June 23, 2025 • 48 mins
Join host Tom Butler as he launches an new episode option for Cycling Over Sixty with the debut of "Alone for the Ride" (AFTR). In this immersive episode, Tom takes you on his first real gravel adventure along Washington's scenic Cascade Palouse Trail, blending real-time riding experiences with trail insights and spontaneous conversations with fellow cyclists along the way.
AFTR episodes are meant to put you on the trail with Tom, combining his personal journey tackling new terrain with practical information about the trail itself. You'll hear the crunch of gravel, feel the rhythm of the ride, and discover what makes the Cascade Palouse Trail a hidden gem for gravel enthusiasts.
Along the route, Tom chats with other riders he encounters, gathering their perspectives and stories that add depth to this virtual ride experience. Whether you're curious about gravel cycling, planning your own Cascade Palouse adventure, or simply want to experience the joy of discovery that comes with trying something new after sixty, this episode offers a unique window into both the physical and mental aspects of expanding your cycling horizons.
Links
Ted Radio Hour: Escaping the modern world and your noisy mind
SILCA Pro Tire Pressure Calculator: silca.cc/pages/pro-tire-pressure-calculator
Thanks for Joining Me!
Consider becoming a member of the Cycling Over Sixty Strava Club! www.strava.com/clubs/CyclingOverSixty
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Please send comments, questions and especially content suggestions to me at tom.butler@teleiomedia.com
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Show music is "Come On Out" by Dan Lebowitz. Find him here : lebomusic.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tom Butler (00:04):
This is the Cycling Over 60 podcast, season three,
episode 34,.
Along for the ride on theCascade Palouse Trail, and I'm
your host, tom Butler.
On Father's Day I scouted out abikepacking option.
(00:26):
We have the incredible PalustaCascade Trail only about an hour
from where I live.
I'm pretty sure I can find agood overnight backpacking trip
on the Cascade Palusta Trail.
I've mentioned in a fewepisodes that I would like to do
more bikepacking.
I started out the day with aplan to ride from Rattlesnake
Lake to Cold Creek Campground.
I started out the day with aplan to ride from Rattlesnake
Lake to Cold Creek Campground.
(00:46):
That route is 46 miles roundtrip on gravel with 2,511 feet
of elevation gain.
All the elevation gain is onthe way out.
I think the biggest grade is afew short sections of 5%.
For me, hitting this trailcould be a perfect way to get
more experience with bikepackingand just gravel riding in
general.
I didn't stay overnight on thistrip, but I was interested to
(01:10):
see how full Cold CreekCampground was and I got a few
surprises Before the ride.
I thought that Cold Creek wasaccessible by car on forest
roads, but I didn't really havean idea what it was like at all.
It was a great opportunity totry out this route because the
Roubaix is in the shop and I'mplanning to ride the FX3 on
(01:31):
gravel.
I didn't load camping gear onthe bike for this route.
For this route, I'm not reallyworried about how I will handle
having the bike loaded downbecause it's such a gentle route
.
One of the big questions I'mtrying to answer is if gravel
will be okay for Kelly to ride.
We both think that findinggravel trails would mean more
(01:52):
enjoyable bike experiences forKelly because it would get her
off the road, and my thinkingbefore the ride is that the
Cascade to Palouse Trail couldprovide an awesome option for us
.
Kelly's knees have limited usfrom doing backpacking.
We like car camping, butcamping in parks is difficult
and you have to reserve reallyfar in advance.
Also, the campgrounds tend tobe really crowded.
(02:14):
It would be awesome to findthat backpacking offers us an
option to get out in thewilderness without as many
crowds.
I thought that this route wouldprovide an opportunity to work
on developing a different kindof episode.
I want to occasionally do aalong for the ride or AFTR
episode.
The idea is that I can share myexperience with a route in a
(02:35):
different way.
If this works, aftr episodeswill have route info and include
challenges that I face andsolutions that I come up with,
and I'll also have conversationswith others that I meet on the
trail.
It can be a little weirdwalking up to somebody on a ride
with a microphone, but I findpeople are typically willing to
share a bit about their journey.
(02:55):
One thing is that I'm certainlymindful of not keeping people
too long to have a conversation,and that means conversations
are typically pretty short.
With a little work, I'm hopingthat AFTR episodes bring some
interesting variety to thepodcast.
I would love it if AFTRepisodes generated some
conversations on the CyclingOver 60 Strava Club.
(03:16):
Those comments could add a lotto my observations and
experiences.
So bear with me as I figure outhow to capture good sound
quality while I'm on a ride.
With that said, here we go.
It's just after 7 o'clock on aSunday morning and I am sitting
in a parking lot at RalsnakeLake.
(03:38):
I've been to this park beforeto enjoy the lake, but this is
the first time that I've everparked here to enjoy the Cascade
to Palouse Trail.
I'm sitting in a parking lotand beside me are some
bear-proof trash cans, so that'ssomething to think about.
It seems absolutely impossibleto see a bear on this trail and
(04:02):
I've never heard anybodyinteracting with bears on the
trail.
But we are in the wildernesshere.
I feel extremely fortunate.
I'm only 42 miles from home.
I'm very close to SnoqualmiePass right here Literally one of
the most beautiful places inthe United States.
It's cool this morning.
(04:24):
I will be starting out with ajacket, but I don't think I'll
be wearing it too long.
I do have shorts on.
I'm going to be on a trail andI expect to see some cyclists
that are riding acrossWashington or maybe even riding
across the US.
I expect that how I'm dressed,which is more like someone going
(04:51):
for a road ride, I expect thatI'll look different than people
who are out on a multi-day ormulti-week or multi-month trip.
My bike will definitely lookdifferent.
I will not be loaded down.
I do have my Trek FX3 and notmy Roubaix.
It has gravel tires on it.
(05:12):
I will have a small trunk.
I definitely will look like I'mnot out for more than a day
ride.
This is the first time in a longtime that I'll be out on a
route that I don't know anythingabout by myself.
Yeah, I don't know exactlywhere to stop for water.
I'm carrying enough water withme to go 30 miles.
(05:38):
I've got a 40 mile round trip,so I will want to get some water
somewhere along the way.
I've not heard anybody talkabout having to plan really well
for water on this section ofthe trail, so I don't think it's
going to be an issue.
I'm really looking forward tothis ride.
I am excited to get out thereand experience it.
(06:00):
I'm really crossing my fingersthat the trail is going to be
smooth enough that this would besomething that Kelly and I can
frequently do.
On the way up I was listening tothe TED Radio Hour and got a
really good prep for this ride.
On the way to the trailhead Ilistened to the June 13th
episode of the TED Radio Hourpodcast called Escaping the
(06:24):
Modern World and your Noisy Mind.
One of the segments featuredauthor Pico Ayer.
He talked about how he unplugsfrom the stimuli of his normal
life.
It really got me contemplatinghow writing for hours alone is a
way to cleanse my mind from allthe noise in the world.
I'll put a link for the podcastepisode in the show notes.
I definitely recommend taking alisten.
(06:47):
There's a tree in front of methat has a sign nailed to it
that says outbound, and I'mreally curious about that.
I don't know what that wouldrefer to, but I'm really curious
.
How many people start a tripacross the state of Washington
from here?
I wouldn't think you would.
You'd be missing a lot ofreally cool trail by starting
(07:12):
here.
But I'm not sure what you getwest from where I am.
It might be that this is wherethe gravel part starts and it's
west from here is mostly pavedtrail.
I don't think that's the case,but I am curious about how many
people start a trip acrossWashington, which again is the
(07:33):
Cascade Palouse Trail all gravel.
Well, that's enough of an intro.
It's time for me to get out, getthe bike loaded up and get out
of here.
Well, I had to wander around abit, but I think I finally made
it to where I've met the trail.
It was not really marked outabout how to actually get to the
(07:54):
Palooza Cascade Trail from theparking lot, so I actually made
some mistakes.
But I'm here.
It's quiet, the sun isdefinitely going to be coming
out.
I can see a lot of blue skiesoverhead, so ready for a
beautiful day.
I'm five miles in andabsolutely loving the atmosphere
(08:18):
.
I'm just out in the wildernessgoing through on a bike, not
loving how rough it is.
So I'm going to have to figureout something, maybe wider tires
.
I probably have my tiresinflated a little bit too high,
but I'm getting used to that.
But it's just a constantvibration and it's fairly noisy.
(08:41):
But to stop on the side of thetrail here I'm actually on a
bridge, just spectacular.
I decided to stop here for aminute and record.
There's one thing kind ofdisappointing and it's
interesting.
I haven't heard anybody talkabout this and I probably should
have figured that it was goingto be the case.
(09:02):
But the Cascade Palouse Trailin this area going up over Snoop
Kwame Pass goes near orparallel to Interstate 90.
And it's quite noisy.
It's not as peaceful and quiethere as I expected.
(09:22):
It'll be interesting to see ifmaybe this whole section that
I'm riding is mostly this noisy.
The whole section that I'mriding is mostly this noisy.
So far it looks like there areplenty of port-a-potties.
Just got passed by a couplepeople, pretty fully loaded down
(09:43):
.
Looks like they're doing apretty long trip.
But I'm really happy.
There's a lot of port-a-pottiesalong the way here.
I have no idea how they get outhere to pump them out, but
that's pretty handy.
I am now at Alice CreekCampground.
(10:06):
I see a couple nice pads withreally nice picnic tables
alongside and a nice bathroom.
This is about 10 miles in fromRattlesnake Lake and it looks
like there's a family of fourhere on bikes.
That's pretty cool.
Greg (10:27):
So what's your name?
My name is Greg Ballas.
I'm from North Bend, washingtonState.
Nice.
To see you, greg, nice to seeyou too Now.
Tom Butler (10:35):
you have kids here.
Greg (10:36):
Yep.
Tom Butler (10:36):
And you're here at Alice Creek Campground.
Is that that's right?
Okay, and you come up hereoften.
Greg (10:42):
Yeah, we ride this trail pretty regularly.
It comes right down through thetown of North Bend and I
actually take my daughter toschool in Snoqualmie every day
riding on the Snoqualmie ValleyTrail.
Tom Butler (10:53):
Wow, that's very cool.
I love that.
Now this campground.
Have you stayed at other placesalong the trail or do you come?
Greg (11:01):
here, so we've stayed at other places along the trail.
Last summer we did a trip wherewe left from our house in North
Bend, we biked up through thetunnel underneath Snoqualmie
Pass and camped on the shore ofLake Chess at the Cold Creek
Campground.
Tom Butler (11:14):
Okay, that's my destination today.
