20 - Kids or No Kids: Who Should You Date After Divorce?

Dating after divorce can feel like rebuilding a house on old foundations—and that’s exactly why we argue for a full scrape and rebuild. We get real about the question every single dad faces on the apps: her kids, my kids, or no kids? Instead of chasing a replacement for your ex, we lay out a simple, practical framework for designing the next chapter with intention—starting with clear values, vivid invitations, and slow, steady timelines that protect your kids and your peace.

We walk through the real tradeoffs of dating women with kids and without. You’ll learn why availability is a signal, not a scolding point; how to present your life with concrete pictures rather than vague claims; and how to replace interrogations with a well-mixed “cocktail” of substance and play. We dig into short-term skill building—leading with specific invites, reading the feedback in her response, keeping free agency—and pair it with long-term judgment about blended family dynamics. If she’s the right fit, she’ll step toward you. If she can’t or won’t, that’s your answer without a fight.

Across the hour we swap “goal line” thinking for a story-first approach. Think touchdowns in the moment: a three-hour conversation that flies, a shared hike that sparks chemistry, a thoughtful follow-up that lands. Those small wins add up to a resilient connection. We also raise the sobering question every dad must answer: do you want this person influencing your children? Slow introductions over seasons reveal character that can’t be faked in a month. And when in doubt, don’t fix her life—protect yours.

If this helped, tap follow, share with a dad who needs it, and leave a quick review. Want deeper support? Check out TheDivorceDadvocate.com for recovery coaching and BlackBoxDating.com for men’s dating mastery. Your next chapter starts with a better invitation.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_02 (00:19):
If you're asking her how is this going to work,
that's going to frustrate her tono end because you're putting
the burden and responsibility onher to figure it out.
Brad Pitt walks into the room,you know, and invites her into
some amazing experience.
When you show up as a man withthe right dynamic qualities,
when you show up as a man withthe right invitations to have

(00:42):
experiences with you, guesswhat?
She's going to get her acttogether to make herself
available.
She just will.

SPEAKER_00 (00:49):
Hello and welcome to Dad's Dating After Divorce, the
only podcast, and literally theonly podcast, because I Googled
it this week for dad'saddressing dad's dating after
divorce and the fun and excitingworld that surrounds that.
My name is Jude Sandoval.
I am the founder of the DivorceDadvocate, and my co-host, as

(01:09):
always, is Dallas Bluth, thefounder of Black Box Dating.
How are you doing, Dallas?

SPEAKER_02 (01:15):
Really happy this morning.
Now that I know we areofficially the only podcast
dedicated to dads dating afterdivorce.
And I'm doubly happy that youuse Google rather than AI to
pull out the information.
That makes me feel like I'm notthe only school, only old school
person out there.

SPEAKER_00 (01:31):
Okay, well, actually, we are both old.
Let's just say let's just admitto that to start.
We're both old guys, but Iactually was using okay.
So this is uh we're gonna okay,bear with us, audience.
We're just gonna digress herefor a moment.
I was using Google AI to likecome up with podcast episode

(01:52):
ideas and whatnot, and I putsomething about dads dating
after divorce as like a generalyou know, general, and it came
up with our podcasts and saidour this is the like pre-eminent
podcast for exactly what you'relooking for.
Here's a a list of titles thatmight address stuff that you're
looking for.
It had it totally misunderstandmy I mean misunderstood my

(02:14):
question, but it found us andour episodes and everything for
that.
So that's why, as far as I'mconcerned, we are the only in
pre-eminent, pre-eminent podcastfor dad's dating after divorce.

SPEAKER_02 (02:28):
It sells like it sounds like intelligence to me
if it sees us as the pre-eminentpodcast for dad's dating.
It sounds like it knows whatit's talking about.

SPEAKER_00 (02:37):
I'll take it.
For share.
Okay, thanks for bearing with uswhile we tutored our own horns
and feel good about ourselves.
Now we're gonna get into someinteresting content.
The working title is Her Kids,My Kids, No Kids.
And what we're gonna be talkingabout is who to date?

(02:59):
Do we look for women with kids?
Do we look for a woman withoutkids?
When you get on the dating apps,there's always that one line
that says no kids, or has kidspart-time, has kids part-time,
not at home, or kids not athome, or kids like there's like

(03:20):
four, five, six, seven,depending on the site, different
variations of that.
And so it is obviously a bigdeal, right, Dallas, that's
we're dating with kids now, orwe're dating with kids, and
we're looking for potentialpartners that also have kids,
which is a much differentdynamic than maybe when we

(03:43):
started dating, and it was just,hey, let's hang out, and you
hung out for a long time, andthen you kind of whatever, just
got a dog and have fun with thedog for a while.
And that's very, very differentbecause my dog now is a lot less
work than my three daughtersare.

(04:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (04:06):
Yeah, there are so many different angles that we
could take this from.
You know, what's your availabledating pool?
What are the logistics of comingtogether?
You know, how attractive are youor not to to a woman with or
without kids?
And uh, yeah, there's so manydirections to go.
And where are we going to startthis morning?

SPEAKER_00 (04:23):
Okay.
So I want to start with talkingabout what you want.
Like, I feel like we as dadshave really got, and and I
struggled with this in thebeginning, and that's why my
dating life was all over theplace.
You I feel like it would haveserved me much much better.

(04:44):
And and and when I'm talkingwith dads now, and we're
talking, and I'm coaching dadspost-divorce, in it would have
served me, and I I've found thatit it serves the dads that I
work with much better if they'veif they've worked through and
created the vision for what itis that they want their
post-divorce life to look like,which takes a little bit of time

(05:09):
and it takes a lot of work totry to sort that out.
Now, that doesn't mean that likeanytime we're creating a vision,
anytime we're thinking orsetting a goal for where we want
to go, doesn't always mean thatwe're it's gonna be a linear
right to that, and and we'regonna get it.
You might need to makeadjustments on that.
But I feel like working throughthat is pretty important to to

(05:32):
start out.
So that's where I think, and andI think you'll probably agree.
And we've talked in the andwe've talked on many episodes
about really getting your yourmind straight, getting your head
straight, figuring out yourstuff, knowing what your values
are, like all of that stuff.
And this is one really big onethat I think that dads need to

(05:54):
really, really think through andfocus on because there's so many
potential pitfalls.
And and I'm gonna dive intothose a little bit too, because
if you if you get with the wrongperson, well, in general, if if
you get with the wrong person,it makes life a nightmare.
If you do that and you havekids, it can really cause lots

(06:15):
of big problems.
And I say that a little bit toscare guys or to to pay
attention, but also just to tomake sure to get them to focus
on this.
So let's start there as to howdo you work through thinking
about, okay, do I want somebodywith to date somebody with kids?

(06:36):
Do I want somebody that's not?

SPEAKER_02 (06:40):
So yeah, I mean, I I I feel like you're probably more
qualified to answer thisquestion than I am, so I'm gonna
keep my response brief.
I think first of all, I think,you know, I've got kids on my
end, you know, as a single dad.
I I ask myself, you know, if theother, if the the person, the
woman that I'm dating also haskids, that's just gonna make it
more complicated.
The schedules are going to be alot more, a lot more limited.

