April 14, 2025 • 25 mins
Get in Touch with Dan by Texting Now
Reconnecting after 35 years, Dan sits down with Thom Mariner for a fascinating conversation about musical journeys, unexpected career paths, and finding success in Cincinnati's nonprofit publishing world.
Thom opens up about his "confused and twisted life" that began with opera training and has taken him through retail management, B2B sales, music direction, marketing research, and finally to his current role in publishing. With disarming honesty, he shares how a pivotal conversation with his father before ninth grade – "You're not going to be a football star, we think you should be something in music" – set him on his musical path.
The conversation weaves through nostalgic memories of first cars (a Ford Pinto station wagon and later a beloved Saab 900), epic road trips across the Rockies, and the challenges of balancing musical ambitions with practical realities. Thom explains why he and his first wife, both trained singers, chose to pursue "real jobs" while maintaining professional singing opportunities on the side, a decision that has preserved his voice well into his seventies.
At the heart of the episode is Thom’s journey with Movers & Makers magazine, approaching its 30th anniversary as the public voice for Greater Cincinnati nonprofit organizations. What began as a for-profit publication has evolved into a nonprofit platform integrating print, digital, social media, and email newsletters to support causes ranging from animal welfare to social justice, arts, healthcare, and education.
Thom’s life philosophy – "Never say never. Absolutes get you in trouble" – serves as powerful advice for listeners of any age. His biggest regret? Not taking certain chances when they presented themselves. "The worst somebody's gonna do is tell you no," he advises, encouraging everyone to "put yourself out there and be brave."
Ready for a road trip with fascinating conversation? Subscribe to Dan the Road Trip Guy for more inspiring stories of passion, resilience and the pursuit of happiness from everyday travelers to thrill seekers and everyone in between.
Be sure to visit the website for Movers & Makers, https://moversmakers.org/.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Dan the Road Trip Guy.
I'm your host, dan, and eachweek we'll embark on a new
adventure, discovering memoriesand life lessons of our
incredible guests, from everydaytravelers to thrill seekers and
everyone in between.
This podcast is your front rowseat to inspiring stories of
passion, resilience and thepursuit of happiness.
So buckle up and enjoy the ride.
(00:24):
Well, my guest today I haven'tseen in years.
I've known him for probably 35years.
I was thinking about it today.
His name is Tom Mariner.
He's here in Cincinnati.
Tom, when I met him, wasselling something and I don't
(00:45):
remember what he was selling.
But what Tom is really about ismusic and I just remember that
very much about him and I'mabout as non-musical as could be
.
So I'm just excited to talk toTom.
Welcome to the show, tom.
Thanks very much for having me,yeah well, it's a pleasure to
have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I was selling graphic arts supplies and equipment to
feed my musical habit.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
That's what it was.
Yes, I remember that.
Now, take a couple minutes andjust tell them who is Tom
Mariner.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, I've led a confused and twisted life which
has led me through musictraining in opera and voice,
music training in opera andvoice to retail management, to,
as I mentioned, b2b sales in thegraphic arts industry, to music
(01:33):
direction producing, arrangingvoice lessons, to marketing
research for about 12 years, andthen a combination of
publishing, which we've beendoing since 2008, with a little
(01:58):
side stint into running achamber orchestra here in
Cincinnati for a couple of years.
In the midst of all that, socurrently looking to find a way
to wrap up a glorious career.
Final career in the publishingindustry here in Cincinnati.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, we'll get to that and fill my listeners in on
what you really are up to.
I can't remember.
I love to ask people what wasyour first car, and Saab kept
coming back to my mind, but Icould be totally wrong, because
that was about 35 years ago.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Well, and and and you know, about 20 years after I
had my first car.
But the first first car that Iremember learning to drive in
was my dad's 67 Pontiac Le Mans,white, with red interior and
red stripe tires.
Yeah, that was a great car.
(02:46):
I loved that car.
I think the first car I ownedbelieve it or not, was a Ford
Pinto station wagon.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Ah, the Ford Pinto yes.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yes, indeed, indeed, but the car you're talking about
, I think so.
It would have been late 80s.
It was an 86, saab 900, the oldclamshell.
It was just a wonderful carPiece of engineering.
I used to just stand in mygarage and stare at it.
I love that car.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, I remember that Back to that Pinto.
Was that a college car or highschool car?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Oh yeah, college, yeah, just because I was moving
around moving lots of stuff backand forth from home to school
and school elsewhere and thatsort of thing.
So yeah, my dad helped me buythat.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I remember the Pinto, and I didn't see many wagons
though, back in those days.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
No, that's what I liked.
It was unique yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I liked it.
Any fun stories from that PintoUnique.
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Any fun stories from that Pinto.
No, just I got run into prettyhard in a parking lot and that
was the death of the Pinto.
Oh yes, Somebody did not yield,turning left and ran smack into
me.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
In Norwood in the Surrey Square parking lot, the
Pinto, best I remember, had someissues with the gas tanks
exploding.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
They did.
