April 5, 2025 • 55 mins
Join host Tom Butler on this week's episode as he gets candid about the ongoing battle to revamp his eating habits – a challenge many people pursuing healthy lifestyles can relate to! Tom also shares his growing excitement for combining his interest in train travel with cycling, dreaming up future adventures that blend scenic rail journeys with exhilarating cycling explorations.
Then, Tom welcomes guest Scott Gruber, who recounts his unforgettable experience tackling the iconic Taiwan Cycling Route No. 1. Hear all about the stunning landscapes, welcoming culture, and the sheer joy of pedaling this renowned route. Scott's excellent storytelling makes it impossible to ignore the magnetic pull of this Taiwanese cycling gem, leaving you inspired to add it to your own adventure list!
Links
Great American Ride: Huffing and Puffing Team - Password -GAR2025
Signup - runsignup.com/Race/Register/RaceGroup-1742637?raceId=92970
Giant Adventure Cycling Tours - giant-bicycles.com/global/giant-adventure
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Show music is "Come On Out" by Dan Lebowitz. Find him here : lebomusic.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tom Butler (00:04):
This is the Cycling Over 60 Podcast, season 3,
episode 24, taiwan, cyclingRoute Number One, and I'm your
host, tom Butler.
The truth is that new thingsdon't come easy to me.
(00:25):
I feel like I'm always fightingto keep on track with staying
healthy.
My latest battle is with thedietary changes that I've been
trying to make for over a monthnow.
Food preparation is not myfavorite thing in the world, and
I'm finding it really difficultto get in the groove of cooking
differently.
I typically like to eat prettymuch the same thing every day,
just because it's easier thatway.
(00:45):
I'm not someone that needs alot of variety when it comes to
meals.
The simpler the better.
That is one of the things thatmakes the change that I'm trying
to make difficult.
I'm using a meal plan from acompany, and I do think they do
an excellent job putting mealstogether.
I think they have found thatmost people like variety, so
they provided a six-week mealplan that has a lot of variety.
(01:06):
For me, the variety means it isharder to shop and harder to do
meal preparation.
I've gotten in the habit ofeating two meals a day.
This meal plan is three meals aday, so that means not just
more prep time per meal, but anadditional meal every day.
I don't know why I find it sodifficult to carve out time to
prepare meals, but it takes realdiscipline for me.
(01:30):
A second problem with the mealplan is that I would need a bit
of time to get used to theflavor of the food.
I have no doubt that I wouldeventually come to enjoy the
food, but I think it would takea couple of months to retrain my
taste buds.
I've not really enjoyed themeals that I've tried so far.
Again, I think I wouldeventually welcome the new
flavors and the variety of themeals, but it would take me
putting up with less appealingmeals for a while.
(01:50):
And the final obstacle is that,because the meals are very low
in fat, I don't feel satisfiedafter eating.
Once again, I think this isjust a matter of adjustment for
my body.
Even with the challenges, Ithink I'm going to be able to
make this switch if I can getinto the habit of planning meals
out on Sunday and Wednesday.
I originally thought I could dojust Sunday, but I think I
(02:12):
really can't do more than a fewdays of planning at a time If I
can establish this process ofmeal planning for just three
weeks.
I think I will get used todoing meals differently and then
I'd be able to adjust the otheraspects of this new food.
I'd be tempted to just call itquits, but I do believe there is
a chance that eating verylow-fat meals could help create
(02:33):
more insulin sensitivity at thecellular level, and if that is
the case, for me it means it iswell worth the hassle.
Last week I mentioned that I'mlooking to take my bike on the
train and go down to Eugene,oregon, to do a ride.
A listener from Seattle sent atext saying that they find that
riding around Eugene is reallygood and they have taken the
(02:54):
train down in the past.
It was encouraging to hear thatsomebody had a good experience
with this.
In addition to hearing thislistener's perspective, amtrak
recently announced new trainsare coming to the Northwest.
Amtrak announced the new Aerotrains that are quote a modern
passenger experience end quote.
I'm really not sure what thatmeans.
Aero is spelled A-I-R-O and itsounds like Amtrak is expecting
(03:19):
that people are going to reallylike these new trains.
The Pacific Northwest is set tobe the first home for the new
trains.
They're scheduled to be here in2026.
In a blog post from June 21stlast year, the League of
American Bicyclists stated thattheir work with Amtrak yielded
an agreement from them toincrease capacity for bicycles
on the AeroTrains.
(03:39):
Now this makes me even moreinterested in taking a train
trip this year so that I cancompare the experience with the
new cars in the future.
Ultimately, I would love tofigure out some trips down the
West Coast by bike and train.
There's a route called theCoast Starlight that runs down
the Pacific Coast.
It would be really fun to jumpon that route for a few days and
(04:01):
camp and bike at a couple stops.
One option is taking the trainto Martinez, california, in
October for the Bike the Bridgesevent.
That event benefits theNorthern California Special
Olympics.
The route is only 50k but itsounds really unique.
I think combining that eventwith another stop along the way
could make for a memorable trip.
(04:22):
I want to remind people that theRails to Trails Conservancy
fundraiser, called the GreatAmerican Ride, starts this
Saturday.
It goes to June 6th.
It is not too late to sign up.
The event is very easy.
You just log the miles that younormally do into the event
website and it tracks a virtualteam along the Great American
Rail Trail.
I believe the work being doneby Rails to Trails is really
(04:44):
important.
I think they're helping toestablish active transportation
and recreational opportunitiesand I truly feel that it's worth
supporting them, and thisfundraiser seems like a really
fun way to do that.
You can find information aboutthe fundraiser by searching for
the Great American Ride.
I'll put a link in the shownotes for the team I'm going to
be on.
The team is called Huffing andPuffing.
(05:06):
Last time I placed the link Iforgot to put in the password
for the team, so I'll make sureto include that this time.
So go to the show notes andfollow the link and join me and
some others as we take thischallenge on as a team.
(05:30):
Last week we got to hear about agreat bike trip from a podcast
listener and I'm happy that weget to do the same thing this
week.
Scott Gruber joined me for boththe Cycling Over 60 Zwift
Thursday ride and also theThursday Zoom chat.
In the Zoom chat he sharedabout a ride that he did around
Taiwan and I was reallyintrigued by the adventure, so
(05:50):
he came on the podcast todiscuss it with me, and here's
the conversation Scott and I had.
I love having the Zoom chats onThursdays because it gives me a
chance to chat with people Iwouldn't otherwise get to meet,
and my guest today is one ofthose people.
Thank you, scott Gruber, forjoining me.
Scott Gruber (06:09):
Thank you for inviting me.
Tom Butler (06:11):
Yeah, great to be here.
Let's start out by having youtell me about your earliest
memories of the bicycle.
Scott Gruber (06:19):
Oh, that's great.
I grew up in Phoenix, arizona,and I had a BMX bike when I was
in elementary school and I usedto ride with my best friend at
the time, dudley Mermanish, andride to school after school,
just kind of out playing.
(06:39):
So that's definitely myearliest memory of riding a bike
.
Tom Butler (06:43):
Yeah, that's cool and that sounds really fun.
Scott Gruber (06:47):
Yeah, I don't know if you remember Webco that was
like the brand but I was soexcited with that bike, it was
fun and Phoenix was pretty goodfor riding back then, so it was
a great entry into it.
Then, when I was in college, Ihad a mountain bike and I went
(07:08):
to UC Santa Barbara and theyhave a great biking community
there and so all through campusthere's bike paths, all around,
everyone rides bikes and at UCSanta Barbara and getting to
Santa Barbara there's a greatbike path and so I wrote a lot
when I was in college.
Then I sort of stopped and gotback into it when I was during
(07:33):
the pandemic.
Okay, and so, like you, I wasriding a Trek FX.
Mine was FX4.
I think you had told me youwere on an FX3.
Tom Butler (07:42):
Yeah.
Scott Gruber (07:43):
And so I had a you know, flat bar3.
Yeah, and so I had a flat barbike, and I live in Los Angeles
now, so there's a riverside bikepath that also leads to the
ocean.
There's a beach bike path thatgoes from Santa Monica down to
Palos Verdes, so I rode that alot.
Tom Butler (08:03):
Now, right now, this time of year, when we're
starting to get just hints ofspring coming, a bike path along
the beach in California soundspretty good to me.
Scott Gruber (08:13):
Yeah, I'm pretty spoiled with it because it's a
protected bike path, althoughthere's a lot of pedestrians on
it and a lot of bicyclists.
So you know I it's a greatplace to cruise.
You know there's a few peoplethat ride real fast, but I'm not
a speed demon kind of personand the view is fantastic.
So next time you're in losangeles and you want to go for a
(08:35):
bike ride, let me know I'll.
I'll be happy to show youthat'd be awesome.
Tom Butler (08:41):
Yeah, you talked about getting away from it for a
number of years.
It sounds like.
Could you say why that was?
Have you thought about why yougot away from?
Scott Gruber (08:54):
it Didn't ride quite a bit as I fell into the
pattern in Los Angeles where itwas a lot of driving.
It was funny.
There were some times when Idid ride my bike from near
(09:15):
downtown Los Angeles there's atown called Silver Lake and I
worked at UCLA, so it takes meit's about six miles to drive
back and forth, so about an hour.
But I could ride my bike injust an hour and 10 minutes and
so I figured I'm actually justdriving six miles an hour both
(09:40):
ways, because it's about thatlong of a time and I can ride a
bike at, you know, easily at 10miles an hour.
But, um, I'm afraid of cars anddidn't, uh, feel totally
comfortable riding, so I fellout of the, the culture of
biking and but I'm really reallyglad I got back into it and I
(10:03):
finally got my first road bikeand I have a mountain bike.
So I got back into it and Ifinally got my first road bike
and I have a mountain bike.
So I've been exploring theSanta Monica Mountains as well
as some of the local hills inSanta Monica and the Palisades
and Brentwood, all along theSanta Monica Mountains leading
into Griffith Park.
Tom Butler (10:22):
So what road bike did you get?
Scott Gruber (10:24):
I got a Trek Domani.
It's the most I really like it,but it was like the least
expensive one.
It was like you know, Iupgraded the wheels and put
carbon wheels on it, so it waslike three grand plus a thousand
bucks for wheels, and so it'snot one of those like really,
(10:46):
really expensive domani's thatare like what ten, twelve right
thousand dollars.
That's way out of my budget,but it was still a significant
investment for me.
But uh, I like it.
It's.
It's uh all black and has agold letters with trek and uh
it's.
It's suited me well Cause I'mnot a racing cyclist, so it's an
(11:09):
endurance bike and so it fitsmy body type pretty well.
And throughout my whole bikinghistory it's the first time I
had a drop bar bike and I really, really like it Cause I can
shift my position on it and it'sturned out to be a real good
workhorse for me.
