September 4, 2024 • 51 mins
He grew up in St Louis and played a number of sports, except football. Jay Leeuwenburg’s dad wanted to make sure he was coached properly, so he had to wait until high school to hit the gridiron. In the meantime, Jay dealt with a setback: being diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes in middle school.
The diabetes diagnosis meant one thing: how to manage it and play sports. Jay figured it out with the proper nutrition and became stronger… real strong. He excelled on the offensive line at his high school and got noticed by Gary Barnett, who was recruiting for the University of Colorado under Bill McCartney.
Jay took a scholarship at CU and found himself once again making a name for himself on the offensive line as a center. He helped the Buffs win a National Championship in 1990 and was a unanimous First Team All American the following season. There was talk about being a high draft pick, but that ended when he was chosen by the Chiefs in the 9th round of the 1992 draft.
The Chiefs didn’t keep him after training camp his rookie season, but the Bears claimed him off wires and he thrived in Chicago, starting every game from 1993-1995. He was a free agent in 1996 and signed with the Colts and eventually became Peyton Manning’s center. After stops in Cincinnati, Washington and Denver (very briefly), Jay retired and settled in Colorado with his family.
He dabbled in radio and TV and also got his teaching license. He’s been teaching 3rd grade at Colorado Academy now for 23 years.
The diabetes diagnosis meant one thing: how to manage it and play sports. Jay figured it out with the proper nutrition and became stronger… real strong. He excelled on the offensive line at his high school and got noticed by Gary Barnett, who was recruiting for the University of Colorado under Bill McCartney.
Jay took a scholarship at CU and found himself once again making a name for himself on the offensive line as a center. He helped the Buffs win a National Championship in 1990 and was a unanimous First Team All American the following season. There was talk about being a high draft pick, but that ended when he was chosen by the Chiefs in the 9th round of the 1992 draft.
The Chiefs didn’t keep him after training camp his rookie season, but the Bears claimed him off wires and he thrived in Chicago, starting every game from 1993-1995. He was a free agent in 1996 and signed with the Colts and eventually became Peyton Manning’s center. After stops in Cincinnati, Washington and Denver (very briefly), Jay retired and settled in Colorado with his family.
He dabbled in radio and TV and also got his teaching license. He’s been teaching 3rd grade at Colorado Academy now for 23 years.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Snapping all five of the five downs. I think I'm
the only guy that actually said, coach, I don't think
we can do that. That's gonna be fifth down. And
in my mind, Coach MC looks at me and he goes,
I'm the coach, and I coach, you know the player,
and you play. This is what we're doing. It's fascinating
just looking back at the tape and everything that transpired.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to the Cut, Traded, Fired, Retired podcast, which features
conversations with professional athletes and coaches who have gone through
what nearly every athlete or coach goes through cut, traded, fired,
and or they're retired. These sit downs have brought about
some great stories and phenomenal advice. I'm your host, Susie Worgen.
This episode's guest grew up in Saint Louis, Missouri, and
(00:42):
was quite athletic in a lot of sports, except football,
which he didn't start playing until high school, but more
on that in a second. When Jay Lewinberg was in
middle school, he was diagnosed with type one diabetes out
of nowhere. He then had to learn how to manage
his diabetes and be an athlete. So there was that
then came football in high school, in which he was
quite proficient. He had a lot of schools interested in him, However,
(01:05):
many were leary about his diabetes. The University of Colorado
wasn't scared, and thanks to Gary Barnett, who at the
time was a recruiter for Bill McCartney, Jay started a
phenomenal college career as an offensive lineman in Boulder. He
was projected to be a high round draft pick in
nineteen ninety two, but again the diabetes factors seemed to
be a bit much for teams to understand, and he
(01:26):
didn't get drafted until the ninth round, which doesn't exist anymore.
Over the course of almost a decade, Jay played for
the Bears, Colts, Bengals, and then Redskins. He started over
one hundred games and was an All Pro in Chicago.
After retirement, he dabbled in radio and TV and went
back to school to get his teaching license. He's been
a third grade teacher now for twenty three years. Ladies
(01:48):
and Gentlemen, Jay Lewinberg.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Cut Traded Fired Retired podcast with Susie Wargenen.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Jay Lewinberg, it has been a long time since I've
seen you. How are you.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I'm doing really well. And yes, it seems like a lifetime.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Ago, it does. I know it was probably back when
you after you retired from the NFL and you were
doing work at KOA. It's been a very long time.
I did a lot of work with the Mountain West too,
So I think i've seen you in CSU circle somewhere.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yes, exactly. I mean I dabbled in and out of
that and just finally settled down. And I'm a third
grade teacher.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I know we're going to get to that, but we
have to go. The way this works is we go
way back to the very beginning, to your roots, and
then we'll go through your life. So we start in
Saint Louis, Missouri. Right, that's right, So you know corner
raise there, and yep, you're kind.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Of generationally that. You know. I had one house that
I was raised in and I didn't realize how much
I hated the weather in Saint Louis until I came
out here.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, it's something else, isn't it. So you grow up though,
playing three sports at least, right, your football, basketball, and wrestling.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
That's right. And it's interesting that my dad actually was
a very very good athlete all also and he played
college football for Stanford, and he actually played one year
for the Chicago Bears in nineteen sixty five. And he
wouldn't let me play football until I was in high
school because he was afraid the coaches, especially knowing that
I was going to be big and I always have
(03:15):
been big, that wouldn't coach me properly. I almost went
out for soccer my high school year. Saint Louis was
a huge soccer city, and I played kindergarten through eighth grade,
I played soccer and it was the same season.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
So what made your dad change his mind? How did
you get the okay, the green light to play football
in high school?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Oh, he knew the coaches and he knew the school
and so he had no problem in high school that
I'd be coached properly. But an alignment, yeah, there was
really no reason. Just go be an athlete and have fun.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
So you didn't play any peewee or anything nothing. So
how'd you know you're going to be alignment just because
of your size?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
My size? And then I have an older brother and
he's two years in school older than me, and it
was great. I was a freshman. He was a junior
and he was a middle linebacker and I was a center,
and they said, basically, just go run and hit your
brother as hard as you can perfect, and I guess
I was the only guy that was crazy enough to
do it. And I loved it as soon as I
(04:14):
got to do that, and I got rewarded for just
going and trying to knock somebody's block off. I'm like, oh,
this is for.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Me right in particular your brother, and then.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Gosh, yeah, exactly, Yeah, it was. It was great.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
That's so funny. So did they have you start playing center?
Because I know, I mean you played guard, you played
tackle all throughout your career.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I did, And it was interesting that my high school
career really mimicked my pro career. I played center than
tackle than guard in high school and basically that in
the pros too, and then I played some defense also.
It was it was fun. And then the soccer came
through also. I remember we were doing a kickoff drill
(04:54):
and I was just so fed up with the guy
that was kicking the ball off that he couldn't do
it very well. And I'd like, I I said, I
played soccer my whole life. I said, I can do
better than that. And the head coach looks at me,
and you know, I'm just following myself. He goes, oh, yeah, fine,
try it, and I do it, and I kick it
in the end zone and he goes, Okay, you're kicking off.
So I kicked off my entire senior year.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Also, you did Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
The only reason I didn't do the extra point field goals.
I was the only guy that could snap. Oh, so
I did all the I just never left the field
when I was in high school.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
You were just there all the time.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
And I loved, I love loved the game of football,
everything about it. I mean, I think that's why I
was able to be successful. One of the reasons absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So you said, Jay, you were always big, Like did
you have a growth spurt at some point or do
you just come out And you were just always the
biggest kid in every grade.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I was actually never the tallest. And then I was
ten years old when I got diagnosed with diabetes and
I lost about thirty to forty pounds, so it was
a struggle for me to put weight on. So I
was never the heaviest. But being six ' three in
high school, you were still pretty tall. You know, on
the basketball team, I was the center even though I
wasn't you see these guys today, and I really wonder,
(06:06):
Holy cow. I know some of it's got to be
just genetics, but also nutrition. And everybody is so big now.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
They're always bigger, stronger, faster. You bring up the diabetes,
which was huge. Like you said, you lost a lot
of weight and that's how you guys figured it out,
and it was type one diabetes. So explain that and
how that relates to you being an athlete, because you
really had to learn how to redo everything, didn't you.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
I did. I knew that I wanted to do sports.
I was actually on vacation and one of the classic
symptoms is inquenchable thirst. My grandparents lived in Organ, and
so I flew from Saint Louis to Organ every summer
and I drank all the orange juice on the entire airplane,
and I was still thirsty. Then I started getting really sick.
I started hallucinating and vomiting, and I was really really sick,
(06:56):
and so they took me to a hospital in northern
Oregan called st that was the biggest city around that said, well,
he's got diabetes. My dad describes it as old Jay.
When I was sick, the lights were off and then
they gave me my first shot of insulin in the
hospital and they turned the lights back on, and it's like, Aha,
that's it. There's no history in my family. They just
(07:18):
really had no idea.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
So having said that, found a great doctor. My parents
found a great doctor in Saint Louis. And the only
requirement was I need to play sports. So I was
in seventh grade. I had no idea of what was
to come, but I just knew I had to that
that was my identity. That's what brought me joy. And
so we worked together to figure out how can Jay
(07:41):
do it and be safe?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And that was a lot of testing. I know, when
you were in the NFL, you would end up testing
like forty times on a game day, right.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Oh, it was. It was crazy that I would wear
gloves because as a lineman your hands get nicked up
all the time, and then especially as a center, quarterbacks
do not like blood on the ball, so so I
wore gloves, but I would always cut the pinky out
of my glove so I could come over on the sideline.
(08:09):
And it was before there was continuous glucose monitors and
the technology advances have been great, yeah, but at the
time I had to prick my finger, put it on
a little strip and then wait and I would do
that while talking to the offensive line coach in between series.
And so I had to try to figure out where
(08:30):
my blood sugar was to make sure that I would
be able to function optimally athletically. The only way I
knew to do that was every opportunity I could, I
had to take a blood sugar to figure out kind
of where are my trending. It was really really fascinating
for me to just learn that about my body.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
And you must have perfected it because you had it
down obviously I did.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
One of the things that I say that it is true.
The diet that I was on because I was a
Type one diabetic, was low fat, high protein, and good carbohydrates.
So you don't want anything that I can really nerd
out on you and to talk about the glycemic index
and how quickly things get into your bloodstream. But that
was really important to me. I wanted to maintain as
(09:15):
close to steady blood sugar as possible, and that also
helped build my muscle mass, and that helped me eat
a better meal, and you saw my gains in the
weight room, which was so key to my position. And
I was able to stay healthy. I believe I was
above in ahead of the curve. Nutrition really wasn't talked
about very much at all when I was playing.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
No, so you were ahead of the game. Because that happened,
you were able to then redo your whole nutritional plan
and it made you a better player. That made you
wouldn't have had had you not been diagnosed exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
So I've really and that's kind of my whole outlook
on life is how can I change this and make
it a positive? Yea, And I just feel really fortunate.
