Ep #15-The Legal Side of Success: From SC Grad to Valley Titan-The Amir Afsar Story

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Amir Afshar, a prominent Coachella Valley attorney, shares his unconventional journey from USC rejection to becoming a respected business and real estate lawyer with his own practice spanning 16 years.

• Early social media adoption for law practice marketing when traditional advertising was cost-prohibitive
• Turning educational rejection into motivation after being denied USC admission despite meeting requirements
• Balancing immigrant parents' high expectations with personal career aspirations
• Transitioning from working at a small firm to establishing his own successful practice
• Teaching entrepreneurship at Cal State San Bernardino to help students understand business realities
• Volunteering as an auctioneer for local school fundraisers
• Debunking the myth that argumentativeness makes good lawyers, emphasizing problem-solving skills instead
• Explaining the critical difference between technical skills and business acumen for entrepreneurs
• Maintaining separate business and personal finances to preserve corporate legal protections
• Finding creative outlets beyond legal practice to express different aspects of personality

Find Amir on social media or at AfsarLaw.com for legal assistance with business and real estate matters.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is going on?
Everyone?
I'm Robert Mraz and this isVeena Mraz and this is CV Hustle
, the podcast dedicated tosupport and inform local
entrepreneurship here in ourCoachella Valley, and the goal
on this show, guys, is really tobring you the titans of
industry here in the CoachellaValley, and today's guest really
does fit that bill.
He's not only the best lawyerthis side of the windmills, he's

(00:23):
also a law professor.
He's one of the best at doingit here in the Valley.
Today's guest, mr Amir Afshar.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Thank you for coming on in hey, good to see you.
You can do my introductionanytime.
Like big titan of industry.
I like that one.
I know, we do it big here.
We do it big Five-five.
Not often I get Titan ofanything.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Titan of industry.
Let's do it.
Let's do it.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Titan of industry From now on.
You heard it, that's right.
You've kept us out of a lot oftrouble, you earned it.
That's no easy task with thisone right here, and you have a
lot of my money.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Well.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
I don't know.
I want it back.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
I think I should have more of it, frankly.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
No, you're awesome, we love it.
Okay, so we've been trying toget you to come down here.
In fact, I feel like you shouldautograph my arm or something
Like yes, he's here, right.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Right, I mean, it is a local celebrity site.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
I don't know about that.
I might have had a couple feetin the you know social media
fire earlier than maybe mostpeople, let's just say.
And the funny thing is, now I'mnot doing nearly as much of it
as I used to be doing, and so alot of people ask me hey, what's
going on?
Or why aren't you doing it now?
But you know, for me the socialmedia stuff was a necessity,

(01:38):
right, like a lot of peopletoday they're getting into it.
I don't know it's accessible toeverybody.
Now, right, like you and Italked before we even got on
this thing about, like, the costof setting up the studio and
kind of the expenses associatedwith it.
So when I was doing Unbillable,my vlog or whatever and the
videos are still posted onYouTube, you can check it out.

(01:59):
Shameless plug, hold on.
The funny thing about theshameless plug is there's
nothing posted.
I love it.
I don't think I have a newvideo in over four years now.
So there's really nothing forme to plug.
It's just sort of sitting outthere in the you know YouTube
sphere, whatever you want tocall that right the world, but
for me there wasn't a way for meto create advertising in a cost

(02:20):
effective manner when I had abrand new law firm.
So I had a brand new law firmand you have some big spending
attorneys, attorneys that,frankly, aren't even in the
space that I am Like I dobusiness and real estate and
most of the advertisers you see,like call them on the sevens.
Our buddy, walter Clark, hedoes personal injury.
He's not even doing the sametype of work I do, oh my gosh so

(02:41):
.
But most people just know thatname, know that phone number,
and so he has like an enormousnet, right?
So how do you kind of get someposition in the marketplace for
yourself when you have a budgetof roughly zero?

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Well, and stand out.
Stand out from the rest, right?

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, Well, stand out from the rest is part of it,
but a big, huge piece of it iswhat does it cost you to post on
Instagram?
What does it cost you to poston social media?
And, quite frankly, there's alot of eyes there, right?
Oh yeah, so if you can't affordto do the traditional newspaper
, you can't afford to do thetraditional television ad
billboard.
Those are things out here,right?
At least the internet.

(03:12):
And again, I'm not talkingtoday, it's obvious a little bit
, but back then I got a lot oflike you're crazy for doing this
stuff, but the idea.
Frankly, I used to watch a lotof Gary Vee.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
I love Gary Vee.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
And Gary Vee, especially back then, used to
tell you like right into thecamera, don't listen to what I'm
saying, watch what I'm doing.
Yeah, and I was like, okay, Ican hear that I could do that
and so I'm a creative person.
The law practice is not verycreative.
I need a way to advertisemyself and sort of an idea was
born that I would just do, kindof a Gary V style vlog, shout

(03:51):
out to Gary V if he's listening,so you want to know what I got
from that conversation.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
Amir is the Bitcoin of crypto.
Wow.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
No, no, I'd rather be like a you know what?

Speaker 2 (04:03):
I don't think anybody knows yet.
If Bitcoin is, I mean Dude howdo you know money?
Listen, I don't even own onecoin.
I own no crypto of any sort.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't?

Speaker 3 (04:12):
I'm not saying that to people.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
But I'm conservative by nature.
Like I might own like stock inthis bad boy because I know what
they sell.
I know how they make theirmoney.
If I don't understand it, thenI won't.
I don't usually put my money in, generally speaking, all right,
not to say I have friends thathave made a lot of money on the
bitcoin stuff.
I actually remember a goodfriend of mine I'm not going to
say his name, but told me to buya bitcoin when it was like a

(04:34):
thousand dollars a coin.
He straight up told me like hey, amir, you're like a lot more
successful than I am.
You got a little bit of money.
If you could just put a couplegrand into this, I promise you
it'll be something big one dayand I mean real talk.
I told him like hey, I don'tthink I'm interested in that.
And then I in my own mind, Ithought to myself the reason I
got money to do stuff like thisand I don't do stupid stuff like
that and I don't even know.

(04:55):
I know he has some bitcoin theguy I'm talking about, whose
name will remain nameless forthis conversation but I don't
know how many he has, and godbless the guy.
He was right, was wrong.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
I had the same conversation a couple of years
ago and shooting myself in thefoot.
You know, for that one man Ishould have took the leap man,
because you'd be up ahundredfold right now.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Listen, of course, and then like just like I always
use Vegas as an example If yougo to Vegas and you win, you
tell that story a thousand times.
You go to Vegas and you lose,you basically don't tell anybody
.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
You're like oh, I had fun.
It was cool, yeah, you know sothis is the same thing.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Anybody who made a ton of money off of bitcoin is
going to talk about it a hundredtimes.
Anybody who didn't make anymoney off of it or who bought
something like that hawk to agirl's coin and lost all their
money they're not going to talkabout it very much.
All of a sudden, so you know yougot to be careful.
When you listen to that kind ofstuff, people tend to cheerlead
a little bit.
I mean that's in all walks oflife, right, but in the Bitcoin
area kind of in particular.

(05:46):
But me personally I don'tunderstand it, so I kind of stay
away from it?

Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, that was always my contention.
It's like what is it, you know?
Like what is this?
What am I buying, you know?
But I've since been informed,but I still haven't pulled the
trigger.
I have people yelling the timethat I'm an idiot, and they're
probably right.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
I mean it's just the boom and bust nature of the
thing kind of scares me.
Look, you can't win all of thethings all of the time and I've
just accepted that that it looksrisky to me and I might not get
into it yeah, so make money theold-fashioned way in dollars.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
You know, I guess still putting your money under
the mattress, okay, I?

Speaker 3 (06:20):
have a question, let's under the mattress.
Let's move along.
I want to know because when wefirst met you, uh-oh, no, no,
it's nothing bad, but you kindof we were like, how did you get
started in this?
Because I think you should be astand-up comedian.
So I want to know, how did thiscome to be?
Because you're a SC guy, right,go Trojans, that's right.

(06:40):
Fight Trojans.
So how did this all happen?
I want to know, yeah.
So this all when did you go tohigh school and then you went to
college and did you always wantto be a lawyer.
Did you love reading?
I love reading.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
No.
So all right, to some extent Ihave parents who are very
serious about education, right,my mom and dad are immigrants to
the United States.
In the 70s, before I was born,in the early 70s, they were here
.
My mom was kind of updating hereducation she's a physician and
my father was just kind ofworking, I guess kind of like
side jobs, basically you knowodds and end type jobs and then

(07:18):
kind of working at a restaurant,in particular when they came to
the United States.
Men type jobs and then kind ofworking at a restaurant, in
particular when they came to theUnited States.
My father in Iran was anofficer in the military, has his
master's in agriculturalengineering.
Like I said, my mother's aphysician.
So both of my parents areeducated, or highly educated, I
should say.
And so for them.
Like I just always use theexample of high school,

(07:41):
graduation was never thought ofas a big deal.
My parents made no commentwhatsoever.
It was treated like theequivalent of like a fifth grade
graduation.
Yeah, it was expected of you.
No, trophy for you, it wasnothing to be celebrated, it was
just standard.
Everybody graduates high schoolto be expected College.
You graduate from a university.
Now that's where we're going tohave some kind of celebration,
because that's where you've donesomething, then you're worthy,

(08:03):
then you're worthy.
Yeah, you're worthy of it,right?
So education was always reallybig.
I just actually last night wastalking to a friend of mine.
We're raising our own kids, soit's kind of crazy the things
that you pick up and the thingsyou try not to pick up from your
own parents, if you will.
But my parents were kind of A's.
Only you got A's or you gotpunished, basically.

(08:23):
And so it doesn't mean I alwaysgot A's, it means sometimes I
got punished.
But the moral of the story isthe standards were extremely
high and they were kept that way, sort of famously, at my law
school graduation I thank my momfor always keeping her high
heel shoe in my back, because mymom is a pusher and a presser
and she's probably right nowsaying I'm not doing this right.
She's watching this kind ofthing.
That Probably right now sayingI'm not doing this right.

(08:43):
You know she's watching thiskind of thing.
That's just who she is.
I love her for it and Iwouldn't have it any other way.
But so education, you know, tokind of go back to that was just
a fundamental.
You're going to do this, nomatter what.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
But wanting to be a lawyer like or like were you
wanting, I didn't want to.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
I didn't want to be a doctor.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
OK, you didn't have to be an ob-gyn, but you had to
be a doctor.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
So if you weren't a doctor or a lawyer, what else
would have been acceptable?
Or nothing else?
No, no, I don't think there'sanything.
I mean, I don't think lawyer,necessarily, is even sometimes
acceptable.
Right, my parents wanted me tobe a doctor, they wanted my
sister to be a doctor.
They want you to be a doctor.
They want both of you to be adoctor.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
Tell them you were saved my life.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
No, no, I mean no, no , I appreciate that and I tell
my mom all the time I have adoctorate degree.
It's just in jurisprudence it'snot the same.
But you know, that's just thetruth of it.
I think my father, god rest hissoul, was a little more open to
other things, right?
But mom, it's doctors, doctorsfirst.
And you know, I get it.
I got respect for it.
But yeah, it's just, I didn'twant to deal with blood, I

(09:46):
didn't want to deal with any ofthat stuff.
I got my hardest classes, myworst grades were science.
It was kind of a sign thatmaybe medicine wasn't it for me.
Of course, having a motherwho's a physician, she had me
volunteer like all the time inthe hospital.
I hated it all the time.
I resisted it all the time.
So it's kind of maybe just Iknew that wasn't for me.
I really wanted to be a sportsagent.

(10:07):
I had an opportunity, you know,kind of early on to meet some
higher up sports agents, go to acouple of things where they
spoke at and I was informed thatbasically, like four sports
agents eat steak and the other400 eat like McDonald's in an
airport somewhere, and I didn'tlike the way that sounded and so
like that just didn't fit forme, like I didn't want to live

(10:28):
my life on the road or like Ihate to travel, kind of
generally speaking.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
So it just didn't fit me.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
I think that might have been a little bit of the
Jerry Maguire movie Sure, andthe fact that I love sports in
general, but I'm not tall enoughto be a basketball player, big
enough to be a football player,fast enough for to be anything.

Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah, but you got the personality to get a deal, yeah
, so exactly.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
That's kind of what I was thinking.
I got the brain side of it.
I had the privilege of actuallytaking classes at USC with
Carson Palmer.
Before I went to USC, Iactually went to University of
Arizona and dropped out becauseI didn't like it While I was
there named Mike Bibby, if youknow basketball you might know
that name.
And so I got kind of a front rowseat to some of the.
You know what the next level ofsports would look like, if you

(11:09):
will, because Carson Palmer, hissenior year, was, you know,
heisman Trophy winner, you knowleading the top program and yeah
.
Mike Bibby.
His freshman year took U of Ato the national championship.
I had agents and you know thosetypes of characters knocking
and stuff around so I got a verygood you know view, if you will
, of kind of those you know.
Not that I got to be in any ofthose meetings, don't get me

(11:30):
wrong.
No, but I mean, you heard aboutit, you could see the like moons
circling around the planetsthat these guys were, and you
already knew that they weregoing to make it in the next
level early, early in thecollege.
They just stood up early, earlyin the college right, they just
stood up.
They had that right.
Palmer may be a little lessthan Bibby, but Palmer had all
the tools and all the kind ofphysical characteristics.
So when he put it all togetherI don't think that many people

(11:52):
were really like surprised by itright, he was the golden boy.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
So when you went to USC, that's where you met your
wife.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
That is where I met the missus.
Yes, I met the missus at usc,that's true.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
I did everything I could to not, to to like, not
make that happen, bullshit youtold me that you were like I'm
gonna put a ring on it as soonas I can, so she can't well okay
, so there's, there's two sidesunder contract, yeah, get her
under contract.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
So there's, there's two sides of this right.
Like it's one of those thingsand most men will agree but not
admit it.
It's like you chase this person, you chase this woman because
you're really into her, you likeher, you know beautiful, great
personality, you kind of seemotherly qualities, like that's
the next level.
In my opinion, that's what Imaybe thought with her might be
the thing.
I don't think I'm supposed toreference that hand symbol.

