15 - Dating Younger: Fantasy or Fulfillment?

The dating world doesn't come with a rulebook, especially for those navigating it after divorce. In this candid conversation, Jude and Dallas tackle the recent controversy surrounding the Golden Bachelor's age preferences and what it reveals about the complex world of dating in midlife.

When 66-year-old Mel Owens stated he preferred to date women between 45-60, the backlash was immediate. But does having age preferences make someone shallow, or is it simply an honest acknowledgment of compatibility factors? The hosts explore how our dating preferences develop, why they matter, and when they might need examination.

For divorced dads, understanding the concept of the "sexual marketplace" can be eye-opening. Many men underestimate their value after divorce, not realizing that maturity, stability, and having your life in order can be powerfully attractive qualities. The key distinction emerges between preferences that lead to fulfillment versus those that merely satisfy short-term cravings.

What makes this conversation particularly valuable is the practical wisdom offered for those balancing dating with parenting responsibilities. Finding someone with compatible values and lifestyle is crucial, yet emotional connection remains the foundation of any meaningful relationship. Jude shares from personal experience how transformative post-divorce dating can be when approached with self-awareness and intention.

Whether you're newly divorced or years into single parenthood, this episode provides a framework for examining what you truly want in a relationship versus what you think you should want. The hosts offer complementary perspectives that acknowledge both the emotional journey and practical realities of finding connection after divorce.

Ready to approach dating with greater clarity and confidence? Connect with Dallas at blackboxdating.com or find divorce resources with Jude at thedivorcedadvocate.com and discover how to create the fulfilling relationships you deserve.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to Dad's Dating After Divorce, the
only podcast for dads navigatingthe wild, weird and, I guess,
sometimes wonderful scene ofdating in the 21st century.
My name is Jude Sandoval.
I am the founder of theDivorced Advocate and my co-host

(00:20):
, Dallas Bluth, the dating andrelationship coach of Black Box
Dating Dallas, how are you doingtoday?
Doing fabulous, Jude.
How are you doing?
I'm doing terrific as well.
I am intrigued to get into andto hear your take on our topic
today, which is around age anddating, and I'm prefacing this

(00:45):
in and I got to say I think thatI've found probably the only
other person that is like lessup on current events and kind of
like pop culture than myselfwith you, which I really
appreciate, and I think maybeit's just because I have teenage
daughters that I've like havejust a little advantage on you.
So it works out in this contextbecause it at least gives us

(01:07):
some ability for you not to knowexactly what I'm talking about
and me bring topics that allowus to chat about or at least
incorporate some pop referencecultures.
Otherwise it'd just be two oldguys talking about dating, which
would be pretty boring, Didthis one specifically come from
your daughters?

Speaker 2 (01:25):
this topic.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
No, actually this one did not come from my daughters.
This one came from me scrollingsomething somewhere at some
time and it popped up.
So what we're talking about isthe newest iteration of the
Bachelor is out and they'recalling it the Golden Bachelor,
and I just got to say off thebat I just do not like this show

(01:51):
at all period.
I never have the premise of itis ridiculous.
You're not going to fall inquote-unquote love in 10
episodes or however manyepisodes.
They do it and then they expectit, I guess, to propose and try
to get married after and thenthey carry this on after.
It's just a market.
It's a whole big marketing BSthing.

(02:13):
Anyway, so just to say that Idon't necessarily follow this
because I don't want everybodyto be like Jesus.
You lost all credibility.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
We just lost half our audience right there, right,
exactly so just prefacing thatguys.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
But what is interesting?
So they have the goldenbachelor.
Golden is older, so he, the,the, the bachelors, and the
bachelor and the and the ladies,I guess, are 60 plus or some
age.
This is where kind of the issuehas come in.
So he is 66 years old, Ibelieve, and the bachelor's name

(02:54):
is Mel Owens.
And he's 66 years old and atsome point previously, when they
were doing some promos orsomething about it, they asked
him what his preferred age rangewas and he just innocently and
just matter of factly said 45 to60.
And they were like, oh no, youcan't limit it only to 60.

(03:20):
You're 66 years old.
And he said, well, I'm justgoing to be cutting anybody over
60 because that's just not myage range.
And so, as you can imagine,that struck a nerve, right.
So we'll get into why it strucka nerve a little bit of

(03:40):
background or just a little bitof groundwork on his background
because I thought, okay, well,let me there's always more to
the story to try to understandwhy somebody might have a
preference or whatever.
So I did a little research onMel Owens.
He's a former number one draftpick football player, so in the
1980s he was a number one draftpick.

(04:03):
He played, I think, for theRams for a while in the NFL, so
very high performing athlete atsome point in his life.
And then he went and got a lawdegree after his NFL career was
over and then started asuccessful law firm in
California and has done that, Iguess, for quite a while now.

(04:27):
He was married at one point, sohe is a divorced dad as a matter
of fact.
I think he has two boys and hewas married for, I think, 23
years.
So he had a long-term marriage,successful marriage, I would
say, 23 years together.
So you, you got to do somethingright to stay together for that
period of time.
But the interesting part ofthis is that his ex-wife is 19

(04:54):
years younger than him.
So this was kind of already histhing, right, the preference and
20, almost 20 years differenceDidn't get married until he was,
I think, like 43, 44 years old.
So that would have made hisex-wife somewhere around 23, 24,

(05:16):
25.
And then they had two sons andthey've raised two sons.
They're, I guess, 18 or 20 orsomething like that now, and so
now he's divorced, he's a goldenbachelor, he's back in the
dating game and I guess hisdivorce was only finalized
sometime last year, sorelatively new.
So there's some correlations tothe dad's listening as well.

(05:38):
So let's just maybe start offfirst with what's your reaction
to this when you just hear himsay hey well, my age range is 45
to 60.
He's 66.
Now you know a little bit abouthis background.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah.
Well, my first question is okay, he signed up for a show here
that it sounds like it'sdesigned for not just the
bachelor being over 60, but, youknow, the, the women that he's
potentially falling in love withand getting married to by the
end of the season.
I mean, again, it's all justentertainment, that's all it is.
I.
I let it go with that.

(06:17):
But I'm wondering, dude, you'resigning up for a show and then
you're shooting yourself in thefoot right before it starts.
Maybe if he'd been single for awhile, you know, and there was
a little bit of history outthere, and then he signed up for
the show, and that would maybemake more sense.
But somebody didn't coach thisguy right, pun intended.

