October 28, 2025 • 52 mins
In this special episode of Cycling Over Sixty, the tables are turned as a guest host puts Tom Butler on the hot seat for an honest and revealing season retrospective. Tom opens up about the highs and lows of Season 3, sharing insights about what worked and what fell short of expectations.
Join us for an intimate conversation where Tom reflects on his favorite moments from the past season. He doesn't shy away from discussing the challenges either, addressing areas where Cycling Over Sixty can improve and grow.
Looking ahead to Season 4, Tom shares his vision for the podcast's evolution and the new directions he's excited to explore. Whether it's discovering new adventures, exploring new cycling topics, or expanding the conversation around fitness after sixty, you'll get a preview of what's coming next.
This episode offers a perspective from an average cyclist who's committed to documenting his journey while helping others discover the transformative power of cycling later in life. Tom's authentic approach and dedication to continuous improvement make this a must-listen for anyone who's been following along or is curious about starting their own cycling journey after sixty.
Perfect for long-time listeners wanting behind-the-scenes insights and newcomers looking to understand what Cycling Over Sixty is all about.
LINK
Cycling Over Sixty Tour de Cure Team: tour.diabetes.org/teams/CO60
Here is your invitation to join a great launch party for the summer cycling season. Join the Cycling Over Sixty Tour de Cure PNW team. Whether you are local or come out to experience cycling in the great Northwest, I would love to have you help make this a ride with a purpose. And to send a message that the joy of cycling is here for everyone, regardless of age. Go to tour.diabetes.org/teams/CO60
I know it is early but we are looking to get the Cycling Over Sixty Tour de Cure team together as soon as possible. You can find all the info at tour.diabetes.org/teams/CO60
Thank you Konvergent Wealth for sponsoring CO60 Jerseys for the Tour de Cure!
Become a member of the Cycling Over Sixty Strava Club! www.strava.com/clubs/CyclingOverSixty
Cycling Over Sixty is also on Zwift. Look for our Zwift club!
Please send comments, questions and especially content suggestions to me at info@cyclingoversixty.com
Follow and comment on Cycling Over Sixty on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cyclingoversixty/
Show music is "Come On Out" by Dan Lebowitz. Find him here : lebomusic.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
McKenna Miler (00:04):
This is the Cycling Over 60 Podcast, season
four episode one, launchingseason four, and this is your
host, McKenna Myler.
It's time to look back atseason three and look forward
(00:26):
into season four, so we get toput Tom Butler on the hot seat
as a guest.
So, Tom, you've done thisbefore, but what is it like for
you to be a guest on yourpodcast?
Tom Butler (00:36):
Yeah, it's never that comfortable for me.
You know, there's like anatural flow for me.
I'm naturally curious.
And so, like asking questionsand engaging with people that
way, I'm I'm comfortable withthat, but trying to answer
questions and get stuff out ofmy brain, that's a different
thing.
And I'm not very comfortable inthis place.
(00:58):
At the same time, I do thinkit's a good way to think about
things that I might not thinkabout otherwise.
McKenna Miler (01:05):
So you've just finished up season three, and
now you're going into seasonfour.
And so it's been three seasonsnow.
And as your daughter, I lookback to when you first started
this podcast, and it was reallyexciting for me.
I've kind of heard my wholelife, and and I feel this way
too, about how you have such agreat voice.
People always say, like, man,you have such a good speaking
(01:26):
voice.
And that's that's kind of funnyto say, like, you know, your
dad's voice is kind of soothingfor you to think when you're
growing up.
And it's been really fun justto see, like you said, that
natural curiosity side of you tobe able to interact with these
people to kind of have an excuseto talk to these people that
you think are super cool, butbut bring this information to
people that you love and thatthat interests you.
(01:46):
It's been really fun to see.
Tom Butler (01:48):
You know, it's interesting that you say that.
I several people have told methat I've got a good voice for
the podcast.
And I think this is like witheverybody, you know, but I hear
my voice and it sounds sodifferent to me, you know, and I
feel like I sound kind of slow,kind of like I don't know what
the word for everybody kind ofjust uh dopey.
(02:12):
I don't know what the rightword is, but so but it is
interesting, and I'm glad thatit works out that I found
something that can utilize thatside of me, I guess, is the
right way to look at it.
McKenna Miler (02:24):
Yeah, it's really cool to see.
Tom Butler (02:26):
Nice.
McKenna Miler (02:27):
All right.
Well, let's get into somequestions.
Tom Butler (02:29):
Okay.
McKenna Miler (02:30):
Are you getting tired of doing the podcast?
Tom Butler (02:33):
When I launched the podcast, I uh only thought it
was gonna be like a few monthsthat was you know just about
reporting on this journey oftrying to get to do the STP.
I was just trying to see howfar I could go.
So after that was done, justnever felt like work or
(02:57):
anything.
It always felt like fun, andthere was always more experts
that I wanted their opinion,always more people that I was
interested in talking to.
People started reaching out andgiving their story, or they'd
tell something about somebodythat they knew.
And it's just alwaysinteresting to me.
(03:18):
And so it's never gotten old.
And in fact, this summer Ididn't do that many podcasts.
It was a really crazy summer,and I missed it and I missed the
conversations.
I'm not tired of it, and itdoesn't feel like I will be
because if I would run out ofinteresting things, maybe, but I
(03:39):
just don't see that happening.
McKenna Miler (03:41):
Yeah, definitely there's not gonna be an end to
your curiosity.
Tom Butler (03:45):
Yes, I think that's true, and I'm glad.
McKenna Miler (03:49):
You kicked off season three with goals across
three areas writing goals,health goals, and community
goals.
As you look back now at 116episodes total, which of those
three goals surprised you mostin terms of how it actually
unfolded?
Tom Butler (04:08):
Uh, yeah, that's an interesting question.
I guess I'd have to say thecommunity piece.
Specifically, how my role withTacoma Washington Bicycle Club
emerged.
I see the bicycle club as animportant component of a cycling
over 60 community.
And so as we're building thisfirst community in Tacoma, which
(04:31):
is taking longer than I than Ihad hoped.
But as I'm building it, I I didtake on this role of community
and government relationsdirector at Tacoma Washington
Bicycle Club.
And that has been such amassive education for me as far
as advocacy is currentlyconcerned, as far as what
(04:53):
happens to make bikeinfrastructure move forward.
The president of the club, BobMeirich, is such a you know, 40
years of bike advocacy.
And it's just been awesomebeing able to hear from him
about how things happen.
That's been a really differentkind of role that I that I'm
(05:19):
truly enjoying.
Yeah, and actually gettingrevved up about.
I can get revved up aboutstuff, you know, like social
justice stuff and all kinds ofstuff, I can get revved up
about.
So bike infrastructure issomething that I can get really
passionate about.
So it's it's been surprisinghow that has unfolded.
McKenna Miler (05:38):
In seeing how these goals have unfurled, you
set a goal to do seven organizedrides with at least three
outside of Washington State.
How did that pan out?
And what was your favoriteexperience?
Tom Butler (05:51):
It ended up being a lot harder to do seven rides
than I thought.
And hoping that that's justthis summer.
We did have a really crazysummer.
And I'm hoping that I'll beable to do more in the future.
So I did six.
I only did one ride that wastechnically outside of
Washington, but it wasinteresting because I took my
(06:14):
bike along on some trips that wedid as a family.
I rode with the Eugene BicycleClub gears down in Oregon.
And also on July 4th, I rode inIdaho.
I also rode in Lebanon, Oregon,which was really cool because I
got to experience some backroads, and it was a like a
(06:35):
different environment that I wasused to.
So even though I didn't do alot of organized rides out of
Washington, I did experience alot of really cool environments
because I took my bike along.
McKenna Miler (06:52):
So would you say that was your your favorite ride
experience was experiencingthose back roads?
Tom Butler (06:57):
No, that's a really good experience.
But definitely, I would have tosay, doing the tour to
Victoria.
That was something that I didwith Kelly with your mom.
And it was just a really funtrip.
And just the way that theyorganized that ride, even though
(07:18):
we got soaked in the first halfof the ride, the weather
cleared up and it was just afantastic ride.
And I really look forward todoing it again.
There are two different thingsgoing on.
One, like being out on theseback roads that I hadn't
experienced ever before.
And the the ride that I did inOregon, uh, that we went to the
(07:39):
wedding.
Where did we enterprise?
You stayed in Enterprise,right?
McKenna Miler (07:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tom Butler (07:43):
What's that little town on the way to the
mountains?
Joseph.
McKenna Miler (07:46):
Where I got engaged.
Continue.
That little town in themountains where I got engaged.
Minor detail about yourdaughter.
Tom Butler (07:55):
Yeah.
So that very significant townin Oregon.
You know, riding around outthere, that was pretty magical.
I talked about that in anotherpodcast.
So if you can find it, but soyou might want to go back and
listen to that.
That was really cool, but therewas something really just
(08:16):
special about riding that Tourde Victoria with Kelly and just
how well of a job they did withit.
And of course, it was a weekendtrip and we had a lot of fun.
Well, yeah, that had to be thehighlight of season three.
McKenna Miler (09:40):
Yeah, Garen and I missed out on that bike ride.
And after seeing those picturesand videos that you guys had,
man, that was one to miss.
I wish we could have been therefor that.
Tom Butler (09:49):
You guys need to do that.
And you didn't miss the halfday of rain of getting soaked.
So if you do it in the future,you got a chance of weather
being better, and that wouldeven make it more awesome.
But yeah, you guys, you guyshave to do that.
McKenna Miler (10:03):
I mean, we bike all year round.
We're in Seattle.
We know, we know how to dothat.
Tom Butler (10:08):
And that was the thing obvious about that ride is
that you're with a bunch ofpeople from the Pacific
Northwest.
Yeah, we're getting a littlebit of cat chatter, but that's
okay.
You're with people used toriding the Pacific Northwest.
So the rain didn't shut thingsdown.
And then again, it cleared upand it was really pretty.
McKenna Miler (10:27):
I know that ride was something that you really
were looking forward to.
Another thing that you werealso looking forward to was
joining the Cascade Bicycle ClubPetal Relief Project.
And you wanted to do that togive back to the community by
delivering food by bike.
Did you make that happen?
Tom Butler (10:45):
I did not make that happen.
That is still one of thosethings that I want to do, that I
really want to experience.
The thing that we did, and andwe did that together was
Cranksgiving.
That's going to be coming upagain.
I really want to do that again.
McKenna Miler (11:00):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (11:00):
That was a lot of fun.
So there was that element oflike a pedal relief kind of
activity.
And I love that.
I still want to do pedalrelief, but I know for sure that
I want to keep doingCranksgiving.
McKenna Miler (11:15):
Awesome.
I think that's just such agreat way to give back to the
community and get involved.
Bikepacking was another majorarea that you wanted to explore
in season three.