Oh, excellent, yeah, so that'scool.
Now do cars come into ColdCreek?
No, no, it's a biker hiker only.
Okay, I wasn't sure about that.
Well that's cool.
Now, have you ever thoughtabout doing all the way to the
other side?
Greg (11:29):
we have thought about that , yeah, and someday maybe we'll
do it.
I've written just a minutesweetie.
Tom Butler (11:38):
Okay, so it's father's day.
Happy father's day, and uh, youjust got a request, can you?
Greg (11:45):
can you do it?
My daughter just came over andasked me to uh hang up the
hammock so she can have a swingin the hammock this morning.
That's pretty awesome.
Tom Butler (11:52):
I love that.
So then you are.
It's a two-person hammock.
Okay cool.
I have to stop here and saythat I thought it was really
cute that his daughter was soexcited about it being a
two-person hammock.
What I thought from a distancewas a family of four ended up
being two families bikingtogether.
I believe the big deal abouther stressing it being a
(12:13):
two-person hammock was that shewas going to be able to share
the hammock with her friend thatwas about the same age.
It was a really fun Father'sDay moment for me.
So you're heading home, whichis kind of cool the North Bend
and then you'll come back andpick up your car.
That's right.
So do you have any big cyclingtrips coming up besides this?
Greg (12:32):
uh, this is, uh, the only one that we've got sort of on
the books, but we do like to goa couple times each summer up to
the sant juan islands.
You know, just ride onto theferry and get a campsite at one
of the parks there on theislands and spend a weekend
awesome.
Tom Butler (12:46):
So if you were going to give any advice on how to
prepare for riding the CascadePalouse Trail, what might you?
Greg (12:52):
say Just get out there and do it.
It's a really nice trail, thereare no cars to worry about,
there's plenty of places to camp, there's plenty of places to
access with various trailheads.
So you know, get out there,give it a try, and you know,
start short and go longer.
Awesome, thank you so much.
Thank you.
So Start short and go longerAwesome.
Tom Butler (13:10):
Thank you so much.
Thank you so got an interestingpiece of information after I
stopped the recording.
Talked about his dad at 74, wholives in New England, still
riding his bike every day at 74.
And I asked him.
(13:31):
I said is that what influencedyou to do cycling?
Or the other way around, didyou influence your dad to bike?
And he said, as far as he canremember, they've been a cycling
family, they've always beencycling places and so, just as
an adult yeah, he's just keepingit going and little kids I'm
(13:52):
not really good at guessingkids' ages and they've got
little trailers for kids andthey'll probably grow up saying
the same thing.
We've always been a cyclingfamily.
So it's cool to see I'm like 12miles in, still going parallel
(14:19):
to I-90, but far enough away andenough trees or something that
it's nice and quiet here.
The road noise, but not near asloud as it was earlier, really
peaceful.
(14:39):
So what's your name?
Joanna (14:40):
Joanna
Tom Butler (14:41):
Swer, nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you.
So you're out here on theCascade Palouse Trail, correct?
And do you do this often?
Joanna (14:48):
We haven't done this in quite a few
years.
What do you think about ittoday?
It's beautiful, nice weather,it's not too crowded.
What is your favorite partabout the trail?
Do you have something thatstands out?
Well, I like history, so it'salways fun to see the historical
pieces on here, and getting tothe tunnel, of course, is fun
and, yeah, just kind of peacefulout here.
Yeah, have you ever camped it?
(15:09):
Have you ever bike packed?
Not yet.
Tom Butler (15:11):
But that sounds like you might someday Maybe.
Yeah, okay, cool.
Well, thank you so much.
You're welcome.
Thanks, I am coming up on thetunnel.
They say it can be kind of coldin the tunnel, so I'm going to
put my jacket on.
I'm not that warm.
Even though it's beautiful whenyou're stopped in the sun, it's
a little cool in the shade whenyou're moving.
So I'm not that warm, so I'mgoing to throw my jacket back on
(15:32):
that I took off and turn on myheadlamp and head on in.
I am currently in the tunneland it's much farther than I
thought.
It is incredible.
You couldn't do it without aheadlamp.
For sure you could be aroundother people, maybe have someone
(15:52):
in front and behind with aheadlamp and do it, but it's
dark.
I'm glad I put on my jacketbecause it's pretty cool and
it's somewhat damp.
I think I can see the otherside now, but it has been cool.
It has been cool.
Chris (16:12):
Yeah, what's your name?
My name is chris offman.
Tom Butler (16:14):
I'm from champaign, illinois okay, nice to meet you,
chris.
So you're out here on thecascade palouse trail, correct?
Greg (16:23):
yeah, and I think you said this is your first time here.
Tom Butler (16:25):
Yep, how much of it have you done?
Joanna (16:28):
well, we rode from kirkland yesterday to 60 mile,
about 59 something, and thenwe're gonna do around 56 today
okay, so kirkland to thorpe.
Tom Butler (16:40):
So where'd you stay last night?
Stay along the trail, okay,okay, yeah, this direction
coming from the west okay okay,carter creek okay so you had
that.
You came down a little bit of atrail off the main trail right.
Joanna (16:55):
Yeah, we had to take a couple other trails to get up to
the Paloosta Castle.
Yeah yeah, skirmish ValleyTrail, okay.
Tom Butler (17:03):
Yeah, did you come out here to do this trail?
Joanna (17:07):
I flew this bike out from Champaign on the plane.
That's the first time I've donethat, so that was a new
experience too, okay flying witha bike, yeah um but it worked
out well.
Tom Butler (17:18):
Have you been doing other cycling since you got out
here?
Joanna (17:20):
yeah, we rode across country two years ago, okay, but
we started further north, uh,pretty much followed highway 20.
Yeah, all the way across thestraight of washington and, yeah
, dog, and went down to missoula, okay, south, but we never,
never came this route.
We thought about doing thisroute when we rode across
country, but we didn't.
(17:41):
We weren't sure our bikes wouldhandle the eastern side.
Okay, because it gets a little,a little harder to navigate.
Right, I hear larger rocks,larger rocks, possibly like more
sandy areas.
Yeah, yeah.
Tom Butler (17:56):
So you have any other trips planned.
Do you got some big Rag braai,do you?
Okay, now will that be yourfirst time, or you've done that
before?
I do rag braai just about everyyear, is that right?
Joanna (18:06):
For I don't know, 15 years or so, okay, for 15 years
or so, okay, fantastic.
It's not just a party, it'swhatever you want it to be.
Tom Butler (18:14):
Well, it looks like quite the event.
Yeah, all right.
Well, thanks so much.
Thank you, bye now.
Part of the reason for this ridewas to check out Cold Creek
Campsite as a potentialbikepacking site, and I did that
.
I'd have to say that I wasn'tcrazy about it.
(18:36):
I guess there's two paths, somaybe there's just not that much
traffic, but also it's prettyclose to a parking lot, so it
seems like a lot of people couldjust hike in and it would get
full.
So it seems like something thatyou couldn't really bank on.
(18:58):
So I saw up the trail there wasanother campsite called Roaring
Creek, and so I'm standing hereby a sign that says Roaring
Creek.
It doesn't say anything aboutcamping or anything.
Normally there'll be a littletent if there's camping on the
(19:19):
sign.
And then there's like thissteep hill in front of me.
I think it would be extremelyhard for us to get Kelly's bike
up that hill.
It would be extremely hard forus to get Kelly's bike up that
hill.
So I don't know, maybe furtherdown the trail is the actual
Roaring Creek campground andthis is just a sign for the
(19:40):
Roaring Creek.
I suppose that's possible.
But if this trail goes to thecampsite, that's not an option
either so far.
I'm really glad I did thisscouting trip because we could
be out here all loaded down, notreally finding a place to camp.
Well, I am a little farther downthe trail now and I found a
(20:03):
really nice little backcountrycamping spot A very nice
bathroom and A very nicebathroom and nice tent pads.
There's only two, but I thinkif I went up a trail and
explored a bit there could bemore.
This one's, I think, a farenough distance from the parking
(20:23):
lot that there wouldn't be asmuch hiking traffic here.
So I think this is the spot.
I don't see any label here, butI'm calling this Roaring Creek
Campground, just a little bitpast the actual creek.
I'm guessing that's what thisis.
(20:44):
I'm happy.
Now it's time to turn around,head back home.
Turn around, head back home.
Okay, pro tip, when yourson-in-law tells you you've got
to check out Laconia Market.
It's a really cute littlemarket.
You should find out what ittakes to get there.
I just ended up adding sixmiles to my route and climbing
(21:09):
for about a mile of a 6% grade.
I probably wouldn't have chosento do that, but unfortunately I
baked in a stop there to havewater.
So live and learn.
Jeremy (21:23):
Hi, I'm Jeremy Nice to meet you, Jeremy Nice to meet
you.
Tom Butler (21:25):
So you're out here, it seems like, with a few people
I am.
Jeremy (21:29):
And what are you?
You up to today?
So we're doing the uh greatamerican wheel route riding from
seattle to dc okay, so you'reinto it a little bit.
What a couple days today is thefirst day oh, wow, okay, how
far are you going today?
So still gauging that, but wewere, uh, just all talking about
this as a group.
We all seem that we have a fewdifferent ideas.
(21:49):
I'm kind of considering PlayEllen, okay too about Ellensburg
, depending on how I feel.
Tom Butler (21:55):
So what is it to hear from where?
Just started at the SpaceNeedle, Okay and what?
What's that to hear?
81 miles.
Okay, okay, cool, and you'vebeen on this trail before First
time actually from Virginia.
Okay, you came out to do this.
I did.
Are you in and up in Virginia?
Jeremy (22:15):
I am.
Tom Butler (22:16):
What did you think so far?
Jeremy (22:18):
This is unreal.
This is awesome.
In fact that tunnel just blewme away.
It was great.
Tom Butler (22:26):
I hadn't been through the tunnel before.
It was longer than I expected.
Jeremy (22:30):
It played with my eyes than I expected.
So, yeah, it played with myeyes.
As I was riding through it, Ithought I kept on seeing like
the end, and just kept on goingnow the climbing here is just
like steady, a lot differentthan Virginia, I think oh, yeah,
yeah, for me to train inVirginia I have to go out
towards Shenandoah National Park.
Okay, but out here it's.
I think what carries me throughis the view of the mountains
(22:52):
and the trees and everything.
Yeah, and what a beautiful day.
It's unreal.
Tom Butler (22:57):
Yeah, this is awesome.
Now, what do you think about aresource like this?
Do you think it's important?
Jeremy (23:02):
I do.
