21 - Let's Get Physical: The Art Of Escalation

If touch has felt confusing after divorce—too fast, too formal, or just plain awkward—this conversation gives you a clear path from grounded presence to real chemistry. Jude and Dallas unpack the missing link many men never learned: how to make physical contact a normal, human bridge to connection long before it turns romantic. You’ll hear why American men often oversexualize touch, how to rebuild it as a confident, everyday skill, and how that foundation makes dates feel safer, smoother, and far more attractive.

We dive into the two pillars that change everything: physical certainty and emotional certainty. Physical certainty comes from living in your body—sports, drills, hard training, and experiences that teach control and power. Emotional certainty is steadiness under pressure: the ability to hold your own desire without needing immediate validation. Together, they create the calm energy that signals safety and leadership, whether you’re offering a first hug, guiding through a crowd, or placing a steady hand on a forearm to anchor a point.

From there, we shift into arousal with clarity. No sneaking, no mixed messages. Learn how transparent intent turns “creepy” into compelling, why consent is the floor and mutual desire is the goal, and how to read the simple metric behind all cues: is she leaning in or leaning away? We cover pacing (planting seeds and letting anticipation work), using statements instead of permission-seeking questions, and the classic 90% lean that invites her last 10%. You’ll also get practical lines and moves—like closing the gap with a playful “You’re a little too far away”—plus how to treat every cool reaction as feedback, not failure.

If you’ve wondered when to escalate, how to avoid overthinking consent, or how to build attraction without alcohol and awkwardness, this episode lays out the steps. Practice nonsexual touch daily, show up grounded on dates, signal desire openly, and escalate with care and courage. Want to go deeper and practice in real life? Join Dallas’s field work sessions or connect with Jude for post-divorce coaching. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a review to help more dads find their footing and their spark.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
Hello and welcome to Dad's Dating After Divorce.
The only pack, the only podcastout there for men like us, dads
uh traversing the wild andinteresting world of dating
after divorce, which looksnothing like dating pre-divorce.
I'm my name is Jude Sandwell.
I am the founder of the DivorceAdvocate and your co-host.

(00:43):
My other co-host today is DallasBluth.
Today and always, I don't knowwhy I always say that, the
founder of Black Box Dating.
How are you doing, Dallas?
Hopefully better than my tongueand my mouth is this morning,
apparently.

SPEAKER_03 (00:57):
Yeah, I'm doing great.
Your tongue and mouth might notbe working.
My nose isn't working.
I've been congested for the lastfive days.
Um it's uh it's the start of theseason, you know, for all that
stuff going into the holidays.
But uh you gotta roll with it,right?
It's just part of being part ofbeing on planet Earth.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14):
At least we're we're gonna warn the listeners up
front.
This might not be the mostaudibly pleasing episode because
we're both struggling thismorning.
So bear with us.
We've got a great topic, though.
It's definitely gonna be worthit for you listening to.
I'm affectionately titling itLet's Get Physical.

(01:36):
You know, the old OliviaNewton-John, and I'm dating
myself with that reference,right?
The Olivia Newton-John songLet's Get Physical, but we're
gonna be talking about how tointroduce physical touch and
becoming intimate with with awoman we've kind of been talking
about over the last severalweeks, some some dating tactics

(01:59):
and you know how to how to howto how to welcome somebody into
how to to give what do you callit?
Invitations.
Yes, how you give youinvitations, etc.
So now we're gonna talk abouthow you kind of take that next
step and invite into physicaltouch, right?
So so so we're let's set thescene, Dallas.

(02:22):
You've kind of been dating maybeon uh maybe on a couple of
dates, right?
And and hopefully you know orunderstand how to introduce some
physical touch into that,because really when we're we're
doing this dating process,right, we're wanting to create
connection with somebody.

(02:43):
And part of creating aconnection with somebody is is a
physical connection withsomebody, but that doesn't mean
that you're gonna go and startmaking out with them on the
first date, which can happen.
Like that does happen, it canhappen, right?
And and it's not necessarily abad thing, uh, and and we can
talk about that a little bit,but but at the very least,
you're you're wanting to startto create that that physical

(03:05):
connection with somebody.
And so so let's talk about firsthow do we start to kind of break
that touch barrier some withsomebody in those first few
dates where you're starting tobuild connection.
Maybe you're feeling you'reliking this person, you're
you're getting some of thesignals back, but you might not

(03:27):
be totally sure.
Like, what's you know, what arewhat's going on in our mind?
What are we thinking about?
What's the the situations andand how do we kind of start to
to introduce that?

SPEAKER_03 (03:38):
Yeah, okay, a great topic.
This is this is a really, reallyfun topic, right?

SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
Like we all want to be touchy-feely and like you
know, like eventually beintimate with somebody, right?

SPEAKER_03 (03:52):
Yeah, okay, so this uh this starts much, I would
say, earlier in the datingprocess than than what you just
laid out.
I would say physical touch issomething that needs to be a
natural part of our lives asmen.
It if physical touch begins whenwe are expressing attraction and
desire for a woman, we're you'reyou're too late for it to feel

(04:16):
natural and appropriate andwelcomed.
Physical touch needs to besomething that is that is firmly
established from the verybeginning.
Okay, we're just gonna back thisup.
Even before you're on a date,physical touch should be
something that you get to acomfortable place with, with
yourself and with people aroundyou.
Not I'm not saying you go aroundand you touch every person, but

(04:36):
I I know I've had situations,I'm I'm at I'm at Line at
Starbucks, you know, gettingsomething.
I'm kidding around with ahusband and wife next to me, you
know, and we go back and forth.
And that husband will clap me onthe shoulder.
He'll he'll break the physicalbarrier and he will touch me on
the shoulder, you know, once ortwice.
And it feels amazing for me as aas a straight adult male to

(05:00):
receive that from anotherstraight adult male.
It makes me feel welcomed.
It makes me feel like we took itfrom just kidding around into
feeling grounded and connected.
The level of trust is is larger.
I feel relaxed around him.
And he did that with his hand.
He did that because of the waythat he physically touched me.
Okay, there is zero percentphysical sexual attraction built

(05:25):
into that scenario with that manand his wife.
Zero whatsoever.
But there is a huge amount ofgood feelings and vibes in that
physical touch.
That's a skill that every adultman needs to develop.
And one of the challenges we runinto in the United States is
that American men, we have beentold, we have been taught, we

(05:47):
have been conditioned that mostof our touch is sexualized.
That is way off topic.
That is that is way wrong.
We have to understand thatphysical touch, physical
connection begins in anon-sexual context and then can,
with certain people and certainfeelings, move into an

(06:07):
attraction, sexual, you know,special intimate affection
realm.
But we have to start with beingcomfortable with non-sexualized
touch.
And you begin to do that by onthe first date.
But before I go into that, letme let you jump in and respond
to uh Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (06:24):
I just wanted to uh I just wanted to make the point
to to the dads listening that ifthat's uncomfortable for your if
you didn't even know that, thenit's not your fault.
That's something that's modeled,right, by uh by uh an adult male
in your in your early adult lifeor your childhood that that
knows and understands that.
Because right, like I didn't Ididn't know, I didn't understand

(06:44):
that uh as well.
The the the the the shoulderslap, like sometimes you'll like
slap another guy on theshoulder, and like that's just a
fun thing, right?
And you don't know that, or likebuddies that you might be
closer, you might put your armaround and be talking, or like
at a game or cheering, like youknow, that's that's exactly what
you're talking about.
And so, so I I feel like, andand we're gonna get into this.

