April 12, 2025 • 47 mins
For this episode, host Tom Butler dives into the world of Strava apps. Looking for deeper insights into his training, Tom explores some intriguing options beyond the basics. Whether you're a data enthusiast or just curious to learn more, Tom shares a few apps he discovered.
Then, Tom takes listeners along to a meeting with the Tacoma Washington Bicycle Club (TWBC). Tune in as they discuss initiatives for the local Cycling Over Sixty program. Tom presents his view that the bike should be seen as a medical device. The collaboration with TWBC is about building community and staying active on two wheels!
Links
Great America Ride: Team Huffing and Puffing
sportsbackers.org/event/great-american-ride
Password: GAR2025
Beeminder App Video: youtu.be/ILf8yPNSbZY?si=BWrp_d6NJeH5xcK2
Thanks for Joining Me!
Consider becoming a member of the Cycling Over Sixty Strava Club! www.strava.com/clubs/CyclingOverSixty
Cycling Over Sixty is also on Zwift. Look for our Zwift club!
Please send comments, questions and especially content suggestions to me at tom.butler@teleiomedia.com
Follow and comment on Cycling Over Sixty on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cyclingoversixty/
Show music is "Come On Out" by Dan Lebowitz. Find him here : lebomusic.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tom Butler (00:04):
This is the Cycling With 60 podcast, season three,
episode 25.
The bike is a medical deviceand I'm your host, tom Butler.
I'm very motivated by seeingprogress in numbers.
(00:26):
Now, I know many of you are notthis way.
I've talked to a bunch ofpeople that don't like Strava or
other apps that pump outnumbers.
These people often tell me thatthey just love to ride and it
doesn't matter to them whatStrava says.
I can respect that position alot, but that isn't true for me.
I love seeing as much data aspossible.
Lot, but that isn't true for me.
(00:46):
I love seeing as much data aspossible.
So I appreciate Ed fromPennsylvania reaching out to
give me a suggestion aboutseeing Strava data in a
different way.
Ed's message led me to searchfor Strava performance analysis
apps and I ended up going down arabbit hole of apps.
I did find a few that I'minterested in checking out.
Ed recommended an app calledVeloViewer, which said it is the
quote chocolate sauce for yourStrava ice cream.
(01:08):
Okay, veloviewer marketing team, you got me.
It looks like.
Veloviewer gives severalinteresting views of Strava data
, plus some cool end of yearinfographics.
It's likely that I will startusing that app.
They have a free plan, a proplan and a pro plus plan.
I would probably go with thepro plus plan simply because
(01:29):
it's only around 20 pounds or$30 a year and I appreciate the
development that is going intothe app and I want to support it
.
The pro plus plan also promisesa pretty interesting feature
you get a quote high five downat the pub for supporting the
app.
Now I just need to figure out away to get to the pub.
I'm also interested in a coupleof other apps.
(01:50):
One is Strive AI.
I'm not a huge fan of AIworkout assistance currently,
but I'm certainly interested tosee how it's evolving, so I
think I'll be watching Strive AIto see what is happening.
Strive AI has an interestinglegal statement.
You own all your data withStrive AI to see what is
happening.
Strive AI has an interestinglegal statement.
You own all your data withStrive AI.
You grant them a non-exclusiveworldwide license to use that
(02:11):
content, and then that licenseends when the content is deleted
.
The use of our data is just oneof those areas that interests
me about AI.
In the future, I'll probably doanother interview with AI, like
I did in the August 17th 2023episode.
I'll wait on this, though,until there is some significant
advancement in AI technology.
Another app that intrigues me isBeeminder.
(02:32):
It's built as a socialmotivation app.
You give Beeminder a goal andif you fall off pace they charge
you money.
I will put a link to a videoabout Beeminder in the show
notes.
I'm pretty sure I will end upusing Beeminder, but stay tuned
as I dig more into it and seehow it works.
I love to get text messagesfrom listeners, and the text me
(02:53):
link at the top of the podcastdescription is an easy way to do
that, but a quick note on it Idon't think it allows links, so
if you want to send me a link,you probably have to spell it
out.
For example, you can spell outcyclingover60.com as
cyclingover60 and then D-O-T andcom.
If you replace the period withthe D-O-T, I will understand it.
(03:17):
On the topic of motivationalapps, team Huffing and Puffing
is working its way across theVirtual Great American Rail
Trail as part of the GreatAmerican Ride fundraiser.
I'm finding this to be verymotivational.
I'm pretty committed to helpingour team to make progress.
However, huffing and Puffing is24 out of 54 teams Now.
I think it would be awesome tofinish in the top 10.
(03:38):
To do that, I think we wouldneed more riders.
As a team, we've logged 452miles so far, so we have made it
to eastern Washington, becausethe way that we're doing, the
route started on the west coastand we're almost to the Idaho
border.
To break into the top 10, wewould need to have almost double
that amount of miles.
(03:58):
So to do that, I do think wewould need others to join the
team.
For me personally, I'm 99 outof 338 people, so I'd like to
shoot for the top 50.
Now, if you're a fan of Rails toTrails, this is your
opportunity to have some funsupporting them.
The Great American Ride is just$50 to join, which I see as a
(04:19):
really fair amount to supportall the work that Rails to
Trails is doing.
I don't see an end date forjoining, so I think you can
still get in.
For me, it's been a really funway to support the effort to
create a bicycle highway acrossthe US.
I will put a link to the rideand the password to join the
Huffing and Puffing team in theshow notes.
Please consider jumping in andhelping us out.
(04:40):
We still have a long way toride.
I've decided to lock in a datefor the first Cycling Over 60
annual ride.
It will happen on Sunday,september 14th.
There was some news this weekand I think it's really safe to
say the ride is going to startin Puyallup, washington.
I've tried my best to make surethat that time doesn't conflict
with other rides in our area.
I'll be talking a lot moreabout the ride in the next
(05:02):
couple of months.
The ride will be free, butthere won't be managed rest
stops on the ride.
However, there's a lot ofservices around the route we'll
be taking.
I'm still working out what isdifferent about a Cycling Over
60 event.
If you have recommendations,please use the text me link and
share those with me.
One of the biggest aspects ofthe ride is that I want people
to be able to invite a friendthat isn't an avid cyclist,
(05:25):
knowing that they will enjoy theevent.
I am in the process of settingup a website for the ride and I
will share a link as soon as itis up and ready.
The Cycling Over 60 podcastdoesn't make any money and I
(05:46):
never thought that tariffs couldimpact what I do here, but
unfortunately the economic chaosis so great it's even impacting
our little show here.
I had an interview for thisweek set up, but the company
reached out and said they wereswamped with trying to figure
out how to manage the tariffsituation and asked to
reschedule.
Of course I agreed the tariffsituation and asked to
(06:06):
reschedule.
Of course I agreed.
So instead, this week I'mtaking you with me for a meeting
that I had about the localCycling Over 60 program
launching here in Pierce County,washington.
I was invited to present to theboard of the Tacoma Washington
Bicycle Club.
I see TWBC as a vital partnerfor helping build a local
Cycling Over 60 community.
It was the first time I talkedabout the full program and I
shared with them the focus Ihave on the bicycle as a medical
(06:27):
device.
They are a great group ofpeople and I was thrilled to be
welcomed by them.
Here's what I had to say.
So I'm Tom Butler.
I have a Master's of PublicHealth and also a Master's in
Marriage and Family Therapy, andso I got interested in looking
at how social systems changebehavior, and that was kind of
(06:52):
early on in my career.
I got sidetracked from that,but when I was 59 years old I
ended up having several healthissues.
So I decided to do somethingdifferent at 59 years old and
that's kind of how Cycling Over60 got started.
It is a podcast.
It's on basically any podcastmedium you go out to, you can
(07:15):
find Cycling Over 60.
When I started looking at myhealth issues, I was really
looking at a cluster of thingsthat you would call metabolic
syndrome now, or metabolicdysfunction now.
I've always liked cycling.
It'd been about, I don't know,at least 25 years, maybe 30
(07:37):
years, since I've done anyserious cycling.
So you know, the most logicalthing to do is go out and buy a
new bike, which I did, and thatreally that new bike sent me on
a new journey.
I rode it.
There's a fundraiser cyclingfor kids' cancer.
I did that fundraiser.
(07:57):
So I was trying to put in asmany miles as I could in a month
and I was pretty surprised athow much I could do and so I
decided I'd always wanted toSeattle, to Portland.
I'd never done it and I figuredif I was ever going to do it I
needed to do something about it.
So I decided to train to do STP.
(08:20):
I felt like there was a smallchance that I would actually get
enough shape to do it.
But it was a good goal and Ikind of needed that challenge to
get me out the door and on thebike, I ended up doing STP.
Probably the main reason I didSTP is that my son-in-law said,
(08:42):
hey, I'll ride it with you, andso I was on the back of his
wheel for the 206 miles of theSTP the first year that I did it
, and so I did it at 60 yearsold for the first time, and that
was really the genesis.
The podcast was meant to followmy journey to try to do the STP,
(09:03):
and that was the first seasonof the podcast.