How did your first bikepackingexperiences go?
And how did they compare toyour expectations?
Tom Butler (11:30):
Unfortunately, there wasn't bikepacking experiences.
There was a bikepackingexperience.
I definitely wanted to do more.
The experience that we had wasgreat as far as like first trip
to do.
Ended up changing a bit.
And take we took a ferry over,and then the ferry coming back,
(11:56):
just the trying to make theferries work interrupted it a
bit, but it was just a reallygood taste of what bikepacking
was, and then without a lot ofrisk.
So you had driven the car over,and we did have the car there,
and that changed it a bit, butstill the bike and the you know,
(12:20):
the gear and everything got toexperience it enough to know
that I gotta do it more.
I'm still looking for a time togo out, even though it's gonna
start getting cold.
I I want to go out again beforethe weather gets really bad
here.
But uh I think there's an issuewith my bike.
(12:41):
So we might talk about thatmore.
I'm not sure that I have theperfect bike for bike camping.
I I know that I don't have theperfect bike for bike camping,
so we'll just have to see howthat, what happens with that.
McKenna Miler (12:57):
That would be really funny to see another bike
come through this podcast.
Tom Butler (13:02):
Yeah.
So Judson, you know, he's helaughs at the fact that I've
been milking the podcast forbikes.
Like he uses it uh almost as aweapon against his wife.
I think Judson, I know you'llhear this.
You know, it's like, look howmany bikes Kelly's letting Tom
get.
I I don't know.
(13:23):
I can't, I can't justify it,really.
It's like, yeah.
So there's uh because thepodcast, I'm getting more bikes,
but there's an element of it,like it almost has to happen.
It just has to happen.
I can't control it.
McKenna Miler (13:40):
Can't do anything about it.
Maybe you need to start uhpetitioning for for new bikes,
making sure you're gettingsignatures from the appropriate
people before you're have thebike purchase council.
unknown (13:52):
Yeah, okay.
Tom Butler (13:52):
You'll have to get it.
It's like a research committee.
You have to run by your planfor a new bike with the bike
purchase committee to getapproved.
I might need something likethat.
McKenna Miler (14:04):
Another application that you might need
a different bike for is gravelriding, which was also something
that you wanted to pursue,partly to ride more with my mom,
Kelly.
How has your gravel journeyprogressed?
And how has it impacted yourrelationship and cycling with my
mom?
Tom Butler (14:21):
It really has turned out not to be what we had hoped
it would be.
It's kind of a disappointingthing because Kelly doesn't like
being on the road.
And so being on gravel reallysounded like a winning idea.
At this point, with the bikeshe has, it's just not a
comfortable thing.
(14:42):
So we have not gone for agravel ride this whole season.
There's still a possibilitythat we could find something
that would work for her to dothat, and there's still, I
think, logic that gravel ridingcould be really good for us.
But it definitely did not panout to what we had hoped because
it's just gravel roads are kindof bumpy, and we haven't found
(15:04):
smooth enough gravel trails tomake it great.
In addition to that, though,we're pretty comfortable on
trails.
So we did a 60-mile ride on atrail, and that was great.
You know, we're not going to gofarther than 50 miles, and
there's a lot of good trails todo that.
So I think trail riding rightnow is more interesting than
(15:27):
gravel riding.
However, going back to bikecamping, I think that we would
be more likely to do bikecamping together on a gravel
road than on a trail.
But that might just be findingthe right trails that have
campsites, like the OlympicDiscovery Trail.
So we'll see.
But it definitely did not panout to be what we had hoped it
(15:51):
to be so far.
McKenna Miler (15:52):
Yeah, I feel like we have growth as a family.
We really want cycling to bethis thing that we can do all
together.
And it seems like we haven'tquite found that piece that we
can all do together.
And True to Victoria may havebeen that, but it'd be really
cool to find whether it'sbikepacking or gravel riding or
whatever it is that that reallybrings us together on weekends.
(16:12):
And I mean, Garen and I havestabilized and in our location a
bit more recently.
So I'm really looking forwardto kind of this next season and
how we can really come togetheras a family.
Tom Butler (16:24):
We jumped on this idea of being a cycling family
at one point.
And I feel like that was alittle bit premature.
I mean, you and Garen, you'rein a new place now.
You're gonna be starting a newjob pretty soon.
And I think you're stillfiguring out what's your rec
recreation gonna look like.
(16:45):
I want to reserve at least acouple trips, you know.
Let's put that on there.
And I think we had a great tripwhen we went to the Olympic
Discovery Trail and we spent thenight together at a really
funky little campground place,and that was super fun.
So I do want to reserve acouple things.
Maybe next year we can look atTour de Victoria together.
But yeah, I I still want thatto be one of those things that
(17:10):
we do as a family.
McKenna Miler (17:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
On August 2nd, 2024, youinterviewed Dr.
Jeffrey Gladden.
He mentioned needing anexponential strategy for the
exponential problem of aging.
In season three, you wanted topursue that idea more.
Did that happen?
Tom Butler (17:28):
I didn't do as much of that as I wanted to.
I really want to get intoindividualized medicine more and
looking at longevity andlongevity science and really dig
in deep into that.
On September 22nd, I did apodcast episode with the
(17:50):
excellent people at PhysicianCoach.
And I see Physician Coach andthe people that they have there
as really a perfect resource fordigging into this deeper.
And I'm going to be doing thatwith them, kind of for me
personally.
And then also I think theconnections that they have are
(18:10):
going to be good for me to findpeople.
And then part of it was that Ididn't do as many episodes this
summer as I wanted.
And so I just missed theopportunity to do some of the
things I wanted to do, but itstill remains a huge focus for
me.
McKenna Miler (18:29):
Yeah, the longevity focus was central to
season three.
After all the conversationswith experts this season, how
has your understanding of whatit takes to have a long and
healthy life evolved?
Tom Butler (18:42):
I I have three things right now, and I feel
like I'm still really adding tomy knowledge about this, and I
really want to add to myknowledge about this.
But for me, consistency isnumber one.
And then unfortunately, weighttraining is number two.
(19:02):
I mean, the more I listen andread about rate training, it is
just essential.
And everybody who's listeningto this, if you're not doing
weight training, you need to godo weight training.
And I'm saying that as someonethat doesn't like it.
And especially because weighttraining, you need to lift
(19:23):
weights to the point where yourmuscles are stressed and it's
uncomfortable, at least for me.
Now, some people who I envy,they like that.
They like pushing hard andtheir muscles failing and
everything, and they're like,ah, that was awesome.
I don't like that.
Cycling is different for me.
If I'm climbing up a hill andeverything, I'm hurting.
(19:44):
I get to the top of the hill.
It's like, yay, but weighttraining, there's no yay to me
with rate training.
And every time I think aboutdoing it, I'm like, oh, this is
just uncomfortable.
I wish it wasn't this way, butmy upper body will atrophy if I
don't do weight training and I'mstill in that place.
(20:05):
And I proved that in seasonthree by doing 25 weeks in a row
of two days a week lifting,that I'm able to change my
muscle strength, my physique,everything by lifting.
And that's just a functionalthing to do.
(20:26):
There's a whole bunch of thingsthat I hope to have people
speak to more that happens evenfor brain health, how lifting is
attached to the brain health.
There's just a lot that makesweight training essential.
And the final thing is I'mstill learning how to eat.
I did an episode with RussYoungberg and talked about blood
(20:50):
glucose and managing bloodglucose and insulin resistance,
and all that stuff is at thecore of my personal journey for
longevity, is figuring that out.
What I eat, how to eat tomanage my blood glucose is
number one.
There's also this reallyinteresting thing, and hopefully
(21:11):
I'll be able to get into thisin an episode, but I need to do
some more investigation of it.
And this is one of those thingswhere I talk about don't do
what I do.
You know, I'm different thanyou, you know, don't do what I
do.
I am really curious about aconcept of eating differently in
the winter time than I do inthe summer, because for most of
(21:34):
our development as humans, weate differently in the
wintertime than we did in thesummer.
And so I'm thinking there mightbe something to do that.
But that's a really wild thingthat I'm gonna be looking at
trying out.
I mean, I'm still gonna do alot of experimentation on
myself.
And I should point out that Iexperimented with something
changing my diet, and it failedmiserably.
(21:55):
And that was, you know, reallylimiting the fat that I took in.
And I'll talk about that morein some episode here coming up.
Yeah, there's still a lot forme to learn about how I'm
fueling myself.
McKenna Miler (22:08):
You wanted to optimize the cycling over 60
Strava Club and explore liveevents.
What worked, what didn't, andhow has the community grown?
Tom Butler (22:18):
I like Strava and I like having the Strava Club.
I like posting to Strava.
It is a place that Icommunicate with anybody that's
part of the Strava Club.
I know that not everybody isgoing to be on Strava.
It's not the perfect way ofcommunicating.
And I'm super disappointedbecause I reached out to Strava.
(22:40):
One of the things that I wantedto do in season three was to
figure out a way to communicate,have some communication with
Strava.
I don't think that's possible.
I think Strava is just really,don't they communicate with you
unless you're like REI or somebig entity like that.
And I even reached out andasked for cycling over 60 to be
(23:01):
considered an official club orwhatever, but to get a check
mark by the club's name becausethat would give me more options
as far as posting is concerned.
And they're like, you need torequest it, and then you'll
never hear back from us.
You'll either see a check oryou won't.
And I didn't see a check.
So I'm pretty disappointed withStrava as a community building
(23:22):
tool, although I did use it alot to reach out to people to
let them know things going on.
I can reach out to differentclubs in the area and post on
their Strava clubs, and thatthat was helpful, but it's not
the perfect resource.
So I'm still looking forsomething that's a better
community organization tool thanthat.
(23:45):
Or maybe it's even figuring outhow to create a cycling number
60 app that would be helpful.
That would be a big project,but that would be kind of cool.
McKenna Miler (23:54):
I've been pretty surprised recently hearing about
people starting out in theirearly careers learning how to
make new apps and how there's alot of resources about how to
make an app that's it's not toodifficult to set up.
Tom Butler (24:06):
Yeah, I have used Claude to do some stuff, and I
think it's possible thatbuilding an app would be
something that Claude could behelpful with.
If I get some spare time, I'mgonna play around with that.
It'd be awesome to have morefeedback from people about what
they'd like to see in an app.
So reach out and let me know.
(24:27):
You can find my email in theshow notes.
But again, I'm still on thesearch for something to
communicate better as acommunity.
I do want to say a shout out toeverybody that posts their
pictures with their eyes becauseI love it.
I love seeing your pictures.
I said that before, but it'strue.
McKenna Miler (24:45):
Yeah, I don't I don't think you can say that
enough.
How much you appreciate thepeople that support your
community.
Yeah.
Let's shift now.
Looking forward to season four.
You floated the idea of acycling over 60 group ride in
September 2025.
