Game of Thrones: S3 | EP10 "Mhysa" - Dancing with Dragons

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello and welcome to Dancing with Dragons, your go-to
podcast for everything relatedto Game of Thrones, house of the
Dragon and the rest of GeorgeRR Martin's A Song of Ice and
Fire universe.
My name is Minna and I'm herewith my co-host, tony, as always
, and this marks the end of ourGame of Thrones Season 3
coverage, as today we'll bediscussing the 10th episode of a
season titled Maisa.
This episode follows thetragedy that is the Red Wedding,

(00:30):
picking up where the lastepisode left off and sees the
direct aftermath of the event Inother parts of the realm.
Bran and company travel beyondthe Wall, sam returns to Castle
Black, jon says goodbye toYgritte, jaime returns to King's
Landing and the Night's Watchasks for help from Stannis.
We have so many characters andplotlines to talk about, but
before we dive into the episode,we want to take a moment to

(00:52):
thank you all for the love wereceived on our last episode on
the Red Wedding.
We're surprised by thereception pun intended as it's
got, but I guess it was along-awaited episode, since it's
considered one of the biggest,if not the biggest, events in
the entire show.
So thank you, guys so much, andI hope you're here to listen to
our coverage of the finale andlet's discuss it.
As I said, the episode istitled mysa, it's premiered on

(01:13):
june 9th 2013 on hbo and it waswritten by david benioff and db
weiss and directed by davidnutter, who directed the most
episodes of game of thrones,with a total of nine episodes
across the series, including theprevious Red Wedding episode.
And let's start there.
Let's start at the Red Wedding,the direct aftermath.
Let's start with Arya.
I really want to talk about it,but I feel like I just rambled
on for a bit too much just atthe beginning of this episode,

(01:35):
so I'll pass the mic to you,tony.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
How are you and what do you think of Arya's scenes in
this episode?
Let's start with her I doingwell, this was a hard watch,
obviously not harder than thered wedding.
Let's go back to the, to thepodcast here.
Uh, just the aftermath of rob'sdeath or execution or whatever
you want to say horrible ending,and catlin's, and I think in in
that moment.
This doesn't cry, doesn'tscream, doesn't't faint, and
it's the moment the part of herchildhood and everything her

(02:08):
hopes and of reuniting with herfamily is now done.
A part of her died as well.
That's not Arya Stark anymore.
No family, no home.
And now what is she going to do?
If you're watching and readingfor the first time, you're
thinking okay what are we goingto do with Arya?

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Yeah, I think I saw an interesting comment which I
was actually going to bring upat the end of the episode rather
than now, but it says somethinglike this episode kind of lays
the foundation for arepositioning of all the
characters.
You know, like they're all kindof being moved slightly.
Rather than their plot linemoving forward in that direction
, it's moving in anotherdirection, and that's what you

(02:47):
can see with aria right then andthere, as you said, like when
she sees rob's body in front ofher with gray one detached, like
that it's like the end of her,the end of life as she knew it,
because she we saw it, I think,in the last episode right like
she had hope that things wouldgo back to the way that it was,
and I think that's somethingthat all the Starks kind of had.
But you see, like all that hopekind of just die immediately

(03:10):
with Arya and it is thebeginning of a new chapter for
her.
The look in her eyes is verysimilar to the one that we see
Sansa have in this episode aswell when she hears of the Red
Wedding, and it's kind of like amourning, look like they're
mourning the, the death of.
You know their past and theirlife and their childhood and
their innocence, but at the sametime I think that, um, you can

(03:33):
see hopelessness in both oftheir eyes as well.
It's also what you see in cat'seyes when um rob is killed in
front of her at the end.
It's like where the lastepisode kind of just ended, you
know what I mean.
Right before Catelyn dies.
You see her.
I think that kind of one of thelast images you see of the Red
Wedding is Catelyn'shopelessness and her losing her

(03:58):
will to live.
You know she like kills thefray girl and then she just
drops the knife to the ground.
And then I think that emotionthat we see in C caitlin, the
last image that we get of her,is then transferred to both of
her daughters in this episode,because it's not fully in either
daughter, because they both end, you know they end up living,
uh, and I think that if it wasfully transferred that
hopelessness to one daughterthan me, it would have went to a

