn't for this corporate gig,
you know.
So it's just cool.
I think the way things tietogether, it's like, hey, the
more that I do in the corporatespace and the more free I am and
the more I can have this sortof stability, the more I'm able
to go do these passion projectsthat don't pay a lot but are
really, like, creativelysatisfying.
And one of the reasons I wantto be a director in the first
(33:13):
place is because I love musicvideos, growing up, you know,
and so that was a real thrill.
But I think it all tiestogether and it and it makes me
a better director.
So the next time I do get anopportunity to direct a TV show
or I'm kind of in the earlystages of trying to get ready to
do a third feature, you know,I've gotten so much better at
using the camera andunderstanding lighting and all
this stuff because I do a lot ofit myself for these corporate
(33:35):
jobs, cause I scale up and downas needed.
So yeah, it's been aninteresting journey, but so far
so good.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I'll just, from the business, overlay right In.
When you're auditioning out forcomedy things when you're
younger, you're saying I want togo do that.
So they get you in because youhad a name, you got a brand.
You get in didn't work, hurtyour brand a little.
The reverse what you justdescribed is someone asked you
to go do it and you're like,okay, I can do that.
Sure, like you know what I do,but I'll do it.
And if the same thing had done,someone had said, hey, I'd like
(34:05):
him to audition for this comedything, you're more likely to
get it because they asked you.
Now I'm not saying that didn'thappen for you or anything else,
but the with me to figure itout a little bit.
Yeah, I can get it done.
Do pretty well.
You should take that risk.
But if you're out thereactually marketing or trying to
do a brand that you are not,it's going to hurt.
(34:25):
It's going to hurt.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Exactly.
Yeah, I was really trying toforce the issue, I think, to
sort of prove myself, and I wastrying to be way too broad with
what I was good at.
But yeah, I agree, I think ifsomething comes to you and it's
a slight adjustment from whatyou is your normal brand, great,
go for it.
But that's totally differentthan than having this sort of
scattershot.
Like you know, method of like,I can do everything.
(34:47):
It's like that doesn't work inthe corporate world.
Why would that work in the, inthe entertainment business?
It doesn't.
I mean, it's just there's no,it makes no sense at all.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
All right, so listen, I usually to ask people to tell
you who should get ahold of youand who should do that, so you
can go to the corporate route of.
Hey, listen, you really feelsome awesome shit for you to do
it or go watch your show.
I mean, I'll leave it to you.
You're a shameless plug.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Uh, my shameless plug .
I would definitely like peopleto check out my website
authentic content productions.
Um, it's authentic content P?
R OR-O-D-S dot com.
That's where I have a lot of mywork that I'm most proud of
that I've done in the last fewyears within the corporate space
and in the tech space, and alsosome of the music videos and
some of the other stuff.
So, yeah, check it out.
(35:29):
I love working with new brandsand I love working with people
and kind of providing thatcinematic quality for branded
content.
That's really my main thing.
And uh, yeah, check it out.
And also on instagram, I havemy own instagram handle, which
is just at devin gummersall, andI also have at authentic
content prods.
So, yeah, check me out andfollow me and hopefully, come
(35:52):
bring some, bring something tothe table that I can help you
with.
You know, I love helping brandsto tell their story.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
That's right, just google his name.
A bunch of shit comes up.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
It's easy which we're going to do when we make his
movie trailer his fake one yeahyeah, yeah uh, I have a book in
mind too, if anybody's if,should I tell you the book thing
, because you always ask aboutthe book?
Right, I'm gonna be about so.
So, actually, when I wasworking on the pit this ties in,
but I but I was working on thepit, I was talking to Noah Wiley
.
He's a great guy, great actor,great writer, director.
(36:22):
He does a lot of stuff.
He's he's definitely astoryteller and we were talking
about directing and writing andhe suggested this book by George
Saunders and it's called.
Wait, hold on.
I got to look at my bookshelf.
Yeah, okay, just make sure Iget it right.
(36:45):
It's a book by George Saunderscalled A Swim in a Pond in the
Rain, and he's a professor forwriting and he's just a great
writer.
But it basically takes a lookat like some classic literature
and talks about how it succeedsand like why it works.
And I think it applies to anycreative endeavor, like whether
it's like why it works.
Um, and I think it applies toany, any creative endeavor, like
whether it's, you know any anyform of storytelling.
But I thought it was a reallyinspiring and interesting read
anybody who's at all interestedin literature or writing check
(37:08):
that out.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Appreciate it, devin.
Thanks for jumping on here withme.
I know I know you're busytraveling the world having fun
just drinking margaritaswherever you choose.
So, uh, or mojitos, you know it, it depends.
But whatever he's like, youknow shit, as always.
Thanks for having me and listenanybody who made it to the show
.
Thank you so much for listeningwatching.
If this is the first timeyou're here, I hope it is the
(37:29):
first of many.
Get out there, go cut a tie tosomething holding you back from
your success.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to the Cut the Tie podcast.
Hello, I'm your host, thomasHelfrich.
I'm on a mission to help youcut the tie to whatever is
holding you back from owningyour success and achieving it.
Now you got to define your ownsuccess or you're chasing
somebody else's dream, andthat's just no bueno.
Today, I'm joined by theamazing Mr Devin Gumbersall.
Devin, how are you?