I put like 12, almost 15,000miles on it already.
Tom Butler (11:33):
Nice, nice.
Well, we got talking on theThursday Zoom call about a trip
that you did to Taiwan and Ijust really wanted listeners to
hear about that trip.
It's the example of likebecause of the podcast I hear of
all these great trips and it'slike man, now I have another
(11:54):
trip on my list.
But I think this is like one ofthose kinds of trips that it's
like you put it on your list andI'm wondering what first
inspired you to go to Taiwan.
Scott Gruber (12:04):
You put it on your list and I'm wondering what
first inspired you to go toTaiwan.
Well, you know, my wife, sue,is from Taiwan, so we had gone
to Taiwan right before thepandemic.
I am a web designer, so I wasinvited to do a web design
(12:26):
workshop in Cameroon in WestAfrica, over a three-month
period.
I went to Cameroon and was inLos Angeles and then was in
Taiwan right before the pandemicvisiting family there.
It reminded me how much I loveTaiwan, family there, and just,
(12:46):
uh um, it reminded me how much Ilove Taiwan.
When I was in college I lived inTaiwan for about a little less
than a year and, uh um, workthere.
I don't know if you rememberCompuServe it was kind of like a
, an internet service provider.
Back in the day I worked at acompany Fujitsu had bought it
for the Japanese market, calledit Fujitsu Serve, and I worked
(13:10):
at a company called TTN Serveand that was translating
CompuServe to the Taiwan market,and so you know, I lived there
at a time when they were justbuilding out all the subways and
, and so it was known as likethe dark age period in Chinese.
(13:30):
Everything was quite chaotic,and now, 30 years later, when I
went back, all of those subwaysare done and the infrastructure
is fantastic for biking.
So after the pandemic this wasNovember 2023, we went back for
(13:52):
a visit and I had gotten intobiking quite a bit and so I
wanted to bring my bike and ride.
And Sue's sister, tina, wholives in Taipei, told me oh, you
got to do this ride.
There's a round Taiwan tourthat everyone does and the giant
(14:13):
bicycle company sets up thetour for it.
So I looked it up and I waslike, oh my god, this is perfect
.
So I signed up and it was anine day, eight night ride
around the island, which isabout 900 kilometers, maybe five
, six hundred miles, and it uh,it's like a all-inclusive tour
(14:37):
package.
And so I, you know, brought mybike, my trek, in a bike bag
onto the plane and brought itover to taiwan and joined the
group.
Tom Butler (14:48):
Now, when you say your trek, you have two tre now,
so which one has that?
Was that before you got theDomani?
Scott Gruber (14:55):
Yeah, it was the Domani.
Tom Butler (14:57):
The Trek.
Scott Gruber (14:58):
FX I gave to my son-in-law.
Okay, it's up in San Mateo.
And so now in the family wehave a hybrid, the Trek FX4, my
road bike, which is the Domani,and I picked up a mountain bike
that I ride in the Santa MonicaHills, which is a Cervelo.
(15:19):
Okay, okay, but that's adifferent story.
So I brought the Trek Domani toTaipei.
Tom Butler (15:27):
Now.
So they said it was a tourcompany and so they had the
route all planned out, so thatwasn't something that you needed
to decide on.
Scott Gruber (15:39):
No, no, no, I hadn't realized.
But Taiwan has a great bikingculture and the tour company
that I did is.
You maybe have heard of GiantBikes, oh yeah, they're the
largest manufacturer of bicyclesin the world, yeah, and they
have a foundation in Taiwan andthey sponsor these tours and so
(16:02):
it's part of the identity ofTaiwanese to ride a bike around
the island and so it's a bigdeal.
There's a lot of differentgroups.
In my group.
We had 40 people and most ofthem were local Taiwanese.
We had a few Chinese Americans,we had a couple from Malaysia,
(16:28):
a couple from Hong Kong, butmostly it was Taiwanese and the
age groups were from like 20 to70 plus, and I was the only
non-native speaker in the group,but I had studied Chinese
hadn't used it much in a longtime, but I was able to
(16:50):
communicate and it really got meinspired to seriously study
Chinese again because I had somuch fun talking with people and
writing with them during thetrip.
Tom Butler (17:01):
Now they must have been kind of happy I don't know
what the right word is but maybeeven a bit impressed by you
being able to converse a bit inChinese.
Scott Gruber (17:12):
It was hilarious because, you know, all my
Chinese came back, and so I was,you know, I used to go to
karaoke all the time and used tosing songs in Chinese, and
those came back, and some of thepoems that I had memorized came
back, and so all the time I wassinging in Chinese, and
(17:33):
everyone in the group it was akind of one of these peak
experiences and we all werewriting together, and so all we
did all day was ride and chat,and so they welcomed me and I
was, you know, very, verygrateful with they welcomed me
and I was, you know, very, verygrateful with, you know, with
their spirit of bringing me inand sharing with me the beauty
(17:55):
of the island of Taiwan.
Tom Butler (17:57):
I had sent you a question if you had ever heard
of the film Island Etude.
It doesn't sound like you'veheard of it.
Scott Gruber (18:07):
No, I hadn't.
You know, there's a lot ofyoutube videos on biking in
taiwan.
I looked up that film and andsaw this from a while ago and
but I didn't watch it.
Could you share a little bitabout it with me?
Tom Butler (18:20):
well, my understanding is that some of
the almost rite of passage maybeof doing the trip around Taiwan
, that it was kind of spurred onby that film and so it is an
older film and it's a story of adeaf college student that
(18:43):
decides to ride around theisland.
Scott Gruber (18:46):
And I've not seen it.
That's right.
In my wheelhouse Some of myfriends that I was riding with
they told me there's, like youknow, three things that you want
to do as part of your taiwaneseidentity, and one is to ride a
bike around the island, anotheris to swim in sun moon lake and
another one is to hike up jademountain.
(19:07):
So far I've got one of thosethings done so do you have plans
to do?
the others is that like yeah, Iwrote to sun moon lake but they
have a big festival where like10 000 people swim in sun moon
lake on the same day and that'ssort of like the big event to do
(19:29):
and so that's in September andI haven't been able to do it yet
but it's on my, it's on mybucket list for sure to do and
this, this kind of like you know, the film Island of Two, to
have this journey of touring theisland as part of the identity
of Taiwanese, is so fascinatingto me because it's like I had
(19:55):
never gone bike touring beforeand there was something so
wonderful about slowing down ona bike but yet you're going fast
enough that you can go quite adistance to see the countryside.
So our routine was, you know,breakfast morning calisthenics
(20:18):
hop on our bike ride for maybe20 kilometers, stop at a temple
or a park.
So we stopped a lot, lot ofTaoist temples and Confucian
temples and have a snack.
Everyone would check their cellphones, but we would have time
(20:39):
to get some water and have somebananas and oranges and apples.
We were very well fed and sonone of us had problems with
fueling the ride.
We'd stop at a cateredrestaurant, so we had great
Chinese food for lunch.
We'd sit all together and chatand then right in the afternoon
(21:05):
with another break and meet upat the hotel where we'd have a
catered dinner and then do itagain the next day.
So it was like you know, andthe whole time we're, you know,
riding down the West coast ofTaiwan, which is very industrial
but still quite a number ofbike paths, all the way down to
(21:27):
the Southern tip and moving overto the east coast, which is
very agricultural.
So going through rice fields inthis east river, east rift
valley, it's just gorgeous.
But even in the uh city on um,in the industrial areas on the
west coast, you still have thesekind of uh layers of mountains
(21:48):
on, I guess, on the left and,and you know, on on the east.
Tom Butler (21:52):
On our east side, you know, taiwan is has the
highest number of over 10 000feet mountains, wow, of any
island in the world wow so it'slike, uh um, great for biking if
you're into riding hills right,you talked about giant, you
know, and in giant, in 1977 theceo of giant negotiated a deal
(22:20):
with schwinn and that's reallywhen they took off.
But ever since 1977 they havebeen a major manufacturer and
and really the carbon fiberbicycle available to to most
people.
That happened because of giantand so.
(22:42):
I'm wondering if, if you could,you know if you would see, like
the evidence of Taiwan beingsuch a hub for bicycle
manufacturing or not, really onthe trip that you did oh,
totally, we did.
Scott Gruber (22:56):
Um, I got sort of two anecdotes that I can share
about that one is, um, wevisited giant headquarters in uh
, taichung and there's a cyclingmuseum there, and they, um,
it's a cycling cultural museumand there's a.
They have a beautiful buildingand we, um tended a lecture
(23:16):
about bicycle history in Taiwan,really had a a great stop over
and I I became a huge, huge fanof giant bikes because of it,
cause the the tour was so wellorganized.
They had, uh, two support vans,one with our day packs um, one
with our luggage.
(23:36):
They had gosh, we had 40 peoplein our group.
Some were on e-bikes, some wereolder, some were more
experienced riders, but we hadum leaders, two, three people in
the front of our Peloton andtwo, three, four people in the
back of the Peloton, and thevans would hopscotch uh but uh
(24:00):
and ahead of us, and they hadprofessional photographers who
were taking photos of everyoneas well.
So the giant adventure companyreally produced a fantastic tour
.
That, I think, is just goldstandard of bike touring.
Then it's like, you know, Ineeded to get equipment, you
know.
So when uh I was in Taipei, Ihad to get my derailleur
(24:23):
adjusted, so I dropped into abike shop that was.
There's a lot of giant bikeshops throughout Taiwan, and so
it's easy to get any kind ofspare parts.
I had a pair of cleats thatwore out during the ride, and I
was able to pick those up in oneof the cities that we had gone
(24:49):
through, so it was like very,very convenient biking.
A lot of people are on bikes.
There's a lot of protected bikelanes and a lot of uh stores
where you can either rent bikesor buy bikes or get your bikes
repaired.
Tom Butler (25:05):
You talked about.
You know, which is, I think, anelement of a well-done bike
tour is that you had mealscatered to you.
I'm guessing they were reallygood meals.
Scott Gruber (25:18):
Very good.
You know I'm a fan of eatingall different kinds of cuisines,
but the foods in Taiwan wereparticularly good.
The vegetables were fantastic.
You know, the fruits in Taiwanare really, really good, and
besides all the stir-frieddishes, so we always have a full
(25:41):
meal with a wide range ofTaiwanese delicacies to have.
Tom Butler (25:46):
So they have good mangoes in Taiwan.
Scott Gruber (25:49):
They have fantastic mangoes.
They have really good applepears.
They have wax apples which areparticularly good.
There's this one sort of largefruit that looks like a
bodhisattva's head.
That's very sweet and a bit ofa mess if you're not too
(26:14):
talented eating it but I was.
It was just delicious.
Tom Butler (26:20):
Nice, I gained weight during the ride.