I'm a big advocate for railsand trails and just biking in
general.
My interest for this ride wasprimarily because it was its
goal was to keep us away fromheavily traveled areas, maximize
rails to trails, gravel routes,and that's one of the big
incentives for me when I signedup for it.
Tom Butler (23:24):
What do you think it provides as far as the public
is concerned?
Jeremy (23:27):
I think it does a couple things for an area.
I think the one thing that itdoes is it provides a healthy
outlet for people to come intothe area and exercise and you
get a lot more folks coming fromother areas to use it.
At least that's how it is forme where I live.
You know it's definitely a formof active tourism.
And then the other aspect isit's it's kind of gets people
(23:52):
outside.
You know it gets them away fromthe car, go out and kind of
into nature.
Tom Butler (23:58):
Yeah, nice.
Well, nice to meet you,absolutely, you're welcome and
your name Michael.
Nice to meet you, michael.
So you're out here with a group.
Tell me about what got you outhere today.
Michael (24:11):
Well, I watched.
Last year was the inaugural runof this and I saw it online and
followed them across and I saidI've always wanted to do a
cross-country ride.
So I said this looked like oneof the safest ways to do it.
So I said I'm gonna do it Nice.
Tom Butler (24:27):
Now have you done a lot of gravel riding before.
Michael (24:29):
This is my first gravel bike and I bought it after I
saw this last year.
Tom Butler (24:33):
Okay.
Michael (24:34):
And I've never done more than a two-day ride.
Jeremy (24:38):
Okay.
Tom Butler (24:39):
Wow, that's awesome, just jump in.
I love it.
Tell me what you bought, whyyou bought it.
Michael (24:46):
Salsa Warbird had pretty good reviews and it was a
fairly economical bike.
Okay, because it's my 9thbicycle, so I have to not spend
too much Gotcha.
Tom Butler (24:59):
So what do you think about a resource like the
Cascade Palouse Trail?
Michael (25:03):
Well, I actually used to live in Washington.
I live in Florida now, but I'veactually been out here and rode
this, and this is actually myseventh time through the tunnel.
Greg (25:12):
Okay so.
Michael (25:12):
I've done the Palusta Cascades between Beverly and
Twin Falls a couple times.
Tom Butler (25:21):
Okay.
Do you think that it providessomething unique to the?
Michael (25:26):
population.
Yes, I do.
It's great, and if you lookaround see how many people are
here, it kind of shows yeah.
Tom Butler (25:32):
Yeah, that's a beautiful day to be out here.
Michael (25:34):
It is a beautiful day.
Tom Butler (25:36):
Now, do you mind me asking your age?
I'm 65.
Okay, so my podcast is calledCycling Over 60.
Okay, and so our goal is to tryto get people on bikes later on
in life, and so that's good.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhat you're expecting to
experience.
You're now day one, 86 milesinto.
(25:56):
What a 3700 mile trip, yes,okay.
So what are you expecting?
Michael (26:02):
I'm hoping to average about 100 miles a day and make
it in about 40 days, but if ittakes a little longer, that's
okay.
Tom Butler (26:09):
All right, well, fantastic, so nice to meet you.
Good luck on your trip.
Thank you very much.
Thanks for taking the time.
One thing that I've not heardanyone talk about and to me is
kind of a surprising hassle andprobably something I should have
thought about, is if you rideon a dirt trail like the Cascade
to Palouse Trail is a graveltrail you kick up dust, which
(26:35):
that's not that surprising, butI didn't think about how caked
with dust the top of my waterbottle would be.
So what do you do?
Do you try to wipe it off?
Do you figure out a way how tospray it in your mouth without
touching the tip of the waterbottle?
When I try to do that, I end upgetting electrolyte water on my
leg.
(26:55):
Maybe I'm just needing topractice not touching the nozzle
of the water bottle when I'mdrinking from it.
Or do you just consume somedirt and get some extra minerals
on your ride?
I don't know.
I'm in an interesting place inthe trail.
I'm by a sign with big redletters that says Avalanche.
(27:18):
Now I think that they'retalking about a snow avalanche
and there's information abouthow the Chicago, milwaukee, st
Paul and Pacific Railroad howthey maintain the tracks in
wintertime.
It says snow was a constantproblem along the railroad
(27:39):
tracks in this part of theCascades.
If switches or rails wereclogged with snow or ice the
train could derail.
So it's interesting becausethere are some pretty
significant concrete pads that Ithink were used at one time to
(28:00):
support structures to try tokeep snow off the tracks in this
particular area.
It must be particularly open toavalanche in the wintertime and
it says that there were snowsheds that were designed so that
avalanches flowed over the topof the snow shed roof rather
than block the tracks.
(28:20):
Those snow sheds weredemolished between 1993 and 1994
.
So they were here for a whilebecause they were built in 1911.
Okay, here's the dilemma.
I pulled over because my waterbottle cage was loose, was
(28:42):
rattling.
Somebody came up and said, hey,did you lose a jacket?
And I looked and sure enough,my jacket's gone off the back.
I did not think that waspossible.
I thought I had it cinched inthere.
Good, but unfortunately it'sgone.
So do I ride a mile and a halfback, is what he thought to get
(29:03):
the jacket?
I think I have to.
Oh well, after I turned around,I didn't have to go very far
because I ran into some hikerswho had picked up my jacket.
Fortunately they were headingin my direction.
Not long after that my phonebattery died, so if I continue
to do AFTR episodes, I will haveto address that issue.
(29:24):
I ended up riding 58.5 mileswith 2,663 feet of elevation.
My average heart rate was 127,which means it was an easy pace.
I was on the bike riding forabout five and a half hours.
I am curious about how Stravahandles an easy pace.
I was on the bike riding forabout five and a half hours.
I am curious about how Stravahandles the tunnel.
When I was in the tunnel, Iknow there wasn't a data
connection for my bike computer,so it seems like Strava would
(29:44):
have to extrapolate thatinformation somehow, or maybe
the tunnel section is just leftout of the total miles.
I did enjoy the experience andI felt it was really helpful to
scout it out, but I felt thatfive and a half hours on gravel
beat the heck out of me.
It ended up, leaving me with alot of questions.
Recently, a new bike shop movedinto my area.
Northwest Try and Bike is awell-established shop and I've
(30:07):
heard good things about themfrom a friend on the podcast,
mike Baltierra.
I'm sorry, mike, that you haveto drive further to get to your
shop now, but I'm also glad thatit's closer to me.
As the name implies, they doinclude a focus on triathlons.
I really doubt that I'll betaking advantage of that.
Since the gravel ride broughtup questions for me, I decided
it was a great opportunity forme to visit the shop and ask
(30:29):
some questions.
From the moment you walk in youcan tell they are a real
professional operation.
You will hear on the recordingthat it was a buzz of activity
as well.
I was fortunate to have JohnMorrison offer to answer my
questions because he's a reallyexperienced off-road rider.
I'm John.
Nice to meet you, john.
So here's my thing.
I rode the Cascade Cluster Trail.
(30:51):
I've been looking forward totrying to do more gravel riding.
I got out there and it wasbeautiful.
I loved it out there and I'dlike to spend time out there.
But the truth of the matter isthat I just didn't really like
the experience.
I mean I felt I was out therefor about six hours.
I want to give more of mythoughts here, since that audio
(31:12):
failed a bit.
The main thing that I wasmentioning to John was that I
felt like I got beat up reallybad on the trail.
I think John heard more.
It seems like he wasimmediately thinking of a number
of things that could lead tomore enjoyable gravel riding.
I really appreciate him takingthat perspective and I thought
it was a big impact by the timeI got back.
(31:32):
So I don't know if that meansthat I'm just not a gravel rider
, if it means that I'm on thewrong bike.
So I was just wanting to getsome opinion from someone and
since you work in a bike shop, Iwas told that you have some
experience with gravel riding.
(31:53):
But I thought I'd just pickyour brain a bit.
Jon (31:56):
Yeah, I have a little bit of experience with all bicycle
riding.
Okay, one of the big thingswith gravel riding is it just
gets you out a little bit moreon trails, where you don't have
to have the mountain bike withall the switchbacks and the
suspension, and it allows you tobe a little bit quicker when
(32:18):
you're doing the.
Palouse to Cascade trail becauseit is an old railed trail.
It's very straight Right.
So it kind of gets mundaneafter a while.
So you do the big long climbcoming out of North Bend, you do
one turn up by Rattlesnake andthen you just kind of go
(32:41):
straight.
There's a couple little corners, but they're nothing tricky, so
it gets a little boring.
Tom Butler (32:54):
So it sounds to me like what you're saying is that
you're losing something.
If you're going to be gravelriding, there's an element where
you're on trails that are alittle more interesting than
just going straight on arailroad, an old railroad.
Jon (33:11):
Am I hearing that right?
Yeah, so part of the excitementwith the gravel riding is being
able to go out with yourfriends.
Get a little bit more adventureportion into it.
Okay, push the barriers onmaking a corner.
You can feel a little bit of aslide, but it's not dangerous.
You don't need the mountainbike aspect.
(33:32):
You don't need the mountainbike aspect.
The mountain bike you're doing.
You know, on average for theride, 7 to 10 miles an hour.
Tom Butler (33:42):
On a gravel bike you're up and around 12 to 20
miles an hour so it's just adifferent aspect With mountain
biking, I would say the descentsmake me nervous.
Now, I've not done a lot of it,so I can maybe learn bike
handling skills or something,but I would have to say that was
(34:03):
one thing attractive to meabout gravel riding is that
there wasn't the steep downhills.
Jon (34:11):
Correct, it's more being able to go out and ride to a
location on your daily commuterbike and then go off trail so
you're not having to stay on theroad and do some crisscross and
cutting through like hopping onthe wilderness trail.
(34:31):
Okay, getting off of the roadso you're not stuck with traffic
.
Today's traffic is not the sameas it was 20 years ago.
Okay, getting off of the roadso you're not stuck with traffic
.
Today's traffic is not the sameas it was 20 years ago.
Yeah, so you get off the trail.
You get to be less worrisomeabout what's behind you and
coming and just kind of enjoy itand getting out with some
friends.
The aspect of gravel ridingyou've got all kinds of
(34:56):
different gear.
You can get bigger tires.
There are more rollingresistance factors.
Do you want to go out and raceor do you just want to go out
and go bikepacking?
Load up your bike, take it upin the mountains.
Tom Butler (35:12):
Here's one of the questions that I got when I got
off the trail, I liked being outin the mountains.
Here's one of the questionsthat I had when I got off the
trail.
