January 21, 2025 • 60 mins
What's the secret behind the enduring fascination with Game of Thrones, and how do the characters we love—or love to hate—shape its legendary status? Join us as we kick off 2025 and season 3 of Dancing with Dragons with a bang, celebrating Minwa's birthday and exploring the intricate web of character dynamics and plot twists that make Game of Thrones a cultural phenomenon. This episode entertains and educates as we tackle listener questions and share personal insights into the world of Westeros, including Minwa's journey through "A Clash of Kings" and her excitement about the stories yet to come.
Ever wondered why some characters get the spotlight while others are left in the shadows? We dissect the overrated and underrated figures in the "A Song of Ice and Fire" universe, challenging the conventional wisdom about characters like Stannis Baratheon and Jon Snow, while championing unsung heroes like Yoren and Podrick Payne. Our conversation doesn't shy away from the controversial portrayal of women in Game of Thrones, offering a critical lens on the show's tropes and celebrating the more balanced storytelling in "House of the Dragon." We navigate the maze of prophecies and power plays, pondering how different choices might have altered the fates of our favorite characters.
Imagine hitting the road with your favorite Game of Thrones characters—who would you pick for the ultimate adventure? We indulge in this fun hypothetical, choosing our ideal travel companions and debating the outcomes of pivotal strategic decisions in the series. What if Daenerys had Selmy as her Hand instead of Tyrion? We explore the potential ripple effects on her reign and the war for the Iron Throne. As we wrap up, we invite you to engage with us on social media and share your burning questions, ensuring our next episode is as exciting and interactive as Westeros itself.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome everyone to the first episode of 2025 and
season 3 of Dancing with Dragons.
I'm Tony and I'm here with theamazing Minwa and we're your
hosts for this podcast.
That is your ultimatedestination for everything in
the world of Westeros and beyond.
Whether you're pledged yourloyalty to House Stark,
swanfield, to the Targaryens, orstill dream of a world where
the Night King reigns supreme,this is the place where we dive
(00:32):
deep into the lore, history andshows and stories that have
captivated us all.
Before I explain what our firstepisode of the year is going to
be about, I'd like to wish myco-host, minwa, a very happy
birthday.
It was yesterday, but still,how was your day?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
It was good.
Thank you for asking, tony.
It was fine Celebrated withfamily and friends, chill.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Were you pampered.
Are you too old for that?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Like I guess my friends and family treated me,
had some good food, some of myfavorite food, played some nice
fun games.
There's actually a really funnystory I have to mention on the
podcast.
So one of my friends who mightbe listening, she made like a
quiz that's like just about meand like my interests, my
hobbies and stuff.
So you are part of it too,because one of the questions was
(01:19):
true or false.
Minua's co-host on her podcast.
His name is joey and mostpeople got his rights.
Most people said false and hisname is sony.
So you were part of it and thepodcast was part of it too.
There were there, yeah, therewere another question.
There was another questionabout the podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
So, um, that's why my this, that's why my ears were
ringing.
I go.
What's going on?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
because you were part of my birthday.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Cool uh, so, um, for our first episode of the year,
it's going to feel like sort ofa deja vu.
Last January we began 2024 witha Q&A and Minhwa and I talked
and figured, since last year'sQ&A episode was fun to record
and also one of our mostdownloaded of last year.
Why not start the same for 2025?
(02:04):
Unloaded of last year why notstart the same for 2025?
So last week I was listening tolast year's Q&A and I started
smiling because there's twoquestions we got that I knew
we'd get again this year.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
We did.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So our first question for our 2025 Q&A is from our
friend, louis Lulu Reviews.
Now he's the permanent co-hostof the Fellowship of the Mike
with Shan.
His question is Minwa, have youfinished A Clash of Kings yet?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
he asked it last year first of all, I am done with A
Clash of Kings.
Everybody clap for me.
I'm joking.
I'm finally done.
I said that by the next episodeI'd be done with the book, and
of course I am.
I kept true to my I'd be donewith the book, and of course I
am.
I kept true to my word.
I'll one-up him.
I even started the third book.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Oh my gosh for real.
No, really I did.
I'm not that far into it.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I just went past the prologue, but I didn't dive deep
yet, but I started it, so thereyou go.
There's the update for 2025.
Stay tuned.
I don't know when I'll be done.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I'll add an applause to this when I can, if I can,
okay.
So, funny enough, he has asecond question.
It's one that he asked lastyear as well.
Okay, what are you lookingforward to when covering Season
3 of Game of Thrones?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Oh my God.
Okay, what are you?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
looking forward to when covering season three of
Game of Thrones, oh my God.
Okay.
So before we answer, let megive everyone a quick
explanation on why we didn'treview, slash, analyze, season
three really quick.
So last January we decided we'dstart covering the season in
March, thinking that House ofthe Dragon season two would come
out in late August.
The plan was whenever we gotthe official premiere date, we
(03:44):
scheduled time to revisit thefirst season of House of the
Dragon.
Hbo threw a little monkeywrench into our plan and
schedule and decided to releaseseason two in June.
So Minhwa and I made anexecutive decision to scrap
season three coverage of GOT andtackle season one of House of
the Dragon instead.
And by the time season two ofHouse of the Dragon concluded,
(04:05):
we had recorded like 21 straightweeks of reviewing and
analyzing HOTD stuff.
So we kind of needed a breakfrom that episodic reviews and
recordings.
So here we are, 2025.
Our coverage of season threewill begin soon, for sure.
And so back to the question.
(04:27):
The question is what are youlooking forward to in rewatching
season three?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Well, do you remember what I said last year?
It's probably going to be thesame.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Same thing, right, I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Red.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Wedding, daenerys.
Yeah, the only thing I kind ofwrote something you probably
agree with it I just wrote inseason three is a season season
of alliances, betrayals and uhgame changing moments, which is
the red wedding.
Uh.
It builds on the seriespolitical intrigue while setting
up major shifts in power.
So we see a lot of powerstructure being uh built up or
(05:01):
crumbling.
With the rewatch it'll give usa deeper appreciation for all
the characters and, like we'llsee the foreshadowing won't say
when, but pretty soon I thinkwe're gonna do a few more
episodes of uh standalone.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Um, like our next episode we want to focus on,
like previewing the night of theseven kingdoms show yeah, um,
as you all know by now, this isa q a episode for um, the
podcast, and like anintroduction to season three.
On the topic of the spinoffs,we got a question submitted to
us from my friend, besma, atbloom with besma, and she wants
(05:37):
us to talk about all thespinoffs and what to expect from
each of them.
Um, so the night of the sevenkingdoms one is the next episode
you can expect from us.
We're going to tell youeverything you need to know
about that and we'll also giveyou some very small updates on
all the other spin-offs andprojects in the works.
And while I'm here, besma alsoasked some other very
interesting questions for us toanswer.
(05:58):
She says what Game of Thronesrealm character did you least
expect to like but ended upliking?
And then she follows that up bysaying how did that character
convince you to like them andwhat do you see in them?
Now, and I have a bit of ashocking answer, I guess.
So I want you to start, please,and I want you to answer that
first.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Okay In terms of book , because you know his arc was
completely destroyed.
I'm going to say Jaime, becauseJaime was probably the most
hated person in that first fewchapters of him trying to kill
Bran.
With time and you see in theshow how they.
That's one of the best thingsthe show did, actually was
(06:35):
figure out a way for us tosomehow peel those onions, those
layers of his onion, and justto see how he was deep inside,
because he's not the same ascersei, because cersei is just
pure evil and I think what.
What really convinced me waswhen he was completely deflated,
vulnerable, in season three andwhen he has that conversation
(07:00):
of with brianne.
It's right after his.
His right hand is chopped off.
He feels less of a man.
He's telling the story aboutthe Mad King and why he had to
do what he did.
I think just after that you cansee that he still wants to go
to King's Landing, but he alsois becoming a good person in a
(07:22):
weird way.
Go.
You know what I like, jaime.
I think he's one of my favoritecharacters and I'm really
hoping that if we ever get thesebooks, you know, he'll find his
way in the right side ofhistory.
Westerosi history.
Because right now he's stillfighting for the Lannisters, for
his family.
So that would be my pick, and Iknow that's the easiest one to
(07:45):
say, but I truly believe thathe's one of the best, going from
detested to kind of beloved bythe end.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, I agree with you on Jaime.
I have, I think, two charactersthat I'd say apply that I guess
everyone kind of agrees with,and the first one is Jaime apply
that I guess everyone kind ofagrees with.
And the first one is Jamie um.
Like, by the end of it, I thinkI was just as annoyed about how
his arc ended as I was, likeDanny and everybody else,
because it's just, you know,like I cared about it that much.
(08:17):
So that's like a testament tomy journey with that character,
because of course, I didn't likehim in the beginning either.
And I guess the other pick thateveryone, I guess, or most
people, should or would agreewith is Sansa At the beginning.
You know, I watched Game ofThrones when I was like 14 years
old for the first time.
So, oddly enough, maybe Ishould have empathized with her
(08:38):
more at that age, but I was justso focused on, like, the main
plot.
You know what I mean Like, sofocused on, like the main plot
you know what I mean.
Like I wasn't like absorbing it,I guess, as thoroughly as I do
now, and you know, when youwatch for the first time, you
don't see things the way youwatch it, like on your fourth,
fifth time or whatever.
So at the beginning she reallyannoyed me.
I think by the time she went toKing's Landing, like maybe in
(09:00):
season two, starting season two,I started to be like okay, like
been up season two, startingseason two, I started to be like
okay, like this is actually apoor girl and and she needs help
, or like I wish I could helpher.
But at the same time I was likewhy isn't she just running away
?
You know, I was a bit I guess Idon't know how to describe it,
but frustrated with her, eventhough I felt sorry for her.
By season I think, four orsomething I just completely
(09:22):
changed my mind about her andwasn't frustrated with her at
all.
I was just frustrated with,like, what was happening to her
rather than her, and what herchoice is.
You know, like now, if you'veheard me on the podcast, you
know how much I love Sansa andyou know how I think that like
she has a right to be the bratthat she is kind of at the
beginning of the show.
So, yeah, I'd say those are thetwo main picks, but actually
the shocking pick that I have isactually Dani, and I don't
(09:45):
think anyone would have expectedthat, because when I watched
season one for the first time, Iwas so stark focused.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Can I just?
I just want to add somethingabout Sansa.
Like you said, she's very hated, especially with the bros who
they think she's just annoying.
She goes through a lot but shehas so much like resilience
throughout.
And then you could you couldtell that even though she's
being tortured or a prisoner,she's growing and she's maturing
(10:15):
and she's like getting all thatpolitical like strategy and
acumen from like she's oddlylearning from cersei of like
what not to do or to do, thatkind of like the opposite.
And just like she knows likewhat not to do or to do, that
kind of like the opposite.
And just like she knows likeshe had to adapt in like every
situation she's adapting andthen she has to go back home and
she has to everything she goesto so many different places.
She has to adapt.
(10:35):
So it's one of those thingsthat I wish we could have seen
the show with her as a leader,like showing her like a full
season of Sansa there, likedealing with with crises or
whatever that has to be dealtwith.
So yeah, I just wanted to addthat for Sansa.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Like, yeah, I wish we could see kind of more of her.
You know, like I was going tosay like about Dany as well.
Like I think in the beginningthe Starks really stole the show
, so that's what most people arejust focused on.
You're like, and I mean theStarks really stole the show, so
that's what most people arejust focused on.
You're like, and I mean theStarks, I mean like kind of Ned
Catelyn and like that situation,especially Ned.
you know he's our, he's our maincharacter, so you focus on him
and you really care about him,which works for season one.
(11:15):
But the disadvantage is thatyou don't really really like pay
attention, maybe the first timearound, to the others.
Obviously, my first time timewatching the show, my first like
favorite was Ned and I was sortof like John and I kind of felt
sorry for him because of theway the cat was treating him.
And I really liked Rob as wellbecause I was like, okay, like
this is someone that's likestepping up for his family and
(11:36):
like you know, I respected himand like you're so stark,
focused and you're like Arya'sspirit, you know, and how she's
like fighting to survive.
She's so charming in King'sLanding when you know, as a
Stark contrast, everybody elseStark contrast.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
But also when you think about the Starks, they're
everywhere.
So they're in King's Landing,Winterfell, Beyond the Wall, the
Castle Black.
So every storyline involvesStarks.
Yeah so they're like the threadthat you follow, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah.
So they're like the heroesimmediately in your mind, like
subconsciously.
So I didn't really payattention to Dany at the first
time around, I think I was just.
I was like what's her deal?
Like where's this going?
You know, I couldn't see thevision.
So I didn't really love her inthe beginning, I didn't hate her
, but I was just like what's herstory, where is this going?
(12:27):
And like is this worth it?
What's the point, you know?
And then the moment where Ijust felt like I had an epiphany
or like my life changed was atthe end of season one, when I
don't know how, what exactly Idid, but I remember just pausing
and going wait, wait, wait,wait.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
You were born again believer of Daenerys.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yes, I was like I would do everything for her,
everything and anything.
Wait.
Like this is the story, this isthe character, and I just
immediately completely sawseason one in a different way at
that moment and I fell in lovewith her at that moment.
So it was just that, you know,and seeing, I guess, a woman
(13:06):
come into her own Because whenshe stands up, also from the
fire, she is like extremely,extremely confident.
For the first time she feelskind of like, I guess, defying
the norm, like I did thisbecause I believed in myself,
like that's the first time thatyou see Dani embody that and
embrace that and kind of havethat confidence.
So it was that switch in herthat activated a switch within
(13:27):
me.
Do you know what I mean?
Yes, and completely changed myperspective and then my whole
journey with Game of Thrones.
