12 - Blowtorches, Ovens, and Smokers: Understanding Relationship Timing

What happens when Hollywood tries to depict modern dating? In this eye-opening episode, we dissect "The Materialist" movie starring Dakota Johnson, Pedro Pascal, and Chris Evans to reveal the gap between cinematic romance and the authentic relationship dynamics divorced dads navigate daily.

The film portrays a matchmaker torn between a wealthy "unicorn" and her struggling actor ex-boyfriend—a classic Hollywood polarization that misses the nuanced middle ground where real relationships thrive. We explore how the movie both gets right and severely misrepresents the natural desires of men and women in relationships. While women's need for security isn't "materialistic" and men's physical attraction isn't "superficial," these natural drives are often unfairly villainized in modern media.

For divorced dads, financial reality dramatically shifts when one household becomes two. We candidly discuss post-divorce financial changes and how to approach dating with honesty about your situation without letting it define you. Women are attracted not necessarily to wealth, but to men with direction, purpose, and the ability to handle their responsibilities—what we playfully call "the smoker method" versus "the blowtorch approach" to relationships.

Safety emerges as a crucial theme—women need to feel safe both with you as a person and with the complex situation they're entering. When dating a divorced dad, they're assessing whether your co-parenting dynamics, relationship with your ex, and overall life structure will become their burden or whether you've created space for a new relationship to flourish naturally.

We challenge the rigid rules and timelines that internet dating gurus promote, encouraging an approach built on presence and intention rather than arbitrary expectations. Each relationship unfolds uniquely, and approaching milestones with authenticity creates memorable experiences that can potentially become stories you share for years to come.

Ready to transform your approach to dating after divorce? Check out our resources at blackboxdating.com and thedivorcedadvocate.com and join us next week as we continue exploring the path to authentic connection.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to Dad's Dating After Divorce.
I am your co-host, JudeSandoval, founder of the Divorce
Dadvocate community, and myco-host, Dallas Bluth,
relationship and dating coachfrom Black Box.
Dating Dallas how you doingDoing fabulous.
Good morning Jude.

(00:20):
How you doing I am doing great.
So this is round two of ourattempt to record this episode.
Those of you who are listeningit's not all glamorous red
carpet all the time.
Sometimes it starts and stopsand challenges and so, yeah, we

(00:42):
had this like everything goingagainst us the last time around
Headphone issues, Internetissues.
It was just a mess and we gothalfway through and just
scrapped it and then you starteda DIY project.
So you started your man projectafter that.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, yeah, we had to do a mercy kill on that episode
.
We just had to put it down.
It was not going pretty.
So I was was thinking about it.
We were talking about optionsand the problem I had on my end
was the wi-fi upstairs isn'ttalking well enough with the,
with the router downstairs, andI was like I've got a long drill
bit, I'm gonna order anethernet cable and I'm gonna fix

(01:20):
this.
Yeah, like five hours later I'mup through the attic in the
insulation, dropping downthrough closets.
Yeah, but the internet is way,way better.
So you know it is so good.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
You're smooth.
I see your lips actually movingand everything, so I don't have
to guess at what you're saying.
And then time that that delayor anything.
So we're good.
Well, let's jump into our topic.
We've got a fun episode.
I think it was fun talkingabout it for the half hour that
we did before we scrapped thelast episode.
So I think we can dive maybeeven deeper and refine it even

(01:54):
better than we did last time.
So it's going to work out foryou guys is what I'm saying, and
so the background on this is Iwas watching a movie this week.
I was picking a movie thisweekend and I clicked on the
Materialist, but I thought thatI was watching the Brutalist,

(02:15):
which is the Adrian Brody movie.
That's well-acclaimed andwhatnot.
I know sometimes I have thosebrain pauses and so I'm sitting
there watching it and I'mthinking when is Adrian Brody
going to show up in this movie?
He's nowhere to be found andit's not the right movie.
So anyway, I started watchingit.
The premise of the movie isthere's a woman who is a dating

(02:38):
coach or a matchmaker Not adating coach.
There's a big difference Amatchmaker in New York City and
she meets a very wealthy guy.
She has an ongoing kind of onand off relationship with her ex
, who is a waiter, aspiringactor, et cetera, and the movie
plays out about relationships,about masculine, feminine nature

(03:03):
, dating scenarios, etc.
I want to share, and I'll justsay Dallas.
The whole time I was thinkingthese people need Dallas, they
need Dallas, they need to talkto Dallas about how to handle
this situation.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
The whole time yeah, I'm not sure I'd be able to help
a lot of them.
Yeah, I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
I'd be able to help a lot of them.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
You know they've got their priorities so strongly
aligned in a certain way.
Being in New York and all ofthat, I'm like I don't know that
they really want to hear what Ihave to say.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, right, and I think we'll dive into that.
There's some extreme polaritiesin the movie because it is
Hollywood, obviously, so theygot to play to some of that.
But I'm going to share some ofthe stuff that I liked about it
before I start to really destroyit and talk about the things

(03:55):
that they could have done better, because it was a Hollywood
movie, right.
So I liked Dakota Johnson justoff the bat.
I think she's an excellentactress, she's nice to look at
and everything I've watched herin is is really great.
So, uh, and actually I thinkall three of the main actors
pedro pascal, chris evans did areally good job in in their
roles and portraying the, thecharacters that that they were.

(04:17):
I liked the.
The.
How it act accurately portrayedkind of just the innate
masculine and feminine desiresof men and women, and they said
it out loud, they didn't justallude to it.
I thought that that was good,although I think that they could
have expanded upon it and theydidn't, but we'll get to that.

(04:40):
But I think it also kind ofaccurately portrayed the dating
environment out there.
Now it was set in New York City,so it's probably kind of its
own little enclave of how youdate.
So there is some of that, butfor the most part I think it

(05:01):
delved into some accuraciesaround dating.
For the most part, I think itdelved into some accuracies
around dating.
And then the other thing I itwas it was it was honest in not
only how they talked aboutmasculine and feminine desires,
but also they talked about alittle bit about they touched on
childhood traumas and how thosethings might play into

(05:22):
relationships.
Now, they didn't.
That was a huge missedopportunity, I think, where they
could have gone into some morestuff and we'll talk about that
too here but they did touch onit.
So I appreciated that.
So those are some of my biglikes about the movie.
What were some of the thingsthat you liked?
So?