(07:03):
We need to have the alignment.
Is the time that I don't have mykids aligned with the time that
she doesn't have her kids?
Where if I'm dating a woman thatdoesn't have kids, you know,
that's not a factor.
I I think I think you've got tolook at it like that.
And then so there's sort of theshort-term dating period where
there's the courtship, gettingto know each other before you
get committed, you know,obviously before you bring the

(07:25):
woman into your life with yourchildren.
But then you also have to lookat the long-term vision.
Okay, is, you know, is this, doI want someone that doesn't have
kids coming into the familylife, or do I want someone
that's going to have potentiallya blended family or at least a
blended, you know, shared lifesometimes, you know, where our
kids are coming together.

(07:46):
I think I think there's a sortof a short-term perspective and
a long-term perspective.
And I think it's okay,particularly if you're just
getting back out on the datingscene, to realize maybe I'm only
looking at the short term forthe moment.
You know, I was in a marriagethat was sexless for eight
years, and I I'm not ready totie myself down yet because I I

(08:06):
need to recalibrate inside ofmyself.
I think it's okay to maybe worryless about the long term, at
least for a minute, until youget your feet wet and you know
what you're looking for.
But it the interesting thing iswomen with kids and without
kids, it's you know, the shortterm has certain challenges, and
then the long term has differentchallenges.
But again, I I I'm not I'm I'mpreaching to the choir from from

(08:29):
somebody that doesn't know howto preach because I don't have
kids.
I want to hear what you have tosay.

SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
Well, you're you're sp you're spot on, and that's
what I was going to touch onfirst, is really understanding
where you're at.
So I think you would agree thatdating is a s is is somewhat of
a skill set that is learned,right?
And lots of us, at least I lotsof us have never learned that

(08:56):
skill.
And and now that the stakes areare really high, it's almost
like getting into somethingagain without that skill could
like I said, could be very itcould be very difficult.
And it could be very not onlydangerous, dangerous because
you've got kids and all thisstuff that goes into it, but it
can be very heartbreaking.

(09:17):
I remember my my first break,and I hear this all the time
from from guys dating afterafter they get a divorce, is
that that first that breakupafter the after the divorce,
after that first relationshipafter is is more heartbreaking
than even the divorce.
And that oftentimes happensbecause we haven't done the

(09:40):
work, right?
Like we've been talking about inother episodes of really getting
to understand yourself, whatyour values are, et cetera.
And you kind of get in the samedynamic, right?
And that's the heartbreakingthing, is because like you you
haven't figured it out, right?
You haven't figured out, oh,okay, this, and so it's makes it
even more heartbreaking.
Learning that, but then when youget into dating again, is take

(10:05):
that time, like you like yousaid, in the short term to start
to build those skills.
Don't jump in lots of times, andand look, I was guilty of this,
right?
It's like, oh, I just want toreplace this.
I wanted to be married, I likedbeing married, I have a family
now, I want another family now.
Let me plug, let me you know,plug and play, right?

(10:26):
That one left, okay.
I'm gonna plug in a new one.
That is a recipe for disasterbecause you're going to you're
going to really perpetuate whatwas probably an unhealthy
relational dynamic with thatthat next person.
So get with a dating coach likeDallas and learn the skills that

(10:51):
will help you in the short run.
So, in the short run, that lookslike just dating, right?
You're not thinking aboutblending families, you're not
thinking about how the kids aregonna get along together, you're
not gonna have to be that mastercommunicator, and and
potentially if she doesn't havekids, then somebody that's gonna
really help her along andlearning how to interact with

(11:13):
kids.
You don't have to worry aboutany of that yet.
That's the the short-term goalis learning how to get out there
and and date.
What do you feel?
How do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_02 (11:22):
I I think that's I think that's totally true.
I think you do need to get thedating skill down before you get
too far into the relationshipside.
I want to I want to echo backthe one word that you said that
I think I should really, reallyhave a lot of self-reflection
on, and that's the word replace.
You mentioned that coming out ofa relationship, you you were

(11:43):
looking to replace what you hadwith somebody else.
You were looking for the plugand play that could fill, we're
gonna say, a hole that was leftby the marriage.
No woman wants to be anotherwoman in your life.
And if she, you know, and ifyou're coming to it, and again,
not that anybody's consciouslythinking, oh, I just want to

(12:04):
find something to replace mylast one, but we have to be
honest with ourselves.
How much are you looking tosimply fill the void that has
been created and that is verylarge in yourself, versus how
much are you looking forsomething new with a woman?
Because if you're looking at itsaying, I don't know who this
woman is, I, you know, I'm I'm Idon't know what exactly this

(12:27):
dynamic is going to feel like.
I know that that the themarriage that I had didn't work,
didn't fail.
I'm still figuring out thereasons for that.
And I'm not looking to replaceit right away with someone else.
I'm looking for someone else todo it differently with.
When you're coming to the tablewith that kind of a mentality as
a man, a few things happen.

(12:48):
One is that woman is going tofeel respected because she's
going to be seen as unique anddifferent.
Two, you're going to slow waydown as a man because you're
going to say, I don't exactlyknow how this is going to go.
And and that will prevent youtrying to just plug and play and
fill an emotional need.
And yeah, need is attached toneediness, and that doesn't make

(13:09):
you more attractive.
The last thing also with withreplacing a woman is you're
coming to it with, I think, toomuch of a vision of what you
think you want.
Guys, we have to co-create thiswith whoever this person is,
whoever this woman that we'regetting involved with.
If she's a replacement foranother part, I mean, that's

(13:30):
like going to the auto store,taking, you know, taking the oil
filter and putting it in wherethe other oil filter was.
That's not how she's not goingto feel like a woman, like a
person, like somebody who'svalued.
She's not going to feel like shehas a voice.
And if you really want a dynamicrelationship with truly hot
chemistry, mentally,emotionally, physically,

(13:52):
sexually, you know, you know, inyour dreams of the future, if
you want all that chemistrythere, she can't be just a
replaceable component of yourlife.
You have to realize this is anew machine that she's going,
that she and you are going toform together.

SPEAKER_00 (14:07):
Yeah, no, I love that.
And I love you, you're uh you'realways so great at you know
bringing it to the to therelational part, which I think
with as guys, just sometimesit's so so hard.
We're and and particularly as asdads, like we we've been driven
to driven by family and forfamily, and have created this

(14:29):
environment and have and thenand then it all breaks down.
And we and we literally likeit's like a rehab project,
right?
We just we just want to rehabit, right?
We don't want to start over, wedon't want to scrape the, you
know, we don't want to scrapethe building and and start all
over again.
But but really part of that isyou you kind of gotta do that.
It's more it's more of like ascrape and rebuild and and maybe

(14:52):
repurpose some of the parts intoit rather than a remodel
project, right?
Because it's not like what yousaid, it's it's not the same
person that you're you're gonnaput in there.
Hopefully, and because if hedoes, it's gonna, it's gonna
it's gonna fail again.
And that's why that's why thesecond marriages, the the

(15:12):
divorce rate is even higher, andthird marriages, divorce rate is
even higher than that.
Because we as guides, that'skind of what we do.
We want to we want to re we wantto rehab it, and we shouldn't
be.
We need to just stop and doexactly like understand from
that other perspective thatokay, well, this is a different

(15:32):
person.
There's gonna there would thereneeds to be a different dynamic,
so that's good that it is adifferent person, and hopefully
we're gonna look for that personthat is going to fit a healthier
uh relational dynamic, but it'sgonna take different skills that
that that we need to build thatwe didn't have because if we had

(15:53):
them, we wouldn't have beenthrough what we what we went
through, right?
So you you've got to get thoseskills and you gotta figure that
out.

