November 11, 2024 • 27 mins
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Step into the shoes of a World War II veteran as he brings to life the raw and riveting experiences from Utah Beach on D-Day. You'll feel the adrenaline as he recounts navigating the perilous waters on a motorcycle amidst enemy fire, and the poignant moments that followed, like forming an unexpected bond with a stray dog in war-torn Germany. Through his vivid storytelling, you'll grasp the chaos, the courage, and the camaraderie that defined that fateful day and the days that followed. His tales offer a window into the heart of a soldier, marked by the resilience and humanity found even in the darkest of times.
This episode takes you deeper into the complexities of war through strategic maneuvers, unexpected surrenders, and the harrowing tasks faced by soldiers. Our guest shares insights into tactical prowess, highlighting the ingenuity of officers and the stark realities encountered, from booby-trapped bodies to the unforgiving conditions of the Battle of the Bulge. We also glimpse the lighter side of military life, where discipline and presentation lead to unique opportunities and recognition. Join us for a compelling exploration of the spirit and adaptability demonstrated by those who served, reminding us of the enduring human stories behind the headlines of history.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Obviously a big part of your life and a big part of
the world.
The history of the world andour society is World War II.
I know you growing up.
I know you didn't talk aboutthat a lot.
It was a tragic and traumatictime, but some stories maybe
that you'd like to shareincluding how you encountered,
(00:21):
randomly and surprisingly, yourbrother, brother Art you want to
share.
We were shipped to Ireland.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
We stayed in Ireland for three months before they got
us all ready to hit the beachand you were in D-Day right,
yeah, june 4th 1944, Utah Beach.
They put us on a big boat.
We didn't know where it wasgoing.
We crossed the English Channelfrom Ireland and we were hit the
(00:48):
beach.
We didn't know we were hit thebeach, but we did.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
They didn't tell you what was you were going to do.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
They didn't tell us nothing, and so all three of us
had all fully packed everythingwe needed to survive, plus our
vehicle and intake and exhaustto keep running in the water.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
You, your motorcycle.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, and they had landing barges along side of the
beach where you came down andyou used to get your whole
outfit.
You sat in that landing craftthat he took off for the beach.
But anyhow, we come in withthese big boats and we stopped
and it just kept rocking.
All of a sudden we got all theokay, you guys, it lined all up
(01:34):
and this, and that they gotgreat big ropes, ropes Over the
side.
How are we going to get down toHollins?
You'll find out.
Get a rope, get the rope, getoverboard and go down on the
rope.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Into the water.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Into the landing parts.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Oh, this is when you're loading into the beach.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, when we hit the beach with the boat, then we
get off the boat and land andyou go back and forth and you
have to stick your feet out likethat because you slam up
against the side of that bigboat the further you get in.
Your landing craft was about asbig as this room by the long
and they had all our vehiclesfrom our squad on there.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
And you were at military police yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
And everything was Did you all have motorcycles.
Well, we had Jeeps, and we hada couple of command cars, okay,
but mostly Jeeps and motorcycles.
And so we were all sittingthere, all ready.
Two stems, one intake, oneexhaust.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
And these were how tall to get above the water.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
They were 10, 12 feet high above the motorcycle For
each motorcycle.
Yeah, Wow.
So it shows you what theyexpected you to go in the water.
We got in there, everything setand okay, Boom, Off they went.
And the guy that was driving anArctic I think he was afraid to
hit the beach.
He must have stopped at about90 foot of salt water and threw
(03:05):
the ramp down and off we went.
Oh, it went all over.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
So you drove your motorcycle from the landing
craft down into the water, intothe water up on the beach.
Were you completely submergedor mostly submerged?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Almost.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
No, I was soaking wet and the good thing it was in
June because it was warm.
Yeah, right, right and thenthere's a guy standing there,
director shoot.
And we shoot for the Stonehengewalls.
In France, everything is stonewalls, Right, right, and we get
in behind there and then westart stripping everything off.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So you didn't know what you were going into or
where you were going or whatyou'd encounter when you got
there.
We didn't know.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
We didn't know.
Of course, they had guns outthere that could blow the ship
right out of the water.
You know, Right 16-inch 10-inchguns, yeah.
And so the Air Force waspounding them for maybe a week
or so before the landing craft.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
So do you remember what day it was when you landed
what date on the calendar?
Because you said you landed upon June 4th.
I know it was 1944.
Right right, it was in June.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
It was sometime in June because it started on June
4th, and so it could have beenthat we all hit June 4th, so do
you remember being afraid?
I tell you I was like, and mybuddy says.
He said are you scared of thiswar?
He said I'm going to tell yousomething, boy.
He said I'm so scared thebullet passed me the first time.
(04:40):
The second time I passed thebullet.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
But when you were in that landing gear or you were in
the landing craft, how you felt.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
You know how you felt .
Am I going to make the beach?
That's how you felt.
Are you going to make it to thebeach, are you?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
going to make it to the beach, so you weren't
worried about once you got there, just about whether you Once.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I got on the beach behind a wall, then I could
figure out maneuvering yeah.
Once I got on the beach behindthe wall, then I could figure
out maneuvering yeah.
But there you are, exposed inthe water hitting the beach.
Are you going to make the beach?
