Revel Revolution Ride

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Two great reasons to tune in to Cycling Over Sixty this week! First, host Tom Butler passionately argues why the Olympic Discovery Trail deserves a spot on your cycling bucket list. Hear his insights and tips from a recent overnight trip that will have you planning your own adventure. Then, Tom connects with Gina Kavesh, a local cycling leader and co-president of the board at Cascade Bicycle Club. Gina shares her experiences in the world of racing and gives us the inside scoop on the Revel Revolution ride, a new event promising to fulfill a need for the Northwest cycling season. Don't miss this episode packed with trail inspiration and local cycling buzz!

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Episode Transcript

Tom Butler (00:04):
This is the Cycling Over 60 Podcast, season 3,
episode 27,.
Revel Revolution Ride and I'myour host, tom Butler.
I have decided to change thetime for the Cycling Over 60

(00:26):
Zwift ride, so now, instead ofZwift Thursday, we'll have Zwift
Tuesday.
I'm also moving the time to4.30 pm, pacific time and
reducing the distance to 12.5miles.
If you ride Zwift, considerjoining the Cycling Over 60
Zwift Club and joining me forZwift Tuesday.
Also, whether you're riding ornot, jump in for the Zoom chat.

(00:46):
That will happen at the sametime.
I would love to meet you viaZoom.
Send me an email for the Zoomlink.
You can find my email in theshow notes.
I'll also put the Zoom call IDand password in a Cycling Over
60 Strava post.
Unfortunately, they don't allowlinks there.
We did our first bike trip onthe Olympic Discovery Trail last
weekend and it was awesome.

(01:08):
We really liked the funky placewhere we stayed.
If you like to have a littlemore adventurous campsite, check
out the Soul Duck RainforestRetreat.
We stayed in a tent provided bythe well quote retreat.
It was an awesome tent.
There was an air mattressprovided, but Kelly and I are
wimps so we brought an extracushion to put on top of the air
mattress and that made our bedvery comfortable.

(01:30):
There was a cot in the tentwhich would have made it very
easy to fit three people.
We ended up having McKenna andGuerin stay one of the nights.
That made it a little tight,but it still worked.
The tent cost us $70 a nightfor the two of us.
There was an extra charge foradditional guests.
At the campground there arespaces to bring your own tent if
you like.
I think the tent sites are like$46 a night.

(01:54):
We had electricity in the tentand the host provided a heater.
Now the heater only put out alittle heat, which I think was
good since it wasn't a tent.
The heater took just enough ofan edge off from a night that
was pretty cold.
We did need some heavy blanketsto be warm and Kelly should
have worn heavier sleepingclothes the first night.
The only downside to the retreatwere the bathrooms.

(02:16):
Everything there was a littlerun down, but it was very
functional.
However, one of the toilets gotreally dirty and it wasn't
cleaned while we were there.
That still left two othertoilets and we never had to wait
to use them.
There were also good showers,but again the place was a little
rustic.
We were in campsite number twoand it was right next to the

(02:37):
Olympic Discovery Trail.
Some of the sites were down ashort steep hill but it was easy
to ride our bikes from our siteto the trail.
We rode 10 miles on the OlympicDiscovery Trail to Spruce
Railroad Trailhead and turnedaround there.
The return trip was aconsistent two to three percent
grade, but nothing toochallenging.
It was typical rail to trailgrade From the Spruce Railroad

(02:58):
Trailhead.
We could have continued onanother 24 miles to Port Angeles
, but we were looking for aneasy trip.
The trail runs alongsideCrescent Lake, which is
beautiful.
However, for most of the ridethe trail is quite elevated
above the lake, but the view ofthe lake through the trees was
wonderful.
I think a fantastic trip wouldbe to start in Port Angeles and

(03:19):
ride to the Soul Dock RainforestResort.
That would be 34 miles one waythen spend the night in one of
the tents and ride back the nextday.
You wouldn't need to carry atent or a mattress and possibly
not a stove.
There are a couple of areas ofthe campground that are shared
kitchen spaces.
However, we didn't use them, soI would confirm the stove's
work if you want to use thatoption and there is a fire pit,

(03:41):
so that is an option for cooking.
We booked our tent throughAirbnb and it was easy
communicating with the host,logan.
Another option would be to makea longer trip out of it.
It's a 53-mile ride from PortTownsend to Port Angeles and
then 35 miles from Port Angelesto the campground.
That would make for a reallycool four-day trip.
To turn it into a three-daytrip, it would be possible to

(04:06):
ride the 87 miles from thecampground to Port Townsend in
one day, but it is 4,500 feet ofclimbing.
The final option that I wouldconsider is starting in Sequim,
washington.
There are plenty of nicecamping options in Sequim, on
the Salish Sea.
Starting in Sequim would give a52 mile ride to the Soldock
Rainforest Retreat with 2,789feet of climbing.
The return trip would be 1,800feet of elevation.

(04:28):
A word of warning just east ofPort Angeles is a section of the
Olympic Discovery Trail that isvery steep, with a narrow,
sharp turn.
This part of the trail isdefinitely not part of an
abandoned railroad.
I truly believe that this is atrip worth traveling to do.
The Olympic Peninsula is reallybeautiful.
There really isn't an easy wayto get to the area without a car

(04:48):
.
Sadly it isn't an option totake a ferry from Seattle to
Port Angeles.
If that was possible, then youcould fly with your bike to
SeaTac Airport, assemble itthere and then you could take
your bike on the light rail andget off close to the ferry
terminal To get to the PortAngeles area.
It is either a multi-day bikeride or a car trip.

(05:10):
One idea I thought about was toship a bike.
Bikeflightscom quoted $120.21to ship a bike I randomly put in
Chicago to Squim just to seethe cost.
So obviously that cost wouldchange for other areas.
The quote included a $34 chargefor insurance.

(05:33):
It would take a week for thebike to get from Chicago to
Squim with regular groundshipping.
Second day air would cost $258compared to the $84 charge for
ground.
A cardboard bike flights boxthat would fit my Specialized
Rebay would cost $90.
Currently the website saysthey're all sold out of that
size.
Someone online recommendedgoing into a local bike shop and
seeing if they have any bikeboxes that they would be willing

(05:56):
to give for free.
The bike flights box advantageis that it comes with everything
needed to secure the bikeinside the box.
Getting a box from a bike shopprobably means figuring that out
yourself.
I chose Squim as a destinationbecause I'm familiar with a
great bike shop in Squim calledBen's Bikes.
I called and they use bikeflights a lot.
They would receive a bikeshipped there and assemble it

(06:18):
for $80.
I didn't ask what they wouldcharge just to receive a bike
without assembly.
I do think it is easy to dropoff a boxed bike at any UPS
location and bike flights havereally good instructions on how
to box it up.
And picking up at UPS might bejust as easy.
But of course then you wouldhave to do your own assembly.
One thing the person said thatI talked to at Ben's Bikes is it

(06:43):
kind of depends on how much isrequired to tune the bike up
after shipping.
My hope would be that not much.
I think what BikeFlex providesfor securing your bikes would
mean that there wouldn't be muchtweaked in the process.
I did look at Ben's Bikesoptions for rentals.
While I don't like their optionfor road bikes, if you would

(07:04):
like they do rent e-bikes.
The e-bike example theyprovided was a Trek Alliant Plus
7.
That is a $75 a day rental.
I'd want to check about keepingit overnight before relying on
that as an option.
Benz also has a Cat TrekElectric Recumbent Trek for rent
and that's two days for $175.

(07:25):
I would find that kind of funto try out Again.
I think this is an amazing areaof the country and I would
recommend anyone considering atrip out to explore it by bike.
And if you're part of theOlympic Peninsula Visitor Bureau
, you're welcome for the freepromotion.
One final note before we get tothe interview.
This week, since the FoothillsTrail Bridge was demolished that
connects the plateau I live onto the valley.