(06:37):
They did not prepare him forwell, I guess what first season,
I don't know we're going tostart making some really bad
parallels here.
But, like I guess what Firstseason, I don't know, we're
going to start making somereally bad parallels here.
But first season draft pick fora senior dating, I'm pretty
sure.
When I looked at some of thedetails up briefly, it looks
like all the women I think wereover 60 for the show.

(07:00):
I would like to know what thecontext was for the podcast.
Were they asking himspecifically in the show?
I would like to know what thecontext was for the podcast.
Were they asking himspecifically in the show?
When he says he disqualifiespeople over 60?
Is he talking about in hisprivate dating life or is he
talking about for the sake ofthe show?

Speaker 1 (07:14):
So for the sake of the show he said.
He simply said and I think thecontext where this conversation
was happening is they were, theywere talking about, he was
talking about how we got picked,et cetera.
And then they were at, theywere asking about what the
producers asked him, and he saidthey asked age ranges.
But then he made the comment Iam going to, I am going to, I'm

(07:38):
going to rule out anybody over60 because I and so that what he
added onto that then also was Idon't want to deal with anybody
with hip replacements or healthissues or stuff like that,
right?
So then he not only ruled outpeople, but then he also kind of
like exacerbated the situationa little bit.

(08:00):
And look, I actually I'm notgetting on him about this my, my
take.
Well, I'll give you my takeafter I give you, if you give,
give our take.
But so that's why, that's kindof why he said it, that's kind
of the context in which he saidit.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
So yeah, I mean, I feel like we're blending
together reality and televisionhere.
I don't.
I think he's speaking from theheart about what he truly
prefers and again, I don't thinkhe's prepping himself, I don't
think he's remembering thatthere's going to be a show and
that what he says is going tohave an impact on the show.
I just don't think he wasprepared, I don't think he was

(08:37):
coached right for what to expect.
I mean, to me it sounds likehis understanding of the show
and the way that the show runsare very different.
So for me I just sort of laughabout it.
And who knows, maybe this waseven designed, you know, to be
something to boost ratings, tograb more attention, to create a
little bit of sizzle for theseason before it comes out.

(08:59):
I mean, that might also be thecase.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah, I mean that's as far as the show goes.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
I mean as far as a 66-year-old man who was married
for 23 years, single, and thenwants to date women that are
anywhere from like.
What about 20, 25?

Speaker 1 (09:15):
to five years younger than him.
No, no, no, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So he said 45 to 60.
Oh, 45.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Okay yeah, so 20 to five years younger than him.
I mean, that's a differentstory in your own personal
dating life.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, right.
So let's talk about that.
Because when I heard it I waslike, okay, well, no big deal,
there was nothing that set meoff as a guy and actually that
kind of range seems to be kindof where I'm comfortable with,
also in my dating life, not tosay that I wouldn't date
somebody my age or date somebodyolder than me.

(09:50):
I have in fact done that but Ihave a range and it's a
preference.
I have legitimate reasonsbehind the preference.
So for me I was just like, ohwell, he's just being honest.
And if they were picking him tobe honest and then they wanted
him to actually find somebodythat he was comfortable with,
and well, why wouldn't they thendo that?
Because then they were like, ohwell, you've got to apologize

(10:12):
and now you know we're going tofind.
And then they started with, oh,we're going to find beautiful
women, you don't have to worry,they're going to be great and
they're going to be so it okay.
Well, why are you trying tothen just maneuver and fit
something in that is, you know,under all these false kind of
like pretenses and guises andsetups, right, it's just, that's

(10:33):
his preference, that's whathe's going to be comfortable
with, that's maybe, maybethere's, I don't know, maybe
there's a a way in which herelates and I and I was going to
get to this a little bit later,but maybe he relates better and
and that could to get to this alittle bit later, but maybe he
relates better.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
And that could just be a personality, right?
Yeah?
Yeah, I think the word you'reusing there is the right word to
use it's preference.
Everyone has their preference.
They have body types that theyprefer.
They have personalities thatthey prefer.
They have relative age rangesto themselves that they prefer.
They have professions theyprefer.
None of these are hard and fastrules, but we all have
preferences and we have to letpeople have them.
To attack someone's preferencesreally is trying to impose on

(11:17):
somebody else what they shouldlike, what they should be
attracted to.
That's not how this works, andyou're fighting people's nature
by trying to shame them or tryto influence what they're drawn
to.
You don't want to do that.
I mean, if you want them to bedrawn to you, if you're outside
of somebody's age range andyou're hoping that they're going

(11:39):
to be drawn to you anyways,there's nothing that stops you
from trying to be effective inattracting them.
But to attack someone'spreferences, that's just going
to cause them to close up, lockup further and not be interested
.
So you have to accept yourpreferences and, to your point,
you want to be honest withyourself about what your
preferences are.
You don't want to hide them.

(11:59):
You don't want to wonder ohwell, this is wrong if I do this
or I do that.
That doesn't mean we have topublicly tell television and the
world what our preferences are.
But I think we should be honestwith ourselves and honest with
the people that we meet that areasking about it.
This is where I am, this iswhat I like, this is what I'm
into.
Preferences are not to bejudged.

(12:22):
I mean, it's what we like andthere's something out there for
everybody.
There really is.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
Right, well, and so what I took exception to here
was then it became well, you'reinsulting, you're insulting
women, your age, it's like no,not really.
But because there is a legitlook, there's a legitimate
concern with women in their midto late 60s with health issues,

(12:48):
and that includes hipreplacements.
And that's men too, right.
So that's both.
As we age, our bodies wear out,and that is something.
But there are some of us thathave a much different lifestyle,
have a much different fitnesslevel.
Like I've got a friend in hismid-60s literally can out-hike

(13:13):
me, outrun everything.
I hiked a 14er with him thissummer.
He's like way, way more fitthan I am in his mid-60s, right,
he's got a much youngergirlfriend because his lifestyle
is that way.
Because somebody his age, awoman his age unless there's

(13:35):
exceptions, right, but themajority cannot just literally I
can't keep up with him.
I'm a male younger than him, awoman his age just will never
keep up with him.
And we've never talked aboutthis, like there's never been a
conversation.
I just like I recognize it andI see that in him and know that
the same way I feel as well,because there is like I'd like

(13:59):
to be really, really active andphysically fit and being out
there, and that is not everybody, and that tends to be a younger
mindset, if you will.
And so what do you have to sayabout that younger mindset?
And again, let me just put that, let's put a caveat Like there
can be older women that do havethat same physical desire and