(12:43):
But you see these kind ofpositive qualities and you chase
them, but like you kind of feeltoo young to get married.
So the next thing, you know,it's like I like to use the
phrase I chased her until shecaught me Right, like I really
pursued her but then in the endI was like almost trying to
resist getting married.
I was like I'm not you know,I'm not done with law school.
I'm not done with law school.
I don't know if we should belike we've been together for so

(13:05):
long there's all these othergirls that I need a chance at
the title right.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
I still got my running shoes on.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
I really hope she's not watching any of this nobody
will see this.
But no, I had no plans to meet,like you know, anything long
term at college.
But you know it was all about Ihad a.
Let me go back a little bit.
So I went to university Arizona.
I hated it.
I dropped out.
I went to junior college Harborcollege, took a double load,

(13:33):
got into USC.
And then it was like no messingaround.
I kind of felt like straightdisrespect when I didn't get
into USC out of high school,like I, I had all the
requirements on paper to get inand then I didn't get in and uh,
I kind of took it on the chin.
Uh, I was one of those kidshigh school senior year wearing
USC year.
I was so sure I was going Right, and so it just was a real,

(13:54):
real blow to like the personalego yeah.
The ego and just who you areRight.
Next thing, I'm at U of a.
I'm trying to rep the U of A,get into it like, okay, I like
Arizona, this is cool, and Ijust couldn't do it.
And then it came to like youknow sports.
To come back to it next, youknow, it's like I hear that
we're gonna play USC atsomething.
I'm like, oh, I'm supposed tolike root against USC.
Now that's gonna be tough.
And then, to be honest, therewas a couple days in a row where

(14:16):
I just really didn't feelcomfortable there.
I didn't really like it.
Martin Luther King didn't havea holiday in the state of
Arizona in 1996.
And they adopted it and I justfelt like this wasn't the spot
for me.
It just didn't feel right.
I missed LA.
I'm a kid born and raised likenot born but raised in the South
Bay, torrance, lomita, all theway to Palos Verdes.

(14:37):
That's where I went to highschool, palos Verdes, peninsula
and so I really wanted to let'sjust take life by the horns.
And so I dropped out of U of A,like against my parents' wishes
, straight up.
My parents thought I ruined mylife and went to junior college
and took it really seriously,got into USC, got straight A's,
so there wasn't gonna be like aquestion for the transfer.
And then when I got to USC, Itook it super seriously because

(15:00):
I didn't want to do the samething for law school.
Right, it's like I knew Iwanted to law school, so let's
get really good grades.
I applied to eight law schools.
I didn't apply to all the bestones, like stanford or whatever,
but the eight I applied to Igot into all eight.
I chose right onto the lawschool and then you know, from
there, it's just that was theturning point for me, right.
It's like, um, I worked reallyhard, I thought I could achieve
this thing.
I applied.
I thought for sure they wouldwant me.
Who wouldn't want me?
And then to get rejected.

(15:21):
That was a real wake-up calllike I'm never letting that
happen again I love it.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
It's the fuel that burns right.
It's like, ah, look everyvillain has a story.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Every.
I say it straight out right,like every villain has that
story.
Or, you know, you could sayhero too.
Right, every superhero has thatlike background story.
And for me, um, it really was I.
The day I got rejected, uh,from usc, I sat at the mailbox
for four hours.
I didn't come back inside thehouse I didn't even I actually
technically my my uh mom and Imean I get a little when I talk
about this, but my parents never, I never told them I didn't get

(15:54):
in.
I actually never, ever saidthat to them, I just never.
Like my sister was is sevenyears older than me, so she
started asking me, like hey,whatever happened to your usc
application?
And I would just tell her hey,just drop, just drop it, you're
like shut it.
But I never actually verballytold my parents I didn't get in
To this day.
Well, no, they know You're allsurprised, but no.
I don't think I ever actually-.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
Didn't they tell them the?

Speaker 1 (16:13):
story that you were hiding that for a couple years.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah, no, they know now yeah, I gave the keynote
address address for One Future,coachella Valley, a few years
ago, okay, and they wanted me totalk just to give a story about
success to like a bunch ofcollege students that had
scholarships, and I decided totell my story about how, you
know, I had all these greatgrades.
I went to University of Arizonaschool Most people are super
proud to go to, and I was notproud to be there and I had

(16:38):
parents telling me just keepgoing to class, it's fine, it
doesn't matter, just fine, itdoesn't matter, just get your
degree, that's what matters.
And you know, if you don'trespect the diploma, if you
don't respect the name at thetop of it, like what's it worth
Right and so that for me thatwasn't going to work.
That wasn't going to work.
And then it happened to be atthe time, arizona and USC being
in the same sports league, beingthe PAC 10 or PAC 12, that

(16:58):
wasn't going to fly.
I was going to have a hard timerooting against the Trojans
Right.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
You're like no way man.
I've been growing up with this.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Funny thing is, when I applied to USC with my junior
college grades, I got a bunch oflike scholarship applications
to like better, highly higherranked schools, but by then it
was like nah, nah, like I wantto go to USC.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
So it was a straight USC.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Well we don't got a football team, so we always root
for USC.
Yeah, no, that's.
You know, two of my bestfriends went to UCLA.
So, like you know, my love forUSC is strong.
But I'm not ridiculous Like Iwant my kids to go to a good
school.
If it happens to be likeStanford, so be it, a problem
with it.
But if they think they're goingto get me in some you know,
whatever other school gear Nothappening, you're not wearing
the Stanford tree, huh, Unlessit's a Firebird shirt.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Well, the Firebirds, they don't play.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
You know, that's different, they're not playing
against USC and that's just thelocal gig you got to represent
the town.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
Speaking of local.
How did you come her family'shere?

Speaker 2 (17:59):
she's a palm desert high school grad, no shit.
And coincidentally, at the timemy dad had a kidney transplant
and my parents came out herelike snowbirds from la, of
course, to recover.
Yeah, my parents had a like agetaway place out here, a small
spot that they kind of slowlythen got a bigger spot in a
bigger spot because they werespending more time here.
Yeah, uh, and then, uh, aftermy dad had his kidney transplant
, uh, he had his recovery here.

(18:20):
He lived quite a bit like 10more years after it and
everything but, then you knowthey lived here full-time after
that so so, you guys, but it wasit was chasing her.
It was definitely.
It was a good excuse.
I wanted to live.
I wanted to live in redondobeach.
I wanted to live by the water.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Oh, yeah, right until you see the prices it costs to
live there, you're like I waslike I'm gonna go, I'm gonna be
a lawyer, I'm gonna have abeachfront, whatever.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
I had this big in my mind, a big plan, but none of it
happened.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
So when you chased your girl down here, were you at
that point still thinking I'mgoing to go work for somebody
with this law degree?
Am I going to open up?
How did you kind of come to thedecision I'm just going to do
this myself and head on myself?

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Well, I had pretty good opportunities in LA because
of connections my mom had,quite frankly.
So I left some kind of goodopportunities behind to come out
here.
So at that point, yeah, it wasjust a matter of waiting to get
my bar results.
And then I figured I'd work forsomeone I always knew I wanted
to do my own thing.
I always knew I wanted to havemy own office, and that's
because my mom had her ownmedical office.
So I just thought that wasattractive to me to be your own
boss.
And so the summer internshipswhile I was in law school I

(19:24):
worked for a law practice thatwas one, two, three guys, like a
small office.
I always kind of kept it insmall, small offices.
And when I came out here I gota job at a small office.
So part of that was because Ifigured I could kind of pick,
pick and choose the high, the,the, the, the good qualities,
the high spots, as I was goingto say right when the money is
right Well, not just where themoney is, but how to treat
people like how to treat clients, how to treat staff Like.

(19:47):
I just think when you're a500-person law firm, you don't
necessarily have to knoweverybody's name, right?
But when you're three guys youdefinitely need to know
everybody or whatever right.
Even now it's just me andMarlene, so you know.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Marlene and I.
So when you took that job withthose guys, were you doing the
same type of law or like, can alawyer do?
Right, you have to kind ofchoose a lane, don't you?