(07:47):
I have been mostly riding onthe plateau.
That means not too many hills.
While I typically look to ridedown to the valley in the south,
last week I decided to headnorth.
The Green River Valley is onthat side of the plateau.
I was exploring what I hope tobe part of a 100-mile loop when
the Foothills Trail Bridge getsrepaired.
This summer I found a route thatI'm really excited about as a

(08:10):
training ride for Seattle toPortland.
This year I'm looking to ride a40-mile section.
That route includes 1,600 feetof climbing, and that climbing
is mostly on two hills.
Each hill keeps me right on theedge of my climbing ability, so
it's a real challenge for me.
I think it is perfect to buildmy climbing capacity.
The only problem with the routeis that there are a couple

(08:30):
sections that aren't very goodbecause of traffic.
However, I think they'll befine for an early Sunday morning
ride and maybe even mid-morningwhen people are at work.
I'm confident if I keep pushingmyself on these rides, I'll be
set up for a great STP.

(08:54):
I talk a lot about CascadeBicycle Club because I think
they are an example of what itlooks like when you get a
significant number of peoplesupporting cycling in an area.
I do like it when I get to talkto leaders from the club, and
this week I'm pleased tointerview one of their board
members, gina Kavish.
As you will hear, gina is aspecial force in cycling in the
Pacific Northwest.
Here's our discussion.

(09:15):
I love it that the podcastgives me the opportunity to talk
to really interesting people,and this week I get to introduce
you to one of them.
Thank you, gina Kavish, forcoming on board.

Gina Kavesh (09:26):
Welcome.
Thanks for having me, I'mexcited.

Tom Butler (09:34):
Now you're a board member at Cascade Bicycle Club
and have been described as amatriarch of the local women's
cycling scene, and I feelfortunate to have you share your
thoughts with us today I'mmatriarchs, I guess better than
grandma, but I think I'mtechnically the grandma now, or
maybe great grandma.
Well, that's good.
Nothing wrong with being agrandma.

Gina Kavesh (09:49):
Yeah.

Tom Butler (09:51):
So what are your earliest memories of the bicycle
?

Gina Kavesh (09:55):
I think I'm common to everybody who rides a bike in
these days is as a kid thatsomewhere in elementary school I
figured out how to get thetraining wheels off and it gave
me the advantage to go ride mybike to school every so often.
But I remember going up anddown the streets I've lived on
the east side Bellevue, newportHills and during seafair you'd
put the hydroplane behind yourbike and you'd go racing down

(10:16):
the street with your kid friendsand see whose hydro would win.
So it's the precursor to theboat.
know this, the boat races atmariner games or whatever so
yeah, lots of, lots of justriding the neighborhood with no
helmet, on bikes that probablyweren't fit well, and you know,
we all survived a few scrapesand bruises right at.

Tom Butler (10:37):
At some point you started competing and you got
into bicycle racing.
What sparked that transition?

Gina Kavesh (10:50):
Yeah, that was an odd one.
I actually gave up riding Imean, I didn't ride much, you
know into college and I moved tothe Bay Area right after
college and a friend invited meto go up to wine country and do
a bike ride with her.
I had the traditional build ityourself department store bike
that somehow I ended up with andmoved with and we did a 10 mile
ride in the Bay Area up in NapaValley when you could ride a
bike and not get killed, and Iwas like this is great, I need a

(11:11):
real bike, because she had areal racing bike and I had junk.
So I went and bought a bike andthen I started riding in the
Bay Area.
Then I moved back here and atthat point I'd fallen in love
with riding.
So I started to ride and Ifound Cascade, found a group of
people to ride with, starteddoing all the events and along
the way met a gal my group offolks were doing the time I

(11:33):
think it was the DaffodilClassic, I don't even know if it
still happens and we found thisgal who'd been dropped by the
guy she was riding with.
She is still one of my closestfriends and she is still my one

(12:00):
of my closest friends and shewas an ex rower and she decided
she wanted to check out whatthis bike race thing was.
She said you got to come andI'm like OK, and she found us a
bike team and she excelled.
I did not excel immediately,but I am one stubborn person, so
once I got hooked I just keptgoing she, uh, she got away from
road riding.
Now she's, she's done all sortsof sports, but she's back into
mountain biking and downhilling,which at age 60 plus 65 or 70
doing downhilling is pretty.
Learning that sport at that ageis impressive.

Tom Butler (12:14):
Yeah, that's impressive to me.
I feel a bit intimidated bygravity on a on a mountain bike
and sharp, sharp dirt turns andeverything.
So, yeah, I'm impressed by thatyeah.

Gina Kavesh (12:25):
Yeah.
So I got into it and I justkind of kept poking at it and
eventually I got decent at it,or I should say I got pretty
good at it and I've just lovedit ever since.
Um, obviously you know you havea trajectory when you race and
you can kind of all in and thenover time, as age catches up,
you start to get a little bitmore out.
So I still compete, but notnearly as much as I used to, and

(12:46):
mostly just focus on timetrials, primarily because you
can do age category for women.
There aren't enough women inthe sport per se.
So you know, if I want to go doa bike race, I have to race
against a lot of people who wereme when I was starting.
And you know, 20 or 30 yearsdifference in age makes a big
difference on the field.
Men, there's enough men so theycan offer master categories In

(13:09):
bike racing.
Old people are masters.
I'm like golf, where seniorsare masters or seniors are old,
right.
So, yeah, so it's just.
You know, it became.
It became a passion, it becamea lifestyle.
I met my husband through bikeriding and bike racing.
It became a passion, it becamea lifestyle.
I met my husband through bikeriding and bike racing and the

(13:33):
people who took me under thewing, who helped me get good.
All were giving back to thesport, and so that was innately
inherent in like, if you'regoing to help me, I want to play
it forward.

Tom Butler (13:39):
I love it.

Gina Kavesh (13:40):
Yeah.

Tom Butler (13:40):
And so you found a team.
And it seems like that's apretty instrumental step, yeah,
and so so you found a team andit seems like that's a pretty
instrumental step.

Gina Kavesh (13:47):
Yeah, you know, whether you want to call it a
team, a community, a group ofpeople that is supportive, a
group of people that helpnurture you, that can pick you
up when you don't have a greatday, show you the tricks,
because there's no manual, right?
I mean there is a quote,unquote, a rule book, but that
doesn't tell you how to ride abike and doesn't tell you some
of the etiquette.

(14:07):
And so, yeah, finding a groupof people and my first group was
a cascade group who taught mesome of those and I mean, I know
you've been doing this a bitthe name Jerry Baker may have
popped up Jerry Baker, thevelodrome.
Yeah, jerry Baker's brother,tom, the Baker brothers were one
of the first writers in thearea back in the sixties and

(14:27):
seventies, um, and Tom taught mehow to paceline, how to
understand what bike racing was,and those were the people I
started riding with in a cascadething.
And then, you know, you justprogress.

Tom Butler (14:39):
How would you describe like the the time when
you started racing, as far asembracing women in competitive
endeavors, athletic endeavors?

Gina Kavesh (14:53):
Well, I started racing in 93, 94, 92, 93.
Cycling's always been inclusiveof women.
You weren't ever felt likesecond class but there just
weren't enough women out there.
Of women, you weren't ever feltlike second class but there
just weren't enough women outthere.
And so people who are puttingon events, you know if you're
going to only have 15 women showup, there's one race, right.

