May 17, 2025 • 60 mins
Join Tom Butler on this week's Cycling Over Sixty episode as he contemplates a frugal move that might not be the most enjoyable. He also gives listeners a taste of a significant personal cycling challenge he's preparing for. The episode takes a heartwarming turn when Tom's wife, Kelly, joins him to explore the nuances of being a cycling family. They openly discuss their individual approaches to riding and the real-life considerations of crafting a summer full of active recreation that works for both of them.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tom Butler (00:04):
This is the Cycling Over 60 podcast, season three,
episode 29,.
A new cycling season for Kelly,and I'm your host, tom Butler.
I'm one of those people thatcan go full tilt into something,
(00:26):
only to find out I've missedsomething important after it's
too late.
A rather significant part offeeding my cycling is making
sure that I get enoughelectrolytes.
I still don't know exactly howmuch I should be consuming, but
I think I have found a strategythat helps me avoid cramps, so I
see that as a good sign thatI'm doing something right with
electrolyte consumption.
(00:47):
Until recently, I've been usinga pre-formulated electrolyte
powder that I mix into mybottles for when I'm riding.
I up the amount I take so thatI put two packets of the powder
in 24 ounces of water.
That 24 ounces goes about 10miles, so on a 30-mile ride I
have been consuming six packetsof electrolyte powder.
I'm not recommending this foranyone else, and I do have a
(01:09):
hope that I'll eventually beable to find a way to really
dial in how much I should beconsuming for my personal
physiology.
Until I find a way to dial itin more specifically for me,
until I can dial it in morespecifically for what I need,
I'm going to be consuming 500milligrams of potassium, 110
grams of sodium and 200milligrams of magnesium every 10
(01:32):
miles.
There are other minerals in thepackets that I take, but these
are the three that I'm mostinterested in.
I decided to see if I could finda more economical source for
electrolytes.
I'm estimating that I currentlyspend about 20 cents a mile for
electrolytes, so for the 206mile STP I would spend $41.20.
I wanted to see if I could makethat cheaper.
(01:52):
I also wanted to see if I couldfind a more bioavailable form
of electrolytes.
I found a source for bulkelectrolytes appropriately
called bulksupplementscom.
After some reading, I chosemagnesium glycinate and
potassium gluconate as a sourcefor these two electrolytes and I
decided to use Himalayan saltfor sodium.
(02:13):
I purchased 2.2 pounds of boththe magnesium glycinate and the
potassium gluconate.
I also purchased some limepowder to provide some flavor.
Doing the math, my homemadeelectrolyte blend comes out to
about five cents per mile.
So over the 206 mile STP I'mlooking at spending $10.30 for
electrolytes by making thischange.
To be honest, I'm not thatexcited about saving $30 for
(02:36):
electrolytes on a two-day groupride, but if I extend that out
to a year that's a little better.
I'm planning on hitting about3,700 miles this year.
So at 20 cents a mile that's$740.
At 5 cents a mile I would putout $180 a year for electrolytes
.
That makes it seem a littlemore worth it to do it on my own
.
(02:56):
There, of course, is some effortto using the powders over
pre-packaged options.
I picked up some small Ziplocbags very cheaply, so I'll take
a few hours here and there tofill a bunch of these bags so
it's easy for me to take on aride.
Here's where it getsproblematic.
The potassium gluconate tasteshorrible Because I got a 2.2
pound bag of it, against Kelly'sadvice.
(03:18):
By the way, I have 333 waterbottles, or 3,330 miles of
really bad tasting potassiumgluconate to get through.
I'm holding out hope that I canfind some form of flavor that
can mask the taste of thepotassium, but in reality I
think it's going to be mileafter mile of putting up with it
.
I really don't have a choice.
Having said, oh, it will befine when Kelly suggested
(03:42):
starting out with a small bagtill I knew it was going to work
out.
Now maybe it's an acquiredtaste and after 500 miles or so
I will look forward to it.
But I'm not betting on that,and there's another significant
problem it takes a lot of effortto get it to mix evenly in the
water.
I will be shaking and shakingand shaking the water bottles to
get it to not just be a clumpin the bottom, and that's truly
(04:05):
a pain in the neck Because Idove right in with these options
.
It means that I'm going to havea good long time to see how it
works out.
I've certainly been enjoying theweekly rides with the Tacoma
Washington Bicycle Club thatI've started to do, and I had a
wonderful experience one week.
I met a cyclist named Steve onthe trail recently.
We got talking about localroutes and I made the comment
(04:27):
that I'm a slow climber.
Steve looked at me and said Ican see that isn't true.
So Steve doesn't know that mylegs look stronger than they
perform, but that is okay,because I am thrilled that I
look strong.
To someone Two years ago, noone would have questioned me
commenting that I'm a slowclimber.
In that little time I've beenable to reshape my body, so at
least it looks strong andobviously I am a much better
(04:50):
climber than I was two years ago.
My transformation should givehope to anyone who wants to get
stronger later in life.
Speaking of climbing, I mightbe making a mistake.
This weekend I tucked myselfinto riding the second
cycle-coordinated event, calledDestiny Dozen.
It's a ride up the 12 toughesthills in Tacoma.
The ride is 30 miles with 4,500feet of elevation.
(05:11):
There's an interesting aspectto this ride.
I think it is fashioned afterthe Dirty Dozen ride in
Pittsburgh.
Everyone meets at the bottom ofa hill, then the organizers
give a signal and you race tothe top.
There are two groups One ridesfast between climbs and the
other rides slow between climbs.
I will be in the slow group andnot looking to see how fast I
(05:32):
can climb.
My goal will be just to make itto the top of all 12 climbs.
If I make it, it will be thesecond most I have climbed in a
day, so wish me luck.
At the beginning of this seasonof the podcast, I talked with my
(05:54):
family and asked the questionare we a cycling family?
We decided the answer was yes,but now we're at the point where
we start defining what thatmeans in practice.
The most important person in mylife when it comes to me making
healthy decisions is my wife,kelly.
Family has an incredible impacton the choices we make.
I thought it was time to checkin with Kelly and hear about her
(06:14):
cycling journey, which is verydifferent from mine, and talk
with her about her currentthoughts about what it means to
be a cycling family.
Here is Kelly.
I am here with my favoriteguest.
Thank you, kelly Butler, forjoining me on the podcast again.
Kelly Butler (06:29):
Good to be here.
Tom Butler (06:30):
Now you are a bit of an experiment.
Do you know that?
Kelly Butler (06:36):
Sure.
Tom Butler (06:37):
Do you?
Kelly Butler (06:39):
I'm always an experiment.
But what do you mean by that?
But what do you mean by that?
Tom Butler (06:43):
Well, you are not really a cyclist, right, so kind
of our journey together rightnow.
I consider myself a cyclist,but you are kind of pulled in
and we've talked in the pastabout us being a cycling family,
so it's kind of an experimentabout how you can be part of a
(07:04):
cycling family when you'rereally not that much of a
cyclist.
Are you okay with thatexperiment?
Yes, okay, good.
Are there any things about thatexperiment that you're
particularly happy about?
Kelly Butler (07:16):
Well, anything that increases family time,
outdoor time and movement timeI'm in favor of, so I like all
of that.
Tom Butler (07:23):
And I think there's a big thing for us at our age
which, in about a month and ahalf, something like that,
you're going to be cycling over60.
Yep, so I think there'ssomething that we've really
latched onto that at our age weneed to take activity seriously.
Kelly Butler (07:43):
Well, for sure I wouldn't say it's any less
serious below that age, butcertainly continues through that
age and beyond.
Tom Butler (07:52):
I would argue that you can get away with being
inactive easier when you'reyounger than when you're older,
just from a perspective ofmetabolism slowing down.
Kelly Butler (08:04):
Well, it depends on what you're getting away with
.
You're still having breakdownand degeneration of systems.
It's just not as visible.
So you might be getting awaywith it, but you're really not.
You're just not aware of it, inmy opinion.
Tom Butler (08:19):
I think it's a really valid observation.
But I would say that you canrecover when you're younger and
you have breakdown of a system,then you can recover better than
when you're older.
And I think that, again, justfrom the perspective of
metabolism, if you go a whilewithout any physical activity,
(08:42):
if you pick it up again, you'regoing to recover from it.
But I would say at our age wehave to be consistent with it.
Kelly Butler (08:50):
Ideally, for sure, yeah.
Tom Butler (08:52):
So then, you know we've embraced activity and
active recreation, activevacations and all kinds of
things in that realm.
Yes, we recently did somethingthat we have never done, and
that was that we went out on acamping trip specifically to
(09:14):
ride a trail.
So we took the bikes and wecamped.
You know, it was in a yurt, soit was different than, for sure,
bikepacking would be, but wespecifically went out to go have
a cycling adventure, and Idon't know that that's something
that we've done as a familybefore.
Kelly Butler (09:35):
No, I don't think so.
Tom Butler (09:37):
How did you find that trip?
Did you enjoy that?
Kelly Butler (09:40):
Very much.
Yeah, I loved it.
I loved where we camped.
I loved seeing new places.
Being outside, the ease of theyear was nice.
Just pull up and have a tentthere and then to have a trail
close by was just ideal.
I thought it was a perfectweekend.
Tom Butler (09:57):
And I think that's a model of weekends that I would
like to see come, and I think ifwe do that, then you know we're
going to have cyclingintegrated into our vacations in
a really healthy way.
That was the first time you'vebeen out on your bike this year,
so that's a very differentexperience than what I'm having,
(10:23):
very different experience thanwhat I'm having, and I'm
wondering if that's okay withyou, if it's okay with you that
you're not cycling as much asI'm cycling.
Kelly Butler (10:32):
For sure, you cycle a lot.
Tom Butler (10:39):
I wish people could see your face.
Kelly Butler (10:40):
You spend so much time on the bike.
I don't have that much time.
I have to be more focused on myfitness goals.
I don't have that much time toreach my fitness goals, and so
I'm totally okay not spendingthat much time on the bike.
Tom Butler (10:54):
And that's going to be something that we just have
to manage moving forward.
When we talk about being acycling family, there's a
mismatch there.
That's okay that you aren'tgoing to be out and doing
everything that I'm doing on thebicycle.
You're not going to be takingas many trips and that's going
(11:17):
to show up in your fitness levelon the bike.
You're not pushing yourself tobe a stronger cyclist all the
time.
Kelly Butler (11:26):
No, I'm not.
I have an e-bike specificallybecause I can have fun with you,
regardless how fit I am on thebike per se.
But I am working on fitnessgoals in other ways.
I'd like to be able to takegood long hikes.
I'm working on my knees so thatI can go up and down hills
again.
I'm working on my knees so thatI can go up and down hills
again.
(11:46):
Those are my current goals.
I have to back off on quite abit right now because my knees
are acting up and I really wantto strengthen them and guard
them and build them up so that Ican do things, including riding
bikes, longer.
But riding a bike doesn'treally bother them, but I want
to be able to hike.
I'd like to go camping and goon hike as well as take a bike
(12:11):
ride.
So I want pretty broad fitnessabilities.
Tom Butler (12:15):
Yeah, I think that you want to be able to function
physically and challengeyourself physically.
Yeah, and there is an issuewith your knees.
That has been an issue sinceyou were 25.
Yeah, of knees, that isn'tideal, then that means that
you've got to spend some timespecifically that is dedicated
(12:53):
to fixing your knee problemsRight, or to at least try to
interrupt damage being done toyour knees.
Kelly Butler (12:59):
Well, I'm trying to repair it.
Well, yeah, well, I'm trying torepair and strengthen,
stabilize.
Tom Butler (13:04):
Are you specifically trying to prevent having knee
replacement surgery?
Kelly Butler (13:09):
Absolutely.
Tom Butler (13:09):
Yeah.
Kelly Butler (13:10):
It used to be for me a foregone conclusion that I
was just going to have kneesurgery, but I've totally
rejected that idea and I'mcommitted to not, and I think
I'm well on the way.
Tom Butler (13:20):
Now, the cool thing about cycling is the bike that
you have does not aggravate yourknee issues very much.
Is that correct?
Kelly Butler (13:33):
Yeah, very, very minimally.
Only if I go on really longrides can I feel a little bit,
and even then it's not bad.
Tom Butler (13:40):
And also that's a benefit with the pedal assist,
is that if you ever got in asituation, you could add more
assist.
Kelly Butler (13:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's safer to me than walkingright now.
Tom Butler (13:52):
honestly, To me, it's such a huge thing to have
pedal assist, because I can geta workout and feel comfortable
that you don't have tooverextend yourself to be riding
with me and for us to be acycling family.
(14:14):
I need that peace of mind.
Kelly Butler (14:17):
Yeah, you definitely do, and I do too, and
you know that's essential forus to enjoy and be able to do it
together.