So yeah, dani Jamie Sansa.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Good, so let me go to our next question, because it's
kind of one of those thingsthat I don't like the term
overrated, underrated, it's kindof so subjective, you know but,
let's just give it a whirl.
It's from Travel Enthusiast.
He says what's the mostoverrated and underrated
characters in A Song of Ice andFire and I had to rack my brain.
But go first and I'll give youmine.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
For overrated.
I'm probably going to bedisappointing some people, but I
don't really mind, because thischaracter has like a cult and
it's just a cult of randos.
Sorry if this applies to youbut we're not on the same page
who.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Well, I picked somebody post or season seven
and eight.
I wrote Jon Snow.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Okay, so no overrated for overrated.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Oh no, I wasn't.
This isn't.
That's not a cult favorite,that's like a popular favorite.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Oh, who are you talking about?
Oh, this is for the whole, thewhole universe.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, like this person has a cult following in
the show and in real life.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Is she a woman?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
No, okay, okay.
The clue is in the is in thedescription cult following huh
damon no cult following.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Oh my gosh, I'm lost.
Go ahead, sorry it's stannis oh, stannis.
Oh, you know why I let me, letme um, defend these people
because, again, like I've talkedabout you, euron Greyjoy he is
also like Stannis, is not sodull, you know, in the book,
(15:14):
like we're rooting for Stannisand the way he went out in
season five was so anticlimacticand I think people are just you
know they're trying to buildthem up, and I get it.
I wouldn't be in the cult.
But I'm just saying that I getwhy people would have a cult.
I wouldn't be in it though.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
But I think that you get it with all the book stuff
that you read.
I, you know, just finished booktwo so I haven't seen like the
non-boring side of Stannis and Iunderstand like Stannis' black
and white like view on the world.
Like you know how he cutsRavus' fingers off because he
was a thief and even though,like the theft that he committed
saved him, like his savedStannis, like I understand
(15:59):
people that can respect that Iguess.
But he is not the mostinteresting character in Game of
thrones and george rr martin'suniverse.
Like it's just so overrated tothink that that he is like the,
the epitome of george'sintellect and creativity.
Like no, this is just a guythat would be a like, just a
normal policeman in our, in ourworld.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
like this is not the most you know amazing character,
sorry, and he's so overratedwell, I have another one, since
let me just I want to say, andthis is just for the show, I
want to say, season eight,cersei okay, it's just one
dimensional.
She has no nuance to her.
It's just the cersei that weknew from like seasons one
through four, one through five.
(16:40):
They're gone, like she was socunning and ruthless, and in
season eight it was just more ofa predict.
It's so predictable, it'ssomewhat shallow.
She's the queen for like oneseason and it just it wasn't a
satisfying arc.
That okay.
Why is she?
Why is she the queen that lastseason all she does is drink
wine and look out the window.
(17:02):
The same was same with johnsnow.
Yes, my queen.
Yes, my queen, yes, my queenlike he does nothing, he.
He brings nothing to the tableyeah in that last season.
So I I love john, but I'm justsaying show season eight, john
was overrated and annoying as f.
You have another overrated, I'msorry no, I was.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I was just going to say the reason that I don't
consider those characters inthose moments overrated is
because I don't think anyonelikes them at that point.
Everyone agrees that I thinkthat season 8 Cersei is boring,
and not herself, and it's notfun to watch all those seasons,
Even season 7.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
We could say Cersei.
I mean, the one moment Cerseihas in season seven that is so
ruthless and so peak Cersei iswhen she has the Sand Snakes,
the mother and one of thedaughters in a dungeon.
That is just pure evilness andthat's something that Cersei
would do.
But there's not that manymoments like that in the last
(18:03):
two seasons.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
As for Underrated, I have a deep cut Okay, Deep cut
from the show, just because Iremember mentioning that this
character was underrated on thepodcast and that's Yoren Yoren
from season one, the guy fromthe like that helps save Arya.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Oh, yes, yes, the Night Watchman.
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah, the Night Watchman.
When Ned Stark is beingbeheaded, he's the you know.
When he's being sentenced, orlike you know, going up on that
like deus thing, ned tells Joran, like take care of Arya, in a
way you know, and then heprotects Arya.
And if it wasn't for Joran thenArya would be dead.
So shout out to JoranUnderrated, deep cut character.
(18:42):
I'm going to pick him.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I have some big characters though.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Well, one character is not a big character.
I love Podrick.
Every scene he's in he's justso comforting for me he's kind
of like a.
Sam.
But Sam is a big character andjust Podrick is there and he's
so loyal, like he's so loyal toto tyrian and he's so loyal to
brianne.
You know, I would want him on myteam and he's you know, they
(19:13):
had a little funny moment withhim and the girls.
I thought it was funny.
But even though he's not thebest fighter, he'll, if he sees
somebody that he's with, likehe'll go and like try to save
them, like no matter what, evenif that means his life.
He's sacrificing himself andthat's somebody that you don't
see in this kind of world.
So that's my one minorcharacter, underrated, pick,
(19:36):
underrated, I could say Brienne,but I want to say the Hound.
The Hound was such an evilcharacter those first kind of
two seasons and I think thatseason three and four he's still
that killer, but he kind of hada little soft spot for the
Stark girls.
It's hard because we actuallygot a question from Grant, our
(19:56):
friend Movies and Shit, that'shis name on IG, but he asked a
question about the Hound.
But before we get to that, Ijust want that's.
He has a blend of like, like hegoes from brutal, cynical
killer to someone who's likequestioning his own purpose.
You know what I mean.
Like he goes from loyal dog toF the king F, this F that I'm
(20:23):
leaving, I'm going to savemyself but also then save him.
He does protect Arya, I mean hedid take her to the Eyrie and
they're like, no, nobody's here.
So the question from Grant heasked do you think Sandor
Clegane will return in the booksor is he dead, dead?
And two, if Sandor returns, doyou think you'll get a similar
(20:44):
redemption arc involving Aryaand Sansa, or no?
so book reader answer thisplease so, uh, arya, like in the
show, she leaves the hound fordead, like remember, he's saying
just kill me, take me out of mymisery.
She doesn't.
She's like you know what, justyou just die there.
So she kind of leaves and wethink as an audience for the
(21:06):
show, for people watching theshow, that he's dead and he kind
of shows up in what mid seasonsix, and he's part of that.
Not a cult, but a littlecommunity.
I would say uh, remember, inseason six he shows up and he's
part of that little community.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
I forgot the name of the guy.
Yeah, I remember.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
The guy from Deadwood , yeah, I think he will show up
again in the books and I thinkhe will probably make it a point
to figure out a way to havethat arc and protect these girls
, because right now in the book,brienne is trying to find Jaime
and the Hound.
Yeah, by orders of ladystoneheart, you know that's,
(21:47):
that's what she wants dead.
So, yeah, I, I agree.
So.
But what do you think about?
Like, I mean, you're gonna getto this in this book.
I think I think it's this bookthat he dies.
It's right after the redwedding or maybe the beginning
of the fourth book, but anyway,you'll get to.
You'll get to it pretty soon.
Do you think he'll come back?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
yeah, there's no way that george just would just
leave him.
The same way that, like, Ithink john is obviously going to
come back, even in the books,because that's where, like, the
books end right, like with johnbeing dead.
So, yeah, yeah, I think they'llbe back.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
They have to be yeah, let's go to our next question.
From anonymous underscore trtropes and got that you're tired
of.
And maybe he's saying in pastathe to the Dragon as well, and
maybe the next show that'scoming up.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Okay.
So when you sent me thisquestion earlier, I was the most
excited to answer this, or Iwas really excited about
answering this because Iimmediately knew the answer, but
I wish I took the time to atleast word it better before
recording or gathering mythoughts in one concise tropepe,
because it's not just somethingas simple as, like you know,
the tropes that you see ononline like enemy celebrities,
(22:53):
friends delivers and all that.
It's not that, it's just if Iwere to like say it in a certain
way, it's how women are kind ofused in a very exploitative
manner within the stories.
I think that in the show and inthe world, it's like not
necessary to make it a big partof the world, part of all the
stories.
Especially in the show, thereare so many scenes where we get,
(23:15):
you know, these women that worklike a certain type of job.
I don't want to say the word,but they work these jobs and
they're like their, theirpresence in the scene and what
they're doing isn't like weshouldn't see those things like.
I know that I'm like a modestperson or whatever, but like the
, the graphicness, thegraphicness I don't know the
word, but like the it's, it'stoo graphic and we don't need to
(23:37):
see it, especially because in alot of those scenes the women
are like not consenting or youknow, it's something that's
exploitative.
As I said, it's not.
It's it's not a comfortablething for me to to watch as a
reader.
I don't think that it's anecessary part of of the stories
or something I want to see onscreen.
So it's that trope and actually, if I would just sorry, I
(24:00):
finally remembered the word,like I'm just going to sum it up
into a very simple word.
It's like the abuse, the abuseof women in the stories.
You know, like we see it withsansan, you, it was very
unnecessary to see that onscreen and you know it wasn't
part of the original story.
It just breaks your heart.
And then you know there isCersei as well and there's
obviously Dany, which is nottrue to the book.
So I guess it's just like thisexploitative, abusive kind of
(24:23):
depiction of women.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I'm not saying that, that's a reflection of george or
anything, but it's just notnecessary.
I'm tired of seeing it.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
It's just like a repetitive pattern of like
trauma and victimization forthem, just like all over and
over, and then, like Iunderstand, because you'll have
a scene of bailish and ross yeahand then all of a sudden, like
four girls pop up and they'reyou know, they're jumping up and
down naked like, yeah, okay,what's the purpose of it's just
basically eye candy for guys,just to look yes, and it's like
it's abusive and it's likeexploitative, like I think, in
(25:01):
real life, to have to filmsomething like that and also
like within the world, likeobviously you can make the
excuses like, oh, but in theworld, but those it's like it's
a fantasy.
We don't need for those thingsto exist and have it be so
prevalent.
And you know, as we'vementioned before in the podcast,
like they change some things tomake it more abusive on the
show than it is in the book, sothose things are really not
(25:23):
necessary.
Very unfortunate, very, very, Iguess, frustrating, for for me
as a woman and as a fan of thisworld, that's a part of it as
well.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
House of the Dragon does do a good job of toning it
down.
We don't really see it as much.
We did see it in that first,first episode of you know.
All of a sudden they cut toDamon and he's just boom, boom,
boom, boom.
It's like okay, okay, okay,let's remind everybody, it's
Game of Thrones.
Sudden they cut to damon andhe's just boom, boom, boom, boom
.
It's like okay, okay, okay,let's remind everybody, it's
game of thrones, we have to seethat.
But after that we don't reallysee that that's true we see like
(25:56):
love, actually like love scenes.
But then I go, I just remember,we go back to season two and we
I'm thinking about alice in thefirst two episodes.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
It's like okay yeah, like I think that like the house
of the dragon stuff, you cankind of give some sort of
explanation for like even thealice and stuff.
I remember at one point I waslike, oh, but like they're
saying that this is like arelease for alice and you know
she's, this is her arc beinglike she's letting go of who she
is like okay, there's somethingthere, there's something of
(26:27):
substance.
It's not her being like abused.
You know what I mean.
Even when alicent is like, um,when she like spends the time
with viserys you know what Imean.
Like when they're like, youknow, like it's not an abusive
scene, like that's obviouslywhat she where her story was
going.
It's heartbreaking to see, butit's not abuse.
So I think, think that thereason why it's so much better
(26:49):
than House of Dragons isobviously because now it's not
acceptable and it's so it was abig criticism of Game of Thrones
but also because there are justmore women involved.
I think that all the abusivescenes or those uncomfortable
scenes that we got in Game ofThrones is, of course, a
reflection of how it's soprevalent in HBO and in American
television anyways, um, alsobecause they really didn't have
(27:09):
as much women working on theshow.
They weren't, as you know, likethey weren't a big part of it.
So I guess, for them, havingthese scenes they think adds
meaning to these women's arc, orlike the guys are, or even if
like, just, maybe, just like alittle bit, but mostly, as you
said, just like stuff for theguys, as you said, it's like an
easy pinpoint of trauma, do youknow, because they can't think
(27:31):
that a woman can experienceanything else other than, yeah,
this, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
So I, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna stop
talking if, if you, if you, ifyou let me so, so please you
answer the question no, I, thatwas one of my big issues um as
well and um, and I think I don'tthink we'll see that in the
night of the seven kingdoms no,I don't I don't.
I don't think we'll see that atall.
My other big trope that I wasgetting tired of is I wouldn't
(27:59):
be tired of if it went somewhere, and that's the power of like
prophecy again see house of thedragon, all with the song of ice
and fire, like okay that's notgoing anywhere, so it wasn't
really needed.
In house of the dragon it couldhave like maybe it's just
somebody saying it in passing,like in they're seeing, they're
(28:19):
seeing a book, oh, song of iceand fire.
Okay, that's it, we don't hearabout it again.
But but to make it so prevalentlike this is the reason why you
need to be, we need to rule,like okay, maybe if this was the
first show.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
And we're like, okay, that sounds really interesting,
azura High and this.
And I'm like, okay, I thoughtthe Prince that was promised
that sounds really interesting,so magical, but it doesn't go
anywhere.
And we're like, okay, I thoughtthe Prince that was promised
that sounds really interesting,so magical, but it doesn't go
anywhere.
And we're like, okay, andeverybody's just rolling their
eyes.
People who are hardcore Game ofThrones fans are like, yeah,
(28:59):
okay, whatever, what's next?
Like fine, it sounds good theway Paddy Constantine says it
and his way of saying it in theshow.
