Pachinko (S2) / Ep. 85

Episode Transcript
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(00:19):
I'm Jessica and this is Tiba K Rambles, where a couple of
friends review Korean dramas andwe're back for another season 6
episode. We're going to review Pachinko
Season 2. For this episode, I'm joined by
Caitlin from No Sleeper Dramas Podcast.
Hello Caitlin, how are you doingtoday?
I'm good, I'm good. I'm very excited to talk about

(00:41):
Season 2. Because this ended up on the
Drama Trio wrap up episode on Tea and Soju podcast that we
did, this was tied with your number one drama of 2024.
And ironically, both of my number ones were American
produced dramas. Yeah, your typical Korean

(01:05):
produced or whatever produced, but yes, this was tied with #1.
So I was like, Caitlin, we got to get together, we got to do a
review on Season 2 of Pachinko because I did a review on Season
1-2, well, three years ago now, but two years ago in 2022.
And I remember immediately I pressed publish on that and then
I went on a vacation. So that's how I remember my

(01:28):
podcast episodes. I was like, oh, that came out
before this vacation. You can see I really love taking
my PTO. But so that episode featured the
ladies over on Crash Landed on Kdramas and they so graciously
joined me for that episode. It was really chaotic.
I was the only one who had not read the book, but the rest of
them had read the book. And so they had a very unique

(01:50):
different perspective than I did.
And on this go around, I was like, Caitlin, let's talk about
it because I know that you lovedit.
Absolutely. I know that you loved it and you
probably have a lot to say. You want to get off your chest
about Pachenko. I've stayed up till 2:30 in the
morning so watch it and we're prepped and ready.

(02:11):
On this thing I watched it whileit aired.
So I did not binge this but I watched it while it aired.
I binged it. I mean, story of my life, I I
binge it. But before we get into our deep
dive, if this is your first timelistening, go ahead and
subscribe on your favorite podcast app or on Apple podcast,
Spotify, Google podcast and manymore.

(02:32):
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(02:54):
involved and show your support. You can check out the page on
patreon.com/debakpad and shout out to our patrons Janet Curtis,
Bale, CD, Cindy, Alana, Grace, Lorna, Sammy, Caitlin, Julia #1,
Michelle, Tanayi, Marta, Delphia, Maria, Sarah, Julia #2
and Pam. Thank you guys so much.

(03:15):
All right, Are you ready? Are you?
Are you sat? Yeah.
Caitlin Yeah, I'm ready. I'm ready.
Bet. So here is the Google Wikipedia
synopsis that I edited down two years ago for Pachinko.
It is basically the same synopsis all right, it's just a
continuation of the story, but here it is.
Based on the New York Times bestselling novel of the same name

(03:37):
by author and journalist Min JinLi.
Pachinko is an American TV drama, a sweeping saga that
chronicles the hopes and dreams of a Korean immigrant family
across 4 generations as they leave their homeland in an
indomitable quest to survive andthrive.
Season 2 aired last year, 2024 from August to October.

(03:58):
Season 1 aired from March to April 2022 and both seasons or
each of the seasons is 8 episodes long.
The directors for this season are Leanne Wellam, Arvin Chen
and E Sangeel. They have each directed about 3
episodes. Leanne directed the 1st 2:00,

(04:20):
Arvind directed the next 3345 and Sangiel directed 6-7 and
eight. The showrunner saw series
creator is Suhyu. She has been a writer for The
Killing and she wrote Pachinko season 2 along with eight other
people per the IMDb. You can tell this was a writer's
room. The starring cast we have a lot

(04:42):
of returning actors. Kim Minha plays Sunja, Imanno
plays Hansu, Yunya Jung plays Sunja, the older Sunja, and Gina
plays Peck Solomon. There's a lot of cast members in
there in here. Like there's a 1989 cast,
there's a 1945 cast, and there'sjust so many people on this

(05:08):
roster that it would take us forever to kind of go through
everybody and what they've done before.
So did you recognize anybody from this cast or did you want
to talk about anybody in particular?
I think I heard that you're a Lehman Ho fan.
Of course, I mean, yeah, there'sa ton of people in this cast,
whether you're a like, obviouslyif you're AK drama watcher,

(05:30):
you're going to recognize a lot of people, like supporting lead
people. I mean, they pulled everybody in
pretty much, old and small. The actors who play the
children, you would recognize, the actors you play like sister
in But even like Yu Yun Jung on

(06:05):
she's been around forever, like forever.
And you would recognize her fromher movies.
I mean, she was. Did she?
I think she won the Oscar from the for Minati I think.
She yeah, I was about to say, I know she was nominated, but I'm
pretty sure she won the Oscar too for that movie, which is a
big accomplishment within itself.

(06:25):
So yeah, I mean, I I definitely recognize a ton of people just
from watching K dramas. Yeah, and Anna.
So why? Yeah, Anna.
So why I did not know her beforePachenko?
And then of course she was in Shogun and that she got a bunch
of Emmys and stuff for that and nominations well deserved,
Absolutely. And she should be getting awards

(06:47):
for this show as well. But I did not know her before
Shogun and Bachenko. I know she's done another movie
on Apple TV that I really want to earn a show that I really
want to watch. The monster one I can't remember
the name of. Godzilla.
It's a Godzilla thing, right? It's like Monarch, monarch,
something like that. I really want to watch that.

(07:09):
So she's in that. But I mean, you got the guy from
Kingdom, for example, the the gun runner guy from Kingdom.
You got Jung UN Che who's been in, I think she was with Eamon
Ho in King Eternal Monarch. I'm sorry, the guy.
I did not mean to laugh. Just straight up like King
Eternal monarch. All right?

(07:30):
No. Yeah, you.
Got no no song Hyun, the guy whoplays he was in the Love and the
big City movie today or this year in the.
Past year keeping good yeah he he's doing making the rounds and
I really like No Song Hyun. Yeah, me too.
He. Plays pick Issac or Isaac.
I guess is the equivalent English name, but yeah, he's

(07:55):
really heartbreaking. He's such a heartbreaking figure
in this show and I called him Reverend Hottie in the Season 1
review. I mean, you're not lying, no.
No, it's just like all came flooding back when I press play
on episode 1. I was like, where's Reverend
Hottie? All right, Kim.

(08:16):
The last person I'll point out is Kim Kong Wun, who plays Peck
Noah as a teenager or as a preteen or something.
He is pill Goo from When the Camellia Blooms.
And I was like, Oh my God, it's pill goo.
Tell me why I he will never outlive that child's role that

(08:38):
he did when the Camellia Blooms.When I saw him, I was like, Oh
my God, I'm getting old. I'm ancient because pill goo is
grown. It was hard, all right?
So I think the only fun fact that I have that's kind of
leftover from Season 1 is, according to The Hollywood

(09:00):
Reporter, the show has a budget comparable to The Crown, which
reportedly cost a hefty $13 million per episode.
I suspect it's that same budget or even more for this.
Season, yeah. It's, you know, prestige
television. Apple TV Plus is the platform
you can watch it on, and that's the distributor.

(09:21):
It's an original Apple TV Plus show.
Caitlin, what'd you think? Would you think of the show?
Oh, I absolutely loved it. The 55 Soulju bottles, Like I, I
literally had, I mean, I had little qualms with it, mostly
because I haven't read the book.So like, I didn't know what to
expect. I didn't know what was going to
happen. So I wasn't necessarily, like,

(09:45):
my qualms weren't necessarily with the acting or the story.
It was more of, God, this character made a horrible
decision, but it's what happenedapparently in the book, or I
mean, they did take liberties, but it wasn't necessarily
anything to do with the show, you know what I mean?
It was. Yeah.
So I absolutely loved it. I mean, when I when Season 1

(10:08):
aired, that was my top show of the year as well.
So it made perfect sense. Why Pachinko Season 2 was my top
show of 2024, along with Shogun,if anybody was wondering what it
was tied with. So I Yeah, And that's why like,
literally was my girl in 2024. But yeah, I I loved it just as

(10:31):
much as I did in season 1. I really actually was afraid I
wasn't going to like it as much as Season 1 because you know,
you always have those like worries of season twos might not
be like there's a term for that,you know, where the season twos
don't live up to season ones. And I can't remember what it's
called. But I was worried about that.

(10:52):
And I don't know why I was worried, because I had nothing
to worry about. Yeah, there's a pervasive curse
on season twos on multi season, especially Asian dramas, right,
Which historically have been limited series, as we call them
here in the US. You get a certain number of
episodes, it's a full story arc,and then that's it, you're done.

(11:15):
You'll see these actors in theirnext drama and you don't return
to the same story, the same world.
Pachinko is the ideal Season 2 because it had source material,
it was based on the book, and Season 1 did not cover the full
extent of what happens in the book.
So there's going to be more story to cover.

(11:37):
It's not like they're the seasonwas a success runaway success
and they green lit a season 2 when there is no source material
to back up the plot or the justify another season Shogun.
So I was not mad that Pachinko got a season 2 because I was

(11:59):
like OK Lord of the rings 2 towers.
It's continuation of the story, like not done.
So I was excited to come back tothis.
I wanted to watch this earlier in 2024 and didn't get around to
it. Then the holidays rolled around.
What who's going to watch anything around Christmas to New
Year's? And I really, really liked this

(12:21):
show. I, I thought it was another
excellent pachinko season and I loved the actors.
I, I didn't realize that I had missed them and miss these
characters and this type of storytelling until I press play
and I was like, I just like sinkinto my chair, you know what I'm
saying? Like it was sort of comforting.

(12:43):
This level of prestige television.
We do get it quite a bit here inthe US, but because we're often
watching K dramas, J dramas, Chinese dramas, we this type of
storytelling really appeals to the Western audience, right?
And it's sure it's made by AppleTV.
Plus it's got a lot of Western talent behind or, or even mixed

(13:07):
talent, right? You know, Asian American talent
behind the camera. I thought this show was
devastating. Like, everything about it is
just going to push you to think.And you know, we're products of
the Western education system. And so the US is like the hero
in every story. And of course, every country is

(13:29):
going to do the same thing and tell history from their
perspective. That's granted.
I'm not saying the US is unique in any way by doing that.
Right. But to see World War 2 from this
lens was very impactful. It was very moving.
Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
And I, I'll repeat what I said in Liliana's podcast when I was

(13:53):
explaining why I love this show.I do not think any other country
could have made the show. It would have, It would not have
been the same. It would have been just maybe
just as a impactful if like Japan had made it or Korea had
made it, but it would not have told the same story.

(14:16):
Especially with the World War 2 stuff, even like living the
future parts of this, because you said it was a multi
generation thing. So when you're dealing with the
older generations in the 80's, the present day, that type of
thing, that perspective of a foreigner living in another

(14:37):
country I think is uniquely told.
But I think it can't be told thesame from a American perspective
or Korean perspective or whatever.
Which I think is why I love thisshow too so much because you can
appreciate the story that is told from the American or the

(14:58):
Korean American or the Japanese American perspective and learn
so much from that. Especially because it is a multi
generation. So you do have that perspective
of Koreans living in Japan, viceversa.
Yeah. Americans living in Japan, like

(15:19):
a Korean American living in Japan like that is uniquely an
American perspective that I don't think Korea or Japan, if
they made this show, would be able to capture because it's a
different way of thinking when you are Asian American moving or
living in a foreign country. And I'm specifically talking

(15:40):
about like the future generations.
Like obviously when it's World War 2 or whatever, they aren't
Korean American. But even that perspective, I
don't think that same story would have been told in the same
way if it was done by Japanese production company.
Oh well. So there's a whole conversation
that we're not having about how Japan is not going to

(16:03):
acknowledge the crimes that weredone.
I mean, not that the US is also to blame for a lot of stuff, but
the Japanese government is really content to just not
address the atrocities that werecommitted during wartime.

