The Trunk / Ep. 84

Episode Transcript
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(00:18):
I'm Jessica and this is Tabaki Rambles where a couple of
friends review Korean dramas, except it's not two friends
today, it's a trio of friends. That's right, it is a drama trio
episode. Today I am joined by Caitlin
from No sleeper dramas vlog and podcast and Liliana from T and
Soju podcast. How are you guys doing today?

(00:40):
Oh yeah, yeah. All good.
All good here. Yeah.
We had a double header today, this is our second.
Recording. Of the day.
So we've been here pretty much the whole day recording with
each other and we haven't gottensick of it yet.
We are going to talk about the trunk today and I know that

(01:02):
Liliana watched it late last year when it aired and you
actually, I think you did an episode on it.
I. Did I did.
I purposely did not listen to your episode because I didn't
want to be spoiled on what you thought about it, so please
forgive me. I will be going and listening to
it after we finish wrap this recording.

(01:22):
And. If I'm to understand Caitlin,
you're maybe 10 minutes removed from finishing this show.
Yeah, I basically knew. I, I mean, we knew we were
reviewing this late in January. So I was like, I'm just going to
wait until January to watch it. And then I ended up having to
binge it in the last two days, including 10 minutes ago.

(01:44):
Yeah, nice. So before we get into it, before
we get into the fun, if this is your first time listening, go
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(02:08):
Tabakpod. DAEBAKPOD And lastly, if you're
a fan, please consider becoming a patron.
It's a great way for you to get involved and show your support.
You can check out the page on patreon.com/tibach Pod and thank
you shout out to our patrons, Janet, Curtis, Bale, Cindy, CD,
Alana, Grace, Lorna, Sammy, Caitlin, Julia #1, Michelle,

(02:30):
Tenmei, Martha, Delphia, Maria, Sarah, Julia #2 and Pam Thank
you guys for being patrons and thank you also to all the free
patrons on there as well. All right, we're going to get
into the non spoiler section of the trunk.
Are you guys ready? Yeah, Yes, I am.

(02:50):
Nice, the My Drama List synopsisreads.
Angie works for a contract marriage provider in NM,
arranging one year marriages forclients.
After completing her 4th contract, she meets Jung Wan, a
music producer for her 5th. Zhang Wan, still haunted by the
pain of his past and missing hisex-wife Sol Yong, starts his

(03:12):
second marriage with Ng. As they grow closer, a
mysterious trunk is discovered in a lake, unraveling dark
secrets behind the NM company. This show is adapted from the
novel Trunk by Kim Ryeong, whichwas first published in May 2015.
It's about 10 years old. This show aired in its entirety

(03:34):
November 29th, 2024. It's 8 episodes long, directed
by Kim Kyute, a really prolific director.
So he's directed Worlds within Iris, Padam Padam, that winter
the wind blows. It's all right.
This is love, which we know all about Liliana because you

(03:54):
guessed it on that episode with me reviewing it.
He's also directed Moon Lover, Secret Heart Rio, which is a
huge show from 2016, which is finally coming to Vicki,
streaming pretty soon. Coming soon is the tag right now
on that. And of course, there's an
episode on the podcast feed for that show.

(04:15):
The show is written by or adapted by Pakun Young.
And I really didn't know who shewas until I looked her up.
And then I was like, oh, right, she's written Huadong from 2016,
Romance Full of Life, Housewife,Detective, The Third Charm, and
I have not done my best yet. It really made sense when I saw

(04:36):
that she had written the third charm.
Then I was like, oh, that makes total sense to me.
The trunk and the third charm, Idon't know, it just made a lot
of sense. That really took a lot of people
by surprise that show and was tonally not what people were
expecting. It's a little shocking and yeah,

(04:57):
is it a romance? I don't know.
I don't know if you guys have any experience with Pakkun Young
or the director's other work. The director?
I don't think so for that director, apart from it's OK, is
it? It's OK That's love.
Is that the one he directed? I think that's the only one I've

(05:19):
actually watched out of that list from him.
And for the writer who are wrongbecause, I mean, pretty people,
let's not. Yeah, enough said.
I think that's the only two things I've watched out of those
lists. For the director, definitely
moon lovers. I've watched.

(05:42):
I want to say I I mean I I iris,I did watch too.
I can't remember if I've watchedpadam padam.
I feel like I have, but I can't remember.
I have to remember what it even is too.
But anyway, so I've watched a couple of the director.
I have watched none of the writer but I like recognize the

(06:02):
titles obviously. All right, this show stars Kong
Yu as Han Zhong Wan. He is our male lead, of course.
He is a prolific Kalu star in his 40s at this point and still
looking damn fine. He's done about 15 or so movie,
yet everyone's smiling on this speed, on this speed right now.

(06:25):
Kim Jong, born 1982. He did that movie in 2019.
Age of Shadows, 2016, Train to Pusan, of course, 2016, A Man
and a woman from 2016. I feel like that goes hand in
hand with this show. If you haven't seen A Man and a
Woman, I highly recommend it. Of course TV he's most recently

(06:47):
been in squid game season 2 the silent sea from 2021 Goblin.
Of course he's the goblin, the great and lonely God and coffee
Prince from O seven. Really not as many shows as you
would expect when you look it up, but his Co star is Sohyun
Jin. He she plays no Ng.

(07:09):
You might have seen her in Why her?
You are my spring, The beauty inside temperature of love,
Doctor Romantic, another Miss O and let's eat too.
So what? What is your experience with
Sohyunjin and Kongyu? You guys.
So for Gongye, we all know I didn't finish Goblin and apart

(07:30):
from that nothing. I've only like, I've seen his
cameos in Squid Gains 1 and thatwas it.
I had not watched him in anything else and I don't know
why I he does. I suppose for dramas he does.
Like he's done a lot of older dramas and I tend to not really
go back to older dramas all the time.

(07:51):
So yeah, I know. I know Goblin.
But look, guys, we're not going to go down that road again.
As for like Soyo and Jin, she's the complete opposite.
I've actually watched her in a lot of things.
I've watched another Miss I Doctor romantic temperature of
love, The beauty inside You are my spring and why her?
And I really like her as an actress.

(08:13):
I think her acting's fairly good, but also I think her
projects, even if the drama isn't that great, I always tend
to appreciate her character and her acting in it, if that makes
sense. So I, I really like her.
She's one of those actresses that I, you know, I keep an eye
out for. And if she's in something that I

(08:35):
think I'll enjoy, I I'll tend tocheck her out.
Now after watching the trunk, I was like, OK, I get the GONQ
hype before it. I really did.
I really didn't get the Gong U hype.
I was like, I know, I know, I know, I know.
But to be fair, I hadn't really watched him in a lot of things
and the only thing that I had partially watched was Goblin and

(08:59):
that wasn't necessarily him. Like to me that's not a him
problem, it's a story problem. So agree to disagree, agree to
disagree. All right, all right.
I can't. I can't help it.
But apart from that, I get why everybody's so you know, up for

(09:22):
gong you now. OK.
All right, Caitlin. For Gong You, I've pretty much
seen everything. Like I've seen most of his
movies. A lot of the movies that you
listed I've watched and I prettymuch have seen every single
drama he's done as well for the most part, even the bad ones,

(09:46):
yes. For So You Jin, I kind of have
like bounced around. I have not seen a lot of her
older dramas except for Beauty Inside but most mostly I watch
that because I love the movie somuch.
The movie in my opinion is better.
Which is way different I'm I think from the show.

(10:09):
Right, Yeah, but I I've seen Beauty inside, I've seen You are
May Spring and I've seen why her, but a lot of her older
dramas I I just have not. I did not watch.
They also were airing in a time I didn't have access to Korean
drama, so I didn't really go back and watch them yet I guess.
OK, so between us, we are rounding out all of their

(10:31):
careers, both of their careers, because I've seen a lot of
Kungu's movies, I've seen most of his K dramas, even the bad
ones like Big and Biscuit, Teacher, Star Candy and all of
those. And then of course, Sohyun Jin,
I've also seen let's see two another miss O temperature of

(10:52):
love. And then I kind of dropped off
and didn't really see myself watching why her you're my
spraying or the beauty inside, mostly because the beauty inside
the movie is so great. I'm like, I don't really see the
need to watch the show and I seeCaitlin nodding her head.
I love both of these actors and I think we can all agree that

(11:15):
maybe not Liliana coming into the show loving Kong You, but
this is a really great leading couple.
There's something to be said about at least for Kong Yu, he's
very choosy with his projects and he's at a stage in his
career where he doesn't have to do anything at all.

(11:37):
He just can exist, subsist on the CFS, you know, ads.
He can sell products and be brand ambassador and just make
his money that way rather than starring in a show or a movie.
But that gives him the ability to be really choosy.

(11:59):
Every project that he does, there is something that he finds
very unique about it. Whether the project is
successful or not. You know, there's something that
he saw in it that he a message that he wants to convey that he
believes in. And so I want you to think about
that when we go into the discussion about the trunk,

(12:21):
which I don't feel is going to be a particularly long
discussion, mostly because I didn't take any notes, y'all?
I don't think Caitlin took any notes either.
But, you know, we'll see. What did you guys think of this
show? I don't know who wants to go
first, but. Let Caitlin go first 'cause he's
got fresh mind. Caitlin.