(14:22):
physical lifestyle and healthylifestyle or whatever it is.
So, but it seems, at least inmy estimation okay, this might
be where I'm going to getcontrol here.
It seems that it's a minorityrather than a majority.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
Yeah, I've heard a lot of.
To me it makes sense, and Ithink it's a question of
compatibility.
Again, coming back to it, yourpreferences are your preferences
.
You don't have to explain it,you just have to own it.
As far as reasons for yourpreferences, if there are good
reasons, that's awesome.
There doesn't have to be.
If you have a very activelifestyle and the woman that

(14:57):
you're dating or, for women, theman that you're dating if they
don't meet your lifestylebecause you're 66 and you are
super fit and you're out theredoing things and, seriously,
you're just smoking other peoplethat are your age it makes
sense for you to date somebodyoutside of your age range, and
that's a practical reason thatcomes into play.
I've heard a lot of women voicethe exact same concerns about

(15:20):
dating somebody that is theirage or older.
Lots of women that I've met intheir 50s and 60s, even, I think
, sometimes in their 70s, theywill share with me that they
want to date a younger man.
They want to date a man that's10 or 15 years younger than them
, and they're stating the samereasons that you are, which is
well, not that you are, but thesame reason that Mel brought up,

(15:41):
which is the health issues.
People.
There are going to be healthissues as we get older for
everybody.
When we're talking about Mel,he's I don't know if you I mean
he's not a celebrity, but he'sdefinitely upper class wealthy.
I'm guessing he ran a law firmfor a long time.
He was a number one draft pickfor the NFL.

(16:02):
I mean, was a number one draftpick for the NFL.
I mean he's bringing a certainlevel of status to the table,
and so when he says, yeah, Iwant to date somebody that's 15,
20 years younger than me, oronly five years younger than him
, we have to realize there's amarketplace here.
There are preferences that weall have.
But then what do you bring intothe table?

(16:23):
You know, financially,physically, socially all these
elements come into play and wehave to sort it out.
The thing that I find a problemis when well, two things.
One is when people are settingsaying this is what I deserve,
this is what I'm entitled to,and they're not really bringing
enough to the table to really toreally be able to earn that.

(16:44):
It's like, well, when I meet aguy that wants to date a woman
that's 20 years younger than himand he's super out of shape, he
doesn't have his finances inplace, there's a bunch of things
to see.
I'm asking him if you were thiswoman, are you the guy that she
would pick?
Does this feel like a naturalmatch in the marketplace?

(17:06):
If you just take a step back, Iunderstand it's what you want
and I'm not even saying youcan't get it.
But you have to take a stepback and pull yourself out of
your own selfish desires and saydoes this line up and make
sense?
Yeah, that's, I think.
Where a lot of people get hungup is they get attached to what

(17:27):
their preferences are and theirdesires and they're not honest
with themselves about how theyline up in the overall
marketplace.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yeah, well, yeah, and then we get the mob out there,
that is.
Then there is this mobmentality of, well, you can't
say that because that'sdisrespectful, like what else,
it's not.
It is absolutely positively notat least in my estimation to be
able to talk about yourpreferences, of what you want,
and that's perfectly, perfectlyfine.

(17:55):
And let's talk a little bitabout.
You brought up the sexualmarketplace, right, there is
such a thing and there is such athing as your sexual market
value and that varies throughoutyour life.
That varies differentlythroughout your life for men and

(18:16):
differently for women.
And so if you don't know that Ithink this is where you get the
people going oh, he can't dothat, he can't.
But if you do know andunderstand that, then you're
like well, yeah, duh, I mean,that makes sense really.
He was already married and I'mnot surprised to see that he was
already married to somebody 20years younger for 23 years, and

(18:38):
she had children with him, etc.
That makes perfect sense to menow that he said that, because
he's actually alreadyexperienced his.
He's already, he's alreadyestablished himself his sexual
market value in the sexualmarketplace one.
So he knows what that is.
Now what I'm disappointed is hecame groveling back, probably

(19:00):
because he had this still inorder to stay on the show.
He probably had to say I'm sosorry, and blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah and all that crap.
If he was honest, he would havejust said look, this is my
sexual market value on thesexual market in the sexual
marketplace.
This is what I want, let's gowith it.
If you don't want to, then youknow we'll.
We'll not do the show, but hedidn't, so but whatever.

(19:22):
So let's, let's define firstsexual, the sexual markets, and
then what like sexual marketvalues are, and then how those
are different with men and women.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, I'm not sure that I'm really qualified to
define what the sexualmarketplace is Basically.
I think it's.
I think it's pretty.
I think it's pretty clear thatsome people okay, well, okay, I
can talk about the dating appscene.
That for sure it's a it's aweird market.
But in in the online datingapps, I believe it's something
like three to 5% of the men getsomething like over 90% of the

(20:01):
messaging and dates and sex withthe women.
So there are a few men bubblingup to the top.
They get most of the attentionthere and that is a particular
type of sexual marketplace.
When you broaden that out toreal life, you know, in real
life it flattens out a littlebit, but not all that much.
There tend to be certain peoplethat are just they're more

(20:22):
attractive and, as a result,they get more choices, they get
more options.
What is attractive in a man andwhat is attractive in a woman is
statistically very clearlyestablished.
Youth in women is veryattractive.
Youth in men has someattraction.
But there are other elementsthat make a man attractive, such

(20:43):
as his being financiallyestablished in life, his wealth.
You just don't have that whenyou're young, unless you were
born in a wealthy family andyou're just going to be
expecting an inheritance.
You've got to build it and thatjust takes time.
Generally speaking, a womanbeing wealthy is not nearly as

(21:03):
attractive.
It doesn't weigh as heavily inmen's attraction to women as a
man's financial situation is inattracting women to him.

(21:24):
On, as the decades move past,you know in your 20s, women have
a lot more power in the sexualmarketplace because of their
youth and because historicallyanyway you know, they tend to be
more fit and in shape.
Personally, I don't see thattrend necessarily holding true
these days.
I'm quite amazed to actuallysee that it's not that someone
is necessarily, you know, awoman is necessarily fit and in
shape when they're in their 20sand then as they get older, you

(21:45):
know that all shifts.
I'm finding that it's kind ofindependent at this point and so
for me some of the traditionalelements of why youthful women
are so sexy to men it's fallingoff a little bit because, well,
because we're not as in shape aswe used to be as a society.
So being in shape seems to beindependent of age at this point

(22:10):
.
So yeah, and as a woman getsolder, the physical beauty fades
and you can do things likeplastic surgery, you can do
other things, but the physicalbeauty again, on average, is
just not going to be the same asit was when you were younger.
The people that are getting madabout this, the people that are
yelling about it I think they'reyelling about it because
they're angry that it shouldn'tbe this way.