(16:23):
And that's really tough to reconcile with that in 2025 and
be like all the good things about the culture, but the bad
things, they just, they're like,there are no bad things about
Japan. I don't even know if I'm making
any sense but like. You are, I mean to me you are.

(16:44):
OK. All right.
So the global gas lighting that I guess Japan really employs
today makes me think that a production of this magnitude
would not be sincere coming froma Japanese.
It probably wouldn't be made. Honestly, it probably wouldn't
be made in Japan at all. And there's some jabs to America

(17:09):
in Season 2. Exactly, absolutely.
Like what? That's, I think that's what I
loved about this show is like they try to be as authentic as
possible, showing these generations on what they went
through and what they are currently going through because
it's a present day thing too. I think it shows a level of
respect of trying to show the common person living in these

(17:32):
eras and these generations and what they're dealing with and
really showing that no matter the era, there is some
commonalities on what they're dealing with, with
discrimination or gender role orthat type of thing just centered
around this one family growing up.
And I, I loved that about it. And again, I think that was

(17:55):
uniquely something America can do just from the melting pot
that America is and the rich Asian American history America
has both for the good and the bad, obviously, because America
does have, as you said, we are not angels at all.
And I fully, fully agree with that.
So I just think this story couldnot have been told as beautiful

(18:19):
and as impactful as it has been from anybody else.
I think there's something very special about it and something
very impactful that I don't think would have had the same
impact anywhere else. You mentioned generational
trauma and this tying generations together right

(18:40):
between Sunja leaving her home in Korea to forge a new life in
Japan all the way to the present.
Like everything is interconnected.
And I love this running theme throughout the show of that each
generation successively has it as as technology progresses and
economies progress and just the passage of time, each

(19:03):
generation, it doesn't have to go through what the previous
generation went through. But despite the older generation
seemingly feeling like they haveit so easy, and yes, we do have
it super easy compared to 2040, sixty years ago, each generation
has their struggles and it ties them together and binds them and

(19:25):
makes them see each other differently and recontextualize
how they feel about what they'regoing through.
And I think that's what that's amain storyline.
And when it comes to some of thefuture generation stories is
like some people are dealing with the fact that they are a
foreigner living in a country and they're trying to be more

(19:48):
Japanese or trying to be more like they don't like their home
culture. And I mean, I think that again,
coming back from America, I, I am white as can be.
So I obviously can't feel like this but I've heard stories of.
Asian Americans growing up hating that they're Korean or
hating that they're Japanese because of what they deal with

(20:11):
on a daily basis at school or work like discrimination stuff.
So it's interesting to see the complexity of that thought from
a like, I'm specifically talkingabout Solomon.
Yeah, Solomon. I think in season 2 it didn't
show as much because he started kind of appreciating his

(20:31):
culture. But in season 1 he was really,
really troubled with him being aKorean living in Japan and
wanting to be Japanese, but feeling guilty about that be
knowing or somewhat knowing. He learned more about the
history, but somewhat knowing the history between Japan and
Korea. I think that that was just

(20:52):
really impactful on the story. And I'm sure I'm, I'm, that's
what I've heard from other people who've watched the show
who are Asian American of like, that's my story.
That's my thing that I've had growing up, that I've had those
thoughts. I've had to deal with that.
Yeah, the racial discrimination aspect, which in the United
States, if you say racial discrimination like stop, drop

(21:14):
and roll, we see things in termsof black and white over here in
large part. But to see who we perceive to be
very similar cult like from the West, I'm like, oh, Japan and
Korea have a lot in common. And yes, that's due to their
history and their bad history ofcolonization and occupation,
right? But they're very near to each

(21:36):
other and to me. Like you can boil it down to
some commonalities between the cultures, but to see them go
deeper and really showcase this racial discrimination in the
80s, just 40 years removed from the war and the proceeding war,
which was the Korean War, it's pretty harsh.

(22:00):
I, I feel like we're kind of tranquilized over here to this
nuanced struggle of racial discrimination and how it
appears in Japan. And you know, sometimes it's
overt, sometimes it's really subtle in this time period
again, which I love that they said it in the 80s and, and

(22:21):
sure, like you can do the math and be like, OK, the grandchild
of Sunjai should be of age around this time in the 80s.
But the 80s were such a like, I think of the 80s and I'm like,
what a prosperous time, right? Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, Yeah. In Japan as well as America,
there was, it was economic boom.Yeah, in both.

(22:45):
So I like that this Solomon character is difficult, right?
Like he is a yummy. Yeah, He wants to be successful
in the corporate world in real estate, and he's not.
Ethical right? Absolutely.
He's kind of unlikable. Yeah, Oh yeah, I mean,

(23:08):
especially in season 1. But yes, definitely he's he's a
weasel. Yeah, he's a weasel.
And then you're like, but I wantto like him because he is facing
these insurmountable odds of trying to make it as a Korean in
a Japanese business world. And then juxtaposing not with
what you see with his grandma's story, You're like, the weight

(23:31):
of history is weighing him down.It's not on his side.
And so you just kind of feel a little helpless.
And I would say my one criticismis that I personally, with my B
brain, had trouble figuring out who people were in the 80s in
that timeline. I was a little bit struggling
with who is Yoshi? And like, what does that person

(23:54):
do? Were they in Season 1?
And I didn't remember a lot of detail from Season 1.
So I was really struggling with the business side of what
Solomon was doing. Like I got the broad strikes,
but I was kind of like, Bo, who is this person?
Are they yakuza? I was like kind of lost a lot of

(24:14):
the time. Yeah.
But overall, personally, the 1940s were captivating.
Oh yeah, that part of the. Story.
Was so transporting and maybe it's because I like a period
piece and like the 80s is not. To me.
The 80s is not as much of A period piece as something said
in the 40s during World War 2. But yeah, I gravitated more

(24:39):
towards Sunja's story, where she's coming from as a mother
and these struggles, specifically being a mother and
being the main breadwinner and doing a lot of traditionally
masculine things like putting food on the table and paying
bills and paying off debt from male characters.

(25:00):
And she's got so much on her plate.
Solomon comes across as very ungrateful a lot of the time.
So these two characters I've gravitated more towards.
Sonja Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think this was part of
the thing when it came to the generational trauma.

(25:21):
It was very clear Sonja did not talk about her past at all.
And so of course, he has no ideafor the most part what she went
through. So of course he's ungrateful.
Of course he has no idea. And I don't think he cares to
know. That's the thing.
I don't think he cares to know. And maybe he knew a little bit

(25:41):
in terms of like his education or something.
But again, he grew up in Japan. How much of an education from a
Korean perspective would that be?
You know, and we got a thing of that with some of the 1940s
education scenes with the kids. Yeah.
I mean, I don't think he didn't have the knowledge to have
sympathy for. But I also, I don't think he

(26:03):
cared enough to have sympathy for that because he was, he was,
he's very selfish. He's a selfish character.
He cares about me, myself and I and I think that a huge part of
this entire story is him connecting more with his Korean
culture and gaining some of thatsympathy.

(26:24):
But it, I mean, he still has a long way to go.
I mean in season 1 he had a lot of he made a lot of improvement,
but in season 2 he still was hisselfish person and then he
learned more. To that end, I would say I also
like this running theme of revenge.
And do you forgive someone who wronged you even though they

(26:48):
don't deserve it? I mean, they haven't asked for
forgiveness, right? Or even if they have, why would
you grant them that forgiveness so easily without kind of like
making them work for? But that's a whole concept.
That's a whole thing of forgiveness.
It's not going to make sense juxtaposing that with Solomon,
who is actively going for revenge.
Yeah, I mean, he got fired, and now he wants to stick it to the

(27:12):
man. And he goes about it in a very
weaselly way until his grandmother steps in.
And this is like, dude, you're Korean.
You have to think about this a little.
Which, I mean, he still gets hisrevenge.
He's still. He's still, in a way.

(27:33):
I've always supported revenge revenge stories.
I love them, I think they're incredibly entertaining.
But this really convicts you as a person who is supportive of
revenge. Yeah.
Because the what is the benefit to the person exacting the
revenge? Like it's very corrosive to that

(27:56):
person, to their spirit, to their moral code.
To their life. I mean, he, he, he lost
everything in the name of revenge.
And yeah, you have to think, wasit worth it?
Is it worth it? Exactly.
Is it worth? It to do all this for hate the

(28:17):
older generation and especially Issac that character Reverend
Hottie. That lesson that he teaches them
early on in the show is consequential.
And, you know, it was kind of flagrant, like, right, Right in
your face. Like, it's very remarkable.
And it's foreshadowing, right? Like what?

(28:37):
What choices will future generations make?
Did he sow that seed on fertile ground?
Right. Are the kids going to really
take that to heart? Yeah.
So just gifted storytelling throughout.
Absolutely. I I did not read the book even
in the two years since season 1 came out.
Same. Sorry.
Sorry, but before we go into thespoiler section I want to say

(29:00):
like we are appraising this based on the show, what we saw
on screen and how it made us feel and react.
And really the book has not at this point.
This is a totally different text.
Oh yeah, yeah. And I know that the Season 1
review that I did on the Tebuc feed, all of my guests had read

(29:22):
the book and they had different things to say, had different
complaints about the show. And that's fine.
That's not our perspective. Absolutely.
Yeah. You know, I think we can
evaluate the show based on what what we saw on screen, what was
delivered to us and not based on, oh, but the book was this.
Oh, but in the book, it was likethis.

(29:42):
Oh, I didn't like because the book was.
We're not doing that in this Season 2 review, so just want to
manage expectations here. If you read the book and you
want to hear someone's perspective, there's certainly
got to be a podcast out there for you.
This Season 2 review is not it. So that being said, is there
anything else you want to say inthe non spoiler section before

(30:04):
we give our soju bottle ratings and move to the spoiler section?
No, I'm good even though I already gave my soulju.
OK, yeah, five. OK, mine I'll give.
I'll give 4/4 and 1/2 only because again, I was a little
bit lost in the 80s with the business aspect and what was

(30:25):
going on and who some of these characters are.
I like couldn't keep it straightin my head.
And it might have something to do with they have different
names, like multiple names I should say.
And that was throwing me. And I also thought even though
the cinematography is beautiful,I love it.
I thought it was too low light, which is similar to season 1.
The aesthetic is just carried through.

(30:47):
But I still thought it was too dark in a lot of places.
So I lighted up a little more. Like personally, again, this is
all personal. This is all subjective.
But those are my couple of nitpicks.
And then we can get into the spoiler section right after
this. Excuse me, Bora, Go.

(31:07):
I can't tell. I can't tell you know.
I have no Jingle. Oh, sorry.
Swear discussing shots. What?
All right, we're on the other side of spoilers, so we're going
to spoil what happens in Season 2 of Pachinko.
I think I want to start just in episode 1 because they hit you

(31:29):
upside the head with it's World War 2 and the text is shown on
screen as being World War 2 in English.
And then underneath they have the Korean and Japanese
translation cycling through. But I thought it was intentional
that they kept the English on screen towering over the other
languages. The other translations I don't

(31:50):
know. I found it very poetic because
of the US planes flying overheadand how the US ended the war
with controversial but a strong response.
The A bombs and it's towering over the Koreans and Japanese.
That to me was them saying that even just in the text that
America is going to like tower over these two nations.

(32:13):
And I thought just from the gecko I was like, well here we
go. Like great poetic side of cars
and stuff. I love how we see more
differences between the two brothers.
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah.
So these two and this is also inthe 40s, right?