Fortunately, the gas tank wasin the back.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, what are you driving today?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, we live downtown Cincinnati, Actually,
technically kind of Mount Auburn, slash OTR over the Rhine, and
so we only have one car now, andthat's a 2016 Mazda CX-3.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
And we put about 6,000 miles a year on that.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
All right, so you pretty much walk everywhere.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
We walk or ride the bike or something like that.
Yes, indeed, yeah that's cool.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Well, speaking of miles, any epic road trips in
your life, you know, eithergrowing up or later in life you
either went south to Florida,which was a couple days drive,
or we would.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
A lot of people would typically go overnight to
Denver and to the Rockies and soit was about a 14-hour drive
and you'd leave at four in theafternoon and trade off driving
(05:18):
or whatever and arrive early thenext morning in the Rockies.
I and two friends took about athree-week journey I think it
was summer between junior andsenior year of college, but two
friends from my hometown and Iwent out for three weeks of
camping kind of all over theRockies and sleeping in the snow
(05:39):
and all sorts of crazy stuff,even though it was August.
But that was a wonderful trip.
Yeah, you know, I can'tremember whose car we took.
I think it was my friend's car,but the uh, that was the
interesting thing about thatduring that drive and of course
you can get WLS from Chicagomost of the way through Nebraska
, but during that drive that wasthe whole Nixon Watergate
(06:00):
business was all unfoldingduring.
During that the time we weredriving out there and we were
listening to all that news kindof collapse on top of us as we
drove under the stars acrossNebraska.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Wrapped up college.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Boy.
This is where it getscircuitous.
So I finished.
I got two degrees from DePauwUniversity in Greencastle,
indiana.
My first degree was inpsychology, because I couldn't
make up my mind about whether Iwas going to be a musician or
not.
And then I just pretty muchbegged my dad to give me one
(06:36):
more year and I did three yearsof music in one year, okay, and
stayed and finished up myundergrad degree and then came
here to the University ofCincinnati College Conservatory
of Music, better known as CCM.
But after that I went to work inrecord retailing.
I worked for the first realrecord superstore here in town
(06:58):
called Record Theatre, which is15,000 square feet, and I worked
there about five years and thenthat little mini recession that
happened in 1983 necessitatedthe end of my job as the
classical music buyer.
They didn't have a classicalmusic buyer.
After that they eliminated thejob.
So I went to work in theprinting business, which
(07:21):
afforded me a lot of flexibilityand a chance to do professional
singing on the side in theevenings and schedule.
If I needed to be off for along weekend or something like
that, I could work my schedule.
That was the beauty of it.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Now speaking of the music.
Going back, was music always inyour life, as a small child and
then growing up?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Well, I guess I was always musical and my brother
and sister played the piano andthey were in the choirs and
junior high and high school so,and I was quite a bit younger so
I think I emulated them alongthe way.
But somewhere in junior high Istarted to sit down at the end
of the day and just noodlearound at the piano and I had
(08:02):
taken a few years of lessonsfrom elementary school.
But my dad finally sat me downday and just noodle around at
the piano and I had taken a fewyears of lessons in elementary
school.
But my dad finally sat me downin the middle of the summer
before my ninth grade year andsaid you know, we've never given
you any ultimatums.
And he says it's clear, you'renot going to be a football star,
we think you should besomething in music.
You have your choice.
(08:22):
You can be in the band or thechoir, but you have to do one or
the other going forward.
And so that little nudge kind ofgot me into.
I was kind of terrified of theband director.
She was a taskmaster.
Taskmistress, however, yes, andso I joined the choir and the
rest is history.
Yeah, I was so.
(08:44):
In high school I lettered intwo sports and I was the lead
into a lead in two musicals.
It's a very confused young man.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, yeah.
A little nudge from your dad,though, sent you down that kind
of musical journey.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, no, and they were not musical at all.
They just saw something in methey thought needed to be
nurtured.
So hats off to them.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Two letters in sports .
What sports Cross country andtrack.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
All right, I survived one summer training session in
football.
I was like that's all I'm doing.
It's too hard.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I'm going to go out and run fast and sing right.
Yes, exactly, take me a littlemore on that musical journey
then through college, and thenyou mentioned a few things you
were involved in.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Well, the best things about being involved in music
in college is that you get to goon tour and stuff.
I mean, I went to Russia andPoland for three weeks in 1977
in December, which was quite theadventure.
But we recorded things fornational release and was part of
a fantastic ensemble at CCM.
It was kind of the showcase forUniversity of Cincinnati.
(10:08):
We'd go out to alumni eventsand, you know, help them raise
money.
But my, my first wife and that'sI met you and Linda through her
, vera um.
But we were both singers andwanted to get married and it was
really not feasible to have twoopera careers and ever see each
(10:32):
other, because opera is unique.
You go someplace for three orfour weeks, then you come back,
and then you go somewhere elsefor three or four weeks, then
you come back, at least in theUS.