(04:20):
more drastic uh conclusion forlike a more drastic plot line
for either of those characters.
But I think that you see inboth of her daughters in this
episode them kind of not justmourning but losing any hope,
any will to live, and I thinkthat that was something directly
transferred from Catelyn in thelast episode, if that makes
sense.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Like it's brutal, it's very brutal and I noticed
that in this scene is that itreminds me, it took me back to
when Ned was executed at theSept of Baelor, where Joran
protected and shielded Arya fromseeing her dad executed.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
But the Hound's like okay, just go ahead and see your
brother, Anybody else willprobably cover Arya's eyes and
not let her see that.
Yeah, the Hound's like you needto see the horrors of the war
eyes and not let her see that?

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, it sounds like you need to see the horrors of
the war.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, you need to see that.
You need to soak that in tomake you a killer.
Yeah.
But let's go from Arya and let'sgo to the man responsible, or
the men responsible for thisother than Tywin, and it's
Walder and uh ruse bolton, andit's funny that they're just
kind of walder is more havingfun with it and ruse is more

(05:32):
he's more.
Business is okay.
I did this for a businessreason.
That walder did it because he'sbeen chastised and made fun of
his whole life like he's he's,he's been uh relegated to yeah,
he's a lord of a, of a noblehouse, but they consider him
like the stephead loser yeah,he's, he's a loser.

(05:54):
if you ranked all the houses,he's house free will always be
probably at the bottom of thebarrel, and he's just laughing.
Oh, they always treated me.
All All these other Lords neverrespected me Ned Stark and
Hostel and look at them now.
I killed their boys and I havetheir, his son, here as a
prisoner.
I found it funny that this weekand treasonous and cowardly man

(06:17):
is all of a sudden he's bravebecause now he has the mighty
Taiwan backing him and he can dowhatever he wants, and now he's
the lord of river run and blah,blah, blah blah, but in ruse,
talking with him, we get tofinally meet or not meet, but
finally know who the name ofdion's torturer was, because if

(06:37):
you're watching for the firsttime, you don't know that that
is his bastard son.
I'm just gonna go through thisbecause I want to get to king's
landing and get through theunseen, because again, this,
these were one of the hardscenes to watch.
It's like, okay, we gotta watchit.
This wasn't funny, but you haveramsey eating a sausage and go
oh, wait, wait, wait, that's notyou know what I mean.

(06:59):
Like it's yeah yeah, but it's sosadistic.
And then they go straight toBailon Greyjoy, who we haven't
seen in a while maybe season 2in Yara.
And then he gets this letterfrom quote Ramsey and you know
it's funny because you hate theGreyjoys and you hate and you

(07:22):
hate Bailon, and it's just kindof like Bailon's hate bail on,
and it's just kind of like bailon's reaction is not surprising.
It's, it's cold, there's nogrief for his son, there's no,
it's just dismissal, like well,yara's, like this is your son,
he goes.
Well, he's not a man anymoreyeah you know, like he's kind of
making a joke and at the sametime yara has that, at least she

(07:44):
has the.
You know she's kind ofcounterweight.
Uh, she has, she's theemotional counterweight, like
she's pissed, she's heartbrokendeep down.
That is her brother and shefinds a way like she's defying
her father, like her father's,like who cares me, I'm not going
to give up all this land that Itook.
And we see the scene of her,you know, gathering the ships

(08:08):
and all that.
So in that moment Yara'scharacter goes okay, she's going
to tilt to a character we mightlike in the future that she has
some kind of.
Not so much, but it's tilting alittle bit.
You got to give her some credit.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, I mean, mean I can't argue with that.
I honestly didn't make a lot ofnotes surrounding any of the
great choices episode other thanthat, like it's a nice, it's a
new thread to follow.
Do you know what I mean?
Like it's not.
It's been a while, I think,since we had a new storyline
start.
You know it's been the sameplayers over and over again,
like, I think, since thebeginning of the show.
So now it's kind of like oh,we're going to follow this