Because there was bodiesfloating around like cigars in
the water.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
You were on a Harley Davidson right and did you have
your dog with you at that time?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
No, I met the dog when we were in there for about
six, seven months, okay, and wewere in a certain about six,
seven months, okay, and we werein a certain area of cause, and
then there was a dog.
He's sitting there watching me.
He's hungry Is this in France.
No, it's in Germany.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Oh, by the way, you've already been to Germany.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
And I thought well, you know, it's one of them
German dogs, so you've got towatch out there.
And so I figured, well, I'mgoing to do it.
That much I don't want to seehim get killed.
So I lifted him up and put himon the carrier on the back of
the motorcycle and he sat withhis paws on the seat.
So I got on and I fell his pawsin here, and the faster we go,
(05:57):
the tighter the paws are.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
So his paws would grip you from the back.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah.
He would sit behind me.
He'd sit behind me on the steelluggage car.
He'd just hold on.
Huh, he'd just hold on.
No, he'd hold on, he'd fall off.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Did you name the dog?
Huh, did you have a name forhim?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, auschiespiel.
I mean, he's all played out,all played out.
We were riding one night afterI met my brother.
He was with me.
And which brother was this.
Art.
Art was Art drove a truck.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Tell the story how you guys met.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Well, he drove a truck from the mainland inland
and delivered all kinds of stuffArtillery, food, everything and
he happened to come throughthis town.
They were barreling throughthat town 60 miles an hour.
So the old man says no more ofthat.
They slow down to 35 or elsewe're going to get.
He turned down the dirt roadand this was in August.
(06:55):
It was hotter than afirecracker and I'm sweating.
Is this Germany?
Germany or France, and the dogis right down his head down.
All I could see was my eyeswhen he kicks the dust.
So he finally pulled over andstopped and before I could get
over the motorcycle, somebodyslapped me on the back and the
(07:16):
dog growled he must have.
How did that dog know he was mybrother, you know?
And here was my brother Art.
I said why you sucker?
I was glad to see him.
So we spent two weeks together.
I said hey, you gotta go backto your old man.
So they gave you your speed.
(07:37):
So I said whenever he does that, so you're here.
So I said okay.
So I went back and the old mansays to me well, who's this wise
guy?
I said my younger brother.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
What.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Well, he said we can't do much to younger
brothers, but we can make themwork.
So he says to my brother youknow where there's any?
The Germans used to leave thewashing machines they used to
wash the vehicle.
He said you know where one ofthose washing machines is?
He said yeah, I saw one.
He said that's what I want,that's your job, and until you
(08:16):
get they went over here, you'renot going to get away with it.
So okay, well, he got one,brought it in and we took it off
.
The last night, before he wasgone, we were riding down an old
road and they start yellingagain.
So we pulled into an old housedown in the basement.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I could still see the water and the rocks and the dog
.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
This was in Germany or France, in Germany, okay, and
the dog he's behind me and he'spulling up tighter, I said, oh,
something's going to happen andhe could sense them.
They're starting to shell uswith artillery.
When they hit me it soundedlike a load of lumber Plop and
(09:02):
he went ready to go and Igrabbed him and so I said said
let him go because I can't takehim home, so we'll see what
happens next.
Couple of boom and he took off,never come back.
They must have hit him.
I was glad of that, because Ididn't know what to do when I
(09:22):
was coming back home, you know.
So that's when I spent a lot.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
So that was so.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
He was with you for a couple weeks, and that was the
last time you had your dog, yeah, and so that's the night I told
him.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Had you not seen him at all before you encountered
him?
No, when he came through thattown.
When he came through that townand he jumped out of the truck
before you could come around andslap you in the back?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
No, well, he pulled down the dirt road Right and the
dust yeah, it was hot, yeah,and it was building up on me.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
He didn't recognize you.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
No, I didn't.
He knew who I was, but I didn'tknow who he was because I could
only see the back Okay of halfof his head through the window
and he pulled over and stopped.
I said no.
So I went and kind of stoppedit and I went to get off like
that to hold the dog there.
Oh, he hits me on the back.
Oh boy, we're going to havetrouble here.
(10:14):
And sure enough it was him.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, what did you guys talk about?
I mean, you know you were inthe war for a number of years,
but did you talk about with Artor anybody else?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
just the severity.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Did you talk about things to take your mind off the
war, or did you talk about theseverity of?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
the situation.
I talked about things back homewith him because he was going
to Antswani, who was twice asold as him, and so I tried to
convince him.
But I should have kept my mouthshut, he told me.
He said mind your own damnbusiness.
I said okay.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
In general, though, as a soldier, when you had
conversations with the other men, did you try to remember things
back home?
Did you talk about currentsituations or what might be
happening in the future, or didyou share your feelings?
Most Do you remember any ofthat.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Just worried about where we were going the next day
and how bad it was.
We used to sleep in the oldwooden houses that night and
they found out, said they weredropping bombs on the house and
killed a lot of men that way.
So we had to sleep outside onthe ground.
That's it on the ground.
Or we'd get pine trees andyou'd take the limbs and make
(11:25):
some kind of mattress to lay onit, and that was the way we went
.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
What was the toughest situation you recall?
Battle or encounter.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I never really had toughness.
I had nothing to scare me afterdeath.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I'd come around the corner one day and I thought I
was in my territory.