(32:34):
You see them in school and they're getting bullied and the
younger one was last two is audacious and proud to be Korean
and he's explaining to the classwhy he's eating what he's
eating, his stinky food quote UNquote.
And Esac is more passive, more non confrontational, preferring

(32:57):
to ignore the haters who accuse him of living with pigs.
I'm sorry Noah. I mean Noah Esac is not a Noah.
So it's Noah and Musasha alreadygetting it wrong.
You see, there's too many names.Noah is talking to the teacher.
The teacher says anger comes from feeling so powerless here.

(33:18):
And basically the best way to not be bullied is to not be
Korean, even if only in his imagination.
And I was like, that's a wild thing to say.
Like, he's just like, you're always going to be bullied.
You're always going to be lesserbecause of who you are.
Your entire identity is at odds and the people here feel
powerless, so they're going to take it out on someone who's

(33:41):
less fortunate that they are. Yeah, and with the oncoming war,
that's just going to get worse. Yeah.
I loved his relationship with his teacher.
I mean that reveal was very impactful.
I don't think it happened in episode 1 but like the reveal of
the the storyline a lot in season 2 for Noah was him kind
of in parallel with Solomon fromseason 1 is dealing with the

(34:05):
fact that he's Korean living in Japan.
Obviously a different era, whatever, but the relationship
he has with his teacher given the reveal that his teacher is
also Korean, but you wouldn't know because his teacher changed
his name and basically changed his entire demeanor in a way.

(34:29):
I think that reveal was very impactful on Noah, which caused
the rest of his storyline in season 2, which broke my heart a
lot. Yeah, the only way you're going
to get a leg up is if you pretend to be Japanese.
You deny yourself. Right.
And I think he's, as you said, like he's very different from
his brother, where his brother obviously is getting bullied and

(34:54):
understands to an extent what that means and why they're
getting bullied. But he is still a kid.
He's still, I mean, he Noah is so much older than him.
So I think Noah is a dealing it with it longer than him
obviously in this World War Two time period, but BI think he's

(35:16):
just not. He still has that like innocence
about him of being a kid and still dealing with it, which
Noah obviously doesn't have any more.
They obviously deal with the bullying in a different way.
And you can see how much each generation and even between the
brothers who do have a large agegap between them and what is

(35:38):
that like 5-6 years or somethingbetween them.
Something like that, yeah. How they successively get more
shielded? Right.
From the real big picture and the negativity surrounding their
identity and their their race right?
And even just between them like right the younger 1 is like I

(35:59):
don't give a shit I am Korean and what of it doesn't really
grasp how pervasive and embeddedthis discrimination is, this
hatred is. Or even how if you meet the
wrong person you can get killed for just being Korean.
Like it? I don't think it has hit him
hard enough or he understands the magnitude of the hate of

(36:22):
being Korean in Japan at that time specifically.
And you shouldn't have like he'sa kid.
Like that's not something a kid should have to understand.
And I think also with Noah, it to an extent Noah because of
his, the what was your nickname,Reverend?
Hottie. I think also the fact that

(36:43):
Reverend Hottie has been gone for six years now, maybe I think
it's like 6 years. He's had to grow up, he's had to
raise his family. He's had to become like, to an
extent, the man of his householdin a way.
And I think that has also causedhim to grow up sooner than he

(37:04):
should have and made him realizesociety as it is, which I'm sure
Sunja did not want him to do. Like she wanted to shield them
from the atrocities of being Korean in Japan because she's
dealt with it. Yeah, you mentioned something
about him being the eldest and having all this responsibility.

(37:25):
That's also a through line throughout the story that the
eldest has all of these expectations and the
responsibility of caring for thefamily, and he gets preferential
treatment for even just them serving.
Who's gets served first at the dinner table?
It's Noah. Yeah.
And the little boy was actually like, he definitely picks up on

(37:49):
that. Yeah.
He picks up on the fact that they're not treated the same,
right? It is like a little on a global
scale. Younger siblings don't have the
same experience as elder siblings.
And there's always that joke of like, you know, the little
brother, the youngest, they are coddled.

(38:10):
That is here, too. Like, that's part of the whole
dynamic as well is that he's just younger.
He's the baby of the family. He's going to get more
privileges than the elder. Right.
Yeah. So I love the cultural subtext
that they keep calling attentionto It is that the elder

(38:31):
culturally is the caretaker of the family.
They're the ones that have to keep this thing going.
And the younger 1 does not have that same responsibility of
being the man of the House of taking care of mom in her old
age and so on and so forth. It is a a yoke that he has.
And he is so responsible and sensitive and feeling no way is

(38:57):
was actually this, you know, free spirit and more aggressive
and fun loving. And he's just very simple and
innocent. And yes, he's coddled, yes, he's
shielded and they just keep it going like throughout the show
and into when he's a teenager. Like he still doesn't have the

(39:17):
same demands as Noah. Well, and I think I think that
responsibility might have been on Noah again, things happen
where it's like if World War 2 never happened, maybe it would
have been different. If their father figure hadn't
been sent to prison, maybe it would have been different.
Like, there's so many circumstances that happened

(39:39):
between Season 1 and Season 2 that could have changed the
trajectory of his life, which makes it like even more sad in
terms of his life. But also like Sonja's family in
general. If you think about it, if one
thing hadn't happened, this thing wouldn't have happened,

(39:59):
you know, And it would have it for the better or worth, you
know, like if something worse would have come along if World
War 2 didn't happen or somethingand affected her family, you
know? And I think that that makes it
even more sad, is like it, the combination of things that have
happened in this family's life through the generations.
While impactful, I mean this family's story is overall a sad

(40:23):
story like especially the historical parts of it.
It was not a fun time for them living in Japan between World
War 2, the aftermath of World War 2, her life in season 1 and
becoming pregnant without getting married.
Like the the impact of that on her life.

(40:44):
Yeah, the scandal. Sonja's life has been extremely
hard, and that is a thorough line throughout the generations.
Yeah. Is that?
She that's something she kind ofwithout knowing it, without
wanting to, she passes that on. Right, exactly.
So let's talk about Lehman Hoe because we get a lot more of him

(41:05):
in Season 2 then did in season 1.
I feel he's basically like an arms dealer.
His father-in-law is the head ofthe Yakuza.
I don't even know, like it's really not spelled out in the
show exactly who the father-in-law is.
But to me, he's. Definitely Yakuza.

(41:27):
He's definitely right. I don't think he runs the entire
Yakuza, but like he's definitelya prominent figure in Yakuza.
OK, that's what I thought. That's that's what I gathered.
Because Lehman Hill is over here.
He's like an arms dealer or something.
He's supplying minerals and and metals to the Japanese
government so that they can makearms for the war effort.

(41:49):
And he's got a reputation for being vicious.
And look, I I don't understand why people were shipping Lee Min
Ho is Sanja. I don't either, not at all.
I mean, I get like, their chemistry, Yeah, they have
chemistry, sure. But like, sure, on this plain
simple thing, she said in Season2 multiple times, we can't be

(42:12):
together. I don't want to be with you in
so many words, so many times. And this.
Isn't one of those words like oh, but she really does want to
be with him and they can make ithappen and and there's a future
for them. No, no, no, no.
Like that is not the read that Ithink you should have on this.

(42:34):
And maybe it's because a lot of K drama girlies were watching
season 2. I think so.
I if whether you had read the book or not but I don't know if
there's a blinders here because it's it's Imano but like
probably I watched the show, binged it and could not fathom
shipping Imano with. Socha right, He's a.

(42:58):
Or Hansu. His character's name is Hansu.
Sorry, Hansu. Yeah, he's toxic.
He's toxic there. It's the type of character that
you love to hate. It's a guilty pleasure
character. Sure, sure, guilty pleasure
character. And I think a lot of people
might have been hoodwinked by the fact that he keeps helping
Sunja. But again, you got to dig a

(43:20):
little deeper than just like, oh, he's hoping he's a good
person. No, no, no.
Yeah, that is not the He's already he groomed her in Season
1. She was a teenager.
Right. He was a fully grown man who
groomed a teenager, got her pregnant and then left her

(43:43):
because she would not be his mistress.
Yeah, he has kids and a wife back in Japan.
Kids and a wife back in Japan. That's a villain.
And his wife is the daughter of a major yakuza member.
Like he can't leave this family no at all.
Like there's no way this is evergoing to work.

(44:03):
The other thing I found really interesting, which I loved about
season 2 too, is not only are you getting discrimination with
Sunja's family, but you also arekind of getting an insight of
discrimination of him marrying into this prominent Japanese
family, which we've never. I don't, you can correct me if

(44:24):
I'm wrong. I don't think we've ever seen
his wife or kids in either season.
Correct. No, I don't think so.
OK, I don't Yeah, I I was tryingto think back on.
See, I don't think he, which is funny, hysterical, because you'd
think he'd help his wife and kids to get out of that area in
World War 2, but Nope, he goes running the Sunja.

(44:47):
I mean, but it's like, yeah. So I found it really interesting
that we even saw like the discrimination aspect within his
own storyline, which I don't know if it's in the book.
I mean, I've heard they've really, really added stuff to
his character between Season 1 and Season 2.
I do not know if that part is inthe book or not, but I found

(45:07):
that even. Like it's like one of those.
Yeah, it's like 1 of like he definitely married into his
family to survive like that. It was that was from season 1.
He did it to gain power, did it to survive.
And it's like no matter what youdo, no matter how high you rise,
you are still dealing. Like you could have the
strongest yakuza behind you, andbecause you married in their

(45:30):
family, you're still Korean. You're still dealing with the
discrimination these people haveagainst you.
I like that. I like that he is kept under
under foot right the whole time.He's in that family.
He's kind of a second class citizen.
And he owns the house. You know what I'm saying?

(45:51):
Like he runs the town. Yeah.
It's wild. I love that aspect where he is
constantly vying for power buying to be recognized.
And at this point, it's not necessarily about survival.
It's about ego. Yeah.
Because he knows he's going to eat.

(46:12):
Yeah. Right.
He knows where his next meal is coming from.
But despite being in bed with the yakuza, literally, he's
like, I need to assert myself. It's about these infractions on
his ego, and it's pretty fragile.
Like I think that. Oh, definitely.
He's also a villain because he'sa narcissist.

(46:34):
Yeah. The other thing I think it was
like there's two things also going off of your point too, is
like how could people ship them one and a big prominent one,
which I think people are kind offorgetting.
A prominent comment I saw throughout the show as it aired
is people wanted them to like get their happy ending.

(46:56):
And I'm like, and I'm like, guys, look at the present day.
Is she with him? Is she like married?
Is she together with anybody? Clearly, either he's dead or
they just didn't get together and he's nowhere to be found.

(47:16):
I mean, maybe he comes back later.
I don't know. I, I again, we didn't read the
book, but it's like even just from like the present day, you
can tell they don't have a happyending.
Like her entire life is not a happy ending.
I love when they do that in shows.
Yeah, You can see in the future generation, she, I mean, she's
content, but she has a lot of baggage.
She has a lot of history there that she is dealing with and

(47:38):
trauma that she's dealing with across the board.
And clearly she's not with Hansu.
So obviously that was not a thing.
Two though, in season 2, going back to like the Yakuza thing in
season 1, yeah, he was a problematic guy, like really
problematic. I feel like as you said, in

(47:59):
season 2 he is becomes a villain.
He is goes deeper into the crimesyndicate.
He kills his father-in-law at one point.
Yeah, because he had a common though.
He had it coming, obviously, buthe used the shadow of war to
hide to get his revenge. To stage a coup.