(15:16):
So it was hard because therewasn't enough.
There wasn't enough diversityin the skillset, so that when I
started showing up I was racingagainst people who were racing
at a national level.
So if you're a beginner andyou're racing against that
caliber rider, you don't do sowell.
You have to be really, reallymentally okay with having your
butt handed to you weekend afterweekend Over the years.
I mean, we had the Lance influx, like what Lance did to the

(15:40):
landscape, and then we also hadsome people.
The Seattle community startedto grow.
The bike racing thing reallystarted to grow again because of
the Lance effect and we at acertain time we had women's
fields that actually sold out.
Like a max women's field for abeginner was 50 women and we had
to have like an event had twobecause there were 75 women

(16:01):
racing and at my categoriesyou'd suddenly have 50 or 60
women.
So you know, went way up.
Unfortunately it's kind of goneback down in the competitive
world, in the non-competitiveand I, or in just the cycling
general, I think it's been 50,50.
I think the statistics show 50%of people who ride a bike are

(16:21):
identified as female or howeveryou want to define that.
It's just a different model onon how you see that person and
whether they feel ready or wantto go do these other to do these
structured events and how dothey and do they have a
community to do that?
And so, like a bike team or abike club, it's great, but you

(16:45):
still want to find people thatare supportive of you and if
it's all guys, sometimes guys goto guys work differently than
women do work I mean that's justthe nature of it and so you
know it's really creating thatsense that people feel like they
get there and that they are notgoing to be dropped, they're
not going to be lost.

(17:07):
Women I think inherently andmaybe this is my bias, just from
my time working with women onthe bikes, getting them involved
there's a little bit more.
I don't think it's fear, butit's more.
I want to know what I'm doingbefore I do it right, versus I'm
just going to jump in and gofor it.
Now I did the, I just jumped inand went for it.

(17:27):
But there's a lot of women whoare like, ah well, you know, if
I'm going to go do it, whathappens if I have a flat?
What happens if I have amechanical?
Am I going to be safe?
I don't know where I'm going,how you know all these things.
So it's like I want a littlebit more structure before I get
out there.
And if I'm going to go withpeople to something, I want to

(17:47):
know they're going to ride withme, but I don't want to hold
them up.
I don't want to be so slow thatthey're all frustrated.

Tom Butler (17:57):
So you're constantly juggling that.
Now, when you're competing,it's something that takes
discipline, no matter whatyou're competing in, and I'm
wondering if you know how youlook back and think about that.
Did that dedication to cyclingcompetition, did that influence
other areas of your life?

Gina Kavesh (18:16):
Oh, for sure, For sure I look at.
Cycling has kind of helped meevolve as a person as well as a
manager, and it also was a goodoutlet for competitiveness in a
positive way.
I always say you always want todeal with me after I've had a
bike ride than on a day whereI'm supposed to, or like, if I
haven't had a couple bike ridesI'm not as good of a manager

(18:39):
Gotcha.
A little fatigue's a littlegood.

Tom Butler (18:41):
Get some of that energy out, yeah.

Gina Kavesh (18:45):
But it made me appreciate that.
You know, I think competitivesport or sport in general just
brings something to everybody'slife.
I'm a huge advocate, I don'tcare what the sport is.
I think having sport, you learnteamwork, you learn your own
boundaries, you learn, you pushthrough certain things that you

(19:07):
never thought you would, butbecause your team's relying on
you, you may.
Um, you learn how to deal withfailure.
You learn how to deal withsuccess.
You learn how to deal with theunanticipated.
I mean, I just think it's sucha important thing and I didn't
do a lot of sports as a child.
Um, I didn't really like.
Cycling is really the onlysport I've ever done with any

(19:29):
ability and any competition perse, and finding that in my mid
twenties, late twenties, waslike this whole new thing.
And then when you're in, like Isaid, if you're involved with
with a team or a club or anonprofit like cascade, we're
not all or a club or a nonprofitlike Cascade, we're not all.
None of us are paid.
So how do you, how can you, howcan you help mold something or

(19:49):
move something when your onlyleverage is?
I think this will work.
Let's try it and respect eachother when it doesn't work.
When you were growing up do youthink it was looked at
differently as far as being agirl and competing?
Oh for sure, for sure.
I mean, I was in high school.
I was in elementary, middleschool, like when Title IX

(20:10):
passed, what was that?
70-something?
So I was in school, high school, we had girls sports, but you
didn't get scholarships, and soI would say that I'm kind of on
the beginning of the edge ofwhat now is so common for girls
or women, like women when theyare in high school, or girls are

(20:32):
in high school or whatever.
Competition and sport that'spart of who they are Like.
For me to find this gal who gotme into bike racing, she had
been in sports her entire life.
She was, she was, she's five,seven years older than I am, and
that was unusual, right, and ifyou just go back to my, like my

(20:54):
mom's generation, sport wasn'tpart of the females vocabulary,
I mean for numerous reasons.
I mean, my mom and dad stillwere my mom's past.
My dad still gets mad at me.
He's like you only have so manyheartbeats and you waste them
on the bike.
But I mean, you know, and theother thing I say is that I'm

(21:15):
I'm a little ahead of the curve,is so?
I've been doing this endurancesport for 35 years at varying
levels.
A couple of years ago I had thegreat pleasure of finding out
being diagnosed with AFib Verycommon in endurance sports in
men, very, very common.
Because for men who have beencompeting for 30 plus years,
left atrium explodes, we getless elastic and the heart's

(21:36):
like I can't control thisanymore.
I go into the cardiologist.
They're like, yeah, we'restarting to see some women, but
it's still a small percent.
I'm like it's coming.

Tom Butler (21:47):
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?

Gina Kavesh (21:48):
Yeah, so you know, um, you know all got fixed and
whatever, and it's amazing whatsurgery can do.
But it was just interesting,for when, talking to the
cardiologist, they're like, yeah, you have the classic left
atrium that has been expandedover years from all your
exercise.
You're doing all the rightthings.
It's just your, your nodes,your sinus nodes can't keep up

(22:08):
with it because you're lesselastic.
They're like we see this prettycommon in men.
I mean you read about it andcomes air quotes.
I mean it's not everybody'sgetting it, and you know he's
like we're just starting to seesome women.
He goes.
But you know you've been doingit so long, it's not surprising
and we expect you know again,there are women now racing,
there are people racing orpeople who ride a bike that I
knew when they were 12 andthey're now in their twenties

(22:30):
and thirties.
So you know the percentage sayseventually women and men will
probably have some equalequalness in some of these other
things that happen when you'redoing an endurance sport for
forever.

Tom Butler (22:40):
Right.
Have you by any chance watchedthe documentary uphill climb?
It's talking about the firstrecognized tour de France for
women.

Gina Kavesh (22:50):
I haven't seen that one.
I saw one, a documentary aboutsharing the road.
That was a few years ago.

Tom Butler (22:56):
Okay, I just find it a fascinating story, you know,
like, how different it was forthese women who basically had to
make their way, you know,rather than having these really
organized cycling teams, andit's just a, I think it's just a
great look at a group of peoplethat want to do something and

(23:17):
are going to make it happen.
And it was interesting becausethen, after that first one,
there might've been two of them,I can't remember, but yeah,
there were like a handful, andthen it stopped for a lot of
years.
Yeah, yeah.

Gina Kavesh (23:27):
I mean, you know women's sports, women can't do
the same distance, women can'tdo this, women can't do that,
and you know.
And again there are differences.
I have to say the Tour deFrance is cray-cray for what
they have the men do, butwomen's sports, across all
sports, the competition may lookdifferent but it's still really
good competition.

(23:47):
I mean, I've loved WNBA andwomen's basketball for a long
time, more than men, becauseit's not, it has to be a team
sport.
Yeah, you don't have theshowboating.

Tom Butler (23:57):
Yeah Well, shout out to the storm.

