June 1, 2025 • 59 mins
Get ready for a dose of inspiration! This week on Cycling Over Sixty, host Tom Butler takes us on one of his most challenging rides yet: the Destiny Dozen in Tacoma, Washington. Then, it is on to an insightful conversation with Ken Reinke, author of The Road Spoke: Trepidation and Tranquility on a Bicycle Odyssey. Ken shares how embracing an adventurer's mindset and living in the moment has led to incredible cycling experiences.
LINKS
Cycling Without Age Website: cyclingwithoutage.org
PBS JoyRide: youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzkQfVIJun2KC41o1VdOZD_elNch2Z2ya&si=npuWtksB0g-cc94j
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Show music is "Come On Out" by Dan Lebowitz. Find him here : lebomusic.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tom Butler (00:04):
This is the Cycling Over 60 Podcast, season 3,
episode 31,.
An Adventurer's Mindset.
And I'm your host, tom Butler.
A couple of weeks ago I talkedabout plans to do the Destiny
(00:26):
Dozen ride.
One thing I learned is that theDozen is a baker's dozen, so it
is 12 of the hardest climbs inTacoma, washington, and a 13th
thrown in for fun.
It was a really fun event.
Leon Nettles, executive directorof Second Cycle, let out the
group I was in.
This group was known as thequote fun group.
Leon was riding an electriccargo bike with who knows how
(00:50):
much equipment on it.
It was fitted with twobatteries and I bet he needed
all the power he had.
One accessory on the bike was afairly good-sized Bluetooth
speaker, so when we hit a hill,riders could get inspired by a
hill climb-specific playlist.
By the way, if you're lookingfor a playlist to blast from a
speaker on your bike, you cansearch Spotify for Destiny Dozen
(01:11):
24 under the playlist section.
I'm not a big fan of playingmusic when riding, but it worked
with the party atmosphere ofthe Destiny Dozen ride.
It is possible that myrejection of music on a ride
could just be my age.
The Destiny Dozen might havebeen the hardest thing I've done
on a bike.
The only thing that might havebeen tougher was climbing 6,559
(01:34):
feet over Washington Pass.
The ride over the pass was along, steady climb.
The Destiny Dozen was short,really steep hills.
I managed to do 10 of the 13climbs.
On the other three I walkedabout halfway up.
One climb was horrificcobblestones.
I think I might have been ableto make that climb if it had
(01:54):
been a normal road, but I'm notsure.
I was going really slowly upthe hills and I just couldn't
keep the bike under control onthe cobblestones.
On the other two that I didn'tmake, my heart rate got high
enough for me to stop.
One of the hills had a sectionwith a 26% grade.
It was just a small section,but I was unable to get past it.
It was a little strange becauseI felt like I got better as the
(02:15):
day went on with respect tomanaging my effort.
For one thing, I stayed towardthe back of the group.
That allowed me to avoid peoplepassing me.
Plus, by the time I got to themiddle of the climb, people who
were going to stop had alreadystepped off and were pulled to
the side.
I was riding the Roubaix, so mylowest gear option was 34-34.
(02:36):
I think that should be lowenough, but there were plenty of
people who had mountain bikesor other setups with lower gear
options.
I did feel like I paced myselfpretty well throughout the day.
The climbs got somewhat easierand I did the last seven hills
in a row.
I did much better on the longerclimbs that weren't so steep, I
would have to say.
After only the second hill Itexted people saying that I made
(02:58):
a mistake, so it took a bit forme to convince myself to keep
going.
Being in the fun group meantthat we rode slower between
hills.
However, after the last hillthe pace picked up dramatically
back to second cycle.
However, after the last hillthe pace picked up dramatically
back to the finish area, whichwas second cycle in Tacoma,
where it had started from.
I was pleased that I had enoughin my legs that I was able to
(03:20):
keep up what is a pretty goodpace for me all the way to the
end.
I was also pleased that I tookoff the next day after the ride
and then did a really lightrecovery ride two days later and
I ended up being fine.
So my recovery from what waspretty intense seemed really
good.
I thought I was going to havesome crampings the night after
(03:40):
the ride, but fortunately thatdid not happen.
A big question for me is will Ido it again next year?
I really did like the challengeof it, so I think there's a
good chance that I will do itagain.
One thing is I never felt likeanyone looked down on me for
going slow or even when I had towalk.
It really was a greatatmosphere.
I'll have to see how I feelcoming up to it next year.
(04:03):
One thing I'm happy to sharewith everyone is that Cycling
Over 60 has become an affiliatewith Cycling Without Age
recently.
I believe there's somethingincredibly wholesome about the
Cycling Without Age effort.
If you don't know about CyclingWithout Age, you can get a lot
of information from theirwebsite at cyclingwithoutageorg.
For me, a really great optionis to watch a series on PBS
(04:25):
called Joy Ride.
You can watch the seriesthrough the PBS website or on
YouTube.
I will put links to both ofthese.
Cycling Over 60 is going to behelping get mechanical support
and also training people tooperate the tri-shaws for an
organization here in Tacoma,washington.
Hopefully we can be a resourcefor the entire region at some
(04:46):
point If you watch the PBSfootage about the program, you
can see the impact of givingpeople with limited mobility a
ride.
For me, this has the potentialof bringing an aspect of service
to Cycling Over 60, and I'mlooking forward to growing our
efforts to support localprograms.
(05:12):
Because of the fine people atWarm Showers, I've had some
great conversations to sharewith you here on the podcast
lately this week I'm joined byKen Reinky, who has inspired me
as much as anyone could.
There are just some people thatapproach life as an adventure.
Ken is definitely one of them.
As you will hear, he has takenon life challenges despite some
significant physical limitations.
(05:32):
Here's our discussion.
For the rest of my life, I wantto do what it takes to
challenge myself, to stay active, and my guest today I see as a
real model for that kind ofdetermination.
Ken Reinke, thank you forjoining me today.
Ken Reinke (05:48):
Oh, my pleasure.
Tom Butler (05:50):
As I said, you have modeled a willingness to take on
physical challenges and I'mreally happy for people to hear
you share your story Now.
When you were too young toremember you were diagnosed with
polio and I'm wondering if youtalk about how that shaped your
life in respect to being active.
Ken Reinke (06:12):
Well, I've always lived with a substantial limp.
That has been my entire life,and so that has actually
probably been to my advantage,because I didn't have to change
anything.
I had to grow into this andeven when I was really young, I
(06:36):
played soccer before school, ingrade school, and we played
baseball and I did all thosethings and I don't remember that
it was anything special for me.
I just approached it with thatyoung person uh, deliverateness.
Tom Butler (06:55):
Do you feel like your family kind of helped you
have that perspective that thiswas just something to you know
to keep on living with andthings like that?
Ken Reinke (07:07):
Oh, it's hard to tell, it's hard for me to tell
on that we just went along asthough nothing was unusual.
But I did have to go.
You know, I wore brace shoesback then and stuff like that,
so that there was nothing normalabout that, but my parents
didn't act like anything wastotally unusual.
Tom Butler (07:30):
Now, how about your earliest memories of the bicycle
?
When you think about that, whatcomes to mind?
Ken Reinke (07:35):
Probably when I was about eight or nine years old,
my father found a bicycle in aditch what was left of a bicycle
in a ditch and he actuallyassembled that for me made that
bicycle work, and I mean I lovedit right away.
Tom Butler (07:54):
Nice, well, that's fantastic Good for your dad to
do that, Indeed.
So you talked about how youjust kept going, you know,
despite having, you know, abrace on and things like that.
Do you see that you did have toovercome some obstacles because
(08:15):
of that?
And if so, did that shape thatovercoming obstacles earlier in
life can shape your ability totake on different difficult
things later overcoming?
Ken Reinke (08:24):
obstacles earlier in life can shape your ability to
take on different difficultthings later.
Well, I have to assume that itdid.
Eventually, I could discoverthat it was an advantage that I
didn't let it stop me from doingmuch, but it helped me, yes, I
think, to overcome obstacles ingeneral.
Tom Butler (08:43):
As you got older.
How did your cycling change?
Did you do more of it?
Did you back off from it atsome point, or have you been
pretty consistent?
Ken Reinke (08:53):
I've been somewhat consistent, depending on what I
was doing.
I've lived a checkered life ofdifferent jobs and stuff like
that and moving around ofdifferent jobs and stuff like
that, and moving around Fastforward to my 60s, because after
all, we're talking aboutcycling after 60.
And I was off and on bikes allthe rest of my life.
(09:16):
But since I turned 60, my limphas gotten worse.
My disability from polio is alittle more pronounced now.
I cannot walk without a cane ora walker.
But since bike riding isnon-weight bearing, my scoliosis
(09:40):
isn't so affected.
You know, having limped mywhole life, I have a curvature
that's painful, but I can get onmy bike without pain and ride,
and that's part of the reasonfor these long distance cycling
tours.
Tom Butler (09:56):
Nice, that's very cool.
And then before 60, I thinksimply in your 40s, you were
diagnosed with diabetes and I'mwondering if you could talk
about your reaction to thatdiagnosis.
Ken Reinke (10:14):
Well, it certainly wasn't good.
I was in my 40s, I didn't evenknow what diabetes was.
And then all of a sudden thingshave changed and I have to go
to the doctor and they're like,well, you know, you're a sweet
guy, is what they the way theyput it?
And I'm like, well, what doesthat mean?
And then, well, you're diabetic.
(10:35):
I had no idea and so you knowit was a big learning curve,
adjusting on medications andblood sugar and stuff like that.
But I wasn't riding my bike alot during that era.
I was working in Alaska andthen in the winters, when I left
(10:56):
Alaska, I would travel overseas, in foreign countries, backpack
traveling.
So I've always been movingaround.
But eventually I had to facethe diabetes and change things.
It's a lifestyle change.
Tom Butler (11:17):
Right?
Were they prescribing insulinfor you immediately, or did that
come about over time?
Ken Reinke (11:26):
uh, no, um, first of all, they start you off with
oral medications and stuff likethat, and, uh, eventually, I had
enough trouble with some ofthose.
I I honestly would recommendpeople go straight to insulin,
because it's a hormone, it's nota drug, and it's very clean,
(11:52):
without side effects.
I think insulin is a better wayto go.
So eventually, though, Igraduated to that, and so for
the last 25 years, it's justbeen insulin.
Tom Butler (12:05):
Gotcha, you made what I think is kind of a fun
comment where you said my neuralpathways being what they are.
I started to think about theidea of crossing the country by
bicycle.
I'm curious about thatstatement.
What do you mean by my neuralpathways being what they are?
