May 27, 2025 • 44 mins
Had someone told a young Tyrone Braxton that one day he would be a two-time Super Bowl Champion and earn a PhD in his late 50’s, he would never have believed them. Had someone told him he’d get involved in alcohol, drugs, be arrested and almost lose his family… well, he may have believed that because that’s what happened to everyone he grew up with in Madison, Wisconsin. The fact that ALL of that happened to Tyrone and he’s now working to help young people avoid his pitfalls makes for an incredible story.
When Tyrone graduated from high school, two of his brothers were in jail and he was off to North Dakota State to play football. He helped the Bison win three National Championships during his four years and while he never thought he’d make it to the NFL, the Broncos took him with the 2nd to last pick in the 1987 NFL Draft.
During his two stints with the Broncos, Tyrone was part of two losing Super Bowls (XXII and XXIV) and two winning Super Bowls (XXXII and XXXIII). Both stints were like different eras between coaches (Dan Reeves vs Mike Shanahan) and position (Cornerback vs Safety).
When he retired, Tyrone was lost. He went to some bad places and in 2006 after he was arrested, he stood in front of the media and admitted he had a drug problem and needed to straighten up. It was his wake-up call and did he wake up. He finished his degree at North Dakota State, got his master’s in social work at Metro State University and just finished his PhD at CU Denver. Now Dr. Braxton works with kids throughout Denver with everything from addiction, behavior, substance abuse, and every other pitfall today’s youth can find. He’s been there and understands.
Listen to Tyrone’s story and conversation with Susie Wargin on the Cut Traded Fired Retired Podcast.
When Tyrone graduated from high school, two of his brothers were in jail and he was off to North Dakota State to play football. He helped the Bison win three National Championships during his four years and while he never thought he’d make it to the NFL, the Broncos took him with the 2nd to last pick in the 1987 NFL Draft.
During his two stints with the Broncos, Tyrone was part of two losing Super Bowls (XXII and XXIV) and two winning Super Bowls (XXXII and XXXIII). Both stints were like different eras between coaches (Dan Reeves vs Mike Shanahan) and position (Cornerback vs Safety).
When he retired, Tyrone was lost. He went to some bad places and in 2006 after he was arrested, he stood in front of the media and admitted he had a drug problem and needed to straighten up. It was his wake-up call and did he wake up. He finished his degree at North Dakota State, got his master’s in social work at Metro State University and just finished his PhD at CU Denver. Now Dr. Braxton works with kids throughout Denver with everything from addiction, behavior, substance abuse, and every other pitfall today’s youth can find. He’s been there and understands.
Listen to Tyrone’s story and conversation with Susie Wargin on the Cut Traded Fired Retired Podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Two thousand and six, after I first got arrested, almost
lost my family, which was the most difficult part, me
and my wife and my kids, and was gone for
a minute. So then I had to really think about, Okay,
what the hell do I want to do? You know,
when you got your family on the line and I
had a young son, young.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Daughter, it took me a while to figure it out.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Welcome to cut, Traded, Fired, retired. I'm your host, Susie
Wargen and this is a temporary introduction to this episode
as I am getting over about with laryngitis. This episode's
guest grew up in Madison, Wisconsin. There were no silver
spoons in Tyrone Braxton's childhood. Far from it, in fact,
but he didn't know any better and he didn't mind
not having much because he had sports, and in particular,
(00:45):
he had football and a coach who cared about him.
After a great high school career, Tyrone accepted a scholarship
at North Dakota State University, where he helped the Bison
win three national championships and had two undefeated seasons. He
was a hard hitting cornerback and in the nineteen eighty
seven draft, the Broncos picked him with the second to
last pick in the twelfth round. Around that doesn't exist today.
(01:06):
They called him Chicken and you'll hear how he got
that nickname. And he had two stints with the Broncos,
the first time as a cornerback where he was part
of two losing Super bowls. The second time he was
a safety where he was a part of two Super
Bowl victories. After football, life had many ups and downs
for Tyrone. The downs being substance abuse, getting arrested, and
(01:26):
almost losing his family. But then he took control of
his life. He finished his college degree, earned his masters,
and most recently a PhD. These days, doctor Braxton works
with the youth around Denver, helping them to avoid the
same pitfalls he fell into. His story is so inspiring,
Ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Tyrone Braxton Cut, Traded, Fired, Retired podcast with Susie Wargen.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Tyrone Braxton, how are you stop?
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Doing great? It's wonderful to be here.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
It's good to have you. You have been on my
list for a very long time and I've had a
hard time tracking you down, but I finally got you here.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, well I've been here all these years. I don't know,
I know.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
I know, but you know it's it's you're a busy guy.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, just the last six seven years.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
You know, I'm going from my doctorate, so it's working
full time and that so I didn't do.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Anything else, I get it.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
Yes, yeah, so now you're now you're doctor Braxton and
you can finally come in and do a podcast episode.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Right, Yeah, that's what I want you to put on here, Yeah, doctor.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
Doctor Tyrone, Yes, you got it all right. Hey, the
way this works, Tyrone is we kind of go back
to your beginnings and go through your life a little bit.
So let's go back to Madison, Wisconsin, where you grow
up and it's a tough go right.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
You know you're not in the the nice part of
town with everything being all roses and white picket fences.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, but you know, okay, we want to be relative, right, yes.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
And when I when I talk about this and people say, well,
you know, where'd you grow up?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I grew up in the south side of Madison.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
But Madison is a small town, right, It's not like
we're in Chicago, and I always hear stuff about Cabrini
Green in Chicago and the projects back there.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
Yeah, that's Mark Jackson, Right.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
And so my mom worked two jobs. She supported five
of us on her own. And so that was to me.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
Is what That's all you knew?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, And you know, my grandfather had a business, my
grandmother worked, and so I knew about working class people, right,
I knew people that worked hard support their family. And
so Madison it was the bad part of Madison, but
that's relative, right, Right.
Speaker 5 (03:34):
How did you get into sports? I know that you
credit your football success to your high school football coach,
But when did sports start for you? And were there
other sports aside from football?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, of course, you know back in the day and
most players, we start playing basketball first right in the park.
It was Penn Park and Madison, and you know, playing
with my cousins, and I was always the guy who
was good, but they always had everybody was better than me, right,
And so we played basketball, and then I started playing
It was funny because I started playing football in fifth grade.
(04:06):
Then I quit, I quit the little league team, and
then I went out and then played for the South
Side Raiders and then you know when in high school
and sports was always important me. I can remember my
first Super Bowl I watched was the seventy two season
with Shula, played with him later, but I can remember
(04:27):
that was the first game I really sat down and watched.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Right, Wow, that's.
Speaker 5 (04:31):
Cool, that's cool. What positions did you like to play
growing up? Were you always on the defensive side or
I'm assuming you played both?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, I played both.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I was a running back, but in Memorial where we
went to school, we ran the wishbone. My cousin was
the quarterback and we had Mike Anderson was you know,
all state running back. Big guy went to Drake and
so he was the guy getting all the yards and rushing.
You know. I had a couple of plays, but you
know I was on part of the wing, but I
(04:58):
didn't get the ball.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
You gotta split when you're in that offense.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, but of course defense.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I made a bunch of players senior year split junior
year with a senior at corner. So yeah, I played
defense mostly and wanted to play offense.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
But yeah, tell me about your high school coach, coach
Wally and I'm not going to say his last name was. Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, you think about life, man, and you think about
all these small decisions could affect your life when you
look back down. So I remember senior year, Wally, I
got into it with an office of coordinator who was
the varsity baseball coach, and I threw my helmet ad
him this is senior year of football and I quit.
Wally casts me up an I said, look, come on back,
(05:41):
let's talk about this in the morning before you do
something stupid. And I could just remember him saying that.
But he was a great guy because he would pick
us up. He was like assistant basketball coach during basketball season.
He'd come at five in the morning when we practice
in the morning, pick all of us up from the
south side. We'd beat at the open pantry on Park
Street and take us to Memorial.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Oh right, And so Wally was a great.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Guy, almost kind of a surrogate father all of you.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
And I can remember we before some games, we'd go
to this house. His wife was cook, he had little daughters,
and he'd drive a big old Harley to practice.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
You know, was good, just a character.
Speaker 5 (06:21):
Yeah, oh that is really cool. And then when did
you kind of figure out that maybe I can do
this in college? You go to North Dakota State. Did
you have other offers? Were there colleges that were coming
after you?
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Northern Iowa right, that was my two right, and I
was like, okay, who am I going to pick? Northern
Iowa was was Division one double A back then we
was Division two in North Dakota State. So I picked
it all on they played the year before the Bison won,
so I said, oh, guess where I'm going. And that
was my you know, that was and that's you know,
(06:52):
how those decisions and things happened. And of course we
had a great teams for it. Played in four national
championships one three of them.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Yeah, I was surprised at that three Natties. That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
My freshman year we lost my softomore year, but then
junior year and then senior year he was undefeated, and
so we had a bunch of great players.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
It was you were all conference that yere too.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, But my softomore year at North Dakota State is
when I figured maybe I could go to the next level.
Because Stacy Robinson, I don't know if you remember him.
He was a wide receiver for the Giants. He was
drafted in the second round. And when we do one
on ones and stuff, all the other dbs that you
take them, you take them. So that I was like,
young dudes so let's go. And I was competitive, right,
(07:37):
and I would compete with them. I said, what dang,
I might could play.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
If I can cover him, and he went in the
second round. I can play.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
And had some great coaches then too, towards my last
two years, Earl Soliderson, Kevin Donnelly who had played he
was played in New England and he was a dB coach.
So I was fortunate throughout my years I had great
mentors and coaches who really showed you about the game.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
That's so important, the mental side. Yeah, not just the fundamentals,
but the mental part of it too. Yeah. And you
eventually went into their Hall of Fame, right, yeah, which
is really cool.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
That was nice, went back for that deal and seen
all the whole bunch of old players I played with
and still get I've seen a lot of them too.