(08:46):
semi-new character on a newquest.
Basically you know what I mean.
So it's like a new plotlineadded to the show which I mean
would be interesting andexciting, especially if this is
your first watch.
But before we move on, I knowyou're in a rush to get to.
Oh, sorry, yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
I have one thing to say it also gives us another
woman who is a badass.
She can battle and she's goingto lead forces and soldiers to
get her brother.
So I mean, that's a cool littlething and there's nothing to
like.
These men who are following her.
They're not like, oh, we got tofollow this.
No, they follow her becausethey are loyal to her.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
I mean, though I don't like the Gators, I
honestly can't argue with whatyou're saying.
Obviously it's like a fact andit is like a good.
It's a good thing ultimately,you know to say her inclusion,
her being supported for thatreason because people believe in
her and she's a good warriorand all of that, rather than
just being her right or anythinglike that.
You know what I mean.
Like it's, it's a good, uhaddition.

(09:43):
Like I can't uh argue that.
I know you're in a rush to getto the king's landing uh part
and I am excited to move on andI want to go into into those
scenes as well.
But at the same time I do wantto make a couple of notes about
the the walder fray scene, um,which is that when they're
talking, uh, rosen and walder,they're like they were like, oh,

(10:04):
but the black fish escaped, andwhen they said that it's made
me so annoyed because that'sended up going nowhere, because
in that episode it gives us hopeduring our first watch and
we're like, oh, maybe he'll,he'll find Arya, and then
they'll, they'll plot.
You know, like if this is yourfirst time watching the show and
you didn't read the books andeverything, you would assume
that that would go somewherereally, really interesting.

(10:25):
That he would.
You know, he had a goodintroduction, he seemed like a
good warrior, like this oh coolcharacter, and that just goes
nowhere.
So listen, would we know thatthat would be a very
underwhelming thread to follow.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
I don't think we see him till season six when Jamie
goes to treat with him.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
And you said about Ruth that he was kind of very
business about it and he was soemotionless, while they're
talking about like he wasn'tsmug, the way Walder Frey was,
and remind me of how Ruth wasdescribed in the books, where
it's like he's so cold to thepoint where he sends shivers
down your spine.
So it's interesting becauseit's like in the books, rusev
gives off the vibe that he'smore of like a, like a cold

(11:07):
villain, if that makes sense,like a cold villain from a
Disney movie or something, notthat, it's like a Disney
universe.
You know what I'm talking aboutlike the kind of shivers in his
mind because he's so robotic andhe could be not human or
whatever.
And then in this, a veryemotionless man that's like okay
, our business is done and I'mgoing to report to Taiwan.
It's a different kind ofunsettling.

(11:28):
I just wanted to make a note onthat that there is a difference
in how they're portrayed in theshow and in the books.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Okay, let's go south to King's Landing.
We start with a pleasant scene,kind of like a palate cleanser
Tyrion and sansa walking andshay behind peaceful interaction
.
It's very uh.
They're talking about howtyrian is muttering names of

(11:56):
these two lords that he wants toget back at and sansa's oh you,
you have a list like to killthem, like a kill list.
And he's like what do you think?
I am Joffrey?
And there's a cute banterbetween them over a prank that
Arya used to do to Sansa thatshe would put poop in her
mattress or whatever.
But I think it is an importantscene because it humanizes both

(12:18):
of them and it kind of remindsus that they're trying to
survive this circumstances thatthey were put into Like she, she
, she reminded me of you in thisscene because she didn't want
to say a bad word, yeah, oh yeah.
And the way he looks at Shay,like Lady Sansa, like he's being

(12:41):
so playful with her and socareful and so respectful
towards her.
That it's it.
I like the scene a lot.
It kind of lulls the audienceright, because then we're gonna
get this emotional.
You know, hammer dropped on ourhead.
Did you notice the two girls?