Ken Reinke (12:27):
Because for me, once I was retired and I'm riding my
bike all the time, it's justautomatic.
Oh, I wonder if I can make itacross the country, and it's
like something that I can't evenhelp it.
You know, it's automatic.
And then that led to Route 67.
Tom Butler (12:51):
So you have.
I think I'm picking up anadventurer's mindset.
Is that fair to say?
Ken Reinke (12:58):
Yeah, almost to a crippling amount, because I've
actually hitchhiked over 16,000miles in the United States in my
youth and I've traveled to 30countries backpack traveling and
I, just like the developingcountries, better Forget Europe,
(13:22):
you know.
Give me Indonesia.
So that kind of thing.
Yeah, I'm an adventurer.
Tom Butler (13:31):
Nice, talk about Route 67.
Ken Reinke (13:36):
Route 67 was the natural progression of that
inability to control my thinkingon things and it just came on
automatically.
I'm like, okay, maybe I readsome about going to San Diego,
stay south, don't fight theweather.
And so Route 67, it just cameon naturally.
(14:03):
And even my wife said, well, itseems kind of far, but I don't
know.
It was just the natural nextstep and I learned about routes
through.
I joined Adventure CyclingAssociation and I can't say
(14:24):
enough good about their routemaps and you get to know from
the beginning.
Their maps are broken into30-mile sections and you get to
know in advance what's coming upand it might well be nothing,
but you'll know that also.
So those maps made Route 67.
(14:49):
I call it Route 67 because Iwas 67 years old, but that made
that route easy in terms of youknow planning what roads to take
and stuff like that.
Highly recommend that forfirst-time cross-country bikers.
So where were you starting?
At my house.
(15:10):
I live right here in NorthFlorida.
I live in Hawthorne, florida.
So no, I didn't go over to theEast Coast and dip my tire or
anything.
I just left from my house andthe southern tier left from my
house and the southern tier,which is what that route is
called to San Diego is onlyabout 12 miles from my house.
Tom Butler (15:35):
So you talked about Adventure Cycling Association
connecting with them.
I had an opportunity to talkwith their executive director
with their executive director,jen O'Dell, and that was on
November 16th 2023.
So I do encourage people to goback and listen to that, because
it's a fantastic organization.
(15:56):
And so when you started doingthat, did you?
It sounds like that was alearning experience when you
started out, were you prettycomfortable with having a lot of
unknowns, or did you feel likeyou pretty much had everything
locked in?
Ken Reinke (16:10):
No, I am extremely comfortable with unknowns and
that's why all that hitchhikingback when and the travel to
foreign countries.
No, I don't have any problemwith unknowns.
In fact, here everybody more orless speaks English.
So now other unknowns like howwas the diabetes going to affect
(16:34):
me and could I actually make it?
Is it completely crazy?
But I was riding a lot, I wasriding.
I could ride 30 miles in themorning and I was riding 100
miles a week and that's what ledinto okay, let's give it a go.
I mean, I wasn't riding aloaded bike.
(16:55):
That was one of the things whenI pulled out of on all of my
bike, cross-country biking.
I pull out of my carport with50 pounds of gear on my bicycle
and I have a Surly long haultrucker and it's excellent for
carrying heavy weights and it'sgot 30 speeds, so it could
(17:15):
really help me get up the rises,the hills.
Tom Butler (17:21):
And you were relying a lot on your backpacking, I
think, in knowing how to campand what to take and even how to
keep things light, things likethat seems like would have been
something you were well familiarwith.
Ken Reinke (17:37):
Well, I did do research and there's a lot of it
online.
There's a lot of stuff onlineand there's the ones that you
know count every ounce becauseyou have to carry every ounce to
the top of that next hill.
I'm not quite that fanaticabout it.
(17:57):
I'm like if I need it, I needit.
I'm gonna take it and manage toget up that hill.
Tom Butler (18:05):
Nice, and then you chose April Fool's Day 2021 to
start another trip.
So tell me why you decided tohit the road again.
Ken Reinke (18:28):
I did the San Diego route.
That was about 3000 miles, andthen that during the spring of
whatever year that was, and thenI did a 900 mile trip down to
Key West and back from my housethat winter.
But then COVID hit and I tookthat year off because I was
finding it difficult even tofill water bottles, you know.
(18:48):
And I took that year off.
But then when that let up, Icouldn't help it again.
I was addicted and I'm going,and I'm going to hit try to go
to my friend's house in nearSeattle, and so, and then I had
to do that without routeestablished because I only
(19:10):
rarely incurred any routes fromAdventure Cycling Association.
I think I was on thetranscontinental route for about
100 miles or so, otherwise Ihad to make up my own routes and
along the way I had waypoints.
You know, I had friends inMississippi and some people in
(19:34):
Denver, and then I wanted tostop at the Adventure Cycling
Association.
So those were three waypointsand it was just figuring out the
in-between and I love maps, soI was, was, you know, good at it
so how did that play out?
Tom Butler (19:51):
was that like every few days you picked routes for
the next three days or were youlike day to day?
What?
What were you doing in thatrespect?
Ken Reinke (20:00):
well.
So I got paper maps and I usedgoogle maps bicycle Now in towns
and between towns and stufflike that.
It's in big cities especially.
It's great, it is a great thing, but it's not so great out in
(20:23):
the country and it took me overa couple bridges that weren't
there and stuff like that.
So, but that's all part of allpart of the adventure of it and
so, yeah, okay, well, thisbridge isn't here.
I guess I got to find anotherroute.
Tom Butler (20:41):
So it was yeah, if I was reading correctly that, on
the fly problem solving, did youlike embrace that with what you
called Route 69?
You called Route 67 becauseyou're 67 and then Route 69.
Was that really a big part ofit was to embrace that unknown
(21:06):
route, that challenge or thatadventure of planning things out
and having to overcome maybesomething like a bridge out.
Ken Reinke (21:16):
Absolutely.
To me.
That's the spice of crosscountry traveling, especially
without an established route.
Yes, I got drowned out of mytent one night.
I mean, stuff happens and youhave to deal with it.
But mostly I can deal with thatkind of stuff with alacrity.
It's like, ok, this is what,this is what's happening now,
(21:39):
deal with it.
Route 69.
You know, one of the reasons Istarted it on April 1st, april,
fool's Day, is that you know itwas a little bit crazier than
even the first trip acrosscountry.
It was two years crazier, youknow, two years older, and it
(22:01):
was about 700 miles further thanthat first one.
But I can't, it's difficult toexplain.
When you first start off, thefirst six days or so I spend my
time talking myself into notquitting Because it is hard and
(22:24):
I stealth camp so I never knowwhere I'm going to spend the
night, which I like that, but itdoes make it a little more
difficult.
But then, once you get over ahump, there's a hump that you
have that probably every crosscountry cyclist has to get over.
I don't know that hump and Iwas at my friend's house in
(22:48):
Mississippi and I look and I go.
You know Denver's anotherthousand miles.
It was meaningless to me.
Okay, let's go A thousand miles, all right.
Tom Butler (23:03):
So what let's go.
And then, where did you end upon that route?
What was your final destinationon that route?
Ken Reinke (23:09):
Well, I wrote a book about that, and what I talked
about was I had a friend in PortTownsend, washington, so it's
just a little past Seattle andso I said, well, I'm going to
ride my bike over to my friend'shouse.
It just happens to be 3,000plus miles away.
Tom Butler (23:30):
Well, I love Port Townsend.
By the way, we actually justdid a camping trip not long ago
where we rode part of theOlympic Discovery Trail.
Ken Reinke (23:42):
I read about that yeah.
Tom Butler (23:44):
And so that area, I think that's a fantastic place,
I think, to wrap up a hugeadventure across the country.
Ken Reinke (23:54):
Yeah, definitely, and I was in Port Townsend for
like five days and every day wassunny.
It was a really, reallywonderful end to my trip.
Tom Butler (24:05):
Nice.
So here you are, at 69 yearsold.
You have dealt with the effectsof polio for a long time.
You're an insulin-dependentdiabetic.
Did you get any pushback fromfamily?
Ken Reinke (24:20):
No, not really, because I mentioned that.
My wife said, oh, that's kindof far.
My wife said, oh, that's kindof far, but no, I'd already done
Route 67.
That was 3,000 miles, so thiswas just a small bit crazier.
No, I had some friends tell mewell, you know, if you get down
(24:41):
the road we'll come and get you.
You know, you decide to quit,we'll come and get you.
Tom Butler (24:47):
So how about your doctor?
Did your doctor is?
Are they fully medical staff,fully on board with with these
adventures?
Ken Reinke (24:56):
I wouldn't know no, I know I don't mess with that so
much, of course would.
Would you know?
Would anyone think that a69-year-old riding 3,000 miles
on a bicycle be a good idea?
Who could approve of that?
Tom Butler (25:17):
Well, you know, I think that is an excellent
observation, and one of thethings that I've become more
focused on recently is theaspect of a bicycle as a medical
device.
The truth of the matter is I amsure that you're you know, when
you're riding a hundred miles aweek, I mean that was having
(25:40):
just all kinds of benefits foryou, and I think that probably
medical professionals arerealizing more and more just how
valuable that kind of activityis.
Ken Reinke (25:53):
Oh yeah, I'm sure of it.
You know, I just love ridingthe bike.
And did I mention that with thescoliosis?
The bicycle is not weightbearing.
It's not a weight bearingmachine.
I mean a weight bearing way ofexercising, and so that takes
all the stress off of my back.
(26:13):
I mean, I more or less can'twalk very well now because of my
back, not because of my polio,but I can ride that bike.
Tom Butler (26:24):
That's fantastic.
You talk about stealth camping.
I'm not really familiar withthat term.
What does that refer to?
Ken Reinke (26:33):
So I am an inveterate stealth camper.
I ride into the evening andthen around 6 pm, I look for a
place to hide out, whether I'min the woods, out in the woods
or in a town.
Out, whether I'm in the woods,out in the woods or in a town.
(26:54):
And by 7 pm I'm looking alittle more desperately for a
good hideout.
I can't otherwise afford tomake a trip like that.
No, it's all stealth camping.
And when I'm in small townsI'll look for churches with no
houses behind them and then gobehind that church and put my
little one-man tent up.
If I'm in the woods, that's nota problem.
(27:16):
And when you're out in theWestern vacant states, nobody
cares.
You know, you pull a little offthe roads, throw your tent up,
nobody cares.
I've done that for all of mytrips.
And then every now and then,though, obviously, you need to
pull into a motel somewhere.
Or if I saw a big head ofstorms coming on my radar app,
(27:41):
I'll just get in a motel.
There's no sense fighting that.