I'm now in season three of thepodcast, but it really was
helpful.
I knew I was going to haveconversations with people that
knew a lot more about cyclingand training and everything than
me, and so I wanted to kind ofget those conversations out
(09:24):
there for people to hear.
In the process, I discovered acommunity, and so Cycling Over
60 is a community.
It's a small community, but I'mjust a lot of great people and
I really enjoy it.
I'm at something like 103episodes or something like that
(09:44):
now.
So it's been really goodbecause I've again, I've had
conversations with some reallyawesome people and really
inspirational people.
What happened last fall was Istarted thinking about when I
launched season three, I startedthinking about how cycling over
(10:04):
60 could be something more thanjust a podcast and I really, by
(10:25):
having a lot of conversationswith people, I really got
interested in the bicycle as amedical device.
You know we think about cyclingfor recreation, for
transportation, but I reallybelieve that the bicycle should
be seen as a medical device andI think that's linked heavily to
activity being medically vital,and so that's really kind of
the genesis.
And for me, diabetes is an issue.
(10:46):
Now when you talk aboutdiabetes we mostly think about
blood glucose.
That is, diabetes is looking atthe level of glucose in our
blood.
But really that glucose levelis a late indicator of issues
and you can have metabolicissues long before it starts
(11:07):
showing up in an A1C.
There's a physician by the nameof Gerald Shulman and he's a
researcher at Yale looks atdiabetes.
His opinion is that 50% ofpeople are insulin resistant.
So 50% of people have adifficulty react their cells
(11:29):
reacting to insulin so thatthey're getting glucose out of
their blood.
And this really comes fromresearch from college students
and he's saying in thatpopulation you start seeing
insulin resistance.
It first shows up in muscletissue.
It's a pretty dramatic thing tothink about that.
(11:49):
You've got college studentsthat are already showing signs
of insulin resistance.
So his comment is that physicalactivity is vital to not
experience the consequences ofinsulin resistance, even when
you're as young as 20 years old.
(12:10):
For me, I have an issue where mypancreas has been partially
destroyed by something, and so Ionly have about 20% of
functioning of my pancreas.
So, for me, everything that I dois focused on how can I make my
cells as sensitive to insulinas possible, and so that's my
(12:31):
journey.
Again, the bicycle, to me, isthe primary medical device that
I have in order to do that.
Every time I go out for a bikeride, it keeps me from someday
having to do dialysis orsomething that's a consequence
of my glucose getting out ofwhack.
But also, you know, obesity.
(12:52):
You know, obviously.
We know obesity is a big issue,and the visceral fat is the
biggest importance as far asobesity is concerned.
And if you're not aware of thatterm visceral fat it's really
important to find out what thatis.
A bicycle when we start lookingat obesity and we start looking
at fat, we really want to burnfat, and so a bicycle is really
(13:13):
great because we can vary theresistance, we can really dial
in fat to get in a fat burningmode.
I'm curious has everybody herebeen cycling for like all your
life?
Bob Myrick - TWBC (13:27):
any, anybody take it up later on, or I used
to bicycle when I was a kid,okay, but for many years in
between then and what about 10years ago?
Tom Butler (13:38):
okay.
Okay, you know I didn't do alot of bicycle.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (13:40):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (13:40):
Okay, until Ray talked me into it.
Okay, cool.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (13:43):
Well, fantastic, good for Ray.
I started about 40 years ago,when I was in my 40s.
Okay, okay, nice 40 something.
Tom Butler (13:52):
Yeah, so the earlier we start and the more we stay
with it, then that changes a lotof things For me, starting at
59, then there's the impact ofthat, and so that variable
intensity is something that wasvery important to me as I
(14:12):
started out and has continued tobe important.
Cardiovascular health I won'tgo into a lot of this because I
think a lot of people know kindof this is.
A bicycle can impact thesethings.
But atherosclerosis there's alot that we're learning about
the buildup of plaque that hasto do with maintaining really
(14:33):
healthy energy utilization.
So if you have high glucoselevels, then you're at risk for
atherosclerosis and so reallyit's a big part of it is energy
utilization.
Again, the bicycle is excellentfor that.
One of the things that if you domuch reading on health you hear
a lot about is strength as ameasure of longevity, and so I
(14:58):
just put a little blurb in herefrom a study the risk of dying
during the study period droppedby 30%, so that's a pretty
massive outcome, and that was115,000 people ages 65 and older
.
If you're interested, you cansee the reference here to that.
(15:20):
But there's just no questionnow that getting stronger is
linked to longevity, and I'lltalk a little bit more about
that later.
Immune function super important.
You know when we talk about canthe bicycle impact health?
Is bicycle a medical device,which I argue it is then
(15:44):
obviously we can look at thenetherlands and say, okay, this
is a culture that is does a lotof biking.
Does that show up as far ashealth outcomes are concerned?
And so this is another study.
There's at the end there's alink to the study.
So time spent cycling was about75 minutes per week for Dutch
(16:05):
adults age 20 to 90.
So that's pretty fantastic.
The level of cycling was fairlystable over adulthood and
reached its peak around 65 to 70years of age.
It'd be wonderful to have thatand then start a decline after
80 years, which I'd like to seethat not happen.
(16:28):
And this is a little bit olderof a study I think it's 2015.
So I don't know what thingshave changed, but in a
population of 18 million, anestimated 6,500 deaths are
prevented annually as a resultof cycling.
That's what they estimated,which would be a translation to
the US population to 108,000deaths prevented each year.
(16:52):
In Pierce County we'd belooking at 335 deaths prevented.
We just took up cycling andstayed with it, and that's
compared to 87 traffic deaths inthe county.
So it's a significant impact asfar as preventing death is
concerned.
And then there was an estimatedin 2015 that the Netherlands
(17:17):
saved 19 million euros a year inhealth care costs.
So that was more than a dollarper person a year.
That's just talking abouthealth care spending.
So, again, taking on the bicycleas a medical device definitely
see an impact in the health ofthe population.
So e-bikes, of course.
That brings an element thatpeople can ride a bike.
(17:40):
And again, low intensity Indoortraining, I think is an
important part of the picturebecause there are people that
may be starting out.
Being on an indoor trainer isactually safer.
Joint health is anotherimportant thing.
The Cycling Against Hip PainProgram of the UK is a six-week
exercise and educationaltreatment pathway for people
(18:01):
with hip osteoarthritis, and sowhat they found is there's
massive improvement in hip painand also surgery avoidance, with
people cycling.
And then also knee recovery,and I'm thinking we've all kind
of heard stories about peoplealleviating knee pains through
cycling.
My knee has to recover after Icycle.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (18:23):
Oh, okay, okay.
Tom Butler (18:25):
Well, that's an interesting thing we'll talk
about in a bit.
Brain health exercise promotesthe expression of brain-derived
neurotropic factor, so actuallya factor that increases brain
activity.
And then again, balance is animportant part of staying
healthy longer.
Really interesting thingshappening with Parkinson's and
(18:47):
cycling, and then emotionalhealth, depression, stress
management and then alsobuilding social networks.
And one of the things that I doon Zwift is I do a Cycling Over
60 group ride every Thursdayand it's a way that I can
actually ride with people thataren't in the local area, and I
think that there's a lot ofthings that can be done through
(19:10):
that.
So that's kind of my premise.
As far as why I think thebicycle needs to be considered a
medical device, this came outof a lot of conversations that I
had with the podcast, withpeople, healthcare professionals
.
Exercise being medicine issomething that you hear more and
(19:31):
more, and so the bike as anexercise device I think is
extremely effective device.
I think is extremely effective.
What I decided to do was, inthe, to move cycling the cycling
over 60 community forward wasto actually build local cycling
over 60 communities.
(19:51):
I'm in Pierce County, and so itmade a lot of sense for me to
launch the first cycling over 60community here in Pierce County
and there's some reasons forthat.
One, building real lifeconnections are really valuable
for success.
You talked about Ray, you know,getting you going and that's
(20:14):
that real life connection that Ithink is really helpful to get
people going.
And then support from localexperienced cyclists.
So safe routes, encouragement.
Erin I interviewed two episodesago and her story is great.
She did like 30, she did a 39day trip in India.
There were 30 days of riding.
(20:34):
I think she ended up ridingmaybe 26 of the 30 days.
She hasn't been cycling thatlong.
She started, she took it upduring COVID but she showed up
one day in Eugene.
There's a cycling club calledGears, the greater Eugene area,
something cyclists and theyreally embraced her.
(20:56):
She was really inexperiencedand they really drew her in.
She was really inexperiencedand they really drew her in and
took care of her and I thoughtit was such a fantastic example
of a bike club really embracingsomeone new.
I think another important thingabout cycling locally is support
from county and city healthpromotion efforts.
It is well known that activityis really important for a
(21:17):
healthy community and by doingsomething local then you get to,
you get to plug into thoseefforts and local medical
expertise you talked about.
My knee has to recover after Iride, but that's something you
have to overcome when you rideand so it's helpful to have
local health professionals thatcan say, okay, this is when we
(21:40):
need to take that seriously.
