I Saw the Devil (Movie) / Ep. 80

On Episode 80 of the Daebak K-Rambles Podcast, Jess and friend Caitlin from NoSleep4Dramas Blog & Podcast finish off Spooky SZN 2024 with a review of I Saw the Devil (2010), starring Lee Byung-hun and Choi Min-sik.

Jess and Caitlin discuss this unsettling and depraved movie, talking through the director, writer, cast, and performances, the cat and mouse storyline, the true crime that inspired the movie (shout out to Mimi Mizicko from Korean True Crime Podcast!), slightly different takes on the final scene, thoughts on the perhaps the tone-deaf revenge, fun facts, and more!

**Trigger warning: This episode and show contains content about violence, murder, and sexual assault.

GUEST: Caitlin

• NoSleep4Dramas Podcast: Available on Spotify, Google, Apple

• Website: nosleep4dramas.com

• Instagram: @nosleep4dramas

• Twitter: @NoSleep4Dramas2 – Caitlin (ALL THE DRAMAS)

• TikTok: @nosleep4dramas

Intro Music Credit: “Golden Coconut Club” by Tearliner, from the Cheese in the Trap OST. Used with permission from the artist.

Rate and subscribe on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, follow us on all the socials, and be sure to let us know what you want to see in Season 6!

Episode Transcript

(00:19):
I'm Jessica and this is Tippa K Rambles, where a couple of
friends review Korean dramas andwe are on the last episode of
Spooky Season. Yay.
And for this episode, I'm joinedby my friend Caitlin from the No
Sleep for Dramas blog and podcast.
How are you, Caitlin? Hello, I'm happy to be here.

(00:39):
I know you are because you are my crime friend, my crime and
thriller Gurley. And when I said I was doing a
spooky season, you were like, yes, you rang, you called.
Yep, absolutely yes. So we are going to be covering
the movie I Saw the Devil and I,yeah, I gave a list of movies

(01:05):
and you were like, let's do I saw the Devil.
Because I'll tell you why I saidthat.
Because I watched this earlier this year for the first time,
and then I saw it on your list and I was like, OK, well, I
watched it early this year. I have to do it.
Perfect. But also, I watched this because

(01:25):
of our favorite crime podcast and she talked about this show.
And so it was like, well, I needto check out this movie now that
our crime podcast talked about it and reference that this
actual crime, yeah, was reflected in this movie.
And like, this movie was based off of this actual killer I was
talking about in this episode. So I was like, oh, OK, I need to

(01:48):
go watch this movie now. Full circle moment where we both
listen to Korean true crime podcast.
We love Mimi Mzico, and so shoutout to her and her wonderful
podcast. And so we both listened to this
episode about this true crime that happened in Korea.
And so they created this terrifying media for us to

(02:11):
consume that is loosely based onthis crime.
And here we are several months later having watched this movie,
this awful, awful movie. So we're going to start.
We're going to talk about it. You know that.
This is a classic crime movie inKorea.
Like you go to any list that haslike best crime thriller movies

(02:37):
from Korea in the last 20 years.This is always on that list.
It's very well known. It's always on top and best of
less. So it wasn't a top and best of
in our estimations. We will tell you.

(02:58):
Very soon we'll let you know. We will tell you very soon, but
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(03:19):
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Once again, the Patreon is patreon.com/tabak Pod And shout
out to our patrons Janet, Curtis, Bale, CD, Alana, Grace,
Lorna, Adya, Sami, Caitlin, Julia, Michelle, Tanayi, Aaron,

(03:43):
Martel, Delphia, Maria, Kelly, and Sarah.
All right, thank you guys. And we're going to get into it.
We are going to talk about the movie I Saw the Devil, the IMDb
synopsis reads A secret agent exacts revenge on a serial
killer through a series of captures and releases.
I think that IMDb synopsis actually gave a lot away because

(04:07):
when I watched the movie I didn't know anything.
I I was like, I think this moviehas EBN in it and I just played
it again at like 1:00 in the morning.
I don't know why I am so brave in the wee hours of the morning,
but I played it months ago like earlier this year and was the

(04:32):
throne. It was shocking so I'll leave it
at that. I think this IMDb synopsis gives
too much weight because I walkedin blind.
But this movie was originally released August 12th, 2010.
It is 2 hours and 24 minutes long.
I think that's a little long. I will say it's a it's a little
long. It's a touch long, yeah.

(04:53):
The director and screenwriter isKim Dewun.
He has also directed things likeThe Age of Shadows, The Last
Stand, The Good The Bad, The Weird, A Bittersweet Life, A
Tale of Two Sisters, which I have also wanted to watch.
That's another horror movie. So a lot of things on this list

(05:14):
that, oh, Doctor Brain, the TV show.
Great show, by the way. I knew you had to watch.
It's on Apple TV if you want to know.
Yeah, yeah. So lots of things on Hills
filmography that are worth a watch.
It's Co written by Pakhun Dong. This guy has written The Witch
Part 1, The Subversion, as well as the sequel The Undressed New

(05:39):
World, The Tiger. So some movies, some really
interesting stuff. I haven't really watched much
else besides the Which part won the subversion?
Have you watched stuff on this list?
No. I I have, I'll let you know my
history when it comes to horror stuff.
I have not tried the Witch because I feel like I'm going to

(05:59):
be too scared. Oh, I don't know.
OK. I recommend going in to watch
the witch blind. Don't look up anything.
Just go in and say you can. I'll tell you it has Kim Dami
and Chebushi. Yeah.
That's all you need to know. Yeah.
All right. I just need to know if it's like
possession stuff or is it's likeserial killer crime.

(06:21):
No, it's not. Possession stuff, serial killer
crime stuff, I can handle that. Possession stuff, not so much.
No, it's not spiritual. OK.
All right, the cast for I Saw the Devil is Ivyungen.
He plays SU Hyun, the secret agent, Chem and Sheik plays
Zhang Kyung Chol, the serial killer.
And then we have some other players.

(06:42):
We got a couple older actors whoplay police officers or squad
chiefs, Jung Ku Kuan and Chun HoJin.
And then we have Chen Musong. Yes, that Chen Musong Musong.
He plays Teju and I will not be saying like what his character
is or does. And that's pretty much it.

(07:02):
I'm not going to say anybody else in the cast list.
It is. There are more players, but
they're kind of more like bit players or cameos, depending on
how you look at it. But I think we've come to the
end of that section. Caitlin, how do you feel about I
Saw the Devil? What are your thoughts SO?
I rated this a 7.5 out of 10. I wanted this to be better than

(07:28):
it was. The acting was brilliant.
It was really good. But they advertise this, at
least the trailers I saw before I watched this movie.
I'm not saying everything advertise this, but they
advertise this as like a cat andmouse movie.
So I went in there expecting a cat and mouse movie and it

(07:50):
really wasn't to me. It was very one sided even to
the end where he did like the Choi Min Sheikh's character sort
of took revenge at the end. But like it was still very one
sided because you're up against like a special agent secret
forces person who knows every torture method in the book

(08:13):
against your average citizen serial killer who is still
extremely violent and brutal butdoes not have the fighting
capabilities as your secret Asian guy.
So for me to advertise this as acat and mouse serial killer and
like The thing is too is like even if you have that set up and

(08:34):
you're up against like a soldiercombat heavy or like secret
agent person against your regular citizen, make the serial
killer extremely smart, like like and it's like a battle wits
and Braun or something. But that wasn't the case either.
It's like average citizen guy who is just really really

(08:57):
horrible killer, like really horrible human being up against
a secret agent who knows every torture method in the book and
has every gadget you can possibly think of.
And so to advertise this as a cat and mouse story I think was
bad advertisement because it wasextremely one sided when it came