Speaker 2 (05:38):
one of the things I really so.
First of all, I saw it in thetheater several months back, so
my memory is going to be alittle fuzzy, a little hazy and,
plus, you know, I had youbefore we started the recording.
Give me the names of the actors, because boy do I suck at
remembering those names.
So I've got a little list hereso that I can make sure I've got
the right person, you know, forthe right role.

(05:58):
One of the things that I reallyliked about it was essentially,
the two male characters One ofthem is very rich and the other
one is definitely not and I likehow Dakota Johnson is trying to
decide.
She thinks she wants this listof things, but it turns out that

(06:18):
that doesn't actually fullypull her away from the draw to
the other guy, her ex-boyfriend.
Oh, by the way, spoiler alertsif you haven't watched the movie
.
Stop now and go watch the movie,uh, if you care about, because
we're going to talk abouteverything beginning to end.
So, okay, fair game.
Yeah, I really like the factthat she struggled, you know,

(06:40):
she came to a certain decisionabout what she wanted, but and
that's from her, coming from herhead, but her heart really
wasn't satisfied, even when shewas getting the rich guy, even
when she had his complete,undivided attention and he was
doing everything the way that wewant a woman, that we think a
guy is supposed to do it.
Even when she got it, shecaught the big fish.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
She wasn't satisfied.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
The unicorn, as they call it in the movie, exactly
yeah, the unicorn, and, and so Ithink I like the fact that it
that it basically had thisundertone of like, well, you
might think you know what youwant, but what's actually
effective, what actually tugs onyour heartstrings is is might
have a different plan.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Well, that leads perfectly into what I did not
like about that, andparticularly on.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
I know there's, there's that, oh my God.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
You've already heard a half hour of this, so you know
that I could probably talk fortwo hours on this, so I so I I
want to.
I want to put this into contextfor dads listening that are
thinking about dating also, thathave children, because
Hollywood is such an influenceand watching these movies has
such an influence.
This is something that I have,for a long time, been very

(07:57):
conscientious about with mydaughters is watching movies and
talking about some of thesedynamics that come up in movies,
because these dynamics are notalways portrayed in a healthy
manner.
I think they did a good jobwith this movie, but I think
that there are underlying thingsthat are maybe misconceptions

(08:19):
if you want to look at it from anice light.
Some are just modern feministpropaganda that is undermining
relationships between men andwomen, and it's from a specific
segment of people that are inthe world that have an agenda
Right, ok, we're not.
We're not portraying everywoman woman as as a modern

(08:40):
feminist that hate men, etcetera.
Ok, let's just get that out ofthe way before everybody starts
sending emails and getting pissyabout stuff.
That's not what we're saying,but we're saying that there is
stuff that was portrayed outthere that is not healthy for
relationships.
That's also why you and I arehere doing this that we can help
people, because we've also beenin these unhealthy
relationships.
We've exhibited some of theseunhealthy traits ourselves and

(09:03):
we're trying to help peoplethrough this.
So this is good content for thedads listening to be able to
help with their relationships,but also to talk to their kids
If they're like I, have teendaughters watching these movies
and saying what do you thinkabout that character and or, as
opposed to this, or do you thinkthat could happen a better way?

Speaker 2 (09:25):
So, on that note, I really like that, jude, because
the thing is like Hollywood orwhatever group of people out
there has their certain valuesand if we don't proactively tell
the young people around us, ourchildren you know, if you have
children I don't but if we don'tmake it really really clear

(09:45):
that, hey, these values arebeing pushed on you, are you
sure these are actually thevalues that you want to live by,
if we're not active about it,passively they will absorb stuff
from movies and thenparticularly social media and
TikTok, whatever just boils upto the top of the channel, is
what's going to infiltrate theirthinking.
So bravo and absolutelyimportant for every dad out
there to be very intentional.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, yeah.
And so that kind of brings meto some of the dislikes that are
on that.
And, guys, you're going to hearDallas and I talk about this
probably every episode all thetime is being intentional and
knowing and understanding whatyour values and your beliefs are
, because it's absolutelyimpossible and I'm going to say

(10:27):
impossible to have a reallyhealthy, functioning
relationship with somebody ifyou don't know what that is and
you're not able to communicatethose and work together.
There's so many complexitiesthat go into dating and having a
relationship, particularlypost-divorce, blending families
and all that.
You've got to have that stuffin mind.

(10:48):
You've got to know some ofthat's ongoing right, some of
that you're learning or refining, et cetera.
But really trying to get thatdialed in is incredibly
important.
So on that note of her notknowing what she truly wanted,
right.
So part of the movie in the inthe beginning is she breaks up

(11:09):
with the, the guy.
They're in their 20s, she's a,he's a waiter, aspiring actor
and he's broke and she hates thefact that he's broke and she
hates herself for hating thefact that he's broke, which I
feel like that was disingenuousin the fact that that is just

(11:30):
something that is innately afeminine need is to feel that a
man can be a provider, be secure.
There are some innate thingsthat the feminine nature needs
and wants, and so that troubledme that they were villainizing

(11:52):
her, and that's kind of thewhole point of the movie called
the Materialist, that they haveall these materials.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
They keep talking about checklists, but I just did
not like the fact that theydon't accept that, as this is
how we're designed, this is howwe're wired Right and, if I can
just jump in and say that thereis a counterpart on the
masculine side, we're wired tobe attracted to women that are
fit in shape, not superoverweight.

(12:18):
We are and I think the wordhere is superficial.
So the idea that the womancan't stand a guy that doesn't
have his financial act together.
She hates herself because shesees it as superficial.
It's not superficial.
It's fundamental to her feelingof safety and security being
with him.
You know, I don't remember whatthe problem was.

(12:39):
It had something to do with acar breaking down or something
like that.
And then later in the movie shecomes back to him.
The guy's still living in thesame place that he was 10, 12
years earlier, with tworoommates, one nasty ass toilet

(12:59):
and it's just like.
I mean, no woman wants to be inthat environment and it takes
money to get out of thatenvironment into another one.
It's not superficial.
Similarly, for guys, it's notsuperficial that we're attracted
to what we're attracted tophysically.
I.
You know it is interesting.
I lived in Asia for a while andit's funny.
They're very comfortable withthe word fat in Asia.
Women are fine being told that.