Tom Butler (27:46):
Did you ever get kicked out of a place?
Did anybody come say, hey, youcan't camp here.
Or was it pretty consistentthat you could rely on it?
Ken Reinke (27:55):
Part of it is relying on my judgment of it,
which is pretty good.
But yes, one time I got kickedout from behind a church.
I always tell people who areinterested in stealth camping
don't camp behind churches onSaturday night because people
need to show up pretty early onSunday morning.
(28:16):
But this was a Friday night andthe guy was just checking the
grounds and I was all set upbehind there and it was like a
putting green.
It was a wonderful spot.
And then he called somebody andafter some conversation they
(28:38):
just said they suggested I moveon.
Tom Butler (28:41):
Okay, so Christians out there, I'm just going to say
, you know, I don't feel likethat's a great representation
kicking someone who's 69 outfrom a tent in the back of your
church, but you know who am I tojudge?
But still.
Ken Reinke (28:58):
Well, indeed, I mean , you know, for whatever reason,
they may have had vandalism inthe past or something I don't
know, and I didn't expect themto explain that to me, because,
after all, I was the one takingadvantage of this place.
The problem with that, though,was it was pretty close to dark
(29:19):
and virtually impossible to findanother place going down the
road, and I ended up in a prettynot nice spot, and, besides, I
can't push my bicycle through alot of brush.
My legs just aren't strongenough.
So, like always, I'm lookingfor even if there's woods, I'm
(29:41):
looking for a road that crossesthe ditch.
No mailboxes, you know it's alittle bit scientific.
No mailboxes, you know it's alittle bit scientific.
And then the tire tracks and soforth, so all those come into
my judgment on these stealthcamping things.
Tom Butler (30:00):
I'm always curious about the social element there
and I'm imagining that you hadan opportunity to interact with
a lot of people.
I'm curious if you hadinteractions that were memorable
with people when you talkedabout your age and what you were
doing and all of that.
Ken Reinke (30:20):
Indeed, an old man riding up on a loaded bike opens
people up, you know, there'snothing to be afraid of, and it
just opens people up andeverybody is curious and mostly
kind and generous.
(30:40):
Because I would have people,you know, because I was always
up.
You know, I was always up andI'd meet somebody and it's fun
to talk to them.
And I would be alone for verylong stretches of time.
But one of the things that Isay is alone is not lonely,
(31:03):
loneliness is a state of mind.
Being alone is a state of being.
You know, I'd be alone and thenI'm fine with that, but then
I'd have somebody to talk to andI'd be enthusiastic, and then
they'd hand me 20 bucks and it'slike, well, it's not, I don't
like taking money from people,but in a way it's their way of
(31:28):
participating and so, okay, sureyou know.
And then down the road I'd go.
So I had lots and lots of verygood encounters, lunches bought
for me, and when I was up on theCross America route even up
there, where they see lots ofcyclists, even up there, where
(32:00):
they see lots of cyclists therewere a number of times that I
went to pay for my lunch andthey would say it's been covered
and that's somebody, that's afew people that I never even
spoke with, and so there's a lotof good people out there and
you know there's a few not sogood ones, and thank God they're
rare.
When I was up in northern Idahoand that's anti-government,
skinhead country, I don't knowif you can see that I was in a
(32:25):
restaurant having breakfast andthis guy sat down next to me and
it was not a friendly, it wasan interrogation and it was a
little bit frightening becausethen I got to leave this and go
down the road and here's thisreally odd person who feels
threatened by me.
You know, being in that area, Idon't know, I don't know, but
(32:49):
that was really one of the worstof them.
Most people were friendly andkind by far.
Tom Butler (33:00):
Well, I think it's an awesome observation.
You know that that was rare.
You know that's encouraging,that that's rare, and I think
it's also really powerful thatpeople were moved, Like you said
, they wanted to take part inthis journey that you were
having and I think that reallyrepresents them being moved by
(33:23):
hearing about your experience.
Ken Reinke (33:25):
Well, there's no question that my activity was
inspiring to almost everyone Ispoke to and they usually said
that.
They usually came around andsaid, wow, I'm inspired.
But I was never going for that.
Tom Butler (33:44):
I was just trying to see if I could make it to Port
Townsend, washington, and soit's a cool side effect and I
think that what is very evidentI'm sure it's evident here as
I'm talking to you and I'm sureit was evident to everyone you
talked to that you were enjoyingyourself.
You didn't feel like there wasa burden on you to prove
(34:07):
something or anything like that.
This is just something that wasfulfilling for you to do.
Ken Reinke (34:14):
Well, indeed, you know, it's really funny.
I was in a restaurant inMontana having breakfast and
then struck up a conversationwith a couple that was having
breakfast next to me, and that'sbecause Herman's Hermits was on
.
They were playing Herman'sHermits, I mean, like that's
great for us ancient folks.
But they kept asking mequestions about, well, what do
(34:38):
you do if you get in trouble, anemergency situation?
And I mean, I don't know.
I just said you cross thatbridge when you come to it,
because you can't anticipateeverything.
You know that's impossible and,yeah, you know bad stuff is
going to happen and you justhave to deal with it as it
(35:00):
happens.
And it was really fun talking tothem, and I went outside when
we both left the restaurant atthe same time, and I went
outside and I'm getting my bikeready to go down this awesome
route and I didn't know that atthe time, though, of course.
But then the guy that I wastalking to comes back from his
(35:20):
car and he hands me some foldedmoney and he goes in case of an
emergency.
And I go I didn't even look atit, I just assumed it was a $20
bill and I go, I might buy anemergency beer with this and he
said you do what you want.
And then I looked they weregone.
(35:43):
I looked, it was a $100 billand then I realized, you know,
they were concerned aboutemergency situation and they
responded accordingly.
And I'm like now they're gone.
Oh wait, I you needed a bigger,bigger thanks than that.
Tom Butler (36:02):
Well, I'm sure they appreciated the comment.
So you did decide to put thisadventure into a book called the
Road Spoke Trepidation andTranquility on a Bicycle,
Odyssey, and in that book youmentioned that a good night's
(36:22):
rest is essential.
Can you talk more about that?
Ken Reinke (36:26):
I believe that to be true.
But when you're stealth camping, unless you've picked a crummy
spot, you're in the tent for 12hours and at first I could sleep
the whole 12 hours.
You know, early in the trip andthen later on you know I
probably wasn't sleeping 12hours, but I'm in the tent for
(36:47):
12 hours.
Well, that's a dang good rest,even if you've ridden your bike
70 or 80 miles or 100, I didthat once but I'm always getting
good rest.
I don't know if peopleotherwise.
You're in a campground, you'vegot Wi-Fi.
I don't know.
You stay on your computer.
Tom Butler (37:09):
You know that can't help I think that there is an
element of being so focused onthe destination that you can
forget to take care of yourself,and I think it's actually a
good thing for people to thinkof that.
If you know you need to rest,if you're on a trip like this
and you get to the point whereyou need to rest, then then rest
(37:31):
well, I I'm actuallyanti-destination, but I'm
retired, so you know I have lotsof time.
Ken Reinke (37:39):
but I find that, like in those first six or seven
days when your mind is tryingto tell you this is too much
that you're able to go, oh, myGod, that's so far.
I've only covered this much.
You can talk yourself out of it.
And so I'm all about gettingover that and then letting the
(38:03):
destination go.
And that's why I was able tosay in Jackson Mississippi oh,
another thousand miles to Denver, all right, so what?
And you get the destination.
It's not like then you count.
If you start calculating oh,denver, thousand miles, 50 miles
a day, and blah, blah, blah.
No, you're ruining your trip.
(38:24):
As far as I'm concerned, youare destroying the essence of
the trip.
So that's my take ondestination.
Tom Butler (38:34):
I love that.
Take for sure.
You talk about your limitationswhen it comes to climbing hills
and how that factors into atrip.
Can you share that here?
Ken Reinke (38:48):
Certainly.
The thing is because my legsare weaker from polio and my
left leg is worse than my right.
I cannot grind up a hill.
I can't stand up in the pedalsand I've never been able to Well
, maybe when I was a kid, but nolonger.
I cannot stand up in the pedals.
So I and the Surly has 30 speed.
(39:13):
So it's got some really goodgranny gears.
But when I'm at that bottomgear and there's nothing left, I
have to stop and get off thebike and push the bike to the
top of the hill and, yes, I walkmy bike quite a bit.
Tom Butler (39:30):
The other thing that I think about when you say that
is I imagine if you're going toa pretty steep grade and you're
in your lowest gear, I imaginethat you're going pretty slow.
And you're going pretty slowwith a bike that's pretty loaded
down.
Is that a dynamic?
Is it hard to keep the balancegoing with a bike that's so
(39:54):
loaded down at that slow speed?
Ken Reinke (39:56):
Yeah, yes it is.
You're absolutely right thatit's a problem.
And so on the steeper hills Ihave to step off earlier and
walk.
But the other thing is I cannotstart my bicycle on any upward
slope.
I have to be on level ground orpointing downhill.
So on the high hills, when I'mtrying to get over a pass, I
(40:22):
have to walk.
And then when I decide thatokay, I can try and ride again,
I have to go out into the roadand ride perpendicular across
the road to start and then turnuphill and you know, walking the
bike again.
It's just the way that I haveto approach hills.
I'm stuck with that.
(40:47):
So in essence, that's just onemore issue.
You know, I don't want to callthings problems, I want to call
them.
This is part of what's in mybook that things aren't problems
, that things aren't problems,they're situations, and you just
(41:11):
deal with them.
When you call them a problem,you start putting a negative
context on it and that just thatalso destroys the essence of
the trip.
Tom Butler (41:20):
Again, I love the fact and I think this comes back
to your mindset as anadventurer is that these are
things that you enjoy thechallenge of finding a solution
and the energy I bet that comesfrom when you've you've found a
way to overcome a challenge mybook is about more than a
(41:44):
bicycle book.
Ken Reinke (41:47):
It's a lifestyle book, but it is about how to get
out of your own way.
We live in a world thatsuggests that these situations
are problems and that adds thenegative load.
But that negative load is whatyou're putting in your own way.
Tom Butler (42:11):
If you know what I mean, you know you're making it
worse because you'reoverthinking the, that it's a
problem and it's never a problem, it's just a situation yeah,
you say that and I think thatthat is like a great outcome for
(42:32):
people reading the book is toreally hear that philosophy of
life, and have you always beensomeone that's sought out deeper
meanings to things?
Ken Reinke (42:45):
Yes, I mean, I've always lived in a world of what
exactly is this all about?
And trying to figure that out,and I this is.
I hope this doesn't sound tooweird, but I think giving things
meaning is the best stepbackwards, and that I don't know
(43:08):
.
