Coach Patrick McCabe

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As we close out an incredible year of cycling, host Tom Butler reflects on the highlights and challenges of 2025. Tom shares how he measured up against the goals he set at the start of the year and reveals his new targets for 2026.

In this episode, Tom welcomes Patrick McCabe, owner of Grit City Health in Tacoma, Washington, and a Cyclocross racing advocate. Patrick brings his expertise as both a personal trainer and Cyclocross coach to revisit the AI-generated training advice discussed in a recent episode. His perspective offers a compelling contrast to the algorithmic approach, demonstrating why personalized coaching and human expertise remain irreplaceable when it comes to training effectively—especially for cyclists over sixty.

Whether you're setting your own cycling goals for the new year or considering how to approach your training in 2026, this episode delivers valuable insights and inspiration to keep you motivated and moving forward.

Here is your invitation to join a great launch party for the summer cycling season.  Join the Cycling Over Sixty Tour de Cure PNW team.  Whether you are local or come out to experience cycling in the great Northwest, I would love to have you help make this a ride with a purpose.  And to send a message that the joy of cycling is here for everyone, regardless of age. Go to tour.diabetes.org/teams/CO60

I know it is early but we are looking to get the Cycling Over Sixty Tour de Cure team together as soon as possible. You can find all the info at tour.diabetes.org/teams/CO60

Thank you Konvergent Wealth for sponsoring CO60 Jerseys for the Tour de Cure!

Become a member of the Cycling Over Sixty Strava Club! www.strava.com/clubs/CyclingOverSixty

Cycling Over Sixty is also on Zwift. Look for our Zwift club!

Please send comments, questions and especially content suggestions to me at [e-mail]

Follow and comment on Cycling Over Sixty on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cyclingoversixty/

Show music is "Come On Out" by Dan Lebowitz. Find him here : lebomusic.com

Episode Transcript

Tom Butler (00:04):
This is the Cycling Over 60 Podcast, season 4,
episode 8.
Coach Patrick McCabe, and I'myour host, Tom Butler.
We've come to the end ofanother year for Cycling Over

(00:25):
60.
I feel like this has been afantastic year.
I really had some wonderfulexperiences.
I'm ending up the year with aninteresting issue.
As I talked about last episode,I have Achilles tendon pain.
As I'm working through thatissue, it's obvious to me that
recovery has to be a really bigfocus of cycling over 60.
In the case of my Achillestendon, the pain comes from

(00:47):
Achilles tendon enthasopathy.
That means the problem is wherethe tendon attaches to the heel
bone.
It's a good example of aninjury that can take a while to
heal.
And having that experience atthis time makes me think that in
the future, cycling over 60needs to help people find
information how to rehab such aninjury and maybe even resources

(01:07):
to turn to for help.
So I'm going to be looking moreclosely at normal recovery
issues and then also strategiesfor rehabbing injuries in 2026.
There's only a few days leftuntil the end of the year, so
it's pretty clear how I did ongoals for 2025.
As a reminder, my first year ofriding seriously was 2023, so

(01:28):
I've now had three years ofcycling.
Last year I fell short of thegoal of 10 miles a day.
But this year I will make itwith only 11 miles needed over
the next three days.
I'm a little nervous aboutsetting a higher mileage goal
next year because I've gottenmore busy lately.
But I also think that I havethe capacity to do more.
So I'm going to bump it upslightly to 4,000 miles in 2026.

(01:51):
At the six month mark thisyear, I was at 2,279 miles.
That means that I should havebeen able to make 4,000 miles
this year.
I'll have to analyze what keptme from doing more this year,
but I do know that I startedspending more time driving every
day, and I also had a reallybusy couple of months dealing
with family stuff.
At the six month mark, I was at174 hours of cycling.

(02:15):
That time I decided to shootfor 320 hours of activity by the
end of the year.
It's disappointing that I spent263 hours so far.
There's no way that I can do 37hours of cycling in the next
few days.
I will keep 320 hours as a goalagain next year and see what I
can learn to make sure that Ican reach it next year.
Seems like if I do the 320hours, I'll be able to reach the

(02:37):
4,000 miles.
My stretch goal for time is todo 10 hours a week of all types
of activity.
But some of that activity isn'ttracked in a way that we'll be
able to look back at.
So I don't think I'll be ableto measure all activity toward
that goal.
I fell well short of myelevation goal.
I did 60,197 feet of climbingon the bike.

(02:58):
My goal was 110,000.
I'm going to keep that goal for2026, but I'm going to have to
drive to places that have morehills than what I have locally.
I do want to think about a fairway to count virtual elevation
in the total.
If I add in virtual elevationthis year, I'm at a total of
125,813 feet.

(03:20):
That means I had 65,670 feet ofvirtual climbing this year.
As I've said, virtual climbingis just not the same as climbing
in real life.
Now if I decided to count halfof the virtual climbing to my
goal, that would put me ataround 93,000 feet, still below
the 110,000 feet I was shootingfor.
For now, I'm going to justignore virtual climbing and see

(03:41):
if I can reach 110,000 feet onreal roads.
I accomplished my goal of 25weeks of lifting twice a week
this year.
My goals for weight training in2026 are going to be very
different from 2025.
In 2026, I'm going to begetting help designing a full
body weight training program.
Stay tuned for what that meansfor my goals.
In 2025, I really deepened myconnection with the local

(04:03):
community in Tacoma, Washington.
I've made some important stepsto develop a model for local
cycling over 60 support.
What happens with this in 2026will be impacted in a big way by
conversations that I'm havingin the next month.
I'm anxious to share as soon asI can about those plans.
Something that I'm verymotivated to do in 2026 is to
expand cycling over 60 events.

(04:25):
First, there's a tour to cureon May 2nd.
I'm extremely excited to makethis a kickoff of the summer
cycling season.
A big reason for thatexcitement is that we get to
help raise funds for theAmerican Diabetes Association,
and at the same time, we get tomake a big statement about
benefits of cycling later inlife.
And like I've been doing forthe last couple months, I'm
inviting you to come and joinus.

(04:47):
Another event in 2026 will bethe second annual celebration of
cycling event late in thesummer.
I hope to release someinformation on the event in a
couple of weeks.
I enjoyed cyclecross a lot andit was a unique bike experience
for me.
And I'm hoping to have acycling over 60 cyclecross team
doing races in the fall.
Again, this is something thatI'll be sharing more information

(05:09):
about as time goes by.
The final word on events is I'dlike to have an awesome cycling
over 60 multi-day cycling tour.
I don't have any concrete plansyet.
If I do something this year, itwill most likely be very laid
back.
But send me an email if youwant to be kept in the lube on
any plans that I make.
I have found a very cheap wayto measure flexibility, and I'm

(05:29):
going to add a flexibility goal.
My cheap and easy way tomeasure flexibility is simply to
have Kelly hold a yardstickagainst the wall and see how far
I can reach.
The yardstick has a 36 inchesend against the wall, meaning
that touching my toes would be ameasurement of 36 inches.
My first attempt was ameasurement of 2.5 inches.

(05:50):
I would hope to be able totouch my toes by the end of
2026, but I'm going to play itsafe and work toward a goal of
20 inches.
Currently, I'm not even able toget my back to 90 degrees in
relation to my legs, so a lot ofwork there.
That's a look at what I'll beworking on in 2026.
Wish me luck.
They were so welcoming that Iwas excited to meet the owner of

(06:25):
Grit City Health and have thembecome part of the local cycling
over 60 support group.
I met Patrick McCabe, who ownsGrit City Health, and is the
force behind the Cyclocrossteam.
I also found out that Patrickworks as a personal trainer with
people doing cyclocross.
It was a natural thing that Iasked Patrick to comment on the
advice I got from AI coach Saraha couple of episodes ago.