Scott Gruber (26:22):
Okay, I was riding like a hundred kilometers a day
.
Tom Butler (26:25):
Yeah.
Scott Gruber (26:28):
And wait.
It was, it was fantastic.
Tom Butler (26:31):
That's cool.
Scott Gruber (26:33):
And you know, I went back in 2024 for a
self-supported ride as well, andthere's 7-Elevens all over the
place and you can always pick upsweet potatoes or baozi or
hard-boiled eggs, which was agreat way for me to fuel my
(26:53):
rides when I was doingself-supported rides.
There's one other thing I dowanted to share as well.
All right, so I did the ridearound Taiwan, but Taipei has a
riverside bike path that's about60 kilometers that's also
completely, completely protected.
So taipei is surrounded byrivers on three sides and then a
(27:16):
mountain on the on the on oneside, and there's um.
When I was in taipei, I would,you know, take a ride along
these bike paths and there's alot of bikers riding that, as
well as joggers and just birders, and you know it was just
fantastic biking in Taipei andthere was plenty of places to
(27:37):
stop to get good food on the wayas well.
Tom Butler (27:40):
Do you feel like you experienced a real contrast
between Taipei and LA as far ashow much the bicycle has been
embraced?
Scott Gruber (27:50):
You know, yes, for sure, from my perspective.
You know, and I've studiedChinese and was talking with my
teacher about this.
She does podcasts as well inChinese, kind of like talking
about Taiwan like a native isher podcast, and she was talking
about cycling culture in Taiwanand pedestrian culture and
(28:16):
there's a reputation of Taiwanto being a pedestrian hell and I
was like I don't think so,cause compared to my experience
in Los Angeles, los Angeles isthe pedestrian and you know, for
me it was.
You know, the sidewalks arereal hard to walk in in Los
Angeles.
(28:36):
They're, um, not kept very well.
There's, you know, not manybusinesses along the streets,
like in Taiwan, where life isjust pouring onto the streets.
There's, there wasn't as manybig trucks and big cars that if
you do get hit you're going tobe, uh, injured quite seriously
in Los Angeles.
(28:56):
And there's not as many kind ofscooters I guess, um, which I
felt kind of make people more,um, aware of all kinds of
vehicles sharing the road.
So I felt it was a great placeto ride.
Some of it may have to do that.
(29:19):
I was riding for sure on thetrip around Taiwan that I was
riding with a tour group and wehad a set route around Taiwan
that I was riding with a tourgroup and we had a set route.
Taiwan has a national tourroute that is mapped out, that
the government has signs for,and um bike a lot of segregated
(29:42):
bike paths that go around theentire island.
Korea has that as well.
I think I had heard one of yourprevious guests on your podcast
were talking about the nationalride from Seoul to Busan.
Tom Butler (29:54):
Yeah.
Scott Gruber (29:55):
Same sort of thing In Taipei because it has this
riverside bike path.
I had plenty of opportunitiesto ride in a segregated bike
path that was totally safe.
So I didn't.
I felt there was a real strongcommitment to building bike
(30:15):
paths that I don't.
That is a bit of a challenge inLos Angeles.
Tom Butler (30:20):
Yeah, now preparing for this.
Do you feel like you preparedwell?
Did you?
Did you have to preparementally as well as physically?
What?
How did you feel going into itand would you have done anything
different?
Scott Gruber (30:37):
Yeah, um, great question.
I had been.
You know, I fell in love withriding again, so I was, you know
, training pretty hard.
Um, I'm a member of the Rafacycling club in Santa Monica.
You know, I'm chasing the grouphead over with that group, you
know I'm definitely the slowest,but they're a friendly group
(30:59):
and they, you know, reallychallenged me to ride up routes
that are, you know, with a lotof climbing.
And so I was.
I trained.
You know, I was riding a hundredkilometers a week consistently
for a year or two, with a lot ofbase riding, so flats, long
(31:20):
rides, but also combining with aday of hills.
And so I was.
I'm, I'm in pretty good shaperight now.
You know, the biggest problemwas like sitting on a saddle for
multiple days.
I hadn't done that before, butif you've ever ridden a century,
(31:41):
I did a couple of those beforeI went to Taiwan.
So I wrote I had a couplehundred mile rides under my belt
, and so I was.
You know, frankly, I don'tthink I would be singing while I
was riding if I wasn't inpretty good shape, so I was able
to.
You know, with the pace that wehad, I was able to ride and talk
(32:05):
without any problem, and that'susually a good sign for my
cardiovascular if I can talkwhile I'm riding no, that's
perfect.
Tom Butler (32:14):
So what kind of gear did you take with you, as well
as the bike did you have?
Scott Gruber (32:20):
I had two kits.
I had a tire repair kit.
I had my you know first aid kitfor when I went on the tour to
Taiwan, the round the islandtour.
I brought more stuff than Ineeded.
Tom Butler (32:39):
Okay.
Scott Gruber (32:40):
But I had a, you know, we had the support vehicle
so I was able to bring mysuitcase with me.
I couldn't leave my stuff inTaipei so I had to bring
everything with me.
So but my bike, I didn't carrymuch on the bike at all.
Tom Butler (32:55):
Okay.
Scott Gruber (32:56):
When I went back in 2024, it was self-supported
and I got a, a tail fin rackthat, uh, is kind of like a 30
liter backpack but on a mountainon on a rack.
That worked great and that'sall I carried, gotcha and that
(33:16):
one.
I definitely had learned a lotfrom my first riding trip of
what I needed and what I didn'tneed.
You know, I brought, like cliffbars and I brought, like you
know, powdered electrolytes toput in my water.
I can get all that in Taiwan,it's no problem.
Tom Butler (33:33):
Gotcha, and do you think that you were prepared as
far as your clothing?
How's that aspect of it?
Scott Gruber (33:46):
I went in November and that's like prime season
for biking, so there's tours,like every week, in groups of 40
.
So there was other groups thatwere hot scotching ahead of us
and then we'd pass.
So we had a couple days of rain, and I didn't bring a rain
jacket because it was stillreally warm, but the tour group
(34:09):
gave us a rain jacket, okay, andthey also gave us two jerseys,
so I had a rain jacket from themthat I used Maybe, I think, the
fourth or fifth day.
We did some climbing, and youknow, to get from the west side
of the island to the east side,we had to climb over a mountain,
(34:31):
and on the east side of theisland we ran into rain.
So it was really raining hard.
Someone crashed in the in therain, but in general it was
humid and pretty, pretty warm,beautiful weather.
I think, though, if I was toride across the middle of the
Island in the mountains, it canget quite cold, so I'd have to
(34:53):
have a change of clothes to beable to.
So I did, you know, layeringand had enough to.
If I did get cold, I would haveplenty to wear.
I think the biggest challengeis worrying about getting
sunburned.
Tom Butler (35:06):
Okay.
Scott Gruber (35:07):
So a lot of people had a kind of sleeves that are
sun protection and pants thatare sun protecting, but I went
with shorts.
I'd even worked on my tan alittle bit so I didn't get
sunburned, and there wascertainly plenty of sunscreen
with the tour group supplies.
So every time we excuse meevery time we stopped, everyone
(35:32):
put sunscreen back on.
Tom Butler (35:36):
So doing a lot of cycling.
In LA you would get used to theheat, but there, with the heat
and humidity, it seems like itwould be quite different yeah it
.
Scott Gruber (35:48):
Um, I didn't have a problem with the humidity, but
again, november is really likethe prime time of year okay if I
was there during the summertime, when it's really really hot
and humid, it would be a wholeother kind of experience yeah so
I'd we timed our trip aroundthe best time of the year.
I'd recommend that Spring andautumn would be the really good
(36:12):
times to do any riding in Taiwan.
Same in Korea too, actually.
It can get quite warm in thesummertime.
There as well Do they havestorms in the spring.
The typhoon season is towardsthe end of the summer.
Tom Butler (36:24):
Okay, have storms in the spring, the typhoon seasons
towards the end of the summer.
Scott Gruber (36:26):
Okay, when I went 2024, there was a typhoon late
in the season in the end ofoctober that hit the day before
we went.
So I was a little worried, uh,that a lot of trees would be
felled, but the city governmentcleaned everything up within a
(36:47):
day.
I was blown away.
The city governments are veryfunctional and efficient.
Tom Butler (36:55):
So, when you look back at the trip around the
island, I think that is calledTaiwan Cycling Route 1.
And then there's also a nameHondoooo.
I don't know if I'm saying that.
Right, that's the tour, it'scalled hwan dao.
Scott Gruber (37:12):
Hwan dao, okay, yeah, it's translated as a.
Around the island, everyone issaying, oh, you're doing the
hwan dao, and everyoneimmediately knows gotcha okay
and so in fact I was, like I'vedone some tours in los angeles,
that I called it the juan latour it was like around la, yeah
(37:34):
, but it's uh, it's the big deal, it's the.
The honda was the slang termfor taking that route, one
around the entire island.
Tom Butler (37:44):
Now, do you have like something that jumps out as
most memorable from that, orlike most beautiful from that?
Scott Gruber (37:51):
Would it be possible to you know certainly
the people that I met, you knowin the conversations, that he
had been battling withdepression over 10 years and
cycling that he didn't sharewith his wife and he, through
(38:14):
cycling, was able to heal andtake care of some of his mental
health issues.
That's awesome.
You know, there was a marriedcouple that were celebrating
their 25th anniversary, amarried couple that were
celebrating their 25thanniversary and they said if we
can make, uh, if our marriagecan last 25 years, we can have
the strength to do the huandaoand so they were.
(38:34):
They were celebrating theiranniversary by doing the the
huandao nice the tour to taiwan.
There was a 73 year old who Iasked you know, why are you
doing the Huan Dao?
And he said one of his bestfriends had died the previous
year and it affected him so muchthat he decided not to wait for
(39:00):
, you know, to seize the momentin his life and do things that
he hadn't done.
So he was doing the Huan Dao inmemory of his friend and to
seize the moment in his life.
There was a mother and daughterwho were riding together.
They were on e-bikes and sothey were having a mother and
daughter relationship, sort ofbonding experience.
(39:22):
There was a husband and wifefrom Malaysia.
They ride a lot in Malaysia andthey came over to do the Huan
Dao.
There was one gentleman fromNorthern California who
convinced his two friends whohad done the Huan Dao before A
lot of people do it more thanonce and so this was his second
(39:44):
tour of Taiwan and so heconvinced a couple of his
buddies from his cycling club inNorthern California to go with
him, so they were experiencingtheir first Wanda.
So I totally you know there was.
They have a nine day one.
But there's also an extendedtour of Taiwan that hits the
Northern, most northern point,most western, eastern and
(40:08):
southern point.
So it's extended.
