April 18, 2025 • 59 mins
For this episode, join Tom as he shares a key ingredient in his cycling fitness: joyful miles spent riding alongside his wife, Kelly. Then, we welcome Liz Lunderman, the dynamic new Events Director for Cascade Bicycle Club! Get to know Liz and hear all about the cool new Iron Horse Gravel ride. Discover what it takes to bring a fantastic cycling event to life on a remote trail and meet a young leader shaping the future of our cycling community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tom Butler (00:04):
This is the Cycling Over 60 podcast, season 3,
episode 26,.
The Iron Horse Gravel Ride, andI'm your host, tom Butler.
This weekend we are doing ourfirst ride on the Olympic
(00:26):
Discovery Trail.
We're only doing a shortsection of 10 miles next to Lake
Crescent near Port Angeles,washington.
Riding the Olympic DiscoveryTrail is one of the goals that I
had set for this season of thepodcast and I'm really looking
forward to it.
Eventually, I want to do all137 miles of the trail in one
trip.
This trip is the first timeKelly will be riding this year
(00:48):
and I'm looking forward to usgetting back on the road
together.
We have decided that for now,she is going to get the most
enjoyment out of doing paved,dedicated trails and staying off
the road.
Of course, that still gives usplenty to explore.
Like most people, kelly and Ihave a struggle between our
desire to be out on someadventure with the reality that
we have so many other things todo on the weekends.
(01:08):
For example, we tend to gardenthat isn't on our property, and
weekends are prime gardeningtime.
So even though we shouldprobably be putting plants in
this weekend, we're off toexperience the wilderness.
For me, one of the hardestaspects of staying active is
simply pushing back other tasks.
Now the truth is, we actuallydon't have a lot of the demands
that many people have, and we'relucky in that way, and staying
(01:30):
active is a health necessity forme now.
So skipping cycling is likeskipping surgery or some other
life-saving treatment.
Both Kelly and I see it as thatimportant, and sometimes that
still is not enough andsomething gets in the way.
I believe we aren't even closeyet to building a society here
in the US where activity isvalued as it should be.
(01:52):
I'm hoping that what we aretrying to build here locally
with Cycling Over 60 willcontribute in some way to
shifting the social norms aroundactivity.
Riding with my family isextremely important to me,
staying active, and Kellyunderstands that and feels the
same way.
This makes it important to makeriding together as enjoyable as
possible.
Pedal assist is a huge reasonthat we can ride more together.
(02:13):
Kelly is never going to put inthe miles that I put in, and
it's great that pedal assisthelps us stay together.
As I mentioned, we are lookingfor ways that we can avoid roads
.
We just don't like interactingwith cars.
Paid bike trails are one way ofdoing this, but we want to try
doing more gravel rides.
In order to do this, I thinkwe're going to need to get Kelly
a different bike.
We still need to experiencemore gravel to really know for
(02:37):
sure, but it seems like hercruise bike is going to bounce
her around too much on gravel.
She got the cruise bike becauseshe was uncomfortable in a
normal cycling position, so weare going to have to look hard
for something that works for her.
Currently, I think that we'lltry a bike that has front
suspension and put a red shiftsuspension seat post on it.
I haven't actually heard fromanyone who uses a suspension
(02:58):
seat post, but I am hopeful itwill help.
If you or someone you ride withuses one, drop me a text.
I would love to know if peoplefind them helpful.
I would love to know if peoplefind them helpful.
One of the factors that we couldbe dealing with is tariff
pricing on new bikes.
Bike Retailer, an industry newssource, recently reported that
Specialized Bicycles informedretailers that they will list an
(03:22):
additional tariff charge on aseparate line item on invoices
for at least one of their bikesafter May 1st.
Of course, that probably meansthat tariff surcharge will be
passed on to the customers.
I guess they didn't get thememo that China was paying all
the tariffs.
I hope that we don't find thatall bike prices are being
adjusted to account for thetrade war.
One of the more intriguingoptions I've seen is the Canyon
(03:44):
Grizzle OnFly.
It is a front suspensione-gravel bike with a seat post
that is like a leaf spring.
We're definitely checking thatout and we're only beginning to
figure out what we need toconsider when we're looking at
bikes.
This spring I've been doingmostly flat routes, but that is
going to have to change so I canbe ready for some of the rides
(04:04):
I'm doing this summer.
I feel some confidence withthis now because I'm going into
my third year of riding hills toget prepped for STP, but I
still don't look forward to thephysical pain I feel while
climbing.
If you are someone that enjoysthat kind of challenge, I tip my
hat to you.
It'll be interesting to see ifmy legs adapt to climbing faster
this year.
It's nice that I have some datafrom the last two years so that
(04:26):
I can compare.
However, the first year I wason a different bike and the
climbing experience was quitedifferent.
I recently ran across an articleonline that said that hills are
not harder than cycling on theflat.
The word not was all in caps,so I guess that shows they are
really serious about thatstatement.
The article is an older one,but I wanted to check out what
they had to say.
Here's the gist of the argumentPower is power, so if you are
(04:50):
doing 150 watts going up a hill,it is the same as doing 150
watts on the flats.
The author's approach toclimbing hills is simply getting
into a lower gear and stayingat the same wattage.
Obviously there's some validityto that point, but the logic
seems to break down in a coupleways for me.
First, when I'm on a flat, I'mpushing 200 pounds forward and
(05:12):
that means if I ease off thepedals, I keep going for a while
because of momentum.
If you ask AI about it, you geta very complicated formula that
makes some assumption and spitsout formula that makes some
assumption and spits out 896feet of coasting if I hit 15
miles per hour before lettingoff the pedals.
I doubt I will try to confirmthat, but I do know.
(05:33):
If I'm on a 10% grade or higherand I stop pedaling, I coast
approximately zero feet.
That makes a big difference, nomatter what gear I'm in.
A second issue is that when Iget above a 7% grade, matter
what gear I'm in.
A second issue is that when Iget above a 7% grade I'm already
in the lowest gear I have onthe Roubaix.
I guess you could argue that Imight need to change gearing in
that case.
But there's also an issue ofgoing so slow that I start to
(05:55):
lose the ability to steer.
For now it seems like climbinghills is definitely going to be
harder than riding on a flat forme.
I am quite curious about whatpower I'm putting out on some of
the climbs I do, but Icurrently don't have any plans
to buy something that would helpme figure that out on my road
bikes.
I got an email from Paul Tomeiat Cascade Bicycle Club that
(06:24):
they are adding another gravelride option for this summer
called the Iron Horse GravelRide.
It sounds like a fantastic rideand I wanted to have someone
from Cascade on to talk about it.
Fortunately, liz Lunderman, therelatively new events director
at Cascade Bicycle Club, agreedto come on.
I'm so glad she did because itgave me an opportunity to get to
know her a bit and ask aboutthe ride.
(06:46):
I like bringing on CascadeBicycle Club leaders, because I
think people in the cyclingcommunity can glean some really
good ideas from the work thatthey do.
Here's my conversation with Liz.
I am pleased to welcome LizLunderman from Cascade Bicycle
Club to join me today.
Thanks for being here, liz.
Liz Lunderman (07:03):
I'm so happy and excited to be here with you, Tom
.
Tom Butler (07:06):
You are relatively new to Cascade Bicycle Club and
the club recently announced whatI think is an exciting new ride
, so I thought it would be greatto bring you on to learn a bit
more.
Now I'm going to start with aquestion that I typically start
with, and that is what are yourearliest memories of the bicycle
?
Liz Lunderman (07:24):
I have been going back into my memories.
My first memories are inGermany.
My dad's in the military, so Iwas born in Japan, lived in
Germany and that's where Istarted on the little trike.
But one of the more significantearly memories is in the summer
, during my high schoolexperience.
(07:45):
I told my mom I didn't want togo to summer camps and I just
wanted to stay and ride bikeswith my friends.
And so for the whole summer itwas a whole crew of us and I
have never felt more giddy,powerful, just rolling around
the town of Manlius with myfriends and there was an old
stickly factory for furnituremaking and behind there there
(08:07):
was a little forest and they hadjump lines and trails back
there and we'd all watch theguys hit the jumps and my
girlfriends and I would sitthere and just watch them and be
like, oh, that's not for us,we're going to sit over here.
I still like older me kicksmyself and I wish that I got in
(08:27):
there with the guys when I wasyoung and learned how to jump.
Yeah, and then after that highschool summer, cruised around on
.
It was a like a walmart bikeand I remember it had the, the
frame that didn't connect toitself and then it had a coil
shock on it.
It's very interesting, yeah,but then I took a hiatus from
(08:49):
biking for a little while.
I decided to start travelingwhen I went to college and, yeah
, I didn't really pick up a bikeuntil I moved to washington
okay.
Tom Butler (08:57):
Several times people have talked about early
experiences and I love thispicture of kids kind of in a
group, out, you know, roamingaround, doing stuff, having
mobility together.
I just think that's a wonderfulimage of the bicycle.
Yeah, it's very like stand byme now and then feel yeah, and I
(09:21):
hope that you know these daysgirls are looking at that and
going, I'm going to, I'm goingto go out on that track you know
I hope we're getting thatmessage out.
Liz Lunderman (09:30):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's been throughout from
college until now.
A huge part of my career hasbeen dedicated to getting more
women and non-binary folks outon bikes, so that little me
watching those boys hitting thejumps.
We have more girls andnon-binary folks getting out
(09:50):
there and hitting those.
Tom Butler (09:52):
How long have you been at Cascade and what
attracted you to theorganization?
Liz Lunderman (09:58):
I haven't been at Cascade very long.
My start date was January 9th,2025.
So this year and previously Iwas with Evergreen Mountain Bike
Alliance, and my mission mypersonal mission in life is to
make the trails and the roadfeel like home for everyone on a
(10:19):
bike, and with Evergreen Ilearned so much with the
organization.
My closest friends are there, Ihave some chosen family there
and when I was looking atCascade Bicycle Club and the
event director position becameopen, I realized that my passion
for mountain biking could beelevated to more cyclists.
(10:43):
So gravel riding, road cyclingand Cascade's mission to get
everyone on bikes is amazing.
That's like the core of whatwe're doing over at Cascade and
what I want to see the worldkind of move towards as well.
(11:03):
So, yeah, I decided to apply forthe position and I couldn't be
happier here with the Cascadefamily.
They've been so warm andwelcoming.
The events team is incredible.
I wish I could introduce themall to everyone because they're
so passionate and hardworkingand they really believe in the
mission.
So it's really cool.
(11:24):
I do have some big shoes tofill, though Dave Douglas
building up the events seasonfor Cascade the past 53 years.
It's pretty awesome to have himas a mentor and learn from what
he's been able to create.
Tom Butler (11:40):
Now I'm thinking you had heard of Cascade.
You'd seen Cascade in the past,so what had you heard that you
thought was awesome as far asCascade as a community of
cyclists?
Liz Lunderman (11:58):
I think for a lot of people I'm in the same boat
where our first touch point forCascade was the Seattle to
Portland ride, scp, and I had aroommate at the time in Seattle
who was like Liz I know it'slast minute, but do you want to
do this 200 mile bike ride fromSeattle to Portland?
And I said hell, no, horribleidea.
(12:21):
And I trained up for it.
It did get me to their websiteand start poking around and all
their free group rides and theirother events like the chili
hilly and RSVP, and so that waskind of the first time I had
even thought about oh, could Iride my bike 200 miles?
(12:42):
And now that's a goal of mine,right?
Tom Butler (12:46):
so nice, so are you pursuing that this year?
Liz Lunderman (12:49):
oh, I hate to admit it, but as the event
director, I have to run theevent, you know I mean, that's
the, that's the hard thing aboutit, right?
Tom Butler (12:58):
so many cool things to do, and then you're really
busy those days yeah, yeah, uh,one of One of our event
producers, sarah Manti.