(13:21):
They're fine saying it likethis.
They're like this is obviousthat this is just a part of life
in America.
That is probably one of theworst words you can use today is
to call someone man or womanfat, and in words it's like oh,
it's.
You know, and as a guy, you'resuperficial.
If you're looking at the bodyand all of that, it's like, yeah
, you're actually in denial Ifyou think that her physical body

(13:43):
is not important.
And I got to say that if womenthink that that's not important,
they're also in denial.
The same with a guy.
You got to look at yourfinances it matters.
It's not the end, all be all.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
We don't have to have unrealistic standards, but it's
not superficial to say that itis fundamentally important, yeah
, and that kind of leads.
So I want to tie this into thedad's listening to some helpful,
some helpful tips and feedbackaround that it doesn't mean that
you've got to have your ahundred percent financial house
in order.
It doesn't mean you need to bethe, the, the Pedro Pascal and

(14:20):
be a multi-billion or abillionaire in order to go out
and date and find somebody thatyou can have a healthy
relationship, but it does meanthat you need to have some of
these things in order.
You need to know what it is.
When we were talking last timeabout dating and having the
means to date, one of the scenesin the movie is she talks about

(14:44):
how he can take her to thisextraordinarily expensive
restaurant and she loves how hejust signs the check like it's
no big deal and just takes it,and his comment was like, well,
so what it's money?
I have the money.
It's okay.
I like doing this, but it'smore about the time that I'm
spending with you and I enjoythat.

(15:06):
I enjoy it in this environment,but that's not really the point
of it, which I think was a veryappropriate answer.
I liked his character in theirportrayal of him being what they
call a unicorn, right, but Iwould just say that more just in
his masculine except for theend when they talked about the

(15:28):
surgery and making himselftaller and that he couldn't love
they just tanked him really atthe end of the movie he was this
unicorn through and he reallyheld himself well.
He did all of what you wouldimagine somebody in a healthy
masculine mindset would be doing.

(15:48):
And then she breaks up with himand then he kind of like falls
apart, which I thought was sad,because there are men that are
like him.
There's lots of men that arehealthy in their masculinity,
like him, that are operating,that healthy in their
masculinity like him, that areoperating.
That you know we all have ourchallenges and whatnot, but it's
not, it's not all, it's not allsmoke and mirrors.

(16:10):
There are healthy masculine menout there, right?
So so I did, I did appreciatethat, but and I bring that now
to to to wrap it up in that youdon't have to have a ton of
money to do that.
You just have to know what youlike to do and have the means to
be able to do it.
Like I was mentioning, I liketo do a lot of outdoor stuff,

(16:31):
but go ahead.
You wanted to interject.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yeah.
So actually I want to ask you aquestion.
So I'm again.
I've never been married, I'mnot divorced.
I want you to paint for me abit of a clear picture of how a
man's financial situationchanges pre-divorce versus
post-divorce.
Like, walk me through some ofthe basic.
I mean, like the words I havein my head are, you know, child
support and alimony, and youknow, and and they both have

(16:56):
usually very, very negativeconnotations around them Can you
like like break me into thereality, the world that men face
once they're in divorcefinancially?
How does it?

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Sure.
So, yeah, no, that's a greatquestion, and I know all the
dads out there are going oh shit, dallas, let me.
Let me tell you and we mighthave a bunch of comments like,
right at this timing on thisvideo, but so well, just from a
straightforward mathematicalequation, it's one household

(17:27):
going into two households and sothere, your, your, your
disposable income will go downand your, your lifestyle will
change.
Unless you're a multimillionbillionaire, right, I mean that
might go from driving a McLarenor Ferrari to a BMW or Lexus,
right, but that's still alifestyle change, right?

(17:49):
So it might not be vacations inIceland, it might be vacations
in Florida or the Caribbean,right, but there's going to be a
change in the lifestyle.
And so I think sometimes theother part of it is mentally,
emotionally, for guys that'sdifficult and challenging when
you've gone through and you'vebuilt, let's say, you've built

(18:11):
yourself up in your company oryou've created a corporation or
a business and you've built thatup and then the lifestyle
changes.
I know for me I created theexact lifestyle that I wanted
the house, the cars, thebusiness, the kids, the
neighborhood, the community,involvement, all that.

(18:31):
And when that all changed and Igot divorced, it just shattered
.
Shattered me mentally andemotionally, going forward
thinking, hey, I had exactlywhat I wanted and I designed all
of it, and now it's completelydifferent.
So there's different levels toit.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Okay, so let me jump in here with what I think is
there's two fundamental mindsetsthat men can have around money.
It's basically.
One of them is I have a lot ofmoney, I have the things that I
need, I have a certain amount ofwealth, and that's how a lot of
money, I have the things that Ineed, I have a certain amount
of wealth, and that's how a lotof people at least talk about it
in the language is oh, you know, you are rich, meaning you have
money.

(19:12):
That's one way of looking at itand I've never really
understood it because that istemporary, because you know, if
you have a windfall inheritance,you know even of, like you know
, a million dollars.
If you don't, you know,depending on which direction
you're going and how you look atit, you will burn through that
money like there's no tomorrow.
I was a landlord for a while.
I had two tenants that I saw dothat.

(19:33):
They had windfalls, one of themright when they moved in,
another one while they wererenting from me, and I watched
them go right back to theposition they were in
financially within a year, maybetwo.
But I was like, wow, you don'tget those lottery tickets very
often in life, the five-figure,six-figure lottery tickets you
just don't.
So that leads me to the othermindset, which is where are you

(19:56):
going financially?
That is the question that youneed to ask yourself.
So you know you had the wholepicture you wanted.
You had one household.
It got like an amoeba, you know, like separated into two cells.
Everything had to be divided.
Well, I mean, depending on thedirection that you're going with
things financially, you had tostep back, but you're still

(20:18):
moving forward.
You had to step back, butyou're still moving forward.
If that is where I am in myheart, financially, I'm still
going to have a very attractiveconfidence around my finances
and I'm going to have a coherentstory.
For anybody that I'm on a datewith I'm going to be able to
explain look, I went throughthis.
It was a setback.
Everybody understands there aresetbacks in life, but this is

(20:41):
the track that I'm on, this iswhere I'm going.
Yeah, I'll let you.
I'll let you jump in on that.
Tell me what you think.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Well, no, I just want to.
I just want to say that thatmindset should expand to more
than just your finances, right?
And so when, when, when.
I'm working with, with dads inprivate coaching, that's one of
the things that we talk about.
We've got a five-step program,but clarifying your vision and

(21:07):
direction, that is one of thesteps.
And because your life is goingto change, whether you like it
or not, because you're getting adivorce, so what you had, how
it was, all that stuff, what Iimagine it's going to change,
you do not have a choice anymore, but what you do have a choice
about is the direction that youwant to move towards.