I'm great Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We're going to dive into your journey a bit Uh, but
for the, for the people whodon't know who you are,
introduce yourself and what itis you're what you're currently
doing.
Well, I started my career as anactor and I was on a show that
was a short lived but had a bigimpact and still is kind of a a
cult show that has a lot ofloyal fans.
I called my so-called life.
Um, that was when I was 14years old, through 16 years old,
and then I had a good run oflots of other TV shows and stuff
(00:49):
throughout my 20s and 30s.
But I pivoted to directing andwriting pretty early on and
directed my first feature when Iwas 30, directed my second
feature when I was about 35.
And then, shortly after that,started directing TV and then
also pivoted to directingcommercials and branded content.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
You were.
You're born in Hollywood,you're a child of Hollywood,
fair enough.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Well, I mean, I only moved to LA when I was 10, so
not a hundred percent, but yeah,pretty much.
Let's be honest, I lived in LAfor 30 years.
I grew up there.
100%, but yeah, pretty much,let's be honest, I lived in LA
for 30 years.
I grew up there.
I had lived in NorthernCalifornia before that.
But yeah, I was raised inStudio City, los Angeles.
(01:38):
My father was a painter.
He still is.
He's 79 now still painting, buthe's had a pretty good run as
an abstract painter.
So it was sort of expected forme to do something artistic,
which is the opposite of mostfamilies.
But I did kind of follow in hisfootsteps.
But I was living in LA and Ijust happened to kind of be
around all that world and I lovemovies and I got into an acting
class when I was about 12 andfound that I really loved it.
And the guy who ran the classwas also a manager and he said I
(02:03):
think you have talent.
I'd like to start sending youout on auditions.
He's like we're off to see ifit's okay with your parents.
Obviously I was like, oh, let'sdo this.
I mean I'm bored, school'sboring, let's go, you know.
And then, like two years laterI got this huge part on this
show, my so-called life thatended up having a really big
impact.
So it just kind of happened.
(02:23):
But definitely it's one of thosethings where, when you have
that kind of early success, itcan be very jarring when you
find that you hit a brick wallat some point, which you're
going to, and I think that's uh,that's probably the biggest
thing that I've had to overcomewas just the, the feeling of
(02:43):
like, oh my God, my life is, mylife is blessed.
Like I'm just so lucky, likeeverything's going to fall into
place for me.
You know, I haven't had to havea real job.
I was 16 and I'm making allthis money and people are
recognizing me on the street andI'm hanging out with Jared Leto
.
He's teaching me how to pick upgirls.
You know, I mean my life'sgoing to be perfect forever.
(03:13):
Um, then, soon after that, youhave a moment where you go oh,
I'm actually in this really hardbusiness and nobody really
cares about me.
There's nobody really there tobe.
Like, hey, oh, we love you,come do this job.
You just run into down timesand it can be pretty, pretty
brutal, and then I think really,ultimately what people most
successful people in the TVbusiness or the entertainment
business I would say some hugepercentage of them have pivoted
(03:37):
from their original job or thething that they came to try to
do in Hollywood.
You know, so many people cameto be actors and they and they
ended up being other things.
Or so many people came to bewriters and they ended up being
other things.
Or so many people came to bewriters and they ended up being
other things.
I think it's a business whereyou have to reinvent yourself
and you can't get stuck.
And I was stuck for many yearsand I was kind of like wait, it
was so easy what happened.
So it was jarring and I had toreboot many times.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Do you think in your industry too, where you have
that early success or anysuccess, you think you got to
figure it out, is that the mostvulnerable time?
Or like, no, you got to keep.
Like you know, take some ninjaclasses, you got to keep working
on characters, or some kind oflike?
Is that?
Is that when the time you can'tlet up and think you got it and
you're like, no, you need to goall in now, you really need to
push harder, you need to golearn more things?
Is that?
(04:22):
Is that one of the breakingpoints that people miss, or
what's your kind of take on that?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
yeah, I would say so.
I mean, I think, certainly foran actor or really any creative
in the entertainment business.
You know it's a freelance job,so when you're not working
you're absolutely stressed andmiserable and terrified, and
when you are working it'sbeautiful, like it's.
The Acting is the best job inthe world.
(04:48):
It's very well paid, the hoursare manageable.
Sometimes it's a bit crazydepending on how big your role
is and that can be exhausting,but overall it's a great gig.
I mean, you pretty much justshow up, you're in your, you
know, learn your lines, show upand do your thing and then you
(05:08):
go home and you sleep great, asopposed to when you're directing
or writing.
You never sleep.
You know you're, you'reconstantly under pressure and
that's you know.
To me that's part of the fun ofit.
But anyway, the point is, whenyou're working, all these jobs
in the TV business are the bestjobs.
It's amazing and the paychecksare great.
And it's amazing working withthis sort of big amount of
(05:30):
people that are all reallytalented and all, a lot of times
, very passionate about whatyou're doing.
It's great camaraderie, it'sall great.
But when you're not working it'sdeath.
I mean you don't know whereyour next paycheck is coming
from.
You start to question, mean youdon't know where your next
paycheck is coming from.
You start to questioneverything you know.
And I think it's essentiallylike people in normal businesses
probably go through that, thatfeeling and that period in
(05:54):
between jobs.
Maybe they go through that fivetimes in their life or
something.