(22:31):
I think they're angry about iton principle.
They're saying you can't saythat.
Well, I mean, that's trying todeny what is very statistically
clearly proven that men areattracted to younger women.
One of the early episodes youbrought up dataclysm, and I
don't remember what the exactchart was, but there was this

(22:53):
sort of like cliffhanger momentof swiping on women where it was
, I think, like 22 or 23.
Like 22 or 23.
After that, suddenly men juststopped swiping right.
There was like a drop-off wherethe women swiping to men it was
within a relative age range tothemselves.
Surprisingly, it still didn'tmatch their stated preferences.

(23:14):
So to be clear a statedpreference is what you say you
want and what you say you like.
And then your what do they callit?
Your real preferences, or Iforgot what the complimentary
term is.
But your actual preferencesthat you show in your behavior
ended up not being at all whatthe women said, that their
stated preferences were.

(23:35):
So I don't know when I hearpeople getting angry about these
sorts of things.
I'm like you're angry aboutsomething that is not going to
change anytime soon and gettingangry about it is only going to
exacerbate.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Well so, and so, for me, the sexual market is just
the innate biological way we aredesigned to be attracted to
each other, and so, then, yoursexual market value is based
upon what those traits are thatyou would exhibit in that market
that will attract a mate to you.

(24:11):
And so you talked about thedifferences in what is
attractive for a woman to a manand for what a man is to a woman
, and you talked about the.
Dataclysm is just the one ofthe latest and many of the
different, whatever statisticsor studies or whatever that what
you're referencing is is they.

(24:32):
They polled men to find wherethey said, where they thought
the the most attractive womenwere, and it was literally a
straight up and down line.
At like that, 22 or 21, 20,like every, the most attractive
women to men are that age, andthat is just by design, like
that's not, it's not, you know,and that doesn't mean I think we

(24:54):
should add that that doesn'tmean that we're all going
looking to dating, dating themright, because now we have a
higher level of consciousness,we need to make decisions based
upon our lives.
All kinds of other things go inthat, but when we're looking at
it from just a biologicalperspective.

(25:15):
That is what we are wired tolook at, find attractive and be
drawn to, and so that is not abad thing.
This is this, this whole mindsetthat that some have in our
society of wanting to, to, todeny these just ways in which
men and women are wireddifferently, and it's, and when

(25:35):
we start getting into that, theproblem is that then you start
causing problems when you wantto try to, to, to, to change
that.
It's not.
You know, working within thatis better than trying to change
somebody's mindset or even, likein this case, guilt somebody
around around what is just anatural way, because we don't do
it the other, the other way.

(25:55):
Right, there's you talked about, there's things that women look
at that are attractive to men.
So there isn't that up and downattractive line for women at 21
or 22, because 21 and 22 aremen don't provide the same, the
ability to protect, the abilityto provide.

(26:17):
You know, some of these otherthings that are natural, whether
women know it or not, are justnaturally things that they look
at in men, that make them, thatdraw them towards them.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Right.
Well, men do like get upsetabout this, but we get upset
about it for the most part withother men.
You know the whole manosphereis based on.
It's unfair what women areasking for from men.
So men do do this, we.
Just we do it very differently.

(26:50):
We don't, we don't go.
You don't see men showing up ontalk shows accusing women of
being very unfair, like wedidn't.
We don't do it that way.
Instead, we're we're busy awayon our keyboards in our mother's
basements, you know,complaining about it in a whole
different.
Yeah, some of us, I mean, butwhat I'm saying is the men that
are complaining about it.
That tends to be the way thatthey do it.
They they tend to be.
We tend to get angry andfrustrated in in a, in a, in a

(27:12):
private setting.
You know that, and we tend to,like, you know, bitch about it
with other dudes like that, andyou know women do that also.
But we don't, we don't bring itout to the stage and start
calling out women and, you know,cancel culture in them or
whatever, because, you know,because of their preferences, we
just get frustrated and well,and then we, and then we accused
that the whole game is riggedagainst us Again.

(27:33):
I'm not one of those guys, butthere are a lot of guys that
that's where the frustration andanger kick in.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
Yeah, well, that's interesting because at least the
guys that I come in contactwith, there's more there feels
like there's more of a mentalityof what, well, then, go fix it
Right, because you got it.
And that's kind of a malemindset too.
So, which, which can be healthy, I think, is good.
So, are you not?
And you mentioned some of themand, and unfortunately these are

(28:00):
the things are you in a goodfinancial place?
Are you good mentally,emotionally, like?
Are you fit?
Have you taken care of yourself?
Are you going to be somebodythat somebody's going to have to
be caring for and basicallytaking care of another child for
the rest of your life?
So are these things?
And if they're not, at least theguys that I come in contact

(28:22):
with, it's like well, go fix itNow.
Lots of times when we get thatin our head, we think things
like oh, I got to go make moremoney, I got to become rich,
this is the only thing that Ican do, and that's a false
narrative.
And again, anything thatbecomes extreme then becomes
unhealthy, right, toxic, if youwill.
I hate what, I hate that word,but anything that becomes too

(28:45):
much can become toxic in yourbody, in your life, whatever it
is.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think what you're touching onthere is the fact that there is
a sexual marketplace, but wehave maneuverability within the
sexual marketplace.
And you're totally right.
The type of guy that I'mdescribing is essentially not
much of a man.
He's immature, he's blamingothers, he's not taking

(29:10):
responsibility for his own lotin life and he's yelling and
pointing the finger outwardlyrather than reflecting inwardly
to find out what are the leversand bootstraps that he has at
his disposal that can change hisreality.
And when a guy starts to engagewith those elements, he changes
his marketability in the sexualmarketplace.

(29:32):
He makes himself more desirable.
And the interesting thing is,we tend to look at these
marketplaces as a way for us totell us how we're doing inside.
But there is no meter.
We can't go to the doctor andyou measure your height and then
you measure your sexualmarketplace marketability.
We can't do that.
There's no such instrument.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Well, you can in some sense by the success that
you're having in it, right Ifyou're attracting who it is that
you're wanting.
So that is a tool by which youcan measure yourself.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yes, you can.
It's hard to control for justsort of good luck, randomness,
other elements in your life.
I was talking about just sortof knowing that I'm going up.
What I was leading to is thereis a much more subtle indicator,
though on the inside.
When feel more relaxed, whenyou feel more confident, when
you make fewer excuses andreally when you stop explaining

(30:27):
yourself and you're simplycoming back to the original
point, stating what yourpreferences are and saying this
is what I like and this is whatI'm bringing to the table in
exchange for them, and you startfinding women that that that
say yes to that, then you knowthat you're increasing your
value in the sexual marketplace.
But the real indicator isessentially your state inside of

(30:49):
yourself.
Are you feeling calm?
Are you feeling confident?
Are you feeling collected?
Does your life make sense toyou?
That is, a man that has ahigher value in the sexual
marketplace?
The guys that start out andthey're complaining and they're
pointing the finger and they'reblaming and they're saying this
is never going to happen.
This isn't fair.