When when we went up to see you last year,
was up there and I met the new coach and
had dinner with them the night before, talked to the
team and so yeah, that was fun getting connected with
some of my old players.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
That's great and fun. Fact, I just found out before
we started recording that you have a pass with Jane Norvell,
the head coach at Colorado State.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, we and Jane went to the same high school together.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
Had no idea a couple of years apart.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, he was two years older than me, but you know,
looked up to him because he was good in basketball
and football and then went to Iowa and so he was.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Like, okay.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
And the good thing about a high school and that's
what really got me thinking about college was guys who
went to Iowa, Notre Dame in Wisconsin, all these schools.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Raley Schessel would put their college.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Picture up in the wait room and so you're in there,
you know, it's it's sophomore ju and you're in you're lifting.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
You see all these guys everybody look up to.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So we got a dream, right, we got it. You
can hope for something.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Now, absolutely, Okay. So you finish your career at North
Dakota State, don't finish your degree, right, you come back
to that. So we're gonna we'll fast forward later on
the podcast of that one. But you go in the
draft in nineteen eighty seven. You are the second to
last pick by the Denver Broncos twelve rounds, which doesn't
happen anymore, doesn't today i'd be a free agent, right,
(09:40):
you would be a free agent. Yeah. What was that
day like for you? Did you think you'd go earlier?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (09:45):
Yeah, okay, and so yeah, everybody always does.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
My agent was saying you're going to middle rounds, this
and that and so yeah. And I was at North
Dakota State, so we had the media and far Go
was at my house wday and wait for that call.
And you know, people started leaving right and it was,
you know, dinnertime, six seven, No one called, so then
(10:09):
everybody leaves. My roommates went to bed, and my phone
rings like it one twelve thirty one in the morning,
and actually it was the Green Bay Packers, you know
from Wisconsin.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I'm like cool.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
They're like, yeah, we're just waiting for this next team
to pick and then we're gonna pick you. And a
couple of seconds later like, oh no, they just picked
you and hung up Before I could ask, well, who
was it? The phone rings again as the Broncos. And
the funny part is, you know the draft was all
in one day back then, right, and so it was
Ginny Anne I remember, you know, from the Broncos. She
(10:40):
called me up and said, well, we drafted you, you
got to be on the flight at seven in the morning.
So I flew up, we flew out of Fargo the
next morning. Oh you know, then that's when I met
Ricky de Till, Michael Brooks, Mark Bumford, all these guys
in my class. Yeah, wow, Bruce Plumber the DV and
(11:01):
so yeah, we all met that day.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
The next day, so it was like up landing.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
What a whirlwind, right, and then boom, let's go wow.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
That's crazy. And then the second to last pick, which
I think is just you were almost mister irrelevant. Had
Green Bay picked you, you would have been mister irrelevant, right,
and look at how relevant you became. You end up
having thirteen years in the league.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Which is crazy.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah. I definitely was fortunate, and you know, uh just played.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
With a bunch of great players, hard worker, you know,
and I could just remember that first year after I
was drafted to come out here in the summer working
out with you know, Miller the Killer.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Al Miller was our strength coach.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Back there, pulling sleds and so we worked hard, right,
and so we had good teams and Dennis Smith was
really the guy that it was like the big defensive
back who was blowing people up, and so it was like, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Let's play.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
Interestingly enough, you were here in two different stints from
eighty seven to ninety three. You had a year in
Miami in ninety four, then you're ninety five to ninety nine.
So you go to two Super Bowls as a cornerback
in your first stint, and we don't like to talk
about those, right, two twenty four with Washington San Francisco,
But the other two we love to talk about because
that was the first one, super Bowl thirty two, and
(12:15):
you get a huge pick in that one that leads
to a touchdown, and then thirty three is also a win.
So what did you learn, Tyrone from the first two
losses that you could have taken then to the next ones?
I mean, I know, it all kind of builds up
and everything, and there was a lot in between because
the reason you left after the first time was they
were blaming the problems of the defense on you. Right,
(12:36):
your an escapegoat, right, and that's life, right, like you
must be the problem. But fun fact, in ninety four
they had a worse.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Defense than yeah, they started without you, right, and I
credit that year even though you know, I was mad.
I was pissed off. Did they would do that and
not re sign me, especially when Wade became the head
coach and he was decordinated when I was starting. But
then it worked out because you go to Miami and
the Broncos get worse. But then Miami is the team
(13:06):
that moved me to safety and so and that gave
me a chance. And then I was back up. So
when you're back up in the NFL, you're going against
the first team. So I'm going against Marino, right.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
And probably doing well.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah, and Marino he looked straight at the free safety
and then he looks to the right or left real quick.
He doesn't give you a hint where he stare you
down right, So you.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Had to be you had to be solid.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
What a great way to learn that position, right.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
And I was fortunate, right, Yeah, So I really appreciated that.
But yeah, what I took I guess from that question
is the way we prepared with Mike compared to dam
We're in New Orleans when we played Sam fran and
I will start in the corner of that game, and
you know, guys are going out doing things. But when
(13:55):
Mike came, it's like look we got regular practice, regular week.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
This is it's not a week to go party. So
was it a lot looser with Dan Reeves as far
as those those.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Dan would say, enjoy this, this is special, you know,
suck this in. Mike was like, look, this is our
regular thing, this is history, been doing. We got one
more time and that was solid.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
Interesting. I would have thought that Coach Reeves would have
been a little more of a hard ass about.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Stuff with and Landry and that history, those type of guys. Yeah,
I would have thought so too, But it was more
of enjoy this.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
And you were an enjoyer. Yeah, okay, no problem, check Mark.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
And you know Chicken and Rice let's go right.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Gosh.
Speaker 5 (14:50):
Yeah, speaking of Chicken, who was the first one to
call you that.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Randy Robbins? It was all from you know, they made
stuff up.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
Yes, it was just because she had skinny legs, right, okay,
and that's what it should have been. Is it something else?
Oh okay, the real story behind.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
But it was they said I was running a hen house.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
You know, I was on the phone with my old
college roommate, but there was a female in the room
with us, and there was a whole bunch of guys,
but everybody thought it was a woman on the phone.
So Randy Robbins the next day, Oh, chick tyrone running
a hen house and I said, ain't that a rooster?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Right?
Speaker 5 (15:32):
Oh my gosh, I've never heard that story. That's hilarious
because everybody just always thought it was your leg right, Like,
look at his little skinny legs.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
And that's what was my Chad Stark, the running back
from North Dakota State, he called me chicken legs, right.
I see them when we was.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Up and see you up and boat.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
He's like, hey, chicken legs right, And that's what you
know because of my legs right, calves right.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
But there were there were two meanings to chicken. Yeah,
the truth is covered, all right, Let's go back and
let's talk about Super Bowl thirty two and just what
an experience that was. I started covering. I started working
at KOA right after thirty two, so I was still
I was in the media, but just on the FM
side of things, working at KPPI, so I was I've
always been a fan and grew up here and that
(16:17):
was the first championship. It was unbelievable. The feeling in
the city was, I mean, nobody knew what to do
because we've just always been set up for disappointment for losing, Yeah,
and having gone through two losses yourself before that, to
win that one had to be unbelievable, right, And.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
It was something where I don't know if you kind of.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Remember that context, right, we you know, when you feel
like you go into Kansas City and win, then you
go into Pittsburgh and win, we can beat this World
champions on neutral turf. And I think that was our
context because we had did loss to Kansas City and
Pittsburgh in December of that year, and then confidence, right,
(17:01):
we look at sports now, when you got confidence, you know,
I can play against these guys, it does.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
One win stack on top of ends. Yeah, And so.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
That was special, right because yeah, I had was there
with those two horrible losses and then eight years later,
you know, me and Steve and you know John and Sharball,
these guys you know, and so it was it was
special because no one thought we could do it, but
U exactly us in the locker room, right, because we
(17:31):
were like, yeah, no matter. And it was Green Bay,
my team. I grew up with, my team I.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Love, Right, It's like, okay, let's play.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
So, yeah, that was a wonderful game, two heavyweights going
right back and forth.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
Yeah, yes, very much so, and such a different than
how it was against the Falcons. I think that would
have thirty three would have been a totally different game
had it been the Vikings, which it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
But were like, that's what all my buddies say from
the Falcon we should have been there.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, I can't help who we play exactly.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Games like that happened. So there you go. So you
come out of two time Super Bowl champ and what
then propels you to retire? Did you decide or was
it done for you? No?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
It was me because in between that first and second
Super Bowl I had shoulder surgery. Then that year a
lot of this people don't know, but you know, I
went back to Mike and was like, look, I need
some more money, and they was like, well, we're gonna
draft this young safety and we don't need it. And
of course he made that play, and so I was
(18:37):
back up all year to the playoffs, to the last
couple of regular season games.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
Right, who are you back up to?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Eric Brown?
Speaker 4 (18:45):
They drafted him, that's right.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Second round, right, And I had to shoulder surgery, and
you know, they made it say like oh my shoulder
wasn't right, this and that, but miraculously come to playoffs.
And of course then my last interception was against the Raiders,
seventy something yards. Tim Brown got me. I didn't score. Uh.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
And it was that year. I know it was that year.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
That was a tough year for you, wasn't it. I
kind of remember you in the locker room and it
was a surly time.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, yeah, And so I was I was salty.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
Yeah, salty.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
That's a good word.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
You were salty that year.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Then you know, we win the Super Bowl, Like you said,
it was over at halftime. We knew we had these people.