And the the other reason I think that I was
able to be successful is I was able to stay healthy,
and there's a lot of luck in there. But it's
also how do you train? How do you make sure
that your body's going to be ready for the rigger,
(10:12):
particularly in the NFL, But even in high school, it
was I am going to practice like I am going
to play. That's the only way I can simulate what
my blood sugar's going to do. So I had no
half speed and that really served me well.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So also in high school, I read an interesting story
about a cut you had you stepped on a piece
of glass in parking lot or something, and then.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Well it was actually from athletes' foot. Oh and so
when I get athletes foot, I get a crack in
the bottom of my toe. So there's an open sore
on my foot. And you know, you're sixteen years old,
seventeen years old, you don't think that you're going to
get an infection. No, it's really interesting. Now nobody showers
at the facilities now in high school. Ever, Nope. Back
(10:56):
when I was playing, that's the norm. It was not
the cleanest show the world. So I had this open
sore on my foot. I was relatively newly diagnosed with
diabetes and I got an infection and I didn't think
anything of it until it really started hurting. My mom
took me to the doctor and it had gotten into
my bone. So the only way to treat that was
(11:19):
through intervenous antibiotics, and that was we're six weeks. I
almost failed out of school. So what they ended up
having me do is I was three weeks in the hospital.
You're not going to leave because the diabetes was like
giving little steroids to these critters. That were in my body,
and so they finally I got ahead of it, and
(11:39):
it looks like I would be okay. But then I
was taking AP calculus AP physics and I was not
doing well. So I went to school for those two
classes in particular, they literally had an ivy in my arm.
I went to those two classes. I came home and
we had a nurse come to the house to administer
the drugs to me. And then so after six weeks
(12:03):
the infection was gone. There was the bone in my
foot was going to break because it was so brittle,
and I said, at this point, I have to be
able to go out there and try it, and if
it breaks, it breaks, because I wanted At that point,
I knew I wanted to play at the next level.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Now that's your senior year, right, that's.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
My senior year, And so I was being highly highly recruited.
I would say half the schools just stop recruiting me.
And so I knew that if I wanted to go
to a big time school, I had to get out there.
And thank goodness, my team was good enough that we
made the playoffs. And it's not a name that's very
well known here, but in Missouri there was a guy
(12:41):
named Mario Johnson, I remember forever. So my high school
was the largest division in Missouri, but we played the
Cherry Creek basically of our state, and they had forty
five hundred kids. My high school had fifteen hundred. The
defensive lineman that I was going against fast forward, I
also played against in the pros. So he was really
(13:03):
really good. I had a phenomenal game. I had a great,
great game against him in particular, and that's what got
me recruited by Colorado. Really yeah, So Coach Barnett, Gary Barnett,
and I know this because I talked to him, and
he and I have had a relationship for a while,
besides him being the recruit for that area, but then
(13:24):
him being an assistant and then being the head coach here.
I got a couple inside stories from him. He went
back to coach McCartney, he goes, Yeah, that guy Mario
is really really good, but what about the guy he
was going against? Jay. That's how I ended up getting
on their radar. Coach Barnett came back and convinced coach
back that I was worth a scholarship, and that's how
I ended up in Colorado.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
That is really cool. So with the other schools that
were recruiting you, Jay, did you take other visits elsewhere?
Was it also a visit that helped because a lot
of times you come to Boulder and the guys are like, Okay, yep,
this place is awesome.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Well it's interesting. So I mentioned some of the harder
classes that I was taking in high school. My first
trip was to Vanderbilt. My second trip was to Stanford.
My third trip was here to see you. I really
wanted to go to Stanford. My father went to Stanford,
he played there even then. It was a really, really
great academic school. Well, the story there was it was
(14:19):
actually Jack Elway, so John Sad that was the head coach.
They were actually recruiting me as a linebacker, and they
had me ranked number three. They had two scholarships to give.
Number two on their list it said yes, So they
had one left that were waiting on the number one.
He was going to visit the next week. So I
was ready to go. I said where do I sign
(14:40):
and they said, well, not so fast, and that really
really took me off.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Well, yeah, we got to wait for the other guy
to come in first and see it.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
And then if he says no that. Meanwhile, I come
out here to see you. Mack turned on the charm
and it was just like you said. They literally stopped
you on thirty six off the side of the road
and they show you the beautiful scenery and I.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Was then shocking, Oh my gosh, I.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Mean it and it was perfect. I'd never been to Boulder.
I mean even the flight out, everyone was so nice,
and I just said, this must be a sign that
I should go there.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Didn't take any other ones after that, you go anywhere else.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I was scheduled to go to Iowa, and it's interesting
because we ended up playing both Iowa and Stanford when
I was at CU SO, I canceled with Iowa, and
that was back when Hayden Frye was the coach. I
also knew that I wanted to get out of the Midwest.
I really didn't want to stay in that weather. So
said yes to Colorado and that was one of the
(15:41):
best decisions I've ever.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Made, absolutely well, and you end up winning a national
championship while you're there. In nineteen ninety one, you're the
unanimous first team All American at your position, and you
end up going into their Hall of fame. You did
okay in Boulder.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, I mean, there are enough guys that are still
around from that team. There's a lot of pride in
that kind of era. One just besides that, we were
really really good, but we all played really young. I
remember some of the guys and one of the names
that comes out as a guy named Bill Coleman was
the offensive lineman, a Colorado guy, And I also remember
(16:16):
back then it was Kurt Koke, who was a Colorado kid,
and then Don Dluzio was a Colorado kid. You had
a lot of guys locally and they were very vocal
about your class and your players are better than us.
Our job is just to get you ready.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
It was such an amazing being in that same position
as a junior and a senior with these rising young men.
That was really unique. We're there because we love football
and we think we're going to be good, but to
have your senior members of the team tell that nope,
you're going to take us to the next level. That
(16:53):
was really empowering and really powerful.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Oh, I'm sure it was. Yeah. Obviously, the national championship
is going to be one of your best memories. I
would think at CEU. Do you have others of just
the camaraderie or something else that kind of happened during
your time You look back and go, man, that was great.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
There are so many Well, unfortunately one of them is
not great is which was sal Yeah, and that was
that really made me personally grow up. I had no
one in my life that had really died. My grandparents
were alive, my parents were alive, no really close relatives
had ever passed. To be a part of that and
to be that close to him and the way that
(17:30):
it brought the team together was like nothing else I'd
ever experienced.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Sure, and you probably were the only one where it
was the first death that had happened. You guys were
so young then.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Well we all thought we were invincible. Yeah, like everyone
that's in college, and to really put it in that perspective.
So that was very pivotal in my maturation just as
a person. The other big one being from Saint Louis
snapping all five of the five downs was another unbelievable one.
My parents had rented a great health They had about
(18:01):
fifty people there from my hometown. They printed up T
shirts that said Buffalo breeders and they were all wearing them. Wow.
And I think there were three people after the game
when I came out of the locker room when it
was safe, and I'm not kidding. It was insane and
it was. It was crazy. So we score on fifth
down on that last play. The crowd was in shock.
(18:24):
They made us come out for the extra point because
if we would have somehow fumbled and they returned it,
they would have won. So they they only let the
eleven guys on offense come out. We snapped the ball,
kneeled down, and ran as fast as we could off
the field, and we had about fifty cops around us.
It was truly frightening.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I didn't even think about that that you snapped all
five downs.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
I think I'm the only guy that actually said, coach,
I don't think we can do that. That's gonna be
fifth down. And in my mind, Coach MC looks at
me and he goes, I'm the coach, and I coach,
you know the player, and you play. This is what
we're doing. And this was all within oh like a minute,
and it was bang bang bang. It's fascinating just looking
back at the tape and everything that transpired. If you
(19:10):
don't remember we as a as a team all had
tennis shoes on, and they had this the turf was
supposed to it's the same turf that they now put
all the pellets on, but they put sand. So we
slipped the entire game and we never brought another pair
of shoes.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
You didn't have any cleats.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
We had no cleats, so we were all in tennis shoes,
slipping everywhere. Even if we would have known, nobody would
have known to wear those molded cleats which everybody wears
on that turf. Now, we just didn't bring them. And
that was the part that really hurt us in the
ranking is Mac wanted to focus in on how Missouri
had cheated basically and not told us about the field conditions,
(19:50):
and everybody was like, let it go, Like that's not helping.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Us, right, No, we have other problems.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Right. So we'd already tied and we already lost to Illinois,
and then all of a sudden, we have the fifth down.
So at that point we thought, well, maybe we can
win the Big Eight. But there was no way we
were thinking national championship at that time. Right.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
So when you get done with your career at CEU,
you are really on top of everything, because you've been
playing well, they project you to go in early rounds
and then you don't go until the ninth round, which
doesn't even exist anymore. What was draft day like for you?
And I'm assuming you probably heard from teams. You probably
played in some of the bowl games after everything else
(20:32):
was done with.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
That was fun. I got to go to Japan, the
only time I've ever been, so I played in the
Japan Bowl ok in the Tokyo Dome, and that was
a blast. I absolutely love that. But that crystal ball
that you know, if you could have, would have probably
should have gone to the Senior Bowl, but I chose
not to because I was very arrogant at the time
and thought, they've got all this tape on me, and
(20:53):
of course I'm good, they don't need to see me
in person. But again, hindsight is really really powerful. The
fact that even though I talked about how I was
able to use my nutrition and get in the weight room,
I still wasn't really strong. I was fast, but I
was considered undersized. So those things as alignment. And then
the clincher is there were no diabetics in the NFL basically,
(21:17):
and so that is a huge, huge red flag. Now
they're also it's against I don't know which law, but
you can't discriminate. But clearly that was a major major fact.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
It was unchartered territory. They had no idea how to
handle you, right, exactly, yeah, and are you a risk too?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Well, in the other part is even though I was
in high school, it's well, he's got to be more
prone to injury, and every alignment always gets hurt. It's
just how badly and how will he recover? And so
the not correct thought is he's not quite as strong.
He's a really really hard worker. That's smart. That's how
he kind of got through it. He's not that heavy,
(21:57):
and he's probably not gonna heal and he's gonna get
I think we'll pass on him. That's what I have
now come to realize. But the silver lining is it
really motivated me, oh to see eight other centers go
before me in the draft. I was ready to destroy
(22:18):
any and everything, and so I was all business when
it came to training camp, and that was just fine,
and I had a lot to prove.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I bet you did. So the chiefs are the ones
who drafted you, Yet they cut you, do they cut
you in training camp or when the season has started.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
It was the final final cuts that they have to
get down to declare to the fifty three, and back
then it was forty five, so they had to get
down to the forty five. But then if you had
an injured veteran, they had to be on the forty five.
Then they could go on the four to six week
injured reserve and they could kind of play with their
(22:54):
roster that way. Because I was a ninth rounder and
they cut me on Monday rather than on the Tuesday,
and they actually didn't tell me. They being the chiefs Chicago,
talk about small worlds. The general manager for Chicago's son
was Duke Tobin, who was the third string quarterback here.