Tom Butler (43:08):
I don't know if I can condense this you don't have
to condense it, Just yeah, justgo into it.
Ken Reinke (43:16):
So I had no intention of writing a book.
I think I've always had a bookin me, but I had no intention of
writing a book.
And I came back from Route 69and a very good friend of mine,
he said well, how did you do it?
How did you ride your bicycleacross the whole dang country at
69 years old, while the rest ofus are sitting watching our
(43:39):
televisions?
And I'm like, okay, so how didI do it?
And that's what I tried to workinto the book this idea that you
know we get in our own way andwe can do so much more than we
(44:00):
think we can, and our minds arewhat gets in our way, not our
circumstances, our minds.
So that's what I'm trying toaddress in that book.
It's actually I wrote it in thestyle of my favorite book,
which is Zen and the Art ofMotorcycle Maintenance, and that
(44:20):
book is pure genius.
I can't say mine's pure genius,but it's in that style.
I can't say mine's pure genius,but it's in that style, and
it's with his kind of approachto life, which turns out to be
more of an Asian kind ofapproach to life.
But neither he nor I are Asian.
Tom Butler (44:42):
I think that probably truth is truth, right,
mm-hmm?
Yes, so you've experiencedthings in your life where that
connection to the world is deep,and I think that's what you're
explaining.
Ken Reinke (45:07):
Well, and I honestly so.
I would love to say that it isso deep that it leaves the mind
out and it's a skill and,honestly, I've pursued it for a
long time and that's, I think,why I was able to ride my
bicycle across the country at 69.
I'm just trying to get thatinto the book that you know I am
(45:31):
the best example in the worldof how it's more now I'm going
to say mental, but it's moremental than it is physical.
I mean, if you saw me walk, youwouldn't even believe that I
could ride from here to Georgia,right, but our minds get in our
way and that's what I discussin the book.
How can we do that?
(45:52):
How can we keep that fromhappening too much?
Tom Butler (45:56):
I think that's a great framing of the book.
As I read it, what I was seeingwas there is, in the book, you
know, this question of how didyou do it.
You get to see kind of somepractical things that unfold,
you know, as you're making yourway along.
(46:16):
But then there is that elementof there is a mindset that you
approach adventure with that isyou know at.
You know, for you, I feel likeit's more about the mindset than
having a plan.
It's more about experiencingthe moment and overcoming things
(46:44):
in the moment than it is aboutknowing what's going on from
time to moment to moment.
Ken Reinke (46:50):
Well, absolutely, I mean I don't.
I honestly don't believe thatyou can plan all that well
anyway.
I mean, we do our vacations andstuff, but no, it is it's
living in the moment is the onlyway to go.
But we're never taught that.
And so that's what I'maddressing in my book, because I
(47:12):
mean when I meet somebody, I'mhappy to see them, and I don't
even know them.
You know, you can distill itdown to being pretty satisfied
most of the time.
Tom Butler (47:28):
I love it.
I'm loving this conversation.
I love that you're getting intokind of your view of the world
and things like that.
And so I'd like to go back towhere you talked about.
You know people giving youassistance along the way.
I think there's, you knowthere's several different ways
that people supported you.
(47:49):
I'm wondering, from aphilosophical perspective, what
you think about that connectionbetween people when people come
together to assist each otherlike that.
Ken Reinke (48:01):
I think that that's way more available to us than we
realize because we're makingsnap judgments all the time.
But if you're in the moment,right now, what is happening,
You're dealing with that and youknow I don't know.
(48:22):
So some people say maybe it'sme.
You know, I don't know, so somepeople say maybe it's me.
But the thing is I feel likeall of my routes have been
stippled with wonderful humanconnections, and it's usually
people I don't know, but it'sjust I don't know.
(48:43):
You can be more open if you'reliving in the moment.
I don't suffer much fear, oralmost none, which is part of
that living in the moment.
If you know that whateverhappens in this moment, you're
going to be able to deal with it, wow, bring it on deal with it.
Tom Butler (49:07):
Wow, bring it on.
I feel pretty confident thatyou would agree with the
statement that living in themoment like that makes a more
authentic connection possibleabsolutely it's.
Ken Reinke (49:17):
It's the only thing that makes a more authentic
connection possible to not showup with a ton of judgments.
I lived the normal life a longtime and I know what that's like
and it's hard to avoid becauseit's thrown at us from every
(49:40):
direction all the time.
In fact, I think most peoplewould just go what's this guy
talking about?
He must be an idiot.
But because the norm is so notgreat, if you ask me.
That's why I wrote that book,maybe to edge people.
Maybe somebody can read thatbook and get edged out of that
(50:03):
norm, and I'd love to think thatmy book would help anybody who
read it.
But it's well-reviewed onAmazon, you know.
So people who bother to write areview have mostly written good
ones, and I get connectionswith people a lot about the book
and I get to hear how it helpedthem, and that's exactly what I
(50:27):
was going for when I wrote thatbook.
Tom Butler (50:30):
Well, and good on you for putting that out there,
because I think that that's agreat message.
So thank you for doing that.
Ken Reinke (50:39):
Well, thank you for your close reading of the book.
I mean, I really appreciatethat and so your questions, you
know, are fantastic.
Tom Butler (50:50):
Well, thank you, that's awesome.
Okay, I want to ask you thisquestion Based on our dialogue
here.
I am so interested in yousharing your perspective on this
, and that's what does thefuture hold for you when it
comes to cycling?
Ken Reinke (51:09):
Okay, so I am definitely backing down the
ladder in terms of cycling.
I just set out this spring Iwas going to cross the country
one more time, but I set out andjust couldn't do it.
You know, it was just too much.
In fact I even want to say thatit wasn't fun.
(51:31):
Now I know how much mental goesinto that, but you know I can't
push off with my left leganymore, so I have a couple of
zero mile an hour crashes, youknow where you don't quite get
started and fall down.
Well, I don't need to be out inthe world doing that.
(51:51):
So I'm backing down the ladderso far that I'm even thinking
maybe an electric bike is in myfuture, so that I all I need is
help getting the started.
You know, the riding I don't.
I still don't think I'll haveany problem with, but that
getting started and stopping,but also with my scoliosis,
(52:14):
sleeping in a tent, getting offthe ground and stuff, all of
that has become more difficult.
Now would I love to go acrossthe country again.
Obviously, you know, thisspring I tried it and I made it
450 miles.
Obviously, you know, thisspring I tried it and I made it
450 miles.
But then I just rented a carand came home with my stuff.
Tom Butler (52:31):
Uh, you know, that's no longer in the stars for me
well, here's what I love aboutthis conversation with you, in
particular one is that, yourmindset being what it is, there
is a healthy aspect to yousaying you.
You know what.
I could try to force myself.
I could try to grit my teethand get through the pain, but
(52:55):
the truth of the matter is Iwant this to be something that
enhances my life, and at thispoint it doesn't feel like it's
enhancing my life.
Ken Reinke (53:06):
Well, I mean, that's really true.
I don't know.
So really, the true answer toyour question what's in the
future?
I don't know, and I'm going tocross that bridge when I come to
it.
Also, I can still ride around,we'll see.
We'll ride around, we'll see.
Tom Butler (53:28):
And so the other direction I want to go with this
is share with us how old youare now 73.
Okay, so at 73, kind ofconsidering some power assist or
considering maybe anotheradaptive form of cycling.
(53:49):
Talk to me about that.
Does that seem like a stepbackwards?
Does it not seem like the samekind of thing to you?
Ken Reinke (54:00):
Yeah, a little bit it does feel like a step
backwards, but it's time.
It's time for that and, uh,like, I have a hard time getting
my leg over my surly middle barand the seat, you know that's
gotten even, that's gottenharder, and so I think, well,
(54:22):
maybe I should just get a stepthrough bike, but that won't
solve the problem with nothaving the strength to push a
load.
So I think, no more loaded biketours and, frankly, can't
afford a supported tour, butmaybe some little supported
trips or something.
(54:42):
So, even around here, a lot oftimes I ride the same routes.
Can you imagine I mean riding ahundred miles a week how many
times I've been over the sameroutes here.
Having done that for years, Ialways look forward to if my
wife's going someplace.
She can take me and my bike anddrop me off so I can travel
(55:04):
some new routes.
So you know there's solutions.
Another thing, though I havedone some speaking engagements
about my book and stuff likethat, and one time a woman about
my age.
She was talking about herswimming coach way back when,
(55:25):
about her swimming coach wayback when, and she said that the
coach said it's 90% mental andthe other 10% is mental and I
love that because I used to sayit's 80% mental.
But now it is 100% mental sojust fun.
Tom Butler (55:44):
Well, I am asking you to do me a favor, and that
is keep me posted on yourdecision making as time goes on
here.
If you decide to get a bikethat has pedal assist, I'd love
for you to keep us updated onyour thinking with that and your
(56:05):
decision.
Would you do that for me?
Ken Reinke (56:07):
Sure, I'd be happy to.
I really enjoy your podcast andI like your approach to bicycle
as medicine or I forget how youput it as a medical device, as
a medical device.
I think it definitely is as amedical device.
Tom Butler (56:26):
I think it definitely is.
Well, ken, this has been so fun.
I was looking forward to thisand you just delivered a really
fun conversation, and I reallyappreciate that.
And I hope that.
(56:47):
I know I don't hope in yourcase.
I know that you, because theway you approach things, you're
going to find some really funways to keep active, maybe
discover cycling in a differentway or something like that, or
pedaling in a different way, andso I'm just looking forward to
seeing more about youradventures in the future.
Ken Reinke (57:03):
Well, thank you so much for your interest.
This has been fun for me.
Tom Butler (57:08):
Good, good, all right, thanks again, and we'll
talk again some other time.
Ken Reinke (57:14):
Excellent, bye now.
Tom Butler (57:24):
I'm so curious to see where Ken goes with his
cycling from here.
I'm even hopeful that cyclingover 60 will be able in some way
to play a role in Ken's cyclingfuture.
I keep thinking about what ittakes to just ride off without a
plan, like Ken did it.
It seems like one of thecalculations is that you can
rely on people being decent.
I feel we're being constantlypumped with fear tactics.
(57:45):
These days.
It seems like there's a constantstream of messages that the
world around us is extremelydangerous.
People being decent.
I feel we're being constantlypumped with fear tactics.
These days Seems like there's aconstant stream of messages
that the world around us isextremely dangerous and we need
to be saved from it.
Feels like that fear is beingused to control people.
And then you have theexperience of people like Ken,
who say that it's rare to meetsomeone who isn't interested in
being kind.