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, I mean when you come out of law school, you
could do.
I mean, generally speaking,that's where you choose your
lane, but if at any moment, youwant to hit the turn signal and
shift, you don't have to doanything to do that.
You just have to say you'redoing this now or whatever.
Right, um, those guys?

(20:30):
Uh.
So in in my internships, likein law school, I worked for a
very well-known medicalmalpractice attorney.
It's kind of funny Cause mymom's like what the um being a
physician someone who suesdoctors like my God.
What did we do, right?
Um, but so you know.
So that was just a goodopportunity, if you will.
And then out here again.
I wanted to get in thecourtroom.
I didn't want to do criminallaw.

(20:50):
I had a very good internship inthe LADA's office prosecuting
preliminary hearings, and thatwas enough to make me realize I
didn't want to do the criminalstuff.
When I came out here, I wasstill interviewing at the
Riverside DA's office, but theyhad a change of the main DA from
Grover Trask to Rod Pacheco.
I didn't really like Rod Pachecothat much.
No disrespect, I was young, Ididn't know much about him.

(21:12):
What I knew about him wasn'tthe same as the guy who was
leaving, who I did kind of like,and so I tried to turn to the
private sector.
And then I was told like, hey,try to go into something that
you're actually interested ininstead of chasing the courtroom
.
Like almost most arenas of lawwill get to the courtroom.
It's just a matter of whatyou're interested in, and I was
interested in real estate.
I'd seen people kind of buy andsell and invest things like

(21:33):
that.
I've been exposed to it alittle bit, and so I thought
real estate would be cool.
And then the law firm Rover LawFirm.
I don't have a problem sayingthe name.
Shout out Mike and Steven.
I think Steven's in Texas nowbut Mike's still around working
at the burger foundation.
He's on the board over there.
So shout out to Mike,especially giving me my first
shot.
No disrespect, I got a lot oflove from Mike but he's not
practicing law, so I don't haveto worry about it.

(21:54):
Makes it easier to kind ofperson and that's like her
brainchild, or a little babybird, if you will, although it's
kind of like a full-blown birdat this point Not really a baby

(22:16):
anymore, it's a hawk.
Yeah, so they're doing great.
I mean, they're outstandingpeople, wonderful family.
But he gave me my first shotand it worked out well.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
So he did real estate .

Speaker 2 (22:27):
He did real estate and construction.
He's a contractor who had a lawdegree and so he did
construction mostly.
I like the real estate side ofit a little bit more than the
construction, so I kind of wasalways pushing a little bit more
towards like agents, brokers,investors those kinds of things,
and a lot of that has to dowith construction as well.
So they did fit together and sohis firm was mostly like

(22:47):
construction and business.
And then when I eventuallyopened my own law firm 16 plus
years ago, it's kind of fun tosay right, Wow, 16 years.
Yeah, I did real estate business.
And then, as I say, thebusiness of real estate is
construction, so I still doconstruction business.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
And then, as I say, the business of real estate is
construction, so I still doconstruction too.
Wow.
So I have a question Is therelike a couple of real estate
cases that kind of stick out andlike can you share some some?

Speaker 1 (23:14):
experience, some wacky stories.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
I'm sure you got, I mean you know you can't get too
detailed.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
There's gotta be something that kind of.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
I don't know, not necessarily.
Let's say it's's not all, it'sall real estate related.
There was a case I had nothingto do with that I found really
interesting uh, which was uh, arealtor who was taking his lady
back to the open house, like his.
He was the listing agent forthe home sure, and he didn't
know there were cameras insideand he was taking his own
personal lady back to the flophouse or whatever.
But it's not a flop house, it'sa listing.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah, so with cameras , so again that wasn't local.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
I don't want to put anyone last.
I mean, that kind of stuffmight've happened, but this
story I'm telling is not anybodylocal.
Oh my gosh so it's just a storyI heard that was crazy.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
Locally though.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Um, you know, I have.
I have, found's just say,indiscretions outside of the
marriage that have led tocertain maneuvers by people.
I don't know if you're catchingwhat I'm putting down, yeah for
sure.
So it's just, there's a lot ofthings, and most of the ones you
want me to tell you about, Ican't really talk about.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Can't get the good stuff.
You see, I'm like crossing myarms, the body language?

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Why are you shrinking Little, shrinking violet, over
here?

Speaker 3 (24:27):
No, but I mean like so what would somebody call you
for?
Typically for a real estateissue.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
You know it's just problems.
I mean, it's just anything.
If you're trying to buy a pieceof real estate and you feel
like it's not closing on time,you don't have a good
understanding of what thepaperwork says.
I mean your agent should beexplaining that to you.
But if you feel like your agentisn't, the next level is
someone like me.
The difference between anattorney and an agent is an
agent gets paid at the closing.

(24:52):
So a good agent wants you toget the home or property that
you want.
A bad agent wants the deal toclose so that they get their
commission.
The lawyer, as the agents loveto point out, gets paid whether
the deal closes or not.
So I don't have a dog in thatrace.
If this is a good deal for you,I'll tell you.
If it's a bad deal for you,I'll tell you.
Either way, the attorney, so tospeak, gets paid.

(25:12):
So you get kind of an unbiasedviewpoint from the lawyer,
Whereas, again, if you have agood agent because there are a
lot of good agents out thereyou'll also get an unbiased
viewpoint from your agent.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
However, occasionally there are some agents who put
their own self-interest firstand again the bad apple kind of
is the one everybody talks about, right well, and I think too we
we've used you for and likelandlord stuff, sure, and that's
kind of you know, and I'm justlike he's too smart for this
stuff, but I don't want to dealwith with it and we don't want
to deal with this particulartenant, I don't do any eviction

(25:45):
stuff, but I do write up theleases, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
I mean lot line disputes happen all the time,
Like is this block wall in theright place or the wrong place?
Somebody cut down my tree, Likethose kinds of things are kind
of crazy because trees inCalifornia, believe it or not,
are very protected and sothere's just a number of things.
When I bought this house, theytold me everything was great.
Turns out the shower pan leaksthere's mold, got the bid, those

(26:10):
kinds of things.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
That's like when we bought this building.
Do you want to tell me about?

Speaker 1 (26:15):
that?
No, he doesn't.
I think he already knows right.
Let's just put it like this.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
We ran through this place like 10 minutes because
the guy didn't want everybody toknow he was selling.
Ok, we also couldn't smell thestench.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah, they had the doors and the windows open and
we're like, oh, it's fine.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
It's a great summer day.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
And then you come back when you get the keys
You're like, uh-oh, what died inthe walls?
Oh, my.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
God.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
So, oh, my God, so those are yeah, I get those
calls.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
I get those calls for sure.
That was horrible.
You know you also get stuffwhere, like you know people,
they get comfortable with oneanother.
They've done a.
Let's say, they did atransaction and they wrote up a
big, long contract for thetransaction.
Everything went smooth.
They did a second deal.
They use a big contract.
Everything went smooth.
Now it's a third deal, wasgoing to go away unless we like
get this done now, and sothere's no paperwork.