(23:14):
So Dad had been to see you games. So he
knew me from CEU and he picking up off the
waiver wire.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
He recognized the name and.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
And he saw me on tape and he said, this
kid's good. And so they had drafted another guy from
Notre Dame who didn't play as well as they thought,
they brought me in. I actually did the long snapping
and I was the backup line my first year there.
But I'm convinced had I not had his son on
the team, he probably wouldn't have seen me.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
No, because it is all about who you know, who
knows you, and that coaching circle gets so very tight,
and so if somebody can say, oh, hey, by the way,
this guy and they're like, oh okay. Because there's so many,
so many names, so many guys, there's too many you
can't keep up on all of them. That is really
a cool story, Jay, And the fact they got rid
of you on the Monday gave them then the chance
(24:03):
because it is kind of a game who starts releasing
players first, because then all the chess moves start. People
start figuring out their rosters and who they can cut,
who they can't cut, and bringing guys in.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Well, so I went guy named Carl Peterson, he used
to be their president. I get called up to his
office and he goes, I have good news and I
have bad news. The good news is you made the NFL.
The bad news is it's not with us. And he
hands me on a plane ticket and say you're going to Chicago.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Oh geez. And that was crazy, And that was back
in the day before we had the internet. And so
you actually got a plane ticket handed to you.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Oh, I did for sure.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It wasn't on your phone, It wasn't anything. Some one
of the assistants had to get that together. And yeah,
they do it for you. So you go to Chicago.
You don't start every game that year, but then the
next three years, I believe, right ninety three to ninety
four ninety five, you start every game.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
I do. And I was also doing the long snapping again.
Really interesting. So they're are left tackle my second year.
So first of all, my rookie year, Mike Dicktt was
the head coach. We went five and eleven, and then
he gets fired. Then they bring in Dave Wanstead, and
who brought in the offensive line coach got named Tony
Wise from Dallas, and Dallas was in their heyday. They
(25:13):
just won the Super Bowl, and so the defensive coordinator,
Dave Wanstead.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Was the hot commodity, the hot guy.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Right and everybody wanted him. So our left tackle in
preseason gets hurt. I was competing with a third round
draft pick out of Kentucky for right guard to play
that position I had played, and I think it was
twelve games my rookie year. Because they knew that their
guards were getting older and we weren't doing well, so
they wanted to give me some time, and so I
(25:40):
felt really confident and I felt really good about my chances. Well,
the left tackle gets hurt, and it was almost identical
to what I was just telling you that, Carl Peterson said.
The offensive line coach Tony Wise calls me and he goes, well,
here's here's the good news. I told you that you're
in this battle for right guard, and we had to
make the decision. Well, the good news you're going to start.
(26:01):
And so I thought ed won the right guard battle.
And he goes, but it's not going to be at
right guard. He goes, we want you to play left tackle.
And so my first start in the NFL was at
left tackle against Lawrence Taylor. You can't make it up.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
It's against LT.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Wow, Had you played that position at CU?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
No? I only played center at CU.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Oh my gosh. Never subbed into any of the other positions.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
No, and I played guard the year before, but I
never played tackle.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
And then you go to the other side of the
quarterback as well, which then changes everything. Do you stay
there then all three years?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
No? So I played the first six games at left tackle.
Then our left tackle gets healthy. But then they said,
you know, you've been playing really well at left tackle.
Our right tackle has not been doing very well, so
they moved me. The last ten games of that season,
I played right tackle.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Wow. I think offensive lineman, you have to know, a
lot of defensive lineman tend to be some of the
brightest ones that are out there because you have to
know so much about what's going on. You're almost an
extension of the quarterback. The quarterback obviously knows every single
thing that's happening, but your lineman. And then to be
able to kind of flip around and I mean, you're
talking about taking ap calculus and things. Obviously you've got
the brains to do that. But what was it like, though,
(27:18):
trying to wrap your head around switching over to different
parts of the line to the layman, How hard is that?
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Well? I was just happy to play. I was so
excited that and I was doing well. It wasn't like
I was floundering. So I really presented a good product
on the field for me personally, and that gave me
the opportunity. I didn't realize until you start actually vocalizing
it and you're out of the moment. How insane. It was, Yeah, then, okay,
(27:48):
you've got a week to get ready to play a
position you've never played before and you're going against a
Hall of famer.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
That's absolutely insane.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Then my first start at right tackle was against Reggie White.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Dude, geez.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
So that was again I'm like, what are you gonna do?
Say no, you just go out and do it.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
It's like going against your brother.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Right, that's right, It's like, all right, bring it on.
So that was really really quite an amazing run and
then just great great fans in Oh. Yeah, it's just
so much fun for me, so much joy that I
just remember from that entire time, and again, a lot
of the veterans on that team really helped me along
(28:28):
and embraced me and made me have my nice little bubble,
my nice little protective cocoon. I'm sure that in this
day and age, there would be plenty of haters out
there about what is this guy doing, he's undersized, he's YadA, YadA, YadA.
But I didn't have any of that. All I had was, no,
(28:48):
you're good enough, I'll help you. I've gone against this
guy or this guy. Here's what he does, Here's how
you watch film here's so all of that was really
really amazing for me and support, yeah, and just how
do you become a pro? And that was really what
kept me able to stay in the league for so long.
(29:09):
So then after playing tackle both right and left, then
I finally played guard and so that was my second
or I guess my third and my fourth year, I
was the starting right guard.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Okay, so then after your fourth year, so after the
ninety five season, you leave the Bears and it was the.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Very first year of free agency. Oh so I was
the first class that became free agents after their fourth year.
And that was a wild West too. Nobody knew how
that was going to change things. Again, I was super
super fortunate because Bill's hovin the GM had gotten fired
(29:45):
from Chicago and guess what he was in Indianapolish so
he still liked me from Chicago signed me to a
free agency deal with the Indianapolis Colts. He had also
brought several other players from Chicago to Indianapolis, the biggest
one being Jim Harbaugh. So Harball was my quarterback in
(30:08):
Chicago and then he ended up being quarterback in Indianapolis
before So my third year Indianapolis was terrible. We were
three and thirteen and we drafted Peyton Manning. So I
was Peyton Manning's center for his rookie year in Indianapolis.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Oh I didn't know that. Yeah, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
So again it's just all these things. You can't write
for me a better script. The only thing that could
have made it better is if I would have gone
to the Super Bowl, which I never did.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I know you did not. You were there too early
in all of those That's right.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Because right obviously Peyton then goes on to win the
same thing, by the way, in two thousand, will jump ahead,
because again I'll sit here and I'll see I've got
a story for everything, by the way.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah, well okay, well hold on. Then, So from the
Colts you stay there for you got three seasons there there,
you're there for Peyton's season. Then you go to the Bengals.
So did you get cut from.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I got cut and that was I was on the
last year of my four year deal even back then.
So they just throw a big number on the back
of year contract. Yes, and so I was. I think
I was scheduled. And it sounds crazy that it was
this much, which is nothing now, big money. Then I
was scheduled to make I think it was one point
five million dollars, which was too expensive, right, and now
(31:26):
backups are making what three four million dollars? And there
happened to be a center behind me named Jeff Saturday
who ended up being pretty good. Yes, And so I
was too old. So I was in my seventh and
eighth year, and then Peyton was a rookie. I wasn't
going to be there long term, and they wanted the
team around Peyton, and that made a lot of sense.
(31:49):
So I was cut and I was scrambl by. I
needed to find a team that wanted a veteran lineman.
And I was in the NFL seven years. You're looking
like you're getting a little long in the two to
a lot of these teams. I had not made a
Pro Bowl, like you said, I'd been on teams that
were not very good. So I was scrambling to find
a team at the last minute that really wanted somebody.
(32:10):
And so I ended up with Cincinnati, signed a one
year contract because I knew that in my heart that
was not where I wanted to end up. And I'm
glad I did that. And guess what we went three
and thirteen.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Were you center there as well or did you play
I played right guard red guard there. Okay, And there's
your quarterback in Cincy.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Achille Smith.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
No kidding.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
He was the first rounder that ended up not doing
very well. But Corey Dllon was our running back That
very next year is when he broke the rushing record
against Denver. He was that was all ridiculous. He was special.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, okay, So you say you're one year with Cincinnati,
then the following year you're with Washington.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
And small worlds. Have I mentioned that it's kind of
cyclical in a small round. Yeah, that and everybody kind
of knows everybody. Prime was my teammate.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Oh my gosh, Wow, nicest.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Gracious teammate ever. He was not Prime in the locker room.
He was Prime on TV and with the interviews, but
he was just one of the guys in the locker room.
We were loaded talk about kind of like the comment
about Peyton and just had to wait. So we had
Brad Johnson who then as our quarterback, then next year
goes to Tampa and wins the Super Bowl. We also
(33:29):
have well, Michael Westbrook was on the teams as a
receiver and I very rarely had to see you connection
on any of my teams, so that was fun. I
really enjoyed spending some time getting to know him better.
But we ended up eight and eight. North Turner was
the coach. Another Dallas guy gets fired, and so then
we didn't end up going to the team right didn't
didn't get made the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
So do you get waived then or cut from Washington
or had you only signed a one year deal there
as well?
Speaker 1 (33:55):
I'm glad that we have some time, so I've got
to here's another story.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Okay, I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
I actually signed a two year deal, but I had
in my contract I was not signed to starter money.
They had a guy named Trey Johnson who was a
phenomenal athlete and perennial Pro Bowl right guard, and so
I was going to be the backup. They knew that
I'd played tackle, they had played guard, I can play center.
I had played center, so I was able to fill
(34:22):
in anywhere. The very first game of the season, Trey
Johnson blows his knee out, completely tears his ACL. He's
gone for the season. So I ended up starting fifteen
games for Washington, and I had in my contract that
if I had played more than fifty percent of the
offensive plays. Besides getting a nice boost incentive in my contract,
(34:43):
it voided my second year because my second year was
not going to pay me starter money. So I had
already planned, Okay, if I'm going to be playing, then
you need to pay me. That ended up biting me
in the ass that because the head coach was fired,
I had avoided my contract. Oh and so the new
coach comes in and I went, Okay, well, I'm going
(35:04):
to be the starter, right and he goes, Nope, new coach,
I am going to make it to where everybody has
to prove themselves all over. And I was in my
tenth year and I go, oh, man, I don't want
to do that. No, I want to get back to Colorado.
So I came to Colorado and tried it for the Broncos.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Okay, so you try for the Broncos. Then that is
two thousand and one.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yes, So Shanahan's I'm.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Still here, Yes, And what happens in Colorado.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Legendary and unfortunately has passed. But Alex Gibbs was the
offensive line coach. He had retired. It was a guy
named Rick Dennison that was the offensive line coach for Bronco.
That's right. I knew from before from my agents. That
doesn't matter why. But Alex Gibbs just didn't like my game.
He didn't think that I would be a good Bronco.
(35:51):
I wouldn't fit. So every time I was a free agent,
I made sure that my agent called Denver because I
always always wanted to get back here. So Alex had retired.
Now I have my shot, exactly, and it was working.