I come around the corner andthere's a King Tiger tank German
.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
A tank.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
A gun that looked that big, you know you could
almost put your head in there.
And it's sitting there,nobody's saying nothing.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Were you by yourself.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, I was on my motorcycle.
I was most of the time bymyself, make connections between
my guys and fix.
So I shut it down and I justsat there and I look, I look,
while I was sitting there myself, somebody's got to make a move.
So I get up and walk in.
It's empty, nobody, nobody's inthe tank.
I've been blessed all the waythrough.
(12:27):
Yeah, I've been giveneverything.
I've been given my wife, I'vebeen given this and given that.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, you've earned a lot too.
Yeah, especially with thesituation you grew up in.
But let's go back to the warfor a little bit longer.
We don't have to stay there toolong.
So you encountered an emptytank what other type of?
But what other encounters orthings where you thought, man,
(13:01):
maybe this is the end.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Well, I used to.
I rode with Patton for a while.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
General Patton.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
And I used to run for messages and stuff like that
direct traffic and we'd come tothe Siegfried line.
That was with the teeth.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah.
And he stopped there and he'slooking around from there and
said you whistled, Pattonwhistled for you.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
He says, go back a quarter of a mile and tell them
to get two tanks with blades on.
I thought he's like no, Come upthere.
He got about 500 yards awayfrom him and the tanks stopped
pushing dirt.
He pushed the dirt road rightover there, All the tanks.
(13:57):
That's why that guy was smart.
He used to think.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Like an engineer.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Got the whole outfit right over there and they spent
two, three years building it all.
He was smart.
Yeah, I appreciate him becausehe was a smart man, but he had a
big mouth.
That's the trouble with him.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
But you came up.
Somehow you got a German Lugerright.
Wasn't there a company orsomething that you were on your
bike and they surrendered no, Icome on another road.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
We were not too far off.
We was about a quarter of amile from a concentration camp
or a camp where they put all theGerman prisoners.
And I come around this cornergoing out some places, whoa,
where they put all the Germanprisoners.
And I come around this cornergoing out some places, whoa
there's a lieutenant and about18 men all in line, fully armed,
(14:51):
pistols and everything.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
In formation.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
When I come around the corner, I just drop down,
you know.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
You slid your bike, or is that what you mean?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
No, I just slowed down and stopped.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
And he says he threw up his hands and said we want to
surrender.
Before I could even say it, hesaid that in English.
He did.
Wow, the German.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, well, some of them had to learn American,
though.
He said what do I do?
And all the men, they werelooking, they were wondering
what's going to happen.
I don't blame them.
I said well, the first thingyou do, you take all your
bayonets and your guns andeverything off and you throw
them in the ditch and insidethere, Boy, they took them off
(15:38):
and everything else, and I saidall your medals and stuff.
You appreciate.
So I can't help you with that,but the guys probably in the
concentration camp they wouldgrab them.
You know all this.
So here I am, I got about 40men, the lieutenant and the
whole squad, and we're comingaround the corner to the
(16:01):
concentration camp.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Were they following you on your motorcycle?
I?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
told them they had to sort of run because I couldn't
go too slow.
Come around the corner andthere's those guys.
Hey, look at Bueller, he'scaptured by the whole squad.
They surrendered to him.
So I said what are they do withall this stuff?
I said it's back there aroundthe corner.
(16:28):
They run like anything.
Back there.
They get their Lugers orsomething you know the Soviet
and the Germans.
They smile on their face thatbig.
I said to one of them why?
I said the lieutenant, he talkpretty good English.
Why are you slandering?
He said we had no hope,sergeant.
(16:48):
We had no hope.
What do we have hope?
We keep going to get killed.
So we all got together.
We decided we were going toturn ourselves in.
It might be scary, but insteadof we meet you.
I said well, that's good, I'mglad.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, so you took them to a camp, a prison camp,
that the American or the Allieshad the Americans Allies.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
They had a great big area where they put the captured
Germans in In Germany.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, this was in Germany.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
It was toward the end of the war, do you remember?
I?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
don't know whether it was in Germany.
It was toward the end of thewar, do you?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
remember I don't know whether it was in Germany or in
parts of France or something,but it was someplace around the
Battle of the Bows.
They had a big area.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Okay, so that was about the time when this
happened.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, that was about the time when it was coming to
an end.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
And then, guys, boy, they rooted me for about a month
after.
Did you get commendation forthat?
Did you get a medal, or did youget?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
any, I got booed for that.
Yeah, I got it.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
But you stayed alive.
Did you think they were goingto kill you?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, you know what?
I was alive, that's right, andI thought, maybe if those guys
were, how could they get outthat far?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Why don't we notice Right?
So you encountered a tank thatwas empty.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
And then another time you encountered a squadron of
men who surrendered.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Battle of the Bulge was pretty fierce, pretty bloody
.
Any memories or feelings thatyou have?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
No, it's just that you see so many dead people.
And then we had for two weekswe had to go around collecting
dead bodies and they found outthat we were doing it, the
Germans.
So they used to.
They used to load their bodiesdead bodies with ammunition to
(18:42):
kill you, right?
So we used to.
We had a rope with a hook treeprong hook.
We used to throw it, throw itout there and then pull it back
and hook the body and shake it,and if it didn't go off, we'd go
pick it up.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Would sometimes explosives go off on the bodies?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Oh yeah, we had a couple of guys who was hurt in
Japan.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, Now do you remember riding into Berlin?