Liz Lunderman (13:05):
she's leading the charge and the event director
for STP, and I'll be supportingher and learning about the ins
and outs of the event, how we'regoing to elevate it for 2026.
But one year I feel like, asthe event director, I need to go
ride it and experience itmyself.
Tom Butler (13:26):
I think that's right .
Liz Lunderman (13:27):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (13:29):
STP is a large event and there's a lot of I think
impressive is the right word forevents like RSVP and the tours
and stuff.
What are some of the categoriesof resources that you need to
have to pull off rides like that?
Liz Lunderman (13:48):
first it's we're always asking the question of
permitting, location and parking, and so those are the three
main pieces of building an event.
And if it's even possible andwith stp it's had this amazing
growth and post-covid we'reseeing.
We're starting to see numbersof like this year.
(14:10):
We're about to have our largeststp post-covid, so we're
anticipating over 5 000 riderscoming out and and this is like
kind of the boring part of eventmanagement right, it's the
permitting, having the going outto do the pre-rides.
We have a full team that goesin and looks out routes and
(14:32):
there might be construction thisyear and so we'll have to do a
reroute and over the years wehave this really awesome event
storage unit where we've builtout and Dave has done so much
work to get it to this point allof our event supplies.
And I got to tell you some ofthe most grueling days isn't the
permitting but it's the packingthe trucks to get everything
(14:56):
out and then unloading thetrucks after four days of
putting on an event.
So there's a lot that goes intothe event planning and the
rewarding part is what I like tocall the event glow after,
where you think about all ofthose serendipitous moments that
people have had, whether it'sconnections with each other on
(15:18):
the event, or they had a flat orsome sort of mechanical issue
that they had to push throughand it was challenging but they
did it.
Or like the person who does the200 mile bike ride in one day
for STP and is so proud ofthemselves and um, it's those,
those moments.
That really is why I love eventmanagement and being here with
(15:43):
Gascade.
Does that answer the question?
Tom Butler (15:46):
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to tell you a story.
Liz Lunderman (15:48):
Okay.
Tom Butler (15:49):
But I'm actually trying not to get emotional
about this.
Liz Lunderman (15:53):
Oh, that's okay, we like being emotional over
here.
Tom Butler (15:57):
I want to like add to that.
You know, I did my first STP at60, where Cycling Over 60 kind
of was launched around thatwhole thing.
Thank you, thank you.
She's clapping for I know youcan't see, but she's clapping
for me, which is nice.
I actually didn't think I wasgoing to make it when I started
training.
I'm like you know, this isprobably too much.
(16:19):
And my wife was like this mightbe too much to you.
Know, you haven't been on abike for a long time.
You know Like this might be toomuch to you.
Know, you haven't been on abike for a long time, you know.
And so when I started training,it was a nice goal, but I
didn't know if I would make thatgoal.
And then so when I did it, itwas really powerful.
Liz Lunderman (16:34):
It's really awesome, Tom, and incredibly
inspiring.
Tom Butler (16:37):
Yeah, my wife and my daughter were there welcoming
me and I'm trying I'm holdingback tears right now, everyone
knows, but it was like in mylife, it just felt like such a
significant step to make.
So you know, that's part ofthat I think that you're talking
about is those experiences inwhat you guys unlock for people
(16:59):
to experience.
It's wonderful.
Liz Lunderman (17:07):
It's the sense of pride and that accomplishment
and knowing that and for me,when I started, when I moved
here and we can get into thisstory a little bit later, but I
started enduro racing withCascadia, the Cascadia Dirt Cup.
And enduro you bike up themountain and then you're timed
on the stages going down onthese mountain bike trails.
An enduro you bike up themountain and then your time down
the stage is going down onthese mountain bike trails.
(17:27):
And my first race I was sonervous and so terrified and I'm
pushing myself up the hill andin my head I'm thinking of all
the women in my life who arecheering me on, like my friend
Mandy, who I met in college, andshe, her and I have done some
crazy outdoor adventure stuff,like we did a Grand Canyon
(17:53):
backpacking trip over in thewinter for New Year's.
And all of my sturdy bitchracing friends over at the
Sturdy Dirty and my friendChrissy over at Donut Squad.
And cycling, whether it's roadcycling, gravel cycling,
mountain biking, anything andit's that community and the
connection and those types ofpeople that are cheering you on
and listening to you, tom, likeyour wife and kids supporting
(18:16):
you at the end of that ride.
What a powerful moment inmemory.
And it's really.
It brings people together.
So two wheels, man, it's.
There's a reason why it feelslike a cult sometimes.
I love it Feels like a cultsometimes.
Tom Butler (18:30):
I love it.
Now it seems like you've beenfocused a lot on outdoor
experiences, and how did thatinterest come about?
Liz Lunderman (18:39):
When I was really young I was 14 or so and a
friend's mom took my friend andI out to Mount Phelps in the
Adirondacks and I had no ideawhat a hike was, and it was on
the cusp of winter and I hadbrought my tennis shoes and
jeans you know, hoodie and westart on the hike and there's
(19:03):
massive puddles like total snowon the mountain.
My tennis shoes are going toget wet and we put plastic bags
on my feet and duct tape themaround my leg and then I slipped
them back into the tennis shoesand we put plastic bags on my
feet and duct tape them aroundmy leg and then I slipped them
back into the tennis shoes andher mom was like all right,
we're doing this, we're stillgoing, and we get up to the top
and it's this beautiful, sunnywinter wonderland and on the way
down we're sliding down thetrail on our butts because it's
(19:26):
all the snow and this was likeDisneyland.
For me.
It was incredible and I thinkit goes back to that sense of
pride and accomplishment and Iwas hooked from there.
And so in college I built out anonprofit inspired by Lindsay
Dyer.
(19:46):
She's a big skier and she cameout with the film Pretty Faces
and when I watched it I was like, wow, look at all these bad-ass
women getting out there doingthis for themselves.
And so that inspired me incollege to start Women in
Wilderness.
And it was helping connectyoung women in rural communities
to outdoor experiences likeknolls and outward bound or
(20:08):
summer camps where they wouldn'thave had the opportunity before
to do that.
And I was studying genomics atthe time, so big science lab
nerd.
And I remember sitting thereright before I was about to go
study abroad in Vietnam andbeing like do I want to be in a
lab the rest of my life?
(20:29):
I'm really drawn to outdoorexperiences.
They've changed me.
And so in Vietnam, I didn'ttell anyone and I applied for
Peace Corps in Tanzania and Iwas accepted.
Well, I told my mom, she justbroke down crying.
She was like, please just stayon this continent, Don't go,
don't leave me.
But that was my kickstart intothe nonprofit world.
(20:52):
Well, this was more governmentwork and service focused, but it
relates a lot to nonprofitmission driven work and I was
hooked.
I totally diverged from mygenomics career and tried to
figure out, even after PeaceCorps, how I could continue
being connecting or being in theoutdoor industry and connecting
(21:16):
more girls to the outdoor world, and that's where I landed, at
Girl Scouts.
Tom Butler (21:22):
Going to Tanzania must have been a formative
experience and I'm kind ofwondering, like, what impact
that has had on you now in thework that you do.
Is there a way to capture that,do you think, or is it just too
hard of a question?
Liz Lunderman (21:38):
So many people have asked me this.
And even today, what, six yearslater, I still haven't had a
good answer.
Peace Corps was the bestmoments of my life and some of
the most challenging moments ofmy life, and I love Itangule,
(22:00):
where the community that I wasteaching at and Tanzania so much
as such a special place in myheart, and I can't wait to go
back.
I really want to ride my bike.
I want to do some bikepackingtrips over and visit my best
friend from over there, upendo.
She was the second headmistress at my school.
We became really close and Ithink it would be really cool to
(22:22):
see Tanzania on a bike, so oneday that will happen for me.
Peace Corps overall.
There's two things in life thathas really had a significant
change, those very serendipitousmoments, peace Corps being one
of them.
And then the first time Ibought my mountain bike and
learned how to mountain bike.
Tom Butler (22:40):
You mentioned Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance
and I'm curious what being partof that organization taught you
about cycling in the PacificNorthwest.
Liz Lunderman (22:52):
I think it predates Evergreen in a little
bit.
My move to Washington story isone of my favorite stories and
anyone who's gone to an eventwith Evergreen probably has
heard me share this story.
But I was living in Californiawhen COVID hit and my job had
(23:15):
gone remote.
There wasn't much like keepingme there in California and I
bought my mountain bike.
It was a high tower, santa Cruzhigh tower.
I bought it three days before Ihit the road.
I was going to do a road tripback to New York, stay with my
sister to figure out the nextmove, and a friend of mine
called me up and said Liz,you've never been to Washington,
you should come up and visit it.
I think you're going to reallylike it.
Just, you know, from California, come up to Washington and then
(23:38):
go to New York.
We drove up, it was three daysand I make it to Port Gamble on
the first day and I get mymountain bike out and I was over
the moon, just that feeling ofexcitement and thrill and seeing
the Olympic mountains and theCascade mountains all in one
trip.
And you're right there on thesound and the Puget sound, and
(24:02):
my Subaru's transmission blewand I didn't want to replace it
again because this would be thesecond time.
So I scrapped the car.
I stayed with my friend until Ibought my Tacoma and by the
time I made that decision I fellin love with Washington.
I never made it to New York myparents were super sad but I
(24:23):
fell in love with mountainbiking and met my best friend,
tay, and both of those thingskept me here.
And through there I met theMisfits, which is all women's
mountain bike crew.
They're more downhill gravityfocused, but through there I
continued to meet people thatpushed me slowly and more
(24:44):
closely to Evergreen and we, tayand I, decided to sign up for
the Cascadia Dirt Cup series.
So we did six mountain bikeenduro races that summer and
some of their funds went back toEvergreen.
So Evergreen started to weaveits way more into my life and
I'm like, okay, what is thistrail organization about?
(25:05):
They maintain trails.
What does trail advocacy mean?
What does advocacy in the bikeindustry mean?
And then they put on an allwomen's dig day out at raging
river and I was invited to goand I showed up.
And it's Red Bull athletes andall these amazing women that
I've been following on Instagram, all these influencers.
(25:26):
There's like we're learning howto build trail and connecting
shuttling that day and rightthen and there I walked up to
Patrick Walker, who was thedevelopment director at the time
, and I said, patrick, I want ajob.
And five months later I wasworking for them as their MarCom
manager.
And you really see the passionthat people have for the cycling
(25:50):
industry when you work for abike advocacy organization.
You have super volunteers whoare getting out there day and
day night working on the trails.
Our executive director, yvonneKrause at the time former
executive director, yvonneKrause she was going advocating
for all sorts of stuff to helppush funds to get maintenance
(26:14):
for across Washington and ourtrails director, david
Fleischauer, really helping getnew projects on the ground and
also thinking about maintenancefor trails.
And then our crew was in chargeof eventually, was in charge of
eventually I moved intooverseeing our largest chapter,
(26:34):
the Cascades to Sound chapter,which is King County, snohomish
County and Pierce County, andthe community had started to ask
for more community events.
So Evergreen was really focusedon the trail project side of
things building new trail,maintaining trail and our
community wanted community and Iam biased but I believe the
(26:57):
epicenter of community is eventsand our team started developing
new events for Evergreen andnow we have some pretty keystone
events like Shovel and Shred,which is all women and
non-binary dig day with Red BullDoothy Jam, which is getting
(27:18):
youth out to Doothy to dodifferent education pieces and
then like jumping pieces, andthen also Spring Fling, which is
getting over 100 folks out tohelp maintain the trails out
there getting over a hundredfolks out to help maintain the
trails out there.
So that was my first timetaking a blank slate and saying
what does the community want interms of events, how is this
(27:41):
team going to create it and howare we going to implement it?