Instead of 900 kilometers it'smaybe 1100 kilometers, a little
bit longer, so that one's formore advanced riders who can do
a couple centuries during theride.
I haven't done that one.
A couple centuries during theride, I haven't done that one.
It's just this.
You know, hearing those storiesand seeing people you know
(40:30):
doing their best and enjoyingthat adventure really affected
me a lot and was a peakexperience in my life that I was
able to both do that tour withthem but have them share some of
their life stories.
Tom Butler (40:49):
Now you had more knowledge of Taiwan than maybe
you know the average person inthe US would have, someone that
doesn't know anything aboutTaiwan, is that going to be just
like a great way to see a lotof culture, a lot of different
parts of Taiwan?
(41:10):
Was there time to experiencedifferent places as you went
around?
Scott Gruber (41:17):
Definitely.
You know, each English isalmost the second language in
Taiwan, so if you don't speakChinese, you're in good shape.
I was fortunate enough that youknow they humored me and only
spoke Chinese, so I was able to,you know, work my way with the
language skills that I had,which you know, are not as good
(41:38):
as I would hope the ride is.
We stop at museums.
We stop at temples.
There's English and chinesedescriptions at each of these
temples.
We stopped at a festival forthe sea, god matsu, and you know
although that you know therewas no explanation of what was
(41:59):
happening, but it was.
It was quite a scene.
It was a street festival with alot of parade and a lot of
different cities and townsrepresented in the parade.
Again, we went to the giantheadquarters, which, of course,
had bilingual materials.
There's a lot of people thatspeak Japanese as well, and
(42:22):
signs are in Japanese, korean,english and Chinese.
If you wanted to experienceTaiwan, there's no better way to
see it than doing the tour toTaiwan bike ride.
It's a really, really specialexperience, and not only do you
see a lot of the industrial area, but you also see this
(42:44):
agricultural area, so you get areal strong sense of the
diversity.
I hadn't expected the EastCoast to be so Polynesian.
It reminded me of Tahiti orHawaii.
It had a very strong PacificIsland feel and you know that
led me to learn that some of thelanguages in Polynesia
(43:08):
originated from the people whowere emigrated in Taiwan long,
long, long time ago.
So there is that culturalconnection with the indigenous
population in Taiwan.
Tom Butler (43:22):
Okay, scott, so here's something for you to
think about.
If a group of people came toyou because I see you as kind of
a unique resource now you knowyou can speak a little bit of
the language, you've done thetrip once If a group of people
came to you and said Scott, wereally you know, we got a group
of us that are going aroundTaiwan.
(43:46):
We'd like to pay for you to gowith us, would you be open to
that?
Scott Gruber (43:52):
I would probably pay my own way and definitely
would lead the group.
You know I was talking withsome friends who wanted to do
just that.
And you know it's, I want to goback and ride more, just that.
And uh, you know it's, um, Iwant to go back and ride more.
So, yes, I would love to goback and lead a group to ride in
Taiwan.
(44:12):
I got a book on bicycle touringcalled Taiwan road roads above
the clouds.
That has a lot of GPX files.
So I've got all the maps and,you know, can use them to
navigate some wonderful routes.
I followed these routes duringmy ride in 2024.
(44:32):
That was unsupported.
So a friend of mine who I metduring the 2023 ride around
Taiwan, we rode from Taipei toSun Moon Lake, which is maybe
three, four day ride from Taipei, and used the GPX maps from the
roads above the clouds.
(44:54):
It didn't take us into the highmountains but I was on the
foothills of the mountains andthat was challenging enough for
me.
It was intense.
But I do have a long-term goalof riding up Ali Shan and Wuling
Shan, which is like there's afamous King of the Mountain KOM
(45:15):
challenge in Taiwan, riding fromHualien to Wuling Mountain.
I sort of have a long-term goalto try to do that.
So I I want to go with eitherbeginners who because I know how
to get e-bikes now, or moreadvanced people who want to ride
(45:36):
some mountains, so I'm lookingforward to going back.
The challenge is that I alsowant to ride in Korea and Japan,
and maybe in Europe or Colombiaand South America, even in a in
.
You know, I still need to dothe ride from Seattle to
Portland that you talked about.
(45:57):
You know I was very inspired bythat, by that ride.
Well, it's coming up.
So there's some, you know, soI'm still training up.
So there's some, you know, soI'm still training.
I did the, a grand Fondo andmammoth last year and I have a
century with some friends fromRafa club, the uh Jay Takahashi
spring classic.
It's a self-supported centuryin uh in may and then I'll do uh
(46:21):
some grand Fondos in SantaBarbara in October.
So I've got some rides to keepin shape for when the next time
we go to Taipei.
So we got to go, tom, if youever ever want to go and
experience a ride, I think theTour de Taiwan it's a great,
fully supported ride and it'snot expensive for a tour.
(46:45):
It like 1700 for a single room,which is a bargain for what you
get, because with you know, nota shameless plug for them, but
the uh it's.
It's a really great deal andthe accommodations are fantastic
.
On east side there's hotsprings.
(47:06):
So after you have ridden forseven, eight days, you stop.
The hotels that we stopped athad hot springs so you can get a
nice relaxing recoveryexperience.
We're hopping on the bike thenext day.
Tom Butler (47:24):
It certainly sounds like one of those special trips.
You know just all the differentelements of it, not just Mangos
, which in and of itself is agood reason, but you know all
the other, just the layers of it, the different trains and the
fact that the country is set upso well for bicycles that you
(47:47):
know taiwan is a hub for bicyclemanufacturing and it would just
be interesting to go do thatyou know from what I've read or
people who've ridden in taiwan,it's the hidden gem for cyclists
in the bike touring yeah Ibelieve it's a really, really
great place to ride.
Scott Gruber (48:06):
Gosh, I'm I'm quiet, but my heart is bursting
thinking about planning a ride.
Tom Butler (48:13):
Well, it would be fun and, you know, maybe we'll
have to, you know, figure thatout.
There's so many rides that I'mtrying to figure out how to do.
You know, both in the Statesand all over.
Scott Gruber (48:25):
So you know it's interesting.
I'll plant a seed for you totalk with your wife and daughter
and her husband.
You know a lot of people wereon e-bikes.
Some people started on aregular bike and switched to
e-bikes and so they made itaccessible for anyone.
And you know, although I didthe nine-day ride, they also
have shorter three-day ridesjust on the East Coast.
(48:46):
The pacing for a nine-day rideyou're on the bike all the time.
It'd be nice to do it moreslowly, to have a couple rest
days after four days, have acouple rest days in between the
tour.
It's accessible for anyone whocan be on a bike.
(49:07):
You know, again, there waspeople from 20 to 70, people on
e-bikes and everyone did great.
You know no one, I don't thinkyou know, struggled.
There was some.
You know there was one accident.
A dear friend crashed and hadto drop out, but that was.
You know it was a's done.
(49:27):
A few trips to the Philippines.
Tom Butler (49:48):
And there's always seems to be a number of hours
that is spent in Taipei and soyou know, I think, for her to
expand like what she sees inTaiwan.
I think she'd be reallyinterested in that.
Scott Gruber (50:03):
I couldn't recommend it more.
It's a really, really greatride.
I don't know if I tried toshare some of the photos.
I have some Google photo albumsand I tried to share with you.
If you had a chance to checksome of those out.
I really shouldn't make thempublic, but it's like it's a
very Instagrammy sort of tourCause it's like, you know,
(50:25):
beautiful architecture,beautiful foods, beautiful
people, beautiful locations allalong the way, and you're kind
of in your own group and so youknow you're, you're making
friends with people and I've Ifound the taiwanese were super
friendly and open and welcoming.
(50:45):
I don't think it should be ahard sell.
You know I'll send you the linkto I think it's giant cycling
worldcom, okay, lists all thetours and they do them all year
long and they have, you know,nine day ones to three day ones
to one day one.
You know it's great becausegreat, because I had my GPX and
(51:08):
I had my Strava route for all ofthe touring that I did in
Taiwan, and so I've got, youknow, I also use there's an app
called Relive, okay.
That will create like a 3D mapof the route of any GPX route.
So I used that and pointed at myphotos and it would generate a
whole sort of slideshow for it.
(51:28):
Which is really, which isreally fun that is fun.
Tom Butler (51:32):
Well, scott, I just appreciate so much for you
taking the time to come on andtalk about this, and I am
inspired.
You know I am gonna be lookingto figure out how to get to
Taiwan, along with a lot ofother things I want to do, but
thanks for coming on.
Scott Gruber (51:52):
Hey, tom, I just joined Cycling Over 60 on Strava
just now.
Okay, I wanted to let you knowpart of my personality when I
get into a hobby, I tend to gobroad, okay, and so I've been
listening to a number ofpodcasts on cycling and your
podcast really has meant a lotto me.
(52:13):
You know, the kind of sharingthat you do on your own personal
journey has inspired me to bemore healthy and to take care of
myself and to ride when I'm inmy 70s, and the guests that you
have really tell great tales andthey resonate with me a lot.
So I'm really, really happythat I reached out and rode with
(52:38):
you on the Zwift and we'd hadthe Zoom and had a nice chat
while we were riding togetherand had a nice chat while we
were writing together, and thenyou know that you invited me to
this podcast is like a highlightof my year so far.
Tom Butler (52:51):
Well, that's really cool for you to say, and I
really appreciate that feedbackbecause that's you know, really,
what I want to be about is forpeople to.
I've experienced so muchpositive things for it and I
want other people to as well, sothat's fantastic, thank you
yeah, true, you mean a lot to alot of people.
Scott Gruber (53:09):
Man it's uh, you do, you do some some good stuff.
Thank you so much for thatright attitude thank you.
Tom Butler (53:17):
Well, hopefully we'll get to ride together again
on zwift and and on the zoomand um.
Scott Gruber (53:22):
I'll see you in a couple days.
It's uh, it's uh, what thursdayat three is, usually when you
do your ride 3 pm pacific time.
Tom Butler (53:30):
So, yeah, for sure, looking forward to it.
All right, talk to you later nowthanks, tom scott talked about
taiwan being the hidden gem ofcycling locations.
I can easily see that being thecase.
After hearing him talk abouthis trip With a tour company as
(53:54):
connected with cycling as GiantBike managing the ride, it is
easy to imagine it will continueto be an excellent experience.
The Giant Adventure website,which is the website for their
touring options.
They call Taiwan a cyclingparadise.
It sure seems to me that therewould be a sense of pride on
behalf of the company to giveriders the best experience
(54:15):
possible in their home country.
I'm going to see if we can getsome of Scott's photos in a post
in the Cycling Over 60 StravaClub, so keep an eye open for
those.
Let me again encourage peopleto join the Thursday Zoom call.
You can get an invite to thecall by sending me an email.
My email is in the show notes.
There's also the Cycling Over60 Zwift Thursday ride.