Maybe our neighbors aren't soscary and maybe, instead of
being afraid, we can focus onbeing kind and caring ourselves.
(58:08):
My hope is that all of us haveopportunities to interact with
someone like Ken on some journey, so that we have the
opportunity to be a friendlysource of support to someone
else.
I know that I'll be looking forthose kinds of interactions,
whether I'm on the bike or off,and remember, age is just a gear
change.
This is the Cycling Over 60 Podcast, season 3,
episode 31,.
An Adventurer's Mindset.
And I'm your host, tom Butler.
A couple of weeks ago I talkedabout plans to do the Destiny
(00:26):
Dozen ride.
One thing I learned is that theDozen is a baker's dozen, so it
is 12 of the hardest climbs inTacoma, washington, and a 13th
thrown in for fun.
It was a really fun event.
Leon Nettles, executive directorof Second Cycle, let out the
group I was in.
This group was known as thequote fun group.
Leon was riding an electriccargo bike with who knows how
(00:50):
much equipment on it.
It was fitted with twobatteries and I bet he needed
all the power he had.
One accessory on the bike was afairly good-sized Bluetooth
speaker, so when we hit a hill,riders could get inspired by a
hill climb-specific playlist.
By the way, if you're lookingfor a playlist to blast from a
speaker on your bike, you cansearch Spotify for Destiny Dozen
(01:11):
24 under the playlist section.
I'm not a big fan of playingmusic when riding, but it worked
with the party atmosphere ofthe Destiny Dozen ride.
It is possible that myrejection of music on a ride
could just be my age.
The Destiny Dozen might havebeen the hardest thing I've done
on a bike.
The only thing that might havebeen tougher was climbing 6,559
(01:34):
feet over Washington Pass.
The ride over the pass was along, steady climb.
The Destiny Dozen was short,really steep hills.
I managed to do 10 of the 13climbs.
On the other three I walkedabout halfway up.
One climb was horrificcobblestones.
I think I might have been ableto make that climb if it had
(01:54):
been a normal road, but I'm notsure.
I was going really slowly upthe hills and I just couldn't
keep the bike under control onthe cobblestones.
On the other two that I didn'tmake, my heart rate got high
enough for me to stop.
One of the hills had a sectionwith a 26% grade.
It was just a small section,but I was unable to get past it.
It was a little strange becauseI felt like I got better as the
(02:15):
day went on with respect tomanaging my effort.
For one thing, I stayed towardthe back of the group.
That allowed me to avoid peoplepassing me.
Plus, by the time I got to themiddle of the climb, people who
were going to stop had alreadystepped off and were pulled to
the side.
I was riding the Roubaix, so mylowest gear option was 34-34.
(02:36):
I think that should be lowenough, but there were plenty of
people who had mountain bikesor other setups with lower gear
options.
I did feel like I paced myselfpretty well throughout the day.
The climbs got somewhat easierand I did the last seven hills
in a row.
I did much better on the longerclimbs that weren't so steep, I
would have to say.
After only the second hill Itexted people saying that I made
(02:58):
a mistake, so it took a bit forme to convince myself to keep
going.
Being in the fun group meantthat we rode slower between
hills.
However, after the last hillthe pace picked up dramatically
back to second cycle.
However, after the last hillthe pace picked up dramatically
back to the finish area, whichwas second cycle in Tacoma,
where it had started from.
I was pleased that I had enoughin my legs that I was able to
(03:20):
keep up what is a pretty goodpace for me all the way to the
end.
I was also pleased that I tookoff the next day after the ride
and then did a really lightrecovery ride two days later and
I ended up being fine.
So my recovery from what waspretty intense seemed really
good.
I thought I was going to havesome crampings the night after
(03:40):
the ride, but fortunately thatdid not happen.
A big question for me is will Ido it again next year?
I really did like the challengeof it, so I think there's a
good chance that I will do itagain.
One thing is I never felt likeanyone looked down on me for
going slow or even when I had towalk.
It really was a greatatmosphere.
I'll have to see how I feelcoming up to it next year.
(04:03):
One thing I'm happy to sharewith everyone is that Cycling
Over 60 has become an affiliatewith Cycling Without Age
recently.
I believe there's somethingincredibly wholesome about the
Cycling Without Age effort.
If you don't know about CyclingWithout Age, you can get a lot
of information from theirwebsite at cyclingwithoutageorg.
For me, a really great optionis to watch a series on PBS
(04:25):
called Joy Ride.
You can watch the seriesthrough the PBS website or on
YouTube.
I will put links to both ofthese.
Cycling Over 60 is going to behelping get mechanical support
and also training people tooperate the tri-shaws for an
organization here in Tacoma,washington.
Hopefully we can be a resourcefor the entire region at some
(04:46):
point If you watch the PBSfootage about the program, you
can see the impact of givingpeople with limited mobility a
ride.
For me, this has the potentialof bringing an aspect of service
to Cycling Over 60, and I'mlooking forward to growing our
efforts to support localprograms.
(05:12):
Because of the fine people atWarm Showers, I've had some
great conversations to sharewith you here on the podcast
lately this week I'm joined byKen Reinky, who has inspired me
as much as anyone could.
There are just some people thatapproach life as an adventure.
Ken is definitely one of them.
As you will hear, he has takenon life challenges despite some
significant physical limitations.
(05:32):
Here's our discussion.
For the rest of my life, I wantto do what it takes to
challenge myself, to stay active, and my guest today I see as a
real model for that kind ofdetermination.
Ken Reinke, thank you forjoining me today.
Ken Reinke (05:48):
Oh, my pleasure.
Tom Butler (05:50):
As I said, you have modeled a willingness to take on
physical challenges and I'mreally happy for people to hear
you share your story Now.
When you were too young toremember you were diagnosed with
polio and I'm wondering if youtalk about how that shaped your
life in respect to being active.
Ken Reinke (06:12):
Well, I've always lived with a substantial limp.
That has been my entire life,and so that has actually
probably been to my advantage,because I didn't have to change
anything.
I had to grow into this andeven when I was really young, I
(06:36):
played soccer before school, ingrade school, and we played
baseball and I did all thosethings and I don't remember that
it was anything special for me.
I just approached it with thatyoung person uh, deliverateness.
Tom Butler (06:55):
Do you feel like your family kind of helped you
have that perspective that thiswas just something to you know
to keep on living with andthings like that?
Ken Reinke (07:07):
Oh, it's hard to tell, it's hard for me to tell
on that we just went along asthough nothing was unusual.
But I did have to go.
You know, I wore brace shoesback then and stuff like that,
so that there was nothing normalabout that, but my parents
didn't act like anything wastotally unusual.
Tom Butler (07:30):
Now, how about your earliest memories of the bicycle
?
When you think about that, whatcomes to mind?
Ken Reinke (07:35):
Probably when I was about eight or nine years old,
my father found a bicycle in aditch what was left of a bicycle
in a ditch and he actuallyassembled that for me made that
bicycle work, and I mean I lovedit right away.
Tom Butler (07:54):
Nice, well, that's fantastic Good for your dad to
do that, Indeed.
So you talked about how youjust kept going, you know,
despite having, you know, abrace on and things like that.
Do you see that you did have toovercome some obstacles because
(08:15):
of that?
And if so, did that shape thatovercoming obstacles earlier in
life can shape your ability totake on different difficult
things later overcoming?
Ken Reinke (08:24):
obstacles earlier in life can shape your ability to
take on different difficultthings later.
Well, I have to assume that itdid.
Eventually, I could discoverthat it was an advantage that I
didn't let it stop me from doingmuch, but it helped me, yes, I
think, to overcome obstacles ingeneral.
Tom Butler (08:43):
As you got older.
How did your cycling change?
Did you do more of it?
Did you back off from it atsome point, or have you been
pretty consistent?
Ken Reinke (08:53):
I've been somewhat consistent, depending on what I
was doing.
I've lived a checkered life ofdifferent jobs and stuff like
that and moving around ofdifferent jobs and stuff like
that, and moving around Fastforward to my 60s, because after
all, we're talking aboutcycling after 60.
And I was off and on bikes allthe rest of my life.
(09:16):
But since I turned 60, my limphas gotten worse.
My disability from polio is alittle more pronounced now.
I cannot walk without a cane ora walker.
But since bike riding isnon-weight bearing, my scoliosis
(09:40):
isn't so affected.
You know, having limped mywhole life, I have a curvature
that's painful, but I can get onmy bike without pain and ride,
and that's part of the reasonfor these long distance cycling
tours.
Tom Butler (09:56):
Nice, that's very cool.
And then before 60, I thinksimply in your 40s, you were
diagnosed with diabetes and I'mwondering if you could talk
about your reaction to thatdiagnosis.
Ken Reinke (10:14):
Well, it certainly wasn't good.
I was in my 40s, I didn't evenknow what diabetes was.
And then all of a sudden thingshave changed and I have to go
to the doctor and they're like,well, you know, you're a sweet
guy, is what they the way theyput it?
And I'm like, well, what doesthat mean?
And then, well, you're diabetic.
(10:35):
I had no idea and so you knowit was a big learning curve,
adjusting on medications andblood sugar and stuff like that.
But I wasn't riding my bike alot during that era.
I was working in Alaska andthen in the winters, when I left
(10:56):
Alaska, I would travel overseas, in foreign countries, backpack
traveling.
So I've always been movingaround.
But eventually I had to facethe diabetes and change things.
It's a lifestyle change.
Tom Butler (11:17):
Right?
Were they prescribing insulinfor you immediately, or did that
come about over time?
Ken Reinke (11:26):
uh, no, um, first of all, they start you off with
oral medications and stuff likethat, and, uh, eventually, I had
enough trouble with some ofthose.
I I honestly would recommendpeople go straight to insulin,
because it's a hormone, it's nota drug, and it's very clean,
(11:52):
without side effects.
I think insulin is a better wayto go.
So eventually, though, Igraduated to that, and so for
the last 25 years, it's justbeen insulin.
Tom Butler (12:05):
Gotcha, you made what I think is kind of a fun
comment where you said my neuralpathways being what they are.
I started to think about theidea of crossing the country by
bicycle.
I'm curious about thatstatement.
What do you mean by my neuralpathways being what they are?
Ken Reinke (12:27):
Because for me, once I was retired and I'm riding my
bike all the time, it's justautomatic.
Oh, I wonder if I can make itacross the country, and it's
like something that I can't evenhelp it.
You know, it's automatic.
And then that led to Route 67.
Tom Butler (12:51):
So you have.
I think I'm picking up anadventurer's mindset.
Is that fair to say?