(06:47):
Patrick took the time to listenand offered to come on and
share his thoughts.
Here is our conversation.
I am joined in person, which isawesome, by Patrick McCabe.
Thank you for coming on,Patrick.
Thanks for having me.
And we are here in your clinic,Grit City Health, which is
really fun to be like with youhere in this place.

(07:08):
I originally learned about youat Cyclocross event, the one
Cycle Cross event that Iparticipated in.
And so I'm I wanted to talk toyou and kind of and we'll learn
a bit more about what we'retalking about in a bit here.
But first, let's start out.
Tell me like your earliestmemory of the bicycle.

Patrick McCabe (07:30):
Yeah, one of my earliest memories, and just a
couple, is like being in likefirst grade kindergarten ish and
just riding around thecul-de-sac on a bike with some
friends and just jumping off allthe curbs and having a good
time.
And then my next memory is likewe have a family tradition of
getting a 10-speed bike on your10th birthday.

(07:51):
And so I remember getting abrand new bike.
I had never used handbrakes.
And so I got the bike out intothe cul-de-sac, rode it up and
then down, didn't know what todo.
So I just grabbed both brakes,went over the bars, and just
went straight into the house,grabbed one of my new gold pens
and wrote F and B for front andback on the brakes.

(08:15):
So I would never make thatmistake again.
But yeah, from there it's justnonstop freedom and riding.

Tom Butler (08:22):
You know, there's something about that picture,
and I I hope that we continue tosee it.
I don't know what's happeningwith BMX if less kids are doing
it, but that that adventure ofBMX and getting out and you
know, the the tracks that yousee and everything.

Patrick McCabe (08:38):
Well, and I think a lot of it just had to do
with the simplicity of thebicycle.
No shifting, no nothing, nocables.
And so it was a really easyentry point for a lot of people
to be able to get intocost-wise, and just yeah, the
simplicity of of learning on abicycle, not having to worry
about that.
And so now as as kids aregetting older and or even just

(09:01):
getting younger, and smallerbikes with gears are coming
around, it's it's becoming alittle bit more challenging for
them to be able to navigate andunderstand.
My kids each have gears ontheir bikes.
Do they use any of the gears?
Not a lot.
They just spin faster or grindup you know hills a little bit
slower.
And so it's like, oh, you canshift, and they're like, oh,

(09:21):
right, right, right.
But having that single speed,that BMX style is just kind of
that you don't think about it.
That's it.

Tom Butler (09:28):
That's an interesting perspective.
I yeah, you know, that thatsimplicity as compared to trying
to make things morecomplicated.
Yeah.
Sometimes, yeah.

Patrick McCabe (09:39):
So it's one of the elements of cyclocross as
well, as we get into that, thatI I really am a big proponent
of.
I preach to everyone, is thatif you ride a single speed in
cyclocross, there's a singlespeed category and a time slot.
It will make you a strongercyclist, a more resilient
cyclist, and a faster cyclist,you know, in cyclocross and

(10:00):
beyond, just from the simplicityof having to maintain momentum.
But I've always wanted a littlecounter to see how many times I
try and shift on my singlespeed, just so I can see if I'm
I'm getting better.
It's like, oh, that was a300-shift race where I tried to
shift 300 times.
It's like by the end of theseason, it was only a 200-shift

(10:20):
race where I tried to shift 200times.

Tom Butler (10:23):
That's an hilarious visual.
I love that.
Yeah.
So we're here at Grit CityHealth.
Yeah.
Tell me what you wanted tobring to the community through
Grit City Health.

Patrick McCabe (11:43):
Yeah.
Since thinking about this, it'skind of led me down a lot of
different rabbit holes of like,what do I try to bring?
What do I bring?
That whole mission, visionstatement, you know, mission
statement of being like, who areyou and what do you do now?
And the vision statement is,who are you and what do you do,
what do you want to be in five,10 years?
And if that came true, wouldyou be happy with that?

(12:06):
And one of the things that justkept coming back is we live in
such a high pressure,expectation-driven world that
what I try and bring to thecommunity is space, space to
come in and be who you are.
There's no judgment, there's noexpectations that you can come
in at any starting point and beable to have a space to be able

(12:29):
to be who you are and start fromright where you're at with any
goals, whether that's ahealth-related goal, whether
that's a fitness-related goal,whether that's athleticism, or
whether that's being out ofpain, but not having any fixing
expectations of that I'm sickand I need to become better.

(12:50):
You just come in with who youare and you can be able to say,
I just kind of want to move alittle bit better.
It's like awesome.
We'll start at that pointversus going, well, these are
the expectations that we have atthis gym of being able to do
these proper movements.
It's like, no, we're we'reworking with the fundamentals of
helping people make thosechanges that they want because

(13:12):
they're the guides of theirlives.
They know their life betterthan I'm ever gonna know their
life.
And so if I can just supportversus pressure, they stay
engaged a whole lot longer.
And that's really what I feeldrives the community is if you
don't feel valued andappreciated, you're gonna leave,
whether that's in a job,whether that's in a town, if you

(13:35):
don't feel that your self isworthy of that environment, or
you're being given theopportunities to excel, you're
gonna move on.
And so if I can be able toprovide that space where people
feel empowered by being who theyare and then making goals
within their own capacity,that's that's what I'd love to

(13:55):
be able to do.

Tom Butler (13:56):
It's such an interesting, like big view of
it.
And I'm thinking as you'retalking that people will come in
with misconceptions, peoplewill come in maybe being
pressured to do something thatthey wouldn't naturally choose
to do.
And so there must be a processat times where people really

(14:20):
don't know, and you help themfind that, you know, that
concept of where they want tobe.

Patrick McCabe (14:27):
Yeah.
I had a, for example, a recentclient come in and she just
walked through the door for herappointment, was like, I'm
really scared.
And I was like, well, tell meabout it.
And we just sat down and and soI try and convey to all my
clients and and to my websiteand my limited marketing I do

(14:48):
that it's a session.
It's there's no expectations ofwhat we'll do in that session.
We can sit here and talk aboutlife goals and be able to move
through those steps of change,you know, moving from
pre-contemplation tocontemplation, contemplation to
preparation, preparation toaction, action to maintenance,
and and be able to kind offigure out where those steps of

(15:11):
change are taking place, whatgoals they are thinking about or
they never even thought about,and then help them be able to
identify things that they dowant.
And so by the time we finishedthe session, they were just
like, I am so happy I made it inhere.
And it's like, I'm so happy youmade it in here too.
And it just was just so cool tobe able to take that I'm

(15:33):
fearful.
Because I, you know, there's ahealthcare kind of trope and
joke that I always say, which islike a lot of people, they
don't, they need to be able toprepare themselves to go into X.
They're not ready to do thisbecause they need to do this,
all these different things.
They have this idea of they,you know, I don't I can't take a
fitness class because I want toget fit first so I don't look,

(15:55):
you know, out of place in thatfitness class.
I always make the joke to thedentist that the dentist is one
of the few healthcare, you know,places where you try and do
their job for them.
I brush my teeth really goodthis morning so that you don't
have to do anything.
I extra floss today so that youyou'll be like, wow, these
teeth are great.
I don't have to do anything.