I?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
didn't go into Berlin , you didn't go to Berlin, never
went to Berlin.
Okay, in Belgium areaLuxembourg, belgium, france.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Parts of Germany at times.
That's where the Battle ofBelgium yeah yeah, was that the
worst battle that you were inthat you remember?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Cold, wet Tread, frozen feet Soaked up to here.
You had nothing dry to put on,nothing dry.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
What kind of gear Do you remember?
Your gear like your weapons andyour, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I had a machine gun On a motorcycle.
I had a big case with a machinegun, a Thompson machine gun.
It fired about 80 rounds aminute, wow, and it had the big
bullets and that sucker wouldjerk your head off and you'd
hold on to it, onto it.
But I never used it.
I never used it.
I had an American pistol .45cold pistol and you couldn't
(20:12):
kill an elephant with it becausewhen you shot it it went up in
the air.
So we used to use the GermanLuger.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
The Luger the German, you just pull like that Smooth.
The Luger was the one.
And then Wayne still got it.
Yeah, my Luger the German, youjust pull like that Smooth.
The Luger was the one.
And then Wayne still got myLuger and I pulled the firing
pin out and ground it off.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Art was in logistics delivery supply chain and Gene
was in the Air Force right Genewas a B-17 shot down.
Was he a gunner or a pilot?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah, he was a gunner .
Speaker 1 (20:43):
And he was a prisoner of war right 11 months.
In Germany.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Sure, he came out of there.
He was under 90 pounds whenthey rescued him.
Wow, and they treated him.
Oh, he didn't talk much, but Idon't blame him.
He said there was 11 men in thesize of a one-car garage.
That's where they slept.
He said they had a gallon canof whatever he could get in
(21:13):
there for heat.
And he said they half starvedyou all day long and trying to
work you as much as they can.
He never talked much about it.
What he suffered from, I stillsay that's what caused his early
death.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah, yeah, the trauma from that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
What about?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
what was Fred's role?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Fred was anti-gun.
He had one position someplacein Paris or in France.
It was an anti-gun man.
He shot aircraft, so he didn'tmove much.
Oh, okay, so Art and I was theguys that moved and Gene was
B-17.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Was that your choice to be an MP, or how did that
work out?
Was that something throughtraining?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I went in in the infantry.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I went into infantry, the 8th Division infantry
division, and there were, Ithink it was about 40 men in the
barracks and they gave us guns.
They gave us half a broomstick.
That was a rifle.
They didn't have enough riflesfor us, wow.
(22:30):
So we trained.
I trained for three months withthat boomstick and the infantry
and I thought, oh boy, I don'tlike this idea.
So one day they come in and saidwe were interested in men that
know anything about motorcycles.
I said I do.
(22:51):
He said what do you know aboutit?
I said, well, I used to foolaround with them.
I'd fix them and get in a rideonce in a while.
He said, yeah, out here, I'llstand outside, we'll be with you
right away.
So I said, holy muckle, what'sgoing on here?
So they ought to my wholecompany.
They got about nine guys Well,actually only six or so really
(23:20):
rode motorcycles.
So they said go in theheadquarters with me.
We got on a van and we took allour stuff.
And we got on a van and we tookall our stuff and we got on a
van and they took us toheadquarters and company.
I don't know what it was, butthat's where the MPs.
Where was this South Carolina.
(23:40):
So then they started askingquestions.
They signed a motorcycle foreach of us and then they said to
me would you be interested inmechanics?
I said yes.
They sent me to Fort Benning,georgia, for three months to
(24:03):
learn a motor and a motorcycle.
And so when I was in charge ofthe squad, so when they broke
down someplace, they'd give mean idea where they might be and
I'd go after them.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
This was in training, or this was actually in the war
.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
This was in Germany, oh, in the war yeah.
And they used to run amotorcycle, but they couldn't
run it no more.
So I figured see, on thetransmission there's a little
gear and on the wheel it's a biggear that makes the speed.
And they were get together andthey were having races and they
(24:38):
were stripping that little gear.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
During the war.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah.
So the old man said to me.
He said, george, what's goingon?
I said, well, they're strippingthe gear on the transmission.
He said what would do that?
I said, george, what's going on?
I said, well, they're strippingthe gear on the transmission.
He said what would do that?
I said they're racing.
Oh, he went through the roof.
He said get all of them, getthem in here.
(25:01):
I want to talk to them.
He said I understand that youguys are racing and I understand
that you're racing and youcan't go to war.
And I understand that Bueller'sgot to go out there and put a
new sparking gear on thetransmission.
That's got to stop right now,he said.
(25:22):
And the next one I hearactually did that back at the
squad at infantry, so I didn'thave to work so much.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
So being an MP was really a privilege.
Most guys considered it aprivilege, right.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
When I was in camp in Tennessee we're in Tennessee in
temps and I used to have to goout there in the morning and
direct that main traffic square.
You know traffic.
And here comes this three-starJap, pulls right up and says
(25:59):
Soldier.
He says what are you from?
I said from the MP SarayDivision.
He says what's your squadleader's name or your officer's
name?
I told him okay.
He says thank you very much.
He says I like what you looklike.
Calls up the squad leader.