That's how it works.
Or four weeks and you come back, at least in the US, that's how
it works.
So we both decided that wewould get real jobs, do as much
performing on the side as wepossibly could, both as soloists
(10:54):
and church choirs, and then wehad a professional, a cappella
group that we were a part of fora while and then I continued
that after she and I separatedand that continued through the
90s into 2001.
And I've continued to beinvolved.
I sang Thursday afternoon forthe installation of the new
Archbishop at St Peter andJane's Basilica here in
(11:18):
Cincinnati On Thursday just partof the choir, but it's nice to
still be involved even at myadvanced age Never stopped
singing right.
Well, I think one of the thingsthat saved me is that I haven't
had to sing hours every day, andso my voice is still pretty
fresh compared to some folks Iknow my age who have had to make
(11:42):
a living doing it.
I've not had to do that, so I'min luxury in some ways.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
So you talked about.
You're in the publishingbusiness and I catch you every
now and then on Facebook withyour post about its magazine,
right.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
It's a magazine, but that's only a fraction of what
we do.
Okay, it still pays the bills.
The magazine, the magazine iscalled Movers and Makers, not
Movers and Shakers, but itserves as the public voice for
greater Cincinnati nonprofitorganizations and has for going
(12:17):
on 30 years now.
In November will be 30thanniversary of the founding of
the magazine.
Now, truth be told, it's onlybeen known as Movers and Makers
for the past nine years.
Okay, so it'll be 10 years inNovember.
So it'll be 10 years inNovember.
It's a public forum throughwhich we can help nonprofits
(12:37):
share their news, promote theirfundraising events and
activities, tell their stories.
We profile their movers andmakers, their motive people,
important people.
We help them acknowledge theirbenefactors through photos from
fundraising events and, ofcourse, if they would like to
(13:01):
run ads to thank theirbenefactors, those are most
welcome as well.
So we're a nonprofitpublication.
Now, we didn't start that way,but the pandemic made it
necessary that we become anonprofit to really kind of
survive and we merged withanother organization to make
that happen.
Okay, it's funded almostentirely by advertising.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Okay, and that comes out monthly.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yeah, so we have print monthly.
The way things work generallyis that an organization, if
somebody sends us news, we willpost that on our website,
usually within a day or two.
Then that's shared to socialmedia.
Then we publish a weeklycompendium of the most important
stories each Wednesday morningin an email newsletter, and then
(13:48):
a lot of those little newsbites are compressed into a
smaller form and blended withfeature content, so profiles of
people and columns about issuesand topics.
Then that comes out in theprint magazine, which is monthly
except for January.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Okay, and you said that's just kind of in the
background.
Are there other things you dowith that also?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
In the background.
Are there other things you dowith that also?
No, I just meant that really tosay the magazine is only part
of what we do because of youknow you've got all the other
aspects now.
You know the magazine by itselfis a full-time job.
Yeah, sure, but then you havesocial media and posting on the
site and all the other thingsthat we're a part of that.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, so it's really, it really a mountain of work,
no question, and that'snonprofits, not just in the arts
world, but just nonprofits ingeneral.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
So across the board.
So everything from animalwelfare to social justice and
anything in between arts andculture, education, health care,
medical research, socialservices, anything that is
covered by a 501c3.
Okay, we kind of draw the linethere, although we do help
(15:06):
support some individual artistsby promoting exhibits that a
for-profit gallery might mighthave, but they're supporting an
individual visual artist, forexample, and we would, you know
the same in some jazz clubs.
Uh, for example, we willinclude in our, in our event
listings, and we have the mostcomprehensive uh event listings
(15:28):
in in the region and are veryproud of having that as well.
Well, thanks for sharing that.
It's an interesting way to makea living.
I wouldn't recommend it foreveryone.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
You've always been on that interesting way to make a
living, though how long has thatbeen?
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Somehow I end up in jobs that I have to explain.
Yeah, that's all right.
I mean, I was a focus groupmoderator for a dozen years and
people have no idea what that isunless they've been in a focus
group.
So, yeah, you spend a lot oftime explaining things and, of
course, as a musician vocalmusician especially you have to
explain yourself a lot.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Yeah sure, what's on your bucket list?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
What we've decided.
So my wife is six years younger.
Okay, if I retire in a coupleof years, or at least pare back
or something, she probably willcontinue to work close to full
time for a little while.
Our plan is to travel more.
This is kind of anall-consuming job, and in
(16:29):
December we took the first shifttwo-week trip we've ever taken
together oh nice.
And we've been married for 25years, okay.
So we would like to do more ofthat kind of thing, a
one-special-trip-a-year typething, and do it now, when we
can and are physically able totravel, rather than waiting
(16:51):
until we fully retire and whoknows what kind of ramshackle
shape we'll be in at that pointin time.
So we're doing some of that, uh, but I think travel is kind of
it.
In a lot of cases I bucket.
I'm not a person who keepslists of goals per se.