You know, that's just asituation of you know your body
and what you have to do for you.
You know, or somebody elsemight not have to to strengthen
the structures in a way or touse athletic tape in a way to
help with tracking or whateveryou know how those health
(22:04):
professionals that can be tappedinto.
And then also just from someonethat's new, you know, like me
when I was 59 and I'm like, okay, I'm going to start writing a
lot, just to sit down with mydoctor and say what are the
things that I should be thinkingabout when I do that?
So components of a localPsyching Over 60 program is
(22:27):
group rides, of course, andgroup rides that have a
component for people that canshow up, who are really
inexperienced, not very strong,and feel really welcomed and
there's something for them to do, even if maybe some group rides
you're only going out for twoand a half miles and turning
around and coming back, you know, but that there's a, there's a
(22:48):
way.
Um, the group rides.
There are meeting the needs forpeople that want to go out and
you know 16, 17 miles and ouraverage pace for you know 50
miles but then also for peoplethat want to go really light New
Rider Education.
One of the collaborators herein Tacoma is Second Cycle and so
(23:11):
they do new rider educationwith high school students.
But we're working togetherbeing able to do new rider
education with older riders,which I think you know.
One of the thing is how do youidentify new riders?
How do you identify people,because I don't think people
tend to self-identify that Ineed help learning how to ride,
(23:31):
how to choose a bicycle, how tochoose a bicycle that fits, how
to choose a bicycle for what youwant to use it for, how to find
a bike fitter all those thingsabout that entry into making
sure that they're as comfortableas possible on a bike that they
choose and then interface withthe local medical community so
that we can say you know, beforeyou get started, it might be
(23:53):
good to talk to this person.
Also, I believe that thepotential of really having
referrals from local medicalprofessionals.
My doctor loved what I didbecause, you know, I'm going
along in a trajectory of gettingworse and worse and worse and
then all of a sudden, boom I,that trajectory totally changed
(24:15):
and he's really excited thatthat happened.
That's atypical, I mean.
It definitely happens.
People choose to get in shape.
But really one of the reasonswhy the focus on cycling over 60
and what I say is that cyclingover 60 really starts at 55.
(24:36):
Start at 55 and get kind of upto speed so that you can stay
cycling over 60.
And obviously it'd be great ifpeople started younger.
But I think there is kind of asituation where people need to
see problems, you know, and theyneed like me, you know, and
I've have a lot of education inhealth promotion and I had to
(24:57):
get to the point where, you know, I could no longer say okay,
this will reverse itself, youknow, easily I have to take some
dramatic changes.
And so the medical communitythere's, they're interfacing
with a lot of people that areolder that could really use to
get on a bike.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (25:14):
Did your doctor give you a prescription?
Did he tell you that it wouldbe wise to get out and exercise?
Tom Butler (25:22):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm thinking probably around35, 40.
Was the first time my doctors Ididn't have that doctor at the
time, but doctors started sayingyou know, activity is going to
be key for you in the future.
And I probably gained weightevery year, at least starting at
(25:45):
35.
You know, I put on a littleweight every year all the way up
to 59.
I was at about 240, 240 pounds.
Now I'm down about 200.
I'm looking to go down lighterthan that, but there's a kind of
a specific approach I want touse to do that, because I'm
trying to maintain as much leanmuscle mass as possible.
(26:06):
But yeah, so my doctor wassaying you need to be active.
But he got the point where itwas like okay, I've said this to
him like 40 times, he's eithergoing to do it or he's not.
And again it really took medeciding okay, this is the time
time to get it done.
It was interesting Cause Ididn't do it like right when
(26:28):
COVID hit, which would have beena perfect time to do it.
You know, I still was, waswaiting, I don't know, for some
magic or something to happen.
I'm not sure what it was, butagain it fine, I'm like okay,
this is this is it.
I got to do something about it.
Another thing about a localpresence is that we can do an
annual cycling or 60 ride, and Ithink there can.
There are quite a number ofpeople that, like me, having
(26:54):
that goal, that they want towork towards that.
That's going to be helpful, butsupporting that in the right
way and making sure the right isdone in the right way.
I think it's 14th it's either13th or 14th.
(27:14):
I think 14th is a Sunday setaside to do the first annual
ride.
One thing that I think is vital,one thing that I think research
is showing, is that cyclingalone is not enough.
You have to build upper bodystrength.
So I've been talking to thepeople's community center about
(27:35):
having a class there.
It's really close to cycling,or 60, I'm sorry, really close
to second cycle, and so, uh,we're, we're set up.
Once we can generate someinterest.
Do some some strength trainingfor cyclists.
It would specifically bestrength, strength training for
cyclists with the upper body,but also how can you build your
legs up to make cycling better?
(27:57):
And resistance training.
Some health seminars you know Ifound health professionals
pretty generous and veryinterested in this, and so,
again, part of connecting to themedical community is getting
some people to come in and talkabout different things that are
important to stay healthy andstay, keep joints and everything
(28:18):
in good working order and allof that.
Um, cycling with a without agehas anybody ever heard of
cycling without age?
but uh, no that is a programjust that I love, and that is,
you put someone who has mobilityissues in a seat on the front
(28:40):
of a bicycle.
They're trikes andbattery-operated and you take
them out for a ride.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (28:45):
They do that in a squim.
Tom Butler (28:47):
Okay, yeah.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (28:48):
Squim Washington yeah.
Tom Butler (28:49):
So Elysio here has four bikes.
Really, they're really excitedabout a local community taking
that on.
Clem Washington yeah, so Elysiohere has four bikes.
They're really excited about alocal community taking that on.
And so that's what I'vecommitted to help find pilots
for those and to come up withsome good ways to do that.
I could talk endlessly aboutthat, but I won't.
But an opportunity to get peopleout and about and get some
(29:11):
cycling in, that normallywouldn't be the process, and the
last thing that I would talkabout is that I want to be have
this focused on being aco-generate process which is
connecting generations together.
The nice thing about SecondCycle is that they have young
(29:34):
cyclists that they're workingwith, and so to really make this
a cross-generational programand find ways of whether it's
trips or whatever weekly rides,but that we really are bonding
people of different agestogether.
I think that's.
There is an organization calledCogenerate.
(29:56):
I haven't reached out to themyet it's one of the next things
I'm going to be doing but Ithink that they're going to
really like this project as aCogenerate project.
(30:22):
The reason that I'm talkingabout this is that I would love
for Tacoma Washington BicycleClub to embrace this and to, you
know, being aware that peoplecould be showing up to group
rides new people to be, you know, looking at different ways to
bring your knowledge aboutcycling to people that don't
(30:43):
have a lot of knowledge aboutcycling, and just, you know, as
a club, really, in visualizingwhat does it look like to do
things that will specificallykeep people cycling later on in
life, the you know, like theannual ride, to have some people
being willing to participate inthe annual ride, maybe a
(31:03):
sweepers or um to help navigate.
For, for people that aren'tfamiliar with the, with the
trail, um, the trail is prettyeasy, but's you know the roads
around Enumclaw.
It's just a pretty basic routewhen you get up on the plateau,
but you know things like that.
I think you guys have the.
(31:23):
There's a ride you do on theplateau and I'm blanking on the
name of it right now it's calledthe Headwater Century.
Headwater Century Do you havethat scheduled for 2025?
I think it might be the weekbefore.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (31:36):
It will be in .
TWBC Member (31:37):
September 8th.
Tom Butler (31:38):
September 8th yeah so that's the week before what I
was thinking about doing this,so this isn't locked in stone
that day.
TWBC Member (31:47):
Sorry.
September 6th September 6thSaturday.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (31:51):
Okay, so this would be the next Sunday
September 6th Saturday Okay, sothis would be the next Sunday.
Your program is very similar towhat we've been doing for the
last 50 years.
Okay, because we cycle for whatis it?
Transportation, fitness orhealth, transportation, health
(32:11):
and the other thing that I can'trecall right at the moment, but
it's on one of our businesscards, on our logo.
TWBC Member (32:19):
Recreation.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (32:21):
Recreation, transportation, recreation and
health, both environmentalhealth and personal health.
So that's been our mantra forlike 50 years now.
Tom Butler (32:34):
Yeah, that's why I think there's a really easy
merger about what we're tryingto do.
The only thing that I'm goingto be looking at doing is
reaching out again to healthcare professionals.
When I talk about the bicycleas a medical device, then it
really is those, the people withthe county, that are saying how
(32:56):
can we improve the healthoutcomes?
How can we specifically, like,improve obesity?
Bob Myrick - TWBC (33:03):
We actually some of you guys might not know
this, but we had a programcalled Car Last Commute for 18
years, okay, and it wassponsored by Pierce County Parks
and the hospitals and the phonecompanies and about 12 or 15
(33:24):
people sitting around the table.
Yeah, and that program went onfor 18 years and then when the
one individual retired from thecounty, the program kind of went
away.
It had a long history and a lotof people were participating in
that program.
Tom Butler (33:46):
Yeah, and I think that those programs you know I'm
a real believer that thoseprograms need to keep going.