And then, how do we make surethat it lasts in the future?
And so we went in and built allthe structures, designed the
events from the ground up, andnow that I'm at Cascade and I
see those events continue to runand people really stoked about
(28:03):
them and resharing it that'swhat gets me teary of.
Like.
This is incredible and that'swhat Cascade is doing as well.
And this year, with our two newevents coming up Revolution
Ride, which is our all-womennon-binary ride around Lake
Sammamish, and then the IronHorse Gravel Ride Cascade went
(28:24):
to the community and was likewhat do people want?
Where are our gaps, what areour needs?
And so, building the womennon-binary community in cycling,
bringing us together.
And then the iron horse gravelride, where we're seeing so many
more cyclists step into gravelriding, and providing an event
(28:46):
that can be a touch point for,whether it's an intro to gravel
ride or just highlighting thePalooza cascade trail, it's
really, really cool to see us goin that direction.
Tom Butler (29:00):
Now, I don't do mountain biking, for one thing.
I don't need another categoryof bicycling stuff to buy.
Oh, your wife is like you don'tneed any more bikes, tom I mean,
we're looking, the next bikewe're getting is getting her a
bike.
So it's kind of like get you abike, get me a bike, but anyhow,
(29:21):
um, so I don't see that scene.
Um, I feel like, you know, andI'm very biased, I'm sure, but I
feel like Washington is aunique place for cycling, you
know, when you look at, you know, and I hope we can maintain
this focus on investment in bikeinfrastructure, you know, and
(29:45):
then you have Cascade BicycleClub, which is such a huge
organization, you know, anddoing really great things, and
I'm wondering if you would saythat Washington State, from a
mountain bike perspective also,is like a premier location in
(30:06):
the United States.
Liz Lunderman (30:08):
Yeah, To me Washington is the New Zealand of
the United States.
Right, you have the mostamazing terrain, whether it's
like the Mecca of mountainbiking in Washington state.
Our gravel trails in Washingtonstate are booming and so
(30:32):
beautiful, I think, like thefirst ones that come to my mind
the discovery trail out in theOlympic peninsula, and then the
Palouse to Cascades trail, allthe gravel rides up in Winthrop
and and all the road access thatwe have.
And with Washington being thetop cycling state, it's so easy
(30:56):
to say that right and get behindit, and that's why Cascades
here and the largest bikeadvocacy nonprofit based in
Washington.
Tom Butler (31:05):
Yeah, it's great.
I feel really fortunate to behere, you know, because there's
so much of that to enjoy.
Liz Lunderman (31:13):
And so much access.
People are traveling toWashington State to bike because
of the infrastructure we havehere, and that's what Kade's
also trying to do with IronHorse.
This is an opportunity forfolks to step into Washington
state not necessarily residents,but also folks who want a taste
(31:35):
of what gravel riding is outhere.
When you bike up the SnoqualmieValley, oh my gosh, it is
stunning.
Tom Butler (31:43):
The scenery is incredible and so when you say,
when you say, bike up theSnoqualmie Valley, you know,
give a little more of thatpicture You're going from where
to where when you're biking upthe Snoqualmie Valley.
Give a little more of thatpicture You're going from where
to where when you're biking upthe Snoqualmie Valley.
Liz Lunderman (31:58):
Absolutely so.
For the Iron Horse we'restarting in Snoqualmie and then
we bike up the Snoqualmie ValleyTrail to Rattlesnake Lake.
Have you been to RattlesnakeLake?
Tom Butler (32:08):
Yes, yes.
Liz Lunderman (32:09):
Yes, it's gorgeous.
You're just looking out overthis beautiful lake, you have
Rattlesnake Ridge towering overit and the Cascades right behind
you.
So on this ride, that'll be thefirst snack break for folks to
hang out and take in the scenery.
And then you hop onto thePalouse to Cascades Trail and,
since it's a railroad gradetrail, you have this really
(32:31):
steady incline, which soenjoyable for anyone who loves
gravel riding, and you're goingthrough this beautiful forest up
the Snoqualmie Valley.
So, past North Bend Pass allthe way up to Snoqualmie Pass,
and that's where we're going tohave lunch on this ride up at
(32:53):
HIAC, and lunch is going to beprovided by Summit at Snoqualmie
, which is awesome because we'rehelping bring in economic
stimulus to our ruralcommunities and partnering with
local organizations, and that'salso what part of these rides is
is cultivating rural tourism aswell.
And so once you get hot lunchup there, you start, you
(33:16):
continue on the Palooza CascadesTrail, and this I used to live
up at Hayek.
I lived there for about a yearand a half in this tiny little
cabin and I would take my gravelbike and I would ride the
length of Kachilis and back, andevery single moment I'm looking
around, I'm looking at themountains, I'm looking at the
lake and I'm like how do I livehere?
This is beautiful and I'm soexcited for our riders to
(33:41):
experience those moments.
And, who knows, maybe you'llsee some wildlife up there too.
Tom Butler (33:47):
That's really possible yeah so it's uh.
So really, what you're talkingabout is so I-90 is the main
thoroughfare that goes up andover the cascades.
And you're, you're going, youknow, not right beside that, but
you're kind of going parallel.
And you're, you're going, youknow, not right beside that, but
you're kind of going parallel,and you get to, you basically
get to climb over a mountainrange climb up a mountain range
(34:09):
and it is stunning.
What's the mileage on the onthe route?
Liz Lunderman (34:14):
So round trip we have 62 miles and that's 31
miles the first day, 31 milesthe second day and then 2,227
feet of elevation gain at asteady rate.
And the cool thing about thisride is the first day is the
hardest right, because you haveto pedal up and you have the
(34:34):
tunnel to go through, which isdark and you're like water cold,
cool water dripping down.
You might have some potholesand for this specific ride, we
will be giving out lights forriders as a giveaway and part of
the registration to be able tobike through the tunnel with
their light.
We do highly recommend addingextra lights, but that's the
(34:58):
cool challenge of this rideright Going through the tunnel,
you camp out at Whispering PinesRV Park.
So after you do day one andfinish your 31 miles and the
hill and the tunnel, super proudof yourself, you get to hang
out with everyone at WhisperingPines RV Park.
We're going to have a barbecue.
Our executive director, leeLambert.
He's going to be slinginghamburgers and hot dogs, hanging
(35:21):
out with folks.
And then the next day you goall downhill.
So you get up, you have a warmbreakfast and then you head back
down to North Bend and it is afun all downhill ride, so that's
what makes this ride reallyunique and awesome.
Tom Butler (35:39):
Some people listening might not be familiar
with the Cascade Palouse Trail.
I wonder if you could talk alittle about that trail.
You're on part of it, butthere's a lot of that trail.
Liz Lunderman (35:52):
So this is a really historical trail.
It used to be one of therailroads that was actively used
and eventually turned into thePalooza Cascades Trail.
And the Palooza Cascades Trailis 250 miles across Washington
state, which is incredible.
So this is just a short pieceof what this trail is.
(36:13):
The Iron Horse gravel ride isgoing on a Monday and Tuesday,
so for all the folks who areworking in tech, you can play
hooky for those two days and getout into nature, because this
whole ride is really aboutimmersing yourself into nature
and hitting that flow meditativestate on your ride.
(36:35):
Yeah, so getting out there,away from the city, you're
immersed in nature.
This gravel route is reallysmooth.
You'll need thicker tires, soif you haven't gravel road
before you'll.
On our webpage, we have a lotof information that can help
with directing you to any tipsthat you'll need for gravel
riding.
We also have a gravel ridewebinar coming up as well that
(36:58):
you can sign up for on ourwebsite to help answer all of
your questions and prep you forgravel riding.
If that's something that youwant to foray into, which we
highly recommend, we'd love tosee you there.
Tom Butler (37:10):
There is the Winthrop Gravel Tour.
Talk about kind of thedifference.
What does this provide that yousee as somewhat different from
the Winthrop gravel tour?
Liz Lunderman (37:24):
Yeah, so the Winthrop gravel tour is a longer
, multi-day gravel tour and withthe Iron Horse this is an
opportunity to do something alittle smaller, so it's two days
instead of three and it's alsocloser to the King County
Seattle area, so you don't haveto travel so far, and with
(37:44):
Winthrop it's a four to fivehour drive to get there and then
a multi-day trip.
And here, with Seattle being soclose to North Bend, you get to
explore your backyard and youcan do it within a short hour
drive from the city into NorthBend.
(38:05):
We support the ride entirelywith a baggage truck, so you
don't have to put anything onyour bike and it's not bike
packing, you get to throw itinto the truck.
We have all of our SAG vehiclesand outriders to support with
medical and minor injuries alongthe route, so you have a ton of
support.
(38:25):
And then, with 31 miles thefirst day and then 31 miles the
second day, all downhill, it'sreally attainable for beginners.
Yeah.
Tom Butler (38:36):
Yeah, I like it.
So people are camping and itsounds like they're going to be
kind of going to be at a placethat is a campground.
If I understand what you'resaying, you know, like STP,
(38:58):
where there's a lot of differentways, we've always went out, or
the last two years we've wentout and camping and have stayed
in a hotel, or I should say Ihave, but this is, and then like
something on STP, you're goingthrough a lot of areas where
(39:18):
there's mini-marts and stufflike that, and that's not, I'm
sure, the Cascade Palouse Trail.
You're not passing a bunch ofmini-marts on the way.
Liz Lunderman (39:28):
So it seems like… no, it's passing many, many
trees and, like some mountains.
Tom Butler (39:35):
Right.
Logistically that seems like avery different thing to pull off
than like an STP, because ofthe remoteness of it.
I guess one of the biggestelements it's like apples and
oranges STP.
Liz Lunderman (39:53):
you know, some of the biggest logistical
challenges is how do you get5,000 riders and their bikes
back from Portland to Seattle?
How do you get 5,000?
riders and their bikes back fromPortland to Seattle and here
for the iron horse.
Some of the biggest logisticalchallenges are permitting
working with state parks awonderful partner of ours to get
(40:14):
things all settled in, and thecool thing about this ride is
there's access points for anytype of emergency, for our
volunteers to be able to supportfolks with mechanicals or
whatnot, and also prepping folksfor the tunnel and having them
(40:38):
understand that it is going tobe pitch black.
You might not have any sense ofwhere you're at, and it's one
of those experiences that youcan only get here.
I think the first longesttunnel is over in Europe and
then here it's the second one inthe entire world so that you
can bike through.
So it's good.
(41:00):
That's a really cool experienceto have.
Our team is so excited for thisevent because it's also an
event that we want to do right,so we're really looking forward
to sharing it with other people.
Tom Butler (41:14):
Well, I just love it that that part of Washington,
that part of our region, isbeing promoted and people can
experience it, because it isunique and it is cool.
I'm a little bit nervous aboutthe heat.
Have you guys talked about that?
(41:35):
Do you think the elevation willmediate that a bit, or what
have you been talking about that?
Liz Lunderman (41:43):
will mediate that a bit, or what do you?
What have you been talkingabout that?
Yeah, with all of our snackstops and lunch stops, we have
hydration and food there forfolks and you're in the shaded
gravel trail right.
You're deep in the woods asyou're going through up the
valley and that's going toprovide a lot of maybe some yeah
, some shade and whatnot.
But we have a ton of supportfor riders on on the trail and
(42:07):
when I've biked out there in thesummer, especially along
Kachilis, you're pacing yourself.
Well, you have a lot of peoplearound you, especially with a
cascade event and 200 plusriders gravel riding with you.
You're not alone and eventhough it's you're, you're
pushing your body and you mightfeel that heat.
(42:28):
You have so much support andyou get to suffer together.
Tom Butler (42:36):
I like it.
That's part of communitybuilding.
Liz Lunderman (42:39):
Yeah, that camaraderie.