I liked being out in thewilderness.
But you know, again, I wasn'tcomfortable with the bumpiness
the whole time.
I was on this bike, which is myTrek FX3, and I had the tire
pressure at 65.
Fx3.
And I have the tire pressure at65.
(35:35):
So I'm thinking I could reducethat.
Jon (35:39):
So, yes, based on your tire size, it looks like you're
running 35s.
Yes, probably drop that down.
It depends if you're running200 or 200s.
Okay, closer to a 45.
Okay, so that'll absorb a lotof the vibration bumps.
Okay, best way to describe itis the basketball.
Do you want to bounce off ofeach rock or do you want to
(36:02):
absorb?
Okay, so you inflate your tirestoo much and it becomes a
basketball.
So you're just bouncing off ofeverything?
Tom Butler (36:09):
Yeah, rather than letting the bike absorb and roll
through, see, and I thinkthat's what I was doing.
I think that's what it feltlike, like I was bouncing off of
every bump.
Jon (36:20):
Yeah, and right now it looks like you're riding a
commuter bike.
Yes so you're more upright.
Greg (36:25):
Yes.
Jon (36:26):
So you're more prone to only one hand position and
you're sitting up reallystraight.
Tom Butler (36:32):
So when you say that , is that a factor about how the
bumps are transferring throughmy body, is that kind of what
you're thinking?
They'll?
Jon (36:40):
transfer more.
The more you sit upright Okay.
The more they're going to comethrough your seat Okay.
The more lean forward you canget more into your arms, and
your arms are generally bent alittle bit, so they'll absorb a
little bit.
Tom Butler (36:54):
Okay, and then also with a lot of bikes you can get
small suspension upgrades yes,that will help dampen a lot of
those bumps, so I want to talkabout that in a second.
I think these 35s are as wideas I can go on this bike, is
that?
Do you think that's the case?
Jon (37:16):
it's close, you might be able to get a 38 in there.
It's one of those.
You kind of want to take a lookand see what the spec for that
bike is.
Okay, because once you put thetire in, yeah there is supposed
to be some gap, otherwise if youpick up a little lock or
something that sticks in yourtire, don't want that hitting
(37:37):
the freeway.
Tom Butler (37:37):
Okay, so the manufacturer somewhere would say
these are the widest tires forthe spring.
Is that right, correct?
Jon (37:43):
Okay, I know with mine.
It calls out a 30.
I know I can put a 32 in there.
I might be able to push a widerim 32, which will actually come
out to closer to 43.
But again, you're taking away alot of the compliance Okay and
the plus or minus tolerancesthat the bike's going to have.
Tom Butler (38:04):
Yeah, and it's interesting because you know it
seems like they have this framecut in a specific way, you know,
to accommodate a little widertire.
But it's interesting to me.
Here's what, what I'm thinking,and you'll know more about it
than I will.
If I could bump this up to a 35and then again run it at 40, 45
(38:27):
pounds, you could actually justrun the 35s that you've got now
and do reduce that weight.
Jon (38:33):
Okay, yes, I agree.
There's several calculators outon the internet that will help
you with that.
Michael (38:40):
I use this, the Silca tire calculator.
Jon (38:42):
You put in a bunch of different key points tire size,
tire circumference, what kind ofpavement asphalt that you're
riding on, how much do you weigh, and then also what kind of
bike are you riding things likethat asphalt that you're riding
on, how much do you weigh, andthen also what kind of bike are
you riding things like that.
So then it will give you ageneral calculation to start
with.
It gives you you know within acouple of psi what I find to be
(39:10):
right then.
Tom Butler (39:11):
The other thing I thought about is maybe putting a
stem that has some shockabsorption.
Jon (39:18):
Yes.
Tom Butler (39:19):
It seems like that would do a lot.
Jon (39:22):
It does do a lot.
I have one on my gravel bike.
I run one of the Shrem Rockshotand I was out riding a couple
weekends ago.
It's fairly new to my gravelbike and I'm riding and I was
like oh, I've got this, so Idropped it down, and with that
one you have to come down likefive, 10 millimeters, and then
(39:42):
it gives you some compliance.
I want to say it's 20 or 30millimeters of absorption.
That takes out an auto check.
You can do the same with thefront end.
Redshift and many othercompanies make a stem that will
absorb a lot of the bumps in thefront end.
So you don't actually have tospend a lot of shock.
(40:03):
You can just put it into thestem and it'll take out a lot of
that vibration factor.
And then, yeah, it just kind ofdepends how you like to ride.
I know every once in a whileyou'll get out there To rest my
hands.
You just kind of put your handsbehind you and sit up for a
little bit, take some deepbreaths, lean back down and go
(40:25):
at it again.
Tom Butler (40:26):
I'm at this point right now.
Like you said, this is acommuter bike.
This is my run-around town bike.
So the question is, do I goahead and try deflating the
tires?
Jon (40:40):
uh, shock absorbing, stem on.
Or I always suggest start withthe things that are free.
Okay, so go in this tirepressure that's free, doesn't
cost anything, doesn't work outfor you if you just pump it back
up a little bit Again, playwith that a little bit, Go out
ride some gravel, ride some chipseal on pavement.
(41:03):
You'll feel it there as well,and as you start enjoying it
more, start investing a littlebit more Work on.
Is it my front end, where myarms are feeling it, or is it my
rear, with the seat?
Tom Butler (41:17):
you can play with that as well, okay and then if I
get to the point I'm like it's,I've done these things and it's
not enough, then if I went outand looked that I it might be an
issue of finding a differentbike too.
Is that right?
Jon (41:35):
The bike does have a good part of it.
It's not the end all.
But again, are you driving aVolkswagen Beetle from 1965, or
are you driving a Honda?
The vehicle will give you morecompliance on the road and on
the gravel, and if the bike'sbuilt for that and designed for
(41:59):
that the rig and it's built intothe frame, things like that it
will feel more comfortable.
Yeah.
Jeremy (42:07):
And I'm not looking to race gravel.
Tom Butler (42:09):
You know, I'm just looking to go out and have a
recreational ride.
Jon (42:12):
Yeah, I've got a couple gravel bikes.
One is just for commuting andriding for our Sunday rides.
Michael (42:20):
Okay.
Jon (42:21):
And the other one, I'll go out and I'll race gravel.
Jeremy (42:24):
Okay, you'll push it.
Jon (42:26):
But I'll go out and get a little fun with my hands on some
hills up and over.
Okay, but yeah, it's justmaking it as fun as you can and
again, find some groups that goout on the road, okay, and that
will make those longer straightrides that don't have a lot of
(42:47):
excitement a little moreenjoyable Because now you've got
conversation yeah.
Think of it as if you go for awalk.
You're by yourself.
Who are you talking to?
Well, you can talk to yourself.
Greg (42:58):
You go out.
Jon (42:59):
You're out with some friends now you're starting a
conversation and now, all of asudden, you've gone 10 miles
instead of just 5.
Things will go a little quickerand it's more enjoyable.
Tom Butler (43:13):
Now here's the final question.
Now, this was a ending on me.
There might be no answer tothis.
I'm curious if you've everthought about this, if anybody
has brought this up, but mybottles were filled with it.
Greg (43:27):
And so I felt like every time I was taking a drink I was
taking in like sand or dirt orwhatever.
Tom Butler (43:34):
Is there a solution for?
Jon (43:37):
that there's some bottles that have little caps on them.
Okay, I don't like those.
I don't like to have to try andflip them over.
Joanna (43:44):
Yeah.
Jon (43:45):
But for the most part my, I guess, side secret.
Don't put it in your mouth,just pull that up and just
squirt it in.
Joanna (43:54):
Well, and when I try that I end up with.
Jon (43:56):
Give it a little squirt before you squirt it in your
mouth.
Tom Butler (43:59):
Okay, well, I'm just saying what I'm saying is that
I get it on my like shorts, Iget on my legs for some reason.
Greg (44:05):
I guess I need to practice like how does squirt water in
my mouth?
Jon (44:11):
okay, so that's that's how most people handle it, because
they just learn to not have toput it in their mouth and if it,
if it gets to a point whereyou're just not comfortable
doing it and you're alwaysgetting dirty, yeah, just stop
wipe it off, take a drink, lookaround then start to write, and
that I did that.
Tom Butler (44:29):
That's you know.
I like taking in a little water, a lot when I'm writing on the
road.
Greg (44:34):
I like taking in a little water, a lot when I'm riding on
the road, because he's justhaving more water, you know, at
a stop yeah.
Tom Butler (44:39):
Well, John, I really appreciate it.
Jeremy (44:40):
I'm wondering if you have, is there anything?
Tom Butler (44:42):
else you can think of.
That I didn't ask.
Maybe Not that I can think of.
Jon (44:46):
I mean again, for the most part, go out, find a group that
rides.
That will make it a lot moreenjoyable.
Okay, and when you're doingthose rides and I mean
cross-grade has a lot of roadrides yeah, find one that's in
your group of how fast you liketo ride and every once in a
(45:07):
while go and do one that's alittle more spicy.
Okay, don't always stick to thenormal.
Michael (45:14):
If you're out on a trail you see a mountain bike
trail that goes off to the side.
Jon (45:19):
You've got a gravel bike.
Go try it.
The worst that's going tohappen is you're going to have
to get off and walk like a snake.
Tom Butler (45:26):
All right, Well, again, thanks so much.
John Not a problem, thank you.
I went on the Silca website fortheir recommendations on tire
pressure.
I'll put a link to their tirepressure calculator in the show
notes.
There are several data fieldsthat they ask you to fill in.
For weight, I entered in 220pounds.
I chose Category 2, gravel.
(45:46):
For the surface condition, theyhave a surface guide to help
determine what to put there.
The tire width is 35, wheeldiameter 700C.
For tire type, I selectedpuncture resistant tire,
tubeless or latex tube.
I think that describes myGravel King tires that I use
with tubes.
For average speed they didn'thave miles per hour.
Instead they have categories,so I chose recreational and then
(46:11):
for weight distribution, Ichose mountain bikes because I
think that more represents theupright position of the FX3.
They request your email addressbefore you go any further and
that, of course, is so that theycan send you promotional
material.
The recommendation I got fromSilco was right, in line with
John Front tire 43 PSI and rear45.5.
(46:33):
After my conversation with John,I thought about using a hydro
pack to cut down on the amountof northwest soil I would
consume on a gravel ride.
Since we have a nice lighthydro pack, I think I will try
it next time I ride gravel I'm abit concerned about it getting
hot with it on my back, but I'llhave to see how that goes.