They're places we'd like to goif I have time in retirement.
(17:12):
It all depends on who wants orneeds me.
But, uh, there are things I'dlike to return to, maybe some
arranging, musical arranging andpossibly composing if I feel
inspired, because I've just hadto put all that aside in order
to help my second wife, bethElizabeth, raise her three kids,
(17:35):
okay.
So I got married for a secondtime in 1999.
Okay, and she had has had threekids at that point in time, I
think when I met them, they wereeight, five and three and they
are now 39, as of in a couple ofweeks, 35 and 33.
So they're, they're, they'regrown and out of the nest and
(17:59):
making their own ways in theworld.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Well good, I hope you can get to to do some traveling
.
That's something Linda and Ienjoy now and we have lots of
good road trips.
If you ever need a map, we havea lot of those.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
You know, one of our challenges is is thath's family
is in joplin, missouri.
Okay, so there's.
We have a road trip each year.
It's a 10 and a half hour roadtrip each, each way to joplin,
missouri, and we kind of get getall of that out of our system
to a certain extent right inthat, usually once or twice a
year yeah, well there, wellthere you go.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
There's always flights to everywhere.
Yeah, indeed, tom, if you couldtake a trip with anyone today,
living or deceased, who would itbe?
Where would you go?
What do you think you'd talkabout?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
That's a really good question.
That's one I hadn't thoughtabout.
I think it'd be fascinating totake a road trip as long as I
had the proper ventilation inthe car with Leonard Bernstein
and we'd have to take frequentsmoke breaks probably.
But he was just so overflowingwith musical talent.
(19:14):
Just a voracious learner andreader.
A musical talent, just avoracious learner and reader.
I think I would have reallyenjoyed driving around the
Catskills with him or somethingto learn more about music, but
also just his perspective onlife and as a guy who really
(19:34):
lived a hugely vibrant life andin fact kind of lived himself to
death, frankly, but atremendously talented and
vibrant person and who just uh,when he would walk in a room
would just change, you know, the, the temperature and the
personality of that room just byjust walking into it, and so I
think that would be a reallyinteresting question.
(19:56):
And he kind of encompasses allof.
I'm a very eclectic musicalperson.
My training is in voice andopera and I have a great passion
for classical singing.
But through two five-yearstints in the record business, I
have a tremendous appreciationfor most genres of music.
(20:18):
A couple of things I'm notreally all that wild about, but
I mean, I listen to everythingfrom you know, from world music
to jazz, to some reallyinteresting kind of alt folk
things, and I'm incrediblyeclectic in my tastes.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Okay, yeah, I remember that and I could be you
know, we are older, but Iremember you having about a
quarter of those were promos.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
The rest, yeah.
I was kind of a vinyl junkie inmy day, although my best
customer had 27,000 LPs, so Iwas a piker compared to him.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Now did you hang on to those?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
No, no, those are all gone.
I still have about a thousandCDs, but nothing to play them on
except in my car.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah right.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
So I don't even have a CD player right now.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I mean, you're in the music industry.
Vinyl's kind of made a comeback, though, right.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
It's what they tell me.
I mean, I have not reinvestedin that at all and I'll be
honest with you in terms of Ihave so much music in my head
stuffed in there from performingand listening over my 70 year
lifespan that I don't really doa whole lot of recreational
(22:00):
background listening anymore.
I listen to to kind of expandmy horizons and to maybe learn a
new piece or something likethat, but I just don't have
music on all the time.
Actually, my wife is much morelikely to have background music
on while she's working than I am.
It's weird.
(22:20):
It's kind of always in my head.
Anyway, I kind of don't need itas much as I used to yeah, yeah
, you just think it up right.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Pretty much, yes, speaking of 70 years, and I'm
catching up with you.
I'm still trying to catch you,but if you could leave my
listeners with some life advice,maybe you're talking to your
20-year-old self, or maybeyou're talking to a room full of
young folks, or even olderfolks.
What would you tell people onhow to live life?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
My mantra for a long time has been never say never.
Absolutes get you in trouble.
You have to be flexible in life.
I've learned a lot from 39years of as someone who was
raised Presbyterian.
I've sung for 39 yearsprofessionally reformed Jewish
(23:15):
temple which is based on.
You have to continually adaptyour thinking to current times
and I've learned so much aboutthat and how to rethink the
world based on and reevaluateyour stance on things.
So never say never is a big one, and I think the one thing I
regret is not having takencertain chances and
(23:37):
opportunities.
The worst somebody's gonna dois tell you no and so just put
yourself out there and be brave,good advice.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Well, tom, this has been fun for me.
I know we haven't seen eachother in years and I do have
fond memories of meeting wayback in 1988 or 89, I don't know
somewhere in there a long timeago but uh, leave, uh, leave my
listeners with, um, how to findyou movers and makers business,
(24:12):
whatever you want to, whateveryou want to leave us with.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
So the magazine is called Movers and Makers.
