July 17, 2025 • 24 mins
Cut The Tie Podcast with John Teichert
What happens when your boss tells you—11 days into a major leadership role—that you’re the wrong guy for the job? In this commanding episode of Cut The Tie, Thomas Helfrich sits down with Brigadier General (Ret.) John “Dragon” Teichert to talk about what true leadership looks like when your career is on the line.
After serving as a fighter pilot and leading top aerospace testing units in the U.S. Air Force, John faced one of his greatest leadership tests—not in combat, but in confronting ego, fear, and toxic leadership. What followed was a transformation fueled by faith, selflessness, and a total redefinition of success. This isn’t just military strategy—it’s a masterclass in servant leadership.
About John Teichert:
John Teichert is a retired U.S. Air Force Brigadier General and former F-15E and F-22 pilot. Known by his call sign “Dragon,” he led high-performing teams in some of the most complex national security and aerospace environments. Today, he’s a keynote speaker and leadership coach, helping others break barriers, challenge convention, and ignite innovation through selfless leadership. He’s also a passionate advocate for faith-based values and character-driven transformation.
In this episode, Thomas and John discuss:
- Cutting ties with ego
John shares how a toxic boss became the unexpected catalyst for his most important leadership transformation. - Leading through selflessness, not self-preservation
By assuming his career was over, John was freed to lead solely in service of his team—and it made all the difference. - The biblical blueprint for leadership
He breaks down how Scripture, especially the example of Jesus, continues to guide his life and leadership today. - From test pilot to culture shifter
At Edwards Air Force Base, John led a cultural overhaul that made it an innovation juggernaut—outperforming the rest of the Air Force combined. - How dad jokes became a leadership tactic
John opens up about the surprising power of humor and humility in building connection and morale.
Key Takeaways:
- Your title doesn’t define your impact
Even when told he wasn’t “the guy,” John led with purpose—and delivered undeniable results. - Selfless leadership wins—even in toxic environments
The shift from self-focus to team-focus led to unexpected promotion and legacy. - Faith is a leadership strategy
The Bible offers time-tested truths on how to lead with character, humility, and courage. - Purpose and community drive performance
Every human wants to be loved and part of something bigger—leaders must build both. - The best way to lead? Add value without expecting credit
When you focus on others’ growth, your own success follows naturally.
Connect with John Teichert:
💼 LinkedIn: John Teichert
🌐 Website: www.johnteichert.com
Connect with Thomas Helfrich:
🐦 Twitter: @thelfrich
📘 Facebook: Cut the Tie Group
💼 LinkedIn: Thomas Helfrich
🌐 Website: www.cutthetie.com
📧 Email: t@instantlyrelevant.com
🚀 InstantlyRelevant.com
Serious about LinkedIn Lead Generation? Stop Guessing what to do on LinkedIn and ignite revenue from relevance with Instantly Relevant Lead System
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Cut the Tie podcast.
Hi, I'm your host, thomasHelfrich.
I am on a mission to help youcut the tie to whatever it is
holding you back from success,and that success does need to be
defined by you and no one else.
Otherwise, you're chasingsomeone else's dream and you
won't know what ties to cut.
And today I'm joined by JohnTeichert.
I hope I pronounced that right,john.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I am doing great, thomas, thanks for having me.
This is going to be fun.
I appreciate you coming on Easyenough.
Take a moment, introduceyourself and what it is you do,
absolutely.
My name is Brigadier GeneralRetired John Dragon Tigert.
I was an F-15E fighter pilot,an F-22 test pilot.
I led in various places in theUnited States Air Force and two
years ago I retired to jump outof that world, to jump into
(00:41):
leadership, development, to helppeople in our nation become the
best possible version ofthemselves, and that's what I'm
doing now in Lebanon.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Listen, that means our mission's aligned to some
degree.
You know I'm RAF, you're US AirForce.
So you know, it sounds likeyou're going Mach 5 to get there
.
I'm going to stop.
I'm going to stop with the airjokes right now.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
It's all that I know.
Keep using that terminology andI'll actually understand you.
What is your call sign Dragon?
It is Dragon.
I got it in 1998.
I don't tell people why.
It's usually based on a storyof something stupid you did, but
it's got to sound cool.
The only thing I tell people ithas to do with Zergos of Spain
and nuclear weapons, and I'llleave it at that.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
For you to get Dragon , though most of them are not
that cool, so you must have donesomething epic where someone's
like we got to go Dragon.
We want to call him SquirrelyUnicorn or something, but we
have to go Dragon.
It's too cool.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
It was pretty epic and because nuclear weapons are
involved, it has to bemagnificent and it was.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I love it.
I love it.
Does anybody confuse you withTom Cruise?
Occasionally.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I wish that I could be considered his doppelganger.
I am not, but I fly as coolplanes as he's ever flown, even
in the movies.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
The thing that I found funny is, you know, so I
didn't serve.
I did a couple of years atAFNAC or Cyber Command as a
contractor, but when it was atBarksdale where the nukes were,
I spent some time in those lowerareas of that base and during
that time I learned some thingsabout the Air Force.
I can't share, obviously, someof them, but what I did find out
(02:22):
was that that is the smartestbranch of the Air Force.
They make fun of theintelligence side in the Army
and they're like, yeah, butthey're not that smart.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
We've got a lot of smart people on our side, Thomas
.
I love the fact that I'vegotten to work with several of
them and they put up with me.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
You are so nice, you're well-conditioned, not to
take the bait on me.
That's the other form.
I love you for that.
All right, hey, tell me alittle bit.
Why are you in your endeavor?
Why are you the guy, though?
So I always ask that kind ofinitial question of like why
should someone pick you to workwith in your new mission?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Thomas, I've had the fortune of being able to apply
leadership lessons and I've seenthem work, quantifiably work.
And the story I most often tellpeople is one where I showed up
to lead Edwards Air Force Base,a place known as the center of
the aerospace testing universe.