(12:44):
I, I love this show. I think I liked it a lot more
than I thought I would. And ironically, I did not like
the parts I thought I would like.
I was expecting to like certain parts of this show because there
was a lot of parts that I was like, oh, that's something up my

(13:04):
alley that's speaking my language.
I'm definitely checking this out.
In hindsight though, I actually liked those parts less.
I'm not giving anything right obviously right now, and I liked
other parts more that I did not expect to like.
So I mean, it wasn't like a perfect drama for me, but it was

(13:25):
definitely something unique in my opinion and kind of went
against the grain of what I normally like and enjoy when I
get to the other side of finishing a drama for me.
So it's kind of contradictory towhat you thought you were going

(13:46):
to like, and the things that kept you engaged were things
that you didn't realize were going to be sitting.
Yes. OK.
All right. Yeah.
Do you want to say what those things are?
Is that too spoilery? It's too spoilery.
I don't want to. Liliana.
I ended up really enjoying this one.

(14:06):
I have quibbles with it. There's a couple of things that
I, you know, I have a couple of,I don't know, quibbles with it.
But overall I really, really enjoyed it.
I almost feel like it's how to explain it.
It's almost like a combination of a Western show with a Korean

(14:27):
show mixed together and you kindof taken the best parts of both
things and put it into this show.
That's kind of like what I felt and it kind of worked in and I
didn't think they would make it work, but they did.
I, you know, like I said, gonk you in.

(14:48):
This was great. I understood why people enjoy
him so much. Soya Jin was great in this.
The pacing was fairly good. I think they did a really good
job developing these characters and kind of growing them even
for 8 episodes. And I was like, see it can be
done. It can be done in eight

(15:09):
episodes. You can give us a full arc story
and you know, with really good characters.
So I think overall I really enjoyed it.
I did have a couple of quibbles with it, but even saying that I
I really liked it. Yeah, I would agree with you
both that I came into this thinking it was going to be a

(15:35):
romantic thriller. That's what was sold in the
trailer for it. That's what the marketing was
selling. And I think the problem that I
found, my quibbles have to do with the thriller part, because
honestly, I didn't give a shit about the thriller.
I think the best parts of the show happen very internally and
happen with the romance aspect of these two very flawed

(15:59):
individuals trying to work it out, trying to figure each other
out and this mini healing journey that they go on.
I thought this show was super stylish.
The cinematography was super Moody and I, I did say that I
think on my story, when I finished watching, it was like I

(16:20):
didn't see much K drama to this story, to the production of it.
It felt very western and I couldrecast this whole show with
Western actors and it would be the same show, which I think
bothered people. I think that was irking a lot of

(16:41):
watchers that this was not a typical K drama in any sense of
the word. It was, like I said, very
stylish. It was a very introspective
drama. It's not average, it's not
fast-paced. It is very evenly paced within
the 8 episodes, but I wouldn't say that you know, you have

(17:02):
cliffhangers at the end of everyepisode and things driving you
to watch the next episode. There were great depths of
emotion and fear throughout the show, and it's about two
traumatized and flawed and broken people inadvertently
finding a measure of comfort in each other and the courage to

(17:24):
heal and the courage to move forward instead of staying
stagnant. And I would say the older you
are, the more you'll get out of the show.
I don't think that younger people will find much to latch
onto in the show. I think this is for mature
audiences only. There is a deep.
Well of. Melancholia in this show and

(17:49):
this idea of like choking on your own memory, but thinking
that that's actually what's keeping you going, that that's
your oxygen tank versus what's holding you down and what's
drowning you. And that is really nuanced and
hard to understand if you haven't lived a lot of life,

(18:12):
sorry to say. It's about unhappy people.
It's about codependency. It's a bit of a darker
psychological drama. These characters are not going
to be easy to pinpoint. They're not black and white, and
this is very soft and understated romance.
There's a lot of soft and innocent parts to them, but

(18:35):
there's also really dark and difficult aspects of them that
are unlikable. And I think a lot of people were
off put by the sex scenes in this show.
A lot of people had complaints about the characterizations.
I mean, we can go into like the complaints, but my main

(18:57):
complaint has to do with the police procedural and the
mystery aspect of the show, which didn't work at all for me.
That was not why I was watching the show.
Yeah, that's what I I also disliked that part a lot, which
it was unexpected. That was the unexpected part is
I was assuming I was going to like that part more than I did.

(19:21):
And it wasn't even like my normal criticisms of like the
tropiness of how bad cops are written sometimes in crime Jamas
or anything. But it was just you could take
all this out and it would still be a great drama.
You could take all this out for the most part and it would still
be fine. It would still like this doesn't
add anything to it at all and not even the purpose of why it

(19:47):
was in there in the 1st place really even added to the to the
drama in my opinion. So that that was the unexpected
part for me as I thought I wouldlike that part better than I
did. Yeah, because you're you're so
into crime and that's your breadand butter and you're like our
expert in that genre. But I think also the reason why

(20:08):
is even if you did take those parts out, there was enough
thriller aspects to this that probably would have still
sustained me without because it was like a character thriller
than a plot thriller. And you can have thriller
elements to a drama without it having to do with murder or

(20:31):
anything like that. Yeah, I agree.
I agree that it was much more ofa character study than people
were expecting. I read this, I had a camera
froze a review or a summary, butI think it was a review in Teen
Vogue. And this sentence, like really
brought it together for me. They said, adding A twist to the
contract marriage trope, The Trunk tackles the plot device

(20:55):
from a film noir perspective. And I was like, that's what
people didn't like. That's what it is.
It's a film noir. People aren't used to seeing
noir in K drama. I think it was a little bit too
real for people almost because it's like it's very flawed
characters, isn't it? You can almost argue that they

(21:18):
are a little bit dislikable for the most of it part of the
drama, and I think people don't like that.
I think people were expecting, you know, a cohabitation fake
marriage trope, you know, they were going to fall in love and
everything that comes with it. And I actually prefer it much

(21:42):
better the way it was done because like you said, there is
a lot of nuances to it and thereis a lot of grown up stuff to
it. I am.
I would rather have a character growth and a character arc then,
you know, have a stagnant character for the whole drama,

(22:03):
so to speak. And I think the way these two
actors work together and work toshow their characters really,
really worked for me. So yeah, I, I like both of you.
I also, I wasn't keen on the thriller aspect of it, the
police work aspect of it. I just didn't think it was
necessary. Like you said, it didn't add to

(22:24):
the drama. And you could have taken that
whole aspect. And actually, I feel like the
drama could be even better without it because it doesn't
add to the plots. So yeah.
I mean on the opposite end too, I also saw comments that people,
and I won't spoil it, we can do it later, but like people also

(22:45):
didn't like the ending because some opinions I saw, right?
Like some opinions I saw were either it they didn't get the
ending they were expecting from what they got from the rest of
the show and it seemed like a cop out because they didn't know
how to end it. Or along those same lines like

(23:08):
the ending didn't fit the rest of the story and what people
assumes the ending would be. And like because as Jess was
saying this isn't the typical K drama, it doesn't fit into the
norm of AK drama and people werelike well the ending does.
The ending is a classic K drama ending which is why I don't like

(23:34):
it because it doesn't fit the rest of the show.
That's kind of the opinions I'veheard on the ending.
Other people I know loved it toobut like that's just some
commentary. I mean granted again I finished
this 10 minutes ago so it was like this is like 2 seconds of
Google. Search.
On an ending because I was really trying to remind myself

(23:54):
of something I noticed in the end, which I'll reveal the
spoiler thing but. Yeah, the online complaints
range, they just ranged. And I think the complaints were
not quite specific enough for meto think the writing was
particularly bad. I think our quibbles are, I feel

(24:17):
are going to be all the same, but they're going to be
specific, right? But the online things that I
were seeing was like, oh, Gong, you finally acting with someone
in his age group. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa. Bitching about age gaps again.

(24:38):
Someone else again, people who haven't watched Kong Yu in other
things, likely his movies where he is butt naked with people.
Someone said I didn't know grandpa had it in him.
Oh God. Which is like 1.
Of the best kissers in the game,people, one of the. 40 What do

(24:59):
you mean? You wish you look that good at
40. 40. You wish you look like that at
40. I was.
Living living. Look, even before I watched this
and was like, I actually do appreciate his work and I really
liked this role. I have eyes.
I could look at him and be like,he's a fine man.

(25:22):
What do you mean I don't understand people?
I don't understand. Someone else said that one
really sent me. I had to like take a break from
social media after I read that one that I didn't know grandpa
had it in him because put some fucking respect on Khongyu's
name. First, second and third.
OK. The other thing that I read was

(25:43):
thinly developed characters. I see confusion running through
here. I do not I do not agree with
that. I.
Absolutely 100% disagree with that statement.
Were we watching the same show here?
Like that Is one of the best things about this show is the
character development? What do you mean?
Now, there were some things I will say.