Speaker 1 (12:55):
and podrick walks by because, oh, that's him yeah,
and I knew you were gonna talkabout.
I swear to you, when I saw thatepisode of like tony's gonna
make a comment, I forgot.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
I forgot about that.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
I because yeah, anyway well, yeah, but sansa, I
don't think that she didn't wantto say a bad word.
I think the joke was that shedidn't know what the bad word
was I think, she thought thatshe was saying that word but she
didn't.
She like she was like that'sthis and that's why tyrian was
like trying to laugh.
But but yeah, I did really likethat scene because they said it

(13:25):
humanizes them and the way thatI described it from my notes.
I was saying it's them talkingabout and bonding over the fact
that both of them are beinghated and outside it's like they
found common ground you knowyeah yeah, Though like a bomb
was going to be dropped on themvery soon, Like you see.
You see that they were bothtrying to make the best out of
it and they were actuallybonding though not romantically,

(13:46):
they did, you know.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
They found something to talk about which is and it
showed that maybe hypotheticallyif none of this would have
happened, like if they were tohave stayed married in King's
Landing- yeah.
They would have.
Obviously he would have beenwith other women, with Shay and
all that, but they probablywould have had dinner every day.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
And talk.
I remember when we did actuallybefore I put the audio when we
had our season two finale recapor look back we did a scene with
Joffrey when he was actingkingly towards Margaery and the
Tyrells, and we add the audio tothe episode and we paused it.
And that was the first time wepaused audio to talk about the

(14:28):
scene and we're going to do thatagain, so it's kind of a finale
thing that we do.
All right, before I put theaudio, let me just set up the
scene.
It's a small council meeting.
Tyrion is going to find outabout Robb and Catelyn's death
and of course, joffrey has tosay something.
He wants walter frey to sendrob's head so he can serve it to
sansa.
And everybody's like haha,that's funny joke.

(14:49):
Yeah, right, it's a joke, right.
And no, he's like serious.
He wants to like yeah, have herhead, rob's head there.
And then obviously, uh,tyrian's like she's no longer
yours to torment.
He says everybody's mind's atorment and they go back and
forth and then we come to thepart where Tywin jumps into the
conversation.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
I am the king, I will punish you.
Any man who must say I am theking is no true king.
I'll make sure you understandthat when I've won your war for
you, my father won the real war.
He killed Prince Rhaegar.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
He took the crown while you hid under Casterly
Rock Joffrey's saying my fatherwon the real war.
It's kind of an ironic truthbecause, you know, technically
his father wasn't his father,you know, and he's saying that
he hid under costly rock and,however, joffrey's real father,
jamie, did in fact play a majorrole killing of the mad king.

(15:58):
But this scene is so greatbecause once he says that, you
hear the music build up andeverybody's face goes from like
it's kind of a dread becausethey know what just happened.
They know that if, if it wasanyone else other than his
grandson, slash king, this hewould have been.
I don't know what would happento him yeah the most powerful

(16:20):
performance was peter dinklage,because it's silent yet very
expressive, and he has thissubtle shift of his eyes.
He's looking at joffrey andthen he just shifts his eyes to
look at his father to see hisreaction to it.
Cersei is like, so scared ofwhat's going to happen to him.

(16:42):
It's a great moment because ittells you a lot, like it tells
you that titles don't meannothing without power and
taiwan's authority isn't loud.
He's.
He's never gonna say I am handof the king and you listen.
Yeah, you'll never say that.
He's quiet, he's calculated andhe rules because he understands
how to rule.
Joffrey may wear a crown, butin that moment he's a child in a

(17:07):
room with adults who know howto play the game.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
And for him to be sent to his room like a child.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
That's exactly what they're sending a kid to his
room.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
You know it's fantastic and you know Charles
Dance is so amazing and hedelivers that he just sits there
and looks at him like verycalmly, you know, go to your
room, go to your room.
Well, I do the real work in youknow, making sure your kingdom
is being run correctly.