SPEAKER_02 (16:02):
Yeah, and and one of those skills, you know, now that
we're now that we're reallyunpacking this, one of those
skills is what kind of aconversation are you going to
have with a woman that has kidsversus a woman that doesn't have
kids?
Because if you think about thatperspective, so the woman that
doesn't have kids, maybe there'sthree buckets.
The woman who doesn't have kidsand has never been married, and
the woman who was married butnever had kids in the marriage.

(16:24):
Because those are two differentbuckets.
I feel like the, you know,coming out of you're you're
divorced, even if you don't havekids, you're still feeling
different inside than I've neverbeen married.
And I think we need to realizeas men, first of all, you said
it, scrape it.
Don't try to salvage your lastconstruction project and you
know, bring it in and go like,well, we never built the, you

(16:46):
know, we never finished thatwall.
And it went through a couple ofwinters, and the two by fours
were kind of jacked up now.
It's like, dude, scrape it.
Don't try to, don't try to buildsomething on that.
Like, take it back down.
It costs more, you loseresources, it's more work, it's
more time.
But you can build a proper housethat once it's finished, you're
not worried if that wall isgonna fall down on you again.

(17:09):
But in but in order to do that,I think we have to realize that
the conversations we're gonna behaving with a woman that's never
been married and has no kids,the conversation about the
project, the new project thatyou're looking for a, you know,
a partner, you know, in doing isgonna be different with somebody
who's never been married andnever had kids.

(17:29):
And then a woman that has beenmarried but didn't have kids,
first of all, that's aninteresting story.
I'd like to know how all thatplayed out with them.
And then finally, the woman thathas been married, you know, and
has kids, boy, that's a wholenother story because she's got
to unpack essentially what wasthe failed construction project
on her end.
And how does, and you're no,you're gonna spend more time

(17:51):
comparing these two projects.
And, you know, I'm chucklingabout it, one, because I haven't
been through it, you know, Idon't have the same scoring, but
I still feel that we have tobring a certain a certain
lightness in the heart, acertain positivity, which means,
like you've said many times, youhave to have done the work and
you have to be on the path tohealing so that when you're

(18:12):
having these conversations withthat woman, the two of you are
coming from a healthy place andyou're ready to build something
new.
You're not still, well, you'renot still swinging at two by
fours with a sledgehammer tryingto bring the thing back down to
the ground.
Like that's the healing process.
That's letting go of the pastfailed project.
I think we need to have threevery different conversations

(18:35):
depending on who you're dating.
And those are those are gonnatake different, different
listening skills for each group.

SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
Well, so let's let's jump into that a little bit.
How do you have thoseconversations?
And and you need to have theconvert, the history
conversation, I feel.
I think that's important.
And you mentioned whether, okay,you you don't have kids and
you've never been married.
You kind of want to know somebackground and understand and

(19:04):
get to some level ofunderstanding.
You're not gonna completelyunderstand why that may have
been, or you you did have amarriage and it didn't work out,
or or kids, and then what thatdynamic looks looks like.
You you really need to know.
You really want to know becausethat gives you some insight into
the person, but how do we dothat without maybe coming across

(19:27):
sounding like like a DA, right?
Like, here y'all, and and I knowI've been on the other side of
that all the time.
Like I literally sat there forfor the hour first date, and I
just you know, I'm like, oh mygod, like I feel like I've been
just cross-examined for for anhour.
Can I get out of here now?
Like, uh how do we do that?

(19:49):
And like, you know, invitesomebody in to kind of you know
how do we work the DAOs magicinto those those conversations?

SPEAKER_02 (19:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you're you're hitting theyou're hitting the nail on the
head.
So the way you do it is you needto know what what it is that you
do want, because what you wantis positive.
And then you want to positivelyembrace whatever it is that you
want in the relationship.
That's the starting point.
And when I tell them, you know,I really want, I really want my
next cohabitation relationshipwith kids, however that is, I

(20:21):
want it to be, as an example, Iwant it to be playful.
I really want there to be a lotof laughter and joy.
The la, you know, and and that'swhat I want.
That, you know, that to me makesme sing that I love it when I
can be playful with a woman.
I love it when we're playful.
I love being playful with mykids.
I want, you know, whoever I'mwith to eventually lead to them
coming in and being part of it.

(20:42):
And so I'm I'm I'm presentingsomething that is a high
priority and a value to mebecause I enjoy it, because I
like it, and I'm positivelyembracing it.
And and when I'm embracing it,and a woman's like, nah, I, you
know, I that doesn't sound funto me.
Okay, there's the compatibilityor incompatibility sharing
itself.

(21:03):
Once we've presented one, maybetwo things that are very
important, and I would say, youknow, one message, you know, one
sit-down, like one at a time.
We had the checkbox thing.
You deliver one thing that youknow is important, and then, you
know, see how she responds, lether respond to that.
And we're talking from a futurevision of what we want things to

(21:26):
be.
And we're there, there's acertain amount of rapport.
We can see that, oh, yeah, thatsounds great.
I'd love, you know, I've alwayswanted to, you know, me and my
kids, we we kid around all thetime, we horse around.
Like, do you ever make forts inthe living room when you on
movie night?
You know, do you ever, you know,what whatever it is.
Like, do are any of you guysever go out in the backyard and
sleep in tents and, you know,and you you compare pictures of

(21:49):
what that playfulness looks likein a household.
And you see whether or not yourpictures are compatible.
And once you can see that theyare, you've already got some
positive bonding that'shappening between the two of
you.
You know that you're like, wewant to build the same kind of
structure, you know, goingforward.
And now you can talk about pastchallenges that you've had.

(22:12):
You can talk about, you know,one of the things I ran into
that was kind of a challengethat I didn't see coming.
Notice I'm taking responsibilityof I didn't see it coming.
What, you know, was that, youknow, the practicality of you
know, somebody having somebodyhaving to travel a lot for work,
you know, that really took atoll, and we never figured out.

(22:33):
Notice I'm saying we, not her,not my ex, not, you know, I'm
saying we never figured out howto reset so that we could keep
that playfulness.
Or if I'm being totally honest,I never communicated to my ex
how important playfulness was inthe home for me.
And again, I'm just usingplayfulness as an example.