(09:18):
to the chase and the IT was likethe secret agent was the cat and
he was basically playing with his prey the entire time.
And it was not an even cat and mouse story, which I love, which
is why I watched this movie. I totally understand where
you're coming from, but I also feel from a marketing

(09:39):
standpoint, audiences are a little a little bit stupid.
True. So if you try and sell it as
something other than cat and mouse, it's just the cat is
dominating most of the movie andthe mouse isn't getting away
necessarily at any point. I think that would confuse the

(10:00):
audience and maybe bar them fromwanting to watch the movie
because the at. Least or you can just like I
think in my mind it was like, well, just advertise as a
revenge story. Like don't advertise it as a cat
and mouse. Just say what it is, which is
it's a straight up revenge story.
I I'll go into like when it goesin the spoilers, I have some

(10:21):
questions about that, but it's straight up revenge.
It's not a cat and mouse. I see what you're saying.
You unlock something for me thatI first of all, Full disclosure,
I have no notes, I am just flying by the seat of my pants.
But something that you unlocked for me as you were talking was
on 1st watch, my first watch of this again I went in blind, had

(10:42):
no idea. I thought it was going to be
actually a spiritual. It's like some sort of religious
movie. Because of the title I saw the
Devil, or the English title I saw the Devil, right?
Yeah. So I was expecting some sort of
exorcism, some sort of like shaman or Catholicism to come
into play. That was not the case at all.

(11:04):
Second of all, the revenge aspect of the movie was
obviously very heavy-handed. That's the the bulk of the
movie. Is this extended 2 1/2 hour
revenge from Ebiungan's character, Torch him and
Sheikh's character. I think I had issues with the

(11:24):
fact that this man was trying toexact revenge, not on behalf of
his of the woman that was killed, right?
Right. It's like for him, yeah.
Because you, you took something away from me.
Like you, it wasn't necessarily like for her.

(11:48):
It's hard to explain this feeling but like it's almost
like she has nothing to do with it.
Yeah, which is why I wanted to pose the question like, who do
you think the devil is in the title?
Right. And that's the the question that
the movie poses to the audience is right amongst all of this
sadistic, horrifying violence that each character inflicts on

(12:15):
each other, on other characters,is it sanctioned enough where
you absolve Evo Gunn's characterof blame?
And you're like, I'm still OK with his revenge and he's not
the devil or he's lost his soul in the process of him doing this
revenge and he has become on parwith this devil that he's

(12:38):
chasing. Yeah.
It it's up to audience interpretation, it's totally up
to each individual person as youwatch it, what your own moral
compass is, what your own comfort level is, what the
violence may be with your own, how triggering the movie will be
for you. I personally I think he lost his

(13:02):
marbles. Oh yeah, like the entire movie
to me is him descending. He went too far, yeah.
Into this man that he became hisprey.
Yeah, he became the man that he was trying to exact revenge on.
And I am all for you're talking to a person who loves.

(13:23):
Sounds terrible, but I love violence and I am pretty
desensitized to a lot of stuff. This movie was was a step beyond
to that. It was really brutal.
It was extremely disgusting. And it it just as much as I

(13:43):
wanted to support Evan's character and his vigilante
justice, because I support vigilante justice in general.
Like for other media, I'm alwayslike, yeah, like, stick it to
him. In this case, he was definitely
taking on the mantle of being the same.
He was almost the same, right? The only difference between him

(14:06):
and Shaman Sheik, and I don't know if this is spoiler
territory or not, but we're I'm answering your question.
The only saving grace for Eben'scharacter is that he still had
some semblance of humanity by the end of the movie.
He had remorse. He had sadness.
He, he had, he felt some type ofway about the crimes, about the
situation that was created from his actions and Chim and Sheik,

(14:29):
the serial killer did not. He had no humanity.
He did not feel remorse. He was almost clinical in the
way that he exacted some of these violent, violent.
Actions. But at the same time, I would
argue to see the special agent was also clinical in that way
because that's he was trained todo it.

(14:53):
So but he was had one target like where is the?
Serial killer what I think was Evie Youngun's character
regretted doing it, but did he though?
I. Think, I mean walking down the
street at the end, I don't. I think he was relieved it was
done. I think it was really.
That differently. Yeah, you read that.

(15:15):
Glad that it happened and like the ending played out how he
wanted it to, but I don't think he regretted it.
Oh my God, we totally read the ending differently.
So you think it's relief he's crying out of?
Oh yeah. He's like I'm done with my
mission. I accomplished what I wanted.
I think he's crying out of, I mean, not saying he's not

(15:37):
relieved, but I think he's crying out of a a plethora of
emotions, one of them being likeregret because this whole thing
got way out of hand he couldn't control.
Oh no, I think he cried because he was like I finally got my
revenge. I now can mourn how I wanted to.
Oh my gosh, well, I don't. I don't disagree with you

(15:58):
though. Oh God, this is but it's very
ambiguous. It's so again.
It's up to interpretation. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Which is the thrill of like
watching it is. The way you come at it is not
wrong. The way however you watch it is
not wrong. There's not a wrong answer for

(16:20):
how you think these characters are feeling or if they're right
or wrong. It's not.
It's not. You can feel however you want to
feel. Right, because like for example,
with the title, you could see that both ways you can do like
OK, serial killer guy was is always, always confident, like

(16:43):
extremely confident. He's not going to get caught.
Then he meets his worst enemy, who's probably more, I wouldn't
say more brutal than him, but can be as brutal as he is, and
he has to. And he's like being chased by
this guy. It wasn't like an equal.
It wasn't like they were both kind of just living parallel.

(17:05):
No, he's the prey of this guy. So he saw the devil.
Or you can take it from a perspective of the secret agent
where he was not aware that thisdude is out there or like
blissfully unaware. And then he realizes this kind
of killer is out there in his home country, and he sees the

(17:27):
devil and now has to, I don't know, I want to say repent, but
it's not repent. Or it could be in the course of
his vigilante revenge quest, he sees the devil within.
Himself. Exactly.
Which I am inclined to believe that version of, right, the
interpretation. So it's like a vicious cycle

(17:49):
that he's discovered that he hasthis devilry within himself,
right? And it's scary.
Yeah. All right, so didn't mean to get
that deep and philosophical right off the bat, but this
movie, as we said before, is notfor everybody.
It is very hard to watch. It is not a slow burn either.

(18:13):
It gets going very fast like thefirst intro sequence will.
If you can't get past that, I don't think you will be able to
watch the rest of the movie. No, no, like I'll tell you one
thing Like I was, I think I talked about this in another, I
think it was Liliana's podcast that I recorded recently about

(18:34):
crime in general. Crime movies do not have the
censorship that the Korean dramas do.
So they are so much more violentand so much more like the show
more stuff, show more nakedness,show more weaponry, show more
violence in general. So if you have never seen a

(18:57):
crime movie versus a crime Korean drama, do not pick this
one as your first first go into crime movies.
Like DM me to ask. It's just like.
Taking an AP class when you've been in like remedial?
Yeah, it goes from zero to 100. I mean, like, you guys know me,

(19:20):
I can watch pretty much anythingwhen it comes to violence.
I'm very desensitized to it. This had me cringing when I
watched it earlier this year. Like, there's two specific
scenes in this movie that I was like, Oh my God.
And I've watched every single episode of Criminal Minds, so
like, and those get brutal. So that will tell you something

(19:44):
about how violent and how gory this movie is.
There's just so much that there's a lot of.
I remember saying that the serial killer displays almost
like a clinical sense of the waythat he enacts the violence is
almost clinical, but there's just a sense of like no pathos.

(20:05):
Right. Yeah.
When he does that. He doesn't have any empathy.
He doesn't. He doesn't think he'll ever get
caught until he does. He lives on the cusp of society,
so no one cares and no one has cared.
Like he's old. He's a older yeah person, so
he's been doing this for a really long time.