It's just essential.
And I have to give up my prideand say, okay, I have e-assist,
fine, but I'm okay with thatbecause of what you just said.
(14:38):
You know we want to have funtogether.
I have other fitness goals andwe just want to make it as
peace-inducing as possible.
Tom Butler (14:47):
If it wasn't for your knees, then you might be
able to spend more time.
You have a fitness program thatis very specialized to your
needs and it does take time.
It does take time and if itwasn't for that, then you might
(15:07):
be able to take more time andmaybe try to build up your
strength on a bicycle andchallenge yourself on a bicycle.
And you know the whole thingthat you talk about.
Your pride is that you reallywant to see how well you could
do without the pedal assist.
Kelly Butler (15:25):
I do.
I want to see if I could keepup with you at all.
Tom Butler (15:27):
Yeah, and so that's to me.
You know, one of thosefunctions of you can't do
everything.
Kelly Butler (15:36):
Right.
Tom Butler (15:37):
And you're not going to be a cyclist.
Kelly Butler (15:39):
Right.
Tom Butler (15:40):
You're going to be part of a cycling family and
then we found a bicycle that cansupport you participating, but
you're never going to be intocycling like I'm into cycling.
Kelly Butler (15:49):
I'm not, and part of that is just what I perceive
as time commitment to get thefitness goals met on a bike, and
it might be a false impression,but my impression is that I can
achieve a level of fitnesswhere a bike is part of that but
it's not.
I can do it in a more compacttime in other ways and achieve
the fitness that I want.
Tom Butler (16:10):
Is it fair to say for both of us to admit that you
don't like cycling as much as Ido?
Kelly Butler (16:17):
Yeah, you love it, so I enjoy it.
It's really fun, but you loveit.
Tom Butler (16:24):
So there's an element of if I go out for three
hours on a ride, I'm reallyenjoying it.
I'm not doing that activity tobe fit.
Kelly Butler (16:34):
Right, yes.
Tom Butler (16:36):
I don't need three hours to be fit.
I could spend far less time onthe bicycle.
It was just about being fit.
Kelly Butler (16:44):
Okay.
Tom Butler (16:48):
What are you thinking?
Kelly Butler (16:51):
Well, I've not perceived that from you.
That's not the way I've seen itpresented.
I'm just reading it wrong maybe.
Tom Butler (16:59):
So you feel I've communicated with you that I
need every minute that I'm onthe bike in order to be fit?
Yeah, that's interesting.
Let me kind of break it down abit.
Kelly Butler (17:08):
Break it baby.
Tom Butler (17:10):
So this is a little bit of a marital counseling
session.
Kelly Butler (17:14):
Oh, no but no, just communicating.
Tom Butler (17:19):
Oh yes, not that we're in distress or anything,
we're just open, communicating.
There are different things thatneed to happen in order for me
to be the cyclist I want to be.
One of those is that, you know,I want to get stronger.
I want to have more stamina andbe stronger.
I can do that in less time thanI spend on the bike now.
(17:41):
But another layer of that isthat I want to do long rides and
, from all kinds of perspectives, I need to do long rides,
practice long rides if I'm goingto do like an event with other
people, and so I need tounderstand the energy
(18:03):
utilization it takes me to do100 miles and I need to know how
fast I can go and keep it upfor 100 miles.
So there's layers there.
And then, on top of that, thereis the emotional health impact
of being out cycling, and I feellike unplugging and going out
(18:28):
for a three-hour ride.
That's really beneficial to me.
Kelly Butler (18:34):
Yeah, I agree.
Tom Butler (18:35):
So while I'm fully admitting that I could spend
less time a week on the bike andstill be fit, there's a lot of
things about being a cyclistthat I don't think come about.
You know, just for example, dothe bike shorts I have and the
(18:56):
seat that I have?
Are they sustainable for eighthours on the bike?
You know, I'm only going tofind that out by spending eight
hours on the bike.
Kelly Butler (19:08):
Yeah, but you've done that multiple times, so I'm
not sure what you're sayingabout that.
Tom Butler (19:12):
I think there's still things to learn about what
is comfortable and what isn'tcomfortable for me, so I don't
see even admitting that I coulddo less cycling.
I don't think I'm going to getthe benefits that I want from
cycling, as far as my health areconcerned, by cutting back on
(19:33):
time, because there's justmultifaceted what keeps me
cycling.
Kelly Butler (19:39):
So you do need the time on the bike, okay, so
again, this is where you do needthe time on the bike, Okay, so
again, this is where it's acouple.
Tom Butler (19:50):
We're communicating.
You're helping yes, I need, butyou can't evaluate it just from
like my fit.
Do you see what I'm saying?
I can't justify that I needthat much time on the bike by
just my fit.
Do you see what I'm saying?
I can't justify that I needthat much time on the bike by
just being fit.
What I'm asking you to do is tosee fitness broader than just
(20:15):
are my muscles strong?
Am I burning calories?
Things like that.
Kelly Butler (20:20):
Yeah, I get that.
Tom Butler (20:21):
And I've seen you as totally open to that, obviously
Okay.
So we've established thatyou're not gonna be riding like
I get that and I've seen you astotally open to that.
Yeah, obviously Okay.
So we've established thatyou're not going to be riding
like I'm riding.
You're not going to be puttingas much time on the bike as I'm
putting on the bike.
One of the things that I'mgoing to do is I'm going to
(20:41):
participate in more organizedevents than I think you're going
to participate in.
Do you want us to be movingtowards a place where any event
that I'm doing you're going toparticipate in?
Do you want us to be movingtowards a place where any event
that I'm doing, you're going todo it with me, or are you okay
with the place that I'm going togo do events and be gone for
the day at event without you?
Kelly Butler (20:59):
No, I'm okay with that.
Tom Butler (21:01):
Okay, it makes it tougher if McKenna and Gary and
I all three are doing an eventand you're kind of left alone to
provide support.
Kelly Butler (21:12):
Mm-hmm, but I only see that as the STP.
So far, the only thing that Ihave written for support well,
not quite but primarily is theSTP, and I was planning to write
the STP this year, but otherlife events and responsibilities
is precluding that this year.
Tom Butler (21:30):
Well, let's talk about that more in a little bit,
because I want to introduceanother aspect into that
decision about doing the STP.
But you're not planning in theSTP case means that you're in
the car, you know by yourselfdriving the things.
(21:53):
That's not fantastic.
Kelly Butler (21:57):
No, it's not fantastic, but at this point in
my life there are other thingsthat I have a hard time finding
time to do, and so it's not likeit's wasted time.
I can utilize the time.
So it's not ideal and I wouldlike to move out of this period
before too long, but I'm okaybeing alone, I mean it's just.
You're right, it's not ideal,but it's manageable, it's doable
(22:19):
.
I have things I need to do andI can do it, and it's all right.
Tom Butler (22:23):
We need to find you a support buddy.
Kelly Butler (22:26):
Support buddy yeah .
Tom Butler (22:28):
So we need to find you someone whose husband is
doing the STP and she's doingsupport.
So we're putting a call outthere for a support group.
Kelly Butler (22:43):
Actually, currently I plan on doing some
continuing education, so no,nobody's going to enjoy that
with me.
So, I've got boring things todo that I need to do by myself.
Maybe next year we'll seeyou're gonna.
Tom Butler (22:58):
You're.
You've got your time booked up,yes, with stuff.
Yeah, hopefully that reallyworks for you, like you got an
ipad or whatever and you're justable to knock out a bunch of
stuff over two days.
One of the factors in all ofthis kind of being a cycling
family and what you participatein, in my opinion, is sharing
(23:24):
the road with cars.
I think that at this point,we're only looking for
experiences where you're notsharing the road with cars.
I think one of the things thatwas enjoyable about the camping
trip that we did and the bikeride that we did was that we
(23:47):
were on a trail and we were notinterfacing with cars.
Basically that whole ride.
Kelly Butler (23:54):
Sure absolutely.
Tom Butler (23:56):
Is there a way for you to communicate how it feels
for you to be on the road withcars right now?
Kelly Butler (24:04):
Well, it's not a horrible thing.
It's just not my idea of areally fun ride and it's not,
like you know, I can't have anytime on the road.
It's just that I just much moreenjoy being away from people
and cars and having to worryabout my line and keeping up and
(24:26):
not, and it just complicates itand just kind of takes some of
the enjoyment out of it fromsafety reasons and congestion
reasons.
Tom Butler (24:38):
The safety aspect of it.
Do you have a real feeling offear when you're on the road
that something could happen withan interaction with a car?
Kelly Butler (24:49):
I'm not riding with fear.
Something could happen with aninteraction with a car.
I'm not riding with fear.
I have more thoughts of fearafterwards than during or even
before.
I mean, it's not like I worryabout it, it's not like I'm
stressing about it, and when I'mriding it's just hey, I'm
riding and it's going to be okayand we're going to be fine.
But afterwards I think back onit, it's like, eh, that's not
(25:09):
ideal.
Tom Butler (25:10):
From a safety perspective.
Kelly Butler (25:12):
I mean, there's other things that I don't like
about it, but from a safetyperspective, it's not like I'm
trembling or just likeconstantly thinking about it.
It's just you're thinking abouthow to be safe but I'm not like
, oh no, I'm going to get hit.
Tom Butler (25:26):
When a car passes you, do you feel that sense of
vulnerability sometimes at thosepoints?
Kelly Butler (25:35):
I don't know.
I feel like an imposition.
I feel like I'm annoying thecars.
Tom Butler (25:41):
Well, that's an interesting thought.
So if you felt like drivers ofcars were looking at bicycles
and saying, hey, they belonghere too.
You have every right to theroad.
I'm glad you're out gettinghealthy you know a whole bunch
of positive thoughts as they'recoming up on you then that might
change the experience of beingon the road for you.
Kelly Butler (26:04):
Yeah, yeah, it would.
Tom Butler (26:06):
But instead, what do you think they're thinking?
Kelly Butler (26:09):
I'm slowing them down.
You know you shouldn't be outhere.
This is for cars and you'reannoying.
You're an imposition.
Tom Butler (26:17):
Yeah, I think that's true.
I think there's a percentage ofdrivers that are like bikes
don't belong on roads that carsdrive on, and I think that's a
factor.
And again, cycling together ifyou and I are cycling together,
I think if we eliminate that, wego a long way to making our
(26:42):
cycling adventures together moreenjoyable.
How are you planning oneliminating that by not sharing
a road with cars?
Kelly Butler (26:48):
Oh, I see, yeah, definitely.
Tom Butler (26:50):
So I think that's right now where we're at.
I think there would be someexceptions to that, you know,
but I think, for the most part,as we're planning out, there's
ways for us to avoid sharingroad with cars, and that's what
we did on this trip that we tookto the Olympic Discovery Trail
road with cars, and that's whatwe did on this trip that we took
(27:12):
to the Olympic Discovery Trail.
Kelly Butler (27:16):
Yeah, so is there a shortage of places like that
to ride?
It seems like the group ridesdon't frequently do that.
They seem to be road rides mostof the time.
Tom Butler (27:19):
I think there's a couple elements to that.
Probably the biggest thing isthat you know if we're out on a
trail as a couple cyclists, oryou know even if we've got a
group of five or six peoplecycling together on a trail as a
couple cyclists, or you knoweven if we've got a group of
five or six people cyclingtogether on a trail, then that's
not disrupting the trail.
(27:40):
But if you dump hundreds ofpeople on a trail, then it's
really disruptive to the trailbecause the trail is a multi-use
trail.
It's not a cycling trail, it'sa multi-use trail and so dumping
, you know, hundreds of peopleor thousands of people on a
trail, it really changes thedynamics of the trail.
So I think that that's onereason that organized rides will
(28:07):
be on roads.
I think another reason is thatthey're not very connected.
You know like to go fromSeattle to Portland all on
trails is just not possible, soyou're going to be on roads.
And then I think another factoris, for the most part, if
(28:29):
you're an experienced cyclistand you're on a road like a
backcountry road that doesn'thave much traffic at all there's
plenty of opportunities forcars to pass and give a wide
distance, then I think thatriding on those roads are okay.
Kelly Butler (28:53):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (28:54):
So I think ride organizers really look for those
roads as part of the route,yeah, and see that is pretty
good.
But again for us, for now, Ithink that it's better that we
just find ways to avoid cars.
Kelly Butler (29:09):
For the most part, yeah.
Tom Butler (29:11):
So here's a question that you might have a hard time
answering.
Okay, okay.
How many cycling trips is theright amount to do a year for
you?
Kelly Butler (29:25):
Yeah, you're right , who knows?
Tom Butler (29:26):
So here's one aspect of this my cycling season is a
12-month season.
Kelly Butler (29:33):
your cycling season season is not a 12-month
season well, you've been on yourtrainer all winter long, so
don't give me are you?