Oh, we did this ride and we'reso dusty and we can't wait to
tell.
Tom Butler (42:47):
Lee, we want a hamburger and a seltzer.
Liz Lunderman (42:50):
at the end of this ride there's lakes you can
jump into as well, you could getinto Rattlesnake Lake, cachilis
Lake, cool off a bit and keepon going.
Tom Butler (43:02):
And those lakes are cold.
I think right.
Liz Lunderman (43:04):
They're pretty chill.
Yeah, they're definitely coolerthan the air.
Tom Butler (43:09):
Yes, now that sounds awesome.
Liz Lunderman (43:12):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (43:13):
You talked about some information on the website.
If someone's which I think ispossible that there's people
that don't camp with their bikeOne, are there some options?
Could they bring a motor homeand park it?
Or is there information on thewebsite that's going to help
(43:34):
them understand what to bring?
They don't have to pack it ontheir bike.
There's going to be someone'sgoing to transport that for them
, but are there going to be someways that they can get help
just thinking about what theyshould bring for the night?
Liz Lunderman (43:50):
Absolutely.
If you head to cascadeorg andunder our rides and events you
go to the Iron Horse Ride,there's a full frequently asked
questions page.
So it talks a lot about gravelriding and the question of what
kind of bike do I need to beriding on, what gear should I
bring with me and is thissuitable for?
(44:11):
If you're a newbie orinexperienced, is this suitable
for you?
And how to prep for this event?
Can you use e-bike on this ride?
Questions like that.
And it also talks about thelogistics.
So camping is available at theWhispering Pines RV Park, which
is our official midpoint.
This includes tent spaces andlikely to set up multiple tents
(44:36):
as well.
So if you have any friendscoming and you're like, hey,
let's play hooky from worktogether and just say the common
flu is going around and y'allcome out, you can tent all
together and be with friends andthere's access to showers and
bathrooms and other parkamenities, so that's really
(44:57):
great.
You can also do an alternativewhere you have.
There's several motels up therein Clay Elam, including the
Timber Lodge Inn, the Astor Inn,and you can look into.
If you are feeling bougie andwant that hotel room, you can
hit up those spaces as well.
Tom Butler (45:15):
It sounds like a typical Cascade ride where you
guys have thought about so much.
So I think that you know peoplecan expect that go to the
website and you can get a lot ofinformation, and then, like you
had mentioned, the conferencecalls and different ways of
getting information and I, youknow, or sending an email.
(45:35):
I know that cascade is reallyresponsive to all those things,
absolutely.
Liz Lunderman (45:41):
Absolutely, and if there's any type of question
that folks have and they've goneto the frequently asked
questions and you just want totalk to someone on the team,
including myself, you can emailus and we'll respond back to you
.
Yeah.
Tom Butler (46:01):
What is it that you hope that riders will take away
from this event?
Do you see it as something thatcan have a lasting impression?
Liz Lunderman (46:10):
Yeah, tom, that goes back to those first moments
of myself biking.
There's this wonderful lecturethat I went to when I was
working at Girl Scouts and itwas called maximizing
serendipity and outdooradventure and it talked about
how do you take the moments inan outdoor experience whether
(46:32):
that's seeing an Eagle in thesky or you have a mechanical on
a bike ride and then how do youturn that into ripple effects in
someone's life.
And with the events of Cascadeand specifically this ride of
Iron Horse gravel ride beingsuper unique in a very beautiful
(46:53):
historical place in this valley, there's bound to be moments of
serendipity, that, whether it'slike a connection, a new friend
, a new riding partner, a momentwhere a rider was really proud
of themselves for pushingthrough up this huge valley and
not thinking that they were ableto do it and then doing it, or
(47:14):
seeing a part of Washington thatthey haven't experienced before
, with the support of Cascadeand so many other riders, I'm
hoping that folks walk away fromthis weekend with those ripple
effects of oh.
Tours are now my thing.
I love gravel riding.
I want to go to Winthrop, Iwant to go to Walla Walla, I
(47:36):
want to go to Port Townsend, Iwant to go to Lake Chelan, which
is all of our different toursthat we're going to this year,
and I'm hoping that it can be aspark point for folks to find an
activity that gives themmeditative moments, connective
moments and a space to step awayfrom the chaos of the everyday
(48:01):
grind and, um, it's like such abeautiful way to to experience
and take up time in life.
Tom Butler (48:10):
Yeah, this might be a difficult question to to
answer, but I'm wondering, ifyou know, there's a lot of clubs
out there that aren't the sizeof the cast of cascade bicycle
club and don't have theresources that cascade bicycle
club has, and I'm wondering ifthere might be some thoughts
(48:32):
that you have for smaller clubsabout how can they create
awesome events.
You know what are some of thekey things that you might think
about.
Liz Lunderman (48:44):
Absolutely.
The first thing that comes to meis organize community rides and
not just like the grassrootsorganization of community rides
which is awesome that's howCascade started Make them
inclusive, so offering rides fordifferent abilities, different
(49:05):
types of folks, different typesof folks and really helping
bring new people into cycling.
Because creating those touchpoints for folks to step into
the cycling world can createlong-lasting super volunteers,
members to help grow theorganization long-term.
(49:25):
And I've seen smallerorganizations have huge success
with doing this.
And I don't know if you've heardof the case of the Mondays, but
last year this group partneredwith a rec cafe over in North
Bend and they started offeringgroup rides on Wednesdays for
folks just to get out on theSnoqualmie Valley Trail and by
(49:49):
the end of the year they'reseeing between 60 and a hundred
riders out there of alldifferent skill sets and some it
would be folks first time doinga group gravel ride and those
little pieces of making itinclusive and a touch point for
different folks but alsobringing in your friends and
(50:10):
something to do after work hasreally like I think that grows
community and can helporganizations elevate their
member basis.
And then you have folks who cangive you feedback on what they
want to see and what do yourmembers want.
What do you, what does yourcommunity want in um, in being
(50:33):
able to get together and sign upfor events, which is where we
ended up with our revolutionride.
We had women and non-binaryfolks wanting a ride to connect
with each other.
And then the iron horse ride,where we wanted a gravel ride
for folks to step into graveland kind of test it out.
Tom Butler (50:51):
You talked about super volunteers and I think you
know, and a shout out to allyou super volunteers out there,
you know, I think that that'ssuch a vital part of the, you
know, of any successful event,of any successful club.
Liz Lunderman (51:06):
Absolutely, and these are people who are so
passionate about the cyclingcommunity that they volunteer
their resources, huge chunks oftheir time, to support putting
on these events and rides,because they believe in the
mission of Cascade so much andwhat bicycles can bring to
(51:27):
people's lives.
And, at the end of the day, weall just want to ride bikes.
It's an opportunity to do thattoo.
Tom Butler (51:38):
What excites you about the future of Cascade
events?
Is there a vision that you guysare looking at and wanting to
bring about?
Liz Lunderman (51:48):
Gosh, there's so much because there's so much
opportunity.
You know it's not lost on methat in this role I have very
big shoes to fill with DaveDouglas building up the events
team and the event schedule forCascade, and so we're sitting on
a lot of legacy and this is anew era for the events
(52:11):
department at Cascade.
We have a really awesome team.
A lot of folks are new, comingonto the team with a lot of new
ideas and I think it's startingwith these two new rides and
collecting our feedback and datafrom our members and the folks
who go on our rides to be ableto look at that and say in three
(52:33):
years, and even next year, 2026, what do we want to build from
there?
And we really want to make itrider-centric.
So, yeah, what does ourcommunity want?
And then we continue to tell ourstory so that when people step
into registration and evenmaking donations through our
(52:54):
event registration, people canfeel good about joining these
because it's going back tosupporting our advocacy and
education initiatives.
Gascade is so much more thanriding your bike.
It's elevating other peopleyouth, BIPOC folks, our women,
non-binary folks, ruralcommunities to get on bikes as
(53:17):
well.
It's not, it's not just a ride.
It's, it's making sure everyoneelse has access to bikes.
Tom Butler (53:26):
Yeah, and I love to see those things going on.
You know that educationalcomponent.
I think that's so awesome.
So how about you personally?
What are some goals that youhave?
Do you are you going to betaking on some challenges, or do
you have future rides that youwant to do?
Liz Lunderman (53:45):
Yeah, prof oh I'll go professionally my
personal and professional goalis to continue to build up the
women and non-binary communitywithin cycling, and not just for
creating community and spaceand especially with the rebel
revolution ride and continuingto build off of that event, but
(54:09):
also being able to bringcommunities together in that
space and creating a pipelinefor women into the outdoor
industry, into leadership roles,and being able to be an example
of that myself and share thatenthusiasm and uplift other
(54:33):
women, non-binary folks intothis space.
Because it is incredible butyounger me didn't have the role
model I wanted to see.
I didn't know that women I likethink of that.
Back to that little girl in thebackyard of the Stickley
factory watching guys jump anddidn't have that representation.
And now to to see other womenin, like the live global
(54:58):
marketing section and havingJuliana be an all women mountain
bike brand and women just likekicking ass, doing all these
really cool things, breakingceilings especiallyannah bergman
as well with red bull, havingred bull rampage go off for the
first year, with women racing.
(55:19):
We're in this really cool timewhere there's so much left to do
and with the space here withcascade, being able to help even
build that pipeline or thatpathway for folks to get into
the industry as well, sopersonally, that's where I would
want to go I love it on a bike.
(55:42):
I do have a six-day trip inoaxaca coming up, that's cool.
Yeah, stp is definitely onthere, and some more multi-day
gravel rides.
Tom Butler (55:54):
Nice.
Liz Lunderman (55:55):
Including Iron Horse.
I'll be out there, so I wouldlove to meet all of you out on
the trail.
Please come say hi, don't beafraid.
If you see me out there, belike Liz, let's ride.
I want to talk to you a littlebit about something, or I want
to hear your stories too.
What are, what are your awesomewriting stories and your goals
for the for the year?
So?
Tom Butler (56:16):
perfect.
Well, liz, thank you so muchfor taking the time to do this.
I have to say I've become a LizLunderman fan over this podcast
, so you know I'm glad thatyou're in the position that
you're in.
I think I'm really're in theposition that you're in.
I think I'm really lookingforward to seeing what you're
doing there at Cascade andseeing the events come about.
And thanks for sharing yourperspective and some of your
(56:40):
background and just yourexcitement for cycling here.
Liz Lunderman (56:44):
Absolutely, tom.
Thank you so much.
It's been such a pleasuretalking with you and I think in
this timeframe where screens aretaking up so much of our life,
social media is taking up somuch of our life, the
opportunity to cycle withfriends and family and new
people out in Washington throughcascade is one of the most
(57:09):
transformative and magicalthings that we could do.
So I thank you so much forgiving us the platform to share
what we do in our story and,yeah, Well, my pleasure, and I'm
sure at some event I'll get tosee you and say hi in person.
Absolutely, I'd love it All.
Tom Butler (57:27):
Right Bye now.
As a member of Cascade BicycleClub and someone who contributes
to the organization regularly,it is wonderful that we have a
leader like Liz in charge ofevents.
The whole team there obviouslyloves seeing people impacted by
(57:48):
the events they do.
I believe that the Iron Horsegravel ride is going to be a
special experience and I justhave to see if I can work it
into my schedule to do the eventthis summer.
I forgot to ask Liz during theinterview if she thought the
ride would fill up fast, butlater she said that she thought
the response of people indicatedthat it would most likely sell
out.
(58:15):
I want to give you some detailsabout the route.
Ride with GPS shows that dayone has 3,151 feet of elevation
gain.
That happens over the first 30miles of the day.
Day two has 2,227 feet ofelevation gain.
That happens over the first 32miles.
There are so many cool thingsabout this ride and I really
hope I can make it work.