(20:26):
So I have some fun facts, and maybe it's a bit much to call
them fun facts at this point when we're talking about
something so terrible. I also have a fun fact.
But it's not really. Fun.
Why? Why didn't you say yours first?
So when we going back to the conversation of like the I saw
the devil thing, where one of the parts of him seeing the

(20:47):
devil is like him realizing thistype of killer is out there.
Yeah. Fun fact, the FBI says there's
25 to 50 active serial killers in the United States at one time
currently. 25 to 50 active serial killers now.

(21:10):
Right now. Yeah, right now, this year.
Are half of them truck drivers? Because I remember saying
something very well about the truck drivers being.
Could very well be. Like it was a system of they
were finding bodies along the major highways and then they
overlaid the map of the big truck drivers and the 18
Wheelers where they were going. And it was identical to the

(21:32):
routes. And they were just dumping the
bodies where they we're trucking.
And I was like, oh God, here we go.
Something everybody already knew, but.
Yeah, but yeah, so that's the statistic is like FBI says 25 to
50 serial killers are always active.
It's about. 25. To 50, and that's United States
alone. That's United States alone.

(21:54):
Like some of these countries. Other countries don't even want
to report that statistic to eventell people how many people they
have in their country. They don't want to know,
basically. So that's a statistic for you.
OK, well, my that's not a fun fact.
That's a disturbing fact. It's a disturbing fact.

(22:16):
All right, so my fun facts are alittle less morbid.
Maybe the Korean Media Rating Board.
We were talking about the ratingof the movie and cuts to the
movie. The Korean Media Rating Board
forced Kim Diwan, the director, to recut the film for its
theatrical release, objecting toits violent content.

(22:37):
Otherwise, the film would have gotten a restricted rating,
preventing any sort of release in theaters or on home video.
You're just shaking your head. You're like, Oh my God, like
what we got is crazy. The international cut did away
with a lot of sequences the director regarded as unnecessary
and added all the scenes banned by the Korean censor board.

(23:01):
Yet it's the Korean cut that runs longer than the
international one, which I foundreally interesting during the
shoot. And this is also like this next
one. I was like, I don't know why he
would. I've heard this.
I've heard this one. OK, during the shoot, Chairman
Chic, which is the serial killerin the movie, was so into

(23:23):
character that he got the idea of beating up a random stranger
who talked rudely to him in an elevator, only to realize he has
turned violent during the shoot and eventually freaking out.
Following the film's release, hemet a girl in the elevator who
freaked out and panicked seeing him having watched the film.
To calm her down, he told her. I don't kill people anymore, so

(23:45):
you don't need to be worried about me.
I'm human, not a killer. Again, I think I would have
taken that to my grave. I would not say.
I mean, it was I turned violent.There's been other actors who
have come out over the years whohave played extremely violent
serial killers in dramas and movies who say this exact thing.

(24:07):
Like they're like I it's extremely hard for me to get
over a role to get past that to,especially if they're a method
actor, so. I don't believe.
In nice acting, I don't yeah, I don't really either.
I don't really either. But like, it's this is not a
uncommon statement. I've heard this all the time
from people who've played violent serial killers in

(24:30):
dramas. I've heard this as well.
Because it takes them a little while to get out of the
character. And then sometimes they, like
have to, they like enter depression afterwards because
they're like, I cannot believe Ijust shot that scene and did all
that horrible stuff and now I need to go talk to a therapist.
Right. There's two stories that I
recall that have nothing at all to do.

(24:53):
One sort of has something to do with this movie and the other
one has nothing at all to do with it.
But it just goes to show that I feel like method acting is
bullshit. One has to do with Kristen
Stewart playing Bella Swan in Twilight.
So there's this. Because I used to be so into the

(25:13):
Twilight series, I remember reading this, I think it was an
interview that she did where shewas talking about having to let
go of Bella Swan after filming the first movie.
That she was so into it and she was so entrenched in the
character. And the only way that she could
let go of the character was basically driving back from

(25:34):
Washington back to LA or wherever she lived at the time,
I think in Bella's truck. So in that red pickup, that old
red pickup, she drove all the way back to LA and that that
drive basically released her from the confines of Bella
Swan's characterization. And I was like, I remember

(25:55):
reading that and being like, that's weird.
This was over a decade ago, likeright, Basically almost mid
2000s that I read this or saw this story.
And I was like, that's weird. Now I'd say get the fuck out of
here, bro. Like that is the stupidest thing
I've ever heard. Second of all, more recently,
Nicolas Cage played, I think, a serial killer in long legs,

(26:18):
which is a 2024 horrible so which I have yet to see.
I couldn't get out to see it this year.
And they asked him like, was it difficult getting out of
character, like getting in and out of the character and stuff
like that. And Nicholas Cage has been an
actor for a very long time. Nick Cage goes, no, it wasn't

(26:38):
difficult. Like, you just show up and you
do a job and you, you know, you find your spots that you get
into the character and you just,you don't take that home.
You don't like. He was like, no, it's not
difficult to cut. Get in and out of character.
Yeah, it's crazy. But no, I didn't have any
trouble taking anything. Like it was so funny to hear

(27:01):
this sort of seasoned actor talkabout getting into basically a
serial, another disturbing character.
And he was like, no, you just show up and do a job.
You're playing make believe and then you go home and eat like a
pop pocket. Like it's not a big deal.

(27:22):
So yeah, hearing this thing fromTim and Chica, I was like, well
it sounds like he was method acting and I think method act is
bullshit. So anyway, this is a long outro
to this one pack. Anyway, this movie marks Trim

(27:43):
and Sheik's second role as a serial killer, following 2005's
Lady Vengeance, known in the US as Lady Vengeance.
That is a Pak Chanuk movie that I watched I think one or two
years ago. And my review is up on the
Patreon feed because I did the whole Vengeance trilogy from Pak
Chanuk and I, I just recovered actually like last week from

(28:06):
doing that. And then the last one fact I
have is this movie and the Chaser from 2008 are loosely
based on murder events committedby the serial killer Yu Yong
Tol, also known as the Raincoat Killer from 2003 to 2004.
And that is the crime that we are referencing earlier.

(28:31):
Do you have more info on the Rainco killer that you care to
share or? Was the rainco killer the one
that the Netflix documentary that came out?
A couple. Years ago, yeah.
That's a great documentary, I highly recommend that if you
want to know more about that killer.
I I think it's actually called The Raincoat.
Killer it is. It is.

(28:52):
Yeah, yeah. That's if you want to know more
about that killer, go and watch that documentary.
I think it's very well done because it's not like one of
those things where this is what we did and this was what we
caught them. They're like they're they were
it was a fudged investigation. So the documentary also goes
into like, what went wrong? And they actually brought in

(29:15):
like, people who worked the caseand like now are retired or
whatever, whatever, or reportersor whatever.
So I thought they did a very good job in terms of having a
objective perspective when it came to reporting on the case
and like, what happened and whatwent wrong during the case.
Yeah, because they royally they did, they royally effed up.

(29:39):
Yeah, What really affected me was listening to the not the
testimony, but the interview from the female CSI who was on
the case, who was trying to get fingerprints from one of the
bodies to try and identify one of the victims.
And she was basically talking tothe victim and like, please,
like, let me try and get this fingerprint because it was so

(30:01):
decomposed at that point that they couldn't.
And she tried over and over and over and over again to get a
clean print. And finally she did and was able
to identify that victim. But it was her persistence and
the fact that she was a female CSI in the mid 2000, almost 20

(30:21):
years ago. And that was very male dominated
industry and it was affecting tohear her talk about the case and
how she approached it and seeingthe victims and stuff like that.
So I highly recommend watching The Raincoat Killer, which is on
Netflix. It's a Netflix documentary like
you said. And then obviously you can
listen to Korean True Crimes podcast episode on the same

(30:47):
topic. All right, what would you?
So you gave it 7 1/2 out of 10. What would that equate to in
five out of five Soulja bottles?I would say like 3, like just in
the middle, because it wasn't bad, it's just it wasn't what I

(31:08):
was expecting it to be. So I think I went in with
expectations and when those expectations weren't met, my
rating went down. See, I had no expectations.
So I feel like my rating was 4 four out of fives hold you
bottles. But again, I was a little bit.