But the next year, you know, Steve's gone and then
I'm starting again. So I'm pissed my last season. I
didn't make no plays, didn't do anything. And that's when
I said I'm done. And I remember from Dan Reeves, right,
(19:44):
and I didn't realize it because I was young, but
I remember him like, look, if you ever come into
this game and you don't feel like you have that
that hunger, it's time to wrap it up. And I
didn't have it anymore.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
You realize that I didn't have it.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
I didn't feel working that hard to you know, pair
that shoulder and make sure everything was right. I was salty,
and so you know it was time. It was time.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
But all my.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Guys, you know, it was gone, right Steve, John Shannon,
you know, and.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Guys were leaving.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
And that's hard because you guys had had a really
close nucleus in that locker room, especially with thirty two
and thirty three.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Right, and I had played with John, you know, eleven
years right in the locker room right across. We'd mess
around and throw the ball at each other.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
You know, it was funny. It was fun stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
And so you know, it's kind of like when they
say someone's been married for many years and their spouse
leaves us and then they don't have the will to
go on anymore.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
This is kind of similar to me. Yeah, I wasn't
didn't have it.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
You were just all done at that point. Yeah, and
then what do you do? The gist of this podcast
of reinvention. And it took you a while to figure
out what you wanted to do because you had a
few years that were not so great, right, Yeah, In
two thousand and six, December two thousand and six, you
faced the media and said, hey, listen, I got a problem, man,
(21:08):
I got to get some some things figured out, drug
and alcohol wise, right.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
And that was the keyd And it took me a
minute even after that, did it?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Two thousand and six, after I first got arrested, almost
lost my family, which was the most difficult part, me
and my wife and my kids, and was gone for
a minute. So then I had to really think about, Okay,
what the hell do I want to do?
Speaker 5 (21:30):
It gets real real at that point, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, you know, when you got your family on the
line and you had a young son, young daughter.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
It took me a while to figure it out and
to think about.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
So I went back to when I regally went to Fargo,
North Dakota State, because you know, going there, I was
one hundred and fifty pounds graduating high school. I didn't
have no intention to make it to the NFL, so
I was going there to be my coach session, right.
I wanted to help out the kids in the neighborhood
and help them be successful and get out of college
and everything else.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
So I did some research and figured out social work.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Would be that for me. After I got the Bachelor's right,
so I had to go get back to the Bachelor's.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
How many credits short were you?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I was one semester, one semester, so.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
Did everything stay and transfer from all those years? Luckily,
my gosh.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Right, and so, but they said in order to graduate
you got to do one semester at least twelve credits.
And so even back when I was playing, they didn't
have no and I wasn't going back to Fargo.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
They didn't have online, right, there was no internet, right,
so right, so barely right, it was just eighty.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Three and then when I left in eighty six and
then eighty seven. Yeah, right, so it was it wasn't
for the masses right that way, yes, and so did
that some classes got a university studies degree. So because
I really was my major going in was physical education
coaching minor.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
Oh really truly did want to have football coach.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, and it's weird because I'm in schools now, right, Yes,
you are kind of the same thing, but helping out
on a different level, but being able to really figure
out who you are.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
And it takes a while, right, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Especially when I had to you know, work on my
personal my family finances all kinds of things and so
and then that's when you go back home and you
put your head down and your heart hat on and
go to work. Right.
Speaker 5 (23:30):
Yeah. Absolutely, So you get your bachelors from North Dakota
State at I think it was age forty five, to
finish your college degree. Where does the family like, how
did did you kind of do?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
What?
Speaker 5 (23:40):
It's all simultaneous working on the family for a little
while too, because I know there was a little bit
of separation in there, but then everybody came back together, right, Yeah, So.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
It was like a year and a half, two years separated,
but when I came back and got my bachelor's, we
would reconcile.
Speaker 5 (23:56):
Elizabeth was like, oh, maybe you really are for real?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Right, So it was doing it lot of meditation, a
lot of self help, self care, getting back into shape,
exercise and eating right, all the things that I let go, right.
But then when I got my bachelor's, I started working.
I don't know if you don't add at Gilliam which
is a juvenile detention center right up here on thirtieth
(24:20):
in Downing.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
I did see that you did that.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, So I worked there several years and was worked
as like security. What you would do. You'd come in
in the day and work a certain pod. Either it
was you know, the pod C was few people but
close to eighteen are getting ready to if they're getting
out or going to county jail. B was a lot
of the young, a whole bunch of them middle schoolers,
(24:45):
young high schoolers.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
And so I did that for.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
Seve And would you kind of counsel them when you
were there or just ye okay.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, yeah, because I would do groups all the time,
because I would after that, I think a year after
I started that is when I entered my social work program.
And that's when I knew that, Okay, well, I'm going
to do this just for the experience, but I can't
stay in that type of realm as far as punishment
(25:12):
and and I'm trying to do social work.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
Yeah, that's different things, yes, And that makes sense, right.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
And found that out where I work at now. Sometimes
when we work with Diversion, which was adolescent parole, and
they want you to take over one of.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Their kids for therapy and all this stuff. But then
it's different, right.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
Yeah, It's like you're trying to give them two different
types of treatment and that doesn't work very well.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Right right, Yeah, because therapy itself is more of acceptance
and compassion and let me help you where.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Other side is punitive, follow these.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
Rules, you're in trouble, very negative.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, and so totally two different things. And understand we
do need some time to lock some people up, yes right.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
Oh yeah, yeah, but that wasn't me right.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Right, So but I did that really for the experience.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
So yeah, I worked at GILA and it helped you
figure out exactly where you wanted to be. You knew
you didn't want that, but you wanted something to do
with helping these kids.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
And that's where yeah, and I talk about that a
lot with students. Right, try that experience.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yes, you might not work out, but then you know
this is not what you want.
Speaker 5 (26:21):
I tell people that all the time in this industry.
I'm like, I know you want to be on air,
but try all the other things because there might be
something else you like. If nothing else, you appreciate what
they do for the job that you really want to do, right,
and it makes you understand everything better.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
And I remember that from high school as well. I
mean so back in Wisconsin when I was growing up,
would have these summer jobs from fourteen to twenty one
till I stayed my last year at Fargo, and I
worked for the City of Madison, the parks department. So
two summers I worked in the cemetery. Two somemmers I
worked in the back of a garbage truck. And this
(26:57):
is not like the garbage trucks now. This is when
you had some on the back and they come and
pick it up and dumping it.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
There's no automatic garbage trucks now.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
So you're young, You're a teenager making some money, and
so I didn't care, but I knew I didn't want
to do this for the rest of my life. Right.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
Oh how funny. So when you eventually get your master's
degree at Metro State University and then.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Go to the Mental Health Center Denver, Okay, Mental Health
Center of Denver changed to well Power. They're a community
mental health for adults and children. It's so when you
get your master's of social work, just like an attorney
or someone else, you got to work two years in
an industry to get.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Licensed to be a therapist.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Okay, So I did case management work, and so I
did work with on a couple of grand teams where
I got people out of jail and prison and help
them become self sustainable. So that's what kind of led
up to my dissertation when we talk about that later. Yeah,
we helped them get physical health, mental health, housing, and employment.
(28:07):
We try to do all these things to help them
be self sustainable instead of taking from the system, contributing
to the system. Right, it's an easy thing we can do.
And so I got that experience. So you have to
do that for two years before you get your clinical
social work license and then you could go do therapy. Okay,
(28:29):
so yes, it's kind of a tricky situation, but yeah,
I love that experience working there too because I got
deep in to see what really happening in society. Sometimes
we see what we see in the tech center is
not what we see up here in five points Oh yeah, right, yeah,
and so and when I'm driving over here this morning
(28:50):
and I'm looking and look at that all these nice
new apartments next to the.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Light rail and all this other stuff.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
It was like, okay, yeah, And I live in the
city and work in the city, and I work with
the kids whose parents work in the city.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
So just know that there's different life out there.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
Absolutely there are, and we want.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
To respect them all and accept them all.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Right, that's awesome. What made you decide you wanted to
be a doctor and get your HD?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Why did I want it? I still didn't figure that out, right,
and it was so hard.
Speaker 5 (29:23):
Oh my gosh, how long did it take you?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah, it took me like seven years.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
And you know, my wife would be like, you know,
because I'd worked full time and then on the weekends
when you.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
First start off, you got a couple.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Of years of classes, and so I go to work,
and I go to class downtown and be like a
three hour class, come home eight o'clock, you know, do
some reading and writing, go to bed. But then the
weekends that's all I did. But then the last couple
of years, when you're doing your dissertation is I'm doing
(29:57):
the research, right, So I got to design it.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I got to put and my researchers.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
I interviewed people African American men with PTSD of depression
when they got out of prison to look at their
re entry process, meaning what happens when they get out,
how do they get housing, how did they get appointment,
and compared it to recidivism, which is to return to prison,
(30:22):
which is high in Colorado. Ok we're like one of
the highest states with yes people returning to prison.
Speaker 5 (30:29):
Interesting, why is that right?
Speaker 1 (30:31):
And come to find out, a lot of it was
they changed some laws right before I started my research,
and so right now the recidivism rate is going to
be a lot better. But they changed the laws where
they didn't put the parole officers and the board. They
took away some of their power of being able to
send people back for technical violations. When we say you
(30:55):
miss an appointment, you didn't get a job yet, or
you got dirty. UA's a fine line when do we
want to really send somebody at So a lot of
people would go back to prison for technical violations without
committing a crime.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Oh okay, and we was.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Highest in the country for that, and that's what contributed
to it. So they changed some laws in some policies
around what really Yeah, what justifies sending somebody back to prison,
because you know what you're paying for it?
Speaker 5 (31:27):
And so I was just gonna say for a misappointment,
the taxpayers pay for that.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
And when you look.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
At it, Colorado, it's like a billion dollars to house
about twenty thousand people.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Wow, you know, we're not even like California. Florida, New York.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Right, we only got twenty thousand, but it cost us
nine hundred and something million.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Wow, And what we looked.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
At, when I looked at really two was thirty percent.