It was a bureaucratic quagmireand in six weeks we changed the
(03:19):
culture to be an innovationjuggernaut, to have more
innovation activity than therest of the Air Force combined.
And it's those types ofleadership principles that I
love to share with people sothat they can apply them in
their own context and breakbarriers, challenge convention
and ignite innovation.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
How did you do?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
that it's a whole series of traditional leadership
techniques with a little bit offlair, and, frankly, a big part
of it stems from cutting thetie and getting away from any
concern about myself or my owncareer progression and a firm
desire to help the people aroundme become the best possible
version of themselves, and Ijust saw individuals blossom and
(03:59):
the organization thrive as aresult.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
And you're describing leadership right as the core of
that, and leadership plus aphilosophy.
So people are in leadershippositions that aren't leaders,
and it sounds like when you wereborn to be a leader and were in
the position of doing that.
In your own journey, though,did you ever have a mentor pull
you aside and say hey, you needto cut this time, you need to
(04:23):
start or stop doing this?
Have a mentor pull you asideand say, hey, you need to cut
this time.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
You need to start or stop doing this.
There was actually somethingthat happened to me, thomas,
that wasn't at the bequest of aleader, but it was, to somewhat
extent, in a response to toxicleadership.
I was the commander of the F-22test unit in the Air Force,
there at Edwards Air Force Base,11 days on the job about a 700
person organization and my bossbrought me in and he sat me down
(04:48):
and he said Dragon, you're notthe guy.
And I said, sir, what do youmean by that?
And he said well, you're notthe right leader for the
organization You're going to dohorribly.
I asked him well, that meansyou're firing me, right?
And he said no, I'm stuck withyou.
(05:09):
And then he sent me out of theroom and I went home and I
talked to my wife and we thoughtabout it and we prayed about it
and really the tide that was tobe cut at that moment was I had
an opportunity to be the typeof leader that my team needed.
Before he fired me, I didn'tknow whether he was going to
fire me soon and really thatmeant my career was over, but I
could focus on being the righttype of leader that they needed.
Being selfless in my leadershipand during the next two years
of his toxicity, but myrepetition in selfless
(05:33):
leadership, it created in me theright type of leadership
philosophy that I've carriedwith me ever since.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I mean and maybe in that, so this actually I don't
usually ask this question thisway, but I think it'll be
important here how did youdefine success before that?
And then, how did you definesuccess after that?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
going to help me springboard to the next position
.
That's selfish.
And then there was a little bitbefore that of how can I help
the people on my team become thebest possible word of
themselves.
But the good thing about whathe did not because this was his
intent, but because it was theresult was that I realized that
likely my career was over andnow I could fully focus not on
myself and my own promotion buton the betterment of the team.
(06:27):
And now I call it lethal weaponleadership to some extent, if
you go back to that series ofmovies Lethal Weapon and Mel
Gibson and Danny Glover and Ithink Mel Gibson's character was
Detective Riggs and he wasreckless but he had kind of
given up on life and was veryefficient at getting the job
done because he didn't careabout himself.
(06:47):
And I think leaders in ourcommunity or society could do a
lot better job in making alasting, sustainable impact If
they set themselves aside, theycut that tie of selfishness and
they move on, and not a recklessway but a selfless way, so that
they can make an impact on thepeople in the organization
(07:08):
they've been entrusted with.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I a hundred percent agree If, if, if people focused
on the outcome and less so theirlegacy in it, I think we all
move faster further, becausethen you're doing your part
without you know, with, with analtruistic mindset as opposed to
me, me, me and it's hard, Imean, we all struggle with it
every day, but you're doing anacting and that's how you've
turned it around with it.
(07:30):
And if you really describe, isthat the moment, though, where
you knew, was it with your wife,when you were praying and
you're like I'm gonna becomethis, or was there another
moment later that made it makesense, like the aha moment?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
No, I think that was the aha moment.
I went to bed, I was a littledistraught, I was thinking that
this very promising career wasover.
And then I woke up in themorning with this piece that I
have an opportunity now becausenone of it is to be about me to
do right as a leader.
And you know, I'd grown upwatching leaders and I'd seen
far too many of them becometoxic or become selfish and not
(08:05):
care for their team.
And I woke up and I realizedthis was an opportunity for
however long that I had.
And you know, the amazing thing, thomas, is this that I
actually got promoted early toFulberg Colonel out of that
position, not because he changedhis mind, but because the
organization did so well as aresult of that type of
leadership that I don't thinkanybody could deny that things
(08:28):
were working based on thatclimate and culture.
And so the aha moment waswaking up the next morning with
a piece about it and thesituation and going into work
and getting the reps in for thenext two years.
That it's never about me, it'sall about them.
And the organization and theindividuals in the organization
thrived as a result.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Surprised me a story During my small time as a
contractor.
I got a coin from a three-starover DISA.
So you know, the Department ofInformation Security, whatever,
the they run like theinfrastructure of whatever.
So you probably know more thanI do.
All I knew was I was out of myelement and the general's coming
(09:09):
by each little booth.
I'm thinking, oh, this is dogand pony, there's all these
cameras, his people, his hand,whatever.
And he comes at the boothbehind it, beside us, and this
guy tells him what he does.
And the guy's just an arrogant.
We didn't need this crap.
This is the stuff.
I'm like oh God, this is legit.
Like this guy's likelegitimately evaluate, he does
(09:31):
ours.
Hey, our team built somethingfor your warfighter to help you
get, you know, tacticaladministration of the grid.
While a deer I'm giving you asummary he's like how'd you guys
do that?
I was like well, that guy, I go.
He built it.
I go, I'm the mouthpiece.
I don't ask him.
He gave me a coin.
I had no idea what this was andI was like hey, Jeff, my
(09:52):
teammate, this is yours.
And he was like and he was fromAir Force.
And he was like are you kiddingme?
You're giving me this.
I was like what do you mean?
He's like are you kidding me?