I'm like, everything's lining up, and like I said, in
the good way, things had happened and been really positive
for me. Fast forward to the week before the end
of training camp and Alex Gibbs decides he doesn't want
(36:14):
to be retired anymore. Oh no, so he comes back.
And this is my interpretation, this is he didn't physically
say these words, but when he walked into the room
and I'm there, I just kind of get this funny look, like, huh,
why is that guy in here? Right? Exactly, I didn't.
I already told him for six years. I didn't like him,
(36:37):
Oh no. And it wasn't a personal thing. It was
it was just a business decision, right, And so so
I get cut and I knew that I was lucky.
I was healthy. I think almost every player says that
they had the opportunity to play somewhere else. Nobody wants
it to be over, and especially if you're healthy. But
at that time, I had two small children. My oldest,
(36:59):
who is now twenty nine, was starting kindergarten. I had
enrolled her in the school that I'm currently teaching at,
so she started going to Colorado Academy as a kindergartener
because I thought I'd made the Broncos. Then I get
cut and I decide, well, I don't want to continue
because I'm healthy and I'm doing fine financially, and I
(37:21):
need to move on. Go back to school for a year,
get my teaching certificate license, apply for a third and
a fourth grade job at Colorado Academy. And I got
a third grade teaching job.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
And you're still teaching third grade. I am Colley, So
twenty three years. Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
It is. It's just been awesome. One of the things
that I really like that fits me is the NFL.
I said, fed my wallet and teaching feeds my soul.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Oh, because you can't get what you get on the
field anywhere else. Doesn't that what you do, it will
never There is nothing that can replicate that.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
No running out on a field. We've got seventy eighty
thousand fans that are just fanatical. I do believe Denver
has some of the best fans, but they're not the
only city that has some crazy fans that love their teams.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
That bunch.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah, I mean think about Kansas City where I was drafted, Chicagoo,
and then Denver. I mean, those are three of the
top top teams that always have amazing fan bands.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Absolutely wow. And then you teach, you teach their great
You don't teach pe, which people probably just assume, Oh,
you're a pe teacher, right, you played football.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
That's right. And the other part that was hilarious is
everyone assumed that the school would have a football team
because I was hired. That they don't actually have a
football team.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
They never have. I don't think they ever have. Oh
my gosh, that's funny. So when you do retire from
the NFL, you not only get your teaching certificate, but
you also dabble in some radio and TV. You do
some stuff for KOA, your color analysts for football and basketball,
and then you do TV. Did you like doing the media.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
I loved it. I was very very fortunate that I
got to work with Larry Zimmer for two years. Talk
about a fan of the game. He broadcasts the games
that I played it then to be able to work
with him and get to know him as a person.
I'm actually an adult now.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
That I'm not a kid anymore playing this game.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Exactly, and I know that was a fun thing for
him also. And part of the duties that I had
was I had to get an assistant coach interview every week,
and so that's when I started building a better and
different relationship with coach Barnett. And so he was the
head coach and so I would be able to talk
to him, and I get to talk to his assistants,
(39:42):
and Brian Cabral, who was assistant when I was there,
was still an assistant at CU, so I still had
some strong connections to the program. There are also players
that were still playing in the league, so that was
also fun, and you get to see some of these
guys that then make it the NFL that I part
of my duties was to go down and interview the
(40:03):
players in the locker. So it was just such a
different experience, but really really enjoyable for me because I
was deeply, deeply still in love with CU in the
fact that I felt I owed them a lot and
I wanted to give back in any way I could.
Having said that, when I then went and started working
for the Mountain, they would not let me do CSU
(40:26):
games because I was a CU grad. Really yeah, I
did Air Force, I did Wyoming, I did UNLV. New
Mexico at the time was in the conference, so I
got to do all the other states right, and then
they later so I was seven years with the Mountain
with the name of the network. Yes that then they
got Boise State in there. So there were some good
(40:48):
teams and then started and there was Utah and there
was at the beginning there was BYU, but then they
left and became an independent for a while there, but
there were some good football being played. It was really
interesting though, that the fact that they just didn't think
that a CSU fan could stomach a CU player.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Well, you probably heard about it sometimes from CSU fans,
and you were on the Mountain. I mean I just
remember watching you a ton when you were on the
Mountain inn a.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Lot I was. And then they also had a studio
here locally. Yeah, it was just right down the street
and that was great. And so again I know that
I've made my bed in certain ways. I didn't want
to uproot my family again. Chronologically for me, I would
go from Indianapolis, then a year in Cincinnati, then a
(41:38):
year in Washington, and then I'm here in Colorado. That
was a lot of moving for my family and my children.
If I wanted to be willing to move wherever to
be in broadcasting at that time in my life, it
wasn't worth it. So I set some parameters which really
hindered me having even the potential because I wasn't a
(41:59):
big enough name recognition just be in alignment in some senses,
it didn't really matter how good I was. I had
to be willing to put in some time and move around,
and I wasn't willing to do that. And so I
was okay with that.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
No, I totally get that. I've had people early on
in my kids say, oh, you're gonna go try and
do ESPN, and I'm like, I've got little kids, like
I don't want to go to Bristol and start over,
and I have no family there and my family's all here,
So you make those I don't want to call them sacrifices,
but you make those choices exactly and you're okay with it.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
So that's and if you're not, then I should have
made it a different decision.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Right, Yeah, absolutely, no, absolutely, okay, So let me ask
you my final question then, Jay, as we've gone through
kind of your ups and downs, and you've had I mean,
you had a great career, but there were times when
you got cut or when you're here in Denver and
Alex Gibbs walks in the room and goes, why why where.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Is my back? I should probably start packing? Now?
Speaker 2 (42:54):
What do you tell people? And you probably deal with
it with third graders too, when there's those down times,
how to kind of to get back up and move forward?
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Well, it's interesting you would assume that there are less
ups and downs being an elementary school teacher, and that's
not the case. It's just different. One of the biggest
things that I truly had to overcome was, Okay, why
is there an ex NFL player that's teaching my kid
at this very prestigious private school. He's not qualified. My
(43:24):
first two or three years, I had every father at
parent teacher conferences and all they want to do is
talk football, but they weren't sure that I could actually teach.
If I would have instantly gone into coaching, or if
I would have done something different, I would have been instantly, Oh,
he's got credibility, he's got I don't need to question
(43:44):
his ability to do that. But it also made me
a better teacher. I had to be accountable one because,
like I said, it was a very high achieving, well
known private school in the area that I better know
my stuff because they don't. I don't care who you are.
They want what's best for their children.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Yeah, and they're paying a lot of money they are.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
And you know what, I appreciated that that. I took
my job very, very seriously, and I still do. But
it made me accountable. It was the hardest thing for me.
You get everything taped in the NFL, every snap of practice.
There were coaches that would lose it if you didn't
make the right step in a walk through. Everything is
(44:25):
just ultra ultra competitive and important, and you always have
this threat of if you don't perform that day that game,
you could be cut. Then I go into education and
I'd go three months without anybody coming in to see
how I'm teaching observing you, right, I'm like, where's the film? Like,
can I go back and look at that lesson? I don't.
(44:47):
I don't think that went as well as it should have.
That that was really really hard for me. I didn't
realize how structured and how intense the NFL was until
I got out of it.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
That was my correction, aren't you instant?
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah? And you never ever have a perfect game, and
so you're always striving for that perfection and you also
have somebody, whether you know it or the coach, tells
you that. All right, Well, so that math lesson Jay
wasn't great. We're going to bring in the other guy
who can do that part better. So you better not
screw it up again. You know how times tables more
(45:22):
exactly that I can joke about it now. But that
took some adjustment.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
I bet it did.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
That. I really needed more feedback, and so I was very,
very fortunate that the administration was really good about making
sure that they want me to be successful also, And
I got into teaching because I love kids.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
I think that's a great perspective for anyone who wants
to make a career change. And I talked to so
many in this podcast about what did you do afterwards?
How do you reinvent yourself going into something, especially if
it's completely opposite of what you currently do. I mean,
I've had my real estate license since twenty thirteen, and
I thought, how are people going to trust me? Because
all I do is, you know, I tell them about
(46:02):
box scores and you know, things like that. Now they're
gonna trust me with the biggest investment in their life.
And it took me a while to get over in
my head that like, Okay, you can do this. You
know what you're doing, and the more you do it,
the better you become and the more confident you become.
But I think anyone wanting to switch over and do
something different is going to have that and that's okay.
It's okay to do that and build it up and
(46:24):
figure out, but don't make that your block. That doesn't
let you, you know, go do that, right.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
You still need to put in the time and you
still need to put in the work and whatever it is. Yeah,
So I was really prepared for that aspect of it.
Teaching is a very demanding job, just differently it's not
physically demanding, but you need to make sure that you
have everything the way it needs to be. The other
part was, there is no way you could have told
(46:52):
me the year before that was going to be a
teacher's I never had that as anything that I thought
I spied to want to be. But I had to
determine I've got the now child that's in first grade,
and then I have another daughter that's going to be
starting kindergarten. I could not, in a good conscience, say
what does your dad do? Oh, he doesn't do anything.
(47:15):
I needed to be a role model for my own children,
and I knew that that would not be good for
my mental health to not do anything that, even if
I could have financially made it work, I couldn't have mentally.
My last story, which was fascinating it's still true, is
I was very, very fortunate that I did a big
national commercial with Jim Harbaugh and Quentin Coriot. Happened to
(47:39):
be for a telephone company, and it took two days
of shooting. I got paid more for that commercial than
I did for the entire year of teaching, and so
just to think about that economic disparity between careers really
made me appreciate how lucky I was that I got
to do something that I loved it do and I
(48:00):
was really well compensated for it, and it allowed me
then to become an elementary school teacher until I could
make some money. I'm still.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
You're still there, that's right, Yeah, yeah, that is cool. Jay.
So what is your advice though? What do you tell
people if people come up to you and say, hey,
you know, how'd you get through some of those times?
Speaker 1 (48:21):
I think that you have to be confident in your
path if you're going to make that decision that you
can't do anything halfway. I don't care if it's an athletically,
professionally personal life that I had to do something that
was going to bring me joy. I said that I
would never play in the NFL just for the paycheck,
and that is one of the reasons why I said,
(48:42):
you know what, I don't want to go play for
somebody else because that would just be me being in
a backup and picking up a paycheck and I wasn't
willing to do that. Passion is important whatever you're in.
It resonates. You can tell if somebody loves what they
do and I don't care, but it is give me
an electrician. But if you're I have to go to
(49:04):
It comes across and nobody wants you to be in
their house to help fix your electricity or your plumbing,
or for me, teach your kid. Nobody wants someone that's
got a negative attitude to teach, especially young children. Same
thing with coaching. If you think about all the great coaches,
yes they're going to be able to hold you accountable,
but all the coaches that I remember also were very
(49:26):
positive you can do this. This is hard. We wouldn't
ask you to do this if we didn't think you could.
And then that's also where some of the fellow teammates
co workers also were there to help bolster you. And
so I see that so much now. I used to
be a high school coach. Also, that is so important,
especially with the social media and especial with the people
(49:47):
that for whatever reason want to try to bring you down.