(27:03):
So now, all of a sudden,there's no paperwork and now
something changes.
Someone has a you know,something happens in one
person's life and they want tomove out of town, or they don't
want to do this project anymore,or now they need that money for
something else.
Any number of variables come upand now they go oh wait, we
don't even have a contract aboutthis, and then, that's a common
phone call I get right.
After the deal has already beenmade and after I've already

(27:26):
given someone my money or afterthey've already built the
whatever.
Now they have questions abouthow they're going to get paid,
how they're going to get theirmoney back, et cetera.
Right.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
And then like construction, oh my God.
I mean I'm kind of in thatindustry so I can totally like
see a million different ways ofhow people can get in trouble
there.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Construction.
Of course I I you know builtthis thing in the wrong spot.
I built it the wrong way.
He doesn't want to pay me forit.
It's the wrong color.

Speaker 3 (27:52):
Or the what about the contractor doesn't finish the
job?

Speaker 2 (27:55):
And I gave me a ton of, gave a ton of money.
Contractor is not even licensed.
I gave him a check.
I never heard from him again.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
So what do you say?
Sorry, right, sorry.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Well, I always say sorry.
I mean, that's kind of yourfault, right?

Speaker 3 (28:08):
I mean, there's nothing you can really do?

Speaker 2 (28:09):
or can you?
No, no, I mean there's always.
I mean I don't want to saythere's always something you can
do, but there's alwayssomething you can do.
I mean that is one option, as Imentioned earlier, though I'm
five five, so not really theoption I choose and I'm not
really the option I hope otherpeople choose, because I like my
legs, that's true, I like mylegs, um no, but you know,

(28:30):
obviously there's alwayssomething you can do to the
extent you can.
You know, negotiate with theperson, try to get some of the
money back.
A lot of times the other sidehas a version of events.
It's very rare that one side islike 100% right.
It's far more.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
I mean with you guys, obviously you're always I was
gonna say wait a minute.
That's not what you said.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
I could see the vision was turning to stone?

Speaker 2 (28:50):
No, but you know so a lot of times.
At least the other side canpretend they have their own
point of view, sometimes, rightnegotiable.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
Sometimes it's not.
That's what the court system isfor, all right he's, he's
talked us off the ledge a coupletimes.
You off the ledge.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
Oh god, you're the one that needs to talk a good
lawyer will tell you that thecourt system is expensive and
slow.
It's a nuclear option.
It should be a last resort, nota first idea absolutely,
absolutely, yeah and you gotthat spice.
Yeah, I'm gonna wring his neck,we're gonna sue him, I him.
I'm like, well, between thosechoices, let's sue him.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, that's the better of the two.
So you've been doing this 16years, one thing that you've
kind of gotten in.
I don't know how long you'vebeen doing this, but you've been
now teaching law at the localuniversity.
Tell us a little bit about thatand how that came about.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
So I've been practicing 20 years, believe it
or not right, Check the grayhairs.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Don't look that old.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
It'll be 20 years oh come on, yeah, I do, I
appreciate that.
Yeah, I do.
Yeah, so 20 years practicinglaw, believe it or not, and then
16 is how long I've been on myown, my own AFSAR log at my own
law office, and then C, theteaching gig.
The teaching gig the localschool had a, a gentleman who
taught a um like law andbusiness kind of like, for this

(30:06):
is an undergrad class, by theway is this the one down in
india?
no, no, this is that.
This is an undergrad at calstate san bernardino oh, okay,
okay, got it street.
So, um, I started teaching likea management class which was in
my mind.
It was like the intersection ofthe real basic intersection of
law and business, rightUnderstanding what you need to
form a contract, why it shouldbe in writing or shouldn't be in

(30:27):
writing, just kind of the realbasics of you know, business and
law.
Do you want to form acorporation?
What's the difference between acorporation and LLC?
Like those kinds of thingsright.
Again, just real undergradclass, so very kind of surface
level right.
The students will tell you itwas in depth and very hard, but
from a legal standpoint it wassurface level, right Like law

(30:47):
school obviously totallydifferent.
I did that for about four years.
Then COVID came.
I did not want to teach onlineat all.
Not only did I teach a classonline, but I taught a class to
all English as my secondlanguage students from, I
believe, china, and I believethey were like living in China,
like it was foreign exchangestudents who didn't come because

(31:08):
of COVID, and that wasimpossibly difficult.
I referred at one point toDonald Trump, as like this is,
you know, not not presidentialDonald Trump like a business
owner, and I said somethingabout him firing an employee and
, without me even realizing it,half the students took that
phrase to mean pulling out a gunand shooting the employee.

(31:30):
Oh, wow.
And it's just, it's not cause,it's just a breakdown in the
language mixed with this.
You know, it's just a breakdownin the language mixed with this
.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
You know the idea of what they think America is just
guns, and cowboys.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
So for that reason that was so I didn't.
After that I was like, okay, no, mas, that's enough for me.
I stopped teaching for a fewyears.
This year, the same gentlemannamed Mike Stoll, who was the
head of the managementdepartment, is now the head of
the entrepreneurship program andhe asked me to come back and
teach a like um sort of like asmall business how to start.
It's like an entrepreneur'sversion as opposed, so it's not

(32:03):
a lot of law really in thisclass but it's mostly like how
to start and build or what, whatyou should be aware of when you
start and build a smallbusiness.
That's awesome, man.
Yeah, it's great.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
It's only like 12 students, maybe eight, show up.
Come on, step up.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
But yeah, you're paying for it.
You might as well show up,that's right, they're paying for
it, right, but yeah, so it'sall about kind of building a how
to build or whether you shouldor shouldn't build.
I think a lot of people youknow, going back to the kind of
the Gary V thing earlier,there's a lot of hype about
starting your own business andbuilding your own business.
A lot of businesses fail.
It's not for everybody.
So I think part of like thisclass is kind of giving people a
idea of what it takes toactually start and build a

(32:40):
business.
Like if you're wonderful atbaking pies this is actually the
example in the textbook Ifyou're wonderful at baking pies,
all your friends tell you, oh,you should bake pies.
Then there's like a potluck atwork so you bake a pie for it.
Everyone there's like, oh, whomade this pie?
I would pay 10 bucks for a sliceof this pie.
I would pay 10 bucks for aslice of this pie.
That just means you're good atbaking pies.
That doesn't mean you are goodat the business of owning a

(33:01):
bakery that sells pies.
You don't know necessarilywhere to put that place, where
the location should be.
You don't know how to market it, what colors it should be, how
much a pie should cost, how manyyou should make, where to buy
ingredients to build in bulk.
I mean, there's a lot of thingsto being a business.
What about employees settingschedules?
Right Insurance Do you evenneed insurance?

Speaker 3 (33:18):
for a pie shop Payroll.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Payroll?
Oh yeah, of course, payroll.
Where am I thinking, sittinghere?
There's all these things thatgo into it.
But, like, the vast majority ofpeople are like, oh, everybody
says I'm good at making pies,just make pies, I.
That's kind of the idea, right,is?
It's not just?
And that's the idea of theclass, right?
It's just because you're reallygood at doing makeup doesn't
mean you should be like in themakeup artist business.

(33:41):
It might be more to it thanjust this practice of doing the
makeup.
Right, same with, like, youknow, the legal profession.
There's a lot of great lawyerswho don't have their own law
firms.
They're really good at beingthe lawyer.
They don't want to manage theemployees.
They don't want to decide ifwe're taking Monday off or

(34:01):
Wednesday off for AbrahamLincoln's birthday, right,
things like that, right.
And so they don't want to dealwith it and hey, more power to
them.
I get that.
There's a lot of lawyers whojust want to do the law job and
go home.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
It's definitely a skillset to be running a
business.
Yeah, I don't care what whatbusiness it is.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
There's a difference.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
There's a big time difference.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
There's a big difference between the
salesperson at Tile Designs,right, and what if it's an
employee who's just a salesman?
And what you're doing every day.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
Oh, banging my head against the wall.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
So then did the educational part of you going
and teaching classes is that Iknow you do like public speaking
.
How did that come about, andare you getting paid for it now?