You're giving me this.
I was like what do you mean?
He's like you have no idea whathe just gave me and he and it's
like I can go to almost any barnow.
It's like except for apresidential coin, there's not a
very many that you're higherthan this corn.
I remember that.
(10:13):
And he, I, it was like I, I waslike, truly like, in that
moment, Um, I had a moment youdescribed me.
I was like I didn't care aboutwhat I thought.
I was like this is the guy thatbuilt it and this general loved
it.
He was just too afraid to talk.
That was funny, I think.
My point being is, if morepeople were selfless like you
just described, becausedownstream from that, the teams
rocked it for the next, like forthe rest of the time I was
(10:34):
there because because they wereappreciated and they were felt,
and I also didn't care about mycareer at that point as well.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Well, thomas, I think commendable on you for
realizing that hey, let medeflect the credit to somebody
that maybe more often deservesit.
You know, often leaders aretold own the blame and share the
credit, but they do the reverse.
And you did exactly what youshould do, which is deflect the
praise and the credit tosomebody else.
And when you create that atscale in an organization, then
(11:05):
now it becomes a magnificentmultiplier of effectiveness of
that organization and the peoplethat grow up in that
organization.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
So I think you're.
I want to.
I always try to extract alesson for listeners out of some
of the stuff I think.
When people think of theircareer, they think in so much in
terms of me, me, me.
That ends up not where theywanted to go and as soon as they
pivot to, I'm just going tomake my teams awesome and
everyone around me.
This selfless behavior is theway to get the career that you
want, because you didn't evenhave a good boss ahead of you to
(11:35):
help you pull you up, but theorganization felt it and they
had to reward and I think yourown self-sufficient sense of
worth, fair enough to say, feltmuch better doing that every day
than showing up wondering, well, I'm going to get promoted, I'm
going to get something.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
No, you're right, Thomas, and I think it was
Ronald Reagan that saidsomething like it's amazing how
much you can get done if youdon't care who gets the credit.
And I don't know why.
I've kept stumbling across thisimportant truth multiple times
(12:11):
in my own leadership study.
But the idea is that if all ofus add value oversized value to
our community or society ororganization, then it's super
good for society.
But guess what?
It also is good for you too,because people are going to know
hey, this guy or this gal givesvalue, adds value, provides
selfless leadership, and whenyou do that, you now become in
demand.
But, more importantly, yourteam, its talent and its skill
(12:31):
set is unlocked in a way thatnever would have happened
otherwise.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
You know who else used to talk about this.
A lot was Jesus.
So you talk about prayer and wego down and listen and a lot of
people who are entrepreneursand people who are out there
trying to make it, they have alot of faith base and you said
you prayed around that and ifyou backed up a few years ago
before I kind of started a faithjourney, I would have just kind
of dismissed that as, whateverI get that because that's truly
(12:56):
some of the teachings from theBible is to be selfless, lead
without resolve yourself, haveeffect on as many as you can in
a positive way, even at cost ofyour own life, and I think
that's what you just applied.
Some teachings, and maybe youcould talk about that a bit too,
of where that?
Is that a part of gratefulness,or where does that come from?
(13:17):
From a core for you?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Well, thomas, to me it goes back to the world's best
leadership book, which is theHoly Bible.
And you watch the example ofJesus very specifically spelled
out in Matthew, chapter 20,where if you're great or you're
chief, then your responsibilityis to minister and to serve.
And if you look at thestewardship of our lives, the
(13:43):
ability to truly make amulti-generational, lasting
impact, then the only way thatwe can do that effectively is to
follow those principles thatare biblical, and Jesus shows
them perfectly by pouringourselves into other and raising
them up to become the bestpossible version themselves.
And if you set your ownprerogatives aside to do that,
like he did so brilliantly, thennow you see that investment in
(14:05):
others bear fruit in alldifferent sorts of ways.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Love it.
For the purposes of what's thiscalled For a short clip, so we
have it.
Give me the lesson for thelistener.
What is your one piece ofadvice if a listener they're
locked in.
They want to hear it.
What is your one piece ofadvice if a listener is they're
locked in.
They want to hear it?
What are you going to tell them?
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Set yourself aside and add value to the people who
are around you, to yourcommunity, to your organization,
because when you do so, itgives a massive boost to the
environment in which you liveand work, and you'll become the
guy or the gal that people aregoing to tap on the shoulder and
(14:44):
want to be a part of their team, because they know that you are
there to add value to othersand not yourself.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, what are you going to be remembered for?
And I think you'd rather beremembered for giving to a
community and those around youthan how much money you had or
how many trips you took orwhatever.
Whatever the selfish thingsthat you know, because that's
beautiful Rapid fire for you.
What is the best businessadvice you've ever received?
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Herb Keller was the founder of Southwest Airlines
and he said you can tell thevalue of an organization, the
values of an organization, bylooking at two things their
calendar and their checkbook.
How they spend their time, howthey spend their money is a true
reflection of their values, notjust what they write on a wall
and put up as a missionstatement.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
I, like you, practiced that.
Who gives you inspiration?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
My family.
We call ourselves Team Tigard.
I've got an incredible wifewho's a chemistry professor at
the Naval Academy, three greatkids, two of which are serving
our country, one of which plansto, and I just love serving my
country and people around ustogether as a part of that five
ship that we call Team Tigard.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
One of our good friends, their daughter, just
got in the naval caddy.
She starts in the you know soon, obviously in the fall, so she
could be a chemist.
She's on that path.
She's probably going to runinto your wife.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Well, you know, my wife teaches plead chemistry,
freshman chemistry next year,first semester.
So maybe she'll be in my wife'sclass.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
We'll take that offline, I will.
I will see if that happens andyou can be like, how's she doing
?
I'm like, yeah, I talked to herchemistry teacher and, uh, her
husband's upset with you, um,what's the what?
What is your?
You know, the must read book.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
The Holy Bible we talked about it earlier Thomas.