(21:29):
Doesn't mean that is exactlywhere you're going to hit, but
having what you said, havingthat mindset of, hey, I'm going
to make more money or mybusiness is going to be, I'm
going to do that same thing inyour life and that is what
brings that is a masculine traitthat we were designed with
oftentimes, but but we, that'shard because lots of times that

(21:51):
gets conditioned out of us forwhatever reason.
We lose that.
That was my experience.
I had totally lost my, myability to, and I've got an
innately very just likemasculine nature, but through my
upbringing, childhood issues etcetera, that got conditioned

(22:12):
out of me to where it wasexistent until this whole thing
exploded and my life completelyturned upside down, which was a
good thing, right, Because Ineeded that to happen.
It's never a good good thing.
You don't want that, you don'thave to learn that way, but it
had to happen for me to do a 180on my mindset.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
That's interesting.
So, if I'm hearing you right,you're saying that the divorce
in a certain way woke you upfrom a somewhat comfortable
place, a little bit of acomplacent place.
And in that comfortable,complacent place were components
that you were not happy with,that you were still carrying
with you from childhood.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Yep, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
So so in in.
In.
Bringing this back to to whatwe're talking about is when, now
, when we're looking for yournext romantic relationship, it's
incredibly important toidentify.
So where are you at workingwith a coach like Dallas, or

(23:13):
somebody that's helping youthrough your divorce in
conjunction with Dallas, ortherapist, or a coach and Dallas
?
That is the optimal way to dosome of this self-evaluation and
understanding and movingforward.
But knowing what you bring to arelationship and what your
relational dynamic has beenbefore is incredibly important,

(23:35):
because we've talked about thisbefore.
I just plugged and played Right,so got divorced.
Had the ex just pluggedsomebody else in to try to keep
that whole vision right?
Like I was just going to plugand play.
Well, guess what?
It was the same type of personthat I had just divorced.
And I didn't do that once, Ididn't do that twice, I did that

(23:56):
multiple times until I startedto figure it, until the
heartache was so, becausesometimes they say that the
divorce is heartbreaking butthat next relationship that you
really get to do if that failsis really really heartbreaking.
It was really reallyheartbreaking for me until I
which until I figured out.
Ok, there's a commondenominator here.

(24:18):
I've got to figure my stuff outbefore we go and find somebody
that's going to be healthy.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, so bringing it back to the Materialist, because
the movie was so much aboutmoney and finances and all of
that.
I've asked several women thisquestion.
I said would you rather be witha man that, say, has $10
million, a $10 million net worth, but feels like he's the bomb
and has stopped doing much ofanything with his life and is

(24:48):
more or less kicking back on abeach, you know, just kind of
enjoying his lifestyle?
Or would you rather, or wouldyou rather be with a man that
you feel is really goingsomewhere interesting and
exciting, and you see that hehas a ticket to success that
he's currently working on andcashing in?
And I believe pretty much everywoman that I've said that to

(25:10):
they're like well, the money isnice, but the truth is the
vitality of the man that is notretired, the vitality of the man
that is still on a quest andgoing somewhere, that is way
sexier to them than just themoney sitting in a bank account,
and the thing that'sinteresting about this is the

(25:45):
money in the bank.
So it's a gym analogy when yousee somebody who is like super
fit, in shape –product of thevital person going into the gym
doing that work every day, butall we see is the result.
Money is very, very similarwhen you see somebody that's got
some crazy lifestyle andthey're doing really well.
Yeah, some of that might beinherited, but usually it's an

(26:08):
indication that they're on ahealthy track financially, the
same way that somebody is on ahealthy track going to the gym.
That vitality, that track, thatdiscipline, that drive, that
passion that is what really turnwomen on and make them want to
come back for a second, third,fourth date with you.
It's not the laurels thatyou've acquired and that you've

(26:31):
sat on top and you put on top ofyour head.
Now you're kicking back in abeach chair.
That is not going to turnanyone on for long.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
So tell me what you think about this, dallas, from a
perspective of things that areinherently shared in a masculine
and feminine nature.
I feel that the sense ofadventure, or a call to
adventure, is something thatboth masculine and feminine are
both interested in, and that isa commonality that now we attack

(27:03):
it from a different perspective, I feel, but if we want to find
something that is a unifying ora commonality between the
polarity of masculine andfeminine, that would be one of
them that I think is a good onefor.
Give me a second.
I'll let you go on with thisone, because it's a great one,

(27:35):
one that we can focus on withwomen in order to help them to
come alongside us and be in thisadventure with us in our lives.
Go, tell us why and how.
Yeah, I was raising my handthere.
Please, please, call on me.
I want to talk.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, because this ties into I think it was the
last episode that we're on andboth men and women want to
experience an adventure.
However, like you just said,our approach, our orientation to
adventure is fundamentally, ona subtle level, rather different
.
Men are we feel alive, we feelhealthy, we feel good about

(28:08):
ourselves, we feel proud when westrike out on an adventure,
when we go out like Odysseus,you know, away from home and go
on the grand quest that's partof you know Joseph Campbell's
the Hero's Journey is you haveto go out, leave the comfortable
place in order to do it.
Women want to be invited tojoin in an adventure, and that's

(28:33):
tying into the previous episodewhere we were talking about
invitations.
Women don't want to have to gofrom zero to 15 miles an hour in
a four-wheel drive vehicle,like getting out there on the
safari.
They want a guy to come up totheir door with a four-wheel
drive vehicle, already warmed up, oils, checked, tires are ready

(28:55):
to go, got all the camping gearthey need in the back, and
we're like, hey, babe, hop in.
That is what women want toexperience.
And then they get to drive,they get to ride shotgun, they
get to be in the passenger seat,looking at all the beautiful
stuff and having the sense ofadventure without having to
first create it and then toreally have full responsibility

(29:18):
for conducting it.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Right which I think the movie gets right with what
you described in her choosingthe Chris Evans character,
because he's aspiring to be anactor and he's still trying,
he's still slugging through,doing his theater work and
whatnot which was attractive toher.
And and then they, and thenthey, and this was really just.
This is where I get irritatedand annoyed with with Hollywood.