We're now past that date.
What's the story there?
And is a group ride stillsomething that you want to
(25:06):
pursue in season four?
Tom Butler (25:08):
Absolutely, yes.
I want to do the group ride.
So I think I did the episode onseason three and what we were
looking forward to, like aboutthis same time, a year ago.
Over season three, there was alot of planning, things got
interrupted a little bit forwhat we were gonna do.
(25:28):
But I think everything that Iwanted to accomplish with the
event, it happened on September14th.
Everything that I wanted toaccomplish for that event, I
accomplished.
And I'm really happy to belooking forward to growing that.
I think one of the biggestthings was having a really fun
ride and having different ridesfor different people of
(25:51):
different abilities and reallysupporting that, but then also
having it be more of an event,just a celebration.
So a celebration of cyclinglater in life.
And I really am optimistic thatit can be like maybe the best
celebration of older cyclists inthe nation, you know.
(26:13):
Why not?
And so I'm having really goodconversations with people, and
I'm really confident inSeptember of 2026, it will start
emerging as a real awesomeevent.
McKenna Miler (26:24):
That was really fun to be part of.
Tom Butler (26:28):
I do want to look at getting you special cycling
over 60 support jerseys.
You know, people look at youand go, You're here, you know,
but you're definitely not over60.
But you know, cycling over 60is about embracing cycling later
in life, no matter what age youare.
So, really, you know, we'relooking at people that are 55,
(26:49):
people are maybe looking atretirement, but at the same
time, to have younger peoplethere, you know, and seeing, I
it's inspirational, right?
When you see people that areolder cycling, staying fit, and
everything, I think that's aninspiration to everybody.
McKenna Miler (27:07):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, I routinely say that,and I said it at the event, you
know, I'm really looking forwardto my 50s and 60s.
I think there's a lot of coolmilestones that you hit.
And especially as a woman, I'mjust really looking forward to
that freedom and that part of mylife.
Tom Butler (27:20):
And cycling can be a huge part of that.
So, yeah.
McKenna Miler (27:23):
Absolutely.
At 116 episodes in, you'veinterviewed dozens of experts
and everyday cyclists.
How has hosting this podcastchanged you as a person beyond
just your fitness level?
Tom Butler (27:35):
It's a really interesting question because
obviously there were changesgoing on in me throughout the
first three seasons.
Like I said, I didn't plan onit lasting this long, but it has
kept going.
So anything that that's like aweekly thing for that long a
(27:56):
time has an impact.
The thing that I think about isI've gotten a lot of feedback
about the questions that I askand also the tone that I set,
that's kind of a conversationaltone.
I like that.
And I'm finding that I want tofocus more on that ability.
And I think that can't help butchange me and have me grow.
(28:21):
You know, being interested inwhat others have to say, being
interested in creating aconversation, thinking, how do I
take my curiosity, put it in aform of a question, and draw out
things with people.
I think that's a a wonderfulthing uh to be developing.
(28:43):
I don't know how much I candevelop as like a professional
podcaster.
I have to edit myself a lot, asmuch as anybody that's a guest.
I have to edit me.
And one thing about that is Idon't think I could ever do
video.
I would have to grow so much tobe able to do video or to do
(29:06):
live.
Because I find it's moredifficult now for me at my age
to think on the fly.
I don't think I'm gonna be ableto do something like video, but
it's something for me to worktowards.
One thing that I would say thatmy mind has just been blown
(29:27):
over and over again is what canbe shaped later on in life.
Our brains are not set in stoneat 60 years old.
So I can't look at myself andgo, you can't teach old dogs new
tricks.
I have to be open that maybe Ican polish what I do up enough
(29:48):
that it would be good for videoor something.
Again, I think that shaping ofme as someone that can really
create a space to have goodconversations and increasing
that ability, uh that'sobviously been changed over
time.
McKenna Miler (30:05):
The change that I've seen you make in your
fitness level since you startedthis podcast and first set out
to do the Seattle to Portlandbike ride with Garen.
I mean, it's been absolutelyphenomenal to witness.
I certainly have felt myselfthat's like, okay, I can set
myself on a path now to reallyhelp me be successful later in
(30:30):
life, but also it's never toolate to start.
And I really appreciate that.
Tom Butler (30:35):
That is the message that I want to pass on to you.
I want to be a father that youlook at and you go, okay, when
you're older, you can be fit.
And it's wonderful that thatyou see that.
McKenna Miler (30:50):
Yeah.
I have both parents to look upto for sure.
Tom Butler (30:54):
Nice.
McKenna Miler (30:54):
What's one cycling experience or adventure
that you've never mentioned onthe podcast that you're secretly
dreaming about for season four?
Tom Butler (31:03):
It's hard to think of something because I pretty
much whatever comes to my mind,I share on the podcast.
So if I'm thinking aboutsomething exciting about
something, I share it.
So I'd have to like really Ihave to look at kind of the
fringes of stuff.
And there is one thing I canthink of.
We interestingly have quite afew podcasts that have been
(31:26):
listened to by people inLimerick, Ireland.
And also there's some in Dublinas well.
I would love to pull this off.
And maybe season four, it's toooptimistic to think we could do
this in season four, but to doa bike ride from Limerick to
Dublin, that would be absolutelyfantastic.
And this is kind of someinsight the way that my brain
(31:47):
works.
I have all these things parkedin my brain, thousands of ideas
in my brain.
If I notice something like, oh,here's a company that does bike
rides in Ireland, I kind of addthat to my file in my brain
about doing Limerick to Dublin.
So that's probably the thingthat I haven't shared that's on
(32:09):
my list of things I'd like todo.
McKenna Miler (32:11):
Garen and I call that the idea bookshelf.
Okay.
When you have an idea.
And it honestly helps becauseyou can say this is for the idea
bookshelf.
And so it's like, okay, I don'thave to base my next steps on
this idea.
This is just something we sayand we can park it up there on
the bookshelf.
Tom Butler (32:27):
Right.
And it's interesting becauseyou guys are 25.
And so if you think I'd like todo a bike ride from Limerick to
Dublin someday, you've got along time to make that happen.
I'm tempted to say, oh mygoodness, at my age, this has to
happen.
And that was like with SDP,when I was like, well, I missed
(32:48):
the opportunity to do SDP.
But the truth of the matter is,I have to look at things and
say, if this doesn't happen for10 years, it still can happen.
But I surely want to make ithappen sooner than that.
McKenna Miler (33:06):
That would just be so much fun.
I think we have to get thoseofficial support jerseys because
you're not doing that withoutme.
Tom Butler (33:14):
Yeah, we we will definitely need two support
riders.
McKenna Miler (33:18):
I have to ask, how far would that bike ride be?
Tom Butler (33:21):
I don't know, but I think of Ireland as not being
that huge.
I mean, riding from Seattle toPortland is 206 miles.
That's a long way.
The spaces, especially in thewestern part of the US, are so
far.
I don't think Ireland will bethat far.
(33:43):
Maybe you should look that up.
McKenna Miler (33:44):
Okay, so it looks like from Dublin to Limerick,
238 kilometers.
Tom Butler (33:50):
Okay, so 100 kilometers is about 63 miles.
So it's like 120.
What was it?
What 200 and what?
McKenna Miler (33:59):
238.
Tom Butler (34:00):
238.
So to do a two-day trip, 70miles a day, 75 miles a day, or
something like that, you know,120 kilometers in a day, or may
we do a three-day trip?
I the thing is going overthere, I don't want to buzz
through, you know, but if wemade it a three-day trip, that
(34:20):
would be a great three-day trip.
Perfect.
Okay, so if you live inLimerick, let me know.
Is there a good route?
You know, a good bike routefrom Limerick to Dublin, or
better yet, is there a tourcompany or is there a group?
You know, is there a Limerickbike club that would want to do
a ride from Limerick to Dublin?
(34:41):
I'd love to make that happen.
McKenna Miler (34:42):
That'd be way too cool.
Bringing it back in, looking atthe three focus areas from
season three (34:48):
longevity, community expansion, and bigger
cycling adventures.
Which one needs the mostattention in season four?
Tom Butler (34:57):
The ideal would be to elevate all of them, right?
But I do want to go deeper intolongevity.
I talked about the bicycle as amedical device.
I do want to dig deeper intothat.
And I do want to get more intohow important activity is and
(35:20):
what's happening when you'reactive.
And what happens if you haven'tbeen active, you're 55 or 60,
and you haven't been active, andyou start getting active.
What impact can exercise haveat that point?
I do you want to get deeperinto science about that?
(35:40):
I just finished a book, thatit's an older book called
Younger Next Year.
And there are a bunch ofconcepts from that book that I'd
like to explore further.
One thing that comes out ofthat book, and I've heard it in
other places too, but reallyemphasized in that book is that
there is no standing still.
You are either decaying oryou're growing.
(36:03):
So to grow, you have to beactive.
Understanding that more, why isthat?
Why is there no I can stop andstay at a place?
Why do I have to be active inorder to not decay?
I think I want to really digdeep into that in season four.
McKenna Miler (36:23):
Are there any new areas that you want to focus on
in season four?
Tom Butler (36:28):
I did an episode on November 9th last year about
cyclocross.
And I did my first cyclocrossrace.
I did that.
You know, I talked about that abit last episode.
I want to explore cyclocrossmore in season four because it's
an interesting experience forcycling, as far as I'm
concerned.
I'd like to bring somelisteners along on the
(36:51):
cyclocross journey with me.
That's one of those new areasthat I want to focus on.
McKenna Miler (36:57):
You said you did your first cyclocross race.
You also won your first cyclecross race, which I think is
just fantastic.
Tom Butler (37:04):
Well, that has to be taken in context, which was
that there was no one else myage in my category.
McKenna Miler (37:14):
But that itself is a testament to you going out
there and doing that.
I mean, it's awesome.
Tom Butler (37:19):
I think more of a testament is that I didn't walk
off the course.
I mean, I stayed with it, but Iwas slow.
I was really slow.
This is another one of thesethings.
Like, I need another bike.
I mean, I'm just sorry, but Ineed another bike.
I need a bike, and this isdefinitely a possibility.
(37:40):
I need a cycle cross bike thatis also a bike camping bike
that's also a gravel bike.
You see, one bike, all of themright.
McKenna Miler (37:51):
So convince the committee.
Tom Butler (37:54):
Yes, I need to I need to get the proposal to
committee.
Okay.
McKenna Miler (37:58):
Sail to Portland has also been a big part of all
three seasons.
Do you plan on it being part ofseason four?
Tom Butler (38:05):
Yes, I do.
McKenna Miler (38:06):
Good.
Tom Butler (38:07):
Are you planning on SDP being a part of your season
four?
McKenna Miler (38:11):
Absolutely.
Okay.
Absolutely.