Another issue is that I don'tknow if it's a good idea to put
(46:54):
electrolytes in the waterbladder.
I know it will make it harderto clean, so I might have to
figure out an alternative way totake in electrolytes if I'm
using the HydroPak.
My final thought on this ride isthat we're going to have to
look for a different bike forKelly if we're going to bikepack
the Cascade to Palouse Trail.
A bike that allows her to be ina comfortable position and also
handle the constant bumps ofgravel might be a little hard to
(47:16):
find, but we are going to startlooking harder for one.
That's a wrap for the firstAFTR episode.
The audio was a bit rough attimes, but I'll work on
polishing that up in the future.
That is, if people like thiskind of content, like Greg, the
father I met on the trail, saidjust get out there and ride and
remember age is just a gearchange.
This is the Cycling Over 60 podcast, season three,
episode 34,.
Along for the ride on theCascade Palouse Trail, and I'm
your host, tom Butler.
On Father's Day I scouted out abikepacking option.
(00:26):
We have the incredible PalustaCascade Trail only about an hour
from where I live.
I'm pretty sure I can find agood overnight backpacking trip
on the Cascade Palusta Trail.
I've mentioned in a fewepisodes that I would like to do
more bikepacking.
I started out the day with aplan to ride from Rattlesnake
Lake to Cold Creek Campground.
I started out the day with aplan to ride from Rattlesnake
Lake to Cold Creek Campground.
(00:46):
That route is 46 miles roundtrip on gravel with 2,511 feet
of elevation gain.
All the elevation gain is onthe way out.
I think the biggest grade is afew short sections of 5%.
For me, hitting this trailcould be a perfect way to get
more experience with bikepackingand just gravel riding in
general.
I didn't stay overnight on thistrip, but I was interested to
(01:10):
see how full Cold CreekCampground was and I got a few
surprises Before the ride.
I thought that Cold Creek wasaccessible by car on forest
roads, but I didn't really havean idea what it was like at all.
It was a great opportunity totry out this route because the
Roubaix is in the shop and I'mplanning to ride the FX3 on
(01:31):
gravel.
I didn't load camping gear onthe bike for this route.
For this route, I'm not reallyworried about how I will handle
having the bike loaded downbecause it's such a gentle route
.
One of the big questions I'mtrying to answer is if gravel
will be okay for Kelly to ride.
We both think that findinggravel trails would mean more
(01:52):
enjoyable bike experiences forKelly because it would get her
off the road, and my thinkingbefore the ride is that the
Cascade to Palouse Trail couldprovide an awesome option for us
.
Kelly's knees have limited usfrom doing backpacking.
We like car camping, butcamping in parks is difficult
and you have to reserve reallyfar in advance.
Also, the campgrounds tend tobe really crowded.
(02:14):
It would be awesome to findthat backpacking offers us an
option to get out in thewilderness without as many
crowds.
I thought that this route wouldprovide an opportunity to work
on developing a different kindof episode.
I want to occasionally do aalong for the ride or AFTR
episode.
The idea is that I can share myexperience with a route in a
(02:35):
different way.
If this works, aftr episodeswill have route info and include
challenges that I face andsolutions that I come up with,
and I'll also have conversationswith others that I meet on the
trail.
It can be a little weirdwalking up to somebody on a ride
with a microphone, but I findpeople are typically willing to
share a bit about their journey.
(02:55):
One thing is that I'm certainlymindful of not keeping people
too long to have a conversation,and that means conversations
are typically pretty short.
With a little work, I'm hopingthat AFTR episodes bring some
interesting variety to thepodcast.
I would love it if AFTRepisodes generated some
conversations on the CyclingOver 60 Strava Club.
(03:16):
Those comments could add a lotto my observations and
experiences.
So bear with me as I figure outhow to capture good sound
quality while I'm on a ride.
With that said, here we go.
It's just after 7 o'clock on aSunday morning and I am sitting
in a parking lot at RalsnakeLake.
(03:38):
I've been to this park beforeto enjoy the lake, but this is
the first time that I've everparked here to enjoy the Cascade
to Palouse Trail.
I'm sitting in a parking lotand beside me are some
bear-proof trash cans, so that'ssomething to think about.
It seems absolutely impossibleto see a bear on this trail and
(04:02):
I've never heard anybodyinteracting with bears on the
trail.
But we are in the wildernesshere.
I feel extremely fortunate.
I'm only 42 miles from home.
I'm very close to SnoqualmiePass right here Literally one of
the most beautiful places inthe United States.
It's cool this morning.
(04:24):
I will be starting out with ajacket, but I don't think I'll
be wearing it too long.
I do have shorts on.
I'm going to be on a trail andI expect to see some cyclists
that are riding acrossWashington or maybe even riding
across the US.
I expect that how I'm dressed,which is more like someone going
(04:51):
for a road ride, I expect thatI'll look different than people
who are out on a multi-day ormulti-week or multi-month trip.
My bike will definitely lookdifferent.
I will not be loaded down.
I do have my Trek FX3 and notmy Roubaix.
It has gravel tires on it.
(05:12):
I will have a small trunk.
I definitely will look like I'mnot out for more than a day
ride.
This is the first time in a longtime that I'll be out on a
route that I don't know anythingabout by myself.
Yeah, I don't know exactlywhere to stop for water.
I'm carrying enough water withme to go 30 miles.
(05:38):
I've got a 40 mile round trip,so I will want to get some water
somewhere along the way.
I've not heard anybody talkabout having to plan really well
for water on this section ofthe trail, so I don't think it's
going to be an issue.
I'm really looking forward tothis ride.
I am excited to get out thereand experience it.
(06:00):
I'm really crossing my fingersthat the trail is going to be
smooth enough that this would besomething that Kelly and I can
frequently do.
On the way up I was listening tothe TED Radio Hour and got a
really good prep for this ride.
On the way to the trailhead Ilistened to the June 13th
episode of the TED Radio Hourpodcast called Escaping the
(06:24):
Modern World and your Noisy Mind.
One of the segments featuredauthor Pico Ayer.
He talked about how he unplugsfrom the stimuli of his normal
life.
It really got me contemplatinghow writing for hours alone is a
way to cleanse my mind from allthe noise in the world.
I'll put a link for the podcastepisode in the show notes.
I definitely recommend taking alisten.
(06:47):
There's a tree in front of methat has a sign nailed to it
that says outbound, and I'mreally curious about that.
I don't know what that wouldrefer to, but I'm really curious
.
How many people start a tripacross the state of Washington
from here?
I wouldn't think you would.
You'd be missing a lot ofreally cool trail by starting
(07:12):
here.
But I'm not sure what you getwest from where I am.
It might be that this is wherethe gravel part starts and it's
west from here is mostly pavedtrail.
I don't think that's the case,but I am curious about how many
people start a trip acrossWashington, which again is the
(07:33):
Cascade Palouse Trail all gravel.
Well, that's enough of an intro.
It's time for me to get out, getthe bike loaded up and get out
of here.
Well, I had to wander around abit, but I think I finally made
it to where I've met the trail.
It was not really marked outabout how to actually get to the
(07:54):
Palooza Cascade Trail from theparking lot, so I actually made
some mistakes.
But I'm here.
It's quiet, the sun isdefinitely going to be coming
out.
I can see a lot of blue skiesoverhead, so ready for a
beautiful day.
I'm five miles in andabsolutely loving the atmosphere
(08:18):
.
I'm just out in the wildernessgoing through on a bike, not
loving how rough it is.
So I'm going to have to figureout something, maybe wider tires
.
I probably have my tiresinflated a little bit too high,
but I'm getting used to that.
But it's just a constantvibration and it's fairly noisy.
(08:41):
But to stop on the side of thetrail here I'm actually on a
bridge, just spectacular.
I decided to stop here for aminute and record.
There's one thing kind ofdisappointing and it's
interesting.
I haven't heard anybody talkabout this and I probably should
have figured that it was goingto be the case.
(09:02):
But the Cascade Palouse Trailin this area going up over Snoop
Kwame Pass goes near orparallel to Interstate 90.
And it's quite noisy.
It's not as peaceful and quiethere as I expected.
(09:22):
It'll be interesting to see ifmaybe this whole section that
I'm riding is mostly this noisy.
The whole section that I'mriding is mostly this noisy.
So far it looks like there areplenty of port-a-potties.
Just got passed by a couplepeople, pretty fully loaded down
(09:43):
.
Looks like they're doing apretty long trip.
But I'm really happy.
There's a lot of port-a-pottiesalong the way here.
I have no idea how they get outhere to pump them out, but
that's pretty handy.
I am now at Alice CreekCampground.
(10:06):
I see a couple nice pads withreally nice picnic tables
alongside and a nice bathroom.
This is about 10 miles in fromRattlesnake Lake and it looks
like there's a family of fourhere on bikes.
That's pretty cool.
Greg (10:27):
So what's your name?
My name is Greg Ballas.
I'm from North Bend, washingtonState.
Nice.
To see you, greg, nice to seeyou too Now.
Tom Butler (10:35):
you have kids here.
Greg (10:36):
Yep.
Tom Butler (10:36):
And you're here at Alice Creek Campground.
Is that that's right?
Okay, and you come up hereoften.
Greg (10:42):
Yeah, we ride this trail pretty regularly.
It comes right down through thetown of North Bend and I
actually take my daughter toschool in Snoqualmie every day
riding on the Snoqualmie ValleyTrail.
Tom Butler (10:53):
Wow, that's very cool.
I love that.
Now this campground.
Have you stayed at other placesalong the trail or do you come?
Greg (11:01):
here, so we've stayed at other places along the trail.
Last summer we did a trip wherewe left from our house in North
Bend, we biked up through thetunnel underneath Snoqualmie
Pass and camped on the shore ofLake Chess at the Cold Creek
Campground.
Tom Butler (11:14):
Okay, that's my destination today.
Oh, excellent, yeah, so that'scool.
Now do cars come into ColdCreek?
No, no, it's a biker hiker only.
Okay, I wasn't sure about that.
Well that's cool.
Now, have you ever thoughtabout doing all the way to the
other side?
Greg (11:29):
we have thought about that , yeah, and someday maybe we'll
do it.
I've written just a minutesweetie.
Tom Butler (11:38):
Okay, so it's father's day.
Happy father's day, and uh, youjust got a request, can you?
Greg (11:45):
can you do it?
My daughter just came over andasked me to uh hang up the
hammock so she can have a swingin the hammock this morning.
That's pretty awesome.
Tom Butler (11:52):
I love that.
So then you are.
It's a two-person hammock.
Okay cool.