(29:41):
The Pedro Pascal was like aNepo baby, right, and his mom
had started the venture capitalfirm which I'm just going to.
I'm going to point out thesestatistics because it's just so
annoying to me.
I looked up how many venturecapital firms have been started
by women.
It's like three percent in theworld, right?
So they find the most ludicrousthing.

(30:02):
And then I found, then I lookedup how many billionaires are
self-made versus inherited theirmoney Two thirds of
billionaires.
So the majority of billionairesare self-made versus inherited
their money Two thirds ofbillionaires.
So the majority of billionairesare self-made.
So they portrayed it accuratelyin her choosing the one that
was going to bring the adventureand has the direction.

(30:22):
But they flipped it the wrongway.
He would be the one all daylong and in real life he's going
to be the one that she choosesand it's going to be because
he's self-made and because hehas created the life that he has
wanted.
Usually, now, that's nothingagainst the actors and aspiring

(30:43):
actors and struggling theaterpeople et cetera, but it was
flip-flopped in the movie.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
So I was born and raised in la santa monica
specifically, and I was fourth.
I'm fourth generation fromsanta monica, so like we were
there long before really,hollywood was kind of doing its
thing long before we were.
Like all attractive people fromthe other 49 states are like
importing themselves intosouthern california long before
that, like my great-grandparentshad like a fish market or
something I don't know.
Attractive people from theother 49 states are like
importing themselves intoSouthern California Long before

(31:14):
that, like my great grandparentshad like a fish market or
something.
I don't know exactly the story.
So I, you know there's a littlebit of there's a little bit of
a question of the aspiring actorand, you know, chasing the
dream.
I mean, geez, I was a musicmajor.
You know, I understand havingthe passion for an art, but you
need to take care of businessalso.

(31:35):
Like if you're a guy and youknow, even if you're in the
entrepreneurial world, you know,and you're starting a business
or you're, you know, you're,you're, you're you, you have
some kind of calling that isoutside the standard safe nine
to five track.
If you know, whether it'sartistic, whether it's
entrepreneurial, whether it'sthat, you, just you don't want
to be tied to the man and youdon't want to have to show up to

(31:56):
an office every day, that's allfine, but you need to be an
adult and a grown up and realizethat you need to provide
certain basic standards I guesswe can say that certain a
certain basic level of stability, a certain basic level of
lifestyle and a certain basiclevel of achievement, really in

(32:19):
social eyes, in order for you tofeel like women are going to
find you attractive.
Chris Evans, thank you.
I got my list.
I'm looking at the actors'names.
This totally worked.
I got my list.
I'm looking at the actors.
This totally works.
Chris Evans doesn't do that.
Chris Evans is living the lifeof a mid 20 year old.
You know, aspiring actor whenhe's in his mid 20s, that makes
sense.
But then you move in.

(32:39):
You know, 1012 years later he'sstill in the same place.
That is the problem.
He didn't grow up.
This is, I believe, what womencall the Peter Pan syndrome.
You know, they're sick of guysthat just don't grow up, they
don't step into the adult roleand take care of
responsibilities and guys.
You can have them both.
You can have your dreams, youcan have your ambitions, but you

(33:02):
need to take care of businessas well, if you want to be taken
seriously.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
So that's a great point and I want to tie that
into why oftentimes women don'twant to date divorced fathers.
And I would say that theconversations that I have had
with women that don't want to dothat is because they don't want
to deal with that.
It's often a dad that has notbeen taking accountability for

(33:32):
what his life is about, what hischildren, getting his act
together, and she just doesn'twant to get wrapped into having
to be the mommy to kids, mommyto him and all of the stuff that
goes into that dynamic.
Like we said earlier, it'salready a complex dynamic for a

(33:53):
woman to have to get into that.
So that just goes.
And again, this doesn't meanthat we have to have all of our
stuff together, but we've got tobe working really hard to do it
.
And that takes me to anotherpoint, which is it's sometimes
you I would have to disagree alittle bit with you can have all

(34:14):
of it exactly how you want it.
So let me just put that caveatto it you can have everything
you want, just maybe not exactlyhow you want it, because
there's going to be constraintsthat you have as a divorced dad
dating.
You're going to haveresponsibilities with children
that you have as a divorced dad,dating.
You're going to haveresponsibilities with children.
You've got to be working andbringing an income in enough to

(34:35):
be able to support yourself,maybe child support, your kids
the lifestyle that you need foryour kids.
So there is going to have to be.
And I'll use an example from mylife is when I had my daughters
full-time.
There was a timeframe where Iwas a single, 100% single dad,
taking care of my daughters 100%of the time.

(34:55):
My business floundered becausedoing that full-time, it was a
choice between taking care ofthe kids and they were younger,
right Like elementary school andbeing able to dedicate the full
time into a business and beingthere the hours that you need
there was just.
It was a choice that I had to,I had to make.

(35:16):
So you can, but, but it doesn'tmean that I didn't have a great
relationship with my daughters.
We didn't have fun.
I was still also dating, just ina different, in a different
context.
And my business I survived,right.
So the business I didn't makemulti.
You know, I've made multimillions of dollars.
I've lost multi millions ofdollars.