(26:04):
There's some things I wish they had developed more, which we can
get into. But I wouldn't say it's like
thinly develop. Not even like not one of these
characters are thinly developed.Like, it's not like Gongu's
characters, like has a whole back story and everybody else is
just like right here on the sameplane or whatever.

(26:25):
I Yeah. They said nobody had a clear
want. Nobody had a clear.
Why? Again, vastly.
Disagree. Disagree.
I mean, did this person watch this show?
Someone else, I won't say who itis, someone said one of the
worst K dramas I've ever seen inmy life.

(26:47):
She could, whoever it is, clearly did watch the police.
I was going to say, I was going to throw back at Jess and say
clearly they. Haven't watched them.
I was going to say, clearly theyhaven't watched The Bride of
Habec. Bride of Habec and.
Then the last thing that I had, not a Dirk hole, I paraphrased

(27:10):
that the romance was overshadowed by their exes and
their past traumas. I would say that is what made
the romance and the progression of their courtship, if you can
even call it that, was their exes.
I'm sorry. And their past like that thing

(27:30):
is too. If if you wanted the ending that
they gave at the end, you neededto get through that first.
Like they needed to come to terms with their trauma and or
like figure out the secrets thatwere going to be revealed in
this plot in order to get to theending.
That was the ending. I think these people were just

(27:51):
going into this thinking it was going to be a romance.
I really think people just like.A straightforward romance.
Yeah, like what normal everybodyseems to do is like, they go to
drama, right? Where did they get that idea?
But like. The trailers and the posters did
not give room. Like for once, actually for once

(28:15):
I will stand up and be like, look, it didn't give that vibe
to me. It did not give me like full out
romance vibe with what they wereputting out.
So I don't know what they were talking to you.
I don't know. We all know there's people out
there who just click play and belike it's a romance, it's going
to be a romance and then they get mad when there's no romance.

(28:36):
Like I see that countless times and crowd.
But there was like romance in this.
I know but like ROM com when I say romance they like they want
straight up ROM com. No darkness romance all the
time. I.
Think that's what people wanted it and yeah.
I agree with. You.
Yeah, I agree with you, Liliana.This trailer and these posters

(28:59):
did not give that whatsoever. And maybe people didn't watch
the trailer. Maybe.
Maybe there are people who don'twatch trailers.
Fine, you don't watch the trailer, but you start at the
beginning of episode 1 and there's literally a dead body
and a shot. What do you expect you're going
to get like? I can't believe we're on the

(29:21):
same page about this. I thought one person would be on
the defense or on the offense here, but like we're all on the
same page. I want to reiterate to
listeners, we did not discuss atall the trunk for the last two
months. We have not discussed the trunk.
We did not talk about it. Caitlin just finished it.

(29:44):
So it's incredible that we're all coming at this and we have
very similar thoughts. Again, if you've listened to
Drama Trio, we have very different taste in drama
sometimes and I'm just glad we're here.
I'm so glad we're here to talk about this because this, as you
can see, was a very divisive show.

(30:06):
Mixed bag. I wanted to talk really fast
about the book because a few people in our circle did buy the
book and read it, read the translation of it.
And one of those people was Naz from the Soon Diaries podcast,
and she posted about it and I did talk to her about it, and

(30:26):
Naz hated the book. She thought it was awful.
This is a quote from her story, her Instagram story in December
of 2024. She said it's completely
different from the show. I now understand why the show
had to take so many liberties because absolutely nothing
happened in this book. I'm truly baffled.

(30:49):
So if you'd like to talk to somebody who did read the book
and saw the show, definitely reach out to Naz from Swoon
Diaries pod. I'm sure she's more than willing
to talk about this show and the differences between the source
material and the show. We're not going to be talking
about the differences. What I want to point out mostly

(31:10):
is that the book seems to be also divisive, and a lot of
liberties were taken right. What we got in the show is
loosely based on what the book had going in, if that makes any
sense. We got a different thing than
the book. With that being said, we're

(31:33):
going to spoil the trunk. Get into more specifics about it
right after this. Excuse me, I can't, you know.
I have no tingle. Oh, sorry, swear.
Discussing shirts? What?

(31:54):
All right, we're on the other side of spoilers.
During the break we were talkingat length about how insulting
people were to Cong you and how they just don't understand age
and how time works, and he was just so rude of them to say that
about Kung Yu. Well, I think also too.

(32:15):
I mean, you said it earlier, Gong Yu is very picky about his
dramas. So there's years he doesn't have
a drama come out. And as you've said, people don't
watch movies like they, they, they he's a movie, he's a movie
actor. So I think a lot of people do to
K dramas becoming more popular over the next last five years or

(32:36):
so. There weren't a lot of dramas
with people of a, of actors and actresses of a certain age
coming out becoming popular. I think we've seen a resurgence
of that. But like a lot of these older
actors and actresses were famous, famous in quotes like I,
I assume, I think they're still famous, but like their heyday

(32:57):
was when they're younger. And a lot of these newer
watchers have not gone back and watched those and seen these
when these actors and actresses when they were in their 20s and
30s. And so I think there comes a
they kind of avoid them now because they are older.

(33:18):
They're like, I'm not going to like that type of drama because
the actors are all older too. I think there's a, it's AI think
it's a combination of a bunch ofstuff, but I think part of it is
the type of actor or type of watchers that are watching them
nowadays with what the dramas have been coming out in the last
five years or so. Because even with like Squid
Game like Squid Game season 1, Gongyu had a very small.

(33:41):
Role Oh yeah, it's. Done.
I, I hear, I hear in like season2, it's a little bigger role.
I haven't seen season 2 yet, butlike I've heard it's a bigger
role and he did get recognition.He did get recognition more for
season 2. I saw a lot more people talking
about him per season 2 versus season 1.
All right, so we're going to getinto the trunk and we're going

(34:04):
to settle down into a little rhythm here.
We're going to talk about it. Caitlin, did you have anything
you wanted to start us off with since you are the freshest on
this? Yeah, I'll start off with
something a little comedic because it's going to be really
quick, but I was not expecting the cameo right out of the gate
in episode 1 of Jung Kung Ho. I like, was not expecting it

(34:29):
whatsoever. And then they all of a sudden
came out with that. And then I want to say.
Wait, there was also a second cameo, which you wouldn't know
it unless you looked up the castlist, but the other husband that
was on his deathbed and he was thanking her, all hooked up to
the machines and stuff. That was also somebody that was

(34:52):
a male lead from The Greatest Love.
You know that guy? Wow, yes.
I don't remember his name, but Ido.
I do know who you're talking about.
Oh. My God, hold on, Chasung 1.
Chasung, One who is also a star of yesteryear, who audiences

(35:13):
would recognize in Korea, but he's all covered up and you
would only know it if you lookedat the credits.
But two cameos. All right, So the only notes
that I have are that the female lead shows up at his house with
her trunk, her own emotional baggage, so to speak, and she

(35:34):
immediately strips down naked and takes a shower in his
shower, which is really shockingand weird.
I thought that was very invasive.
I don't know if you guys had anythoughts about her method and
how she just sort of walks around and inspects the house
and opens all the closets and sees the other trunk in his

(35:55):
closet. And you can tell that she's just
rifling through his life and inserting herself.
And you can see that she is working him out, figuring him
out. And also it's figurative, right?
Like she's also doing that literally, but she's doing that
figuratively in his life. And this is a little violating.

(36:20):
I think to me that scene was almost like, yes, it was
invasive, but it's almost like her shedding her outside clothes
and kind of almost stepping intothe character of his wife, if
that makes sense. That's what, yeah, that's what I
was going to say too. She's like going in, assessing

(36:40):
the situation, so to speak, so. I love that word.
Step into the role of wife, she is like almost evaluating what
does this role require of me? What is he going to require of
me, so to speak. So I think that was a really in

(37:00):
your face way of doing it almost.
But I, I liked how it was done because if you are watching this
and you weren't watching it with, you know, I don't know, a
deeper look or whatever, it can just look like she's getting
there and getting very comfortable and going for a
shower. But it's so much more than that,

(37:21):
I think. And this show is actually really
good at doing this sort of stuffwhere on the surface it seems
like something, but if you dig, it's got a lot of more baggage
for you to unpack. And I I really like that aspect
of it. So compare that with the other
wife, the ex-wife who I have in my notes, she is an emotional

(37:44):
terrorist. She.
Needs therapy. Yeah, yeah, the woman needs some
serious therapy. That's basically all I have for
her. So she's an emotional terrorist?
I think some people almost commented that she's like a
sociopath or something because everything needs to be her

(38:06):
control and everything needs to be for her and what not.
And she is actually one of my quibbles with this show.
Her character. Oh.
Yeah, go for it, one. Of my quibbles, so it's not
necessarily throughout the show because I actually really
enjoyed the seeing Gongu's character like a break away from
her and it starts happening veryquickly because I think it's

(38:30):
like episode 2 or something or episode 2 or 3.
It's like the smallest detail, but our female lead, she hurts
herself and he takes her to the hospital and he gong you gets a
call from his ex-wife and he's like, I'm really sorry I can't
talk right now. And he puts the phone down and
it's like it's the smallest thing.