(31:09):
Those feelings inside ofyourself, without having to look
at how women respond to you,those feelings in yourself are
the best, most reliableindicator of what your value is,
in a very fundamental sense, inthe sexual marketplace.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, and so that's a great point.
To bring it back to divorce andgoing through a divorce,
because lots of times ourwhatever you want to call it our
self-esteem, our ego orwhatever takes a hit through
that Right, because this was ahuge, huge thing that's happened
.
And, guys, listen, you're goingto just hear this theme over

(31:48):
and over with Dallas and I abouttalking about finding out where
you're at, doing aself-assessment, understanding
how you're feeling about thingsand about yourself, and then
what to do in going forwardabout things and about yourself,
and then what to go for.
What to do in going forwardLike, like for for, for instance
, somebody could have one ofthese preferences because

(32:09):
they're, they might be, and solet's take it.
Let's let's take it to theunhealthy part we were, we were
talking about, which is a dad'sdivorcing, he's in, he's out
there dating again and he's gotthis preference.
But this preference is maybebecause he wants to relive his
youth, right, because he's, youknow, he's just feeling bad

(32:31):
about having got out of themarriage or whatever, or, or, or
some other healthy dynamic thathe's he's looking to to get
into.
That's not, that's not ahealthy preference.
So let's talk about thesepreferences in the context of
really doing the self-auditing,understanding who you are, what

(32:53):
you're doing, what yoursituation is now and how to
develop that preference.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yeah, that is definitely a deep topic in how
you are going to pull apart yourpreferences and find out which
ones are healthy and which onesare not.
Let me start by saying thisisn't like a one and done thing.
This is something you have tolisten to yourself on an ongoing
basis.
And, yeah, let's see wherewould we start with that

(33:39):
no-transcript girl, like youknow, probably not even out of
college yet Young woman, butpretty young.
You have to ask yourself am Iattracted to that woman because
I feel like I'm going to have anamazing experience?
I'm going to.
She's actually going to make mehappy in my life.
When I imagine bringing herinto my you know, into my

(34:01):
post-divorce family situation, Isee this working out really
well.
Be honest with yourself.
Do you really see a healthy,happy package coming out of that
?
Or is this actually justcraving and craving?
One of the ways of looking atit is an attachment to something
that's pleasurable.
There's no doubt that a young,early 20-year-old girl is

(34:25):
attractive and enjoyable.
There's no doubt about that.
But if you're only pursuingsomething that is kind of like
drinking alcohol, it can bereally fun in the evening.
But is that necessarily anongoing way to create happiness
in your life?
Not really.
It could be something thatyou're your life Not really you
know.
It could be something thatyou're simply craving.
You have to ask yourself isthis desire that I have and here

(34:48):
you got to?
You got to kind of like splitit out into two buckets.
Is this desire a craving typeof desire?
Or is this desire part of ahealthy going to make my whole
life happy and balanced kind ofdesire?

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Right, well, and that's a good point, because
that's not again, that's not bad.
It's not bad as long as youunderstand the, the origin of of
what it is and why you arepursuing this rights and, and
especially, if you're upfrontand honest.
I mean, I've I've dated womenwho are like I just got out of

(35:22):
divorce and I'm just looking forfun, right, like that craving
that you're talking about,that's it.
But they're up front and I'vemet guys too, and when I talk to
other guys they understandwhere you're at and what you
want and why that is.
So that's not necessarily a badthing If dads are listening and
like, yeah, I just, I wouldlike to go have some fun with

(35:43):
somebody that's younger with me.
Just be upfront about that andunderstand that that's what you
are pursuing, and the otherperson understand that that's
what you're pursuing as well.
That's, I think when, when youdon't do that, then then things,
then all those those, thosepeople that are complaining
about stuff, and then all thosepeople that are complaining
about stuff talk about powerimbalances and stuff like that,

(36:07):
because then if you're not beingupfront and you're not being
honest about stuff, then thatcan create stuff like that with
somebody that's younger.
So if you're doing that, that'sfine You're talking about.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
when you mentioned a power imbalance.
To say that a young woman inearly 20s doesn't have a lot of
power over an older man, you'refooling yourself.
There's plenty of power thatshe has.
It's a question of whether ornot she's wielding it, you know
and that kind of power dynamic.
I mean, there is a place for it,and so I have very few rules
that I adhere to strictly whenit comes to my coaching.

(36:43):
One of them is honesty.
You need to be honest.
If you're not going to behonest, I don't want to work
with you.
It's that simple.
Is it always easy to be honest?
No, are you always being honestwith yourself?
Hell, no, that one's very hardto do.
But I have a basic value of youdo need to be honest and, to
the degree that it feelsappropriate in getting involved

(37:03):
with somebody, you want to betransparent with them about what
your intentions are.
So let me also echo one otherthing.
You said somebody getting out ofa divorce.
You mentioned a woman thatyou've, women that you've dated
that are getting out of divorceand they're saying they're not
looking for a relationship, theyjust want to have fun.
That's not necessarily craving.
If they have been sexuallyrepressed during their marriage,

(37:24):
if they never got to enjoy thatpart of their life, part of
them feeling healthy andimbalanced might simply be to
blow out some of the stops andfor them to realize, actually,
no, sex is healthy.
Maybe they were in a veryreligious marriage and sex was
really tied up into weird placesand you know, and it felt very

(37:46):
just just loaded with all kindsof morality and rights and
wrongs and consequences and youknow, and like, beliefs in God
start to come into play.
And those are, those are thingsthat you know.
If a person has a divorce or youknow, just at a certain point
in life, says, you know what?
There are these elements in myown behavior, in my own past,

(38:08):
that are limiting me.
I want to remove them and I'mgoing to have some fun removing
them.
At the same time.
I wouldn't call that craving.
I would call that actually veryintentionally moving towards
what it is that you want toexperience in life.
Again, it could be.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
I mean that so that you know, coming so, coming from
a religious perspective, likethat could be, depending on the
circumstances, depending ontheir belief system.
Again, that goes back to whatwe talked about knowing what it
is that you want, what yourexperience was, why you want
something different, et cetera.
There could, that could be true,what you're saying, that could,