Tom Butler (29:50):
okay?
Let's be realistic.
Okay, if it's miserablymiserable weather right out
there, I do appreciate thetrainer I've been appreciating
it a little too much.
Kelly Butler (30:03):
I'm seeing you on it when it's beautiful and sunny
outside and I'm like, okay,buddy, you're missing the fresh
air.
You're not doing.
This is not the way I think youreally want it okay.
Tom Butler (30:18):
So there is this misinterpretation of why I'm on
the bike.
So there's other reasons thatI'm on the trainer in the house,
then it's bad weather outside,so I don't know that.
That's fair, believe me it'snot totally fair but I would.
There are times that I'm on thetrainer, that I'm looking
outside.
(30:39):
It's beautiful and I wish withall my heart that I could be out
there.
You know, part of the problemis that it does take time to go
out on the road and I don'treally enjoy going for 10 miles
out on the road.
You know, if I'm going to goout on the road I like to go for
(30:59):
like 25 miles.
So if I'm just going to do 10miles to burn off breakfast, I
do have a tendency to jump onthe trainer.
Yeah, but your concern aboutthe trainer has been noted and
it doesn't seem near as fun.
Kelly Butler (31:19):
It's like you like to ride outside, it just
doesn't seem.
I'm just feeling sad for yourbody.
Tom Butler (31:26):
I'm telling you it's absolutely not as fun.
It feels like your time justslows down when you're on a trip
.
Yeah, when you go outside onthe bike, time speeds up.
But yeah, so it absolutely so.
I'm not.
I'm not like cheating, okay,but it is convenient and you
(31:48):
know there are some aspects ofit that do make it attractive.
But I'm noting that you think Ineed to get outside more.
Kelly Butler (31:58):
It's your journey.
Well, okay.
So you were saying I'm not a12-month bicyclist.
Where were you going with that?
What were you trying to get to?
Tom Butler (32:07):
I think it's fair.
I think it's a fair comment.
Kelly Butler (32:10):
That I'm not a 12 month bicyclist.
Tom Butler (32:12):
Yes.
Kelly Butler (32:12):
Absolutely Okay.
Tom Butler (32:14):
So let's say that you're a four month cyclist.
Are you comfortable with sayingyou're a four month cyclist?
Kelly Butler (32:27):
Sure.
Tom Butler (32:28):
Did you want to extend that the five months or
do you think four is pretty good?
Kelly Butler (32:33):
What's that?
April, may, june, july, mayJune, july, august, four or five
.
Tom Butler (32:38):
Yeah.
So looking at our area, I thinkabout this time of year we're
in mid-May about this time ofyear, I think it starts getting
nice.
Kelly Butler (32:50):
Well, we've had for the last month, I'd say,
time so we could go.
Tom Butler (32:54):
Yeah, but reliably.
Yeah, I think reliably aboutmid-May it starts getting nice.
So that would be June, July,August, September would be four
months.
Kelly Butler (33:08):
So six months.
Then we went camping andcycling in April.
Tom Butler (33:12):
Yeah, so I'm saying five months reliably.
Kelly Butler (33:18):
Okay.
Tom Butler (33:19):
I think if we're going to plan like cycling
adventures, then I think we'relooking at five months.
Oh, I see.
Kelly Butler (33:27):
I was just thinking hopping on the bike and
going, but I wasn't thinkingplanned adventures.
Tom Butler (33:31):
Yeah.
So I think, yeah, I think if wesee a nice day, let's jump on
the bike and go.
I'm over that.
But to plan out, you know, atrip or something, I think five
months.
Kelly Butler (33:40):
Okay, here's a question about a cycling family.
Does that mean we don't doanything else, active on any
trips?
Tom Butler (33:50):
What I would say to that is basically yes.
Kelly Butler (33:54):
No, I say no.
Tom Butler (33:57):
So the thing is that this conversation we're having
about how many trips you can do,it's a serious conversation,
because it's like you're busy.
You've got more on your platenow because we're taking care of
your mother more, and so wedon't have many times that we
(34:19):
can go out and do things now.
So if we eliminate somethingyou know from a cycling trip,
then that takes one of only afew things away.
So I would like to focus oncycling.
(34:40):
The question is, what are younot getting by cycling?
Kelly Butler (34:44):
Variety.
Tom Butler (34:45):
What variety would you want?
Kelly Butler (34:49):
Hiking and jet skiing.
Tom Butler (34:50):
Okay, so these are two different topics that I want
to cover both of them.
Oh, no One.
Hiking Okay, your knees can'ttake hiking.
Kelly Butler (35:05):
I can't do it right now.
Tom Butler (35:06):
Yeah, so we're not considering hiking right now.
No, now, yeah, so we're not.
We're not considering hikingright now.
No, you know, hopefully we canconsider that future, but let's
have that discussion in thefuture.
I would like to do abackpacking trip as a family
every year, but right now yourknees aren't in a condition for
us to consider that, so weshould consider that okay, now
(35:29):
cycling is enough.
Kelly Butler (35:31):
Okay, okay now wait, wait, wait, jet skiing
okay the way I ride it's likeit's active this comes down.
Tom Butler (35:45):
Listeners of this podcast, I'm saying this for
your benefit.
This comes down to a differencewhen it comes to recreation for
you and me, because we're nottalking to sit down jet ski,
we're talking to stand up jetski.
I understand what you're talkingabout.
You're talking about you like ajet ski, that you're doing a
whole lot of manipulation andeverything about and having a
(36:09):
lot of fun going fast, and youwant to be doing a lot of sharp
turns, a lot of, you know,throwing the jet ski around,
which you did a lot when you'reyounger.
This is part of what energizesyou.
If we went back in time, youwere way more likely to become a
motorcycle racer, like a dirtbike racer, than you were a
(36:34):
cyclist.
You like motorized things, youlike going fast, all that stuff.
However, I see two big issueswith that what, what?
Kelly Butler (36:49):
I'm not 25 anymore .
Tom Butler (36:54):
Well, one is that we don't have an abundance of time
, and so I really feel like weneed to be active when we're
recreating, and you cannot beactive on a jet ski.
Kelly Butler (37:08):
Those are fighting words.
Tom Butler (37:10):
I know that you have a hard time accepting this.
I'm here to help you acceptthis.
Kelly Butler (37:17):
Now we shouldn't even be talking about it,
because I haven't jet skied in along time and we're not going
to do much of it, but it's justan example of something that is
fun to do outside and for me, isactive.
Tom Butler (37:28):
For you, it was active.
Uh-huh, you want to step on ajet ski.
You know a stand-up jet ski andyou want to abuse that jet ski
and at the same time, you'reabusing your body and you're
just not in a place where youcan do that right now.
Kelly Butler (37:49):
All right, I feel like people don't need to hear
me whine about wanting to testgame process.
Tom Butler (37:56):
I think people do want to hear you process this.
I wish I could do a show ofhands.
Who wants to hear Kelly processthis?
But if you get to the pointwhere you have put in a lot of
work and you've built yourselfup to the point where you can
thrash a jet ski and not hurtyourself, I'd be for that.
(38:19):
But you're just not there.
I mean, I've seen you ride ajet ski, I know what you're
doing to the jet ski and I knowwhat the forces you're exerting
is doing to your body and you'rejust not there.
You're gonna pull somethingokay, what's the benchmark?
Kelly Butler (38:35):
I get there.
Tom Butler (38:36):
I don't know.
We can figure that out.
We can do some work on that tosee how we would know that, as
you're thrashing the jet ski,that your body is safe.
We can do that work okay, butfor now I think a jet ski, as
fun as it sounds, it's somethingthat's not gonna be that
(38:57):
helpful.
But the truth of the matter is,in being a cycling family, you
know, we're not being like amotorcycle family right and I.
I think I personally have tohave that because I need to stay
strong, I need to be active.
When we're doing recreation, Ineed to be active.
Kelly Butler (39:17):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (39:18):
I like motorcycles I used to own a motorcycle but I
need to be active.
I need to be flexing muscleswhen I'm doing recreation.
There's another element of thisthat I think is super relevant.
One thing that I think aboutyou riding jet skis is I think
about your shoulders.
Kelly Butler (39:36):
You don't need to go there.
It's going to be longer.
Before you let me ride one, solet's not go there.
Tom Butler (39:40):
No, we're going there.
You think that was going toshut it down.
Kelly Butler (39:48):
I'm working on it though.
Tom Butler (39:50):
Well, you are and I'm super proud of you and what
you're doing.
You're doing some awesome stuff, but here's where it factors in
.
There was a hope that we hadthat we could.
Part of the desire to be offthe road is that we could do
gravel riding, and I think westill have that hope.
(40:12):
That's something that you stillsee as attractive, right?
Kelly Butler (40:15):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (40:17):
And you experienced it when we did the Port Townsend
tour that we did a three-daytour, we experienced some dirt
trails and they were reallypacked down.
It was really smooth, packeddown gravel trail.
You know it was more dirtpacked dirt than like big uh
(40:40):
rocks that you might find onsome gravel trail.
But super enjoyed that ride.
There's beautiful scenery alongthe coast and no cars and that
was a really enjoyableexperience and so we're seeking
out to have more of a gravelexperience.
Kelly Butler (41:00):
So for me some of the most enjoyable bike riding
that we've had was we were outat Port Townsend on the Larry
Scott Trail on kind of a packeddown gravel dirt trails, and
there was something about thatthat was just really fun and
really enjoyable.
I don't know all the elementsof that.
I do think that it was is morean element of you're surrounded
(41:22):
by nature rather than surroundedby cars and cement and rails
and side rails and all that kindof stuff.
It was just really fun ridingthrough trees.
There's something about thatthat just really resonates with
me and it was really fun.
So I guess that's why we've beenconsidering a gravel bike, you
know, so we can do more of that.
(41:42):
I'm trying to figure out, Imean, what we did there was
actually completely fine on mycruise bike, but thinking that
if we're going to pursue more ofthat then we're not going to
find such beautifully packeddown easy to ride trails and
there'd be more of a need for agravel bike.
So we've been looking at that.
(42:02):
But that at this point seems tome maybe is still a little bit
hard for my shoulders.
Tom Butler (42:07):
One of the factors here is that we just don't know
how much of that perfect trailpacked down dirt, really small
gravel, that we would findaround.
You know, hopefully we can finda lot of that, but I think it's
not highly likely.
I don't know, I just don't know,but we need to get out and
(42:31):
explore which you know.
It's part of what we're goingto do.
But the truth of the matter is,even though the cruise bike is
really good for you, you are notable to absorb bumps with your
legs and arms like you would ona traditional bike Right, and so
(42:53):
the roughness of the road getstransported into your body on
the cruise bike.
And so on the cruise bike youcurrently have.
Kelly Butler (43:07):
Yeah, on my current cruise bike the S40.
Tom Butler (43:09):
Which is an S40.
So we decided that maybe wecould find a mountain bike with
suspension that you'd be able touse on gravel, and we could
find a bike that would fit youand everything and it'd be okay.
So we set out to do that.
How would you describe what welearned from our attempt to do
(43:33):
that?
Kelly Butler (43:35):
Well, I would describe it as bittersweet,
because it's really fun ridingthe bike, but I was on the bike
for a very short time and myshoulders my left shoulder in
particular was not happy.
Tom Butler (43:46):
Yeah, so in addition to your knees, then you do have
some shoulder issues.
Kelly Butler (43:50):
Yes.
Tom Butler (43:51):
And our hope would be that you could strengthen
them in a way that it wouldn'tbe an issue on a bike.
But we're just not going to beable.
You know, for this year we'rejust not going to be able to
have that as an option.
Maybe down the road, but youwere on the bike for maybe 20
minutes, 25 minutes.
Kelly Butler (44:09):
At the most.
Tom Butler (44:10):
But even in that amount of time, then your
shoulders aren't in a placewhere you can have that position
.
Kelly Butler (44:18):
Yeah, my left shoulder, which is the one
that's impacted by my work themost.
You can have that position.
Yeah, my left shoulder, whichis the one that's impacted by my
work the most you know yeah 30years of my work has impacted
that.
Tom Butler (44:25):
Yeah and it was enough that it doesn't feel like
a bike fit is going to fix that, or it's going to fix that.
Yeah, when you said bittersweet, you loved that bike, right?
Yeah, yeah, I did, and that wasa Trek Marlin Plus 8, if
anybody's curious, and it's likeif there was any bike out there
(44:48):
that you would be attracted to.
I think that bike was like areally good bike for you.
Kelly Butler (44:54):
Well, it's the only one I tried, but I did love
it.
Tom Butler (44:56):
We've tried other bikes and you know you had a
mountain bike in the past, whichwas fine at the time, yeah.
The features and everything onthis bike.
There were just a lot of reallygood features.