(48:19):
Yeah, to stage a coup, he used that.
He's an opportunistic narcissistand he has accepted his role in
this crime syndicate. The further the season goes
along. Sunja is never going to let her
children near that guy, like ever.
Or herself, if she has to say single for the rest of for life,

(48:42):
that is going to happen. That dude is descending into the
crime syndicate that he has created and was married into,
and he has accepted that role bythe end of.
Indeed, indeed, indeed. It is unfathomable for me to
watch season 2 and come out being like they could have made
it. I really I I couldn't wrap my

(49:05):
end around it, especially because of the conversation that
he has with the older brother who comes back from Nagasaki
Yoseb. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, OK, so.
That guy which we had to talk about, that whole.
We do. We do, yes.
But that guy, he Lehman Ho sits down with him.

(49:27):
I'm sorry Hansu, I keep saying Lehman Ho.
But I mean I'm sure people that are listening will just
understand the actors real names, especially his name.
But Hansu is there when this guywakes up, when Yosef wakes up
and he has this really crazy conversation with him, which is
really one sided because it's a lot of like posturing and and

(49:53):
power play between these two men.
And who is lording over this family?
Who is the head of the family and who has the right of way
here to make decisions about thefamily?
And how dare you be here and insert yourself into this family
when you've caused so much hurt and pain.

(50:14):
You're the one who impregnated Sunja.
You're the dad who's barely paying child support.
You know what I'm saying? He's paying it in a lump sum
just by saving their lives in World War 2, right?
Lumen Hill says. I was the one who saved you.
I saved so many of your family and not from any goodwill.
Sonja and Noah compelled me because they are mine.

(50:38):
And I like that quote because I think in his mind, he doesn't
care about them. He has no, he has no feelings
about them. They are property and they're an
extension of his bloodline. Yes, like that's what they are.
Yes, I cannot scream yes enough because you nailed it.

(50:59):
And if people were watching up to this point and shipping those
two characters, Sunja and Han SU, they should have gotten to
episode 5 when this happens between Han SU and Yosef and
been like, never mind, never mind.
Because again, and this was all you could read this on Lehman

(51:20):
Ho's performance and in all of the behind the scenes, so to
speak, of him with his father-in-law at home, how he
treats even the servants in the house.
You're like, he is an asshole. Yes, he's got a sob story.
Everybody's got a sob story. Right.
Yes, he's a victim of the times.Everybody's a victim of the

(51:42):
times. Yeah.
But how does he handle it? He's not righteous.
He has a motive. Self-serving.
He's selfish. He's selfish.
It's goes beyond survival. He's not doing anything out of
the goodness of his heart. Correct.
So crazy, crazy mentality on Lehman Ho and on people who are

(52:03):
shipping Lehman Ho's character. With Sunja, yeah.
Now I will say I'm a huge Eamon Hill fan, as we know.
I've I he was my first. I watched Boys Over Flowers.
That was how I got into it. I've seen most of his dramas.
I still love even though his character is horrible, I love

(52:24):
the fact that he took this role.It was one.
This is the role. Didn't he?
If I remember correctly, is likehis first role he had to
audition for in like 10 years orsomething.
Like really really long time. Yeah, I can't remember if the
story. Is he?
No, I think he did. They made him audition and he

(52:46):
could have chosen. OK, never mind.
I'm not going to audition. Don't want it that bad.
Not hurting for cash right now. Yeah.
Because I can't imagine how manyscripts come across his desk.
Oh yeah, definitely, definitely.But he's at the stage in his
career and in his fame where he can do anything great.
Exactly. He can do anything he wants, but

(53:08):
he chose to do pachinko and thisegotistical narcissist.
Horrible, man, horrible. And I think that was the plan.
I think he read the script and is like, this is a character
that I've never done because I'malways portrayed as the Prince.
Yeah, Or has a a clownish rich man.

(53:29):
And sure, this Hansu is rich, but there's so much depth there
and so much to latch on to. He's bamboozling people.
Evidently just by his mirror casting that.
Oh, he can't be that bad. It's Lehman Ho he's playing.
It's played by Lehman Ho, right?It's stunt casting.

(53:51):
Yeah, so I love, I love that he took his role because it's
definitely a role that I think expanded his acting chops and
also was fun for him to do because he's never done this
type of role before, like villain role before.
Also he looks really good in 1940s.

(54:12):
You have. You have to admit that I really
like that. Yeah, yeah.
Talking about World War Two, though, the cinematography when
it came to like the bombing and the the attack part of the 1940s
was amazing. It was heartbreaking, but it was

(54:32):
amazing. It was.
I like I I remember watching thetrailer.
Also side note, trailer Rose's. Cover of Coldplay.
Of Coldplay. Oh my God, like when the trailer
first aired and I was like OK, Irecognize this song.
Who is singing this song? What is this song?
I literally found like a someonehad put the song on YouTube

(54:57):
against pictures of Rose. It was like nothing special.
I probably listened to that video over and over because I I
became obsessed with that song. It's a good one.
It's really good. I really wish she would release
it, like actually release it or Pachinko would put.
I don't think Pachinko Season 2 either has released an OST album

(55:19):
yet or I don't think it was or it wasn't on their OST album, I
can't remember. But anyway, when they first
showed the scenes of war, like the little snippets they had in
the trailer of the World War 2 scenes, because the whole
trailer was like really calm andreally like going along with the
song. And then when as it rised in the

(55:42):
intensity, it would kind of do flashes of the World War twos
and the danger that was going togo and you could tell it was
going to be a completely different story than what it was
in Season 1. I was like, oh shit, like we are
in for a wild ride in Season 2. And I was excited for the World

(56:04):
War Two parts just because I wasintrigued by what kind of
perspective we were going to get.
And that's the thing I want to, I want to latch on to what you
said about perspective because Ihave lost track of how many
World War 2 movies the US has put out.
OK, it is done. It is beat to death.
I just feel like the US is obsessed.

(56:28):
Maybe, maybe Hollywood is obsessed with World War 2.
I totally understand that. It was a global tragedy.
Every so many countries were involved. the US, Pearl Harbor,
I get it. I get it.
There's a lot of fodder there for storytelling.
I have, Mcfuckin had it with World War 2 movies.

(56:48):
Yeah. So for this World War 2
portrayal to be so special and keep me engaged and show
something that I hadn't seen before, I'd love to see it.
Love to see it. Great job.
Great. Right.
Yeah, and the fact it was on ATVshow and not a movie was
impressive within itself. Yep.

(57:09):
So let's jump to 19. This is still episode 1.
We've been jumping a little bit around the episodes, but in
episode 1 we have this scene in 1989 of racial discrimination at
the bakery. And I just thought.
Oh my heart. Broke my heart but if only this
was 2024 it would have gone viral with a video.

(57:31):
But yeah you know this is beyondthe pale.
Like they just didn't. They assumed she was Korean
based on how she spoke Japanese over the phone right?
Fucked up with her cake that sheordered and was going to pay
full price for right? And they said, Oh well.
Exactly. Oh, well, you're Korean, learn

(57:52):
Japanese. I couldn't understand you over
the phone. And it was it Like it rocked me.
And of course, Solomon goes ape shit.
There's a crash out in the bakery.
He ends up saying to Sunja, his grandmother.
I can't live. Always feeling sorry for you.
Yeah, which I was just like, youbastard.

(58:15):
That was just like, seriously, you were getting mad at the
wrong person here. Two things.
Solomon is also an asshole, yes,but he's also touching on
something about how the current generation can't always live in
self pity and wallow in trauma that didn't happen to them.

(58:39):
Right. True, true.
So I understand where he was coming from, where he's like, I
can't always, we can't just livein the past and I can't always
live my life as if I'm struggling, right, because I'm
not. I mean, I think he also was
telling her you should have stuck up for yourself.

(58:59):
Exactly, exactly, because I can't always stick up for you,
right, You need to set boundaries.
It's been he's like it's been 40years, like get some gumption,
handle this business of being racially discriminated in
public, right, because this thisis ridiculous.

(59:20):
So I understand like on multipleit's it's a lot of facets to
this attitude that he's showing to his grandmother, which is
very disrespectful, super disrespectful.
Would I ever say that to my grandma?
No, but you know, the sentiment is understandable.

(59:40):
But yeah, don't say that to yourgrandparents.
And oh also in episode 1, even though get Sunja out of prison
because she got arrested in a raid on the black market, they
were going to start selling ricewine, which is illegal.
I guess there's a bit of a prohibition thing happening
here. I don't know what the details,
but he gets a route. He's known her whereabouts, had

(01:00:03):
his man Taylor for years, knew she was selling rice wine, knows
his son Noah's not applying himself at school.
That Noah's teacher is secretly Korean and pretending otherwise.
Full on soccer. Full on soccer.
Yeah, yeah. Episode 2 even though finally

(01:00:23):
gets E Sock out of jail. Oh my God, I bawled my eyes out.
This was. My first cry My first cry of
Pachinko was episode 2. Like ever.
Like even Season 1. Oh no, I think I cried in season
1. I can't remember where I.
Cried I'm about to say Oh my GodI sobbed in season 1 so but I
know but like. I didn't cry on episode 1 but

(01:00:44):
episode 2 of season 2 I cried. But like everything with E sock.
Oh, I was sobbing. I, like, couldn't catch my
breath. Yeah.
So I was trying so hard. I have the line from E Sock here
that says, you see, a person whois truly rich is not somebody
with money, but someone who is loved because Masashu.

(01:01:06):
Wow, did I say that right, Moses?
I'm struggling today. Anyway, the younger sibling, the
younger kid is saying, oh, you grew up in a in a big house with
lots of rooms, you know, lamenting the fact that they're
poor. And Isaac is like, I grew up in
a house with lots of rooms and it was a big house, but it I

(01:01:29):
don't miss the house. He misses the people inside it.
Important lesson, important lesson to teach a child.
And the other lesson that he teaches is for Noah, because
that motherfucking pastor turnedIsaac in to the authorities.

(01:01:50):
Look, I would have gotten now kind of Monte Cristo style.
Like I would have of course rocked that pastor.
Pastor who? Oh my God, he should have been
counting as these. But the face off in that cramped
room and how they filmed it by Lantern Isak is like, no way you
stay. I want you to see that this

(01:02:11):
whole encounter and the pastor saying, no, I didn't dislike
you, I despised you. I'm sorry.
It was so shocking. It was terrible to witness this
pure jealousy rolling off of this pastor, like he's just been
masquerading this whole time as if he's a good person and

(01:02:34):
saying, oh, love came easily to you, Isaac.
And I was abandoned by my parents.
And Pastor, you took me in. But I sense that he loved you
more. Like it was crazy work.
Yeah. Crazy inferiority complex.
And then I also just felt like so bad for Noah, too, because in

(01:02:57):
the six years that Esock was in prison, Noah really leaned on
this guy. He really wanted this dude to
become like a father figure to him.
Such a betrayal. And.
Such a betrayal of. Trust.
It was so bad. Yeah, because they cut to Noah
looking incredulous, looking at him with disdain after, and this

(01:03:20):
is especially after Pastor, who says that he prayed for him and
was hoping for his release, yadda yadda yadda.
And the pastor looks over at Noah, and Noah is like you son
of a bitch. Yeah, yeah, it was I and I, like
I, like we didn't. I did not see it coming either.

(01:03:41):
I just thought they would never reveal why Isaac was in prison.
Like I didn't really expect to find out.
And all of this is juxtaposed against 1989, so you have this
really unsatisfying forgiveness in the 40s and this unbelievable
grace that Esock extends to the pastor who doesn't deserve it.