Gina Kavesh (23:59):
Yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure.
Um, and you know women's bikeracing because they're usually
shorter races, can be reallyexciting because there's more
tactics and they're going torace from the gun.
I mean, if you watch a tour defrance stage, you're like I'll
come into the final hour becauseit's just a joke.
Most of the rest of I shouldn'tsay a joke, but nothing

(24:19):
interesting is happening.
And then when they shorten someof those you know in the tour
de france men's, they shortensome of those you know on the
Tour de France men's, they havesome of those shorter stages.
Now that's exciting racing andfor the American population,
sport needs to be exciting.
Watching people pedal along ina big pack with nothing
happening for hours is boring.
Seeing attacks or seeingsomething dynamic happen, it's

(24:40):
exciting.

Tom Butler (24:42):
Well, you bring up exciting and I I'd be interested
if you have some thoughts onsomething that I found to be
incredibly exciting and that wasthe women's Olympic road race.
I'm wondering if you couldbreak that down a little bit.
Kristen Faulkner winning that Imean, that's just like a

(25:03):
classic for all times as far asI'm concerned.
Can you break that down alittle bit?

Gina Kavesh (25:09):
Well, I mean, I mean the race itself had been
good and I have to admit that Iwas kind of tuning in, tuning
out, but that final 10kilometers was amazing.
Or 15 kilometers, you know,it's a pretty.
I should say it's a.
It's a classic tactic, but youhave to be really strong and and
the thing about bike racing,particularly the way that
Kristen won you have to bewilling to lose, because when

(25:29):
she made that counterattack Imean when they were chasing I'm
like, damn, if they catch, who'sgoing to go?
Like, does somebody have thelegs to throw it to the wind and
go for it?
And if they do, do they havethe power to hold Right?
yeah bless her.
I mean, that was textbook.
Like you kept, like you've beenchasing, you catch that group

(25:50):
and you go and you hope theperson that's been in the front
doesn't have the legs and theperson you've been with doesn't
have the legs, and then they allthe three of them looked at
each other like you, you, you,you, I mean, and voila, she's
off I mean there's some elementsthere where, like she has to go
for it, right, I mean she hasto say she has to make that

(26:11):
decision, and then there's nogoing back once she decides to
make that decision.

Tom Butler (26:17):
And then there, it seems like, you know, there's
this element where the peoplethat are with her have a moment
of questioning whether or notthey're going to follow her.
And then you know and kind ofokay, is this it or isn't it it?
You know, do we not need tochase her down, or whatever that
?

Gina Kavesh (26:37):
gets exploited.
Yeah, I mean so again forKristen to make that move.
Like I said, she may, and Idon't know whether she thought
about.
You know again, sometimes whenyou're doing that, having done a
race, where that's like thetactic, having done that myself,
it's like you know that youcould not win Right, like you're
going to go for it, you'rethrowing caution to the wind.

Tom Butler (26:59):
Right.

Gina Kavesh (27:00):
Lay it out there, and if you get caught, that was
your bullet, as they say.

Tom Butler (27:05):
Yeah, yes.

Gina Kavesh (27:06):
Right.
Conversely, when you have asmall group, that someone does
that, when you're at the end ofa race like that, you're tired
and you're like someone else,could you close that and I'll
sit on your wheel and then I'lldo you.
So you just, and it only takesa second.
I mean, you saw how fast, yes,she took off they all.
Just what seconds?

(27:27):
25 seconds, yeah, and then theycouldn't get themselves
organized and that's all sheneeded as well.
She's strong.
I mean, she was on fire right.

Tom Butler (27:37):
It was interesting for me because, you know, I'd
seen chloe digert crash in thetime trial, you know, and I was
like, oh, you know, that justhurt.
And then when she crashed againin the road race, it's just
like a gut punch, you know, it'slike, oh, you know.
And then to watch the race inthat way, you know, I think all

(27:59):
that kind of disappointment,just like, um, just watching
that happen and you're just likego, go, go, go, go, go, you
know, and, uh, you know, andbeat some fantastic people and
it's just, it's an awesome story.

Gina Kavesh (28:14):
You know and that's the other thing about bike
racing I mean you have yourfavorites.
I mean you know we can think ofthe names in the men's sport
and even in the women's sportthat you have favorites, but on
any given day it can be anygiven person's go Right.

Tom Butler (28:28):
And that's I mean.

Gina Kavesh (28:29):
So you asked me about bike racing and stuff.
I said I'm decent, I I had somegreat wins and a lot of times I
was.
I never was lining up to win.
I was there to do what I neededto do to try to get someone
else to win.
But on the right day, and whenyou do a bike race, even though
you go in with strategy, you goin with team tactics Once you

(28:49):
start rolling, all bets are offbecause everybody comes in with
their own thing.
And then you have some wildcard and on any given day
somebody can pull it off andsomeone's willing to blow for it
, right.

Tom Butler (29:04):
Right.

Gina Kavesh (29:05):
You know, that's when I go back and say what's so
amazing about sport is thingsthat you don't think you have in
your body, that you pull out.
I mean, I can think of someevents where I went for it and I
didn't expect it to stick and Imay still not have won, but but
I still ended in the top threebecause the two people who
caught me were able to drop meat the final point.
But I'm like I've just been onmy own for 50 miles, right, I

(29:28):
didn't expect that to happen.

Tom Butler (29:30):
Well, I'm looking forward to seeing more in in
that realm and you, I think, dosome some coaching, is that
right?

Gina Kavesh (29:41):
I've done informal coaching.
I am not.
I am not a formal coach.
I have done.
I would say my claim to fame isI've done a lot of clinics
focused on women.
Myself and three other galsfrom up here for five years went
down to the Bay Area not theBay Area to Redlands, california
, and did a women's only clinicwith some gals down there.
And then I've done some clinicsaround town.

(30:04):
I love helping someone learnhow to ride a bike.

Tom Butler (30:08):
Tell me more about that.

Gina Kavesh (30:16):
What's rewarding about that for you?
Again, it's more like passingalong knowledge and helping
someone with the little thingthat just makes it a better
experience, because there's justso much to bike riding that
there's just no way tounderstand.
I mean, you know, someone buysa bike.
They may know how to shift.
They may not understand howgears work.
I mean, you know, someone buysa bike that they may know how to
shift.
They may not understand howgears work.
They may.
You know, it took me a whilebefore before someone explained
gear inches.
I was like gear inches, whatthe heck?

(30:36):
And I'm like, oh, now Iunderstand.
That's how the gears feel,harder or stronger.
There's an actual mathematicalthing behind it.
I mean, that's for my brain.
But I needed someone to tell me, like, if I'm going to go
uphill, don't be in that bigring.
I also need someone to tell medon't wear underwear with my
chamois, you know.
And so it's those little thingsand it's so rewarding and, like

(30:59):
I said it also, when you cangive someone that skill, you
teach someone to fish right.
When we did these clinics inCalifornia, we always spent a
little bit of time on like, howto change a flat tire and you
know Cascade does these classesthat are amazing, because that's
something that people are.
They're like well, what happensif I flat?
And I'm like well, you learnhow to change a flat tire and

(31:20):
it's easier to do it whileyou're on the side of the
standing here when you don'tneed to, then when you have to
and you know, women like I said,women particularly, I mean I
talked to women they're like oh,I can't go right, I'd like to
ride more, but my husband'sworking or you know, our hours
don't line up and we can onlyride together.
And I'm like why is that?
Well, what would I do if I flatit?
I'm like you could learn to fixit right well, how do I take my

(31:42):
wheel off?
I'm like, well, let's start that.
Let's start with how to takeyour rear wheel on and off.
People seem to do the frontwheel Okay, the rear wheel
scares them.

Tom Butler (31:54):
Yeah, I get that.