I believe active transportationas a focus from county, city,
state, nationally, whatever, Ithink that those programs need
to keep going.
I think there's another layeron top of that and I think
MultiCare is a good examplebecause they have programs that
(34:08):
they do that are focused oncommunity development, and so I
think having funding into thoseprograms are great.
But also there's elements oflike, for example, the hip
health program.
That's like a specific thingthat a bicycle offers that is
(34:28):
unique, and a lot of thatprogram in the uk is about
stationary cycling, right.
So you, you know there need tobe this element stationary cycle
that some people transitioninto the road or trails or
whatever, but um, but that's alittle different thing.
Like multi-care sponsoring, likethese community development
things are a little differentthan them saying, okay, this,
(34:50):
the bicycle is a medical device,is something that we want to
advocate for and that, to me, isdone a little bit differently
than like a safe routes for toschools program or other things
like that.
Or even like they, they heavilysponsor, um, the rider
education program through secondcycle, but that's a little bit
(35:12):
of a different focus of on thecommunity, rather than saying
there's this medical device,that we're going to start trying
to get people to see thebicycle differently, as
something that can save theirlife what you're doing is kind
of very parallel to what we'vebeen doing through at least
(35:35):
eight or more years with thosegroups yeah, and I think that's
you know again why I wanted to.
You know, this is like my firststop as far as talking to
community organizations.
I mean, I started, uh, workingwith second cycle, but the, the
bicycle club, I think, is anabsolute vital entity for this
(35:55):
focus on getting people cyclinglater on in life.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (36:00):
As you work your program.
It would be good to kind ofmesh with us, because we have a
senior cycle on Monday, tuesday,wednesday, Thursday and
Saturday.
We have, like, another littlegroup that puts on the Tuesday
night ride.
So that's going on right now.
Tom Butler (36:21):
I think that's exactly it.
That's exactly what I'd likeyou to be open to, you know, is
that you know I can recommend topeople as I run into them hey,
go on and look at the calendarand and you'll see the different
rides, and then it's just if weget, you know, like five people
(36:41):
at a time that are like youknow, I could really use some
additional advice from someonewho's an experienced cyclist,
you know, like on safe routesand stuff like that, then that
might be able to be integratedin like as part of a ride, or
maybe you know something thathappens in addition to a ride,
(37:02):
or show up early for a ride,let's have a conversation and
then go out on a ride and youknow, and maybe a pace group.
That's a little.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (37:13):
And I could do that slower pace group In the
past we've had, like we call it, a beginner ride and we've had
very little turnout.
We've tried that over the last30 years like a beginner and I
don't know why, but it's.
Maybe people are afraid to comeout or something, but the
(37:34):
turnout is usually rather lowand I can't explain why.
Tom Butler (37:40):
I think it's possible and I can't say that I
know why, but I think it'spossible that again, it's hard
for someone to self-identify forsomething like that.
TWBC Member (37:50):
Don't have any real problem with promoting
bicycling for health.
That's a wonderful thing.
I will say that I think youneed to be careful about calling
it a medical device, because Ithink there's a legal term for
that and I don't know what it is, but I think there's a legal
(38:12):
term for that description.
But there are lots ofalternative words.
You might want to start I can'ttell exactly where you are on
wanting to bring people on boardbut you might ride a few times
on the Thursday ride, which ismostly retired people frequent,
(38:37):
all over 60.
And and see how that works forfor you and to ride with them,
and then begin to invite peoplein your community to ride on
Thursday.
Tom Butler (38:51):
So let me.
Let me talk about both thosethings, because I think you're
right to question why I'm usingthe term medical device.
But I'm specifically being abit provocative there.
You could argue that you wouldhave to get FDA approval for a
medical device.
I mean, that's an argument youcould make, but I think that for
(39:14):
me, like just coming out andsaying I believe it's a medical
device, I don't care if youbelieve it is or not, but for me
it's been a medical device.
I'm willing to be a bitprovocative that way Because I
want to be very clear.
I want people to have a veryclear picture in their mind that
I'm talking about somethingthat is at a different level and
(39:40):
I feel very comfortable ifanybody questions on me.
This is all the reasons.
I'll give you all the researchof what leads me to call it a
medical device, in addition tomy own personal experience.
I think it's a good thing tosay and I'm not saying that the
bike club should talk about itas a medical device.
I'm just saying is that I'm outtalking to doctors.
I'm saying, really, when welook at the bicycle, it's a
(40:03):
medical device.
And the doctors are like you'reabsolutely right, it's a
medical intervention.
Until the FDA asks me to stopdoing that, I'll probably do it.
I think you're only going to getin trouble if you try to sell a
bike.
I think that's right.
Or if you try to sell a specificbike, like bought a bike from
the bike shop and sold it as a$1,000 markup because it's a
(40:26):
medical device, or getreimbursement from your health
provider for your insurance.
But the truth of the matter isI'm going to be pushing that
direction as much as I can.
So I won't go into a big longstory about work that I did
before as far as health clubmemberships and insurance
reimbursement for health carememberships, but I'm going to be
(40:49):
pushing like where's the healthcare system reimbursement if
you go out and buy a bike?
So that's a very complicatedconversation to have.
TWBC Member (41:02):
I've also been a part of several programs over
the years that promoted physicalactivity in various ways and we
worked with physicians, and Iheard you mention this early on.
We worked with physicians toget them to do prescriptions.
I would also say that physicaltherapists would be a good
(41:28):
partnering, supportingprofession for what you're
talking about, partly because ofthe types of physical activity.
And a third thing that I wantto mention is that there's a
growing body of research thatlooks at women's training on
(41:52):
bicycles, and women need totrain a little bit differently
than men have traditionallytrained.
So it's a growing body ofresearch very helpful for women.
Tom Butler (42:04):
I think that's a fantastic observation and I
think that's one of those thingsthat taking more of a medical
approach.
Now in Pierce County, both PLUand what's the other place, ups
they both have kinesiologyprograms and you know, but those
(42:25):
are programs that I think weshould also be tying into
specifically to have people kindof advising on those things in
helping to build programs andconnecting with their graduates
and building programs that arereally specific to different
people's needs.
There's, you know, some peoplehave knee issues.
(42:45):
You know there's all kinds ofrehab issues.
So there's, you know again, andthe difference between men and
women I think is an importantdifference as well, but you know
those.
And the difference between menand women, I think, is an
important difference as well,but you know, those are all
kinds of things that need to betaken into account, which is
again part of what Cycling Over60 is meant to do is to pull in
the local experts.
The idea is to have othercommunities and then be pulling
(43:18):
information from othercommunities around and their
connections with universitiesand and providers to really come
up with best practices.
One of the comments was aboutparticipating in rides, and you
know that's something I'mdefinitely going to be doing.
Thursdays is kind of tough forme because I do the Zwift ride
on Thursdays but, um, when itgets hot I'm not going to be
doing the Zwift ride at threeo'clock in the afternoon.
(43:39):
The other thing is that,because of my blood sugar issues
, riding the afternoon is ismore beneficial for me than
writing in the morning.
But yeah, you know, I'lldefinitely be um hitting the
rides and the rides anddefinitely for me, if you guys
are okay with it, this is what Iwill do is I will meet someone
(44:01):
and I'll talk to them aboutcycling and what it's done for
me and then I will say let's getyou connected to the rides that
are going on the bike club andyou know kind of be funneling
the people in.
Because, again, I think thelocal bicycle club is absolutely
(44:22):
vital.
Just like I talked about Erin,when she showed up at Gears, you
know, they welcomed her in andyou know.
And then, three years yearslater, she's biking all over
India, and part of it wasbecause of that community that
embraced her.
And then also there is thisdesire that I have.
(44:44):
I mean, part of this is just adesire to see cycling more
popular.
So when I do SCP this year, Iwill have probably four
20-year-olds that will be goingwith me, and so that's another
thing about the social supportthat I have to go out cycling.
(45:05):
How do we get people tounderstand that cycling as a
fitness program also?
Bring young people along withyou, bring your family members
along with you so they cansupport you.
You all want to get healthy andas a family, if you're getting
healthier together, it's better.
So the other thing is to funnelwhole groups into the bike club
(45:28):
as well.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (45:30):
Well, thank you so much.
Yeah, well, thank you forhaving me Really appreciate you.
Tom Butler (45:33):
Yeah, well, thank you for having me Really
appreciate you.
Yeah, you heard a littlepushback at the meeting about me
calling the bicycle a medicaldevice.
I didn't really see that ascriticism, just somebody wanting
to make sure I'm getting thingsright.
As I said then, I hope it is alittle provocative when I call
(45:56):
the bicycle a medical device,because I want to provoke
healthcare providers and othersto see the bike this way Again.
I believe if you can say thatexercise is medicine, then I
think the bike needs to be seenas a medical device.
There is a site with the URLexerciseismedicineorg.
It's a site by ACSM, theAmerican College of Sports
Medicine.
(46:16):
The site includes an Rx forHealth section.
In this section, acsm providesessential guidelines on exercise
for sedentary individuals andthose with various chronic
diseases and medical conditionsand medical conditions.