You can access that by joiningthe Cycling Over 60 Zwift Club.
(54:39):
But even if you aren't doingthe Zwift ride, stop by the Zoom
chat and say hello.
They both happen at 3 pmPacific time.
One final reminder about theRails to Trails fundraiser.
Come join in with Team Huffingand Puffing the link and the
password to join the team are inthe show notes.
That is it for this episode,and I hope you get out this week
and enjoy the road, whetheryou're getting pampered on an
(55:01):
organized cycling adventure orwhether you're just out near
your home and remember, age isjust a gear change.
This is the Cycling Over 60 Podcast, season 3,
episode 24, taiwan, cyclingRoute Number One, and I'm your
host, tom Butler.
The truth is that new thingsdon't come easy to me.
(00:25):
I feel like I'm always fightingto keep on track with staying
healthy.
My latest battle is with thedietary changes that I've been
trying to make for over a monthnow.
Food preparation is not myfavorite thing in the world, and
I'm finding it really difficultto get in the groove of cooking
differently.
I typically like to eat prettymuch the same thing every day,
just because it's easier thatway.
(00:45):
I'm not someone that needs alot of variety when it comes to
meals.
The simpler the better.
That is one of the things thatmakes the change that I'm trying
to make difficult.
I'm using a meal plan from acompany, and I do think they do
an excellent job putting mealstogether.
I think they have found thatmost people like variety, so
they provided a six-week mealplan that has a lot of variety.
(01:06):
For me, the variety means it isharder to shop and harder to do
meal preparation.
I've gotten in the habit ofeating two meals a day.
This meal plan is three meals aday, so that means not just
more prep time per meal, but anadditional meal every day.
I don't know why I find it sodifficult to carve out time to
prepare meals, but it takes realdiscipline for me.
(01:30):
A second problem with the mealplan is that I would need a bit
of time to get used to theflavor of the food.
I have no doubt that I wouldeventually come to enjoy the
food, but I think it would takea couple of months to retrain my
taste buds.
I've not really enjoyed themeals that I've tried so far.
Again, I think I wouldeventually welcome the new
flavors and the variety of themeals, but it would take me
putting up with less appealingmeals for a while.
(01:50):
And the final obstacle is that,because the meals are very low
in fat, I don't feel satisfiedafter eating.
Once again, I think this isjust a matter of adjustment for
my body.
Even with the challenges, Ithink I'm going to be able to
make this switch if I can getinto the habit of planning meals
out on Sunday and Wednesday.
I originally thought I could dojust Sunday, but I think I
(02:12):
really can't do more than a fewdays of planning at a time If I
can establish this process ofmeal planning for just three
weeks.
I think I will get used todoing meals differently and then
I'd be able to adjust the otheraspects of this new food.
I'd be tempted to just call itquits, but I do believe there is
a chance that eating verylow-fat meals could help create
(02:33):
more insulin sensitivity at thecellular level, and if that is
the case, for me it means it iswell worth the hassle.
Last week I mentioned that I'mlooking to take my bike on the
train and go down to Eugene,oregon, to do a ride.
A listener from Seattle sent atext saying that they find that
riding around Eugene is reallygood and they have taken the
(02:54):
train down in the past.
It was encouraging to hear thatsomebody had a good experience
with this.
In addition to hearing thislistener's perspective, amtrak
recently announced new trainsare coming to the Northwest.
Amtrak announced the new Aerotrains that are quote a modern
passenger experience end quote.
I'm really not sure what thatmeans.
Aero is spelled A-I-R-O and itsounds like Amtrak is expecting
(03:19):
that people are going to reallylike these new trains.
The Pacific Northwest is set tobe the first home for the new
trains.
They're scheduled to be here in2026.
In a blog post from June 21stlast year, the League of
American Bicyclists stated thattheir work with Amtrak yielded
an agreement from them toincrease capacity for bicycles
on the AeroTrains.
(03:39):
Now this makes me even moreinterested in taking a train
trip this year so that I cancompare the experience with the
new cars in the future.
Ultimately, I would love tofigure out some trips down the
West Coast by bike and train.
There's a route called theCoast Starlight that runs down
the Pacific Coast.
It would be really fun to jumpon that route for a few days and
(04:01):
camp and bike at a couple stops.
One option is taking the trainto Martinez, california, in
October for the Bike the Bridgesevent.
That event benefits theNorthern California Special
Olympics.
The route is only 50k but itsounds really unique.
I think combining that eventwith another stop along the way
could make for a memorable trip.
(04:22):
I want to remind people that theRails to Trails Conservancy
fundraiser, called the GreatAmerican Ride, starts this
Saturday.
It goes to June 6th.
It is not too late to sign up.
The event is very easy.
You just log the miles that younormally do into the event
website and it tracks a virtualteam along the Great American
Rail Trail.
I believe the work being doneby Rails to Trails is really
(04:44):
important.
I think they're helping toestablish active transportation
and recreational opportunitiesand I truly feel that it's worth
supporting them, and thisfundraiser seems like a really
fun way to do that.
You can find information aboutthe fundraiser by searching for
the Great American Ride.
I'll put a link in the shownotes for the team I'm going to
be on.
The team is called Huffing andPuffing.
(05:06):
Last time I placed the link Iforgot to put in the password
for the team, so I'll make sureto include that this time.
So go to the show notes andfollow the link and join me and
some others as we take thischallenge on as a team.
(05:30):
Last week we got to hear about agreat bike trip from a podcast
listener and I'm happy that weget to do the same thing this
week.
Scott Gruber joined me for boththe Cycling Over 60 Zwift
Thursday ride and also theThursday Zoom chat.
In the Zoom chat he sharedabout a ride that he did around
Taiwan and I was reallyintrigued by the adventure, so
(05:50):
he came on the podcast todiscuss it with me, and here's
the conversation Scott and I had.
I love having the Zoom chats onThursdays because it gives me a
chance to chat with people Iwouldn't otherwise get to meet,
and my guest today is one ofthose people.
Thank you, scott Gruber, forjoining me.
Scott Gruber (06:09):
Thank you for inviting me.
Tom Butler (06:11):
Yeah, great to be here.
Let's start out by having youtell me about your earliest
memories of the bicycle.
Scott Gruber (06:19):
Oh, that's great.
I grew up in Phoenix, arizona,and I had a BMX bike when I was
in elementary school and I usedto ride with my best friend at
the time, dudley Mermanish, andride to school after school,
just kind of out playing.
(06:39):
So that's definitely myearliest memory of riding a bike
.
Tom Butler (06:43):
Yeah, that's cool and that sounds really fun.
Scott Gruber (06:47):
Yeah, I don't know if you remember Webco that was
like the brand but I was soexcited with that bike, it was
fun and Phoenix was pretty goodfor riding back then, so it was
a great entry into it.
Then, when I was in college, Ihad a mountain bike and I went
(07:08):
to UC Santa Barbara and theyhave a great biking community
there and so all through campusthere's bike paths, all around,
everyone rides bikes and at UCSanta Barbara and getting to
Santa Barbara there's a greatbike path and so I wrote a lot
when I was in college.
Then I sort of stopped and gotback into it when I was during
(07:33):
the pandemic.
Okay, and so, like you, I wasriding a Trek FX.
Mine was FX4.
I think you had told me youwere on an FX3.
Tom Butler (07:42):
Yeah.
Scott Gruber (07:43):
And so I had a you know, flat bar3.
Yeah, and so I had a flat barbike, and I live in Los Angeles
now, so there's a riverside bikepath that also leads to the
ocean.
There's a beach bike path thatgoes from Santa Monica down to
Palos Verdes, so I rode that alot.
Tom Butler (08:03):
Now, right now, this time of year, when we're
starting to get just hints ofspring coming, a bike path along
the beach in California soundspretty good to me.
Scott Gruber (08:13):
Yeah, I'm pretty spoiled with it because it's a
protected bike path, althoughthere's a lot of pedestrians on
it and a lot of bicyclists.
So you know I it's a greatplace to cruise.
You know there's a few peoplethat ride real fast, but I'm not
a speed demon kind of personand the view is fantastic.
So next time you're in losangeles and you want to go for a
(08:35):
bike ride, let me know I'll.
I'll be happy to show youthat'd be awesome.
Tom Butler (08:41):
Yeah, you talked about getting away from it for a
number of years.
It sounds like.
Could you say why that was?
Have you thought about why yougot away from?
Scott Gruber (08:54):
it Didn't ride quite a bit as I fell into the
pattern in Los Angeles where itwas a lot of driving.
It was funny.
There were some times when Idid ride my bike from near
(09:15):
downtown Los Angeles there's atown called Silver Lake and I
worked at UCLA, so it takes meit's about six miles to drive
back and forth, so about an hour.
But I could ride my bike injust an hour and 10 minutes and
so I figured I'm actually justdriving six miles an hour both
(09:40):
ways, because it's about thatlong of a time and I can ride a
bike at, you know, easily at 10miles an hour.
But, um, I'm afraid of cars anddidn't, uh, feel totally
comfortable riding, so I fellout of the, the culture of
biking and but I'm really reallyglad I got back into it and I
(10:03):
finally got my first road bikeand I have a mountain bike.
So I got back into it and Ifinally got my first road bike
and I have a mountain bike.
So I've been exploring theSanta Monica Mountains as well
as some of the local hills inSanta Monica and the Palisades
and Brentwood, all along theSanta Monica Mountains leading
into Griffith Park.
Tom Butler (10:22):
So what road bike did you get?
Scott Gruber (10:24):
I got a Trek Domani.
It's the most I really like it,but it was like the least
expensive one.
It was like you know, Iupgraded the wheels and put
carbon wheels on it, so it waslike three grand plus a thousand
bucks for wheels, and so it'snot one of those like really,
(10:46):
really expensive domani's thatare like what ten, twelve right
thousand dollars.
That's way out of my budget,but it was still a significant
investment for me.
But uh, I like it.
It's.
It's uh all black and has agold letters with trek and uh
it's.
It's suited me well Cause I'mnot a racing cyclist, so it's an
(11:09):
endurance bike and so it fitsmy body type pretty well.
And throughout my whole bikinghistory it's the first time I
had a drop bar bike and I really, really like it Cause I can
shift my position on it and it'sturned out to be a real good
workhorse for me.
I put like 12, almost 15,000miles on it already.
Tom Butler (11:33):
Nice, nice.
Well, we got talking on theThursday Zoom call about a trip
that you did to Taiwan and Ijust really wanted listeners to
hear about that trip.
It's the example of likebecause of the podcast I hear of
all these great trips and it'slike man, now I have another
(11:54):
trip on my list.
But I think this is like one ofthose kinds of trips that it's
like you put it on your list andI'm wondering what first
inspired you to go to Taiwan.