(38:46):
it could just be a craving tooright, like especially in and so
and I want to say that becauseI don't want to, I don't want my
, I don't want the, the, the,the Christian or the religious
people that are listening aboutthis feel like we're criticizing
a religious belief around sexor whatnot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(39:06):
So I just wanted to clarifythat.
I know that's not what youmeant, but I just want to
clarify that because there is acontext depending on what your
value is and how you can datethat same way without having sex
, and we're not always talkingabout having sex here.
You know the desire and thedesires we talk about is to have
a relationship, be in relationwith somebody that's not at the

(39:30):
bottom line isn't always to havesex with them, right, like.
So let's just be clear, clearabout that.
We do talk about sex a lot, andsex is an important part of
relationships in our world, etcetera.
But I just want to clarify that.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, let me.
Let me also clarify anotheraspect of craving.
Craving tends to be very shortterm based.
I'm not really worried how I'mgoing to feel tomorrow.
I'm not really worried how thisperson is going to feel
tomorrow.
I'm just interested in thepleasure of the moment or
getting whatever needs satisfied, my ego satisfied, whatever it
is that tends to be craving.
When something is not craving,it's because we see ourselves

(40:08):
moving into a happier, morewell-adjusted, more
well-balanced life.
Now, what that means in areligious context not in a
religious context that's foreach person to sort out
individually for themselves.
But the honesty that I wastrying to talk about with
yourself is you have to askyourself is this a short-term
just hit of something enjoyable?
Or are these steps along thepath moving to where it is that

(40:32):
I want to go, where I'm inalignment with myself?

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Right, yeah, I think your definition of craving
clears that up, because it'skind of like a craving when
you're maybe eating something ordoing something, like it's an
you're not thinking through, youhaven't done what we're
subscribing to, which is takethe time, understand where
you're at, what it is that youwant, why you're, why you're
doing that, right and and and.

(40:58):
Then be honest with that.
A craving is just your bam,you're just.
You know you're following youremotions and and and your
whatever, just yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Yeah, and I, I would say when it comes to never
advisable, right, yeah, yeah.
Well, cravings don't take youanywhere intentional, and when
you, when you move haphazardlythrough life, you don't end up
by accident where you want to be.
It usually takes a lot moreintentionality to get there.

(41:27):
I want to bring it back to thequestion of analyzing your
preferences that you have.
You want to be honest withyourself about what the
preferences are, and then youwant to examine them and ask
them are these preferences thatare serving me?
Are these preferences that areleading me to a life that I'm
really going to be fulfilled andenjoying?

(41:47):
This episode is largely aboutage preferences.
Well, you have to ask yourselfagain if I'm a divorced man in
my early middle age, or whereveryou are, and I'm dating a woman
that is really closer to mykid's age than to my own age,
you have to ask yourself how isthat going to play out later in
life?
And if it plays out in a waythat somehow makes sense for you

(42:10):
and you see it being happy,fine.
The important thing is that youask that question and you look
at your preferences and askyourself are these life-giving,
nurturing, healthy preferences,or are these preferences more
short-sighted and instantgratification and pleasure-based
?
That's the dividing principlethat I use when we're doing this

(42:34):
type of analysis work.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
So when you are working with clients, is there a
process?
Because we talked a few weeksago about the materialist and
they have a whole scene wherethey just show both sides saying
, well, this is what I wanted.
Some of them are some of thosestereotypes, some of them are
just kind of ridiculous and atone point she's like you're not
a catch and then she catchesherself and is like because

(42:58):
you're not a fish, she's tryingto cover herself, but she's just
being honest about that.
So when you're working withclients, what so?
How do you?
How do you do that?
And the second part of this andI don't know, maybe you don't
want to answer is when they'rebeing completely unrealistic,
how do you bring them back to?
You know, back to?

Speaker 2 (43:18):
reality?
The answer to both of thosequestions is actually the same.
It's a matter of shifting froma mental process what they think
they want into an emotionalprocess where they listen to
what they want.
Okay, what does that mean?
So most of the men that I workwith have a firm picture in

(43:40):
their mind of what they want andthey're convinced of it.
They have strong thoughtsaround it and then, at the same
time, simultaneously, they'reexperiencing emotions that they
don't like of powerlessness,frustration, loneliness, a whole
gamut of emotions.

(44:03):
And the interesting thing is andit takes time for us to shift
out of the conviction of themind into listening to the heart
and when the guys get morerelaxed and they start sharing
their feelings, what they'reactually after for the most part
is a feeling that they want tohave when they're with a woman.
And suddenly, when they'rehonest with themselves about
that the strong preferences ofage and body type and what she

(44:25):
does for a living and all ofthat they just start to loosen
up a whole lot automaticallywhen they start to imagine how
they actually feel.
And then, when the clientsactually start meeting women and
they start experiencing thoseemotions, they realize oh, you
know, these preferences that Ihad in my mind.
They were a certain guidingprinciple, but really, when it

(44:48):
comes down to the experience ofmeeting somebody, there's an
emotional side and the heartspeaks differently than the head
does.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Okay, so I'm going to put you on the spot a little
bit here, because that soundsgreat, right, exactly what I
desire.
I think any guy that I'vetalked to that's honest desires.
How do you then reconcile thatwhen you're a dad and you're
dating and there are all kindsof other real specific things

(45:21):
that you've like you've you'vegot to hit, somebody's got to be
available in order to get tothat point, yeah, that might
mean that they can't have kidsbecause they're not available or
or they've got to or or theygot to be.
You know, whatever right likethere's got to be some real
specific things that have tohappen in order for you to

(45:42):
actually have a relationshipthat you, that just might not
happen.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
Right.
Well, I mean there's certainlogistical things like how much
a woman is is available, and Irun into this a lot with clients
.
They talk about particularlysingle moms, how unavailable
they are a lot of the time, howthey there's just not a lot of
time for them to spend withclients.
They talk about particularlysingle moms how unavailable they
are a lot of the time, howthere's just not a lot of time
for them to spend with them.
Well, that's part of theexperience and the package
you're having with them.
If you're not satisfied, ifyou're not getting enough

(46:10):
connection, then you have to behonest and saying the preference
of a woman that has children100% of the time in my
experience isn't really going towork.
There's nothing wrong withstating that preference and
really I think what you'rehinting at actually is the right
place to get to is when yourpreferences are in alignment

(46:33):
with the feeling that you wantto have.
What I was alluding to beforewas certain guys have certain
preferences that are, again,kind of craving based and
they're not.
They're not listening to theexperience that's going to
happen.
Are they going to feelfulfilled when they're the rest
of the time and they're not inbed with this woman, how
fulfilled are they?
And and the way that you dothat is listening to the