It is a hyper local magazine toCincinnati.
The web address ismoversmakersorg.
There's no and or ampersand oranything.
We are distributed in about 110physical locations throughout
greater Cincinnati coffee shops,libraries, museums, etc.
(24:38):
That's pretty much how to findus.
It's free.
Both print and email are freesubscriptions.
We don't want any barriersbetween us and the news we're
sharing.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Well, tom again, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Daniel, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Thank you for tuning in to Dan the Road Trip Guy.
I hope you enjoyed our journeytoday and the stories that were
shared.
If you have any thoughts orquestions or stories of your own
, I'd love to hear from you.
Feel free to reach out to meanytime.
Don't forget to share thispodcast with your friends and
family and help us to spread thejoy of road trips and great
conversations.
Until next time, keep driving,keep exploring and keep having
(25:19):
those amazing conversations.
Safe travels and remember youcan find me on the internet at
dantheroadtripguycom.
Welcome to Dan the Road Trip Guy.
I'm your host, dan, and eachweek we'll embark on a new
adventure, discovering memoriesand life lessons of our
incredible guests, from everydaytravelers to thrill seekers and
everyone in between.
This podcast is your front rowseat to inspiring stories of
passion, resilience and thepursuit of happiness.
So buckle up and enjoy the ride.
(00:24):
Well, my guest today I haven'tseen in years.
I've known him for probably 35years.
I was thinking about it today.
His name is Tom Mariner.
He's here in Cincinnati.
Tom, when I met him, wasselling something and I don't
(00:45):
remember what he was selling.
But what Tom is really about ismusic and I just remember that
very much about him and I'mabout as non-musical as could be
.
So I'm just excited to talk toTom.
Welcome to the show, tom.
Thanks very much for having me,yeah well, it's a pleasure to
have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I was selling graphic arts supplies and equipment to
feed my musical habit.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
That's what it was.
Yes, I remember that.
Now, take a couple minutes andjust tell them who is Tom
Mariner.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, I've led a confused and twisted life which
has led me through musictraining in opera and voice,
music training in opera andvoice to retail management, to,
as I mentioned, b2b sales in thegraphic arts industry, to music
(01:33):
direction producing, arrangingvoice lessons, to marketing
research for about 12 years, andthen a combination of
publishing, which we've beendoing since 2008, with a little
(01:58):
side stint into running achamber orchestra here in
Cincinnati for a couple of years.
In the midst of all that, socurrently looking to find a way
to wrap up a glorious career.
Final career in the publishingindustry here in Cincinnati.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, we'll get to that and fill my listeners in on
what you really are up to.
I can't remember.
I love to ask people what wasyour first car, and Saab kept
coming back to my mind, but Icould be totally wrong, because
that was about 35 years ago.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Well, and and and you know, about 20 years after I
had my first car.
But the first first car that Iremember learning to drive in
was my dad's 67 Pontiac Le Mans,white, with red interior and
red stripe tires.
Yeah, that was a great car.
(02:46):
I loved that car.
I think the first car I ownedbelieve it or not, was a Ford
Pinto station wagon.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Ah, the Ford Pinto yes.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yes, indeed, indeed, but the car you're talking about
, I think so.
It would have been late 80s.
It was an 86, saab 900, the oldclamshell.
It was just a wonderful carPiece of engineering.
I used to just stand in mygarage and stare at it.
I love that car.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah, I remember that Back to that Pinto.
Was that a college car or highschool car?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Oh yeah, college, yeah, just because I was moving
around moving lots of stuff backand forth from home to school
and school elsewhere and thatsort of thing.
So yeah, my dad helped me buythat.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I remember the Pinto, and I didn't see many wagons
though, back in those days.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
No, that's what I liked.
It was unique yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I liked it.
Any fun stories from that PintoUnique.
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Any fun stories from that Pinto.
No, just I got run into prettyhard in a parking lot and that
was the death of the Pinto.
Oh yes, Somebody did not yield,turning left and ran smack into
me.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
In Norwood in the Surrey Square parking lot, the
Pinto, best I remember, had someissues with the gas tanks
exploding.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
They did.
Fortunately, the gas tank wasin the back.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, what are you driving today?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, we live downtown Cincinnati, Actually,
technically kind of Mount Auburn, slash OTR over the Rhine, and
so we only have one car now, andthat's a 2016 Mazda CX-3.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
And we put about 6,000 miles a year on that.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
All right, so you pretty much walk everywhere.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
We walk or ride the bike or something like that.
Yes, indeed, yeah that's cool.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Well, speaking of miles, any epic road trips in
your life, you know, eithergrowing up or later in life you
either went south to Florida,which was a couple days drive,
or we would.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
A lot of people would typically go overnight to
Denver and to the Rockies and soit was about a 14-hour drive
and you'd leave at four in theafternoon and trade off driving
(05:18):
or whatever and arrive early thenext morning in the Rockies.
