Goodbye Diabetes Author Dr. Wes Youngberg

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Host Tom Butler is back and sharing about his progress to add an upper body strength focus in 2025. This week, Tom is joined by Dr. Wes Youngberg, a clinician with nearly 40 years of experience helping people with metabolic dysfunction, including type 2 diabetes. Dr. Youngberg will share his insights on the latest research and strategies for reversing type 2 diabetes.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to improve their overall health and fitness. Tom and Dr. Youngberg will discuss the importance of exercise, diet, and other lifestyle factors in managing type 2 diabetes. They'll also explore the latest research on the potential to reverse the condition.

Listen in as they delve into the latest information on reversing type 2 diabetes, Dr. Youngberg's insights on managing metabolic dysfunction, and tips for improving your overall health and fitness.

Link
To get a copy of Dr. Youngberg's document clinical guidelines for reversing diabetes, email him at [e-mail] 

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Episode Transcript

Tom Butler (00:04):
This is the Cycling Over 60 podcast, season three,
episode 15, goodbye Diabetes.
Author Dr Wes Youngberg, andI'm your host, tom Butler.
The interview this week is along one, so I'm going to get

(00:26):
right into it.
First, however, I do want toreport that I'm very happy that
I've done two weeks in a row ofupper body workouts.
The main message here is thatit's important to keep trying.
Despite massively failing lastyear to meet my upper body
workout goal, I am now on trackfor a better year.
Primarily, I think this isbecause I'm getting a lot of
good support from those cheeringme on.

(00:48):
No matter what habit you aretrying to change, keep going,
even if you stumble, and keepworking on strategies to keep
you on track.
The interview this week is oneof the most knowledgeable people
on the planet when it comes toreversing type 2 diabetes.
Wes Youngberg has a doctorateof public health and preventive
care and is one of the foundersof the American College of
Lifestyle Medicine.
He is the author of three booksGoodbye Diabetes, hello Health

(01:13):
and Memory Makeover.
He has a private practice inTemecula, california, where he
brings close to 40 years ofclinical experience to help
patients make crucial lifestylechanges that can restore healthy
metabolic functioning.
There is a lot more about hisexperience that comes out in our
discussion, and here we go.
I am extremely happy to behaving the conversation with my
guest today.

(01:34):
Thank you, wes Youngberg, forjoining me.

Wes Youngberg (01:37):
Hey, it's great to be here with you, Tom.

Tom Butler (01:43):
You have played a huge role in my understanding of
diabetes and I am so glad thatlisteners of the podcast are
getting to hear from you.
I want to start out this wayyou have been interested in
healthy lifestyles for as longas I've known you.
I'm guessing that intereststarted early in life.

Wes Youngberg (02:00):
Yeah, you know, tom Chris, we've known each
other since college days, youknow, and then we were roommates
at Loma Linda University.
You know, we were together atwhat we call the Rain Swamp
right, where a whole bunch of usstudents were living together,
and boy we had quite the life,didn't we?

Tom Butler (02:20):
Yes.

Wes Youngberg (02:21):
We had our own Doberman mascots and life was
good back then, just basically aband of brothers just hanging
out together and supporting eachother.
But what really got mepassionate, tom, about what I
call lifestyle medicine now ismy parents were Christian

(02:45):
missionaries in South Americaand that's where I was born.
I was born in Chile.
I recently had a patient thatwas from Chile like hey, I was
born in Chile, you know they'relike what.
And anyways, while there, mymother was diagnosed with
glioblastoma brain cancer andthat was at age 39.

(03:09):
I was nine, 10 years old at thetime and kind of I witnessed,
you know, my mom going from asuper dynamic, fit, exciting
person to be around.
I love my mom.
I was a total mama's boy right,I loved her.
And to witness her just godownhill so quickly with
glioblastoma, I remember sayingto myself, tom, I were actually

(03:35):
I was raking leaves in BeringSprings, michigan, one autumn
afternoon with my father aboutthree years after my mom had
passed away.
So I was about 13.
And you know you can only talkabout the you know Chicago
Cubbies and other stuff for solong before finally we got to

(03:56):
some really serious conversationbecause a lot of leaves in our
yard on Greenfield Drive therein Berrien Springs, michigan,
and I said, dad, why did mom dieof cancer?
I literally asked that questionand you know he didn't know what
to say.
We were raking leaves togetherand he just stopped and you know

(04:17):
, kind of was looking down theroad and trying to come up with
an answer for his 13-year-oldson and I remember, before he
had a chance to say anything Ifinally said I said, dad, I wish
I knew right now what my risksare so I could start doing
something about it now.
And without realizing it at thetime, that was literally the

(04:42):
watershed moment in my life thatkind of shifted my perspective
into learning everything I couldabout health so that I could do
my if I could be my best rightat protecting myself against
what happened to my mom.
Because you know, my mom wasthis super healthy, well
individual and all of a suddenshe was gone from a devastating

(05:05):
disease.
So that really impacted me, tom, into, you know, wanting to
figure this out.
And of course that's how Iended up, you know, at Loma
Linda studying health science,preventive care and lifestyle
medicine.

Tom Butler (05:22):
Well, when you started there at Loma Linda it
was called the Health SciencesDepartment at the School of
Health.
Now it's called the Doctorateof Public Health in Preventive
Care.

Wes Youngberg (05:38):
Right.

Tom Butler (05:38):
And so what about that program?
Kind of captured you, you know,coming out of this experience
where, like you said, you wantedto learn everything you could
about what risk factors and whatto do about risk factors.

Wes Youngberg (05:52):
Well, you know it's interesting.
You know we all got to knoweach other at Andrews University
in Michigan and college and awhole bunch of our other
roommates that we had had alsomoved from Michigan to
California about the same time.
I'd studied health and physicaleducation in college and I
wasn't planning to teach or todo that, and so I was always

(06:15):
planning to go on to graduateeducation.
So I was trying to decide whatto do and most of our friends
went into medicine and I had alot of relatives, a lot of
uncles and aunts and cousinsthat were in traditional
medicine, going to medicalschool.
And while that intrigued me, Ikind of knew already that I
wanted to do something different.
I wanted to understand.

(06:37):
I really wanted to get intounderstanding disease from a
preventive standpoint.
And of course, as you know, tom, there's three levels of
prevention.
There's primary prevention,secondary prevention, where
you're dealing with, you know,risk factor management, and then
you got tertiary prevention,where you already have a disease

(06:58):
but you're trying to protectagainst progression of that
disease, and so that in mypractice I deal with all three
levels of prevention.
But, you know, the mostmotivated people are the ones
that either have a seriousfamily history and so they're
doing primary and secondaryprevention within that context.
But really the most motivatedare the ones that already have

(07:19):
some major disease, already haveAlzheimer's, they already have
diabetes, they already have notto just equate the two as being
of equal concern, or heartdisease or whatever it might be
and my role with them is to helpthem figure out how to reverse
back out of that scenario andprevent further progression but

(07:42):
also really improve and, ifpossible, reverse their disease.
I actually moved to Loma LindaUniversity to study physical
therapy.
That was going to be my seconddegree and I was really looking
forward to it because I had anuncle who's a physiatrist, a
medical doctor in, basically,physical therapy, so he had his

(08:03):
own rehab hospital inPennsylvania and he'd been
instrumental in helping my momwhen she was sick.
We'd actually lived there withthem for the first six months
after her surgery.
I actually got approved to gothere and I went to the first
day of orientation at Loma Lindaand one one of my and my uncle

(08:27):
who's the physiatrist he said,wes, you know, I always thought
of you going into health scienceor preventive care and I said,
well, you know, I thought aboutthat orientation with two

(08:48):
doctors, dr David Neiman and DrRichard Neal, at the School of
Health at Loma Linda University.
Of course they were both beingreal political.
Like oh, you're alreadyenrolled in this program, why
don't you finish physicaltherapy and then you can do the
doctoral program?
I go like hey, I already got acollege degree.
After looking at the curriculumI was just like are you kidding
me?
Like are you just like keepingthis a secret from the rest of

(09:10):
the world?
And because this was exactlywhat I wanted, you know as much
as I would have loved andenjoyed doing physical therapy
In fact I still teach in thephysical therapy program from
time to time.
So I love physical therapystudents.
They're a great group of people.
But I wanted to really get intolifestyle medicine more broadly

(09:33):
and clinically.
I literally transferred thatday, that first day in my PT
program, into what was called atthe time the Doctor of Health
Science program, which wasessentially clinical preventive
care.
Some people would refer to itas clinical preventive medicine
from a fundamental lifestylemedicine perspective.