(07:06):
We we just have this weird, Idon't want to say weird because
for whatever reason it'sdeveloped and things develop in
society for for whatever reason,but just this uh uncomfortable
just unc un being uncomfortablewith physical touch in general
in our in our in our in oursociety.
And and you're right, it has tobe, and I hadn't really thought

(07:28):
about the what it has become,but it's but it's become like,
oh, you touch and it's sexual,whether it's male, whether it's
female, it's not, and it'sreally not because you see men
in other countries that embraceeach other and kiss each other,
and that's a that's that'sreally, really normal.
And it's obviously, obviouslynot that sexual.
The other thing I'll talk aboutor that I want to point out is

(07:49):
like handshakes.
You do get taught handshakes asas a as a man, oftentimes in in
the the the the corporate world,and how to do that and how to
you know support underneath orputting over when you're shaking
with the other hand and stuff,and what the the different
meanings are or around that.
So that's all the same, that'sall kind of the same concept

(08:11):
here of what we're talkingabout.
And I like that you started itoff with the you know the the
the male part of it because itit translates into how you act,
like you said, how you are ableto act and how comfortable you
are feeling with with a woman indoing it.
And so so I think that's that'sgood.

(08:33):
And and and maybe we can, I thiswas not even in my notes, right?
I was gonna talk about it in theconcept con context of of women,
but let's talk about then howhow do we develop that with our
our bros, right?
With with each other and anddoing that without making it
weird.
Like we're not gonna like I'mnot gonna start going and

(08:54):
kissing my my buddies, right?
Like they do in Europe.
So that's like probably off thetable.
That's just gonna be a littletoo much for most any everybody
to handle.
But how can we how can we startto to do that and feel
comfortable?

SPEAKER_03 (09:08):
Yeah, good question.
So what we have to do isrealize, so let's take a
handshake, for example.
When you go to shake someone'shand, that's that's like saying
hello, how are you?
It can be extremely commonplaceand meaningless.
It can be very much just goingthrough the motions and and it
doesn't hold a whole lot ofanything in it meaning,

(09:31):
intentionality, presence, andany of that.
However, you know, you if Idon't know, for one out of every
10 or 20 people you shake theirhands, for some reason it feels
different.
That person is actually presentin that moment.
That person, they actually maketime stop for just a moment to
let you to let you feel thatyour presence is being fully

(09:52):
seen by them.
Okay, that's what you need to bepracticing it's with the
physical touch.
We're not slapping each other onthe soldier on the shoulders,
trying to get, I don't know,comfortable in in a in a non in
a completely nonchalant,meaningless, kidding around
roughhousing kind of way.
There's nothing wrong with that,but that's not what we're
talking about when we're talkingabout physical connection.

(10:13):
So when I go to shake a man'shand and I really want him to
feel that I respect him, Ireally want him to feel that he
has my undivided attention.
I want him to feel myphysicality joining up with his
physicality.
Uh, I had this actually when wewere working, doing our field
work last uh Friday onHalloween.
One of the guys in the group wasthere, and you know, he was a

(10:36):
little bit uncertain about uhhow to do some of the some of
the physicality with the with uhwith a woman.
And so I I love to justdemonstrate and role-play with
it.
So I took his hand, you know,and I I I pulled his hand
together and I put my other handon it and I held it for a
minute.
You know, and I and I said, youknow, and I and then I said
something like I would as a guy,you know, in in the particular

(10:58):
scenario that he was talkingabout.
And I took my hand away and Isaid, How did it feel just now
when I held your hand?
Like what was the feeling insideyou?
He said, I felt calm.
I felt grounded.
And I was like, that's exactlyit.
I'm not making a move on you.
He he gave me the example oflike rubbing a girl's back
slightly, you know, patting it.
And I was like, that's that's alittle, that's not nearly as

(11:19):
grounding as what I just did.
And it was combined with eyecontact, it was combined with
slowing down the speech, it wasshowing presence, like like you
said, you know, being presentand your presence and being
present, it shows all thosethings.
That's the starting place is torealize my physical touch is a

(11:39):
vehicle and a mechanism forconnection.
Am I creating that connectionwith another man?
Does that man feel honored,seen, strong, like he's my
brother, like we care about eachother?
Not just that we're brosslapping each other during a
football game, but like, does hesee that I'm actually with him

(12:01):
in this moment?
That is the kind of that's thekind of presence you want to
practice with your physicalitywith other men.

SPEAKER_01 (12:09):
Yeah, and and I wanted to add this all that
feeling that they get from youall stems from you having, and
we say it every week, right?
And we're probably gonna hearthis from us guys every single
week.
You being are you already havingthat, already having that
feeling in yourself and beingpresent in that in in your

(12:29):
masculinity already?
And that's gonna translate.
It's not gonna, it's gonna be aless, yeah.
There's some tips like I talkedabout, like putting the hand
under when you're shaking andthe and the firmness of the
shake, and how many times you goup and down, and how you like
how you release, like there'sall those skills, but really
what it's gonna come down to isthe energy like you described
that that you're conveying tothem.

(12:51):
Is it does it feel grounded?
Does it feel safe?
Does it with a woman, right?
Does it feel safe?
Does it uh secure, etc.?
And that's gonna be differentwith different people, but it's
gonna come from the energy thatyou're bringing to the situation
and and to being present.

SPEAKER_03 (13:08):
Yeah.
I I would even say, why am Ishaking this man's hand?
If there's if you can't answerthat question, you're not being
very present and you're notbeing very purposeful in your
physical touch.
You know, even in a businesscontext, I'm shaking this man
because I want his respect and Iwant him to know that he has
mine.
That's why I'm doing this.
And I'm going to convey that inon my face with you know

(13:30):
nonverbal cues that I'm givingin my body language, and I'm
going to convey it with myphysical touch.
And the and the reason we startthis with men is because it's
safe with men.
I don't have to worry aboutanother man feeling terribly
overpowered by me or threatenedor whatever, on average,
generally speaking.
I don't really have to worryabout this with other men.

(13:50):
So it is a safe place for me todevelop these skills and this
sensitivity with myself.
I can practice being present.
And then I can translate it intobeing physical with women.
Women are going to be much moresensitive.
Women are going to much easy,it'll be much easier for a woman
to feel threatened, to feellike, why is this man touching

(14:13):
me?
What is the context?
So it's so it really helps toessentially rehearse this, get
comfortable with it with othermen where it's basically 99%
safe.
And then you transfer over thesame sort of intentionality, the
same non-sexualizedcommunication.
And again, what I'm expressingis I feel physically certain and

(14:36):
safe in myself and in my body.
I am extending this out andsharing it with this other
person.
I was doing it with men.
Now I'm going to do it withwomen as well.
And I find, you know, it'sperfectly fine that that
scenario in the coffee shop whenthe guy says it, you know, and
we'll be kidding around, weswitch sides, you know, and

(14:56):
I'll, you know, and I'll make aphysical connection with his
wife.
There's no issue.
There's no problem there becausewe're not doing this to come
onto each other.
We're doing this to establishthat we're on the same team.
Yeah.
These are all skills that youwant to practice before you get
into a date scenario where thereis the romantic question.

(15:16):
Because you want to show thewoman, hey, I'm actually quite
comfortable with myselfphysically.
I'm comfortable with connectingwith the world physically.
And that's the foot I'm startingout on.
You know, when when you see eachother and you have that first
hug, yeah, awkward.
Do we do it?
Do we not?
You know, how do we shake hands?
Do we, you know, I'm I'm I'mgonna make room for her here, I

(15:38):
need to guide her.
She she's feeling just asawkward as you are most of the
time when it comes to what dohow do I orient myself
physically in the world.