But as a TV professional you gothrough that 20 times a year.
You know that feeling of likemy god, I'm screwed, like
where's the next paycheck?
So I think it's really highsand lows and ultimately it is
kind of an addiction.
I mean you're basicallygambling, um, and when you win
(06:16):
it's massive, but when you don'twin it's terrifying and you
start to feel very alone and youstart to feel very like
superstitious, almost.
You question everything.
You're like was I just luckythat one time?
Is it over?
Should I pivot?
Should I get out of thebusiness completely?
And a lot of people have, youknow, and people that I know
well have left the business intheir twenties and they said I'm
(06:38):
out and they started successfulbusinesses in other fields and
are doing great.
And sometimes I go, oh man, Ishould have, I should have
pivoted a lot earlier, you know.
But the thing is insurance,damn it.
Yeah, I could be sellinginsurance and and and have like
a.
I could have a new, exactly, Icould have three mortgages.
No, but it is kind of it'sdaunting, I think.
(07:00):
I think anyone in the tvbusiness would who's being
honest with you would admit thatthere's a lot of superstition
and a lot of question marks andyou do kind of have to be
delusional to some degree, youknow, because you really have to
believe in yourself and yourvalue, regardless of what the
marketplace is telling you,because a lot of the times the
marketplace is telling you thatyou suck, you know.
(07:20):
And then a few times themarketplace is telling you that
you're the greatest thing ever,but most of the time it's that
it's that you suck.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
That's how it feels most of the time.
You know a friend of mine,other friends who are in this.
They're like you know, they getdown to one or two people you
know for like a netflix role orsome series and they're like oh,
it's always it's the sameanswer, because, but it is the,
the director loved me, theproducer loved me, but the
executive producer wantedsomebody else.
Yeah, I was.
(07:50):
That's a standard answer foryou didn't make it.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, I was convinced and I still am, by the way that
Steven Spielberg personallydislikes me because I was up for
so many roles in his movies andprojects where I was so close.
You know, I had this one time Iwas reading I had a call back.
I'm like, okay, I'm gettingclose on this one and it was for
that show, band of brothers,the hbo miniseries.
(08:14):
And I walk in and what's that?
I'm living right.
I walk in and tom hanks is inthe room and he's this is when
tom Hanks is the biggest star inthe world.
I mean, he just did SavingPrivate Ryan and all you know he
was massive.
So he's in the room.
He's like hey, devin, oh man,thanks for coming back.
You're such a great actor.
(08:34):
We love you.
We're so excited to work withyou.
We're going to find somethingfor you in this project.
We just don't know which role.
So, hey, just sit with me.
I'm going to read the otherlines and we're just going to
read through like 10 charactersand just let's just go for it.
So it's all cold readings, youknow.
But I he says that to me.
So I'm like, oh, I'm good, I'min.
Tom Hanks just told me I'm agreat actor.
I'm going to have a part inthis.
(08:55):
It's going to be a 10 month job, that's it.
My career is set.
Like I'm back, you know.
And then I sat there and read 10roles with him, cold readings,
and it was amazing to be justacting with Tom Hanks on the
other side and he's an amazingactor and just a sweet guy.
And then I left and I was like,well, I can't wait for this one
to come in.
(09:15):
You know, it's just a matter oftime.
They're going to pick me forsome of those roles.
And then nothing happened.
I never got a role and I waslike it's Spielberg, he hates me
, you know.
He watched the tape and he'slike this guy sucks.
He just doesn't like my face,you know.
And all these like you knowactors that I knew that frankly,
some of them I thought were notgreat actors.
Like they all got roles.
Like everybody I know got arole in that that thing, you
(09:37):
know.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Anyway.
So those things happen.
Like he's too good, don't puthim in there.
He's going to overshadow me andit's very possible, but let's
blame Tom Hanks.
When I do a movie trailer foryou on my Sexy Voice Guy channel
, we're going to discuss thisthat there's a conspiracy
between Tom Hanks and StevenSpielberg of the.
Ai Sounds right, we're in his20s.
Okay, now, anyway, give it out.
(09:59):
And this is where you and Iconnected was with directing
corporate stuff to just otherthings.
That's a hard decision.
It's because I cause youalready got a foot in the door,
but you made a decision to gosteady income some way out in
them.
I'm summarizing, but talk to meabout that, because if we think
about metaphoric ties, so tospeak, I mean, keep in mind, by
the way, anybody who cries onthe show gets more airtime as an
(10:19):
actor.
I expect that out anyway.
Cut a tie to how you becameinto the directing world and
that in in specifically themoment you're like you know, f
it I'm.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
That's what I'm doing yeah, I would say that, as I
described, there's just so much,there's so much luck and
there's so much stuff that's outof your control when you're an
actor.
You're just waiting for jobs.
And I said you know what I Isick of this.
I need to be the person whocreates the jobs and I want to
(10:56):
have control over the finalproduct too.
That's the other thing, becausewhen you're an actor, you can
do a project that has a greatscript and it can turn out lame
and not not good, and you haveno control over that, you know.
So I said, okay, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna take the reins, so tospeak, of my, my life and my
career.
And you know, I can still actand I can still do that, but I'm
not going to let that be my, mymain source of income anymore,
(11:20):
because it's just too stressful.
Um, and I basically pivoted todirecting.