(09:54):
So yeah, that's how thathappened.
It was kind of like, you know,being in the right place at the
right time kind of thing.
You know, divine appointmentsall the way through.

Tom Butler (10:02):
Well, it's kind of funny because I know that the
physical therapy program is likein the same building, like down
the hall, Exactly.

Wes Youngberg (10:09):
It was like really strange you know that all
the other doctors, theprofessors, were like, oh you
know you should, you should justfinish the program.
I'm going like, listen, I knowwhat you're doing, man, you
should just finish the program.
I'm going like, listen, I knowwhat you're doing, man, this is
what I want to do.
And so you know, I had oneprerequisite left that I hadn't

(10:32):
finished, and that was actuallyorganic chemistry.
And so they said you got tohave organic chemistry in order
to get officially approved intothis program.
And you know, the program wasstarting at the end of the
summer.
And so, like in about eight,ten weeks or maybe eight weeks.

(10:52):
And so they say, go down toValley College there in San
Bernardino and see if you canget into the organic chemistry
program, because registrationwas that day.
Literally that day I day, I golike what so?
So I, I rush over aregistration table.
There's dr anderson, you knowthe organic chemistry teacher,

(11:13):
sitting at his table.
And so I said he said I want toregister for your class.
And he goes like, young man,class is full, like like what.
So I?
So I tell him.
I tell him no, no, no, I got totake your class because I
needed to get into my doctoralprogram.
And he said you know, sorry,but you know we have, we're full

(11:33):
, See.
He said I tell you what cometomorrow morning eight o'clock
and I'm going to read the rosterand if one person doesn't show
up, it's your spot, I go great,all right.
So I literally get there first,I'm the first one in the door,
I'm sitting on the front row,you know, and they just sweating

(11:54):
bricks, you know.
And so Dr Anderson read all thenames off and one person hadn't
showed up and he goes Youngberg, you're in.
So that's how I got to be inthe program that first year.
Otherwise I had to wait a wholenother year to get in.

Tom Butler (12:09):
That's an incredible story.
Now you had an interestingmoment while in graduate school
that I was there for and that'srelated to your own cholesterol
levels.
Can you talk about whathappened and then what effect
that had on your thinking aboutlifestyle disease?

Wes Youngberg (12:26):
It was interesting.
I was actually taking a classcalled Lifestyle Diseases and
Risk Reduction from Dr RichardNeal.
He was this amazing statesmanof a doctor.
He was an African-Americandoctor, all good looking, most
articulate professor that Ithink I had the entire time I

(12:48):
was at Loma Linda University andhe he was really great at
talking about preventivemedicine and lifestyle medicine
and and and so one of the one ofthe responsibilities in that
class a lot of people in thatclass were actually preventive
medicine residents.
They were doing theirpost-medical work and

(13:14):
specializing in preventivemedicine.
So we had people fresh out ofcollege like me that was just
going into a four-year programon lifestyle medicine, college
like me that was just going intoa four-year program on
lifestyle medicine.
Then we had other people thatliterally had, you know, maybe
five to eight years moreexperience than I did in the
same class clinically, and so wehad to give presentations.

(13:37):
And so this was 1984.
This is my freshman year in theprogram at Loma Linda and you
may recall, tom, that in 1984,drs Brown and Goldstein won the
Nobel Prize for Medicine forelucidating the role of
cholesterol in promotingcardiovascular disease.

(14:00):
Now, of course, this wasbecause there was a lot of big
pharma, big pharma money behindthat elucidation.
Prior to 1984 hardly anyphysician believed cholesterol
had anything to do with heartdisease.
Okay, and in fact you can go.

(14:20):
I used to go through the papercharts and in the paper charts
I'd go up.
Before 1984, the referencerange on a normal cholesterol
level started at 130 and went upto 320.
So if your cholesterol is like310, you're normal, was like 310

(14:48):
, you're normal.
You know that was in the normal, that was in the what was
considered to be the 95% whichmost labs that we do medically
are based on.
You know the normative, twostandard deviations from the
norm, from the mean right, andso if you fall within that 95%
of the population, you're normalor you're within reference.
So it was only after 1984 thatthat was changed, that the

(15:09):
cholesterol now needs to beunder 200, which is less than
halfway less than the median.
So in other words, almosteverybody, or 75% of the adult
population at that point, wouldthen be put on Mevacor, which
was the statin of the day, andso a lot of doctors said this is

(15:30):
a big scam.
There's no way that 75% ofAmericans should just
automatically qualify for amedication who's never been
fully vetted long-term for morethan four years, right, because
of the cancer question.
So, anyways, I got to give apresentation on this topic
because I was, you know, I waslearning, along with everybody

(15:53):
else, so I talked about how youknow, all the new research
indicating that cholesterol wasrelated to heart disease.
You know, I have differentperspectives now.
I mean, I think cholesterol hasa role but, nowhere near as big
of a role like what we'retalking about, like blood sugars
or even blood pressure, orthere's so many other risk

(16:16):
factors that are far, far, farmore important in terms of
causing heart disease than ahigh cholesterol.
Okay so, but but at the time,you know, we, we knew what we
knew and and so I actually washired by the school there to

(16:37):
actually start running basicallyscreening cholesterol levels
with a mobile monitor that wasliterally the big is like a
computer, and I would go to themalls and other places and other
departments and screen people'scholesterol.
It's part of the NationalCholesterol Education Program.

(16:58):
So I was like, hey, you know,everybody's got to check their
cholesterol.
And so one of my classmates wasa med tech undergrad and she
said, hey, wes, a whole bunch ofus, are getting together, we're
going to get our blood drawn atthe Loma Linda Medical Center

(17:20):
and we're going to have a lipidprofile, a full cholesterol
profile, total cholesterol, ldl,triglyceride, hdl, so forth.
So I go like, great, you know.
So I'm thinking I'm Mr Fitness,right, I'm thinking I have this
inflated health ego like I'msuper healthy.
Because, you know, honestly, Iwas paying attention and I

(17:42):
thought I was at least, and Iwas doing everything possible to
be healthy, because that was mygoal, that was my passion.
So I went and had my blooddrawn, you know, and I'm going
like, yeah, this is going tocome back good.
And I already knew what all thecharts said, that you know
somebody, my age well, I was 24at the time.
Should you know, if I'm goingto be in the healthiest 20% of

(18:03):
the population, my cholesterolis going to be?
You know the way I viewed it.
At least my cholesterol wouldbe about, you know, 140, 150 at
the most.
Right, because you know, allthrough college I had always
worked out to be in the upper95th percentile of fitness and
I've been able to pull that off.