(46:55):
emotions, so that the realdesires, the deeper desires, can
come out.
That's what is buried in thoseemotions are the deeper desires
that guys really want and havenever really had.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
Yeah.
So, dallas, for me it seemslike it's got to be a little bit
of both.
Right, because you could havethat terrific connection with
somebody, but logistically it'sjust not going to happen.
And I actually just had thatexperience recently where I went
out, somebody had a greatconnection, but really the

(47:27):
design of our lives and I had tosay, look, this is long-term,
this is just not going to workout, because logistically
there's not going to be as muchof a cool connection we had and
I enjoyed conversation andeverything else.
It's just not going to happen.
So I feel like we need to berealistic about that and it's a

(47:51):
hard, hard balance, I would sayfor dads.
I know that.
It's been my experience.
It's been really hard and tosome extent I've had to just
rule out not completely rule out, but just change my, my
preferences, right, because whatI might prefer it's just it's
just not going to happen.
As much as I'd like to havethat connection with that, that

(48:13):
that perfect, ideal situationthat I want, it's just not going
to happen because ofcircumstances.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
Yeah, that's entirely true.
Practical life comes into placeand yeah, and unfortunately,
some of the statements are we'rein different places in our
lives, we're looking fordifferent things, even though
you have that amazing connectwith somebody.
Yeah, that is very unfortunatewhen it happens, and it happens
all the time.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yeah, yeah, well, and and and.
So when I?
What I would like to encouragethe listeners is everything that
you're saying, I, I, I, ahundred percent agree, right,
what you're the feeling, thatyou want to have the connection,
all of that, but don't discountthe practicality and don't,

(49:00):
don't, don't just stop at whatthat feeling is, because you
could, like I've and and I'vedone this and I've wasted a lot
of time doing this, in having aconnection, doing it, but then
just finding out that, well, thecircumstances are not going to
allow us to really move pastthis great feeling we have and
I'm sorry, guys, just love doesnot conquer all.

(49:22):
It's a terrible, terriblesaying it doesn't work.
There's stuff that you have tothink about, there's
practicalities you have to thinkabout, and now that you are a
single dad and you have kids andthat responsibility, it's a
whole, whole different game.
So think a little bit further,past just the feeling.

(49:45):
It's not bad to have thefeeling, make those connections,
do that, which is one of thegreat things that you do.
Dallas always brings me back tothat and talking about how to
do that.
But I want to make sure that wedon't get ourselves into
situations that are just goingto be heartbreaking and or
unfulfilling because of thegreater picture.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Does that make sense?
Absolutely, and I agree, andlistening to your feelings will
bring to light some of thosepractical necessities that you
need, such as what is heravailability I'm going to throw
in there, because we're talkingabout dating younger women what
is her maturity level?
Is she going to be able tounderstand and support you in

(50:29):
where you are in your life?
Will some young women be ableto do that?
Yes, will most of them be ableto do that?

(50:53):
Probably not.
Probably not.
About what they're looking forand what that picture is.
When we begin to listen to theemotions, what the real
priorities are for them toexperience in a connection with
a woman, those start to surface.
Once those surface, then westart to revise the preferences
and we become more conscious ofwhat the actual preferences that

(51:14):
a man has, that one of theclients has, really are.
Okay, so what you're lookingfor is this type of a connection
.
Well, maybe we should adjustsome of your stated preferences
to align itself better with theexperience that, deep down
emotionally, you have wanted foryour whole damn life and never
gotten Right.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
That's sort of the full process that we go through
in the analysis, and I hope thatdoes resonate with what you're
talking about, and we'reattracted to that right, just as

(51:57):
a male species.
But when we're doing theprocess that you just described,
which is your feelings about,what is that connection that you
have with them?
Is this going to be fulfillingthe time?
Okay, maybe they have the timeto accept the connection, right,
what you're going to be talkingabout Seinfeld reruns and she's
going to be talking aboutTikTok, right?

(52:17):
Like you know, that's going tobe difficult and challenging,
and so you refine that up to youknow, to a while you're you're,
you're sacrificing one to someextent, you're gaining another
right and so, again, tuning intothose feelings, like you you
described, can help tounderstand those practicalities

(52:41):
of what your life is and how youcan fit in Fit in is not the
best word how you can attractwhat it is that you want that's
going to work perfectly in yoursituation.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (52:57):
It does.
Yeah, and I think when we talkabout sort of a sexual
marketplace and what you'rebringing to the table, when we
listen to the deeper desiresthat we have and the experience
that we want to have, we tend toalign ourselves into the sexual
marketplace in a more accurateplace.

(53:17):
We tend to attract the peoplethat are going to give us what
we're looking for, because we'renow situating ourselves where
we actually are in thatmarketplace.
But it's an introspectiveprocess to get there and it can
be kind of disappointing.
It's like I can't haveeverything in all the different
ways all at once in your life.

(53:38):
That's true.
However, when you allowyourself to follow the alignment
of what's actually giving youthe most life-giving connection
with a woman that you can, you'dbe amazed how quickly you start
to let go of some of theseother things and go yeah, I mean
it'd be nice if she was 22, butshe's not.
Yeah, I mean it'd be nice ifshe was 22, but she's not.

(54:01):
But that is replaced with atype of connection, chemistry,
sensuality, intimacy, thatreally you're in it when you're
experiencing it and you give upthe I don't know, sort of the
pouty preference, the poutinessaround the preferences that you
don't get to have anymore Rightso?