So I think when you're giving aprescription for activity as
medicine, then it is logicalthat the bike is a medical
device and a perfect device forcarrying out these prescriptions
(46:39):
.
I'm looking forward to havingmany more discussions about the
bicycle as a medical device.
I love it that partners likeTacoma Washington Bicycle Club
are coming together to seeCycling Over 60 become a local
program.
I believe it's just thebeginning of something really
special here.
Whether you are cycling becauseof some health condition or
just out enjoying the world atthe pace of a bicycle, I know
(47:00):
you are getting a lot of benefitfrom it.
And remember, age is just agear change.
This is the Cycling With 60 podcast, season three,
episode 25.
The bike is a medical deviceand I'm your host, tom Butler.
I'm very motivated by seeingprogress in numbers.
(00:26):
Now, I know many of you are notthis way.
I've talked to a bunch ofpeople that don't like Strava or
other apps that pump outnumbers.
These people often tell me thatthey just love to ride and it
doesn't matter to them whatStrava says.
I can respect that position alot, but that isn't true for me.
I love seeing as much data aspossible.
Lot, but that isn't true for me.
(00:46):
I love seeing as much data aspossible.
So I appreciate Ed fromPennsylvania reaching out to
give me a suggestion aboutseeing Strava data in a
different way.
Ed's message led me to searchfor Strava performance analysis
apps and I ended up going down arabbit hole of apps.
I did find a few that I'minterested in checking out.
Ed recommended an app calledVeloViewer, which said it is the
quote chocolate sauce for yourStrava ice cream.
(01:08):
Okay, veloviewer marketing team, you got me.
It looks like.
Veloviewer gives severalinteresting views of Strava data
, plus some cool end of yearinfographics.
It's likely that I will startusing that app.
They have a free plan, a proplan and a pro plus plan.
I would probably go with thepro plus plan simply because
(01:29):
it's only around 20 pounds or$30 a year and I appreciate the
development that is going intothe app and I want to support it
.
The pro plus plan also promisesa pretty interesting feature
you get a quote high five downat the pub for supporting the
app.
Now I just need to figure out away to get to the pub.
I'm also interested in a coupleof other apps.
(01:50):
One is Strive AI.
I'm not a huge fan of AIworkout assistance currently,
but I'm certainly interested tosee how it's evolving, so I
think I'll be watching Strive AIto see what is happening.
Strive AI has an interestinglegal statement.
You own all your data withStrive AI to see what is
happening.
Strive AI has an interestinglegal statement.
You own all your data withStrive AI.
You grant them a non-exclusiveworldwide license to use that
(02:11):
content, and then that licenseends when the content is deleted
.
The use of our data is just oneof those areas that interests
me about AI.
In the future, I'll probably doanother interview with AI, like
I did in the August 17th 2023episode.
I'll wait on this, though,until there is some significant
advancement in AI technology.
Another app that intrigues me isBeeminder.
(02:32):
It's built as a socialmotivation app.
You give Beeminder a goal andif you fall off pace they charge
you money.
I will put a link to a videoabout Beeminder in the show
notes.
I'm pretty sure I will end upusing Beeminder, but stay tuned
as I dig more into it and seehow it works.
I love to get text messagesfrom listeners, and the text me
(02:53):
link at the top of the podcastdescription is an easy way to do
that, but a quick note on it Idon't think it allows links, so
if you want to send me a link,you probably have to spell it
out.
For example, you can spell outcyclingover60.com as
cyclingover60 and then D-O-T andcom.
If you replace the period withthe D-O-T, I will understand it.
(03:17):
On the topic of motivationalapps, team Huffing and Puffing
is working its way across theVirtual Great American Rail
Trail as part of the GreatAmerican Ride fundraiser.
I'm finding this to be verymotivational.
I'm pretty committed to helpingour team to make progress.
However, huffing and Puffing is24 out of 54 teams Now.
I think it would be awesome tofinish in the top 10.
(03:38):
To do that, I think we wouldneed more riders.
As a team, we've logged 452miles so far, so we have made it
to eastern Washington, becausethe way that we're doing, the
route started on the west coastand we're almost to the Idaho
border.
To break into the top 10, wewould need to have almost double
that amount of miles.
(03:58):
So to do that, I do think wewould need others to join the
team.
For me personally, I'm 99 outof 338 people, so I'd like to
shoot for the top 50.
Now, if you're a fan of Rails toTrails, this is your
opportunity to have some funsupporting them.
The Great American Ride is just$50 to join, which I see as a
(04:19):
really fair amount to supportall the work that Rails to
Trails is doing.
I don't see an end date forjoining, so I think you can
still get in.
For me, it's been a really funway to support the effort to
create a bicycle highway acrossthe US.
I will put a link to the rideand the password to join the
Huffing and Puffing team in theshow notes.
Please consider jumping in andhelping us out.
(04:40):
We still have a long way toride.
I've decided to lock in a datefor the first Cycling Over 60
annual ride.
It will happen on Sunday,september 14th.
There was some news this weekand I think it's really safe to
say the ride is going to startin Puyallup, washington.
I've tried my best to make surethat that time doesn't conflict
with other rides in our area.
I'll be talking a lot moreabout the ride in the next
(05:02):
couple of months.
The ride will be free, butthere won't be managed rest
stops on the ride.
However, there's a lot ofservices around the route we'll
be taking.
I'm still working out what isdifferent about a Cycling Over
60 event.
If you have recommendations,please use the text me link and
share those with me.
One of the biggest aspects ofthe ride is that I want people
to be able to invite a friendthat isn't an avid cyclist,
(05:25):
knowing that they will enjoy theevent.
I am in the process of settingup a website for the ride and I
will share a link as soon as itis up and ready.
The Cycling Over 60 podcastdoesn't make any money and I
(05:46):
never thought that tariffs couldimpact what I do here, but
unfortunately the economic chaosis so great it's even impacting
our little show here.
I had an interview for thisweek set up, but the company
reached out and said they wereswamped with trying to figure
out how to manage the tariffsituation and asked to
reschedule.
Of course I agreed the tariffsituation and asked to
(06:06):
reschedule.
Of course I agreed.
So instead, this week I'mtaking you with me for a meeting
that I had about the localCycling Over 60 program
launching here in Pierce County,washington.
I was invited to present to theboard of the Tacoma Washington
Bicycle Club.
I see TWBC as a vital partnerfor helping build a local
Cycling Over 60 community.
It was the first time I talkedabout the full program and I
shared with them the focus Ihave on the bicycle as a medical
(06:27):
device.
They are a great group ofpeople and I was thrilled to be
welcomed by them.
Here's what I had to say.
So I'm Tom Butler.
I have a Master's of PublicHealth and also a Master's in
Marriage and Family Therapy, andso I got interested in looking
at how social systems changebehavior, and that was kind of
(06:52):
early on in my career.
I got sidetracked from that,but when I was 59 years old I
ended up having several healthissues.
So I decided to do somethingdifferent at 59 years old and
that's kind of how Cycling Over60 got started.
It is a podcast.
It's on basically any podcastmedium you go out to, you can
(07:15):
find Cycling Over 60.
When I started looking at myhealth issues, I was really
looking at a cluster of thingsthat you would call metabolic
syndrome now, or metabolicdysfunction now.
I've always liked cycling.
It'd been about, I don't know,at least 25 years, maybe 30
(07:37):
years, since I've done anyserious cycling.
So you know, the most logicalthing to do is go out and buy a
new bike, which I did, and thatreally that new bike sent me on
a new journey.
I rode it.
There's a fundraiser cyclingfor kids' cancer.
I did that fundraiser.
(07:57):
So I was trying to put in asmany miles as I could in a month
and I was pretty surprised athow much I could do and so I
decided I'd always wanted toSeattle, to Portland.
I'd never done it and I figuredif I was ever going to do it I
needed to do something about it.
So I decided to train to do STP.
(08:20):
I felt like there was a smallchance that I would actually get
enough shape to do it.
But it was a good goal and Ikind of needed that challenge to
get me out the door and on thebike, I ended up doing STP.
Probably the main reason I didSTP is that my son-in-law said,
(08:42):
hey, I'll ride it with you, andso I was on the back of his
wheel for the 206 miles of theSTP the first year that I did it
, and so I did it at 60 yearsold for the first time, and that
was really the genesis.
The podcast was meant to followmy journey to try to do the STP,
(09:03):
and that was the first seasonof the podcast.
I'm now in season three of thepodcast, but it really was
helpful.
I knew I was going to haveconversations with people that
knew a lot more about cyclingand training and everything than
me, and so I wanted to kind ofget those conversations out
(09:24):
there for people to hear.
In the process, I discovered acommunity, and so Cycling Over
60 is a community.
It's a small community, but I'mjust a lot of great people and
I really enjoy it.
I'm at something like 103episodes or something like that
(09:44):
now.
So it's been really goodbecause I've again, I've had
conversations with some reallyawesome people and really
inspirational people.