It sounds powerful're like it'sfor, not because it's who cares
?
Uh, so those were my biggestthings.
And, um, obviously, like theseason six, seven, eight, we
have the convenience of plot.
armor is so yeah prevalent and,like so many people, do not die.
(29:24):
It gets annoying, you know,like when they go beyond the
wall they should have all died.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
There's no way that they survive.
The one that you can connectHouse of the Dragon and Game of
Thrones is the prophecy thing,because we got sold a bill of
goods when it comes to Game ofThrones.
Not in the novels, it's stillgood, it's still there, but in
the show it's just like suckers,okay.
(29:53):
Next question is fromThatFilmDude.
He asked have your thoughtschanged on House of the Dragons,
season 2, or are they still thesame?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
I think that when we recorded with Shan and Louis
over on the fellowship of themic, like I had already said,
that some thoughts changed, likein those few weeks, I think, or
a couple of weeks or a week anda half or whatever after the
finale.
I forgot how long it was, but Iremember saying that you know,
some things did change and Iremember you being shocked
(30:23):
because I remember I think Isaid something like allison's
was suddenly became my highlightof the season, even though I
was like criticizing her.
I was criticizing her for weekson end, like for months.
So, um, my thoughts did changewith time, but I think that for
me to like give this a properanswer, I'd have to wait until
next year.
Like so far, I'd say no, likesince then, since the fellowship
of the mic recording, no, butmy thoughts didn't change that
(30:46):
much, like I still have the sameproblems with, I still have the
same like praises of it, but Idon't have anything that
different to say.
I think I can give a clearanswer or an updated answer, I
guess next year, before seasonthree premieres of House of the
Dragon.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
We're not going to do a revisit analyzing, because we
already did it.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
So what we can do is like watch the whole season and
kind of do a little mini recapof season two and in a future
episode next year when it comesout.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Yeah, we should.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Knock on wood.
No, I like I think I would haveto wait and rewatch the season.
Right off the top of my head,obviously, is the pacing issue,
which was completely 180 ofseason one, where we were like
it's too fast, it's too fast andI was like can we please leave
Harrenhal?
You know, it's just like getout of this place, you're
(31:42):
driving me nuts.
And the lack of action taken bycharacters was getting
frustrating and I gave it a passbecause I love the characters
and I love their performances.
But it was like, okay, you know, let's get this going, because
we can't see you beingfrustrated every episode and
(32:04):
then not do anything.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
You're the queen yeah , exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
You're not part of the small folk who's complaining
in the saloon oh these damnTargaryens, which is fine, but
you can't do nothing, and I getit.
You can complain every dayabout them, but when you're the
queen, you shouldn't becomplaining about the same thing
in every small council meeting.
Just do something.
(32:28):
When I call her the being apacifist, they made her into
that after making her sohell-bent on revenge in the end
of season one and the beginningof season two when she just said
I want Daemon Targaryen, You'relike okay, here we go, here we
go Daemon, Daemon.
Yeah, yeah, daemon, I'm sorry,what did I say?
Speaker 2 (32:50):
You said Damon twice, it's Amen, it's.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Damon Amen, sorry, not Damon.
Well, she wanted to kill Damonin the second episode.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Don't say that gets us started on Damon too.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
So I mean, that's the one thing that's probably going
to be the one thing I'll belooking for when I rewatch it
next year.
Those are our thoughts forseason two as of right now.
Here's a funny one.
I love movies.
Underscore 44.
It has a question for you,minwa.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Me Specifically.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yes, it says, Minwa.
Did you watch Potter over theholidays?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I didn't, I didn't, I wanted to, but I forgot, I
didn't.
I didn't, I wanted to, but Iforgot, I didn't.
No, I made a very unwisedecision.
This winter I re-watched loveactually for like the fifth time
and I kind of got boredwatching it because I was like I
memorized this movie, um, and Iwas just like I'm I committed
to watching it.
(33:45):
I'm halfway through and I can'tbelieve Sideshow is this movie.
I should have waited anotherfive years or something, cause I
, I memorized it.
So I wish I picked Harry Potter,but no, uh, there's always time
, Maybe.
Maybe now it's still cold here,so, or like as cold as it's
going to get for Bahrain.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
So um, I actually watched the Sorcerer of the
Stone I just put play.
They have all eight.
They have all eight in, I think, disney and then I think HBO
Max has them all.
I think there's like fivedifferent streaming services
that have all the Potter movies.
They're just everywhere.
(34:19):
It's like you can't escape them.
I had a good time, you know,always the one that's the fun,
not the best.
Happy Christmas, ron.
Happy Christmas Harry.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Know always the one.
It's the fun, not the best, buthappy christmas.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Happy christmas, harry, oh but no, I don't know
where's christmas?
Speaker 2 (34:35):
christmas is every, every day for me.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I can watch it anytime we actually got two
questions, uh, concerning ourthoughts on season seven and
eight of game of thrones andwe're going to put them together
and then kind of answer it andsay that uh, caden underscore
crippin asks if you all couldrewrite season seven and eight
of got.
How would change it?
Slash, end it?
(34:57):
Travel enthusiasts did anotherquestion, saying in a perfect
world, how would season eighthave ended?
I I love the questions, but Ithink we both agree that we want
to like bookmark thesequestions.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Because, like, we really want to like dive deep
into this, because, like we wantto make like a special, special
episode or two of just aboutwhat we would have done if we
were the writers and we wouldhave kicked out D&D Okay, we're
taking over, look for that inthe future.
And we would have kicked outD&D Okay, we're taking over,
look for that in the future.
So we're going to bookmarkthose two questions and we'll
definitely bring up your namesagain when we do Giving us
(35:35):
inspiration.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, and because you want to know.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yeah, this is a fun one.
Non-game of Thrones related.
What were your favorite movies?
Slash shows of 2024?
.
Okay, while you find your info,I'm going to just rattle off my
top 10.
I'm not going to tell you theranking, I'm just going to tell
you the 10 movies that are in mytop 10.
At the moment.
It's not official because Istill haven't seen Nosferatu and
(36:01):
the Brutalist and I haven'tseen Chalamet's new movie about
Bob Dylan.
I still want to see those first,but these are the 10 movies
that are in the top 10 as ofright now.
I was going to say it's the28th.
What's today's date?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
The 18th.
The 17th.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
I have Kneecap.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, I heard of it.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Small Things Like these.
The film with Cillian Murphy.
The film with uh, killianmurphy ghost light, which I just
watched, and just I was bawlinglike a little kid which one
ghost light?
Oh, I didn't see it.
I'll send it to you.
But it's just when aconstruction worker unexpectedly
joins a local theater'sproduction of romeo and juliet,
alongside his estranged teenagedaughter, the drama on stage
(36:44):
starts to mirror his own life itjust took it just took me by
surprise and I was just likeokay, I have sing sing yeah uh,
anora challengers doom.
part two the substance and amovie that I just watched the
other day, the count of montecristo, which is a french film,
(37:07):
and let me just tell you thatthat just movie movie just kind
of blew me away.
I couldn't believe how good itwas.
I couldn't believe how just theproduction of it I felt like I
was watching one of those epicsfrom the 60s or 70s and 80s.
Just so well done and it'salmost three hours long.
But you're like edge of yourseat, you're so into it.
(37:28):
You go back to that Roger ebertquote when he says no good
movie is too long and no badmovie is too short.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
it's true, um.
So some of my favorites of theyear.
Again, there are a lot that Ihaven't seen as well.
Um, counts of monte cristo islike a top priority for me now,
like the 2024 films that I'vemissed um, but the movies that I
love.
This year we're doing part two.
Wicked um sing, sing as well.
Dd.
I really enjoyed.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Oh that's in my top 20 okay, uh, dd is really nice.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
the wild robots, um, enora.
The substance, um, I thinkthat's like it, even the one
that you said Small Things Likethese.
Another movie I really want towatch is we Live in Time.
There's also like a Thai movieI heard really good things about
, which is how to Make MillionsBefore Grandma Dies.
That was really good as well.
(38:22):
Haven't seen the Brutalist I'ma bit behind but those are my
favorite movies of the year sofar.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
I'm a bit behind but those are my favorite movies of
the year so far.
So I'm going to tell you themovies that I have from 11 to 15
.
I'm going to tell you wherethey're ranked.
I'll say Wild Robot, a RealPain, the Order, strange Darling
and we Live in Time.
We Live in Time is like you'regoing to need a couple boxes of
tissues.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
That's fine.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
It's so good and I don't know, I don't understand
why this movie is not gettingmore play, because I thought it
was just beautiful performancesby them, both all right, really
quick for me.
Uh, best shows I watched in2024, the day of a jackal with,
uh, eddie redmayne.
I thought it just kind of blewme away.
I just binged it.
The Penguin, shogun, babyReindeer, the Bear, season 3,
(39:14):
fallout, arcane, season 2 wasbrilliant.
And lastly, I'm going to mentionAbbott Elementary, because my
daughter, I think in thebeginning of December, she's
like oh, I want to watch this.
So she kept seeing my TikTokclips, like really funny ones,
and I go oh, I want to watchthis.
So she kept seeing TikTok clips, really funny ones, and I go
well, I kind of watched thefirst three already and it
didn't really hook me.
(39:34):
So I go OK, I'll give itanother go.
Boom, we binged the whole thing.
We're up to date now with thenew season.
It's just so funny and soheartwarming and it's nice to
see these characters in thiskind of light.
And when I say these characters, of course I'm saying like
people of color, so you don'twill see teachers and like.
(39:56):
It's always like oh, in a movieor in a show, a drama, it's
because they're they're allhoodlums or they're gangs yeah
it's nice to see, uh, youngblack teachers, young women and
and getting it.
It's so good and it's so feelgood like I, I love seeing it,
like I.
There's so many references thatgoes back and forth and I and I
(40:18):
just I don't know I just why Ilove it.
And they kind of did thecrossover with it's always sunny
in philadelphia, which Ithought the crew from is always
sunny came into abbott, which Ithought the crew from as Always
Sunny came into Abbott okay, sothey couldn't really go super
hardcore like they do in AlwaysSunny, but it was just kind of
the way they did.
It was perfect because itwasn't too crass and it wasn't
(40:40):
too like they didn't make thecharacters in Always Sunny too
likeable.
They're still unlikable becausethey're they're still unlikable
because they're they're they'rereally bad people, but they're
funny in the show.
You ever watched the show Okay?
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
So anyway, those are my shows for 2024.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Okay, good, nice, nice picks.
I have a similar one, like onethat's on your list as well,
which is Shogun.
Obviously I'm broken, obviously.
Um, really really good andprobably like the best show of
the year.
Um, other than that, I thinknone of the other shows that I
watched premiered last year, butthey're what I watched last
year.
Um, so there's a k drama calledwelcome to sam dalry.
(41:19):
That's honestly one of the bestk dramas I've ever seen.
Like I'm the only one thatloves it this much, I think, but
I really really loved it.
Um, you know, a small town youknow so funny.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
I just watched the hot ones with the squid games
guys oh, yeah, yeah, yeah andone of the questions is what's
um, or maybe it was overrated,or what's your favorite k drama?
okay, and um, and then there wasone that said who would who
from these three K-pop bandssurvive Squid Game?
(41:53):
So it was just a funny questionand I think BTS and this other
two I don't know the other twogroups because my wife's, like I
said, the only one I know isthe BTS because that's Minwoo's
band.
But yeah, I recommend youwatching it.
It's kind of funny becausethey're so likable.
Yeah, those two.
I haven't watched season twoyet.
I heard it's just.
(42:14):
I know you said it, it was just.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
I did.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
I hated this, like I didn't hate it, so it wasn't
like was it just a repeat ofseason one.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
I'm still waiting for an arc to be completed, whereas
with season one you get like avery perfectly contained story
there.
Why do you need?
You know what I mean?
Like, like it's thematically itdoesn't serve anything new.
Acting wise not like nothingthat we haven't seen season one.
Story wise again nothing thatwe haven't seen season one.
There's no need to continue it.
It's just not necessary.
Season one was was just good onits own and it's had more to say
(42:47):
.
That's all I'll say, like whenseason three of Squid Game
premieres this year, even though, like, they are going to wrap
up the story, they're not goingto add anything of substance to
it.
I think Because everything thatwas of substance was just
perfectly communicated in seasonone.
So that was my thoughts on it.
But episode one is really good.
Season two, episode one Seasontwo, episode one just watch that
, don't watch the rest of seasontwo.
It's really really good.
(43:09):
Season two, episode one isbecause of the actor in it.
So if you know, you know you'llreally enjoy it.
So, yeah, bts will definitelywin Squid Game.
They just like on that topicthat you said.
But, yeah, I watched Squid Game,not all my favorites.
Welcome to Sam Del Rey is theK-drama that I mentioned.
I love it so much.
And then over the summer Icaught up on demon slayer and
(43:31):
jujutsu kaisen, two animes, um,and then like, just to continue
on this, um, like beats, I guess.
The only other shows that Ireally watched, I guess last
year, were also, like koreank-pop variety shows yeah so are.
Yeah, are you sure?
On disney plus, and then ranjinnanotour with 17 and, and then
that was my 2024.
I wasn't so heavy on TV showslast year.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Let me just mention one more show that we it's not a
2024 show, 2025.
It just came out last week forHBO, called the Pit, with Noah
Wiley.
He used to come out in ER 30years ago.
I can't believe 30 years ago.
Er was from like 94, I think itstarted and it's about he's a
doctor in the ER in Pittsburghand it takes the same formula as
(44:14):
24 with Kether Sutherland.
So, like, each episode of theseries is one hour of the day,
so it's 15 episodes in total.
You're about to see one shiftin this hospital, no, so the
first episode.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
See one shift in this hospital.