I and two friends took about athree-week journey I think it
was summer between junior andsenior year of college, but two
friends from my hometown and Iwent out for three weeks of
camping kind of all over theRockies and sleeping in the snow
(05:39):
and all sorts of crazy stuff,even though it was August.
But that was a wonderful trip.
Yeah, you know, I can'tremember whose car we took.
I think it was my friend's car,but the uh, that was the
interesting thing about thatduring that drive and of course
you can get WLS from Chicagomost of the way through Nebraska
, but during that drive that wasthe whole Nixon Watergate
(06:00):
business was all unfoldingduring.
During that the time we weredriving out there and we were
listening to all that news kindof collapse on top of us as we
drove under the stars acrossNebraska.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Wrapped up college.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Boy.
This is where it getscircuitous.
So I finished.
I got two degrees from DePauwUniversity in Greencastle,
indiana.
My first degree was inpsychology, because I couldn't
make up my mind about whether Iwas going to be a musician or
not.
And then I just pretty muchbegged my dad to give me one
(06:36):
more year and I did three yearsof music in one year, okay, and
stayed and finished up myundergrad degree and then came
here to the University ofCincinnati College Conservatory
of Music, better known as CCM.
But after that I went to work inrecord retailing.
I worked for the first realrecord superstore here in town
(06:58):
called Record Theatre, which is15,000 square feet, and I worked
there about five years and thenthat little mini recession that
happened in 1983 necessitatedthe end of my job as the
classical music buyer.
They didn't have a classicalmusic buyer.
After that they eliminated thejob.
So I went to work in theprinting business, which
(07:21):
afforded me a lot of flexibilityand a chance to do professional
singing on the side in theevenings and schedule.
If I needed to be off for along weekend or something like
that, I could work my schedule.
That was the beauty of it.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Now speaking of the music.
Going back, was music always inyour life, as a small child and
then growing up?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Well, I guess I was always musical and my brother
and sister played the piano andthey were in the choirs and
junior high and high school so,and I was quite a bit younger so
I think I emulated them alongthe way.
But somewhere in junior high Istarted to sit down at the end
of the day and just noodlearound at the piano and I had
(08:02):
taken a few years of lessonsfrom elementary school.
But my dad finally sat me downday and just noodle around at
the piano and I had taken a fewyears of lessons in elementary
school.
But my dad finally sat me downin the middle of the summer
before my ninth grade year andsaid you know, we've never given
you any ultimatums.
And he says it's clear, you'renot going to be a football star,
we think you should besomething in music.
You have your choice.
(08:22):
You can be in the band or thechoir, but you have to do one or
the other going forward.
And so that little nudge kind ofgot me into.
I was kind of terrified of theband director.
She was a taskmaster.
Taskmistress, however, yes, andso I joined the choir and the
rest is history.
Yeah, I was so.
(08:44):
In high school I lettered intwo sports and I was the lead
into a lead in two musicals.
It's a very confused young man.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, yeah.
A little nudge from your dad,though, sent you down that kind
of musical journey.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, no, and they were not musical at all.
They just saw something in methey thought needed to be
nurtured.
So hats off to them.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Two letters in sports .
What sports Cross country andtrack.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
All right, I survived one summer training session in
football.
I was like that's all I'm doing.
It's too hard.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I'm going to go out and run fast and sing right.
Yes, exactly, take me a littlemore on that musical journey
then through college, and thenyou mentioned a few things you
were involved in.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Well, the best things about being involved in music
in college is that you get to goon tour and stuff.
I mean, I went to Russia andPoland for three weeks in 1977
in December, which was quite theadventure.
But we recorded things fornational release and was part of
a fantastic ensemble at CCM.
It was kind of the showcase forUniversity of Cincinnati.
(10:08):
We'd go out to alumni eventsand, you know, help them raise
money.
But my, my first wife and that'sI met you and Linda through her
, vera um.
But we were both singers andwanted to get married and it was
really not feasible to have twoopera careers and ever see each
(10:32):
other, because opera is unique.
You go someplace for three orfour weeks, then you come back,
and then you go somewhere elsefor three or four weeks, then
you come back, at least in theUS.
That's how it works.
Or four weeks and you come back, at least in the US, that's how
it works.
So we both decided that wewould get real jobs, do as much
performing on the side as wepossibly could, both as soloists
(10:54):
and church choirs, and then wehad a professional, a cappella
group that we were a part of fora while and then I continued
that after she and I separatedand that continued through the
90s into 2001.
And I've continued to beinvolved.
I sang Thursday afternoon forthe installation of the new
Archbishop at St Peter andJane's Basilica here in
(11:18):
Cincinnati On Thursday just partof the choir, but it's nice to
still be involved even at myadvanced age Never stopped
singing right.
Well, I think one of the thingsthat saved me is that I haven't
had to sing hours every day, andso my voice is still pretty
fresh compared to some folks Iknow my age who have had to make
(11:42):
a living doing it.
I've not had to do that, so I'min luxury in some ways.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
So you talked about.