So three hundred million was technical violations. That was my
dissertation when I found that, whoa, and that's.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
A lot of money, tyrone, that's a ton of money
and a.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Lot of and it was like seventy five percent of
those was not a new crime.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
Had anybody done this kind of research before? You're the
first one that did it right and behind it opened
some eyes.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
To some politicians, I would say.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
The legislation, they notice.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
And they had started that work of changing that policy,
so they already had been doing it. The Colorado Criminal
Justice Reform Coalition, they've been into this for years and.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
But the fact that you had your research to show
them had to be huge, right.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
And to show and she's like, oh, yeah, that kind
of makes sense of what we've been talking about all
this time. And you know, so they're like they're the
top nonprofit organization in the state Criminal Justice Reform Coalition,
and so they've been talking a lot about that. It's
hard getting you know, just like policy just like the
federal government. We got our own state stuff. Yes, have
(32:56):
their own opinion, But when you look at it for
someone like you and me and were paying the three
hundred million for someone who really didn't commit a crime,
that's a lot of money.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
That's a lot of money.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
That could be for schools, that could be for health care,
that could be for a lot of things.
Speaker 5 (33:13):
That's amazing. You did that and open some eyes and
solidified what was already kind of being done. Right, that's
a huge tyron. That's very cool, And I really had
to be very rewarding.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yes, it was to really see it because at first,
you know, I wanted to compare recentivism. What was the
differences between the people who didn't recitivate and.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
The people who did.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
I wanted to look at five different areas of life,
which was criminal justice, housey, employment, mental health, in the
neighborhood where they.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Live at right, so five.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Well, then I found out in my research none of
these guys went back to prison, and so I started
having to look at it from a different way. It's like,
what's going on here? So that's when I got deeper
into some power. Let's he changes some law and changes
where the guys lived at and who they were hooked
up with and how.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
So you dug deep.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, and that's the name of my dissertation, A Deeper
Look at re Entry from Prison. Oh wow, I wanted
to go past the numbers.
Speaker 5 (34:17):
Yeah, go past the statistics don't tell you what you
really need to know.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
In anything, right, even in sports?
Speaker 5 (34:22):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah. I talk about that too, and people are.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Like, well, look, this team got more yards, they got
the best yard is they got. Well, you know, we
gotta go a little deeper than that yardis don't mean everything.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
You don't play a game on paper, right, You can
win a game on paper and not win the game
on the field.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
And that happens all the time, all the time.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Nuggets.
Speaker 5 (34:40):
Just because Nicola has another triple double doesn't mean they're
gonna win. That's so funny. Okay, So you finish up
your PhD just this past December, Do you just feel
like you have a whole new lease on life with
your time?
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah? I feel like what am I going to do? Right?
Speaker 1 (34:57):
It's like I got the weekends free.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
It's like.
Speaker 5 (35:01):
You gotta start going to Broncos game.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
And that was that was the bad thing too. Because
my daughter, you know, she lives in Low High and
got a good job. It's like, Dad, let's go to the
Bronco game.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
You know, I'm like, I gotta finish study. I got it.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, fifty something years old, fifty eight years old, I
got to study.
Speaker 5 (35:21):
All right, Well that'll change this fall. Now you can
start doing that. But and your kids are doing fantastic
from what you said. Chloe's got a great job. Your
son's got great grades, like I mean.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Just he is.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
But you know, of course, Chloe is very smart, really intelligent,
been with the same group of people kind of for
her last since her last eight years, since she graduated college.
She's working for a pharmaceutical company on the Boulder. He
real smart, moved up. My son is in his last
month of law school. He's at Columbia, So he's going
(35:55):
to have two doctors. He's gonna be a juris doctor.
That I'll be my own daughter and his family.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
Right, How cool is that?
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, But he's always been that way. Just me and
my wife just had to get out of his way.
Speaker 5 (36:08):
And sometimes we have to do that.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Yeah, yeah, you know, and I kind of knew it.
I should have known it. I probably didn't. But I
remember first second grade taking him to Bromwell to school,
right driving to school and I'm late, running late for work.
I gotta do some stuff, and he starts balling in
the background. I'm like, what's going on, what's happening. He's like,
I forgot my homework, Miss So, and So's gonna be
(36:33):
so mad. We gotta go back and get it. I said,
I'm late.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
We're not going back. But I should have known that
he was serious.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
And all through middle school, high school, he'd come home
do his work and he'd go play his video games.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
My daughter was a lot.
Speaker 5 (36:47):
Different, right, They're always opposite. Were like that too.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, so it so. But yeah, he worked hard.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
He got a couple of clerkships lined up and in
New York and taking a bar this summer.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
So you know, it's sad because he'll stay out.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
There probably so, but you got your daughter here for now,
which is great, good, you know, And what's interesting. So
you look at, you know, your experience growing up in
Madison and kind of and I read a lot about
you know, your friends, and I know when you finished
high school you had two brothers that were in prison
at that point. So those surroundings, you know, can set
up some things. Just twenty years ago was when you
(37:26):
were in front of the news camera saying, all right,
I got busted and I got to get my stuff together.
And then here we are two decades later, your marriage
is repaired, your kids are doing great. You needed that reinvention,
that turnaround, that come to Jesus so to speak of
of this is what I got to do with my life.
For I'm going down that same path as everybody that
you had grown up with.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Right right, And I knew it could change, right because
the main reason why I started the dissertation was my brother.
He's a year ordered me, and he had got twenty
five years in Wisconsin. And so after eleven years, they
were like, yeah, you can get out, but you can't
(38:08):
stay in Wisconsin when they knew I was playing here
football for the Broncos. So I said, yeah, you come in,
move in with me, the wife of my daughter. He
got out after eleven years. He's on a year old
and me missed all his twenties. He went out, found
a job, he got a wife and kid. Now he
works and never went back. And so that's what was
(38:31):
the main impetus of my research too, was what is
the difference for the people who go back. When my
brother had opportunity, you gave him off and he ran
with it. But he came into an environment where he
wasn't back on East Cofax, right, he wasn't pressured where
you got to get a job, any job, right. I
gave him a vehicle, He drove a car, he went
(38:52):
to parole meetings down in Inglewood.
Speaker 5 (38:54):
What a gift.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, And that's what got me thinking about it. And
that's the only way my rear came about so wonderfully.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Was that life experience?
Speaker 1 (39:04):
I seen that, not everybody, because but I knew I
had a lot of friends who've been in and out,
in and out, guys I worked with at Mental Health
Center Denver, in and out, in and out. What was
the difference. A lot of people don't have opportunity to change.
They get thrown back, their standing in a motel on Cofax.
They don't have a job, can't get a job, people
won't hire them. You can't live in a safe place
(39:26):
because a lot of rental companies won't rent the person
with a felony in the background.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
There's a lot of disadvantages from social and one.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Of my theories of my research was social determinants of health,
the social policies and.
Speaker 5 (39:41):
Laws and the stigma is attached to that.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yes, and so, but I seen firsthand. I seen on
the hand with people in and out, in and out.
But I've seen firsthand. My brother got out, never went back,
kept the same job, he had a house, motorcycle family.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
That's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
You know, I've been working at the same place for
twenty years.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
Because you gave them the helping hands, right, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, and that's yeah, that's what I think about when
I'm working with the students.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
Yeah. So what is it that you do right now?
You do a lot of work with students at different schools, right, Okay, So.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
I'm the manager of Denver Health for the STEP program,
which is stands for Substance Treatment, Education and Prevention. Kids
who get caught smoking in the bathroom, doing stuff teenagers
middle schoolers do come sit down with me or my
team and therapists and helped them, you know, figure out,
(40:37):
you know, is this really helpful? And we teach them
other ways to cope with because a lot of kids
have anxiety depression experiences with trauma, so we help them
learn to manage those emotions, thoughts, and feelings.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
That's great, that's what therapy is.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Yea, right, absolutely, I love.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
It and bring a lot of my own personal stuff
you to it.
Speaker 5 (40:59):
People can't, but you go, he don't know what he's
talking about.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
You know what you're talking about, like you didn't live
that life?
Speaker 5 (41:06):
Well, yeah, you didn't go and then some yeah all right, Tyrone.
Last question for you. I ask all my guests this,
as you look back on your life, and now you
get the great opportunity to do this with students when
they are down or having those moments, is there anything
in particular you kind of tell them to be able
to pick up and just keep going, because sometimes you
(41:27):
just need that person to give you that little bit
of positive energy or reinforcement.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Really is supporting them, right, showing compassion, not saying you'll
get over this. No, this does hurt. We can move
past it, but it does hurt and experience this emotion,
and that's a big part of substance use or any
type of addiction, gambling, sex, whatever it is. It's about.
(41:54):
We're running from our emotion, this traumatic experience, this lack
of neglect, abuse, and so we're so busy trying to
run from these emotions that I'm gonna drink, I'm gonna smoke,
I'm gonna do whatever to not feel it. Sometimes we
have to experience it, And especially when I'm working with
(42:15):
kids who play high school sports, I say, look, you've
got anxiety all the time, right, tell me what you
experienced before a game. And I know for me, I've
played many a year, twenty something years out of my
thirty five when I retired from football, and I always
felt scared and anxious before a game. I never felt like, all,
this is easy, No, couldn't eat.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Yeah, So I let them know that. So when you
play sports and you you have that feeling before a game,
then you get out there and you just start playing
and everything works out. That's you dealing with that emotion.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
That's a great analogy, right, And.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
So we help to experience it, not run from it,
but we move past it. We go past it. So
once we.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Keep having that path, it becomes easier. Right, a row
like a rut in the road, it's easy to go
through that path.