Ken Reinke (12:58):
Yeah, almost to a crippling amount, because I've
actually hitchhiked over 16,000miles in the United States in my
youth and I've traveled to 30countries backpack traveling and
I, just like the developingcountries, better Forget Europe,
(13:22):
you know.
Give me Indonesia.
So that kind of thing.
Yeah, I'm an adventurer.
Tom Butler (13:31):
Nice, talk about Route 67.
Ken Reinke (13:36):
Route 67 was the natural progression of that
inability to control my thinkingon things and it just came on
automatically.
I'm like, okay, maybe I readsome about going to San Diego,
stay south, don't fight theweather.
And so Route 67, it just cameon naturally.
(14:03):
And even my wife said, well, itseems kind of far, but I don't
know.
It was just the natural nextstep and I learned about routes
through.
I joined Adventure CyclingAssociation and I can't say
(14:24):
enough good about their routemaps and you get to know from
the beginning.
Their maps are broken into30-mile sections and you get to
know in advance what's coming upand it might well be nothing,
but you'll know that also.
So those maps made Route 67.
(14:49):
I call it Route 67 because Iwas 67 years old, but that made
that route easy in terms of youknow planning what roads to take
and stuff like that.
Highly recommend that forfirst-time cross-country bikers.
So where were you starting?
At my house.
(15:10):
I live right here in NorthFlorida.
I live in Hawthorne, florida.
So no, I didn't go over to theEast Coast and dip my tire or
anything.
I just left from my house andthe southern tier left from my
house and the southern tier,which is what that route is
called to San Diego is onlyabout 12 miles from my house.
Tom Butler (15:35):
So you talked about Adventure Cycling Association
connecting with them.
I had an opportunity to talkwith their executive director
with their executive director,jen O'Dell, and that was on
November 16th 2023.
So I do encourage people to goback and listen to that, because
it's a fantastic organization.
(15:56):
And so when you started doingthat, did you?
It sounds like that was alearning experience when you
started out, were you prettycomfortable with having a lot of
unknowns, or did you feel likeyou pretty much had everything
locked in?
Ken Reinke (16:10):
No, I am extremely comfortable with unknowns and
that's why all that hitchhikingback when and the travel to
foreign countries.
No, I don't have any problemwith unknowns.
In fact, here everybody more orless speaks English.
So now other unknowns like howwas the diabetes going to affect
(16:34):
me and could I actually make it?
Is it completely crazy?
But I was riding a lot, I wasriding.
I could ride 30 miles in themorning and I was riding 100
miles a week and that's what ledinto okay, let's give it a go.
I mean, I wasn't riding aloaded bike.
(16:55):
That was one of the things whenI pulled out of on all of my
bike, cross-country biking.
I pull out of my carport with50 pounds of gear on my bicycle
and I have a Surly long haultrucker and it's excellent for
carrying heavy weights and it'sgot 30 speeds, so it could
(17:15):
really help me get up the rises,the hills.
Tom Butler (17:21):
And you were relying a lot on your backpacking, I
think, in knowing how to campand what to take and even how to
keep things light, things likethat seems like would have been
something you were well familiarwith.
Ken Reinke (17:37):
Well, I did do research and there's a lot of it
online.
There's a lot of stuff onlineand there's the ones that you
know count every ounce becauseyou have to carry every ounce to
the top of that next hill.
I'm not quite that fanaticabout it.
(17:57):
I'm like if I need it, I needit.
I'm gonna take it and manage toget up that hill.
Tom Butler (18:05):
Nice, and then you chose April Fool's Day 2021 to
start another trip.
So tell me why you decided tohit the road again.
Ken Reinke (18:28):
I did the San Diego route.
That was about 3000 miles, andthen that during the spring of
whatever year that was, and thenI did a 900 mile trip down to
Key West and back from my housethat winter.
But then COVID hit and I tookthat year off because I was
finding it difficult even tofill water bottles, you know.
(18:48):
And I took that year off.
But then when that let up, Icouldn't help it again.
I was addicted and I'm going,and I'm going to hit try to go
to my friend's house in nearSeattle, and so, and then I had
to do that without routeestablished because I only
(19:10):
rarely incurred any routes fromAdventure Cycling Association.
I think I was on thetranscontinental route for about
100 miles or so, otherwise Ihad to make up my own routes and
along the way I had waypoints.
You know, I had friends inMississippi and some people in
(19:34):
Denver, and then I wanted tostop at the Adventure Cycling
Association.
So those were three waypointsand it was just figuring out the
in-between and I love maps, soI was, was, you know, good at it
so how did that play out?
Tom Butler (19:51):
was that like every few days you picked routes for
the next three days or were youlike day to day?
What?
What were you doing in thatrespect?
Ken Reinke (20:00):
well.
So I got paper maps and I usedgoogle maps bicycle Now in towns
and between towns and stufflike that.
It's in big cities especially.
It's great, it is a great thing, but it's not so great out in
(20:23):
the country and it took me overa couple bridges that weren't
there and stuff like that.
So, but that's all part of allpart of the adventure of it and
so, yeah, okay, well, thisbridge isn't here.
I guess I got to find anotherroute.
Tom Butler (20:41):
So it was yeah, if I was reading correctly that, on
the fly problem solving, did youlike embrace that with what you
called Route 69?
You called Route 67 becauseyou're 67 and then Route 69.
Was that really a big part ofit was to embrace that unknown
(21:06):
route, that challenge or thatadventure of planning things out
and having to overcome maybesomething like a bridge out.
Ken Reinke (21:16):
Absolutely.
To me.
That's the spice of crosscountry traveling, especially
without an established route.
Yes, I got drowned out of mytent one night.
I mean, stuff happens and youhave to deal with it.
But mostly I can deal with thatkind of stuff with alacrity.
It's like, ok, this is what,this is what's happening now,
(21:39):
deal with it.
Route 69.
You know, one of the reasons Istarted it on April 1st, april,
fool's Day, is that you know itwas a little bit crazier than
even the first trip acrosscountry.
It was two years crazier, youknow, two years older, and it
(22:01):
was about 700 miles further thanthat first one.
But I can't, it's difficult toexplain.
When you first start off, thefirst six days or so I spend my
time talking myself into notquitting Because it is hard and
(22:24):
I stealth camp so I never knowwhere I'm going to spend the
night, which I like that, but itdoes make it a little more
difficult.
But then, once you get over ahump, there's a hump that you
have that probably every crosscountry cyclist has to get over.
I don't know that hump and Iwas at my friend's house in
(22:48):
Mississippi and I look and I go.
You know Denver's anotherthousand miles.
It was meaningless to me.
Okay, let's go A thousand miles, all right.
Tom Butler (23:03):
So what let's go.
And then, where did you end upon that route?
What was your final destinationon that route?
Ken Reinke (23:09):
Well, I wrote a book about that, and what I talked
about was I had a friend in PortTownsend, washington, so it's
just a little past Seattle andso I said, well, I'm going to
ride my bike over to my friend'shouse.
It just happens to be 3,000plus miles away.
Tom Butler (23:30):
Well, I love Port Townsend.
By the way, we actually justdid a camping trip not long ago
where we rode part of theOlympic Discovery Trail.
Ken Reinke (23:42):
I read about that yeah.
Tom Butler (23:44):
And so that area, I think that's a fantastic place,
I think, to wrap up a hugeadventure across the country.
Ken Reinke (23:54):
Yeah, definitely, and I was in Port Townsend for
like five days and every day wassunny.
It was a really, reallywonderful end to my trip.
Tom Butler (24:05):
Nice.
So here you are, at 69 yearsold.
You have dealt with the effectsof polio for a long time.
You're an insulin-dependentdiabetic.
Did you get any pushback fromfamily?
Ken Reinke (24:20):
No, not really, because I mentioned that.
My wife said, oh, that's kindof far.
My wife said, oh, that's kindof far, but no, I'd already done
Route 67.
That was 3,000 miles, so thiswas just a small bit crazier.
No, I had some friends tell mewell, you know, if you get down
(24:41):
the road we'll come and get you.
You know, you decide to quit,we'll come and get you.
Tom Butler (24:47):
So how about your doctor?
Did your doctor is?
Are they fully medical staff,fully on board with with these
adventures?
Ken Reinke (24:56):
I wouldn't know no, I know I don't mess with that so
much, of course would.
Would you know?
Would anyone think that a69-year-old riding 3,000 miles
on a bicycle be a good idea?
Who could approve of that?
Tom Butler (25:17):
Well, you know, I think that is an excellent
observation, and one of thethings that I've become more
focused on recently is theaspect of a bicycle as a medical
device.
The truth of the matter is I amsure that you're you know, when
you're riding a hundred miles aweek, I mean that was having
(25:40):
just all kinds of benefits foryou, and I think that probably
medical professionals arerealizing more and more just how
valuable that kind of activityis.
Ken Reinke (25:53):
Oh yeah, I'm sure of it.
You know, I just love ridingthe bike.
And did I mention that with thescoliosis?
The bicycle is not weightbearing.
It's not a weight bearingmachine.
I mean a weight bearing way ofexercising, and so that takes
all the stress off of my back.
(26:13):
I mean, I more or less can'twalk very well now because of my
back, not because of my polio,but I can ride that bike.
Tom Butler (26:24):
That's fantastic.
You talk about stealth camping.
I'm not really familiar withthat term.
What does that refer to?
Ken Reinke (26:33):
So I am an inveterate stealth camper.
I ride into the evening andthen around 6 pm, I look for a
place to hide out, whether I'min the woods, out in the woods
or in a town.
Out, whether I'm in the woods,out in the woods or in a town.
(26:54):
And by 7 pm I'm looking alittle more desperately for a
good hideout.
I can't otherwise afford tomake a trip like that.
No, it's all stealth camping.
And when I'm in small townsI'll look for churches with no
houses behind them and then gobehind that church and put my
little one-man tent up.
If I'm in the woods, that's nota problem.
(27:16):
And when you're out in theWestern vacant states, nobody
cares.
You know, you pull a little offthe roads, throw your tent up,
nobody cares.
I've done that for all of mytrips.
And then every now and then,though, obviously, you need to
pull into a motel somewhere.
Or if I saw a big head ofstorms coming on my radar app,
(27:41):
I'll just get in a motel.
There's no sense fighting that.
Tom Butler (27:46):
Did you ever get kicked out of a place?
Did anybody come say, hey, youcan't camp here.
Or was it pretty consistentthat you could rely on it?
Ken Reinke (27:55):
Part of it is relying on my judgment of it,
which is pretty good.
But yes, one time I got kickedout from behind a church.
I always tell people who areinterested in stealth camping
don't camp behind churches onSaturday night because people
need to show up pretty early onSunday morning.