Gina Kavesh (31:56):
Yeah, so it's just rewarding because you see them.
you see folks blossom whenyou've done that, or you see
them downstream, or you know, ifwe had a clinic, we saw where
they started to where they ended.
I mean, these clinics we woulddo like the beginner group
literally was how to clip in andhow to clip out and not fall
over.
By the end of two days theywere doing that and they were

(32:16):
doing a little baseline and theyactually got on the road.
The advanced writers were doingfancier stuff and then you know
, just over time it's just like,if you can give that in a way
that isn't threatening, I justfind it rewarding because people
did that for me.

Tom Butler (32:33):
I'm thinking that you must have last or whatever.
There's just that element ofcompletion of that, I think, has
such a big impact on us, youknow, on our brains, you know

(32:58):
like I can do something and tojust to have that kind of moment
where that sinks in that I justfinished that race, that that's
got to be really fun to see.

Gina Kavesh (33:08):
I agree.
And I think the other thing youknow and this goes back to what
you've learned and how itaffects your life I think every
time you finish an event or asporting competition again
regardless of where you place iswhat did you learn, Right?
I mean for when I was racingregularly, when we'd finish my
first, my first questions tomyself was like what did I learn

(33:31):
?
Because I learned something inevery race.
And then when we were talkingon our drive home, I'd ask you
know, like what did you learntoday?
And sometimes it was mundane,like I do not like that flavor
of blocks or whatever, whatever,but inevitably you'd be like oh
, I, you know, I want, you knowI learned never underestimate

(33:51):
the book.
Like the book and the cover.
You can have somebody.
You're like oh, that person canfly up a hill Cause they're so
little and that person's biggerand they're not going to fly up
a hill and then have my buttcrushed by that bigger person
going up the hill.
You know, I'm like don't, don'tassume.

Tom Butler (34:04):
And I'm like don't assume, I want to turn to your
leadership role at CascadeBicycle Club.
Okay, you're co-president ofthe board, and how would you say
that an organization likeCascade is vital for the cycling
community here in the PacificNorthwest?
What makes it vital, I guess?

Gina Kavesh (34:26):
Wow community here in the Pacific Northwest.
What makes it vital?
I guess Wow.
What makes it vital is it'sbeen here for as long as it's
been.
It has been instrumental inmaking Seattle one of the best
places in the country to rideyour bike.
It is recognized across thecountry as a groundbreaking
organization and, knowing someof of the history and it started

(34:49):
as all volunteers and that thefree group rides and, like I
said, I started with the freegroup rides.
But there's so much work thecascade does for the
infrastructure and the safetyand bringing better cycling,
cycling, rolling pedestrianinfrastructure to us that we
just don't see that is just isso critical because there are

(35:13):
many places that don't have thatsort of emphasis and they
struggle.
I've been in Colorado andthere's places Colorado Springs,
olympic headquarters, suckplace to ride a road bike,
terrifying One of the mostamount of deaths and they don't
have an organization like that.
Somebody I know from timeinvolved at the national level

(35:34):
of cycling is in Park City, utah, and they're trying to get
something together.
But you know it's really hardto get it off the ground and
Cascade, when it got created,was a unique time in Seattle.
Created was a unique time inSeattle and the fact that it
still exists and has just gottenstronger and stronger and it's
part of who we are cannot beunderstated.
How critical that is.

(35:54):
And anybody who rides a bike inSeattle I don't care how or why
or where you're riding a bike.
As I was saying the other dayin a discussion, I'm like we
talk about bike community andall of us have a subset of
community.
Like I'm one of those people inLycra and you may think that
I'm a snob and then I go bysomeone who's on an e-bike
running their errands andthey're in a community that they

(36:16):
may look at me like I'm notpart of their community.
But we're all on bike, we allneed that infrastructure and
without Cascade we don't have it.
To me it's just so critical andwe're so fortunate to have it.
To me it's just so critical andwe're so fortunate to have it.
I mean, I know you're a newerbike rider, ish.
But when I started riding backin Seattle, like on the south
end of the lake, you go throughthe slough right and then you

(36:37):
kind of go down and around andup to the bridge.
You used to get to Bellevue Wayand have to cross four lanes of
traffic Now granted in the 90s,bellevue Way was a little bit,
a little less chaotic, but itwas literally like you're
looking, you're looking, you'relooking and go.
So it's that sort of thing thatwe don't, that people don't

(36:59):
recognize how important, howlucky we are we have that.

Tom Butler (37:03):
You know a lot of people listening to this won't
have a Cascade near them.
You know a smaller club.
I'm wondering if CascadeBicycle Club kind of sees a role
for helping other clubs kind oflearn how to develop across the

(37:25):
nation.
Other clubs can learn how todevelop across the nation.
Is that something that you guysthink about, kind of you know,
having the resources that youhave and being around as long as
you have, are you kind ofthinking about that role?

Gina Kavesh (37:37):
Not necessarily at a national level, because
there's League of AmericanCyclists, so that's more of a
national Cascade right now isjust focused on how do we help
support not just the Puget Soundarea, but how we do this across
the state.
One of the things that we hearin highways, if you would, that

(38:09):
connect communities so peoplecan do things in another way
other than getting in their car,and that's really where the
work has been is how do wesupport what's happening in
Spokane, in Yakima, in Wenatchee, in other smaller communities
that have the need but theydon't have the resources?
And then you know, at anational level we certainly work

(38:31):
with League of AmericanCyclists.

Tom Butler (38:33):
Well, I think that you know, one of the things you
guys model very well, no matterwhat size of club you're in, is
the element of collaboration,and I'm wondering if you could
talk a bit about the value thatmakes collaboration important.

Gina Kavesh (38:51):
Well, I think it goes again.
It goes back to like you know,okay, cascade is the big club in
the area or is the big cyclingorganization, cascade Washington
Bikes is the big organizationin the area.
But just because we have moreresources or a bigger
organization doesn't say we knowwhat your community needs.
So you'd be foolish to go inwith a great big, you know

(39:14):
hammer and say this is the wayit's going to be.
It's like we need to understandyour community and I would say
Cascade's gotten better withthat collaboration over the last
five, six years than previous.
I'd say.
In some previous times Cascadewould come in with a great big
stick and try to dictate.

(39:35):
Obviously that doesn't alwayswork very well and doesn't help
the community and I would give alot of credit.
Now, where we're at is Lee.
Lee Lambert's doing a terrificjob and he is about
collaboration and he sees, heunderstands that and the staff
understands that we can do somuch but we really need to let

(39:55):
people on the ground help themdo what they know is best for
their community.
I mean, that's a lot of evenyou know government and a lot of
things is like let's give thelocal community the resources so
they can bring in what needs tohappen.

Tom Butler (40:11):
Yeah, and I've seen that in action, you know, like
with Second Cycle in Tacoma, youknow, and collaborating with
them, and I think that'swonderful.
And again, I think it's one ofthose things that if you're a
smaller club, then you knowcollaborating gives you access
to more resources and peopleworking together can be more

(40:34):
effective than you know peopleworking separately.

Gina Kavesh (40:37):
Oh, for sure, For sure, and again it's a big state
.

Tom Butler (40:40):
Yeah, and a pretty diverse state.

Gina Kavesh (40:43):
Yes.

Tom Butler (40:43):
And maybe every state has that, but you know
it's a pretty diverse state.
Now, cascade bicycle club isintroducing the rebel revolution
ride in june and I'd like youto talk about that.
What was the driving forcebehind this event?