Speaker 5 (43:08):
Wow, I'm so proud of you and just thrilled that
you're doing so great. And I mean it was fun
to cover you and you play with the Broncos, and
then to see what you've done all these years later
in a true reinvention of everything in your life, and
yet it's all come back together with your family and
everything else. It's it's pretty cool, right, yeah, it's something else.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
It is wonderful. It's you know, of course, we got
a whole bunch of problems in this country, but it's
wonderful for me to work down on that direct care
level with the kids and help.
Speaker 5 (43:41):
That's what's really important. We can't there's a lot of
stuff up here that we can't do anything about it.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
We can't control, but you.
Speaker 5 (43:47):
Can't control the things on the on your own level there,
so and you're doing that.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
And that's what's important. And that's all the time.
Speaker 5 (43:54):
I love it, Tyrone. Thank you for coming in. This
was so fun. Yes, and let's see at some Bronco
games this fall. K all right, thanks Tyrone.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Thank you so much, Tyrone. New episodes of Cut, Traded, Fired,
Retired are released on Tuesdays. Please follow and download this
podcast wherever you listen to podcasts, and keep up on
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podcast and also on the website ctfrpodcast dot com. If
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(44:23):
the whole podcast. There are some great guests on here.
I'm your host, Susie Wargen. To find out more about me,
visit susiewargin dot com. Thank you for listening, and until
next time, please be careful, be safe and be kind.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
Take care
Two thousand and six, after I first got arrested, almost
lost my family, which was the most difficult part, me
and my wife and my kids, and was gone for
a minute. So then I had to really think about, Okay,
what the hell do I want to do? You know,
when you got your family on the line and I
had a young son, young.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Daughter, it took me a while to figure it out.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Welcome to cut, Traded, Fired, retired. I'm your host, Susie
Wargen and this is a temporary introduction to this episode
as I am getting over about with laryngitis. This episode's
guest grew up in Madison, Wisconsin. There were no silver
spoons in Tyrone Braxton's childhood. Far from it, in fact,
but he didn't know any better and he didn't mind
not having much because he had sports, and in particular,
(00:45):
he had football and a coach who cared about him.
After a great high school career, Tyrone accepted a scholarship
at North Dakota State University, where he helped the Bison
win three national championships and had two undefeated seasons. He
was a hard hitting cornerback and in the nineteen eighty
seven draft, the Broncos picked him with the second to
last pick in the twelfth round. Around that doesn't exist today.
(01:06):
They called him Chicken and you'll hear how he got
that nickname. And he had two stints with the Broncos,
the first time as a cornerback where he was part
of two losing Super bowls. The second time he was
a safety where he was a part of two Super
Bowl victories. After football, life had many ups and downs
for Tyrone. The downs being substance abuse, getting arrested, and
(01:26):
almost losing his family. But then he took control of
his life. He finished his college degree, earned his masters,
and most recently a PhD. These days, doctor Braxton works
with the youth around Denver, helping them to avoid the
same pitfalls he fell into. His story is so inspiring,
Ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Tyrone Braxton Cut, Traded, Fired, Retired podcast with Susie Wargen.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Tyrone Braxton, how are you stop?
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Doing great? It's wonderful to be here.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
It's good to have you. You have been on my
list for a very long time and I've had a
hard time tracking you down, but I finally got you here.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, well I've been here all these years. I don't know,
I know.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
I know, but you know it's it's you're a busy guy.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, just the last six seven years.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
You know, I'm going from my doctorate, so it's working
full time and that so I didn't do.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Anything else, I get it.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
Yes, yeah, so now you're now you're doctor Braxton and
you can finally come in and do a podcast episode.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Right, Yeah, that's what I want you to put on here, Yeah, doctor.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
Doctor Tyrone, Yes, you got it all right. Hey, the
way this works, Tyrone is we kind of go back
to your beginnings and go through your life a little bit.
So let's go back to Madison, Wisconsin, where you grow
up and it's a tough go right.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
You know you're not in the the nice part of
town with everything being all roses and white picket fences.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, but you know, okay, we want to be relative, right, yes.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
And when I when I talk about this and people say, well,
you know, where'd you grow up?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I grew up in the south side of Madison.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
But Madison is a small town, right, It's not like
we're in Chicago, and I always hear stuff about Cabrini
Green in Chicago and the projects back there.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
Yeah, that's Mark Jackson, Right.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
And so my mom worked two jobs. She supported five
of us on her own. And so that was to me.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
Is what That's all you knew?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, And you know, my grandfather had a business, my
grandmother worked, and so I knew about working class people, right,
I knew people that worked hard support their family. And
so Madison it was the bad part of Madison, but
that's relative, right, Right.
Speaker 5 (03:34):
How did you get into sports? I know that you
credit your football success to your high school football coach,
But when did sports start for you? And were there
other sports aside from football?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, of course, you know back in the day and
most players, we start playing basketball first right in the park.
It was Penn Park and Madison, and you know, playing
with my cousins, and I was always the guy who
was good, but they always had everybody was better than me, right,
And so we played basketball, and then I started playing
It was funny because I started playing football in fifth grade.
(04:06):
Then I quit, I quit the little league team, and
then I went out and then played for the South
Side Raiders and then you know when in high school
and sports was always important me. I can remember my
first Super Bowl I watched was the seventy two season
with Shula, played with him later, but I can remember
(04:27):
that was the first game I really sat down and watched.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Right, Wow, that's.
Speaker 5 (04:31):
Cool, that's cool. What positions did you like to play
growing up? Were you always on the defensive side or
I'm assuming you played both?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, I played both.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I was a running back, but in Memorial where we
went to school, we ran the wishbone. My cousin was
the quarterback and we had Mike Anderson was you know,
all state running back. Big guy went to Drake and
so he was the guy getting all the yards and rushing.
You know. I had a couple of plays, but you
know I was on part of the wing, but I
(04:58):
didn't get the ball.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
You gotta split when you're in that offense.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, but of course defense.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I made a bunch of players senior year split junior
year with a senior at corner. So yeah, I played
defense mostly and wanted to play offense.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
But yeah, tell me about your high school coach, coach
Wally and I'm not going to say his last name was. Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, you think about life, man, and you think about
all these small decisions could affect your life when you
look back down. So I remember senior year, Wally, I
got into it with an office of coordinator who was
the varsity baseball coach, and I threw my helmet ad
him this is senior year of football and I quit.
Wally casts me up an I said, look, come on back,
(05:41):
let's talk about this in the morning before you do
something stupid. And I could just remember him saying that.
But he was a great guy because he would pick
us up. He was like assistant basketball coach during basketball season.
He'd come at five in the morning when we practice
in the morning, pick all of us up from the
south side. We'd beat at the open pantry on Park
Street and take us to Memorial.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Oh right, And so Wally was a great.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Guy, almost kind of a surrogate father all of you.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
And I can remember we before some games, we'd go
to this house. His wife was cook, he had little daughters,
and he'd drive a big old Harley to practice.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
You know, was good, just a character.
Speaker 5 (06:21):
Yeah, oh that is really cool. And then when did
you kind of figure out that maybe I can do
this in college? You go to North Dakota State. Did
you have other offers? Were there colleges that were coming
after you?
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Northern Iowa right, that was my two right, and I
was like, okay, who am I going to pick? Northern
Iowa was was Division one double A back then we
was Division two in North Dakota State. So I picked
it all on they played the year before the Bison won,
so I said, oh, guess where I'm going. And that
was my you know, that was and that's you know,
(06:52):
how those decisions and things happened. And of course we
had a great teams for it. Played in four national
championships one three of them.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Yeah, I was surprised at that three Natties. That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
My freshman year we lost my softomore year, but then
junior year and then senior year he was undefeated, and
so we had a bunch of great players.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
It was you were all conference that yere too.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, But my softomore year at North Dakota State is
when I figured maybe I could go to the next level.
Because Stacy Robinson, I don't know if you remember him.
He was a wide receiver for the Giants. He was
drafted in the second round. And when we do one
on ones and stuff, all the other dbs that you
take them, you take them. So that I was like,
young dudes so let's go. And I was competitive, right,
(07:37):
and I would compete with them. I said, what dang,
I might could play.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
If I can cover him, and he went in the
second round. I can play.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
And had some great coaches then too, towards my last
two years, Earl Soliderson, Kevin Donnelly who had played he
was played in New England and he was a dB coach.
So I was fortunate throughout my years I had great
mentors and coaches who really showed you about the game.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
That's so important, the mental side. Yeah, not just the fundamentals,
but the mental part of it too. Yeah. And you
eventually went into their Hall of Fame, right, yeah, which
is really cool.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
That was nice, went back for that deal and seen
all the whole bunch of old players I played with
and still get I've seen a lot of them too.
When when we went up to see you last year,
was up there and I met the new coach and
had dinner with them the night before, talked to the
team and so yeah, that was fun getting connected with
some of my old players.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
That's great and fun. Fact, I just found out before
we started recording that you have a pass with Jane Norvell,
the head coach at Colorado State.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, we and Jane went to the same high school together.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
Had no idea a couple of years apart.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, he was two years older than me, but you know,
looked up to him because he was good in basketball
and football and then went to Iowa and so he was.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Like, okay.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
And the good thing about a high school and that's
what really got me thinking about college was guys who
went to Iowa, Notre Dame in Wisconsin, all these schools.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Raley Schessel would put their college.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Picture up in the wait room and so you're in there,
you know, it's it's sophomore ju and you're in you're lifting.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
You see all these guys everybody look up to.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So we got a dream, right, we got it. You
can hope for something.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Now, absolutely, Okay. So you finish your career at North
Dakota State, don't finish your degree, right, you come back
to that. So we're gonna we'll fast forward later on
the podcast of that one. But you go in the
draft in nineteen eighty seven. You are the second to
last pick by the Denver Broncos twelve rounds, which doesn't
happen anymore, doesn't today i'd be a free agent, right,
(09:40):
you would be a free agent. Yeah. What was that
day like for you? Did you think you'd go earlier?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (09:45):
Yeah, okay, and so yeah, everybody always does.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
My agent was saying you're going to middle rounds, this
and that and so yeah. And I was at North
Dakota State, so we had the media and far Go
was at my house wday and wait for that call.