We kind of mentioned that I'mgett getting settled into this
new place with Garen, and one ofthose things is that we have a
really nice gym in the buildingthat we're in now.
And I'm really excited to startutilizing that to help me get
to my fullest potential.
Tom Butler (38:28):
Yeah.
I think last year it was sointeresting doing the STP the
way that we did it last year.
I mean, we went faster by a lotthan we had done the other two
years.
I'm looking forward to having adifferent experience next year.
I'm looking forward to youdoing it for the first time and
us all focusing on you having agreat STP.
(38:52):
I do think you want to go intoit fit.
McKenna Miler (38:56):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (38:56):
If you go into it at like peak fitness, I will have
a heck of a time keeping up withyou.
I know that that's true.
Although I am increasing myfunctional threshold power,
maybe I'll be okay.
But if you go into peakfitness, I think you're really
gonna enjoy it.
McKenna Miler (39:13):
In order to get there, I have to figure out how
to be on a bike consistently.
And that is something that ishard for me in the wintertime in
Seattle because it gets darkand I get home and it's dark.
So that's gonna be a realchallenge for me.
I mean, I've been committed.
I did STP in 2024.
I got through that first day,but I think it was because my
(39:34):
body was really pushing forthat.
Like I can push my body to doit, but I got sick.
So I know that I need to be ata higher level of fitness in
order to not just push my bodyover the edge.
Tom Butler (39:46):
And I'm really hoping that it's not as hot as
it's been.
That's a problem being thathot.
McKenna Miler (39:54):
It's probably less of a problem for me than it
is for you, but it's definitelysomething that contributed.
Tom Butler (40:00):
Yeah.
I think it's so interestingbecause I'm a different place.
Psyching over 60 has reallybecome like a mission for me.
And my focus on being aninspiration to others when I can
be, finding the informationthat people need to be cycling
later on in life.
It's really become like mylife's focus right now.
(40:24):
It's different for me when I'mout on the bike.
I'm doing my mission.
It's part of my mission.
Even at that, it's hard for me.
I mean, in the last coupleweeks, it's been hard for me to
find the time to get out.
For you guys at 25, theculture, the world, everything
(40:45):
is not pushing you to go out andgo for a bike ride.
You have to push against theculture.
You have to push against whatis considered how to live your
life in order to find the timeto be out on the bike.
You know, Garen has a littlebit of an easier time because he
can commute by bike, but it'stough.
(41:07):
I don't know how you do it.
You have to fight for it.
McKenna Miler (41:11):
The thing I think about is do I need to get a
bike trainer put up down in ourgym in our building?
Tom Butler (41:18):
I would say yes, because I'm selfish.
Because if you could get onZwift, then we could ride
together, and it's a really goodway to kind of see what's
happening with your fitness.
McKenna Miler (41:35):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (41:35):
I'd say yes.
You need to get a trainer.
McKenna Miler (41:38):
Maybe an even bigger part of our family for
you when it comes to yourupcoming adventures is mom.
She's been a part of yourjourney in these past three
seasons.
What role do you see herplaying in your season four
adventures?
Tom Butler (41:53):
Definitely her encouragement has been massive.
It has been essential.
That's a big role that she willcontinue to play, I know.
And I'm not really sure, to behonest.
She has had this kind of crazyperiod in her life, and it got
really complicated with thepassing of her father.
That created a whole bunch ofdemands on her time.
(42:16):
I think things might bestabilizing a bit.
There's been some changes, andI think maybe they can get
stabilized, but I don't know forsure.
When we went up and did theride in Victoria, that was
something she needed.
She had stuff that she had todo.
And I don't think we would havedone that trip if we hadn't
(42:36):
already paid to do the tour andeverything.
But it fed her on a reallyimportant emotional level,
physical level, everything.
It was really important.
And if we don't force thosetimes, she will just be
overloaded with all the thingsshe has to do.
I really want to make sure thatactive recreation is a part of
(43:01):
our lives.
And I think that the bikes aregreat for that.
And we have a bike that worksreal well for her.
If we're on trails, we're notin traffic.
I anticipate that us ridingtogether will continue to be
part of the story of seasonfour.
McKenna Miler (43:15):
And obviously, if her daughter is going along,
that can be a little bit more ofa motivating factor for her to
get out there.
Tom Butler (43:24):
Yeah.
I mean, that whenever I can saywe're gonna go for a bike ride
with McKenna and Garen, she'sthere.
So yes, that's for sure thecase.
McKenna Miler (43:35):
After 116 episodes of sharing your journey
publicly, what is the hardestpart about being this
transparent about your strugglesand your setbacks?
Tom Butler (43:46):
I don't like letting people down.
I know that's part of theprocess.
When I didn't make it acrossthe state of Washington, that
was a big deal for me.
And when I say things like, Iwant to do this or I want to do
that, and I don't make it, Ifeel like I'm letting people
down.
Now, part of that's goodbecause, you know, if like I
(44:11):
didn't do a lot of cycling thisweek, and people are watching.
I want people to see me goingout there and getting on the
bike.
I want to be really clearthough, I don't get negative
feedback from people from thepodcast.
I only get positive feedback.
The only time I got negativefeedback was when someone felt
like I pushed your mom too much,which was fun, you know, that
(44:33):
like they're watching out forKelly.
Yeah, people are supersupportive, and that's really
cool.
So I shouldn't feel nervousabout that, but there is that
thing about being so transparentabout things that I want to do
and then not make it or failingor whatever.
That that's kind of difficult.
McKenna Miler (44:52):
You can have a strong inner critic.
So I'm I'm honestly very happyto hear that you've gotten
really good positive feedback,and your family does try to
uplift you as much as we can.
Tom Butler (45:02):
You guys are fantastic.
You guys are too generous withyour like, yay, just like we
said about me winning thatthing.
You guys are really generous.
I I love you guys so much forhow much you've been supporting
me.
It's just awesome.
McKenna Miler (45:17):
Well, it's super fun to watch you and super fun
to cheer you on.
Tom Butler (45:20):
Cool, cool.
McKenna Miler (45:21):
If someone discovers the podcast for the
first time with this season fourpremiere, what's the one lesson
from all your episodes thatyou'd want them to take away?
Tom Butler (45:32):
Beyond a doubt, I want people to be able to look
at my progress and see that at62 I'm still getting stronger.
I recently posted a picture onthe Cycling Over 60 Instagram.
People really responded to it.
It was of me doing the cyclecross race and I'm jumping over
(45:52):
these barriers.
I'm laughing because I'm beingso slow, but people said that
they felt inspired by thatpicture.
It doesn't get better thanthat.
I want people to be inspired.
You know, if you're 55 andyou've not been active, to know
that when you get active, youcan get stronger.
(46:15):
When I did 25 weeks in a row oftwo days a week of
weightlifting, I changed myshape.
I changed my strength.
I changed how I was able tofunction.
There's going to be a pointwhere I'm not getting stronger.
But I think that's still adecade away.
Even if I maintain that'sfantastic.
(46:37):
So, yeah, this is the firsttime listening to Cycle Number
60.
What you're gonna hear here isthat you can get stronger later
in life.
Season four, you're gonna hearmore about just all the ways
that being consistently activehelps you step back in time.
I'm younger now than I was whenI was 55, you know, maybe even
(47:00):
50.
It's really worth taking it on.
McKenna Miler (47:04):
I mean, that photo is easily one of my top
five favorite photos now.
So I'm so glad that you gotsuch a great response from it.
Tom Butler (47:11):
Yeah, it's so funny to think about that.
I was having a good time.
You know, you can say thatpicture I was having a good
time, but I got lapped byeverybody.
I was the oldest person in thatround.
Uh I got lapped by everybody,but it really wasn't, you know,
that's not what it was about.
It really was about that was myfirst time.
(47:32):
I made a decision like two daysbefore to do it.
I hadn't really done all of thetraining that I had planned to
do before I did my first cycleacross race.
I was on a bike that's not thatfast of a bike.
Callback to getting a new bike.
It was it was a fun time, youknow.
But also in that picture, yousee somebody that is in better
(47:55):
shape than they were, you know,like a decade ago.
I want that to be the kind ofinspiration that my journey
gives people.
McKenna Miler (48:02):
Absolutely.
I still hug you sometimes, andit is a different form than I
was used to for 20 years of mylife.
Tom Butler (48:09):
Yeah, what a statement.
I mean, that's so cool.
McKenna Miler (48:12):
Let's finish up with this.
Give one specific bold goal forseason four that makes you a
little nervous to say out loud,something that will really push
you to the next level.
Tom Butler (48:23):
So you're asking that question after I had said,
you know, that I'm kind ofafraid of failing.
And now you're saying, okay,make a bold prediction.
I'm gonna try to do that.
I mentioned this book that Ihave been reading, and they
stress that you have to do sixdays a week of activity.
(48:45):
Doing six days a week is thething that keeps you from
decaying, it's a thing thattriggers growth.
And I'm really bought into thatconcept, and so that's what I
want to do to make sure that I'mdoing activity six days a week,
every single week for seasonfour.
(49:05):
That's what I'll throw outthere that I want to have that
level of consistency.
What that means is two days aweek of lifting, four days a
week of cycling, and it needs tobe at least 20 minutes.
I think it's not a qualifyinglevel activity if it's less than
(49:26):
20 minutes.
So at least 20 minutes, fourtimes a week of cycling, lifting
two times a week, and that hasto also include, which I'm not
happy about, but it has to alsoinclude like squats or something
that works my lower bodybecause I'm not doing that kind
of stress when I'm on the bike.
When I'm climbing a steep hill,I feel like I am doing that
(49:50):
kind of stress.
So I don't know, but I'mconvinced that I I need to do
some some kind of lower bodylifting.
I'll tack on.
This isn't new.
I still might need to work onflexibility.
What I still might need just alittle bit more focus on
(50:13):
flexibility.
McKenna Miler (50:14):
I'd be happy to see that.
Tom Butler (50:15):
I know you would.
McKenna Miler (50:19):
I love hearing that.
I love hearing that you havethese goals.
They don't seem like superstretch goals to me, but I'm I'm
really excited to hear howyou're pushing yourself.
It's always fun to watch you onthis journey.
And it's been really fun tohost this episode and to talk
with you and to ask you thesequestions.
Tom Butler (50:39):
Well, I think you did a great job.
Uh, I think you could probablytake over my job as a host if
you were over 60.
But uh I yeah, this has beenfun.
You this made this really fun.
So thank you.
McKenna Miler (50:54):
Absolutely.
I'm I'm more than happy to passthe hosting baton back to you.
Tom Butler (50:58):
Okay, well, I'll take it.
And I'll see you later.
McKenna Miler (51:01):
Sounds good.
Tom Butler (51:02):
Bye.
I kind of thought that six daysa week, with two of them being
upper body workouts, is not thatbig of a goal.
But I know that I haven't beenthat consistent.