Kelly Butler (45:08):
Yeah, there were fun features.
Tom Butler (45:10):
And to go in different directions than that
Marlin Plus 8, then it would begetting into more aggressive of
a mountain bike and that's notgoing to be right for you.
Or if we went the otherdirection, it would be more of a
hybrid kind of a road bike andI just don't think that's as
aggressive from a shockabsorption perspective and
(45:32):
everything that we were lookingfor.
So I think your experience withthat bike means for now, a
traditional bike isn't an option.
Kelly Butler (45:40):
Right Boo.
Tom Butler (45:42):
Boo-hoo, but that doesn't mean that a new bike
isn't on the horizon for you.
Maybe, we should talk aboutwhat the dynamics are around you
getting a new bike.
For now, you're going to staywith cruise bike.
Kelly Butler (46:01):
Right.
Tom Butler (46:02):
Yes, you've appreciated your cruise bike, I
believe.
Kelly Butler (46:05):
I have.
I've loved it.
I really have I mean thecomfort for with my body
challenges with knees, wristsand shoulders, it's been amazing
.
It's just handled those issuescompletely.
It is fun to ride.
And the e-assist I have to say,as much as I sometimes don't
(46:27):
like the thought of it, thee-assist has been really fun and
really useful and so it's justbeen a great bike.
I don't want to get rid of itat all.
Tom Butler (46:38):
I think one of the biggest things is that you
hadn't been on a bike for months, and then we went on this trip.
We did 20 miles, which is anincredibly long way, but still
it was enough, and then youdidn't have any pain.
Kelly Butler (46:52):
Zero.
Tom Butler (46:54):
And so the position of the cruise bike right now
makes cycling possible for you.
Kelly Butler (47:00):
Right, yeah, absolutely.
Tom Butler (47:02):
But the problem is again if we were going to go on
some rougher roads then all thebumps and everything in the road
would transfer to your body.
Kelly Butler (47:11):
We've tried it and it's not fun.
Yeah, it's not fun.
Tom Butler (47:15):
But there is another option.
Kelly Butler (47:16):
Yeah, possibly.
Tom Butler (47:18):
So talk about that option.
Kelly Butler (47:19):
But there is another option, yeah, possibly,
so talk about that option.
Well, a cruise bike has anothermodel called the Q45 that has
suspension and is a little bitmore upright, so we can give it
a try.
I mean, I can go test ride it.
I don't know, it's an option,it's a possibility.
Tom Butler (47:35):
Are there things about the Q45 that you don't
like?
Kelly Butler (47:41):
I don't like how it looks, as much I don't know
Well what is about the look thatyou don't like?
I don't know, just the framedoesn't look as smooth, I don't
know.
Tom Butler (47:53):
Oh, interesting, isn't that funny.
It looks a little more clunky.
Kelly Butler (47:56):
Yeah, yeah, and my understanding when we were
looking at which one to buy.
I mean, it wouldn't be as goodfor road biking when we're doing
yeah.
Tom Butler (48:06):
I don't know.
I think you know we got when wegot the S40, so just if you're
(48:26):
curious about cruise bike and asa recumbent option, you should
go to cruisebikecomC-R-U-Z-B-I-K-Ecom and you can
see everything there.
But they have a V20, which istheir most aerodynamic bike and
it's really the bike that peoplethat want to use them for
racing get.
And then they have the S40 thatKelly currently has and that's
you're not laid back as far.
So the 20 and the 40 kind ofrelate to how far you lean back,
(48:49):
and then the Q45 is up a littlemore.
Kelly Butler (48:54):
But also but it's also variable.
Tom Butler (48:56):
Yeah, it has some adjustment, yeah, and so if we
knew then what we know now, Ithink we probably would have
gone with the Q45.
Kelly Butler (49:04):
Yeah, very possibly yeah.
Tom Butler (49:06):
And so this aspect of having some suspension.
The seat is separated from theframe by a shock absorber.
By a shock absorber, theability to have that is, I think
, going to help unlock somethings for us cycling together?
Kelly Butler (49:27):
Yeah, but are those things things that you're
interested in too?
Are you interested in moremountain biking?
Gravel riding Are youinterested in that too?
Tom Butler (49:36):
Here's what I think gravel riding opens up One I do
think that there's a lot ofplaces that you can go and feel
like you're out, away frompeople, you know, when you're
gravel riding, and I thinkthat's really attractive to me.
I'm also really interested indoing some gravel riding,
bikepacking trips Reallyinterested in that, and so I
(50:00):
want to be able to do that.
But I think, for you again, I'mgoing to enjoy the cycling no
matter what, but for you, Ithink, your enjoyment when we
were riding the Larry ScottTrail that really should be
taken in account when we'replanning trips together to find
(50:21):
things that you really enjoydoing on the bike, and I think
gravel riding would definitelybe one of those things.
I think the thing that youwould have to get over is how
upright you look when you're ona Q45.
Kelly Butler (50:35):
Maybe, possibly I might like it better, I don't
know.
Tom Butler (50:38):
To me it is definitely inefficient.
The position that you're in isreally inefficient, and if
you've got a headwind, you'recatching a lot of wind.
Just being up a little bit more, you're catching a lot of wind,
and so to me the q45 is not asattractive because of the
(51:07):
position that you're in fromthat perspective.
But when you've got pedalassist, then that takes that
away.
Don't come with motors, so wewould definitely have to get a
motor fitted to that bike again.
That does mean something.
Kelly Butler (51:20):
What.
Tom Butler (51:21):
What do you think it means?
Kelly Butler (51:22):
I have to give up my S40?
.
Tom Butler (51:25):
Well, that's not necessarily what it means, but
you know the investment that wemade in the S40.
Yes, and putting a motor on itpretty much doubles the cost.
So there's a question of do yougive up the S40?
Do you keep the S40?
(51:46):
And we go ahead and put out thedollars to get a Q45 and have a
motor put on it.
That's a decision that's goingto have to be made.
Kelly Butler (51:56):
Yep.
Tom Butler (52:04):
Well, am I worth it, Kelly?
No, the answer to that question.
You're absolutely worth it Beable to go on cycling trips with
you.
It's just fantastic.
I love it.
Kelly Butler (52:11):
I really don't want to give up my S40.
Tom Butler (52:13):
I know that you don't, and I think there are
ways to do this where you don'thave to give up your S40.
Maybe give up the electricassist on the S40 and we put
that motor on the Q45.
I don't know, but I definitelydon't think you should give up
the S40 until you're ready togive up the S40.
How's that?
Kelly Butler (52:32):
Okay, deal.
Tom Butler (52:33):
We don't know for sure that the Q45 is going to
solve the problem, but we aregoing to do a test drive of it
and uh, and hopefully you know,we find that the, the shock
takes a lot of the, the bumpsout of the road, but we don't
know.
And there's one other issue tooone of the biggest advantages
(52:54):
with the s40 is that you're ableto rest your neck.
Kelly Butler (52:57):
I don don't think that's going to be a problem on
the Q45.
You don't think?
Tom Butler (53:05):
so no, okay, you're upright more so you don't really
need support for it?
Kelly Butler (53:07):
I don't think, but if they don't have any support?
Tom Butler (53:09):
I don't know.
Yeah, we'll see.
Okay, so two things that we'regoing to need to figure out, and
we know a place that has a Q45that we can go test ride it.
Okay, I want to circle back tosomething that I don't think
that we actually finalized, thatis, given these parameters, we
can do gravel riding.
We've got you on a Q45 and itworks, and we can do gravel
(53:33):
riding.
You feel like you're out innature.
More you're away from cars,more there's there's just a lot
of things that make it enjoyablefor you.
How many cycling trips togetherare we going to do in five
months?
Kelly Butler (53:51):
What does a trip consist of?
Is it all overnight?
Tom Butler (53:53):
I think it's overnight.
I think we drive someplace, wespend the night, we go for a
ride the next day and we comehome.
You know, we drive someplace.
New experience, someplace new.
Kelly Butler (54:06):
Three.
Tom Butler (54:06):
Three.
I think that's fair.
I think one a month is just toomuch, yeah, so Currently, okay,
I like that a lot, and we needto figure out a way to make
those trips attractive to ourkids too, so we can do family
vacations together, becausethat's really fun.
Kelly Butler (54:25):
Or if we can't entice the kids, then there's an
invitation out there for otherpeople to join us.
Tom Butler (54:31):
I like that a lot.
We haven't developed a wholegroup of cycling friends, but we
really should work on doingthat.
Yeah, one more subject to talkabout quickly, and that's my
diet.
What is your thoughts?
I've made this change and youwere a you're a large part of
why I made this change.
What is your evaluation at thispoint of the benefit of making
(54:57):
this change?
Kelly Butler (54:58):
Well, I see it as very promising from what we've
seen, very promising, and thebenefit of getting a much higher
level of nutrition inconsistently has long lasting
implications, not just bloodsugar control but from overall
wellness.
So I see it as very promising.
Tom Butler (55:15):
So that was one of the reasons you were attracted
to this thing, because you feltthere was more diversity as far
as nutrition is concerned.
Kelly Butler (55:22):
Yeah, More nutritional density by far.
Tom Butler (55:25):
Okay, okay, how are you feeling at this point about
my compliance?
Kelly Butler (55:30):
You really want me to answer that.
Tom Butler (55:34):
I think it's good to be open.
It's part of the journey to beopen.
Kelly Butler (55:43):
It's part of the journey, well, as they say
there's.
It's not a straight line from ato b, from the bottom to the
top of the journey, but so youhad some good start and you've
blown it big time and, I think,sabotage your progress.
But it is what it is and I'mI'm just trying to back off and
let you do it your way and Ihope it works out in the end.
I love how you snuck insabotage Well, I didn't sneak it
(56:10):
in, I railroaded it in.
I mean, in your mind there's apossibility that I'm sabotaging
because I don't want to eat thisway.
No, you were sabotaging yourprogress, not sabotaging the
Well.
I don't think your intention isto sabotage the program.
If that's the case, then I'mreally going to be sad.
(56:32):
But I was just talking about Ithink you put a big dent in your
progress and made the journeyharder for yourself.
Tom Butler (56:42):
Okay, I appreciate your support in this change.
It takes a lot more cooking,and I've appreciated your
willingness to help with that.
I've not embraced this thing.
I do like some things that I'veseen, but there's part of it
that I have problems with too.
For now I'm making a commitmentto you that I'm going to stick
(57:03):
with this program, you know, andsee it through for the six
weeks.
Kelly Butler (57:09):
Six months.
Tom Butler (57:10):
Well, I'm going to see it through for the six weeks
.
The six weeks is the insulinreset.
Kelly Butler (57:17):
Are you starting over then?
Tom Butler (57:18):
I don't think it's that specific.
I think that I have had somebumps, but I think that that's
part of the progress.
As you said, they expect that.
So I think at the end of sixweeks then I'm going to have
enough data to really evaluatethis program.
Kelly Butler (57:34):
Okay, if you stick with it for the rest of the six
weeks, cool.
Tom Butler (57:38):
Awesome.
I will do my best.
Kelly Butler (57:40):
I know I'm not expecting perfection, but close,
close to perfection.
Tom Butler (57:46):
You can see perfection from where I am is
the way that you want it to be.
All right, kelly Butler, thishas been awesome.
I love talking bikes with youand I love again this clarifying
what it means for us to be acycling family, and I think
there's these three cyclingtrips that we take in a year and
(58:10):
I hope those get more and moreadventurous as time goes on.
I'd like to see a bike andbarge trip in our future.
I'd love that, and maybe visitsome areas, take a week cycling
at some point, but that wereally focus on.
For us right now, being acycling family means three trips
a year.
(58:31):
Yeah, I like it Awesome.
Well, thank you, it's been fun,it's fun, I like having you here
.
So, talk to you later, okay,bye see you around.
I will see you around bye, bye.
(58:54):
I thought that was a reallyvaluable conversation.
As you can hear, kelly doesn'tget the same level of enjoyment
out of cycling as I do.
However, I think it is awesomethat we can still figure out how
to make cycling a big part ofour family time.
I love this aspect of thebicycle it's a device with a lot
of flexibility.
Because of Kelly's knees, wecouldn't be something like a
(59:15):
skiing family, but with cyclingwe have been able to find a bike
that accommodates herindividual physical challenges.
After we recorded, kellymentioned that she felt bad that
we talked a lot about jetskiing.
She felt like she was whiningabout it, but I felt like our
discussion illustrated animportant point.
Kelly and I enjoy differentactivities.
I don't believe that she's in agood place right now to thrash
(59:37):
her body on a jet ski, but alsoI need to be keeping my eye open
for things that we can do as acouple that feed her desire for
speed.
It will be our ability to craftactivities that we both enjoy
that will allow us to have asustainable active recreation
focus.