I have to stop here and saythat I thought it was really
cute that his daughter was soexcited about it being a
two-person hammock.
What I thought from a distancewas a family of four ended up
being two families bikingtogether.
I believe the big deal abouther stressing it being a
(12:13):
two-person hammock was that shewas going to be able to share
the hammock with her friend thatwas about the same age.
It was a really fun Father'sDay moment for me.
So you're heading home, whichis kind of cool the North Bend
and then you'll come back andpick up your car.
That's right.
So do you have any big cyclingtrips coming up besides this?
Greg (12:32):
uh, this is, uh, the only one that we've got sort of on
the books, but we do like to goa couple times each summer up to
the sant juan islands.
You know, just ride onto theferry and get a campsite at one
of the parks there on theislands and spend a weekend
awesome.
Tom Butler (12:46):
So if you were going to give any advice on how to
prepare for riding the CascadePalouse Trail, what might you?
Greg (12:52):
say Just get out there and do it.
It's a really nice trail, thereare no cars to worry about,
there's plenty of places to camp, there's plenty of places to
access with various trailheads.
So you know, get out there,give it a try, and you know,
start short and go longer.
Awesome, thank you so much.
Thank you.
So Start short and go longerAwesome.
Tom Butler (13:10):
Thank you so much.
Thank you so got an interestingpiece of information after I
stopped the recording.
Talked about his dad at 74, wholives in New England, still
riding his bike every day at 74.
And I asked him.
(13:31):
I said is that what influencedyou to do cycling?
Or the other way around, didyou influence your dad to bike?
And he said, as far as he canremember, they've been a cycling
family, they've always beencycling places and so, just as
an adult yeah, he's just keepingit going and little kids I'm
(13:52):
not really good at guessingkids' ages and they've got
little trailers for kids andthey'll probably grow up saying
the same thing.
We've always been a cyclingfamily.
So it's cool to see I'm like 12miles in, still going parallel
(14:19):
to I-90, but far enough away andenough trees or something that
it's nice and quiet here.
The road noise, but not near asloud as it was earlier, really
peaceful.
(14:39):
So what's your name?
Joanna (14:40):
Joanna
Tom Butler (14:41):
Swer, nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you.
So you're out here on theCascade Palouse Trail, correct?
And do you do this often?
Joanna (14:48):
We haven't done this in quite a few
years.
What do you think about ittoday?
It's beautiful, nice weather,it's not too crowded.
What is your favorite partabout the trail?
Do you have something thatstands out?
Well, I like history, so it'salways fun to see the historical
pieces on here, and getting tothe tunnel, of course, is fun
and, yeah, just kind of peacefulout here.
Yeah, have you ever camped it?
(15:09):
Have you ever bike packed?
Not yet.
Tom Butler (15:11):
But that sounds like you might someday Maybe.
Yeah, okay, cool.
Well, thank you so much.
You're welcome.
Thanks, I am coming up on thetunnel.
They say it can be kind of coldin the tunnel, so I'm going to
put my jacket on.
I'm not that warm.
Even though it's beautiful whenyou're stopped in the sun, it's
a little cool in the shade whenyou're moving.
So I'm not that warm, so I'mgoing to throw my jacket back on
(15:32):
that I took off and turn on myheadlamp and head on in.
I am currently in the tunneland it's much farther than I
thought.
It is incredible.
You couldn't do it without aheadlamp.
For sure you could be aroundother people, maybe have someone
(15:52):
in front and behind with aheadlamp and do it, but it's
dark.
I'm glad I put on my jacketbecause it's pretty cool and
it's somewhat damp.
I think I can see the otherside now, but it has been cool.
It has been cool.
Chris (16:12):
Yeah, what's your name?
My name is chris offman.
Tom Butler (16:14):
I'm from champaign, illinois okay, nice to meet you,
chris.
So you're out here on thecascade palouse trail, correct?
Greg (16:23):
yeah, and I think you said this is your first time here.
Tom Butler (16:25):
Yep, how much of it have you done?
Joanna (16:28):
well, we rode from kirkland yesterday to 60 mile,
about 59 something, and thenwe're gonna do around 56 today
okay, so kirkland to thorpe.
Tom Butler (16:40):
So where'd you stay last night?
Stay along the trail, okay,okay, yeah, this direction
coming from the west okay okay,carter creek okay so you had
that.
You came down a little bit of atrail off the main trail right.
Joanna (16:55):
Yeah, we had to take a couple other trails to get up to
the Paloosta Castle.
Yeah yeah, skirmish ValleyTrail, okay.
Tom Butler (17:03):
Yeah, did you come out here to do this trail?
Joanna (17:07):
I flew this bike out from Champaign on the plane.
That's the first time I've donethat, so that was a new
experience too, okay flying witha bike, yeah um but it worked
out well.
Tom Butler (17:18):
Have you been doing other cycling since you got out
here?
Joanna (17:20):
yeah, we rode across country two years ago, okay, but
we started further north, uh,pretty much followed highway 20.
Yeah, all the way across thestraight of washington and, yeah
, dog, and went down to missoula, okay, south, but we never,
never came this route.
We thought about doing thisroute when we rode across
country, but we didn't.
(17:41):
We weren't sure our bikes wouldhandle the eastern side.
Okay, because it gets a little,a little harder to navigate.
Right, I hear larger rocks,larger rocks, possibly like more
sandy areas.
Yeah, yeah.
Tom Butler (17:56):
So you have any other trips planned.
Do you got some big Rag braai,do you?
Okay, now will that be yourfirst time, or you've done that
before?
I do rag braai just about everyyear, is that right?
Joanna (18:06):
For I don't know, 15 years or so, okay, for 15 years
or so, okay, fantastic.
It's not just a party, it'swhatever you want it to be.
Tom Butler (18:14):
Well, it looks like quite the event.
Yeah, all right.
Well, thanks so much.
Thank you, bye now.
Part of the reason for this ridewas to check out Cold Creek
Campsite as a potentialbikepacking site, and I did that
.
I'd have to say that I wasn'tcrazy about it.
(18:36):
I guess there's two paths, somaybe there's just not that much
traffic, but also it's prettyclose to a parking lot, so it
seems like a lot of people couldjust hike in and it would get
full.
So it seems like something thatyou couldn't really bank on.
(18:58):
So I saw up the trail there wasanother campsite called Roaring
Creek, and so I'm standing hereby a sign that says Roaring
Creek.
It doesn't say anything aboutcamping or anything.
Normally there'll be a littletent if there's camping on the
(19:19):
sign.
And then there's like thissteep hill in front of me.
I think it would be extremelyhard for us to get Kelly's bike
up that hill.
It would be extremely hard forus to get Kelly's bike up that
hill.
So I don't know, maybe furtherdown the trail is the actual
Roaring Creek campground andthis is just a sign for the
(19:40):
Roaring Creek.
I suppose that's possible.
But if this trail goes to thecampsite, that's not an option
either so far.
I'm really glad I did thisscouting trip because we could
be out here all loaded down, notreally finding a place to camp.
Well, I am a little farther downthe trail now and I found a
(20:03):
really nice little backcountrycamping spot A very nice
bathroom and A very nicebathroom and nice tent pads.
There's only two, but I thinkif I went up a trail and
explored a bit there could bemore.
This one's, I think, a farenough distance from the parking
(20:23):
lot that there wouldn't be asmuch hiking traffic here.
So I think this is the spot.
I don't see any label here, butI'm calling this Roaring Creek
Campground, just a little bitpast the actual creek.
I'm guessing that's what thisis.
(20:44):
I'm happy.
Now it's time to turn around,head back home.
Turn around, head back home.
Okay, pro tip, when yourson-in-law tells you you've got
to check out Laconia Market.
It's a really cute littlemarket.
You should find out what ittakes to get there.
I just ended up adding sixmiles to my route and climbing
(21:09):
for about a mile of a 6% grade.
I probably wouldn't have chosento do that, but unfortunately I
baked in a stop there to havewater.
So live and learn.
Jeremy (21:23):
Hi, I'm Jeremy Nice to meet you, Jeremy Nice to meet
you.
Tom Butler (21:25):
So you're out here, it seems like, with a few people
I am.
Jeremy (21:29):
And what are you?
You up to today?
So we're doing the uh greatamerican wheel route riding from
seattle to dc okay, so you'reinto it a little bit.
What a couple days today is thefirst day oh, wow, okay, how
far are you going today?
So still gauging that, but wewere, uh, just all talking about
this as a group.
We all seem that we have a fewdifferent ideas.
(21:49):
I'm kind of considering PlayEllen, okay too about Ellensburg
, depending on how I feel.
Tom Butler (21:55):
So what is it to hear from where?
Just started at the SpaceNeedle, Okay and what?
What's that to hear?
81 miles.
Okay, okay, cool, and you'vebeen on this trail before First
time actually from Virginia.
Okay, you came out to do this.
I did.
Are you in and up in Virginia?
Jeremy (22:15):
I am.
Tom Butler (22:16):
What did you think so far?
Jeremy (22:18):
This is unreal.
This is awesome.
In fact that tunnel just blewme away.
It was great.
Tom Butler (22:26):
I hadn't been through the tunnel before.
It was longer than I expected.
Jeremy (22:30):
It played with my eyes than I expected.
So, yeah, it played with myeyes.
As I was riding through it, Ithought I kept on seeing like
the end, and just kept on goingnow the climbing here is just
like steady, a lot differentthan Virginia, I think oh, yeah,
yeah, for me to train inVirginia I have to go out
towards Shenandoah National Park.
Okay, but out here it's.
I think what carries me throughis the view of the mountains
(22:52):
and the trees and everything.
Yeah, and what a beautiful day.
It's unreal.
Tom Butler (22:57):
Yeah, this is awesome.
Now, what do you think about aresource like this?
Do you think it's important?
Jeremy (23:02):
I do.
I'm a big advocate for railsand trails and just biking in
general.
My interest for this ride wasprimarily because it was its
goal was to keep us away fromheavily traveled areas, maximize
rails to trails, gravel routes,and that's one of the big
incentives for me when I signedup for it.
Tom Butler (23:24):
What do you think it provides as far as the public
is concerned?
Jeremy (23:27):
I think it does a couple things for an area.
I think the one thing that itdoes is it provides a healthy
outlet for people to come intothe area and exercise and you
get a lot more folks coming fromother areas to use it.
At least that's how it is forme where I live.
You know it's definitely a formof active tourism.
And then the other aspect isit's it's kind of gets people
(23:52):
outside.
You know it gets them away fromthe car, go out and kind of
into nature.