SPEAKER_00 (15:47):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (15:48):
The more you can show up really physically
grounded in yourself, completelypresent, and you're able to show
why you're doing the physicalgestures that you are.
When you put your hand on herback and you lead her off to the
side because we are in the way,waiting for our coffee to show
up, and you just move her out ofthe way to make everything
function better.
You're not making a move on her.

(16:09):
You're not, you're not trying toget physical because you're
attracted to her.
You're demonstrating whateverybody experiences in your
presence as a man.
That is the starting place forbeing physical with a woman.

SPEAKER_01 (16:23):
Right.
So let's talk about some ofthose things because you
mentioned making a physicalconnection with the the guy's
wife or the the girlfriend too.
A lot of this stuff translatesacross the board and and what
you just described in showing upin the world and feeling
comfortable in your physicality,in your body, and and and being

(16:45):
able to navigate that on a on adaily basis.
And so some of those things Idescribed a little bit earlier
is is with with with with guyslike you said, the the tap on
the shoulder, or sometimes it'slike the the the tap on the
upper arm of uh you know, like aslap on the arm, or like, hey,
yeah.
Or yeah, uh so I hug, like I hugmy my guy friends, I hug my

(17:09):
daughters, I hug, like I hugeverybody.
So I'm I'm usually like, and I'msix too, so I'm pretty pretty
big, but I'm also cognizant oflike some people that that don't
want to do that.
So so kind of walk us throughsome of the the things.
The other the other one that'sthat I feel like that I've
worked on a lot is the like ifyou're joking or if you're

(17:31):
animated in something andtouching somebody's hand or arm
when you do that, or like whenyou want to make a point, like
if you're making a point and youlike that that kind of anchors a
point with somebody, especiallyif you're in a an intimate
conversation or at least uh anexclusive conversation with
somebody, whether it's sittingand standing, and if you're
making a point and you maybereach out to touch their hand or

(17:55):
their arm or something like thatto like really anchor in what
you're saying and while you'remaking the eye contact, which is
important because if you'redoing that and you're looking
around, that obviously is notthat's just like that's
disjointed.
You're you're looking atsomebody else and you're
touching them and making an ad.
Yeah, that would be weird,right?
But you're you're making eye eyecontact, you're you're you know,

(18:15):
touching them to kind of anchorthe the the point or the
conversation or or emphasize theconversation you have.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthat, how you can do that with
men, women, but then it itcarries over into, like you
said, showing up in that.
Now, it let's make a distinctiontoo while we're talking about
this, uh, because I think it'simportant.

(18:36):
When we're maybe having aconversation with one of our
buddies and doing that, it'sit's gonna connotate something
different than if we're doingthat on a date, right?
And and and you've got tounderstand the mindset.
You talked about women when theyshow up, there's there's a level
of vulnerability just showing upto a date that that a woman that

(18:58):
a woman is expressing andexperiencing, right?
And and so you you've got tounderstand that in in your
physicality there, it needs toconvey something different, like
like safety and security uh andprotection, rather than when
you're doing some of these samethings, which it's there's the

(19:19):
same skills, right?
Well, if you're doing with yourbuddy, you're maybe trying to
make a point or emphasizing oror or being lighthearted or
something, something like that.
So, okay, I just gave you likeabout 30 minutes worth of con of
stuff to talk about there.
So get it done in 15 with yourmagic, like you usually do.

SPEAKER_03 (19:39):
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, and we always go over, sotry to try to compare.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So right.
Okay, so I think you youdefinitely hit the nail on the
head.
Women experience morevulnerability in life than men
do.
On average, they just they theyhave more to to watch out for
when that when that happens.
So when we are physical with awoman, particularly one that we

(20:00):
don't know, the main, the mainmeaning, the main message that
we're trying to convey inphysical touch is you are safe
when you're around me.
I and the way we convey that toher is we have to have that in
ours in ourselves.
I as a man have to feel I havesafety inside of me.

(20:20):
The the the phrase that I usewith my clients is you're trying
to reach a place of physical andemotional certainty within
yourself as a man.
If I feel physically certain andif I feel emotionally certain in
myself, that is what I'm sharingwith someone around me.
If my touch is, if my touch witha woman on a first date is I'm

(20:42):
reaching out and I and I'm doingit because I want us to feel
safe, I want to feel like, youknow, that this is okay, what's
going on, this this is, youknow, it's a we thing.
That's not I I haven'testablished physical and
emotional certainty.
I'm not grounded in myself theway I need to.
I need to walk in the room fullygrounded, and then I'm extending

(21:07):
that.
Like, like, like I don't know,like in Star Trek, you extend
the shields from your shiparound the other ship.
And it creates this feeling ofah, okay, this this vessel is is
safe in itself, and it'sextending a shield around this
other one.
But she doesn't want to feellike you have to be doing that
in order to in order for you tofeel okay and safe on the date.

(21:31):
She wants to feel that this is,again, an invitation.
You can have my protection,young lady, if you want it.
It's here for the offering andit's quite attractive, but you
don't have to.
It's it's just an invitation foryou to be in that presence.
And she might not be comfortablewith that yet.
She might she might recoil andpull away.

(21:51):
Let her.
If she doesn't want, if she isnot comfortable with a hug, you
need to be physically andemotionally certain and grounded
enough in yourself to be able toaccept that.
And if and you have to just seehow that plays out over time.
Coming back again to the to thesensitivity that that women
experience and how to do it.

SPEAKER_01 (22:12):
Can I let me stop you real quick?
I'm gonna add another thing inhere because because I think
this is really important, whichis uh another challenge I find
in society with men knowing whatwhat that like what you're just
describing, their your abilityto make somebody feel safe has
to come from you knowing whatyou what you are capable of

(22:36):
physically.
And I think that's part of thechallenge we've that we're
having with young men thesedays.
I think it's a little less withmaybe our age men who who grew
up uh like tackling each otheron the playground and and and
and getting in fights off youknow on the playground and then
you know wherever else, etcetera, when it was more

(22:57):
socially acceptable for thatstuff to happen because that was
just kind of how how thingshappened.
And and Warren Farrell talksabout this in his book called
The Boy Crisis, that that thatit's been it's it's been
difficult now for men to reallyunderstand their, you know, if
you understand how dangerous youpossibly are because you've

(23:18):
engaged with another man that isdangerous also, and and and
you've tested those boundaries,you then can understand how a
better understand, you can neverunderstand how a woman feels,
but you can better understandhow you can create that that
safety net and that that safefeeling for them.
So so I I I add that in there tojust give the guys a tip around

(23:42):
if you haven't experienced thisphysically, maybe you need to do
some work on that.
And and that work can bedifferent for different guys.
Some is just going out andplaying a physical sport, some
it might you know just be uhgetting into your your your body
and doing really hard workoutsor something, but learn learn

(24:03):
where you gauge your physicalityand and how powerful you can be
and and really dangerous we canbe as uh as men at times, so
that you then have like somebenchmark, right, to to be able
to bring that to the situation.
So I just wanted to interjectthat.
I think that's really importantbecause I run into a lot of guys

(24:26):
that that just haven't done thatand haven't really gotten into
their bodies or tested thatphysicality.
So that's yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 (24:36):
That that's that's completely completely spot on.
And the only way to reallyincorporate it into yourself is
through a physicality.
You tackling other guys, youknow, having tested your
physical limits, havingdiscovered that masculine energy
does innately have a verydangerous component to it, that
has to be lived.