Uh, and, honestly, the momentwhere I really, I think, where
it really became the most realfor me and where it really
became a business that I wasgoing to run, was when I made
some videos for my friend, thisguy, brian Vander Ark, who's the
lead singer and kind of mainguy in this band, the Verve Pipe
(11:43):
and him and I had workedtogether various times.
He had he had composed somemusic for me for my short, for
short film and we had made adocumentary together and where I
followed him around when he wason this backyards tour where he
was just playing in people'shouses and living rooms, and
that was his way of takingcontrol of his financial freedom
and his career, his creativeendeavors, anyway.
So I said to Brian, I said youknow, man, I really need to get
(12:06):
some equipment.
You know I need a better camera.
You know I really want to likestart a business where I can
really make my own content.
You know I by that point Ialready had learned how to edit.
I'd sort of taught myself howto edit just from making this
documentary and from fromwatching people who were good at
it and shadowing them.
Um, I said I know how to edit,I know how to shoot, I just need
a good camera, I need some goodequipment.
(12:26):
And he said, well, listen, Ican't really pay you a lot.
But he's like, why don't youcome out to Michigan, come shoot
some stuff of me and the bandin the studio and I'll pay you
enough so that you can buy thiscamera you want, and that was it
.
And I really I hold him in highesteem because I felt like he
really believed in me as adirector and also that he saw
(12:47):
that I wanted to start this as areal business and I wanted to
kind of free myself from thisfreelance hell.
And that was really thebeginning and that was it.
And I went out there, I shotsome really cool stuff with him
with this new camera, and then Ihad that camera and then I
could make higher quality stuff,you know.
And then that led to me making avideo for my friend.
My friend's wife was launchingher brand.
It's called by Rosie Jane andit was a uh, it's a makeup brand
(13:10):
and a perfume brand and she waslaunching her company with
sephora, which is for a brand ismassive.
I mean, it's like getting yourstuff into costco, right.
So I said, hey, I'm gonna.
She said, can you help me makea video to launch the brand and
that tells the story of thebrand.
And I made that video and itturned out so great.
We had no budget.
I mean I think she paid me$2,000 or something and that was
(13:33):
just to kind of cover like justthe filming and the tiny food.
Basically Right, yeah, uh.
But it came out so good thatSephora ended up asking her if
they could use that video as thetemplate for all onboarding of
new brands for a year globally.
Um, and she would go to thingswhere they showed the video and
(13:54):
people would come up to her likewith tears in their eyes saying
, oh, my God, your video is sobeautiful, it tells the story,
you and your family and yourbrand and all this stuff, and
how did you do that, you know?
So that kind of gave me theconfidence, but never, none of
it would have happened if Ididn't have that camera.
And so it there was.
That was kind of a pivotalmoment and since then I haven't
stopped.
I make branded content for lotsof different brands.
(14:15):
I've worked with big brandslike Microsoft and Stella Artois
and tons of different bigbrands, but I also do stuff with
smaller brands, like some stuffthat you and I did together, so
I can scale up or downdepending on the situation, and
that's been really the ultimatecut the tie moment for me.
It was just like, hey, I'mgoing to own my own equipment,
(14:36):
I'm going to have everything Ineed to be able to make content
for people, because I know Ihave the talent, I know I have
the feel for it and I know thatI'm good at working with people,
especially helping people feelcomfortable on camera that have
never been on camera before,those kinds of things.
So that was the moment where Isaid, okay, I'm doing this for
(14:58):
real.
And the great thing is, now Ihave some clients, I have
financial stability.
Um, and now when I do actingroles or when I get
opportunities to direct stuff,it's more of a passion project,
it's even more fun because Idon't have, I don't have to do
it.
I'm not waiting for the velvetrope of Hollywood you know these
, these gatekeepers to let me in.
I'm, I'm doing my own thing andbasically I just needed to set
(15:19):
up my life so that I was goingto be happy and thriving,
regardless of the TV businessand the entertainment business.
And I think, really, if I wasgoing to give anyone advice
that's kind of trying to getinto that business or has a
foothold in that business, sodon't do it.
No, no, I think.
No, I think, run the other way.
No, I would say, like, figureout a way to get financial
(15:43):
freedom and financial stabilitywith something that's adjacent
to it, something that's not soulcrushing, something that you
still enjoy and that ishopefully somehow kind of still
inspiring to you.
But do not put your, your lifeand your financial stability in
the hands of this business,because it will destroy you
unless you're in the 0.0001% andget so lucky.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
You're not going to be, you're not, you'd already
know you're in that 0.0001% oryou have such talent that you
won't need it.
You could probably write on andmake.
Anyway.
There's a, and you and I'vetalked before like this and like
I do some voiceover work, justas it comes from clients and and
your own advice was just, ifyou get an agent, great like and
it did.
It happened through a friend ofmine who is then and he's like
(16:27):
he got me into a decent agent inatlanta and the best part is
I'm not worried if I ever do ajob.
If I get one, that's fun andit's like that makes your
auditions easier, Cause I'm justlike oh, I'm just doing it how
I want to do it.
Now, I, you know, and and ifthey they pick you, it's great
and you win stuff here or thereor whatever.
But I agree that it would be sostressful if I was like this is
what I've made $600 this year.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, I mean, you know people, people wonder why
there's so many Nepo babies inHollywood, and I think the real
reason is that they havefinancial stability and they,
they, they have a, they have acushion, they have a safety net.