What happened last fall was Istarted thinking about when I
launched season three, I startedthinking about how cycling over
(10:04):
60 could be something more thanjust a podcast and I really, by
(10:25):
having a lot of conversationswith people, I really got
interested in the bicycle as amedical device.
You know we think about cyclingfor recreation, for
transportation, but I reallybelieve that the bicycle should
be seen as a medical device andI think that's linked heavily to
activity being medically vital,and so that's really kind of
the genesis.
And for me, diabetes is an issue.
(10:46):
Now when you talk aboutdiabetes we mostly think about
blood glucose.
That is, diabetes is looking atthe level of glucose in our
blood.
But really that glucose levelis a late indicator of issues
and you can have metabolicissues long before it starts
(11:07):
showing up in an A1C.
There's a physician by the nameof Gerald Shulman and he's a
researcher at Yale looks atdiabetes.
His opinion is that 50% ofpeople are insulin resistant.
So 50% of people have adifficulty react their cells
(11:29):
reacting to insulin so thatthey're getting glucose out of
their blood.
And this really comes fromresearch from college students
and he's saying in thatpopulation you start seeing
insulin resistance.
It first shows up in muscletissue.
It's a pretty dramatic thing tothink about that.
(11:49):
You've got college studentsthat are already showing signs
of insulin resistance.
So his comment is that physicalactivity is vital to not
experience the consequences ofinsulin resistance, even when
you're as young as 20 years old.
(12:10):
For me, I have an issue where mypancreas has been partially
destroyed by something, and so Ionly have about 20% of
functioning of my pancreas.
So, for me, everything that I dois focused on how can I make my
cells as sensitive to insulinas possible, and so that's my
(12:31):
journey.
Again, the bicycle, to me, isthe primary medical device that
I have in order to do that.
Every time I go out for a bikeride, it keeps me from someday
having to do dialysis orsomething that's a consequence
of my glucose getting out ofwhack.
But also, you know, obesity.
(12:52):
You know, obviously.
We know obesity is a big issue,and the visceral fat is the
biggest importance as far asobesity is concerned.
And if you're not aware of thatterm visceral fat it's really
important to find out what thatis.
A bicycle when we start lookingat obesity and we start looking
at fat, we really want to burnfat, and so a bicycle is really
(13:13):
great because we can vary theresistance, we can really dial
in fat to get in a fat burningmode.
I'm curious has everybody herebeen cycling for like all your
life?
Bob Myrick - TWBC (13:27):
any, anybody take it up later on, or I used
to bicycle when I was a kid,okay, but for many years in
between then and what about 10years ago?
Tom Butler (13:38):
okay.
Okay, you know I didn't do alot of bicycle.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (13:40):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (13:40):
Okay, until Ray talked me into it.
Okay, cool.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (13:43):
Well, fantastic, good for Ray.
I started about 40 years ago,when I was in my 40s.
Okay, okay, nice 40 something.
Tom Butler (13:52):
Yeah, so the earlier we start and the more we stay
with it, then that changes a lotof things For me, starting at
59, then there's the impact ofthat, and so that variable
intensity is something that wasvery important to me as I
(14:12):
started out and has continued tobe important.
Cardiovascular health I won'tgo into a lot of this because I
think a lot of people know kindof this is.
A bicycle can impact thesethings.
But atherosclerosis there's alot that we're learning about
the buildup of plaque that hasto do with maintaining really
(14:33):
healthy energy utilization.
So if you have high glucoselevels, then you're at risk for
atherosclerosis and so reallyit's a big part of it is energy
utilization.
Again, the bicycle is excellentfor that.
One of the things that if you domuch reading on health you hear
a lot about is strength as ameasure of longevity, and so I
(14:58):
just put a little blurb in herefrom a study the risk of dying
during the study period droppedby 30%, so that's a pretty
massive outcome, and that was115,000 people ages 65 and older
.
If you're interested, you cansee the reference here to that.
(15:20):
But there's just no questionnow that getting stronger is
linked to longevity, and I'lltalk a little bit more about
that later.
Immune function super important.
You know when we talk about canthe bicycle impact health?
Is bicycle a medical device,which I argue it is then
(15:44):
obviously we can look at thenetherlands and say, okay, this
is a culture that is does a lotof biking.
Does that show up as far ashealth outcomes are concerned?
And so this is another study.
There's at the end there's alink to the study.
So time spent cycling was about75 minutes per week for Dutch
(16:05):
adults age 20 to 90.
So that's pretty fantastic.
The level of cycling was fairlystable over adulthood and
reached its peak around 65 to 70years of age.
It'd be wonderful to have thatand then start a decline after
80 years, which I'd like to seethat not happen.
(16:28):
And this is a little bit olderof a study I think it's 2015.
So I don't know what thingshave changed, but in a
population of 18 million, anestimated 6,500 deaths are
prevented annually as a resultof cycling.
That's what they estimated,which would be a translation to
the US population to 108,000deaths prevented each year.
(16:52):
In Pierce County we'd belooking at 335 deaths prevented.
We just took up cycling andstayed with it, and that's
compared to 87 traffic deaths inthe county.
So it's a significant impact asfar as preventing death is
concerned.
And then there was an estimatedin 2015 that the Netherlands
(17:17):
saved 19 million euros a year inhealth care costs.
So that was more than a dollarper person a year.
That's just talking abouthealth care spending.
So, again, taking on the bicycleas a medical device definitely
see an impact in the health ofthe population.
So e-bikes, of course.
That brings an element thatpeople can ride a bike.
(17:40):
And again, low intensity Indoortraining, I think is an
important part of the picturebecause there are people that
may be starting out.
Being on an indoor trainer isactually safer.
Joint health is anotherimportant thing.
The Cycling Against Hip PainProgram of the UK is a six-week
exercise and educationaltreatment pathway for people
(18:01):
with hip osteoarthritis, and sowhat they found is there's
massive improvement in hip painand also surgery avoidance, with
people cycling.
And then also knee recovery,and I'm thinking we've all kind
of heard stories about peoplealleviating knee pains through
cycling.
My knee has to recover after Icycle.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (18:23):
Oh, okay, okay.
Tom Butler (18:25):
Well, that's an interesting thing we'll talk
about in a bit.
Brain health exercise promotesthe expression of brain-derived
neurotropic factor, so actuallya factor that increases brain
activity.
And then again, balance is animportant part of staying
healthy longer.
Really interesting thingshappening with Parkinson's and
(18:47):
cycling, and then emotionalhealth, depression, stress
management and then alsobuilding social networks.
And one of the things that I doon Zwift is I do a Cycling Over
60 group ride every Thursdayand it's a way that I can
actually ride with people thataren't in the local area, and I
think that there's a lot ofthings that can be done through
(19:10):
that.
So that's kind of my premise.
As far as why I think thebicycle needs to be considered a
medical device, this came outof a lot of conversations that I
had with the podcast, withpeople, healthcare professionals
.
Exercise being medicine issomething that you hear more and
(19:31):
more, and so the bike as anexercise device I think is
extremely effective device.
I think is extremely effective.
What I decided to do was, inthe, to move cycling the cycling
over 60 community forward wasto actually build local cycling
over 60 communities.
(19:51):
I'm in Pierce County, and so itmade a lot of sense for me to
launch the first cycling over 60community here in Pierce County
and there's some reasons forthat.
One, building real lifeconnections are really valuable
for success.
You talked about Ray, you know,getting you going and that's
(20:14):
that real life connection that Ithink is really helpful to get
people going.
And then support from localexperienced cyclists.
So safe routes, encouragement.
Erin I interviewed two episodesago and her story is great.
She did like 30, she did a 39day trip in India.
There were 30 days of riding.
(20:34):
I think she ended up ridingmaybe 26 of the 30 days.
She hasn't been cycling thatlong.
She started, she took it upduring COVID but she showed up
one day in Eugene.
There's a cycling club calledGears, the greater Eugene area,
something cyclists and theyreally embraced her.
(20:56):
She was really inexperiencedand they really drew her in.
She was really inexperiencedand they really drew her in and
took care of her and I thoughtit was such a fantastic example
of a bike club really embracingsomeone new.
I think another important thingabout cycling locally is support
from county and city healthpromotion efforts.
It is well known that activityis really important for a
(21:17):
healthy community and by doingsomething local then you get to,
you get to plug into thoseefforts and local medical
expertise you talked about.
My knee has to recover after Iride, but that's something you
have to overcome when you rideand so it's helpful to have
local health professionals thatcan say, okay, this is when we
(21:40):
need to take that seriously.
You know, that's just asituation of you know your body
and what you have to do for you.
You know, or somebody elsemight not have to to strengthen
the structures in a way or touse athletic tape in a way to
help with tracking or whateveryou know how those health
(22:04):
professionals that can be tappedinto.
And then also just from someonethat's new, you know, like me
when I was 59 and I'm like, okay, I'm going to start writing a
lot, just to sit down with mydoctor and say what are the
things that I should be thinkingabout when I do that?
So components of a localPsyching Over 60 program is
(22:27):
group rides, of course, andgroup rides that have a
component for people that canshow up, who are really
inexperienced, not very strong,and feel really welcomed and
there's something for them to do, even if maybe some group rides
you're only going out for twoand a half miles and turning
around and coming back, you know, but that there's a, there's a
(22:48):
way.