(24:57):
It has to be felt.
You can't just think it.
You have to go through one ofthose, you know, boot camp
warrior weekend type things tofind out what your limits are.
This goes back toHunter-Gatherer days.
Boys, the initiation intomanhood was scary.
Boys would be taken away fromtheir mothers, put out in the
wild with grown men around, soit is somewhat supervised, but

(25:20):
they're put into dangerous andfrightening, scary uh situations
because we have to face that asyoung men to then grow up into
more fully developed men.
And that is part of the physicalcertainty, that what I'm calling
physical certainty, thatphysical assuredness you have in
yourself.
Now, I'm gonna pair that againwith emotional certainty.

(25:43):
I can have that physically, andmaybe, you know, older
generations, you know, theymight be very physically
certain.
A lot of them, though, are notemotionally certain of
themselves.
True.
Younger generations maybe havemore emotional certainty and
less of the physical certainty.
Everybody's gonna come at thisfrom a different background,
they're gonna have a differentblend.
It doesn't matter.

(26:04):
Physical and emotional certaintyare the key ingredients of
making you feel attractive whenyou're on a date and in the
world at large.
And I'm gonna say this isn'tsomething that you work on once
and then you're kind of and thenyou're you're done with it or
you have to do some maintenancework.
But I would say I will frommyself, 90% of the work I do in

(26:28):
creating physical and emotionalcertainty is with myself.
And of that 90%, most of it'sbefore I ever interact with
another person.
I spend most of the day working,I mean digging, facing myself to
get to a place where I have thethe deep rooted, solid, concrete

(26:49):
block, physical and emotionalcertainty, so that I simply
experience deep calm withinmyself.

SPEAKER_00 (26:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
And when you bring that so, and but I I do also
want to add the caveat in thereto the dads listening because
you're a pro, you do this everyday, and you're really good at
it, and you make it look very,very easy.
That's a lot that is and whichis which is great.
The dads out there, you know,they're working all day long,

(27:18):
and then they're coming home andtaking care of the kids, and
they got to pay the bills, andthen they got maybe an access
hassling them or whatever.
I we understand that this isn'tsomething you know we that that
we that we expect you to justsit down then and carve out
study time for hours a day andbecome Zen master in that.

(27:39):
It it could be as simply assimple as making sure that
you're involved in some sort ofmen's group, having men's time
with guys, doing something withthe guys, and then just being
conscientious about what we'retalking about here, and then
maybe taking a skill like likelike embracing your your buddy
or the shoulder slap or making apoint and and and and and

(28:01):
touching his arm or his ashoulder or something like that,
and and then just working ongetting comfortable with that.
It can be as simple, it can beas simple as that.
We I feel sometimes Dallas, wecome, we talk about a lot of
this stuff, and and we know itsometimes, and and and we've
done the work, but like the guyslistening are going, Jesus, are

(28:22):
you shitting me?
Because I got all this stuff,and you want me to focus on this
skill and that skill and beingemotionally ready, and that's
like holy crap.

SPEAKER_03 (28:30):
Like okay, let me okay, let me let me let me get
more illustrative about mypersonal practice.
Okay, very little of what I'mtalking about in striving for
physical and emotional certaintyin myself comes from me taking
time out in my day to bemindful.
Yeah, I do have a meditationpractice, but that is not where
most of this is done.

(28:51):
Because in those moments, it'sactually not where I'm being
tested the most.
It's it's throughout the daywhen I'm trying to respond to
emails, I'm in meetings, I'm ata networking event, I'm
recording on camera, I'mcoaching men, I'm working with
groups, I'm working withcontractors, I'm I'm I have
busy, busy days where I havelots going on, even though I

(29:11):
don't have kids.
It's throughout the day that myfeelings of uncertainty, of
insecurity come up.
It's in the middle of thechallenge.
And it's in the middle of thechallenge that I have to I
choose on one level, okay, I'mdealing with this contractor,
but on the other level, insideof myself, I am asking myself,

(29:34):
Dallas, how do you reorientyourself in this moment to
create more physical andemotional certainty for myself
and for the person that I'mworking with?
So this isn't this this issomething that's going on in
parallel with all the otherresponsibilities, all the other
activities in life.
But and what it really boilsdown to is this is a guiding

(29:57):
star.
It's a north star that I'm goingto.
I want to choose orientationsinside of myself that lead me to
a more grounded place.

SPEAKER_00 (30:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (30:07):
I do not take half the day out to, you know, go to
my special retreat temple and,you know, and and like do all of
this.
This happens when the rubbermeets the road because you know
what?
That's when we get sick.
Scared.
That's when we have live wiresthat we have to deal with.
And when you're on a date,you're going to have the same
challenges come up.
And that's where you have to belooking for these deep-rooted

(30:30):
certainties within yourself.
You have to find it in the liveaction, when it's when the when
the juice is running through thewires.

SPEAKER_01 (30:38):
Right.
Well, and you let's be clear,you are a guru.
You don't spend your day inmeditation and doing all that.
But uh, and and I didn't and Ididn't mean to to insinuate that
either.
But I think so so maybe we cansum that part up as if there's
if you experience, if you havefeelings come up around that,
whether it's you experienceanother masculine man that does

(31:00):
that, and you're like, oh, thatwas that's interesting, or like
you're attracted to that, right?
I think that's the big one.
You see a guy that's masterfulat this, and you're like, oh,
you we talk about Brad Pitt allthe time, right?
But we're like, oh man, likethat's like he's like he's cool.
Like I'd like to get a hug fromBradley.

SPEAKER_03 (31:23):
Oh my gosh, one of the best highlights of my life.

SPEAKER_01 (31:27):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
So so be be aware.
Maybe we can just say be awarewhether that's like a like a
positive feeling towards that ora discomfort around it, and
like, oh man, I'm I'm notfeeling comfortable in in how
how it's happening or how I'mshowing up.
Also, to just be aware and thenjust do some reflection on it

(31:49):
and then take what we're goingto talk about now, which is
those those skills of of how todo it, in in incorporate that in
your daily life.

SPEAKER_03 (31:59):
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, yeah, that's awesome.
Um, I do, I know we always goway over, and right now we've
gone into how to ground yourselfas a man.

SPEAKER_01 (32:05):
We've just physically without worrying
about going over because this isimportant.
It's honestly I Dale, so I talkabout all the time.
Nobody talks about this stuff.
And if you didn't have a a malerole model that's that really
either just modeled it for you,or or even better yet, modeled
it and talked to you about itand guided you through it.

(32:26):
None of us know any of this,this, this stuff.
And I wish I had somebodytalking, I wish I had somebody,
something like this to listento, which is why you and I love
to do this, to listen to, toreally try to get an
understanding of it.
And so it's it's important stuffand it's and it's really good
stuff.
So yeah.
So yeah, we'll just keep doingit.
We'll just keep talking aboutit.

unknown (32:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (32:48):
In a in another episode, I would love to revisit
what you said about askingyourself how it feels to receive
this from another man, becausethat's actually at the very
heart and really uh my story ofhow I became a dating and
relationship coach.
It brings it comes into that.
But we will say that for anotherepisode of you know how that
came into play.
But let's get back to the moreimportant and fun topic of how

(33:10):
you go from a grounded placewhere all touch is neutral into
the romantic side.
Because I think that's what theguys definitely want to hear
about is how do you how do youthen take that into that place?
Do you want to jump in with yourtake on that before we well?