And you know, people started leaving right and it was,
you know, dinnertime, six seven, No one called, so then
(10:09):
everybody leaves. My roommates went to bed, and my phone
rings like it one twelve thirty one in the morning,
and actually it was the Green Bay Packers, you know
from Wisconsin.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I'm like cool.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
They're like, yeah, we're just waiting for this next team
to pick and then we're gonna pick you. And a
couple of seconds later like, oh no, they just picked
you and hung up Before I could ask, well, who
was it? The phone rings again as the Broncos. And
the funny part is, you know the draft was all
in one day back then, right, and so it was
Ginny Anne I remember, you know, from the Broncos. She
(10:40):
called me up and said, well, we drafted you, you
got to be on the flight at seven in the morning.
So I flew up, we flew out of Fargo the
next morning. Oh you know, then that's when I met
Ricky de Till, Michael Brooks, Mark Bumford, all these guys
in my class. Yeah, wow, Bruce Plumber the DV and
(11:01):
so yeah, we all met that day.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
The next day, so it was like up landing.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
What a whirlwind, right, and then boom, let's go wow.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
That's crazy. And then the second to last pick, which
I think is just you were almost mister irrelevant. Had
Green Bay picked you, you would have been mister irrelevant, right,
and look at how relevant you became. You end up
having thirteen years in the league.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Which is crazy.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah. I definitely was fortunate, and you know, uh just played.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
With a bunch of great players, hard worker, you know,
and I could just remember that first year after I
was drafted to come out here in the summer working
out with you know, Miller the Killer.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Al Miller was our strength coach.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Back there, pulling sleds and so we worked hard, right,
and so we had good teams and Dennis Smith was
really the guy that it was like the big defensive
back who was blowing people up, and so it was like, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Let's play.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
Interestingly enough, you were here in two different stints from
eighty seven to ninety three. You had a year in
Miami in ninety four, then you're ninety five to ninety nine.
So you go to two Super Bowls as a cornerback
in your first stint, and we don't like to talk
about those, right, two twenty four with Washington San Francisco,
But the other two we love to talk about because
that was the first one, super Bowl thirty two, and
(12:15):
you get a huge pick in that one that leads
to a touchdown, and then thirty three is also a win.
So what did you learn, Tyrone from the first two
losses that you could have taken then to the next ones?
I mean, I know, it all kind of builds up
and everything, and there was a lot in between because
the reason you left after the first time was they
were blaming the problems of the defense on you. Right,
(12:36):
your an escapegoat, right, and that's life, right, like you
must be the problem. But fun fact, in ninety four
they had a worse.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Defense than yeah, they started without you, right, and I
credit that year even though you know, I was mad.
I was pissed off. Did they would do that and
not re sign me, especially when Wade became the head
coach and he was decordinated when I was starting. But
then it worked out because you go to Miami and
the Broncos get worse. But then Miami is the team
(13:06):
that moved me to safety and so and that gave
me a chance. And then I was back up. So
when you're back up in the NFL, you're going against
the first team. So I'm going against Marino, right.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
And probably doing well.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah, and Marino he looked straight at the free safety
and then he looks to the right or left real quick.
He doesn't give you a hint where he stare you
down right, So you.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Had to be you had to be solid.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
What a great way to learn that position, right.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
And I was fortunate, right, Yeah, So I really appreciated that.
But yeah, what I took I guess from that question
is the way we prepared with Mike compared to dam
We're in New Orleans when we played Sam fran and
I will start in the corner of that game, and
you know, guys are going out doing things. But when
(13:55):
Mike came, it's like look we got regular practice, regular week.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
This is it's not a week to go party. So
was it a lot looser with Dan Reeves as far
as those those.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Dan would say, enjoy this, this is special, you know,
suck this in. Mike was like, look, this is our
regular thing, this is history, been doing. We got one
more time and that was solid.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
Interesting. I would have thought that Coach Reeves would have
been a little more of a hard ass about.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Stuff with and Landry and that history, those type of guys. Yeah,
I would have thought so too, But it was more
of enjoy this.
Speaker 5 (14:35):
And you were an enjoyer. Yeah, okay, no problem, check Mark.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
And you know Chicken and Rice let's go right.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Gosh.
Speaker 5 (14:50):
Yeah, speaking of Chicken, who was the first one to
call you that.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Randy Robbins? It was all from you know, they made
stuff up.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
Yes, it was just because she had skinny legs, right, okay,
and that's what it should have been. Is it something else?
Oh okay, the real story behind.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
But it was they said I was running a hen house.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
You know, I was on the phone with my old
college roommate, but there was a female in the room
with us, and there was a whole bunch of guys,
but everybody thought it was a woman on the phone.
So Randy Robbins the next day, Oh, chick tyrone running
a hen house and I said, ain't that a rooster?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Right?
Speaker 5 (15:32):
Oh my gosh, I've never heard that story. That's hilarious
because everybody just always thought it was your leg right, Like,
look at his little skinny legs.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
And that's what was my Chad Stark, the running back
from North Dakota State, he called me chicken legs, right.
I see them when we was.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Up and see you up and boat.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
He's like, hey, chicken legs right, And that's what you
know because of my legs right, calves right.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
But there were there were two meanings to chicken. Yeah,
the truth is covered, all right, Let's go back and
let's talk about Super Bowl thirty two and just what
an experience that was. I started covering. I started working
at KOA right after thirty two, so I was still
I was in the media, but just on the FM
side of things, working at KPPI, so I was I've
always been a fan and grew up here and that
(16:17):
was the first championship. It was unbelievable. The feeling in
the city was, I mean, nobody knew what to do
because we've just always been set up for disappointment for losing, Yeah,
and having gone through two losses yourself before that, to
win that one had to be unbelievable, right, And.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
It was something where I don't know if you kind of.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Remember that context, right, we you know, when you feel
like you go into Kansas City and win, then you
go into Pittsburgh and win, we can beat this World
champions on neutral turf. And I think that was our
context because we had did loss to Kansas City and
Pittsburgh in December of that year, and then confidence, right,
(17:01):
we look at sports now, when you got confidence, you know,
I can play against these guys, it does.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
One win stack on top of ends. Yeah, And so.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
That was special, right because yeah, I had was there
with those two horrible losses and then eight years later,
you know, me and Steve and you know John and Sharball,
these guys you know, and so it was it was
special because no one thought we could do it, but
U exactly us in the locker room, right, because we
(17:31):
were like, yeah, no matter. And it was Green Bay,
my team. I grew up with, my team I.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Love, Right, It's like, okay, let's play.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
So, yeah, that was a wonderful game, two heavyweights going
right back and forth.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
Yeah, yes, very much so, and such a different than
how it was against the Falcons. I think that would
have thirty three would have been a totally different game
had it been the Vikings, which it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
But were like, that's what all my buddies say from
the Falcon we should have been there.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, I can't help who we play exactly.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Games like that happened. So there you go. So you
come out of two time Super Bowl champ and what
then propels you to retire? Did you decide or was
it done for you? No?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
It was me because in between that first and second
Super Bowl I had shoulder surgery. Then that year a
lot of this people don't know, but you know, I
went back to Mike and was like, look, I need
some more money, and they was like, well, we're gonna
draft this young safety and we don't need it. And
of course he made that play, and so I was
(18:37):
back up all year to the playoffs, to the last
couple of regular season games.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
Right, who are you back up to?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Eric Brown?
Speaker 4 (18:45):
They drafted him, that's right.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Second round, right, And I had to shoulder surgery, and
you know, they made it say like oh my shoulder
wasn't right, this and that, but miraculously come to playoffs.
And of course then my last interception was against the Raiders,
seventy something yards. Tim Brown got me. I didn't score. Uh.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
And it was that year. I know it was that year.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
That was a tough year for you, wasn't it. I
kind of remember you in the locker room and it
was a surly time.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, yeah, And so I was I was salty.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
Yeah, salty.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
That's a good word.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
You were salty that year.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Then you know, we win the Super Bowl, Like you said,
it was over at halftime. We knew we had these people.
But the next year, you know, Steve's gone and then
I'm starting again. So I'm pissed my last season. I
didn't make no plays, didn't do anything. And that's when
I said I'm done. And I remember from Dan Reeves, right,
(19:44):
and I didn't realize it because I was young, but
I remember him like, look, if you ever come into
this game and you don't feel like you have that
that hunger, it's time to wrap it up. And I
didn't have it anymore.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
You realize that I didn't have it.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
I didn't feel working that hard to you know, pair
that shoulder and make sure everything was right. I was salty,
and so you know it was time. It was time.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
But all my.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Guys, you know, it was gone, right Steve, John Shannon,
you know, and.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Guys were leaving.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
And that's hard because you guys had had a really
close nucleus in that locker room, especially with thirty two
and thirty three.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Right, and I had played with John, you know, eleven
years right in the locker room right across. We'd mess
around and throw the ball at each other.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
You know, it was funny. It was fun stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
And so you know, it's kind of like when they
say someone's been married for many years and their spouse
leaves us and then they don't have the will to
go on anymore.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
This is kind of similar to me. Yeah, I wasn't
didn't have it.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
You were just all done at that point. Yeah, and
then what do you do? The gist of this podcast
of reinvention. And it took you a while to figure
out what you wanted to do because you had a
few years that were not so great, right, Yeah, In
two thousand and six, December two thousand and six, you
faced the media and said, hey, listen, I got a problem, man,
(21:08):
I got to get some some things figured out, drug
and alcohol wise, right.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
And that was the keyd And it took me a
minute even after that, did it?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Two thousand and six, after I first got arrested, almost
lost my family, which was the most difficult part, me
and my wife and my kids, and was gone for
a minute. So then I had to really think about, Okay,
what the hell do I want to do?