(16:15):
I don't do that when I go tothe hair, you know, salon.
I don't do that when I go seemy general practitioner for a
checkup.
It's like, I took all myvitamins today, so you're gonna
think that I'm really healthy.
But when we start to deal withpeople in the real world, they
do have those fears and they dohave preconceived notions and
expectations that they should beX before they even take on

(16:39):
whatever it is.
Uh you know, I want to try andbecome a little bit healthier,
or maybe like a friend of mineis running a marathon.
I don't even know, I don'tthink I could run 10 minutes, 30
minutes.
I how could they run for thatlong?
And it's like, oh, you you juststart with support without any
expectations, and then youdevelop a love for it, and so it

(17:01):
becomes a whole lot easier.
And if you don't have support,it's really hard to find other
people that are supportive.
And so again, that that'sthat's where I kind of like came
up with the concept of like,yeah, it provide a space for
people to be who they are andfind others in that community
because they start opening theireyes to what the possibilities

(17:24):
are.

Tom Butler (17:25):
I hear you saying that as a personal trainer, that
you see there being a wholeperson view of that that is
essential to finding successwith that person.
Is that right to say?

Patrick McCabe (17:41):
Yeah.
You know, I I really kind ofwork on uh a three pillars model
of mental, physical, andemotional pillars.
And you can't stress all threeat the same time.
And so if you don't look at theentire person, if you start
adding on too much physicalitywhen they're already dealing

(18:02):
with mental and emotional uhchallenges, whether that's at
home or at work, you're gonnahave something break down.
And so you wanna be able tokind of understand that it's not
we don't seek balance.
I always joke that I don't evenknow how to say the word
balance because there's nothingabout me that is balanced.

(18:24):
And so I really strive to seekharmony, it's the constant
fluctuation that you might be indissonance and you might be in
harmony and you might oscillateback and forth.
But when you put a little bitof extra effort into one area,
you get a lot of rewards, and sothat you can put a little bit
of extra effort into anotherarea and get a lot of rewards.
So seeking that harmony reallythrough my coaching, athletic

(18:48):
coaching, health coaching,through my movement, that's kind
of my big, big focus.
It's like, yeah, some days,some things are gonna be a
little bit more challenging.
And you just have to know thatyou can't seek balance.
You can't say, wow, today was areally emotionally taxing day.
I think I'm gonna do aphysically taxing day to balance
myself out.
And it's like it's creatingnegative pathways.

(19:12):
Like rest, recover, seekharmony, lean into that, and get
as much as you can from that.

Tom Butler (19:18):
One thing that you bring, you're a licensed massage
therapist.
Yes.
And so talk to me about likehow you see massage therapy as
important to being active.

Patrick McCabe (19:31):
Yeah, massage therapy really comes down to
human touch.
I've got massage guns, and youcan have them bump around on
you, but there's no connection.
The massage is really thathuman touch to be able to kind
of create connection.
And I look at it as stimulatingthe parasympathetic nervous

(19:54):
system is how do we get into astate of recovery?
You can find ways of puttingyourselves into an excited
adrenaline-fueled fight orflight state.
Just walking out across thestreet already does that.
But we have a really hard timefalling asleep, staying asleep,
finding recovery, finding timesto relax.

(20:15):
And that's where massage reallycomes into play.
And so having it as acomplement to movement or
separating movement fromexercise and understanding that
movement doesn't have to beexertion, you know,
exertion-centered.
It can be relaxation-centeredto be able to support that
recovery, adding the massagecomponent in just kind of as

(20:38):
that cherry on top to be able tosay, I see you, I see what's
happening, and now I'm creatinga supportive structure and
feeling the way the body'sresponding so that you can
become more in tune with thesetypes of feelings as you spend
time throughout your day.
It's like, oh, I do tense up myshoulders when I get stressed.

(20:58):
It's like, cool.
Here's a couple little thingsthat you can do to be able to
kind of move those shouldersaround, de stress, take a couple
deep breaths, all while in the,you know.
Context of movement treatmentrelaxation work?

Tom Butler (21:11):
When I watch a documentary or something on like
the Tour de France, and I seethem doing massages after races
as part of their recovery fromthat day's race.
What are they trying to achievewith massage in in those

(21:31):
sessions?

Patrick McCabe (21:32):
Yeah.
So if you look at your body asa system of roads and highways,
you can see that those roads andhighways can fuel muscle
activation.
And then when muscle activationbecomes so strong, the muscles
can actually limit movement.
And so you have blood pumpingthe muscles to fuel the muscles,
but then you have the musclestaking over and limiting the

(21:53):
blood returning to be able tokind of get fresh oxygen,
lymphatic system moving through,which is kind of pulling the
garbage, the byproducts.
And so a lot of time post-racemassages, you're trying to
stimulate the lymphatic system,you're trying to return blood,
you're trying to downregulatethe muscle activation so that

(22:15):
you can be able to recover asquickly as you can.
So you're constantly doingthese big, long called the
efflourage, uh, sweeping strokesto be able to kind of move
fluid uh throughout the bodyversus creating a stimulating
massage, like a massage gun,which is there to kind of
promote blood flow, get themuscles activated, kind of warm

(22:37):
them up and kind of excited tobe able to perform at their
best.
You're kind of doing theopposite, kind of flushing out
the muscles and kind of gettingas much movement as you can
through the whether it's theblood vessels, whether the
lymphatic system, whether it'sjust interstitial fluid opening
up the fascia, things like that.

Tom Butler (22:59):
Well, you know, I feel like I want to come back
sometime and talk more aboutmassage with you, but I do I
want to get into like the mainreason why I wanted you to join
me.
Yeah.
And it comes down to yourinterest in cyclocross and you

(23:26):
again kind of interacting withyour wife at the cyclocross
event I was at and hearing hertalk about your interest and
what you're doing.
I'm looking on the wall, andthere is a Grit City kit on the
wall behind you.
Like you're into it.

Patrick McCabe (23:43):
Yeah.

Tom Butler (23:43):
And so tell me about that.
How did you get interested incyclocross?

Patrick McCabe (23:47):
I was asked to like, you should try cyclocross.
It's so fun.
And when it was described tome, it sounded like the dumbest
idea ever.
And so I was like, absolutelynot.
That just doesn't sound like agood time.
Riding on a the the wrong bike,riding on the wrong trails and

(24:09):
in the wrong season.
But then there was a race atthe local trail system that I
had kind of like worked to helpbuild and do a lot of trail work
and volunteer work.
And so I was like, I might aswell represent some of the trail
builders that have done a lotof work out here.
And I'll go out there and it'sat Swan Creek.
And the only bike that I hadthat could essentially qualify

(24:31):
was this steel single-speed bikethat I used for commuting to
work.
And I put some knobier tiresthat I got from Second Cycle on
it and went out there and justwearing a Sounders jersey and
some you know capri pants, youknow, commuter style cycling
pants, and just had a blastbecause there were 50, 60, 100

(24:56):
other people with bikes justlike mine doing an activity and
struggling just like I am, witheveryone's just big smiles on
their face and sweat andgrimaces.
And it was just so, so fun.
And I was like, I want to dothis again.
And there was like one raceleft in the season, and so I was

(25:18):
like, the big separator is I Ijust need gears, and my only
geared bike was a fullsuspension mountain bike.
And so me, my wife, and mydaughter all raised our full
suspension mountain bikes up inNorth Sea Tac.
It was so muddy.
Our bikes probably weighed 40or 50 pounds by the middle of
the first lap.
And then we had to climb upthese stairs carrying these full

(25:39):
suspension mountain bikes,riding around.
But we all had so much fun, andwe all have so many memories
that we quote from each of theseraces, just from the announcers
calling us out.
Like my wife was wearing acamelback backpack for her race
just because she didn't knowwhat to expect.
And they're like, let's gocamelback.
And so we quote that nonstopthroughout the cyclocross

(26:00):
season.
And I was Sounders guy becauseI had a Sounders jersey on, and
it was just so fun to be likeyou just show up with whatever
you have and whatever you're youdon't you know experience it
for the first time, and thenfrom there we just couldn't stop
buying bikes and getting moreinto it.
We we had to wait for theentire next season to come

(26:21):
around, and so it was just itwas so great.