I hope that you are findingactive recreation activities
with your family, including somegreat cycling adventures.
(59:59):
Ideally, you are enjoying thefresh air, the sun on your skin
and some beautiful scenery.
And remember age is just a gearchange.
This is the Cycling Over 60 podcast, season three,
episode 29,.
A new cycling season for Kelly,and I'm your host, tom Butler.
I'm one of those people thatcan go full tilt into something,
(00:26):
only to find out I've missedsomething important after it's
too late.
A rather significant part offeeding my cycling is making
sure that I get enoughelectrolytes.
I still don't know exactly howmuch I should be consuming, but
I think I have found a strategythat helps me avoid cramps, so I
see that as a good sign thatI'm doing something right with
electrolyte consumption.
(00:47):
Until recently, I've been usinga pre-formulated electrolyte
powder that I mix into mybottles for when I'm riding.
I up the amount I take so thatI put two packets of the powder
in 24 ounces of water.
That 24 ounces goes about 10miles, so on a 30-mile ride I
have been consuming six packetsof electrolyte powder.
I'm not recommending this foranyone else, and I do have a
(01:09):
hope that I'll eventually beable to find a way to really
dial in how much I should beconsuming for my personal
physiology.
Until I find a way to dial itin more specifically for me,
until I can dial it in morespecifically for what I need,
I'm going to be consuming 500milligrams of potassium, 110
grams of sodium and 200milligrams of magnesium every 10
(01:32):
miles.
There are other minerals in thepackets that I take, but these
are the three that I'm mostinterested in.
I decided to see if I could finda more economical source for
electrolytes.
I'm estimating that I currentlyspend about 20 cents a mile for
electrolytes, so for the 206mile STP I would spend $41.20.
I wanted to see if I could makethat cheaper.
(01:52):
I also wanted to see if I couldfind a more bioavailable form
of electrolytes.
I found a source for bulkelectrolytes appropriately
called bulksupplementscom.
After some reading, I chosemagnesium glycinate and
potassium gluconate as a sourcefor these two electrolytes and I
decided to use Himalayan saltfor sodium.
(02:13):
I purchased 2.2 pounds of boththe magnesium glycinate and the
potassium gluconate.
I also purchased some limepowder to provide some flavor.
Doing the math, my homemadeelectrolyte blend comes out to
about five cents per mile.
So over the 206 mile STP I'mlooking at spending $10.30 for
electrolytes by making thischange.
To be honest, I'm not thatexcited about saving $30 for
(02:36):
electrolytes on a two-day groupride, but if I extend that out
to a year that's a little better.
I'm planning on hitting about3,700 miles this year.
So at 20 cents a mile that's$740.
At 5 cents a mile I would putout $180 a year for electrolytes
.
That makes it seem a littlemore worth it to do it on my own
.
(02:56):
There, of course, is some effortto using the powders over
pre-packaged options.
I picked up some small Ziplocbags very cheaply, so I'll take
a few hours here and there tofill a bunch of these bags so
it's easy for me to take on aride.
Here's where it getsproblematic.
The potassium gluconate tasteshorrible Because I got a 2.2
pound bag of it, against Kelly'sadvice.
(03:18):
By the way, I have 333 waterbottles, or 3,330 miles of
really bad tasting potassiumgluconate to get through.
I'm holding out hope that I canfind some form of flavor that
can mask the taste of thepotassium, but in reality I
think it's going to be mileafter mile of putting up with it
.
I really don't have a choice.
Having said, oh, it will befine when Kelly suggested
(03:42):
starting out with a small bagtill I knew it was going to work
out.
Now maybe it's an acquiredtaste and after 500 miles or so
I will look forward to it.
But I'm not betting on that,and there's another significant
problem it takes a lot of effortto get it to mix evenly in the
water.
I will be shaking and shakingand shaking the water bottles to
get it to not just be a clumpin the bottom, and that's truly
(04:05):
a pain in the neck Because Idove right in with these options
.
It means that I'm going to havea good long time to see how it
works out.
I've certainly been enjoying theweekly rides with the Tacoma
Washington Bicycle Club thatI've started to do, and I had a
wonderful experience one week.
I met a cyclist named Steve onthe trail recently.
We got talking about localroutes and I made the comment
(04:27):
that I'm a slow climber.
Steve looked at me and said Ican see that isn't true.
So Steve doesn't know that mylegs look stronger than they
perform, but that is okay,because I am thrilled that I
look strong.
To someone Two years ago, noone would have questioned me
commenting that I'm a slowclimber.
In that little time I've beenable to reshape my body, so at
least it looks strong andobviously I am a much better
(04:50):
climber than I was two years ago.
My transformation should givehope to anyone who wants to get
stronger later in life.
Speaking of climbing, I mightbe making a mistake.
This weekend I tucked myselfinto riding the second
cycle-coordinated event, calledDestiny Dozen.
It's a ride up the 12 toughesthills in Tacoma.
The ride is 30 miles with 4,500feet of elevation.
(05:11):
There's an interesting aspectto this ride.
I think it is fashioned afterthe Dirty Dozen ride in
Pittsburgh.
Everyone meets at the bottom ofa hill, then the organizers
give a signal and you race tothe top.
There are two groups One ridesfast between climbs and the
other rides slow between climbs.
I will be in the slow group andnot looking to see how fast I
(05:32):
can climb.
My goal will be just to make itto the top of all 12 climbs.
If I make it, it will be thesecond most I have climbed in a
day, so wish me luck.
At the beginning of this seasonof the podcast, I talked with my
(05:54):
family and asked the questionare we a cycling family?
We decided the answer was yes,but now we're at the point where
we start defining what thatmeans in practice.
The most important person in mylife when it comes to me making
healthy decisions is my wife,kelly.
Family has an incredible impacton the choices we make.
I thought it was time to checkin with Kelly and hear about her
(06:14):
cycling journey, which is verydifferent from mine, and talk
with her about her currentthoughts about what it means to
be a cycling family.
Here is Kelly.
I am here with my favoriteguest.
Thank you, kelly Butler, forjoining me on the podcast again.
Kelly Butler (06:29):
Good to be here.
Tom Butler (06:30):
Now you are a bit of an experiment.
Do you know that?
Kelly Butler (06:36):
Sure.
Tom Butler (06:37):
Do you?
Kelly Butler (06:39):
I'm always an experiment.
But what do you mean by that?
But what do you mean by that?
Tom Butler (06:43):
Well, you are not really a cyclist, right, so kind
of our journey together rightnow.
I consider myself a cyclist,but you are kind of pulled in
and we've talked in the pastabout us being a cycling family,
so it's kind of an experimentabout how you can be part of a
(07:04):
cycling family when you'rereally not that much of a
cyclist.
Are you okay with thatexperiment?
Yes, okay, good.
Are there any things about thatexperiment that you're
particularly happy about?
Kelly Butler (07:16):
Well, anything that increases family time,
outdoor time and movement timeI'm in favor of, so I like all
of that.
Tom Butler (07:23):
And I think there's a big thing for us at our age
which, in about a month and ahalf, something like that,
you're going to be cycling over60.
Yep, so I think there'ssomething that we've really
latched onto that at our age weneed to take activity seriously.
Kelly Butler (07:43):
Well, for sure I wouldn't say it's any less
serious below that age, butcertainly continues through that
age and beyond.
Tom Butler (07:52):
I would argue that you can get away with being
inactive easier when you'reyounger than when you're older,
just from a perspective ofmetabolism slowing down.
Kelly Butler (08:04):
Well, it depends on what you're getting away with
.
You're still having breakdownand degeneration of systems.
It's just not as visible.
So you might be getting awaywith it, but you're really not.
You're just not aware of it, inmy opinion.
Tom Butler (08:19):
I think it's a really valid observation.
But I would say that you canrecover when you're younger and
you have breakdown of a system,then you can recover better than
when you're older.
And I think that, again, justfrom the perspective of
metabolism, if you go a whilewithout any physical activity,
(08:42):
if you pick it up again, you'regoing to recover from it.
But I would say at our age wehave to be consistent with it.
Kelly Butler (08:50):
Ideally, for sure, yeah.
Tom Butler (08:52):
So then, you know we've embraced activity and
active recreation, activevacations and all kinds of
things in that realm.
Yes, we recently did somethingthat we have never done, and
that was that we went out on acamping trip specifically to
(09:14):
ride a trail.
So we took the bikes and wecamped.
You know, it was in a yurt, soit was different than, for sure,
bikepacking would be, but wespecifically went out to go have
a cycling adventure, and Idon't know that that's something
that we've done as a familybefore.
Kelly Butler (09:35):
No, I don't think so.
Tom Butler (09:37):
How did you find that trip?
Did you enjoy that?
Kelly Butler (09:40):
Very much.
Yeah, I loved it.
I loved where we camped.
I loved seeing new places.
Being outside, the ease of theyear was nice.
Just pull up and have a tentthere and then to have a trail
close by was just ideal.
I thought it was a perfectweekend.
Tom Butler (09:57):
And I think that's a model of weekends that I would
like to see come, and I think ifwe do that, then you know we're
going to have cyclingintegrated into our vacations in
a really healthy way.
That was the first time you'vebeen out on your bike this year,
so that's a very differentexperience than what I'm having,
(10:23):
very different experience thanwhat I'm having, and I'm
wondering if that's okay withyou, if it's okay with you that
you're not cycling as much asI'm cycling.
Kelly Butler (10:32):
For sure, you cycle a lot.
Tom Butler (10:39):
I wish people could see your face.
Kelly Butler (10:40):
You spend so much time on the bike.
I don't have that much time.
I have to be more focused on myfitness goals.
I don't have that much time toreach my fitness goals, and so
I'm totally okay not spendingthat much time on the bike.
Tom Butler (10:54):
And that's going to be something that we just have
to manage moving forward.
When we talk about being acycling family, there's a
mismatch there.
That's okay that you aren'tgoing to be out and doing
everything that I'm doing on thebicycle.
You're not going to be takingas many trips and that's going
(11:17):
to show up in your fitness levelon the bike.
You're not pushing yourself tobe a stronger cyclist all the
time.
Kelly Butler (11:26):
No, I'm not.
I have an e-bike specificallybecause I can have fun with you,
regardless how fit I am on thebike per se.
But I am working on fitnessgoals in other ways.
I'd like to be able to takegood long hikes.
I'm working on my knees so thatI can go up and down hills
again.
I'm working on my knees so thatI can go up and down hills
again.
(11:46):
Those are my current goals.
I have to back off on quite abit right now because my knees
are acting up and I really wantto strengthen them and guard
them and build them up so that Ican do things, including riding
bikes, longer.
But riding a bike doesn'treally bother them, but I want
to be able to hike.
I'd like to go camping and goon hike as well as take a bike
(12:11):
ride.
So I want pretty broad fitnessabilities.
Tom Butler (12:15):
Yeah, I think that you want to be able to function
physically and challengeyourself physically.
Yeah, and there is an issuewith your knees.
That has been an issue sinceyou were 25.
Yeah, of knees, that isn'tideal, then that means that
you've got to spend some timespecifically that is dedicated
(12:53):
to fixing your knee problemsRight, or to at least try to
interrupt damage being done toyour knees.
Kelly Butler (12:59):
Well, I'm trying to repair it.
Well, yeah, well, I'm trying torepair and strengthen,
stabilize.
Tom Butler (13:04):
Are you specifically trying to prevent having knee
replacement surgery?
Kelly Butler (13:09):
Absolutely.
Tom Butler (13:09):
Yeah.
Kelly Butler (13:10):
It used to be for me a foregone conclusion that I
was just going to have kneesurgery, but I've totally
rejected that idea and I'mcommitted to not, and I think
I'm well on the way.
Tom Butler (13:20):
Now, the cool thing about cycling is the bike that
you have does not aggravate yourknee issues very much.
Is that correct?
Kelly Butler (13:33):
Yeah, very, very minimally.
Only if I go on really longrides can I feel a little bit,
and even then it's not bad.
Tom Butler (13:40):
And also that's a benefit with the pedal assist,
is that if you ever got in asituation, you could add more
assist.
Kelly Butler (13:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's safer to me than walkingright now.
Tom Butler (13:52):
honestly, To me, it's such a huge thing to have
pedal assist, because I can geta workout and feel comfortable
that you don't have tooverextend yourself to be riding
with me and for us to be acycling family.
(14:14):
I need that peace of mind.
Kelly Butler (14:17):
Yeah, you definitely do, and I do too, and
you know that's essential forus to enjoy and be able to do it
together.
It's just essential.
And I have to give up my prideand say, okay, I have e-assist,
fine, but I'm okay with thatbecause of what you just said.
(14:38):
You know we want to have funtogether.
I have other fitness goals andwe just want to make it as
peace-inducing as possible.