(22:53):
But when we set the value andthe priority first, and then we
provide backstory for it, thebackstory doesn't feel like a
dump truck being being unloadedon somebody.
It makes sense.
It gives its context for andsupporting the vision that we
want.
What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_00 (23:09):
Yeah, no, I think that's that's great.
And what you just what you justsaid doesn't all happen in like
the first 20 minutes of aconversation, right?
Like avoid, avoid that, likethat that DA style questioning
or oversharing of because youmight you and what you might be

(23:29):
getting the D you might be onthe receiving end of that DA
style questioning and and thenyou know start getting into all
of this details.
Like I try to avoid that.
Try to try to try to injectmaybe some humor into it or
deflect some of the questionsbecause really what I found is
you want that to evolve over aperiod of time, over a period of

(23:54):
dates, right?
And I and I think sometimes I II see guys getting into this as
they would they really again,it's the checklist.
Like they want to go through allthis checklist and see, like, oh
yeah, yeah, yeah, she fits.
And I and I think and actuallysee a lot of women too.
And I think women's mentalityaround that is a little bit less
like I want to, I don't want towaste time.
Like, like I don't want to dealwith that.
Men's is more of like achecklist, and women's is like,

(24:17):
like, I just want to deal withthis, and so I'm gonna like, is
it a checklist or whatnot?
But I find that the the best thebest way to do that is over a
series of dates.
So then that makes you have toto number one, not have this
preconceived notion of likewhat's gonna happen on date one,
two, three, four, like this isan evolving process that you're

(24:41):
going through.
And hopefully, if like you talkabout, if you're inviting her
into fun and interesting thingsand you're doing things and
you're relating, then you canfit some of this stuff in.
That's actually where I feelyou're gonna get some of the
most authentic answers.
Because if you're sitting thereDA style, what I feel like I get
a lot of the time, because I'vebeen is like, I don't know, I've

(25:04):
never thought about that.
And it's like, oh my god,seriously?
Like, okay, but if you're likeyou know, you know what I'm
talking about, right?
Then it's like, and then it'sjust you know, it's like she's
not even pleading the fist.
Like you're not, you don't likeyou say you don't have them in
their in their creative feminineplace where they're going to be

(25:26):
open and they're gonna they'regonna want to talk to you and
and open up uh about things.
So yeah, what I don't know.
I mean I think I'm still tryingto figure it out, but that seems
to be better than my my DA stylewhen I just you know want to be
like, okay, can I figure out ifwe're gonna have date number
two?

(25:47):
If you cross off six of ten, youcan have date number two.

SPEAKER_01 (25:51):
You're the winner.

SPEAKER_02 (25:52):
Right, okay.
Okay.
Tournament style.
You've made it to the semifinalround.
Yeah.
Okay.
I think I think the thing weneed to remember is, first of
all, you're not trying todecide, are we going to have
another date?
You're trying to decide as aman, am I going to extend an
invitation to her for anotherdate?

(26:13):
You we need to we need toestablish and maintain free
agency.
Do I am I interested in what I'mlooking at?
Do I feel enough attraction?
Do I want to invite her outagain?
That's my job as a man.
And then when I go to extendthat invitation, I want that
invitation and the man extendingit to be as attractive as
possible.
That's my job.

(26:34):
I don't need to figure out if weare going to have another date.
We aren't anything yet.
We are still very muchindependent free agents from
each other.
So I don't and when and if Istart thinking about trying to
trying to assess, oh, is thisgoing to go somewhere?
There is no this yet.
There is no relationship.

(26:55):
It's do I want to extend aninvitation to her?
Much easier, much clearer, and alot more mystery, a lot more
dynamic.
I'm standing apart from her, youknow, it's like it's like when
you're dancing and you extendfor a minute, and then you come
back in close, and then youextend for a minute, and you
come back in close.
That dancing is way moreinteresting than just being at

(27:17):
exactly the same proximity thewhole time.
The second thing is when you'reon these dates, you want to
realize there's a there's anexperience that you're trying to
provide, and that experience isa bit of a cocktail.
You have a few differentingredients that want to be
there.
One of the elements in that isthe authenticity, the

(27:37):
seriousness, what it is that I'mlooking for, what's important to
me.
That's definitely one of theelements.
If that is the main element ormost of what the experiences,
yeah, it's gonna feel likeyou're talking to a DA because
they're down to business andthey've got they've got a
priority that they're workingout.
I don't think any woman, orreally any man, wants to create

(28:00):
a situation where we got to getto the bottom of this.
Like that's that's not thedynamic that people want to
have.
We have to realize that, okay,being authentic, saying, well,
this is important, sharing alittle bit of background, that's
one ingredient in the cocktail.
Another ingredient is, you knowwhat, I think we've talked about
this enough.

(28:20):
Let's let's go on this hike.
Let's go, let's talk aboutsomething completely silly.
You know, what was somethingthis week that happened that you
didn't see happening?
And you get in the moment.
You get you get just foolingaround with each other.
You know, if if if one of yourvalues is playfulness, be
playful with her right there inthe moment.
Don't just be serious talkingabout playfulness.

(28:42):
So you gotta you gotta learn tohave a little bit of a cocktail
mix.
And to your point, that's askill that's developed over
time.
We can't expect ourselves to doit perfectly.
And and last thing I'm gonna sayis it's fine, even if she's the
one that's leaning in hard, youknow, cross-examining, you know,
bringing in evidence and tryingto get to the bottom of the

(29:05):
situation.
It's fine for you to say, youknow what, can we can we shift
the topic to something else?
I am fine talking about thesethings, but I wanna I want to
just sort of enjoy some timetogether too.
And and I think it's perfectlyfine to state that.
It's perfectly fine to make thatshift.
And the more consciously we doit in a lot of ways, the more

(29:27):
it, you know, it's going to bevery clear that we're doing it.
And we're just saying, I wouldlike to.
This is my preference, this issomething I'd like to
experience.
And then see what she does.
It can she let go of it for aminute.
If she can't let go of it, maybeshe's just still angry and
hasn't processed her stuff.
If she does let go of it, she'slike, oh, thanks.
Yeah, sometimes I get ruminatingon this and I I forget and

(29:49):
everything.
And then you go off and have agreat time.
Suddenly I want to invite her onanother date.

SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
Yeah, no, that's a that's a really, really great
point, right?
We're always looking, and youalways say this, we're always
looking for the feedback, right?
Inviting and then looking forthe feedback.
Can she let that go?
Can she roll with it?
Can she can she follow my lead,right?
Can and and feel comfortable inin that to to whatever extent

(30:15):
you're leading at that momentwithin the context of where
you're at data.
right that and hopefully maybethat evolves over time and and
and deepens and then with withtrust etc then that that becomes
what something that she can doeven more and you step up with
that so let's talk then let'stalk a little bit more now about

(30:36):
this the specific things to lookat within each of those contexts
of no kids or kids and and within in so let's start with with
no kids because it seemed a lotmore simpler to assess where
she's at and whether that'ssomething that that that is

(30:57):
preferable for you and and andwhy that might be preferable for
you.
The the obvious the obviousthings are that she has more
time and she has lessencumbrances if you will or or
ties.
Encumbrance is I think is areally good word because it's

(31:18):
not it's neutral as far as asI'm concerned that she just has
things that she has to attend tothat are not optional right and
that's so that's an encumbranceto to to me right she's got an
ex so she has to to to tocommunicate to whatever extent
she's communicating with that exso that's part of somebody that

(31:41):
that doesn't have that so shedoesn't have you know she
doesn't but maybe she has anex-husband right so so trying to
know and understand the therelationship with with that I
think is important to have theyremained friends do they remain
in contact what is you know whatis the what how do things

(32:01):
transpire through the throughthe divorce are always good good
information.
So I that is some of the firstthings also the the big one for
me is does she relate to andunderstand that you have kids I

(32:23):
say in and so let's talk about Ibecause I think that's a big one
is how do we how do we how do weprobe around that let's let's
let's say the the the this thesympathy and understanding of
the fact that that you have kidsright I I know I know you're
laughing at my terminology.