I was hoping to find a quickway to see how many weeks I did
(51:24):
six sessions a week last season,but I wasn't able to find that
data.
But starting next week, thatwill be my goal.
I don't currently log my upperbody workouts, so that will be
something that I will be addingto Strava.
And I'll be really interestedto see how this goes.
I do think there'll be somereally good lessons to bring to
the podcast.
I want to remind people thatI'm working to take a big
(51:45):
cycling over 60 team to the Tourto Cure Pacific Northwest next
spring.
Although it seems early, itisn't too early to make plans
and to join the team.
November is National DiabetesAwareness Month, so it's a
really good time to join theteam.
You can find the team link inthe show notes or go to the Tour
to Cure webpage and find thesearch button.
(52:07):
Put in Cycling Over 60, allspelled out, and you will see
who is currently signed up.
You can find a link to the teampage there, and if you navigate
to the page, you can sign upfor the team.
If you're already here in thearea or if it's possible for you
to travel to the area nextspring, I would love to have you
join us for the ride.
I hope, like me, you are seeingthe huge benefits of being
(52:29):
consistently active.
And remember, age is just agear change.
This is the Cycling Over 60 Podcast, season
four episode one, launchingseason four, and this is your
host, McKenna Myler.
It's time to look back atseason three and look forward
(00:26):
into season four, so we get toput Tom Butler on the hot seat
as a guest.
So, Tom, you've done thisbefore, but what is it like for
you to be a guest on yourpodcast?
Tom Butler (00:36):
Yeah, it's never that comfortable for me.
You know, there's like anatural flow for me.
I'm naturally curious.
And so, like asking questionsand engaging with people that
way, I'm I'm comfortable withthat, but trying to answer
questions and get stuff out ofmy brain, that's a different
thing.
And I'm not very comfortable inthis place.
(00:58):
At the same time, I do thinkit's a good way to think about
things that I might not thinkabout otherwise.
McKenna Miler (01:05):
So you've just finished up season three, and
now you're going into seasonfour.
And so it's been three seasonsnow.
And as your daughter, I lookback to when you first started
this podcast, and it was reallyexciting for me.
I've kind of heard my wholelife, and and I feel this way
too, about how you have such agreat voice.
People always say, like, man,you have such a good speaking
(01:26):
voice.
And that's that's kind of funnyto say, like, you know, your
dad's voice is kind of soothingfor you to think when you're
growing up.
And it's been really fun justto see, like you said, that
natural curiosity side of you tobe able to interact with these
people to kind of have an excuseto talk to these people that
you think are super cool, butbut bring this information to
people that you love and thatthat interests you.
(01:46):
It's been really fun to see.
Tom Butler (01:48):
You know, it's interesting that you say that.
I several people have told methat I've got a good voice for
the podcast.
And I think this is like witheverybody, you know, but I hear
my voice and it sounds sodifferent to me, you know, and I
feel like I sound kind of slow,kind of like I don't know what
the word for everybody kind ofjust uh dopey.
(02:12):
I don't know what the rightword is, but so but it is
interesting, and I'm glad thatit works out that I found
something that can utilize thatside of me, I guess, is the
right way to look at it.
McKenna Miler (02:24):
Yeah, it's really cool to see.
Tom Butler (02:26):
Nice.
McKenna Miler (02:27):
All right.
Well, let's get into somequestions.
Tom Butler (02:29):
Okay.
McKenna Miler (02:30):
Are you getting tired of doing the podcast?
Tom Butler (02:33):
When I launched the podcast, I uh only thought it
was gonna be like a few monthsthat was you know just about
reporting on this journey oftrying to get to do the STP.
I was just trying to see howfar I could go.
So after that was done, justnever felt like work or
(02:57):
anything.
It always felt like fun, andthere was always more experts
that I wanted their opinion,always more people that I was
interested in talking to.
People started reaching out andgiving their story, or they'd
tell something about somebodythat they knew.
And it's just alwaysinteresting to me.
(03:18):
And so it's never gotten old.
And in fact, this summer Ididn't do that many podcasts.
It was a really crazy summer,and I missed it and I missed the
conversations.
I'm not tired of it, and itdoesn't feel like I will be
because if I would run out ofinteresting things, maybe, but I
(03:39):
just don't see that happening.
McKenna Miler (03:41):
Yeah, definitely there's not gonna be an end to
your curiosity.
Tom Butler (03:45):
Yes, I think that's true, and I'm glad.
McKenna Miler (03:49):
You kicked off season three with goals across
three areas writing goals,health goals, and community
goals.
As you look back now at 116episodes total, which of those
three goals surprised you mostin terms of how it actually
unfolded?
Tom Butler (04:08):
Uh, yeah, that's an interesting question.
I guess I'd have to say thecommunity piece.
Specifically, how my role withTacoma Washington Bicycle Club
emerged.
I see the bicycle club as animportant component of a cycling
over 60 community.
And so as we're building thisfirst community in Tacoma, which
(04:31):
is taking longer than I than Ihad hoped.
But as I'm building it, I I didtake on this role of community
and government relationsdirector at Tacoma Washington
Bicycle Club.
And that has been such amassive education for me as far
as advocacy is currentlyconcerned, as far as what
(04:53):
happens to make bikeinfrastructure move forward.
The president of the club, BobMeirich, is such a you know, 40
years of bike advocacy.
And it's just been awesomebeing able to hear from him
about how things happen.
That's been a really differentkind of role that I that I'm
(05:19):
truly enjoying.
Yeah, and actually gettingrevved up about.
I can get revved up aboutstuff, you know, like social
justice stuff and all kinds ofstuff, I can get revved up
about.
So bike infrastructure issomething that I can get really
passionate about.
So it's it's been surprisinghow that has unfolded.
McKenna Miler (05:38):
In seeing how these goals have unfurled, you
set a goal to do seven organizedrides with at least three
outside of Washington State.
How did that pan out?
And what was your favoriteexperience?
Tom Butler (05:51):
It ended up being a lot harder to do seven rides
than I thought.
And hoping that that's justthis summer.
We did have a really crazysummer.
And I'm hoping that I'll beable to do more in the future.
So I did six.
I only did one ride that wastechnically outside of
Washington, but it wasinteresting because I took my
(06:14):
bike along on some trips that wedid as a family.
I rode with the Eugene BicycleClub gears down in Oregon.
And also on July 4th, I rode inIdaho.
I also rode in Lebanon, Oregon,which was really cool because I
got to experience some backroads, and it was a like a
(06:35):
different environment that I wasused to.
So even though I didn't do alot of organized rides out of
Washington, I did experience alot of really cool environments
because I took my bike along.
McKenna Miler (06:52):
So would you say that was your your favorite ride
experience was experiencingthose back roads?
Tom Butler (06:57):
No, that's a really good experience.
But definitely, I would have tosay, doing the tour to
Victoria.
That was something that I didwith Kelly with your mom.
And it was just a really funtrip.
And just the way that theyorganized that ride, even though
(07:18):
we got soaked in the first halfof the ride, the weather
cleared up and it was just afantastic ride.
And I really look forward todoing it again.
There are two different thingsgoing on.
One, like being out on theseback roads that I hadn't
experienced ever before.
And the the ride that I did inOregon, uh, that we went to the
(07:39):
wedding.
Where did we enterprise?
You stayed in Enterprise,right?
McKenna Miler (07:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tom Butler (07:43):
What's that little town on the way to the
mountains?
Joseph.
McKenna Miler (07:46):
Where I got engaged.
Continue.
That little town in themountains where I got engaged.
Minor detail about yourdaughter.
Tom Butler (07:55):
Yeah.
So that very significant townin Oregon.
You know, riding around outthere, that was pretty magical.
I talked about that in anotherpodcast.
So if you can find it, but soyou might want to go back and
listen to that.
That was really cool, but therewas something really just
(08:16):
special about riding that Tourde Victoria with Kelly and just
how well of a job they did withit.
And of course, it was a weekendtrip and we had a lot of fun.
Well, yeah, that had to be thehighlight of season three.
McKenna Miler (09:40):
Yeah, Garen and I missed out on that bike ride.
And after seeing those picturesand videos that you guys had,
man, that was one to miss.
I wish we could have been therefor that.
Tom Butler (09:49):
You guys need to do that.
And you didn't miss the halfday of rain of getting soaked.
So if you do it in the future,you got a chance of weather
being better, and that wouldeven make it more awesome.
But yeah, you guys, you guyshave to do that.
McKenna Miler (10:03):
I mean, we bike all year round.
We're in Seattle.
We know, we know how to dothat.
Tom Butler (10:08):
And that was the thing obvious about that ride is
that you're with a bunch ofpeople from the Pacific
Northwest.
Yeah, we're getting a littlebit of cat chatter, but that's
okay.
You're with people used toriding the Pacific Northwest.
So the rain didn't shut thingsdown.
And then again, it cleared upand it was really pretty.
McKenna Miler (10:27):
I know that ride was something that you really
were looking forward to.
Another thing that you werealso looking forward to was
joining the Cascade Bicycle ClubPetal Relief Project.
And you wanted to do that togive back to the community by
delivering food by bike.
Did you make that happen?
Tom Butler (10:45):
I did not make that happen.
That is still one of thosethings that I want to do, that I
really want to experience.
The thing that we did, and andwe did that together was
Cranksgiving.
That's going to be coming upagain.
I really want to do that again.
McKenna Miler (11:00):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (11:00):
That was a lot of fun.
So there was that element oflike a pedal relief kind of
activity.
And I love that.
I still want to do pedalrelief, but I know for sure that
I want to keep doingCranksgiving.
McKenna Miler (11:15):
Awesome.
I think that's just such agreat way to give back to the
community and get involved.
Bikepacking was another majorarea that you wanted to explore
in season three.
How did your first bikepackingexperiences go?
And how did they compare toyour expectations?
Tom Butler (11:30):
Unfortunately, there wasn't bikepacking experiences.
There was a bikepackingexperience.
I definitely wanted to do more.
The experience that we had wasgreat as far as like first trip
to do.
Ended up changing a bit.
And take we took a ferry over,and then the ferry coming back,
(11:56):
just the trying to make theferries work interrupted it a
bit, but it was just a reallygood taste of what bikepacking
was, and then without a lot ofrisk.
So you had driven the car over,and we did have the car there,
and that changed it a bit, butstill the bike and the you know,
(12:20):
the gear and everything got toexperience it enough to know
that I gotta do it more.
I'm still looking for a time togo out, even though it's gonna
start getting cold.
I I want to go out again beforethe weather gets really bad
here.
But uh I think there's an issuewith my bike.
(12:41):
So we might talk about thatmore.
I'm not sure that I have theperfect bike for bike camping.
I I know that I don't have theperfect bike for bike camping,
so we'll just have to see howthat, what happens with that.
McKenna Miler (12:57):
That would be really funny to see another bike
come through this podcast.