You need to be able to have that not be
the priority of your life. Do something that you love
and do it to the best of your ability, and
for me personally, that's plenty.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Love it. This was fantastic, Jay, Thank you for the time.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Well, thank you is awesome.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Yeah, are you surprised you asked what this is going
to be like, and here we are an hour later.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
Well, time flies, right.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
It does well. I love talking about football and I
love seeing you. It's been a while, but I really
appreciate the opportunity and it's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
You'll have to thank Tyler Bradon, he's the one who
nominated you to us. I always ask my guy, another
great guy, always awesome. Yeah, another great episode. So all right, Jay,
thank you so much. This is great. I appreciate you
coming in. Thank you, Thank you Jay. New episodes of Cut, Traded, Fired,
Retired I released on Tuesdays. Please follow, download, and like
this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. You can keep
(50:44):
up on new episodes by following on Twitter and Instagram
at ctf our podcast and also on the website ctfurpodcast
dot com. I'm your host, Susie Wargen. To find out
more about me, visit susiewargin dot com. Thanks for listening
to this episode and any other, and until next time,
please be careful, be safe and be kind. Take care
Snapping all five of the five downs. I think I'm
the only guy that actually said, coach, I don't think
we can do that. That's gonna be fifth down. And
in my mind, Coach MC looks at me and he goes,
I'm the coach, and I coach, you know the player,
and you play. This is what we're doing. It's fascinating
just looking back at the tape and everything that transpired.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to the Cut, Traded, Fired, Retired podcast, which features
conversations with professional athletes and coaches who have gone through
what nearly every athlete or coach goes through cut, traded, fired,
and or they're retired. These sit downs have brought about
some great stories and phenomenal advice. I'm your host, Susie Worgen.
This episode's guest grew up in Saint Louis, Missouri, and
(00:42):
was quite athletic in a lot of sports, except football,
which he didn't start playing until high school, but more
on that in a second. When Jay Lewinberg was in
middle school, he was diagnosed with type one diabetes out
of nowhere. He then had to learn how to manage
his diabetes and be an athlete. So there was that
then came football in high school, in which he was
quite proficient. He had a lot of schools interested in him, However,
(01:05):
many were leary about his diabetes. The University of Colorado
wasn't scared, and thanks to Gary Barnett, who at the
time was a recruiter for Bill McCartney, Jay started a
phenomenal college career as an offensive lineman in Boulder. He
was projected to be a high round draft pick in
nineteen ninety two, but again the diabetes factors seemed to
be a bit much for teams to understand, and he
(01:26):
didn't get drafted until the ninth round, which doesn't exist anymore.
Over the course of almost a decade, Jay played for
the Bears, Colts, Bengals, and then Redskins. He started over
one hundred games and was an All Pro in Chicago.
After retirement, he dabbled in radio and TV and went
back to school to get his teaching license. He's been
a third grade teacher now for twenty three years. Ladies
(01:48):
and Gentlemen, Jay Lewinberg.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Cut Traded Fired Retired podcast with Susie Wargenen.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Jay Lewinberg, it has been a long time since I've
seen you. How are you.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I'm doing really well. And yes, it seems like a lifetime.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Ago, it does. I know it was probably back when
you after you retired from the NFL and you were
doing work at KOA. It's been a very long time.
I did a lot of work with the Mountain West too,
So I think i've seen you in CSU circle somewhere.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yes, exactly. I mean I dabbled in and out of
that and just finally settled down. And I'm a third
grade teacher.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I know we're going to get to that, but we
have to go. The way this works is we go
way back to the very beginning, to your roots, and
then we'll go through your life. So we start in
Saint Louis, Missouri. Right, that's right, So you know corner
raise there, and yep, you're kind.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Of generationally that. You know. I had one house that
I was raised in and I didn't realize how much
I hated the weather in Saint Louis until I came
out here.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, it's something else, isn't it. So you grow up though,
playing three sports at least, right, your football, basketball, and wrestling.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
That's right. And it's interesting that my dad actually was
a very very good athlete all also and he played
college football for Stanford, and he actually played one year
for the Chicago Bears in nineteen sixty five. And he
wouldn't let me play football until I was in high
school because he was afraid the coaches, especially knowing that
I was going to be big and I always have
(03:15):
been big, that wouldn't coach me properly. I almost went
out for soccer my high school year. Saint Louis was
a huge soccer city, and I played kindergarten through eighth grade,
I played soccer and it was the same season.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
So what made your dad change his mind? How did
you get the okay, the green light to play football
in high school?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Oh, he knew the coaches and he knew the school
and so he had no problem in high school that
I'd be coached properly. But an alignment, yeah, there was
really no reason. Just go be an athlete and have fun.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
So you didn't play any peewee or anything nothing. So
how'd you know you're going to be alignment just because
of your size?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
My size? And then I have an older brother and
he's two years in school older than me, and it
was great. I was a freshman. He was a junior
and he was a middle linebacker and I was a center,
and they said, basically, just go run and hit your
brother as hard as you can perfect, and I guess
I was the only guy that was crazy enough to
do it. And I loved it as soon as I
(04:14):
got to do that, and I got rewarded for just
going and trying to knock somebody's block off. I'm like, oh,
this is for.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Me right in particular your brother, and then.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Gosh, yeah, exactly, Yeah, it was. It was great.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
That's so funny. So did they have you start playing center?
Because I know, I mean you played guard, you played
tackle all throughout your career.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I did, And it was interesting that my high school
career really mimicked my pro career. I played center than
tackle than guard in high school and basically that in
the pros too, and then I played some defense also.
It was it was fun. And then the soccer came
through also. I remember we were doing a kickoff drill
(04:54):
and I was just so fed up with the guy
that was kicking the ball off that he couldn't do
it very well. And I'd like, I I said, I
played soccer my whole life. I said, I can do
better than that. And the head coach looks at me,
and you know, I'm just following myself. He goes, oh, yeah, fine,
try it, and I do it, and I kick it
in the end zone and he goes, Okay, you're kicking off.
So I kicked off my entire senior year.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Also, you did Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
The only reason I didn't do the extra point field goals.
I was the only guy that could snap. Oh, so
I did all the I just never left the field
when I was in high school.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
You were just there all the time.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
And I loved, I love loved the game of football,
everything about it. I mean, I think that's why I
was able to be successful. One of the reasons absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So you said, Jay, you were always big, Like did
you have a growth spurt at some point or do
you just come out And you were just always the
biggest kid in every grade.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I was actually never the tallest. And then I was
ten years old when I got diagnosed with diabetes and
I lost about thirty to forty pounds, so it was
a struggle for me to put weight on. So I
was never the heaviest. But being six ' three in
high school, you were still pretty tall. You know, on
the basketball team, I was the center even though I
wasn't you see these guys today, and I really wonder,
(06:06):
Holy cow. I know some of it's got to be
just genetics, but also nutrition. And everybody is so big now.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
They're always bigger, stronger, faster. You bring up the diabetes,
which was huge. Like you said, you lost a lot
of weight and that's how you guys figured it out,
and it was type one diabetes. So explain that and
how that relates to you being an athlete, because you
really had to learn how to redo everything, didn't you.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
I did. I knew that I wanted to do sports.
I was actually on vacation and one of the classic
symptoms is inquenchable thirst. My grandparents lived in Organ, and
so I flew from Saint Louis to Organ every summer
and I drank all the orange juice on the entire airplane,
and I was still thirsty. Then I started getting really sick.
I started hallucinating and vomiting, and I was really really sick,
(06:56):
and so they took me to a hospital in northern
Oregan called st that was the biggest city around that said, well,
he's got diabetes. My dad describes it as old Jay.
When I was sick, the lights were off and then
they gave me my first shot of insulin in the
hospital and they turned the lights back on, and it's like, Aha,
that's it. There's no history in my family. They just
(07:18):
really had no idea.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
So having said that, found a great doctor. My parents
found a great doctor in Saint Louis. And the only
requirement was I need to play sports. So I was
in seventh grade. I had no idea of what was
to come, but I just knew I had to that
that was my identity. That's what brought me joy. And
so we worked together to figure out how can Jay
(07:41):
do it and be safe?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And that was a lot of testing. I know, when
you were in the NFL, you would end up testing
like forty times on a game day, right.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Oh, it was. It was crazy that I would wear
gloves because as a lineman your hands get nicked up
all the time, and then especially as a center, quarterbacks
do not like blood on the ball, so so I
wore gloves, but I would always cut the pinky out
of my glove so I could come over on the sideline.
(08:09):
And it was before there was continuous glucose monitors and
the technology advances have been great, yeah, but at the
time I had to prick my finger, put it on
a little strip and then wait and I would do
that while talking to the offensive line coach in between series.
And so I had to try to figure out where
(08:30):
my blood sugar was to make sure that I would
be able to function optimally athletically. The only way I
knew to do that was every opportunity I could, I
had to take a blood sugar to figure out kind
of where are my trending. It was really really fascinating
for me to just learn that about my body.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
And you must have perfected it because you had it
down obviously I did.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
One of the things that I say that it is true.
The diet that I was on because I was a
Type one diabetic, was low fat, high protein, and good carbohydrates.
So you don't want anything that I can really nerd
out on you and to talk about the glycemic index
and how quickly things get into your bloodstream. But that
was really important to me. I wanted to maintain as
(09:15):
close to steady blood sugar as possible, and that also
helped build my muscle mass, and that helped me eat
a better meal, and you saw my gains in the
weight room, which was so key to my position. And
I was able to stay healthy. I believe I was
above in ahead of the curve. Nutrition really wasn't talked
about very much at all when I was playing.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
No, so you were ahead of the game. Because that happened,
you were able to then redo your whole nutritional plan
and it made you a better player. That made you
wouldn't have had had you not been diagnosed exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
So I've really and that's kind of my whole outlook
on life is how can I change this and make
it a positive? Yea, And I just feel really fortunate.
And the the other reason I think that I was
able to be successful is I was able to stay healthy,
and there's a lot of luck in there. But it's
also how do you train? How do you make sure
that your body's going to be ready for the rigger,
(10:12):
particularly in the NFL, But even in high school, it
was I am going to practice like I am going
to play. That's the only way I can simulate what
my blood sugar's going to do. So I had no
half speed and that really served me well.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So also in high school, I read an interesting story
about a cut you had you stepped on a piece
of glass in parking lot or something, and then.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Well it was actually from athletes' foot. Oh and so
when I get athletes foot, I get a crack in
the bottom of my toe. So there's an open sore
on my foot. And you know, you're sixteen years old,
seventeen years old, you don't think that you're going to
get an infection. No, it's really interesting. Now nobody showers
at the facilities now in high school. Ever, Nope. Back
(10:56):
when I was playing, that's the norm. It was not
the cleanest show the world. So I had this open
sore on my foot. I was relatively newly diagnosed with
diabetes and I got an infection and I didn't think
anything of it until it really started hurting. My mom
took me to the doctor and it had gotten into
my bone. So the only way to treat that was
(11:19):
through intervenous antibiotics, and that was we're six weeks. I
almost failed out of school. So what they ended up
having me do is I was three weeks in the hospital.