SPEAKER_02 (32:44):
No no I'm not laughing at your terminology.
I'm laughing at this slightlyactually in this moment because
I've been on several dates withattractive single moms and they
they came to the summaryjudgment off of one date that I

(33:08):
can't understand or relate totheir lives as a single mom
whatsoever.
And I was like what exactly ledyou to believe that I don't
understand this because wedidn't even talk about it.
And I think I think they I thinkthey assume that you know well
you know Dallas has got hisfinances together he doesn't you
know he doesn't have the typicalnine to five job oh he must be a

(33:30):
Peter Pan he must be you knowjust out there having fun.
And they assume that I don'tunderstand what the severity is
of parenthood.
And I I can tell you actuallyI've talked with several you
know parents and it's likethey're like no you get it.
Like you understand once youhave kids your life is not your
own life.
And I understand if I becomeinvolved with a woman a whole

(33:51):
bunch of my life becomes not myown life anymore.
It's not like I get to just beyou know sort of like the
bachelor that lives with thewoman who happens to have kids
but they're all herresponsibility.
Like I know that's not how thatworks.
I think it's important to notproject and make assumptions on
what the other person does ordoes not understand.

(34:11):
Because that comes from I thinkyou know how we were raised
because I've I've seen very,very irresponsible parents very
absentee parents and I've seensingle people that are a lot
more responsible with kids.
So I think when we're trying toassess where the person is first
of all beware of projecting ontothem too much of what you think

(34:32):
you know about the situationwhen you don't really know them
that much, you might be throwingout a really good thing.
The second thing is again youknow we we communicate in words
but we think in pictures paint apicture for the woman of what
something actually looks like ifyou want to know what's her
level of understanding into thesituation.

(34:55):
You know if you say it's a lotof responsibility being a dad,
she doesn't know what the heckthat means if she doesn't have
kids.
She might, she might not, butshe's going to have a very
different point of view of it ifyou paint a picture of what the
hockey games look like, of whatyou know of what having three
kids that are under the age of10 look like.
You know uh similarly if youhave your kids you know 50% of

(35:19):
the time, paint a picture of,you know, I'm I'm twiddling you
know I get to have a fantasticlifestyle three and a half
nights out of the week you knowand I do whatever I want.
She might be assuming you don'thave time and you say you know
what I've designed my life sothat I get everything I need
done Monday through Thursday andsometimes Wednesday and I get

(35:41):
Friday night, Saturday night,Sunday night to spend on
whatever it is that I want todo.
You know, when we're gettingconcrete and illustrating these
specific things and you and yougive her examples.
So for example like if if ifpart of my lifestyle is you know
I get out of town once a monthat least you know because I've
realized that's really importantfor me as a single man, feeling

(36:05):
alive so that I'm bringing thebest energy I can to my
relationship with my kids iswhen they're not here, I get
out.
I I I go out to the mountainswith my buddies and go camping.
You know, if I'm seeing somebodywe'll take a day trip somewhere
and we'll spend the night.
You know if I'm painting thesedetails in concrete illustrative
terms, that gives the woman anopportunity to situate herself

(36:29):
and respond positively neutrallyor negatively to the life that
I'm living I think that's thebest way to have these
conversations is paint scenariosand see how people respond.
What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 (36:44):
Yeah and I agree with that and and I'll add that
as much as we paint andcommunicate about it I really
don't feel like you're gonnahave a a valid understanding of
where they're coming from untilyou actually get into spending
some time with them and thenseeing how how they behave how

(37:07):
they react and and and and andwhat comes up and that's then
going to be really the theindicator of oh they they might
they they might not reallyunderstand but they're open to
to to learning or opening to beflexible or as opposed to

(37:29):
somebody that might just havelike they just want to travel
and they just want to have thiscarefree lifestyle and while
they're you know they might likesome things about your life that
they're not fully vested in thefact that you are a dad and that
this is while you might havelike you described like I I

(37:50):
there are some women that I'vedated that like like what what
you just described like when Idon't have my daughters I have a
very full life and it's verysocial and I like to travel and
I like to to do stuff and theylike that.
But when it came to the partwith the kids like the hat you
could I could tell immediatelybecause they don't talk they
don't ask you about your kidsthey're not interested in what

(38:14):
your life is like when you'rewith them they're just really
happy with like oh yeah you'refun and exciting we do fun stuff
when we go out of town on theweekends when you don't have
your kids but when you do likethey have no interest so it's
pretty easy to see so what it isthat they want.

SPEAKER_02 (38:31):
Okay so I I know from a woman's point of view
they worry quite a bit aboutfeeling like they're pushing
themselves into someone's life.
And I I mean I'm like when Idate a single woman I'm I'm
aware that she has kids but Idon't want her to feel like I'm
trying to insert myself intothat parenting role in her life.

(38:53):
I think I really you know I I Iguess once once once we've been
dating for quite a while, youknow, but I leave it to her to
share something about thechildren.
And then it's a matter of how doI respond to that share that
she's making you know she talksabout you know the you know
their their child was strugglingwith a teacher at school and

(39:15):
they had these assignments andyou know it has to do with a
learning disability or somethinglike that.
Do I just listen and go, uh-huh,uh-huh and don't really show
much interest in that part ofthat woman's life because the
child is part of the woman'slife or when I listen to that do
I engage with and go like so howdo you you know how how does one
normally go about you knowdealing with learning

(39:36):
disabilities or what's thebackground?
I would say it's it's up to theperson, you know, it's up to the
person to share a certain partof their life because that's the
invitation to go ahead and speakinto this part.
And you know if I don't want youto know about say my
relationship with my troubledsister, you know, I'm I'm gonna
share that when I'm ready.

(39:56):
And then and then how does theperson respond when I do choose
to share that I don't see it asbeing on the other person to
say, well tell me more aboutyour relationship with your
siblings.
And like, you know, I mean youyou can ask that's a fair
question you know you have kidstell me about them you know
general questions but I see itas the person to share the part
of their life that's importantand then see how engaged the

(40:17):
other person is and do theyengage in ways that show genuine
caring or do they engage in waysthat are just kind of getting
you to not talk about itanymore?
And to your point, it that isonly revealed over many
interactions several dates lotsof time together.
I think though I think thoughthat it a lot of people is I

(40:40):
know when I'm dating I don'twant a woman to feel like oh wow
Dallas is trying to act like dadalready you know he's he he's
trying to give me parentingadvice that's the last thing you
want to do you know when datingsomebody that has kids so I
tread lightly you know whenasking about it.
You know if I haven't heard itcome up in a while you know I

(41:00):
will ask so you know how are theyou know how are your kids doing
or I'll follow up on somethingthat was shared.
But I I let the other persontake the lead in what they want
to share and how how deeply whatthey're ready to share in their
life.
And then what's most importantis how do I respond to that.