Tom Butler (14:47):
If it wasn't for your knees, then you might be
able to spend more time.
You have a fitness program thatis very specialized to your
needs and it does take time.
It does take time and if itwasn't for that, then you might
(15:07):
be able to take more time andmaybe try to build up your
strength on a bicycle andchallenge yourself on a bicycle.
And you know the whole thingthat you talk about.
Your pride is that you reallywant to see how well you could
do without the pedal assist.
Kelly Butler (15:25):
I do.
I want to see if I could keepup with you at all.
Tom Butler (15:27):
Yeah, and so that's to me.
You know, one of thosefunctions of you can't do
everything.
Kelly Butler (15:36):
Right.
Tom Butler (15:37):
And you're not going to be a cyclist.
Kelly Butler (15:39):
Right.
Tom Butler (15:40):
You're going to be part of a cycling family and
then we found a bicycle that cansupport you participating, but
you're never going to be intocycling like I'm into cycling.
Kelly Butler (15:49):
I'm not, and part of that is just what I perceive
as time commitment to get thefitness goals met on a bike, and
it might be a false impression,but my impression is that I can
achieve a level of fitnesswhere a bike is part of that but
it's not.
I can do it in a more compacttime in other ways and achieve
the fitness that I want.
Tom Butler (16:10):
Is it fair to say for both of us to admit that you
don't like cycling as much as Ido?
Kelly Butler (16:17):
Yeah, you love it, so I enjoy it.
It's really fun, but you loveit.
Tom Butler (16:24):
So there's an element of if I go out for three
hours on a ride, I'm reallyenjoying it.
I'm not doing that activity tobe fit.
Kelly Butler (16:34):
Right, yes.
Tom Butler (16:36):
I don't need three hours to be fit.
I could spend far less time onthe bicycle.
It was just about being fit.
Kelly Butler (16:44):
Okay.
Tom Butler (16:48):
What are you thinking?
Kelly Butler (16:51):
Well, I've not perceived that from you.
That's not the way I've seen itpresented.
I'm just reading it wrong maybe.
Tom Butler (16:59):
So you feel I've communicated with you that I
need every minute that I'm onthe bike in order to be fit?
Yeah, that's interesting.
Let me kind of break it down abit.
Kelly Butler (17:08):
Break it baby.
Tom Butler (17:10):
So this is a little bit of a marital counseling
session.
Kelly Butler (17:14):
Oh, no but no, just communicating.
Tom Butler (17:19):
Oh yes, not that we're in distress or anything,
we're just open, communicating.
There are different things thatneed to happen in order for me
to be the cyclist I want to be.
One of those is that, you know,I want to get stronger.
I want to have more stamina andbe stronger.
I can do that in less time thanI spend on the bike now.
(17:41):
But another layer of that isthat I want to do long rides and
, from all kinds of perspectives, I need to do long rides,
practice long rides if I'm goingto do like an event with other
people, and so I need tounderstand the energy
(18:03):
utilization it takes me to do100 miles and I need to know how
fast I can go and keep it upfor 100 miles.
So there's layers there.
And then, on top of that, thereis the emotional health impact
of being out cycling, and I feellike unplugging and going out
(18:28):
for a three-hour ride.
That's really beneficial to me.
Kelly Butler (18:34):
Yeah, I agree.
Tom Butler (18:35):
So while I'm fully admitting that I could spend
less time a week on the bike andstill be fit, there's a lot of
things about being a cyclistthat I don't think come about.
You know, just for example, dothe bike shorts I have and the
(18:56):
seat that I have?
Are they sustainable for eighthours on the bike?
You know, I'm only going tofind that out by spending eight
hours on the bike.
Kelly Butler (19:08):
Yeah, but you've done that multiple times, so I'm
not sure what you're sayingabout that.
Tom Butler (19:12):
I think there's still things to learn about what
is comfortable and what isn'tcomfortable for me, so I don't
see even admitting that I coulddo less cycling.
I don't think I'm going to getthe benefits that I want from
cycling, as far as my health areconcerned, by cutting back on
(19:33):
time, because there's justmultifaceted what keeps me
cycling.
Kelly Butler (19:39):
So you do need the time on the bike, okay, so
again, this is where you do needthe time on the bike, Okay, so
again, this is where it's acouple.
Tom Butler (19:50):
We're communicating.
You're helping yes, I need, butyou can't evaluate it just from
like my fit.
Do you see what I'm saying?
I can't justify that I needthat much time on the bike by
just my fit.
Do you see what I'm saying?
I can't justify that I needthat much time on the bike by
just being fit.
What I'm asking you to do is tosee fitness broader than just
(20:15):
are my muscles strong?
Am I burning calories?
Things like that.
Kelly Butler (20:20):
Yeah, I get that.
Tom Butler (20:21):
And I've seen you as totally open to that, obviously
Okay.
So we've established thatyou're not gonna be riding like
I get that and I've seen you astotally open to that.
Yeah, obviously Okay.
So we've established thatyou're not going to be riding
like I'm riding.
You're not going to be puttingas much time on the bike as I'm
putting on the bike.
One of the things that I'mgoing to do is I'm going to
(20:41):
participate in more organizedevents than I think you're going
to participate in.
Do you want us to be movingtowards a place where any event
that I'm doing you're going toparticipate in?
Do you want us to be movingtowards a place where any event
that I'm doing, you're going todo it with me, or are you okay
with the place that I'm going togo do events and be gone for
the day at event without you?
Kelly Butler (20:59):
No, I'm okay with that.
Tom Butler (21:01):
Okay, it makes it tougher if McKenna and Gary and
I all three are doing an eventand you're kind of left alone to
provide support.
Kelly Butler (21:12):
Mm-hmm, but I only see that as the STP.
So far, the only thing that Ihave written for support well,
not quite but primarily is theSTP, and I was planning to write
the STP this year, but otherlife events and responsibilities
is precluding that this year.
Tom Butler (21:30):
Well, let's talk about that more in a little bit,
because I want to introduceanother aspect into that
decision about doing the STP.
But you're not planning in theSTP case means that you're in
the car, you know by yourselfdriving the things.
(21:53):
That's not fantastic.
Kelly Butler (21:57):
No, it's not fantastic, but at this point in
my life there are other thingsthat I have a hard time finding
time to do, and so it's not likeit's wasted time.
I can utilize the time.
So it's not ideal and I wouldlike to move out of this period
before too long, but I'm okaybeing alone, I mean it's just.
You're right, it's not ideal,but it's manageable, it's doable
(22:19):
.
I have things I need to do andI can do it, and it's all right.
Tom Butler (22:23):
We need to find you a support buddy.
Kelly Butler (22:26):
Support buddy yeah .
Tom Butler (22:28):
So we need to find you someone whose husband is
doing the STP and she's doingsupport.
So we're putting a call outthere for a support group.
Kelly Butler (22:43):
Actually, currently I plan on doing some
continuing education, so no,nobody's going to enjoy that
with me.
So, I've got boring things todo that I need to do by myself.
Maybe next year we'll seeyou're gonna.
Tom Butler (22:58):
You're.
You've got your time booked up,yes, with stuff.
Yeah, hopefully that reallyworks for you, like you got an
ipad or whatever and you're justable to knock out a bunch of
stuff over two days.
One of the factors in all ofthis kind of being a cycling
family and what you participatein, in my opinion, is sharing
(23:24):
the road with cars.
I think that at this point,we're only looking for
experiences where you're notsharing the road with cars.
I think one of the things thatwas enjoyable about the camping
trip that we did and the bikeride that we did was that we
(23:47):
were on a trail and we were notinterfacing with cars.
Basically that whole ride.
Kelly Butler (23:54):
Sure absolutely.
Tom Butler (23:56):
Is there a way for you to communicate how it feels
for you to be on the road withcars right now?
Kelly Butler (24:04):
Well, it's not a horrible thing.
It's just not my idea of areally fun ride and it's not,
like you know, I can't have anytime on the road.
It's just that I just much moreenjoy being away from people
and cars and having to worryabout my line and keeping up and
(24:26):
not, and it just complicates itand just kind of takes some of
the enjoyment out of it fromsafety reasons and congestion
reasons.
Tom Butler (24:38):
The safety aspect of it.
Do you have a real feeling offear when you're on the road
that something could happen withan interaction with a car?
Kelly Butler (24:49):
I'm not riding with fear.
Something could happen with aninteraction with a car.
I'm not riding with fear.
I have more thoughts of fearafterwards than during or even
before.
I mean, it's not like I worryabout it, it's not like I'm
stressing about it, and when I'mriding it's just hey, I'm
riding and it's going to be okayand we're going to be fine.
But afterwards I think back onit, it's like, eh, that's not
(25:09):
ideal.
Tom Butler (25:10):
From a safety perspective.
Kelly Butler (25:12):
I mean, there's other things that I don't like
about it, but from a safetyperspective, it's not like I'm
trembling or just likeconstantly thinking about it.
It's just you're thinking abouthow to be safe but I'm not like
, oh no, I'm going to get hit.
Tom Butler (25:26):
When a car passes you, do you feel that sense of
vulnerability sometimes at thosepoints?
Kelly Butler (25:35):
I don't know.
I feel like an imposition.
I feel like I'm annoying thecars.
Tom Butler (25:41):
Well, that's an interesting thought.
So if you felt like drivers ofcars were looking at bicycles
and saying, hey, they belonghere too.
You have every right to theroad.
I'm glad you're out gettinghealthy you know a whole bunch
of positive thoughts as they'recoming up on you then that might
change the experience of beingon the road for you.
Kelly Butler (26:04):
Yeah, yeah, it would.
Tom Butler (26:06):
But instead, what do you think they're thinking?
Kelly Butler (26:09):
I'm slowing them down.
You know you shouldn't be outhere.
This is for cars and you'reannoying.
You're an imposition.
Tom Butler (26:17):
Yeah, I think that's true.
I think there's a percentage ofdrivers that are like bikes
don't belong on roads that carsdrive on, and I think that's a
factor.
And again, cycling together ifyou and I are cycling together,
I think if we eliminate that, wego a long way to making our
(26:42):
cycling adventures together moreenjoyable.
How are you planning oneliminating that by not sharing
a road with cars?
Kelly Butler (26:48):
Oh, I see, yeah, definitely.
Tom Butler (26:50):
So I think that's right now where we're at.
I think there would be someexceptions to that, you know,
but I think, for the most part,as we're planning out, there's
ways for us to avoid sharingroad with cars, and that's what
we did on this trip that we tookto the Olympic Discovery Trail
road with cars, and that's whatwe did on this trip that we took
(27:12):
to the Olympic Discovery Trail.
Kelly Butler (27:16):
Yeah, so is there a shortage of places like that
to ride?
It seems like the group ridesdon't frequently do that.
They seem to be road rides mostof the time.
Tom Butler (27:19):
I think there's a couple elements to that.
Probably the biggest thing isthat you know if we're out on a
trail as a couple cyclists, oryou know even if we've got a
group of five or six peoplecycling together on a trail as a
couple cyclists, or you knoweven if we've got a group of
five or six people cyclingtogether on a trail, then that's
not disrupting the trail.
(27:40):
But if you dump hundreds ofpeople on a trail, then it's
really disruptive to the trailbecause the trail is a multi-use
trail.
It's not a cycling trail, it'sa multi-use trail and so dumping
, you know, hundreds of peopleor thousands of people on a
trail, it really changes thedynamics of the trail.
So I think that that's onereason that organized rides will
(28:07):
be on roads.
I think another reason is thatthey're not very connected.
You know like to go fromSeattle to Portland all on
trails is just not possible, soyou're going to be on roads.
And then I think another factoris, for the most part, if
(28:29):
you're an experienced cyclistand you're on a road like a
backcountry road that doesn'thave much traffic at all there's
plenty of opportunities forcars to pass and give a wide
distance, then I think thatriding on those roads are okay.
Kelly Butler (28:53):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (28:54):
So I think ride organizers really look for those
roads as part of the route,yeah, and see that is pretty
good.
But again for us, for now, Ithink that it's better that we
just find ways to avoid cars.
Kelly Butler (29:09):
For the most part, yeah.
Tom Butler (29:11):
So here's a question that you might have a hard time
answering.
Okay, okay.
How many cycling trips is theright amount to do a year for
you?
Kelly Butler (29:25):
Yeah, you're right , who knows?
Tom Butler (29:26):
So here's one aspect of this my cycling season is a
12-month season.
Kelly Butler (29:33):
your cycling season season is not a 12-month
season well, you've been on yourtrainer all winter long, so
don't give me are you?
Tom Butler (29:50):
okay?
Let's be realistic.
Okay, if it's miserablymiserable weather right out
there, I do appreciate thetrainer I've been appreciating
it a little too much.