(01:04:04):
Right. Yeah.
You have this juxtaposed against1989, where Solomon is in full
rage, wanting to get back at theman who did him wrong.
I'm like, this is powerful. This is great storytelling.
This is a plus. Plus, no notes.
Yeah, because he's talking with the old lady who refused to sell

(01:04:24):
her property from Season 1. So he goes to visit her.
He's talking about who am I to talk about it, I guess meaning
all of this stuff that's unsaid about the war years and about my
struggles. He says who am I to talk about
it? I have no idea what suffering
is. And he goes on to have this

(01:04:45):
pretty insightful pity party about he's how he's perceived by
this lady and his own grandmother Sunja, because he's
never been hungry. He can't even imagine being
hungry. He's not had to struggle.
His life is incredibly easy. And he says to the old lady, you
must despise me and think your suffering was all for this, for

(01:05:08):
this guy to have this cushy lifeand still not be satisfied.
And she rocks him back with she's lived a good life, a life
well lived, and she doesn't regret any of it.
Like in so much as you think she's wallowing and can't get
through the trauma of the past, she doesn't regret anything.

(01:05:31):
Right. I think that's the same
sentiment Sunja has, which her grandson doesn't think that.
Yeah, So this difference in the generations, I love juxtaposing
them against each other and the forgiveness versus the revenge
in the present day, I'm like. Oh, good shit.

(01:05:52):
Good shit, right? Yeah, I sobbed in that goodbye.
I saw it in the goodbye. It was so sad.
I like knew it was coming too. It's like one of those things
where you're like. He ain't gonna make it this.
Dude is gone. He's a goner.
I mean, you all know Hansu got him out of prison because he

(01:06:14):
knew he was going to die like. Oh yeah, Hansu only plucked him
out of prison because she wouldn't leave the city.
She wouldn't leave Osaka withouthim.
Yep. And so Hansu was like, damn, I
got to get this fool out. And yeah, even Hansu I don't
think would have restored him whole.
Oh, absolutely not. No, because he's so vile.

(01:06:36):
Yeah, yeah. And then of course, the second
that he's cremated, the sirens start and they have to get I.
Don't think the flames even reached his flesh.
I don't think so either and she refuses to leave until she has
those ashes. It's like she still refused to
leave. Like even even when he brought

(01:06:59):
him back and she was able to saygoodbye and we're still like
dragging her out of there. Yeah, but it goes to show how
much she respected, loved and honored him.
And I love that. So I feel like we could do like
30 minutes more on this. But here's the last thing that I
have in my notes for it is Isak says to both of his sons, which

(01:07:22):
he accepted Noah as his own son.Like genuinely thought of him as
his own son. And both of them, he tells them,
my son's a broken body with broken bones.
That is all I have to give to you.
But Even so, remember this, thatpastor's fate and ours is
tightly wound together. Noah, know that mercy isn't a

(01:07:43):
power, nor is it a reward. True mercy is acknowledging that
there's a price, a cost, that it's attached to survival.
But just remember this, no matter where you are, no matter
what, you are my sons and I am your father.
Tears already. I was crying.
Tears already then so and just says goodbye to Esau laying on

(01:08:05):
the ground. God, her last word.
I was literally like like that kind of crying, 'cause she goes
I. Could literally start crying.
I'm like thinking about, yeah, my God, she goes.
To be loved and to be honored bymy husband.
It has been everything to me. I was full on crying.
I was full on crying. He tells her to find somebody

(01:08:26):
else, find someone else because you have all this love to give.
And she was like, why would I dothat?
And honestly, like my own grandmother and grandfather on
my dad's side, they were marriedfor like 50 years and this reeks
of old school love, if that makes any sense.
Like my grandmother did not obviously remarry after 50

(01:08:49):
years, but I couldn't even fathom it either because they
were so connected at like a soullevel.
So these two, I mean, despite the circumstances of her, you
know, her having a child out of wedlock and stuff, he loved her
like he. Right, right.
Yeah. He loved her, she grew to love

(01:09:10):
him, and he was a solid, solid marriage.
Yeah, well, I mean, I think alsoin this scene, what really broke
me was his begging to live. Oh my God, stop.
I was. Just like, Oh my God, it was
like being stabbed in heart withlike every line of the scene
because it was. Just why he was like I but I

(01:09:31):
want to live and. Yeah, it was.
And there was no way I wouldn't.Would he have like sepsis?
I think. Yeah, like he was starved and
beaten and sepsis and like, all this stuff.
Like stuff. Yeah.
He just. I'm honestly surprised.
And maybe they did this in Season 1 and I just don't
remember. I'm honestly surprised we did

(01:09:52):
not get a scene of what he dealtwith in prison because we never
saw that. We kind of saw that with her a
little bit when in like when shewent to jail in Episode 1.
But I'm really surprised they didn't show that.
Maybe they just thought, like, we have enough atrocities to
show you. I don't.
Know, they get taken to the countryside.

(01:10:13):
They're living in a farmhouse, which honestly, by today's
standards, that's that's great. People love to live in
farmhouses. Oh yeah, yeah, Redone
farmhouses. That's trending.
So Sonja is very distressful of Hansu and Hansu keeps enticing
the boys like he's obviously trying to ingratiate himself,

(01:10:35):
give them fine things and teach them how to fly kite and all
this bullshit. She's not having any of it.
She's like, what do you want? Why are you here?
Stop doing this. And again, she's not wrong.
She's not wrong. This is all part of his agenda.
And again, not done out of goodwill.
Not done out of goodwill, but there's also her in the present

(01:10:57):
day in 1989 having this flirtation with this ragtime
barbershop looking Japanese grandpa feeding birds in the
park, saying her grandson was right to berate the bakery dude
for that. All that racial discrimination,
the bullshit he was talking. He was like, no, your grandson
was brave to have said all that and I agree with him and yadda

(01:11:20):
yadda yadda, man. Come to find out, that old man
was like a war criminal, that hehad this sordid past.
And I was like, oh. I felt so bad for her because it
was like they're cute together. Kind of got her to open up a
little bit and enjoy life a little bit and not be burdened

(01:11:44):
by the trauma that she's dealt with.
And then you throw that into themix and I'm like, I'm really
curious if that's in the book. I don't know if it is, but yeah,
I was like, oh damn, damn. And the overarching message of
that kind of slapping her in theface is that you really can't

(01:12:04):
forget the past, right? These are deep wounds.
There's no way they could have rebounded after she got that
news. And I'm on the fence about
whether her son Mosasu was in the wrong for doing the
investigation on him hiring thatPi to get all the dirt on the
old man. I'm like, I'm on the fence about

(01:12:26):
it. I'm on the fence about it
because she is. They seem to be very wealthy.
Right, right. So this old man, sure, I think
he did have ulterior motives in in approaching her.
Sure, it could have been pure, but I don't, I don't think
there's necessarily he could have really targeted her because
she's rich. Yeah, I don't think her youngest

(01:12:50):
son did it out of any type of. I'd want her to stay single.
I don't want. Her to like, I don't think he
would. I think he generally would like
the guy and wanted her to be happy.
But I think you're right. I think he was trying to protect
her and make sure you can see how vulnerable she is.

(01:13:12):
Yeah. Yeah, Like she.
Gave him money. When she gave the money, I was
like, oh. Yeah, I think she still has this
somewhat of an innocence about her.
And like, she's a little naive, yes, just like she was in season
1. I think that has just never left
her in a way. Yeah, in other aspects she
definitely has learned a lot. But I think they're, I think a

(01:13:34):
common thing with romance in general.
She's still naive about it and still very innocence within it.
Even though she's had E Sock andsomewhat even Ho's character.
I think she's still it is never she's never had a like a regular
relationship. Yeah, it's.
Not under to. This point, yeah, like, yeah, I

(01:13:57):
mean, granted, she could have one and we're not done with the
story, but like, yeah, she she'snever had a normal relationship.
Great point. So the barbershop murderer?
I'd say say barbershop cuz that's just how he's kind of
dressed most of the time. Yeah.
Yeah, You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
Yeah. Like, he seems like he's part of
a barbershop quartet. But yeah, anyway, that was

(01:14:19):
crazy. When they revealed that I was
like no. Yeah, 'cause they work together.
They were adorable together. But yeah, it yeah, it was.
Like I drew the line when you kept talking about, oh, I got I
don't got money. When she saw that he couldn't
pay for the Mexican food, which great date, great date idea,
have Mexican food and a couple of marks.

(01:14:40):
Absolutely sign me up. But damn, damn, so so sad.
Disappointing. There was an attraction in the
1940s between the auntie and thebodyguard.
Oh yeah, girl, I was lapping that up.
I was laughing. It up same same.

(01:15:00):
Because if I recall correctly, her husband was very machismo.
Oh yeah, definitely. And he?
Got mad at them for paying off his debt in season 1.
Yeah, he was bitching and moaning and sliding down the
walls because the ladies handledhis biz.
And I was like, oh he ain't. He ain't even a good man.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, they kind of had that
interaction a little bit in season one, but it got full

(01:15:23):
blown attraction in season 2. Like they had chemistry.
And yeah, you also hated her husband in this season, so that
didn't really. Help either?
Like, yeah, it's more than. 1. Taken to 11.
Yeah, at least in season 1 it's like, OK, he has some machismo.
He's definitely like of the times.

(01:15:45):
Like gender role type wise. Oh God I hated his character.
In Season 2. Absolutely did.
Granted to some extent I understand why, but on another
extent I'm like dude you could be dealing like get a therapist.
Like therapy? Talk about.
It we haven't talked about that part yet.

(01:16:05):
Noah. So we're getting to it.
But Noah has this moment where he lets the school bully go
because he was stealing eggs. And you can see that the fruit
of Isaac forgiving the pastor has taken root inside Noah and
he immediately forgives this kid.
The power was balance was switched in that moment.

(01:16:26):
He had every right to punish himfor not just bullying him in
school, but also for stealing from the family.
In these dire times where every little chicken egg is important,
it's it needs to be consumed by this family.
They own these chickens. And oh, man.
And then the bodyguard says you want your enemies to owe you,

(01:16:48):
not the other way around. Words to live by.
So episode 4, Lemon Hill brings Sonja's mom back from Korea
again. It's it's got a red herring.
Things that he's doing. The other thing is, is the
immediately when she stepped outof the car, I was like, well,
how long did that? Was that the plan?
Like how long did that take? Because obviously 1940 something

(01:17:13):
I'm like, you put her in a trunkon money or smuggling shift.
There's like no way. There's no way you got a
passenger ticket in World War 2.Yeah, well, she was saying about
the she was talking about the passage over and how the boat
was really small and they were crammed in there and stuff like
who the fuck knows how he brought her over in the
conditions, but the fact that heeven found her.

(01:17:36):
Well, yeah, found her. But also it was like did how
long was that the plan? Like how long did he was he
planning on bringing her over? Like because he obviously
couldn't do it. There's no way.
He was like, Oh my God, World War 2 broke out.
Let's bring her mother over it. There's no way.
He I know that the Americans just bond Osaka, but let's get

(01:17:56):
this old bag over here. Like when I see what you're
saying. Like, when did he say start the
search? Yeah.
Yeah. Or maybe he's never lost her.
Maybe. Maybe.
Yeah, maybe he's just. Rubbing fingers all over Korea
and. Japan, like, oh, Sonja's mad at
me, let me go get her mother andthen she'll forgive me.

(01:18:17):
Yeah, like, maybe that was the plan.
I don't know. Yeah, they have a moment in 1989
where Sonja is with Anna Sawai'scharacter and they're making
food. Anna Sawai says that she used to
help her mom cook dinner for herfamily, but it was kind of all
for not because the dad was rarely home.

(01:18:38):
He like never came home much. And Sunja says the food you make
for others and the food you makefor your family, you can taste
the difference. Kind of an extension of what we
saw in season 1 with food being such a touch point for people,
especially Sunja and her journeybecause she is a cook.