Um, the group rides.
There are meeting the needs forpeople that want to go out and
you know 16, 17 miles and ouraverage pace for you know 50
miles but then also for peoplethat want to go really light New
Rider Education.
One of the collaborators herein Tacoma is Second Cycle and so
(23:11):
they do new rider educationwith high school students.
But we're working togetherbeing able to do new rider
education with older riders,which I think you know.
One of the thing is how do youidentify new riders?
How do you identify people,because I don't think people
tend to self-identify that Ineed help learning how to ride,
(23:31):
how to choose a bicycle, how tochoose a bicycle that fits, how
to choose a bicycle for what youwant to use it for, how to find
a bike fitter all those thingsabout that entry into making
sure that they're as comfortableas possible on a bike that they
choose and then interface withthe local medical community so
that we can say you know, beforeyou get started, it might be
(23:53):
good to talk to this person.
Also, I believe that thepotential of really having
referrals from local medicalprofessionals.
My doctor loved what I didbecause, you know, I'm going
along in a trajectory of gettingworse and worse and worse and
then all of a sudden, boom I,that trajectory totally changed
(24:15):
and he's really excited thatthat happened.
That's atypical, I mean.
It definitely happens.
People choose to get in shape.
But really one of the reasonswhy the focus on cycling over 60
and what I say is that cyclingover 60 really starts at 55.
(24:36):
Start at 55 and get kind of upto speed so that you can stay
cycling over 60.
And obviously it'd be great ifpeople started younger.
But I think there is kind of asituation where people need to
see problems, you know, and theyneed like me, you know, and
I've have a lot of education inhealth promotion and I had to
(24:57):
get to the point where, you know, I could no longer say okay,
this will reverse itself, youknow, easily I have to take some
dramatic changes.
And so the medical communitythere's, they're interfacing
with a lot of people that areolder that could really use to
get on a bike.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (25:14):
Did your doctor give you a prescription?
Did he tell you that it wouldbe wise to get out and exercise?
Tom Butler (25:22):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm thinking probably around35, 40.
Was the first time my doctors Ididn't have that doctor at the
time, but doctors started sayingyou know, activity is going to
be key for you in the future.
And I probably gained weightevery year, at least starting at
(25:45):
35.
You know, I put on a littleweight every year all the way up
to 59.
I was at about 240, 240 pounds.
Now I'm down about 200.
I'm looking to go down lighterthan that, but there's a kind of
a specific approach I want touse to do that, because I'm
trying to maintain as much leanmuscle mass as possible.
(26:06):
But yeah, so my doctor wassaying you need to be active.
But he got the point where itwas like okay, I've said this to
him like 40 times, he's eithergoing to do it or he's not.
And again it really took medeciding okay, this is the time
time to get it done.
It was interesting Cause Ididn't do it like right when
(26:28):
COVID hit, which would have beena perfect time to do it.
You know, I still was, waswaiting, I don't know, for some
magic or something to happen.
I'm not sure what it was, butagain it fine, I'm like okay,
this is this is it.
I got to do something about it.
Another thing about a localpresence is that we can do an
annual cycling or 60 ride, and Ithink there can.
There are quite a number ofpeople that, like me, having
(26:54):
that goal, that they want towork towards that.
That's going to be helpful, butsupporting that in the right
way and making sure the right isdone in the right way.
I think it's 14th it's either13th or 14th.
(27:14):
I think 14th is a Sunday setaside to do the first annual
ride.
One thing that I think is vital,one thing that I think research
is showing, is that cyclingalone is not enough.
You have to build upper bodystrength.
So I've been talking to thepeople's community center about
(27:35):
having a class there.
It's really close to cycling,or 60, I'm sorry, really close
to second cycle, and so, uh,we're, we're set up.
Once we can generate someinterest.
Do some some strength trainingfor cyclists.
It would specifically bestrength, strength training for
cyclists with the upper body,but also how can you build your
legs up to make cycling better?
(27:57):
And resistance training.
Some health seminars you know Ifound health professionals
pretty generous and veryinterested in this, and so,
again, part of connecting to themedical community is getting
some people to come in and talkabout different things that are
important to stay healthy andstay, keep joints and everything
(28:18):
in good working order and allof that.
Um, cycling with a without agehas anybody ever heard of
cycling without age?
but uh, no that is a programjust that I love, and that is,
you put someone who has mobilityissues in a seat on the front
(28:40):
of a bicycle.
They're trikes andbattery-operated and you take
them out for a ride.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (28:45):
They do that in a squim.
Tom Butler (28:47):
Okay, yeah.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (28:48):
Squim Washington yeah.
Tom Butler (28:49):
So Elysio here has four bikes.
Really, they're really excitedabout a local community taking
that on.
Clem Washington yeah, so Elysiohere has four bikes.
They're really excited about alocal community taking that on.
And so that's what I'vecommitted to help find pilots
for those and to come up withsome good ways to do that.
I could talk endlessly aboutthat, but I won't.
But an opportunity to get peopleout and about and get some
(29:11):
cycling in, that normallywouldn't be the process, and the
last thing that I would talkabout is that I want to be have
this focused on being aco-generate process which is
connecting generations together.
The nice thing about SecondCycle is that they have young
(29:34):
cyclists that they're workingwith, and so to really make this
a cross-generational programand find ways of whether it's
trips or whatever weekly rides,but that we really are bonding
people of different agestogether.
I think that's.
There is an organization calledCogenerate.
(29:56):
I haven't reached out to themyet it's one of the next things
I'm going to be doing but Ithink that they're going to
really like this project as aCogenerate project.
(30:22):
The reason that I'm talkingabout this is that I would love
for Tacoma Washington BicycleClub to embrace this and to, you
know, being aware that peoplecould be showing up to group
rides new people to be, you know, looking at different ways to
bring your knowledge aboutcycling to people that don't
(30:43):
have a lot of knowledge aboutcycling, and just, you know, as
a club, really, in visualizingwhat does it look like to do
things that will specificallykeep people cycling later on in
life, the you know, like theannual ride, to have some people
being willing to participate inthe annual ride, maybe a
(31:03):
sweepers or um to help navigate.
For, for people that aren'tfamiliar with the, with the
trail, um, the trail is prettyeasy, but's you know the roads
around Enumclaw.
It's just a pretty basic routewhen you get up on the plateau,
but you know things like that.
I think you guys have the.
(31:23):
There's a ride you do on theplateau and I'm blanking on the
name of it right now it's calledthe Headwater Century.
Headwater Century Do you havethat scheduled for 2025?
I think it might be the weekbefore.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (31:36):
It will be in .
TWBC Member (31:37):
September 8th.
Tom Butler (31:38):
September 8th yeah so that's the week before what I
was thinking about doing this,so this isn't locked in stone
that day.
TWBC Member (31:47):
Sorry.
September 6th September 6thSaturday.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (31:51):
Okay, so this would be the next Sunday
September 6th Saturday Okay, sothis would be the next Sunday.
Your program is very similar towhat we've been doing for the
last 50 years.
Okay, because we cycle for whatis it?
Transportation, fitness orhealth, transportation, health
(32:11):
and the other thing that I can'trecall right at the moment, but
it's on one of our businesscards, on our logo.
TWBC Member (32:19):
Recreation.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (32:21):
Recreation, transportation, recreation and
health, both environmentalhealth and personal health.
So that's been our mantra forlike 50 years now.
Tom Butler (32:34):
Yeah, that's why I think there's a really easy
merger about what we're tryingto do.
The only thing that I'm goingto be looking at doing is
reaching out again to healthcare professionals.
When I talk about the bicycleas a medical device, then it
really is those, the people withthe county, that are saying how
(32:56):
can we improve the healthoutcomes?
How can we specifically, like,improve obesity?
Bob Myrick - TWBC (33:03):
We actually some of you guys might not know
this, but we had a programcalled Car Last Commute for 18
years, okay, and it wassponsored by Pierce County Parks
and the hospitals and the phonecompanies and about 12 or 15
(33:24):
people sitting around the table.
Yeah, and that program went onfor 18 years and then when the
one individual retired from thecounty, the program kind of went
away.
It had a long history and a lotof people were participating in
that program.
Tom Butler (33:46):
Yeah, and I think that those programs you know I'm
a real believer that thoseprograms need to keep going.
I believe active transportationas a focus from county, city,
state, nationally, whatever, Ithink that those programs need
to keep going.
I think there's another layeron top of that and I think
MultiCare is a good examplebecause they have programs that
(34:08):
they do that are focused oncommunity development, and so I
think having funding into thoseprograms are great.
But also there's elements oflike, for example, the hip
health program.
That's like a specific thingthat a bicycle offers that is
(34:28):
unique, and a lot of thatprogram in the uk is about
stationary cycling, right.
So you, you know there need tobe this element stationary cycle
that some people transitioninto the road or trails or
whatever, but um, but that's alittle different thing.