(35:36):
That was not a time I wasmaking multi millions of dollars
, right so that was a time whereit was just getting by
financially, but it was themindset then that had to change
right.
Myself, but it was the mindsetthen that had to change right.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Myself, yeah, yeah, I want to echo.
You know you were talking aboutthe things that women get turned
off on when they're thinkingabout dating a single dad, and I
think the common themeunderneath that is the women are
imagining, perceiving, you know, projecting themselves into a
situation and they're feelingtired by it already.
They're feeling burdened,they're seeing responsibilities
that they don't want to have andI think you know and feel free

(36:15):
to speak into it from your ownexperience.
But I feel like there's acertain if you want to, if you
want your success rate to go upas a single dad dating, you need
to really present yoursituation as a situation that's
not going to burden the woman onthe other side of the table,
that you are handling it, you'retaking care of it financially,

(36:38):
you're not looking for somebody,you're not hoping that somebody
is going to come over and startdoing laundry and taking care
of kids so that you can go backto chilling out on the couch and
I'm not saying that you everdid that, but women have a
perception of men doing that indomestic environments with
children.
I think, as a single dad dating, you have to really do a good

(36:59):
job of presenting a low loadoffering to them.
They're not seeing how this is,if they step into this and they
start getting involved with it,that nothing is going to be put
onto their backs, nothing isgoing to burden them before they
really want that to be the case.
What do you think?

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Exactly.
I think you hit the nail on thehead, and so what I will
typically do is I will describethe environment and the
situation, and now I've had ahighly contentious, high
conflict divorce and postdivorce.
So I've had to be veryconscientious about how I manage

(37:40):
that and how I insulatesomebody from dealing with that,
which I feel I've done a decentjob around.
But I will be upfront aboutthat, that it's been high
conflict, that it is contentious, but you don't and I'll say it,
you don't have to worry aboutit.
There might be little thingshere and there that pop up, but
as long as we're communicatingabout stuff, then there's

(38:02):
nothing that we can't deal withNow.
Saying that is one thing, but Ido do that, I do do I do that
early on on?
Maybe the first no-transcript.

(38:41):
There's going to be a time ofhaving to wait it out, kind of
see if that's true, and ifthey're not, I would say that's
something assigned to look at.
If they're not being cautiousfirst and they're just diving
right in and want to be likestepmom right away, that that
might be an indication that yougotta pull back the reins and

(39:01):
say maybe she's got somethingelse going on that you, you
don't know about yet right.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
So absolutely yeah yeah, when, when it comes to the
oh shoot, lost my thought.
Sorry, totally lost it.
Keep on going, jude.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yeah, no, well, well, and and that is important.
Those conversations areimportant to have and your
intentionality is important toknow going into dating with
somebody so and and so that goesback to know what your values
are.
But then, when you know whatyour values are, know then what

(39:36):
you are wanting to accomplish bydating.
It could be just companionship,and that's okay, because I
can't tell you the number oftimes that I've heard guys and
I've had these conversations hey, I just want to enjoy time
together.
I'd like to do stuff, but Ijust want companionship.
Right now I'm not mentally,emotionally available to you.

(39:57):
I'm not going to be that personright now for you, and you just
need to know that.
So that doesn't mean it's nevergoing to happen.
It might be three months, itmight be nine months I know, I'm
just not there.
Or it could be.
Hey, I've done the work, I'vebeen dating for a decade, I'm
ready, I really know what I want.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
And this is what I'm looking for.
I'm looking back on the market.
I'm in the shop window with aprice tag on my neck.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Yeah, exactly, exactly, which.
You know that scares lots ofwomen off, right?
Because here's the thing tounderstand, guys is, women are
going through a lot of this samestuff too, and they're thinking
some of this stuff.
But it's incumbent upon us tolead these conversations and, in

(40:41):
turn, lead the relationship.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Yeah, and leading those conversations begins with
putting yourself out there first, what I call being vulnerable
first.
It might be a stretch of theword vulnerable, but I'm going
to put myself out there so shecan see it.
The fundamental thing I believeyou touched on it was your
women need to feel safe in orderto move forward.
The women that don't need tofeel safe and just do and jump

(41:05):
right in with both feet yeah,that's something to watch out
for.
But the thing that'sinteresting, when you're a
single dad and you're dating,you've got double duty in that
sense of security.
So the first question is am Isafe with this man?
Can I trust this man?
If I say no to this man, willhe listen or is he going to get
too emotional or too horny tohear what I'm saying?

(41:28):
That's a question that a womanis going to ask with every
single man that she's on a datewith.
The second element that she hasto feel safe with is your
situation.
When you're a single man withno kids, the situation is pretty
simple.
Really.
There's not a whole lot comingwith it.
However, she is, and women aremuch more environmentally and

(41:50):
socially driven than men are.
They know there's anotherparent.
They know that these kids aretraveling back and forth and
they're highly sensitive to whatthat environment is going to be
like and they don't want toabsorb that crap.
So they're asking first, am Isafe with this man?
But then they're asking am Isafe in this situation?
Am I safe with these kids, withthis ex, with all these

(42:13):
different elements?
And so it's not enough toestablish to the woman she can
trust you as a man.
You need to show her that shecan also trust the situation
that she's walking into by beinginvolved in your life.
What do you think about thatdude?
Does that resonate with yourexperience?

Speaker 1 (42:31):
100%.
And the only thing I'll add tothat is that takes time, so that
takes time and I highly highlyrecommend taking that time to
allow that to unfold in anatural way, to allow her to see
that and feel that beforegetting really physically
involved or really intimatelyinvolved or starting to

(42:53):
introduce kids and all thatstuff, Really try to take your
time and if you think you'regoing slow, go about 50% slower,
more, right.
Okay.
So because we, that's justnatural, we want to and we want
to jump and we that's why weprocreate, right.
But if you think you're goingslow, slow it down even even

(43:16):
more.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
Yeah, what do they say in motorcycle school?
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
I think it's very true when itcomes to dating.
When you slow it down, moreit's going to be smoother, and
the smoother it is, the fasterit's going to end up going.
So this actually reminds me DrJohn Gray, the author of Men Are
From Mars, women Are From Venus.
You know old book, 30 years oldnow, I think something like
that.
But there's one line that heputs in there, that is, men are

(43:41):
like blowtorches and women arelike ovens.
So you know we want to jump inthere.
We're the blowtorch, like youknow.
Turn the valve, whoosh.
You know you've got this bigburst of flame and you go from
zero to all hot real fast.
And then also, similarly, wecan go from all hot to not
interested just as fast.
So we're like blowtorches onand off very quickly.

(44:03):
Women on the other side of thespectrum are more like ovens.
I want my frozen pizza.
However, that oven is going totake a minimum of 20 minutes
before I can even take the pizzaout of the freezer, get the
plastic wrap off of it, put iton the cookie sheet, slide it in
and then start to cook.