Tom Butler (26:23):
So nice.
Yeah.
I went out and uh my son-in-lawis doing circle cross, Garen.
People have heard him from himon the podcast several times.
You know, he said, come out,this is gonna be a very friendly
course.
I I hadn't really prepped atall.
I thought I'll come out, I'lldo the warmups, you know, and if

(26:44):
I hate it, then I won't do it.
But did the warm-ups and it'slike, okay, this is not too
technical of a course.
Yeah, and so I I wrote it, Ihad a blast, was the only person
over 60 erasing that coursethat day.
Yeah, and so I came out ofthere really looking at

(27:07):
cyclocross as a different way ofstimulating my interest in
cycling and also wanting to puttogether a cycling over 60
cyclocross team.
Jim, my first question to youis do you think it's crazy to
think about cycling over 60cycle cross team?

Patrick McCabe (27:26):
No, I don't think it's crazy at all.
There is inherent risk, whichcomes with off-road riding.
And so that's the main thing ismaking sure that people are
understanding the risk thatthey're taking and the ways that
they can stay safe and get apositive experience out of it.

(27:47):
So that they don't feel thatthey are forced to do any
certain technical downhill orsingle track section, that
they're doing it within a theirown ability.
But there's a lot to begarnered from riding cyclocross
just bike handling wise, it's aunique experience and the
stimulus of a high-intensityactivity where you're constantly

(28:11):
going back and forth betweenhigh output and zero coasting,
you know, exertional efforts.
That constant oscillationreally stimulates a unique
experience that most peopledon't get when they go out on
the group ride with theirfriends or ride the foothills,
or even mountain biking can becan be very one hour of

(28:34):
consistent output to the top ofthe hill and then coasting and
intermittent output on the youknow, descent.

Tom Butler (28:41):
So I think it's an awesome point that it's an
opportunity to kind of regulateyourself in a way.
Uh it's a it's a challenge, andit's sometimes you might have
to say, okay, I'm I'm not gonnado that.
I'm gonna get off the bike, youknow, like maybe there's a
downhill section.
I'm gonna get off the bike, I'mgonna walk down that section.

(29:02):
There's times that's a veryhealthy perspective to take,
that I'm gonna take care ofmyself by doing this right.
Yeah.

Patrick McCabe (29:07):
So the one of the psychicross sayings is you
might not win by riding acertain section, but you could
definitely lose a lot by ridinga certain section that's above
your ability.
And so being mindful, for oneexample, I think a race that you
came out to, the North 40 race,had a very dry summer, and we

(29:32):
had a very heavy rain going intoit, but one of the descent
sections did not receive any ofthat moisture, and so it was
very, very soft and dry, and itwas very loose of years of just
riding the same descent.
And so by the time the lastrace of the day came around,
which was my race for the singlespeed race, I made the decision

(29:53):
that yeah, I could ride it.
I rode it in the pre-rides,I've ridden it every year.
I've I'm a well-seasonedmountain biker.
I didn't have any issues withit.
But the first race of the year,I felt that I didn't want to
risk crashing, injuring myself,and taking myself out for the
entire season so early on.

(30:14):
So I made the decision to runthat section.
And again, I did not lose anyplaces every time I ran it.
I was right with the personthat I went in with, or I stayed
faster than the person that wasbehind me by running it, but I
decreased my risk quite a bitand came out without any
injuries.

(30:35):
And I did not fall into thelake or the little uh pond
there, which every time youdescend that, it's like it's
right there.
Somebody's gotta go in it, makeit a triathlon.
But yeah, so I made thatdecision and that was the right
thing for me.
Yeah, and I felt that I I I hada really good race.
I like it.

Tom Butler (30:55):
Yeah.
Okay, so I reached out to acoach for some input.
And if you've not listened tothe episode a couple episodes
ago, uh there's it might be goodto stop at this point and go
listen to that for some context.
But I reached out to a coachand it was AI Coach Sarah.

(31:18):
Yes, the AI gave a name, CoachSarah, and got uh quite a bit of
input on preparing for to domore cycle cross in the future.
Yes.
You were generous to take yourtime and go listen to that.
And so I'm really curious nowto get into some comments you

(31:41):
have, some observations youmade, some maybe corrections
that you would like to make inthe device that was given.
So go ahead and let's get intothat.

Patrick McCabe (31:50):
Yeah.
It was a really interestingback and forth, and you can tell
that it's pulling from a reallybroad range of knowledge and
experience of people writingabout this and talking about
Psychocross and being able tokind of display that.
The hard part is thatPsychocross is a an experience

(32:11):
that has to be actually done.
You can watch a lot ofPsychocross on TV, but until you
experience it, there are justunique challenges that come up.
And so I yeah, I made a couplenotes, which is she talked a lot
about becoming more technicallycapable, especially due to your
concerns of having your power,average power be so much lower

(32:34):
than uh what your threshold is.
And one of the challenges withcyclocross is that it's it's so
variable, and the exertionalstress is not captured by a
power meter that comparingCyclocross to a Zwift ride or
your threshold or a group ride,it's like comparing a banana to

(32:56):
an apple.
They they both havecarbohydrates and they're
slightly sweet, but reallythat's about it.
Um, and so looking at the thepower profile and looking at
what your threshold is, yeah,the goal with any power profile

(33:16):
or any heart rate data is allalways post-activity reflective
to see what's going on versus inrace.
One of the things I always jokeabout is during any kind of
exertional effort, when musclesand your brain are fighting for
glucogen glycogen, your muscleswill always win.
So don't try and do math on thebike.

(33:37):
And so when people are exertingthemselves and they're like, my
heart rate is this, and they'relooking down at their computer
and they're like, and my powerlooks like this.
And they're going, okay, if mypower is like this, and and I
hold this over the course of thenext five minutes, and then my
heart rate goes up this, andit's like, just so you know,
your brain is not working with afull deck right now, it is not
getting the glycogen it needs tobe able to fuel this kind of

(33:58):
computation.
Your muscles are asking forthis.
So don't, don't, don't evenworry about that.
And so, yeah, so looking atthat technical capability, one
of the challenges is yeah, it'sa technical thing, but how much
time you invest in the technicalcapabilities really doesn't pan

(34:19):
out.
And so you can spend two hoursa week, like Coach Sarah
recommended, on technical skillsto be able to then race three
to four races once a month, asshe recommended, to save a few
seconds per lap.
The return on investment justunfortunately doesn't seem
there.

(34:39):
A hundred hours over the courseof the year, plus to be able to
save a couple seconds in a racethat you might do three to four
times a year.
Seems like those couple hundredhours could be better spent,
being more comfortable on abike, increasing your threshold
by a couple watts to be able torecover a lot better, uh,
focusing on more resilient,focused workouts, things like

(35:01):
that.
And so it's it's reallyinteresting because your peak
capacity really you get adiminishing return when you hit
so many hours.