Oh.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
So the first episode is called 7 am and then the
second episode will be 8 am andso on and so forth, and I think
we watched the first episodelast night and I go, all this
stuff happened and we're still.
His day just started.
This is his first hour of theday and all this and just by the
time you watch all 15, you'relike that's just one of his days
(44:51):
of the year that he has to dealwith the chaos that is an ER in
a big city.
You go to New York City, LosAngeles, you're going to be
waiting 10, 12 hours, Unless youhave like a really
life-threatening injuries orillness that you have to be seen
right away.
If you're there because yourhead hurts or you bumped your
(45:11):
knee, they'll be like, okay,he's going to wait Because we
have to take care of this personwith a gunshot to his chest.
But yeah, I think the formulaworks better in this arena of ER
.
It's really well done, so Ireally recommend it, just based
off the first show.
Okay, back to the Q&A.
(45:32):
Actually, this is from Shanfrom Forager.
She actually asked about Season3, and I forgot to mention it
when we were talking about Gameof Thrones Season 3.
Will you be re-watching Season3 episodes for your discussion?
If so, can we do a watch party?
Yes, shan, you bring the beer,I'll bring the chips.
Meanwhile, we'll bring whatcookies?
(45:53):
I guess so uh, we would have tofigure that out logistically how
we can do that.
That'll be fun just to watchgame of thrones with friends.
Okay, this is a fun questionhere from jakelit.
As three glt characters you'dgo on a road trip with not, I'm
(46:14):
not talking about like an hour,I'm talking about like a real
road trip.
Like you have to go across thecountry in the us.
It's gonna take you three days.
You're stuck with these people.
Oh well, you know what I'msaying.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Like here you have to like actually drive I know,
yeah, so that's like unfamiliarterritory for me I mean, let me
put it into perspective.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Last friday I picked up my wife from her mother's and
it's two and a half hours away,so I drove over there two, two
hours and 40 minutes picked herup.
We stayed there for like anhour, then we drove back home
another two hours and 40 minutes.
So that's like five plus hoursin one day.
But easy, I mean, do that allthe time.
So so you're saying that yourlongest trip is two hours total,
(46:56):
like two hours to one place andtwo hours back, or like two,
like one hour and one hour?
Speaker 2 (47:01):
within the past couple of years, like the most
that I've done is like, uh, itwasn't in bahrain, it was
somewhere else.
But like from the airport tothe hotel, two hours by car,
like an hour and 45 minutes,that was the most.
And then again, when we leftthat country, so it was
something like that, that wasthe most that that I've done in
a and yeah, so road trips don'texist, kind of in Bahrain,
(47:21):
because a two hour drive we'llend up in Saudi.
It's in a whole other country.
It's not like you can't spendtwo hours in a car in Bahrain
unless there's traffic.
So if there's no trafficwhatsoever and it's just like a
straight highway, yeah, you'regoing to end up in Saudi, and
within Bahrain, it's justprobably going to be like maybe,
I guess, an hour and a half, Idon't know.
So I'm not a road trip person.
(47:44):
I get carsick.
So this question is likeunfamiliar territory for me.
But with everything that I said, I would say I'm just going to
go for a very safe car ride.
I'm going to pick Jon Snow,sansa Stark and Bran Stark, just
because I, as I said, I wouldget car sick.
So I would just need like tosit in a car with my AirPods in
(48:05):
or like my headphones in, listento music, look out the window,
have someone else drive, or likeI'll drive when it's my turn
and just have it be peaceful.
No one's fighting.
It's not going to be even fun.
I just need to get to mydestination.
Do you know what I mean?
Like everyone needs to be intheir own world.
And my destination?
Do you know what I mean?
Like everyone needs to be intheir own world, and then we
will get back to tocommunicating and talking once
we get to our destination,because otherwise just don't
(48:26):
talk to me.
I want to be in my own world ofmy music so that I don't get
carsick.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
So yeah, that's me so you just said that if you
should drive two hours, you'd bein another country.
So here's a little mind-blowingstat.
So I just googled from where Ilive now to where my mother
lives in new york city.
So it would take 36 hours todrive wow, from here to my mom's
(48:52):
house wow, have you ever donesomething like that?
no, the most driving I've doneis from San Francisco to like
somewhere in Arizona.
It was like 12, 13 hours.
And then I drove from Tucson toSan Antonio three times and
(49:12):
it's like 11 to 12 hours.
Those are the most I've driven.
But yeah, for me I'm going todo my road trip.
Obviously I'm going to haveTyrion.
He's obviously a greatconversationalist.
He's going to keep iteverything lighthearted, with
the humor and the storytellingand and, uh, if he's in a we're
in a difficult situation and Iget, uh stopped by a police, I
(49:34):
could tell, tyrian, can you talkour way out of this?
Uh.
My next person will be aria.
I think aria is like, has thesense of adventure, like she's
gonna wanna see everything andbe, you know, resourceful, and
she's tough and she could adaptto anything that we have, or she
, she, she'll be like happy tochange it's higher or something.
(49:56):
The third one, I think brianne.
I think she's the mostdependable person she's strong,
she's not gonna drink.
She'll be the one that probablydoes the most driving and maybe
she'll have a good time in a way, like she'll figure out a way
to have fun in this trip.
(50:16):
She's always serious and youknow she's.
She's lived a life of ridicule,or you know what I'm saying.
So for her to find some kind ofjoy in this trip will be kind
of fun.
We've come to our last questionand this is probably the
juiciest one we got and that'swhy I left it last and I sent
you this and I go.
This is a thinker here becauseit has so many parts.
(50:38):
So this last question comesfrom hasanha and his question is
if selmy were alive when tyriangot to marine, okay, would
danny have accepted tyrian intoher council?
I think so I don't think thatshe would.
He would become a close, closeadvisor because she would have
(50:58):
some no yeah sell me and tyriannever interact.
So I don't know like what'stheir dynamic, like what's their
uh relationship, because wenever, we don't know.
We know that sell me will alwaysbe her closest advisor because
he is a targaryen loyalist andhe was a king's guard for her
(51:19):
father and he knew her brother.
She can confide in some me witheverything.
He would probably say look,we're going to Westeros and
we're going to have to deal withthe Lannisters.
It would be nice to havesomebody who knows this family
in and out, so let's just havethem there.
We can ask some questions whenwe need to.
The question I want to ask,based off this question, is that
(51:41):
once Daenerys gets toDragonstone and she gets to the
painted table and she says, letus begin, okay, she has Selmy
there as her hand of the queen,not Tyrion how differently would
the war have taken shape?
Would she be sitting in theIron Throne?
I say yes, I will.
(52:02):
Will say yes, I'll let youanswer I think.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
So I don't know, thinking about it now, like you
know, his death was useless.
They killed him off for like noreason.
You know, I think it didn't.
It wasn't because he had beefwith dnd, like the actor, or
something like that.
So imagine if that like onesmall thing like, and we, like
it feels like a yes, you knowwhat I mean.
For us it feels like, yeah,like I think she, she, she would
(52:25):
, and then it makes you angrierbecause it's just because of dnd
again, you know what I meanlike seemingly small, like
change, I guess you know it'slike a butterfly effect, like,
oh, he, like the actor, had onelike argument, dnd or whatever.
So they killed him off.
And then that because he's alivein the books, right, yes, he's
not dead about how big of a rolehe's going to play, because
(53:01):
that'll give you a clear answer.
But to me it feels like yeah,yeah, like I guess she would
have.
But then what?
What do you think he would havetold her?
Like what do you think wouldhave been the direct difference
that he he had?
You know, like I think yes, butwhy do you think that it's a
yes for you?
Speaker 1 (53:15):
I think that, uh, with tyrian, he had the
political cunningness andfondness for playing the game of
their own, but I think, likeBerenstain was more
straightforward, honor boundapproach he would have.
He would have.
They probably would haveclashed, let's be honest.
Yeah, but it still would havebeen nice to have Tyrion there.
(53:37):
I think having Selmy therewould have been easier because
he could have given her a deeperunderstanding of the
consequences of certaindecisions which Tyrion tried to
do in the show.
When she burns the Tarlys andshe's like we shouldn't be doing
(53:57):
this, blah, blah, blah, blah.
She's like shut up, I'm, I'mgonna do what I want.
Having some way there wouldhave taken her aside, and I
think she would have steppedaside and just listened to
bernson more carefully and sayyou know what, maybe, maybe
you're right, because there is apoint and even in the show
there's a one point where hetakes her to the side and said
(54:17):
look, this is not, you don'twant to be, uh, remembered as as
a murderer, remember, she justwants to kill and she just she's
like okay, you know, and Ithink that he would have brought
that to to westeros and I thinkit would have been easier for
the nearest again um alliancesif she had selmy with her.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Oh yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
I think Seryn was so.
Selmy was such an honorable manin this Westeros that I think
he would have gotten somesupport right away, and I don't
think he's not going to send theUnsullied to Casterly Rock.
He probably said, look, we needto, let's take a chill pill.
Let's wait two weeks.
(55:03):
We're going to.
This is going to be our defense.
This is the strategy.
We're going to hit King'sLanding all full force.
We have the ships, we have theUnsullied, we have the Dothraki,
we have your three powerfuldragons Bottom line.
(55:24):
I think, sami, we criticizedtyrian for his lack of judgment
when it came to being the headof the queen.
He outsmarted himself like hewas trying to be too.
Uh, what am I trying to say?
He was trying to like thinkfive chest moves ahead without
looking at the, the move that heneeds to make first, like I don
, I don't know.
I'm trying to like figure outhow to say it right, because he
made too many blunders.
(55:44):
This is what I'm saying, yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
I mean, sometimes I feel like Tony's a bit harsh on
his favorite character.
You know, like Tony's a bitharsh on Tyrion for what you say
about him as Han, but honestly,like TV show Tyrion, tv show
Tyrion, tv show Tyrion.
But I think that, like you know, you're right on the fact that
Ser Barristan definitely wouldhave been a wiser presence.
(56:07):
You know, yeah, tyrion was kindof he was trying too hard,
basically, you know, and wasjust trying to do whatever he
could.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
So even the line with Olenna she says your hand.
He thinks he's very clever.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
I forgot that line.
Um, imagine he has her personthere and him with olen.
I think that would have been areally interesting dynamic to
see, because I think they wouldhave kind of been on the same
page.
They see danny as the dragon.
Speaker 1 (56:32):
You know, I don't think that tyrian ever really
saw her in that way, or if hedid, it wasn't in a good way
whereas I think that's yeah,because you think about it like
sami would have had her bestinterest at heart, which is get
the iron throne, tyrian is likehow do I screw my family?
Speaker 2 (56:52):
yeah I guess.
So yeah, like I want to.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
I want to help, I want to help the nearest, but
let me.
Yeah, he was so focused ongetting revenge on Cersei, not
on his brother, but I think thatwas the leading cause for him.
Oh, yes, let's do Casterly Rock, but this is one of those
what-if questions that I mean wecould take an hour thinking
about, because you know Selmyinteracting with Jon Snow.
(57:16):
You know Selmy respected NedStark so much as an honorable
man and I think I that respectwould have been mutual from Jon
to Selmy and they could probablywork together, but I don't see
Selmy going.
Yes, let's go up beyond the wallno he would be like nah, we're
good, we're good, we don't needto convince this queen of
(57:37):
anything.
She, we have the queen righthere yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (57:43):
Oh my gosh, that's such a good point actually,
because you know, when you saidthat person and like we don't
need to convince the queen, wehave the queen right here, I
like, oh, that makes me angrierabout season eight, but like
that's what they should havedone and that's what person
would have done, and I guess ifyou had that kind of person
saying that and being that, thenlike cersei's power would just
(58:04):
like go away in an instancebecause danny would have like
helped them.
They would defeat the whitewalkers.
Everything taken care of that.
And she has her dragons.
She has no ice dragons, so it'snot like that they lose the
dragons to the white walkers andeverything.
Speaker 1 (58:17):
That's what happened under sabarasa baris and I
decided, and then um, exactlybecause obviously it would have
been more logical, I guess theywouldn't have a nice dragon,
they wouldn't have a way tocross the wall yeah, and then
what does?
Speaker 2 (58:30):
what does cersei have ?
And then you know what I mean.
Like what?
The golden company they like,they can't take those people out
she has so.
Speaker 1 (58:38):
And once the south sword see the dragons, they
would have been pooping in theirpants, they would have run away
but like whatever, we don'thave loyalty to you yeah,
exactly so.
Speaker 2 (58:47):
Oh, that just made me so much angrier because, if you
think about it, it's just likeone character that could have
caused all this difference.
Right, like I like I'm gettingI don't know if I'm just
rambling because I'm like tiredbut I'm getting angrier and
angrier about this because ofthis question.
It's like it's a very goodquestion, but it's making me
angry about season eight again,and we should stop ourselves
when we're talking about seasoneight, because we're going to
(59:09):
get there, and we always stopourselves because otherwise we
won't stop.
Speaker 1 (59:14):
Sorry, we're going to have to rewrite our own little
script for season seven andeight.
But write our own little scriptfor season seven and eight and,
but we can't have, we can'thave.
So me we can't have, becausehe's he's dead in season five,
so we have to figure somethingout he comes back from the dead.
Speaker 2 (59:28):
Because magic, because magic yes, all right.
Speaker 1 (59:34):
Well, that's going to be all for our first episode of
2025 and our first episode ofseason three of dancing with
dragons, and our next episodewe're going to tackle the night
of the seven kingdoms.
We'll do a little preview onthe show, tell you about the
actors, where they've been, tellyou about the directors,
writers.
I know that we're thinkingsummer, probably august, but
(59:58):
that's going to be a fun show.