Speaker 5 (21:30):
It gets real real at that point, doesn't it.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, you know, when you got your family on the
line and you had a young son, young daughter.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
It took me a while to figure it out and
to think about.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
So I went back to when I regally went to Fargo,
North Dakota State, because you know, going there, I was
one hundred and fifty pounds graduating high school. I didn't
have no intention to make it to the NFL, so
I was going there to be my coach session, right.
I wanted to help out the kids in the neighborhood
and help them be successful and get out of college
and everything else.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
So I did some research and figured out social work.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Would be that for me. After I got the Bachelor's right,
so I had to go get back to the Bachelor's.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
How many credits short were you?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I was one semester, one semester, so.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
Did everything stay and transfer from all those years? Luckily,
my gosh.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Right, and so, but they said in order to graduate
you got to do one semester at least twelve credits.
And so even back when I was playing, they didn't
have no and I wasn't going back to Fargo.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
They didn't have online, right, there was no internet, right,
so right, so barely right, it was just eighty.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Three and then when I left in eighty six and
then eighty seven. Yeah, right, so it was it wasn't
for the masses right that way, yes, and so did
that some classes got a university studies degree. So because
I really was my major going in was physical education
coaching minor.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
Oh really truly did want to have football coach.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, and it's weird because I'm in schools now, right, Yes,
you are kind of the same thing, but helping out
on a different level, but being able to really figure
out who you are.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
And it takes a while, right, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Especially when I had to you know, work on my
personal my family finances all kinds of things and so
and then that's when you go back home and you
put your head down and your heart hat on and
go to work. Right.
Speaker 5 (23:30):
Yeah. Absolutely, So you get your bachelors from North Dakota
State at I think it was age forty five, to
finish your college degree. Where does the family like, how
did did you kind of do?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
What?
Speaker 5 (23:40):
It's all simultaneous working on the family for a little
while too, because I know there was a little bit
of separation in there, but then everybody came back together, right, Yeah, So.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
It was like a year and a half, two years separated,
but when I came back and got my bachelor's, we
would reconcile.
Speaker 5 (23:56):
Elizabeth was like, oh, maybe you really are for real?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Right, So it was doing it lot of meditation, a
lot of self help, self care, getting back into shape,
exercise and eating right, all the things that I let go, right.
But then when I got my bachelor's, I started working.
I don't know if you don't add at Gilliam which
is a juvenile detention center right up here on thirtieth
(24:20):
in Downing.
Speaker 5 (24:21):
I did see that you did that.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, So I worked there several years and was worked
as like security. What you would do. You'd come in
in the day and work a certain pod. Either it
was you know, the pod C was few people but
close to eighteen are getting ready to if they're getting
out or going to county jail. B was a lot
of the young, a whole bunch of them middle schoolers,
(24:45):
young high schoolers.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
And so I did that for.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
Seve And would you kind of counsel them when you
were there or just ye okay.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, yeah, because I would do groups all the time,
because I would after that, I think a year after
I started that is when I entered my social work program.
And that's when I knew that, Okay, well, I'm going
to do this just for the experience, but I can't
stay in that type of realm as far as punishment
(25:12):
and and I'm trying to do social work.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
Yeah, that's different things, yes, And that makes sense, right.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
And found that out where I work at now. Sometimes
when we work with Diversion, which was adolescent parole, and
they want you to take over one of.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Their kids for therapy and all this stuff. But then
it's different, right.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
Yeah, It's like you're trying to give them two different
types of treatment and that doesn't work very well.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Right right, Yeah, because therapy itself is more of acceptance
and compassion and let me help you where.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Other side is punitive, follow these.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
Rules, you're in trouble, very negative.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, and so totally two different things. And understand we
do need some time to lock some people up, yes right.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
Oh yeah, yeah, but that wasn't me right.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Right, So but I did that really for the experience.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
So yeah, I worked at GILA and it helped you
figure out exactly where you wanted to be. You knew
you didn't want that, but you wanted something to do
with helping these kids.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
And that's where yeah, and I talk about that a
lot with students. Right, try that experience.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yes, you might not work out, but then you know
this is not what you want.
Speaker 5 (26:21):
I tell people that all the time in this industry.
I'm like, I know you want to be on air,
but try all the other things because there might be
something else you like. If nothing else, you appreciate what
they do for the job that you really want to do, right,
and it makes you understand everything better.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
And I remember that from high school as well. I
mean so back in Wisconsin when I was growing up,
would have these summer jobs from fourteen to twenty one
till I stayed my last year at Fargo, and I
worked for the City of Madison, the parks department. So
two summers I worked in the cemetery. Two somemmers I
worked in the back of a garbage truck. And this
(26:57):
is not like the garbage trucks now. This is when
you had some on the back and they come and
pick it up and dumping it.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
There's no automatic garbage trucks now.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
So you're young, You're a teenager making some money, and
so I didn't care, but I knew I didn't want
to do this for the rest of my life. Right.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
Oh how funny. So when you eventually get your master's
degree at Metro State University and then.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Go to the Mental Health Center Denver, Okay, Mental Health
Center of Denver changed to well Power. They're a community
mental health for adults and children. It's so when you
get your master's of social work, just like an attorney
or someone else, you got to work two years in
an industry to get.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Licensed to be a therapist.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Okay, So I did case management work, and so I
did work with on a couple of grand teams where
I got people out of jail and prison and help
them become self sustainable. So that's what kind of led
up to my dissertation when we talk about that later. Yeah,
we helped them get physical health, mental health, housing, and employment.
(28:07):
We try to do all these things to help them
be self sustainable instead of taking from the system, contributing
to the system. Right, it's an easy thing we can do.
And so I got that experience. So you have to
do that for two years before you get your clinical
social work license and then you could go do therapy. Okay,
(28:29):
so yes, it's kind of a tricky situation, but yeah,
I love that experience working there too because I got
deep in to see what really happening in society. Sometimes
we see what we see in the tech center is
not what we see up here in five points Oh yeah, right, yeah,
and so and when I'm driving over here this morning
(28:50):
and I'm looking and look at that all these nice
new apartments next to the.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Light rail and all this other stuff.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
It was like, okay, yeah, And I live in the
city and work in the city, and I work with
the kids whose parents work in the city.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
So just know that there's different life out there.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
Absolutely there are, and we want.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
To respect them all and accept them all.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Right, that's awesome. What made you decide you wanted to
be a doctor and get your HD?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Why did I want it? I still didn't figure that out, right,
and it was so hard.
Speaker 5 (29:23):
Oh my gosh, how long did it take you?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah, it took me like seven years.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
And you know, my wife would be like, you know,
because I'd worked full time and then on the weekends
when you.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
First start off, you got a couple.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Of years of classes, and so I go to work,
and I go to class downtown and be like a
three hour class, come home eight o'clock, you know, do
some reading and writing, go to bed. But then the
weekends that's all I did. But then the last couple
of years, when you're doing your dissertation is I'm doing
(29:57):
the research, right, So I got to design it.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I got to put and my researchers.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
I interviewed people African American men with PTSD of depression
when they got out of prison to look at their
re entry process, meaning what happens when they get out,
how do they get housing, how did they get appointment,
and compared it to recidivism, which is to return to prison,
(30:22):
which is high in Colorado. Ok we're like one of
the highest states with yes people returning to prison.
Speaker 5 (30:29):
Interesting, why is that right?
Speaker 1 (30:31):
And come to find out, a lot of it was
they changed some laws right before I started my research,
and so right now the recidivism rate is going to
be a lot better. But they changed the laws where
they didn't put the parole officers and the board. They
took away some of their power of being able to
send people back for technical violations. When we say you
(30:55):
miss an appointment, you didn't get a job yet, or
you got dirty. UA's a fine line when do we
want to really send somebody at So a lot of
people would go back to prison for technical violations without
committing a crime.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Oh okay, and we was.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Highest in the country for that, and that's what contributed
to it. So they changed some laws in some policies
around what really Yeah, what justifies sending somebody back to prison,
because you know what you're paying for it?
Speaker 5 (31:27):
And so I was just gonna say for a misappointment,
the taxpayers pay for that.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
And when you look.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
At it, Colorado, it's like a billion dollars to house
about twenty thousand people.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Wow, you know, we're not even like California. Florida, New York.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Right, we only got twenty thousand, but it cost us
nine hundred and something million.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Wow, And what we looked.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
At, when I looked at really two was thirty percent.
So three hundred million was technical violations. That was my
dissertation when I found that, whoa, and that's.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
A lot of money, tyrone, that's a ton of money
and a.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Lot of and it was like seventy five percent of
those was not a new crime.
Speaker 5 (32:08):
Had anybody done this kind of research before? You're the
first one that did it right and behind it opened
some eyes.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
To some politicians, I would say.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
The legislation, they notice.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
And they had started that work of changing that policy,
so they already had been doing it. The Colorado Criminal
Justice Reform Coalition, they've been into this for years and.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
But the fact that you had your research to show
them had to be huge, right.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
And to show and she's like, oh, yeah, that kind
of makes sense of what we've been talking about all
this time. And you know, so they're like they're the
top nonprofit organization in the state Criminal Justice Reform Coalition,
and so they've been talking a lot about that. It's
hard getting you know, just like policy just like the
federal government. We got our own state stuff. Yes, have
(32:56):
their own opinion, But when you look at it for
someone like you and me and were paying the three
hundred million for someone who really didn't commit a crime,
that's a lot of money.
Speaker 4 (33:06):
That's a lot of money.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
That could be for schools, that could be for health care,
that could be for a lot of things.