Tom Butler (35:08):
So let me talk about a few things.
So I the race that I did wasactually the lemon peel stilicum
race.
Um there were it was mostlyflat.
Yeah.
And so there were some tightturns, you know, and then there
was one section where you camedown a pretty, not very far, but

(35:31):
but down a pretty steep umhill, and then had a very sharp
turn at the bottom of it.
You came back up the hill, hada sharp sharp turn at the top,
came back down the hill, andthen you you got back on flat
again.
And then there was there weretwo sets of barriers, yes, which

(35:54):
are basically, I don't know,two by sixes, two two by sixes,
two two by eights.
Two by twelve.
Two by twelves, okay.
So stacked on top of each eachother.

Patrick McCabe (36:02):
Two two by eights for those ones.
Okay.
Yeah, some of the lowerbarriers are two by twelve, just
two by twelves.

Tom Butler (36:08):
Oh, okay, okay.
So I dismounted.
I was clipped in, so had tounclip, dismount, get over the
barrier, pick up the bike, carryit over the barrier, and then
jump back on.
So get over the first barrier,run to the next barrier, get
over the that barrier, and thenand then hop back and continue

(36:31):
going.
So I found, and and there is apicture of me going over the
barriers that's a side shot,that's a video, not a picture,
but a video.
And I look at that and I go,okay, that's a novice person
going over these barriers.
What I hear you saying is eventhe like my bike handling around

(36:54):
the sharp corners on grass orin mud, I felt pretty, I felt
challenged with that.
I felt like I had to slow downquite a bit to make it around.
And then that section,especially coming down the hill,
making the sharp turn, and thenhaving to accelerate up the
hill, I found that to bechallenging.
It's not something that I do,yeah, you know, and it was

(37:17):
getting muddier as time went on.
So I found those to bechallenging technically.

Patrick McCabe (37:22):
Yeah.

Tom Butler (37:23):
But even within that, what you're saying is that
to really focus on thattechnical side of it is probably
not going to provide moresatisfaction for me racing those
races.
Am I hearing you right?

Patrick McCabe (37:42):
Yeah.
So I usually look at it asthere's early season riding.
Let's say you focus on cyclecross.
That's your A season for theyear.
I like to do my most riskythings with the furthest time
frame away from that season.
And then you get more preciseand more precise and more

(38:03):
precise as you get closer andcloser and lower the risk so
that you're ready for theseason.
One of the challenges is thatdoing some high-intensity work,
whether it's out in the fieldand you're riding the trails
that we're, you know, the lemonpeel race was at, you can only
sustain successive weeks ofhigh-intensity work and be able

(38:25):
to reap those benefits for solong before you start to burn
out.
And so those types of skillsreally it's challenging to do in
a fresh state and feel thatthat's going to be super
beneficial.
You need to do it under thesame conditions.
And that's where I feel thatlooking at the race season as an

(38:51):
experience.
So, newer riders, if you canride 10, 15, you know, I usually
average between 15 and 20 racesa year.
This year was a very low yearas I leaned into the management
side.
But the main reason for me torace that many times is just to
be able to repeat those sameefforts under those same

(39:12):
conditions in a safeenvironment.
If I ride my bike out to FortStillicum and I start going
through those trails and I fall,it's going to be a long time
before somebody finds my body.
And so that's the fun partabout doing events is that you
have medical staff on hand, youhave somebody who's going to
find you in within secondsbecause they're right behind you

(39:33):
if you do take a fall.
We've had people break hips andhave significant crashes, and
medical staff is right therebecause there's riders who are
letting everybody know asquickly as they can that
somebody needs help.
There's riders who are stayingwith that individual.
And so you don't want thosethings to happen, but I'm more

(39:55):
happy to take those risks in arace and develop those skills
over the course of the seasonversus saying I'm going to ride
one or two races a year or onerace a month, as Coach Sarah was
saying, because it doesn't giveyou that experience.
I like to say that you cleaveoff fitness early in the base

(40:16):
phase.
You take a round, you know, newobject and you cleave off an
edge.
And then you start sharpeningit as you start to increase your
intensity.
And then you start honing itwhen you get into your
specificity, whether you'regetting ready for cycle
cross-style efforts.
But racing uses the blade.
It does not build fitness.
It uses the blade, which mightharden it and make it more

(40:39):
resilient.
And it might, you know, sloughoff some of the burrs that are
left from the honing process.
And so you might get really,really good because you you
develop those technical skills.
But it's really hard to say myFTP went up because I raced 15
times.
But I learned so much so thatnext year, when I do increase my

(41:00):
capacity, I'm coming in with anew experience and doing the
same thing over and over, whichis why I like Cyclocross to have
shorter.
Laps so that you're doing morelaps of the same experience.
So that little chicane that hada little off-camber section,
yeah.
If you do that twice because itwas a super long lap, you
didn't really gain anyexperience on that.

(41:21):
But if you did it five or sixtimes because it's a short lap
and you're going through it overand over, every time you're
going, how do I do that faster?
How do I solve that problemquicker?
How do I be a little bitsmoother going into it?
How do I maintain speed comingout of it?
Do I dismount and just run thewhole entire thing versus trying
to figure out, I didn't shift,I'm not in the right gear to get

(41:44):
up this.
Now I have to dismount from acomplete dead stop.
So there's all those learningprocesses every single lap,
which is I really promotepre-riding and getting as many
pre-rides in as you can allthroughout the day to see how
the conditions change throughoutthe race day.
After the last race is done,hop on course real quick and

(42:04):
just see what the last racerswere dealing with.
If you raced at nine o'clockand now it's three o'clock,
stick around for the day.
See what other racers who are alittle bit faster or might be a
little bit smoother, howthey're dismounting, what
they're doing, how they'reswinging their leg over the back
of the bike or stepping throughif they're a classic style
racer, how they're dismounting,how they're going over the

(42:27):
barriers, how they're carryingthe bike.
Everything is going to be alittle bit different as you
start to get a little bit fasterand more experienced.
And so it's really tough whennewer riders will go at nine or
10 race and then leave.
It's like, man, thoseconditions of the course, a
little dew on the ground, alittle bit damp.
By the time it's two, threeo'clock, and you're going

(42:49):
through a course that might havehad 900 racers, as you know,
like Woodland Park, that lastrace of the day, the course is
pretty different than theearlier racers.

Tom Butler (42:59):
I mean, it's really easy to see that.
You know, it is a differentcourse.
Right.
So yeah.
So let's talk about my heartrate.
Yeah.
Limitation.
As I was writing, I did have mycomputer on, I could see my
heart rate.
And I know if I when I'mpushing myself, I will get up to

(43:26):
over 170 beats per minute.
I also know that I can'tsustain that for very much.
And so it does give me somefeedback that you know I'm I'm
pushing too hard.
If I want to complete these,I'll, you know, as many laps as
I can complete.
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
Uh coach Sarah was saying youyou can increase that by

(43:52):
spending some time, you know, uhgetting up into higher ranges
and then backing off.
What what were your thoughtsabout those recommendations?