(17:40):
But also, like you know, jackCleason is so good, too, playing
that he knows how to play thattantrum perfectly.
He's like, he's like a sport.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Oh yeah, oh yeah yeah , like when I saw him, I was
literally like reminded ofmoments where I saw like actual
children in real life acting out.
You know, I was like, oh my god.
This reminds me of that momentwhen, you know, I saw this kid
acting in this certain way.
It was a great performance fromfrom Jack Leeson.
I have to give him credit thereas well, not just the others in
the room.
But, yeah, you said somethingabout like a title doesn't mean

(18:16):
anything and I think that that'sso true because I think the
scene is a great representationof one of those scenes we always
talk about them in Game ofThrones where every now and then
you'd have a moment in the showwhere there's a lot that's
unsaid, but everything that'sunsaid is so clear.
If you know these charactersand you know their power like

(18:36):
here, everyone knows in theaudience and in that room that
Tywin is the most powerful.
Like when Joffrey says what hesays, you can sense that he's
like trying to convince himselfthat he's not afraid.
He's trying to be like yeah, I'mbrave enough to say this, but
he's not.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
And then when he said you know you hid under a castle
rock, there was a split secondof him saying, oh shit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
But then he goes like oh yeah, I said it yeah, yeah,
like, let me pretend that I havethe confidence to say this like
and that's yes, I convincedhimself.
Like, yes, I am the king.
I can say this.
He is beneath me.
Like you can, you can see it inhis face.
So you can get that fromjoffrey, you can get that
everything that we said abouttime, and from tywin and as well

(19:23):
as everyone else in the room,the way that they kind of
smartest thing to to quiet downeven Cersei, you know, because
she is not going to even defendher son there.
Like she, she knows that that'snot the smart thing to do and
she doesn't want to defend himeither.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
So Cersei to her credit.
I guess she tries to defuse'sat the beginning she's like oh,
stop, stop.
You know talking about Sansaand and serving Rob's head to
her at the wedding oh no, it'sjust a joke.
And and talking about you know,tyrion and she, she knows that
Joffrey is so out of his depthbut she can't turn on him

(20:01):
publicly.
So she's like okay, okay, okay.
So once he said go to your room, basically she gets like okay,
okay, okay.
So once he said go to your room, basically she gets up quickly
and go okay, let's go.
You know, we have so much to bejoyful for a wedding and
Joffrey's like I couldn't givetwo craps about a wedding, you
know.
And then, to top it all off,you know, actually, you know

(20:22):
what?
Let's just finish this, becauseI want to hear it one more time
.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
The king is tired.
See him to his chambers.
Come along, I'm not tired.
We have so much to celebrate, awedding to plan.
You must rest, grand maester.
Perhaps some essence ofnightshade to help him sleep?
I'm not tired come.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
What's so great about Charles Dance or Tywin is that
when he's looking at Joffrey hehas that steel look and he
doesn't even blink yeah, hedoesn't, and it's like it's not
the first time we've seen tywinlike this, where it's like he's
sending almost like a deaththreat you know what I mean to

(21:24):
someone that's just with hiseyes it's, it's so good and to
say that he's tired is to saylike obviously you're saying
this foolish things because youdon't know what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
You're tired, you need to go to bed.
So this scene and not ends.
But once everybody leaves,tywin tells tyrian to stay and
says not, you stay.
And it's kind of reminds you ofthe scene in the season one
finale, when they're in theriverlands that they're making
plans and he tells tyrian not toleave and makes him the hand of

(21:55):
the king and tyrian says youjust sent the most powerful man
in Westeros to bed withoutsupper.
Tywin replies you're a fool ifyou believe he's the most
powerful man in Westeros.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah, the unsaid, it's finally being said.
And directly after that Tyrionsays a treasonous statement
Joffrey is king.
I love that moment becauseTyrion is being so sarcastic,
obviously, about it, and he'smaking light of the tense
situation that just happened,you know, as he always does,
trying to diffuse the tension,joking around and that's Tyrion.
But at the same time I thinkthat that conversation is

(22:31):
probably the most lightheartedconversation Tyrion and Tywin
ever had Tyrion and Tywin everhad, Because Tywin is still dead
serious, don't get me wrong.
But for the first time he'salmost like humoring Tyrion and
Tyrion's sarcasm, Like he'sallowing the joke to exist.
He's not dismissing it.
He knows that Tyrion's sarcasm,I guess, works in this
situation and it did diffuse thetension a bit.
But you know, of course, itbeing Game of Thrones, it being

(22:53):
Tyrion and Tywin, it all changesand then it turns into, I think
, one of their toughestconversations we've seen.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Tyrion is the only one brave enough to say you have
something to do with this.
Obviously, walder Frey is notsmart enough or a courageous man
to do this without anyassurances from somebody.
And Tywin's like yeah, that wasme.
Yeah, like yeah, that was me,yeah.