Speaker 5 (33:13):
That's amazing. You did that and open some eyes and
solidified what was already kind of being done. Right, that's
a huge tyron. That's very cool, And I really had
to be very rewarding.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yes, it was to really see it because at first,
you know, I wanted to compare recentivism. What was the
differences between the people who didn't recitivate and.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
The people who did.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
I wanted to look at five different areas of life,
which was criminal justice, housey, employment, mental health, in the
neighborhood where they.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Live at right, so five.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Well, then I found out in my research none of
these guys went back to prison, and so I started
having to look at it from a different way. It's like,
what's going on here? So that's when I got deeper
into some power. Let's he changes some law and changes
where the guys lived at and who they were hooked
up with and how.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
So you dug deep.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, and that's the name of my dissertation, A Deeper
Look at re Entry from Prison. Oh wow, I wanted
to go past the numbers.
Speaker 5 (34:17):
Yeah, go past the statistics don't tell you what you
really need to know.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
In anything, right, even in sports?
Speaker 5 (34:22):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah. I talk about that too, and people are.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Like, well, look, this team got more yards, they got
the best yard is they got. Well, you know, we
gotta go a little deeper than that yardis don't mean everything.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
You don't play a game on paper, right, You can
win a game on paper and not win the game
on the field.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
And that happens all the time, all the time.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Nuggets.
Speaker 5 (34:40):
Just because Nicola has another triple double doesn't mean they're
gonna win. That's so funny. Okay, So you finish up
your PhD just this past December, Do you just feel
like you have a whole new lease on life with
your time?
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah? I feel like what am I going to do? Right?
Speaker 1 (34:57):
It's like I got the weekends free.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
It's like.
Speaker 5 (35:01):
You gotta start going to Broncos game.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
And that was that was the bad thing too. Because
my daughter, you know, she lives in Low High and
got a good job. It's like, Dad, let's go to the
Bronco game.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
You know, I'm like, I gotta finish study. I got it.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, fifty something years old, fifty eight years old, I
got to study.
Speaker 5 (35:21):
All right, Well that'll change this fall. Now you can
start doing that. But and your kids are doing fantastic
from what you said. Chloe's got a great job. Your
son's got great grades, like I mean.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Just he is.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
But you know, of course, Chloe is very smart, really intelligent,
been with the same group of people kind of for
her last since her last eight years, since she graduated college.
She's working for a pharmaceutical company on the Boulder. He
real smart, moved up. My son is in his last
month of law school. He's at Columbia, So he's going
(35:55):
to have two doctors. He's gonna be a juris doctor.
That I'll be my own daughter and his family.
Speaker 5 (36:01):
Right, How cool is that?
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, But he's always been that way. Just me and
my wife just had to get out of his way.
Speaker 5 (36:08):
And sometimes we have to do that.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Yeah, yeah, you know, and I kind of knew it.
I should have known it. I probably didn't. But I
remember first second grade taking him to Bromwell to school,
right driving to school and I'm late, running late for work.
I gotta do some stuff, and he starts balling in
the background. I'm like, what's going on, what's happening. He's like,
I forgot my homework, Miss So, and So's gonna be
(36:33):
so mad. We gotta go back and get it. I said,
I'm late.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
We're not going back. But I should have known that
he was serious.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
And all through middle school, high school, he'd come home
do his work and he'd go play his video games.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
My daughter was a lot.
Speaker 5 (36:47):
Different, right, They're always opposite. Were like that too.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, so it so. But yeah, he worked hard.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
He got a couple of clerkships lined up and in
New York and taking a bar this summer.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
So you know, it's sad because he'll stay out.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
There probably so, but you got your daughter here for now,
which is great, good, you know, And what's interesting. So
you look at, you know, your experience growing up in
Madison and kind of and I read a lot about
you know, your friends, and I know when you finished
high school you had two brothers that were in prison
at that point. So those surroundings, you know, can set
up some things. Just twenty years ago was when you
(37:26):
were in front of the news camera saying, all right,
I got busted and I got to get my stuff together.
And then here we are two decades later, your marriage
is repaired, your kids are doing great. You needed that reinvention,
that turnaround, that come to Jesus so to speak of
of this is what I got to do with my life.
For I'm going down that same path as everybody that
you had grown up with.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Right right, And I knew it could change, right because
the main reason why I started the dissertation was my brother.
He's a year ordered me, and he had got twenty
five years in Wisconsin. And so after eleven years, they
were like, yeah, you can get out, but you can't
(38:08):
stay in Wisconsin when they knew I was playing here
football for the Broncos. So I said, yeah, you come in,
move in with me, the wife of my daughter. He
got out after eleven years. He's on a year old
and me missed all his twenties. He went out, found
a job, he got a wife and kid. Now he
works and never went back. And so that's what was
(38:31):
the main impetus of my research too, was what is
the difference for the people who go back. When my
brother had opportunity, you gave him off and he ran
with it. But he came into an environment where he
wasn't back on East Cofax, right, he wasn't pressured where
you got to get a job, any job, right. I
gave him a vehicle, He drove a car, he went
(38:52):
to parole meetings down in Inglewood.
Speaker 5 (38:54):
What a gift.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, And that's what got me thinking about it. And
that's the only way my rear came about so wonderfully.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Was that life experience?
Speaker 1 (39:04):
I seen that, not everybody, because but I knew I
had a lot of friends who've been in and out,
in and out, guys I worked with at Mental Health
Center Denver, in and out, in and out. What was
the difference. A lot of people don't have opportunity to change.
They get thrown back, their standing in a motel on Cofax.
They don't have a job, can't get a job, people
won't hire them. You can't live in a safe place
(39:26):
because a lot of rental companies won't rent the person
with a felony in the background.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
There's a lot of disadvantages from social and one.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Of my theories of my research was social determinants of health,
the social policies and.
Speaker 5 (39:41):
Laws and the stigma is attached to that.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yes, and so, but I seen firsthand. I seen on
the hand with people in and out, in and out.
But I've seen firsthand. My brother got out, never went back,
kept the same job, he had a house, motorcycle family.
Speaker 4 (39:59):
That's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
You know, I've been working at the same place for
twenty years.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
Because you gave them the helping hands, right, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, and that's yeah, that's what I think about when
I'm working with the students.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
Yeah. So what is it that you do right now?
You do a lot of work with students at different schools, right, Okay, So.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
I'm the manager of Denver Health for the STEP program,
which is stands for Substance Treatment, Education and Prevention. Kids
who get caught smoking in the bathroom, doing stuff teenagers
middle schoolers do come sit down with me or my
team and therapists and helped them, you know, figure out,
(40:37):
you know, is this really helpful? And we teach them
other ways to cope with because a lot of kids
have anxiety depression experiences with trauma, so we help them
learn to manage those emotions, thoughts, and feelings.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
That's great, that's what therapy is.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Yea, right, absolutely, I love.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
It and bring a lot of my own personal stuff
you to it.
Speaker 5 (40:59):
People can't, but you go, he don't know what he's
talking about.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
You know what you're talking about, like you didn't live
that life?
Speaker 5 (41:06):
Well, yeah, you didn't go and then some yeah all right, Tyrone.
Last question for you. I ask all my guests this,
as you look back on your life, and now you
get the great opportunity to do this with students when
they are down or having those moments, is there anything
in particular you kind of tell them to be able
to pick up and just keep going, because sometimes you
(41:27):
just need that person to give you that little bit
of positive energy or reinforcement.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Really is supporting them, right, showing compassion, not saying you'll
get over this. No, this does hurt. We can move
past it, but it does hurt and experience this emotion,
and that's a big part of substance use or any
type of addiction, gambling, sex, whatever it is. It's about.
(41:54):
We're running from our emotion, this traumatic experience, this lack
of neglect, abuse, and so we're so busy trying to
run from these emotions that I'm gonna drink, I'm gonna smoke,
I'm gonna do whatever to not feel it. Sometimes we
have to experience it, And especially when I'm working with
(42:15):
kids who play high school sports, I say, look, you've
got anxiety all the time, right, tell me what you
experienced before a game. And I know for me, I've
played many a year, twenty something years out of my
thirty five when I retired from football, and I always
felt scared and anxious before a game. I never felt like, all,
this is easy, No, couldn't eat.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Yeah, So I let them know that. So when you
play sports and you you have that feeling before a game,
then you get out there and you just start playing
and everything works out. That's you dealing with that emotion.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
That's a great analogy, right, And.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
So we help to experience it, not run from it,
but we move past it. We go past it. So
once we.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Keep having that path, it becomes easier. Right, a row
like a rut in the road, it's easy to go
through that path.
Speaker 5 (43:08):
Wow, I'm so proud of you and just thrilled that
you're doing so great. And I mean it was fun
to cover you and you play with the Broncos, and
then to see what you've done all these years later
in a true reinvention of everything in your life, and
yet it's all come back together with your family and
everything else. It's it's pretty cool, right, yeah, it's something else.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
It is wonderful. It's you know, of course, we got
a whole bunch of problems in this country, but it's
wonderful for me to work down on that direct care
level with the kids and help.
Speaker 5 (43:41):
That's what's really important. We can't there's a lot of
stuff up here that we can't do anything about it.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
We can't control, but you.
Speaker 5 (43:47):
Can't control the things on the on your own level there,
so and you're doing that.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
And that's what's important. And that's all the time.
Speaker 5 (43:54):
I love it, Tyrone. Thank you for coming in. This
was so fun. Yes, and let's see at some Bronco
games this fall. K all right, thanks Tyrone.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Thank you so much, Tyrone. New episodes of Cut, Traded, Fired,
Retired are released on Tuesdays. Please follow and download this
podcast wherever you listen to podcasts, and keep up on
new releases by following on Twitter and Instagram at ctfur
podcast and also on the website ctfrpodcast dot com. If
you like this episode, share it with someone or share
(44:23):
the whole podcast. There are some great guests on here.
I'm your host, Susie Wargen. To find out more about me,
visit susiewargin dot com. Thank you for listening, and until
next time, please be careful, be safe and be kind.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
Take care
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