Gina Kavesh (41:01):
well, lee and the team at cascade have been
talking about it for a littlebit.
There is a there was a gapcreated in events.
Um, back in the, the wave ridewas an all women's ride.
Um, that the last year was 2018was really successful.
Um, it was from.
It was a non-profit called thewave that was putting on this
event and it was a women's onlyride and I think the peak

(41:25):
attendance was 1,200 women andthat ended in, like I said, 2018
, 2019.
And Lee and the team at Cascadehave been looking and saying we
feel like there's a gap in themarket.
And, again, as we've had anearlier conversation, what's it
take to get women to events?
And in this case, this event iswomen and non-binary.

(41:46):
Like, how do you make awelcoming space for people who
want to do some events butthey're intimidated and I may be
putting people, you know, wordsin mouths.
There's some people just don'teven know these things exist,
but a woman only thing wassomething that's been on their
on their on mind, and so thiswas the year that was like let's

(42:08):
do it, let's just, you know,let's.
Our expectations are not a hugenumber.
It's not going to be 1200 women.
Be amazing, but it's not gonnabe 1200 women, um, and let's
start small.
So it's.
You know two, two uh routes Oneis 26 miles, 27 miles around
Lake Sammamish, the other islike 13 miles, and let's start

(42:31):
to build that community againand bring that element in,
because when you get someone whodoes an event, that's the
beginning of an event career,hopefully that they start doing
other events.
But they also feel better abouta bike.

Tom Butler (42:47):
You know, I think there's a weird time right now,
for me at least.
I'm sorry if you don't agreewith this position anybody out
there but you know it is a timewhere there's like pressure to
not be focused on diversity, notto be focused on equity or
inclusion, which is really weirdto me.
But you know, was that on yourmind as you were talking about

(43:10):
doing this ride at all?
Like this is Introducingsomething that's focused on
including People At a time whereinclusion Is like a bad word.

Gina Kavesh (43:24):
Well, the interesting thing is you can Is
this conversation was happeningprior to some of the if you
would, the DEI initiatives beingthrown out the window.
Cascade is an inclusiveorganization and they look at
their numbers at events, and theevent that comes closest to a

(43:45):
50-50 ratio with enough women isthe wine ride, which says
something we like to drink, butmost of their rides are 20 to
25% female at best, and so oneof the questions is like who are
we missing and how do we marketto them and how do we get

(44:06):
people out there?
I mean, there's some free ridesthat have great women
participation, but they don'twant to do an organized ride and
, again, not everyone's going todo an organized ride.
And so the discussion was morelike how do we open up space to
try to get people into theecosystem of doing events and
the ecosystem of Cascade?
Right, so Cascade has freerides, they have paid events,

(44:27):
and then you just have theecosystem of Cascade, right, so
Cascade has free rides, theyhave paid events, and then you
just have the ecosystem ofCascade and Washington Bikes,
which is supporting cycling as acommunity thing, and events and
free rides are kind of you know, that's the feeder into the
community of what Cascade is,and so if we don't have women
showing up, we're missing people.

(44:47):
And so this was is reallyintended on.
Like, how do we, how do wecreate something that we can
invite those people in that'sgoing to feel safer or more
comfortable.
Now to your point, and I'mgoing to lean right into it
because I I was involved withthe way ride.
There is we will get pushback.
Or some people are going to say, well, wait a second, you're

(45:09):
calling for inclusion but you'reexcluding men, right?
I mean, that's.
That's kind of the weird thing.
Like you have a woman onlyevent, whatever it is, and
someone, you get someone pushingback saying, well, that's
exclusionary.
It's like, okay, fair, it it?
What we are saying is we areasking men not are not invited
to ride the ride, but we wantmen involved in the ride to be

(45:33):
an ally to be a volunteer to beinvolved.
Now, way back at the beginningof this, we talked about how I
got, and so one of my firstevents I ever did was in the Bay
area Um, right after I got mynew bike, after my wine ride
what did you get, by the way?
What did I buy?
I bought a Bridgestone touringbike.
Okay, I had that for four yearsI loved that bike.

(45:55):
So the first event I metsomebody who rode and she got me
to do my first metric centurycalled the Cinderella Classic,
which is in the Bay Area.
It's still going on, women only, okay, and all supported by men
and it was a great.
I mean, that was my first paidexperience Like this is great.

(46:16):
And so and there are some otherwomen only events have been
going on.
There's little red that happensin Utah and you know it's like
let's just do it.
And again, men are certainlyinvited.

Tom Butler (46:29):
We just, at this particular event, we ask you not
to ride, we ask you to help,and so and what a fantastic way
to show support, to show up andhelp to show up and serve and be
there.
I think that's great.
It is an interesting thing.
I find it, you know thing.

(47:00):
I find it you know as a man, tosay, wow, this is unfair, that
I can't participate in this ride.
It seems silly to me, but Iknow that you know.
It feels to me like no onewould seriously say that.
But I think that you know, goahead.

Gina Kavesh (47:11):
Well, I'm going to say so, people will say it.
I think one of them the bestexample I have.
When we were doing the waveride and my second year as the
executive director, I got anemail from some lady, from a
lady who had done the ride, andwe had ambassadors out on the
ride to help with mechanicalstuff.

(47:33):
Those were men.
So there were a half dozen guysout there helping with
mechanical stuff and two peopleI had recruited great guys that
I ride with were out there andthis lady wrote me a note.
She goes I don't know where youfound this guy and this guy.
What an antithesis of every guyI've ever ridden with.
They were not assholes, theywere great.
They helped me with my flat,they got me on the road.

(47:54):
Then they came and found meagain to make sure I was okay.
I really appreciate it.
It makes a whole newperspective of what I think of
men on the road and I was likewow.

Tom Butler (48:04):
Yeah, that is a wow.
I mean like she's like oh,people like this exist.

Gina Kavesh (48:10):
So you don't know what her experience was before?
Yeah, but exist.
So you don't know what herexperience was before?
Yeah, um, but yeah.
So I was like, okay, that's youknow.
So, unfortunately, yeah,there's some.
I mean, you know, as I I makethe joke regularly because you
know, you're a bike rider andsomeone's like oh, you bike
riders are always in the way andyou're being you're being an
asshole on a bike.
I'm like you can be an assholeon a bike or you can be an

(48:30):
asshole in a car, you're just anasshole.

Tom Butler (48:33):
Yeah, yeah, well, said yeah.
So you know, I think that forme, as a man, there's things
that I don't know.
You know, sometimes, that I'mdoing.
You know maybe the way that Itake up space or the way that I
look at someone who's struggling, or whatever.

(48:54):
You know, maybe the way that Itake up space or the way that I
look at someone who's struggling, or whatever.
You know, I think there there'sjust some things that maybe I'm
just not aware of, that I needto be more aware of.

Gina Kavesh (49:05):
I think all of us have that blind spot, you know,
and cycling is a cycling is ahard sport and everybody learns
it and gains it a differentspace and everybody gets
something different out of it.
And when you're starting in thesport, you don't know what you
don't know and you just aretrying to do whatever you can,
to hang on or to ride and have agood time.

(49:26):
And you know, I can think of it.
It happens regularly.
I'll be riding, doing intervalsor something, and someone jumps
on my wheel typically a guy andthen has to be there while I'm
doing my interval and then, asI'm sitting up, they go blowing
by and they do the head shakeand you know, like, is she

(49:47):
chasing me?
Is she chasing me?
I'm like, I just finished aninterval, you douche.
I'm now resting and I'm goingto turn around and go do another
one.
But you're a douchebag, you know, and I've had it with both
genders, or all genders.
Where you're.
You know, and I know I've doneit too Like you're writing, I'm
like, oh God, I got to pass thisperson.

(50:07):
Oh, this is going to turn intothe.
I do not want to do this, Idon't want to go back and forth,
back and forth, but they'reriding a little slower than I
want to go and I'm going to passthem and I'm like this is not a
competition, I'm just going myspeed.
And if you're going to thensurge around me, great, but then
please keep going that speed,because I don't want to do this
game.