Patrick McCabe (44:01):
Yeah, I I tend to go back to the very, very
beginning of the heart, is theheart is a pumping mechanism.
And so your heart rate is acondition of the volume and the
speed.
And so some people have reallylow heart rates because their
heart is pumping so much volumeper stroke.
And then some people, theirheart doesn't have that volume

(44:22):
capacity, and so it increasesthe rate at which it needs to
squeeze.
And so it's really kind of thisinformative post-race
experience of looking at yourheart rate after the race.
Did that feel like what itfelt?
And that's the challenge islooking at it in race.
I can be on the start line andhave 150 beats per minute going

(44:46):
on, and I haven't even movedbecause I care about the race.
I did a double dose of caffeinebefore the race and it's
finally kicking in.
And I just looked over and myarch nemesis just lined up that
wasn't on the start list, and hejust showed up.
And now I really like amnervous, but I haven't even left

(45:06):
and I'm already in that sweetspot zone.
So am I doing sweet spot effortwith that heart rate on the
start line?
And so it can be really kind ofmisleading looking at a heart
rate during a race.
But if you are doing long grouprides, if you're doing ramrod
and you kind of know that, likeI really am just trying to keep

(45:28):
my heart rate low, and younotice that, oh, like I felt
really good, but I know that'stoo high.
I might need to have thatinform me on how many calories
I'm burning or what mycarbohydrate intake might need
to be to be able to make it tothe next aid station, what my
rest at the aid station mightneed to be until my heart rate
kind of relaxes.
But there's so many variablesthat kind of go into it that I

(45:49):
feel like using heart rate oreven power in a race doesn't
really give you a whole lot.
Because also the biggest thingis mental training is your body
is always gonna beself-protective.
It's always gonna be saying,Hey, if you keep doing this, you
could die.
And it's it's like, come on,body, like you're being a little

(46:12):
like over the top.
And it's like, no, but really,like this seems really hard.
You should stop right now.
And it's like, okay, I stopped.
And then if somebody were like,could you go a little bit
longer?
And you're like, well, yeah, Ican totally have gone a little
bit longer, but is my body justkept telling me that like this
is a lot of work.
And it's like, yeah, that's theself-protective mechanism of
our brains.
And that's why we do thingsthat are challenging, isn't just

(46:35):
for the physiologicaladaptations, it's for those
mental challenges of going, I'vedone this in training, I can do
this now.
And that's what I tell myathletes is events have one
purpose.
Give your coach good data.
Because I don't want you to seta new threshold PR max out on a

(46:56):
gravel road by yourself.
Again, nobody's gonna find yourbody if you crash into a ditch.
So use events as ways to beable to give your coach good
data to be able to affect yourtraining plan, to be able to
move forward.
So we look at the climb andit's like, hey, this looks like
it's gonna be about a 40-minuteclimb.
This is kind of what you'veshown in training that you can
do.
Give me good data.

(47:17):
If you think that you can domore, show me in this race that
you can do more, and we'll lookafter the race and we'll see
what we can do, and we'll seehow we can form our next
training cycle based on what youshowed me that you can do.
Give it because you get to thetop, you're bleary-eyed,
recover, take some breaths, butknow that you you left it all

(47:38):
out there for that type ofeffort, and that there's medical
staff if you need to, thatyou're supported, that you have
aid stations to be able to giveyou some extra fuel or hydration
if you didn't plan for that.
All those types of things comeinto play.
How do you know what you haveavailable if you don't ever put
that out there?
And that's why what is FTP?

(47:59):
Like when we get down to it,what is a functional threshold
power?
It's all just a guess of howmuch you can do in training so
that we can inform some kind ofexpectations for racing.
But if we take away thoseexpectations of racing and we
just say, be curious and show mewhat you can do, then we can
inform our training and keepmoving the needle forward.

Tom Butler (48:20):
Yeah, I I don't see FTP as something that has some
like that number is magical.
Yeah.
I but I do feel like if I'mreplicating the conditions and
I'm able to do a higher FTP, ifI'm you know on Zwift, I'm on
the same course in Zwift, andI'm able to do a higher FTP over

(48:44):
20 minutes, I do interpret thatas an increase in strength.

Patrick McCabe (48:51):
Yeah.

Tom Butler (48:51):
In some kind of strength.
Yeah.
Whether that's muscularstrength or cardiovascular
strength.
I do interpret it that way.

Patrick McCabe (48:59):
Yeah.
And that's the way to use it,is to be able to show that your
training zones are moving in theright direction, that you have
more capacity to be able toincrease your efforts.
If you go out and you ride 200watts for 20 minutes, and then
the next day you see if you canhold it for 40 minutes, and then
eventually you can hold it fora full hour.

(49:21):
It's showing your increasedcapacity.
But if you keep riding at that200 watts, eventually it's gonna
become a smaller and smallerand smaller ratio or portion of
your capacity.
And so then it's gonna elicit asmaller and smaller
physiological adaptation thatyou might not be hoping for

(49:42):
because you're gonna need tostimulate some kind of capacity
at some time.

Tom Butler (49:47):
So FTP is one of those things that I'm I'm
following.
The other thing is I don't knowwhat's going on physiologically
with me as my heart rateincreases.
I mean, theoretically, my bloodpressure is doing something
different, but I'm not wearing ablood pressure cuff.

(50:08):
I don't know what my bloodpressure is doing.
So, in addition to the number,then there is the element of how
I feel.

Patrick McCabe (50:17):
Yeah.

Tom Butler (50:17):
My breathing, I don't feel like I'm ever
breathing hard.
And that's a really curiousthing with me and about energy
utilization that we don't havetime to dive into at this point.
But you know, if I'm if I'mdoing a climb and I get above
170 beats per minute for verylong, there is a I feel

(50:41):
differently, like my head feelsdifferently.
I would get up to maybe 175.
I don't ever get up to 180.
But there is, you know, thatelement of I feel my like I've
overstressed myself.
But maybe I'm wrong about that.
Maybe that's not reliableassessment of my stress.

Patrick McCabe (51:06):
Yeah, you you touch on breathing.
And one of the interestingthings that I'll just bring up
real quick is like breathing isone of the few subconscious and
conscious controlling factors.
Like you can control yourbreathing and you can just
choose to stop breathing.
You can increase yourrespiration rate.
But also, if you don't, you'lljust naturally keep breathing.
And so as your stress rate goesup, your breathing will respond

(51:29):
to that.
But you also have control overthat.
You can slow down yourbreathing as much as you need
to.
Now, that might have downwardeffects of increasing your heart
rate because you're no longerproviding the amount of oxygen
that's needing to be, you know,going through your lungs and
into your bloodstream.
But we have a lot of capacityto be able to reduce our heart

(51:49):
rate, reduce that exertionalfeel by controlling our breath,
focusing on a longer exhale.
You know, we start to workharder.
Our body's creating chemicalreactions and it's using
different nutrients and it'smoving everything around and we
start to become acidic.
And we get rid of that throughthe carbon dioxide we breathe

(52:10):
out for the most part, and weutilize a little bit here and
there.
We inhale as much oxygen as weever need because we're super
good at that, but we are tryingto exhale more carbon dioxide.
And so if we're constantly inthis panting breath, we never
get out a lot of that buildup.
And so then it feels so muchharder.
And that's why our body's like,you could die.

(52:32):
We're we're we're we're almostsuffocating here because we're
not getting enough carbondioxide out so that we can bring
in the oxygen in.
And so just yeah, controllingthe breath has a huge effect,
and something I really recommendpeople work on when they're
doing easy rides, steady staterides, is just take some slow

(52:53):
deep breaths and watch yourheart rate come down.
Take a drink of water and watchyour heart rate go up because
you you're not exhaling whileyou're drinking and you're
pausing that.
And it's like you can alwaystell looking at my rides, like
when I took a drink of water,because it's just see that rise,
and then you just see it dropall the way back down.
So there's lots of things thatyou can do to be able to control

(53:15):
heart rate, and that's why Ireally feel that it should
perceive or it should influenceyour perception of exertion and
your RPE, your rate of perceivedexertion, it should influence
that, not be a controllingmetric.

Tom Butler (53:27):
Interesting.
As you listen to what theadvice I got from Coach Sarah,
yeah, how would you direct me asfar as what to do from now to
next cycle cross-season to getbetter prepared?