(26:19):
He chose me to try on a brandnew outfit they're going to use
on the desert.
I said why me?
He said because every time Icome past here he says you look
like you had a new uniform onwhat do you do?
I said why me?
He said because every time Icome past here he said you look
like you had a new uniform on.
What do you do?
I said I take care of them, sir.
I keep them nice and hang them.
He chose me to wear them.
(26:40):
So he looked at the thing andall over it I've got pictures of
it someplace.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, I've seen them yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
You look sharp and he said I thank you.
He said you're very impressiveas a soldier.
I said thank you, sir.
Obviously a big part of your life and a big part of
the world.
The history of the world andour society is World War II.
I know you growing up.
I know you didn't talk aboutthat a lot.
It was a tragic and traumatictime, but some stories maybe
that you'd like to shareincluding how you encountered,
(00:21):
randomly and surprisingly, yourbrother, brother Art you want to
share.
We were shipped to Ireland.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
We stayed in Ireland for three months before they got
us all ready to hit the beachand you were in D-Day right,
yeah, june 4th 1944, Utah Beach.
They put us on a big boat.
We didn't know where it wasgoing.
We crossed the English Channelfrom Ireland and we were hit the
(00:48):
beach.
We didn't know we were hit thebeach, but we did.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
They didn't tell you what was you were going to do.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
They didn't tell us nothing, and so all three of us
had all fully packed everythingwe needed to survive, plus our
vehicle and intake and exhaustto keep running in the water.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
You, your motorcycle.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, and they had landing barges along side of the
beach where you came down andyou used to get your whole
outfit.
You sat in that landing craftthat he took off for the beach.
But anyhow, we come in withthese big boats and we stopped
and it just kept rocking.
All of a sudden we got all theokay, you guys, it lined all up
(01:34):
and this, and that they gotgreat big ropes, ropes Over the
side.
How are we going to get down toHollins?
You'll find out.
Get a rope, get the rope, getoverboard and go down on the
rope.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Into the water.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Into the landing parts.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Oh, this is when you're loading into the beach.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, when we hit the beach with the boat, then we
get off the boat and land andyou go back and forth and you
have to stick your feet out likethat because you slam up
against the side of that bigboat the further you get in.
Your landing craft was about asbig as this room by the long
and they had all our vehiclesfrom our squad on there.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
And you were at military police yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
And everything was Did you all have motorcycles.
Well, we had Jeeps, and we hada couple of command cars, okay,
but mostly Jeeps and motorcycles.
And so we were all sittingthere, all ready.
Two stems, one intake, oneexhaust.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
And these were how tall to get above the water.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
They were 10, 12 feet high above the motorcycle For
each motorcycle.
Yeah, Wow.
So it shows you what theyexpected you to go in the water.
We got in there, everything setand okay, Boom, Off they went.
And the guy that was driving anArctic I think he was afraid to
hit the beach.
He must have stopped at about90 foot of salt water and threw
(03:05):
the ramp down and off we went.
Oh, it went all over.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
So you drove your motorcycle from the landing
craft down into the water, intothe water up on the beach.
Were you completely submergedor mostly submerged?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Almost.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
No, I was soaking wet and the good thing it was in
June because it was warm.
Yeah, right, right and thenthere's a guy standing there,
director shoot.
And we shoot for the Stonehengewalls.
In France, everything is stonewalls, Right, right, and we get
in behind there and then westart stripping everything off.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So you didn't know what you were going into or
where you were going or whatyou'd encounter when you got
there.
We didn't know.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
We didn't know.
Of course, they had guns outthere that could blow the ship
right out of the water.
You know, Right 16-inch 10-inchguns, yeah.
And so the Air Force waspounding them for maybe a week
or so before the landing craft.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
So do you remember what day it was when you landed
what date on the calendar?
Because you said you landed upon June 4th.
I know it was 1944.
Right right, it was in June.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
It was sometime in June because it started on June
4th, and so it could have beenthat we all hit June 4th, so do
you remember being afraid?
I tell you I was like, and mybuddy says.
He said are you scared of thiswar?
He said I'm going to tell yousomething, boy.
He said I'm so scared thebullet passed me the first time.
(04:40):
The second time I passed thebullet.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
But when you were in that landing gear or you were in
the landing craft, how you felt.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
You know how you felt .
Am I going to make the beach?
That's how you felt.
Are you going to make it to thebeach, are you?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
going to make it to the beach, so you weren't
worried about once you got there, just about whether you Once.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I got on the beach behind a wall, then I could
figure out maneuvering yeah.
Once I got on the beach behindthe wall, then I could figure
out maneuvering yeah.
But there you are, exposed inthe water hitting the beach.
Are you going to make the beach?
Because there was bodiesfloating around like cigars in
the water.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
You were on a Harley Davidson right and did you have
your dog with you at that time?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
No, I met the dog when we were in there for about
six, seven months, okay, and wewere in a certain about six,
seven months, okay, and we werein a certain area of cause, and
then there was a dog.
He's sitting there watching me.
He's hungry Is this in France.
No, it's in Germany.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Oh, by the way, you've already been to Germany.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
And I thought well, you know, it's one of them
German dogs, so you've got towatch out there.
And so I figured, well, I'mgoing to do it.
That much I don't want to seehim get killed.