Scott Gruber (12:04):
You put it on your list and I'm wondering what
first inspired you to go toTaiwan.
Well, you know, my wife, sue,is from Taiwan, so we had gone
to Taiwan right before thepandemic.
I am a web designer, so I wasinvited to do a web design
(12:26):
workshop in Cameroon in WestAfrica, over a three-month
period.
I went to Cameroon and was inLos Angeles and then was in
Taiwan right before the pandemicvisiting family there.
It reminded me how much I loveTaiwan, family there, and just,
(12:46):
uh um, it reminded me how much Ilove Taiwan.
When I was in college I lived inTaiwan for about a little less
than a year and, uh um, workthere.
I don't know if you rememberCompuServe it was kind of like a
, an internet service provider.
Back in the day I worked at acompany Fujitsu had bought it
for the Japanese market, calledit Fujitsu Serve, and I worked
(13:10):
at a company called TTN Serveand that was translating
CompuServe to the Taiwan market,and so you know, I lived there
at a time when they were justbuilding out all the subways and
, and so it was known as likethe dark age period in Chinese.
(13:30):
Everything was quite chaotic,and now, 30 years later, when I
went back, all of those subwaysare done and the infrastructure
is fantastic for biking.
So after the pandemic this wasNovember 2023, we went back for
(13:52):
a visit and I had gotten intobiking quite a bit and so I
wanted to bring my bike and ride.
And Sue's sister, tina, wholives in Taipei, told me oh, you
got to do this ride.
There's a round Taiwan tourthat everyone does and the giant
(14:13):
bicycle company sets up thetour for it.
So I looked it up and I waslike, oh my god, this is perfect
.
So I signed up and it was anine day, eight night ride
around the island, which isabout 900 kilometers, maybe five
, six hundred miles, and it uh,it's like a all-inclusive tour
(14:37):
package.
And so I, you know, brought mybike, my trek, in a bike bag
onto the plane and brought itover to taiwan and joined the
group.
Tom Butler (14:48):
Now, when you say your trek, you have two tre now,
so which one has that?
Was that before you got theDomani?
Scott Gruber (14:55):
Yeah, it was the Domani.
Tom Butler (14:57):
The Trek.
Scott Gruber (14:58):
FX I gave to my son-in-law.
Okay, it's up in San Mateo.
And so now in the family wehave a hybrid, the Trek FX4, my
road bike, which is the Domani,and I picked up a mountain bike
that I ride in the Santa MonicaHills, which is a Cervelo.
(15:19):
Okay, okay, but that's adifferent story.
So I brought the Trek Domani toTaipei.
Tom Butler (15:27):
Now.
So they said it was a tourcompany and so they had the
route all planned out, so thatwasn't something that you needed
to decide on.
Scott Gruber (15:39):
No, no, no, I hadn't realized.
But Taiwan has a great bikingculture and the tour company
that I did is.
You maybe have heard of GiantBikes, oh yeah, they're the
largest manufacturer of bicyclesin the world, yeah, and they
have a foundation in Taiwan andthey sponsor these tours and so
(16:02):
it's part of the identity ofTaiwanese to ride a bike around
the island and so it's a bigdeal.
There's a lot of differentgroups.
In my group.
We had 40 people and most ofthem were local Taiwanese.
We had a few Chinese Americans,we had a couple from Malaysia,
(16:28):
a couple from Hong Kong, butmostly it was Taiwanese and the
age groups were from like 20 to70 plus, and I was the only
non-native speaker in the group,but I had studied Chinese
hadn't used it much in a longtime, but I was able to
(16:50):
communicate and it really got meinspired to seriously study
Chinese again because I had somuch fun talking with people and
writing with them during thetrip.
Tom Butler (17:01):
Now they must have been kind of happy I don't know
what the right word is but maybeeven a bit impressed by you
being able to converse a bit inChinese.
Scott Gruber (17:12):
It was hilarious because, you know, all my
Chinese came back, and so I was,you know, I used to go to
karaoke all the time and used tosing songs in Chinese, and
those came back, and some of thepoems that I had memorized came
back, and so all the time I wassinging in Chinese, and
(17:33):
everyone in the group it was akind of one of these peak
experiences and we all werewriting together, and so all we
did all day was ride and chat,and so they welcomed me and I
was, you know, very, verygrateful with they welcomed me
and I was, you know, very, verygrateful with, you know, with
their spirit of bringing me inand sharing with me the beauty
(17:55):
of the island of Taiwan.
Tom Butler (17:57):
I had sent you a question if you had ever heard
of the film Island Etude.
It doesn't sound like you'veheard of it.
Scott Gruber (18:07):
No, I hadn't.
You know, there's a lot ofyoutube videos on biking in
taiwan.
I looked up that film and andsaw this from a while ago and
but I didn't watch it.
Could you share a little bitabout it with me?
Tom Butler (18:20):
well, my understanding is that some of
the almost rite of passage maybeof doing the trip around Taiwan
, that it was kind of spurred onby that film and so it is an
older film and it's a story of adeaf college student that
(18:43):
decides to ride around theisland.
Scott Gruber (18:46):
And I've not seen it.
That's right.
In my wheelhouse Some of myfriends that I was riding with
they told me there's, like youknow, three things that you want
to do as part of your taiwaneseidentity, and one is to ride a
bike around the island, anotheris to swim in sun moon lake and
another one is to hike up jademountain.
(19:07):
So far I've got one of thosethings done so do you have plans
to do?
the others is that like yeah, Iwrote to sun moon lake but they
have a big festival where like10 000 people swim in sun moon
lake on the same day and that'ssort of like the big event to do
(19:29):
and so that's in September andI haven't been able to do it yet
but it's on my, it's on mybucket list for sure to do and
this, this kind of like you know, the film Island of Two, to
have this journey of touring theisland as part of the identity
of Taiwanese, is so fascinatingto me because it's like I had
(19:55):
never gone bike touring beforeand there was something so
wonderful about slowing down ona bike but yet you're going fast
enough that you can go quite adistance to see the countryside.
So our routine was, you know,breakfast morning calisthenics
(20:18):
hop on our bike ride for maybe20 kilometers, stop at a temple
or a park.
So we stopped a lot, lot ofTaoist temples and Confucian
temples and have a snack.
Everyone would check their cellphones, but we would have time
(20:39):
to get some water and have somebananas and oranges and apples.
We were very well fed and sonone of us had problems with
fueling the ride.
We'd stop at a cateredrestaurant, so we had great
Chinese food for lunch.
We'd sit all together and chatand then right in the afternoon
(21:05):
with another break and meet upat the hotel where we'd have a
catered dinner and then do itagain the next day.
So it was like you know, andthe whole time we're, you know,
riding down the West coast ofTaiwan, which is very industrial
but still quite a number ofbike paths, all the way down to
(21:27):
the Southern tip and moving overto the east coast, which is
very agricultural.
So going through rice fields inthis east river, east rift
valley, it's just gorgeous.
But even in the uh city on um,in the industrial areas on the
west coast, you still have thesekind of uh layers of mountains
(21:48):
on, I guess, on the left and,and you know, on on the east.
Tom Butler (21:52):
On our east side, you know, taiwan is has the
highest number of over 10 000feet mountains, wow, of any
island in the world wow so it'slike, uh um, great for biking if
you're into riding hills right,you talked about giant, you
know, and in giant, in 1977 theceo of giant negotiated a deal
(22:20):
with schwinn and that's reallywhen they took off.
But ever since 1977 they havebeen a major manufacturer and
and really the carbon fiberbicycle available to to most
people.
That happened because of giantand so.
(22:42):
I'm wondering if, if you could,you know if you would see, like
the evidence of Taiwan beingsuch a hub for bicycle
manufacturing or not, really onthe trip that you did oh,
totally, we did.
Scott Gruber (22:56):
Um, I got sort of two anecdotes that I can share
about that one is, um, wevisited giant headquarters in uh
, taichung and there's a cyclingmuseum there, and they, um,
it's a cycling cultural museumand there's a.
They have a beautiful buildingand we, um tended a lecture
(23:16):
about bicycle history in Taiwan,really had a a great stop over
and I I became a huge, huge fanof giant bikes because of it,
cause the the tour was so wellorganized.
They had, uh, two support vans,one with our day packs um, one
with our luggage.
(23:36):
They had gosh, we had 40 peoplein our group.
Some were on e-bikes, some wereolder, some were more
experienced riders, but we hadum leaders, two, three people in
the front of our Peloton andtwo, three, four people in the
back of the Peloton, and thevans would hopscotch uh but uh
(24:00):
and ahead of us, and they hadprofessional photographers who
were taking photos of everyoneas well.
So the giant adventure companyreally produced a fantastic tour
.
That, I think, is just goldstandard of bike touring.
Then it's like, you know, Ineeded to get equipment, you
know.
So when uh I was in Taipei, Ihad to get my derailleur
(24:23):
adjusted, so I dropped into abike shop that was.
There's a lot of giant bikeshops throughout Taiwan, and so
it's easy to get any kind ofspare parts.
I had a pair of cleats thatwore out during the ride, and I
was able to pick those up in oneof the cities that we had gone
(24:49):
through, so it was like very,very convenient biking.
A lot of people are on bikes.
There's a lot of protected bikelanes and a lot of uh stores
where you can either rent bikesor buy bikes or get your bikes
repaired.
Tom Butler (25:05):
You talked about.
You know, which is, I think, anelement of a well-done bike
tour is that you had mealscatered to you.
I'm guessing they were reallygood meals.
Scott Gruber (25:18):
Very good.
You know I'm a fan of eatingall different kinds of cuisines,
but the foods in Taiwan wereparticularly good.
The vegetables were fantastic.
You know, the fruits in Taiwanare really, really good, and
besides all the stir-frieddishes, so we always have a full
(25:41):
meal with a wide range ofTaiwanese delicacies to have.
Tom Butler (25:46):
So they have good mangoes in Taiwan.
Scott Gruber (25:49):
They have fantastic mangoes.
They have really good applepears.
They have wax apples which areparticularly good.
There's this one sort of largefruit that looks like a
bodhisattva's head.
That's very sweet and a bit ofa mess if you're not too
(26:14):
talented eating it but I was.
It was just delicious.
Tom Butler (26:20):
Nice, I gained weight during the ride.
Scott Gruber (26:22):
Okay, I was riding like a hundred kilometers a day
.
Tom Butler (26:25):
Yeah.
Scott Gruber (26:28):
And wait.
It was, it was fantastic.
Tom Butler (26:31):
That's cool.
Scott Gruber (26:33):
And you know, I went back in 2024 for a
self-supported ride as well, andthere's 7-Elevens all over the
place and you can always pick upsweet potatoes or baozi or
hard-boiled eggs, which was agreat way for me to fuel my
(26:53):
rides when I was doingself-supported rides.