All of the life's lessons, allleadership lessons are contained
in that book.
I do like to give a secularanalog, if you will, my favorite
secular leadership book, whichis American generalship, which
goes through four-star generalssince World War II.
Each chapter is a differentcharacteristic and how that
characteristic was embodied bythose leaders.
(16:47):
The subtitle is Character isEverything, by the way, which is
a great example of what thatbook's worldview is all about.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I love it.
You know about what are thechallenges, and those are rapid
fire.
We have a little time here.
I've struggled with how tofunctionally read the Bible
because they are different.
They're basically sub bookswithin the stories.
How do you recommend somebodywho's really never read the
Bible?
With the idea of leadership inmind, how would you approach
reading?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
it.
Thomas.
I'm actually doing a study thisyear where I'm, during my
morning devotions looking atleaders and deep diving about
those biblical leadersthroughout the Bible and I've
gone through Daniel and I'vegone through Joseph and I've
gone through Esther and I'vegone through Rahab and I think
if you take a look at any onlinetool and say I want to learn
(17:34):
about X leader in the Bible,where the verses or the chapters
that can take me there, then Ithink that's a great example and
of course, jesus is the primeexample of all of that about how
we can take those real,time-tested principles and apply
them to our lives by looking atthe individual examples of
individual biblical leaders.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
You know, I look back on, like you know, humans
around about 100,000 or so years, the kind of the state we're in
.
Maybe I'm off the math, butit's not a long time, and to me
it's amazing how fast.
Like you know, that meansbasically we've had 5,000
patriarchs, grandfathers, if youwill, and only like two have
probably interacted withtechnology.
Just look, you will.
(18:15):
And only two have probablyinteracted with technology.
Right, and if we look at howwell and how fast we dismiss
thousands of years of peoplestudying, let's say, meditation
or mindfulness or Buddhism oreven religion, how quick people
dismiss that as whatever people,the old, but they didn't have
all this tech to distract them.
That's what they did for hours.
And I think people really needto look sometimes backwards to
see what mattered, because we'renot that much smarter if not,
(18:37):
we might even be dumber than wewere back then because people
read, they studied, theyinteracted, they conversed.
They also had to worry aboutgetting murdered more often.
But anyway, the point being is,I think that's a great place to
start, just because myperspective here, as I've gotten
older, is like, wow, thosepeople really had to think a lot
and they had a lot of thinkersaround them that talk, and
that's how they transferred theknowledge, because books were
rare, anyway.
So I don't have a question withthat, except I think that's a
(19:00):
great story.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
No, I've actually got a follow on to that, if you
don't mind.
No, of course not.
I think there are twofundamental elements in human
nature that everybody is lookingfor they want to be loved or
cared for and they want to bepart of something greater than
themselves.
And as I study leadershipthroughout history, all the way
back to thousands of years ago,the good leaders tap into
(19:25):
showing how they care for peopleand how they connect people
with something greater thanthemselves.
And whether that's ancientGreece or biblical times, or our
founding as a nation, orpresent day, it's not about
technology.
Those are leadership tactics.
It is about finding a way tofulfill those two innate human
needs of the human condition.
And if we do that well bystudying leaders of the past,
(19:46):
then it makes us more effectivetoday.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
You're 100% agree with that, and it's actually
that data is supported by bluezones in the world.
They have high community andthey have high sense of purpose
and which, which is a form oflove, right Of like hey, I serve
others and if you look at bluezones, there's nothing else that
there, there's no like, there'snothing to say.
The same foods, and it's that.
Those are the two factors thatare zones in the world.
(20:10):
That single data, well, thosetwo data points.
I think that's amazing.
All right, if you could go backin time and do anything
different, what?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
point of time would you go to and what would you do
differently?
Thomas, I would go back to thestart of college.
I think in the first 10 to 15years of my adult life I was way
too focused on heads down inthe trenches being really good
as a tactical expert.
But I think you can be bettereven as a tactical expert by
lifting your head up more oftenthan I did, looking around and
(20:41):
understanding the context.
I call it, or I've heard itcalled, environmental scanning,
and I think I started thatreally well in the middle of my
mid-30s about being intentionaland looking around.
But I really wish I would havestarted as a 17 year old
freshman at MIT, spending moretime looking up on occasion,
looking around and understandingthe context in which which I
(21:03):
operate.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, that would be.
If we could find a way totransfer wisdom instead of
knowledge to the youth we wouldhave.
We would be wow, we wouldreally advance quickly, but
students for sure.
Final question for you and, bythe way, thank you so much for
coming on.
This is awesome.
If there's a question I shouldhave asked you today that I
didn't, what would that questionhave been and how do you answer
(21:25):
it?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Hey, Thomas, you're a guy who's known for dad jokes
and you didn't ask me about dadjokes and I haven't heard a dad
joke from you.
So I would ask you for dadjokes.
I'll give you a couple if youdon't mind.
You know, I just came back froma Disney cruise and I had a
great conversation with adolphin.
We just clicked.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Or you know what's the best thing about living in
Switzerland, do you know?
I don't, I'm not really sure,but the flag's a big plus, it's
a big plus, yeah, hey so you gotone for me.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I do.
Well, maybe discreet, butthere's really three types of
people in the world.
There's those that can countand those that cannot.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I love it, thank you, and it's a math joke.
I'm a STEM guy, so that'sperfect.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I was going to throw a little nerdiness in with that,
just the.
You know there are other sidesof jokes I do like, which, like
you know, dark humor is not.
You know, it's kind of likebooed.
Not everyone gets it.
See, he didn't laugh at thatone.
That tells you.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
It's a little dark, a little like dad jokes Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
So if you, but this is my advice to the listener.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Start with one of those two jokes.
If you're going to do a comedyset, and just see who laughs,
you know where to go, where totake it.
By the way, I've found that dadjokes are a leadership
technique.
They're a good leadership tool.