SPEAKER_00 (41:19):
I think the key word that you said was engagement.
So if they're engaged in aconversation so I I have kind of
a I have a kind of test aroundthis that that I'll that I'll
use and I don't want to say wellit is kind of a test.
It is a test and and and I'lland I'll ask because I have
daughters and they're teenagedaughters so I'll I'll have a

(41:41):
conversation and then I'll askfor their feedback because while
they may not have been a motherthat were a teen a teen girl
right and and maybe they haveteen that maybe they have nieces
that are or nephews and stufflike too so I'll ask like so
what do you so I have this goingon what do you what do you think

(42:02):
about this you were a teen girlat one point or you were a
little girl at one point or oror whatever and then kind of see
what that engagement level isthat you know is it something
that they they genuinely want tohave that conversation and want
to share and and so it's it'sit's twofold right it it helps
me to see if they want to beengaged and and talk about

(42:24):
family stuff and kids stuff andthat but it also gives me some
insight into them and theirbackground and maybe what they
were how they were when theywere young kids and and so it
opens up a conversation totallyaround that but but again and
and I also want to point outwhat you said is like guys this
whole process is slow.

(42:45):
Like it's not and it's not likeI don't I don't everybody
started dating at a differenttime but there was a time in our
lives maybe in our 20s teens 20sor whatever things went real
fast right like we were justlike maybe met somebody and then
we were hanging out and thenlike we're date like next week
we're dating right becausethat's just you you spent

(43:05):
literally maybe that entire weekwith that person on at college
or you saw them like likewhatever it was whatever stories
that doesn't happen anymoreright we've got all work and
kids and this is a likesometimes a painfully slow
process that that you've got tounderstand that it's a and it's
a and it's evolving and it'slike peeling layers of the onion

(43:27):
but but you're peeling it andthen you cry and then you're
gonna go out of the room for awhile until you get back and you
and you're not gonna peelanother layer for another week
or two weeks.
Don't rush it like you saidbecause I have been on the other
end of that where you know whereyou know a woman wanted to give

(43:49):
me her doll collection she'sbeen saving for her entire life
that you know for for the rightman children because she
couldn't have children like waytoo fast.

SPEAKER_02 (44:01):
You know I was like no I don't think so I
immediately asked the questionhow many of them are possessed
by a demon you know this is ahorrible chucky that happened.
Exactly yeah with the pearl anddoll eyes from the 19th century
that just yeah right it's likeoh man oh wow yeah so so the

(44:27):
thing about the thing about uhtaking time is for me that I
that I work that I try to makemy clients aware of because I
feel it's the most effective wayto have successful dating
encounters is it it's a paradox.
On the one hand it's it's slowlyunfolding the onion is peeling

(44:48):
back its layers and making youcry one layer per week you know
to use to use Jude's deepanalogy.
I love it.
Tears of joy and not tears ofsadness right yeah I I think it
I think it it really depends onsimply the perspective that we
bring into it.
It's sort of like fear andexcitement it's just a question

(45:11):
of whether or not you breatheyou know you know it's you know
tears of joy or sadness itreally depends on whether or not
this is acceptance.
Yeah so when you're when you'regoing through that though you
realize like it's not just youknow it's like oh well once
we're committed or now oh wellnow we're sexual with each other
or oh well now we moved intogether.

(45:32):
I I'm not sure which one ofthese markers is you know you're
there you know and we're gettingin a rush to get to but there is
no final marker.
I mean the final marker is youknow the gravestone in the
cemetery.
Like that's the final marker.
There until then there arealways going to be new markers
there's always going to belayers to Jude's crying onion

(45:53):
you know that get peeled backand it's going to be an ongoing
process if you're active andalive and engaged with your
partner in romantic ways.
So the long game is alwayshappening.
You always have to be patientfor the next reveal in the
process.
And at the same timeparadoxically every the the

(46:15):
moment to enjoy is happeningright now.
Being present in the moment am Iam I effectively sharing you
know this moment I had with myteenage daughters and am I am I
sharing it with all of thelaughing at myself endearingness
of I wasn't a teenage daughter Iwasn't a teenage girl in my

(46:35):
life.
I don't know how to approachthis am I bringing to it the joy
of you know the human conditionam I able to laugh at myself by
how absurdly blind I am todealing with life that happens
in the moment and and we have tobring that moment to the table

(46:55):
when we are then saying so canyou tell me how you would read
into this what do you see youwere you know you know you're a
woman you were a you were ateenage girl at one point like
what am I missing?
And you know and I I I see whatyou mean by a test.
I think it's great.
I think we can simply say thatthis is a little bit more of a
maybe a loaded invitation butit's still an invitation.

(47:17):
You're inviting her to speak inyou're asking her to speak in
you want her to and if we changeit to an invitation and then we
see how does she respond to theinvitation does she step into it
and go, well, buddy here's thething you need to know about a
young woman you know and it'slike ah that right there is
mother quality you know she shecan relate she gets it and you

(47:40):
know she waited for theinvitation and then she took it
or she's like I don't know youknow change goes away it's like
well you're not showing a lot ofdepth here you know and but
that's all just like any otherpart of dating you extend
invitations and then you observehow what does she do with that
invitation and all of that againis happening in the moment right

(48:04):
there you are you are juicingout of that out of that dating
encounter out of that momentyou're juicing out of it all of
the all of the the the theenjoyment of you know romantic
interaction that you're going tohave you gotta enjoy it in the
moment to the fullest and youhave to realize that this is

(48:27):
going to unfold and change intonew moments all the way to the
end.
And and as men if we try tocollapse the moment into a
predetermined outcome or apredetermined mile marker and
then we collapse all the milemarkers to well now that we're
married we've hit it you'reactually cheating you're you're

(48:48):
cheating the best parts of thisis never done unfolding and
you're cheating the best partsof right now in this moment me
laughing about not understandingteenage girls is also all the
only thing that really matters.

SPEAKER_00 (49:02):
Yeah you know that you that's beautifully said how
you how you as usual how how youlaid that out and I it think
what came to my mind is thedifferences in how we as guys
think about everything periodlike we'd be thinking a goal you

(49:24):
were talking about mile markerswhat came to my mind was like a
football field and a goal linewe're trying to get to that end
zone we've got 10 yards to and10 yards and 10 yards a woman is
might have it it it's it's adifference between goals and
intention and and intentionsright like the the goal is more

(49:45):
of like a football game and youwant to get to the end zone.
Intentions are are more like howwomen think about things and
it's you want to get somewherebut it's more of a story right
like it's a it's an unfoldingstory to get to those intentions
we're playing on a footballfield they're listening to us

(50:05):
you know they're reading a storyor they're immersed in a story
right we're playing a game andthey're in this and it's like
we're we're we're doing twodifferent things but trying to
like do them at the same timeand that's what came that's what
came up when when when you weretalking about the the unfolding
and for that it's you know don'tdon't make it like I've got to
get to these 10 yards and this10 yards in order to get get to

(50:28):
where I want to get have it bemore of a an unfolding story
that you are writing right thatyou're participating in writing
to get to maybe the intentionthat you that you have at the
end of this at the end of thisthis story.
But it's but it's never going tobe the end like you said the end
is at the end of your life.

(50:49):
So you're writing this storyongoing as you go like you can
have different chapters andmaybe the intentions of one
chapter and the next chapter andthe next chapter will change
over time but they're everevolving.
And if you can if you can andlook man like I'm saying this
because I'm talking to you rightand then as soon as we get off

(51:09):
I'm gonna go right back to mylike my football thinking but
but if you can think like thinklike this I think it helps to
guide those conversations whenwhen you're you when you're
interacting and on dates withwomen absolutely so I'm I'm
gonna say I think I think youranalogy is is really good

(51:30):
touchdown you know touchdownbaby like we scored yeah that
you know it's like if whoeverwins the game or not is a
completely separate experiencethen I just scored a flipping
touchdown.