You're in the publishingbusiness and I catch you every
now and then on Facebook withyour post about its magazine,
right.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
It's a magazine, but that's only a fraction of what
we do.
Okay, it still pays the bills.
The magazine, the magazine iscalled Movers and Makers, not
Movers and Shakers, but itserves as the public voice for
greater Cincinnati nonprofitorganizations and has for going
(12:17):
on 30 years now.
In November will be 30thanniversary of the founding of
the magazine.
Now, truth be told, it's onlybeen known as Movers and Makers
for the past nine years.
Okay, so it'll be 10 years inNovember.
So it'll be 10 years inNovember.
It's a public forum throughwhich we can help nonprofits
(12:37):
share their news, promote theirfundraising events and
activities, tell their stories.
We profile their movers andmakers, their motive people,
important people.
We help them acknowledge theirbenefactors through photos from
fundraising events and, ofcourse, if they would like to
(13:01):
run ads to thank theirbenefactors, those are most
welcome as well.
So we're a nonprofitpublication.
Now, we didn't start that way,but the pandemic made it
necessary that we become anonprofit to really kind of
survive and we merged withanother organization to make
that happen.
Okay, it's funded almostentirely by advertising.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Okay, and that comes out monthly.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yeah, so we have print monthly.
The way things work generallyis that an organization, if
somebody sends us news, we willpost that on our website,
usually within a day or two.
Then that's shared to socialmedia.
Then we publish a weeklycompendium of the most important
stories each Wednesday morningin an email newsletter, and then
(13:48):
a lot of those little newsbites are compressed into a
smaller form and blended withfeature content, so profiles of
people and columns about issuesand topics.
Then that comes out in theprint magazine, which is monthly
except for January.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Okay, and you said that's just kind of in the
background.
Are there other things you dowith that also?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
In the background.
Are there other things you dowith that also?
No, I just meant that really tosay the magazine is only part
of what we do because of youknow you've got all the other
aspects now.
You know the magazine by itselfis a full-time job.
Yeah, sure, but then you havesocial media and posting on the
site and all the other thingsthat we're a part of that.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, so it's really, it really a mountain of work,
no question, and that'snonprofits, not just in the arts
world, but just nonprofits ingeneral.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
So across the board.
So everything from animalwelfare to social justice and
anything in between arts andculture, education, health care,
medical research, socialservices, anything that is
covered by a 501c3.
Okay, we kind of draw the linethere, although we do help
(15:06):
support some individual artistsby promoting exhibits that a
for-profit gallery might mighthave, but they're supporting an
individual visual artist, forexample, and we would, you know
the same in some jazz clubs.
Uh, for example, we willinclude in our, in our event
listings, and we have the mostcomprehensive uh event listings
(15:28):
in in the region and are veryproud of having that as well.
Well, thanks for sharing that.
It's an interesting way to makea living.
I wouldn't recommend it foreveryone.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
You've always been on that interesting way to make a
living, though how long has thatbeen?
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Somehow I end up in jobs that I have to explain.
Yeah, that's all right.
I mean, I was a focus groupmoderator for a dozen years and
people have no idea what that isunless they've been in a focus
group.
So, yeah, you spend a lot oftime explaining things and, of
course, as a musician vocalmusician especially you have to
explain yourself a lot.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Yeah sure, what's on your bucket list?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
What we've decided.
So my wife is six years younger.
Okay, if I retire in a coupleof years, or at least pare back
or something, she probably willcontinue to work close to full
time for a little while.
Our plan is to travel more.
This is kind of anall-consuming job, and in
(16:29):
December we took the first shifttwo-week trip we've ever taken
together oh nice.
And we've been married for 25years, okay.
So we would like to do more ofthat kind of thing, a
one-special-trip-a-year typething, and do it now, when we
can and are physically able totravel, rather than waiting
(16:51):
until we fully retire and whoknows what kind of ramshackle
shape we'll be in at that pointin time.
So we're doing some of that, uh, but I think travel is kind of
it.
In a lot of cases I bucket.
I'm not a person who keepslists of goals per se.
They're places we'd like to goif I have time in retirement.
(17:12):
It all depends on who wants orneeds me.
But, uh, there are things I'dlike to return to, maybe some
arranging, musical arranging andpossibly composing if I feel
inspired, because I've just hadto put all that aside in order
to help my second wife, bethElizabeth, raise her three kids,
(17:35):
okay.
So I got married for a secondtime in 1999.
Okay, and she had has had threekids at that point in time, I
think when I met them, they wereeight, five and three and they
are now 39, as of in a couple ofweeks, 35 and 33.
So they're, they're, they'regrown and out of the nest and
(17:59):
making their own ways in theworld.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Well good, I hope you can get to to do some traveling
.
That's something Linda and Ienjoy now and we have lots of
good road trips.
If you ever need a map, we havea lot of those.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
You know, one of our challenges is is thath's family
is in joplin, missouri.
Okay, so there's.
We have a road trip each year.