We won't spoil the show for youor it's the season, so that'll
be fun.
Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Yes, tony and I are very excited to talk about the
97 kingdoms.
I know something that so manyof you are looking forward to.
If you have any questions aboutthat as well, let us know
anything specific you want us totalk about.
We will be rereading the firststory so what season one is
about before we record.
So we're going to come allprepared for you guys for our
next episode and, as I said, ifyou have anything you want us to
(01:00:25):
address specifically, be sureto just let us know.
On instagram, our at is atdancing with underscore dragons
and, of course, if you're a fanof the podcast, be sure to add,
listen and download our episodeson your preferred listening
platforms and give us a rating,interview or comment as well, if
you get the chance.
Thank you guys.
So much for listening.
We'll see you on the next one.
Welcome everyone to the first episode of 2025 and
season 3 of Dancing with Dragons.
I'm Tony and I'm here with theamazing Minwa and we're your
hosts for this podcast.
That is your ultimatedestination for everything in
the world of Westeros and beyond.
Whether you're pledged yourloyalty to House Stark,
swanfield, to the Targaryens, orstill dream of a world where
the Night King reigns supreme,this is the place where we dive
(00:32):
deep into the lore, history andshows and stories that have
captivated us all.
Before I explain what our firstepisode of the year is going to
be about, I'd like to wish myco-host, minwa, a very happy
birthday.
It was yesterday, but still,how was your day?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
It was good.
Thank you for asking, tony.
It was fine Celebrated withfamily and friends, chill.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Were you pampered.
Are you too old for that?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Like I guess my friends and family treated me,
had some good food, some of myfavorite food, played some nice
fun games.
There's actually a really funnystory I have to mention on the
podcast.
So one of my friends who mightbe listening, she made like a
quiz that's like just about meand like my interests, my
hobbies and stuff.
So you are part of it too,because one of the questions was
(01:19):
true or false.
Minua's co-host on her podcast.
His name is joey and mostpeople got his rights.
Most people said false and hisname is sony.
So you were part of it and thepodcast was part of it too.
There were there, yeah, therewere another question.
There was another questionabout the podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
So, um, that's why my this, that's why my ears were
ringing.
I go.
What's going on?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
because you were part of my birthday.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Cool uh, so, um, for our first episode of the year,
it's going to feel like sort ofa deja vu.
Last January we began 2024 witha Q&A and Minhwa and I talked
and figured, since last year'sQ&A episode was fun to record
and also one of our mostdownloaded of last year.
Why not start the same for 2025?
(02:04):
Unloaded of last year why notstart the same for 2025?
So last week I was listening tolast year's Q&A and I started
smiling because there's twoquestions we got that I knew
we'd get again this year.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
We did.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So our first question for our 2025 Q&A is from our
friend, louis Lulu Reviews.
Now he's the permanent co-hostof the Fellowship of the Mike
with Shan.
His question is Minwa, have youfinished A Clash of Kings yet?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
he asked it last year first of all, I am done with A
Clash of Kings.
Everybody clap for me.
I'm joking.
I'm finally done.
I said that by the next episodeI'd be done with the book, and
of course I am.
I kept true to my I'd be donewith the book, and of course I
am.
I kept true to my word.
I'll one-up him.
I even started the third book.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Oh my gosh for real.
No, really I did.
I'm not that far into it.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I just went past the prologue, but I didn't dive deep
yet, but I started it, so thereyou go.
There's the update for 2025.
Stay tuned.
I don't know when I'll be done.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I'll add an applause to this when I can, if I can,
okay.
So, funny enough, he has asecond question.
It's one that he asked lastyear as well.
Okay, what are you lookingforward to when covering Season
3 of Game of Thrones?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Oh my God.
Okay, what are you?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
looking forward to when covering season three of
Game of Thrones, oh my God.
Okay.
So before we answer, let megive everyone a quick
explanation on why we didn'treview, slash, analyze, season
three really quick.
So last January we decided we'dstart covering the season in
March, thinking that House ofthe Dragon season two would come
out in late August.
The plan was whenever we gotthe official premiere date, we
(03:44):
scheduled time to revisit thefirst season of House of the
Dragon.
Hbo threw a little monkeywrench into our plan and
schedule and decided to releaseseason two in June.
So Minhwa and I made anexecutive decision to scrap
season three coverage of GOT andtackle season one of House of
the Dragon instead.
And by the time season two ofHouse of the Dragon concluded,
(04:05):
we had recorded like 21 straightweeks of reviewing and
analyzing HOTD stuff.
So we kind of needed a breakfrom that episodic reviews and
recordings.
So here we are, 2025.
Our coverage of season threewill begin soon, for sure.
And so back to the question.
(04:27):
The question is what are youlooking forward to in rewatching
season three?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Well, do you remember what I said last year?
It's probably going to be thesame.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Same thing, right, I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Red.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Wedding, daenerys.
Yeah, the only thing I kind ofwrote something you probably
agree with it I just wrote inseason three is a season season
of alliances, betrayals and uhgame changing moments, which is
the red wedding.
Uh.
It builds on the seriespolitical intrigue while setting
up major shifts in power.
So we see a lot of powerstructure being uh built up or
(05:01):
crumbling.
With the rewatch it'll give usa deeper appreciation for all
the characters and, like we'llsee the foreshadowing won't say
when, but pretty soon I thinkwe're gonna do a few more
episodes of uh standalone.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Um, like our next episode we want to focus on,
like previewing the night of theseven kingdoms show yeah, um,
as you all know by now, this isa q a episode for um, the
podcast, and like anintroduction to season three.
On the topic of the spinoffs,we got a question submitted to
us from my friend, besma, atbloom with besma, and she wants
(05:37):
us to talk about all thespinoffs and what to expect from
each of them.
Um, so the night of the sevenkingdoms one is the next episode
you can expect from us.
We're going to tell youeverything you need to know
about that and we'll also giveyou some very small updates on
all the other spin-offs andprojects in the works.
And while I'm here, besma alsoasked some other very
interesting questions for us toanswer.
(05:58):
She says what Game of Thronesrealm character did you least
expect to like but ended upliking?
And then she follows that up bysaying how did that character
convince you to like them andwhat do you see in them?
Now, and I have a bit of ashocking answer, I guess.
So I want you to start, please,and I want you to answer that
first.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Okay In terms of book , because you know his arc was
completely destroyed.
I'm going to say Jaime, becauseJaime was probably the most
hated person in that first fewchapters of him trying to kill
Bran.
With time and you see in theshow how they.
That's one of the best thingsthe show did, actually was
(06:35):
figure out a way for us tosomehow peel those onions, those
layers of his onion, and justto see how he was deep inside,
because he's not the same ascersei, because cersei is just
pure evil and I think what.
What really convinced me waswhen he was completely deflated,
vulnerable, in season three andwhen he has that conversation
(07:00):
of with brianne.
It's right after his.
His right hand is chopped off.
He feels less of a man.
He's telling the story aboutthe Mad King and why he had to
do what he did.
I think just after that you cansee that he still wants to go
to King's Landing, but he alsois becoming a good person in a
(07:22):
weird way.
Go.
You know what I like, jaime.
I think he's one of my favoritecharacters and I'm really
hoping that if we ever get thesebooks, you know, he'll find his
way in the right side ofhistory.
Westerosi history.
Because right now he's stillfighting for the Lannisters, for
his family.
So that would be my pick, and Iknow that's the easiest one to
(07:45):
say, but I truly believe thathe's one of the best, going from
detested to kind of beloved bythe end.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, I agree with you on Jaime.
I have, I think, two charactersthat I'd say apply that I guess
everyone kind of agrees with,and the first one is Jaime apply
that I guess everyone kind ofagrees with.
And the first one is Jamie um.
Like, by the end of it, I thinkI was just as annoyed about how
his arc ended as I was, likeDanny and everybody else,
because it's just, you know,like I cared about it that much.
(08:17):
So that's like a testament tomy journey with that character,
because of course, I didn't likehim in the beginning either.
And I guess the other pick thateveryone, I guess, or most
people, should or would agreewith is Sansa At the beginning.
You know, I watched Game ofThrones when I was like 14 years
old for the first time.
So, oddly enough, maybe Ishould have empathized with her
(08:38):
more at that age, but I was justso focused on, like, the main
plot.
You know what I mean Like, sofocused on, like the main plot
you know what I mean.
Like I wasn't like absorbing it,I guess, as thoroughly as I do
now, and you know, when youwatch for the first time, you
don't see things the way youwatch it, like on your fourth,
fifth time or whatever.
So at the beginning she reallyannoyed me.
I think by the time she went toKing's Landing, like maybe in
(09:00):
season two, starting season two,I started to be like okay, like
been up season two, startingseason two, I started to be like
okay, like this is actually apoor girl and and she needs help
, or like I wish I could helpher.
But at the same time I was likewhy isn't she just running away
?
You know, I was a bit I guess Idon't know how to describe it,
but frustrated with her, eventhough I felt sorry for her.
By season I think, four orsomething I just completely
(09:22):
changed my mind about her andwasn't frustrated with her at
all.
I was just frustrated with,like, what was happening to her
rather than her, and what herchoice is.
You know, like now, if you'veheard me on the podcast, you
know how much I love Sansa andyou know how I think that like
she has a right to be the bratthat she is kind of at the
beginning of the show.
So, yeah, I'd say those are thetwo main picks, but actually
the shocking pick that I have isactually Dani, and I don't
(09:45):
think anyone would have expectedthat, because when I watched
season one for the first time, Iwas so stark focused.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Can I just?
I just want to add somethingabout Sansa.
Like you said, she's very hated, especially with the bros who
they think she's just annoying.
She goes through a lot but shehas so much like resilience
throughout.
And then you could you couldtell that even though she's
being tortured or a prisoner,she's growing and she's maturing
(10:15):
and she's like getting all thatpolitical like strategy and
acumen from like she's oddlylearning from cersei of like
what not to do or to do, thatkind of like the opposite.
And just like she knows likewhat not to do or to do, that
kind of like the opposite.
And just like she knows likeshe had to adapt in like every
situation she's adapting andthen she has to go back home and
she has to everything she goesto so many different places.
She has to adapt.
(10:35):
So it's one of those thingsthat I wish we could have seen
the show with her as a leader,like showing her like a full
season of Sansa there, likedealing with with crises or
whatever that has to be dealtwith.
So yeah, I just wanted to addthat for Sansa.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Like, yeah, I wish we could see kind of more of her.
You know, like I was going tosay like about Dany as well.
Like I think in the beginningthe Starks really stole the show
, so that's what most people arejust focused on.
You're like, and I mean theStarks really stole the show, so
that's what most people arejust focused on.
You're like, and I mean theStarks, I mean like kind of Ned
Catelyn and like that situation,especially Ned.
you know he's our, he's our maincharacter, so you focus on him
and you really care about him,which works for season one.
(11:15):
But the disadvantage is thatyou don't really really like pay
attention, maybe the first timearound, to the others.
Obviously, my first time timewatching the show, my first like
favorite was Ned and I was sortof like John and I kind of felt
sorry for him because of theway the cat was treating him.
And I really liked Rob as wellbecause I was like, okay, like
this is someone that's likestepping up for his family and
(11:36):
like you know, I respected himand like you're so stark,
focused and you're like Arya'sspirit, you know, and how she's
like fighting to survive.
She's so charming in King'sLanding when you know, as a
Stark contrast, everybody elseStark contrast.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
But also when you think about the Starks, they're
everywhere.
So they're in King's Landing,Winterfell, Beyond the Wall, the
Castle Black.
So every storyline involvesStarks.
Yeah so they're like the threadthat you follow, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah.
So they're like the heroesimmediately in your mind, like
subconsciously.
So I didn't really payattention to Dany at the first
time around, I think I was just.
I was like what's her deal?
Like where's this going?
You know, I couldn't see thevision.
So I didn't really love her inthe beginning, I didn't hate her
, but I was just like what's herstory, where is this going?
(12:27):
And like is this worth it?
What's the point, you know?
And then the moment where Ijust felt like I had an epiphany
or like my life changed was atthe end of season one, when I
don't know how, what exactly Idid, but I remember just pausing
and going wait, wait, wait,wait.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
You were born again believer of Daenerys.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yes, I was like I would do everything for her,
everything and anything.
Wait.
Like this is the story, this isthe character, and I just
immediately completely sawseason one in a different way at
that moment and I fell in lovewith her at that moment.
So it was just that, you know,and seeing, I guess, a woman
(13:06):
come into her own Because whenshe stands up, also from the
fire, she is like extremely,extremely confident.
For the first time she feelskind of like, I guess, defying
the norm, like I did thisbecause I believed in myself,
like that's the first time thatyou see Dani embody that and
embrace that and kind of havethat confidence.
So it was that switch in herthat activated a switch within
(13:27):
me.
Do you know what I mean?
Yes, and completely changed myperspective and then my whole
journey with Game of Thrones.
So yeah, dani Jamie Sansa.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Good, so let me go to our next question, because it's
kind of one of those thingsthat I don't like the term
overrated, underrated, it's kindof so subjective, you know but,
let's just give it a whirl.
It's from Travel Enthusiast.
He says what's the mostoverrated and underrated
characters in A Song of Ice andFire and I had to rack my brain.
But go first and I'll give youmine.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
For overrated.
I'm probably going to bedisappointing some people, but I
don't really mind, because thischaracter has like a cult and
it's just a cult of randos.
Sorry if this applies to youbut we're not on the same page
who.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Well, I picked somebody post or season seven
and eight.
I wrote Jon Snow.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Okay, so no overrated for overrated.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Oh no, I wasn't.
This isn't.