You're not going to leave because the diabetes was like
giving little steroids to these critters. That were in my body,
and so they finally I got ahead of it, and
(11:39):
it looks like I would be okay. But then I
was taking AP calculus AP physics and I was not
doing well. So I went to school for those two
classes in particular, they literally had an ivy in my arm.
I went to those two classes. I came home and
we had a nurse come to the house to administer
the drugs to me. And then so after six weeks
(12:03):
the infection was gone. There was the bone in my
foot was going to break because it was so brittle,
and I said, at this point, I have to be
able to go out there and try it, and if
it breaks, it breaks, because I wanted At that point,
I knew I wanted to play at the next level.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Now that's your senior year, right, that's.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
My senior year, And so I was being highly highly recruited.
I would say half the schools just stop recruiting me.
And so I knew that if I wanted to go
to a big time school, I had to get out there.
And thank goodness, my team was good enough that we
made the playoffs. And it's not a name that's very
well known here, but in Missouri there was a guy
(12:41):
named Mario Johnson, I remember forever. So my high school
was the largest division in Missouri, but we played the
Cherry Creek basically of our state, and they had forty
five hundred kids. My high school had fifteen hundred. The
defensive lineman that I was going against fast forward, I
also played against in the pros. So he was really
(13:03):
really good. I had a phenomenal game. I had a great,
great game against him in particular, and that's what got
me recruited by Colorado. Really yeah, So Coach Barnett, Gary Barnett,
and I know this because I talked to him, and
he and I have had a relationship for a while,
besides him being the recruit for that area, but then
(13:24):
him being an assistant and then being the head coach here.
I got a couple inside stories from him. He went
back to coach McCartney, he goes, Yeah, that guy Mario
is really really good, but what about the guy he
was going against? Jay. That's how I ended up getting
on their radar. Coach Barnett came back and convinced coach
back that I was worth a scholarship, and that's how
I ended up in Colorado.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
That is really cool. So with the other schools that
were recruiting you, Jay, did you take other visits elsewhere?
Was it also a visit that helped because a lot
of times you come to Boulder and the guys are like, Okay, yep,
this place is awesome.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Well it's interesting. So I mentioned some of the harder
classes that I was taking in high school. My first
trip was to Vanderbilt. My second trip was to Stanford.
My third trip was here to see you. I really
wanted to go to Stanford. My father went to Stanford,
he played there even then. It was a really, really
great academic school. Well, the story there was it was
(14:19):
actually Jack Elway, so John Sad that was the head coach.
They were actually recruiting me as a linebacker, and they
had me ranked number three. They had two scholarships to give.
Number two on their list it said yes, So they
had one left that were waiting on the number one.
He was going to visit the next week. So I
was ready to go. I said where do I sign
(14:40):
and they said, well, not so fast, and that really
really took me off.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Well, yeah, we got to wait for the other guy
to come in first and see it.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
And then if he says no that. Meanwhile, I come
out here to see you. Mack turned on the charm
and it was just like you said. They literally stopped
you on thirty six off the side of the road
and they show you the beautiful scenery and I.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Was then shocking, Oh my gosh, I.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Mean it and it was perfect. I'd never been to Boulder.
I mean even the flight out, everyone was so nice,
and I just said, this must be a sign that
I should go there.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Didn't take any other ones after that, you go anywhere else.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I was scheduled to go to Iowa, and it's interesting
because we ended up playing both Iowa and Stanford when
I was at CU SO, I canceled with Iowa, and
that was back when Hayden Frye was the coach. I
also knew that I wanted to get out of the Midwest.
I really didn't want to stay in that weather. So
said yes to Colorado and that was one of the
(15:41):
best decisions I've ever.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Made, absolutely well, and you end up winning a national
championship while you're there. In nineteen ninety one, you're the
unanimous first team All American at your position, and you
end up going into their Hall of fame. You did
okay in Boulder.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, I mean, there are enough guys that are still
around from that team. There's a lot of pride in
that kind of era. One just besides that, we were
really really good, but we all played really young. I
remember some of the guys and one of the names
that comes out as a guy named Bill Coleman was
the offensive lineman, a Colorado guy, And I also remember
(16:16):
back then it was Kurt Koke, who was a Colorado kid,
and then Don Dluzio was a Colorado kid. You had
a lot of guys locally and they were very vocal
about your class and your players are better than us.
Our job is just to get you ready.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
It was such an amazing being in that same position
as a junior and a senior with these rising young men.
That was really unique. We're there because we love football
and we think we're going to be good, but to
have your senior members of the team tell that nope,
you're going to take us to the next level. That
(16:53):
was really empowering and really powerful.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Oh, I'm sure it was. Yeah. Obviously, the national championship
is going to be one of your best memories. I
would think at CEU. Do you have others of just
the camaraderie or something else that kind of happened during
your time You look back and go, man, that was great.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
There are so many Well, unfortunately one of them is
not great is which was sal Yeah, and that was
that really made me personally grow up. I had no
one in my life that had really died. My grandparents
were alive, my parents were alive, no really close relatives
had ever passed. To be a part of that and
to be that close to him and the way that
(17:30):
it brought the team together was like nothing else I'd
ever experienced.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Sure, and you probably were the only one where it
was the first death that had happened. You guys were
so young then.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Well we all thought we were invincible. Yeah, like everyone
that's in college, and to really put it in that perspective.
So that was very pivotal in my maturation just as
a person. The other big one being from Saint Louis
snapping all five of the five downs was another unbelievable one.
My parents had rented a great health They had about
(18:01):
fifty people there from my hometown. They printed up T
shirts that said Buffalo breeders and they were all wearing them. Wow.
And I think there were three people after the game
when I came out of the locker room when it
was safe, and I'm not kidding. It was insane and
it was. It was crazy. So we score on fifth
down on that last play. The crowd was in shock.
(18:24):
They made us come out for the extra point because
if we would have somehow fumbled and they returned it,
they would have won. So they they only let the
eleven guys on offense come out. We snapped the ball,
kneeled down, and ran as fast as we could off
the field, and we had about fifty cops around us.
It was truly frightening.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I didn't even think about that that you snapped all
five downs.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
I think I'm the only guy that actually said, coach,
I don't think we can do that. That's gonna be
fifth down. And in my mind, Coach MC looks at
me and he goes, I'm the coach, and I coach,
you know the player, and you play. This is what
we're doing. And this was all within oh like a minute,
and it was bang bang bang. It's fascinating just looking
back at the tape and everything that transpired. If you
(19:10):
don't remember we as a as a team all had
tennis shoes on, and they had this the turf was
supposed to it's the same turf that they now put
all the pellets on, but they put sand. So we
slipped the entire game and we never brought another pair
of shoes.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
You didn't have any cleats.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
We had no cleats, so we were all in tennis shoes,
slipping everywhere. Even if we would have known, nobody would
have known to wear those molded cleats which everybody wears
on that turf. Now, we just didn't bring them. And
that was the part that really hurt us in the
ranking is Mac wanted to focus in on how Missouri
had cheated basically and not told us about the field conditions,
(19:50):
and everybody was like, let it go, Like that's not helping.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Us, right, No, we have other problems.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Right. So we'd already tied and we already lost to Illinois,
and then all of a sudden, we have the fifth down.
So at that point we thought, well, maybe we can
win the Big Eight. But there was no way we
were thinking national championship at that time. Right.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
So when you get done with your career at CEU,
you are really on top of everything, because you've been
playing well, they project you to go in early rounds
and then you don't go until the ninth round, which
doesn't even exist anymore. What was draft day like for you?
And I'm assuming you probably heard from teams. You probably
played in some of the bowl games after everything else
(20:32):
was done with.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
That was fun. I got to go to Japan, the
only time I've ever been, so I played in the
Japan Bowl ok in the Tokyo Dome, and that was
a blast. I absolutely love that. But that crystal ball
that you know, if you could have, would have probably
should have gone to the Senior Bowl, but I chose
not to because I was very arrogant at the time
and thought, they've got all this tape on me, and
(20:53):
of course I'm good, they don't need to see me
in person. But again, hindsight is really really powerful. The
fact that even though I talked about how I was
able to use my nutrition and get in the weight room,
I still wasn't really strong. I was fast, but I
was considered undersized. So those things as alignment. And then
the clincher is there were no diabetics in the NFL basically,
(21:17):
and so that is a huge, huge red flag. Now
they're also it's against I don't know which law, but
you can't discriminate. But clearly that was a major major fact.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
It was unchartered territory. They had no idea how to
handle you, right, exactly, yeah, and are you a risk too?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Well, in the other part is even though I was
in high school, it's well, he's got to be more
prone to injury, and every alignment always gets hurt. It's
just how badly and how will he recover? And so
the not correct thought is he's not quite as strong.
He's a really really hard worker. That's smart. That's how
he kind of got through it. He's not that heavy,
(21:57):
and he's probably not gonna heal and he's gonna get
I think we'll pass on him. That's what I have
now come to realize. But the silver lining is it
really motivated me, oh to see eight other centers go
before me in the draft. I was ready to destroy
(22:18):
any and everything, and so I was all business when
it came to training camp, and that was just fine,
and I had a lot to prove.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I bet you did. So the chiefs are the ones
who drafted you, Yet they cut you, do they cut
you in training camp or when the season has started.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
It was the final final cuts that they have to
get down to declare to the fifty three, and back
then it was forty five, so they had to get
down to the forty five. But then if you had
an injured veteran, they had to be on the forty five.
Then they could go on the four to six week
injured reserve and they could kind of play with their
(22:54):
roster that way. Because I was a ninth rounder and
they cut me on Monday rather than on the Tuesday,
and they actually didn't tell me. They being the chiefs Chicago,
talk about small worlds. The general manager for Chicago's son
was Duke Tobin, who was the third string quarterback here.
(23:14):
So Dad had been to see you games. So he
knew me from CEU and he picking up off the
waiver wire.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
He recognized the name and.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
And he saw me on tape and he said, this
kid's good. And so they had drafted another guy from
Notre Dame who didn't play as well as they thought,
they brought me in. I actually did the long snapping
and I was the backup line my first year there.
But I'm convinced had I not had his son on
the team, he probably wouldn't have seen me.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
No, because it is all about who you know, who
knows you, and that coaching circle gets so very tight,
and so if somebody can say, oh, hey, by the way,
this guy and they're like, oh okay. Because there's so many,
so many names, so many guys, there's too many you
can't keep up on all of them. That is really
a cool story, Jay, And the fact they got rid
of you on the Monday gave them then the chance
(24:03):
because it is kind of a game who starts releasing
players first, because then all the chess moves start. People
start figuring out their rosters and who they can cut,
who they can't cut, and bringing guys in.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Well, so I went guy named Carl Peterson, he used
to be their president. I get called up to his
office and he goes, I have good news and I
have bad news. The good news is you made the NFL.