I was forced to dress up as anelf earlier on in my leadership
journey at the Christmas partyof our organization, and I
decided to torture the peoplearound me by telling about three
dozen elf dad jokes throughoutthe night, and I found out that
it really opens up doors andmaybe creates relationships or
vulnerabilities that peoplewouldn't otherwise attribute to
(23:00):
you, and so I actually haveincorporated dad jokes into my
leadership repertoire.
Uh, and you know, once youbecome known as the dad joke
Keller, people give you material, so it's easy to self-sustain.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
We can take that offline.
I'm a huge dad joke groupie.
I'll say it that way.
I'm a groupie.
I am, I'm a groupie.
I watch dad jokes.
I love the pun of it.
It's just anyway.
So shameless plug time for you.
Who should get a hold of youand how do you want them to do?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
that, yeah, thomas.
Johntykertcom is my website.
You can sign on there for afree newsletter.
I'm prolific on LinkedIn and Ido a lot of keynote speaking on
five topics leadership,innovation, national security,
international affairs andadvanced technology.
If there's any of yourlisteners out there that are
interested in hearing somebodyspeak from experience about any
(23:52):
of those, have them reach out tome via my website.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Awesome, John.
Thanks so much for coming ontoday.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
This has been a ton of fun.
Thank you, Thomas.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
And listen anyone who's still here.
I really appreciate you gettingto this point in the show and
if this is the first time you'vebeen here, I hope it's the
first of many If you've beenhere before you.
Welcome to Cut the Tie podcast.
Hi, I'm your host, thomasHelfrich.
I am on a mission to help youcut the tie to whatever it is
holding you back from success,and that success does need to be
defined by you and no one else.
Otherwise, you're chasingsomeone else's dream and you
won't know what ties to cut.
And today I'm joined by JohnTeichert.
I hope I pronounced that right,john.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I am doing great, thomas, thanks for having me.
This is going to be fun.
I appreciate you coming on Easyenough.
Take a moment, introduceyourself and what it is you do,
absolutely.
My name is Brigadier GeneralRetired John Dragon Tigert.
I was an F-15E fighter pilot,an F-22 test pilot.
I led in various places in theUnited States Air Force and two
years ago I retired to jump outof that world, to jump into
(00:41):
leadership, development, to helppeople in our nation become the
best possible version ofthemselves, and that's what I'm
doing now in Lebanon.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Listen, that means our mission's aligned to some
degree.
You know I'm RAF, you're US AirForce.
So you know, it sounds likeyou're going Mach 5 to get there
.
I'm going to stop.
I'm going to stop with the airjokes right now.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
It's all that I know.
Keep using that terminology andI'll actually understand you.
What is your call sign Dragon?
It is Dragon.
I got it in 1998.
I don't tell people why.
It's usually based on a storyof something stupid you did, but
it's got to sound cool.
The only thing I tell people ithas to do with Zergos of Spain
and nuclear weapons, and I'llleave it at that.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
For you to get Dragon , though most of them are not
that cool, so you must have donesomething epic where someone's
like we got to go Dragon.
We want to call him SquirrelyUnicorn or something, but we
have to go Dragon.
It's too cool.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
It was pretty epic and because nuclear weapons are
involved, it has to bemagnificent and it was.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I love it.
I love it.
Does anybody confuse you withTom Cruise?
Occasionally.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I wish that I could be considered his doppelganger.
I am not, but I fly as coolplanes as he's ever flown, even
in the movies.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
The thing that I found funny is, you know, so I
didn't serve.
I did a couple of years atAFNAC or Cyber Command as a
contractor, but when it was atBarksdale where the nukes were,
I spent some time in those lowerareas of that base and during
that time I learned some thingsabout the Air Force.
I can't share, obviously, someof them, but what I did find out
(02:22):
was that that is the smartestbranch of the Air Force.
They make fun of theintelligence side in the Army
and they're like, yeah, butthey're not that smart.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
We've got a lot of smart people on our side, Thomas
.
I love the fact that I'vegotten to work with several of
them and they put up with me.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
You are so nice, you're well-conditioned, not to
take the bait on me.
That's the other form.
I love you for that.
All right, hey, tell me alittle bit.
Why are you in your endeavor?
Why are you the guy, though?
So I always ask that kind ofinitial question of like why
should someone pick you to workwith in your new mission?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Thomas, I've had the fortune of being able to apply
leadership lessons and I've seenthem work, quantifiably work.
And the story I most often tellpeople is one where I showed up
to lead Edwards Air Force Base,a place known as the center of
the aerospace testing universe.
It was a bureaucratic quagmireand in six weeks we changed the
(03:19):
culture to be an innovationjuggernaut, to have more
innovation activity than therest of the Air Force combined.
And it's those types ofleadership principles that I
love to share with people sothat they can apply them in
their own context and breakbarriers, challenge convention
and ignite innovation.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
How did you do?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
that it's a whole series of traditional leadership
techniques with a little bit offlair, and, frankly, a big part
of it stems from cutting thetie and getting away from any
concern about myself or my owncareer progression and a firm
desire to help the people aroundme become the best possible
version of themselves, and Ijust saw individuals blossom and
(03:59):
the organization thrive as aresult.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
And you're describing leadership right as the core of
that, and leadership plus aphilosophy.
So people are in leadershippositions that aren't leaders,
and it sounds like when you wereborn to be a leader and were in
the position of doing that.
In your own journey, though,did you ever have a mentor pull
you aside and say hey, you needto cut this time, you need to
(04:23):
start or stop doing this?
Have a mentor pull you asideand say, hey, you need to cut
this time.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
You need to start or stop doing this.
There was actually somethingthat happened to me, thomas,
that wasn't at the bequest of aleader, but it was, to somewhat
extent, in a response to toxicleadership.
I was the commander of the F-22test unit in the Air Force,
there at Edwards Air Force Base,11 days on the job about a 700
person organization and my bossbrought me in and he sat me down
(04:48):
and he said Dragon, you're notthe guy.