That's not a cult favorite,that's like a popular favorite.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Oh, who are you talking about?
Oh, this is for the whole, thewhole universe.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, like this person has a cult following in
the show and in real life.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Is she a woman?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
No, okay, okay.
The clue is in the is in thedescription cult following huh
damon no cult following.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Oh my gosh, I'm lost.
Go ahead, sorry it's stannis oh, stannis.
Oh, you know why I let me, letme um, defend these people
because, again, like I've talkedabout you, euron Greyjoy he is
also like Stannis, is not sodull, you know, in the book,
(15:14):
like we're rooting for Stannisand the way he went out in
season five was so anticlimacticand I think people are just you
know they're trying to buildthem up, and I get it.
I wouldn't be in the cult.
But I'm just saying that I getwhy people would have a cult.
I wouldn't be in it though.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
But I think that you get it with all the book stuff
that you read.
I, you know, just finished booktwo so I haven't seen like the
non-boring side of Stannis and Iunderstand like Stannis' black
and white like view on the world.
Like you know how he cutsRavus' fingers off because he
was a thief and even though,like the theft that he committed
saved him, like his savedStannis, like I understand
(15:59):
people that can respect that Iguess.
But he is not the mostinteresting character in Game of
thrones and george rr martin'suniverse.
Like it's just so overrated tothink that that he is like the,
the epitome of george'sintellect and creativity.
Like no, this is just a guythat would be a like, just a
normal policeman in our, in ourworld.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
like this is not the most you know amazing character,
sorry, and he's so overratedwell, I have another one, since
let me just I want to say, andthis is just for the show, I
want to say, season eight,cersei okay, it's just one
dimensional.
She has no nuance to her.
It's just the cersei that weknew from like seasons one
through four, one through five.
(16:40):
They're gone, like she was socunning and ruthless, and in
season eight it was just more ofa predict.
It's so predictable, it'ssomewhat shallow.
She's the queen for like oneseason and it just it wasn't a
satisfying arc.
That okay.
Why is she?
Why is she the queen that lastseason all she does is drink
wine and look out the window.
(17:02):
The same was same with johnsnow.
Yes, my queen.
Yes, my queen, yes, my queenlike he does nothing, he.
He brings nothing to the tableyeah in that last season.
So I I love john, but I'm justsaying show season eight, john
was overrated and annoying as f.
You have another overrated, I'msorry no, I was.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I was just going to say the reason that I don't
consider those characters inthose moments overrated is
because I don't think anyonelikes them at that point.
Everyone agrees that I thinkthat season 8 Cersei is boring,
and not herself, and it's notfun to watch all those seasons,
Even season 7.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
We could say Cersei.
I mean, the one moment Cerseihas in season seven that is so
ruthless and so peak Cersei iswhen she has the Sand Snakes,
the mother and one of thedaughters in a dungeon.
That is just pure evilness andthat's something that Cersei
would do.
But there's not that manymoments like that in the last
(18:03):
two seasons.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
As for Underrated, I have a deep cut Okay, Deep cut
from the show, just because Iremember mentioning that this
character was underrated on thepodcast and that's Yoren Yoren
from season one, the guy fromthe like that helps save Arya.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Oh, yes, yes, the Night Watchman.
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah, the Night Watchman.
When Ned Stark is beingbeheaded, he's the you know.
When he's being sentenced, orlike you know, going up on that
like deus thing, ned tells Joran, like take care of Arya, in a
way you know, and then heprotects Arya.
And if it wasn't for Joran thenArya would be dead.
So shout out to JoranUnderrated, deep cut character.
(18:42):
I'm going to pick him.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I have some big characters though.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Well, one character is not a big character.
I love Podrick.
Every scene he's in he's justso comforting for me he's kind
of like a.
Sam.
But Sam is a big character andjust Podrick is there and he's
so loyal, like he's so loyal toto tyrian and he's so loyal to
brianne.
You know, I would want him on myteam and he's you know, they
(19:13):
had a little funny moment withhim and the girls.
I thought it was funny.
But even though he's not thebest fighter, he'll, if he sees
somebody that he's with, likehe'll go and like try to save
them, like no matter what, evenif that means his life.
He's sacrificing himself andthat's somebody that you don't
see in this kind of world.
So that's my one minorcharacter, underrated, pick,
(19:36):
underrated, I could say Brienne,but I want to say the Hound.
The Hound was such an evilcharacter those first kind of
two seasons and I think thatseason three and four he's still
that killer, but he kind of hada little soft spot for the
Stark girls.
It's hard because we actuallygot a question from Grant, our
(19:56):
friend Movies and Shit, that'shis name on IG, but he asked a
question about the Hound.
But before we get to that, Ijust want that's.
He has a blend of like, like hegoes from brutal, cynical
killer to someone who's likequestioning his own purpose.
You know what I mean.
Like he goes from loyal dog toF the king F, this F that I'm
(20:23):
leaving, I'm going to savemyself but also then save him.
He does protect Arya, I mean hedid take her to the Eyrie and
they're like, no, nobody's here.
So the question from Grant heasked do you think Sandor
Clegane will return in the booksor is he dead, dead?
And two, if Sandor returns, doyou think you'll get a similar
(20:44):
redemption arc involving Aryaand Sansa, or no?
so book reader answer thisplease so, uh, arya, like in the
show, she leaves the hound fordead, like remember, he's saying
just kill me, take me out of mymisery.
She doesn't.
She's like you know what, justyou just die there.
So she kind of leaves and wethink as an audience for the
(21:06):
show, for people watching theshow, that he's dead and he kind
of shows up in what mid seasonsix, and he's part of that.
Not a cult, but a littlecommunity.
I would say uh, remember, inseason six he shows up and he's
part of that little community.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
I forgot the name of the guy.
Yeah, I remember.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
The guy from Deadwood , yeah, I think he will show up
again in the books and I thinkhe will probably make it a point
to figure out a way to havethat arc and protect these girls
, because right now in the book,brienne is trying to find Jaime
and the Hound.
Yeah, by orders of ladystoneheart, you know that's,
(21:47):
that's what she wants dead.
So, yeah, I, I agree.
So.
But what do you think about?
Like, I mean, you're gonna getto this in this book.
I think I think it's this bookthat he dies.
It's right after the redwedding or maybe the beginning
of the fourth book, but anyway,you'll get to.
You'll get to it pretty soon.
Do you think he'll come back?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
yeah, there's no way that george just would just
leave him.
The same way that, like, Ithink john is obviously going to
come back, even in the books,because that's where, like, the
books end right, like with johnbeing dead.
So, yeah, yeah, I think they'llbe back.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
They have to be yeah, let's go to our next question.
From anonymous underscore trtropes and got that you're tired
of.
And maybe he's saying in pastathe to the Dragon as well, and
maybe the next show that'scoming up.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Okay.
So when you sent me thisquestion earlier, I was the most
excited to answer this, or Iwas really excited about
answering this because Iimmediately knew the answer, but
I wish I took the time to atleast word it better before
recording or gathering mythoughts in one concise tropepe,
because it's not just somethingas simple as, like you know,
the tropes that you see ononline like enemy celebrities,
(22:53):
friends delivers and all that.
It's not that, it's just if Iwere to like say it in a certain
way, it's how women are kind ofused in a very exploitative
manner within the stories.
I think that in the show and inthe world, it's like not
necessary to make it a big partof the world, part of all the
stories.
Especially in the show, thereare so many scenes where we get,
(23:15):
you know, these women that worklike a certain type of job.
I don't want to say the word,but they work these jobs and
they're like their, theirpresence in the scene and what
they're doing isn't like weshouldn't see those things like.
I know that I'm like a modestperson or whatever, but like the
, the graphicness, thegraphicness I don't know the
word, but like the it's, it'stoo graphic and we don't need to
(23:37):
see it, especially because in alot of those scenes the women
are like not consenting or youknow, it's something that's
exploitative.
As I said, it's not.
It's it's not a comfortablething for me to to watch as a
reader.
I don't think that it's anecessary part of of the stories
or something I want to see onscreen.
So it's that trope and actually, if I would just sorry, I
(24:00):
finally remembered the word,like I'm just going to sum it up
into a very simple word.
It's like the abuse, the abuseof women in the stories.
You know, like we see it withsansan, you, it was very
unnecessary to see that onscreen and you know it wasn't
part of the original story.
It just breaks your heart.
And then you know there isCersei as well and there's
obviously Dany, which is nottrue to the book.
So I guess it's just like thisexploitative, abusive kind of
(24:23):
depiction of women.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I'm not saying that, that's a reflection of george or
anything, but it's just notnecessary.
I'm tired of seeing it.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
It's just like a repetitive pattern of like
trauma and victimization forthem, just like all over and
over, and then, like Iunderstand, because you'll have
a scene of bailish and ross yeahand then all of a sudden, like
four girls pop up and they'reyou know, they're jumping up and
down naked like, yeah, okay,what's the purpose of it's just
basically eye candy for guys,just to look yes, and it's like
it's abusive and it's likeexploitative, like I think, in
(25:01):
real life, to have to filmsomething like that and also
like within the world, likeobviously you can make the
excuses like, oh, but in theworld, but those it's like it's
a fantasy.
We don't need for those thingsto exist and have it be so
prevalent.
And you know, as we'vementioned before in the podcast,
like they change some things tomake it more abusive on the
show than it is in the book, sothose things are really not
(25:23):
necessary.
Very unfortunate, very, very, Iguess, frustrating, for for me
as a woman and as a fan of thisworld, that's a part of it as
well.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
House of the Dragon does do a good job of toning it
down.
We don't really see it as much.
We did see it in that first,first episode of you know.
All of a sudden they cut toDamon and he's just boom, boom,
boom, boom.
It's like okay, okay, okay,let's remind everybody, it's
Game of Thrones.
Sudden they cut to damon andhe's just boom, boom, boom, boom
.
It's like okay, okay, okay,let's remind everybody, it's
game of thrones, we have to seethat.
But after that we don't reallysee that that's true we see like
(25:56):
love, actually like love scenes.
But then I go, I just remember,we go back to season two and we
I'm thinking about alice in thefirst two episodes.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
It's like okay yeah, like I think that like the house
of the dragon stuff, you cankind of give some sort of
explanation for like even thealice and stuff.
I remember at one point I waslike, oh, but like they're
saying that this is like arelease for alice and you know
she's, this is her arc beinglike she's letting go of who she
is like okay, there's somethingthere, there's something of
(26:27):
substance.
It's not her being like abused.
You know what I mean.
Even when alicent is like, um,when she like spends the time
with viserys you know what Imean.
Like when they're like, youknow, like it's not an abusive
scene, like that's obviouslywhat she where her story was
going.
It's heartbreaking to see, butit's not abuse.
So I think, think that thereason why it's so much better
(26:49):
than House of Dragons isobviously because now it's not
acceptable and it's so it was abig criticism of Game of Thrones
but also because there are justmore women involved.
I think that all the abusivescenes or those uncomfortable
scenes that we got in Game ofThrones is, of course, a
reflection of how it's soprevalent in HBO and in American
television anyways, um, alsobecause they really didn't have
(27:09):
as much women working on theshow.
They weren't, as you know, likethey weren't a big part of it.
So I guess, for them, havingthese scenes they think adds
meaning to these women's arc, orlike the guys are, or even if
like, just, maybe, just like alittle bit, but mostly, as you
said, just like stuff for theguys, as you said, it's like an
easy pinpoint of trauma, do youknow, because they can't think
(27:31):
that a woman can experienceanything else other than, yeah,
this, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
So I, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna stop
talking if, if you, if you, ifyou let me so, so please you
answer the question no, I, thatwas one of my big issues um as
well and um, and I think I don'tthink we'll see that in the
night of the seven kingdoms no,I don't I don't.
I don't think we'll see that atall.
My other big trope that I wasgetting tired of is I wouldn't
(27:59):
be tired of if it went somewhere, and that's the power of like
prophecy again see house of thedragon, all with the song of ice
and fire, like okay that's notgoing anywhere, so it wasn't
really needed.
In house of the dragon it couldhave like maybe it's just
somebody saying it in passing,like in they're seeing, they're
(28:19):
seeing a book, oh, song of iceand fire.
Okay, that's it, we don't hearabout it again.
But but to make it so prevalentlike this is the reason why you
need to be, we need to rule,like okay, maybe if this was the
first show.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
And we're like, okay, that sounds really interesting,
azura High and this.
And I'm like, okay, I thoughtthe Prince that was promised
that sounds really interesting,so magical, but it doesn't go
anywhere.
And we're like, okay, I thoughtthe Prince that was promised
that sounds really interesting,so magical, but it doesn't go
anywhere.
And we're like, okay, andeverybody's just rolling their
eyes.
People who are hardcore Game ofThrones fans are like, yeah,
(28:59):
okay, whatever, what's next?
Like fine, it sounds good theway Paddy Constantine says it
and his way of saying it in theshow.
It sounds powerful're like it'sfor, not because it's who cares
?
Uh, so those were my biggestthings.
And, um, obviously, like theseason six, seven, eight, we
have the convenience of plot.
armor is so yeah prevalent and,like so many people, do not die.
(29:24):
It gets annoying, you know,like when they go beyond the
wall they should have all died.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
There's no way that they survive.
The one that you can connectHouse of the Dragon and Game of
Thrones is the prophecy thing,because we got sold a bill of
goods when it comes to Game ofThrones.
Not in the novels, it's stillgood, it's still there, but in
the show it's just like suckers,okay.
(29:53):
Next question is fromThatFilmDude.
He asked have your thoughtschanged on House of the Dragons,
season 2, or are they still thesame?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
I think that when we recorded with Shan and Louis
over on the fellowship of themic, like I had already said,
that some thoughts changed, likein those few weeks, I think, or
a couple of weeks or a week anda half or whatever after the
finale.