(18:24):
I worked out regularly.
So when I did my AFER testing,I actually was fitter than 95%
of my classmates in the field ofphysical education.
So I thought I was pretty fit,right.
So then I saw Lori was her nameMedTech, that was in our

(18:47):
doctorate program.
I saw her at school, right Atthe School of Health, and so I
was, you know, walking towardsher, going like, great, I'm
going to find out.
You know that I'm really evenfitter than I think.
I am right, and she had thisworried.
Look on her face and she saysWes, I'm a little concerned
about your cholesterol.
I thought she was messing withme.

(19:08):
I really did.
I thought she was just pullingmy trick.
And so then she said no, look,look, she showed me the paper my
cholesterol is 244.
So I was off the chart.
I was like way above 95thpercentile, and only in this

(19:32):
case in the wrong direction,right.
And so that's what kind ofpopped my Mr Fitness and
wellness bubble.
It made me realize that maybe Iwasn't as healthy as I thought
I was.
And along the same line here,tom, especially as we're talking
about how this relates to otherconditions like diabetes and

(19:55):
what we've been doing with youand so forth, about 10 years ago
I actually decided to bite thebullet and do a 23andMe saliva
test, genetic analysis, and Ireally didn't want to do it at
first because I was totallyaware about the privacy concerns
and you know that eventuallythis was going to get into the

(20:18):
wrong hands.
You know I knew all that wasgoing to happen, and indeed that
has happened.
You know, knew all that wasgoing to happen and indeed that
has happened.
You know they've had major lableaks and and, uh, you know, uh,
basically, they got um totallyhacked, uh, last year.
But I I remember saying tomyself even if the whole world
finds out what my geneticmutations are, at least I'll

(20:42):
know, and that's really the mostimportant thing.
And so I realized that if Idon't know what my weaknesses
are and therefore I don't knowhow to manipulate that
information to my benefit, I'mlosing out, so, regardless of
what other people might do withit.
So when I did that test, tom, Idiscovered that I had a major

(21:06):
blood clotting mutation calledfactor V Leiden, and because I
found out, I shared this with myfamily and my extended family,
my cousins and relatives, andmany of them had the same
mutation which, depending onwhat studies you read, up to an

(21:26):
800% greater risk of having adeep vein thrombosis, pulmonary
embolism, a stroke, a heartattack, massive.
So all of a sudden it hit me,tom.
It hit me when I was in college.
Before I found out.
This was when I was like 22,before I found out that my
cholesterol was sky high.

(21:47):
I went to the funeral of one ofmy uncles who was a physician,
an ER doctor in Fort Worth,texas, who had a massive heart
attack while working in the ERone night and he literally died
on the floor of the ER.
So you know, if you're a doctorin the ER and you die of a

(22:10):
massive heart attack, that's abad, bad heart attack, right?
And so undoubtedly he had thistype of mutation as well, but he
didn't know about it.
Later I discovered that otheruncles had had blood clots in
their legs and my grandfatherdied of a massive heart attack
due to a blood clot.
And so, like whoa, okay.

(22:31):
So because I did that genetictest, and only because of it, it
actually made me aware of allthe other issues.
It made sense that I had such astrong family history of heart
disease that's related to bloodclotting, and so cholesterol
really wasn't the issuePrimarily.

(22:52):
The issue is blood clottingrisk and all the factors that
lead up to that.
And so I actually, when Idiscovered that time, I didn't
go like, oh no, this is horrible.
I didn't go, whoa, it's me.
I actually smiled when I sawthat test and I said, wow, this
is great news, because now Ihave one more thing that I can

(23:13):
do to fix, to prevent whateverotherwise might have happened to
me or in the future.
So the reason this story from myyouth, you know when I was 24
is so important is because a lotof us are hesitant to do
testing, because we're a littleafraid about what we might

(23:36):
discover.
And my point, all along withall my patients, is like hey,
the more things we discover thatare risk factors in your
physiology, the greater thepotential that we can improve
your health.
Because if I don't findanything wrong with you, I can't

(23:58):
help you, right, there'snothing that we can do.
But if I can find five thingsthat need to be fixed now,
you're going to be that muchhealthier.
But if we find 20 things thatwe can fix, you're going to be
that much healthier.
So that's the goal is embrace,finding things that give us

(24:19):
direction on what to do.

Tom Butler (24:21):
Well, I remember it really clearly in the things
that you were saying at the time, because they were significant,
because you were very fit, yourdiet, your activity levels, the
, the choices that you made you.
You were being thorough, asabout anybody who's 24 years old

(24:43):
would be at the time, and Iremember you talking about.
You know this is the power ofgenetics.
You know now you wouldn't lookat a 245 total cholesterol the
same way today as maybe you wereback then.
But at the same time, I thinkthat that moment of saying, okay
, there's, there's an element inhere when we're talking about

(25:07):
lifestyle disease that also hasto be considered, is there.
We do have a genetic makeupthat we bring to the table.

Wes Youngberg (25:16):
Right, no question about it.
No question about it.

Tom Butler (25:20):
While you were in graduate school, there was the
formation of the AmericanCollege of Lifestyle Medicine.
Today that's a reallyprestigious organization.
Can you talk about thatorganization's beginning?

Wes Youngberg (25:36):
Actually, the American College of Lifestyle
Medicine wasn't started untilafter I graduated.
In fact it started in the year2000.
So I graduated in 1988.
But around the year 1990, abouttwo years after I graduated, I
started an organization calledAmerican Preventive Care

(25:58):
Association.
This is mainly for many of mycolleagues that had gone through
that very unique doctoralprogram in lifestyle medicine at
Loma Linda University.
So there was at that timethere's really only about 200,
300 of us, and so I started itfor us and it served its purpose
for three to four years untilwe started talking about making

(26:25):
something big for everybody,especially my medical colleagues
.
And so it was probably in 1999,year 2000, that Dr John Kelly,
who was a older student that hadgone through medicine, he had
started medical school in his40s and he was actually in

(26:48):
insurance.
He was in health insurance, sohe was kind of a cerebral, you
know, money cruncher type and hehad a real passion to get into
lifestyle medicine.
So he went through medicine andwe got to know each other that
way.
I was president of the Schoolof Public Health Alumni

(27:09):
Association at the time and so,which just meant I got to pick a
lot of the speakers to come,you know at the yearly
conferences and so we got toknow each other during that time
and he said hey, wes, can youhelp me put together a unique
academic college, a society ofdoctors that's called the

(27:32):
American College of LifestyleMedicine.
So he was our first president.
He just got honored at theyearly meetings last year in
Florida.
We started out just like sevenof us right, and now it's like
we have like 5,000 members.
It's an international society.
You can become board certifiedin lifestyle medicine.

(27:55):
While I was on the board, I wason the board of directors from
the beginning for about 10 years.
I helped set up the fellow.
You know how to become a fellowand because I set it up, I was
the first fellow right.
I got.
Okay, I'm going to apply firsthere because I set up the
criteria and so, yeah, it's agreat organization that is

(28:21):
primarily there for everybodythat's in healthcare, not just
physicians and not just peopleand physicians who have gone
through preventive medicineresidency.
But really you can be in anyspecialty of medicine or
healthcare, okay, and thensubspecialize in lifestyle
medicine.

(28:41):
So we had ophthalmologistssubspecializing in lifestyle
medicine.
Why?
Because lifestyle has a lot todo with eye health.
You know you can be anendocrinologist, obviously, and
subspecialized in lifestylemedicine because you know we
clearly understand that how youlive has a huge impact on

(29:04):
hormonal health and, of course,diabetes is part of
endocrinology and so forth.
So, no matter what specialtyyou are even we even have
physicians that are er doctorsor surgeons that sub-specialize
in lifestyle medicine it appliesto everybody and so right now,
that's the unique draw intolifestyle medicine is that you

(29:26):
can do it regardless of whatyour main specialty is.
You just incorporate that intoyour practice of whatever you do
.