(38:53):
But it's something that before, you know, in G came in.
He wouldn't have done that. So I actually really liked
having such a horrible character, her in a sense as the
ex-wife, because watching him break away from that was really
satisfying for me. But my quibble is horrending.

(39:15):
I didn't like it. I didn't like how her character
was just like, yeah, I know I'm bad and I'm dealing like I I'm
going to be that way and I'm dealing with it.
And it's kind of like, yeah, I needed a little bit more from.
Yeah, I saw, I saw that completetoo, just from a couple of

(39:37):
people that she didn't deserve her redemptive arc.
See I didn't really see it as redemptive arc.
Exactly. I don't think she even got one.
Yeah, that much. I mean, I think like she when
she got rejected and knew she couldn't get back with Gong Yu,
she tried to get back with the other dude and he ended it too.

(40:00):
And then at the very end. She was like, I'm going to help
this dude through his trial and get him a lawyer and then we'll
see what happens. Like, I I don't think she
learned anything. I think she wanted the other guy
because she can control him again.
She can. He has to do whatever she wanted

(40:20):
to do because of the contract. So I yeah, I don't, I don't see
her. I didn't see her having
redemptive arc whatsoever. Yeah, I think because there were
very few consequences for her, people thought, oh, redemptive
arc. Yeah, yeah.
But I don't think she, I mean what she got was nobody under

(40:40):
her thumb, nobody was within hergrasp or control.
And that is torture for a narcissist.
Right. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. So yeah, I don't know.
I, I think she got some a very sliver of punishment there where
she basically pushed everyone away due to her own antics and

(41:04):
now she has nobody left to control.
She's just grasping at straws and trying to help this guy with
his murder trial. But you know, it is what it is.
She I think I had someone question me about the baby and
the chain of events of the baby.Yeah.

(41:27):
So I didn't really think it through.
I mean, I did think it through, but I didn't really put a lot of
thought into it, if that makes any sense.
She obviously her and Kong, you were going to have a child.
She was pregnant. I think she was somehow in her
last trimester or something likethat.
And there was a like a cutaway scene of her on the toilet

(41:52):
struggling. I thought it was she was having
a miscarriage. So what I I didn't get that from
the story. What I thought was because she
gets run over while she's pregnant.
Oh no, she doesn't get run over.She.
Steps, Yeah, sorry, she steps, she steps.

(42:15):
And I think that would have beenactually something that I would
like them to explore the little bit in her character, because
they do talk about depression and whether she does that for
attention or not, or whether she's depressed in that moment
because she's losing everything and she doesn't want to be a mom
and she's now figuring out that she's going to have this baby.

(42:38):
Yeah, that was something that I wanted to pick at more,
definitely. Was her psyche there and how was
it because she was afraid of losing her power and identity as
a woman in her control over Kongyou, who really did want to be a
father and was happy that she was pregnant and was looking

(43:00):
forward to the baby. And she was like, I've never
wanted to be a mother. I've never thought about this.
I hate being pregnant, so on andso forth.
I truly think she was having a miscarriage and then she was
already kind of hating the idea of having a baby, and then she

(43:20):
just hastened it along, stepped in front of the car to, I think,
just kill herself because, like,yeah, she was deeply unhappy.
It could have been, I don't know, hormones.
Pregnancy does weird things to women.
I'm just saying. It does.
It does, sorry, it does, and shesurvives.

(43:43):
But there's that dilemma where they asked the father, Kong,
you, what do you want to do? Save her or save the baby?
We can only save one. And he says save the baby.
I don't whatever you do, save the baby.
She overhears this and it does horrible things to her mind.

(44:06):
And heart, actually, that whole segment is a very interesting
segment because who do you save in a situation like that?
There's couples that would arguesave the mother.
We can try for another baby. You know, there's stuff like
that. There's couples that would argue

(44:27):
save the baby, but then you're not only a widowed father, but
you're also having to raise a newborn by yourself with, you
know, no experience. And I think that that was a
really interesting point that wecan understand where Gongu's
character is coming from. But for a character like his

(44:50):
ex-wife, for somebody else that isn't even born to be chosen
over her from, you know, the husband that she thought was
under her thumb completely, thatmust have I.
Think. It broke her.
Because. She was already, yeah, she was
already unwell. And then that on top of it for

(45:13):
something that was so unwanted from her.
Yeah, that that would have broken her, I think.
Now, I don't know the laws or anything in Korea about should
they just have asked the mother if if she's lucid and she's

(45:34):
there, just ask her. She's a steward of her own
healthcare. Do you want us to save the baby
or not? I'm not sure if the husband
would be the one to make that decision.
I don't know. That seems like AK drama ISM.
But barring that, yeah, that is of conundrum that nobody wants

(45:56):
to answer. And the movie and the book are
both touted as being feminist. With that label in mind, what
how do you feel about her character?
The ex-wife I see, I kind of like, there's one specific scene
that I'm thinking about and you guys will know straight away

(46:17):
what scene it is that had a lot of people up in arms.
And it's the scene where her current husband is showering and
she comes in and kind of like isoogling him and whatnot.
And a lot of people had a lot oftrouble with that scene
specifically because they thought it was done in poor

(46:39):
taste. And, you know, it wasn't
necessary. But I'm like, do you know what
that kind of like is woman forward, so to speak?
I don't understand why it was such badly received because I'm
like, why can't a woman do that?Why?

(46:59):
If it was a man in that situation, you probably wouldn't
have argued so much. Like why is there why are we
standing on here and saying, oh,that was done important.
No, it wasn't. She was looking at a fine man.
What do you want? Like what do you expect?
I was supposedly my husband thatshe's, you know, having lots of

(47:21):
sex with like what do you expect?
Yes. But I think also it, I think it
also played into her character. It wasn't just a woman.
It wasn't just a woman looking at a nice looking man.
It was a power play. It was her being like, I have a

(47:44):
contract with you, you have to do whatever I say.
And so that means I can you can't come over here, you can't
touch me, but I can look at you all I want.
And I mean, I think that fit hercharacter to AT like she would.
It would definitely be somethingher character would do.
Yeah, the sex scenes as well as the denial of sex is all part of

(48:10):
her character, and I feel like it's very feminist, if that
makes any sense. Like, yeah, why not?
Why not? Why can't you say no?
It's her body. It's her.
Yeah, like enough said, It's herbody, so.
Why can't you say no? And why can't you do it on the
couch if you want? And The thing is, they are in a
contract relation, literally a contract relationship, and it

(48:34):
stipulates that she can do whatever the heck she wants, so
she's paying for it, so. Yeah.
So there was, there's a couple of things.
This leads into a couple of questions, which is, one,
thoughts on the sex scenes. 2 Was it gratuitous?
Which the overwhelming sense that I got online was yes.

(48:55):
People thought that all the sex scenes, especially with her,
were gratuitous. The ex.
And does it perpetuate the idea that all people with sexual
desire are evil because she is so unhinged?
OK, so again, I watched this after it aired, after everybody
had been talking about it, right?

(49:17):
So the way that people reacted about these sex scenes, I
thought one, I thought it was a completely different person
having sex scenes. I didn't understand.
I because like the ones that I read did not name a character in
in name. They just were like the sex
scenes are over the top or whatever.
So I was assuming it was the leads.

(49:37):
I was assuming it was Gong Yu and his relationship.
So I was very surprised when it was actually her.
And again, I think it fit her character really well.
Like, I didn't think it was overthe top.
I think it was very much along with what her character was.

(49:58):
I mean, she knew she had this IUD in her.
She did not want to get pregnantagain.
She was like, I'm paying for this dude to be my husband, this
nice, younger, very fit, good looking guy.
I'm going to have fun. I'm going to control him and
have a good time and use him. And she definitely used him

(50:23):
because I think there came a point in her relationship with
him where she was not satisfied by what she was trying to get
out of her ex-husband. So she went and had sex with him
to have some sort of control in her life because if she didn't
have her current husband, her life would fall apart.

(50:45):
I did not think it was over the top.
I did not think it was like cameout of nowhere.
Like, yeah, it was a little surprising because it's a like
you walk in and you think it's AK drama and then they have
that. But it's not like I was
expecting. I also was expecting with giving
people's reactions that it wouldn't be the woman that was
having a full frontal scene. I assumed it was the men, which

(51:09):
you normally don't even see in American television most of the
time. So I assumed I was fully
expecting to see male genitalia in this show.
And I didn't see anything. Like when she went into the
locker room to look at her husband.
I was like, oh, OK, this is the scene that you're going to see
the male genitalia. No, not at all.

(51:30):
So no, I did not. I disagreed with most of what
people said. Also their reaction.
I assumed there was going to be a lot more sex scenes.
Yeah, there wasn't. That bad 'cause there's really
one, there's like one sex scenes, Yeah.
So yeah. I thought the same thing.
I've honestly, personally, I just kind of went, I don't know,

(51:50):
maybe I'm just desensitized or maybe I just thought it was
fitting. When they cut to it, I didn't
even blink. I didn't even bat an eye.
I was like, this is this fits. And we kept going.
Then it was the next couple of nights that I looked online and
I was like, oh shit, people havenot seen ass before.
People don't know how to act. And it was incredible.