I forgot how long it was, but Iremember saying that you know,
some things did change and Iremember you being shocked
(30:23):
because I remember I think Isaid something like allison's
was suddenly became my highlightof the season, even though I
was like criticizing her.
I was criticizing her for weekson end, like for months.
So, um, my thoughts did changewith time, but I think that for
me to like give this a properanswer, I'd have to wait until
next year.
Like so far, I'd say no, likesince then, since the fellowship
of the mic recording, no, butmy thoughts didn't change that
(30:46):
much, like I still have the sameproblems with, I still have the
same like praises of it, but Idon't have anything that
different to say.
I think I can give a clearanswer or an updated answer, I
guess next year, before seasonthree premieres of House of the
Dragon.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
We're not going to do a revisit analyzing, because we
already did it.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
So what we can do is like watch the whole season and
kind of do a little mini recapof season two and in a future
episode next year when it comesout.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Yeah, we should.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Knock on wood.
No, I like I think I would haveto wait and rewatch the season.
Right off the top of my head,obviously, is the pacing issue,
which was completely 180 ofseason one, where we were like
it's too fast, it's too fast andI was like can we please leave
Harrenhal?
You know, it's just like getout of this place, you're
(31:42):
driving me nuts.
And the lack of action taken bycharacters was getting
frustrating and I gave it a passbecause I love the characters
and I love their performances.
But it was like, okay, you know, let's get this going, because
we can't see you beingfrustrated every episode and
(32:04):
then not do anything.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
You're the queen yeah , exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
You're not part of the small folk who's complaining
in the saloon oh these damnTargaryens, which is fine, but
you can't do nothing, and I getit.
You can complain every dayabout them, but when you're the
queen, you shouldn't becomplaining about the same thing
in every small council meeting.
Just do something.
(32:28):
When I call her the being apacifist, they made her into
that after making her sohell-bent on revenge in the end
of season one and the beginningof season two when she just said
I want Daemon Targaryen, You'relike okay, here we go, here we
go Daemon, Daemon.
Yeah, yeah, daemon, I'm sorry,what did I say?
Speaker 2 (32:50):
You said Damon twice, it's Amen, it's.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Damon Amen, sorry, not Damon.
Well, she wanted to kill Damonin the second episode.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Don't say that gets us started on Damon too.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
So I mean, that's the one thing that's probably going
to be the one thing I'll belooking for when I rewatch it
next year.
Those are our thoughts forseason two as of right now.
Here's a funny one.
I love movies.
Underscore 44.
It has a question for you,minwa.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Me Specifically.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yes, it says, Minwa.
Did you watch Potter over theholidays?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I didn't, I didn't, I wanted to, but I forgot, I
didn't.
I didn't, I wanted to, but Iforgot, I didn't.
No, I made a very unwisedecision.
This winter I re-watched loveactually for like the fifth time
and I kind of got boredwatching it because I was like I
memorized this movie, um, and Iwas just like I'm I committed
to watching it.
(33:45):
I'm halfway through and I can'tbelieve Sideshow is this movie.
I should have waited anotherfive years or something, cause I
, I memorized it.
So I wish I picked Harry Potter,but no, uh, there's always time
, Maybe.
Maybe now it's still cold here,so, or like as cold as it's
going to get for Bahrain.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
So um, I actually watched the Sorcerer of the
Stone I just put play.
They have all eight.
They have all eight in, I think, disney and then I think HBO
Max has them all.
I think there's like fivedifferent streaming services
that have all the Potter movies.
They're just everywhere.
(34:19):
It's like you can't escape them.
I had a good time, you know,always the one that's the fun,
not the best.
Happy Christmas, ron.
Happy Christmas Harry.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Know always the one.
It's the fun, not the best, buthappy christmas.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Happy christmas, harry, oh but no, I don't know
where's christmas?
Speaker 2 (34:35):
christmas is every, every day for me.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I can watch it anytime we actually got two
questions, uh, concerning ourthoughts on season seven and
eight of game of thrones andwe're going to put them together
and then kind of answer it andsay that uh, caden underscore
crippin asks if you all couldrewrite season seven and eight
of got.
How would change it?
Slash, end it?
(34:57):
Travel enthusiasts did anotherquestion, saying in a perfect
world, how would season eighthave ended?
I I love the questions, but Ithink we both agree that we want
to like bookmark thesequestions.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Because, like, we really want to like dive deep
into this, because, like we wantto make like a special, special
episode or two of just aboutwhat we would have done if we
were the writers and we wouldhave kicked out D&D Okay, we're
taking over, look for that inthe future.
And we would have kicked outD&D Okay, we're taking over,
look for that in the future.
So we're going to bookmarkthose two questions and we'll
definitely bring up your namesagain when we do Giving us
(35:35):
inspiration.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, and because you want to know.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yeah, this is a fun one.
Non-game of Thrones related.
What were your favorite movies?
Slash shows of 2024?
.
Okay, while you find your info,I'm going to just rattle off my
top 10.
I'm not going to tell you theranking, I'm just going to tell
you the 10 movies that are in mytop 10.
At the moment.
It's not official because Istill haven't seen Nosferatu and
(36:01):
the Brutalist and I haven'tseen Chalamet's new movie about
Bob Dylan.
I still want to see those first,but these are the 10 movies
that are in the top 10 as ofright now.
I was going to say it's the28th.
What's today's date?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
The 18th.
The 17th.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
I have Kneecap.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, I heard of it.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Small Things Like these.
The film with Cillian Murphy.
The film with uh, killianmurphy ghost light, which I just
watched, and just I was bawlinglike a little kid which one
ghost light?
Oh, I didn't see it.
I'll send it to you.
But it's just when aconstruction worker unexpectedly
joins a local theater'sproduction of romeo and juliet,
alongside his estranged teenagedaughter, the drama on stage
(36:44):
starts to mirror his own life itjust took it just took me by
surprise and I was just likeokay, I have sing sing yeah uh,
anora challengers doom.
part two the substance and amovie that I just watched the
other day, the count of montecristo, which is a french film,
(37:07):
and let me just tell you thatthat just movie movie just kind
of blew me away.
I couldn't believe how good itwas.
I couldn't believe how just theproduction of it I felt like I
was watching one of those epicsfrom the 60s or 70s and 80s.
Just so well done and it'salmost three hours long.
But you're like edge of yourseat, you're so into it.
(37:28):
You go back to that Roger ebertquote when he says no good
movie is too long and no badmovie is too short.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
it's true, um.
So some of my favorites of theyear.
Again, there are a lot that Ihaven't seen as well.
Um, counts of monte cristo islike a top priority for me now,
like the 2024 films that I'vemissed um, but the movies that I
love.
This year we're doing part two.
Wicked um sing, sing as well.
Dd.
I really enjoyed.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Oh that's in my top 20 okay, uh, dd is really nice.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
the wild robots, um, enora.
The substance, um, I thinkthat's like it, even the one
that you said Small Things Likethese.
Another movie I really want towatch is we Live in Time.
There's also like a Thai movieI heard really good things about
, which is how to Make MillionsBefore Grandma Dies.
That was really good as well.
(38:22):
Haven't seen the Brutalist I'ma bit behind but those are my
favorite movies of the year sofar.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
I'm a bit behind but those are my favorite movies of
the year so far.
So I'm going to tell you themovies that I have from 11 to 15
.
I'm going to tell you wherethey're ranked.
I'll say Wild Robot, a RealPain, the Order, strange Darling
and we Live in Time.
We Live in Time is like you'regoing to need a couple boxes of
tissues.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
That's fine.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
It's so good and I don't know, I don't understand
why this movie is not gettingmore play, because I thought it
was just beautiful performancesby them, both all right, really
quick for me.
Uh, best shows I watched in2024, the day of a jackal with,
uh, eddie redmayne.
I thought it just kind of blewme away.
I just binged it.
The Penguin, shogun, babyReindeer, the Bear, season 3,
(39:14):
fallout, arcane, season 2 wasbrilliant.
And lastly, I'm going to mentionAbbott Elementary, because my
daughter, I think in thebeginning of December, she's
like oh, I want to watch this.
So she kept seeing my TikTokclips, like really funny ones,
and I go oh, I want to watchthis.
So she kept seeing TikTok clips, really funny ones, and I go
well, I kind of watched thefirst three already and it
didn't really hook me.
(39:34):
So I go OK, I'll give itanother go.
Boom, we binged the whole thing.
We're up to date now with thenew season.
It's just so funny and soheartwarming and it's nice to
see these characters in thiskind of light.
And when I say these characters, of course I'm saying like
people of color, so you don'twill see teachers and like.
(39:56):
It's always like oh, in a movieor in a show, a drama, it's
because they're they're allhoodlums or they're gangs yeah
it's nice to see, uh, youngblack teachers, young women and
and getting it.
It's so good and it's so feelgood like I, I love seeing it,
like I.
There's so many references thatgoes back and forth and I and I
(40:18):
just I don't know I just why Ilove it.
And they kind of did thecrossover with it's always sunny
in philadelphia, which Ithought the crew from is always
sunny came into abbott, which Ithought the crew from as Always
Sunny came into Abbott okay, sothey couldn't really go super
hardcore like they do in AlwaysSunny, but it was just kind of
the way they did.
It was perfect because itwasn't too crass and it wasn't
(40:40):
too like they didn't make thecharacters in Always Sunny too
likeable.
They're still unlikable becausethey're they're still unlikable
because they're they're they'rereally bad people, but they're
funny in the show.
You ever watched the show Okay?
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
So anyway, those are my shows for 2024.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Okay, good, nice, nice picks.
I have a similar one, like onethat's on your list as well,
which is Shogun.
Obviously I'm broken, obviously.
Um, really really good andprobably like the best show of
the year.
Um, other than that, I thinknone of the other shows that I
watched premiered last year, butthey're what I watched last
year.
Um, so there's a k drama calledwelcome to sam dalry.
(41:19):
That's honestly one of the bestk dramas I've ever seen.
Like I'm the only one thatloves it this much, I think, but
I really really loved it.
Um, you know, a small town youknow so funny.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
I just watched the hot ones with the squid games
guys oh, yeah, yeah, yeah andone of the questions is what's
um, or maybe it was overrated,or what's your favorite k drama?
okay, and um, and then there wasone that said who would who
from these three K-pop bandssurvive Squid Game?
(41:53):
So it was just a funny questionand I think BTS and this other
two I don't know the other twogroups because my wife's, like I
said, the only one I know isthe BTS because that's Minwoo's
band.
But yeah, I recommend youwatching it.
It's kind of funny becausethey're so likable.
Yeah, those two.
I haven't watched season twoyet.
I heard it's just.
(42:14):
I know you said it, it was just.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
I did.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
I hated this, like I didn't hate it, so it wasn't
like was it just a repeat ofseason one.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
I'm still waiting for an arc to be completed, whereas
with season one you get like avery perfectly contained story
there.
Why do you need?
You know what I mean?
Like, like it's thematically itdoesn't serve anything new.
Acting wise not like nothingthat we haven't seen season one.
Story wise again nothing thatwe haven't seen season one.
There's no need to continue it.
It's just not necessary.
Season one was was just good onits own and it's had more to say
(42:47):
.
That's all I'll say, like whenseason three of Squid Game
premieres this year, even though, like, they are going to wrap
up the story, they're not goingto add anything of substance to
it.
I think Because everything thatwas of substance was just
perfectly communicated in seasonone.
So that was my thoughts on it.
But episode one is really good.
Season two, episode one Seasontwo, episode one just watch that
, don't watch the rest of seasontwo.
It's really really good.
(43:09):
Season two, episode one isbecause of the actor in it.
So if you know, you know you'llreally enjoy it.
So, yeah, bts will definitelywin Squid Game.
They just like on that topicthat you said.
But, yeah, I watched Squid Game,not all my favorites.
Welcome to Sam Del Rey is theK-drama that I mentioned.
I love it so much.
And then over the summer Icaught up on demon slayer and
(43:31):
jujutsu kaisen, two animes, um,and then like, just to continue
on this, um, like beats, I guess.
The only other shows that Ireally watched, I guess last
year, were also, like koreank-pop variety shows yeah so are.
Yeah, are you sure?
On disney plus, and then ranjinnanotour with 17 and, and then
that was my 2024.
I wasn't so heavy on TV showslast year.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Let me just mention one more show that we it's not a
2024 show, 2025.
It just came out last week forHBO, called the Pit, with Noah
Wiley.
He used to come out in ER 30years ago.
I can't believe 30 years ago.
Er was from like 94, I think itstarted and it's about he's a
doctor in the ER in Pittsburghand it takes the same formula as
(44:14):
24 with Kether Sutherland.
So, like, each episode of theseries is one hour of the day,
so it's 15 episodes in total.
You're about to see one shiftin this hospital, no, so the
first episode.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
See one shift in this hospital.
Oh.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
So the first episode is called 7 am and then the
second episode will be 8 am andso on and so forth, and I think
we watched the first episodelast night and I go, all this
stuff happened and we're still.
His day just started.
This is his first hour of theday and all this and just by the
time you watch all 15, you'relike that's just one of his days
(44:51):
of the year that he has to dealwith the chaos that is an ER in
a big city.
You go to New York City, LosAngeles, you're going to be
waiting 10, 12 hours, Unless youhave like a really
life-threatening injuries orillness that you have to be seen
right away.
If you're there because yourhead hurts or you bumped your
(45:11):
knee, they'll be like, okay,he's going to wait Because we
have to take care of this personwith a gunshot to his chest.
But yeah, I think the formulaworks better in this arena of ER
.