Tom Butler (29:36):
When you step back and look at those early years,
when there are like 300 of yougetting together and talking
about stuff, it's kind of hardtoday to really kind of grasp
how different it was theconversations that you would
have at your meetings.

Wes Youngberg (29:55):
Yeah, that's true .
I remember you know I gave manyof the keynote presentations
because you know we're afledgling organization.
You know, at one point wealmost went bankrupt and now I
think we have like $20 millionin the bank or something.
You know like.
You know it's a bigorganization.

(30:16):
Now it's been well run, we havea great executive director that
is taking us to whole newlevels and so and of course it's
an organization that it's timeit's come right.
The whole world needs andunderstands their need for

(30:38):
lifestyle medicine, foraddressing the cause of the
problem, rather than justlooking for, you know, fancier
and fancier band-aids to put onthe problem the problem.

Tom Butler (30:57):
Well, you know, good job to you for being a part of
helping to create anorganization like that.
That has provided education fora lot of people, so I just
think that that's a great thingyou've done.

Wes Youngberg (31:07):
Yeah, thanks, tom .
You know, just a couple weeksago I was asked to give a couple
hour lecture to family medicineresidents at Loma Linda
University, and so there wasabout about 35 first, second,
third year medical residentsthere at my presentation and

(31:28):
what I did is I focused onAlzheimer's and diabetes
basically my two favoritegeneral topics, and of course,
to address those effectively yougot to fix everything.
You can't just fix a few things.
You got to fix as many thingsas possible, including
optimizing the immune system,which is really something that a

(31:48):
lot of doctors haven't reallyunderstood.
Effectively, if you don't havea really good immune system,
you're basically you'redestroying the beta cells of
your pancreas and you're alsodestroying the cells in the
hippocampi of the brain whichare memory cells.
So you got to have a good,strong immune system.

(32:11):
But while there, one of thethings that I'm really proud of
that I was, just I was kind ofthe talking head for a program
that's called Diabetes Undone,which was organized by a team of
professionals that based on myexperience from the last 30

(32:34):
years well, now, 40 years ofexperience with diabetes and so
the Diabetes Undone program is aturnkey program that has 40
videos, has a workbook and acookbook and basically it's
how-to.
So I just had a patient today,tom, who was referred by his
primary care physician becausehe's got diabetes and he wants

(33:02):
to reverse his diabetes.
Naturally, he doesn't just wantto go on the latest and best
medications, because he'sconcerned about some of those
side effects, and so we had areally great session this
morning.
So I said here, just get onthis Diabetes Undone class.
You can watch it with your wifeat home and that'll show you

(33:22):
everything that you need to doto be able to reverse this.
And, of course, I gave you that11-page document that talks
about reversing insulinresistance and trying to regain
and restore beta cell functionto the pancreas, the ability to
make insulin as well.
And, by the way, anybodylistening to this podcast that

(33:44):
wants a copy of that just simplyemail, just go to my website,
drjungbergcom, and all mycontact info is there.
Email me and we'll send it toyou.
We'll send you that PDF.
You can share it with anybodyyou want.
It's not copyrighted.
It's basically 21 strategies onhow to dramatically improve

(34:06):
your blood sugars.
And so I shared that with theresidents, tom, and they like,
loved it, like wow, yeah, thisis what we need.
You know, that goes beyond just.
Here's the new medicine, youknow.
Good luck.

Tom Butler (34:21):
It's really interesting to me.
You know this aspect of it.
This is what we need.
You know, if you go back whenyou first got out of school.
Pretty soon after you got outof school I don't remember
exactly when, but you ended upheading off to the island of
Guam and my understanding isthat being there allowed you to

(34:46):
be a part of the clinical careteam, maybe in a different way
than you could have beenelsewhere.

Wes Youngberg (34:54):
It kind of fast-tracked me.
You know, I was reallyfortunate, tom.
When I left academics at LomaLinda.
My first job was I was directorof corporate wellness at Loma
Linda University School ofPublic Health.
And then that whole.
There was a big upheavalpolitically at the university

(35:14):
where and you know differencesof opinion amongst the top
echelons of administration theyliterally tried to close the
School of Public Health down andwhen they finally realized that
that was a really bad decision,they just kind of reframed it
and so I ended up leaving myfull-time faculty position at

(35:37):
Loma Linda University.
Because of that.
And I always tell my friendsand especially anybody anybody
is like is struggling with maybepotentially losing a job, for
whatever reason, I say you know,the two best things that ever
happened to me professionallywas losing my job.
I kid you not, that's literallythe two best things that could

(36:02):
ever happen to me professionally.
When I lost my job at LomaLinda, along with pretty much
every other faculty member ofthe School of Public Health,
because of what they were tryingto do at the time.
But that forced me out of.
I loved academics, I loved theenvironment, you know,
stimulating, and I started allkinds of other programs while I
was there, but it wasn'tactually my main forte I didn't

(36:26):
realize at the time.
So that forced me into clinicalwork and so I started working
with the Loma Linda facultymedical, a faculty medical group
that was in Sun City, which isa retirement community on the
way to San Diego, just justsouth of Loma Linda.
So I started working there, andthen also in Ocean Beach, which

(36:49):
is also San Diego.
So I started doing clinicalwork four days a week and in a
medical group setting.
And so while at the Sun Cityoffice I met Dr Charles
Brennerger, who is the directorof the Diabetes Treatment Center
at Loma Linda and had been fordecades, and became close

(37:11):
friends with him.
He would refer a lot ofpatients to me and we ended up
working together in Guam forthree years.
It was really cool While I wasthere and while I was involved
with the school from a alumniassociation standpoint.
As president of the alumniassociation during that time I

(37:34):
was asked if I would be willingto go as a medical missionary to
Guam.
And I go, like Guam.
Where's that?
You know, like I have no ideawhere Guam is, you know, and I
was like, why would I want to dothat?
We were.
I was working with some of mycolleagues to set up a preferred
provider organization inSouthern California.
We had all these plans, youknow, to bring lifestyle

(37:54):
medicine to all the groups.
While we were doing that, Iactually became very impressed
that we should go to Guam.
It's one of those things whereyou call them divine
appointments.
God made it really clear thatthat's where he wanted me to be,
and so I ended up being therefor 14 years, tom, and from 1994
to 2008.

(38:15):
And yes, while there, Ibasically set up a department of
lifestyle medicine for a largeoutpatient clinic.
You know, we had like 300employees, so it's a big medical
group and I remember I went towhen I first moved there, they
set up a meet and greet sessionwith other doctors in the

(38:37):
community, and so they wouldcome up to me and they say, hey,
so you know what do youspecialize in?
And I'd tell them and they wouldlaugh.
They'd be like you're going to,you're going to, you're going
to try to change people's dietsand reverse diabetes.
To change people's diets andreverse diabetes.
Are you kidding me?
You can't reverse diabetes.