(52:15):
The viral videos that were beingshared about this stupid ass sex
scene that I thought was nothingto write home about.
I don't know. I don't know.
Again, maybe this show benefits from an older audience and the
youngins just haven't been here long enough to see some of this

(52:35):
in AK drama or just. I mean, I was shocked.
I was shocked that people were clutching pearls over this.
It was to me, like you both said, it fitted her character.
It's just a woman taking her pleasure how she wants it.
I mean, and it fits with her character and her control.

(52:56):
And also it kind of adds anotherlayer to because then later on,
we do have a sex scene between, you know, our main couple.
And you can kind of see the differences of, you know, what
they're building and the type ofrelationships in those scenes.
And you know, you can directly compare them and say this is,

(53:20):
you know what a healthier at that point.
It's not quite healthy yet, but you know what I mean?
They're working on it. They care for each other.
They're working on a situation as directly opposed to the
ex-wife that feels like she's using her current husband for
her needs and to fulfil whateverblack hole she has in her soul,

(53:43):
so to speak. So it didn't bother me.
It didn't. Didn't bother me.
And bother me, yeah. I thought people were going to
talk more about the fact that this show has a weird neutral
perspective on sex work because these contracts.
Absolutely, Absolutely. Are low key sex work and I was

(54:08):
like, oh, they're prostituting themselves in in this marriage,
in the context of this marriage and just slapping the label
marriage on it. Make it better, make it all OK
or you know what what is is it condemning it?
Is it celebrating it? No, the show is very neutral on
it. So I thought people were going

(54:29):
to talk about that more than hey, they're bumping and
grinding. Fuck yeah, they are like that's
the whole thing. Let's move past it.
But also, I wonder if they couldhave just said no, if that makes
sense, because that would make the difference.
Because this freaking manual that everybody and their mother

(54:50):
keeps mentioning never shows up.So we don't know what the rules
are for these freaking marriages, right?
Because Angie does say, I think they do have a conversation and
our main couple and they do havea conversation about, you know,
sex and whatnot. And I think she says if we're
both wanting it or something along those lines.

(55:12):
Guys, I watch this. That's.
Basically what Yeah, that's basically what she did say.
And it was the same with like ifthey ever wanted a divorce, they
both have would have would need to say yes, I want this divorce.
So yes, you are correct. There is this conversation about
consent because if she feels uncomfortable or she doesn't
want to but they won't, they don't.

(55:35):
So I think for the ex-wife it's a little bit different because
the guy for some reason, goodness.
Oh, he's into her. He wants to jump her bumps.
He's. Into her.
So I think that's why the thought of almost prostitution
didn't even cross my mind in a way, because there was kind of
like for our main couple, there was a clear conversation had

(55:57):
about it and there was consent and whatnot.
I'm not saying that in prostitution there isn't
consent, but you know what I mean?
Like that with the ex-wife as well.
The man wanted to jump her bones, like you said.
So right, right. They were all just consenting
adults. I'd like what what do you want?

(56:20):
There was I, I don't know what else to say.
I think the other thing a lot ofpeople had problems with though,
which I also liked, like one of the things that we said, I am
switching gears in this dress, so it's.
Not no, it's OK, I'm not. I'm not going to be talking
about the sex scenes anymore. I mean, might be, but like in
the end of the year episode withLiliana, I said I like I wanted

(56:43):
more dramas with Gray characters, with morally Gray,
not black and white, that thing.I got the feeling a lot of
people were not expecting everybody to be flawed in this,
and I loved that. Part of this drama is just like
everybody had trauma, everybody was flawed, Everybody had stuff

(57:07):
that they were trying to work through.
Whether they did add by the end or not, that's a different
story. But like, I loved that part and
I don't think people were expecting that at all.
Yeah, for whom? You.
I think people definitely had torethink his character when you
find out that he was like, yeah,kill my wife.

(57:30):
Right, right. Save the baby.
Yeah, but in I mean, I actually did not think that was I'm
again, I mean, this is a there was a horrible situation to put
him in. I would never want to have be in
that situation, but let alone watching your own wife step in
front of a car to get away from that situation.

(57:52):
Like, I can't even. Yeah, I can't even imagine.
So like, on one hand, I could, Isort of could understand that
answer because he was probably pissed at her.
He probably was like, I'm so happy that you're pregnant.
I'm going to have this baby. I've always wanted to be a
father. Always wanted a family.

(58:12):
Be the opposite of what my family life was and you
literally took that from me by your own selfish.
And granted, yeah, they didn't communicate and he didn't know
how horribly sad she was and whatever, but like, I can't
really 100% blame him for the him saying that either because

(58:33):
that's got to be trauma within himself within itself to see
your wife intentionally walk outin the middle of the street to
kill yourself and your baby. You also have to rethink Kung Yu
when he's still living in the house.
Yes, that too. That too.

(58:54):
The entire fact that he's still in that house, no matter the
fact that the ex-wife completelyredid the house, remodeled it,
whatever, He's still living in that house where so much shit
went down with his father, with his mother.
And I would be the first one to sell the shit out of the house

(59:14):
and get the fuck out of Dodge. He's.
Choosing to stay in that, choosing to.
Stay there, stay in that trauma,wallow in there and not move on.
And there's something very childish about Kong you and even
about his profession that he doesn't even have like a grown
up profession. He just like goes to work
whenever he feels like it and he's this vague music producer.

(59:38):
We never really see who he's producing.
And he doesn't have any issues with money.
He doesn't even care about moneywhile his business partner in
the music production business isstruggling financially.
Over and over we see that he's like, we're about to go under.
He's telling his wife we can't do this, we can't do that.
He's constantly thinking about financial troubles and Kong you

(01:00:02):
in his own fucking world. So Kong you is so removed for
he's so insulated in this traumaHouse of his and you have to
think he's fucked in the head. He needs therapy just like
everybody else, no matter how everybody has needs therapy.
But Kong you has a lot to work through in this show, this

(01:00:23):
character and what's her face toAngie, the female lead.
Oh my God, boy, does she have stuff she has to work through as
well? I feel like we haven't touched
on her and her back story, but anything that's happened with
her mom, I don't really quite understand.
I wish we saw more of what happened there in the fallout
with her and her mom and then living in her own trauma house.

(01:00:47):
A lot of like pot calling the cattle black here because she is
living when she's not on a job and in a marriage.
She's living in her own trauma house.
Keeping this apartment that her ex fiance abandoned and ghosted
her keeping it just as he left it.
Everything in place. The neighbor keeps putting fish

(01:01:10):
back in the fish tank when they die.
Like it is a pristine shrine to this dude and this whole thing
of he's gay and was had this I think was it like an orgy video
that came out just before their wedding.
I don't even fucking know. It was this whole thing, this
whole. Stink.

(01:01:31):
He was bisexual. Like a bisexual.
Yeah. Basically what happened was the
stalker guy found out she was marrying him.
He he, he revealed the photos toher mother.
Her mother put it all online, which caused him to be outed

(01:01:55):
basically to everybody in Korea.And he up and left and left in G
to deal with the fallout. Yeah.
That's a lot. Like, that's a lot to be living
through and grieving because youcan see that she is grieving
that relationship and she reallyhasn't stopped grieving all

(01:02:18):
these years. There is no closure for her.
Yeah, I was going to say that. There's never been any closure
for her until he comes back and they have that final
conversation. I think that's when she shuts
the door on that relationship, Ithink.
Yeah, so then too, there's so much going on there.

(01:02:40):
Of course, the ex-wife who is emotionally manhandling Kong Yu,
who has this codependency on her, he has relied on her his
whole life and she has manipulated him literally his
whole life. I think they were childhood
sweethearts. At least college sweethearts.
Maybe not childhood, but collegeat least.

(01:03:01):
It's just a really bizarre relationship.
I think that he basically latched on to whoever was near
and she was nearby and relished,you know, the power that she had
over him. And that turned into a really
toxic marriage. You know, she never wanted to be
a family, and that's what Kong you wanted and needed.

(01:03:24):
And she really imploded that one.
The thing is, I was just going to say on Gongiu's character, it
would have been actually interesting because he said he
so wanted to be a dad, but I don't think he could have been a
dad at that point. And there's like a much deeper
conversation about that because he's not mentally stable.

(01:03:48):
No, not at all. And to bring a child into that
environment, it would have been catastrophic, I think.
And he doesn't see that because obviously when once, if you're
in it, you won't be able to see it.
And I think that's the type of nuances that you get in this

(01:04:08):
show that as an outsider, as somebody watching the show will
be able to pick up on it. And some people may watch it and
be like, but I can see it like why?
Why? But obviously the characters are
in it. They will not have that outside
perspective that we are getting.So I think a lot of people might

(01:04:29):
have forgotten that when they were watching this show for a
bit. Yeah, and I mean, even even if
he was in the good mindset to have a child and be a father,
the wife definitely was not. So like it would have destroyed,
it would have destroyed their marriage anyway.