(28:16):
But this was a Friday night andthe guy was just checking the
grounds and I was all set upbehind there and it was like a
putting green.
It was a wonderful spot.
And then he called somebody andafter some conversation they
(28:38):
just said they suggested I moveon.
Tom Butler (28:41):
Okay, so Christians out there, I'm just going to say
, you know, I don't feel likethat's a great representation
kicking someone who's 69 outfrom a tent in the back of your
church, but you know who am I tojudge?
But still.
Ken Reinke (28:58):
Well, indeed, I mean , you know, for whatever reason,
they may have had vandalism inthe past or something I don't
know, and I didn't expect themto explain that to me, because,
after all, I was the one takingadvantage of this place.
The problem with that, though,was it was pretty close to dark
(29:19):
and virtually impossible to findanother place going down the
road, and I ended up in a prettynot nice spot, and, besides, I
can't push my bicycle through alot of brush.
My legs just aren't strongenough.
So, like always, I'm lookingfor even if there's woods, I'm
(29:41):
looking for a road that crossesthe ditch.
No mailboxes, you know it's alittle bit scientific.
No mailboxes, you know it's alittle bit scientific.
And then the tire tracks and soforth, so all those come into
my judgment on these stealthcamping things.
Tom Butler (30:00):
I'm always curious about the social element there
and I'm imagining that you hadan opportunity to interact with
a lot of people.
I'm curious if you hadinteractions that were memorable
with people when you talkedabout your age and what you were
doing and all of that.
Ken Reinke (30:20):
Indeed, an old man riding up on a loaded bike opens
people up, you know, there'snothing to be afraid of, and it
just opens people up andeverybody is curious and mostly
kind and generous.
(30:40):
Because I would have people,you know, because I was always
up.
You know, I was always up andI'd meet somebody and it's fun
to talk to them.
And I would be alone for verylong stretches of time.
But one of the things that Isay is alone is not lonely,
(31:03):
loneliness is a state of mind.
Being alone is a state of being.
You know, I'd be alone and thenI'm fine with that, but then
I'd have somebody to talk to andI'd be enthusiastic, and then
they'd hand me 20 bucks and it'slike, well, it's not, I don't
like taking money from people,but in a way it's their way of
(31:28):
participating and so, okay, sureyou know.
And then down the road I'd go.
So I had lots and lots of verygood encounters, lunches bought
for me, and when I was up on theCross America route even up
there, where they see lots ofcyclists, even up there, where
(32:00):
they see lots of cyclists therewere a number of times that I
went to pay for my lunch andthey would say it's been covered
and that's somebody, that's afew people that I never even
spoke with, and so there's a lotof good people out there and
you know there's a few not sogood ones, and thank God they're
rare.
When I was up in northern Idahoand that's anti-government,
skinhead country, I don't knowif you can see that I was in a
(32:25):
restaurant having breakfast andthis guy sat down next to me and
it was not a friendly, it wasan interrogation and it was a
little bit frightening becausethen I got to leave this and go
down the road and here's thisreally odd person who feels
threatened by me.
You know, being in that area, Idon't know, I don't know, but
(32:49):
that was really one of the worstof them.
Most people were friendly andkind by far.
Tom Butler (33:00):
Well, I think it's an awesome observation.
You know that that was rare.
You know that's encouraging,that that's rare, and I think
it's also really powerful thatpeople were moved, Like you said
, they wanted to take part inthis journey that you were
having and I think that reallyrepresents them being moved by
(33:23):
hearing about your experience.
Ken Reinke (33:25):
Well, there's no question that my activity was
inspiring to almost everyone Ispoke to and they usually said
that.
They usually came around andsaid, wow, I'm inspired.
But I was never going for that.
Tom Butler (33:44):
I was just trying to see if I could make it to Port
Townsend, washington, and soit's a cool side effect and I
think that what is very evidentI'm sure it's evident here as
I'm talking to you and I'm sureit was evident to everyone you
talked to that you were enjoyingyourself.
You didn't feel like there wasa burden on you to prove
(34:07):
something or anything like that.
This is just something that wasfulfilling for you to do.
Ken Reinke (34:14):
Well, indeed, you know, it's really funny.
I was in a restaurant inMontana having breakfast and
then struck up a conversationwith a couple that was having
breakfast next to me, and that'sbecause Herman's Hermits was on
.
They were playing Herman'sHermits, I mean, like that's
great for us ancient folks.
But they kept asking mequestions about, well, what do
(34:38):
you do if you get in trouble, anemergency situation?
And I mean, I don't know.
I just said you cross thatbridge when you come to it,
because you can't anticipateeverything.
You know that's impossible and,yeah, you know bad stuff is
going to happen and you justhave to deal with it as it
(35:00):
happens.
And it was really fun talking tothem, and I went outside when
we both left the restaurant atthe same time, and I went
outside and I'm getting my bikeready to go down this awesome
route and I didn't know that atthe time, though, of course.
But then the guy that I wastalking to comes back from his
(35:20):
car and he hands me some foldedmoney and he goes in case of an
emergency.
And I go I didn't even look atit, I just assumed it was a $20
bill and I go, I might buy anemergency beer with this and he
said you do what you want.
And then I looked they weregone.
(35:43):
I looked, it was a $100 billand then I realized, you know,
they were concerned aboutemergency situation and they
responded accordingly.
And I'm like now they're gone.
Oh wait, I you needed a bigger,bigger thanks than that.
Tom Butler (36:02):
Well, I'm sure they appreciated the comment.
So you did decide to put thisadventure into a book called the
Road Spoke Trepidation andTranquility on a Bicycle,
Odyssey, and in that book youmentioned that a good night's
(36:22):
rest is essential.
Can you talk more about that?
Ken Reinke (36:26):
I believe that to be true.
But when you're stealth camping, unless you've picked a crummy
spot, you're in the tent for 12hours and at first I could sleep
the whole 12 hours.
You know, early in the trip andthen later on you know I
probably wasn't sleeping 12hours, but I'm in the tent for
(36:47):
12 hours.
Well, that's a dang good rest,even if you've ridden your bike
70 or 80 miles or 100, I didthat once but I'm always getting
good rest.
I don't know if peopleotherwise.
You're in a campground, you'vegot Wi-Fi.
I don't know.
You stay on your computer.
Tom Butler (37:09):
You know that can't help I think that there is an
element of being so focused onthe destination that you can
forget to take care of yourself,and I think it's actually a
good thing for people to thinkof that.
If you know you need to rest,if you're on a trip like this
and you get to the point whereyou need to rest, then then rest
(37:31):
well, I I'm actuallyanti-destination, but I'm
retired, so you know I have lotsof time.
Ken Reinke (37:39):
but I find that, like in those first six or seven
days when your mind is tryingto tell you this is too much
that you're able to go, oh, myGod, that's so far.
I've only covered this much.
You can talk yourself out of it.
And so I'm all about gettingover that and then letting the
(38:03):
destination go.
And that's why I was able tosay in Jackson Mississippi oh,
another thousand miles to Denver, all right, so what?
And you get the destination.
It's not like then you count.
If you start calculating oh,denver, thousand miles, 50 miles
a day, and blah, blah, blah.
No, you're ruining your trip.
(38:24):
As far as I'm concerned, youare destroying the essence of
the trip.
So that's my take ondestination.
Tom Butler (38:34):
I love that.
Take for sure.
You talk about your limitationswhen it comes to climbing hills
and how that factors into atrip.
Can you share that here?
Ken Reinke (38:48):
Certainly.
The thing is because my legsare weaker from polio and my
left leg is worse than my right.
I cannot grind up a hill.
I can't stand up in the pedalsand I've never been able to Well
, maybe when I was a kid, but nolonger.
I cannot stand up in the pedals.
So I and the Surly has 30 speed.
(39:13):
So it's got some really goodgranny gears.
But when I'm at that bottomgear and there's nothing left, I
have to stop and get off thebike and push the bike to the
top of the hill and, yes, I walkmy bike quite a bit.
Tom Butler (39:30):
The other thing that I think about when you say that
is I imagine if you're going toa pretty steep grade and you're
in your lowest gear, I imaginethat you're going pretty slow.
And you're going pretty slowwith a bike that's pretty loaded
down.
Is that a dynamic?
Is it hard to keep the balancegoing with a bike that's so
(39:54):
loaded down at that slow speed?
Ken Reinke (39:56):
Yeah, yes it is.
You're absolutely right thatit's a problem.
And so on the steeper hills Ihave to step off earlier and
walk.
But the other thing is I cannotstart my bicycle on any upward
slope.
I have to be on level ground orpointing downhill.
So on the high hills, when I'mtrying to get over a pass, I
(40:22):
have to walk.
And then when I decide thatokay, I can try and ride again,
I have to go out into the roadand ride perpendicular across
the road to start and then turnuphill and you know, walking the
bike again.
It's just the way that I haveto approach hills.
I'm stuck with that.
(40:47):
So in essence, that's just onemore issue.
You know, I don't want to callthings problems, I want to call
them.
This is part of what's in mybook that things aren't problems
, that things aren't problems,they're situations, and you just
(41:11):
deal with them.
When you call them a problem,you start putting a negative
context on it and that just thatalso destroys the essence of
the trip.
Tom Butler (41:20):
Again, I love the fact and I think this comes back
to your mindset as anadventurer is that these are
things that you enjoy thechallenge of finding a solution
and the energy I bet that comesfrom when you've you've found a
way to overcome a challenge mybook is about more than a
(41:44):
bicycle book.
Ken Reinke (41:47):
It's a lifestyle book, but it is about how to get
out of your own way.
We live in a world thatsuggests that these situations
are problems and that adds thenegative load.
But that negative load is whatyou're putting in your own way.
Tom Butler (42:11):
If you know what I mean, you know you're making it
worse because you'reoverthinking the, that it's a
problem and it's never a problem, it's just a situation yeah,
you say that and I think thatthat is like a great outcome for
(42:32):
people reading the book is toreally hear that philosophy of
life, and have you always beensomeone that's sought out deeper
meanings to things?
Ken Reinke (42:45):
Yes, I mean, I've always lived in a world of what
exactly is this all about?
And trying to figure that out,and I this is.
I hope this doesn't sound tooweird, but I think giving things
meaning is the best stepbackwards, and that I don't know
(43:08):
.
Tom Butler (43:08):
I don't know if I can condense this you don't have
to condense it, Just yeah, justgo into it.
Ken Reinke (43:16):
So I had no intention of writing a book.
I think I've always had a bookin me, but I had no intention of
writing a book.
And I came back from Route 69and a very good friend of mine,
he said well, how did you do it?