Hopefully, all of you have someexciting rides you're looking
forward to this season, whetheryou are touring new cities or
(58:37):
experiencing the wilderness atbike speed.
I hope you have some greatexperiences and great people
with whom to share them andremember age is just a gear
change.
This is the Cycling Over 60 podcast, season 3,
episode 26,.
The Iron Horse Gravel Ride, andI'm your host, tom Butler.
This weekend we are doing ourfirst ride on the Olympic
(00:26):
Discovery Trail.
We're only doing a shortsection of 10 miles next to Lake
Crescent near Port Angeles,washington.
Riding the Olympic DiscoveryTrail is one of the goals that I
had set for this season of thepodcast and I'm really looking
forward to it.
Eventually, I want to do all137 miles of the trail in one
trip.
This trip is the first timeKelly will be riding this year
(00:48):
and I'm looking forward to usgetting back on the road
together.
We have decided that for now,she is going to get the most
enjoyment out of doing paved,dedicated trails and staying off
the road.
Of course, that still gives usplenty to explore.
Like most people, kelly and Ihave a struggle between our
desire to be out on someadventure with the reality that
we have so many other things todo on the weekends.
(01:08):
For example, we tend to gardenthat isn't on our property, and
weekends are prime gardeningtime.
So even though we shouldprobably be putting plants in
this weekend, we're off toexperience the wilderness.
For me, one of the hardestaspects of staying active is
simply pushing back other tasks.
Now the truth is, we actuallydon't have a lot of the demands
that many people have, and we'relucky in that way, and staying
(01:30):
active is a health necessity forme now.
So skipping cycling is likeskipping surgery or some other
life-saving treatment.
Both Kelly and I see it as thatimportant, and sometimes that
still is not enough andsomething gets in the way.
I believe we aren't even closeyet to building a society here
in the US where activity isvalued as it should be.
(01:52):
I'm hoping that what we aretrying to build here locally
with Cycling Over 60 willcontribute in some way to
shifting the social norms aroundactivity.
Riding with my family isextremely important to me,
staying active, and Kellyunderstands that and feels the
same way.
This makes it important to makeriding together as enjoyable as
possible.
Pedal assist is a huge reasonthat we can ride more together.
(02:13):
Kelly is never going to put inthe miles that I put in, and
it's great that pedal assisthelps us stay together.
As I mentioned, we are lookingfor ways that we can avoid roads
.
We just don't like interactingwith cars.
Paid bike trails are one way ofdoing this, but we want to try
doing more gravel rides.
In order to do this, I thinkwe're going to need to get Kelly
a different bike.
We still need to experiencemore gravel to really know for
(02:37):
sure, but it seems like hercruise bike is going to bounce
her around too much on gravel.
She got the cruise bike becauseshe was uncomfortable in a
normal cycling position, so weare going to have to look hard
for something that works for her.
Currently, I think that we'lltry a bike that has front
suspension and put a red shiftsuspension seat post on it.
I haven't actually heard fromanyone who uses a suspension
(02:58):
seat post, but I am hopeful itwill help.
If you or someone you ride withuses one, drop me a text.
I would love to know if peoplefind them helpful.
I would love to know if peoplefind them helpful.
One of the factors that we couldbe dealing with is tariff
pricing on new bikes.
Bike Retailer, an industry newssource, recently reported that
Specialized Bicycles informedretailers that they will list an
(03:22):
additional tariff charge on aseparate line item on invoices
for at least one of their bikesafter May 1st.
Of course, that probably meansthat tariff surcharge will be
passed on to the customers.
I guess they didn't get thememo that China was paying all
the tariffs.
I hope that we don't find thatall bike prices are being
adjusted to account for thetrade war.
One of the more intriguingoptions I've seen is the Canyon
(03:44):
Grizzle OnFly.
It is a front suspensione-gravel bike with a seat post
that is like a leaf spring.
We're definitely checking thatout and we're only beginning to
figure out what we need toconsider when we're looking at
bikes.
This spring I've been doingmostly flat routes, but that is
going to have to change so I canbe ready for some of the rides
(04:04):
I'm doing this summer.
I feel some confidence withthis now because I'm going into
my third year of riding hills toget prepped for STP, but I
still don't look forward to thephysical pain I feel while
climbing.
If you are someone that enjoysthat kind of challenge, I tip my
hat to you.
It'll be interesting to see ifmy legs adapt to climbing faster
this year.
It's nice that I have some datafrom the last two years so that
(04:26):
I can compare.
However, the first year I wason a different bike and the
climbing experience was quitedifferent.
I recently ran across an articleonline that said that hills are
not harder than cycling on theflat.
The word not was all in caps,so I guess that shows they are
really serious about thatstatement.
The article is an older one,but I wanted to check out what
they had to say.
Here's the gist of the argumentPower is power, so if you are
(04:50):
doing 150 watts going up a hill,it is the same as doing 150
watts on the flats.
The author's approach toclimbing hills is simply getting
into a lower gear and stayingat the same wattage.
Obviously there's some validityto that point, but the logic
seems to break down in a coupleways for me.
First, when I'm on a flat, I'mpushing 200 pounds forward and
(05:12):
that means if I ease off thepedals, I keep going for a while
because of momentum.
If you ask AI about it, you geta very complicated formula that
makes some assumption and spitsout formula that makes some
assumption and spits out 896feet of coasting if I hit 15
miles per hour before lettingoff the pedals.
I doubt I will try to confirmthat, but I do know.
(05:33):
If I'm on a 10% grade or higherand I stop pedaling, I coast
approximately zero feet.
That makes a big difference, nomatter what gear I'm in.
A second issue is that when Iget above a 7% grade, matter
what gear I'm in.
A second issue is that when Iget above a 7% grade I'm already
in the lowest gear I have onthe Roubaix.
I guess you could argue that Imight need to change gearing in
that case.
But there's also an issue ofgoing so slow that I start to
(05:55):
lose the ability to steer.
For now it seems like climbinghills is definitely going to be
harder than riding on a flat forme.
I am quite curious about whatpower I'm putting out on some of
the climbs I do, but Icurrently don't have any plans
to buy something that would helpme figure that out on my road
bikes.
I got an email from Paul Tomeiat Cascade Bicycle Club that
(06:24):
they are adding another gravelride option for this summer
called the Iron Horse GravelRide.
It sounds like a fantastic rideand I wanted to have someone
from Cascade on to talk about it.
Fortunately, liz Lunderman, therelatively new events director
at Cascade Bicycle Club, agreedto come on.
I'm so glad she did because itgave me an opportunity to get to
know her a bit and ask aboutthe ride.
(06:46):
I like bringing on CascadeBicycle Club leaders, because I
think people in the cyclingcommunity can glean some really
good ideas from the work thatthey do.
Here's my conversation with Liz.
I am pleased to welcome LizLunderman from Cascade Bicycle
Club to join me today.
Thanks for being here, liz.
Liz Lunderman (07:03):
I'm so happy and excited to be here with you, Tom
.
Tom Butler (07:06):
You are relatively new to Cascade Bicycle Club and
the club recently announced whatI think is an exciting new ride
, so I thought it would be greatto bring you on to learn a bit
more.
Now I'm going to start with aquestion that I typically start
with, and that is what are yourearliest memories of the bicycle
?
Liz Lunderman (07:24):
I have been going back into my memories.
My first memories are inGermany.
My dad's in the military, so Iwas born in Japan, lived in
Germany and that's where Istarted on the little trike.
But one of the more significantearly memories is in the summer
, during my high schoolexperience.
(07:45):
I told my mom I didn't want togo to summer camps and I just
wanted to stay and ride bikeswith my friends.
And so for the whole summer itwas a whole crew of us and I
have never felt more giddy,powerful, just rolling around
the town of Manlius with myfriends and there was an old
stickly factory for furnituremaking and behind there there
(08:07):
was a little forest and they hadjump lines and trails back
there and we'd all watch theguys hit the jumps and my
girlfriends and I would sitthere and just watch them and be
like, oh, that's not for us,we're going to sit over here.
I still like older me kicksmyself and I wish that I got in
(08:27):
there with the guys when I wasyoung and learned how to jump.
Yeah, and then after that highschool summer, cruised around on
.
It was a like a walmart bikeand I remember it had the, the
frame that didn't connect toitself and then it had a coil
shock on it.
It's very interesting, yeah,but then I took a hiatus from
(08:49):
biking for a little while.
I decided to start travelingwhen I went to college and, yeah
, I didn't really pick up a bikeuntil I moved to washington
okay.
Tom Butler (08:57):
Several times people have talked about early
experiences and I love thispicture of kids kind of in a
group, out, you know, roamingaround, doing stuff, having
mobility together.
I just think that's a wonderfulimage of the bicycle.
Yeah, it's very like stand byme now and then feel yeah, and I
(09:21):
hope that you know these daysgirls are looking at that and
going, I'm going to, I'm goingto go out on that track you know
I hope we're getting thatmessage out.
Liz Lunderman (09:30):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's been throughout from
college until now.
A huge part of my career hasbeen dedicated to getting more
women and non-binary folks outon bikes, so that little me
watching those boys hitting thejumps.
We have more girls andnon-binary folks getting out
(09:50):
there and hitting those.
Tom Butler (09:52):
How long have you been at Cascade and what
attracted you to theorganization?
Liz Lunderman (09:58):
I haven't been at Cascade very long.
My start date was January 9th,2025.
So this year and previously Iwas with Evergreen Mountain Bike
Alliance, and my mission mypersonal mission in life is to
make the trails and the roadfeel like home for everyone on a
(10:19):
bike, and with Evergreen Ilearned so much with the
organization.
My closest friends are there, Ihave some chosen family there
and when I was looking atCascade Bicycle Club and the
event director position becameopen, I realized that my passion
for mountain biking could beelevated to more cyclists.
(10:43):
So gravel riding, road cyclingand Cascade's mission to get
everyone on bikes is amazing.
That's like the core of whatwe're doing over at Cascade and
what I want to see the worldkind of move towards as well.
(11:03):
So, yeah, I decided to apply forthe position and I couldn't be
happier here with the Cascadefamily.
They've been so warm andwelcoming.
The events team is incredible.
I wish I could introduce themall to everyone because they're
so passionate and hardworkingand they really believe in the
mission.
So it's really cool.
(11:24):
I do have some big shoes tofill, though Dave Douglas
building up the events seasonfor Cascade the past 53 years.
It's pretty awesome to have himas a mentor and learn from what
he's been able to create.
Tom Butler (11:40):
Now I'm thinking you had heard of Cascade.
You'd seen Cascade in the past,so what had you heard that you
thought was awesome as far asCascade as a community of
cyclists?
Liz Lunderman (11:58):
I think for a lot of people I'm in the same boat
where our first touch point forCascade was the Seattle to
Portland ride, scp, and I had aroommate at the time in Seattle
who was like Liz I know it'slast minute, but do you want to
do this 200 mile bike ride fromSeattle to Portland?
And I said hell, no, horribleidea.
(12:21):
And I trained up for it.
It did get me to their websiteand start poking around and all
their free group rides and theirother events like the chili
hilly and RSVP, and so that waskind of the first time I had
even thought about oh, could Iride my bike 200 miles?
(12:42):
And now that's a goal of mine,right?
Tom Butler (12:46):
so nice, so are you pursuing that this year?
Liz Lunderman (12:49):
oh, I hate to admit it, but as the event
director, I have to run theevent, you know I mean, that's
the, that's the hard thing aboutit, right?
Tom Butler (12:58):
so many cool things to do, and then you're really
busy those days yeah, yeah, uh,one of One of our event
producers, sarah Manti.
Liz Lunderman (13:05):
she's leading the charge and the event director
for STP, and I'll be supportingher and learning about the ins
and outs of the event, how we'regoing to elevate it for 2026.