And I said, sir, what do youmean by that?
And he said well, you're notthe right leader for the
organization You're going to dohorribly.
I asked him well, that meansyou're firing me, right?
And he said no, I'm stuck withyou.
(05:09):
And then he sent me out of theroom and I went home and I
talked to my wife and we thoughtabout it and we prayed about it
and really the tide that was tobe cut at that moment was I had
an opportunity to be the typeof leader that my team needed.
Before he fired me, I didn'tknow whether he was going to
fire me soon and really thatmeant my career was over, but I
could focus on being the righttype of leader that they needed.
Being selfless in my leadershipand during the next two years
of his toxicity, but myrepetition in selfless
(05:33):
leadership, it created in me theright type of leadership
philosophy that I've carriedwith me ever since.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I mean and maybe in that, so this actually I don't
usually ask this question thisway, but I think it'll be
important here how did youdefine success before that?
And then, how did you definesuccess after that?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
going to help me springboard to the next position
.
That's selfish.
And then there was a little bitbefore that of how can I help
the people on my team become thebest possible word of
themselves.
But the good thing about whathe did not because this was his
intent, but because it was theresult was that I realized that
likely my career was over andnow I could fully focus not on
myself and my own promotion buton the betterment of the team.
(06:27):
And now I call it lethal weaponleadership to some extent, if
you go back to that series ofmovies Lethal Weapon and Mel
Gibson and Danny Glover and Ithink Mel Gibson's character was
Detective Riggs and he wasreckless but he had kind of
given up on life and was veryefficient at getting the job
done because he didn't careabout himself.
(06:47):
And I think leaders in ourcommunity or society could do a
lot better job in making alasting, sustainable impact If
they set themselves aside, theycut that tie of selfishness and
they move on, and not a recklessway but a selfless way, so that
they can make an impact on thepeople in the organization
(07:08):
they've been entrusted with.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I a hundred percent agree If, if, if people focused
on the outcome and less so theirlegacy in it, I think we all
move faster further, becausethen you're doing your part
without you know, with, with analtruistic mindset as opposed to
me, me, me and it's hard, Imean, we all struggle with it
every day, but you're doing anacting and that's how you've
turned it around with it.
(07:30):
And if you really describe, isthat the moment, though, where
you knew, was it with your wife,when you were praying and
you're like I'm gonna becomethis, or was there another
moment later that made it makesense, like the aha moment?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
No, I think that was the aha moment.
I went to bed, I was a littledistraught, I was thinking that
this very promising career wasover.
And then I woke up in themorning with this piece that I
have an opportunity now becausenone of it is to be about me to
do right as a leader.
And you know, I'd grown upwatching leaders and I'd seen
far too many of them becometoxic or become selfish and not
(08:05):
care for their team.
And I woke up and I realizedthis was an opportunity for
however long that I had.
And you know, the amazing thing, thomas, is this that I
actually got promoted early toFulberg Colonel out of that
position, not because he changedhis mind, but because the
organization did so well as aresult of that type of
leadership that I don't thinkanybody could deny that things
(08:28):
were working based on thatclimate and culture.
And so the aha moment waswaking up the next morning with
a piece about it and thesituation and going into work
and getting the reps in for thenext two years.
That it's never about me, it'sall about them.
And the organization and theindividuals in the organization
thrived as a result.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Surprised me a story During my small time as a
contractor.
I got a coin from a three-starover DISA.
So you know, the Department ofInformation Security, whatever,
the they run like theinfrastructure of whatever.
So you probably know more thanI do.
All I knew was I was out of myelement and the general's coming
(09:09):
by each little booth.
I'm thinking, oh, this is dogand pony, there's all these
cameras, his people, his hand,whatever.
And he comes at the boothbehind it, beside us, and this
guy tells him what he does.
And the guy's just an arrogant.
We didn't need this crap.
This is the stuff.
I'm like oh God, this is legit.
Like this guy's likelegitimately evaluate, he does
(09:31):
ours.
Hey, our team built somethingfor your warfighter to help you
get, you know, tacticaladministration of the grid.
While a deer I'm giving you asummary he's like how'd you guys
do that?
I was like well, that guy, I go.
He built it.
I go, I'm the mouthpiece.
I don't ask him.
He gave me a coin.
I had no idea what this was andI was like hey, Jeff, my
(09:52):
teammate, this is yours.
And he was like and he was fromAir Force.
And he was like are you kiddingme?
You're giving me this.
I was like what do you mean?
He's like are you kidding me?
You're giving me this.
I was like what do you mean?
He's like you have no idea whathe just gave me and he and it's
like I can go to almost any barnow.
It's like except for apresidential coin, there's not a
very many that you're higherthan this corn.
I remember that.
(10:13):
And he, I, it was like I, I waslike, truly like, in that
moment, Um, I had a moment youdescribed me.
I was like I didn't care aboutwhat I thought.
I was like this is the guy thatbuilt it and this general loved
it.
He was just too afraid to talk.
That was funny, I think.
My point being is, if morepeople were selfless like you
just described, becausedownstream from that, the teams
rocked it for the next, like forthe rest of the time I was
(10:34):
there because because they wereappreciated and they were felt,
and I also didn't care about mycareer at that point as well.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Well, thomas, I think commendable on you for
realizing that hey, let medeflect the credit to somebody
that maybe more often deservesit.
You know, often leaders aretold own the blame and share the
credit, but they do the reverse.
And you did exactly what youshould do, which is deflect the
praise and the credit tosomebody else.
And when you create that atscale in an organization, then
(11:05):
now it becomes a magnificentmultiplier of effectiveness of
that organization and the peoplethat grow up in that
organization.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
So I think you're.
I want to.
I always try to extract alesson for listeners out of some
of the stuff I think.
When people think of theircareer, they think in so much in
terms of me, me, me.
That ends up not where theywanted to go and as soon as they
pivot to, I'm just going tomake my teams awesome and
everyone around me.