SPEAKER_02 (51:46):
And I'm you know and that moment of elation is it's
the win.
It's the win that every manwants to feel and that's a win
in the moment.
And you should be looking toscore touchdowns in the moment
every time you're on a dateevery time you're sending a text
message.
I mean I'm not I'm not trying tosay like obviously every single

(52:07):
moment is a touchdown, but youshould be looking to deliver
that experience to yourself andto the woman in an ongoing way
you want to feel like you wonthe moment, you know, because
that's what that touchdown is.
And then you want to feel likethere is a longer game that
we're playing but the game isjust made up of a series of

(52:27):
touchdowns over and over andover again.
And if you just keep you knowlike nailing it and then you
realize that okay well we scoredthe touchdown with this series
of plays and it went that waywell you know we got to kick off
again you know and run the backthey're not gonna be the same
plays it's a whole new gameuntil the next touchdown.

(52:49):
Well that's that that'srealizing that like the drama is
going to play out differentlythe story's gonna play out
differently and just realizethough that your goal is to
deliver a fun exciting gamewhich is the experience for both
of you and part of that is toreach the place where you're
like oh my gosh look at uswinning like we've been here for

(53:11):
three hours completely lost inconversation laughing like crazy
we haven't even you know there'sno DA around you know they've
never walked through the door tothis coffee shop and we are
having you know an amazing timeand obviously you're gonna ask
her out again that is winningbecause that's playing the game
in a way that just gives life tothe to the interaction and when

(53:35):
they you know whether it's asingle woman or a married woman
or you know a divorced womanwhether they have kids or not I
mean this is probably going tosound over oversimplified but
that's not really what matters.
What matters is when and if shejoins your life and when and if
you join her life what is thatgame going to feel like how much

(53:57):
do the two of you feel likeyou're winning and from her
point of view how rich and fullis this romantic story that
you're that you're leading andinviting her into those are the
things to keep in mind becausewhen you get to the end of the
life and you look back thequestion is how rich was the
life that you experienced?

(54:18):
I mean that that's all it reallycomes down to.

SPEAKER_00 (54:21):
Right.
So let's let's talk about thatnow in the context of how what
to look for with a woman thatdoes have kids and the
conversations that help promptand open that and I and I'll
just say I find it Availabilityyeah exactly right on the head

(54:42):
like right off the bat bat themost frustrating thing is that
not necessarily that they're notthey're not available or that
it's limited availabilitybecause that's I obviously I
understand that I've got threekids at some point at one point
I was raising them 100% bymyself.
So if a even if a woman hastheir kids 100% I understand

(55:06):
it's that they haven'tstructured their life to be
dating.
And so that immediately becomeslike well okay I understand but
how are we ever going to have arelationship if you've got like
every other Tuesday on monthsthat end in why like like I how

(55:30):
does this how is that going tohappen and why are you even
trying to do this because likeit's just not going to happen.

SPEAKER_02 (55:38):
So let me ask you this how often has that worked
in opening a woman up and makinghow many times right did you
sense some frustration from meDallas?
Yes yes okay no I'm gonna be I'mgonna be I'm gonna be real with
you dude the reason I said thatis because I'm sorry man but
that's the wrong approach foryou to take as a man.

(56:00):
If you're asking her how is thisgoing to work that's that's
gonna frustrate her to no endbecause you're putting the
burden and responsibility on herto figure it out.
Again Brad Pitt walks into theroom you know and invites her
into some amazing you knowexperience suddenly she finds
her own availability.

(56:21):
Suddenly she will structure herlife in a way that she's
available.
When you show up as a man withthe right dynamic qualities when
you show up as a man with theright invitations to have
experiences with you guess whatshe's gonna get her act together
to make herself available.
She just will but if we ask herwhy don't you have your act

(56:43):
together I wouldn't disagree I'mgonna disagree with you a little
bit on that one.
Okay.
So let me um let me let me painta more realistic picture.
I say Brad Pitt because you knowit's easy to get a picture.
Let's let's say for example thatI had you know you know early in
my life I was an electrician andI built up a business you know
and it went really well and Iwas good and everything and I

(57:04):
sold the business for let's saylike three and a half million or
something.
And then I you know I put itinto stock investments and I
grew that and I've been veryfrugal you know and good my
whole life but I'm I'm in my midyou know my early mid 40s you
know and and I've got I don'tknow maybe eight million dollars
my house is totally paid off youknow I I I have some you know

(57:24):
some some different activitiesthat I do but I'm I don't have a
nine to five you know I've gotlike a nice new Tesla that I'm
driving and I like it.
Oh and by the way you know Iactually have a ski you know
apartment up in Silverton youknow or Silverthorne you know
that I like to go to and youknow my life is really good you
know and I show up and I meetthis woman and you know I'm
really attracted to her we'revibing really well and you know

(57:46):
she's got her kids you know 50%of the time 80% of the time 100%
of the time I don't really knowwhat you can do.
Honestly I just other thanbabysitters I don't know what to
do.
But if I show up and I am thedream boat package for this
woman I'm not Brad Pitt you knowit's not like I'm have
everything but I'm you knowapproaching maybe a
decamillionaire level and mylife is really good and she

(58:09):
looks at this and goes oh mygosh wow this is this this does
not come across me that I don'tget to swipe on this profile
very often on the dating apps.
Wow that woman is going torespond to my invitation my
invitation is just my presencejust my package showing up and

(58:31):
hey you know I was gonna headout to I don't know like you
know there's a there's a there'sa wine festival happening in
Lions Colorado you know do youwant to come up with me you know
for the day and do this andshe's like oh I've got this and
that and then she's like no Idon't want to let this guy slip
away I'm gonna figure it out.
I'm gonna call my sister youknow I'm gonna get her to to

(58:52):
watch the kids I'm gonna get ababysitter for the day I'm going
to start I don't know what youcall it there's probably a term
but sort of carpool you knowdaycare like I'm gonna take
other kids other parents' kidsone day and then they're gonna
take my kids this day so that wehave some availability like
she's gonna start to figure outher stuff but the motivation is
you and the invitations thatyou're extending.

(59:13):
When you show up with the goodsthat woman will jump into hyper
speed mode to figure out whatshe needs to do.
And if she doesn't she doesn'tsee what you're bringing to the
table and all of that all thatMinutia said and I can hear all
of our listeners saying but butbut but what about this but what

(59:35):
about that?
It's all true.
Okay your alternative was whatJude said was to say well you
know you need to have your lifestructured and in order trying
to have that conversation with awoman is not going to work.
She's not going to suddenly gooh I didn't realize I'm yeah I
should be more responsible andyou know what that turns me on
when you say that said no singlemom ever to a man ever she women

(01:00:00):
respond to the proper invitationbring that invitation to the
table and see what she does withit.
And if she and if she doesn'teither recognize it or she
doesn't have the capacity to gether life in order do you really
want her involved in your lifewith your kids?

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:17):
Yeah probably and I think that is the key That you
need to pay attention to.
And what and while I 99% of thetime agree with you, that
invitation, even with Brad Pitt,as Brad Pitt, oftentimes is
going to be that she can'tfigure it out and she can't get
it together.
And there's nothing you can doabout that.