(01:18:59):
She's using her cooking skills to put food on the table, so to
speak, right? She's selling goods and the
goods is this home cooked food. And so she intimately knows that
cooking for your family is different than cooking for other
people. And she is basically saying, I
know how much love you put in that food.
I know how much it meant to you to cook with your mom and put

(01:19:21):
this feast together for your dadwho never came home.
It's like acknowledging all of this sincerity that was
literally left on the table. And I love that.
I just loved it. I thought it was, it was great.
And then we get in the past, Sonja getting a driving lesson
from Emin Ho on this stick shiftvehicle from the 40s.

(01:19:45):
And it was. It culminated in she ends up
making out with Lee Min Ho. And I'm like, girl, girl.
It was a moment of weakness. It was a moment of weakness.
And he he scares her off becauseagain, he asserts, oh, you're
mine and all this stuff. She's like, we ain't doing that.

(01:20:07):
And like, literally hoofs it back to the farmhouse, right?
And when she comes home, the momcorrectly guesses.
Lehman hose, the father Lehman hose Noah's dad and they both go
like we can't Noah can never find out foreshadowing
foreshadowing because of course no one's going to find out that
even knows his dad. And I did read into the bath

(01:20:31):
that she takes because she's covered in mud after she comes
back from they were they got thecar stuck in the mud and at the
push it and then they start making out and she's covered.
She's dirty and the mom goes, wehave to like wash you down.
We, we have to wash up because you can't go inside looking like
that. You're, you're got mud all over
you. And when she takes this bath, it
is like a baptism to me. That's how I read it.

(01:20:56):
Yeah, it's like a turning point.Yeah, she's not going to get
weak in front of Imanno, and she's not going to take his lies
anymore. Yeah, I really, I really like
that. And Noah of course, witnesses
Imanno loses shit on the foreman.
I was about to say that. Yeah, yeah.
I think at that extent of the ofthe story, Noah was kind of

(01:21:18):
getting suspicious of him a little bit.
And I think this just cemented that for him because on one
hand, his younger brother is like, Oh my God, he's so much
fun. He plays catch with us being a
kid. And then Noah being the person
that he is, is extremely protective as of his mother is
like, OK, this dude who's obviously rich and has

(01:21:41):
everything in the world, why, yeah, why is he hanging around
my mom? Why is he doing this?
And I think it really this both scared him because obviously
this dudes around his mom and him and his family.
It also showed him he'd obviously doesn't know that

(01:22:03):
Eamon Ho's character is part of the Yakuza, but this showed him
that this dude is involved in some weird, crazy, shady shit.
And I think it it it changed hisperspective of it, even though
he was just, I think he was verysuspicious of him before that
happened. But yeah, I agree.
And obviously Eamon Ho's character did not want him to

(01:22:26):
see it and then knows that he saw it.
So. Oh.
Man, he saw me at my day job. Dang, episode 5 we have to talk
about episode 5. Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Let's go back to episode 4 really quick because we also got
another kiss scene in this gym. Because the auntie has a First

(01:22:49):
of all, she has a breakdown, full on breakdown, like a panic
attack because they saw all of those planes flying overhead.
I. Think.
And she was like, Oh my God, this is a lot to take, right?
Especially for just she doesn't know if her husband is alive and
well, if they're going to bomb Nagasaki and all these things,

(01:23:10):
which history is really sad because we know.
Yeah, like the minute I heard that he was working in a factory
Nagasaki, I'm like, Oh no. Oh, Jesus.
And the minute I heard that I was like, oh man, this is going
to be bad. And again, it's weird because
it's like I not weird, but it's kind of, I don't know the term.

(01:23:32):
Both of these women had a momentof weakness in this show and
kissed the people they should not have kissed for.
Various. Different reasons, like
different reasons on why they should not have kissed him or
like the circumstances of the kiss of I think it's more, I
mean, the comments about this episode were tearing Sanjay's

(01:23:56):
character apart, just tearing her apart all around on social
media, which I hated. She don't need that.
She doesn't need that from you. Yeah, and I didn't see much
about the second button. I mean, it is even ho, so people
are just going to be talking about his storyline for the most
part anyway. But if you had to compare the

(01:24:17):
moment of weakness, I think in my opinion, even though I don't
think Sunja did anything wrong, I think she was just lonely and
he took advantage of that situation like he did in Season
1. I mean that it was all his
manipulation in her having this moment of weakness.
So I don't see she did anything wrong.

(01:24:38):
I think the side character with the bodyguard and the Ant, it
was more justifiable because shewas freaking out like she was.
She was pretty low as well. Yeah, she was like, basically
grieving her husband, thinking, oh God, it's probably the worst
thing ever. Yeah.
I agree completely. And then to an extent both.

(01:24:58):
You could say both guys took advantage.
Of exactly and to an extent Sunja was grieving too.
Like she literally just burned in sock and then left.
Yes, it was. There was no closure really
there. No closure.
No closure. You could see she was wanting
that. She was wanting that experience,
that whole funeral experience, too.
Exactly. Play itself out how it should

(01:25:20):
have and it was interrupted and then they had to flee the city
because it was about to be bombed.
She's got a lot of unresolved grief there.
You know so. And then the other girl, the
auntie, poor lady, like I'm just.
Like this poor. Lady, she can't catch a break.
And yeah, despite me actually wanting her to get with the

(01:25:42):
bodyguard. Yeah, the bodyguard took
advantage of that moment and maybe you could say he was
trying to comfort her, but she'sbeen trying to rebuff you for a
year or so. Like it's.
At least that, yeah. He was definitely taking
advantage of the situation, whether you saw it that way or

(01:26:04):
not. They both got kissed in episode
4, right? Right.
Right, I love that great spot. Episode 5 we got to talk about
episode 5. Episode 5 is Nagasaki 1945.
The brother is working on grenades.
So this is man. The names are escaping me this.

(01:26:28):
Is this is Yosef? Yeah, Yosef is.
Working on grenades I think in this fact.
The first, the first like 15 minutes of this episode, I was
just like, Oh my God. Yes, black and white, different
aspect ratio. Yeah.
They're doing the most, They're leading it up to the bombing.

(01:26:49):
Each day you get a little bit more of his experience in the
factory and how he is not hanging out with the other
Koreans in the factory, kind of keeping to himself until this
kid really opens up to him and tells his story of how he
survived a cholera outbreak thatkilled 88 of 89 people in his

(01:27:13):
town. He is the one survivor.
And the kid saying maybe I was kept alive for this moment, for
this moment, that I can kill this high-ranking official in
the Japanese army or something like that.
Like this general, I don't even know who was coming to visit
Nagasaki, but he was like, maybeI can do something here, make a

(01:27:34):
difference in some way. Yeah, Oh.
My God, it's all just. It happened so fast.
The August 9th coming along and the bombing, it was impressive
to see how they handled it. Right.
And how the guy just, I mean, Yosep jumps in and saves the
official who came for the visit,right?

(01:27:56):
But he really did it to save thekid because he didn't want the
kid to get off to for this murder attempt.
And then just when you thought they were safe.
No, there was at no point that Iwas like just when I thought
they were safe, but he gets put in the back of a vehicle and
then boom, the A bomb goes off the moment he regains

(01:28:20):
consciousness and you see his burnt up mangled face.
Wow. Wow.
I have crazy eyes right now because the that scene is it
rocks you. Yeah, it's like you literally
thought he was dead. Like you were like, there's no
way. There's no way that guy's alive
and then he's alive and. You're just like, no, it's that

(01:28:44):
worse. I don't.
Know I know exactly it's like hehe's covered in burns and sores
and bandages and like he's not recognizable whatsoever
obviously super painful it's. Just well, I heard, I also heard
that if this is from coming frommy sister who works close to the

(01:29:06):
burn unit in her hospital, that some burn victims when the burn
goes past a certain degree, theydon't feel pain because the
nerve endings have been burnt off, which maybe that's a small
mercy in his case. I don't know if that's the case
for him, but I just kept that inthe back of my mind, right?
The flies that were buzzing around him and crawling on him.

(01:29:29):
I was, I was just trying to selfsoothe during this whole thing,
right. And this is a conversation that
we said earlier that he has withEmanho because he tries to
assert like dominance over Emanho in this moment.
And it could be seen as righteous anger because he's

(01:29:50):
totally right to be angry at even though.
Right, right. However, even though he puts him
in his place, he's like you can be the head of the family.
I'm not going to fight you for that.
That's fine. You can keep that title.
However, I need you to know who's wearing the pants here,
who's paying the bills here, Who's saved your family so that

(01:30:11):
who saved your ass? Right.
So such a face that that's everything that I got from this
conversation. And then we get another five
year time jump. Well, really quickly before we
get the five year time jump, theother thing that was like kind
of in the 1st 10 or 15 minutes of this show of this episode is

(01:30:31):
you also are seeing the date. Like it's not just like, OK,
here's one day, here's another day.
It's literally counting down by showing you the date every time.
So if you're minimally know the date that the bomb went off,
you're like, OK, really. OK, So it's like one of those

(01:30:51):
things were like like in voice in the K drama voice, they have
a it's a whole thing where it's like they only you can only save
this person in a certain amount of time because there's like
statistics and everything. I can't remember what they call
it, but like they have a clock the entire time in the episode
and you're like, OK, they have to save this in people in this
amount of time. It's it was like that.

(01:31:12):
It's like you knew what was coming on this certain date and
they were just counting down. That's always.
Going to work. That that exactly.
The fact that shtick, if you will, is always going to work to
me, Yeah, yeah. The Korean War breaks out and
Noah takes the entrance exam forthis prestigious College in

(01:31:35):
Tokyo. In Episode 6, you find out he
gets in and I guess we can kind of slip and slide down the last
two or three episodes, right? Did you have notes for 6-7 and
eight? I didn't have notes.
I kind of have like broad thoughts, OK.
Go for it. I think it's like coming back

(01:31:55):
from the war. So they have a five year time
jump. They obviously have to rebuild
from World War 2 and then you have the Korean War.
And so it's like Noah being in this college, he's being
introduced, it's an expansion ofhis worldview.

(01:32:15):
You know where up until then youwere talking about earlier in
the episode where Sonja kind of have shield them to an extent.
She doesn't cry in front of them.
That was a whole thing in the earlier episodes when she's
like, never let the kids see youcry.
Always show them your smiling face.
And so how does that bear out inNoah's life?
He ends up not wanting to go to college because of the extra

(01:32:38):
expense the 2400 that the familycan't afford.
Yeah, and then he all of a sudden can go to college and.
Right, well, Sunja takes him to see his little girl that served
the tofu girl. The tofu girl.
Yes, the tofu girl. I love everything that she says
to him, but the thing that stuckout to me was that she's saying

(01:33:00):
your world is very small. Yeah, yeah.
And very insulated. Yes.
And you need to get out. You're a big fish in a small
pond. You need to get out to that big
pond. Yeah.
And I think college did that forhim.
Yeah. To the best and the worst.
Negative and positive reasons, yes.