Speaker 1 (54:25):
you brought something up that I find interesting,
which is placing yourself onthat spectrum in the marketplace
.
I feel like oftentimes dadsdevalue themselves in in in the
marketplace quite a bit and andI think that happens because of

(54:46):
the experience and what they'vegone through, etc.
And and I say that because thenI I've been doing this work
long enough to to know guys thenafter a while, post-divorce,
back in the dating scene thentheir mindset shifts and they
change that mindset and theystart to see and feel the value

(55:08):
that they have in that.
I think that's another pointI'd like to make with the guys
too.
Where you're at now thinkingabout this probably is going to
change in six months and then ina year or two years, about what
, what's your, what's your valueis in this, in this marketplace
.
And so just be, have some gracewith yourself, find somebody

(55:33):
like Dallas and do the work,because, man Dallas, you could
have like you, dallas, you couldhave taken years of my dating
life, if you will, and helpingme too, right, because here's
the thing you either.
Find somebody like Dallas thatcan help you sort through all
this, because, okay, we talkedfor an hour here and I don't

(55:55):
know that we didn't give you alinear path, like give you like
a linear path to like how to dothat.
There's so much that goes intoit and there's so many variables
that go into it.
And so finding somebody likeDallas and Dallas hasn't paid me
to do this promotion is becauseit helps you to sort through

(56:15):
this stuff and look at thisstuff and then refine this stuff
.
It's kind of like you know youcan, you can change your own
breaks, but is it going to?
Is it going to take you three,four hours to do and figure out
or your oil change or whatever,or is it going to?
Can you take it to Jiffy Lubeor the break place or whatever
and get it done in an hour?
You pay more, like it justmakes sense to to have somebody

(56:36):
to coach you through this stuff,and then it's going to take the
years.
Like I said, you would havetaken years off my dating life
had I talked to you early on.
We try not to get into personalanecdotes here, but I do
probably more than you do, but Idid date the really young like

(56:59):
right out of the bat first, likefirst off the bat, craving
right, like that's.
You know, stupid.
Like I look back at it now youknow, and I look back on what I
thought my, my market value was,it's completely different now.
So so find somebody like dallas, or find dallas, just all of
you call Dallas tomorrow and getsigned up at blackboxdatingcom

(57:23):
and just work through that andunderstand that, because it's
just going to make things somuch smoother, so much easier,
so much more fulfilling, so muchmore loving.
There's so much that positivethat can come out of it.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
it Dude, thank you.
I really appreciate your voteof confidence and for telling
the guys that there is a faster,easier way to get through this.
I really do, and that is reallywhat it comes down to.
It's taking larger strides andmoving quicker across the game
board to where it is that youwant to be.
I want to also echo what yousaid here about the fact that

(58:00):
divorced dads struggle withconfidence and probably see
themselves as having lower valuein the sexual marketplace.
It's not true.
It depends a little bit on theage range that you're in, but I
would say probably if you'reover the age of 40, I don't
believe that having kids initself is going to.

(58:20):
It lowers your value at all inthe sexual marketplace.
Now there's a subtle difference.
It doesn't lower your mark,your your value If you are
making it clear that yourchildren and your
responsibilities as a father arenot going to be put on the
woman that you are dating, ifyou can show that you are, you
have all of this in place andthat you are protecting her from

(58:41):
it and that she's not going tobe involved with it at all until
both of you feel that it'sappropriate, as long as you're
doing that and you have timeavailable for dating.
In a lot of ways, single dadsbring a certain level of
maturity, a certain level ofaccomplishment that a guy like
me, who doesn't have children,does not bring to the table.

(59:02):
I'm in my 40s.
Women scratch their head andare like so why don't you have
kids?
So why have you never beenmarried?
And I have a whole other?
It's like are you just aplayboy?
Are you just messing around,like you must not be that
serious.
Plenty of single moms have justsaid no because they assume I

(59:23):
can't understand, I don't havethe emotional maturity, I don't
get it to be able to date them.
I can't understand their lives.
I've been disqualifiedsometimes from women that I
really wanted to be involvedwith.
If it's presented in a way thatthe woman is protected from the
responsibilities of yourchildren and your divorce, if
it's presented in a way that thewoman is protected from the
responsibilities of yourchildren and your divorce, if
it's presented that way, being asingle divorced dad can

(59:45):
actually be a huge asset in themarketplace, sexually, yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
And when we say a lot of ways it's a sign of maturity
.
Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely.
And I, I a hundred percentagree with that and I would say
any age, not even just 40 orabove, like, if you are
responsible, great dad, that is.
That is a huge, huge attractionfor women.
And when and I wanted to Iwanted to just clarify that the

(01:00:10):
protect thing, that that thatmeans that you have your stuff
in order, that she's not goingto have to deal with and come in
and fix and clean or have likeall this strife around that
you've got it in order, you'vegot it figured out, you know how
to communicate, you know how toco-parent, you're good, like
all that stuff that you knowyou're not putting on to her.

(01:00:33):
So that's, I think.
And just to reciprocate.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Gentlemen, listen to the show.
If you do not have your housein order, if you don't have your
divorce figured out I'm notgoing to articulate this well
because I've never gone throughit but if, if your life still
feels like a mess, jude is theman you need to talk to.
If you don't feel like you'vequite found the identity, if you
feel like there are stillpieces kind of scattered all

(01:00:57):
over the floor again, I don'tknow what the words are here.
Jude's got the words.
Jude is the man you want to talkto to take the post-divorce
life Well, I guess it's pre,during and post, but the threat
of divorce and the actuality ofdivorce.
He's the guy that knows how totake Humpty, Dumpty that fell
off the wall, put him backtogether and make it so that you

(01:01:21):
have an attractive life thatyou're presenting to women, to
your children, to yourself andto the world.
Again, Jude's the guy thatknows how to do that.
Because, Jude, I mean the storyyou've told me about what
you've gone through.
I mean it is some of theroughest stuff that I can
imagine, and you've been doingthis now for years with other
men and you, I mean this is whatyou do.
You help guys put the life backtogether the way they need it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Yeah, amen, and I appreciate that now that we've
done our mutual plugs for eachother.
But you're exactly right there.
I feel like we're both tryingto.
To emphasize to those listeningis that there you can have a
great life post-divorce datingwith your kids, like it can be

(01:02:07):
absolutely tremendous.
And by getting involved,getting help, doing the work
really that's the big thingdoing the work that you need to
do in in order to, to realizethat.
I tell you, I tell you I never,I never, ever ever, could have
imagined the beauty in my lifeand the experience and the

(01:02:30):
richness in my life that I havenow, particularly when I was
going through my divorce.
So it does happen, it canhappen, and so you know, just
some, some more encouragementfrom from us guys.
Dallas, this was good man, ourtime flies every time.
There's like five more things Iwant to talk about with this,
but tune in next week becausewe'll, we'll, we'll be here

(01:02:53):
talking about you know, whoknows?
I don't know, we'll figure itout, we'll see.
And before then all you guyslistening that are going to get
ahold of Dallas.
How do they do it?

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Go to blackboxdatingcom.
Go ahead and schedule a 20minute call.
We can talk about yoursituation and see whether or not
my coaching program is a goodfit for you.
Blackboxdatingcom.
Jude same to you.
How can guys get in touch withyou between this week and next
week?

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
Yep, the divorcedadvocatecom, all of your
resources, wherever you're atin your divorce.
So, dallas, thanks so much.
Always a pleasure.
We'll chat next week.
Thanks, jude, talk to you nextweek.
Bye.