(31:30):
Why did this story about all of these female victims and his
relation that was I'm not going to say who it was.
I'm trying to like keep less spoilers out of this section.
But you know, the females that were brutalized it, it ends up
not become, it's not about them,it's about these two men.

(31:53):
And I think that rubbed me the wrong way.
Yeah, yeah, 'cause they basically did what the serial
killer was doing to these women and that was dehumanizing them.
Like they weren't, they were, itdidn't matter.
They were plot points. They weren't, they weren't even
the fiance, like the fiance wasn't really like she was a

(32:13):
plot point at the beginning of this of the movie and that was
it, right? Never discussed again.
Right, like stepping stones for these men to have their little
battle. Yeah, even the father too.
Like it wasn't just the two mainpeople, it was the father also.
Almost like a pride thing. Like I can't believe they did.
Like this guy did this to us, even though I'm a cop and you're

(32:37):
a security guy. Yeah, all of them were too.
Pride it was. It was improving.
The serial killer. Like they were revelling and
angry at the irony of the fiancegetting brutalized and murdered
because of what they do for a living.
Exactly, and how important they are.

(32:58):
Yeah. And I don't think it's overt,
but it's there. Oh it, I mean it's there.
It's there. But then the first scene shows
so much in this movie. Well, not the first scene.
The 1st, the first crime scene. The first crime scene.
I mean, we'll talk about it, we'll talk about it and suppose

(33:20):
we'll start there. We'll start at the beginning.
But honestly, that's a huge reason of why my score is a
four. And also I think the movie is
just too long. Yeah, it's way too long.
It just keeps going. Yeah, so, but it's well done.
It looks great. I think it holds.
Up the acting is amazing, actingis amazing acting was great
it's. Got a lot of moral quandaries

(33:42):
What would you do? How would you handle this?
What if you you know what would how would you pass judgement on
EB Youngun's character? Because I think everybody is in
agreement like we should just burn the serial killer at the
stake, right? Yeah, no one's but.
That also is the way the story wanted you to think.

(34:03):
What does justice look like for you?
What does justice look like for you?
And I don't know if it's necessarily put him through the
justice system. My thing though is if this
wasn't the fiance, if because he's not a cop, the father was
but he's not. So if the serial killer did not

(34:24):
go after the fiance and it was just a random girl, yeah, this
movie never would have happened.Exactly.
And never would have like all the other.
Victims don't get exactly like he's not doing this on behalf of
like all of these women and and the women that he didn't kill
but raped or, or somehow brutalized.

(34:49):
And I I take issue with that. Like the motive, the intention
behind his. It's it's yeah, it's not clean,
right? It's muddy.
So yeah, anyway, 4 out of five, three out of five soldier
bottles. And we are going to talk more at
length about what the hell happens in this movie because

(35:10):
we've said like the basic inciting incident, but we
haven't exactly said what what he does in the in the first
sequence. And what is the cat and mouse
thing that happens throughout the movie, which really we
there's just so much that we haven't talked about.
So we'll talk about it in the spoilers section right after

(35:32):
this. The greatest trick, Houston, we
have a problem. I am the father.
I see dead people the devil everpulled.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain was
convincing the world you can't handle the truth.
He didn't exist. No, what's in the box?

(35:53):
OK, we're on the other side of spoilers.
We are going to spoil exactly what happens.
And I saw the devil. So if you want to preserve your
first watch, I feel like we've already spoiled some things,
like larger plot beats about themovie.
But really, we're gonna get intothe nitty gritty.
Here we go, Caitlin. Let's talk about this intro
sequence because. This so like the the real intro

(36:16):
sequence, like the car on the side of the road.
The car on the side of the. Road.
OK, OK, which it is. Disturbing on so many levels.
You see the fiance in the car and it's the camera is the point
of view of the serial killer, right?
Which automatically you're like,oh I've been in the car
throughout all of the intro credits with the serial killer

(36:37):
the whole time. Yep.
And I had no idea he was just driving on these snowy roads and
he you can see this little van that's off to the side of the
road stranded. She's waiting for a tow truck to
come and change her tire. And she's on the phone with Eben
Gun and she is as sweet as pie. But even the voice that she has

(37:00):
is like, I can't even describe it.
It is. It's not agile, but it's just
like this sweet little like voice that she has on the phone.
She's saying that she was visiting an orphanage earlier in
the day. She's saying, oh, if I ever have
children, I want to raise them out here in the countryside

(37:21):
where the air is fresh. And like, she's talking all this
shit right? And you're like, oh, my God,
this sweet girl. What the fuck is going to happen
to the sweet lady? Oh, you.
Immediately know what's going to.
Happen. You know what's going to happen
to her. Dark Rd.
No one's around, it's snowing and she has a flat tire.
Like equation for death right there.
She's. Going to die, she's going to

(37:42):
die. So the guy gets out of the car
and what's great is you don't see what the serial killer looks
like right away. You just see him like walk up to
the car, knock on the window. She lowers the window.
What does he want? He's like, hey, what's going on?
I say, you know, it's you're going to wait a long time for a
tow truck and all this stuff. And he goes to check on her,

(38:05):
the, I guess, tire that needs replacing.
And Eva Gun's telling her, oh, just wait for the tow truck,
like telling me it's fine, don'tworry about it.
It's when she hangs up the phonewith Eva Gun and the guy comes
back up to the front door. That's when you see him through
the window, his face through thewindow, checking her out.
Of the passenger seat. From SO.

(38:25):
It's like even like the camera angle, it's like you are looking
at them as if you are Pat like sitting in the passenger seat
for the rest of the scene even when you're looking out the
windshield after this too. So that's kind of like you're in
the car with, yes. And I'll tell you, the amount of
tension that is in this scene should be studied.

(38:50):
It is so good. It's great.
Well, I think part of the tension though is in this movie
does this really well is they know how to play with the
silences of the movie. Like they take the music out and
they either just have what's going on in, like the actions,

(39:10):
like the rustling in the snow orlike the dead silence that snow
make gives you. Like they took the music out of
this for this entire sequence until he starts attacking the
car. That's when the music comes back
in. So like you are watching this
from the passenger seat of this car, dead silent.

(39:31):
Just having this guy like havingthe perspective of the woman
sitting in the driver's seat, like what she hears for most of
the scene. So, like, you realize she didn't
hear the guy come walking back up to her car because there was
snow on the ground. She didn't hear him walking
around the other side of her car.
Like, that is brilliant. Like, what they do with the lack

(39:55):
of music in this movie is brilliant.
Yeah, it's. Unnerving.
Yeah. And what's terrifying as well is
that, you know, this is the the serial killer.
You know, this is a villain. He's driving a school bus.
He's driving like a little kids school bus, the kind that picks
up the little kindergarteners. In the city, right?

(40:18):
And this is the serial killer. And you're like, wait a minute,
wait a minute. You're telling me the serial
killer is the Ajashi that picks up the little elementary
schoolers and the preschoolers and the school bus?
Yep. Oh my God, it's diabolical.
So the moment when you see her get nervous, finally you see her

(40:39):
get nervous because you're like,where did he go?
And she turns on her high beams and he's fucking right there in
front of the car. Oh my God, The way I screamed,
the scream that I scrumped the first time I saw this movie.