(01:33:22):
You see the classes that he takes and how he's learning and
he meets his college girlfriend.Who I did not like.
Oh my gosh, what a Husky. I did not like her.
At all. Oh my God, nothing about her did
I like to. No, I was.
Struggling. Not at all.
Yeah. I mean, it was clear it was

(01:33:42):
another. Like it was clear she was taking
advantage of him again. It was like it was a common
thread you saw and I was weirdedout on why.
And maybe it was just the fact that like he just he had a kind
of innocence from that because he was so shielded or whatever.
But it's like before this he wasso and also obviously he also

(01:34:06):
had that thing of like, I don't want to be Korean.
So I think his girlfriend somewhat made him feel Japanese
even though she was had ulteriormotives and that's.
An interesting take. Not a good, not a good person.
But I think even though he was very critical and very in high

(01:34:28):
school and like in school beforehe went to college, he did not
like being Korean. But he also was, what's the word
I'm looking for, cynical. Like he was suspicious of
everybody in college. He seemed like all of that went
out the window. Either he was just like, it was
just a, he was excited about learning things and having his

(01:34:49):
world be expanded, but he didn'thave those same walls up.
So he didn't see this horrible person that he was dating.
Let me just say, being taken advantage of.
He was in that relationship. Yeah, everybody.
More often than not, there's a crazy story of your first
girlfriend or boyfriend in college, and rarely does it work

(01:35:11):
out right. I think this is a classic tale
as old as Stein thing, where he's enticed by her difference
of opinion and her tenacity and her spunk and the attitude, the
attitude that stems from her privilege.
Right, exactly. You know, so they were not well

(01:35:33):
matched at all, but that didn't matter.
It's college. He's of age away from home.
He's fucking around. And I do appreciate that they
showed them having different conversations and
interpretations of text, that they are like literature that
they're learning in class. And he's constantly calling her
out on her shit, clocking her tea.

(01:35:55):
And he's like, you're, you come from a privileged background,
You're Japanese, you have no idea what a struggle is.
And so you're not going to get the appeal of whatever this lit
is or you're not going to get what's missing from this
literature and what makes it flawed throughout.
He's just reading her and she isintrigued by his his truth

(01:36:23):
bombs, I guess. Yeah, because I don't think
she's ever. Because she's never had someone
challenge her like that. Right, right.
So that's also part of the appeal of each of them staying
with the other. And she gets a thrill out of
like, manipulating him sexually.Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely, but he knows this. Right, he knows this.

(01:36:46):
He's not ignorant to everything that she's doing.
It was, it was to fit in. It was to fit in, I think, yeah,
I think to an extent it was to fit in because he knew he was
Korean, she was Japanese. Like that was never going to
change. The moment when he goes to have
dinner with Hanzu Lehmann Hill'scharacter and this pernicious

(01:37:10):
bitch shows. Up to.
The dinner. Oh, I was so mad.
I was so mad. Just kind of parading and round
and looking like I know something you don't and I don't
care that you told me I can't gohere and meet this man.
Just so smug. So smug.

(01:37:31):
She's so smug and he's she sees how he bristles at her coming
and entering the space and meeting, even though it is such
a betrayal. And to an extent, like, yeah, he
did not know at that time that Eamon Ho was his dad.
I'm sure that he suspected there's a deeper connection.

(01:37:52):
Of course, yeah. And he obviously, as we said,
saw what he did in that field tothat person.
Yeah. But I think he generally grew to
like those dinners. He grew to like the
conversations that he had with Hansu and he, while he was one
wanting to hide that from peoplebecause it's very clear Hansu's

(01:38:16):
funding his college, he also wanted to keep it private
because it was something he sortof looked forward to.
Oh, I saw the. Other way that he was sort of
ashamed that he had to pay his respects to Hansu every month or
whatever. How interesting.
OK. Yeah, yeah, that's how I saw it.
But that's fine. Let me.
Try your take, too. I mean, I mean, I saw.
I mean, I understand the ashamedpart because yeah, he did not

(01:38:39):
like that he was funding his college.
Absolutely not. Absolutely not.
And he didn't understand why. Yeah, I definitely agree.
Like there are aspects of this relationship he did not want and
he did not like. Yeah.
But I think the conversation though, he looked forward to
because Hansu was knowledgeable and was able to keep up with his

(01:39:02):
thoughts and his 'cause I think Noah is a old soul.
I think yes. He was, oh, what a great Oh yes.
Like, yes, he like Jet, like, bickering with this girl and
going back and forth, but I think he even Hoe's character
gave him a perspective on this literature that he's reading
that he wasn't getting from anybody else in college.

(01:39:25):
So I think he looked forward to the conversation and not
necessarily having to go to dinner with this guy and knowing
that he was funding his college.But I think the conversation was
stimulating. Stimulating, yeah.
All this time, Noah has been telling it like it is clocking
her shit and like she laughs as she says.

(01:39:49):
Don't you realize this man is your dad referring to Hansu?
This man is your father? And he flies at her.
He starts choking around. There's like immediate violence.
And he instantly goes back to Hansu to verify.
And Hansu had this opportunity to do the right thing.

(01:40:11):
Yep, which was. Lie, lie and say no, I'm not
your father. Because throughout all of these
years, it's so clear that Noah has a differing personnel.
There's these are two disparate people, even if they're blood
related, they have very little in common in the way that they

(01:40:33):
think and the way they act. Noah is so gentle.
Right, the product of Sunji raising the.
Product of Sunji raising him, the product of the lessons of
Isaac, his adoptive father, and the fact that Imano looks him in
his face and says yeah, Yep, youare my son, You are my son, and

(01:40:54):
don't you worry about nothing because I'm going to pave a way
for you. No one's going to make fun of
you. No one's going to give you
issues or trouble because I willmake it so.
Yeah. And it scares the shit out of
Noah. Absolutely.
And then top it on the fact he just went at it with his
girlfriend. So all of a sudden he's like.
I just acted like. More like the guy.

(01:41:15):
Yeah, I'm just even more like the guy.
It's must be genetic. I felt so bad for him in that.
It was a whole whirlwind of emotions that came over Noah.
You feel horrible for him. It's crushing.
And all these qualities of virtue and righteousness and
forgiveness that he has exhibited are called into

(01:41:36):
question. Right.
Because this guy, this Yakuza asshole, is my dad.
Yeah, So I love that. I I just thought it was so
devastating and. So devastating and to an extent
I think even Hoe's character. Again, I don't think he cared
about the guy. I don't think he cared about

(01:41:57):
Sunja, but he needed that. There was some like Egotistical
perspective tyrannical thing of like this guy is my bloodline.
I'm going to do everything in mypower to make him as powerful as
possible and give him the advantages that I had to fight

(01:42:18):
for because I can't have a no son of mine.
It's going to be living in a farm in the middle of nowhere
for the rest of his life like. But it was nothing to do with
love and nothing to do with actually.
Caring for him. Exactly.
It was like, you are going to beas prestigious as me because my
image is everything. Yeah.

(01:42:40):
So ostensibly this sends Noah spiraling and I thought he was
going to commit suicide. Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
Yeah. The way he said by the Sundra, I
was like, he's gone. There's no way.
There's no way. I'm like, he's a goner.
He's not coming back for Season 3.
There's no way. Oh.
Dang, but come to find out, he just drops off the map like he

(01:43:03):
sells the watch, which was a token from season 1 that like he
did the same thing as his mom, which was sell it to a pawn shop
to get some cash and just started a whole new life in
another city. I think it was a pachinko parlor
that he just rocked up to and said, hey, do you need help?
I'm looking for some part time work.

(01:43:24):
And the guy was like, you're nota Korean.
You're not one of those. Koreans are.
You and. He says no and gives a totally
different Japanese name. Yeah, just like his teacher.
Yeah. I'm really curious if we're
going to get his character in season 3 because I either he's
gone for the rest of the show because, again, we didn't read

(01:43:46):
the book so I have no idea, or they're going to find him again
eventually and find out what happened.
Or here, I don't know, maybe he has a wife and kid and whatever.
Yeah, but his performance, Kim Kun Hoon and Kante Ju, like the
the kids, the actors who played this guy, they were phenomenal.

(01:44:09):
I thought so too. Like, they were so good.
So good. Yeah.
OK, we have to. We have to talk about the aunt
and her husband. Oh, like the the aftermath?
Lead us in. Lead us in.
Oh my God, I hated his characterso much and I felt so bad for

(01:44:29):
her. So bad because so he's alive.
Even ho saves him, brings him back.
He is AI don't even know like he's a jerk.
He's a jerk the entire time. And it's like, oh, woe is me.
And yes, it's understandable to an extent.
Of course you survived the atom bomb.

(01:44:52):
Like it, like obviously. But it's like you are taking it
out on your wife and everybody around you and you're making
everybody miserable and you're wallowing in your bedroom
upstairs and like people are walking on egg shells around you
because you can fly off the handle anytime at all as.

(01:45:13):
Textbook abusive. Exactly.
The husband's father. I thought this was really smart
of the show to do because maybe he could have turned over a new
leaf and thought, gosh, I'm lucky to be alive.
I actually survived the fucking atom bomb in Nagasaki, and my

(01:45:33):
whole family is alive except forhis brother, except for Isaac.
But yeah, that had nothing to dowith really wartime, right?
You know, there's a lot of things to be thankful for.
And he just fell back on bitterness and.
Yeah, and I think letting his. Trauma dictate his whole life
and being aggressive and demanding to his poor wife who

(01:45:58):
was praying and desperate for him to live in return.
Yeah. And what I find is really ironic
is he had that whole conversation with Eamon Ho.
He was emasculated. He never.
Recovered. He was emasculated, never
recovered. They both had ego problems and
he he definitely would not have admitted that.

(01:46:19):
He definitely was. Like I'm nothing like Eamon Ho's
character. I'm nothing like Hansu, I care
about my family blah blah blah blah blah.
Dude, you're exactly like him. You're exactly like him when it
comes to ego and narcissism. Answer just as dressed nicer.
Like it. It was.
Really. I found it really ironic that
this guy hated even host character so much and then ended

(01:46:42):
up basically destroying this family in a way.
Yeah, being a burden when he really didn't have to be.
No, exactly like once he. Recovered, he didn't really take
up the mantle of leading the family and providing for the
family and just even doing the baseline things that the gender

(01:47:04):
rules said he should do. He just wanted the title of
being head of the family. Right, exactly.
And didn't do any of the. Work to support the family.
Yeah. And then berated his wife for
like, her cooking. It was sad.
Yeah, so I mean, I can't blame his wife because they never,

(01:47:25):
they never. Other than that kiss, then
nothing, if I remember correctly, nothing happened
beyond that. But it was definitely like an
emotional affair that scenes that she would have in that
house where he they like avoidedeach other obviously with the
bodyguard. And like you could like I
remember there was I don't remember what episode was it was

(01:47:47):
like she was laying in bed and he was eating an apple or eating
something that was making noise in the kitchen.
And it's like she knew it was him in that room.
She knew just because. She left that food out for him.
Right, right. It's like those little things
you saw in the last two or threeepisodes of they're not like

(01:48:08):
sneaking around because they're not having a physical affair,
but like they're definitely having emotional affair and like
doing these small little things,which everybody knows is
obviously. There's attraction, there's
tension, there's. Yeah.
An understanding between them and he, you know, I guess that
character's name is Chungho. Chungho, the bodyguard.

(01:48:30):
Is his love based on pity? I don't know, maybe.
A little bit maybe. Maybe maybe also the thrill of
she's highborn and he's not. So this class divide is also
between them. And I'm sure that, as he said in
one of the episodes, like, we would never even be able to talk

(01:48:52):
if we were back in Korea. Right.
And I think also to an extent, Ithink the instinct kind of what
came in too is like he is a bodyguard.
So when he's seeing this horrible man just like berate
his wife. Yeah, the protection instinct, I
guess. Yeah, yeah.
I think to an extent that kind of kicked in too, but yeah,

(01:49:14):
yeah. Yeah, that that Yosef was like a
waste roll, so unreliable, just turning everybody upside down,
inside out. And I love Musashu, who's now a
teenager again, going toe to toewith Yosef and saying like,
can't you just like, do something?