Speaker 2 (34:38):
This is.
I mean it's for fun.
It's like the legal job is likevicious and mean.
There's a lot of arguing andfighting and I'm not all vicious
, all mean all the time, believeit or not.
And so these are in my mind.
These are me finding creativeoutlets for the majority of my
personality, which is not alitigator right, the litigate I

(34:58):
am.
The job is one piece of who Iam.
For most people it's like themajor piece of who they are.
I think maybe I'm happy as anattorney because it's not the
major piece of who I am.
Like it is how I make my money.
It's what I do for a living.
I'm happy to offer advice andhelp people out when I can and
do things like this.
But no, I mean the speakingstuff is just basically for fun.

(35:20):
I referenced the One FutureCoachella Valley gig.
There was no payment oranything for that.
I didn't even ask.

Speaker 3 (35:25):
But what are you speaking about?

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Usually it's.
What am I speaking about rightnow?
My experience, how I got towhere I am.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
So I'm not going to get billed for this.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
Oh no, you're getting billed, so I'm not going to get
billed for this.
Oh no, you're getting billed.
Ah shit, no, you're not gettingbilled for this.
You're not getting billed forthis right.
But if all of a sudden youstart firing off questions about
your business and how?

Speaker 1 (35:43):
do I get paid on this project and all of a sudden the
cameras turn off and you'retaking notes and stuff, like,
yeah, it's going to be a littlebit different, right?

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah, sure, I mean, I do talk, I do some of the
events for the I'm going toforget this the Women's
Entrepreneur Program, the iHub Iknow I'm messing it up, oh yeah
, and they offer me a stipend orwhatever.
I just donate it back.
Nice, right, it's just I don'tknow, I don't really do it for
money.
Now, if there was a bigger gigthere have been some kind of

(36:13):
bigger events that have cometalking yeah, then I, like you
know, of course I put a littleprice tag on it, but no one's
really paid me any big money todo it.
Or when they have, I've just,I've just decided to donate it
back.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
So far Just feed me lunch.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
What about the auctioneering?
I hear that might be the nextcareer path for you.
What the hell.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
All right.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
You.
I do get paid for the professorgig, but I make less money.
One new client retainer justthe initial retainer deposit is
larger than what I make for awhole semester of teaching that
one class.
So that is not you know that'snot, it's just I'm giving, it's
not.
You know what I feel like onone part.
I'm like giving back?
No, and it's giving back forsure, but on another way they
give back to me, like it kind ofdoes keep me young and stuff

(36:53):
Keeps like when my kids talkabout like you know the.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
Riz or whatever Like they know daddy's the Rizzler,
they know what's up.
Right, like that's just the wayit is right, bro.
What's up bro?
No, no, bro's our word.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Like I never called anything bad Ohio.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Like my kids straight up use Ohio to mean like that's
bad.
What does Mason say?
Mason said I got way too many.
I can't keep up.
I can't, I don't know who cares, but all I know is that's cap
probably oh yeah, yeah, yeah,cap, no, cap, yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
And the funny thing is, cap is a three-letter word
for a three-letter word, yeah,which is a lie yeah, it's not
like it's shortened, yeah and Idon't.
And it's not like when you saidlike no lie, no lie didn't
sound like bad, like you justsaid no lie.
Now it's like no cap, anyways,whatever, anyways, whatever.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
See the gray hairs there's another one poking out.
We're the same generation.
Our generation's always betterthan the others.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
That's right, we can be the old man on the lawn now
and tell these kids they don'tknow, yeah, it keeps me young
for the auctions.
Right, that's right.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
That's where you're going next.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
What are?

Speaker 3 (37:48):
you auctioning?

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Okay, the schools, and I'm the auctioneer because
that lovely lady I chased.
So the elementary school.
She's part of that, theelementary school had a guy that
was an actual auctioneer for aliving and his I think it was
his grandson was a student atthe elementary school and he was
awesome.
He was an actual auctioneer,like 100% for a living
auctioneer.
And then his family moved, Ithink, to Arizona, but they
moved out of state, out of thearea.
And then his family moved, Ithink, to Arizona, but they
moved out of state, out of thearea.

(38:18):
And then the next year they hadlike someone from I don't
remember exactly where be theauctioneer, but it just wasn't
the same vibe.
It wasn't someone who wasupbeat, it was just kind of like
a hey, come on, we're raisingmoney for kids.
But it had like a little bit ofa stiff delivery.

(38:38):
She kind of said, oh, myhusband could do that, and then
no one told me about it until itwas so close to the event that
I wouldn't feel like I couldback out without being a
complete jerk, oh wow.
And so next thing I know I meanlike this, right, if you're
watching this to try to get someknowledge, right I went to
YouTube like how to be anauctioneer kind of thing.
I started to YouTube like howto be an auctioneer kind of
thing.
I started auctioning off eggsto my kids in the morning.
I would tell them just say youwant more.
I know you don't want nine eggs, but I need you to keep it

(39:00):
going.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
I got one egg.
I need two eggs, and that kindof thing, and so I started doing
that and then started forWashington Charter, the local
elementary school.
My kids were students there,and so then it next year um, by
the way went really well.
The washington charter mom gang, the mom squad that puts this
event on, they have it dialed in.
It's important to point outlike I just get to show up and

(39:24):
do the fun stuff the microphonemc.
Like.
The event is beautiful, thelocations are always nice, the
themes are great, like shout outthe washington charter, moms,
like they, they have it dialedin and then I get to run and do
a, put on a show and a greatevent, and then people bid more
because they're feeling good,right.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
So and it kind of all reflects positively.
That's the best, that's whatyou need to do.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
They give them alcohol.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
I do not give them alcohol, that's how you raise
money right there.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah, there is a but.
So yeah, that went well.
Next thing I know I was doingthe middle school, Then I was
doing I think I'd done the highschool a couple of years and
then I did a district auctionand then I think someone was
like, hey, are there any, evenelementary, middle, high school,
the district?
I'm like, eh yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
So it's maybe a second career.
Huh, I did dial that back alittle bit.
No second career.
No second career.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
And it's fun to raise money for the schools.
It's fun to do it for the kids.
It's easy to guilt people likewe're doing it for the kids, you
know.
And then you know also becauseI want to plug some of the more
important parts than just mestanding there getting bids.
There's a lot of people in thecommunity that go out of their
way to get auction items andthat's also a big, huge piece of
it.
And, like again, I get get tostand up there.
Sometimes I get to stand upthere with autographed shoes

(40:35):
from carlos alcaraz, like thenumber one tennis player now
three, I think, in the worldthat he wore at the bnp just two
days before, like with a photoof him autographing them like oh
my god.
And it's like I mean, this istwo days.
They're like the shoes stillsmell bad, like they're right
off the court, right, and that'sbecause there are people who
are going out and making thathappen, right.
There's also like trips.