The bad news is it's not with us. And he
hands me on a plane ticket and say you're going to Chicago.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Oh geez. And that was crazy, And that was back
in the day before we had the internet. And so
you actually got a plane ticket handed to you.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Oh, I did for sure.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It wasn't on your phone, It wasn't anything. Some one
of the assistants had to get that together. And yeah,
they do it for you. So you go to Chicago.
You don't start every game that year, but then the
next three years, I believe, right ninety three to ninety
four ninety five, you start every game.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
I do. And I was also doing the long snapping again.
Really interesting. So they're are left tackle my second year.
So first of all, my rookie year, Mike Dicktt was
the head coach. We went five and eleven, and then
he gets fired. Then they bring in Dave Wanstead, and
who brought in the offensive line coach got named Tony
Wise from Dallas, and Dallas was in their heyday. They
(25:13):
just won the Super Bowl, and so the defensive coordinator,
Dave Wanstead.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Was the hot commodity, the hot guy.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Right and everybody wanted him. So our left tackle in
preseason gets hurt. I was competing with a third round
draft pick out of Kentucky for right guard to play
that position I had played, and I think it was
twelve games my rookie year. Because they knew that their
guards were getting older and we weren't doing well, so
they wanted to give me some time, and so I
(25:40):
felt really confident and I felt really good about my chances. Well,
the left tackle gets hurt, and it was almost identical
to what I was just telling you that, Carl Peterson said.
The offensive line coach Tony Wise calls me and he goes, well,
here's here's the good news. I told you that you're
in this battle for right guard, and we had to
make the decision. Well, the good news you're going to start.
(26:01):
And so I thought ed won the right guard battle.
And he goes, but it's not going to be at
right guard. He goes, we want you to play left tackle.
And so my first start in the NFL was at
left tackle against Lawrence Taylor. You can't make it up.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
It's against LT.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Wow, Had you played that position at CU?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
No? I only played center at CU.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Oh my gosh. Never subbed into any of the other positions.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
No, and I played guard the year before, but I
never played tackle.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
And then you go to the other side of the
quarterback as well, which then changes everything. Do you stay
there then all three years?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
No? So I played the first six games at left tackle.
Then our left tackle gets healthy. But then they said,
you know, you've been playing really well at left tackle.
Our right tackle has not been doing very well, so
they moved me. The last ten games of that season,
I played right tackle.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Wow. I think offensive lineman, you have to know, a
lot of defensive lineman tend to be some of the
brightest ones that are out there because you have to
know so much about what's going on. You're almost an
extension of the quarterback. The quarterback obviously knows every single
thing that's happening, but your lineman. And then to be
able to kind of flip around and I mean, you're
talking about taking ap calculus and things. Obviously you've got
the brains to do that. But what was it like, though,
(27:18):
trying to wrap your head around switching over to different
parts of the line to the layman, How hard is that?
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Well? I was just happy to play. I was so
excited that and I was doing well. It wasn't like
I was floundering. So I really presented a good product
on the field for me personally, and that gave me
the opportunity. I didn't realize until you start actually vocalizing
it and you're out of the moment. How insane. It was, Yeah, then, okay,
(27:48):
you've got a week to get ready to play a
position you've never played before and you're going against a
Hall of famer.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
That's absolutely insane.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Then my first start at right tackle was against Reggie White.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Dude, geez.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
So that was again I'm like, what are you gonna do?
Say no, you just go out and do it.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
It's like going against your brother.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Right, that's right, It's like, all right, bring it on.
So that was really really quite an amazing run and
then just great great fans in Oh. Yeah, it's just
so much fun for me, so much joy that I
just remember from that entire time, and again, a lot
of the veterans on that team really helped me along
(28:28):
and embraced me and made me have my nice little bubble,
my nice little protective cocoon. I'm sure that in this
day and age, there would be plenty of haters out
there about what is this guy doing, he's undersized, he's YadA, YadA, YadA.
But I didn't have any of that. All I had was, no,
(28:48):
you're good enough, I'll help you. I've gone against this
guy or this guy. Here's what he does, Here's how
you watch film here's so all of that was really
really amazing for me and support, yeah, and just how
do you become a pro? And that was really what
kept me able to stay in the league for so long.
(29:09):
So then after playing tackle both right and left, then
I finally played guard and so that was my second
or I guess my third and my fourth year, I
was the starting right guard.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Okay, so then after your fourth year, so after the
ninety five season, you leave the Bears and it was the.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Very first year of free agency. Oh so I was
the first class that became free agents after their fourth year.
And that was a wild West too. Nobody knew how
that was going to change things. Again, I was super
super fortunate because Bill's hovin the GM had gotten fired
(29:45):
from Chicago and guess what he was in Indianapolish so
he still liked me from Chicago signed me to a
free agency deal with the Indianapolis Colts. He had also
brought several other players from Chicago to Indianapolis, the biggest
one being Jim Harbaugh. So Harball was my quarterback in
(30:08):
Chicago and then he ended up being quarterback in Indianapolis
before So my third year Indianapolis was terrible. We were
three and thirteen and we drafted Peyton Manning. So I
was Peyton Manning's center for his rookie year in Indianapolis.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Oh I didn't know that. Yeah, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
So again it's just all these things. You can't write
for me a better script. The only thing that could
have made it better is if I would have gone
to the Super Bowl, which I never did.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I know you did not. You were there too early
in all of those That's right.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Because right obviously Peyton then goes on to win the
same thing, by the way, in two thousand, will jump ahead,
because again I'll sit here and I'll see I've got
a story for everything, by the way.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah, well okay, well hold on. Then, So from the
Colts you stay there for you got three seasons there there,
you're there for Peyton's season. Then you go to the Bengals.
So did you get cut from.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I got cut and that was I was on the
last year of my four year deal even back then.
So they just throw a big number on the back
of year contract. Yes, and so I was. I think
I was scheduled. And it sounds crazy that it was
this much, which is nothing now, big money. Then I
was scheduled to make I think it was one point
five million dollars, which was too expensive, right, and now
(31:26):
backups are making what three four million dollars? And there
happened to be a center behind me named Jeff Saturday
who ended up being pretty good. Yes, And so I
was too old. So I was in my seventh and
eighth year, and then Peyton was a rookie. I wasn't
going to be there long term, and they wanted the
team around Peyton, and that made a lot of sense.
(31:49):
So I was cut and I was scrambl by. I
needed to find a team that wanted a veteran lineman.
And I was in the NFL seven years. You're looking
like you're getting a little long in the two to
a lot of these teams. I had not made a
Pro Bowl, like you said, I'd been on teams that
were not very good. So I was scrambling to find
a team at the last minute that really wanted somebody.
(32:10):
And so I ended up with Cincinnati, signed a one
year contract because I knew that in my heart that
was not where I wanted to end up. And I'm
glad I did that. And guess what we went three
and thirteen.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Were you center there as well or did you play
I played right guard red guard there. Okay, And there's
your quarterback in Cincy.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Achille Smith.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
No kidding.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
He was the first rounder that ended up not doing
very well. But Corey Dllon was our running back That
very next year is when he broke the rushing record
against Denver. He was that was all ridiculous. He was special.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, okay, So you say you're one year with Cincinnati,
then the following year you're with Washington.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
And small worlds. Have I mentioned that it's kind of
cyclical in a small round. Yeah, that and everybody kind
of knows everybody. Prime was my teammate.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Oh my gosh, Wow, nicest.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Gracious teammate ever. He was not Prime in the locker room.
He was Prime on TV and with the interviews, but
he was just one of the guys in the locker room.
We were loaded talk about kind of like the comment
about Peyton and just had to wait. So we had
Brad Johnson who then as our quarterback, then next year
goes to Tampa and wins the Super Bowl. We also
(33:29):
have well, Michael Westbrook was on the teams as a
receiver and I very rarely had to see you connection
on any of my teams, so that was fun. I
really enjoyed spending some time getting to know him better.
But we ended up eight and eight. North Turner was
the coach. Another Dallas guy gets fired, and so then
we didn't end up going to the team right didn't
didn't get made the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
So do you get waived then or cut from Washington
or had you only signed a one year deal there
as well?
Speaker 1 (33:55):
I'm glad that we have some time, so I've got
to here's another story.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Okay, I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
I actually signed a two year deal, but I had
in my contract I was not signed to starter money.
They had a guy named Trey Johnson who was a
phenomenal athlete and perennial Pro Bowl right guard, and so
I was going to be the backup. They knew that
I'd played tackle, they had played guard, I can play center.
I had played center, so I was able to fill
(34:22):
in anywhere. The very first game of the season, Trey
Johnson blows his knee out, completely tears his ACL. He's
gone for the season. So I ended up starting fifteen
games for Washington, and I had in my contract that
if I had played more than fifty percent of the
offensive plays. Besides getting a nice boost incentive in my contract,
(34:43):
it voided my second year because my second year was
not going to pay me starter money. So I had
already planned, Okay, if I'm going to be playing, then
you need to pay me. That ended up biting me
in the ass that because the head coach was fired,
I had avoided my contract. Oh and so the new
coach comes in and I went, Okay, well, I'm going
(35:04):
to be the starter, right and he goes, Nope, new coach,
I am going to make it to where everybody has
to prove themselves all over. And I was in my
tenth year and I go, oh, man, I don't want
to do that. No, I want to get back to Colorado.
So I came to Colorado and tried it for the Broncos.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Okay, so you try for the Broncos. Then that is
two thousand and one.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yes, So Shanahan's I'm.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Still here, Yes, And what happens in Colorado.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Legendary and unfortunately has passed. But Alex Gibbs was the
offensive line coach. He had retired. It was a guy
named Rick Dennison that was the offensive line coach for Bronco.
That's right. I knew from before from my agents. That
doesn't matter why. But Alex Gibbs just didn't like my game.
He didn't think that I would be a good Bronco.
(35:51):
I wouldn't fit. So every time I was a free agent,
I made sure that my agent called Denver because I
always always wanted to get back here. So Alex had retired.
Now I have my shot, exactly, and it was working.
I'm like, everything's lining up, and like I said, in
the good way, things had happened and been really positive
for me. Fast forward to the week before the end
of training camp and Alex Gibbs decides he doesn't want
(36:14):
to be retired anymore. Oh no, so he comes back.
And this is my interpretation, this is he didn't physically
say these words, but when he walked into the room
and I'm there, I just kind of get this funny look, like, huh,
why is that guy in here? Right? Exactly, I didn't.
I already told him for six years. I didn't like him,
(36:37):
Oh no. And it wasn't a personal thing. It was
it was just a business decision, right, And so so
I get cut and I knew that I was lucky.
I was healthy. I think almost every player says that
they had the opportunity to play somewhere else. Nobody wants
it to be over, and especially if you're healthy. But
at that time, I had two small children. My oldest,
(36:59):
who is now twenty nine, was starting kindergarten. I had
enrolled her in the school that I'm currently teaching at,
so she started going to Colorado Academy as a kindergartener
because I thought I'd made the Broncos. Then I get
cut and I decide, well, I don't want to continue
because I'm healthy and I'm doing fine financially, and I
(37:21):
need to move on. Go back to school for a year,
get my teaching certificate license, apply for a third and
a fourth grade job at Colorado Academy. And I got
a third grade teaching job.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
And you're still teaching third grade. I am Colley, So
twenty three years. Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
It is. It's just been awesome. One of the things
that I really like that fits me is the NFL.