Tom Butler (50:29):
So what I would say as a guy is that if, if a woman,
you know, if you're an event oryou ride with a woman or you're
part of a club ride or whatever, and a woman says, hey, you
know, when you do this, it makesme feel uncomfortable, like
honor, that you know, don't getdefensive about it.
It might be a blind spot thatyou have and just honor it and

(50:51):
sit with it and say is somethingI can be doing, you know, just
respect that.

Gina Kavesh (50:56):
you know that feedback and also respect that
there is an innate builtdifference in our strength,
right, I mean really strongwomen are going to hang with,
really with strong men, butthey're still they're not going
to be hanging with tade mostlikely yeah, yeah and if someone
and and again, I'd say this forall genders like if you're

(51:19):
riding with people and someoneis struggling, you can, either
you can look and say are they inthe right gear?
I mean, sometimes you can lookdown, you're like you know, can
I give?
you a hint that combination'sgonna suck on this hill.
Go Go smaller.
All of us have gears.
Use them.
They're there for a reason.
You don't need to stay in one.
It's one of my favorite things.

(51:39):
I'm like you have 11 of them.
Use them.

Tom Butler (51:43):
Although I would say it as a guy.
I think it takes a relationshipfirst with women to really
start explaining everything.
I think mansplaining is like areal deal.

Gina Kavesh (51:55):
It can be.
It can be.

Tom Butler (51:58):
When you say you know.
Can I give you a suggestion?
You might want to build arelationship with someone first
before deciding that you need tochange everything about what
they're doing no-transcript down.

Gina Kavesh (52:34):
I don't want to hold you up.
I don't want to hold you up.
It's like you know.
The thing is, if I would hope,if you, if you're riding with
somebody again, whomever, andthey're a little bit slower,
you're going to take your pacedown because you don't need to,
you don't need to put them inthe in the floor, I mean, maybe
in a bike race, but just doing aride.
No, and that's what I tellpeople.
Like, if I invite someone outto go for a bike ride and

(52:56):
someone's like, oh, I'm too slow, I'm going to slow you down,
I'm like if I say let's go for abike ride.
I want to ride with you.
Nothing else matters.
If I have a workout, I'm notinviting you.
I'm like you don't want to comewith me.

Tom Butler (53:12):
Well, that's, you know, I'm sensitive to that
because I'm slow and you know.
So people do invite me to gofor rides and I'm like, okay,
you know, are you sure you wantto go that slow on your ride?
And yeah, so it is a dynamic.
But I think what you said thereis if someone is saying you
know, hey, you want to ridetogether.

(53:33):
You know, it's mostly justabout hanging out together and
the cycling is just a way to dothat.

Gina Kavesh (53:41):
It's a way to catch up, it's a way to talk.
I mean it's a very social sport.
When you're doing it in a group, you know we have to meet
people where they are.

Tom Butler (53:54):
Obviously, there'll be a section of the Cascade
website that talks about therebel ride.
Are there some key things thatyou would like people to know
who are who are maybeconsidering doing it?

Gina Kavesh (54:01):
come do it, come experience it again.
It's the beginning.
It's the beginning it willbecome.
You know, this year it's, likeI said, just two routes, um,
ultimately, I'm sure we're, youknow, we'll build upon it and
we'll get to a point similar towhere the wave was, with like
four routes, where there'll belonger routes for people who are
a little bit ready for that.
But come out and support thecommunity.

(54:22):
Come out and support the otherfemale riders, non-binary riders
.
The short route is great forsomebody, for people who are
just really starting theircycling journey or are really
unsure about what this eventthing is.
Come out, give it a try.
You know the experience aloneand being around that many
people supportive, you're goingto find a new love for the bike.

(54:44):
So yeah, I mean just registerand show up I love it it should
be good weather in june.
it should be good weather, yeah.

Tom Butler (54:51):
Yeah, we've got a good chance.

Gina Kavesh (54:54):
Yeah.

Tom Butler (54:57):
I want to talk a little bit about.
You're on the board ofdirectors, you know, and there's
an executive team and Lee isleads the executive team.
What are the differences thatyou look at as a board when
you're looking at the future ofCascade Bicycle Club versus what

(55:18):
the executive leadership does?

Gina Kavesh (55:34):
and fiduciary duty.
I mean those are all technicalterms.
Our role is to be advisors andto be a sounding board and to
support Lee and team and whatthey're seeing.
They're going to be thetactical, they're the tactical
players.
But decisions or things thatare broader on, like how are we
going to deal with, like how dowe best manage our money?
Right, lee brings it to us andhe lays out his path on what

(55:59):
he's looking at.
He and his team lay it out andthen we'll ask questions and we
have a very diverse skill set.
So somebody who has a lot offinancial background may say
well, you know, what about X, yor Z?
Or we explored Y.
If there's something that's,what about X, y or Z?
Or we explored Y?
If there's something that'smaybe a change to a policy,

(56:20):
that's something we dig into aswell.
Like we're going to make apolicy change and since we have
a broad base of perspective onthe board, including ride
leaders, people who've doneevents, people who have great
financial or marketing orinteresting backgrounds, we can
kind of look at it and say, okay, what's the membership going to
think about this, how this isgoing to be responding to, or
where are the blind spots thatmaybe the organization isn't

(56:42):
seeing.
That's really our role issaying you know, let's just have
a different, a broader view,because when you're in the day
in and day out nuts and bolts ofbike advocacy and events and
getting kids on bikes and theseclasses and all this other stuff
, you may not see that blindspot.
I mean going back to the ride,when Lee brought it up I was

(57:07):
like, hey, lee, you know I loveit.
Obviously I was involved withit.
I said but you know the wholething about men.
I said just be prepared,there's gonna be a little bit of
pushback.
He's like, really I'm like yeah,you know, so it's that sort of
thing.
So it's really more, it's alittle higher level.

Tom Butler (57:28):
I'm wondering, from that seed of kind of a higher
level picture, how optimisticare you for cycling in general,
the future of cycling, thefuture of safe cycling paths and
things like that?
What are your thoughts aboutthe future as you, you know?

(57:50):
Again, look at it from abroader vision.

Gina Kavesh (57:52):
I'm optimistic.
The future, as you, you know.
Again, look at it from abroader vision.
I'm optimistic.
I'm optimistic, particularly inWashington state, that we will
see more infrastructure and wewill see better connections.
It's a great way to move around, but it also brings the safer
we can make it or the way we canmake these connections.
It also helps bring up some ofthe pieces that we have where

(58:14):
we've screwed up in equity.
Right, I mean, bringing saferroutes for the person who has to
ride a bike to get to work iscritical.
We need to do that.
Making it safer for people toget on and off transit with a
bike because a bike is a lowcost, it can be, I should say,

(58:34):
way to travel, and so we need tolook at how do we improve the
inner, the guts?
How do we make it safer?
How do we make it so it's moreapproachable Seattle?
There's going to be things wecan't get rid of.
We can't get rid of hills.
I think the e-bike has been asmuch as.
I'm not going to ride an e-bikeanytime soon, although I may
get old enough I will.