(40:57):
There's incredible trips tolike.
New York to see like a Broadwayshow or like even braces for
your kid's teeth Right, andthese things are donated by,
like, local businesses and othersupporters and again, I get a
lot of credit because I get tostand there and auction them off
.
But if it wasn't for thosepeople going and collecting
these great items, then therewouldn't be anything for me to
have people bid on.
So I think it's important thatI'm just the singer without this

(41:18):
band back here.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
I need this band back here.
You're just the diva on the mic.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Kendrick Lamar at the Super Bowl.
He's just a rapper that,generally speaking, stands in
one spot.
If it's not for all those otherpeople on the red, white and
blue, I don't know how excitingthat performance is yeah, but
those bell bottoms were prettyfucking dope look on him, I get
it on him.
I don't see it on, like anybodywho's normal.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
I'm sorry unless he's gonna start singing some Bobby
Valentino style.
We ain't going back there.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
I think there's some things that are good on celebs
that the rest of us will looksilly in, and I think that's
that category.
How about the Grand Nationalthough?
That car, let's get Okay.
How about the Grand Nationalthough?
What the hell.
That car, that car.
Oh, let's get that car.
You keep the jeans, I'll takethe car.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
I still kind of want a Mustang or an old Camaro Okay,
or a fastback.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Nothing wrong with either of those.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
Yeah, okay, speaking of cars.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
Uh-oh chasing the girl.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
Yeah, you know what's funny?
I don't know.
I'm sure I don't.
I really don't have the answerto that question.
Um, when I was a little kid Iwas like hot wheels in both
hands and like white knuckle,like gripping tightly, hot
wheels.
Uh, I had a lot of hot wheels.
I had like the little car washthing, a little place to race
them.
I was always really into hotwheels.
Yeah, I never got into likenCAR or car racing F1.
I've never really been any ofthat stuff.
I just always liked street cars.

(42:39):
Grew up in LA by the beach.
You go down there like on theweekends and you'd see like all
kinds of you know what I like tocall like a modern, like a
current car that's lowered or onrims, and then right next to it
you might see like somethingolder, like one of the Mustangs
you're talking about or likeImpalas, anything like that.
So LA car culture is kind ofpart of everything, right, and
so I don't have the answer.

(43:01):
I kind of think I've alwaysbeen into the cars.
It's in your blood, I don'tknow.
It's in my blood.
My parents were into cars so Ithink maybe that's part of it.
I mean, my parents kind ofdrove once.
They got it rolling, if youwill.

Speaker 3 (43:13):
I just think short people like to go fast, so I
just give me that wheel.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
I drive the speed limit.
I just like to go fast fromzero to the speed limit you
should see Bobby now in hisTesla.
Jesus Christ, those Teslas arecrazy, though it's all torque,
all the time, like an airplaneyou have like the platter with
the craziest, fast ones.
That's the.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Y.
It's just a performance, but itgets the job done, man.
Oh no, those are fast Dude.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
I literally feel sick , like I'm going to throw up.
Yeah you got to get used to it.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
And then I'm like constantly I into the whole
Tesla thing and yeah, so yeah,he's always showing off all the
cool things.
My mom has a S, the big sedan,yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
And she likes it a lot.
But I think she likes it mostlybecause she doesn't have to go
to the gas station.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
Oh, that's what.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
I Absolutely.
You have a charger at home.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, I think that's the key.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
That's the key freaking out like oh, you know,
like you gotta check though, yougotta check your levels, you
gotta check your.
You can do so much of it fromyour phone, though now, like I
mean, that's also one of thethings I like about it, you know
, you can just you're you canstay on top of it.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
Okay, here's a fun fact about teslas, and I don't
know, maybe you know, maybe thisis stupid.
Did you know the red ones costless money I did not know that.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
I know my mom's is red, but I didn't know.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
It cost less money they're less money than all the
others.
What?

Speaker 2 (44:35):
I like about them is that you can change the sound
effect when you like, lock thedoors and so, like my buddies,
makes the like whoop, whoop from.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Like the 90s, that's so cool every time he does it.
I like laugh, I like get a kickout of it and you can change
the horn, you can change theI've seen some of the videos.
Yeah, those things are lookingridiculous.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
I'd like to know why they're banned.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
You know why they're banned?
Because they'll destroy the EVmarket here if they were
released.
Because they're like $10,000and they're better.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah, I mean I get that, but generally speaking,
the United States is all aboutcompetition, so at some point,
if we let them in here, I got afeeling that things will
instantly.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
You would think.
You would think I don't know, Idon't know.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
It's a bad sign whenever we keep competition out
.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
I think that's a bad sign.
What happened to free trade man?
What happened?

Speaker 2 (45:27):
to free trade.
Oh, free trade.
Now we're going a wholedifferent route.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
The politics we won't want that many views.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
We don't want that many views.
We don't want that manycomments.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
No we don't want the bots coming after us.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
We don't want that many comments, right.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
So we always like to kind of get your advice to kids
that maybe are in high school orcollege and they're thinking
about hey, maybe law I'm good at, I think I want to go into law.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
I want to go to law school.
That's not it.
That's not a prerequisite it'sreading no, no, it's not it.
It's not it.
It's just because arguing is atiny, tiny part of our job.
It's a big piece of what we doin law TV shows Right, but if
you notice there's no lawreality show, it's because the
reality of the law game is notwhat the like TV show of the law
game is.
Right, like those of you wholove suits, the entire premise

(46:24):
of the show is like illegal,right?
There's a guy who doesn't havea law degree but he has a great
memory and he's practicing lawillegal in so many ways.
Never doesn't mean it's not agood show, Not trying to knock
the show, Just saying it's justnot realistic to the real world
or whatever right.
So I mean, I don't know, let'ssee Well we can take it another

(46:45):
way.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
What are the pros and cons, if there is?

Speaker 2 (46:48):
Well, no, so let me go back.
So let me at least double up.
If I'm going to say that youshouldn't be argumentative, then
what should you be good at?
Problem solving?
Right, empathy, especially ifyou have like.
If you have two friends thatare like in an argument about
something, can you step in themiddle and help them put that
problem to bed?
Right, I had a nice sweatshirtand my buddy spilled his beer on

(47:10):
it and ruined the sweatshirt.
You know he doesn't care.
He didn't say he was sorrywhatever.
And and cared and say you'resorry whatever.
And now I'm mad about it.
Go to the friend hey, youdidn't even say you're sorry, it
was a party.
Relax, who needs to apologize?
Let it go.
And now these guys aren'ttalking or something.
Can you insert yourself in themiddle without making either of
them hate you necessarily?
and get them to put their beefto rest.
And obviously I use like asilly example of that.

(47:31):
But like, imagine one friendloaned another friend like
$1,000.
Oh yeah, and then the secondfriend hasn't paid it back but
went out and bought some LouisVuitton sneakers or something,
right.
So now that friend who's likewhere's my $1,000?
They're in your sneakers, orwhatever.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
So that kind of thing .
Can you insert yourself inthere and diffuse that and help
them put that problem to bed?
Now, that doesn't mean you'regoing to be an excellent lawyer,
but I think that's a bettersign of a high quality attorney
than I like to argue all thetime.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
Okay, so I don't.
So it's funny that you saidthat, because when I think of a
lawyer I don't necessarily thinkof empathy.
You know what I mean.
So that's kind of interestingto hear.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
But like, from that viewpoint?
Yeah, I guess.
So you don't think of itbecause you've been trained and
most lawyers like to use theidea that fear to sell legal
services Like I'll fight for you, or what are you going to do
when the government comes foryou and you're not ready?
What are you going to do whensuch and such happens and you're
not ready, like when you coulddie at any moment and your kids
are going to pay all those taxesand you need to get a will, you
need to get a trust done, likeall those kinds of things.