(38:57):
You know we've never, ever seenanything like that.
You know, I mean, you know theywere, they were just being
sincere, you know, like they golike, wow, you know that's.
You know, good luck to you.
They would say, you know, butyou know, they just didn't
believe it was possible and so,and so I took up the challenge.
And what was really cool aboutGuam it's a very tight knit

(39:18):
society where, where, what'swhat's unique about Guam is that
you have, you have, you know,like the governor's wife and the
senators hanging out with thelowest socioeconomic people too,
in groups and they all getalong great, you know, because
they're like a big family,basically, literally that's what

(39:38):
they are.
It's just a big family andwonderful, loving people, and
and so what I, what I realized,is that everybody was thirsty
for, for knowledge.
You know, they, they.
There was a diabetes death rateon the island of Guam that was
five times that of the USmainland at the time and it

(40:00):
wasn't that great here, right.
So it was a very serious issue,but largely it was an issue of
hopelessness, like, oh yeah, Igot diabetes, so I'm going to
end up with an amputation and goblind and have kidney failure,
just like aunt mary and unclejoe did right.
So they literally it was thedefeatist mindset once you get

(40:22):
diagnosed, you know it's over,okay, and um.
And so my role was to changethat perspective, and so I did a
lot of education in thecommunity.
The government was calling meevery week hey, can you give a
talk over here?
We're having a conference onSaipan, can you give a talk
there?
So I was literally going, I wasgiving talks everywhere, okay,

(40:43):
around not just Guam, but allthe Micronesian islands.
And then the governor of Guam,which was a brilliant politician
, he realized that he wasbasically wanting to be a
governor second term as well,and so he actually created

(41:05):
certain initiatives, includingone initiative which was the
prevention of diabetes on Guam.
Which was the prevention ofdiabetes on Guam.
So they asked me to head upthis task force, which was, you
know, basically it was apolitical attempt to ingratiate
himself with the population,right, you know, it was a really

(41:31):
wise or smart, astute thing forhim to do.
But most of the doctors aregoing like, are you kidding me?
Like who's going to believethat that's possible?
Right, this is so funny, Tom.
I ran into this one guy who ishe was an ER doctor from Laguna
Beach who had been contracted byWAM Health and Human Services
to run some workshops, and Iforget for who, but somehow we

(41:54):
hooked up.
You know, I just ran into himsomewhere and he goes like, hey,
you know, we should do lunch,right?
So he takes me out to Thai foodand he's super funny guy, super
you know, um neat guy to talkto, and.
And so he says, hey, yeah, man,before we get the food, let me
tell you something.
I saw something in the paperthat just cracked me up, so that

(42:14):
there's this initiative.
There's this initiative in thepaper that it's all about, you
know, reversing or preventingdiabetes on the island.
Can you believe that they wouldactually put that in the paper?
And so I let him go through thatwhole thing for about five
minutes and then I said, hey,john, you know I'm the author of

(42:37):
that initiative, I'm in chargeof that task force.
And he looked at me, he wasn'tsure if I was messing with him
or not.
And then he goes like, oh well,I guess I got something to
learn, don't I?
And so you know, it was justkind of funny, but you know.
And I say, hey, and so you know, it was just kind of funny.
But you know, and I say, hey,john, you know, I totally get it
, man, you're, you're just.
You know, that's what I wastaught in school too.

(42:58):
You know, you're just, you'rejust rehashing what you learned.
And you went through school alot before I did and said but
the good news is that this ispreventable and it's even
reversible.
You're like what thisreversible?
You know, because he's an ERdoc.
He said, oh, we've never evenconsidered that possible.
You know, because he sees allthe polyopathies, you know, all

(43:20):
the pathologies that come fromout of control diabetes.
You know, and that's what setme up to be able to write my
book Goodbye Diabetes, becauseI'm not a writer per se.
My publisher hired a nurse tobasically full-time spend a year

(43:40):
with me and we would meet forthree to four hours every other
day, like three to four times aweek, and she could type faster
than I could talk.
And so we met at Mr Kebabsright on Jefferson Street here
in Temecula three nights a week.
You know, he got lentil soupand a salad, you know, and

(44:01):
falafels, you know.
And we did that for a wholeyear and that's how the book was
written.
The Goodbye Diabetes waswritten, and she was a masterful
writer, but she would alwaystype out a manuscript of what we
talked about.
Bring them back to me.
I'm like no, no, no, that's notwhat I said, you know we'd

(44:24):
change it around.
So it took us twice as long towrite the book that we thought,
but it ended up being an amazingbook on the latest on lifestyle
medicine strategies toliterally reverse diabetes in
most cases.
But the real goal isn'tnecessarily to reverse diabetes.

(44:44):
The real goal is to prevent thecomplications of diabetes,
because that's the only reasondiabetes has a name because of
its complications.
Okay, so there are some peoplethat are really more like type 1
diabetics, that have lost, youknow, 98% of their ability to
produce insulin, and so thosepeople can still dramatically

(45:06):
improve their health, but theymay still have to take some
medications to make up thedifference.
But I'm telling you, tom,literally, I believe at least
80%, if not higher, of peoplewho currently are labeled as
type 2 diabetics or basically,in other words, their blood

(45:27):
sugar meets the criteria fordiabetes in some way.
At least 80% of them canreverse their diabetes, even if
they've had it for 20, 30 years.

Tom Butler (45:38):
Well, I think that's really powerful because, again,
it's coming from 40 years ofexperience of seeing, case after
case after case after case.

Wes Youngberg (45:46):
And you know what got me into this, tom?
We were actually roommates atthe time at the Green Monster,
this swamp, and it was literallya swamp.
In 1985, that was my secondyear, In fact it was actually
the end of my first year oftraining, so it was the 84-85
school year in the spring we hada special seminar series that

(46:11):
was sponsored by the School ofPublic Health and they brought
out Dr James Anderson, who wasthe chief endocrinologist at the
University of Kentucky atLexington, and he presented a
lecture that just blew me away.
You know that's when I realizedthat I was gonna be going into
tertiary preventive care.

(46:32):
He basically treated brittlehardcore diabetics that were
actually lean.
They were not the obese,typical diabetic right, they
were lean diabetics that werebasically advanced and he
reversed diabetes and 90 of themwithout even exercise.
He just, in the hospital, putthem on a, on a high fiber

(46:57):
plant-based diet in 1970s, andso he'd been publishing studies
on reversing diabetes.
That you know, basically over50 years ago.
And so when I learned that in1985, I go like, oh man, this is
like, this is what I want to do.

(47:17):
Right, and I kept thinking whyam I not hearing this from
everybody?
Why is this only coming fromsome guy from University of
Kentucky?
You know he's a topendocrinologist, but yet
nobody's paying attention to him, at least not enough.
And so I started becoming theevangelist about reversing

(47:38):
diabetes, and so you know therest of this story, how I got in
to Guam and wrote the book andnow have my own clinic helping
people do the same.

Tom Butler (47:49):
Well, it's wild because you know you get that
focus.
Then you go to a place Guamthat becomes a very unique
laboratory for rolling out whatyou want to roll out, you know,
from a perspective of prevalencein the population, from some of
the social dynamics in thepopulation.

(48:09):
It really was like a greatlaboratory to kind of perfect
things.
What year did Goodbye Diabetescome out?

Wes Youngberg (48:18):
Oh, I think it was 2015.
I think it was 2015.

Tom Butler (48:22):
Okay, so that's a number of years after this
presentation that you heard that.
You know that's saying, hey, weneed to think about this
differently.
But when the book came out, didyou get pushback, Was it?

Wes Youngberg (48:38):
Oh yeah, okay, oh yeah, I mean not as so.
You know I was doing keynotepresentations for the American
College of Lifestyle Medicine,which of course I'm speaking to
the choir there, OK, but eventhey're going like, really you
know where's the evidence?
You know I'm going like I'mshowing to the evidence and then
also you, know and I've alwaysbeen an advocate of this.

(48:59):
you know.
Stop saying you don't haveenough evidence and do what you
clearly know is most effectiveand show what happens in your
client and patient population.