But one year I feel like, asthe event director, I need to go
ride it and experience itmyself.
Tom Butler (13:26):
I think that's right .
Liz Lunderman (13:27):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (13:29):
STP is a large event and there's a lot of I think
impressive is the right word forevents like RSVP and the tours
and stuff.
What are some of the categoriesof resources that you need to
have to pull off rides like that?
Liz Lunderman (13:48):
first it's we're always asking the question of
permitting, location and parking, and so those are the three
main pieces of building an event.
And if it's even possible andwith stp it's had this amazing
growth and post-covid we'reseeing.
We're starting to see numbersof like this year.
(14:10):
We're about to have our largeststp post-covid, so we're
anticipating over 5 000 riderscoming out and and this is like
kind of the boring part of eventmanagement right, it's the
permitting, having the going outto do the pre-rides.
We have a full team that goesin and looks out routes and
(14:32):
there might be construction thisyear and so we'll have to do a
reroute and over the years wehave this really awesome event
storage unit where we've builtout and Dave has done so much
work to get it to this point allof our event supplies.
And I got to tell you some ofthe most grueling days isn't the
permitting but it's the packingthe trucks to get everything
(14:56):
out and then unloading thetrucks after four days of
putting on an event.
So there's a lot that goes intothe event planning and the
rewarding part is what I like tocall the event glow after,
where you think about all ofthose serendipitous moments that
people have had, whether it'sconnections with each other on
(15:18):
the event, or they had a flat orsome sort of mechanical issue
that they had to push throughand it was challenging but they
did it.
Or like the person who does the200 mile bike ride in one day
for STP and is so proud ofthemselves and um, it's those,
those moments.
That really is why I love eventmanagement and being here with
(15:43):
Gascade.
Does that answer the question?
Tom Butler (15:46):
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to tell you a story.
Liz Lunderman (15:48):
Okay.
Tom Butler (15:49):
But I'm actually trying not to get emotional
about this.
Liz Lunderman (15:53):
Oh, that's okay, we like being emotional over
here.
Tom Butler (15:57):
I want to like add to that.
You know, I did my first STP at60, where Cycling Over 60 kind
of was launched around thatwhole thing.
Thank you, thank you.
She's clapping for I know youcan't see, but she's clapping
for me, which is nice.
I actually didn't think I wasgoing to make it when I started
training.
I'm like you know, this isprobably too much.
(16:19):
And my wife was like this mightbe too much to you.
Know, you haven't been on abike for a long time.
You know Like this might be toomuch to you.
Know, you haven't been on abike for a long time, you know.
And so when I started training,it was a nice goal, but I
didn't know if I would make thatgoal.
And then so when I did it, itwas really powerful.
Liz Lunderman (16:34):
It's really awesome, Tom, and incredibly
inspiring.
Tom Butler (16:37):
Yeah, my wife and my daughter were there welcoming
me and I'm trying I'm holdingback tears right now, everyone
knows, but it was like in mylife, it just felt like such a
significant step to make.
So you know, that's part ofthat I think that you're talking
about is those experiences inwhat you guys unlock for people
(16:59):
to experience.
It's wonderful.
Liz Lunderman (17:07):
It's the sense of pride and that accomplishment
and knowing that and for me,when I started, when I moved
here and we can get into thisstory a little bit later, but I
started enduro racing withCascadia, the Cascadia Dirt Cup.
And enduro you bike up themountain and then you're timed
on the stages going down onthese mountain bike trails.
An enduro you bike up themountain and then your time down
the stage is going down onthese mountain bike trails.
(17:27):
And my first race I was sonervous and so terrified and I'm
pushing myself up the hill andin my head I'm thinking of all
the women in my life who arecheering me on, like my friend
Mandy, who I met in college, andshe, her and I have done some
crazy outdoor adventure stuff,like we did a Grand Canyon
(17:53):
backpacking trip over in thewinter for New Year's.
And all of my sturdy bitchracing friends over at the
Sturdy Dirty and my friendChrissy over at Donut Squad.
And cycling, whether it's roadcycling, gravel cycling,
mountain biking, anything andit's that community and the
connection and those types ofpeople that are cheering you on
and listening to you, tom, likeyour wife and kids supporting
(18:16):
you at the end of that ride.
What a powerful moment inmemory.
And it's really.
It brings people together.
So two wheels, man, it's.
There's a reason why it feelslike a cult sometimes.
I love it Feels like a cultsometimes.
Tom Butler (18:30):
I love it.
Now it seems like you've beenfocused a lot on outdoor
experiences, and how did thatinterest come about?
Liz Lunderman (18:39):
When I was really young I was 14 or so and a
friend's mom took my friend andI out to Mount Phelps in the
Adirondacks and I had no ideawhat a hike was, and it was on
the cusp of winter and I hadbrought my tennis shoes and
jeans you know, hoodie and westart on the hike and there's
(19:03):
massive puddles like total snowon the mountain.
My tennis shoes are going toget wet and we put plastic bags
on my feet and duct tape themaround my leg and then I slipped
them back into the tennis shoesand we put plastic bags on my
feet and duct tape them aroundmy leg and then I slipped them
back into the tennis shoes andher mom was like all right,
we're doing this, we're stillgoing, and we get up to the top
and it's this beautiful, sunnywinter wonderland and on the way
down we're sliding down thetrail on our butts because it's
(19:26):
all the snow and this was likeDisneyland.
For me.
It was incredible and I thinkit goes back to that sense of
pride and accomplishment and Iwas hooked from there.
And so in college I built out anonprofit inspired by Lindsay
Dyer.
(19:46):
She's a big skier and she cameout with the film Pretty Faces
and when I watched it I was like, wow, look at all these bad-ass
women getting out there doingthis for themselves.
And so that inspired me incollege to start Women in
Wilderness.
And it was helping connectyoung women in rural communities
to outdoor experiences likeknolls and outward bound or
(20:08):
summer camps where they wouldn'thave had the opportunity before
to do that.
And I was studying genomics atthe time, so big science lab
nerd.
And I remember sitting thereright before I was about to go
study abroad in Vietnam andbeing like do I want to be in a
lab the rest of my life?
(20:29):
I'm really drawn to outdoorexperiences.
They've changed me.
And so in Vietnam, I didn'ttell anyone and I applied for
Peace Corps in Tanzania and Iwas accepted.
Well, I told my mom, she justbroke down crying.
She was like, please just stayon this continent, Don't go,
don't leave me.
But that was my kickstart intothe nonprofit world.
(20:52):
Well, this was more governmentwork and service focused, but it
relates a lot to nonprofitmission driven work and I was
hooked.
I totally diverged from mygenomics career and tried to
figure out, even after PeaceCorps, how I could continue
being connecting or being in theoutdoor industry and connecting
(21:16):
more girls to the outdoor world, and that's where I landed, at
Girl Scouts.
Tom Butler (21:22):
Going to Tanzania must have been a formative
experience and I'm kind ofwondering, like, what impact
that has had on you now in thework that you do.
Is there a way to capture that,do you think, or is it just too
hard of a question?
Liz Lunderman (21:38):
So many people have asked me this.
And even today, what, six yearslater, I still haven't had a
good answer.
Peace Corps was the bestmoments of my life and some of
the most challenging moments ofmy life, and I love Itangule,
(22:00):
where the community that I wasteaching at and Tanzania so much
as such a special place in myheart, and I can't wait to go
back.
I really want to ride my bike.
I want to do some bikepackingtrips over and visit my best
friend from over there, upendo.
She was the second headmistress at my school.
We became really close and Ithink it would be really cool to
(22:22):
see Tanzania on a bike, so oneday that will happen for me.
Peace Corps overall.
There's two things in life thathas really had a significant
change, those very serendipitousmoments, peace Corps being one
of them.
And then the first time Ibought my mountain bike and
learned how to mountain bike.
Tom Butler (22:40):
You mentioned Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance
and I'm curious what being partof that organization taught you
about cycling in the PacificNorthwest.
Liz Lunderman (22:52):
I think it predates Evergreen in a little
bit.
My move to Washington story isone of my favorite stories and
anyone who's gone to an eventwith Evergreen probably has
heard me share this story.
But I was living in Californiawhen COVID hit and my job had
(23:15):
gone remote.
There wasn't much like keepingme there in California and I
bought my mountain bike.
It was a high tower, santa Cruzhigh tower.
I bought it three days before Ihit the road.
I was going to do a road tripback to New York, stay with my
sister to figure out the nextmove, and a friend of mine
called me up and said Liz,you've never been to Washington,
you should come up and visit it.
I think you're going to reallylike it.
Just, you know, from California, come up to Washington and then
(23:38):
go to New York.
We drove up, it was three daysand I make it to Port Gamble on
the first day and I get mymountain bike out and I was over
the moon, just that feeling ofexcitement and thrill and seeing
the Olympic mountains and theCascade mountains all in one
trip.
And you're right there on thesound and the Puget sound, and
(24:02):
my Subaru's transmission blewand I didn't want to replace it
again because this would be thesecond time.
So I scrapped the car.
I stayed with my friend until Ibought my Tacoma and by the
time I made that decision I fellin love with Washington.
I never made it to New York myparents were super sad but I
(24:23):
fell in love with mountainbiking and met my best friend,
tay, and both of those thingskept me here.
And through there I met theMisfits, which is all women's
mountain bike crew.
They're more downhill gravityfocused, but through there I
continued to meet people thatpushed me slowly and more
(24:44):
closely to Evergreen and we, tayand I, decided to sign up for
the Cascadia Dirt Cup series.
So we did six mountain bikeenduro races that summer and
some of their funds went back toEvergreen.
So Evergreen started to weaveits way more into my life and
I'm like, okay, what is thistrail organization about?
(25:05):
They maintain trails.
What does trail advocacy mean?
What does advocacy in the bikeindustry mean?
And then they put on an allwomen's dig day out at raging
river and I was invited to goand I showed up.
And it's Red Bull athletes andall these amazing women that
I've been following on Instagram, all these influencers.
(25:26):
There's like we're learning howto build trail and connecting
shuttling that day and rightthen and there I walked up to
Patrick Walker, who was thedevelopment director at the time
, and I said, patrick, I want ajob.
And five months later I wasworking for them as their MarCom
manager.
And you really see the passionthat people have for the cycling
(25:50):
industry when you work for abike advocacy organization.
You have super volunteers whoare getting out there day and
day night working on the trails.
Our executive director, yvonneKrause at the time former
executive director, yvonneKrause she was going advocating
for all sorts of stuff to helppush funds to get maintenance
(26:14):
for across Washington and ourtrails director, david
Fleischauer, really helping getnew projects on the ground and
also thinking about maintenancefor trails.
And then our crew was in chargeof eventually, was in charge of
eventually I moved intooverseeing our largest chapter,
(26:34):
the Cascades to Sound chapter,which is King County, snohomish
County and Pierce County, andthe community had started to ask
for more community events.
So Evergreen was really focusedon the trail project side of
things building new trail,maintaining trail and our
community wanted community and Iam biased but I believe the
(26:57):
epicenter of community is eventsand our team started developing
new events for Evergreen andnow we have some pretty keystone
events like Shovel and Shred,which is all women and
non-binary dig day with Red BullDoothy Jam, which is getting
(27:18):
youth out to Doothy to dodifferent education pieces and
then like jumping pieces, andthen also Spring Fling, which is
getting over 100 folks out tohelp maintain the trails out
there getting over a hundredfolks out to help maintain the
trails out there.
So that was my first timetaking a blank slate and saying
what does the community want interms of events, how is this
(27:41):
team going to create it and howare we going to implement it?
And then, how do we make surethat it lasts in the future?
And so we went in and built allthe structures, designed the
events from the ground up, andnow that I'm at Cascade and I
see those events continue to runand people really stoked about
(28:03):
them and resharing it that'swhat gets me teary of.