You know, I mean, yeah, Also,they, they've grown up on sets
and they know people and andHollywood is oddly attracted to
(17:12):
anyone who has a last name ofsomeone they recognize.
But it's not just that, I mean,I think honestly it's like hey,
if you want to be in theentertainment business, either
have a trust fund that's verysignificant or figure out a way
to have financial stability andthen do it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
I wish you didn't mention talent.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Oh no, talent doesn't matter.
You know, I wish you didn'tmention a talent.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Oh no, talent doesn't matter, I would, but I, you
know, friends of mine have movedout there and they're talking
about all things they're doing.
I'm like are you networkingwith anyone?
Because I feel like that'sprobably what matters most is
who you know, less so of howgood you are I mean yeah,
networking cream that we cancall milk networking.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Of course that's a big part of it and that's not
something I really ever excelledat or enjoyed, and I do have
some friends who just are greatat it and they love it and they
that's a huge part of theirsuccess and god bless them, uh.
But yeah, I mean, look, thereality is there's a lot of
talented actors and there's alot of talented directors and
writers.
So, yeah, there is an elementof networking.
(18:13):
But I think it's also reallyunderstanding your brand and
kind of you know, understandingwhat rock you stand on in the
sense of like, what makes youdifferent, what makes you
interesting, you know, and as awriter or director or as an
actor and I think I made themistake in my career a lot of
times of trying to prove that Icould do everything.
(18:34):
You know, oh, I can do comedyand I can do drama and I can be
the bad guy and I can be thegood guy, and it's like you know
what that's worked for likefive people in the entertainment
business and the history of,okay, like Tom Hanks is a good
example, somebody who doescomedy and drama really well.
Name me like five more.
You can't, you know.
I mean there's not a lot ofpeople.
So most people sort of they say,oh, this is something that
(18:57):
people want to pay me tocontinue doing.
I'm going to stick with that.
You know, and like you know, inmy case, I was my.
I was known for this kind ofnerdy, sweet character that
people really related to andloved, and of course, I wanted
to go and do the opposite ofthat.
I wanted to play like bad guysand I wanted to play brooding
guys and I wanted to really flexmy, my acting muscles and that
(19:18):
was the absolute worst thing Icould have done.
Like the casting directors andproducers and stuff.
They want to know you, theywant to think of you for roles,
right, and you want them tothink of you for roles.
So if they're confused, they'reconfused.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
they're like wait, is devin the bad guy or he's, he's
either good guys on a season306 of gray's anatomy oh yeah,
oh yeah, I'm still waiting forthat one.
You're like I'll take ithonestly, that'd be great to be
part of a part of that series.
Um, you, you, I'm going to callit.
Parallel out, though, what youjust described isn't actually a
core business.
Problem of any small businessis that people, when they have
have a let's call itsolopreneurs or even smaller
businesses, they don't solve acritical problem.
Typically, they solve, they tryto solve lots of things that
need revenue, and by doing thatyou get no revenue.
(20:01):
And you're right If you say Ialways give the example of Vince
Vaughn and acting.
He's not acting, that's justVince Vaughn.
I'm pretty sure that's just howhe is, and he's just charged up
on camera.
And, if I'm wrong, you probablymet the guy.
I don't know, but my pointwould be only that every role he
has the same kind of thing, andgood for him.
Will Ferrell, dumb character,funny, he's actually pretty
talented.
But why?
(20:21):
Why mess that up?
Cause that's what they, that'swhat people expect to see, the
and it's easy.
And do you struggle with that?
Though, on the director sidewhere, like let's say, you do
corporate shoots or you do thesekinds of cinematic things,
you're like I really want to godo this Do you find that same
(20:41):
problem going on with your, whatyou're doing in directing.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Well, I think, in when I initially started out, I
still kind of had some issueswith that, but that's been.
What's so great about being anentrepreneur and having my own
business is that there's no roomfor that bullshit.
You know, you basically got toknow what you do best and you
got to be able to explain thatand you got to have some stuff
to back that up and that'sultimately.
It's ironic, because that'skind of what made me a better
businessman is that I learnedthat the hard way, from doing it
wrong with on the creative side.
(21:06):
You know, my first feature thatI directed was a dramedy.
You know it was sort of halfcomedy, half drama.
And then I said, well, thatdidn't do that.
Well, I was happy with itcreatively, but it didn't do
that well in the marketplace.
So I said, okay, the next timeI'm going to make a
psychological thriller because Iknow that's a, a safe genre and
that was more successful.
Um, you know and, but likethere's no, there's no through
(21:36):
line there, right, like it'slike I directed two totally
different genres.
So I still, as a as a creative,I do sometimes still struggle
with that.
But when it comes to thecorporate work and the the
business that I have now in mywork in advertising and branded
content, it's different.
I mean, I'm like, hey, I'm theguy who, who gets you, you know,
authentic things.
I'm really good with helpingpeople tell the story of their
brand.
That's it, that's my thing.
You know what I mean and I andI focus on that and I and that's
what I sell, you know.