(01:04:49):
Because I don't think he, I mean, they were both selfish in
their own way. I don't think he, I mean, I
don't think, I know he was not thinking of his wife at all
during those 910 months that shewas pregnant.
He was like, I need this child. I'm going to be the father.
And then she didn't want the child.

(01:05:11):
She probably would have just shunned the child and I.
Think she was jealous of it? Yeah, definitely, definitely
jealous of it and definitely didnot like the fact that he was
happy for the child and not necessarily happy when he was
around her at all. That the source of his happiness
was this. Child.

(01:05:33):
Yeah. Instead of her.
Right. Yeah, like even that's even the
the situation she had when she almost had to have a
hysterectomy. Oh yeah.
And she was sad that she hadn't gotten to that point that they
saved her uterus and saved everything.

(01:05:53):
And she was like, it would have been so much easier if I had
gotten this hysterectomy, like, because she did not want to get
pregnant again, did not absolutely did not want to get
pregnant again. That was very telling of her
character. For sure, she should have just
had it go on hormones the rest of her life.

(01:06:14):
So let's talk about the stalker.You mentioned the stalker.
I think this is a blight on the show.
I do not care for the stalker. The stalker is pretty vague.
We do not have a lot of info on the stalker.
Utterly useless of a character Ihave like here in my notes.
Stalker took an unhealthy obsession with her after she

(01:06:36):
took a cooking class once. Do I have that right?
Yeah, yeah. At first I thought he was an
ex-husband of hers, like one of the people that she had
marriages with. But no, it was just a random
guy. Which I mean, to its credit,
that's mostly how that happened.Like, not mostly, but that that

(01:06:59):
is a common thing that you just randomly walk past somebody and
all of a sudden it's a stalker. Or you take one class of theirs
and all of a sudden it's a stalker.
Whatever. But yeah, like he wasn't even
like a main character in her life.
It was just a random passing in a class that she took.
Didn't he actually used to work for the company she worked at as

(01:07:22):
like some type of security person?
If I'm. That was, that was the ex.
That was the husband of the ex. Wife, yeah, but I I think he was
also because I know we had this question on the tea and so like
when we did it maybe I'm misremembering I'll have to
listen back, but either somebodymessaged me this or afterwards

(01:07:45):
because I had the same question about how they had met and I
think somebody had said that she.
Took a coping class. But he also worked at the same
company that and that's where they saw each other for the
first time was at this company. Tiebreaker.
I know I, I think, I don't thinkhe ever worked for the company.

(01:08:10):
I think he worked for the. Company.
I think he was just a passerby who became obsessed with her and
then followed her everywhere anddisrupted her and got into the
company and tried to, I don't know, whatever he wanted to do
in that lobby of that company when he killed the security
guard. Now this is a very real fear for

(01:08:33):
women is that you just get a stalker and it escalates and
escalates. There's really nothing that the
police can do. They won't take it seriously.
They haven't done anything to you.
They're just making you feel uncomfortable.
And it becomes a problem when the woman loses her life.
So Liliana, you are correct, buthe didn't work for the company

(01:08:58):
so apparently Google. I don't remember this, I thought
it was a cooking class or something.
Apparently the company hired himto be a self defensive
instructor for the girls, for the men or the wives or
whatever, and he essentially became obsessed with her through

(01:09:20):
those self-defense classes. So we're technically both right?
Yes, he was employed by the company but it was a
self-defense contractor class sothey didn't meet in a class and
ironically he was hired by the company.
I thought it was a. Cooking class.
Because, because, because then when they talk about it with

(01:09:42):
like his CEO, the CEO said it would look bad on the company if
we had hired somebody who'd donethis.
So we took care of it by sendinghim to a psych ward quietly
instead. So that's why I thought I
remembered something along the lines that he had done something
for the company. Well, no, it would look bad on

(01:10:04):
the company because he entered the premises, killed an employee
of the company, was stalking an employee of the company who was
the female lead. And then if they went to the
police, the police would be like, oh, OK, So asking a bunch
of questions, what do you do? What does this company do?
When on what day did he come by yada yada.

(01:10:25):
And this whole subdivision of this company is under the table.
This is. Illegal.
Yeah, right. These.
Contract marriages are illegal, so that's why they're like, we
can't let this get out. We have to handle this quietly.
Right. But yeah, you guys are both
right. We're, we're both right
essentially is yes, he did work for the company, but not in the

(01:10:49):
capacity that we assumed he'd beworking for the company.
OK well I did appreciate that one-on-one he had with the
ex-wife when he mocked her and imitated her.
Oh, that was juicy. That was great.
I think the actor who played himwas phenomenal.
Oh yeah, I had never, I had never seen him in a drama

(01:11:10):
before. And if I I didn't remember him
from a drama before. Yeah, I but I would say this
storyline is a Horror Story in real life.
So many stories of stalkers verymuch like this, and it just
escalates and it always ends really badly.
When Konyu invites him into the house, I was like, oh.

(01:11:33):
I was like, what the hell are you doing?
What the fuck? Yeah, that was a wild choice on
his part. I was like, what are you doing?
You are literally bringing his stalker into her inner sanctum.
What are you doing? What are you doing?
Also, by the way, the actor who played her contract marriage
husband, The actor who played the husband, the contract

(01:11:56):
husband, this is his first acting role.
Oh, oh, for the ex-wife. For the ex-wife, yes.
OK. This is his first acting role.
Oh. My God, apparently he was on a
dating show. Like a reality dating show.
Yeah, he fine the but yeah, so Kong Yu again, that character

(01:12:19):
just allowing the stalker into the house and being like pretty
please stop stalking my wife. Yeah, yeah, where's a shotgun?
Like get off my property that I don't understand that at all.
It was a very childish move. Again, so sheltered and no St.

(01:12:40):
smarts at all from Kong. Yu's character doesn't
understand the threat to his wife, you know in G at all.
Oh God. I just didn't understand the
stalker and how it just. That was the tension of the show

(01:13:00):
that I couldn't get behind. I agree.
Yeah, I it it wasn't needed and I wasn't.
Needed. They could have gone the route
of beefing up NM Corporation to be more sinister.
That's what I wanted them to do.I wanted to know more about the
company. I mean, you could do like

(01:13:21):
multiple seasons of this show with different couples and
different thing. Like there's a lot you could do
with that. You could do multiple seasons.
There's like a whole universe you could do with this company
of like different characters, different stories, how they
started it in the first place. Like the director is very
mysterious in general of like, why did she start this company

(01:13:43):
in the 1st place when she like she had that one liner in like
the last episode of oh, in my marriage in the first two or
three years. I wanted to kill him too.
I was like, OK, well, did you end up killing him?
Like what's going on there? Prequel But yeah, I think I
think it was like, as you said, just I think it was there to add

(01:14:05):
tension, but there was so much tension with the ex-wife and how
crazy she was and even the tension with her contract
husband herself. Like, one of my favorite scenes
is when they were all together having that dinner, and there
was so much tension between the four of them trying to size each

(01:14:27):
other up and, like, figure out what was going on.
That is what was enjoyable aboutthis drama.
And yeah, the stalker murder part wasn't really needed.
Not at all. Talking of scenes that I really
liked, the kiss scene between our couple calling you is one of

(01:14:47):
the best kissers bar none. And the scene where his father
dies and he has to attend the funeral, presumably by himself,
and the ex-wife shows up. Yeah, yeah.
I have, I, I have like literallythe quote from that scene

(01:15:10):
because I love this so much. Let me find it.
Let me go through it. Caitlin, you go ahead and sit
like, oh, episode 5, episode 50,basically she comes back.
So basically they have this interaction between a female
lead and the ex-wife in the bathroom where she's like, I'm

(01:15:32):
going to take over now. I was going to swear, but you
know, basically go walking. Swear it's fine.
And then she comes back and she sits down next to our male lead
and she says to him, Miss Ayon is gone, I'll accompany you now.
And he says to her, what about the manual?

(01:15:53):
And she says, I think I'll take today off because basically what
they had said about that. Then she gives him like her hand
and holds his hand for comfort and whatnot.
What she had say was it isn't inthe manual or something along
those lines for her not attending, you know, the funeral
and playing his wife. So that's what she says in that

(01:16:16):
scene. But even like just a
conversation between those, it'sjust like so simple.
All she says is I'll accompany you now.
Like the other one's gone. I'm here now, I'll support you.
And she just gives him his hand.I like her hand for comfort.
And it's such a direct comparison to his ex-wife when

(01:16:36):
she was standing there and beinglike poking at him and like
dragging him and whatnot. And performative.
Exactly, exactly. And our female lead comes in and
she doesn't even care for the people that are around.
She is like, is there for him, solely focused on him.
So yeah, I really like that scene as well.
Wonderful scene. The scene so their face off in

(01:16:59):
the bathroom is great and also their face off in like the
construction site. Oh yeah, yeah.
They start like throwing hands. Oh, love that part.
Love that part and any interaction between them is so
biting. I love it.
The scene of I think it's the scene where Angie finds the

(01:17:23):
camera. She has this whole like she says
to the ex-wife, don't you know his father put a camera in that
chandelier to spy on his mom andyou're doing the same thing and
yada yada. I just love how Angie handles it
because I feel like most people would tell Kong Yu's character

(01:17:44):
right away, but she doesn't. Why do you think she doesn't
tell him? I think like she said in the
drama, like she didn't know how to and I really think I think
that was why like, how do you tell somebody who knows?
And I I'm sort of speaking from personal experience on this is

(01:18:05):
like you tell somebody who you have been married to who you
have built this life with, you think you're going to end up
together forever and you tell them the darkest secrets and the
things that like the lines they cannot cross in their
relationship. Like everybody has boundaries.
Everybody has that line that if they cross, it is done.