Tom Butler (13:02):
Yeah.
So Judson, you know, he's helaughs at the fact that I've
been milking the podcast forbikes.
Like he uses it uh almost as aweapon against his wife.
I think Judson, I know you'llhear this.
You know, it's like, look howmany bikes Kelly's letting Tom
get.
I I don't know.
(13:23):
I can't, I can't justify it,really.
It's like, yeah.
So there's uh because thepodcast, I'm getting more bikes,
but there's an element of it,like it almost has to happen.
It just has to happen.
I can't control it.
McKenna Miler (13:40):
Can't do anything about it.
Maybe you need to start uhpetitioning for for new bikes,
making sure you're gettingsignatures from the appropriate
people before you're have thebike purchase council.
unknown (13:52):
Yeah, okay.
Tom Butler (13:52):
You'll have to get it.
It's like a research committee.
You have to run by your planfor a new bike with the bike
purchase committee to getapproved.
I might need something likethat.
McKenna Miler (14:04):
Another application that you might need
a different bike for is gravelriding, which was also something
that you wanted to pursue,partly to ride more with my mom,
Kelly.
How has your gravel journeyprogressed?
And how has it impacted yourrelationship and cycling with my
mom?
Tom Butler (14:21):
It really has turned out not to be what we had hoped
it would be.
It's kind of a disappointingthing because Kelly doesn't like
being on the road.
And so being on gravel reallysounded like a winning idea.
At this point, with the bikeshe has, it's just not a
comfortable thing.
(14:42):
So we have not gone for agravel ride this whole season.
There's still a possibilitythat we could find something
that would work for her to dothat, and there's still, I
think, logic that gravel ridingcould be really good for us.
But it definitely did not panout to what we had hoped because
it's just gravel roads are kindof bumpy, and we haven't found
(15:04):
smooth enough gravel trails tomake it great.
In addition to that, though,we're pretty comfortable on
trails.
So we did a 60-mile ride on atrail, and that was great.
You know, we're not going to gofarther than 50 miles, and
there's a lot of good trails todo that.
So I think trail riding rightnow is more interesting than
(15:27):
gravel riding.
However, going back to bikecamping, I think that we would
be more likely to do bikecamping together on a gravel
road than on a trail.
But that might just be findingthe right trails that have
campsites, like the OlympicDiscovery Trail.
So we'll see.
But it definitely did not panout to be what we had hoped it
(15:51):
to be so far.
McKenna Miler (15:52):
Yeah, I feel like we have growth as a family.
We really want cycling to bethis thing that we can do all
together.
And it seems like we haven'tquite found that piece that we
can all do together.
And True to Victoria may havebeen that, but it'd be really
cool to find whether it'sbikepacking or gravel riding or
whatever it is that that reallybrings us together on weekends.
(16:12):
And I mean, Garen and I havestabilized and in our location a
bit more recently.
So I'm really looking forwardto kind of this next season and
how we can really come togetheras a family.
Tom Butler (16:24):
We jumped on this idea of being a cycling family
at one point.
And I feel like that was alittle bit premature.
I mean, you and Garen, you'rein a new place now.
You're gonna be starting a newjob pretty soon.
And I think you're stillfiguring out what's your rec
recreation gonna look like.
(16:45):
I want to reserve at least acouple trips, you know.
Let's put that on there.
And I think we had a great tripwhen we went to the Olympic
Discovery Trail and we spent thenight together at a really
funky little campground place,and that was super fun.
So I do want to reserve acouple things.
Maybe next year we can look atTour de Victoria together.
But yeah, I I still want thatto be one of those things that
(17:10):
we do as a family.
McKenna Miler (17:11):
Yeah, absolutely.
On August 2nd, 2024, youinterviewed Dr.
Jeffrey Gladden.
He mentioned needing anexponential strategy for the
exponential problem of aging.
In season three, you wanted topursue that idea more.
Did that happen?
Tom Butler (17:28):
I didn't do as much of that as I wanted to.
I really want to get intoindividualized medicine more and
looking at longevity andlongevity science and really dig
in deep into that.
On September 22nd, I did apodcast episode with the
(17:50):
excellent people at PhysicianCoach.
And I see Physician Coach andthe people that they have there
as really a perfect resource fordigging into this deeper.
And I'm going to be doing thatwith them, kind of for me
personally.
And then also I think theconnections that they have are
(18:10):
going to be good for me to findpeople.
And then part of it was that Ididn't do as many episodes this
summer as I wanted.
And so I just missed theopportunity to do some of the
things I wanted to do, but itstill remains a huge focus for
me.
McKenna Miler (18:29):
Yeah, the longevity focus was central to
season three.
After all the conversationswith experts this season, how
has your understanding of whatit takes to have a long and
healthy life evolved?
Tom Butler (18:42):
I I have three things right now, and I feel
like I'm still really adding tomy knowledge about this, and I
really want to add to myknowledge about this.
But for me, consistency isnumber one.
And then unfortunately, weighttraining is number two.
(19:02):
I mean, the more I listen andread about rate training, it is
just essential.
And everybody who's listeningto this, if you're not doing
weight training, you need to godo weight training.
And I'm saying that as someonethat doesn't like it.
And especially because weighttraining, you need to lift
(19:23):
weights to the point where yourmuscles are stressed and it's
uncomfortable, at least for me.
Now, some people who I envy,they like that.
They like pushing hard andtheir muscles failing and
everything, and they're like,ah, that was awesome.
I don't like that.
Cycling is different for me.
If I'm climbing up a hill andeverything, I'm hurting.
(19:44):
I get to the top of the hill.
It's like, yay, but weighttraining, there's no yay to me
with rate training.
And every time I think aboutdoing it, I'm like, oh, this is
just uncomfortable.
I wish it wasn't this way, butmy upper body will atrophy if I
don't do weight training and I'mstill in that place.
(20:05):
And I proved that in seasonthree by doing 25 weeks in a row
of two days a week lifting,that I'm able to change my
muscle strength, my physique,everything by lifting.
And that's just a functionalthing to do.
(20:26):
There's a whole bunch of thingsthat I hope to have people
speak to more that happens evenfor brain health, how lifting is
attached to the brain health.
There's just a lot that makesweight training essential.
And the final thing is I'mstill learning how to eat.
I did an episode with RussYoungberg and talked about blood
(20:50):
glucose and managing bloodglucose and insulin resistance,
and all that stuff is at thecore of my personal journey for
longevity, is figuring that out.
What I eat, how to eat tomanage my blood glucose is
number one.
There's also this reallyinteresting thing, and hopefully
(21:11):
I'll be able to get into thisin an episode, but I need to do
some more investigation of it.
And this is one of those thingswhere I talk about don't do
what I do.
You know, I'm different thanyou, you know, don't do what I
do.
I am really curious about aconcept of eating differently in
the winter time than I do inthe summer, because for most of
(21:34):
our development as humans, weate differently in the
wintertime than we did in thesummer.
And so I'm thinking there mightbe something to do that.
But that's a really wild thingthat I'm gonna be looking at
trying out.
I mean, I'm still gonna do alot of experimentation on
myself.
And I should point out that Iexperimented with something
changing my diet, and it failedmiserably.
(21:55):
And that was, you know, reallylimiting the fat that I took in.
And I'll talk about that morein some episode here coming up.
Yeah, there's still a lot forme to learn about how I'm
fueling myself.
McKenna Miler (22:08):
You wanted to optimize the cycling over 60
Strava Club and explore liveevents.
What worked, what didn't, andhow has the community grown?
Tom Butler (22:18):
I like Strava and I like having the Strava Club.
I like posting to Strava.
It is a place that Icommunicate with anybody that's
part of the Strava Club.
I know that not everybody isgoing to be on Strava.
It's not the perfect way ofcommunicating.
And I'm super disappointedbecause I reached out to Strava.
(22:40):
One of the things that I wantedto do in season three was to
figure out a way to communicate,have some communication with
Strava.
I don't think that's possible.
I think Strava is just really,don't they communicate with you
unless you're like REI or somebig entity like that.
And I even reached out andasked for cycling over 60 to be
(23:01):
considered an official club orwhatever, but to get a check
mark by the club's name becausethat would give me more options
as far as posting is concerned.
And they're like, you need torequest it, and then you'll
never hear back from us.
You'll either see a check oryou won't.
And I didn't see a check.
So I'm pretty disappointed withStrava as a community building
(23:22):
tool, although I did use it alot to reach out to people to
let them know things going on.
I can reach out to differentclubs in the area and post on
their Strava clubs, and thatthat was helpful, but it's not
the perfect resource.
So I'm still looking forsomething that's a better
community organization tool thanthat.
(23:45):
Or maybe it's even figuring outhow to create a cycling number
60 app that would be helpful.
That would be a big project,but that would be kind of cool.
McKenna Miler (23:54):
I've been pretty surprised recently hearing about
people starting out in theirearly careers learning how to
make new apps and how there's alot of resources about how to
make an app that's it's not toodifficult to set up.
Tom Butler (24:06):
Yeah, I have used Claude to do some stuff, and I
think it's possible thatbuilding an app would be
something that Claude could behelpful with.
If I get some spare time, I'mgonna play around with that.
It'd be awesome to have morefeedback from people about what
they'd like to see in an app.
So reach out and let me know.
(24:27):
You can find my email in theshow notes.
But again, I'm still on thesearch for something to
communicate better as acommunity.
I do want to say a shout out toeverybody that posts their
pictures with their eyes becauseI love it.
I love seeing your pictures.
I said that before, but it'strue.
McKenna Miler (24:45):
Yeah, I don't I don't think you can say that
enough.
How much you appreciate thepeople that support your
community.
Yeah.
Let's shift now.
Looking forward to season four.
You floated the idea of acycling over 60 group ride in
September 2025.
We're now past that date.
What's the story there?
And is a group ride stillsomething that you want to
(25:06):
pursue in season four?
Tom Butler (25:08):
Absolutely, yes.
I want to do the group ride.
So I think I did the episode onseason three and what we were
looking forward to, like aboutthis same time, a year ago.
Over season three, there was alot of planning, things got
interrupted a little bit forwhat we were gonna do.
(25:28):
But I think everything that Iwanted to accomplish with the
event, it happened on September14th.
Everything that I wanted toaccomplish for that event, I
accomplished.
And I'm really happy to belooking forward to growing that.
I think one of the biggestthings was having a really fun
ride and having different ridesfor different people of
(25:51):
different abilities and reallysupporting that, but then also
having it be more of an event,just a celebration.
So a celebration of cyclinglater in life.
And I really am optimistic thatit can be like maybe the best
celebration of older cyclists inthe nation, you know.
(26:13):
Why not?
And so I'm having really goodconversations with people, and
I'm really confident inSeptember of 2026, it will start
emerging as a real awesomeevent.
McKenna Miler (26:24):
That was really fun to be part of.