SPEAKER_01 (33:26):
So, like I said, it it tr it transcends whether it's
whether it's touching anotherman or a woman.
The difference for me is the thecontext in which you're doing it
and and the mindset that you'rehaving around it and what you're
trying to accomplish by it.

(33:47):
So for me, if if I'm on a dateand things are just flowing and
we're having a really greatconversation, it's pretty easy
for me to uh to to be uhlaughing about something and
touch her hand or just making apoint and touch her forearm or
her forearm or her elbow or orsomething like that.
It's real easy if we're walkingthrough somewhere.

(34:09):
I mean, this is just from being,I don't know that I ever even
learned this.
It's just my my masculine natureof protection.
Maybe it's having daughters, butlike wanting to move her away
from something that might beharmful to to her, and you know,
doing that with a touch on thesmall of her back, right?
Not the not their lower back,not her butt, like, and then not

(34:30):
taking her by the shoulders andmaneuvering her around.
Like it's just a just a touchand a guide with your with your
hands.
So, so but the the theunderlying context is is safety,
is security, feeling protected,and and and that's the real
difference in in how I'mapproaching it, especially if

(34:51):
I'm on a on a date with somebodywho's a romantic interest.
Now, I think that's anotherdistinction also that we can
make.
This like this mindset is Idon't want to say should, but
will probably when you getcomfortable with it with with
women, whether it's a romanticinterest or your daughters or

(35:11):
just a mutual friend, is gonnabe pr very much the same until
you want to cross that romanticbarrier.
And I'll let it let you take itfrom there.

SPEAKER_03 (35:23):
Yeah.
So I I agree, have establishingphysical touch in a safety,
reassuring sense, that's theplace to start.
And you practice it witheverybody, you practice it on
the date, as you would withpeople that you're not on a date
with, because you want thatwoman to feel like she is in a
larger, safe world with you.
Great.

SPEAKER_00 (35:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (35:41):
Okay, now I'm attracted to her and I don't
want her to only feel safe withme.
I want her to feel aroused.
I want her to feel I'm aroused.
And the word is arousal.
You know, this is this is whereattraction comes into play.
Butterflies, you know, startcoming out.
And women want us to be aroused.
They want us to be turned on,they want us to be attracted to

(36:03):
them.
And we want them to be attractedand turned on when they're
around us.
And this is a very, a verydifferent kind of touch.
It's it's still connected, it'sstill safe, but it extends into
an area where the intent isarousal.
And you want to be very clearwith yourself that I am I'm not
trying to sneak in, kind of alittle bit of like a grab on the

(36:26):
butt or maybe a brush againstthe boob or something mixed in
with feeling safe.
That's creepy.
And creepiness, the nature ofcreepiness is you are concealing
your intentions and hopingnobody notices.
It's creepy.

SPEAKER_00 (36:39):
Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_03 (36:40):
Say that again.
Creepiness is where you'reconcealing your intentions and
hoping nobody notices.
And people who feel thatsomebody's being creepy, it's
because he's not beingforthright and upfront about the
fact that he's asking her out.
He wants her number.
When I'm like, hey, I came overhere to talk to you because
you're gorgeous and I would loveto take you out.

(37:03):
I I might not be the mostcharming guy in the world if I
say that, but there's no waythat I'm seen as creepy because
I'm being transparent.
I'm I'm not concealing anything.
Okay, so we have touch that'svery safe.
We don't want to somehow justkind of sneak in.
I know that was the old the oldstereotype is like you're at the
movie theater, you yawn.

(37:23):
Oh, you put your arm around her.
Okay, if you're doing it in acheesy way and you're laughing
at yourself, that's fine.
Laughing at yourself is a way ofsaying, we both know what I'm
doing, and it's ridiculous.
No, that's transparent.
That's being obvious.
A more or a less cheesy way toto breach that uh barrier from

(37:44):
safe touch to touch thatinvolves arousal or has the
intent of arousal, is toessentially it's it's a it it's
a smirk.
You you don't have to actuallyhave a smirk on your face, but a
smirk is I'm desiring somethingand I'm holding it inside, and
we both know what we want tohappen, and I'm exercising

(38:07):
discipline, and that's creatingthis tension, but you can tell
what I'm after here.
That that should that shouldprelude, that should be what you
begin with, is for her to seeyour intention is arousal, your
intention is affectionate in aromantic way, your intention is
intimate.

(38:27):
And you want to give her thechance to see that you're you've
gone from checking her out andgoing, okay, the vibe's all
right, we feel good, you're notcrazy, I'm, you know, this is
all good, to I want to make amove on you.
Now notice I'm not saying, is itokay if I make a move on you?
If that's the first thing, ifthat's the first question in my

(38:48):
mind, I'm not connected withmyself properly.
Right.
Me saying to myself, I want tomake a move on her, I want to
make a move on you.
I know this in myself.
I'm gonna come back to.
I have physical and emotionalcertainty in myself that I want
to make a move on you.
Okay, that's hot for a woman.

(39:09):
I'm I'm not laying that on her,I just know that about myself.
And she can decide whether tosay yes or no to that desire and
that invitation.
That that is the starting place,is for me to not ask myself, is
it okay for me to want to make amove on her?
And definitely not for me to askher, is it okay if we?

(39:30):
No, that's not hot.
That's that's being a littleboy, that's being needy, that's
asking her for permission.
You grant yourself permissionand say, yes, it's okay to have
the desires that you have.
And you're expressing that in asmirk.
You know, you probably have alittle bit of flirting, you have
something else.
You can you can say things inwords, you know, like, I don't

(39:51):
know, like one of the things offthe top of your head is, you
know, it's like, oh, well, yeah,well, we'll get back to that
later when I, you know, when I'mkissing you, you know, in the
parking lot.
And you know, you're you'reyou're throwing it way out there
in the future.
She has plenty of time to sayno, and she knows it's not
happening right now.
Um, another one that that I feelis good, you know, this is a
line that that I feel is rathereffective is you're a little too

(40:13):
far away right now.
I want her to be closer to me inproximity.
Me saying you're too far away,that has nothing to do with
safety.
That has to do with I want youcloser to me.
If she's in a chair, if she's onthe other side of the table, you
can't do this.
But like let's say you're at abar and you're next to each
other, I will physically, if Ican do it safely, physically

(40:33):
take the chair.
And all I'm looking for is notno.
If she's leaning back, if she'ssaying no, if she's putting up
barriers, okay, clearly Ishouldn't do it.
If it's yes to neutral, I'm justgonna go ahead and if I can
safely grab her chair, pull thebar stool over closer to me.
Usually women love that becauseI'm now demonstrating that I'm

(40:55):
doing it.
I didn't even touch herdirectly, but her entire body
got shifted by my desire.

SPEAKER_00 (41:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (41:03):
And that that's a way of stepping into it.

SPEAKER_01 (41:06):
Yeah, well, let's talk about some of these
non-verbal cues also that we canpick up on before you know
before trying to to to move itto romantic physicality, which
is some of testing some of thoseboundaries of of of touch and
seeing how she reacts.
Like, is she comfortable whenyou touch her hand and you're

(41:27):
you're making a joke or you'reher elbow, or her, or is she is
she pulling back?
Is she moving?
Is she shifting her body?
Is her is her posture uh awayfrom you as opposed to direct?
Is she making eye contact?
These are all things that thatyou need to pay attention to
because that's gonna that'sgonna help to move you towards

(41:47):
this next step, which is is whatyou are describing.
When she when you do pull in, isshe like laugh?
And this is you know, you you'regonna know when she pulls you,
she's gonna laugh and be like,oh, that's hot.
Like he's strong and he's yeah,pulling me closer.
And he's you know, you're notdoing it, you're not doing
anything other than shiftingphysical proximity, right?
And it's and it's not it's notcreepy, right?