Tom Butler (23:58):
Yeah, nice.
Well, nice to meet you,absolutely, you're welcome and
your name Michael.
Nice to meet you, michael.
So you're out here with a group.
Tell me about what got you outhere today.
Michael (24:11):
Well, I watched.
Last year was the inaugural runof this and I saw it online and
followed them across and I saidI've always wanted to do a
cross-country ride.
So I said this looked like oneof the safest ways to do it.
So I said I'm gonna do it Nice.
Tom Butler (24:27):
Now have you done a lot of gravel riding before.
Michael (24:29):
This is my first gravel bike and I bought it after I
saw this last year.
Tom Butler (24:33):
Okay.
Michael (24:34):
And I've never done more than a two-day ride.
Jeremy (24:38):
Okay.
Tom Butler (24:39):
Wow, that's awesome, just jump in.
I love it.
Tell me what you bought, whyyou bought it.
Michael (24:46):
Salsa Warbird had pretty good reviews and it was a
fairly economical bike.
Okay, because it's my 9thbicycle, so I have to not spend
too much Gotcha.
Tom Butler (24:59):
So what do you think about a resource like the
Cascade Palouse Trail?
Michael (25:03):
Well, I actually used to live in Washington.
I live in Florida now, but I'veactually been out here and rode
this, and this is actually myseventh time through the tunnel.
Greg (25:12):
Okay so.
Michael (25:12):
I've done the Palusta Cascades between Beverly and
Twin Falls a couple times.
Tom Butler (25:21):
Okay.
Do you think that it providessomething unique to the?
Michael (25:26):
population.
Yes, I do.
It's great, and if you lookaround see how many people are
here, it kind of shows yeah.
Tom Butler (25:32):
Yeah, that's a beautiful day to be out here.
Michael (25:34):
It is a beautiful day.
Tom Butler (25:36):
Now, do you mind me asking your age?
I'm 65.
Okay, so my podcast is calledCycling Over 60.
Okay, and so our goal is to tryto get people on bikes later on
in life, and so that's good.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhat you're expecting to
experience.
You're now day one, 86 milesinto.
(25:56):
What a 3700 mile trip, yes,okay.
So what are you expecting?
Michael (26:02):
I'm hoping to average about 100 miles a day and make
it in about 40 days, but if ittakes a little longer, that's
okay.
Tom Butler (26:09):
All right, well, fantastic, so nice to meet you.
Good luck on your trip.
Thank you very much.
Thanks for taking the time.
One thing that I've not heardanyone talk about and to me is
kind of a surprising hassle andprobably something I should have
thought about, is if you rideon a dirt trail like the Cascade
to Palouse Trail is a graveltrail you kick up dust, which
(26:35):
that's not that surprising, butI didn't think about how caked
with dust the top of my waterbottle would be.
So what do you do?
Do you try to wipe it off?
Do you figure out a way how tospray it in your mouth without
touching the tip of the waterbottle?
When I try to do that, I end upgetting electrolyte water on my
leg.
(26:55):
Maybe I'm just needing topractice not touching the nozzle
of the water bottle when I'mdrinking from it.
Or do you just consume somedirt and get some extra minerals
on your ride?
I don't know.
I'm in an interesting place inthe trail.
I'm by a sign with big redletters that says Avalanche.
(27:18):
Now I think that they'retalking about a snow avalanche
and there's information abouthow the Chicago, milwaukee, st
Paul and Pacific Railroad howthey maintain the tracks in
wintertime.
It says snow was a constantproblem along the railroad
(27:39):
tracks in this part of theCascades.
If switches or rails wereclogged with snow or ice the
train could derail.
So it's interesting becausethere are some pretty
significant concrete pads that Ithink were used at one time to
(28:00):
support structures to try tokeep snow off the tracks in this
particular area.
It must be particularly open toavalanche in the wintertime and
it says that there were snowsheds that were designed so that
avalanches flowed over the topof the snow shed roof rather
than block the tracks.
(28:20):
Those snow sheds weredemolished between 1993 and 1994
.
So they were here for a whilebecause they were built in 1911.
Okay, here's the dilemma.
I pulled over because my waterbottle cage was loose, was
(28:42):
rattling.
Somebody came up and said, hey,did you lose a jacket?
And I looked and sure enough,my jacket's gone off the back.
I did not think that waspossible.
I thought I had it cinched inthere.
Good, but unfortunately it'sgone.
So do I ride a mile and a halfback, is what he thought to get
(29:03):
the jacket?
I think I have to.
Oh well, after I turned around,I didn't have to go very far
because I ran into some hikerswho had picked up my jacket.
Fortunately they were headingin my direction.
Not long after that my phonebattery died, so if I continue
to do AFTR episodes, I will haveto address that issue.
(29:24):
I ended up riding 58.5 mileswith 2,663 feet of elevation.
My average heart rate was 127,which means it was an easy pace.
I was on the bike riding forabout five and a half hours.
I am curious about how Stravahandles an easy pace.
I was on the bike riding forabout five and a half hours.
I am curious about how Stravahandles the tunnel.
When I was in the tunnel, Iknow there wasn't a data
connection for my bike computer,so it seems like Strava would
(29:44):
have to extrapolate thatinformation somehow, or maybe
the tunnel section is just leftout of the total miles.
I did enjoy the experience andI felt it was really helpful to
scout it out, but I felt thatfive and a half hours on gravel
beat the heck out of me.
It ended up, leaving me with alot of questions.
Recently, a new bike shop movedinto my area.
Northwest Try and Bike is awell-established shop and I've
(30:07):
heard good things about themfrom a friend on the podcast,
mike Baltierra.
I'm sorry, mike, that you haveto drive further to get to your
shop now, but I'm also glad thatit's closer to me.
As the name implies, they doinclude a focus on triathlons.
I really doubt that I'll betaking advantage of that.
Since the gravel ride broughtup questions for me, I decided
it was a great opportunity forme to visit the shop and ask
(30:29):
some questions.
From the moment you walk in youcan tell they are a real
professional operation.
You will hear on the recordingthat it was a buzz of activity
as well.
I was fortunate to have JohnMorrison offer to answer my
questions because he's a reallyexperienced off-road rider.
I'm John.
Nice to meet you, john.
So here's my thing.
I rode the Cascade Cluster Trail.
(30:51):
I've been looking forward totrying to do more gravel riding.
I got out there and it wasbeautiful.
I loved it out there and I'dlike to spend time out there.
But the truth of the matter isthat I just didn't really like
the experience.
I mean I felt I was out therefor about six hours.
I want to give more of mythoughts here, since that audio
(31:12):
failed a bit.
The main thing that I wasmentioning to John was that I
felt like I got beat up reallybad on the trail.
I think John heard more.
It seems like he wasimmediately thinking of a number
of things that could lead tomore enjoyable gravel riding.
I really appreciate him takingthat perspective and I thought
it was a big impact by the timeI got back.
(31:32):
So I don't know if that meansthat I'm just not a gravel rider
, if it means that I'm on thewrong bike.
So I was just wanting to getsome opinion from someone and
since you work in a bike shop, Iwas told that you have some
experience with gravel riding.
(31:53):
But I thought I'd just pickyour brain a bit.
Jon (31:56):
Yeah, I have a little bit of experience with all bicycle
riding.
Okay, one of the big thingswith gravel riding is it just
gets you out a little bit moreon trails, where you don't have
to have the mountain bike withall the switchbacks and the
suspension, and it allows you tobe a little bit quicker when
(32:18):
you're doing the.
Palouse to Cascade trail becauseit is an old railed trail.
It's very straight Right.
So it kind of gets mundaneafter a while.
So you do the big long climbcoming out of North Bend, you do
one turn up by Rattlesnake andthen you just kind of go
(32:41):
straight.
There's a couple little corners, but they're nothing tricky, so
it gets a little boring.
Tom Butler (32:54):
So it sounds to me like what you're saying is that
you're losing something.
If you're going to be gravelriding, there's an element where
you're on trails that are alittle more interesting than
just going straight on arailroad, an old railroad.
Jon (33:11):
Am I hearing that right?
Yeah, so part of the excitementwith the gravel riding is being
able to go out with yourfriends.
Get a little bit more adventureportion into it.
Okay, push the barriers onmaking a corner.
You can feel a little bit of aslide, but it's not dangerous.
You don't need the mountainbike aspect.
(33:32):
You don't need the mountainbike aspect.
The mountain bike you're doing.
You know, on average for theride, 7 to 10 miles an hour.
Tom Butler (33:42):
On a gravel bike you're up and around 12 to 20
miles an hour so it's just adifferent aspect With mountain
biking, I would say the descentsmake me nervous.
Now, I've not done a lot of it,so I can maybe learn bike
handling skills or something,but I would have to say that was
(34:03):
one thing attractive to meabout gravel riding is that
there wasn't the steep downhills.
Jon (34:11):
Correct, it's more being able to go out and ride to a
location on your daily commuterbike and then go off trail so
you're not having to stay on theroad and do some crisscross and
cutting through like hopping onthe wilderness trail.
(34:31):
Okay, getting off of the roadso you're not stuck with traffic
.
Today's traffic is not the sameas it was 20 years ago.
Okay, getting off of the roadso you're not stuck with traffic
.
Today's traffic is not the sameas it was 20 years ago.
Yeah, so you get off the trail.
You get to be less worrisomeabout what's behind you and
coming and just kind of enjoy itand getting out with some
friends.
The aspect of gravel ridingyou've got all kinds of
(34:56):
different gear.
You can get bigger tires.
There are more rollingresistance factors.
Do you want to go out and raceor do you just want to go out
and go bikepacking?
Load up your bike, take it upin the mountains.
Tom Butler (35:12):
Here's one of the questions that I got when I got
off the trail, I liked being outin the mountains.
Here's one of the questionsthat I had when I got off the
trail.
I liked being out in thewilderness.
But you know, again, I wasn'tcomfortable with the bumpiness
the whole time.
I was on this bike, which is myTrek FX3, and I had the tire
pressure at 65.
Fx3.
And I have the tire pressure at65.
(35:35):
So I'm thinking I could reducethat.
Jon (35:39):
So, yes, based on your tire size, it looks like you're
running 35s.
Yes, probably drop that down.
It depends if you're running200 or 200s.
Okay, closer to a 45.
Okay, so that'll absorb a lotof the vibration bumps.
Okay, best way to describe itis the basketball.
Do you want to bounce off ofeach rock or do you want to
(36:02):
absorb?
Okay, so you inflate your tirestoo much and it becomes a
basketball.
So you're just bouncing off ofeverything?