(40:59):
And again, I was watching at like one 1:30 in the morning.
I could not be consoled. I was like all over.
I was tossing sheets. I was tossing pills.
It was I was a whole wreck. And he starts pounding on her
car, on the windows, on everything, trying to get to her
with this hammer, and he just starts hammering at her.

(41:24):
So pounding on her body, on her cranium, she's screaming she
can't get out the passenger. Like, well, we're talking about
violence in this movie. You see him hit like you see the
hammer hit her and blood go off of it like this movie is
violent. And he's not stopping.
He's not. Like he's not.
There's nothing that's going to stop this man from killing her.

(41:48):
So and the moment where she's looking up at him directly after
he's hit her a few times in the head, right?
And her alarmed eyes just looking at him and he hits her
one more time to knock her out. Yeah.
And then you finish the credits as he's dragging her body out
and you hear the vibrating of the phone and it's, it's done.

(42:11):
It's done. That's the intro I saw.
The double pops up on the screenand you're like well fuck.
Yeah, And like it's snowing. So like immediately, every time
I see this scene, I'm like, well, people are going to find
the car and see the blood and obviously.
There's an arrogance about the crime.
There's an arrogance, there's anextreme arrogance about the

(42:33):
killer all the time, the entire movie.
But also it's like one of those things where he came off to me
as a killer of like, he's not gonna stop until someone stops
him, whether that's killing him or arresting him.
He's not one of those killers that yeah, he just, he wouldn't,
he wouldn't have stopped like people.
He had to be stopped. It's not even just like a

(42:56):
conscious choice of like, he's going to go kill somebody every
five months. No, he likes doing it and he
does it well, and he's arrogant enough to leave whatever
evidence behind because he knowshe's gotten away with it so
long. Yep, Yep.
It's just just the worst kind ofperson.
He's like, almost like a narcissist like.

(43:17):
Yeah, he's a narcissist. Yeah, so he drags her body out.
You see him clinically looking at her body later, later in his
lair, and she's covered. She's completely naked, covered
in clear plastic, and she's still alive.
Yep. So barely alive, he's looking at

(43:39):
her body like, Oh yeah, you're cut.
You're. He says her body is kind of
soft, so this should be very easy.
And you're like, Oh my God, he'sgoing to chop her up.
Oh my God, again, more you're just more surprised.
Like what else could he possiblydo?
He's probably already raped her.He's he's taken off all of her

(43:59):
clothes. He's got this whole setup here.
He's got all these rusty ass knives that he's going to carve
her up with. And she weakly says, like,
please don't kill me, I'm pregnant.
What I love is she says, please don't kill me.
And he goes, why? Why not, right?
What's brutal is, you know, he'swhatever reason she's gonna

(44:23):
give, he's gonna kill her anyway.
But he takes the time to talk tohis victim and ask her why not?
What do you Why do you think I should not kill you?
Yeah, and honestly, this is a trope that happens in crime
stuff all the time, especially if the victim is a woman where
he'll she'll claim she's pregnant thinking that it will

(44:44):
enact some sympathy. And when it comes to the killer,
it never does. It never does unless it's a
killer. Like there's been some criminal
mind episodes where like the objective of the person who did
the kidnapping was not to kill the person, it was to impregnate
the person. So like, it was like, this is a
trope that happens when it comesto women victims all the time.

(45:08):
So like when I first was watching this and I was like,
she before she said it, I was like, she's going to say she's
pregnant, isn't she? Because between like, between
like talking in the car with thespecial agent, like.
Talking about, she went. I want to raise our kid out in
the countryside. I'm like, Oh no, Oh no.
Oh no, yeah, the foreshadowing was there.

(45:29):
Yeah. Shit.
So anyway. And then he just doesn't even
say anything. He just hacks off her arm or her
head I think it was. He beheads her.
At that point, well, I think it was the arm 1st and then it
eventually became everything. Yeah, he just did all the joints
basically. And again, without any like he

(45:50):
would be cleaning a warehouse that he worked at or anything,
his own house, cleaning the blood out off the floor, putting
all the water in The Dirty viscera into the sewer system
that he has down there. And like nothing like he has.
No, there's nothing behind his eyes when he's doing all this.

(46:13):
Yeah, in the middle of nowhere. He's like, not near
civilization. Yeah, and that is our serial
killer. We got our nice intro with the
serial killer. When they find her body is the
next really in your face impactful moment?
Because I think a few kids find her ear in a black plastic bag

(46:37):
out in a field. Yeah, triggering a whole police
investigation, which is a circus.
It's a chaos mess, like it's like a circus.
There's media there, there's CSIthere, there's cops there that
look like they don't know what they're doing.
They shouldn't be there. Like they're just there to look
important, yeah. And the minute they find

(47:01):
something, everybody rushes over, which is like the.
Entirety destroying the crime scene.
Destroying the crime scene, letting reporters come in,
letting any random cops trample everywhere.
You already set up a grid to search this river, and then the
minute somebody finds one body part, you abandoned anybody

(47:21):
part. It's not anybody part, but like,
you abandoned the grid that you built to not compromise
anything. And the minute they found one
body part, everybody runs to that thing.
It's like you're destroyed. Whatever.
Yeah. For the victims and this
particular victim, this body, Yeah.

(47:42):
Was astounding. Yeah.
Now, I will say she was a daughter of a 30 something year
detective, probably more than just a detective.
So everybody probably was like, I we need to help out with this
thing because he's extremely important.
But like even him, like granted,he was the father.

(48:02):
Yes, you are grieving and yeah, you're going to go find your
daughter who's dead and her bodyparts are in this field.
He just, like, abandons everything and just like, runs
into this mess and like, refuses.
He has like 5 people trying to hold them back saying you cannot
go in there. Yeah.

(48:24):
And it's just like, are you joking?
Are you kidding me? And then to top it all off,
because there's so many people in this scene, the person
carrying the body part right that already probably has been
compromised trips and the head falls out-of-the-box anyway and

(48:45):
becomes even more compromised. It I couldn't believe when they
when they dropped her head and it goes rolling out in front of
Ebunglin who showed up finally. I was like, this could not be
more traumatizing for the familymembers and him like the fiance
and it couldn't be more of a botched investigation to to get

(49:10):
justice for her. Like if they wanted to grab any
evidence, it would be long gone by the time it reached any
facility that was going to process this.
And it is an assault on the body.
I I found it like a a separate assault on the body.
Exactly. And sadly and sadly, I'm not

(49:31):
saying this is just Korea in olddays through history, this has
not an uncommon occurrence that has happened that like crime
scenes weren't taped off, right?People who weren't supposed to
be there stepped in and caused contamination.
People dropping thing like it's not uncommon this has happened

(49:53):
but it's just pure chaos at thiscrime scene.
So I mean, not to say that the acting wasn't good, the
cinematography wasn't great, them shooting at night and all
of the lights and everything, this crowd of people by the
river, it's really impressive, all that top notch.
But yeah, the implications of the scene and the way that it

(50:16):
hits US maybe as women as maybe it hits US differently, I think.
Oh yeah. So I was, I was like.
Oh my God. Like.
All of them being men. And literally everyone being
men. Like it was like over 100.
People there, yeah, at least over 100 people.
Throngs of men just crowding to take pictures and see that it

(50:38):
was like very exhibitionist. I, I was like disturbed by this
as well. If I wasn't disturbed by the
actual crime, I was disturbed bythe crime collection process.
After that is when you get that scene of the father and the
fiance and him saying, I'm so sorry to the fiance and I can't

(51:02):
believe this happened. I've been a cop for 30 years.
And I was like, what does that have to do?
Like, so you're immune from anything happening to you and
your family because you've been a cop for 30 years?
But that's the entire idea through the movie that
introduced that idea. That's the thing.
It was like that was a theme where these men.