(58:55):
I think an e-bike is an amazingthing, particularly for urban
living, like hopping on a bikerunning the grocery store.
Boom, boom, boom, terrific.
E-bikes are that final milee-bikes for getting to work,
like I think it's a game changer, and that's why I get really
optimistic, because people areseeing it's a game changer and
people are going to them andusing them for sport, for

(59:19):
commute, for work, for all thesepurposes.
And the more people who ridebikes, the more we're going to
see infrastructure following,because there are people out
there that don't want it and so,yeah, so I'm hopeful.
It's just it's hard though,right, I mean, people are like
roads are a mess.
Roads need work, we have bridgesthat are failing, I mean, and

(59:40):
there's only so much money it'shard to navigate.
But you know, at the same time,all these, all this programming
we're doing in schools and allthese bikes that are doing this
great work through the let'sMove program from the state,
we're putting a lot of people onbikes.
And the more people on bikes Iwould say I'd much rather have,
I want as many people to ride abike and experience the bike

(01:00:04):
from the road or from the dirt,like I do, and I recognize that
I mean I'm a driver, because themoment you start to ride a bike
, you become a better driver,being more aware of the bike,
and you're probably a little bitmore in tune with why some of
this infrastructure work that wewant to see happen, why some of
the South Seattle work needs tohappen, why, you know, some of

(01:00:27):
these connections from Burienand Rainier Valley need to come
together and Rainier Valley needto come together so we all have
a safe way to move around.
Maybe take a car or two off theroad and support the rising of
people being able to get towhere they need to do, to do
their job, to do their groceryshopping or just to be.
And for kids to move around Imean kids on bikes is a great

(01:00:48):
thing.

Tom Butler (01:00:49):
A lot of times when I ask people because I ask
almost everybody that comes onyou know what are your first
memories of the bike and youknow kids being able to
experience like the bike as atool for freedom, you know, I, I
think it's, I think that'ssuper valuable.

Gina Kavesh (01:01:06):
It is.
And you know when, again, whenour age growing up, it once I
got, once I was able to ride abike, my parents would let me.
I was in Newport Hills, I couldride to the grocery store.
I'd put my kickstand down, I'dgo to the grocery store, do my
thing and ride home and I'd rideto my friend's house.
It was how I moved in my mysphere, right In the five miles
around my house, without myparents having to take me

(01:01:26):
everywhere.
Right now, there's a lot ofplaces in this city, in our
communities, in this state,where a parent's not going to
let their kid ride even down theblock because they're worried
about it.

Tom Butler (01:01:41):
I mean and that's not just I mean that's like okay
, we got to do better likeMontreal or Paris and you know
like what are the things thathappened to create what seems
like, in Paris, a prettydramatic shift to active

(01:02:01):
transportation.

Gina Kavesh (01:02:03):
I think it is worth exploring to understand what
that cultural change was.
I mean, you mentioned Paris.
What's interesting is, lastspring I went to New York for
the New York Grand Fondo and theday before three people one
person I met there and the twopeople that were working the
event with me they took us for aride through New York into

(01:02:23):
Central Park.
I felt perfectly safe riding myroad bike until I got to
Central Park, which was no carday and then was really chaotic,
okay Okay.
But riding through Manhattan,riding through Harlem, riding
across the George Washingtonbridge, I was like this is
almost better than Seattlebecause it was fully connected.
It had separated bike lanes andcars.

(01:02:48):
I mean, cars don't move veryfast in Manhattan anyways, but
you know it felt reallycomfortable air quotes, better
than days where I'm riding LakeWashington Boulevard and even
though bikes have the right ofway, I got cars going by me and
they're going fast, so you know.
So I think it is worthexploring and understand.

(01:03:10):
Some of it is also just.
Exploring and understand someof it is also just.
I think some of our challengehere in Washington is we've
never.
We have some urban areas, butwe have a lot of suburban areas
and because of our sprawl welose fact that the suburban and
urban have to connect.
And that's where you know, in alot of these communities Paris,

(01:03:33):
new York, toronto their urbanareas are so dense that nobody
wants to drive Right.

Tom Butler (01:03:40):
Right.

Gina Kavesh (01:03:41):
And we're not there yet, although I think we're
getting there pretty close.
I've been on I-5 lately and Idon't want to drive it.

Tom Butler (01:03:47):
Yeah, that's right, there is, it is relative right.
I mean it's like, yeah, this isslow.
Yeah, it's like, yeah, this isslow.

Gina Kavesh (01:03:53):
Yeah, so it's a cultural shift and you know, and
I'm hopeful we're going to getthere.

Tom Butler (01:04:00):
And I'm hoping that Washington can be a unique
example.
You know we don't have, youknow, like the massive you know,
of a New York city.
It's not, it's not not thatsize, but I, I, I'd love it to

(01:04:24):
think that we can be an exampleto the world of embracing
cycling you know, and embracingactive transportation.
You know which?
For me, you know, the biggestthing is that we need to find
more reasons to be active.
Oh yeah, and so you know,providing an opportunity for
people to do that.

Gina Kavesh (01:04:36):
Yeah, and I mean we have some really good guts to
our infrastructure, our bikeinfrastructure.
I mean, if we think about it,like I said, I live on the East
side.
I have two bridges I can getacross to go to Seattle and at
one point I had a project thatwas right in Pioneer Square.
That was an amazing commute,like boop, straight across

(01:04:57):
Dearborn.
There it was, you know, for awhile I was at the University of
Washington and I would.
The commute was pretty good.
So we have a lot of good piecesbut we just have so many
disjointed pieces and, like Isaid, I know it's across the
state.
Obviously we're one of thebigger urban areas, but there's
a lot of little urban areas thatcould probably use a little bit
of work too.

Tom Butler (01:05:21):
So it's just you know.
You just keep poking at it andkeep trying to change it.
What are some of your personalfitness and cycling goals that
you have?
Do you have any adventuresplanned?
What's the future like for you?

Gina Kavesh (01:05:31):
Well, I have a few adventures.
So I'm going to do the wall thecascade, walla walla tour,
which is always a fun one.
I think goes back to the winething I mentioned.
Um, I am going to do the umcascades, also introducing the
iron horse gravel ride this year.
So I'm not a dirt rider, but Igot my husband a gravel bike, so

(01:05:52):
I and a friend is one of thesponsors, so I'm going to do it.
I am actually going to miss thewomen's ride here because I'll
be in Wisconsin doing one of thecompetitions I focus on every
year.
Yeah, so that's kind of thoseare my bike adventures.
I just came back fromCalifornia riding with some
friends, the ones that I metthrough doing that clinic that I
still go down every year, andwe ride bikes for five or six

(01:06:12):
days in the sun.

Tom Butler (01:06:14):
Nice.

Gina Kavesh (01:06:14):
Yeah, so you know, I know I'm always looking.

Tom Butler (01:06:20):
Gina, thank you so much.
This was so fun and it's it'sgreat to get the view that you
have of cycling, kind of yourpersonal experience of it, and
then, as a board member, I justtaking the time to share with us
.
Thank you so much.

Gina Kavesh (01:06:36):
Thank you for making the time.
I've enjoyed it.

Tom Butler (01:06:38):
Good, good.
Well, we'll talk to you later.

Gina Kavesh (01:06:40):
Take care.

Tom Butler (01:06:41):
Bye now.
Throughout the interview Ireferred to the upcoming ride as
the Revel Ride.
However, it's actually calledthe Revel Revolution Ride.
I regret getting that wrongbecause I think Revel Revolution
is a much better representationof the energy that will be

(01:07:04):
present during the event.
I found it interesting thatGina didn't really see Cascade
Bicycle Club as having a rolenationally.
She pointed to the AmericanLeague of Bicyclists for that,
and while I believe that theleague can play a very valuable
role nationally, I also thinkCascade Bicycle Club can be a
model of what local communityengagement and local activism

(01:07:24):
can look like.
I would recommend that anybodywho wants to inspire a local
community of cyclists should goto cascadeorg, where you can
scribe and follow what they areworking on.
I'm having a tough time alreadytrying to figure out how to fit
all the biking in that I wantto do this summer.
There are so many fun things todo.
I hope you are finding allkinds of fun activities and also

(01:07:46):
some things that will challengeyou and remember, age is just a
gear change.