(44:23):
I mean like we're talking in,you know like 40 minutes.
You know it's like that's anoven and so in the dating
scenario, you know, I mean menare like I guess you could call
it fast food.
You know, it could be likepicking up a pizza versus
warming up the oven to cook apizza and all of that.
But the flip side and I'm suremost men listening to this

(44:43):
podcast can relate to this thatwomen will hold on to that heat,
they will hold on to thatchemistry, they will hold on to
that desire when you're likegirl, why are you still here?
I am not feeding you anymore.
I unplugged the oven a whileago and it's still hot.
That's the wonderful nature ofovens.

(45:06):
They take a long time to warmup, but once they're there, you
can count on them to really bethere.
And that's, and then a lot oftimes, I think, is where women
get frustrated with guys, isthey're.
They're wondering why, why?
How can this guy just suddenlygo cold on me?
How can this guy suddenly loseinterest?
Because in their nature, oncethey're warmed up, they're going

(45:27):
to retain that heat and thatinterest for quite a while.
So just want to throw that outthere.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Go ahead.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Yeah, I like that.
Actually, although I'm going to, I'm going to up, I'm going to,
I'm not going to upgrade.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
I'm going to change that analogy for guys and that's
to a smoker.
So I like, I like smokers andsmoking meat.
Right, I know there's probablysome guys listening.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
We were talking cigars here for a minute and I'm
like where are you going withthis?
No, no, no, no, no, no to asmoker.
And it's the same concept.
It's low and slow, you'retaking your time and it's really
filling up the meat with moreflavor, right, it's going to add
more flavor.
It's going to add more flavor.
It's going to add more moisture.
It's going to last longer.

(46:13):
It takes significantly longer,right, it takes significantly
longer.
It's kind of the same ovenconcept, right, because you're
doing it really really low, butI don't even think anybody bakes
anything at 200 degrees or 225like a smoker.
I mean, you're literally takingfive times the amount of time
that it would take.

(46:33):
Think of that relationship, thesame way as your smoker and
everything that you're addinginto that in that time, which is
, you're adding water formoisture, you're adding more
chips for smoke, you're addingsmoke.
That's all enhancing therelationship.
And and while you're doing that, you're adding a rub on the, on

(46:55):
the meats too, like there's somany different things that
you're doing, you might, youmight wrap it for a while at a
certain point.
There's so many differentthings, but while you're doing
that, what is what is, what ishappening is exactly what dallas
just described, which is thenyou're, you're creating this
like, like this almost containerfor her.

(47:16):
Right, then that she is like,oh, wow, yeah, I feel I feel
really good, I feel reallycomfortable, I feel really safe
in this, you know, in thissmoker with all, with all of
this stuff, right, right, I mean, come on, guys, can guys can
get to this one, right, like I'mnot gonna, I'm not gonna be

(47:36):
able to smoke meat anymore,dallas, without thinking about
my next relationship.
So, this weekend, when I'msmoking some meat, I'm going to
be thinking about this now.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah, and what you're doing that entire time is you
are literally transforming thatmeat, you know, and if you and
if you try to transform it in aflash, you're going to burn the
outside and the inside is notgoing to be cooked.
What you're talking about is aslow transformation so that it
can permeate the, the entiresubject matter.
You know, piece of piece ofmeat in place of woman, because

(48:08):
because that's the thing is, wedo want to transform them into
someone that is way into us whenwe're a stranger.
They're not, and it takes timefor them to warm up to it.
I want to bring up some of thereally typical philosophy and
rules and just popular thinkingout there that guys have that
can really trip you up in thisprocess.

(48:30):
So one of them is like okay,well, it's.
You know, first date, we kiss.
Okay, well, that's sort of anarbitrary rule.
If you guys have a greatconnection and the kiss doesn't
feel right, put it back in, judeSmoker.
You know, like, wrap that shitup, give it another rub and come

(49:05):
back in a week, and you know,and then open it up and see how
it smells, see how it's doing.
And even on the second dateit's like oh man, if she doesn't
kiss me on a second date, likeno way, like this, this she's
not into it, from apredetermined mindset of what
this will look like.
If there isn't a kiss on thesecond date, I'm out of here,
she's closed off or whateverthat can really get in the way

(49:25):
of the process of thetransformation that happens
inside the smoker.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
Yeah, well, and that brings up the point of all this
stuff that's on the Internetgame theory, all the other stuff
that's there.
Take some of that with a grainof salt.
If it's going to help you to bemore confident in how you are,
how you're interacting with awoman, that gives you some,

(49:54):
maybe tips on stuff, that'sgreat.
Don't take this stuff as, likeyou said, well, it's got to be
day one you kiss.
By day three she should sleep,like all this crap that's out
there.
It is completely arbitrary.
Every person is unique anddifferent.
Each one of you that'slistening is unique and
different.
You bring all your unique anddifferent things from your

(50:16):
entire life and your personalityto a relationship.
The person you're with is allthat too, so when you bring them
together, it's its own uniqueand different relationship, and
so you've got to just know thatall of what you're just
describing, dallas, is just takeit with a grain of salt and
then focus in.
If you're focused in onyourself and how you're showing

(50:41):
up and then taking the cues fromhow she is showing up and then
also communicating, I would say,dallas, right, like you're
going to know if you're talkingabout this stuff or you're
creating that environment towhere maybe somebody would feel
comfortable.
You know, are you going to?
Is somebody going to?
Is somebody going to feelcomfortable if you're like out

(51:03):
hiking and running around tostart making out with you?
Probably not Right, so that'sdon't try to do that Like, but
maybe if you had a romanticdinner and you went for a walk
around the lake after orsomething like that, then maybe
there's an opportunity there.
So you got to put some thoughtinto that too, and then that
makes it.
You know, here's another way tothink of it.

(51:24):
And so I'm so ridiculouslyhopelessly romantic to Dallas is
, when I'm thinking about this,I think, well, there's never
going to be another opportunity,there's never going to be
another first date with thisperson.
So when I show up for a firstdate, I'm like I want this to be
a great first date becausemaybe this is the woman I'm
going to marry and we're goingto be telling somebody maybe our

(51:48):
grandkids, at least ourchildren right now, or at least
my children about our first date.
I want that to be memorable.
Same thing first kiss.
I want the first kiss to bememorable.
I want these things to bememorable because there's never
going to be a second one.
There's never going to be asecond first date.
There's not going to be asecond first kiss.