There's one other thing I dowanted to share as well.
All right, so I did the ridearound Taiwan, but Taipei has a
riverside bike path that's about60 kilometers that's also
completely, completely protected.
So taipei is surrounded byrivers on three sides and then a
(27:16):
mountain on the on the on oneside, and there's um.
When I was in taipei, I would,you know, take a ride along
these bike paths and there's alot of bikers riding that, as
well as joggers and just birders, and you know it was just
fantastic biking in Taipei andthere was plenty of places to
(27:37):
stop to get good food on the wayas well.
Tom Butler (27:40):
Do you feel like you experienced a real contrast
between Taipei and LA as far ashow much the bicycle has been
embraced?
Scott Gruber (27:50):
You know, yes, for sure, from my perspective.
You know, and I've studiedChinese and was talking with my
teacher about this.
She does podcasts as well inChinese, kind of like talking
about Taiwan like a native isher podcast, and she was talking
about cycling culture in Taiwanand pedestrian culture and
(28:16):
there's a reputation of Taiwanto being a pedestrian hell and I
was like I don't think so,cause compared to my experience
in Los Angeles, los Angeles isthe pedestrian and you know, for
me it was.
You know, the sidewalks arereal hard to walk in in Los
Angeles.
(28:36):
They're, um, not kept very well.
There's, you know, not manybusinesses along the streets,
like in Taiwan, where life isjust pouring onto the streets.
There's, there wasn't as manybig trucks and big cars that if
you do get hit you're going tobe, uh, injured quite seriously
in Los Angeles.
(28:56):
And there's not as many kind ofscooters I guess, um, which I
felt kind of make people more,um, aware of all kinds of
vehicles sharing the road.
So I felt it was a great placeto ride.
Some of it may have to do that.
(29:19):
I was riding for sure on thetrip around Taiwan that I was
riding with a tour group and wehad a set route around Taiwan
that I was riding with a tourgroup and we had a set route.
Taiwan has a national tourroute that is mapped out, that
the government has signs for,and um bike a lot of segregated
(29:42):
bike paths that go around theentire island.
Korea has that as well.
I think I had heard one of yourprevious guests on your podcast
were talking about the nationalride from Seoul to Busan.
Tom Butler (29:54):
Yeah.
Scott Gruber (29:55):
Same sort of thing In Taipei because it has this
riverside bike path.
I had plenty of opportunitiesto ride in a segregated bike
path that was totally safe.
So I didn't.
I felt there was a real strongcommitment to building bike
(30:15):
paths that I don't.
That is a bit of a challenge inLos Angeles.
Tom Butler (30:20):
Yeah, now preparing for this.
Do you feel like you preparedwell?
Did you?
Did you have to preparementally as well as physically?
What?
How did you feel going into itand would you have done anything
different?
Scott Gruber (30:37):
Yeah, um, great question.
I had been.
You know, I fell in love withriding again, so I was, you know
, training pretty hard.
Um, I'm a member of the Rafacycling club in Santa Monica.
You know, I'm chasing the grouphead over with that group, you
know I'm definitely the slowest,but they're a friendly group
(30:59):
and they, you know, reallychallenged me to ride up routes
that are, you know, with a lotof climbing.
And so I was.
I trained.
You know, I was riding a hundredkilometers a week consistently
for a year or two, with a lot ofbase riding, so flats, long
(31:20):
rides, but also combining with aday of hills.
And so I was.
I'm, I'm in pretty good shaperight now.
You know, the biggest problemwas like sitting on a saddle for
multiple days.
I hadn't done that before, butif you've ever ridden a century,
(31:41):
I did a couple of those beforeI went to Taiwan.
So I wrote I had a couplehundred mile rides under my belt
, and so I was.
You know, frankly, I don'tthink I would be singing while I
was riding if I wasn't inpretty good shape, so I was able
to.
You know, with the pace that wehad, I was able to ride and talk
(32:05):
without any problem, and that'susually a good sign for my
cardiovascular if I can talkwhile I'm riding no, that's
perfect.
Tom Butler (32:14):
So what kind of gear did you take with you, as well
as the bike did you have?
Scott Gruber (32:20):
I had two kits.
I had a tire repair kit.
I had my you know first aid kitfor when I went on the tour to
Taiwan, the round the islandtour.
I brought more stuff than Ineeded.
Tom Butler (32:39):
Okay.
Scott Gruber (32:40):
But I had a, you know, we had the support vehicle
so I was able to bring mysuitcase with me.
I couldn't leave my stuff inTaipei so I had to bring
everything with me.
So but my bike, I didn't carrymuch on the bike at all.
Tom Butler (32:55):
Okay.
Scott Gruber (32:56):
When I went back in 2024, it was self-supported
and I got a, a tail fin rackthat, uh, is kind of like a 30
liter backpack but on a mountainon on a rack.
That worked great and that'sall I carried, gotcha and that
(33:16):
one.
I definitely had learned a lotfrom my first riding trip of
what I needed and what I didn'tneed.
You know, I brought, like cliffbars and I brought, like you
know, powdered electrolytes toput in my water.
I can get all that in Taiwan,it's no problem.
Tom Butler (33:33):
Gotcha, and do you think that you were prepared as
far as your clothing?
How's that aspect of it?
Scott Gruber (33:46):
I went in November and that's like prime season
for biking, so there's tours,like every week, in groups of 40
.
So there was other groups thatwere hot scotching ahead of us
and then we'd pass.
So we had a couple days of rain, and I didn't bring a rain
jacket because it was stillreally warm, but the tour group
(34:09):
gave us a rain jacket, okay, andthey also gave us two jerseys,
so I had a rain jacket from themthat I used Maybe, I think, the
fourth or fifth day.
We did some climbing, and youknow, to get from the west side
of the island to the east side,we had to climb over a mountain,
(34:31):
and on the east side of theisland we ran into rain.
So it was really raining hard.
Someone crashed in the in therain, but in general it was
humid and pretty, pretty warm,beautiful weather.
I think, though, if I was toride across the middle of the
Island in the mountains, it canget quite cold, so I'd have to
(34:53):
have a change of clothes to beable to.
So I did, you know, layeringand had enough to.
If I did get cold, I would haveplenty to wear.
I think the biggest challengeis worrying about getting
sunburned.
Tom Butler (35:06):
Okay.
Scott Gruber (35:07):
So a lot of people had a kind of sleeves that are
sun protection and pants thatare sun protecting, but I went
with shorts.
I'd even worked on my tan alittle bit so I didn't get
sunburned, and there wascertainly plenty of sunscreen
with the tour group supplies.
So every time we excuse meevery time we stopped, everyone
(35:32):
put sunscreen back on.
Tom Butler (35:36):
So doing a lot of cycling.
In LA you would get used to theheat, but there, with the heat
and humidity, it seems like itwould be quite different yeah it
.
Scott Gruber (35:48):
Um, I didn't have a problem with the humidity, but
again, november is really likethe prime time of year okay if I
was there during the summertime, when it's really really hot
and humid, it would be a wholeother kind of experience yeah so
I'd we timed our trip aroundthe best time of the year.
I'd recommend that Spring andautumn would be the really good
(36:12):
times to do any riding in Taiwan.
Same in Korea too, actually.
It can get quite warm in thesummertime.
There as well Do they havestorms in the spring.
The typhoon season is towardsthe end of the summer.
Tom Butler (36:24):
Okay, have storms in the spring, the typhoon seasons
towards the end of the summer.
Scott Gruber (36:26):
Okay, when I went 2024, there was a typhoon late
in the season in the end ofoctober that hit the day before
we went.
So I was a little worried, uh,that a lot of trees would be
felled, but the city governmentcleaned everything up within a
(36:47):
day.
I was blown away.
The city governments are veryfunctional and efficient.
Tom Butler (36:55):
So, when you look back at the trip around the
island, I think that is calledTaiwan Cycling Route 1.
And then there's also a nameHondoooo.
I don't know if I'm saying that.
Right, that's the tour, it'scalled hwan dao.
Scott Gruber (37:12):
Hwan dao, okay, yeah, it's translated as a.
Around the island, everyone issaying, oh, you're doing the
hwan dao, and everyoneimmediately knows gotcha okay
and so in fact I was, like I'vedone some tours in los angeles,
that I called it the juan latour it was like around la, yeah
(37:34):
, but it's uh, it's the big deal, it's the.
The honda was the slang termfor taking that route, one
around the entire island.
Tom Butler (37:44):
Now, do you have like something that jumps out as
most memorable from that, orlike most beautiful from that?
Scott Gruber (37:51):
Would it be possible to you know certainly
the people that I met, you knowin the conversations, that he
had been battling withdepression over 10 years and
cycling that he didn't sharewith his wife and he, through
(38:14):
cycling, was able to heal andtake care of some of his mental
health issues.
That's awesome.
You know, there was a marriedcouple that were celebrating
their 25th anniversary, amarried couple that were
celebrating their 25thanniversary and they said if we
can make, uh, if our marriagecan last 25 years, we can have
the strength to do the huandaoand so they were.
(38:34):
They were celebrating theiranniversary by doing the the
huandao nice the tour to taiwan.
There was a 73 year old who Iasked you know, why are you
doing the Huan Dao?
And he said one of his bestfriends had died the previous
year and it affected him so muchthat he decided not to wait for
(39:00):
, you know, to seize the momentin his life and do things that
he hadn't done.
So he was doing the Huan Dao inmemory of his friend and to
seize the moment in his life.
There was a mother and daughterwho were riding together.
They were on e-bikes and sothey were having a mother and
daughter relationship, sort ofbonding experience.
(39:22):
There was a husband and wifefrom Malaysia.
They ride a lot in Malaysia andthey came over to do the Huan
Dao.
There was one gentleman fromNorthern California who
convinced his two friends whohad done the Huan Dao before A
lot of people do it more thanonce and so this was his second
(39:44):
tour of Taiwan and so heconvinced a couple of his
buddies from his cycling club inNorthern California to go with
him, so they were experiencingtheir first Wanda.
So I totally you know there was.
They have a nine day one.
But there's also an extendedtour of Taiwan that hits the
Northern, most northern point,most western, eastern and
(40:08):
southern point.
So it's extended.
Instead of 900 kilometers it'smaybe 1100 kilometers, a little
bit longer, so that one's formore advanced riders who can do
a couple centuries during theride.
I haven't done that one.
A couple centuries during theride, I haven't done that one.
It's just this.
You know, hearing those storiesand seeing people you know
(40:30):
doing their best and enjoyingthat adventure really affected
me a lot and was a peakexperience in my life that I was
able to both do that tour withthem but have them share some of
their life stories.
Tom Butler (40:49):
Now you had more knowledge of Taiwan than maybe
you know the average person inthe US would have, someone that
doesn't know anything aboutTaiwan, is that going to be just
like a great way to see a lotof culture, a lot of different
parts of Taiwan?