So I lifted him up and put himon the carrier on the back of
the motorcycle and he sat withhis paws on the seat.
So I got on and I fell his pawsin here, and the faster we go,
(05:57):
the tighter the paws are.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
So his paws would grip you from the back.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah.
He would sit behind me.
He'd sit behind me on the steelluggage car.
He'd just hold on.
Huh, he'd just hold on.
No, he'd hold on, he'd fall off.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Did you name the dog?
Huh, did you have a name forhim?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, auschiespiel.
I mean, he's all played out,all played out.
We were riding one night afterI met my brother.
He was with me.
And which brother was this.
Art.
Art was Art drove a truck.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Tell the story how you guys met.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Well, he drove a truck from the mainland inland
and delivered all kinds of stuffArtillery, food, everything and
he happened to come throughthis town.
They were barreling throughthat town 60 miles an hour.
So the old man says no more ofthat.
They slow down to 35 or elsewe're going to get.
He turned down the dirt roadand this was in August.
(06:55):
It was hotter than afirecracker and I'm sweating.
Is this Germany?
Germany or France, and the dogis right down his head down.
All I could see was my eyeswhen he kicks the dust.
So he finally pulled over andstopped and before I could get
over the motorcycle, somebodyslapped me on the back and the
(07:16):
dog growled he must have.
How did that dog know he was mybrother, you know?
And here was my brother Art.
I said why you sucker?
I was glad to see him.
So we spent two weeks together.
I said hey, you gotta go backto your old man.
So they gave you your speed.
(07:37):
So I said whenever he does that, so you're here.
So I said okay.
So I went back and the old mansays to me well, who's this wise
guy?
I said my younger brother.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
What.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Well, he said we can't do much to younger
brothers, but we can make themwork.
So he says to my brother youknow where there's any?
The Germans used to leave thewashing machines they used to
wash the vehicle.
He said you know where one ofthose washing machines is?
He said yeah, I saw one.
He said that's what I want,that's your job, and until you
(08:16):
get they went over here, you'renot going to get away with it.
So okay, well, he got one,brought it in and we took it off
.
The last night, before he wasgone, we were riding down an old
road and they start yellingagain.
So we pulled into an old housedown in the basement.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I could still see the water and the rocks and the dog
.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
This was in Germany or France, in Germany, okay, and
the dog he's behind me and he'spulling up tighter, I said, oh,
something's going to happen andhe could sense them.
They're starting to shell uswith artillery.
When they hit me it soundedlike a load of lumber Plop and
(09:02):
he went ready to go and Igrabbed him and so I said said
let him go because I can't takehim home, so we'll see what
happens next.
Couple of boom and he took off,never come back.
They must have hit him.
I was glad of that, because Ididn't know what to do when I
(09:22):
was coming back home, you know.
So that's when I spent a lot.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
So that was so.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
He was with you for a couple weeks, and that was the
last time you had your dog, yeah, and so that's the night I told
him.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Had you not seen him at all before you encountered
him?
No, when he came through thattown.
When he came through that townand he jumped out of the truck
before you could come around andslap you in the back?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
No, well, he pulled down the dirt road Right and the
dust yeah, it was hot, yeah,and it was building up on me.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
He didn't recognize you.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
No, I didn't.
He knew who I was, but I didn'tknow who he was because I could
only see the back Okay of halfof his head through the window
and he pulled over and stopped.
I said no.
So I went and kind of stoppedit and I went to get off like
that to hold the dog there.
Oh, he hits me on the back.
Oh boy, we're going to havetrouble here.
(10:14):
And sure enough it was him.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, what did you guys talk about?
I mean, you know you were inthe war for a number of years,
but did you talk about with Artor anybody else?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
just the severity.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Did you talk about things to take your mind off the
war, or did you talk about theseverity of?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
the situation.
I talked about things back homewith him because he was going
to Antswani, who was twice asold as him, and so I tried to
convince him.
But I should have kept my mouthshut, he told me.
He said mind your own damnbusiness.
I said okay.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
In general, though, as a soldier, when you had
conversations with the other men, did you try to remember things
back home?
Did you talk about currentsituations or what might be
happening in the future, or didyou share your feelings?
Most Do you remember any ofthat.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Just worried about where we were going the next day
and how bad it was.
We used to sleep in the oldwooden houses that night and
they found out, said they weredropping bombs on the house and
killed a lot of men that way.
So we had to sleep outside onthe ground.
That's it on the ground.
Or we'd get pine trees andyou'd take the limbs and make
(11:25):
some kind of mattress to lay onit, and that was the way we went
.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
What was the toughest situation you recall?
Battle or encounter.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I never really had toughness.
I had nothing to scare me afterdeath.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I'd come around the corner one day and I thought I
was in my territory.
I come around the corner andthere's a King Tiger tank German
.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
A tank.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
A gun that looked that big, you know you could
almost put your head in there.
And it's sitting there,nobody's saying nothing.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Were you by yourself.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, I was on my motorcycle.
I was most of the time bymyself, make connections between
my guys and fix.
So I shut it down and I justsat there and I look, I look,
while I was sitting there myself, somebody's got to make a move.
So I get up and walk in.
It's empty, nobody, nobody's inthe tank.
I've been blessed all the waythrough.
(12:27):
Yeah, I've been giveneverything.
I've been given my wife, I'vebeen given this and given that.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, you've earned a lot too.