(01:00:39):
Like you can you can only youcan only say as much as you
might want that to work, as muchas you are attracted to her, as
much as there might be a hugepotential, you can only control
your part of the situation, howyou're showing the the life that
you've designed.

(01:01:37):
Now that's a collaborative,that's good, that's gonna be
collaborative, obviously, butbut the thought process is
you're the dads, dads usuallyare the ones that have this have
this set up, right?
We've got the plan ABCD of howwe can do it, etc.
Most of the time, which is thethe the reason for frustration
for dads, for my frustrationoftentimes, is that they they

(01:01:58):
haven't.
And then you know, being the thethe the codependent that I've
been for most of my life, Istart to do that, and that's a
recipe for the disaster, guys.
And and so don't start doingthat.
You again, Dallas is Dallas'struths are put the invites out

(01:02:24):
there, and then the feedback youget is from the reaction that
that you get from from her.
If she's not makingaccommodations to to to to show
up for dates, to spend time withyou, to cultivate the
relationship, whatever you know,that's the beginning, right?
Or if you get further into it,how you blend your families, how
you introduce the kids, like allof that stuff, then that's your

(01:02:45):
answer.
Those are your those thatcontinues to be your answer.
And if you put if you put it outthere and you keep saying, and
then you could and you ask, youdo it a certain amount of times,
and if you get the answer, ifyou get the same reaction a
certain amount, there's youranswer.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:02):
Well, and yeah, 100% true.
And you have to ask yourself,you know, you if you're trying
to fix the woman and help her,it's like that's not going to be
a very competent partner.
If she can't get her lifetogether, joining it with you,
it probably isn't going to bringit together either.
And you have to ask yourself, isthis really who I want to bring

(01:03:22):
into my household, into myfamily?
And I, I mean, I don't havechildren, but I do have this
very strong belief.
My number one priority as asingle dad would be to protect
my children.
One of the things I have toprotect them from is non-adult
potential partners.

(01:03:42):
I need to be sure that I amprotecting them from craziness,
that I'm protecting them from alack of accountability and
responsibility.
I extend the invitation.
I see how she does or does notstep up to the plate of this
man's invitation.
And then I have to ask myself,do I want a woman that steps up
or doesn't step up that way tohave any influence on my

(01:04:05):
children?
I have that responsibility as asingle dad.
Do I want them ever crossing thethreshold to my home and being
exposed to my kids?
And that's a very, very soberingquestion to answer.
And if you're like, well, butshe's really hot, do I want this
woman influencing my children'slife?

(01:04:26):
That's that that I think ismaybe you know one of the most
important questions we have toask when we're trying to figure
out, you know, does she havekids or not?
Is and and again, I feel likethat's independent of whether
she has children or not.
That's that's a separate.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:39):
I was just gonna make that I was just gonna make
that point.
It does it just because she haschildren does not mean that that
answer is yes, because it doesnot necessarily mean that,
right?
And and vice versa.
It just doesn't mean no if shedoesn't have kids or hasn't had
kids or or wants kids or orwhatever, where wherever she's
at.

(01:05:00):
So so yeah, so that you're yourspot on that's gotta be your
first, and that's what I alludedto earlier with the potential
danger, right?
Because then this person isinvolved in your life, this
person is intimately interactingwith with your children, and so
that's that is a huge, hugequestion to ask yourself.

(01:05:21):
Another reason why it takes verylong time to get to that point,
fellas.
And when I say very long time, Imean months and like six, nine,
like really 12 months goingthrough.
I really feel like you need togo through the seasons and spend
this time because number one,because it takes longer to have

(01:05:43):
these conversations, you don'thave as much time and access to
each other, uh and because it isan evolving process, and so
anybody can hide anything for ashort period of time.
So, and and not that anybody'shiding anything consciously or
on purpose, but people's truenature and authenticity will

(01:06:08):
come out over time, and the onlything that that the only thing
that will will will help that isto to slowly let that evolve.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:20):
Slow it down, and it helps a lot to have external
help.
It helps to have a coach.
Dude, you are awesome at helpingmen gain perspective and to
guide them and coach themthrough it.
So I know we're probably comingup on the end of our hour here.
So I'm just gonna plug it righthere and say, dude, tell guys
how they can get coachingservices to further support and

(01:06:42):
assist this process.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:45):
Yeah, so this is this is something where where
wherever guys are at, I thinkeven if they're just
contemplating divorce and whenwe have conversations, they're
always thinking about, well,even if my marriage is is ending
now, I want to do this in aprocess that is beneficial to

(01:07:08):
everybody, including includingmy future ex-wife, but but
mostly my my kids, to whereeventually I can have another
romantic relationship and thenbe a good model of a
relationship for themeventually.
Like almost exclusively, everyguy, every guy that that comes
into our community has thatintention if if if I talk to

(01:07:30):
them and we get into that.
Oftentimes we're not, that's noteven on anybody's radar, but but
that is the big thing that we dowith the divorced advocate
community is we we help getthrough this difficult and
challenging time in a healthyand less traumatic, less
traumatic way, which benefitseverybody on the back end and

(01:07:52):
then gets us to where we arewhen we're talking about stuff
here, Dallas, about about datingafter divorce.
So if guys are interested, visitthedivorcedavocate.com.
There's all kinds of resourcesthere.
Like you said, I do individualcoaching, which I think just
like relationship and datingcoaching, everybody should have
a relationship and dating coachbecause the skills that we're

(01:08:14):
alluding to in the beginning, wedon't learn, right, unless our
parents, which a lot of ourparents didn't teach us.
Same thing with divorce.
You don't you're not gonna gothrough this hopefully more than
one time.
You don't know what you don'tknow going through it, and
there's a lot of pitfalls.
So uh I think every everybodygoing through, I wish I had
somebody coaching me through it,it would have helped me through

(01:08:36):
some of the challenging times.
So visit the divorcedadvocate.com and all the
information you can find isthere.
And in Dallas, when when theyare ready to to jump in and and
and determine her kids, my kids,or no kids, how do they get a
hold of you?

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:53):
Yeah, yeah.
When you're when you're lookingto bring more of those touchdown
wins to every single moment inyour dating life, uh jump on
over to blackboxdating.com.
We've got a men's coachingprogram.
We have weekly office hours, wehave an every other Monday
program that is a level onedating mastery for men that
walks you through setting yourgoals, how do you get there,

(01:09:15):
what are the obstacles,assessments that you do to
figure out where you are in yourown dating life, what do you
need to work on.
And um, and then one of the oneof the fun elements is the uh
the last weekend of each month,we actually go out with the guys
into the field and uh we getreal with each other and we
interact with women.
Yeah, jump on over toblackboxdating.com to check out
the details.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:36):
Yeah, you were telling me some stories about
your your field work uh lastweek, and it sounds like so much
fun.
So that's uh that's cool.
So yeah, check those, check thecheck that out, guys.
Dallas, always a pleasure, man.
We blew through an hour again.
Awesome.
Thanks for all of your insight.
And if you if you guys foundsome some value in what we share

(01:09:58):
today, please share far and wideon social media.
Give us a star rating and orgive us a a comment that helps
us immensely.
Dallas, have an awesome week.
Thanks.
You too, Jude.
See you next week.