Like multi-care sponsoring, likethese community development
things are a little differentthan them saying, okay, this,
(34:50):
the bicycle is a medical device,is something that we want to
advocate for and that, to me, isdone a little bit differently
than like a safe routes for toschools program or other things
like that.
Or even like they, they heavilysponsor, um, the rider
education program through secondcycle, but that's a little bit
(35:12):
of a different focus of on thecommunity, rather than saying
there's this medical device,that we're going to start trying
to get people to see thebicycle differently, as
something that can save theirlife what you're doing is kind
of very parallel to what we'vebeen doing through at least
(35:35):
eight or more years with thosegroups yeah, and I think that's
you know again why I wanted to.
You know, this is like my firststop as far as talking to
community organizations.
I mean, I started, uh, workingwith second cycle, but the, the
bicycle club, I think, is anabsolute vital entity for this
(35:55):
focus on getting people cyclinglater on in life.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (36:00):
As you work your program.
It would be good to kind ofmesh with us, because we have a
senior cycle on Monday, tuesday,wednesday, Thursday and
Saturday.
We have, like, another littlegroup that puts on the Tuesday
night ride.
So that's going on right now.
Tom Butler (36:21):
I think that's exactly it.
That's exactly what I'd likeyou to be open to, you know, is
that you know I can recommend topeople as I run into them hey,
go on and look at the calendarand and you'll see the different
rides, and then it's just if weget, you know, like five people
(36:41):
at a time that are like youknow, I could really use some
additional advice from someonewho's an experienced cyclist,
you know, like on safe routesand stuff like that, then that
might be able to be integratedin like as part of a ride, or
maybe you know something thathappens in addition to a ride,
(37:02):
or show up early for a ride,let's have a conversation and
then go out on a ride and youknow, and maybe a pace group.
That's a little.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (37:13):
And I could do that slower pace group In the
past we've had, like we call it, a beginner ride and we've had
very little turnout.
We've tried that over the last30 years like a beginner and I
don't know why, but it's.
Maybe people are afraid to comeout or something, but the
(37:34):
turnout is usually rather lowand I can't explain why.
Tom Butler (37:40):
I think it's possible and I can't say that I
know why, but I think it'spossible that again, it's hard
for someone to self-identify forsomething like that.
TWBC Member (37:50):
Don't have any real problem with promoting
bicycling for health.
That's a wonderful thing.
I will say that I think youneed to be careful about calling
it a medical device, because Ithink there's a legal term for
that and I don't know what it is, but I think there's a legal
(38:12):
term for that description.
But there are lots ofalternative words.
You might want to start I can'ttell exactly where you are on
wanting to bring people on boardbut you might ride a few times
on the Thursday ride, which ismostly retired people frequent,
(38:37):
all over 60.
And and see how that works forfor you and to ride with them,
and then begin to invite peoplein your community to ride on
Thursday.
Tom Butler (38:51):
So let me.
Let me talk about both thosethings, because I think you're
right to question why I'm usingthe term medical device.
But I'm specifically being abit provocative there.
You could argue that you wouldhave to get FDA approval for a
medical device.
I mean, that's an argument youcould make, but I think that for
(39:14):
me, like just coming out andsaying I believe it's a medical
device, I don't care if youbelieve it is or not, but for me
it's been a medical device.
I'm willing to be a bitprovocative that way Because I
want to be very clear.
I want people to have a veryclear picture in their mind that
I'm talking about somethingthat is at a different level and
(39:40):
I feel very comfortable ifanybody questions on me.
This is all the reasons.
I'll give you all the researchof what leads me to call it a
medical device, in addition tomy own personal experience.
I think it's a good thing tosay and I'm not saying that the
bike club should talk about itas a medical device.
I'm just saying is that I'm outtalking to doctors.
I'm saying, really, when welook at the bicycle, it's a
(40:03):
medical device.
And the doctors are like you'reabsolutely right, it's a
medical intervention.
Until the FDA asks me to stopdoing that, I'll probably do it.
I think you're only going to getin trouble if you try to sell a
bike.
I think that's right.
Or if you try to sell a specificbike, like bought a bike from
the bike shop and sold it as a$1,000 markup because it's a
(40:26):
medical device, or getreimbursement from your health
provider for your insurance.
But the truth of the matter isI'm going to be pushing that
direction as much as I can.
So I won't go into a big longstory about work that I did
before as far as health clubmemberships and insurance
reimbursement for health carememberships, but I'm going to be
(40:49):
pushing like where's the healthcare system reimbursement if
you go out and buy a bike?
So that's a very complicatedconversation to have.
TWBC Member (41:02):
I've also been a part of several programs over
the years that promoted physicalactivity in various ways and we
worked with physicians, and Iheard you mention this early on.
We worked with physicians toget them to do prescriptions.
I would also say that physicaltherapists would be a good
(41:28):
partnering, supportingprofession for what you're
talking about, partly because ofthe types of physical activity.
And a third thing that I wantto mention is that there's a
growing body of research thatlooks at women's training on
(41:52):
bicycles, and women need totrain a little bit differently
than men have traditionallytrained.
So it's a growing body ofresearch very helpful for women.
Tom Butler (42:04):
I think that's a fantastic observation and I
think that's one of those thingsthat taking more of a medical
approach.
Now in Pierce County, both PLUand what's the other place, ups
they both have kinesiologyprograms and you know, but those
(42:25):
are programs that I think weshould also be tying into
specifically to have people kindof advising on those things in
helping to build programs andconnecting with their graduates
and building programs that arereally specific to different
people's needs.
There's, you know, some peoplehave knee issues.
(42:45):
You know there's all kinds ofrehab issues.
So there's, you know again, andthe difference between men and
women I think is an importantdifference as well, but you know
those.
And the difference between menand women, I think, is an
important difference as well,but you know, those are all
kinds of things that need to betaken into account, which is
again part of what Cycling Over60 is meant to do is to pull in
the local experts.
The idea is to have othercommunities and then be pulling
(43:18):
information from othercommunities around and their
connections with universitiesand and providers to really come
up with best practices.
One of the comments was aboutparticipating in rides, and you
know that's something I'mdefinitely going to be doing.
Thursdays is kind of tough forme because I do the Zwift ride
on Thursdays but, um, when itgets hot I'm not going to be
doing the Zwift ride at threeo'clock in the afternoon.
(43:39):
The other thing is that,because of my blood sugar issues
, riding the afternoon is ismore beneficial for me than
writing in the morning.
But yeah, you know, I'lldefinitely be um hitting the
rides and the rides anddefinitely for me, if you guys
are okay with it, this is what Iwill do is I will meet someone
(44:01):
and I'll talk to them aboutcycling and what it's done for
me and then I will say let's getyou connected to the rides that
are going on the bike club andyou know kind of be funneling
the people in.
Because, again, I think thelocal bicycle club is absolutely
(44:22):
vital.
Just like I talked about Erin,when she showed up at Gears, you
know, they welcomed her in andyou know.
And then, three years yearslater, she's biking all over
India, and part of it wasbecause of that community that
embraced her.
And then also there is thisdesire that I have.
(44:44):
I mean, part of this is just adesire to see cycling more
popular.
So when I do SCP this year, Iwill have probably four
20-year-olds that will be goingwith me, and so that's another
thing about the social supportthat I have to go out cycling.
(45:05):
How do we get people tounderstand that cycling as a
fitness program also?
Bring young people along withyou, bring your family members
along with you so they cansupport you.
You all want to get healthy andas a family, if you're getting
healthier together, it's better.
So the other thing is to funnelwhole groups into the bike club
(45:28):
as well.
Bob Myrick - TWBC (45:30):
Well, thank you so much.
Yeah, well, thank you forhaving me Really appreciate you.
Tom Butler (45:33):
Yeah, well, thank you for having me Really
appreciate you.
Yeah, you heard a littlepushback at the meeting about me
calling the bicycle a medicaldevice.
I didn't really see that ascriticism, just somebody wanting
to make sure I'm getting thingsright.
As I said then, I hope it is alittle provocative when I call
(45:56):
the bicycle a medical device,because I want to provoke
healthcare providers and othersto see the bike this way Again.
I believe if you can say thatexercise is medicine, then I
think the bike needs to be seenas a medical device.
There is a site with the URLexerciseismedicineorg.
It's a site by ACSM, theAmerican College of Sports
Medicine.
(46:16):
The site includes an Rx forHealth section.
In this section, acsm providesessential guidelines on exercise
for sedentary individuals andthose with various chronic
diseases and medical conditionsand medical conditions.
So I think when you're giving aprescription for activity as
medicine, then it is logicalthat the bike is a medical
device and a perfect device forcarrying out these prescriptions
(46:39):
.
I'm looking forward to havingmany more discussions about the
bicycle as a medical device.
I love it that partners likeTacoma Washington Bicycle Club
are coming together to seeCycling Over 60 become a local
program.
I believe it's just thebeginning of something really
special here.
Whether you are cycling becauseof some health condition or
just out enjoying the world atthe pace of a bicycle, I know
(47:00):
you are getting a lot of benefitfrom it.
And remember, age is just agear change.
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Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.