Yeah, especially with thesituation you grew up in.
But let's go back to the warfor a little bit longer.
We don't have to stay there toolong.
So you encountered an emptytank what other type of?
But what other encounters orthings where you thought, man,
(13:01):
maybe this is the end.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Well, I used to.
I rode with Patton for a while.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
General Patton.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
And I used to run for messages and stuff like that
direct traffic and we'd come tothe Siegfried line.
That was with the teeth.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah.
And he stopped there and he'slooking around from there and
said you whistled, Pattonwhistled for you.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
He says, go back a quarter of a mile and tell them
to get two tanks with blades on.
I thought he's like no, Come upthere.
He got about 500 yards awayfrom him and the tanks stopped
pushing dirt.
He pushed the dirt road rightover there, All the tanks.
(13:57):
That's why that guy was smart.
He used to think.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Like an engineer.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Got the whole outfit right over there and they spent
two, three years building it all.
He was smart.
Yeah, I appreciate him becausehe was a smart man, but he had a
big mouth.
That's the trouble with him.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
But you came up.
Somehow you got a German Lugerright.
Wasn't there a company orsomething that you were on your
bike and they surrendered no, Icome on another road.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
We were not too far off.
We was about a quarter of amile from a concentration camp
or a camp where they put all theGerman prisoners.
And I come around this cornergoing out some places, whoa,
where they put all the Germanprisoners.
And I come around this cornergoing out some places, whoa
there's a lieutenant and about18 men all in line, fully armed,
(14:51):
pistols and everything.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
In formation.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
When I come around the corner, I just drop down,
you know.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
You slid your bike, or is that what you mean?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
No, I just slowed down and stopped.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
And he says he threw up his hands and said we want to
surrender.
Before I could even say it, hesaid that in English.
He did.
Wow, the German.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, well, some of them had to learn American,
though.
He said what do I do?
And all the men, they werelooking, they were wondering
what's going to happen.
I don't blame them.
I said well, the first thingyou do, you take all your
bayonets and your guns andeverything off and you throw
them in the ditch and insidethere, Boy, they took them off
(15:38):
and everything else, and I saidall your medals and stuff.
You appreciate.
So I can't help you with that,but the guys probably in the
concentration camp they wouldgrab them.
You know all this.
So here I am, I got about 40men, the lieutenant and the
whole squad, and we're comingaround the corner to the
(16:01):
concentration camp.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Were they following you on your motorcycle?
I?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
told them they had to sort of run because I couldn't
go too slow.
Come around the corner andthere's those guys.
Hey, look at Bueller, he'scaptured by the whole squad.
They surrendered to him.
So I said what are they do withall this stuff?
I said it's back there aroundthe corner.
(16:28):
They run like anything.
Back there.
They get their Lugers orsomething you know the Soviet
and the Germans.
They smile on their face thatbig.
I said to one of them why?
I said the lieutenant, he talkpretty good English.
Why are you slandering?
He said we had no hope,sergeant.
(16:48):
We had no hope.
What do we have hope?
We keep going to get killed.
So we all got together.
We decided we were going toturn ourselves in.
It might be scary, but insteadof we meet you.
I said well, that's good, I'mglad.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, so you took them to a camp, a prison camp,
that the American or the Allieshad the Americans Allies.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
They had a great big area where they put the captured
Germans in In Germany.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, this was in Germany.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
It was toward the end of the war, do you remember?
I?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
don't know whether it was in Germany.
It was toward the end of thewar, do you?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
remember I don't know whether it was in Germany or in
parts of France or something,but it was someplace around the
Battle of the Bows.
They had a big area.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Okay, so that was about the time when this
happened.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, that was about the time when it was coming to
an end.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
And then, guys, boy, they rooted me for about a month
after.
Did you get commendation forthat?
Did you get a medal, or did youget?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
any, I got booed for that.
Yeah, I got it.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
But you stayed alive.
Did you think they were goingto kill you?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, you know what?
I was alive, that's right, andI thought, maybe if those guys
were, how could they get outthat far?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Why don't we notice Right?
So you encountered a tank thatwas empty.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
And then another time you encountered a squadron of
men who surrendered.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Battle of the Bulge was pretty fierce, pretty bloody
.
Any memories or feelings thatyou have?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
No, it's just that you see so many dead people.
And then we had for two weekswe had to go around collecting
dead bodies and they found outthat we were doing it, the
Germans.
So they used to.
They used to load their bodiesdead bodies with ammunition to
(18:42):
kill you, right?
So we used to.
We had a rope with a hook treeprong hook.
We used to throw it, throw itout there and then pull it back
and hook the body and shake it,and if it didn't go off, we'd go
pick it up.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Would sometimes explosives go off on the bodies?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Oh yeah, we had a couple of guys who was hurt in
Japan.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, Now do you remember riding into Berlin?
I?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
didn't go into Berlin , you didn't go to Berlin, never
went to Berlin.
Okay, in Belgium areaLuxembourg, belgium, france.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Parts of Germany at times.
That's where the Battle ofBelgium yeah yeah, was that the
worst battle that you were inthat you remember?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Cold, wet Tread, frozen feet Soaked up to here.
You had nothing dry to put on,nothing dry.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
What kind of gear Do you remember?