This selfless behavior is theway to get the career that you
want, because you didn't evenhave a good boss ahead of you to
(11:35):
help you pull you up, but theorganization felt it and they
had to reward and I think yourown self-sufficient sense of
worth, fair enough to say, feltmuch better doing that every day
than showing up wondering, well, I'm going to get promoted, I'm
going to get something.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
No, you're right, Thomas, and I think it was
Ronald Reagan that saidsomething like it's amazing how
much you can get done if youdon't care who gets the credit.
And I don't know why.
I've kept stumbling across thisimportant truth multiple times
(12:11):
in my own leadership study.
But the idea is that if all ofus add value oversized value to
our community or society ororganization, then it's super
good for society.
But guess what?
It also is good for you too,because people are going to know
hey, this guy or this gal givesvalue, adds value, provides
selfless leadership, and whenyou do that, you now become in
demand.
But, more importantly, yourteam, its talent and its skill
(12:31):
set is unlocked in a way thatnever would have happened
otherwise.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
You know who else used to talk about this.
A lot was Jesus.
So you talk about prayer and wego down and listen and a lot of
people who are entrepreneursand people who are out there
trying to make it, they have alot of faith base and you said
you prayed around that and ifyou backed up a few years ago
before I kind of started a faithjourney, I would have just kind
of dismissed that as, whateverI get that because that's truly
(12:56):
some of the teachings from theBible is to be selfless, lead
without resolve yourself, haveeffect on as many as you can in
a positive way, even at cost ofyour own life, and I think
that's what you just applied.
Some teachings, and maybe youcould talk about that a bit too,
of where that?
Is that a part of gratefulness,or where does that come from?
(13:17):
From a core for you?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Well, thomas, to me it goes back to the world's best
leadership book, which is theHoly Bible.
And you watch the example ofJesus very specifically spelled
out in Matthew, chapter 20,where if you're great or you're
chief, then your responsibilityis to minister and to serve.
And if you look at thestewardship of our lives, the
(13:43):
ability to truly make amulti-generational, lasting
impact, then the only way thatwe can do that effectively is to
follow those principles thatare biblical, and Jesus shows
them perfectly by pouringourselves into other and raising
them up to become the bestpossible version themselves.
And if you set your ownprerogatives aside to do that,
like he did so brilliantly, thennow you see that investment in
(14:05):
others bear fruit in alldifferent sorts of ways.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Love it.
For the purposes of what's thiscalled For a short clip, so we
have it.
Give me the lesson for thelistener.
What is your one piece ofadvice if a listener they're
locked in.
They want to hear it.
What is your one piece ofadvice if a listener is they're
locked in.
They want to hear it?
What are you going to tell them?
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Set yourself aside and add value to the people who
are around you, to yourcommunity, to your organization,
because when you do so, itgives a massive boost to the
environment in which you liveand work, and you'll become the
guy or the gal that people aregoing to tap on the shoulder and
(14:44):
want to be a part of their team, because they know that you are
there to add value to othersand not yourself.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, what are you going to be remembered for?
And I think you'd rather beremembered for giving to a
community and those around youthan how much money you had or
how many trips you took orwhatever.
Whatever the selfish thingsthat you know, because that's
beautiful Rapid fire for you.
What is the best businessadvice you've ever received?
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Herb Keller was the founder of Southwest Airlines
and he said you can tell thevalue of an organization, the
values of an organization, bylooking at two things their
calendar and their checkbook.
How they spend their time, howthey spend their money is a true
reflection of their values, notjust what they write on a wall
and put up as a missionstatement.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
I, like you, practiced that.
Who gives you inspiration?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
My family.
We call ourselves Team Tigard.
I've got an incredible wifewho's a chemistry professor at
the Naval Academy, three greatkids, two of which are serving
our country, one of which plansto, and I just love serving my
country and people around ustogether as a part of that five
ship that we call Team Tigard.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
One of our good friends, their daughter, just
got in the naval caddy.
She starts in the you know soon, obviously in the fall, so she
could be a chemist.
She's on that path.
She's probably going to runinto your wife.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Well, you know, my wife teaches plead chemistry,
freshman chemistry next year,first semester.
So maybe she'll be in my wife'sclass.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
We'll take that offline, I will.
I will see if that happens andyou can be like, how's she doing
?
I'm like, yeah, I talked to herchemistry teacher and, uh, her
husband's upset with you, um,what's the what?
What is your?
You know, the must read book.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
The Holy Bible we talked about it earlier Thomas.
All of the life's lessons, allleadership lessons are contained
in that book.
I do like to give a secularanalog, if you will, my favorite
secular leadership book, whichis American generalship, which
goes through four-star generalssince World War II.
Each chapter is a differentcharacteristic and how that
characteristic was embodied bythose leaders.
(16:47):
The subtitle is Character isEverything, by the way, which is
a great example of what thatbook's worldview is all about.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I love it.
You know about what are thechallenges, and those are rapid
fire.
We have a little time here.
I've struggled with how tofunctionally read the Bible
because they are different.
They're basically sub bookswithin the stories.
How do you recommend somebodywho's really never read the
Bible?
With the idea of leadership inmind, how would you approach
reading?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
it.
Thomas.
I'm actually doing a study thisyear where I'm, during my
morning devotions looking atleaders and deep diving about
those biblical leadersthroughout the Bible and I've
gone through Daniel and I'vegone through Joseph and I've
gone through Esther and I'vegone through Rahab and I think
if you take a look at any onlinetool and say I want to learn
(17:34):
about X leader in the Bible,where the verses or the chapters
that can take me there, then Ithink that's a great example and
of course, jesus is the primeexample of all of that about how
we can take those real,time-tested principles and apply
them to our lives by looking atthe individual examples of
individual biblical leaders.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
You know, I look back on, like you know, humans
around about 100,000 or so years, the kind of the state we're in
.