(49:19):
Okay, so the majority ofpositive impact we get with
patients is by just using ourhead and making clinical
decisions based on what we knowworks.
And when we're dealing withlifestyle medicine, I mean it's
not like we're giving a medicinethat is likely to cause cancer
later on.

(49:39):
You know, we're not givingchemotherapy here.
We're talking about eatinghealthfully, we're talking about
exercising, we're talking aboutpaying attention to your stress
levels, paying attention toyour sleep habits and lifestyle
in general things that are wellunderstood intuitively, and

(50:01):
there's a lot of scientific andbasic science research on, and
we're just putting it alltogether and so and there are
actually a lot of randomlycontrolled trials now.
But to actually wait until youhave more's so powerful, right?
So I mean I'm all for thosetrials, okay, but we need to

(50:32):
follow our own observations andtake advantage of that now.

Tom Butler (50:37):
I think it's such a huge thing because you're
talking about do something thatis only going to be healthy, and
you could say, like, just do itfor six months and see what it
looks like.
We're not talking about.
You know, like you said, we'renot talking about chemotherapy,
but some cases I think peopleare more accepting of if you say

(50:59):
, okay, you're going to have todo some chemotherapy with this.

Wes Youngberg (51:01):
If we tell them hey, you're going to take this,
this should help you.
I think it's going to help you.
You're going to lose all yourhair and you're going to feel
horrible for six months Like, oh, whatever you say, doc, you
know.
But we start talking aboutchanging the diet.

Tom Butler (51:14):
Like oh no, no, I don't want to change my diet.

Wes Youngberg (51:16):
You know, don't do that to me, doc.
Just give me a medication whereI don't want to eat again.

Tom Butler (51:24):
Yeah, that's right.

Wes Youngberg (51:25):
That's right.

Tom Butler (51:26):
Well, we could get really sidetracked in that
conversation, but now I'm notparticularly fond of the label
type 2 diabetes.

Wes Youngberg (51:34):
Sure.

Tom Butler (51:35):
And it seems like an old term that needs to be
abandoned.
And if we were going to abandonthe term type 2 diabetes, what,
in your practice, do youreplace that with?

Wes Youngberg (51:50):
I like what you're saying, tom, because I'm
not a fan of labels either.
In fact, I tell people, youknow, relative to everybody has
a certain blood sugar level.
I'm showing you like you're wayover here.

(52:11):
You know, like prior to 1997,tom, if your blood sugar fasting
blood sugar was 135, you didn'thave diabetes.
You know now, if your bloodsugar is 127, you have
full-blown diabetes.
Okay, so they changed thecriteria.
Now, the rationale for that wasactually a good rationale,

(52:32):
because, in other words, riskfactors should be tied to
concerns or consequences.
So they're saying well, youdon't really have diabetes until
your fasting blood sugar goesabove 140.
That used to be the criteria.
The problem with that, tom, wasthat even before people came
close to meeting the criteria,they already had the

(52:56):
complications of the disease.
They already were gettingneuropathy that led to lack of
sensation in the feet, and thenthey would hurt themselves
without realizing it.
They would become ulcerated andgangrenous.
And boom, now you got to havean amputation or else you risk

(53:16):
death.
Same thing with nephropathy orkidney damage.
Basically eye, basically eyedamage.
You know heart attacks, strokes, etc.
All these things were occurringeven before the definitive
diagnosis of diabetes could bemet, and so that's why the

(53:37):
research just says we got tochange the criteria so that at
the upswing of pathology youknow of diagnosed pathology,
where that upswing occurs withblood sugars, correspond to
pathology.
That's where the diagnosisbegins.
And then they also came up witha criteria for pre-diabetes

(54:01):
which was basically establishingthat there's an early pathology
here, still a pathology.
It's still doubling your riskfor a heart attack or stroke.
Okay, but prior to 1997, therewas no definition of
pre-diabetes and so you knowthere was no concern if your
fasting blood sugar was 100 or110 or 115, because you were way

(54:24):
under the criteria for diabetes.
So that's where I came up withthe five stages of high blood
sugar, along with Dr Brennergerfrom Loma Linda, and we
published that with this fivestages to a conference in 1997.
It was a conference on dealingwith diabetes throughout the

(54:53):
life cycle.
And another speaker at theconference, loma Linda, was the
chief endocrinologist at Kaiser.
He was in charge of thediabetes programs for all of
Kaiser throughout SouthernCalifornia and so he saw that
five-stage program.
He goes like, hey, wes, could Iuse this in Kaiser?

(55:14):
I go like, yeah, you know, cdcgrant funded man, go for it.
And so he said thanks.
And so a year later we'respeaking at another conference
and he comes up to me, says Wes,I got to tell you, man, I
presented this to all myendocrinologists.
They love it.
We're using it as a clinicaltool to show patients where
they're at, but we're also usingit as a early diagnostic

(55:37):
measure.
You know, because it was fivestages rather than one stage,
right, so I lost track of him.
He's probably retired long agonow, but it was neat to see that
that was making an impact inother areas as well.
And then since that time, weexpanded it to 10 stages that
include five stages of diabetes,all the way up to critical

(55:59):
diabetes, looking at the A1C,the one-hour and the two-hour
post-prandial or after-mealblood sugar levels.
So people that use a continuousglucose monitor are willing to
check themselves more often, canactually see what works and
what doesn't.

Tom Butler (56:15):
Well, it's interesting, you know, my career
kind of took me away fromhealth promotion and education
and my wife has been moreconnected to health information
than I have been for most of ourmarriage.
But I sure wish that my doctorshad had a different

(56:36):
understanding, because I startedshowing evidence of prediabetes
years ago, started showingevidence of pre-diabetes years
ago, you know, and what I wouldcall metabolic dysfunction years
ago.
And they were waiting, you know, they were waiting for it to
become an issue.
I would have really appreciatedfor them to say this is an

(57:01):
issue now, not, you know, oncewe see a you know seven A1C or
something.

Wes Youngberg (57:08):
Yeah, very true, tom.
In fact, as we discussedpreviously, what really impacted
me is even all the way back in1997, when the criteria changed,
there was already evidence.
This is almost 30 years ago.
Well, no, yeah, yeah, almost 30years ago.
It was already evidence.
This is almost 30 years ago.
Well, no, yeah, yeah, almost 30years ago.
It was already evidence thenthat before somebody actually

(57:30):
meets the full criteria forpre-diabetes which is stage
three on my scale of 10 stagesof high blood sugars they
already have lost over half theability to produce insulin.
That's not lost forevernecessarily.
We now know studies have shownthat that can be regained if we

(57:51):
address the underlying cause ofthe problem.
You know, to actually recognizethat while you're still at
stage two high blood sugar,which is even before you're
diagnosed with prediabetesYou've already created a
dysfunction of 50% in your betacell production of insulin.

(58:11):
That's huge right, especiallysince it's so closely related to
the same thing happening inyour brain, where you're
literally, in this case, losingmemory cells at the tune of a
thousand memory cells a daybecause of the same metabolic
phenomenon, Because insulinresistance is the main driver,

(58:37):
or the most common driver, ofdementia, especially Alzheimer's
type dementia.
The beauty of this is to fixone thing.
We're actually fixing manythings.
We're dramatically lesseningwhatever risk you and I have of
developing dementia later on inlife is dramatically impacted by

(58:59):
optimizing insulin productionin the pancreas and minimizing
damage to those cells andoptimizing the body's
utilization of insulin properly.