(51:25):
They have a different kind of arrogance.
Yeah, both of them. Then the serial killer, right?
It's like I am a secret agent working for the government and
you're a cop, veteran of the force for 30 years.
And I can't believe my daughter was killed by a serial killer.
OK. Like, I guess you should get an
award. Like the greatest irony of all

(51:47):
time. Like I it was frustrating
because the only victim here is the women, the daughter.
Exactly, Yeah. Who really?
Like, was she supposed to hold up like her father's police
badge and be like, no, no, no, wait, my dad's a cop.
Like you can't do this. Like, I don't know.
Like it was the way that they were acting on the park bench,

(52:09):
talking to each other and sayingsorry to each other.
And I was like, why do you, Why are you saying sorry to each
other? What do you all got to be sorry
about anyway? It was highly upsetting.
And on 2nd watch I was more upset.
We go forward in time, everyone is telling Ibn to take off, work
to take off, more time to grieveand process.

(52:30):
And he's like no, I just need two weeks.
The two weeks in question are the rest of the movie.
I thought that was funny. I was like, yeah, both times.
I'm like, Yep, I just only need two weeks.
I'm like I. Just need two weeks right?
OK, gave himself a time timelinehere. 2 weeks to find out the
killer, track down the killer and fuck him up badly.

(52:53):
And at this point he doesn't even know anything about this
dude other than he killed my fiance.
Like doesn't know anything. And yet then you have a secret
agent who has all the resources in the world to track this dude
down. That is the start of this is not
a cat and mouse even playing field thing like at all.

(53:20):
Including you have a father-in-law that's a cop for
30 plus years who probably has connections in politics.
Everything you could possibly think of like that is what the
serial killer is up against. There's no way that's a level
playing field. The the dad gives him four guys.
He's like, these are the top suspects.
They've committed crimes like this before.

(53:41):
He goes systematically through like 2 guys.
I kind of thought that was a little bit funny how he goes
through the 1st 2 guys, he blowsthrough them.
Right. I thought he would go through
all three of the other guys before he got to our no.
But he the real serial killer isthe.
Third guy he never even has to go through the 4th guy but the I

(54:03):
think the guy he like crushes his balls or something after
he's he. Catches.
All these people basically were arrested for sexual crimes.
Sexual crimes and murder. Yeah, sexual crimes and murder.
So he took his revenge in terms of the sexual part because he
probably knows by now that his fiance was not only murdered and

(54:25):
cut up, but also sexually assaulted, yes as well.
So he brutalizes them. It's actually pretty satisfying
to see because once the first, the first guy especially, you
don't really see what happens tothe second guy that much.
He runs him over and then he like, but anyway, the first guy,
he catches him macerating to porn, cuts off his porn

(54:48):
connection and then he like likestarts beating on him and he's
questioning him. Like, do you recognize this?
And like has photos of the crimescene, right.
And he's like, no, like I don't know anything about that.
It's kind of funny. Then he beats he takes a wrench
and beats his balls. Yep.

(55:09):
And I thought, wow, I wonder howmany women who have been
sexually assaulted would love todo that.
But they give it to this, to Ebun to do right.
And what's crazy is that when that guy is in the hospital,
they're like, why did he turn himself in?
He was guilty of like the rape of some other person, the murder
of some other lady that they hadfound in the river.

(55:31):
Like it wasn't the right guy, but he had done other shit that
he was guilty of. So he turned himself in for the
other shit. Mainly because he wanted to get
away from the guy. Yeah, he wanted to get away
from. He wanted so he was like, OK,
jail is more safe than out here I guess.
Yes to out here with Eva again. So then we get to EB again,
finds the layer of our guy. Yep, which was honestly when I

(55:56):
first watched that it was surprising where it was located
'cause I didn't think it was be attached to the parents house.
I thought it'd be like, I didn'tthink it would be on the parents
property honestly. But that also plays in the fact
that this killer was very arrogant because you never see
the outside of where this layer is until EBN Young finds it.

(56:18):
So I assumed it was like in underground somewhere, like in a
cave, because he was in the low,like he was in the middle of
nowhere countryside. There could likely be a cave out
there, you know, So it's like tohave him.
You gave him too much credit. I know I did, but it's just like
the fact of like it just shows more more how arrogant this dude

(56:41):
is between keeping all of his trophies in one place, not even
hidden and as well as like literally just have to open his
closet door and that's his entrance to the layer, like all
within, I don't know, 15 feet ofhis family.
Rude. Yeah.

(57:01):
So rude. Yeah.
So he finds the ring, his fiance's ring, and all bets are
off. Now he's got to track this guy
down. I think he inserts the tracker,
makes him eat the tracker while he's unconscious because he
tracked him down to him about toassault another victim.

(57:23):
Well, that's when he does it. In the greenhouse is when he
puts. The he like knocks him
unconscious and makes him swallow the the tracker, right.
And again, here's where I was like, oh, he could just turn him
in now. He could just do something.
He could just beat him to death now.
No, no, no. This is when the cat and mouse
starts. Really not, but I mean it.

(57:45):
It does. But like it's not a like a pure
cat and mouse. It's just a cat playing with his
food. OK, but you know, you know what
I'm saying like. But yeah, but it also, it's like
if he had killed the guy there or turned him in, whatever he
was going to do, this is like obvious to state.
None of the rest of the movie would have happened.
I know. Which means the four or five

(58:07):
other people that ended up dyingafter the scene or being
assaulted after the scene would never have happened.
So it's like it just goes on to the point of like, this dude
doesn't care. Like is not exacting this
revenge in terms of his fiancee,let alone the rest of the
victims Because yeah, this serial killer goes on insulting

(58:30):
women for three more times, Two more times after.
This, yeah. Yeah.
What was so was there a time that you were like, I can't
believe they did this? I would have cut this out.
The bathroom scene, like I get why it needed to happen but like
I didn't understand why they needed to be violent after that.

(58:54):
Like why beat up the store attendant and the pharmacists?
Like that part of it, like the Ididn't understand that.
Like I understood why it needed to happen.
He needed to find the tracker. But like, I think that scene
could have played out very differently than how it did.
Was was that the time when he almost like sexually assaults

(59:18):
the nurse or? Was that No, that was the
second. So he went into the hospital as
to get patched up and that's when he did the nurse and then
that's when he be on took his Achilles heel out.
Yes, Oh God. But then and then he let him go
again after that. So this dude made this nurse do

(59:40):
a sexual act on him, let him go again after that.
And then he realized because this guy kept finding him.
So then we had the wooden house.Happened with the guy who ate
the flesh. Well, OK, so let's pause here
because we have to talk about the cannibal that's in this
movie. That I find it hilarious what?

(01:00:02):
The one thing I found funny is like this dude just had a string
of killers that he knew. Found.
And he found and then he let you.
Then he led the special Asian dude to them.
So this special Asian dude just haunted down all these serial
killers the entire movie even though it wasn't like he was
only hunting 1. But you're right, he was

(01:00:23):
tracking 1 serial killer and it led him to TE Moussong who ended
up being a cannibal and was eating raw human flesh out here
in the woods with his live in girlfriend.
And his victims in the basement.Victims in the basement.
And this is, I'm sorry, I have crazy eyes right now.

(01:00:45):
Like this is the part of the movie where I was like, whoa, I
thought this was crazy. This just went into another
stratosphere because honestly didn't expect that.
Did not expect that, No. And that's kind of when you get
the the the serial killer gets the idea that he's being tracked
somehow because the cannibal guyexplains.