Kelly Butler (30:03):
I'm seeing you on it when it's beautiful and sunny
outside and I'm like, okay,buddy, you're missing the fresh
air.
You're not doing.
This is not the way I think youreally want it okay.
Tom Butler (30:18):
So there is this misinterpretation of why I'm on
the bike.
So there's other reasons thatI'm on the trainer in the house,
then it's bad weather outside,so I don't know that.
That's fair, believe me it'snot totally fair but I would.
There are times that I'm on thetrainer, that I'm looking
outside.
(30:39):
It's beautiful and I wish withall my heart that I could be out
there.
You know, part of the problemis that it does take time to go
out on the road and I don'treally enjoy going for 10 miles
out on the road.
You know, if I'm going to goout on the road I like to go for
(30:59):
like 25 miles.
So if I'm just going to do 10miles to burn off breakfast, I
do have a tendency to jump onthe trainer.
Yeah, but your concern aboutthe trainer has been noted and
it doesn't seem near as fun.
Kelly Butler (31:19):
It's like you like to ride outside, it just
doesn't seem.
I'm just feeling sad for yourbody.
Tom Butler (31:26):
I'm telling you it's absolutely not as fun.
It feels like your time justslows down when you're on a trip
.
Yeah, when you go outside onthe bike, time speeds up.
But yeah, so it absolutely so.
I'm not.
I'm not like cheating, okay,but it is convenient and you
(31:48):
know there are some aspects ofit that do make it attractive.
But I'm noting that you think Ineed to get outside more.
Kelly Butler (31:58):
It's your journey.
Well, okay.
So you were saying I'm not a12-month bicyclist.
Where were you going with that?
What were you trying to get to?
Tom Butler (32:07):
I think it's fair.
I think it's a fair comment.
Kelly Butler (32:10):
That I'm not a 12 month bicyclist.
Tom Butler (32:12):
Yes.
Kelly Butler (32:12):
Absolutely Okay.
Tom Butler (32:14):
So let's say that you're a four month cyclist.
Are you comfortable with sayingyou're a four month cyclist?
Kelly Butler (32:27):
Sure.
Tom Butler (32:28):
Did you want to extend that the five months or
do you think four is pretty good?
Kelly Butler (32:33):
What's that?
April, may, june, july, mayJune, july, august, four or five
.
Tom Butler (32:38):
Yeah.
So looking at our area, I thinkabout this time of year we're
in mid-May about this time ofyear, I think it starts getting
nice.
Kelly Butler (32:50):
Well, we've had for the last month, I'd say,
time so we could go.
Tom Butler (32:54):
Yeah, but reliably.
Yeah, I think reliably aboutmid-May it starts getting nice.
So that would be June, July,August, September would be four
months.
Kelly Butler (33:08):
So six months.
Then we went camping andcycling in April.
Tom Butler (33:12):
Yeah, so I'm saying five months reliably.
Kelly Butler (33:18):
Okay.
Tom Butler (33:19):
I think if we're going to plan like cycling
adventures, then I think we'relooking at five months.
Oh, I see.
Kelly Butler (33:27):
I was just thinking hopping on the bike and
going, but I wasn't thinkingplanned adventures.
Tom Butler (33:31):
Yeah.
So I think, yeah, I think if wesee a nice day, let's jump on
the bike and go.
I'm over that.
But to plan out, you know, atrip or something, I think five
months.
Kelly Butler (33:40):
Okay, here's a question about a cycling family.
Does that mean we don't doanything else, active on any
trips?
Tom Butler (33:50):
What I would say to that is basically yes.
Kelly Butler (33:54):
No, I say no.
Tom Butler (33:57):
So the thing is that this conversation we're having
about how many trips you can do,it's a serious conversation,
because it's like you're busy.
You've got more on your platenow because we're taking care of
your mother more, and so wedon't have many times that we
(34:19):
can go out and do things now.
So if we eliminate somethingyou know from a cycling trip,
then that takes one of only afew things away.
So I would like to focus oncycling.
(34:40):
The question is, what are younot getting by cycling?
Kelly Butler (34:44):
Variety.
Tom Butler (34:45):
What variety would you want?
Kelly Butler (34:49):
Hiking and jet skiing.
Tom Butler (34:50):
Okay, so these are two different topics that I want
to cover both of them.
Oh, no One.
Hiking Okay, your knees can'ttake hiking.
Kelly Butler (35:05):
I can't do it right now.
Tom Butler (35:06):
Yeah, so we're not considering hiking right now.
No, now, yeah, so we're not.
We're not considering hikingright now.
No, you know, hopefully we canconsider that future, but let's
have that discussion in thefuture.
I would like to do abackpacking trip as a family
every year, but right now yourknees aren't in a condition for
us to consider that, so weshould consider that okay, now
(35:29):
cycling is enough.
Kelly Butler (35:31):
Okay, okay now wait, wait, wait, jet skiing
okay the way I ride it's likeit's active this comes down.
Tom Butler (35:45):
Listeners of this podcast, I'm saying this for
your benefit.
This comes down to a differencewhen it comes to recreation for
you and me, because we're nottalking to sit down jet ski,
we're talking to stand up jetski.
I understand what you're talkingabout.
You're talking about you like ajet ski, that you're doing a
whole lot of manipulation andeverything about and having a
(36:09):
lot of fun going fast, and youwant to be doing a lot of sharp
turns, a lot of, you know,throwing the jet ski around,
which you did a lot when you'reyounger.
This is part of what energizesyou.
If we went back in time, youwere way more likely to become a
motorcycle racer, like a dirtbike racer, than you were a
(36:34):
cyclist.
You like motorized things, youlike going fast, all that stuff.
However, I see two big issueswith that what, what?
Kelly Butler (36:49):
I'm not 25 anymore .
Tom Butler (36:54):
Well, one is that we don't have an abundance of time
, and so I really feel like weneed to be active when we're
recreating, and you cannot beactive on a jet ski.
Kelly Butler (37:08):
Those are fighting words.
Tom Butler (37:10):
I know that you have a hard time accepting this.
I'm here to help you acceptthis.
Kelly Butler (37:17):
Now we shouldn't even be talking about it,
because I haven't jet skied in along time and we're not going
to do much of it, but it's justan example of something that is
fun to do outside and for me, isactive.
Tom Butler (37:28):
For you, it was active.
Uh-huh, you want to step on ajet ski.
You know a stand-up jet ski andyou want to abuse that jet ski
and at the same time, you'reabusing your body and you're
just not in a place where youcan do that right now.
Kelly Butler (37:49):
All right, I feel like people don't need to hear
me whine about wanting to testgame process.
Tom Butler (37:56):
I think people do want to hear you process this.
I wish I could do a show ofhands.
Who wants to hear Kelly processthis?
But if you get to the pointwhere you have put in a lot of
work and you've built yourselfup to the point where you can
thrash a jet ski and not hurtyourself, I'd be for that.
(38:19):
But you're just not there.
I mean, I've seen you ride ajet ski, I know what you're
doing to the jet ski and I knowwhat the forces you're exerting
is doing to your body and you'rejust not there.
You're gonna pull somethingokay, what's the benchmark?
Kelly Butler (38:35):
I get there.
Tom Butler (38:36):
I don't know.
We can figure that out.
We can do some work on that tosee how we would know that, as
you're thrashing the jet ski,that your body is safe.
We can do that work okay, butfor now I think a jet ski, as
fun as it sounds, it's somethingthat's not gonna be that
(38:57):
helpful.
But the truth of the matter is,in being a cycling family, you
know, we're not being like amotorcycle family right and I.
I think I personally have tohave that because I need to stay
strong, I need to be active.
When we're doing recreation, Ineed to be active.
Kelly Butler (39:17):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (39:18):
I like motorcycles I used to own a motorcycle but I
need to be active.
I need to be flexing muscleswhen I'm doing recreation.
There's another element of thisthat I think is super relevant.
One thing that I think aboutyou riding jet skis is I think
about your shoulders.
Kelly Butler (39:36):
You don't need to go there.
It's going to be longer.
Before you let me ride one, solet's not go there.
Tom Butler (39:40):
No, we're going there.
You think that was going toshut it down.
Kelly Butler (39:48):
I'm working on it though.
Tom Butler (39:50):
Well, you are and I'm super proud of you and what
you're doing.
You're doing some awesome stuff, but here's where it factors in
.
There was a hope that we hadthat we could.
Part of the desire to be offthe road is that we could do
gravel riding, and I think westill have that hope.
(40:12):
That's something that you stillsee as attractive, right?
Kelly Butler (40:15):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (40:17):
And you experienced it when we did the Port Townsend
tour that we did a three-daytour, we experienced some dirt
trails and they were reallypacked down.
It was really smooth, packeddown gravel trail.
You know it was more dirtpacked dirt than like big uh
(40:40):
rocks that you might find onsome gravel trail.
But super enjoyed that ride.
There's beautiful scenery alongthe coast and no cars and that
was a really enjoyableexperience and so we're seeking
out to have more of a gravelexperience.
Kelly Butler (41:00):
So for me some of the most enjoyable bike riding
that we've had was we were outat Port Townsend on the Larry
Scott Trail on kind of a packeddown gravel dirt trails, and
there was something about thatthat was just really fun and
really enjoyable.
I don't know all the elementsof that.
I do think that it was is morean element of you're surrounded
(41:22):
by nature rather than surroundedby cars and cement and rails
and side rails and all that kindof stuff.
It was just really fun ridingthrough trees.
There's something about thatthat just really resonates with
me and it was really fun.
So I guess that's why we've beenconsidering a gravel bike, you
know, so we can do more of that.
(41:42):
I'm trying to figure out, Imean, what we did there was
actually completely fine on mycruise bike, but thinking that
if we're going to pursue more ofthat then we're not going to
find such beautifully packeddown easy to ride trails and
there'd be more of a need for agravel bike.
So we've been looking at that.
(42:02):
But that at this point seems tome maybe is still a little bit
hard for my shoulders.
Tom Butler (42:07):
One of the factors here is that we just don't know
how much of that perfect trailpacked down dirt, really small
gravel, that we would findaround.
You know, hopefully we can finda lot of that, but I think it's
not highly likely.
I don't know, I just don't know,but we need to get out and
(42:31):
explore which you know.
It's part of what we're goingto do.
But the truth of the matter is,even though the cruise bike is
really good for you, you are notable to absorb bumps with your
legs and arms like you would ona traditional bike Right, and so
(42:53):
the roughness of the road getstransported into your body on
the cruise bike.
And so on the cruise bike youcurrently have.
Kelly Butler (43:07):
Yeah, on my current cruise bike the S40.
Tom Butler (43:09):
Which is an S40.
So we decided that maybe wecould find a mountain bike with
suspension that you'd be able touse on gravel, and we could
find a bike that would fit youand everything and it'd be okay.
So we set out to do that.
How would you describe what welearned from our attempt to do
(43:33):
that?
Kelly Butler (43:35):
Well, I would describe it as bittersweet,
because it's really fun ridingthe bike, but I was on the bike
for a very short time and myshoulders my left shoulder in
particular was not happy.
Tom Butler (43:46):
Yeah, so in addition to your knees, then you do have
some shoulder issues.
Kelly Butler (43:50):
Yes.
Tom Butler (43:51):
And our hope would be that you could strengthen
them in a way that it wouldn'tbe an issue on a bike.
But we're just not going to beable.
You know, for this year we'rejust not going to be able to
have that as an option.
Maybe down the road, but youwere on the bike for maybe 20
minutes, 25 minutes.
Kelly Butler (44:09):
At the most.
Tom Butler (44:10):
But even in that amount of time, then your
shoulders aren't in a placewhere you can have that position
.
Kelly Butler (44:18):
Yeah, my left shoulder, which is the one
that's impacted by my work themost.
You can have that position.
Yeah, my left shoulder, whichis the one that's impacted by my
work the most you know yeah 30years of my work has impacted
that.
Tom Butler (44:25):
Yeah and it was enough that it doesn't feel like
a bike fit is going to fix that, or it's going to fix that.
Yeah, when you said bittersweet, you loved that bike, right?
Yeah, yeah, I did, and that wasa Trek Marlin Plus 8, if
anybody's curious, and it's likeif there was any bike out there
(44:48):
that you would be attracted to.
I think that bike was like areally good bike for you.
Kelly Butler (44:54):
Well, it's the only one I tried, but I did love
it.
Tom Butler (44:56):
We've tried other bikes and you know you had a
mountain bike in the past, whichwas fine at the time, yeah.
The features and everything onthis bike.
There were just a lot of reallygood features.
Kelly Butler (45:08):
Yeah, there were fun features.
Tom Butler (45:10):
And to go in different directions than that
Marlin Plus 8, then it would begetting into more aggressive of
a mountain bike and that's notgoing to be right for you.