(48:32):
Right, the number one way tosell legal services is to scare
you into thinking you need them.
Fear like anything else, and sothat's why you automatically
think of lawyer as someone who'slike fighting on your behalf or
aggressive or like bulldogphrasing Right, but I think
again, that's just.
That's just stereotypes.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
Or it could be that we just finished watching the OJ
thing.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Right.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
That's a different ballgame.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
Those guys work.
Criminal law is completelydifferent Wow.
Criminal law is very different,that's a difference, Especially
a high profile case like that.
You got the best in the worldgoing at it, right.
Well, I mean.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
I'll tell you right now that part doesn't matter.
I don't know if the guys orgals I'm going against are the
best or worst in the world.
I know that I'm always tryingto put my best foot forward,
right for OJ Simpson, I mean.
They know it's on TV and stuff,so of course they're trying
their extra hardest.
But I imagine there's no suchthing as extra hardest.
Like these guys don't haveother cases that they're okay
with losing.
Like there's not a case in myfile, even the ones that are

(49:24):
worth less money.
Let's say, so to speak, thatI'm like okay with rolling over
and losing on.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
Right.
So a lawyer has to becompetitive.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
It's not about being competitive.
If I know I have a losing,think about poker.
Right, if I have a crappy, if Ihave a losing hand, the longer
I stay in I'm not doing anythingsmart.
That's dumb.
So it's about being able toassess what your position is
relative to someone else'sposition.
You know there's a.
You know you want me to soundreally smart, we'll use the
phrase BATNA.
You have to always rememberwhat your BATNA alternative to a

(49:53):
negotiated agreement, right.
So if I can negotiate with youand reach an agreement, okay,
that's right on the surface.
If I can't, what are my options?
If those options are good,right.
Like this gas price is tooexpensive, right.
Can I negotiate with a, youknow, unical 76 station?

(50:13):
I cannot.
So what's my best alternative?
I can go to the gas stationdown the street.
I can go to the Arco or thewhatever.
That's a little less expensive.
Now if I have no gas like none,none, and I can't make it to
the next gas station, my bestalternative is to run out of gas
halfway to the next gas stationand then push.
Then I might as well pay thisgas.
You see what I mean.
So it's all about knowing yourposition and where you are
relative to your alternatives.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
Absolutely Okay.
So how do you do that?
When you have an argument withyour wife, Are you using the
BATNA approach?

Speaker 2 (50:40):
I mean it could work right when you argue with your
wife, when you, Wow, that wasfunny.
I need to know if she'swatching this or not.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
To answer the question Nobody's going to watch
this.
Nobody's going to watch this.
Look, no trade secrets here.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
When you're arguing with an idiot, right?
No, I'm just kidding.
Look, when you're arguing withyour wife, you're not getting
paid, right, so you justsurrender.
I try to tell everybody youknow.
What happens is you live withthe person and you start to mix
up opinion, like I have anopinion, sure, as opposed to, I
actually care about this andI've learned at a very early,

(51:21):
probably in the wedding planningstage, that there's a lot of
things I have an opinion on,like what colors and where and
what time.
But there's only a couple ofthings I care about, like what
flavors the cake, right?
So for me, did I go to the caketasting?
You bet I did.
I spoke up.
I don't want any fruit in mycake.
I had a white cake withchocolate ribbon.
I wanted my cake to taste good.
I didn't care that it wasn'ttraditional wedding cake.

(51:42):
I'm not a traditional guy, soto speak.
It's fine, right, but I don'tremember exactly what color my
tie was.
It was like a soft peach.
I'm sure I'm getting this wrong, wrong.
Yeah, it was like a very, verylight pink with a little bit of
gold coloring to it.
I don't know, I don't, I didn'tpick it, I didn't care.
So that's.
I try to use that in all myarguments, and so if it's

(52:03):
something I care about, I arguefor it, and if there's something
I don't care about, I just tryto go.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Let it go path of least resistance.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
Yeah well, that's almost about our time, man
there's no such thing as aboutour time here.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
What about those after the show clips?

Speaker 1 (52:19):
Yeah, right, but we want our audience to be able to
kind of reach out to you ifthey've got questions for you
and, you know, kind of be ableto maybe if they need some law
services.
Where would they do that?
Where would they find you?

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Let's see.
You can find me on all thesocial medias, of course, like
Instagram, that's probably themost popular one.
To find me on Afsar Law Group,you can just hit me up at Afsar
Law Group.
Afsarlawcom is the website.
There you can find the phonenumber and the email address and
all that stuff.
And if you mentioned you saw meon this episode I will double

(52:57):
the fees.
No, I'll bill you and then I'llwaive the fee.
And then I'll waive it, and thenI'll waive it, okay, and this
is the tip you take from that toall the viewers, right?
Write it off, listen, listen toall the viewers, not just write
it off.
Hold on, don't bill people.
And then they're like see, Ihooked them up, I gave it to
them for free.
Don't do that.
Instead, put a bill togetherand cross out the number at the

(53:20):
bottom and put zero, so theperson sees the value that
they're getting for free.
Smart, so if I just tell youyou're going to call me and it's
going to be no charge, you justassume that I've said I'm going
to do it for free.
You're just going to come in.
Oh, this is free.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
No.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
I'm going to bill it to Fina and she's going to take
care of it for you.
That's the kind of person sheis, but guess what?
That number is going to be zero.
That she's taking care of foryou.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
I have empathy, okay.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
so one last thing, and I'm like thank God because
this is stuff that I don't thinkabout is to keep my corporate
binder up to date.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
She's all about that corporate binder man that's
always stuck with me, all aboutit.
We're going to buy a car, allabout it.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
All about it, man.
Listen, if you take the time toform a corporation to protect
your personal assets from yourbusiness assets which is a smart
thing to do Damn.
To protect your personal assetsfrom your business assets which
is a smart thing to do Damnright.
And then you fail to treat itwith the proper formalities, you
don't treat it like a separateentity.
You mix your money and itsmoney.
You mix your problems and itsproblems.
You mix your bills and itsbills.

(54:28):
You mix your money and itsmoney.
Then you lose those protections.
But by doing what you justtalked about, doing the annual
update, which you're doing, atax return for it anyway.
So just again, same kind ofthing.
You're basically reinforcingthe wall that separates your
personal assets from yourbusiness assets, which is
hopefully never going to betested, but should it ever be
tested, you want it to be asstrong as possible.

Speaker 3 (54:48):
Well, I remember you saying like that's the first
thing they're going to ask youfor it is.
So that's always stuck with meand I just want to thank you for
that.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
It absolutely is, and if you don't know what we're
talking about, feel free to callme and ask me.
I'm happy to explain it further.
No real talk.
I know that a lot of the pointof your podcast is to kind of
get the word out to people whomaybe aren't exposed to this
type of information all the time.
Most people are veryintimidated by lawyers.
I try not to be that way, right, and so if you have questions,

(55:17):
if you're friends with these two, if you're just watching right
now, reach out Totallyaccessible.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
See, that's why we had him on Titan of industry.
Like I said, this guy's thebest.
He's kept us out of a multitudeof lawsuits, so Jesus, I don't
know if I've done that much.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Looking at you, Fina.
Looking at you.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
So if you found some value today, you guys know the
routine Like, subscribe andshare and we'll see you guys
next time.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
Thank you.