Tom Butler (26:28):
I do want to look at getting you special cycling
over 60 support jerseys.
You know, people look at youand go, You're here, you know,
but you're definitely not over60.
But you know, cycling over 60is about embracing cycling later
in life, no matter what age youare.
So, really, you know, we'relooking at people that are 55,
(26:49):
people are maybe looking atretirement, but at the same
time, to have younger peoplethere, you know, and seeing, I
it's inspirational, right?
When you see people that areolder cycling, staying fit, and
everything, I think that's aninspiration to everybody.
McKenna Miler (27:07):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, I routinely say that,and I said it at the event, you
know, I'm really looking forwardto my 50s and 60s.
I think there's a lot of coolmilestones that you hit.
And especially as a woman, I'mjust really looking forward to
that freedom and that part of mylife.
Tom Butler (27:20):
And cycling can be a huge part of that.
So, yeah.
McKenna Miler (27:23):
Absolutely.
At 116 episodes in, you'veinterviewed dozens of experts
and everyday cyclists.
How has hosting this podcastchanged you as a person beyond
just your fitness level?
Tom Butler (27:35):
It's a really interesting question because
obviously there were changesgoing on in me throughout the
first three seasons.
Like I said, I didn't plan onit lasting this long, but it has
kept going.
So anything that that's like aweekly thing for that long a
(27:56):
time has an impact.
The thing that I think about isI've gotten a lot of feedback
about the questions that I askand also the tone that I set,
that's kind of a conversationaltone.
I like that.
And I'm finding that I want tofocus more on that ability.
And I think that can't help butchange me and have me grow.
(28:21):
You know, being interested inwhat others have to say, being
interested in creating aconversation, thinking, how do I
take my curiosity, put it in aform of a question, and draw out
things with people.
I think that's a a wonderfulthing uh to be developing.
(28:43):
I don't know how much I candevelop as like a professional
podcaster.
I have to edit myself a lot, asmuch as anybody that's a guest.
I have to edit me.
And one thing about that is Idon't think I could ever do
video.
I would have to grow so much tobe able to do video or to do
(29:06):
live.
Because I find it's moredifficult now for me at my age
to think on the fly.
I don't think I'm gonna be ableto do something like video, but
it's something for me to worktowards.
One thing that I would say thatmy mind has just been blown
(29:27):
over and over again is what canbe shaped later on in life.
Our brains are not set in stoneat 60 years old.
So I can't look at myself andgo, you can't teach old dogs new
tricks.
I have to be open that maybe Ican polish what I do up enough
(29:48):
that it would be good for videoor something.
Again, I think that shaping ofme as someone that can really
create a space to have goodconversations and increasing
that ability, uh that'sobviously been changed over
time.
McKenna Miler (30:05):
The change that I've seen you make in your
fitness level since you startedthis podcast and first set out
to do the Seattle to Portlandbike ride with Garen.
I mean, it's been absolutelyphenomenal to witness.
I certainly have felt myselfthat's like, okay, I can set
myself on a path now to reallyhelp me be successful later in
(30:30):
life, but also it's never toolate to start.
And I really appreciate that.
Tom Butler (30:35):
That is the message that I want to pass on to you.
I want to be a father that youlook at and you go, okay, when
you're older, you can be fit.
And it's wonderful that thatyou see that.
McKenna Miler (30:50):
Yeah.
I have both parents to look upto for sure.
Tom Butler (30:54):
Nice.
McKenna Miler (30:54):
What's one cycling experience or adventure
that you've never mentioned onthe podcast that you're secretly
dreaming about for season four?
Tom Butler (31:03):
It's hard to think of something because I pretty
much whatever comes to my mind,I share on the podcast.
So if I'm thinking aboutsomething exciting about
something, I share it.
So I'd have to like really Ihave to look at kind of the
fringes of stuff.
And there is one thing I canthink of.
We interestingly have quite afew podcasts that have been
(31:26):
listened to by people inLimerick, Ireland.
And also there's some in Dublinas well.
I would love to pull this off.
And maybe season four, it's toooptimistic to think we could do
this in season four, but to doa bike ride from Limerick to
Dublin, that would be absolutelyfantastic.
And this is kind of someinsight the way that my brain
(31:47):
works.
I have all these things parkedin my brain, thousands of ideas
in my brain.
If I notice something like, oh,here's a company that does bike
rides in Ireland, I kind of addthat to my file in my brain
about doing Limerick to Dublin.
So that's probably the thingthat I haven't shared that's on
(32:09):
my list of things I'd like todo.
McKenna Miler (32:11):
Garen and I call that the idea bookshelf.
Okay.
When you have an idea.
And it honestly helps becauseyou can say this is for the idea
bookshelf.
And so it's like, okay, I don'thave to base my next steps on
this idea.
This is just something we sayand we can park it up there on
the bookshelf.
Tom Butler (32:27):
Right.
And it's interesting becauseyou guys are 25.
And so if you think I'd like todo a bike ride from Limerick to
Dublin someday, you've got along time to make that happen.
I'm tempted to say, oh mygoodness, at my age, this has to
happen.
And that was like with SDP,when I was like, well, I missed
(32:48):
the opportunity to do SDP.
But the truth of the matter is,I have to look at things and
say, if this doesn't happen for10 years, it still can happen.
But I surely want to make ithappen sooner than that.
McKenna Miler (33:06):
That would just be so much fun.
I think we have to get thoseofficial support jerseys because
you're not doing that withoutme.
Tom Butler (33:14):
Yeah, we we will definitely need two support
riders.
McKenna Miler (33:18):
I have to ask, how far would that bike ride be?
Tom Butler (33:21):
I don't know, but I think of Ireland as not being
that huge.
I mean, riding from Seattle toPortland is 206 miles.
That's a long way.
The spaces, especially in thewestern part of the US, are so
far.
I don't think Ireland will bethat far.
(33:43):
Maybe you should look that up.
McKenna Miler (33:44):
Okay, so it looks like from Dublin to Limerick,
238 kilometers.
Tom Butler (33:50):
Okay, so 100 kilometers is about 63 miles.
So it's like 120.
What was it?
What 200 and what?
McKenna Miler (33:59):
238.
Tom Butler (34:00):
238.
So to do a two-day trip, 70miles a day, 75 miles a day, or
something like that, you know,120 kilometers in a day, or may
we do a three-day trip?
I the thing is going overthere, I don't want to buzz
through, you know, but if wemade it a three-day trip, that
(34:20):
would be a great three-day trip.
Perfect.
Okay, so if you live inLimerick, let me know.
Is there a good route?
You know, a good bike routefrom Limerick to Dublin, or
better yet, is there a tourcompany or is there a group?
You know, is there a Limerickbike club that would want to do
a ride from Limerick to Dublin?
(34:41):
I'd love to make that happen.
McKenna Miler (34:42):
That'd be way too cool.
Bringing it back in, looking atthe three focus areas from
season three (34:48):
longevity, community expansion, and bigger
cycling adventures.
Which one needs the mostattention in season four?
Tom Butler (34:57):
The ideal would be to elevate all of them, right?
But I do want to go deeper intolongevity.
I talked about the bicycle as amedical device.
I do want to dig deeper intothat.
And I do want to get more intohow important activity is and
(35:20):
what's happening when you'reactive.
And what happens if you haven'tbeen active, you're 55 or 60,
and you haven't been active, andyou start getting active.
What impact can exercise haveat that point?
I do you want to get deeperinto science about that?
(35:40):
I just finished a book, thatit's an older book called
Younger Next Year.
And there are a bunch ofconcepts from that book that I'd
like to explore further.
One thing that comes out ofthat book, and I've heard it in
other places too, but reallyemphasized in that book is that
there is no standing still.
You are either decaying oryou're growing.
(36:03):
So to grow, you have to beactive.
Understanding that more, why isthat?
Why is there no I can stop andstay at a place?
Why do I have to be active inorder to not decay?
I think I want to really digdeep into that in season four.
McKenna Miler (36:23):
Are there any new areas that you want to focus on
in season four?
Tom Butler (36:28):
I did an episode on November 9th last year about
cyclocross.
And I did my first cyclocrossrace.
I did that.
You know, I talked about that abit last episode.
I want to explore cyclocrossmore in season four because it's
an interesting experience forcycling, as far as I'm
concerned.
I'd like to bring somelisteners along on the
(36:51):
cyclocross journey with me.
That's one of those new areasthat I want to focus on.
McKenna Miler (36:57):
You said you did your first cyclocross race.
You also won your first cyclecross race, which I think is
just fantastic.
Tom Butler (37:04):
Well, that has to be taken in context, which was
that there was no one else myage in my category.
McKenna Miler (37:14):
But that itself is a testament to you going out
there and doing that.
I mean, it's awesome.
Tom Butler (37:19):
I think more of a testament is that I didn't walk
off the course.
I mean, I stayed with it, but Iwas slow.
I was really slow.
This is another one of thesethings.
Like, I need another bike.
I mean, I'm just sorry, but Ineed another bike.
I need a bike, and this isdefinitely a possibility.
(37:40):
I need a cycle cross bike thatis also a bike camping bike
that's also a gravel bike.
You see, one bike, all of themright.
McKenna Miler (37:51):
So convince the committee.
Tom Butler (37:54):
Yes, I need to I need to get the proposal to
committee.
Okay.
McKenna Miler (37:58):
Sail to Portland has also been a big part of all
three seasons.
Do you plan on it being part ofseason four?
Tom Butler (38:05):
Yes, I do.
McKenna Miler (38:06):
Good.
Tom Butler (38:07):
Are you planning on SDP being a part of your season
four?
McKenna Miler (38:11):
Absolutely.
Okay.
Absolutely.
We kind of mentioned that I'mgett getting settled into this
new place with Garen, and one ofthose things is that we have a
really nice gym in the buildingthat we're in now.
And I'm really excited to startutilizing that to help me get
to my fullest potential.
Tom Butler (38:28):
Yeah.
I think last year it was sointeresting doing the STP the
way that we did it last year.
I mean, we went faster by a lotthan we had done the other two
years.
I'm looking forward to having adifferent experience next year.
I'm looking forward to youdoing it for the first time and
us all focusing on you having agreat STP.
(38:52):
I do think you want to go intoit fit.
McKenna Miler (38:56):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (38:56):
If you go into it at like peak fitness, I will have
a heck of a time keeping up withyou.
I know that that's true.
Although I am increasing myfunctional threshold power,
maybe I'll be okay.
But if you go into peakfitness, I think you're really
gonna enjoy it.
McKenna Miler (39:13):
In order to get there, I have to figure out how
to be on a bike consistently.
And that is something that ishard for me in the wintertime in
Seattle because it gets darkand I get home and it's dark.
So that's gonna be a realchallenge for me.
I mean, I've been committed.
I did STP in 2024.