(01:18:29):
And the cameras was gong use line.
He told her this in and became vulnerable and was like, this is
my trauma. This is what happened to me in
this house. And she used that against him
and she use that for her extremely selfish ways of

(01:18:49):
controlling him because she realized she was losing that
control. And that like, I don't know how
you tell somebody that, like howyou reveal that this line that
you had this boundary that you had and trusted that boundary to

(01:19:09):
somebody else who you thought was going to be your forever
partner. I found out they crossed that
boundary and they basically crossed the line.
That was your line. You don't cross.
And I would find that. I mean, for me, I don't know.
I would be it. Would be.
Very difficult for me to tell somebody that, but at the same

(01:19:33):
time, if I was that person and it.
It's so like, invasive and so voyeuristic, and I had no idea
that was happening. And then the person who's living
with me knows. I actually was expecting Gong Yu
to hate her after finding that out.
Which was this? Yeah.

(01:19:54):
Angie. And I was surprised by his
reaction because he knew she knew eventually.
So I could kind of understand, Icould definitely understand why
she did not know how to tell himbecause how do you tell somebody
that? But on the other hand, it's like
if I was gong you, I would want to know that.
That's just like, it's really complicated, so complicated and.

(01:20:20):
I do think what helps is that footage that he saw of Ng
crying, right? At the table, yeah.
That I think did wonders for hissoftened reaction toward Angie,
if there was ever going to be a blowout reaction toward her,
because you could see that she is devastated for him and

(01:20:44):
saddened by the situation and doesn't know what to do, how to
handle it, how to tell him. So her crying there and and
sobbing at the kitchen table I think was the perfect thing for
him to see right when he saw thecameras.
Yeah, that was horrible. That was horrendous.
And my question was, did who youtell that to his ex-wife as well

(01:21:08):
about the camera situation? Because he definitely said that
to Ng. Oh, she definitely knew.
She. She definitely.
Knew she definitely knew about his whole thing with that camera
stuff because Angie, even Angie was like, how could you do that
to him? She knew she knew though they
were there. She knew that whole story and
that whole background definitely.

(01:21:28):
And she stabbed him in the heartwith.
It did it anyway. Betrayed him.
Yeah, yeah. For her own like she just could
not fathom the idea that she would have to live apart from
him for a year and not be able to control.
Him and not be. Able and not know what was going
on in that house. Yeah.
Especially because she knew theyboth recognized her from that

(01:21:52):
graduation scene. They both did.
And they both knew. Like, she specifically chose her
for that reason. She was trying to control even
them together. So let's switch gears to the
mystery thriller aspect and the police procedural that was at
the front and end of every episode.

(01:22:15):
There was a mystery of like, whogot killed?
Was it Indie? Was it this person?
Was it the stalker who got murdered halfway through the
show? Halfway through the show, they
tell you it's the stalker. And then you're like, OK, so I'm
not upset. Like I don't even care who did
it, it just I thought that was another blight on the show.

(01:22:36):
I did not give a shit about the police procedural.
It was very when the Camellia blooms to me.
Caitlin's laughing. So did you guys have thoughts
about it? I was just going to say I didn't
care for it. I didn't think it added anything
to the show, but also I think the constant switch back and

(01:22:57):
forth was a bit jarring at timesand it wasn't obvious that you
were what timeline you were. Following I would agree.
So I think that made it very confusing.
They could have done it. I don't know gradiate it like
with a different colored. I don't know, they could have

(01:23:18):
done something. They could have changed the
cinematography or the color. Green, yeah, it's different to
me. For sure what you were looking
at. Yeah, exactly.
So for the first couple of episodes, you're kind of like
what is happening, and then you kind of have to figure out that
everything that is cop related is in the future and everything
else is in the past. But I just felt like that was

(01:23:39):
jarring and I didn't think it was needed.
I don't think the stalker storyline was needed at all.
There was plenty for the show tolike sink their teeth into or
without having all of that. And again, I couldn't care less
that the stalker died. I didn't think, you know, I

(01:23:59):
thought it was a bit ridiculous having the ex wife's current
husband kill him. I was like, what is he like,
why? I don't know.
This doesn't feel like why, why is he even doing that?
I didn't quite. For me personally, I didn't
think his reasons were strong enough to warrant that response

(01:24:23):
in a way because from what I gather he didn't want him to
released the documents because that would bring the company
down and he didn't want his fakemarriage to end or something
along those lines. That's kind of like what I.
It was also revenge. It was revenge because he
killed. He was a keeper.
He was a security guard before he became a husband.

(01:24:44):
So he killed his colleague. His coworker was killed in front
of him in the lobby. So he killed the serial killer,
the stalker guy to get revenge for his Co worker?
Yeah, that husband. That fine fine husband had
trauma of his own. Yeah, I don't think you're
wrong, Liliana. I think that also was an aspect

(01:25:06):
that he didn't want the marriageto end, so getting rid of the
stalker would preemptively maybenot Ngongyu's marriage as well
as his own marriage. So I think you aren't wrong in
your reasoning too. But I actually was surprised by
that. I wasn't expecting him to be the
person who did it at all. So I, because it was so

(01:25:29):
unpredictable, because he never really crossed my mind, I didn't
expect him to be a security guard or a keeper of the
company. I always assumed he was just the
husband, whatever. So that was surprising.
But then the also the other thing that, and this was like my
own imagination, which I wish they kind of did, but they

(01:25:50):
didn't. When she goes into the field to
get this trunk right and to openthis trunk and she realized she
couldn't open it because it's the wrong trunk.
Yeah. Before they, and this was before
they revealed what was actually in the trunk.
Right. I immediately was like OK who in
the house also works for this for this company who also is a

(01:26:13):
contract wifer, her husband. I was like is gong you also a
contract husband? Like what is going on?
Or was the ex-wife also a contract wife?
What is going on? Of course that didn't happen,
but that was where my mind went when the second trunk was
because like, what are the odds that the same trunk exists twice

(01:26:36):
in the house? Granted, she found it when she
was first unpacking in episode 1, but still it's.
Because she made it, the ex-wifemade it so because the ex-wife.
So there's a flashback that Angie is buying that specific
trunk and gong, you and the ex-wife are in the shop and she

(01:26:58):
says I want that trunk as well. So she made it that way because.
She's crazy. Right, right, right.
I forgot. I forgot about that scene.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
What did you think? I was think of what was inside
the trunk. That was the other bit of this
mystery was what could possibly be inside this trunk.

(01:27:20):
We find out that it's baby clothes and baby paraphernalia
from the child that they lost for what the Kong Yu and his
ex-wife lost. What did you guys think of that
being the, I guess that twist orwhatever?
So like the wife cried over it, which I don't think she was

(01:27:41):
mourning the kid. Like, I don't I really do not
think she wanted this baby and Idon't think she had any
connection to it. I think the crying when she
actually did open it was basically her.
And I don't know if it's mourning the marriage, but like
sort of accepting the fact that she's never going to have gong

(01:28:05):
you. Like she's never going to be
with Gong you just because like I don't if she was crying over
the baby, I that would not make sense to me because like her
whole character of this drama upto that point gave no inkling
that she cared for having this baby at all and didn't want to
get pregnant and didn't want this child at all.

(01:28:27):
So to her all of a sudden try over baby clothes and mourn this
child. Who put the baby not making
sense to me? Who bought the baby clothes?
I want to say it was gong you like.
I want to say it was either themtwo together or CI.
Think it was her. Yeah.
Because it's so. You think it was Gong you?