It's really well done, so Ireally recommend it, just based
off the first show.
Okay, back to the Q&A.
(45:32):
Actually, this is from Shanfrom Forager.
She actually asked about Season3, and I forgot to mention it
when we were talking about Gameof Thrones Season 3.
Will you be re-watching Season3 episodes for your discussion?
If so, can we do a watch party?
Yes, shan, you bring the beer,I'll bring the chips.
Meanwhile, we'll bring whatcookies?
(45:53):
I guess so uh, we would have tofigure that out logistically how
we can do that.
That'll be fun just to watchgame of thrones with friends.
Okay, this is a fun questionhere from jakelit.
As three glt characters you'dgo on a road trip with not, I'm
(46:14):
not talking about like an hour,I'm talking about like a real
road trip.
Like you have to go across thecountry in the us.
It's gonna take you three days.
You're stuck with these people.
Oh well, you know what I'msaying.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Like here you have to like actually drive I know,
yeah, so that's like unfamiliarterritory for me I mean, let me
put it into perspective.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Last friday I picked up my wife from her mother's and
it's two and a half hours away,so I drove over there two, two
hours and 40 minutes picked herup.
We stayed there for like anhour, then we drove back home
another two hours and 40 minutes.
So that's like five plus hoursin one day.
But easy, I mean, do that allthe time.
So so you're saying that yourlongest trip is two hours total,
(46:56):
like two hours to one place andtwo hours back, or like two,
like one hour and one hour?
Speaker 2 (47:01):
within the past couple of years, like the most
that I've done is like, uh, itwasn't in bahrain, it was
somewhere else.
But like from the airport tothe hotel, two hours by car,
like an hour and 45 minutes,that was the most.
And then again, when we leftthat country, so it was
something like that, that wasthe most that that I've done in
a and yeah, so road trips don'texist, kind of in Bahrain,
(47:21):
because a two hour drive we'llend up in Saudi.
It's in a whole other country.
It's not like you can't spendtwo hours in a car in Bahrain
unless there's traffic.
So if there's no trafficwhatsoever and it's just like a
straight highway, yeah, you'regoing to end up in Saudi, and
within Bahrain, it's justprobably going to be like maybe,
I guess, an hour and a half, Idon't know.
So I'm not a road trip person.
(47:44):
I get carsick.
So this question is likeunfamiliar territory for me.
But with everything that I said, I would say I'm just going to
go for a very safe car ride.
I'm going to pick Jon Snow,sansa Stark and Bran Stark, just
because I, as I said, I wouldget car sick.
So I would just need like tosit in a car with my AirPods in
(48:05):
or like my headphones in, listento music, look out the window,
have someone else drive, or likeI'll drive when it's my turn
and just have it be peaceful.
No one's fighting.
It's not going to be even fun.
I just need to get to mydestination.
Do you know what I mean?
Like everyone needs to be intheir own world.
And my destination?
Do you know what I mean?
Like everyone needs to be intheir own world, and then we
will get back to tocommunicating and talking once
we get to our destination,because otherwise just don't
(48:26):
talk to me.
I want to be in my own world ofmy music so that I don't get
carsick.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
So yeah, that's me so you just said that if you
should drive two hours, you'd bein another country.
So here's a little mind-blowingstat.
So I just googled from where Ilive now to where my mother
lives in new york city.
So it would take 36 hours todrive wow, from here to my mom's
(48:52):
house wow, have you ever donesomething like that?
no, the most driving I've doneis from San Francisco to like
somewhere in Arizona.
It was like 12, 13 hours.
And then I drove from Tucson toSan Antonio three times and
(49:12):
it's like 11 to 12 hours.
Those are the most I've driven.
But yeah, for me I'm going todo my road trip.
Obviously I'm going to haveTyrion.
He's obviously a greatconversationalist.
He's going to keep iteverything lighthearted, with
the humor and the storytellingand and, uh, if he's in a we're
in a difficult situation and Iget, uh stopped by a police, I
(49:34):
could tell, tyrian, can you talkour way out of this?
Uh.
My next person will be aria.
I think aria is like, has thesense of adventure, like she's
gonna wanna see everything andbe, you know, resourceful, and
she's tough and she could adaptto anything that we have, or she
, she, she'll be like happy tochange it's higher or something.
(49:56):
The third one, I think brianne.
I think she's the mostdependable person she's strong,
she's not gonna drink.
She'll be the one that probablydoes the most driving and maybe
she'll have a good time in a way, like she'll figure out a way
to have fun in this trip.
(50:16):
She's always serious and youknow she's.
She's lived a life of ridicule,or you know what I'm saying.
So for her to find some kind ofjoy in this trip will be kind
of fun.
We've come to our last questionand this is probably the
juiciest one we got and that'swhy I left it last and I sent
you this and I go.
This is a thinker here becauseit has so many parts.
(50:38):
So this last question comesfrom hasanha and his question is
if selmy were alive when tyriangot to marine, okay, would
danny have accepted tyrian intoher council?
I think so I don't think thatshe would.
He would become a close, closeadvisor because she would have
(50:58):
some no yeah sell me and tyriannever interact.
So I don't know like what'stheir dynamic, like what's their
uh relationship, because wenever, we don't know.
We know that sell me will alwaysbe her closest advisor because
he is a targaryen loyalist andhe was a king's guard for her
(51:19):
father and he knew her brother.
She can confide in some me witheverything.
He would probably say look,we're going to Westeros and
we're going to have to deal withthe Lannisters.
It would be nice to havesomebody who knows this family
in and out, so let's just havethem there.
We can ask some questions whenwe need to.
The question I want to ask,based off this question, is that
(51:41):
once Daenerys gets toDragonstone and she gets to the
painted table and she says, letus begin, okay, she has Selmy
there as her hand of the queen,not Tyrion how differently would
the war have taken shape?
Would she be sitting in theIron Throne?
I say yes, I will.
(52:02):
Will say yes, I'll let youanswer I think.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
So I don't know, thinking about it now, like you
know, his death was useless.
They killed him off for like noreason.
You know, I think it didn't.
It wasn't because he had beefwith dnd, like the actor, or
something like that.
So imagine if that like onesmall thing like, and we, like
it feels like a yes, you knowwhat I mean.
For us it feels like, yeah,like I think she, she, she would
(52:25):
, and then it makes you angrierbecause it's just because of dnd
again, you know what I meanlike seemingly small, like
change, I guess you know it'slike a butterfly effect, like,
oh, he, like the actor, had onelike argument, dnd or whatever.
So they killed him off.
And then that because he's alivein the books, right, yes, he's
not dead about how big of a rolehe's going to play, because
(53:01):
that'll give you a clear answer.
But to me it feels like yeah,yeah, like I guess she would
have.
But then what?
What do you think he would havetold her?
Like what do you think wouldhave been the direct difference
that he he had?
You know, like I think yes, butwhy do you think that it's a
yes for you?
Speaker 1 (53:15):
I think that, uh, with tyrian, he had the
political cunningness andfondness for playing the game of
their own, but I think, likeBerenstain was more
straightforward, honor boundapproach he would have.
He would have.
They probably would haveclashed, let's be honest.
Yeah, but it still would havebeen nice to have Tyrion there.
(53:37):
I think having Selmy therewould have been easier because
he could have given her a deeperunderstanding of the
consequences of certaindecisions which Tyrion tried to
do in the show.
When she burns the Tarlys andshe's like we shouldn't be doing
(53:57):
this, blah, blah, blah, blah.
She's like shut up, I'm, I'mgonna do what I want.
Having some way there wouldhave taken her aside, and I
think she would have steppedaside and just listened to
bernson more carefully and sayyou know what, maybe, maybe
you're right, because there is apoint and even in the show
there's a one point where hetakes her to the side and said
(54:17):
look, this is not, you don'twant to be, uh, remembered as as
a murderer, remember, she justwants to kill and she just she's
like okay, you know, and Ithink that he would have brought
that to to westeros and I thinkit would have been easier for
the nearest again um alliancesif she had selmy with her.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Oh yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
I think Seryn was so.
Selmy was such an honorable manin this Westeros that I think
he would have gotten somesupport right away, and I don't
think he's not going to send theUnsullied to Casterly Rock.
He probably said, look, we needto, let's take a chill pill.
Let's wait two weeks.
(55:03):
We're going to.
This is going to be our defense.
This is the strategy.
We're going to hit King'sLanding all full force.
We have the ships, we have theUnsullied, we have the Dothraki,
we have your three powerfuldragons Bottom line.
(55:24):
I think, sami, we criticizedtyrian for his lack of judgment
when it came to being the headof the queen.
He outsmarted himself like hewas trying to be too.
Uh, what am I trying to say?
He was trying to like thinkfive chest moves ahead without
looking at the, the move that heneeds to make first, like I don
, I don't know.
I'm trying to like figure outhow to say it right, because he
made too many blunders.
(55:44):
This is what I'm saying, yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
I mean, sometimes I feel like Tony's a bit harsh on
his favorite character.
You know, like Tony's a bitharsh on Tyrion for what you say
about him as Han, but honestly,like TV show Tyrion, tv show
Tyrion, tv show Tyrion.
But I think that, like you know, you're right on the fact that
Ser Barristan definitely wouldhave been a wiser presence.
(56:07):
You know, yeah, tyrion was kindof he was trying too hard,
basically, you know, and wasjust trying to do whatever he
could.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
So even the line with Olenna she says your hand.
He thinks he's very clever.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
I forgot that line.
Um, imagine he has her personthere and him with olen.
I think that would have been areally interesting dynamic to
see, because I think they wouldhave kind of been on the same
page.
They see danny as the dragon.
Speaker 1 (56:32):
You know, I don't think that tyrian ever really
saw her in that way, or if hedid, it wasn't in a good way
whereas I think that's yeah,because you think about it like
sami would have had her bestinterest at heart, which is get
the iron throne, tyrian is likehow do I screw my family?
Speaker 2 (56:52):
yeah I guess.
So yeah, like I want to.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
I want to help, I want to help the nearest, but
let me.
Yeah, he was so focused ongetting revenge on Cersei, not
on his brother, but I think thatwas the leading cause for him.
Oh, yes, let's do Casterly Rock, but this is one of those
what-if questions that I mean wecould take an hour thinking
about, because you know Selmyinteracting with Jon Snow.
(57:16):
You know Selmy respected NedStark so much as an honorable
man and I think I that respectwould have been mutual from Jon
to Selmy and they could probablywork together, but I don't see
Selmy going.
Yes, let's go up beyond the wallno he would be like nah, we're
good, we're good, we don't needto convince this queen of
(57:37):
anything.
She, we have the queen righthere yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (57:43):
Oh my gosh, that's such a good point actually,
because you know, when you saidthat person and like we don't
need to convince the queen, wehave the queen right here, I
like, oh, that makes me angrierabout season eight, but like
that's what they should havedone and that's what person
would have done, and I guess ifyou had that kind of person
saying that and being that, thenlike cersei's power would just
(58:04):
like go away in an instancebecause danny would have like
helped them.
They would defeat the whitewalkers.
Everything taken care of that.
And she has her dragons.
She has no ice dragons, so it'snot like that they lose the
dragons to the white walkers andeverything.
Speaker 1 (58:17):
That's what happened under sabarasa baris and I
decided, and then um, exactlybecause obviously it would have
been more logical, I guess theywouldn't have a nice dragon,
they wouldn't have a way tocross the wall yeah, and then
what does?
Speaker 2 (58:30):
what does cersei have ?
And then you know what I mean.
Like what?
The golden company they like,they can't take those people out
she has so.
Speaker 1 (58:38):
And once the south sword see the dragons, they
would have been pooping in theirpants, they would have run away
but like whatever, we don'thave loyalty to you yeah,
exactly so.
Speaker 2 (58:47):
Oh, that just made me so much angrier because, if you
think about it, it's just likeone character that could have
caused all this difference.
Right, like I like I'm gettingI don't know if I'm just
rambling because I'm like tiredbut I'm getting angrier and
angrier about this because ofthis question.
It's like it's a very goodquestion, but it's making me
angry about season eight again,and we should stop ourselves
when we're talking about seasoneight, because we're going to
(59:09):
get there, and we always stopourselves because otherwise we
won't stop.
Speaker 1 (59:14):
Sorry, we're going to have to rewrite our own little
script for season seven andeight.
But write our own little scriptfor season seven and eight and,
but we can't have, we can'thave.
So me we can't have, becausehe's he's dead in season five,
so we have to figure somethingout he comes back from the dead.
Speaker 2 (59:28):
Because magic, because magic yes, all right.
Speaker 1 (59:34):
Well, that's going to be all for our first episode of
2025 and our first episode ofseason three of dancing with
dragons, and our next episodewe're going to tackle the night
of the seven kingdoms.
We'll do a little preview onthe show, tell you about the
actors, where they've been, tellyou about the directors,
writers.
I know that we're thinkingsummer, probably august, but
(59:58):
that's going to be a fun show.
We won't spoil the show for youor it's the season, so that'll
be fun.
Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Yes, tony and I are very excited to talk about the
97 kingdoms.
I know something that so manyof you are looking forward to.
If you have any questions aboutthat as well, let us know
anything specific you want us totalk about.
We will be rereading the firststory so what season one is
about before we record.
So we're going to come allprepared for you guys for our
next episode and, as I said, ifyou have anything you want us to
(01:00:25):
address specifically, be sureto just let us know.
On instagram, our at is atdancing with underscore dragons
and, of course, if you're a fanof the podcast, be sure to add,
listen and download our episodeson your preferred listening
platforms and give us a rating,interview or comment as well, if
you get the chance.
Thank you guys.
So much for listening.
We'll see you on the next one.
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