(42:09):
So, or the conversation of whatyou're talking about, having
some fun, witty banter uh uharound something like, yeah,
when when you know, when you'remaking out, or you know, if I
have to keep you from kissing melater, or something, yeah, you
know, whatever, whatever youmight be be saying, what's the
reaction you're you're you'regetting?
Is she playing along with it oris she just like not?

(42:31):
And if she's not, then then weget into this whole consent,
non-consent thing, which youknow we gotta talk about because
it's out there and and there'ssome some really, really like
off the the the charts peoplewith with this that literally
wants you to sign a form and youknow go through like a stamping

(42:53):
ceremony and of there's consent.
And it's and it's justridiculous because you should
know and you should understandwhether or not consent is
happening in the moment.
And this I think goes back againto this to this whole boy crisis
and the when our inability, manyof our inabilities.
Well, our inability is one toteach boys this, but to have

(43:18):
taught and and made women feelcomfortable in just having that
consent happen naturally, whichis the sexiest, hottest way in
which we connect with with eachother.
So let's talk, let's just get itout of the way and talk about
it.

SPEAKER_03 (43:35):
There's a there's a whole lot, there's a whole lot
there.
Yeah, I yeah, I always find thatthe best way to avoid this is
just have a notary public onspeed dial.
You know, and you know, and ifthey're willing to be in the
room while having sex, thenthat's the safest possible.
Yeah, right.
What better way to kill a moodthan that?
Right.
This is after the the woman thatyou meet with.

SPEAKER_01 (43:54):
So here's what I have to say.
And you go and you in inattorney style, you've you've
got the attorney with 20questions, you pass the quiz,
and then you got the consentform, and you've got the notary
there.
Like that's the yeah.
Some yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_03 (44:08):
It's official.
File, yeah, file it with thecounty so that yeah, it's on
record in public in a publicmarket.
Yeah, yeah.
Um okay, so the these are theseare issues that are important.
Okay, if you're in doubt ofwhether or not this woman is in
the mood, it go work wait untilyou know that she's in the mood.

(44:32):
So a lot of guys, that this iskind of sad, but a lot of guys,
the bar that they're shootingfor is consent.
Yeah you know, a lot of men arelooking for women that say yes
to it, or they're saying, okay,or I I agree to having sex with
you.
Unfortunately, this is the barand the target for a lot of

(44:53):
guys.
I I say this to my clients allthe time consent is a really low
bar.
The reason it's a low bar isbecause the quality of sex when
all you have is consent is kindof crappy.
What you want is desire from thewoman.
You have desire on your end, andyou don't want her saying, okay,
yes, I give you permission toexercise your desire with my

(45:16):
body.
Lame, really lame sex.
What you want is, first of all,to present your desire as
desire.
Again, you know, the smirk thatwe're talking about, the energy,
I'm not hiding it, which makesit not creepy.
And when you show and you shareand you flex your desire and you
continue to maintainresponsibility for it, that's

(45:37):
hot.
You have to hold that longenough and you have to present
it and package it and deliver itin ways that are effective
enough that the woman then inreturn has desire coming up
inside of her.
On average, it's going to takelonger for her desire to come up
than yours as a man.

(45:58):
That's just women warm uplonger, but they retain the heat
longer.
That's that's just how it works.
But what you want to be shootingfor to avoid any technical
complications of, oh, was thereconsent or not?
Guys, alcohol, it lowersinhibitions and it maybe makes
things easier.
But to your point, in today'sworld, it makes it really
complicated.

(46:18):
Drugs, same thing.
Makes things a lot morecomplicated.
You don't want to be brandedwith any of these things.
You you and you don't want to beto be setting the bar at simply
consent.
Desire from the woman.
The woman's like, hell yes, Iwant you to take me back to your
place.
That's what you're looking for.
That both people are ready.

(46:39):
And it and if that and if you'renot there yet, guys, you're not
gonna have good sex yet.
You're not.
If what you're looking for isjust sex, can can I add that
takes connection, right?

SPEAKER_01 (46:51):
So it's not it's it's if you're looking for
consent, that's wrong.
If you're looking forconnection, then you're on the
right track.
So if you're if you'reconnecting with her in in in a
way that's much it that'stapping into her desire, then
you're on the right track.
And then you can start to to totest these.

(47:15):
The the the consent part isreally just feedback for her
desires, the way that I look atit, right?
So if you're you're you'reyou're testing, I feel like, and
and tell me what you think aboutthis, Della, is it you're you're
testing your connection throughthrough these these small little
consensual interactions thatyou're having with her at

(47:38):
whatever at every given point.
And that that that starts maybewith with with when you meet her
the first time and does she hugyou and is she open to that?
Does she shake your hand?
And then in the conversation aswell, and then as you as you
described, in doing littlethings and expressing your
desire, moving her closer toyou, moving her through a crowd

(48:01):
or or something like that.
Like, is she reacting positivelyto each of those each of those
things?
And then when you're you'regetting to the point where you
want to you might want to tokiss her and and and you'll go
to that that next level, then isshe leaning into you when you

(48:22):
hug her good uh goodbye, maybeuh the day prior, or when you
see her when you show up forthat day, or she's still not
quite there when she sits down,is she sitting by you, is she
engaged with you, etc.
Like those are those littleconsensual things that you're
looking for that's buildingconnection, and then you can
take that to that next, and thenand then it's just kind of

(48:44):
natural.
Then you know that she wants tokiss you, right?
And then maybe there's sometricks around how you go in to
do that without it being like,Can I kiss you?
Which is just ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 (48:57):
Well, yeah, yeah, a lot there.
Um, I was laughing because of uhthe movie Hitch.
People bring it up all the timewhen I'm talking to him about
it.
And there's that scene wherewhen Will Smith is the dating
coach, Hitch, you know, and hetells him you lean in 90%.
And the guy, you know, his hisguy, his protege, is like
leaning in, leaning in, and youknow, and then he and and

(49:18):
they're holding it, and there'sa moment of tension, and then he
goes the last 10% and kissesWill Smith, and Will Smith
freaks out, and he says, I said90%, not 100%.
And but but there is that isagain when I'm leaning in and
I'm about to kiss her, but Idon't, and I'm holding it and
I'm waiting to see how does sherespond to that?

(49:39):
This is all about the woman'sresponse.
Is she leaning in?
Is she leaning away, or is shebeing some sort of ice queen,
steadfastly in the middle, notreacting, which is sort of its
own category of what to do withit.
You don't have to ask verbally.
You can ask with your bodylanguage.
When you're leaning in andgetting closer, does she lean

(49:59):
towards you or does she leanaway from you?
And that's basically all you'relooking for in all of these
interactions.
Is she leaning into what you'redoing, or is she leaning away
from what you're doing?
All the body language cues, allthe verbal cues, all of the
playfulness and the flirting, itcan be boiled down to is she
leaning in, which is a yes, oris she leaning back, which is a

(50:21):
slow down or stop?
And basically, what those twoare is they are encouraging me
to continue what I'm doing, ordiscourage me from what I'm
doing.
A lot of women are not thataware that they have that much
power over men in how theyrespond to what we're doing.
But the base basically, ifyou're wondering, you know, does

(50:44):
this woman like what I'm doing?
Just ask yourself, is herresponse to what I'm doing
encouraging me, or is herresponse to what I'm doing
trying to cool the jets anddiscourage me?
That's all you need to reallyknow.
Because if it if you're beingencouraged, go ahead and show a
little more.
Go ahead and flex a little moreof your desire.