Maybe I'm off the math, butit's not a long time, and to me
it's amazing how fast.
Like you know, that meansbasically we've had 5,000
patriarchs, grandfathers, if youwill, and only like two have
probably interacted withtechnology.
Just look, you will.
(18:15):
And only two have probablyinteracted with technology.
Right, and if we look at howwell and how fast we dismiss
thousands of years of peoplestudying, let's say, meditation
or mindfulness or Buddhism oreven religion, how quick people
dismiss that as whatever people,the old, but they didn't have
all this tech to distract them.
That's what they did for hours.
And I think people really needto look sometimes backwards to
see what mattered, because we'renot that much smarter if not,
(18:37):
we might even be dumber than wewere back then because people
read, they studied, theyinteracted, they conversed.
They also had to worry aboutgetting murdered more often.
But anyway, the point being is,I think that's a great place to
start, just because myperspective here, as I've gotten
older, is like, wow, thosepeople really had to think a lot
and they had a lot of thinkersaround them that talk, and
that's how they transferred theknowledge, because books were
rare, anyway.
So I don't have a question withthat, except I think that's a
(19:00):
great story.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
No, I've actually got a follow on to that, if you
don't mind.
No, of course not.
I think there are twofundamental elements in human
nature that everybody is lookingfor they want to be loved or
cared for and they want to bepart of something greater than
themselves.
And as I study leadershipthroughout history, all the way
back to thousands of years ago,the good leaders tap into
(19:25):
showing how they care for peopleand how they connect people
with something greater thanthemselves.
And whether that's ancientGreece or biblical times, or our
founding as a nation, orpresent day, it's not about
technology.
Those are leadership tactics.
It is about finding a way tofulfill those two innate human
needs of the human condition.
And if we do that well bystudying leaders of the past,
(19:46):
then it makes us more effectivetoday.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
You're 100% agree with that, and it's actually
that data is supported by bluezones in the world.
They have high community andthey have high sense of purpose
and which, which is a form oflove, right Of like hey, I serve
others and if you look at bluezones, there's nothing else that
there, there's no like, there'snothing to say.
The same foods, and it's that.
Those are the two factors thatare zones in the world.
(20:10):
That single data, well, thosetwo data points.
I think that's amazing.
All right, if you could go backin time and do anything
different, what?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
point of time would you go to and what would you do
differently?
Thomas, I would go back to thestart of college.
I think in the first 10 to 15years of my adult life I was way
too focused on heads down inthe trenches being really good
as a tactical expert.
But I think you can be bettereven as a tactical expert by
lifting your head up more oftenthan I did, looking around and
(20:41):
understanding the context.
I call it, or I've heard itcalled, environmental scanning,
and I think I started thatreally well in the middle of my
mid-30s about being intentionaland looking around.
But I really wish I would havestarted as a 17 year old
freshman at MIT, spending moretime looking up on occasion,
looking around and understandingthe context in which which I
(21:03):
operate.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, that would be.
If we could find a way totransfer wisdom instead of
knowledge to the youth we wouldhave.
We would be wow, we wouldreally advance quickly, but
students for sure.
Final question for you and, bythe way, thank you so much for
coming on.
This is awesome.
If there's a question I shouldhave asked you today that I
didn't, what would that questionhave been and how do you answer
(21:25):
it?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Hey, Thomas, you're a guy who's known for dad jokes
and you didn't ask me about dadjokes and I haven't heard a dad
joke from you.
So I would ask you for dadjokes.
I'll give you a couple if youdon't mind.
You know, I just came back froma Disney cruise and I had a
great conversation with adolphin.
We just clicked.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Or you know what's the best thing about living in
Switzerland, do you know?
I don't, I'm not really sure,but the flag's a big plus, it's
a big plus, yeah, hey so you gotone for me.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
I do.
Well, maybe discreet, butthere's really three types of
people in the world.
There's those that can countand those that cannot.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I love it, thank you, and it's a math joke.
I'm a STEM guy, so that'sperfect.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I was going to throw a little nerdiness in with that,
just the.
You know there are other sidesof jokes I do like, which, like
you know, dark humor is not.
You know, it's kind of likebooed.
Not everyone gets it.
See, he didn't laugh at thatone.
That tells you.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
It's a little dark, a little like dad jokes Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
So if you, but this is my advice to the listener.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Start with one of those two jokes.
If you're going to do a comedyset, and just see who laughs,
you know where to go, where totake it.
By the way, I've found that dadjokes are a leadership
technique.
They're a good leadership tool.
I was forced to dress up as anelf earlier on in my leadership
journey at the Christmas partyof our organization, and I
decided to torture the peoplearound me by telling about three
dozen elf dad jokes throughoutthe night, and I found out that
it really opens up doors andmaybe creates relationships or
vulnerabilities that peoplewouldn't otherwise attribute to
(23:00):
you, and so I actually haveincorporated dad jokes into my
leadership repertoire.
Uh, and you know, once youbecome known as the dad joke
Keller, people give you material, so it's easy to self-sustain.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
We can take that offline.
I'm a huge dad joke groupie.
I'll say it that way.
I'm a groupie.
I am, I'm a groupie.
I watch dad jokes.
I love the pun of it.
It's just anyway.
So shameless plug time for you.
Who should get a hold of youand how do you want them to do?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
that, yeah, thomas.
Johntykertcom is my website.
You can sign on there for afree newsletter.
I'm prolific on LinkedIn and Ido a lot of keynote speaking on
five topics leadership,innovation, national security,
international affairs andadvanced technology.
If there's any of yourlisteners out there that are
interested in hearing somebodyspeak from experience about any
(23:52):
of those, have them reach out tome via my website.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Awesome, John.
Thanks so much for coming ontoday.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
This has been a ton of fun.
Thank you, Thomas.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
And listen anyone who's still here.
I really appreciate you gettingto this point in the show and
if this is the first time you'vebeen here, I hope it's the
first of many If you've beenhere before you.
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