Of course, I do other things,but the point is I think when it
(21:59):
, when it comes to the corporateworld, I've finally been able
to really embrace the idea thatyou have to have a brand and you
have to have something thatyou're good at and you have to
be able to explain that topeople and really lean into it,
and I've been doing that.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Exactly and so, like you know, you Microsoft or
automation anywhere and someother pieces that you do, it's
like the, the corporate tech.
We can make it look cinematic,like you bring that fill.
That is a very niche good brand, cause there's always new tech
companies and they have pocketsand they have money and they
have more budgets and it's likecool, cool that pays for travel
houses.
And then the other creativeside is it's inconsequential how
(22:34):
it does and if you caught aflyer on something huge role,
that doesn't change.
You still gonna have thatcompany.
It's just gonna make that evenbigger and more expensive for
people to work with you.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
So yeah, no, it's true exactly no, there's no
pressure.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
You get the flyer.
You don't like you it's and Ilove that, and that's you learn
the lesson right of it.
I often ask this question justjust conscious of time on this,
but I want to know if you couldgo back to any moment in your
timeline.
When would you go back?
What would you do differently?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I go back and tell Tom Hanks that he's a dick.
No, I'm just kidding.
No, I made it.
Keep it in, no.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I think he's a dick.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
He's like the nicest guy ever.
That's so funny.
No, you know what it is.
I would go back to when I wasin my late teens and I had this
idea that I wanted to.
I didn't want to play highschool parts anymore.
I was like I've done it.
I was on this iconic highschool show.
I'm over it.
You know I'm older now.
(23:33):
I'm not doing that.
You know, I was like 19.
I'm like I'm way too old toplay high school.
Like one year, you know, uh,and really what.
What that meant was like ittook me out of some other
opportunities, but more so, moreso I was.
I was also saying, oh, I don'twant to play nerdy characters
anymore.
It's like, hey, man, dance withthe girl you brought.
You know, like people like youplaying that, you know, and not
(23:56):
really.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Vaughn right, unless you're Urkel, I don't know what
happened to him.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
No, exactly.
Look, when you think about Imean, vince Vaughn is a great
example, and that absolutely isI mean I don't about it.
So does Brad Pitt, and so doesTom Cruise, and so does pretty
much everybody.
I mean, there's not, there'sonly a maybe a handful of actors
(24:19):
that are kind of chameleons,like Daniel Day-Lewis or guys
like that, but it's very rare.
I mean, look at Ryan Reynolds,he's Ryan Reynolds, that's what
he does and he and he does itbeautifully, and you know it's.
It's like there are very fewpeople who stray from displaying
themselves or having their ownbrand and same with directors I
mean, look at, like Wes Anderson, you know, when you're watching
a Wes Anderson movie, becauseit looks like a Wes Anderson
(24:40):
movie.
And even Spielberg, I mean hestill is very prolific and has
done different genres, but hismovies are always heartfelt,
they're always kind of bigconcepts.
You know what I mean.
Or even Ron Howard, you alwayskind of big concepts, you know
what I mean.
Or even Ron Howard, like youget here at the movie.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
You know it's Steven Spielberg, so that's an
indicator, that's correct.
That's correct, it's not StevenSpielberg.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
I have a lot of Steven Spielberg trauma.
Apparently, I'm glad I got towork through some of it today.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
We're going to.
We're going to include somethings with that.
We won't say the word grooming,but we'll imply it and then
we'll.
I'm horrible.
I'm a horrible person deep downand it's okay for me to be like
that.
Evan, if there was a question Ishould have asked you today,
and I didn't.
What would that question havebeen?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Hmm, I guess what's the what's the most challenging
thing about acting?
Maybe even though I'm moreknown as a director now, I
suppose.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
but I started waiting for it, but let's, let's catch
it up.
You just you hit a pretty goodone recently.
I'm waiting for you to teasethat out here.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Talking about him, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, so I, I
got this role on the pit, whichis, I think, honestly one of the
best shows on tv now.
It's so brilliant, the way it'swritten, the directing, the
acting noah wiley's amazing.
It got nominated for a bunch ofemmys for for good reason.
Um, but yeah, I did twoepisodes on that show and it was
it was towards the end of theseason, which was great.
(26:10):
Um, just because you know, it'salways fun to be part of the
season finale.
And I got to work with johnwells, with him directing, and
he's a legend.
I mean, he's made shows, uh,the West wing and ER and
shameless, which was one of myfavorite shows.
Um, you know, he's uh, justdone amazing stuff in the
business and he's great guy.
But anyway, yeah, it was a.
That was a big break.
And you know, I was in Madrid.
(26:30):
Man, I made that self tape inMadrid and I was like on my
phone.
I had a good microphone with meto use with the phone but but
yeah, that's the great partabout acting now.
It's like, hey, I'm living mylife, I'm in Madrid having a
good time doing my thing and Idon't have to get this job.
It's not life or death at allanymore, but it was.
It was a great experience andreally fun to be part of.
Huh, the character were you anerdy guy.
(26:55):
Um no, but I was definitely likesomeone you root for.
You know, I think that's the,that's the main thing that I've
settled on now.
It's like, hey, I don't want toplay bad guys, I want to play
people that you're rooting for,that are kind of smart people
that are in difficult situationsmaybe, or maybe they may make
some bad choices, but overall,good guys are the way to go.
But yeah, that was a coolexperience and but it's an
(27:15):
example of like what I'm talkingabout, that if I didn't have my
business and if I didn't haveall this other work that I do in
the corporate world, you know Inever would have gotten that
part, because I just would.