Like.
This is incredible and that'swhat Cascade is doing as well.
And this year, with our two newevents coming up Revolution
Ride, which is our all-womennon-binary ride around Lake
Sammamish, and then the IronHorse Gravel Ride Cascade went
(28:24):
to the community and was likewhat do people want?
Where are our gaps, what areour needs?
And so, building the womennon-binary community in cycling,
bringing us together.
And then the iron horse gravelride, where we're seeing so many
more cyclists step into gravelriding, and providing an event
(28:46):
that can be a touch point for,whether it's an intro to gravel
ride or just highlighting thePalooza cascade trail, it's
really, really cool to see us goin that direction.
Tom Butler (29:00):
Now, I don't do mountain biking, for one thing.
I don't need another categoryof bicycling stuff to buy.
Oh, your wife is like you don'tneed any more bikes, tom I mean,
we're looking, the next bikewe're getting is getting her a
bike.
So it's kind of like get you abike, get me a bike, but anyhow,
(29:21):
um, so I don't see that scene.
Um, I feel like, you know, andI'm very biased, I'm sure, but I
feel like Washington is aunique place for cycling, you
know, when you look at, you know, and I hope we can maintain
this focus on investment in bikeinfrastructure, you know, and
(29:45):
then you have Cascade BicycleClub, which is such a huge
organization, you know, anddoing really great things, and
I'm wondering if you would saythat Washington State, from a
mountain bike perspective also,is like a premier location in
(30:06):
the United States.
Liz Lunderman (30:08):
Yeah, To me Washington is the New Zealand of
the United States.
Right, you have the mostamazing terrain, whether it's
like the Mecca of mountainbiking in Washington state.
Our gravel trails in Washingtonstate are booming and so
(30:32):
beautiful, I think, like thefirst ones that come to my mind
the discovery trail out in theOlympic peninsula, and then the
Palouse to Cascades trail, allthe gravel rides up in Winthrop
and and all the road access thatwe have.
And with Washington being thetop cycling state, it's so easy
(30:56):
to say that right and get behindit, and that's why Cascades
here and the largest bikeadvocacy nonprofit based in
Washington.
Tom Butler (31:05):
Yeah, it's great.
I feel really fortunate to behere, you know, because there's
so much of that to enjoy.
Liz Lunderman (31:13):
And so much access.
People are traveling toWashington State to bike because
of the infrastructure we havehere, and that's what Kade's
also trying to do with IronHorse.
This is an opportunity forfolks to step into Washington
state not necessarily residents,but also folks who want a taste
(31:35):
of what gravel riding is outhere.
When you bike up the SnoqualmieValley, oh my gosh, it is
stunning.
Tom Butler (31:43):
The scenery is incredible and so when you say,
when you say, bike up theSnoqualmie Valley, you know,
give a little more of thatpicture You're going from where
to where when you're biking upthe Snoqualmie Valley.
Give a little more of thatpicture You're going from where
to where when you're biking upthe Snoqualmie Valley.
Liz Lunderman (31:58):
Absolutely so.
For the Iron Horse we'restarting in Snoqualmie and then
we bike up the Snoqualmie ValleyTrail to Rattlesnake Lake.
Have you been to RattlesnakeLake?
Tom Butler (32:08):
Yes, yes.
Liz Lunderman (32:09):
Yes, it's gorgeous.
You're just looking out overthis beautiful lake, you have
Rattlesnake Ridge towering overit and the Cascades right behind
you.
So on this ride, that'll be thefirst snack break for folks to
hang out and take in the scenery.
And then you hop onto thePalouse to Cascades Trail and,
since it's a railroad gradetrail, you have this really
(32:31):
steady incline, which soenjoyable for anyone who loves
gravel riding, and you're goingthrough this beautiful forest up
the Snoqualmie Valley.
So, past North Bend Pass allthe way up to Snoqualmie Pass,
and that's where we're going tohave lunch on this ride up at
(32:53):
HIAC, and lunch is going to beprovided by Summit at Snoqualmie
, which is awesome because we'rehelping bring in economic
stimulus to our ruralcommunities and partnering with
local organizations, and that'salso what part of these rides is
is cultivating rural tourism aswell.
And so once you get hot lunchup there, you start, you
(33:16):
continue on the Palooza CascadesTrail, and this I used to live
up at Hayek.
I lived there for about a yearand a half in this tiny little
cabin and I would take my gravelbike and I would ride the
length of Kachilis and back, andevery single moment I'm looking
around, I'm looking at themountains, I'm looking at the
lake and I'm like how do I livehere?
This is beautiful and I'm soexcited for our riders to
(33:41):
experience those moments.
And, who knows, maybe you'llsee some wildlife up there too.
Tom Butler (33:47):
That's really possible yeah so it's uh.
So really, what you're talkingabout is so I-90 is the main
thoroughfare that goes up andover the cascades.
And you're, you're going, youknow, not right beside that, but
you're kind of going parallel.
And you're, you're going, youknow, not right beside that, but
you're kind of going parallel,and you get to, you basically
get to climb over a mountainrange climb up a mountain range
(34:09):
and it is stunning.
What's the mileage on the onthe route?
Liz Lunderman (34:14):
So round trip we have 62 miles and that's 31
miles the first day, 31 milesthe second day and then 2,227
feet of elevation gain at asteady rate.
And the cool thing about thisride is the first day is the
hardest right, because you haveto pedal up and you have the
(34:34):
tunnel to go through, which isdark and you're like water cold,
cool water dripping down.
You might have some potholesand for this specific ride, we
will be giving out lights forriders as a giveaway and part of
the registration to be able tobike through the tunnel with
their light.
We do highly recommend addingextra lights, but that's the
(34:58):
cool challenge of this rideright Going through the tunnel,
you camp out at Whispering PinesRV Park.
So after you do day one andfinish your 31 miles and the
hill and the tunnel, super proudof yourself, you get to hang
out with everyone at WhisperingPines RV Park.
We're going to have a barbecue.
Our executive director, leeLambert.
He's going to be slinginghamburgers and hot dogs, hanging
(35:21):
out with folks.
And then the next day you goall downhill.
So you get up, you have a warmbreakfast and then you head back
down to North Bend and it is afun all downhill ride, so that's
what makes this ride reallyunique and awesome.
Tom Butler (35:39):
Some people listening might not be familiar
with the Cascade Palouse Trail.
I wonder if you could talk alittle about that trail.
You're on part of it, butthere's a lot of that trail.
Liz Lunderman (35:52):
So this is a really historical trail.
It used to be one of therailroads that was actively used
and eventually turned into thePalooza Cascades Trail.
And the Palooza Cascades Trailis 250 miles across Washington
state, which is incredible.
So this is just a short pieceof what this trail is.
(36:13):
The Iron Horse gravel ride isgoing on a Monday and Tuesday,
so for all the folks who areworking in tech, you can play
hooky for those two days and getout into nature, because this
whole ride is really aboutimmersing yourself into nature
and hitting that flow meditativestate on your ride.
(36:35):
Yeah, so getting out there,away from the city, you're
immersed in nature.
This gravel route is reallysmooth.
You'll need thicker tires, soif you haven't gravel road
before you'll.
On our webpage, we have a lotof information that can help
with directing you to any tipsthat you'll need for gravel
riding.
We also have a gravel ridewebinar coming up as well that
(36:58):
you can sign up for on ourwebsite to help answer all of
your questions and prep you forgravel riding.
If that's something that youwant to foray into, which we
highly recommend, we'd love tosee you there.
Tom Butler (37:10):
There is the Winthrop Gravel Tour.
Talk about kind of thedifference.
What does this provide that yousee as somewhat different from
the Winthrop gravel tour?
Liz Lunderman (37:24):
Yeah, so the Winthrop gravel tour is a longer
, multi-day gravel tour and withthe Iron Horse this is an
opportunity to do something alittle smaller, so it's two days
instead of three and it's alsocloser to the King County
Seattle area, so you don't haveto travel so far, and with
(37:44):
Winthrop it's a four to fivehour drive to get there and then
a multi-day trip.
And here, with Seattle being soclose to North Bend, you get to
explore your backyard and youcan do it within a short hour
drive from the city into NorthBend.
(38:05):
We support the ride entirelywith a baggage truck, so you
don't have to put anything onyour bike and it's not bike
packing, you get to throw itinto the truck.
We have all of our SAG vehiclesand outriders to support with
medical and minor injuries alongthe route, so you have a ton of
support.
(38:25):
And then, with 31 miles thefirst day and then 31 miles the
second day, all downhill, it'sreally attainable for beginners.
Yeah.
Tom Butler (38:36):
Yeah, I like it.
So people are camping and itsounds like they're going to be
kind of going to be at a placethat is a campground.
If I understand what you'resaying, you know, like STP,
(38:58):
where there's a lot of differentways, we've always went out, or
the last two years we've wentout and camping and have stayed
in a hotel, or I should say Ihave, but this is, and then like
something on STP, you're goingthrough a lot of areas where
(39:18):
there's mini-marts and stufflike that, and that's not, I'm
sure, the Cascade Palouse Trail.
You're not passing a bunch ofmini-marts on the way.
Liz Lunderman (39:28):
So it seems like… no, it's passing many, many
trees and, like some mountains.
Tom Butler (39:35):
Right.
Logistically that seems like avery different thing to pull off
than like an STP, because ofthe remoteness of it.
I guess one of the biggestelements it's like apples and
oranges STP.
Liz Lunderman (39:53):
you know, some of the biggest logistical
challenges is how do you get5,000 riders and their bikes
back from Portland to Seattle?
How do you get 5,000?
riders and their bikes back fromPortland to Seattle and here
for the iron horse.
Some of the biggest logisticalchallenges are permitting
working with state parks awonderful partner of ours to get
(40:14):
things all settled in, and thecool thing about this ride is
there's access points for anytype of emergency, for our
volunteers to be able to supportfolks with mechanicals or
whatnot, and also prepping folksfor the tunnel and having them
(40:38):
understand that it is going tobe pitch black.
You might not have any sense ofwhere you're at, and it's one
of those experiences that youcan only get here.
I think the first longesttunnel is over in Europe and
then here it's the second one inthe entire world so that you
can bike through.
So it's good.
(41:00):
That's a really cool experienceto have.
Our team is so excited for thisevent because it's also an
event that we want to do right,so we're really looking forward
to sharing it with other people.
Tom Butler (41:14):
Well, I just love it that that part of Washington,
that part of our region, isbeing promoted and people can
experience it, because it isunique and it is cool.
I'm a little bit nervous aboutthe heat.
Have you guys talked about that?
(41:35):
Do you think the elevation willmediate that a bit, or what
have you been talking about that?
Liz Lunderman (41:43):
will mediate that a bit, or what do you?
What have you been talkingabout that?
Yeah, with all of our snackstops and lunch stops, we have
hydration and food there forfolks and you're in the shaded
gravel trail right.
You're deep in the woods asyou're going through up the
valley and that's going toprovide a lot of maybe some yeah
, some shade and whatnot.
But we have a ton of supportfor riders on on the trail and
(42:07):
when I've biked out there in thesummer, especially along
Kachilis, you're pacing yourself.
Well, you have a lot of peoplearound you, especially with a
cascade event and 200 plusriders gravel riding with you.
You're not alone and eventhough it's you're, you're
pushing your body and you mightfeel that heat.
(42:28):
You have so much support andyou get to suffer together.
Tom Butler (42:36):
I like it.
That's part of communitybuilding.
Liz Lunderman (42:39):
Yeah, that camaraderie.
Oh, we did this ride and we'reso dusty and we can't wait to
tell.
Tom Butler (42:47):
Lee, we want a hamburger and a seltzer.
Liz Lunderman (42:50):
at the end of this ride there's lakes you can
jump into as well, you could getinto Rattlesnake Lake, cachilis
Lake, cool off a bit and keepon going.