I got through that first day,but I think it was because my
(39:34):
body was really pushing forthat.
Like I can push my body to doit, but I got sick.
So I know that I need to be ata higher level of fitness in
order to not just push my bodyover the edge.
Tom Butler (39:46):
And I'm really hoping that it's not as hot as
it's been.
That's a problem being thathot.
McKenna Miler (39:54):
It's probably less of a problem for me than it
is for you, but it's definitelysomething that contributed.
Tom Butler (40:00):
Yeah.
I think it's so interestingbecause I'm a different place.
Psyching over 60 has reallybecome like a mission for me.
And my focus on being aninspiration to others when I can
be, finding the informationthat people need to be cycling
later on in life.
It's really become like mylife's focus right now.
(40:24):
It's different for me when I'mout on the bike.
I'm doing my mission.
It's part of my mission.
Even at that, it's hard for me.
I mean, in the last coupleweeks, it's been hard for me to
find the time to get out.
For you guys at 25, theculture, the world, everything
(40:45):
is not pushing you to go out andgo for a bike ride.
You have to push against theculture.
You have to push against whatis considered how to live your
life in order to find the timeto be out on the bike.
You know, Garen has a littlebit of an easier time because he
can commute by bike, but it'stough.
(41:07):
I don't know how you do it.
You have to fight for it.
McKenna Miler (41:11):
The thing I think about is do I need to get a
bike trainer put up down in ourgym in our building?
Tom Butler (41:18):
I would say yes, because I'm selfish.
Because if you could get onZwift, then we could ride
together, and it's a really goodway to kind of see what's
happening with your fitness.
McKenna Miler (41:35):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (41:35):
I'd say yes.
You need to get a trainer.
McKenna Miler (41:38):
Maybe an even bigger part of our family for
you when it comes to yourupcoming adventures is mom.
She's been a part of yourjourney in these past three
seasons.
What role do you see herplaying in your season four
adventures?
Tom Butler (41:53):
Definitely her encouragement has been massive.
It has been essential.
That's a big role that she willcontinue to play, I know.
And I'm not really sure, to behonest.
She has had this kind of crazyperiod in her life, and it got
really complicated with thepassing of her father.
That created a whole bunch ofdemands on her time.
(42:16):
I think things might bestabilizing a bit.
There's been some changes, andI think maybe they can get
stabilized, but I don't know forsure.
When we went up and did theride in Victoria, that was
something she needed.
She had stuff that she had todo.
And I don't think we would havedone that trip if we hadn't
(42:36):
already paid to do the tour andeverything.
But it fed her on a reallyimportant emotional level,
physical level, everything.
It was really important.
And if we don't force thosetimes, she will just be
overloaded with all the thingsshe has to do.
I really want to make sure thatactive recreation is a part of
(43:01):
our lives.
And I think that the bikes aregreat for that.
And we have a bike that worksreal well for her.
If we're on trails, we're notin traffic.
I anticipate that us ridingtogether will continue to be
part of the story of seasonfour.
McKenna Miler (43:15):
And obviously, if her daughter is going along,
that can be a little bit more ofa motivating factor for her to
get out there.
Tom Butler (43:24):
Yeah.
I mean, that whenever I can saywe're gonna go for a bike ride
with McKenna and Garen, she'sthere.
So yes, that's for sure thecase.
McKenna Miler (43:35):
After 116 episodes of sharing your journey
publicly, what is the hardestpart about being this
transparent about your strugglesand your setbacks?
Tom Butler (43:46):
I don't like letting people down.
I know that's part of theprocess.
When I didn't make it acrossthe state of Washington, that
was a big deal for me.
And when I say things like, Iwant to do this or I want to do
that, and I don't make it, Ifeel like I'm letting people
down.
Now, part of that's goodbecause, you know, if like I
(44:11):
didn't do a lot of cycling thisweek, and people are watching.
I want people to see me goingout there and getting on the
bike.
I want to be really clearthough, I don't get negative
feedback from people from thepodcast.
I only get positive feedback.
The only time I got negativefeedback was when someone felt
like I pushed your mom too much,which was fun, you know, that
(44:33):
like they're watching out forKelly.
Yeah, people are supersupportive, and that's really
cool.
So I shouldn't feel nervousabout that, but there is that
thing about being so transparentabout things that I want to do
and then not make it or failingor whatever.
That that's kind of difficult.
McKenna Miler (44:52):
You can have a strong inner critic.
So I'm I'm honestly very happyto hear that you've gotten
really good positive feedback,and your family does try to
uplift you as much as we can.
Tom Butler (45:02):
You guys are fantastic.
You guys are too generous withyour like, yay, just like we
said about me winning thatthing.
You guys are really generous.
I I love you guys so much forhow much you've been supporting
me.
It's just awesome.
McKenna Miler (45:17):
Well, it's super fun to watch you and super fun
to cheer you on.
Tom Butler (45:20):
Cool, cool.
McKenna Miler (45:21):
If someone discovers the podcast for the
first time with this season fourpremiere, what's the one lesson
from all your episodes thatyou'd want them to take away?
Tom Butler (45:32):
Beyond a doubt, I want people to be able to look
at my progress and see that at62 I'm still getting stronger.
I recently posted a picture onthe Cycling Over 60 Instagram.
People really responded to it.
It was of me doing the cyclecross race and I'm jumping over
(45:52):
these barriers.
I'm laughing because I'm beingso slow, but people said that
they felt inspired by thatpicture.
It doesn't get better thanthat.
I want people to be inspired.
You know, if you're 55 andyou've not been active, to know
that when you get active, youcan get stronger.
(46:15):
When I did 25 weeks in a row oftwo days a week of
weightlifting, I changed myshape.
I changed my strength.
I changed how I was able tofunction.
There's going to be a pointwhere I'm not getting stronger.
But I think that's still adecade away.
Even if I maintain that'sfantastic.
(46:37):
So, yeah, this is the firsttime listening to Cycle Number
60.
What you're gonna hear here isthat you can get stronger later
in life.
Season four, you're gonna hearmore about just all the ways
that being consistently activehelps you step back in time.
I'm younger now than I was whenI was 55, you know, maybe even
(47:00):
50.
It's really worth taking it on.
McKenna Miler (47:04):
I mean, that photo is easily one of my top
five favorite photos now.
So I'm so glad that you gotsuch a great response from it.
Tom Butler (47:11):
Yeah, it's so funny to think about that.
I was having a good time.
You know, you can say thatpicture I was having a good
time, but I got lapped byeverybody.
I was the oldest person in thatround.
Uh I got lapped by everybody,but it really wasn't, you know,
that's not what it was about.
It really was about that was myfirst time.
(47:32):
I made a decision like two daysbefore to do it.
I hadn't really done all of thetraining that I had planned to
do before I did my first cycleacross race.
I was on a bike that's not thatfast of a bike.
Callback to getting a new bike.
It was it was a fun time, youknow.
But also in that picture, yousee somebody that is in better
(47:55):
shape than they were, you know,like a decade ago.
I want that to be the kind ofinspiration that my journey
gives people.
McKenna Miler (48:02):
Absolutely.
I still hug you sometimes, andit is a different form than I
was used to for 20 years of mylife.
Tom Butler (48:09):
Yeah, what a statement.
I mean, that's so cool.
McKenna Miler (48:12):
Let's finish up with this.
Give one specific bold goal forseason four that makes you a
little nervous to say out loud,something that will really push
you to the next level.
Tom Butler (48:23):
So you're asking that question after I had said,
you know, that I'm kind ofafraid of failing.
And now you're saying, okay,make a bold prediction.
I'm gonna try to do that.
I mentioned this book that Ihave been reading, and they
stress that you have to do sixdays a week of activity.
(48:45):
Doing six days a week is thething that keeps you from
decaying, it's a thing thattriggers growth.
And I'm really bought into thatconcept, and so that's what I
want to do to make sure that I'mdoing activity six days a week,
every single week for seasonfour.
(49:05):
That's what I'll throw outthere that I want to have that
level of consistency.
What that means is two days aweek of lifting, four days a
week of cycling, and it needs tobe at least 20 minutes.
I think it's not a qualifyinglevel activity if it's less than
(49:26):
20 minutes.
So at least 20 minutes, fourtimes a week of cycling, lifting
two times a week, and that hasto also include, which I'm not
happy about, but it has to alsoinclude like squats or something
that works my lower bodybecause I'm not doing that kind
of stress when I'm on the bike.
When I'm climbing a steep hill,I feel like I am doing that
(49:50):
kind of stress.
So I don't know, but I'mconvinced that I I need to do
some some kind of lower bodylifting.
I'll tack on.
This isn't new.
I still might need to work onflexibility.
What I still might need just alittle bit more focus on
(50:13):
flexibility.
McKenna Miler (50:14):
I'd be happy to see that.
Tom Butler (50:15):
I know you would.
McKenna Miler (50:19):
I love hearing that.
I love hearing that you havethese goals.
They don't seem like superstretch goals to me, but I'm I'm
really excited to hear howyou're pushing yourself.
It's always fun to watch you onthis journey.
And it's been really fun tohost this episode and to talk
with you and to ask you thesequestions.
Tom Butler (50:39):
Well, I think you did a great job.
Uh, I think you could probablytake over my job as a host if
you were over 60.
But uh I yeah, this has beenfun.
You this made this really fun.
So thank you.
McKenna Miler (50:54):
Absolutely.
I'm I'm more than happy to passthe hosting baton back to you.
Tom Butler (50:58):
Okay, well, I'll take it.
And I'll see you later.
McKenna Miler (51:01):
Sounds good.
Tom Butler (51:02):
Bye.
I kind of thought that six daysa week, with two of them being
upper body workouts, is not thatbig of a goal.
But I know that I haven't beenthat consistent.
I was hoping to find a quickway to see how many weeks I did
(51:24):
six sessions a week last season,but I wasn't able to find that
data.
But starting next week, thatwill be my goal.
I don't currently log my upperbody workouts, so that will be
something that I will be addingto Strava.
And I'll be really interestedto see how this goes.
I do think there'll be somereally good lessons to bring to
the podcast.
I want to remind people thatI'm working to take a big
(51:45):
cycling over 60 team to the Tourto Cure Pacific Northwest next
spring.
Although it seems early, itisn't too early to make plans
and to join the team.
November is National DiabetesAwareness Month, so it's a
really good time to join theteam.
You can find the team link inthe show notes or go to the Tour
to Cure webpage and find thesearch button.
(52:07):
Put in Cycling Over 60, allspelled out, and you will see
who is currently signed up.
You can find a link to the teampage there, and if you navigate
to the page, you can sign upfor the team.
If you're already here in thearea or if it's possible for you
to travel to the area nextspring, I would love to have you
join us for the ride.
I hope, like me, you are seeingthe huge benefits of being
(52:29):
consistently active.
And remember, age is just agear change.
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