(01:01:05):
I was like, no, dude, this dude,you're his prey.
Like, he is coming after you. He is not letting go.
You are arrogant and you are confident in this.
I'm telling you right now, you are going to lose, like, no
matter what. Yeah, And I find it hilarious.
Like he said, he said, He said he was laughing like he was

(01:01:26):
like, I'm laughing because this is hilarious.
Yeah. Yeah.
Tamusung. Oh my God, Like the whole thing,
honestly, if you think this movie stops at a certain point
and it can't get any worse, it just keeps blowing past the stop
signs. And the Tamusung character, the
whole takedown of that cannibalism operation that was

(01:01:49):
happening in the woods. Again, EBO Gun doesn't do this
out of like, any moral obligation to save the victims
that are in there. Or yeah, I should definitely be
taking out a cannibal hiding in the woods.
No, he's doing this to get to his quarry, to get to

(01:02:13):
Chimanzeeks. Like one of my favorite scenes
was right before this, when he before he got to the cannibal's
house was when he was in that cab.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which again, how does he keep
meeting all of these crazy people out here?
That killing. People 2 killers like a guy in a
two guys, one guy drives a cab, picks up unknowing visitors or

(01:02:36):
like patrons and there's a guy in the back and they two team
them and of course they pick up this dude thinking he's easy
prey because he's already injured.
The reason why I like this scenethough is how they shot it
because it's just a camera spinning around the car the
entire time to show. Cause eventually the car gets in

(01:02:56):
an accident because literally the serial killer guy just goes
ham on both of them and grabs a knife out of his sleeve and just
goes just takes him out like stabbing everywhere.
And it's just the camera going around and around and around and
eventually they crash into a tree and then he ends up at a
cannibal's house. That's the reason why I like the

(01:03:17):
scene is just the camera work, not necessarily him killing the
dude. Guys, I just can't believe we're
talking. It sounds like we're crazy
people, but the chain of events is He almost rapes this teenager
in a greenhouse. EB Young Gun takes him out,
knocks him unconscious and inserts the tracker.

(01:03:37):
Then he gets up, meets the two serial killer killers that are
in the taxi running this scam. No, no, he goes to the pharmacy
1st. Oh, that's when he goes.
He goes to the hospital first 'cause he tries to get his
injuries assessed and then he assaults the nurse and then the
special agent guy shows up again.

(01:03:58):
He's like what the fuck are you doing here?
Like what the hell? And then he patches him up again
and leaves him unconscious in the car to again chase him.
And so then the guy goes and picks up this taxi who he kills
again. And then he steals like their
clothes and whatever to get out of his clothes.

(01:04:20):
And then he walks or drives the taxi to the cannibals house and
a special Asian guy shows up again and he's like what the
hell, Like what the heck. Anyways, so we'll just skip to
the end of the movie where it's the jig is up.

(01:04:40):
Like the serial killer knows that he's being tracked.
He shits the tracker out and plants it on somebody else.
Right. He's free to go.
He figures out why, which victimthis guy is mad about.
Yeah. And he goes to the 30 year
veteran chief's house, the the first victim, the fiance's

(01:05:04):
father, he goes to that house. And this is when I was like, OK,
no, no, no, no, no, no, 'cause this whole cat and mouse, like
he had the opportunity, even when he had the opportunity to
take him down and kill him or torture him so many times,
right? Yeah.
And instead, he let this guy go.And now he's terrorizing

(01:05:25):
everybody around him and innocent people that had nothing
to do with the fiance or anything at all.
And he goes to the fiance's house and kills the younger
sister and almost puts the father in a body bag.
Yeah, yeah. Not only does he kill the

(01:05:45):
younger sister, he kidnaps the younger sister 1st and kills her
later. So then the family has to deal
with the fact that she might have been alive for a period of
time and then find her later. And it's like, this is what
we're talking about with the bench conversation is like dude,
what did you think was going to happen after you kept letting

(01:06:06):
him go? He was going to get his revenge
somehow. Right, he thought he could
control the. Situation exactly one of my
favorite scenes too in this movie is the special Asian dude
showing up at the house and likeplowing through the cops to get
to the front door. I'm like, dude, don't act, don't

(01:06:26):
act like all remorseful now. Like don't act sad now.
Like you're going to be grievingif you find out your
father-in-law soon to be father-in-law was dead in the
kitchen. Like he took out like 15 cops
trying to get to this front door.
And it's just like, and no one knew what he was, who he was.
Like the cops he was plowing through had no idea who this who

(01:06:48):
he was. It wasn't until he got to the
front door that he actually met a cop that knew who he was.
But it's just like, I just, I couldn't feel you can't or you
can't feel sympathy for this. I find it really hard to feel
sympathy for this secret agent at a point in this movie because

(01:07:09):
half of the movie was caused dueto him being arrogant that
nothing would happen to him and his family when he started on
this revenge path. And then you get to this scene
where the like his actions met consequences and I could not
feel sympathy for the guy. I was like, dude, you let this

(01:07:30):
dude go three times and torturedhim and did all this stuff.
This happened because of that. Like if you didn't kill him the
first time or lock him up somewhere and I don't know, slow
torture him like you should have, this wouldn't have
happened. And the same with the cop guy.

(01:07:50):
Like the cop guy, like this the sister was telling them stop
this. Like this is not going to bring
her back. This is not going to do
anything. Sanctioned by the dad.
Yeah, the dad helped out, Yeah. And now he has to live with the
consequences that his other daughter also died, he lost
because of. His daughters to the same serial

(01:08:11):
killer exactly for being a shithead.
Yeah, lucky with the sister we didn't see anything, but it
wasn't as brutal as like. But that wasn't the point.
No, that wasn't the point. That wasn't the point.
She was still taken and kidnapped and Oh my God, it was
this whole fucking thing. So the ending again, this is

(01:08:34):
like a culmination of all of theterrible, no good dirty acts
that each of them has done has culminated into even when sets
up this saw like contraption. Well, First off, another one of
my favorite scenes is when. Oh yeah, sure, the serial
killer. Was in the middle of the street

(01:08:56):
because eventually he killed hissister.
Oh, the cops. The cops.
Being so incompetent. Yeah, which is a Tropic crime
stuff, but the sister so the sister gets killed and the
serial killer basically is like OK, I basically exacted my
revenge. I'm ready to turn myself in,

(01:09:16):
quote UN quote, turn myself in. He's covered head and toe in
blood. Like, just covered.
Yeah, in a cop car. Like he drove a cop car to the
middle of the street, a busy St.and is standing there waving a
knife waiting for the cops to come and arrest him.
And I'm the entire time I'm like, OK, dude, you just killed

(01:09:39):
this dude's sister-in-law and brutally beat his father-in-law.
Why do you not think this dude is still going to hunt you down?
Like he also was extremely arrogant the entire movie, but
he also was egging him on at this point.
Yes. And so one of my favorite scenes
is this secret agent just like opening his driver side door,

(01:10:02):
putting, putting it into a wall.So the drop the door comes off
just driving at this man in the street, makes AUE, grabs the
guy, pulls him on his lap and drives away with his feet
hanging out the door. And the cops are like, what the
heck just happened? Oh my God.

(01:10:25):
And yeah, the cops were extremely slow.
Like they didn't want to move infor some reason.
I don't really know what happened.
Because Oh my God, a knife. Oh my God.
A serial killer waving a knife. Yeah, babes.
Yeah, so the secret Asian guy kidnaps a dude and basically the
leads to the very last standoff at the end of the movie where he

(01:10:48):
slowly tortures the man. Yeah, he puts him in this giant
saw like contraption that he like puts something in his mouth
so that if he lets it go it'll guillotine his head off.
Yeah, which was his own contraption.
The serial killer built it. He took him back to his own lair
and put him in his own contraption, and then he tied.

(01:11:11):
So we put one end of this rope in the dude's mouth.
He tied the other end to the door.
Called his family up. Called his family up saying like
hey want to come over for dinneror something.
I can't remember what he said. And apparently, the only sense
of shame that the serial killer had was toward his family.