(51:04):
Go ahead and lean a littlefurther out there and see if she
continues to encourage you byleaning back in towards you.
There's there are endlessamounts of body language, verbal
tech, verbal stuff, cues.
There's all kinds of stuff.
One great book, I'm just goingto throw it out there, uh,
Vanessa Van Edwards.
She is a body language expert.

(51:24):
I maybe I've mentioned on thepodcast before.
Uh her latest book, Cues, breaksthis down into so many small
levels.
And it doesn't matter how goodyou are at body language,
there's always going to be morethat you can that you can see
and understand.
She's amazing.
I've listened to her on podcast.
She's really wonderful live.
If you're looking for specificcues, and the cues are

(51:44):
basically, I'm closing off, I'mI'm shutting down, I'm not
feeling that safe, I'm I'm notfeeling that encouraged, I'm I'm
feeling, you know, like I needto kind of keep to myself,
versus, you know, encouragingcues are ones that are more
open, more exposing yourself,more inviting, more saying, I
want more of you in the mespace.

(52:05):
This is you know, but theybasically fall into one of two
categories.
And you just have to askyourself, is this encouraging or
discouraging behavior from thewoman?

SPEAKER_01 (52:16):
Yeah, she is amazing, and she talks about all
of how we're kind of messed up,I don't want to say messed up,
but confused in society aroundthat and and how you can make
that make that better.
Other thing I wanted to add isyou you talk about expressing
your desires.
You can do that verbally also.

(52:38):
So it while you're using the andI feel I feel like that's even
that's even sexier and and morefun and can give you some
feedback as well.
And and and instead of it beingquestions while you're leaning
in, it can be it can bestatements, like statements of
your desire.
I've been wanting to kiss youall night as you lean as you
lean in.
And you know, does she laugh andlean back in?

(53:01):
Does she like grab your head andstart making out with you
because she's been wanting toalso like you know, that that
can be that can be helpful too.
So if you're again, if you'rebeing upfront and and about what
you're doing, what you'redesire, guys.
Let's just lay it out there.
There's nothing wrong withdesiring women.

(53:22):
Like we are designed to desirewomen, and women uh want to be
desired, right?
Yes, they don't want to be, theydon't, you know, let's let's
let's become clear.
They don't want to be consumed,right?
But they want to be, and that'syour word, right?
Like, yeah, yeah.
Like you don't we're not outthere to consume, right?

(53:43):
We're out there to to toconnect, desire, like that's
mutually beneficial.
And that comes back to your toyour mindset, and expressing
that stuff is perfectly okay,guys.
Like that there's there'sthere's we should also there
should be talks or studies aboutthe the verbal communication
around that too, because whynot?

(54:04):
Why not talk about how much youdesire somebody, how much you
like, what they look like, orhow they smell, or their voice,
like all this stuff that I thinkthat's that's gone away with
poetry and and some of the uhsome of the the old arts around
romance, if if you will, thatwe've kind of lost, and now
we're on, you know, let me dropinto your DMs, like what the

(54:27):
hell is that?
How about you write her like alittle poetic note and leave it
in leave it in her pocket orsomething like that?
That that's creating a desire,opening up a desire.
It's communicating your desire,and that's sexy as hell.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (54:41):
And communicating your desire is being vulnerable.
When I am sharing with her whatmy desire is, I'm being
vulnerable.
And again, women experience tonsof vulnerability.
I feel, and I have seen veryconsistently that it is more
effective for a man to balancethe scales by going first in his

(55:01):
vulnerability in theinteraction.
Sharing my desires for her, youknow, boy, you know, if I say,
you know, it's just I reallywant to touch your hair, I'm
just sharing with her a desirethat's inside of me.
And a lot of times we're justlike, well, I would love for you
to touch my hair.
You know, it's about time.
We've been talking for an hourand a half.
I would love for you to go intoa more of a physical space.

(55:23):
I I think I also want to laydown here it's very effective
also to, I know you mentionedsaying something and leaning in
at the same time.
There's nothing wrong with that.
I also find it very effective,though, to break these pieces
apart.
So I'll say that like, I reallywant to touch your hair.
It looks so beautiful.
And I don't do anything.
That creates tension, thatcreates anticipation.

(55:46):
And she's like, well uh, andthen it forces her almost to say
and you know, meet that withdesire of, well, I want you to
touch my hair now.
Similarly, you know, if I come,you know, and I do touch her
hair, and then I come back 20minutes later, there's a lull in
the conversation.
I don't say anything, and I'lljust put my hand through her

(56:07):
hair and I'll simply go back toit.
I don't have to verbally say it.
She knows what I'm coming backto.
And in a lot of ways, not sayingsomething makes the touch even
more impactful.
I I talk to guys, you know, whenthey're when they're meeting
somebody, you know, and you knowwhat their interests are and
you're trying to plan dates andall this.
I tell them, great, you've beengiven some ammunition.

(56:29):
Don't shoot it all off at onego.
Like you want to make everysingle round count, every one of
them.
You want you want to bestrategic.
You don't you don't want to bloweverything that you have right
up front.
Say what the desire is and thenwait.
If I if I use everything atonce, that doesn't that that

(56:49):
first of all, I've run out ofI've run out of material.
I have to wait for more materialto arrive.
And and second of all, there'sno room for generating a sense
of anticipation, romance,mystery, and tension.
This is one of the things aboutbeing physical that I can't
believe we haven't said it here,and I'm sure we're coming up on
an hour.

(57:10):
Women, you know, what's thesaying?
Men need a place, women need areason to have sex.

SPEAKER_00 (57:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (57:17):
For for men, it's it's fairly simple, but women,
they need a reason.
There, there needs to be astory, a drama, a tension.
There needs to be some romance,there needs to be stuff around
it.
We have to break down what we'redoing and leave room for that
anticipation and that romance tobe built.
And when we do that, she's muchmore aroused and ready for the

(57:42):
physical touch.
If we take everything, packageit, and deliver it all at once.
Oh, you know, I just would loveto kiss you, and then you lean
in and kiss.
I'm not saying that can't work,but it would be more effective
to give her time to plant theselittle seeds, let them kind of
take root and let them startdoing things inside of her.
That creates the arousal whereshe's again not just consenting

(58:05):
and saying, Yes, you can kissme.
She's wanting and eager andhungry for you to kiss her.
That's where we want to be as aman.

SPEAKER_01 (58:12):
Well, and it's like stoking a fire.
And we've talked in the pastabout women are more like slow
cookers, right?
Like it's you're you're you'reyou're taking your time through
this.
And then, and to your pointalso, it's gonna take you some
time to understand what whatthat desire, how to tap that
desire, like stoking the fire.
Like you don't stoke the firethe same way, like there's

(58:34):
different conditions that areout there.
Sometimes it's windy, you gottayou gotta build a shelter, like
it might there's different waysthat you're gonna stoke that
fire, and that's only gonna takeyou looking for those little
cues that are maybe she doesn'tlike her hair stroked, okay?
Like, okay, so then you know,like that's not that's not the
way there.
So you're gonna you're gonnalook for something else, and and

(58:56):
then you're just building thatslowly and surely, and then
that's when it becomes really,really intense, and then you've
you've you've created thattension, and then and then it
just becomes really awesome.