Patrick McCabe (53:41):
Yeah.
My biggest focus with all myathletes that I recommend for
just about anyone is to create asustainable calendar.
We get into these microcyclesof like, oh yeah, I'm gonna do a
big threshold block.
And then I go into VO2 block.
And the hard part is that ifit's not tied to available
daylight, training time, some ofthe goals and events that you

(54:04):
like to do, having fun on thebike, you can really spiral
really quickly if you don't havethat mindset of like, yeah,
this is this is my ultimategoal.
And so I create a sustainablecalendar, which usually looks at
a little bit of enduranceriding and some base building,
just getting comfortable andcreating the habit of being on
the bike and finding a reallygood rhythm and schedule.

(54:26):
And then doing some earlyspring, a little bit more sweet
spot threshold type of effortswhere you're kind of increasing
your capacity and kind ofpushing and seeing what you can
do.
And by the time you get intothe summertime, you're using a
lot of those efforts to be ableto fuel some, you know, unique
adventures, some longer ridingwhere you might have some harder

(54:46):
climbs or some longer sustainedclimbs to really build a good
volume and base.
And then you get close into theend of the summer as you get
towards the cyclocross season,you start uh honing that tool.
You start getting into somespecificity, some higher
anaerobic efforts, some VO2style efforts, because you you
really cap out at how long youcan do VO2.

(55:09):
If I had you do a VO2 workworkout one to two days a week
starting now, and just see howlong you go, you're really gonna
start hitting the bike prettysoon.
Because we create thesenegative reactions to physical
duress.
And your body's like, if you dothis, you're you could die.
And so, how do you do that?
You start incorporating easyrides with maybe some strength

(55:33):
training, some full bodymobility, something to be able
to create a healthy, strong,active body.
And then you get into thesummertime and you're kind of
oscillating between more ridetime, more adventures, enjoying
being on the bike.
I recommend a lot of soulrestoring rides, things that
like that's why you're gettingon the bike.
Psychocross is really tough.

(55:54):
If you had a national intentionof, I want to be the strongest
and fastest 60-year-old cyclecross racer, cool.
That's a really great 10 to 15year plan to be the strongest
75-year-old cyclocross racer.
Because the people who are atthe front end of the 60s right
now have been doing it sincethey're, you know, 10, 20, 30,
40, 50 years old, and they'vebeen doing it for so long that

(56:17):
that expectation just is great.
But let's create smart,realistic, timely, you know,
goals.
And so then we start to godown, go in.
How many races can we do to beable to gain that experience?
And what does that look like?
What does it cost?
What is the recovery process?
Is the main thing.
I constantly say we need towork you between your minimum

(56:37):
effective dose and your maximumrecoverable amount to be able to
get the physiologicaladaptations and the mental
adaptations that we want.
If we're below that minimumeffective dose and you're not
riding enough, you're nevergoing to be able to see any kind
of progress.
If we're above that maximumrecoverable amount, you need to
recover for longer than youwant.

(56:59):
And so then you wind up losingall the gains because your body
wasn't recovered in time,whether that's heart rate,
ligaments, muscles, all thoserecover at a different rate.
And so having some kind ofseason where you're going, okay,
this is my season.
I'm gonna exert myself, I'mgonna try and recover as much as
I can, but I want to be able togain these technical skills.

(57:20):
That's all in season stuff, orjust before the season stuff.
Everything else should be tosupport developing strong
muscles, developing strongjoints, being able to develop a
strong heart rate, a strongheart, and be able to develop
the right mindset that you canbe able to challenge yourself
and work past some of those backof the mind you could die

(57:42):
experiences.

Tom Butler (57:44):
You talked in there about some weight training.
Yeah.
Coach Sarah recommendedBulgarian squats.
Yeah.
So talk to me about that.

Patrick McCabe (57:55):
Yeah, so strength training is really
great, and it comes from areally simple foundation of that
your body kind of bends andsquats, which is a lot of
anterior work.
You hinge at the hips, which isa lot of posterior chain work.
Uh, you push away from thebody, which is a lot of
anterior, and you pull intowards the body, which is a lot
of posterior upper body.

(58:16):
And then from there you can dosome pressure loading, rotation,
mobility, but those five ofpressure loading, which is
creating some static internalpressure and bracing with the
core muscles, doing somehinging, squatting, pushing, and
pulling, really great to do ona regular basis and get stronger
in those things because that'show our body moves.
It's not very complicated.
I feel that when you get intothose motions, you can do a lot

(58:40):
of things to add strain withoutadding resistance.
And I feel like split squats,lunges, Bulgarian split squats,
these things add a lot ofcomplication for people who are
advanced or who are limited ontheir capacity of resistance

(59:02):
able to be applied.
So if you were doing bodyweightsquats regularly and you were
doing some bodyweight hinges oryou've increased to regular
squats with weight, adding asplit loads the legs
significantly differentlybecause the knees are bending,
which is one of the levers ofthe muscle.
So you're adding that bendingof the knee back behind you,

(59:25):
you're extending from the hip.
And so you wind up loading themuscle very, very excessively
for new movers, which tends tobe why when people do lunges or
split squats as a new mover,they suffer a lot more delayed
on set muscular soreness or DOMSthan they would without.
Hi.

(59:47):
Hi Patrick?
Yes.

Tom Butler (59:50):
Hi.
At this point, someone cameinto the clinic and interrupted
the interview to drop off aChristmas gift to Patrick from a
client.
When you talk to Patrick, it'sobvious that he sees the human
connection as vital to his work.
I think this was a great momentthat shows his relationship
with people.
Finish your thought as far asthe stress of the split.

(01:00:11):
Yeah.
And specifically for peoplethat aren't really advanced in
their weightlifting.

Patrick McCabe (01:00:19):
It seems like such a simple move, a lunge or a
split squat, and it seems sosimplistic.
But I tend to see a lot ofpeople just doing regular squats
have so much limitation intheir ankle mobility that they
wind up doing a hinge squatcombo where they're leaning
forward with their chest to beable to squat down, which then

(01:00:42):
is stressing the anterior andposterior without proper form.
And so if I can be able to getpeople to understand the
fundamentals of each of thosemoves and how they're different,
and then be able to alleviatesome of the tensions that might
be naturally occurring, then wecan get people stronger so that
they can take on thecomplication of adding balance,

(01:01:04):
being that you're splitting asquat or your Bulgarian squat,
squat, split squat, you'reElevating your rear leg onto a
ball or a table or a bench.
So you're creating thisexcessive instability for people
that might not be able tosupport that balance.
And then we're creating aloading factor with the

(01:01:24):
extension of that back leg, theexcessive loading of the front
leg, whether there's collapsingof the knee or not.
Then if you get that personleaning forward and hinging
because they they don't have theproper form and technique, you
start just creating a lot ofissues.

Tom Butler (01:01:38):
And so I think that absolutely describes me.
Right.
I think I'm absolutely a novicewhen it comes to lower body
weightlifting.
And I as you talk about thecompounding of different
leverages, yeah, I think it'stoo much for me.

Patrick McCabe (01:02:01):
Yeah, for somebody who's been doing
training regularly, or as I takeclients through little intro
programs or foundationalprograms, I like to say, these
might seem simple, but you haveyet to show me that you can do
these on a regular basis basedon your history.
And so show me that over thecourse of the next seven weeks,

(01:02:22):
you can do two to three days ofthese simple 10 minutes of
simple movements so that youhave the understanding that
we're we can complicate thingsand you have the drive to want
to complicate things.
But over the course of thoseseven weeks, if you get two
weeks in, and then one week islike one day, and the next week
you had life come up, great,make a pivot.