It would have felt too preciousto me.
I would have.
I probably would have been justsort of trying too hard or or
just I don't know it would.
It would have, it would havehad a different vibe, and I
think that makes a bigdifference.
You never, you just can't.
(27:35):
You can't win the lottery whenyou're when you're when you're
poor.
You know you got to have alittle bit in the bank.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I want to hear what the latest harsh thing about
acting is.
But I will say this would youhave gone back to the audition
of Tom Hanks and maybe as a 40year old guy now to be like hey,
which role do you see me in?
And let's work on that one,let's go nail the one that you
look at me and go.
He is that, do you?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
if you have the balls to go, do that in that role, or
do you have to go do all 10 andjust go with it?
No, I think that's absolutelyright.
I think I would have got if, ifI had my perspective now, I
would have said hey, you knowwhat?
There's these three roles thatI really like.
Can I focus on those Right Like?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
this is me.
Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah.
Same in the 20s.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
this is me, right here, one of these three, yeah I
think I would have said that,or I would have said, hey, you
know, because he was having mecold read.
So, yeah, I had any.
I remember.
Hey, I think he said do youwant to like take a minute to go
outside and look at some ofthese?
And you're kind of stuck in thewind.
Dude, go outside, maybe I don'tknow.
No, no, he's, this is before Istarted.
But yeah, he gave me theopportunity.
I said, no, no, let's just gofor it, you know.
But but, but now I?
But now I would have thought,okay, let me go outside, let me
(28:38):
remind myself all thesedifferent roles and let me pick
a few that I think I'm mostright for and let me go back and
focus on those.
I think that's the yeah.
I didn't have the mentalconfidence, I guess, to say that
at the time or to really beaware of my own brand.
I was a little bit kind of justletting.
(28:59):
I didn't have my hand on therudder very much.
I was just kind of going withthe flow, which is not good
enough.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Would that be like in the acting world?
One of the things that we don'trealize is that you, the
earlier you can control thatbrand, the better.
From from like hey.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I don't even want to read for that Cause.
My my business in that in thatfield by um auditioning for
comedies, and the cast editorswould always say the same thing
to my agents afterwards.
They say we love Devon, he's sogreat, but you know he just he
doesn't really feel broad enoughfor for this.
You know he's, he's, he's toosubtle, you know, and it's like
every time you do that you'rediluting the brand.
You know, because you got toonly audition for things that
you know you're going to crushit.
You know not stuff where you'relike, well, I'm kind of right
(29:45):
and maybe that, maybe I can belike the outlier choice, and
it's like no, no, no, do thestuff that you know you're
you're going to crush.
Yeah, yeah, I think that'sabsolutely right and that you
know it's like that business nowis knowing when to say no and
in what you described right.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
And it's like that business now is knowing when to
say no and in what you describedright.
And it's hard as a smallbusiness owner to say no to a
project.
You probably are in a half assand probably ruin your personal
brand Cause you're not going todo it very well.
And the example might be likehey, I'll do your email
marketing, I have a clue how togo do it, but you're like, I
figured it out.
I've sent an email.
The directors and castingdirectors are like who is Devin?
(30:17):
Like what does he want to play?
Cause we don't know how to putthem.
He's showing up with thesecomedy things he never makes it,
doesn't want to go do that.
So, whatever, let's move on.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
There's a million guys out here no-transcript
(30:49):
different company and she said,hey, we haven't had any video
content, but is there any chanceyou want to go to New York and
just do some stills photographyfor us?
And I said, well, I, Idefinitely love cameras.
My cameras are versatile, whereI can do stills or video.
And uh, I said, you know, letme uh send me an example of the
previous event that and so I canmake sure I have the right
(31:10):
equipment and I can do it.
And she sends to me.
I said, oh, yeah, I can totallydo that.
I said, okay, yeah, sure, butI'll come do it.
And then I'm like franticallycalling my buddy hey, man, uh,
you know he's a professionalstills photographer, which I am
not at this point, you know.
I go, hey, like I'm doing thisevent.
What do I need?
He's like, okay, well, you'regoing to need to buy a flash and
(31:31):
you're going to want to holdtwo cameras.
You know, get it, have onestrapped in your back with a
long lens, the other one withthe wide York, I went to B&H
Photo, which is my favoriteplace to buy equipment.
It's amazing, I went there,they're so good.
They're so knowledgeable.
They're so knowledgeable.
It's like the only place leftin the world where you can call
and get an actual human that canhelp you decide.
(31:51):
I'll do video.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
They'll actually put me in a store.
The guy will go out on thefloor and get something like hey
, this is what you want to doand this is where it fits.
I'm like, thanks, and they'renot sponsoring this.
Guys.
I'm telling you B&H Photo likeit's the same price as Amazon
for the stuff, but they'llactually help you, it's like you
know.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, they're so knowledgeable.
So I go in there I say, hey,okay, this is the lens which is
super expensive.
But I'm like, hey, this job'spaying for it, it's worth it,
I'm going to do it.
So I get this amazing lens andit helped me to go, obviously,
do that job and then that'lllead to more, more jobs for
(32:27):
stills and I actually enjoyed it.
I was like, hey, this is fun.
It's kind of like I like it asmuch as video really, and it's
less equipment.