Tom Butler (59:11):
One of the things that you and I have talked about
and not that this is aconsultation for me right now,
but I don't think I'm unique inthis is the role of
environmental toxicity.
Yeah, so I'm wondering if youcould talk about is that a big
factor?
Is that a rare factor?

(59:33):
What are you seeing?

Wes Youngberg (59:35):
I really do think it's a big factor.
It's one of those, you know,unsung factors that can lead to
a problem.
It's just not, you know, know,we have almost blinders on.
It.
Took so long for the medicalcommunity to acknowledge that
fundamental lifestyle factorslike exercise, diet, sleep,

(59:56):
stress management had a role inthis.
Right, rather than just lookingfor the magic bullet, you know,
just take metformin or justtake, you know, glipizide, or
just take some insulin, fix yourproblem.
You know why change yourlifestyle when you can just take
some medicine to correct yourblood sugar?
You know, I mean, I've had manypatients not that were coming

(01:00:18):
to me.
You know, because patients, bythe time they come to me,
they're, you know, they'realready converted before.
You know, I'm not the one thatconverts them per se.
They're seeking me out becausethey understand what I can
possibly help them with.
Okay, but there's this viewthat it took so long for the
medical community to evenacknowledge that you could

(01:00:38):
reverse diabetes through thesefundamental strategies that it's
going to even take that muchmore time for the typical
clinical clinician to becomeaware.
Number one, and thenacknowledge the benefit of
addressing environmental toxinsand how that relates to the two

(01:01:01):
main problems with high bloodsugar relates to the two main
problems with high blood sugar.
In other words, a body workingproperly should never have a
high blood sugar, no matter whatyou do.
Okay, so, in other words,something is pathologically
wrong when the blood sugars goup.
So Dr Charles Brinegar, thediabetologist that worked with

(01:01:21):
me for years and I worked withhim, he would say, wes, you
could drink a whole two litersof Pepsi and eat a gallon of ice
cream, and your blood sugarshould never go up above 120.
Now I don't recommend that,right, because I think most of
us would fail that test.

(01:01:41):
But his point was is that ifyou need more insulin, you just
give more insulin?
That was kind of the mentalityon how he was trained back in
the 70s.
You know, you just give moreinsulin.
You know, if you got to give athousand units of insulin, give
a thousand units.
You know, do whatever it takesto control the blood sugars.

(01:02:02):
Well, that is not acknowledgingthe cause of the problem, right?
And so what first turned meinto the impact of environmental
toxins on things like diabetes,for instance, is an NHANES
study, which was the NationalHealth and Nutrition Examination

(01:02:24):
Survey that is done every 10years along with the US Census
and so during that censusevaluation they would take
individuals with diabetes largecohorts of people with diabetes
throughout the United States,and do different tests on them,
including, in this case,measuring the level of

(01:02:44):
environmental toxins in theirblood and correlating that with
metabolic dysfunction likediabetes or prediabetes, etc.
And what they discovered inthose studies is that the level
of toxins these are likeenvironmental toxins in their
blood of diabetics was way morestrongly associated with level

(01:03:08):
of metabolic dysfunction thanany level of obesity or
sedentary lifestyle, etc.

Tom Butler (01:03:15):
Wow.

Wes Youngberg (01:03:16):
So I remember when I first read that I go like
, well, that doesn't make anysense.
You know how can a toxin dothat?
You know I can visualize.
If you eat too much food it'sgoing to mess up the metabolism.
If you don't get exerciseenough, the cells are going to
get fat and sassy and they don'twant any more sugar.
So they shut down.
They become resistant toinsulin.

(01:03:37):
Now the pancreas has to makemore and more insulin to try to
bring down the blood sugar andthat's a never ending battle
that just messes people up.
So at first it didn't make senseto me, but then I started
understanding that, the more Istudied it, that toxins create
free radical damage.
Toxins destroy beta cells inthe pancreas.

(01:03:58):
Toxins along with low gradeinfections both of those cause
autoimmune changes to occurwhich further damage the target
cells involved I started piecingtogether an understanding that
even low-grade toxins that areexposed to over time, long term,

(01:04:21):
have a powerful influence ondamaging the pancreas and on
damaging the brain.
So again to tie in withAlzheimer's, which I oftentimes
refer to as diabetes of thebrain, or diabetes, which I
refer to as Alzheimer's or thepancreas, because it's a similar

(01:04:43):
pathology.
So that's when I, you know, atfirst I didn't want to deal with
toxicity issues.
I didn't want to.
You know, I didn't want to getinto all that because that it
just seemed it was outside ofthis my expertise and the scope
of what I did.
And I finally I finallyrealized, unless I actually
become an expert in this, I'mnot going to be successful with

(01:05:05):
a large percentage of mypatients, because that's always
part of the problem.
It's not necessarily thebiggest part of the problem, but
in some people it is.
In some people it is a majordriver of both dementia and
heart disease and diabetes.

Tom Butler (01:05:24):
You've brought up a couple things here.
One is diabetes, and the bookGoodbye Diabetes was really
released out there to bring yourexperience.
And now you're talking aboutthe issue of memory, and I think
you have a book out thereMemory Makeover.
That's right.

Wes Youngberg (01:05:45):
Can you talk about it?
Prevent Alzheimer's and ReverseCognitive Decline.

Tom Butler (01:05:48):
Okay, and then you have another book called Hello
Healthy.

Wes Youngberg (01:05:52):
Yeah, you know I struggled on how to name that
book or put a title on that book.
This is a book for 20-plusyears I did a 12-week series of
seminars for new patients.
Okay, when I was working in themedical group construct which
was most of my life except forthe last 15 years where I've

(01:06:14):
been private practice I'd havelots of doctors that were within
the group referring people fordiabetes or for stress
management or depression anxiety.
So I literally had fourdifferent 90-minute seminars
going on every week.
You know, one every day I woulddo and so we'd have like 20, 25

(01:06:37):
patients come in for a90-minute group consult and they
would come 12 weeks straightand I would have 12 different
presentations that I would givethat are clinically oriented
towards what do you need to knowto be successful in reversing
your condition?
Stuff that we don't have timeto go over in every visit, right

(01:06:59):
In every individual visit.
So it's a way to accomplish alot more than we could by just
seeing patients one-on-one, andso I did that for like 20 years
so maybe 30 years in my practiceof Guam and with the Rancho
Family Medical Group here inTemecula, and so I had a lot of
data from those 12 presentations.

(01:07:21):
And so, after we publishedGoodbye Diabetes, my publishers,
hey, we got to come up with anew book and I said, well, you
know, let's go ahead and takethese 12 lectures, 12 topics
that everybody needs to knowabout, and put them into 12
separate chapters.
And so we literally hadeverything that were in those

(01:07:42):
lectures that we videotaped putinto 12 chapters.
And then I spent 500 hours,literally.
I kept track.
I spent 500 more hours addingthe latest documentation to each
of those categories that cameup with.
You know, it's like a 250 pagebook called Hello Healthy.
In other words, six months fromnow, if you run into a friend

(01:08:07):
you haven't seen for a while,they go like whoa, hello healthy
, like what happened to you Lasttime I saw you, you didn't look
this healthy.
That was the mindset of callingit Hello Healthy, and there
could have been a better title.
I still don't know what thatwould have been, but it's
basically all the 12 things youwant to know to be able to
optimize your health.

Tom Butler (01:08:28):
Well, I like the title because I think there's
this element of goodbye diabetes, goodbye, you know, memory
problems or whatever, but youstill want to say hello, yeah,
yeah, yeah.
So let me ask you this, and thisis, you know, a bit of
imagining things.