How did you ride your bicycleacross the whole dang country at
69 years old, while the rest ofus are sitting watching our
(43:39):
televisions?
And I'm like, okay, so how didI do it?
And that's what I tried to workinto the book this idea that you
know we get in our own way andwe can do so much more than we
(44:00):
think we can, and our minds arewhat gets in our way, not our
circumstances, our minds.
So that's what I'm trying toaddress in that book.
It's actually I wrote it in thestyle of my favorite book,
which is Zen and the Art ofMotorcycle Maintenance, and that
(44:20):
book is pure genius.
I can't say mine's pure genius,but it's in that style.
I can't say mine's pure genius,but it's in that style, and
it's with his kind of approachto life, which turns out to be
more of an Asian kind ofapproach to life.
But neither he nor I are Asian.
Tom Butler (44:42):
I think that probably truth is truth, right,
mm-hmm?
Yes, so you've experiencedthings in your life where that
connection to the world is deep,and I think that's what you're
explaining.
Ken Reinke (45:07):
Well, and I honestly so.
I would love to say that it isso deep that it leaves the mind
out and it's a skill and,honestly, I've pursued it for a
long time and that's, I think,why I was able to ride my
bicycle across the country at 69.
I'm just trying to get thatinto the book that you know I am
(45:31):
the best example in the worldof how it's more now I'm going
to say mental, but it's moremental than it is physical.
I mean, if you saw me walk, youwouldn't even believe that I
could ride from here to Georgia,right, but our minds get in our
way and that's what I discussin the book.
How can we do that?
(45:52):
How can we keep that fromhappening too much?
Tom Butler (45:56):
I think that's a great framing of the book.
As I read it, what I was seeingwas there is, in the book, you
know, this question of how didyou do it.
You get to see kind of somepractical things that unfold,
you know, as you're making yourway along.
(46:16):
But then there is that elementof there is a mindset that you
approach adventure with that isyou know at.
You know, for you, I feel likeit's more about the mindset than
having a plan.
It's more about experiencingthe moment and overcoming things
(46:44):
in the moment than it is aboutknowing what's going on from
time to moment to moment.
Ken Reinke (46:50):
Well, absolutely, I mean I don't.
I honestly don't believe thatyou can plan all that well
anyway.
I mean, we do our vacations andstuff, but no, it is it's
living in the moment is the onlyway to go.
But we're never taught that.
And so that's what I'maddressing in my book, because I
(47:12):
mean when I meet somebody, I'mhappy to see them, and I don't
even know them.
You know, you can distill itdown to being pretty satisfied
most of the time.
Tom Butler (47:28):
I love it.
I'm loving this conversation.
I love that you're getting intokind of your view of the world
and things like that.
And so I'd like to go back towhere you talked about.
You know people giving youassistance along the way.
I think there's, you knowthere's several different ways
that people supported you.
(47:49):
I'm wondering, from aphilosophical perspective, what
you think about that connectionbetween people when people come
together to assist each otherlike that.
Ken Reinke (48:01):
I think that that's way more available to us than we
realize because we're makingsnap judgments all the time.
But if you're in the moment,right now, what is happening,
You're dealing with that and youknow I don't know.
(48:22):
So some people say maybe it'sme.
You know, I don't know, so somepeople say maybe it's me.
But the thing is I feel likeall of my routes have been
stippled with wonderful humanconnections, and it's usually
people I don't know, but it'sjust I don't know.
(48:43):
You can be more open if you'reliving in the moment.
I don't suffer much fear, oralmost none, which is part of
that living in the moment.
If you know that whateverhappens in this moment, you're
going to be able to deal with it, wow, bring it on deal with it.
Tom Butler (49:07):
Wow, bring it on.
I feel pretty confident thatyou would agree with the
statement that living in themoment like that makes a more
authentic connection possibleabsolutely it's.
Ken Reinke (49:17):
It's the only thing that makes a more authentic
connection possible to not showup with a ton of judgments.
I lived the normal life a longtime and I know what that's like
and it's hard to avoid becauseit's thrown at us from every
(49:40):
direction all the time.
In fact, I think most peoplewould just go what's this guy
talking about?
He must be an idiot.
But because the norm is so notgreat, if you ask me.
That's why I wrote that book,maybe to edge people.
Maybe somebody can read thatbook and get edged out of that
(50:03):
norm, and I'd love to think thatmy book would help anybody who
read it.
But it's well-reviewed onAmazon, you know.
So people who bother to write areview have mostly written good
ones, and I get connectionswith people a lot about the book
and I get to hear how it helpedthem, and that's exactly what I
(50:27):
was going for when I wrote thatbook.
Tom Butler (50:30):
Well, and good on you for putting that out there,
because I think that that's agreat message.
So thank you for doing that.
Ken Reinke (50:39):
Well, thank you for your close reading of the book.
I mean, I really appreciatethat and so your questions, you
know, are fantastic.
Tom Butler (50:50):
Well, thank you, that's awesome.
Okay, I want to ask you thisquestion Based on our dialogue
here.
I am so interested in yousharing your perspective on this
, and that's what does thefuture hold for you when it
comes to cycling?
Ken Reinke (51:09):
Okay, so I am definitely backing down the
ladder in terms of cycling.
I just set out this spring Iwas going to cross the country
one more time, but I set out andjust couldn't do it.
You know, it was just too much.
In fact I even want to say thatit wasn't fun.
(51:31):
Now I know how much mental goesinto that, but you know I can't
push off with my left leganymore, so I have a couple of
zero mile an hour crashes, youknow where you don't quite get
started and fall down.
Well, I don't need to be out inthe world doing that.
(51:51):
So I'm backing down the ladderso far that I'm even thinking
maybe an electric bike is in myfuture, so that I all I need is
help getting the started.
You know, the riding I don't.
I still don't think I'll haveany problem with, but that
getting started and stopping,but also with my scoliosis,
(52:14):
sleeping in a tent, getting offthe ground and stuff, all of
that has become more difficult.
Now would I love to go acrossthe country again.
Obviously, you know, thisspring I tried it and I made it
450 miles.
Obviously, you know, thisspring I tried it and I made it
450 miles.
But then I just rented a carand came home with my stuff.
Tom Butler (52:31):
Uh, you know, that's no longer in the stars for me
well, here's what I love aboutthis conversation with you, in
particular one is that, yourmindset being what it is, there
is a healthy aspect to yousaying you.
You know what.
I could try to force myself.
I could try to grit my teethand get through the pain, but
(52:55):
the truth of the matter is Iwant this to be something that
enhances my life, and at thispoint it doesn't feel like it's
enhancing my life.
Ken Reinke (53:06):
Well, I mean, that's really true.
I don't know.
So really, the true answer toyour question what's in the
future?
I don't know, and I'm going tocross that bridge when I come to
it.
Also, I can still ride around,we'll see.
We'll ride around, we'll see.
Tom Butler (53:28):
And so the other direction I want to go with this
is share with us how old youare now 73.
Okay, so at 73, kind ofconsidering some power assist or
considering maybe anotheradaptive form of cycling.
(53:49):
Talk to me about that.
Does that seem like a stepbackwards?
Does it not seem like the samekind of thing to you?
Ken Reinke (54:00):
Yeah, a little bit it does feel like a step
backwards, but it's time.
It's time for that and, uh,like, I have a hard time getting
my leg over my surly middle barand the seat, you know that's
gotten even, that's gottenharder, and so I think, well,
(54:22):
maybe I should just get a stepthrough bike, but that won't
solve the problem with nothaving the strength to push a
load.
So I think, no more loaded biketours and, frankly, can't
afford a supported tour, butmaybe some little supported
trips or something.
(54:42):
So, even around here, a lot oftimes I ride the same routes.
Can you imagine I mean riding ahundred miles a week how many
times I've been over the sameroutes here.
Having done that for years, Ialways look forward to if my
wife's going someplace.
She can take me and my bike anddrop me off so I can travel
(55:04):
some new routes.
So you know there's solutions.
Another thing, though I havedone some speaking engagements
about my book and stuff likethat, and one time a woman about
my age.
She was talking about herswimming coach way back when,
(55:25):
about her swimming coach wayback when, and she said that the
coach said it's 90% mental andthe other 10% is mental and I
love that because I used to sayit's 80% mental.
But now it is 100% mental sojust fun.
Tom Butler (55:44):
Well, I am asking you to do me a favor, and that
is keep me posted on yourdecision making as time goes on
here.
If you decide to get a bikethat has pedal assist, I'd love
for you to keep us updated onyour thinking with that and your
(56:05):
decision.
Would you do that for me?
Ken Reinke (56:07):
Sure, I'd be happy to.
I really enjoy your podcast andI like your approach to bicycle
as medicine or I forget how youput it as a medical device, as
a medical device.
I think it definitely is as amedical device.
Tom Butler (56:26):
I think it definitely is.
Well, ken, this has been so fun.
I was looking forward to thisand you just delivered a really
fun conversation, and I reallyappreciate that.
And I hope that.
(56:47):
I know I don't hope in yourcase.
I know that you, because theway you approach things, you're
going to find some really funways to keep active, maybe
discover cycling in a differentway or something like that, or
pedaling in a different way, andso I'm just looking forward to
seeing more about youradventures in the future.
Ken Reinke (57:03):
Well, thank you so much for your interest.
This has been fun for me.
Tom Butler (57:08):
Good, good, all right, thanks again, and we'll
talk again some other time.
Ken Reinke (57:14):
Excellent, bye now.
Tom Butler (57:24):
I'm so curious to see where Ken goes with his
cycling from here.
I'm even hopeful that cyclingover 60 will be able in some way
to play a role in Ken's cyclingfuture.
I keep thinking about what ittakes to just ride off without a
plan, like Ken did it.
It seems like one of thecalculations is that you can
rely on people being decent.
I feel we're being constantlypumped with fear tactics.
(57:45):
These days.
It seems like there's a constantstream of messages that the
world around us is extremelydangerous.
People being decent.
I feel we're being constantlypumped with fear tactics.
These days Seems like there's aconstant stream of messages
that the world around us isextremely dangerous and we need
to be saved from it.
Feels like that fear is beingused to control people.
And then you have theexperience of people like Ken,
who say that it's rare to meetsomeone who isn't interested in
being kind.
Maybe our neighbors aren't soscary and maybe, instead of
being afraid, we can focus onbeing kind and caring ourselves.
(58:08):
My hope is that all of us haveopportunities to interact with
someone like Ken on some journey, so that we have the
opportunity to be a friendlysource of support to someone
else.
I know that I'll be looking forthose kinds of interactions,
whether I'm on the bike or off,and remember, age is just a gear
change.
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