So it's fun, it's easier.
Those jobs anyway.
But that lens, I just shot apassion project which was a
music video for my friend, brianvanderark, from the verve pipe
um, it's called tattoo.
It just came out and it cameout so beautiful.
But I used that lens a lot inthe filming of that video, which
(32:51):
really was a passion project,and I couldn't have had that
lens or afforded that lens if itwasn't for this corporate gig,
you know.
So it's just cool.
I think the way things tietogether, it's like, hey, the
more that I do in the corporatespace and the more free I am and
the more I can have this sortof stability, the more I'm able
to go do these passion projectsthat don't pay a lot but are
really, like, creativelysatisfying.
And one of the reasons I wantto be a director in the first
(33:13):
place is because I love musicvideos, growing up, you know,
and so that was a real thrill.
But I think it all tiestogether and it and it makes me
a better director.
So the next time I do get anopportunity to direct a TV show
or I'm kind of in the earlystages of trying to get ready to
do a third feature, you know,I've gotten so much better at
using the camera andunderstanding lighting and all
this stuff because I do a lot ofit myself for these corporate
(33:35):
jobs, cause I scale up and downas needed.
So yeah, it's been aninteresting journey, but so far
so good.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I'll just, from the business, overlay right In.
When you're auditioning out forcomedy things when you're
younger, you're saying I want togo do that.
So they get you in because youhad a name, you got a brand.
You get in didn't work, hurtyour brand a little.
The reverse what you justdescribed is someone asked you
to go do it and you're like,okay, I can do that.
Sure, like you know what I do,but I'll do it.
And if the same thing had done,someone had said, hey, I'd like
(34:05):
him to audition for this comedything, you're more likely to
get it because they asked you.
Now I'm not saying that didn'thappen for you or anything else,
but the with me to figure itout a little bit.
Yeah, I can get it done.
Do pretty well.
You should take that risk.
But if you're out thereactually marketing or trying to
do a brand that you are not,it's going to hurt.
(34:25):
It's going to hurt.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Exactly.
Yeah, I was really trying toforce the issue, I think, to
sort of prove myself, and I wastrying to be way too broad with
what I was good at.
But yeah, I agree, I think ifsomething comes to you and it's
a slight adjustment from whatyou is your normal brand, great,
go for it.
But that's totally differentthan than having this sort of
scattershot.
Like you know, method of like,I can do everything.
(34:47):
It's like that doesn't work inthe corporate world.
Why would that work in the, inthe entertainment business?
It doesn't.
I mean, it's just there's no,it makes no sense at all.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
All right, so listen, I usually to ask people to tell
you who should get ahold of youand who should do that, so you
can go to the corporate route of.
Hey, listen, you really feelsome awesome shit for you to do
it or go watch your show.
I mean, I'll leave it to you.
You're a shameless plug.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Uh, my shameless plug .
I would definitely like peopleto check out my website
authentic content productions.
Um, it's authentic content P?
R OR-O-D-S dot com.
That's where I have a lot of mywork that I'm most proud of
that I've done in the last fewyears within the corporate space
and in the tech space, and alsosome of the music videos and
some of the other stuff.
So, yeah, check it out.
(35:29):
I love working with new brandsand I love working with people
and kind of providing thatcinematic quality for branded
content.
That's really my main thing.
And uh, yeah, check it out.
And also on instagram, I havemy own instagram handle, which
is just at devin gummersall, andI also have at authentic
content prods.
So, yeah, check me out andfollow me and hopefully, come
(35:52):
bring some, bring something tothe table that I can help you
with.
You know, I love helping brandsto tell their story.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
That's right, just google his name.
A bunch of shit comes up.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
It's easy which we're going to do when we make his
movie trailer his fake one yeahyeah, yeah uh, I have a book in
mind too, if anybody's if,should I tell you the book thing
, because you always ask aboutthe book?
Right, I'm gonna be about so.
So, actually, when I wasworking on the pit this ties in,
but I but I was working on thepit, I was talking to Noah Wiley
.
He's a great guy, great actor,great writer, director.
(36:22):
He does a lot of stuff.
He's he's definitely astoryteller and we were talking
about directing and writing andhe suggested this book by George
Saunders and it's called.
Wait, hold on.
I got to look at my bookshelf.
Yeah, okay, just make sure Iget it right.
(36:45):
It's a book by George Saunderscalled A Swim in a Pond in the
Rain, and he's a professor forwriting and he's just a great
writer.
But it basically takes a lookat like some classic literature
and talks about how it succeedsand like why it works.
And I think it applies to anycreative endeavor, like whether
it's like why it works.
Um, and I think it applies toany, any creative endeavor, like
whether it's, you know any anyform of storytelling.
But I thought it was a reallyinspiring and interesting read
anybody who's at all interestedin literature or writing check
(37:08):
that out.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Appreciate it, devin.
Thanks for jumping on here withme.
I know I know you're busytraveling the world having fun
just drinking margaritaswherever you choose.
So, uh, or mojitos, you know it, it depends.
But whatever he's like, youknow shit, as always.
Thanks for having me and listenanybody who made it to the show
.
Thank you so much for listeningwatching.
If this is the first timeyou're here, I hope it is the
(37:29):
first of many.
Get out there, go cut a tie tosomething holding you back from
your success.
Thanks for listening.
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