(41:10):
Was there time to experiencedifferent places as you went
around?
Scott Gruber (41:17):
Definitely.
You know, each English isalmost the second language in
Taiwan, so if you don't speakChinese, you're in good shape.
I was fortunate enough that youknow they humored me and only
spoke Chinese, so I was able to,you know, work my way with the
language skills that I had,which you know, are not as good
(41:38):
as I would hope the ride is.
We stop at museums.
We stop at temples.
There's English and chinesedescriptions at each of these
temples.
We stopped at a festival forthe sea, god matsu, and you know
although that you know therewas no explanation of what was
(41:59):
happening, but it was.
It was quite a scene.
It was a street festival with alot of parade and a lot of
different cities and townsrepresented in the parade.
Again, we went to the giantheadquarters, which, of course,
had bilingual materials.
There's a lot of people thatspeak Japanese as well, and
(42:22):
signs are in Japanese, korean,english and Chinese.
If you wanted to experienceTaiwan, there's no better way to
see it than doing the tour toTaiwan bike ride.
It's a really, really specialexperience, and not only do you
see a lot of the industrial area, but you also see this
(42:44):
agricultural area, so you get areal strong sense of the
diversity.
I hadn't expected the EastCoast to be so Polynesian.
It reminded me of Tahiti orHawaii.
It had a very strong PacificIsland feel and you know that
led me to learn that some of thelanguages in Polynesia
(43:08):
originated from the people whowere emigrated in Taiwan long,
long, long time ago.
So there is that culturalconnection with the indigenous
population in Taiwan.
Tom Butler (43:22):
Okay, scott, so here's something for you to
think about.
If a group of people came toyou because I see you as kind of
a unique resource now you knowyou can speak a little bit of
the language, you've done thetrip once If a group of people
came to you and said Scott, wereally you know, we got a group
of us that are going aroundTaiwan.
(43:46):
We'd like to pay for you to gowith us, would you be open to
that?
Scott Gruber (43:52):
I would probably pay my own way and definitely
would lead the group.
You know I was talking withsome friends who wanted to do
just that.
And you know it's, I want to goback and ride more, just that.
And uh, you know it's, um, Iwant to go back and ride more.
So, yes, I would love to goback and lead a group to ride in
Taiwan.
(44:12):
I got a book on bicycle touringcalled Taiwan road roads above
the clouds.
That has a lot of GPX files.
So I've got all the maps and,you know, can use them to
navigate some wonderful routes.
I followed these routes duringmy ride in 2024.
(44:32):
That was unsupported.
So a friend of mine who I metduring the 2023 ride around
Taiwan, we rode from Taipei toSun Moon Lake, which is maybe
three, four day ride from Taipei, and used the GPX maps from the
roads above the clouds.
(44:54):
It didn't take us into the highmountains but I was on the
foothills of the mountains andthat was challenging enough for
me.
It was intense.
But I do have a long-term goalof riding up Ali Shan and Wuling
Shan, which is like there's afamous King of the Mountain KOM
(45:15):
challenge in Taiwan, riding fromHualien to Wuling Mountain.
I sort of have a long-term goalto try to do that.
So I I want to go with eitherbeginners who because I know how
to get e-bikes now, or moreadvanced people who want to ride
(45:36):
some mountains, so I'm lookingforward to going back.
The challenge is that I alsowant to ride in Korea and Japan,
and maybe in Europe or Colombiaand South America, even in a in
.
You know, I still need to dothe ride from Seattle to
Portland that you talked about.
(45:57):
You know I was very inspired bythat, by that ride.
Well, it's coming up.
So there's some, you know, soI'm still training up.
So there's some, you know, soI'm still training.
I did the, a grand Fondo andmammoth last year and I have a
century with some friends fromRafa club, the uh Jay Takahashi
spring classic.
It's a self-supported centuryin uh in may and then I'll do uh
(46:21):
some grand Fondos in SantaBarbara in October.
So I've got some rides to keepin shape for when the next time
we go to Taipei.
So we got to go, tom, if youever ever want to go and
experience a ride, I think theTour de Taiwan it's a great,
fully supported ride and it'snot expensive for a tour.
(46:45):
It like 1700 for a single room,which is a bargain for what you
get, because with you know, nota shameless plug for them, but
the uh it's.
It's a really great deal andthe accommodations are fantastic
.
On east side there's hotsprings.
(47:06):
So after you have ridden forseven, eight days, you stop.
The hotels that we stopped athad hot springs so you can get a
nice relaxing recoveryexperience.
We're hopping on the bike thenext day.
Tom Butler (47:24):
It certainly sounds like one of those special trips.
You know just all the differentelements of it, not just Mangos
, which in and of itself is agood reason, but you know all
the other, just the layers of it, the different trains and the
fact that the country is set upso well for bicycles that you
(47:47):
know taiwan is a hub for bicyclemanufacturing and it would just
be interesting to go do thatyou know from what I've read or
people who've ridden in taiwan,it's the hidden gem for cyclists
in the bike touring yeah Ibelieve it's a really, really
great place to ride.
Scott Gruber (48:06):
Gosh, I'm I'm quiet, but my heart is bursting
thinking about planning a ride.
Tom Butler (48:13):
Well, it would be fun and, you know, maybe we'll
have to, you know, figure thatout.
There's so many rides that I'mtrying to figure out how to do.
You know, both in the Statesand all over.
Scott Gruber (48:25):
So you know it's interesting.
I'll plant a seed for you totalk with your wife and daughter
and her husband.
You know a lot of people wereon e-bikes.
Some people started on aregular bike and switched to
e-bikes and so they made itaccessible for anyone.
And you know, although I didthe nine-day ride, they also
have shorter three-day ridesjust on the East Coast.
(48:46):
The pacing for a nine-day rideyou're on the bike all the time.
It'd be nice to do it moreslowly, to have a couple rest
days after four days, have acouple rest days in between the
tour.
It's accessible for anyone whocan be on a bike.
(49:07):
You know, again, there waspeople from 20 to 70, people on
e-bikes and everyone did great.
You know no one, I don't thinkyou know, struggled.
There was some.
You know there was one accident.
A dear friend crashed and hadto drop out, but that was.
You know it was a's done.
(49:27):
A few trips to the Philippines.
Tom Butler (49:48):
And there's always seems to be a number of hours
that is spent in Taipei and soyou know, I think, for her to
expand like what she sees inTaiwan.
I think she'd be reallyinterested in that.
Scott Gruber (50:03):
I couldn't recommend it more.
It's a really, really greatride.
I don't know if I tried toshare some of the photos.
I have some Google photo albumsand I tried to share with you.
If you had a chance to checksome of those out.
I really shouldn't make thempublic, but it's like it's a
very Instagrammy sort of tourCause it's like, you know,
(50:25):
beautiful architecture,beautiful foods, beautiful
people, beautiful locations allalong the way, and you're kind
of in your own group and so youknow you're, you're making
friends with people and I've Ifound the taiwanese were super
friendly and open and welcoming.
(50:45):
I don't think it should be ahard sell.
You know I'll send you the linkto I think it's giant cycling
worldcom, okay, lists all thetours and they do them all year
long and they have, you know,nine day ones to three day ones
to one day one.
You know it's great becausegreat, because I had my GPX and
(51:08):
I had my Strava route for all ofthe touring that I did in
Taiwan, and so I've got, youknow, I also use there's an app
called Relive, okay.
That will create like a 3D mapof the route of any GPX route.
So I used that and pointed at myphotos and it would generate a
whole sort of slideshow for it.
(51:28):
Which is really, which isreally fun that is fun.
Tom Butler (51:32):
Well, scott, I just appreciate so much for you
taking the time to come on andtalk about this, and I am
inspired.
You know I am gonna be lookingto figure out how to get to
Taiwan, along with a lot ofother things I want to do, but
thanks for coming on.
Scott Gruber (51:52):
Hey, tom, I just joined Cycling Over 60 on Strava
just now.
Okay, I wanted to let you knowpart of my personality when I
get into a hobby, I tend to gobroad, okay, and so I've been
listening to a number ofpodcasts on cycling and your
podcast really has meant a lotto me.
(52:13):
You know, the kind of sharingthat you do on your own personal
journey has inspired me to bemore healthy and to take care of
myself and to ride when I'm inmy 70s, and the guests that you
have really tell great tales andthey resonate with me a lot.
So I'm really, really happythat I reached out and rode with
(52:38):
you on the Zwift and we'd hadthe Zoom and had a nice chat
while we were riding togetherand had a nice chat while we
were writing together, and thenyou know that you invited me to
this podcast is like a highlightof my year so far.
Tom Butler (52:51):
Well, that's really cool for you to say, and I
really appreciate that feedbackbecause that's you know, really,
what I want to be about is forpeople to.
I've experienced so muchpositive things for it and I
want other people to as well, sothat's fantastic, thank you
yeah, true, you mean a lot to alot of people.
Scott Gruber (53:09):
Man it's uh, you do, you do some some good stuff.
Thank you so much for thatright attitude thank you.
Tom Butler (53:17):
Well, hopefully we'll get to ride together again
on zwift and and on the zoomand um.
Scott Gruber (53:22):
I'll see you in a couple days.
It's uh, it's uh, what thursdayat three is, usually when you
do your ride 3 pm pacific time.
Tom Butler (53:30):
So, yeah, for sure, looking forward to it.
All right, talk to you later nowthanks, tom scott talked about
taiwan being the hidden gem ofcycling locations.
I can easily see that being thecase.
After hearing him talk abouthis trip With a tour company as
(53:54):
connected with cycling as GiantBike managing the ride, it is
easy to imagine it will continueto be an excellent experience.
The Giant Adventure website,which is the website for their
touring options.
They call Taiwan a cyclingparadise.
It sure seems to me that therewould be a sense of pride on
behalf of the company to giveriders the best experience
(54:15):
possible in their home country.
I'm going to see if we can getsome of Scott's photos in a post
in the Cycling Over 60 StravaClub, so keep an eye open for
those.
Let me again encourage peopleto join the Thursday Zoom call.
You can get an invite to thecall by sending me an email.
My email is in the show notes.
There's also the Cycling Over60 Zwift Thursday ride.
You can access that by joiningthe Cycling Over 60 Zwift Club.
(54:39):
But even if you aren't doingthe Zwift ride, stop by the Zoom
chat and say hello.
They both happen at 3 pmPacific time.
One final reminder about theRails to Trails fundraiser.
Come join in with Team Huffingand Puffing the link and the
password to join the team are inthe show notes.
That is it for this episode,and I hope you get out this week
and enjoy the road, whetheryou're getting pampered on an
(55:01):
organized cycling adventure orwhether you're just out near
your home and remember, age isjust a gear change.
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