(01:28:50):
Or like them together. I didn't.
Yeah. I didn't really say.
I didn't think it was her, no. But The thing is, Gong Yu would
have wanted, I think from my read of his character, he would
have wanted no reminders of thatbaby.
I don't think he would have wanted anything around.
Whereas for her. And even if he had stored, why

(01:29:12):
would he have stored it inside her trunk?
It doesn't necessarily make sense.
So to me, what makes more sense is that she stored those clothes
away and she put them in her owntrunk.
Like she's surprisedly the only one with the combination to open
that thing up. So she would have put them away,

(01:29:34):
I think. It's her.
I agree with Liliana. I think that deep down she
doesn't necessarily want the baby.
I'm not saying she wants the baby.
I'm thinking she might be mourning the life she should
have had even if that baby had come.
I don't know. That might be a little inkling

(01:29:56):
in her towards that baby. I don't know.
But I think there is some emotion there from her for that.
I. Think so too.
Why was she crying after she washaving the miscarriage before
she jumped in front of the car in the street?
I think that's there's a contradictory aspect to her that

(01:30:20):
is hard to pin down. And I think that it has to do
with her deepest desire, which is maybe she did want the baby
secretly. See, I didn't even see her
crying during the miscarriage. I didn't see her crying for the
kid, I saw her crying for the fact that Dong you would blame

(01:30:42):
her if she had the miscarriage because he was so happy of
having this child. I don't think we're wrong.
I don't think any of us are wrong.
Right. I think it's a confluence of
things and the surprise of seeing the baby clothes in her
trunk, which is only she has thecombination for she bought it.

(01:31:05):
It really is symbolic, right? It's a metaphor for we all have
trunks, right? That only we have the
combinations for. And we lug it around from place
to place and nobody knows what'sinside.
And for her, it was this deep, deep desire, maybe connection to

(01:31:26):
wanting the baby or or wanting to be try it out, be a mom,
something that maybe it's just contradictory to her nature,
right? Yeah, I think two things can be
true at the same time. I think she can feel like she
wants the baby and she can also feel like she doesn't want the
baby. I think those two things can

(01:31:47):
coexist at the same time. 1 doesnot evaluate the other and I
think can hate. The baby because of how it
changed her relationship. Exactly.
Exactly, Yeah. And even hate herself because
deep down she may want this baby, so and it may go against
everything that she is as a character.

(01:32:09):
So I think like I said, I just think two things could be true
at the same time. So I think she might not want
the baby and in her mind thinking I've never wanted a
kid, I don't want it. But then deep down.
The idea of. Wanting it, Yeah.
The idea of the baby and then hating herself for wanting that

(01:32:30):
baby. So.
So yeah. I think we've come to the same
conclusion, Liliana. And then for Angie, you know, at
the end of the show, she had, she like, gets rid of the trunk.
She sells the trunk. It's empty.
And that's also a pretty powerful message as well, where
she's like, I have no secrets, There's nothing to hide.

(01:32:51):
I'm not going to carry around this baggage anymore.
This emotional. Yeah, she's letting go.
So I found that really great. The ending.
Do you want to run through the ending really fast?
I really liked the scene of her going to his house for the final
time and he's selling the house and he just picks up a mallet

(01:33:13):
and goes to town. And it's like he is literally
breaking walls, figuratively and, you know, directly breaking
walls. And I really liked that imagery
and the fact that he's breaking the walls that have kept him
shackled to this house and, you know, breaking away from them.

(01:33:33):
So I loved that last little scene and normally I hate the
whole separation in the last episode type of situation.
Oh, they needed it. Exactly.
This is one of the very, very, very few places where I'm like,
this is exactly what they neededbecause together they started

(01:33:56):
the journey. But they need to work on
themselves by themselves. They need to work on that trauma
and be happy with themselves as people to then be able to give
themselves to a relationship. And I, you know, they need to
walk away from the fact that they're almost like trauma
bonded because they kind of liketo dumped all of their trauma on

(01:34:18):
each other for a little bit. So I really liked the ending.
I liked the fact that they walked away and with no, what's
the word with no plan. They just said if we meet again,
if we meet three times. They left it in a serendipitous
place, which is I. Think where people.

(01:34:38):
But that's K drama. See.
I think that's Western as well. That's very Western as well,
sorry. It is.
Have you seen a ROM com in the West?
And I think, and I think it works really well for them as
characters. I really like that montage of
them just him cooking for himself, them getting pets for
each other. Like, you know, but they're.

(01:34:59):
Still like their own person. Because.
She likes dogs, he likes cats. And they have some
commonalities. They both dislike tomatoes in
their cheeseburgers. And, you know, it's very
realistic. You know, these are some things
that real grown-ups have to contend with as they grow and

(01:35:19):
change. It's like, yeah, I kind of
figured they're like, I don't really like dogs.
I like cats. Cats are chill.
And Kong you. I think he's a cat guy as well
in real life. So it's that it's sort of tracks
her as well, like her just finding her own way and getting
out of that bunk. And just getting out of that
house because she had not lived in her own home for a very, very

(01:35:44):
long time. She either lived at the house
that was meant to be her marriedhouse or at, you know, fake
husband's houses. So for her to have her own space
and live in her own space. I just, I was really happy with
like the ending overall. I really liked like them getting
distance and perspective and kind of leaving it up to chance.

(01:36:09):
If they meet, they meet, you know, and it's an open ending.
But I think that's reminiscent of life itself.
Because. What is life but an open ending?
So yeah, you know. I liked it.
I thought it was really cute andromantic.
Kong You smile at the end. I wanted to read something from

(01:36:30):
a follower who really, really liked the show and they said
this. I loved that it felt like Pulp
Fiction. Everything was connected but not
in the way I thought. I loved that Kong You was able
to find love and realize the abuse his ex was doing that he
wanted to love again. Female lead is amazing.
Loved her and why her and she played understated bitch with

(01:36:51):
class and ES. I agree.
I loved that the people I thought were horrible were and
that everyone had their own misery to contend with.
I love how Kong Yu's character just came out and said it.
I want to sleep with you. You should know that.
Then when he said I think I could be someone who can't live
without you. He was just so raw and honest
with it, and I love that so much.

(01:37:15):
I just thought I'd read verbatimwhat they messaged me.
I agree completely. I thought it was a raw and
honest take at very flawed individuals.
It was a noir. And for those who don't know
what a noir is, it's a style of filmmaking known for its dark
and cynical, pessimistic themes.And that's what this show is.

(01:37:35):
The K drama in it is that it ends on a bit of a positive
note. It ends on like an uptick.
That's the K drama in it, that'sthe romance in it.
I thought it was really thought provoking, probing and I don't
think it's for everybody, unfortunately.
Do you guys have any last words?One thing I noticed watching

(01:37:58):
this was the red and blue comparison, which is obviously
from the Matrix, like red pill, blue pill.
And that was A constant theme through this entire up until the
last scene because Gongu was wearing red pants and she was
wearing blue pants. So was he going to take the

(01:38:20):
show? Was she going to take the blue
pill again and go back into the illusion of them getting
married? I forgot to say that this show
had some goblin tie insurance. Like they go to the movie
theater and watch a scary movie and Kong U's character is a
scaredy cat. That's the same as Goblin.

(01:38:42):
There's a scene just like that in Goblin, just a little more
played for comedic effect. And then she, the female lead,
wears a bright red scarf just like the female lead in Goblin.
And I don't think that's a coincidence.
None of that to me. Is, I don't think, no, I don't
think that was a coincidence either.

(01:39:03):
Yeah. It reminded me when you said the
blue pill and red pill. Yeah.
So like if people don't know what that like what that whole
Matrix thing is, basically it's the famous scene where Morpheus
hands out the red or blue pill and Neo has to make a decision
on if he's what he's going to take.

(01:39:25):
And like the blue pill is, he's going to continue in the Matrix
and live out the life that he had been living.
And then the red pill knocks himinto reality and takes him out
of the illusion. So that's essentially what it's
doing. Like with the colors in this
drama, a common blue, we see theex-wife, the horrible ex-wife

(01:39:48):
wearing a blue necklace the entire show.
He's taking blue medication. Gongu's character, most of the
clothing he's wearing when it comes to being in that house is
a shade of blue or black or likethat.
That color scheme and then you have her walk in and she's
wearing red or color shades of red a lot of the time.

(01:40:11):
There's a scene where the ex-wife once they've he finds
out what he did and she tries togo and smooth it over.
He took out red juice from the fridge and was drinking it while
she was trying to give him her case and everything like that.
So like. It's.
It was interesting and they evenlike explained the the matrix

(01:40:33):
lingo with these two colors in the show like in the drama.
So once they said that I was like oh OK I should probably
watch out for these two colors in the entire drama which is why
I noticed so much. But I loved how it worked even
to the last episode or last seenin the last episode because I

(01:40:54):
like, you should have seen me. I like watch the last scene.
I'm like, oh, Oh my God, Oh my God.
Because it was like, is he goingto walk away from this
relationship and continue down the red pill path that he had
been living for however many months it have been since they
last saw each other? Or is he going to start over
with this new relationship and enter this blue illusion with

(01:41:17):
her again? So I love that messaging so
much. Me too.
Yeah. All right, guys, we've done it.
We have traversed the entirety of the trunk and if you guys
have anything you guys would like to say to us about the
trunk, we are more than happy todiscuss it with you on the

(01:41:39):
socials. You guys want to say where they
can find you? So for me it's T and Soju pod,
all one word on Instagram, TikTok and all of those places.
I'm no sleep. The number 4 dramas on
Instagram, TikTok blog, YouTube,whatever.
Yep. Hit us up.

(01:41:59):
You know where to find us. That's it, That's our show.
I'm Jessica and this has been the Tibock Here Rambles podcast.
Bye. The.

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