Tom Butler (36:09):
Yeah, rather than letting the bike absorb and roll
through, see, and I thinkthat's what I was doing.
I think that's what it feltlike, like I was bouncing off of
every bump.
Jon (36:20):
Yeah, and right now it looks like you're riding a
commuter bike.
Yes so you're more upright.
Greg (36:25):
Yes.
Jon (36:26):
So you're more prone to only one hand position and
you're sitting up reallystraight.
Tom Butler (36:32):
So when you say that , is that a factor about how the
bumps are transferring throughmy body, is that kind of what
you're thinking?
They'll?
Jon (36:40):
transfer more.
The more you sit upright Okay.
The more they're going to comethrough your seat Okay.
The more lean forward you canget more into your arms, and
your arms are generally bent alittle bit, so they'll absorb a
little bit.
Tom Butler (36:54):
Okay, and then also with a lot of bikes you can get
small suspension upgrades yes,that will help dampen a lot of
those bumps, so I want to talkabout that in a second.
I think these 35s are as wideas I can go on this bike, is
that?
Do you think that's the case?
Jon (37:16):
it's close, you might be able to get a 38 in there.
It's one of those.
You kind of want to take a lookand see what the spec for that
bike is.
Okay, because once you put thetire in, yeah there is supposed
to be some gap, otherwise if youpick up a little lock or
something that sticks in yourtire, don't want that hitting
(37:37):
the freeway.
Tom Butler (37:37):
Okay, so the manufacturer somewhere would say
these are the widest tires forthe spring.
Is that right, correct?
Jon (37:43):
Okay, I know with mine.
It calls out a 30.
I know I can put a 32 in there.
I might be able to push a widerim 32, which will actually come
out to closer to 43.
But again, you're taking away alot of the compliance Okay and
the plus or minus tolerancesthat the bike's going to have.
Tom Butler (38:04):
Yeah, and it's interesting because you know it
seems like they have this framecut in a specific way, you know,
to accommodate a little widertire.
But it's interesting to me.
Here's what, what I'm thinking,and you'll know more about it
than I will.
If I could bump this up to a 35and then again run it at 40, 45
(38:27):
pounds, you could actually justrun the 35s that you've got now
and do reduce that weight.
Jon (38:33):
Okay, yes, I agree.
There's several calculators outon the internet that will help
you with that.
Michael (38:40):
I use this, the Silca tire calculator.
Jon (38:42):
You put in a bunch of different key points tire size,
tire circumference, what kind ofpavement asphalt that you're
riding on, how much do you weigh, and then also what kind of
bike are you riding things likethat asphalt that you're riding
on, how much do you weigh, andthen also what kind of bike are
you riding things like that.
So then it will give you ageneral calculation to start
with.
It gives you you know within acouple of psi what I find to be
(39:10):
right then.
Tom Butler (39:11):
The other thing I thought about is maybe putting a
stem that has some shockabsorption.
Jon (39:18):
Yes.
Tom Butler (39:19):
It seems like that would do a lot.
Jon (39:22):
It does do a lot.
I have one on my gravel bike.
I run one of the Shrem Rockshotand I was out riding a couple
weekends ago.
It's fairly new to my gravelbike and I'm riding and I was
like oh, I've got this, so Idropped it down, and with that
one you have to come down likefive, 10 millimeters, and then
(39:42):
it gives you some compliance.
I want to say it's 20 or 30millimeters of absorption.
That takes out an auto check.
You can do the same with thefront end.
Redshift and many othercompanies make a stem that will
absorb a lot of the bumps in thefront end.
So you don't actually have tospend a lot of shock.
(40:03):
You can just put it into thestem and it'll take out a lot of
that vibration factor.
And then, yeah, it just kind ofdepends how you like to ride.
I know every once in a whileyou'll get out there To rest my
hands.
You just kind of put your handsbehind you and sit up for a
little bit, take some deepbreaths, lean back down and go
(40:25):
at it again.
Tom Butler (40:26):
I'm at this point right now.
Like you said, this is acommuter bike.
This is my run-around town bike.
So the question is, do I goahead and try deflating the
tires?
Jon (40:40):
uh, shock absorbing, stem on.
Or I always suggest start withthe things that are free.
Okay, so go in this tirepressure that's free, doesn't
cost anything, doesn't work outfor you if you just pump it back
up a little bit Again, playwith that a little bit, Go out
ride some gravel, ride some chipseal on pavement.
(41:03):
You'll feel it there as well,and as you start enjoying it
more, start investing a littlebit more Work on.
Is it my front end, where myarms are feeling it, or is it my
rear, with the seat?
Tom Butler (41:17):
you can play with that as well, okay and then if I
get to the point I'm like it's,I've done these things and it's
not enough, then if I went outand looked that I it might be an
issue of finding a differentbike too.
Is that right?
Jon (41:35):
The bike does have a good part of it.
It's not the end all.
But again, are you driving aVolkswagen Beetle from 1965, or
are you driving a Honda?
The vehicle will give you morecompliance on the road and on
the gravel, and if the bike'sbuilt for that and designed for
(41:59):
that the rig and it's built intothe frame, things like that it
will feel more comfortable.
Yeah.
Jeremy (42:07):
And I'm not looking to race gravel.
Tom Butler (42:09):
You know, I'm just looking to go out and have a
recreational ride.
Jon (42:12):
Yeah, I've got a couple gravel bikes.
One is just for commuting andriding for our Sunday rides.
Michael (42:20):
Okay.
Jon (42:21):
And the other one, I'll go out and I'll race gravel.
Jeremy (42:24):
Okay, you'll push it.
Jon (42:26):
But I'll go out and get a little fun with my hands on some
hills up and over.
Okay, but yeah, it's justmaking it as fun as you can and
again, find some groups that goout on the road, okay, and that
will make those longer straightrides that don't have a lot of
(42:47):
excitement a little moreenjoyable Because now you've got
conversation yeah.
Think of it as if you go for awalk.
You're by yourself.
Who are you talking to?
Well, you can talk to yourself.
Greg (42:58):
You go out.
Jon (42:59):
You're out with some friends now you're starting a
conversation and now, all of asudden, you've gone 10 miles
instead of just 5.
Things will go a little quickerand it's more enjoyable.
Tom Butler (43:13):
Now here's the final question.
Now, this was a ending on me.
There might be no answer tothis.
I'm curious if you've everthought about this, if anybody
has brought this up, but mybottles were filled with it.
Greg (43:27):
And so I felt like every time I was taking a drink I was
taking in like sand or dirt orwhatever.
Tom Butler (43:34):
Is there a solution for?
Jon (43:37):
that there's some bottles that have little caps on them.
Okay, I don't like those.
I don't like to have to try andflip them over.
Joanna (43:44):
Yeah.
Jon (43:45):
But for the most part my, I guess, side secret.
Don't put it in your mouth,just pull that up and just
squirt it in.
Joanna (43:54):
Well, and when I try that I end up with.
Jon (43:56):
Give it a little squirt before you squirt it in your
mouth.
Tom Butler (43:59):
Okay, well, I'm just saying what I'm saying is that
I get it on my like shorts, Iget on my legs for some reason.
Greg (44:05):
I guess I need to practice like how does squirt water in
my mouth?
Jon (44:11):
okay, so that's that's how most people handle it, because
they just learn to not have toput it in their mouth and if it,
if it gets to a point whereyou're just not comfortable
doing it and you're alwaysgetting dirty, yeah, just stop
wipe it off, take a drink, lookaround then start to write, and
that I did that.
Tom Butler (44:29):
That's you know.
I like taking in a little water, a lot when I'm writing on the
road.
Greg (44:34):
I like taking in a little water, a lot when I'm riding on
the road, because he's justhaving more water, you know, at
a stop yeah.
Tom Butler (44:39):
Well, John, I really appreciate it.
Jeremy (44:40):
I'm wondering if you have, is there anything?
Tom Butler (44:42):
else you can think of.
That I didn't ask.
Maybe Not that I can think of.
Jon (44:46):
I mean again, for the most part, go out, find a group that
rides.
That will make it a lot moreenjoyable.
Okay, and when you're doingthose rides and I mean
cross-grade has a lot of roadrides yeah, find one that's in
your group of how fast you liketo ride and every once in a
(45:07):
while go and do one that's alittle more spicy.
Okay, don't always stick to thenormal.
Michael (45:14):
If you're out on a trail you see a mountain bike
trail that goes off to the side.
Jon (45:19):
You've got a gravel bike.
Go try it.
The worst that's going tohappen is you're going to have
to get off and walk like a snake.
Tom Butler (45:26):
All right, Well, again, thanks so much.
John Not a problem, thank you.
I went on the Silca website fortheir recommendations on tire
pressure.
I'll put a link to their tirepressure calculator in the show
notes.
There are several data fieldsthat they ask you to fill in.
For weight, I entered in 220pounds.
I chose Category 2, gravel.
(45:46):
For the surface condition, theyhave a surface guide to help
determine what to put there.
The tire width is 35, wheeldiameter 700C.
For tire type, I selectedpuncture resistant tire,
tubeless or latex tube.
I think that describes myGravel King tires that I use
with tubes.
For average speed they didn'thave miles per hour.
Instead they have categories,so I chose recreational and then
(46:11):
for weight distribution, Ichose mountain bikes because I
think that more represents theupright position of the FX3.
They request your email addressbefore you go any further and
that, of course, is so that theycan send you promotional
material.
The recommendation I got fromSilco was right, in line with
John Front tire 43 PSI and rear45.5.
(46:33):
After my conversation with John,I thought about using a hydro
pack to cut down on the amountof northwest soil I would
consume on a gravel ride.
Since we have a nice lighthydro pack, I think I will try
it next time I ride gravel I'm abit concerned about it getting
hot with it on my back, but I'llhave to see how that goes.
Another issue is that I don'tknow if it's a good idea to put
(46:54):
electrolytes in the waterbladder.
I know it will make it harderto clean, so I might have to
figure out an alternative way totake in electrolytes if I'm
using the HydroPak.
My final thought on this ride isthat we're going to have to
look for a different bike forKelly if we're going to bikepack
the Cascade to Palouse Trail.
A bike that allows her to be ina comfortable position and also
handle the constant bumps ofgravel might be a little hard to
(47:16):
find, but we are going to startlooking harder for one.
That's a wrap for the firstAFTR episode.
The audio was a bit rough attimes, but I'll work on
polishing that up in the future.
That is, if people like thiskind of content, like Greg, the
father I met on the trail, saidjust get out there and ride and
remember age is just a gearchange.
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