Your gear like your weapons andyour, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I had a machine gun On a motorcycle.
I had a big case with a machinegun, a Thompson machine gun.
It fired about 80 rounds aminute, wow, and it had the big
bullets and that sucker wouldjerk your head off and you'd
hold on to it, onto it.
But I never used it.
I never used it.
I had an American pistol .45cold pistol and you couldn't
(20:12):
kill an elephant with it becausewhen you shot it it went up in
the air.
So we used to use the GermanLuger.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
The Luger the German, you just pull like that Smooth.
The Luger was the one.
And then Wayne still got it.
Yeah, my Luger the German, youjust pull like that Smooth.
The Luger was the one.
And then Wayne still got myLuger and I pulled the firing
pin out and ground it off.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Art was in logistics delivery supply chain and Gene
was in the Air Force right Genewas a B-17 shot down.
Was he a gunner or a pilot?
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah, he was a gunner .
Speaker 1 (20:43):
And he was a prisoner of war right 11 months.
In Germany.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Sure, he came out of there.
He was under 90 pounds whenthey rescued him.
Wow, and they treated him.
Oh, he didn't talk much, but Idon't blame him.
He said there was 11 men in thesize of a one-car garage.
That's where they slept.
He said they had a gallon canof whatever he could get in
(21:13):
there for heat.
And he said they half starvedyou all day long and trying to
work you as much as they can.
He never talked much about it.
What he suffered from, I stillsay that's what caused his early
death.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah, yeah, the trauma from that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
What about?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
what was Fred's role?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Fred was anti-gun.
He had one position someplacein Paris or in France.
It was an anti-gun man.
He shot aircraft, so he didn'tmove much.
Oh, okay, so Art and I was theguys that moved and Gene was
B-17.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Was that your choice to be an MP, or how did that
work out?
Was that something throughtraining?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I went in in the infantry.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I went into infantry, the 8th Division infantry
division, and there were, Ithink it was about 40 men in the
barracks and they gave us guns.
They gave us half a broomstick.
That was a rifle.
They didn't have enough riflesfor us, wow.
(22:30):
So we trained.
I trained for three months withthat boomstick and the infantry
and I thought, oh boy, I don'tlike this idea.
So one day they come in and saidwe were interested in men that
know anything about motorcycles.
I said I do.
(22:51):
He said what do you know aboutit?
I said, well, I used to foolaround with them.
I'd fix them and get in a rideonce in a while.
He said, yeah, out here, I'llstand outside, we'll be with you
right away.
So I said, holy muckle, what'sgoing on here?
So they ought to my wholecompany.
They got about nine guys Well,actually only six or so really
(23:20):
rode motorcycles.
So they said go in theheadquarters with me.
We got on a van and we took allour stuff.
And we got on a van and we tookall our stuff and we got on a
van and they took us toheadquarters and company.
I don't know what it was, butthat's where the MPs.
Where was this South Carolina.
(23:40):
So then they started askingquestions.
They signed a motorcycle foreach of us and then they said to
me would you be interested inmechanics?
I said yes.
They sent me to Fort Benning,georgia, for three months to
(24:03):
learn a motor and a motorcycle.
And so when I was in charge ofthe squad, so when they broke
down someplace, they'd give mean idea where they might be and
I'd go after them.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
This was in training, or this was actually in the war
.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
This was in Germany, oh, in the war yeah.
And they used to run amotorcycle, but they couldn't
run it no more.
So I figured see, on thetransmission there's a little
gear and on the wheel it's a biggear that makes the speed.
And they were get together andthey were having races and they
(24:38):
were stripping that little gear.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
During the war.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah.
So the old man said to me.
He said, george, what's goingon?
I said, well, they're strippingthe gear on the transmission.
He said what would do that?
I said, george, what's going on?
I said, well, they're strippingthe gear on the transmission.
He said what would do that?
I said they're racing.
Oh, he went through the roof.
He said get all of them, getthem in here.
(25:01):
I want to talk to them.
He said I understand that youguys are racing and I understand
that you're racing and youcan't go to war.
And I understand that Bueller'sgot to go out there and put a
new sparking gear on thetransmission.
That's got to stop right now,he said.
(25:22):
And the next one I hearactually did that back at the
squad at infantry, so I didn'thave to work so much.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
So being an MP was really a privilege.
Most guys considered it aprivilege, right.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
When I was in camp in Tennessee we're in Tennessee in
temps and I used to have to goout there in the morning and
direct that main traffic square.
You know traffic.
And here comes this three-starJap, pulls right up and says
(25:59):
Soldier.
He says what are you from?
I said from the MP SarayDivision.
He says what's your squadleader's name or your officer's
name?
I told him okay.
He says thank you very much.
He says I like what you looklike.
Calls up the squad leader.
(26:19):
He chose me to try on a brandnew outfit they're going to use
on the desert.
I said why me?
He said because every time Icome past here he says you look
like you had a new uniform onwhat do you do?
I said why me?
He said because every time Icome past here he said you look
like you had a new uniform on.
What do you do?
I said I take care of them, sir.
I keep them nice and hang them.
He chose me to wear them.
(26:40):
So he looked at the thing andall over it I've got pictures of
it someplace.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, I've seen them yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
You look sharp and he said I thank you.
He said you're very impressiveas a soldier.
I said thank you, sir.
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