(01:49:35):
Why are you here? Like and talk shit at the dinner
table. Yeah.
Which again, I feel like in the West that would be a lot more
acceptable to disrespect an elder like that.
Oh, of course. Absolutely, yeah.
But it's really charged here because that's not typical.

(01:49:55):
Like, they need to fall in line.He is the eldest.
He is the technically head of the family.
He's, you know, got all this clout, but he's not delivering
on the responsibilities. Right.
Yeah. And the fact that she, like, how
long was he in that? Well, it wasn't it like over a

(01:50:16):
year that he'd never left that house.
It was at least a year, if not more.
And again, he obviously is covered in scars and.
Whatever. Or maybe it was long, maybe it
was way longer that I don't know.
It was a really long time. Yeah.
Because when he finally did leave, they saw that like
baseball game. I think it was baseball.

(01:50:38):
Yeah, the American pastime. And look, Japanese to this day
fucking love baseball. Love baseball.
Love baseball? Yeah.
The fact that it took you a baseball game to realize your
wife was unhappy. The joy of life, what he's been

(01:50:59):
missing. Yeah, and then God, when they,
when she had to let him go, whenshe had to say bye to him.
Oh no, stop. Because actually, the bodyguard,
come to find out, he's like North Korean.
Yeah, yeah. I don't know if he was from
Pyongyang, but he, I can't remember, but he was basically
eating up all of his communist propaganda.

(01:51:20):
Yeah. And wanting to join the Korean
War, right. And fight on behalf of the
North. Yes.
And their goodbye. Again, I was bawling my eyes
out. Anyway, Long story short, the
Yosef ends up even withholding letters that the bodyguard sends

(01:51:42):
to her. Very notebook style.
I guess he was like, well, if she stayed even after I told her
she could leave with him back toKorea, then I'm going to make
sure she stays here like that. She's loyal, right?
And there's no contact between them.
So we're never seeing that. Just such an insecure little
man. So insecure and so yeah.

(01:52:04):
And I don't think we see we don't have him in the 80s,
right, or present day. I don't think so.
No, no, we don't have any I. Can't remember.
I can't remember if they said. I mean, I can't imagine he'd
live another 40 years after getting an atom bomb to the
face. But that's true.
That's true. Anyway, that's neither here nor
there. Oh, let's talk about NSY and the

(01:52:27):
whole backstabbing that happens really fast.
Yeah, which we kind of touched on cuz Solomon being a jerk for
most. Solomon's an asshole, but NSY is
also an asshole and they are actually really well matched.
They are. They are very well matched, yes.
Right. They're both in the same
corporate world of billion dollar real estate.

(01:52:49):
She is very competent at her joband the only thing that holds
her back is the fact that she's a woman.
So she's facing gender discrimination in the workplace.
Yep, major. Their whole romance really gets
going when he tells her to a face like you should run.
You should be running this placeright?
You're the best person they got here and starts to compliment

(01:53:09):
her in in a valid way because it's all true.
And she was like, thank you, I agree.
Let's get together. Come to find out she is also
highborn, right? Like technically she comes from
a wealthy background. Her parents have expectations of
who she should marry And insteadof and this is classic K drama.

(01:53:33):
I have to say classic K drama and they're an interracial
couple and instead of in the 80sand instead of her being proud
of him and showing him off and introducing him to her family
like he like she ends up gettingintroduced to his family because

(01:53:53):
she meets Sonja. She keeps everything about them
a secret and still continues to see the guy that she has an
arranged engagement with, arranged marriage with.
And the moment that he goes to see her in the restaurant, he
follows her from work to the restaurant.
She said she had all this work she had to do, yadda yadda.

(01:54:14):
Can't meet tonight. So he's already suspicious after
getting those photographs from the the Yakuza again.
I who are these guys? The Yakuza is now in real
estate. OK, fine.
They've always been a real estate, definitely.
It's like the mafia, like mafia is always in real estate.
Yeah. So it was just a little like off

(01:54:35):
putting, I guess. Is everyone that part of the
Yukos? I had all these questions and I
I I think I just missed it. But anyway, they tell him she's
cheating on you. There's something about her that
we we have this on her. You can use it to get what you
want. And he has to confirm for
himself and he make locks eyes with her in the restaurant in

(01:54:57):
the mirror, which again, every time you have a mirror, it's
like an identity crisis somebody's two faced.
She doesn't acknowledge him. Yep.
She looks away the moment she sees him in the mirror though.
I love how her facial expressions.
Oh yeah, definitely, definitely.Expert.
Definitely expert. And that's it.
He decides to break up with her.Get his revenge on her and let

(01:55:22):
as well as everybody else. Yeah, yeah.
But I mean, even before that, when they break up, he's like,
would you what? I can't remember what he even
says to her, but he's like, can you promise to not to not take
meetings with this dude that your parents want you to marry
and be loyal to me and be proud of this relationship basically.

(01:55:42):
And she says I'll try. Yeah.
He's like not good enough bye. And that that turns into he gets
her fired. He.
Gets her fired. He knows how.
Like it's funny because she eventhough in this workplace she's
trying to climb to the top and trying to bite and breakthrough

(01:56:04):
that glass ceiling, that is gender discrimination.
He's doing the same thing but intheir relationship.
He never could do that with her family.
So he's not going to let her do that at work.
At this point, it was life or death for him because the
accuser was basically like, OK, we need to get this deal done

(01:56:26):
now or else we're going to take it out on you and your flesh.
So you choose, right? Right.
But I mean, he was an asshole doing it.
I mean, it wasn't it wasn't a good look for him.
I. Mean and the shot of the old
lady leaving her property. Yeah.
With nothing, nothing, she just has her dog and he doesn't get

(01:56:49):
out of the car to say anything to her, to offer any words of
encouragement, to say you did the right thing.
Nothing. She just leaves with this, with
this giant wad of cash in her bank account and everything that
she built is gone. He made her give up this
property that she had lived withtrauma and the suspicions that

(01:57:15):
this property is literally sitting on top of bones, right?
It was. I mean, it's like unassailable.
How do you do that? Right?
How do you how do you exploit that and her trauma?
He's an asshole. He's an asshole, yeah.
So yeah, a lot to unpack there. But just to wrap it up, I think

(01:57:36):
that it was very telling that Anna Soy's character doesn't cry
when she breaks up with Solomon.She cries when she's fired.
Absolutely, yeah. That was her priority.
That was where she wanted to excel in.
And I think she also, she's meeting this guy for an arranged
marriage. It's the 80s.
It's very traditional. She comes from a high class

(01:57:59):
family. So they obviously have
traditions that lower class families don't.
I mean, it's old blood, right? Maybe to an extent too.
And this is how I kind of interpret it is like she's going
to be a housewife. She's not.
And she doesn't want that. She does not want that.
But her getting fired, she's gonna have to accept that, you

(01:58:19):
know, because she's gonna marry this guy.
And that was her second. Yeah, maybe.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Or at least in a way that she could marry this guy and still
have the job, you know, and maybe she had.
We didn't really get insight of her relationship with her family
other than them wanting her to meet this guy.
So maybe it was kind of a rebellion thing where she had

(01:58:42):
this job. And and they they hint at that
too, with I think she had slept with the white guy.
Yeah, she did. And he says, like, maybe it was
this, maybe it was that. Maybe it was because it was the
thrill of just the rebellion of it all.
She's sleeping with a white guy very, very similar to Noah and

(01:59:03):
his college girlfriend. Absolutely.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Generational. Gosh, I don't have much to say
much else to say other than as awoman.
I was very sad and I empathize with her.
Absolutely, yeah. But that's just the way the
cookie crumbles. Yeah, I mean, like, at the end

(01:59:23):
of the day, they both jabbed at each other.
Like I think both of them did bad things to each other to get
what they want and to get ahead.And she lost.
Like she lost. That's that's plain and simple.
Is like she threw him under the bus multiple times and he did
the same. Doesn't make him a better
person. Absolutely not.

(01:59:44):
But it also doesn't make her a St. either.
I think this relationship was never going to work out.
They had too much ambition between the two and the work
environment that they worked in did not cater to collaboration,
they catered to competition. And.

(02:00:05):
So it eventually was going to come to this boiling point where
someone in that between the two of them was going to win, at
least professionally. And I mean, at the beginning of
the season, he was the one losing because he had gotten
fired and was trying to figure out what to do next.
She was still working there. Wow, we've unpacked a lot and I

(02:00:28):
think we're at the end of the show.
So there's this one quote I I did write down.
I think this was at the very endof the show.
Like I know what happened in thelast episode but I want to say
it was like the last scene maybeOK, or maybe Noah's was the last
scene but either way I'll. Read Oh, Noah's was the last

(02:00:49):
scene. You're right.
Well, this definitely happened in the show.
So it says it was Sonja when he was she was talking to her son
at the kitchen table. In the present day, it was her
and. Massage.
Shoe. Yeah.
Massage shoe, whatever it is, you and I are here though so
many of those we have loved are gone.

(02:01:11):
We are here sitting at this table and Solomon is here as
well. And you were saying earlier
where the food was a huge thing,mainly more in season 1 than
season 2. But I think they had a lot of
shots anytime they were in this household in the present day
house around this kitchen table.And I think that, I mean, I

(02:01:35):
think overall people view the kitchen table overall in a
household as one of those type gathering places, you know, so.
And I think, I mean, due to thisbeing around food and Korean
culture is around food in general, I think it was kind of
fitting. Fitting.
Yeah, it was fitting to have these more serious and I mean,

(02:01:57):
granted most of the most of the shots of her kitchen table in
the present day was dark lighting.
It was usually not happy momentsbecause it was only her and her
son living in the house, but it was still around this kitchen
table and it was still that centerpiece of family that you
see throughout the generations in this show.

(02:02:19):
So I I felt that was very fitting.
And then the quote helped it along due to we're still a
family. We're still here, no matter
who's around this table and who's not.
I like that. So season 3, hopefully we find
out what happened. I mean, again, we haven't read
the book, so we don't know. We're just going off of the TV

(02:02:39):
show. Yeah, you know, we're going to
find out what happens to Noah, what happens to the rest of the
family. And I still think it's a, it's a
fantastic show. Highly recommend.
If you've gone this far and we've spoiled the shit out of it
for you, definitely sit there and watch it.
It's only 8 episodes. I did a free trial of Apple TV
Plus to binge it in like two or three days.

(02:03:01):
You can do that, or you could just purchase a month of Apple
TV Plus and watch it. I also ending on season 4 I
wanna say OK so you could also just wait until all Four Seasons
are out in the next and just. Watch four years.
In the next seven years. Yeah, yeah.

(02:03:21):
The way that streamers put out, it's a different conversation
that I feel like I've already had.
But yeah, thank you so much for going on this journey with me
through the 40s and 50s and 80s in Japan.
It was a very rich text. Oh absolutely, and I don't think
we even delved in everything. We didn't we didn't cover

(02:03:43):
everything. There's going to be something
like we stopped this podcast andbe like, oh shit, we didn't talk
about this. And that happens for every
podcast, right? There's only so much you can
cover. It is 8 hours of television.
We can't cover that much. But I think we tried our best
and we'd love to talk to you guys more about Season 2 of
Pachinko if you'd like. Caitlin, where can people find

(02:04:05):
you online? You can find me on Instagram,
TikTok, maybe I saw the YouTube channel.
You can find me on YouTube as well under the same name.
No sleep, the number 4 dramas. I also have the podcast which I
put on YouTube and Spotify. So yeah, DM me, hit me up.
Nice. Thank you again, Caitlin.

(02:04:26):
And that's been our show. I'm Jessica and this has been
the Taybot K Rambles podcast.

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