I said, fed my wallet and teaching feeds my soul.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Oh, because you can't get what you get on the
field anywhere else. Doesn't that what you do, it will
never There is nothing that can replicate that.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
No running out on a field. We've got seventy eighty
thousand fans that are just fanatical. I do believe Denver
has some of the best fans, but they're not the
only city that has some crazy fans that love their teams.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
That bunch.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yeah, I mean think about Kansas City where I was drafted, Chicagoo,
and then Denver. I mean, those are three of the
top top teams that always have amazing fan bands.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Absolutely wow. And then you teach, you teach their great
You don't teach pe, which people probably just assume, Oh,
you're a pe teacher, right, you played football.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
That's right. And the other part that was hilarious is
everyone assumed that the school would have a football team
because I was hired. That they don't actually have a
football team.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
They never have. I don't think they ever have. Oh
my gosh, that's funny. So when you do retire from
the NFL, you not only get your teaching certificate, but
you also dabble in some radio and TV. You do
some stuff for KOA, your color analysts for football and basketball,
and then you do TV. Did you like doing the media.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
I loved it. I was very very fortunate that I
got to work with Larry Zimmer for two years. Talk
about a fan of the game. He broadcasts the games
that I played it then to be able to work
with him and get to know him as a person.
I'm actually an adult now.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
That I'm not a kid anymore playing this game.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Exactly, and I know that was a fun thing for
him also. And part of the duties that I had
was I had to get an assistant coach interview every week,
and so that's when I started building a better and
different relationship with coach Barnett. And so he was the
head coach and so I would be able to talk
to him, and I get to talk to his assistants,
(39:42):
and Brian Cabral, who was assistant when I was there,
was still an assistant at CU, so I still had
some strong connections to the program. There are also players
that were still playing in the league, so that was
also fun, and you get to see some of these
guys that then make it the NFL that I part
of my duties was to go down and interview the
(40:03):
players in the locker. So it was just such a
different experience, but really really enjoyable for me because I
was deeply, deeply still in love with CU in the
fact that I felt I owed them a lot and
I wanted to give back in any way I could.
Having said that, when I then went and started working
for the Mountain, they would not let me do CSU
(40:26):
games because I was a CU grad. Really yeah, I
did Air Force, I did Wyoming, I did UNLV. New
Mexico at the time was in the conference, so I
got to do all the other states right, and then
they later so I was seven years with the Mountain
with the name of the network. Yes that then they
got Boise State in there. So there were some good
(40:48):
teams and then started and there was Utah and there
was at the beginning there was BYU, but then they
left and became an independent for a while there, but
there were some good football being played. It was really
interesting though, that the fact that they just didn't think
that a CSU fan could stomach a CU player.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Well, you probably heard about it sometimes from CSU fans,
and you were on the Mountain. I mean I just
remember watching you a ton when you were on the
Mountain inn a.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Lot I was. And then they also had a studio
here locally. Yeah, it was just right down the street
and that was great. And so again I know that
I've made my bed in certain ways. I didn't want
to uproot my family again. Chronologically for me, I would
go from Indianapolis, then a year in Cincinnati, then a
(41:38):
year in Washington, and then I'm here in Colorado. That
was a lot of moving for my family and my children.
If I wanted to be willing to move wherever to
be in broadcasting at that time in my life, it
wasn't worth it. So I set some parameters which really
hindered me having even the potential because I wasn't a
(41:59):
big enough name recognition just be in alignment in some senses,
it didn't really matter how good I was. I had
to be willing to put in some time and move around,
and I wasn't willing to do that. And so I
was okay with that.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
No, I totally get that. I've had people early on
in my kids say, oh, you're gonna go try and
do ESPN, and I'm like, I've got little kids, like
I don't want to go to Bristol and start over,
and I have no family there and my family's all here,
So you make those I don't want to call them sacrifices,
but you make those choices exactly and you're okay with it.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
So that's and if you're not, then I should have
made it a different decision.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Right, Yeah, absolutely, no, absolutely, okay, So let me ask
you my final question then, Jay, as we've gone through
kind of your ups and downs, and you've had I mean,
you had a great career, but there were times when
you got cut or when you're here in Denver and
Alex Gibbs walks in the room and goes, why why where.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Is my back? I should probably start packing? Now?
Speaker 2 (42:54):
What do you tell people? And you probably deal with
it with third graders too, when there's those down times,
how to kind of to get back up and move forward?
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Well, it's interesting you would assume that there are less
ups and downs being an elementary school teacher, and that's
not the case. It's just different. One of the biggest
things that I truly had to overcome was, Okay, why
is there an ex NFL player that's teaching my kid
at this very prestigious private school. He's not qualified. My
(43:24):
first two or three years, I had every father at
parent teacher conferences and all they want to do is
talk football, but they weren't sure that I could actually teach.
If I would have instantly gone into coaching, or if
I would have done something different, I would have been instantly, Oh,
he's got credibility, he's got I don't need to question
(43:44):
his ability to do that. But it also made me
a better teacher. I had to be accountable one because,
like I said, it was a very high achieving, well
known private school in the area that I better know
my stuff because they don't. I don't care who you are.
They want what's best for their children.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Yeah, and they're paying a lot of money they are.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
And you know what, I appreciated that that. I took
my job very, very seriously, and I still do. But
it made me accountable. It was the hardest thing for me.
You get everything taped in the NFL, every snap of practice.
There were coaches that would lose it if you didn't
make the right step in a walk through. Everything is
(44:25):
just ultra ultra competitive and important, and you always have
this threat of if you don't perform that day that game,
you could be cut. Then I go into education and
I'd go three months without anybody coming in to see
how I'm teaching observing you, right, I'm like, where's the film? Like,
can I go back and look at that lesson? I don't.
(44:47):
I don't think that went as well as it should have.
That that was really really hard for me. I didn't
realize how structured and how intense the NFL was until
I got out of it.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
That was my correction, aren't you instant?
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Yeah? And you never ever have a perfect game, and
so you're always striving for that perfection and you also
have somebody, whether you know it or the coach, tells
you that. All right, Well, so that math lesson Jay
wasn't great. We're going to bring in the other guy
who can do that part better. So you better not
screw it up again. You know how times tables more
(45:22):
exactly that I can joke about it now. But that
took some adjustment.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
I bet it did.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
That. I really needed more feedback, and so I was very,
very fortunate that the administration was really good about making
sure that they want me to be successful also, And
I got into teaching because I love kids.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
I think that's a great perspective for anyone who wants
to make a career change. And I talked to so
many in this podcast about what did you do afterwards?
How do you reinvent yourself going into something, especially if
it's completely opposite of what you currently do. I mean,
I've had my real estate license since twenty thirteen, and
I thought, how are people going to trust me? Because
all I do is, you know, I tell them about
(46:02):
box scores and you know, things like that. Now they're
gonna trust me with the biggest investment in their life.
And it took me a while to get over in
my head that like, Okay, you can do this. You
know what you're doing, and the more you do it,
the better you become and the more confident you become.
But I think anyone wanting to switch over and do
something different is going to have that and that's okay.
It's okay to do that and build it up and
(46:24):
figure out, but don't make that your block. That doesn't
let you, you know, go do that, right.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
You still need to put in the time and you
still need to put in the work and whatever it is. Yeah,
So I was really prepared for that aspect of it.
Teaching is a very demanding job, just differently it's not
physically demanding, but you need to make sure that you
have everything the way it needs to be. The other
part was, there is no way you could have told
(46:52):
me the year before that was going to be a
teacher's I never had that as anything that I thought
I spied to want to be. But I had to
determine I've got the now child that's in first grade,
and then I have another daughter that's going to be
starting kindergarten. I could not, in a good conscience, say
what does your dad do? Oh, he doesn't do anything.
(47:15):
I needed to be a role model for my own children,
and I knew that that would not be good for
my mental health to not do anything that, even if
I could have financially made it work, I couldn't have mentally.
My last story, which was fascinating it's still true, is
I was very, very fortunate that I did a big
national commercial with Jim Harbaugh and Quentin Coriot. Happened to
(47:39):
be for a telephone company, and it took two days
of shooting. I got paid more for that commercial than
I did for the entire year of teaching, and so
just to think about that economic disparity between careers really
made me appreciate how lucky I was that I got
to do something that I loved it do and I
(48:00):
was really well compensated for it, and it allowed me
then to become an elementary school teacher until I could
make some money. I'm still.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
You're still there, that's right, Yeah, yeah, that is cool. Jay.
So what is your advice though? What do you tell
people if people come up to you and say, hey,
you know, how'd you get through some of those times?
Speaker 1 (48:21):
I think that you have to be confident in your
path if you're going to make that decision that you
can't do anything halfway. I don't care if it's an athletically,
professionally personal life that I had to do something that
was going to bring me joy. I said that I
would never play in the NFL just for the paycheck,
and that is one of the reasons why I said,
(48:42):
you know what, I don't want to go play for
somebody else because that would just be me being in
a backup and picking up a paycheck and I wasn't
willing to do that. Passion is important whatever you're in.
It resonates. You can tell if somebody loves what they
do and I don't care, but it is give me
an electrician. But if you're I have to go to
(49:04):
It comes across and nobody wants you to be in
their house to help fix your electricity or your plumbing,
or for me, teach your kid. Nobody wants someone that's
got a negative attitude to teach, especially young children. Same
thing with coaching. If you think about all the great coaches,
yes they're going to be able to hold you accountable,
but all the coaches that I remember also were very
(49:26):
positive you can do this. This is hard. We wouldn't
ask you to do this if we didn't think you could.
And then that's also where some of the fellow teammates
co workers also were there to help bolster you. And
so I see that so much now. I used to
be a high school coach. Also, that is so important,
especially with the social media and especial with the people
(49:47):
that for whatever reason want to try to bring you down.
You need to be able to have that not be
the priority of your life. Do something that you love
and do it to the best of your ability, and
for me personally, that's plenty.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Love it. This was fantastic, Jay, Thank you for the time.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Well, thank you is awesome.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Yeah, are you surprised you asked what this is going
to be like, and here we are an hour later.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
Well, time flies, right.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
It does well. I love talking about football and I
love seeing you. It's been a while, but I really
appreciate the opportunity and it's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
You'll have to thank Tyler Bradon, he's the one who
nominated you to us. I always ask my guy, another
great guy, always awesome. Yeah, another great episode. So all right, Jay,
thank you so much. This is great. I appreciate you
coming in. Thank you, Thank you Jay. New episodes of Cut, Traded, Fired,
Retired I released on Tuesdays. Please follow, download, and like
this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. You can keep
(50:44):
up on new episodes by following on Twitter and Instagram
at ctf our podcast and also on the website ctfurpodcast
dot com. I'm your host, Susie Wargen. To find out
more about me, visit susiewargin dot com. Thanks for listening
to this episode and any other, and until next time,
please be careful, be safe and be kind. Take care
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