(01:08:49):
But if someone were to embrace,hello, healthy, and employ
those things, let's say that allof a sudden everybody became
serious about those things andpursuing a healthy lifestyle.
About those things and pursuinga healthy lifestyle, how would
you describe what could happenindividually and as a society if

(01:09:10):
that happened all of a sudden?

Wes Youngberg (01:09:12):
Well, I know a lot of people would be very,
very upset and I say that injest, but it's unfortunately
true.
You know, the big pharma wouldnot be very happy at all To be
serious here for a minute.
This is one of the challengesthat when you're dealing with
the business mindset withinmedicine, which is very strong,

(01:09:35):
there's a huge push to makemedicine financially lucrative.
If everybody started livingreally healthfully I mean, just
think about all the specialtiesthat deal with complications of
disease, which is most medicalspecialties they would like be,
you know, standing in line atthe food line, right.

(01:09:58):
And so now, I don't expect thatever to happen because, as a
theoretical construct, there'salways going to be people that
need help.
There's always going to bepeople that need help.
There's always going to bepeople that are making bad
decisions.
You know, because we are humanFor a lot of reasons, we were
either not paying attention orwe are.
We are willfully avoidinglearning what we need to do and

(01:10:19):
even when we know what to do,oftentimes it's difficult
because there's temptationseverywhere.
But specifically to answer yourquestion, tom, it would just
dramatically revolutionize thehealth and longevity and the
happiness, the peacefulness ofour society.
It would be amazing what wouldhappen.

(01:10:41):
You know, depression andanxiety would dramatically
lessen.
Violence would dramaticallylessen.
There's actually studies thathave been published.
When you change the diet inprisons to a healthy,
plant-based diet, or you justoffer that as an option, it
revolutionizes the mentalthinking of the criminals.

(01:11:04):
There's all kinds of studiesthat point this out that a lot
of criminal behavior has to dowith nutritional deficiency.
That is more manifest.
In other words, they're atgreater risk for nutritional
deficiency because of geneticmutations and other factors than
the average person.

(01:11:24):
So if they just simply couldhave their nutrition optimized,
that they would potentially atsome point get to that tipping
point where they're no longerthinking pathologically and I
mean it's literally a revolutionin thought and action and
behavior.
So that's just you know.
I haven't even thought aboutthat for a while, but there's

(01:11:46):
good evidence of that.
If we really take advantage ofthese fundamental principles and
stop making decisions incorporate medicine that just you
know are beneficial to thebottom line, right to the
finances, and start just makingdecisions that might decrease

(01:12:08):
money coming into us, but itwould dramatically improve the
prosperity of the population, ofthe common person.
I could only imagine what wouldhappen, but it would be amazing
.

Tom Butler (01:12:22):
And I hope that we can march closer to that.
I hope things happen with thatand I just want to point out
again, you know, thanks for thework that you've done, because I
think that you have made adifference with providers and
got providers thinkingdifferently, got primary care

(01:12:44):
providers thinking differently.
You know that's part of whatneeds to happen to move forward.

Wes Youngberg (01:12:50):
So you know what we say, tom, you know.
Standing on the shoulders ofgiants.
You know, for me, my backgroundin gymnastics is doing a
handstand on the shoulders ofgiants.
But everybody has a role here.
You know, the more people thatcan participate in what I
consider to be an excitingopportunity to dramatically

(01:13:13):
impact people's health, thebetter.

Tom Butler (01:13:16):
Yeah, awesome.

Wes Youngberg (01:13:18):
I appreciate what you're doing with this podcast
because hopefully that'llresonate with many people
listening.

Tom Butler (01:13:25):
You know, for me I'm in this period of after 60, I'm
really interested in thisperiod between 55 and 80, maybe,
where people are starting torealize there's something to do,
starting to have thatmotivation.
I'd be wonderful to get some ofthese things going, you know,
when you're 25 or 20 or whatever.

(01:13:45):
But I think, you know, 55 ismaybe an interesting time when
people start seeing things andit's like that 25 year period
between 55 and 80, you know, ifyou make the changes, then it's
going to make a huge difference.
So I'm really passionate aboutthat now.

Wes Youngberg (01:14:01):
You know, you just reminded me of something,
tom.
This happened like 25 years ago.
So I'm really passionate aboutthat now.
You know, you just reminded meof something, tom.
This happened like 25 years ago.
So I'm seeing a patient who hadbeen referred to me and she was
.
I remember she was like 62years old, younger than I am
right now.
I'm going on 65 this year.
You know, I was asking her whatare your goals, what are your

(01:14:21):
motivations?
What are you here for?
You know giving was asking herwhat are your goals, what are
your motivations?
What are you here for?
You know, giving her a chanceto express herself.
And she says I don't know, youknow.
And I said well, you know,there's a lot of things we can
do that dramatically improveyour health and your longevity.
And she says oh, I don't wantto live a year past six.

(01:14:41):
She said, like 64.
You pick 64 for some reason.
And I looked at the chart.
I go like that's only two yearsaway, mary.
And she says I know.
So I said why do you say that?
She says because I look at myrelatives and my family.
She says about the time theyturn 63, 64, they just become a

(01:15:04):
huge burden on the entire family.
Okay, and you know I don't wantto be a burden on my family.
I don't want to basically godownhill and just feel bad and
be trouble for the rest of myfamily.
You know, it kind of shocked meat the time and then I said well
, mary, what would you think ifI can show you things that you

(01:15:29):
can do so that when you're 64,you actually are healthier than
you were 15 years ago?
Would you still want to diethen?
And she looked at me like she'dnever actually thought of that
possibility and she goes likewell, not in that case.
I go like well, that's whatwe're going to do, mary, I

(01:15:49):
really believe that you can dothis.
That's what I do.
I help people accomplish thatand ultimately you will do it,
but I'll guide that process.
You know, I basically startedshowing her that you can
dramatically reverse theseconditions so that even when
you're 75, 80, 85, you'reactually doing better than when

(01:16:12):
you were 55.
That's really true.
We've always said 60 is the new40, or whatever you want to call
it, and of course that's.
You know, my goal is that 65 isto do, you know, 45.
That's what I want.
You know, that's where I'mheaded this year, and so you
know and I got to be on pointtoo, because if I don't pay

(01:16:35):
attention to what I'm preaching,then I'm falling back you know,
I'm getting closer to mybiologic age, rather than I mean
my chronological age versus abiologic age that's based on the
choices that I make.
So we have an opportunity todramatically alter the aging
process the way we normallythink about it.
We're on that journey together,tom.

Tom Butler (01:16:57):
Yeah Well, I think that's a perfect way to wrap
this up.
And, Dr Youngberg, I want tosay thank you so much for for
coming on the podcast.
I knew this was going to be agreat conversation.
I've been looking forward to itfor for quite a while, so
thanks so much for joining me.

Wes Youngberg (01:17:13):
Hey, tom, it's always fun talking to you.

Tom Butler (01:17:15):
Well, maybe we can do it again sometime.

Wes Youngberg (01:17:17):
Yeah, absolutely.

Tom Butler (01:17:19):
All right, take care now.

Wes Youngberg (01:17:20):
All right.

Tom Butler (01:17:29):
Bye, all right, take care now.
All right, bye-bye.
There isn't much to add to thatdiscussion.
Hopefully you got the feel forWes's deep knowledge of the
impact of positive healthchoices.
It has been said by numerousguests on the podcast that it is
never too late to implementpositive health habits.
I hope all of you are seeingthe results of the choices.
That is never too late toimplement positive health habits
.
I hope all of you are seeingthe results of the choices that
you are making and continue tolearn new ways of building up

(01:17:49):
your health.
And remember age is just a gearchange.