(52:08):
There's not going to be asecond one of these, and I know
it sounds ridiculously romantic,but I feel like if you approach
things more intentionally likethat, you're going to have a lot
better outcomes going forwardin all of your interactions.
Even if it's a first date thatdoesn't work out right, it's
still going to be a betterexperience for both.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
And I think women love it when a man comes to the
table with what you justdescribed meaning you want it to
be a better experience for both.
Yeah, and I think women love itwhen a man comes to the table
with what you just describedmeaning you want it to be
meaningful.
You know, one of the thingsthat is commonly said is women
want an emotional experience.
When you're looking for thesethings to feel special, the
likelihood of it being a moreemotional experience for her
goes up, and I would say there'sdefinitely a paradox, because

(52:57):
you have to just let it unfoldin the moment, and sometimes the
quiet moments are the mostprofound and the most enjoyable.
I think the analogy is a lotlike sailing on the ocean the
sailboat, the sailor insidethat's the man, the ocean that's
the woman, and everything elsegoing on.

(53:17):
You never move in a straightline to where you're going.
You set a course, you're tryingto get there, but the wind is
blowing one way, waves areblowing another way.
You have to change courseseveral times and if you're a
good sailor, you will get whereyou want to go, but you have to
accept that this isn't a perfectstraight line.
You have to accept that thisisn't a perfect straight line.

(53:39):
You have to let the elementshave the impact that they're
going to have and, as much aspossible, enjoy the paradox, the
struggle that you have to do tonavigate yourself to get there.
And the word I like to use and Iuse it all the time is hold it
loosely.
It's like if you're expecting adate, a kiss on the first date,
if you're expecting sex on thethird date and if this doesn't

(54:00):
happen, guys, that's rigid, thatis really, really rigid.
Women don't like rigid men.
Rigid men are scary becausewhat happens when that rigid man
finally breaks?
She doesn't want to be aroundfor that.
When that rigid man finallybreaks, she doesn't want to be
around for that.
Rigid men are not men thatwomen are attracted to, men that
have things that they desire,men that make their move, men

(54:22):
that step in and go for the kissthey are very attracted to
those men.
But men that are simplyfollowing rigid rules sorry,
most women are just not into it.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
Yep, I agree 100%, all right.
So let's recap what we just notinto it.
Yep, I agree, a hundred percent, all right.
So let's recap what we learnedfrom this movie.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
What movie I've forgotten.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
at this point, I think we, we yeah, we, we went
from Hollywood to smoking meat,which I think is a is a.
You know, I'm just going to sayI think that's a great, a great
analogy, but I think that's agreat analogy.
But let's, yeah, I don't knowif there is a linear path of

(55:05):
what we learned, but I would saythat from the movie, with the
kind of polarity that they show,that if I'm going to sum up,
kind of what we talked abouttoday, that there's, there's an
in-between of what that thatmovie shows.
Again, it's Hollywood.
They make crap up, they takesome of the most ludicrous part

(55:26):
of parts of of things, and and,and, and and and show those, and
then they and then they show ahuge polarity and whatnot.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
But and I think that in-between place that Dakota
Johnson is looking for is shedoesn't want the actor that is
still behaving like he's in his20s when he's in his 30s, and
she doesn't want the guy thatsimply checks all the boxes but
doesn't bring some of the souland life and adventure.
What she wants is a man thatfuses the two of those together,

(55:55):
which means that the guy that'sjust following his dreams has
to step up his game and makesure that he's bringing the
things to the table, and it alsomeans that these ridiculous
expectations that social mediagives us about how insanely
wealthy we have to be are notnecessary.
You don't have to be that richfor a woman to be very happy
with your financial situation.

(56:16):
They really don't.
It's really finding the rightblend of the two together.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
Yeah, and I think the word that came to my mind when
you were just describing allthat is somebody who's real,
like a man who's real and not areal man in the air quote thing,
like I'm a real man, likesomebody who's just showing up,
real.
That's who they, this is who Iam, this is my situation, this
is where I'm, this is what Iwant, this is where I'm going,

(56:44):
this is how I'm trying to do it.
I want to share that, have theadventure, love life, love your
children and I think that'sprobably the majority of the
dads that are listening.
It's just figuring out how toget there, how to do it and how
to find somebody with it, how tofind somebody to do it with.
But that's why you got to tunein next week and listen to the

(57:07):
next episode, because we'll becovering something else that'll
help you do that rightAbsolutely.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
And finding that path as a solid man when you're a
single dad is just extra hard,extra difficult.
But when you come through theother side of that you are even
more solid.
You know, after you've had thesetback and then you build again
, it's even stronger than it wasthe first time.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
And that's so sexy to a woman and a huge, huge
opportunity to model for yourkids.
But that's a whole notherconversation.
It was a great conversation.
Actually.
We did better the second time.
So maybe we need to do thisevery week, like have a half
hour conversation.
I don't know if we've got thetime to do that.
I know I don't.
I'm sure you don't.

(57:53):
You're a busy man, all right,so how do the listeners.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Get a hold of you.
Getting a hold of meblackboxdatingcom.
The place you start is reallywith the group coaching monthly
subscription or annualsubscription.
That's where you get on board.
You get to learn how all of itworks.
Two-week free trial to test itall out, see how you like it.
I only take on private coachingclients.
Do work in the field with menthat have already done a certain

(58:19):
amount of group coaching.
I've just found that the groupcoaching is really where guys
start.
So yeah, check me out there.
Jude same to you.
How can people know more aboutwhat you do and how they can get
all your wisdom?

Speaker 1 (58:26):
Yeah, Divorced Dads, check out thedivorcedadvocatecom
.
We've got resources there foryou.
Whether you're contemplatingdivorce, going through divorce,
post-divorce, we've gotsomething for you, and we've got
resources that span from freeto paid to private coaching as
well.
So check that out atthedivorcedadvocatecom Dallas

(58:49):
always a pleasure.
Look forward to chatting againnext week.
Thanks, Jude, See you next week.
Bye.