SPEAKER_03 (59:11):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and I think to your maybewhat's also part of the point
you're making is that everywoman's going to respond to
different invitations, they'regonna respond to different
desires.
Uh, don't assume you know thatevery woman is going to respond
the same way, in the sametimeline, in the same order.
They're they're going to responddifferently.

SPEAKER_02 (59:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (59:32):
So I think okay, make your yeah, go ahead.
So one last thing I just want tocome back to.
So the word for this of movingfrom safe physical touch into
arousal touch, romantic touch,affectionate touch, the the word
is escalation.
You're you're moving into higherenergy levels.

(59:52):
You're escalating the energylevels, you're getting closer
and closer to taking clothesoff.
That's it's it's escalatingthings in a lot of ways.
Men, you need to understand thatsomebody has to escalate.
In a perfect world, the two ofyou are just over the moon,
crazy about each other, and itjust happens.
And it's happened to all of us.
It's amazing when it does.
Not the case most of the time.

(01:00:14):
Escalating is is a dangerousscale.
Edgy activity to do.
And it is totally on you as aman because it's sexy when men
do it.
It is expected.
It's enjoyed.
It is a good thing.
It is positive to escalate.

(01:00:35):
Which means you take it fromjust safe touch into arousal and
you know and romantic andattraction touch.
Escalating is good.
Escalating is healthy.
If you don't need to worry aboutanyone, you know, throwing a fit
about the fact that you'reescalating or inviting someone
to escalate.
You're on a flippin' date.

(01:00:57):
Of course, that's part of it.
This happens at a certain point.
Don't try to escalate in thefirst 10 minutes.
You know, wait and move italong.
But don't wait for theescalation to happen on its own.
There is no it to escalate.
Somebody has to reach out andchoose to escalate.
Don't be afraid to do it as aman.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:19):
Yeah, and I think the the the word is risk, right?
It there's going to be a riskassociated with it.
And but there's going to be arisk associated with it all the
way.
So you're again, you're whenyou're at each each what each
one of these different phases,if you if you will, is is an
escalation, right?
So and there's a riskassociated, but you're looking

(01:01:40):
for the feedback.
And also don't if you don't getthe the reaction that you were
expecting, that's okay too,because that's it's not failure.
So there's risk associated withthis.
And and and and and but don'tlook at it as a as a binary
risk.
Like I feel like oftentimes dad,not just dads, but guys get into

(01:02:01):
oh, fail.
That was a fail.
Well, it's not a fail, it'sfeedback, right?
So maybe the feedback is likeyou haven't stoked the fire, or
you haven't found the right wayto stoke the fire yet, or
there's there's a conversationthat needs to be had, or what
whatever that might be, it'sfeedback, and that's just gonna
help you to you know to knowwell, that wasn't a good one.

(01:02:23):
I can check that off the list.
Let's go to the next one andwe'll see that.
Or maybe I need to pull back andI need to cultivate this.
I need to get a more of anaccelerant to put on that fire,
like whatever it is.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:34):
Yeah, she didn't like my invitation.
You know, she either like didn'tlike the man, she didn't like
what I was inviting her to, shedidn't like the look, the feel,
the smell, the the height, theweight, who knows, you know.
She right, but you extend aninvitation.
If it's truly an invitation,that's open-ended.
If it's truly an invitation, ifit is not open-ended and you're
hurt or you know, getting bentout of shape, that's not an

(01:02:58):
invitation, dude.
That's a request.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:01):
You need to learn how to extend invitations, make
them attractive.
That'll increase, you know, theyour you know, your positive
response, right?
Your desirable, you know,outcomes.
It'll increase, you know, youryour your turn, your the the
ratio, you know, of of you knowwhat your percentage of of good
responses are.
But you have to remember theseare just invitations, and not

(01:03:23):
every woman is available, notevery woman is going to match
with it.
There it's it's going to be youknow a small percentage.
And by small I mean definitelyunder 50%.
That's normal.
That's fine.
That's not a that's not a fail.
That's part of how you do it.
When you go out hunting, you youdon't see a deer to shoot every

(01:03:43):
hour.
You know, that and like goingout on dating, expecting every
woman to say yes, is sort oflike expecting a large game to
appear, you know, like one anhour.
Like I I've never been largegame hunting, but I think you
can go for days without seeinganything.
It's that's that's the nature ofit.
That's that's simply the waythat it works.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:02):
Yep, absolutely.
I'm actually heading out thisweek to to do to go on my large
game hunting.
And yes, it's been a couple ofyears actually since we've
gotten an animal.
So so so yeah, that's that's aperfect, perfect analogy.
I think to end on, I I I feellike we can end here, and this
is a good spot before we talkabout uh intimate like sexual

(01:04:26):
intimacy with somebody and howto introduce that because I feel
like that's a whole maybe I hadit on my list to talk about, but
as usual, we we got into nuanceand some of the really, really
important stuff that that Ithink that was really was really
good.
So we can we can save that nextstep for a whole episode in and
of its uh self and and talkabout how to to to then go to

(01:04:48):
that next level with withsomebody as well.
So Dallas, it was that wasawesome.
Where can where can the guysconnect with you?

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:56):
Jump on over to blackboxdating.com.
You can check out the men'scoaching program that we have
there to see all the details.
Once a month we uh we do fieldwork live in the field, which is
something that all the guysreally enjoy.
Feel free to come and join us.
We're there's a two-week freetrial, so just start it right
before then, and you can uh comeon out with us and uh meet in
person.
Same to you, Jude.

(01:05:17):
How can you guys uh follow upand get more of your your
divorce wisdom?

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:20):
Well, and before I before I give them that, I do
want to point out the fieldworkstuff that you do is awesome.
We're talking about uh alsodoing some some stuff as well
that's uh that's live and in andin person uh as well.
And maybe we talk about what'swhat we what we mentioned a
little bit earlier and and doingstuff where where guys start to

(01:05:42):
to get used to their physicalityand and how to do that sometime
in the future as as well.
I know it's something like ifyou guys want to jump on that
right away, get involved, likefully involved in Dallas'
community because they're doingthat on a on a regular basis and
talking about that stuff.
And then, man, you've got theyou've got the master guru here

(01:06:03):
that's you know standing thereholding your hand while you're
doing it in the field.
Like that's why you know I'mgoing big hunt, big, big game
hunting.
There's a difference.
Like, if you go somewhere andyou find a guide that's local to
the area, you have a much higherprobability of having success,
right?
That's not what that's not whatI'm doing.

(01:06:23):
Like, I'm I'm out, I'm searchingon my own, I'm figuring out my
buddy.
Like, we're doing that.
But just know your probabilityof what your whatever your
intention is, guys, increases ifyou get involved with a coach
like Dallas, and then youimmerse yourself in that with
other guys that are goingthrough it, you're gonna have
success rates that that areexponentially higher than than

(01:06:46):
just trying to figure it out onyour own.
So, and that's a plug for forcoaching in general.
And and and dads uh who arelistening and are going through
a divorce or post-divorce, thedivorced advocates, what we've
what we've what I've created andfounded as as well to help you
to understand dynamics not onlyaround dating, but co-parenting,

(01:07:06):
uh, dealing with your kiddos,dealing with all the the complex
that the complexity of uh oflife post-divorce.
And you can check that out atthedivorced advocate.com.
So, Dallas, man, always apleasure.
Lots of pearls.
I appreciate it.
Have a terrific week, and uh,we'll pick this up again next
week.

(01:07:27):
Thank you, Jude.
Yeah, see you next week.