(01:02:44):
And then the next week you getone day, and then you're back
on, you did three days.
It's like cool.
Over the course of the sevenweeks, we hit about a 50, 60, 70
percent.
Let's move forward and doanother round of these same
seven weeks and show me that youcan do more and be consistent
before we start adding inunnecessary complications.
And and what that does is itjust creates that reinforced

(01:03:07):
habit of this is how I move andthis is what I'm doing.
So, for example, I always callmy cycling bibs my yoga bibs or
my strength training bibs.
Because if I'm kind ofwishy-washy about getting on the
bike and training, I just haveto put on my yoga bibs and do my
warm-up routine and my strengthroutine to mobilize and

(01:03:28):
activate, and then I can be doneif I want to.
But I already have my cyclingbibs on or my yoga bibs, and now
I just get on the bike and itjust decreases that barrier.
But it makes that thepre-movement is just as
important as getting on the bikebecause it's really easy to
pull on your bibs, get on thebike, and start pedaling without
doing any activation, anymobilization, and any kind of,

(01:03:52):
hey, I'm letting my body knowthat I'm gonna expect something
from it.
And we should have that be justas much a part of the workout
routine as the three by nineintervals that you have on the
calendar.
It's like, okay, you have anhour workout on the bike, but
what about the 15 minutes beforeand the 15 minutes after that
you should be doing somemobility work and some

(01:04:13):
preparatory work and then somecool down and some appreciation
work.
That should all be factored in.
So if you don't have an hourand a half to do your work, I'd
much rather see 15 minutes, ahalf an hour ride, and 15
minutes so that we can make surethat those are priorities until
we have the time to be able toextend that out.

(01:04:34):
But just getting rid of thoseis just going to create more
issues down the road.

Tom Butler (01:04:38):
The thing that I love about this the most is that
I'm hearing like a personaltraining mindset, right?
Yeah.
Because there's so muchobservation that you're doing of
where a person is before you'resaying, okay, let's go here.

(01:04:59):
Yeah.
And you're you're not gonna getthat from reading something,
you're not gonna get that fromwatching a video about somebody
talking in in general terms.
So that's a really interestingthing.

Patrick McCabe (01:05:14):
Because I don't know where you've been, and I
don't know where you're at rightnow.
And so that's why I always say,show me that you can do these
things, show me that you can beconsistent, because right now
I'm just going off of your wordthat yeah, you're really strong.
And and I did, you know, weighttraining uh, you know, a couple
of years ago, and I had apersonal trainer a little while

(01:05:34):
ago, and it's like, yeah,because nobody wants to say,
really, I haven't done anythingfor the last six months, and I
got really sore when I had towalk up the steps to the
building the other day.
And afterwards I was like, whyam I sore from walking up these
steps?
Nobody wants to explain thosetypes of things, and that's why,
like we talked about at thebeginning, is like creating that

(01:05:56):
space for you just to be whoyou are and not have any
expectations and not have anydirective or goals for you, but
to be able to say, Welcome,here's a space to be open and
vulnerable.
I try and be very open so thatpeople can mirror that and be
open and vulnerable so that wecan be able to support and kind
of move together versus mepushing and creating pushback.

(01:06:21):
And then from there, show mewhat capacity you have so I can
support you more.
Show me where you might need alittle bit more support so that
we can we can go far and we canget there at your timeline.

Tom Butler (01:06:36):
Well, I I like that.
So I I think that you've givenme as much information as you
can give me without challengeaccepted, without like knowing
more details without making someobservations.
So I have this dream of havinga cycling over 60 cycle cross

(01:06:59):
team next year.
I'm wondering if Grit CityHealth Cyclocross team would be
willing in a way to adopt thecycling over 60 cyclocross team
and kind of work with us to helpus, you know, get there as as
individuals.
Yeah.
And the reason I think thatthat would be great is again, I

(01:07:24):
want to after 60 years old, andif you're listening to this and
you're not yet 60 years old, thegoal is for you to start
wherever you are, 50, 59, likeme, whatever, so that you can be
cycling over 60.
But I want to be able to pushmyself and I want to encourage
other people to push themselves.

(01:07:45):
And I think doing cycle crossis a is an interesting way to
push myself.
So would you be willing, and wecan talk about details about
that some some other time, butto to kind of adopt this team of
people that want to do cyclecross over 60.

Patrick McCabe (01:08:04):
Definitely.
Nice part of the Grit CityHealth team came from just I
have a little business that Ilove.
I love what I do, and I wanteda jersey that represented my
business.
And then friends and family andother racers were like, well,
we want a jersey that representsyour business and who you are

(01:08:24):
and what you do and what youbring.
And now we have over 25 ridersthat would consider themselves a
part of Team Grit City Health.
We have so many more that are,as I call them, Grit City Health
adjacent, that you so we nowhave a team.
So it's been about three,almost four years of having a

(01:08:44):
quote-unquote cyclocross teamwhere people are coming up and
racing throughout the season.
And so, yeah, we've had quite afew different individual
privateers, solo riders, littleteams that don't have a full
team tent.
We just take on under our wingand we support them and we love
them and we offer themeverything that we have

(01:09:04):
available.
And yeah, we would love to talkmore about what that looks like
to be able to bring on cyclingover 60 and a little cyclocross
team and supporting doingpre-rides, offering the full
amenities of our tent and kindof going from there.
So yeah.

Tom Butler (01:09:19):
Well, I love it.
I'm excited.
And so I I I think we shouldwrap this up now, but I think
that there's there's a lot ofthings I'd like to talk about,
and we'll have to brainstormanother episode together at some
point.
But I want to thank you so muchfor taking the time to have
this conversation and taking thetime to listen to the other

(01:09:43):
podcast and re reflect on that.
And I'm excited about likereally learning some cool things
from you.

Patrick McCabe (01:09:50):
Yeah, it was my pleasure, and I really
appreciate you having me on hereand even just asking me for my
thoughts.
Fantastic.
Well, okay, we'll be talkingmore.
Sounds great.
Bye now.

Tom Butler (01:09:59):
Thank you.
Maybe the biggest thing thatcame out of the conversation
with Patrick for me was theconcept of minimally effective
dose with the maximalrecoverable amount.
There are two aspects of thisfor me.
First, I want my rides to beeffective but also fun.

(01:10:22):
So at times, I'm not reallygoing to be analyzing my riding
too much.
I'm just going to go out andhave fun.
But otherwise, I'm going towant to know how to get an
effective dose of cycling toimprove my performance.
The second thing I think aboutis that I feel nervous about my
ability to recover.
I've seen some things thatreally make me think that I'm

(01:10:44):
not recovering as well as Ishould.
I've already said that I thinkrecovery needs to be a major
focus of cycling over 60, somaybe it's helpful if that's a
big need for me, because mypersonal journey will help
everybody else who are alsointerested in how to maximize
recovery.
There are so many strategies toachieve recovery, and also so
many ways to prepare for ridingthat reduce damage.

(01:11:06):
Patrick made it clear that heexpects a pre-ride routine to
get in the best place to performwhile riding.
There's certainly going to be alot of things here to study.
It's a bit disappointing to methat I'm going to have to focus
on a pre-ride routine.
I very much like the idea justjumping on the bike and going.
But I also want to make surethat I'm doing what I need to do

(01:11:27):
because I want to be cyclingfor a very long time.
I hope you, like me, experiencethe best year of cycling so far
in 2025.
And I want to wish everybody ahappy new year, and here's to a
fantastic 2026.
Now remember, age is just agear charge.