(01:11:31):
Yeah. Who was?
I guess he was non contact. With Right, Yeah, 'cause the
grandfather's grandparents were raising his son, apparently,
yes. So he was not.
He was. It was like finally getting him
where it hurt. Yeah.
And of course, the serial killer, when his family shows

(01:11:51):
up, the serial killer who's stuck in this contraption, he's
screaming for his family to leave as best as he can with
that like gag thing that he has in his mouth that's he's holding
on to for dear life, biting downon so that he doesn't get
guillotine to death. Yeah, because if they open the
door, it will release the guillotine and chop his head
off. And he can't get away because

(01:12:12):
he's tied out. Like he can't run, he can't get
out. He cannot escape.
There's no escaping this. The family does manage to open
the door and that triggers the guillotine and his son and his
parents witness him get decapitated by his own machine

(01:12:32):
contraption in his lair. Yeah, while the secret agent is
just walking down the street laughing and crying and that's
the end of the movie. And he like left the the sound
thing. He left the tracker in the room
so he could hear everything thisdude was saying and pleading for

(01:12:55):
his family to not open the door and then hear the guillotine
like hit his neck and everything.
And the reaction afterwards, like he heard everything as he
walked down the street. Yeah, so it was reprehensible
and startling. I think the movie is supposed to
leave you extremely rattled, butit is open to interpretation.

(01:13:20):
The title, what does it mean? Who is the devil?
What does the end scene mean to you?
What does the end scene mean to you?
It is all open to interpretation.
There are no wrong answers. It will leave you feeling very
icky. Obviously there was trouble
getting this even to screen because of how gory and violent

(01:13:41):
it is. Yeah.
But that is the end of the movie, and I don't obviously to
have no notes. I've just been flying by the sea
of my pants here. Caitlin, is there anything else
you'd like to say about I Saw the Devil.
I did feel a little bit of Satanin this movie.
It was so, so much. There is so much in this.
Movie, yeah, it's brutal. And I mean, like, as I was

(01:14:05):
saying, there are a couple of scenes in this movie I even
cringed at like, the Achilles tendon cutting in the Doctor's
office. I was like, oh, OK.
And then in the last scene, the screwdriver to the cheek, I was
not expecting that. So when that happened, I was
like, oh, my God. Because you see it, You see it.

(01:14:26):
Those are like the two scenes that like, I really cringed at
because I was like, OK, I mean, they made it believable.
Whatever they did, those specialeffects, they made it believable
and they gross. Yeah, it was.
It was bad. It was really bad.
So yeah, this is a brutal movie.It's a lot of pain, a lot of

(01:14:49):
mania, a lot of obsession, and there's nothing really simple
about it. Yeah.
But one of the things like I found really ironic, which I
would like your take on is so atone point when the sister was
like trying to convince him to not do it anymore and she was on
the phone and she said the line revenge is for the movies and

(01:15:13):
then she ends up being part of arevenge plot.
I just found that sad. I found that really sad because.
She also says that none of this will bring her sister back.
Yeah, yeah. Which is a classic line that you
hear in a lot of. Exactly.
Crime movies especially, or where something happens to
somebody and then someone's on avengeance kick, it is very sad.

(01:15:35):
I don't think I expected her to be part of anything.
No, absolutely no, Not at all. She had such a small role and I
don't think she was part of the plan.
Like she came home during the. She just happened there.
She just happened to walk in there.
Yeah, yeah. That just goes to show the

(01:15:57):
impulsive nature of the serial killer and the cruel twist of
fate, Destiny, Inyon, whatever you want to call it in this
movie where of course the other female in the family gets fucked
over. Right.

(01:16:17):
I mean, if there was no sense ofcatharsis, there was no peace at
the end of this movie. None of this brought any healing
at all to any. Character whatsoever.
Well, even the other victims too.
It's like these. When he opened the trophy boxes
and you saw how many people, howmany trophies was in that, it's

(01:16:41):
like, OK, you killed this guy inthe middle of nowhere.
His family has no idea who did it, has no idea.
Like he was this type of person.So he they might find out after
finding him, but it's like you're not even getting justice
or providing that closure for any of the other victims

(01:17:04):
families who might not even knowwhere their daughter is.
Like it's just or even the ones who were still alive, like the
nurse and the student. That's what I was, yeah.
Didn't end up dead and so they have to deal with that for the
rest of their life. With that trauma and even the

(01:17:26):
stigma of, of because in Korea there's a horrible stigma, I
mean, everywhere, I would say, of sexual assault victims.
And it's so difficult for peopleto speak up about their
experiences and get justice. And not to mention the justice
system for sexual assault and rape victims in Korea being so

(01:17:46):
egregious and the punishments being so LAX and the burden of
proof being so high. It is unbelievable how the males
in the movie just run through every female like nothing.
Exactly. Yeah.
And that's the ironic thing. Like so from a coming from a

(01:18:08):
serial killer, you expect that because he doesn't see them as
human. He sees them as property.
He sees them as things, as meat.Like that is the perspective you
expect from him. You don't expect it from the
agent or the father until it happens.

(01:18:29):
And then you're like, OK, who's the better person here in this
movie? Right, there are no Is the hero
a real hero? Yeah, there's no good people in
this movie. No, no, it's just the whole of
the movie, the act of the vengeance and the the whole
revenge. It just tarnishes Ebengen's

(01:18:51):
character irrevocably. Yeah.
How scary do you think this movie is?
It's shocking. I mean, it is scary other than,
I mean, there was not that many jump scares other than the first
one, Yeah, of her turning on thehigh beams and he's right there.
Yeah. There's not traditional jump
scares in the movie, but I thinkthe content of it.

(01:19:12):
Is I think it's scary. It's deemed scary because it
could happen in real life, right?
Like it, it could happen. Like something like this could
happen. And I think that's what makes it
scary to some people. Serial killers in general.
That's what is scary. To people, yeah, there's an

(01:19:33):
element of this is based on a true crime.
Yeah. It is well documented,
especially if you start down therabbit hole of Korean true
crime. Well documented how the police
fuck up every single investigation.
Yeah. So this movie can transcend

(01:19:56):
torture porn and can transcend just being a grizzly horror
movie. And that's why I think it's
difficult to just sleep well at night after watching it because
there's an element of truth to it, right?
And there's an element of men just don't like, they fucking

(01:20:17):
hate women like they're, of course.
The undercurrent of misogyny in the movie?
Deeply unsettling. And it's real, right?
Yeah. In the real world.
In the real world, yeah. So a lot of elements of it will
not let you sleep well at night.No, not at all, and will make

(01:20:38):
you very uncomfortable when you're actually watching the
movie. Yeah.
Yes, so happy Halloween everybody.
And we with that, we are basically done with spooky
season 2024. Oh God.
So thank you so much for going on this really scary journey

(01:21:00):
with me. Caitlin, where can people find
you online in case they haven't listened to all the other
episodes with you on them? Well thank you for doing movie
stuff. I really want to do more movies
on my channel too because I feellike movies don't get the
attention that they deserve. I really like listening to your
other movie like reviews this season.

(01:21:22):
So you can find me on Instagram TikTok under no sleep for dramas
#4 dramas. And then I also have a podcast
called the No Sleep Number 4 dramas podcast, which you can
find on Spotify and Apple and Instagram.
I'm on Instagram under that samename if I didn't say.
Yes, please reach out to us if you want to talk further about

(01:21:44):
crime or a thriller or anything about that.
Caitlin is your go to for that, please.
And also, if you want to talk more about I saw the Devil,
we'll we'll reluctantly talk more about this movie with you,
but that's it. That's been our show.
I'm Jessica and this has been the Tabaki Rambles podcast.

(01:22:41):
The.