Tom Butler (43:02):
And those lakes are cold.
I think right.
Liz Lunderman (43:04):
They're pretty chill.
Yeah, they're definitely coolerthan the air.
Tom Butler (43:09):
Yes, now that sounds awesome.
Liz Lunderman (43:12):
Yeah.
Tom Butler (43:13):
You talked about some information on the website.
If someone's which I think ispossible that there's people
that don't camp with their bikeOne, are there some options?
Could they bring a motor homeand park it?
Or is there information on thewebsite that's going to help
(43:34):
them understand what to bring?
They don't have to pack it ontheir bike.
There's going to be someone'sgoing to transport that for them
, but are there going to be someways that they can get help
just thinking about what theyshould bring for the night?
Liz Lunderman (43:50):
Absolutely.
If you head to cascadeorg andunder our rides and events you
go to the Iron Horse Ride,there's a full frequently asked
questions page.
So it talks a lot about gravelriding and the question of what
kind of bike do I need to beriding on, what gear should I
bring with me and is thissuitable for?
(44:11):
If you're a newbie orinexperienced, is this suitable
for you?
And how to prep for this event?
Can you use e-bike on this ride?
Questions like that.
And it also talks about thelogistics.
So camping is available at theWhispering Pines RV Park, which
is our official midpoint.
This includes tent spaces andlikely to set up multiple tents
(44:36):
as well.
So if you have any friendscoming and you're like, hey,
let's play hooky from worktogether and just say the common
flu is going around and y'allcome out, you can tent all
together and be with friends andthere's access to showers and
bathrooms and other parkamenities, so that's really
(44:57):
great.
You can also do an alternativewhere you have.
There's several motels up therein Clay Elam, including the
Timber Lodge Inn, the Astor Inn,and you can look into.
If you are feeling bougie andwant that hotel room, you can
hit up those spaces as well.
Tom Butler (45:15):
It sounds like a typical Cascade ride where you
guys have thought about so much.
So I think that you know peoplecan expect that go to the
website and you can get a lot ofinformation, and then, like you
had mentioned, the conferencecalls and different ways of
getting information and I, youknow, or sending an email.
(45:35):
I know that cascade is reallyresponsive to all those things,
absolutely.
Liz Lunderman (45:41):
Absolutely, and if there's any type of question
that folks have and they've goneto the frequently asked
questions and you just want totalk to someone on the team,
including myself, you can emailus and we'll respond back to you
.
Yeah.
Tom Butler (46:01):
What is it that you hope that riders will take away
from this event?
Do you see it as something thatcan have a lasting impression?
Liz Lunderman (46:10):
Yeah, tom, that goes back to those first moments
of myself biking.
There's this wonderful lecturethat I went to when I was
working at Girl Scouts and itwas called maximizing
serendipity and outdooradventure and it talked about
how do you take the moments inan outdoor experience whether
(46:32):
that's seeing an Eagle in thesky or you have a mechanical on
a bike ride and then how do youturn that into ripple effects in
someone's life.
And with the events of Cascadeand specifically this ride of
Iron Horse gravel ride beingsuper unique in a very beautiful
(46:53):
historical place in this valley, there's bound to be moments of
serendipity, that, whether it'slike a connection, a new friend
, a new riding partner, a momentwhere a rider was really proud
of themselves for pushingthrough up this huge valley and
not thinking that they were ableto do it and then doing it, or
(47:14):
seeing a part of Washington thatthey haven't experienced before
, with the support of Cascadeand so many other riders, I'm
hoping that folks walk away fromthis weekend with those ripple
effects of oh.
Tours are now my thing.
I love gravel riding.
I want to go to Winthrop, Iwant to go to Walla Walla, I
(47:36):
want to go to Port Townsend, Iwant to go to Lake Chelan, which
is all of our different toursthat we're going to this year,
and I'm hoping that it can be aspark point for folks to find an
activity that gives themmeditative moments, connective
moments and a space to step awayfrom the chaos of the everyday
(48:01):
grind and, um, it's like such abeautiful way to to experience
and take up time in life.
Tom Butler (48:10):
Yeah, this might be a difficult question to to
answer, but I'm wondering, ifyou know, there's a lot of clubs
out there that aren't the sizeof the cast of cascade bicycle
club and don't have theresources that cascade bicycle
club has, and I'm wondering ifthere might be some thoughts
(48:32):
that you have for smaller clubsabout how can they create
awesome events.
You know what are some of thekey things that you might think
about.
Liz Lunderman (48:44):
Absolutely.
The first thing that comes to meis organize community rides and
not just like the grassrootsorganization of community rides
which is awesome that's howCascade started Make them
inclusive, so offering rides fordifferent abilities, different
(49:05):
types of folks, different typesof folks and really helping
bring new people into cycling.
Because creating those touchpoints for folks to step into
the cycling world can createlong-lasting super volunteers,
members to help grow theorganization long-term.
(49:25):
And I've seen smallerorganizations have huge success
with doing this.
And I don't know if you've heardof the case of the Mondays, but
last year this group partneredwith a rec cafe over in North
Bend and they started offeringgroup rides on Wednesdays for
folks just to get out on theSnoqualmie Valley Trail and by
(49:49):
the end of the year they'reseeing between 60 and a hundred
riders out there of alldifferent skill sets and some it
would be folks first time doinga group gravel ride and those
little pieces of making itinclusive and a touch point for
different folks but alsobringing in your friends and
(50:10):
something to do after work hasreally like I think that grows
community and can helporganizations elevate their
member basis.
And then you have folks who cangive you feedback on what they
want to see and what do yourmembers want.
What do you, what does yourcommunity want in um, in being
(50:33):
able to get together and sign upfor events, which is where we
ended up with our revolutionride.
We had women and non-binaryfolks wanting a ride to connect
with each other.
And then the iron horse ride,where we wanted a gravel ride
for folks to step into graveland kind of test it out.
Tom Butler (50:51):
You talked about super volunteers and I think you
know, and a shout out to allyou super volunteers out there,
you know, I think that that'ssuch a vital part of the, you
know, of any successful event,of any successful club.
Liz Lunderman (51:06):
Absolutely, and these are people who are so
passionate about the cyclingcommunity that they volunteer
their resources, huge chunks oftheir time, to support putting
on these events and rides,because they believe in the
mission of Cascade so much andwhat bicycles can bring to
(51:27):
people's lives.
And, at the end of the day, weall just want to ride bikes.
It's an opportunity to do thattoo.
Tom Butler (51:38):
What excites you about the future of Cascade
events?
Is there a vision that you guysare looking at and wanting to
bring about?
Liz Lunderman (51:48):
Gosh, there's so much because there's so much
opportunity.
You know it's not lost on methat in this role I have very
big shoes to fill with DaveDouglas building up the events
team and the event schedule forCascade, and so we're sitting on
a lot of legacy and this is anew era for the events
(52:11):
department at Cascade.
We have a really awesome team.
A lot of folks are new, comingonto the team with a lot of new
ideas and I think it's startingwith these two new rides and
collecting our feedback and datafrom our members and the folks
who go on our rides to be ableto look at that and say in three
(52:33):
years, and even next year, 2026, what do we want to build from
there?
And we really want to make itrider-centric.
So, yeah, what does ourcommunity want?
And then we continue to tell ourstory so that when people step
into registration and evenmaking donations through our
(52:54):
event registration, people canfeel good about joining these
because it's going back tosupporting our advocacy and
education initiatives.
Gascade is so much more thanriding your bike.
It's elevating other peopleyouth, BIPOC folks, our women,
non-binary folks, ruralcommunities to get on bikes as
(53:17):
well.
It's not, it's not just a ride.
It's, it's making sure everyoneelse has access to bikes.
Tom Butler (53:26):
Yeah, and I love to see those things going on.
You know that educationalcomponent.
I think that's so awesome.
So how about you personally?
What are some goals that youhave?
Do you are you going to betaking on some challenges, or do
you have future rides that youwant to do?
Liz Lunderman (53:45):
Yeah, prof oh I'll go professionally my
personal and professional goalis to continue to build up the
women and non-binary communitywithin cycling, and not just for
creating community and spaceand especially with the rebel
revolution ride and continuingto build off of that event, but
(54:09):
also being able to bringcommunities together in that
space and creating a pipelinefor women into the outdoor
industry, into leadership roles,and being able to be an example
of that myself and share thatenthusiasm and uplift other
(54:33):
women, non-binary folks intothis space.
Because it is incredible butyounger me didn't have the role
model I wanted to see.
I didn't know that women I likethink of that.
Back to that little girl in thebackyard of the Stickley
factory watching guys jump anddidn't have that representation.
And now to to see other womenin, like the live global
(54:58):
marketing section and havingJuliana be an all women mountain
bike brand and women just likekicking ass, doing all these
really cool things, breakingceilings especiallyannah bergman
as well with red bull, havingred bull rampage go off for the
first year, with women racing.
(55:19):
We're in this really cool timewhere there's so much left to do
and with the space here withcascade, being able to help even
build that pipeline or thatpathway for folks to get into
the industry as well, sopersonally, that's where I would
want to go I love it on a bike.
(55:42):
I do have a six-day trip inoaxaca coming up, that's cool.
Yeah, stp is definitely onthere, and some more multi-day
gravel rides.
Tom Butler (55:54):
Nice.
Liz Lunderman (55:55):
Including Iron Horse.
I'll be out there, so I wouldlove to meet all of you out on
the trail.
Please come say hi, don't beafraid.
If you see me out there, belike Liz, let's ride.
I want to talk to you a littlebit about something, or I want
to hear your stories too.
What are, what are your awesomewriting stories and your goals
for the for the year?
So?
Tom Butler (56:16):
perfect.
Well, liz, thank you so muchfor taking the time to do this.
I have to say I've become a LizLunderman fan over this podcast
, so you know I'm glad thatyou're in the position that
you're in.
I think I'm really're in theposition that you're in.
I think I'm really lookingforward to seeing what you're
doing there at Cascade andseeing the events come about.
And thanks for sharing yourperspective and some of your
(56:40):
background and just yourexcitement for cycling here.
Liz Lunderman (56:44):
Absolutely, tom.
Thank you so much.
It's been such a pleasuretalking with you and I think in
this timeframe where screens aretaking up so much of our life,
social media is taking up somuch of our life, the
opportunity to cycle withfriends and family and new
people out in Washington throughcascade is one of the most
(57:09):
transformative and magicalthings that we could do.
So I thank you so much forgiving us the platform to share
what we do in our story and,yeah, Well, my pleasure, and I'm
sure at some event I'll get tosee you and say hi in person.
Absolutely, I'd love it All.
Tom Butler (57:27):
Right Bye now.
As a member of Cascade BicycleClub and someone who contributes
to the organization regularly,it is wonderful that we have a
leader like Liz in charge ofevents.
The whole team there obviouslyloves seeing people impacted by
(57:48):
the events they do.
I believe that the Iron Horsegravel ride is going to be a
special experience and I justhave to see if I can work it
into my schedule to do the eventthis summer.
I forgot to ask Liz during theinterview if she thought the
ride would fill up fast, butlater she said that she thought
the response of people indicatedthat it would most likely sell
out.
(58:15):
I want to give you some detailsabout the route.
Ride with GPS shows that dayone has 3,151 feet of elevation
gain.
That happens over the first 30miles of the day.
Day two has 2,227 feet ofelevation gain.
That happens over the first 32miles.
There are so many cool thingsabout this ride and I really
hope I can make it work.
Hopefully, all of you have someexciting rides you're looking
forward to this season, whetheryou are touring new cities or
(58:37):
experiencing the wilderness atbike speed.
I hope you have some greatexperiences and great people
with whom to share them andremember age is just a gear
change.
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