It's a 10 and a half hour roadtrip each, each way to joplin,
missouri, and we kind of get getall of that out of our system
to a certain extent right inthat, usually once or twice a
year yeah, well there, wellthere you go.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
There's always flights to everywhere.
Yeah, indeed, tom, if you couldtake a trip with anyone today,
living or deceased, who would itbe?
Where would you go?
What do you think you'd talkabout?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
That's a really good question.
That's one I hadn't thoughtabout.
I think it'd be fascinating totake a road trip as long as I
had the proper ventilation inthe car with Leonard Bernstein
and we'd have to take frequentsmoke breaks probably.
But he was just so overflowingwith musical talent.
(19:14):
Just a voracious learner andreader.
A musical talent, just avoracious learner and reader.
I think I would have reallyenjoyed driving around the
Catskills with him or somethingto learn more about music, but
also just his perspective onlife and as a guy who really
(19:34):
lived a hugely vibrant life andin fact kind of lived himself to
death, frankly, but atremendously talented and
vibrant person and who just uh,when he would walk in a room
would just change, you know, the, the temperature and the
personality of that room just byjust walking into it, and so I
think that would be a reallyinteresting question.
(19:56):
And he kind of encompasses allof.
I'm a very eclectic musicalperson.
My training is in voice andopera and I have a great passion
for classical singing.
But through two five-yearstints in the record business, I
have a tremendous appreciationfor most genres of music.
(20:18):
A couple of things I'm notreally all that wild about, but
I mean, I listen to everythingfrom you know, from world music
to jazz, to some reallyinteresting kind of alt folk
things, and I'm incrediblyeclectic in my tastes.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Okay, yeah, I remember that and I could be you
know, we are older, but Iremember you having about a
quarter of those were promos.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
The rest, yeah.
I was kind of a vinyl junkie inmy day, although my best
customer had 27,000 LPs, so Iwas a piker compared to him.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Now did you hang on to those?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
No, no, those are all gone.
I still have about a thousandCDs, but nothing to play them on
except in my car.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah right.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
So I don't even have a CD player right now.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I mean, you're in the music industry.
Vinyl's kind of made a comeback, though, right.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
It's what they tell me.
I mean, I have not reinvestedin that at all and I'll be
honest with you in terms of Ihave so much music in my head
stuffed in there from performingand listening over my 70 year
lifespan that I don't really doa whole lot of recreational
(22:00):
background listening anymore.
I listen to to kind of expandmy horizons and to maybe learn a
new piece or something likethat, but I just don't have
music on all the time.
Actually, my wife is much morelikely to have background music
on while she's working than I am.
It's weird.
(22:20):
It's kind of always in my head.
Anyway, I kind of don't need itas much as I used to yeah, yeah
, you just think it up right.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Pretty much, yes, speaking of 70 years, and I'm
catching up with you.
I'm still trying to catch you,but if you could leave my
listeners with some life advice,maybe you're talking to your
20-year-old self, or maybeyou're talking to a room full of
young folks, or even olderfolks.
What would you tell people onhow to live life?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
My mantra for a long time has been never say never.
Absolutes get you in trouble.
You have to be flexible in life.
I've learned a lot from 39years of as someone who was
raised Presbyterian.
I've sung for 39 yearsprofessionally reformed Jewish
(23:15):
temple which is based on.
You have to continually adaptyour thinking to current times
and I've learned so much aboutthat and how to rethink the
world based on and reevaluateyour stance on things.
So never say never is a big one, and I think the one thing I
regret is not having takencertain chances and
(23:37):
opportunities.
The worst somebody's gonna dois tell you no and so just put
yourself out there and be brave,good advice.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Well, tom, this has been fun for me.
I know we haven't seen eachother in years and I do have
fond memories of meeting wayback in 1988 or 89, I don't know
somewhere in there a long timeago but uh, leave, uh, leave my
listeners with, um, how to findyou movers and makers business,
(24:12):
whatever you want to, whateveryou want to leave us with.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
So the magazine is called Movers and Makers.
It is a hyper local magazine toCincinnati.
The web address ismoversmakersorg.
There's no and or ampersand oranything.
We are distributed in about 110physical locations throughout
greater Cincinnati coffee shops,libraries, museums, etc.
(24:38):
That's pretty much how to findus.
It's free.
Both print and email are freesubscriptions.
We don't want any barriersbetween us and the news we're
sharing.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Well, tom again, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Daniel, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Thank you for tuning in to Dan the Road Trip Guy.
I hope you enjoyed our journeytoday and the stories that were
shared.
If you have any thoughts orquestions or stories of your own
, I'd love to hear from you.
Feel free to reach out to meanytime.
Don't forget to share thispodcast with your friends and
family and help us to spread thejoy of road trips and great
conversations.
Until next time, keep driving,keep exploring and keep having
(25:19):
those amazing conversations.
Safe travels and remember youcan find me on the internet at
dantheroadtripguycom.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.