Or if we went the otherdirection, it would be more of a
hybrid kind of a road bike andI just don't think that's as
aggressive from a shockabsorption perspective and
(45:32):
everything that we were lookingfor.
So I think your experience withthat bike means for now, a
traditional bike isn't an option.
Kelly Butler (45:40):
Right Boo.
Tom Butler (45:42):
Boo-hoo, but that doesn't mean that a new bike
isn't on the horizon for you.
Maybe, we should talk aboutwhat the dynamics are around you
getting a new bike.
For now, you're going to staywith cruise bike.
Kelly Butler (46:01):
Right.
Tom Butler (46:02):
Yes, you've appreciated your cruise bike, I
believe.
Kelly Butler (46:05):
I have.
I've loved it.
I really have I mean thecomfort for with my body
challenges with knees, wristsand shoulders, it's been amazing
.
It's just handled those issuescompletely.
It is fun to ride.
And the e-assist I have to say,as much as I sometimes don't
(46:27):
like the thought of it, thee-assist has been really fun and
really useful and so it's justbeen a great bike.
I don't want to get rid of itat all.
Tom Butler (46:38):
I think one of the biggest things is that you
hadn't been on a bike for months, and then we went on this trip.
We did 20 miles, which is anincredibly long way, but still
it was enough, and then youdidn't have any pain.
Kelly Butler (46:52):
Zero.
Tom Butler (46:54):
And so the position of the cruise bike right now
makes cycling possible for you.
Kelly Butler (47:00):
Right, yeah, absolutely.
Tom Butler (47:02):
But the problem is again if we were going to go on
some rougher roads then all thebumps and everything in the road
would transfer to your body.
Kelly Butler (47:11):
We've tried it and it's not fun.
Yeah, it's not fun.
Tom Butler (47:15):
But there is another option.
Kelly Butler (47:16):
Yeah, possibly.
Tom Butler (47:18):
So talk about that option.
Kelly Butler (47:19):
But there is another option, yeah, possibly,
so talk about that option.
Well, a cruise bike has anothermodel called the Q45 that has
suspension and is a little bitmore upright, so we can give it
a try.
I mean, I can go test ride it.
I don't know, it's an option,it's a possibility.
Tom Butler (47:35):
Are there things about the Q45 that you don't
like?
Kelly Butler (47:41):
I don't like how it looks, as much I don't know
Well what is about the look thatyou don't like?
I don't know, just the framedoesn't look as smooth, I don't
know.
Tom Butler (47:53):
Oh, interesting, isn't that funny.
It looks a little more clunky.
Kelly Butler (47:56):
Yeah, yeah, and my understanding when we were
looking at which one to buy.
I mean, it wouldn't be as goodfor road biking when we're doing
yeah.
Tom Butler (48:06):
I don't know.
I think you know we got when wegot the S40, so just if you're
(48:26):
curious about cruise bike and asa recumbent option, you should
go to cruisebikecomC-R-U-Z-B-I-K-Ecom and you can
see everything there.
But they have a V20, which istheir most aerodynamic bike and
it's really the bike that peoplethat want to use them for
racing get.
And then they have the S40 thatKelly currently has and that's
you're not laid back as far.
So the 20 and the 40 kind ofrelate to how far you lean back,
(48:49):
and then the Q45 is up a littlemore.
Kelly Butler (48:54):
But also but it's also variable.
Tom Butler (48:56):
Yeah, it has some adjustment, yeah, and so if we
knew then what we know now, Ithink we probably would have
gone with the Q45.
Kelly Butler (49:04):
Yeah, very possibly yeah.
Tom Butler (49:06):
And so this aspect of having some suspension.
The seat is separated from theframe by a shock absorber.
By a shock absorber, theability to have that is, I think
, going to help unlock somethings for us cycling together?
Kelly Butler (49:27):
Yeah, but are those things things that you're
interested in too?
Are you interested in moremountain biking?
Gravel riding Are youinterested in that too?
Tom Butler (49:36):
Here's what I think gravel riding opens up One I do
think that there's a lot ofplaces that you can go and feel
like you're out, away frompeople, you know, when you're
gravel riding, and I thinkthat's really attractive to me.
I'm also really interested indoing some gravel riding,
bikepacking trips Reallyinterested in that, and so I
(50:00):
want to be able to do that.
But I think, for you again, I'mgoing to enjoy the cycling no
matter what, but for you, Ithink, your enjoyment when we
were riding the Larry ScottTrail that really should be
taken in account when we'replanning trips together to find
(50:21):
things that you really enjoydoing on the bike, and I think
gravel riding would definitelybe one of those things.
I think the thing that youwould have to get over is how
upright you look when you're ona Q45.
Kelly Butler (50:35):
Maybe, possibly I might like it better, I don't
know.
Tom Butler (50:38):
To me it is definitely inefficient.
The position that you're in isreally inefficient, and if
you've got a headwind, you'recatching a lot of wind.
Just being up a little bit more, you're catching a lot of wind,
and so to me the q45 is not asattractive because of the
(51:07):
position that you're in fromthat perspective.
But when you've got pedalassist, then that takes that
away.
Don't come with motors, so wewould definitely have to get a
motor fitted to that bike again.
That does mean something.
Kelly Butler (51:20):
What.
Tom Butler (51:21):
What do you think it means?
Kelly Butler (51:22):
I have to give up my S40?
.
Tom Butler (51:25):
Well, that's not necessarily what it means, but
you know the investment that wemade in the S40.
Yes, and putting a motor on itpretty much doubles the cost.
So there's a question of do yougive up the S40?
Do you keep the S40?
(51:46):
And we go ahead and put out thedollars to get a Q45 and have a
motor put on it.
That's a decision that's goingto have to be made.
Kelly Butler (51:56):
Yep.
Tom Butler (52:04):
Well, am I worth it, Kelly?
No, the answer to that question.
You're absolutely worth it Beable to go on cycling trips with
you.
It's just fantastic.
I love it.
Kelly Butler (52:11):
I really don't want to give up my S40.
Tom Butler (52:13):
I know that you don't, and I think there are
ways to do this where you don'thave to give up your S40.
Maybe give up the electricassist on the S40 and we put
that motor on the Q45.
I don't know, but I definitelydon't think you should give up
the S40 until you're ready togive up the S40.
How's that?
Kelly Butler (52:32):
Okay, deal.
Tom Butler (52:33):
We don't know for sure that the Q45 is going to
solve the problem, but we aregoing to do a test drive of it
and uh, and hopefully you know,we find that the, the shock
takes a lot of the, the bumpsout of the road, but we don't
know.
And there's one other issue tooone of the biggest advantages
(52:54):
with the s40 is that you're ableto rest your neck.
Kelly Butler (52:57):
I don don't think that's going to be a problem on
the Q45.
You don't think?
Tom Butler (53:05):
so no, okay, you're upright more so you don't really
need support for it?
Kelly Butler (53:07):
I don't think, but if they don't have any support?
Tom Butler (53:09):
I don't know.
Yeah, we'll see.
Okay, so two things that we'regoing to need to figure out, and
we know a place that has a Q45that we can go test ride it.
Okay, I want to circle back tosomething that I don't think
that we actually finalized, thatis, given these parameters, we
can do gravel riding.
We've got you on a Q45 and itworks, and we can do gravel
(53:33):
riding.
You feel like you're out innature.
More you're away from cars,more there's there's just a lot
of things that make it enjoyablefor you.
How many cycling trips togetherare we going to do in five
months?
Kelly Butler (53:51):
What does a trip consist of?
Is it all overnight?
Tom Butler (53:53):
I think it's overnight.
I think we drive someplace, wespend the night, we go for a
ride the next day and we comehome.
You know, we drive someplace.
New experience, someplace new.
Kelly Butler (54:06):
Three.
Tom Butler (54:06):
Three.
I think that's fair.
I think one a month is just toomuch, yeah, so Currently, okay,
I like that a lot, and we needto figure out a way to make
those trips attractive to ourkids too, so we can do family
vacations together, becausethat's really fun.
Kelly Butler (54:25):
Or if we can't entice the kids, then there's an
invitation out there for otherpeople to join us.
Tom Butler (54:31):
I like that a lot.
We haven't developed a wholegroup of cycling friends, but we
really should work on doingthat.
Yeah, one more subject to talkabout quickly, and that's my
diet.
What is your thoughts?
I've made this change and youwere a you're a large part of
why I made this change.
What is your evaluation at thispoint of the benefit of making
(54:57):
this change?
Kelly Butler (54:58):
Well, I see it as very promising from what we've
seen, very promising, and thebenefit of getting a much higher
level of nutrition inconsistently has long lasting
implications, not just bloodsugar control but from overall
wellness.
So I see it as very promising.
Tom Butler (55:15):
So that was one of the reasons you were attracted
to this thing, because you feltthere was more diversity as far
as nutrition is concerned.
Kelly Butler (55:22):
Yeah, More nutritional density by far.
Tom Butler (55:25):
Okay, okay, how are you feeling at this point about
my compliance?
Kelly Butler (55:30):
You really want me to answer that.
Tom Butler (55:34):
I think it's good to be open.
It's part of the journey to beopen.
Kelly Butler (55:43):
It's part of the journey, well, as they say
there's.
It's not a straight line from ato b, from the bottom to the
top of the journey, but so youhad some good start and you've
blown it big time and, I think,sabotage your progress.
But it is what it is and I'mI'm just trying to back off and
let you do it your way and Ihope it works out in the end.
I love how you snuck insabotage Well, I didn't sneak it
(56:10):
in, I railroaded it in.
I mean, in your mind there's apossibility that I'm sabotaging
because I don't want to eat thisway.
No, you were sabotaging yourprogress, not sabotaging the
Well.
I don't think your intention isto sabotage the program.
If that's the case, then I'mreally going to be sad.
(56:32):
But I was just talking about Ithink you put a big dent in your
progress and made the journeyharder for yourself.
Tom Butler (56:42):
Okay, I appreciate your support in this change.
It takes a lot more cooking,and I've appreciated your
willingness to help with that.
I've not embraced this thing.
I do like some things that I'veseen, but there's part of it
that I have problems with too.
For now I'm making a commitmentto you that I'm going to stick
(57:03):
with this program, you know, andsee it through for the six
weeks.
Kelly Butler (57:09):
Six months.
Tom Butler (57:10):
Well, I'm going to see it through for the six weeks
.
The six weeks is the insulinreset.
Kelly Butler (57:17):
Are you starting over then?
Tom Butler (57:18):
I don't think it's that specific.
I think that I have had somebumps, but I think that that's
part of the progress.
As you said, they expect that.
So I think at the end of sixweeks then I'm going to have
enough data to really evaluatethis program.
Kelly Butler (57:34):
Okay, if you stick with it for the rest of the six
weeks, cool.
Tom Butler (57:38):
Awesome.
I will do my best.
Kelly Butler (57:40):
I know I'm not expecting perfection, but close,
close to perfection.
Tom Butler (57:46):
You can see perfection from where I am is
the way that you want it to be.
All right, kelly Butler, thishas been awesome.
I love talking bikes with youand I love again this clarifying
what it means for us to be acycling family, and I think
there's these three cyclingtrips that we take in a year and
(58:10):
I hope those get more and moreadventurous as time goes on.
I'd like to see a bike andbarge trip in our future.
I'd love that, and maybe visitsome areas, take a week cycling
at some point, but that wereally focus on.
For us right now, being acycling family means three trips
a year.
(58:31):
Yeah, I like it Awesome.
Well, thank you, it's been fun,it's fun, I like having you here
.
So, talk to you later, okay,bye see you around.
I will see you around bye, bye.
(58:54):
I thought that was a reallyvaluable conversation.
As you can hear, kelly doesn'tget the same level of enjoyment
out of cycling as I do.
However, I think it is awesomethat we can still figure out how
to make cycling a big part ofour family time.
I love this aspect of thebicycle it's a device with a lot
of flexibility.
Because of Kelly's knees, wecouldn't be something like a
(59:15):
skiing family, but with cyclingwe have been able to find a bike
that accommodates herindividual physical challenges.
After we recorded, kellymentioned that she felt bad that
we talked a lot about jetskiing.
She felt like she was whiningabout it, but I felt like our
discussion illustrated animportant point.
Kelly and I enjoy differentactivities.
I don't believe that she's in agood place right now to thrash
(59:37):
her body on a jet ski, but alsoI need to be keeping my eye open
for things that we can do as acouple that feed her desire for
speed.
It will be our ability to craftactivities that we both enjoy
that will allow us to have asustainable active recreation
focus.
I hope that you are findingactive recreation activities
with your family, including somegreat cycling adventures.
(59:59):
Ideally, you are enjoying thefresh air, the sun on your skin
and some beautiful scenery.
And remember age is just a gearchange.
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