(23:23):
The question is posed why is itmore noble to kill 10 000 men
on in the battlefield ratherthan 12 at dinner and and and?
At that moment I think tyrianis kind of disturbed because he
could see what his father hasdone and he understands.
He understands the logic right,but unlike tywin, he values
human life, he honors it and hewould never do anything like
that.
You know, this question fromtaiwan is isn't just rhetorical,

(23:45):
like it's kind of a statementfor him, like he, in his eyes,
power isn't about fairness orethics, it's about hard choices
that others won't, I guess,stomach like yeah, or like be
willing to do uh yeah, so hedoesn't care about.
Oh, I have to uh respect guests.
What is it?

(24:06):
Guest rights?

Speaker 1 (24:07):
yeah, I guess right yeah in in one swoop.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
I mean technically, I mean, like I said, logically,
it makes so much sense.
Okay, I don't have to.
None of my men die I, I didn'tlose any resources.
I had somebody, another weasel,do my bidding and I just took
out the northern army.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
I took out one of these kings who was trying to
dethrone me, not my stupidgrandson I guess you kind of
help answer tyrian's or tywin'squestion, like yeah, in a more
logical way, in a cold way.
If you think about it, yes,killing or getting rid of a
dozen people of your enemies atdinner is maybe like less

(24:47):
bloodshed than a thousand or tenthousand men in battle, but at
the same time, like by doingthat you are also like breaking
the like something that isrespected in their tradition and
their culture.
Which is the guest?
Right, I can say this and it'sgoing to kind of be considered a
moot point, but it damages hisreputation.
But at the same time, tywin isTywin and nobody's going to mess

(25:10):
with Tywin as long as he'salive.
Like his reputation can't be,like he's gotten out unscathed
you know what I mean.
Like no matter what he did hewas never like um no, but I
think there's like a villain ifthat makes sense, I think to the
public he had nothing to dowith it.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
It was all walter frey.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Walter frey gets all the credit oh, it's true, that's
true he's just, he justhappened that's why he's happy
giving walter frey the creditsas well.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
It's a happy accident that, oh, look at this, I just
somebody, just uh removed aproblem I was having and I
didn't have to do anything it'salso like it goes back to then
honor right, like why did ned doeverything that he did?

Speaker 1 (25:48):
why do we see the starks operating a certain way
instead of scheming and doingthis?
And that's because they havethat, that code of honor within
them.
Someone with an honorable manwould never do what tywin did.
He would never just use someoneelse to to do their bidding and
do something as as horrible asthat's like you know.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
So it just has its honor.
I just thought of something solike in season seven, when they
have that um summit, and like adragon stone and the dragon pit,
you know, with cersei andeverybody yeah uh, tywin would
have just had them all killedsomehow oh yeah yeah yeah um,

(26:29):
let's stick with the scenebecause it's, it's brutal, it's
heartbreaking.
Again, it's feels like everytime tywin and tyrian are
together, taiwan figures out away to dismiss tyrian or just
break his soul yeah and this oneit was kind of like tyrian is
just saying what have you everdone anything that wasn't in the

(26:50):
benefit of you?
Oh yeah he's just like the dayyou were born.
I wanted to carry you out intothe water and let the waves wash
you away.
I mean, can you imagine hearingthat?

Speaker 1 (27:03):
It's horrible.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
The line isn't just cruel, it's like a freaking
missile to the heart to Tyrion'sexistence.
He plainly is admitting that henever saw Tyrion as a son, only
as a um you said it before toolike a shameful burden that he
he was forced to keep Tyrionbecause he can't get rid of his

(27:25):
own son like I can't.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
I can't prove that you're not mine, so I'm gonna
have to force myself to keep youaround yeah, and I actually
kind of want to make a note onthe scene as well, because
because before that he says aline that I think stuck with me
a lot.
He tells Tyrion the house thatputs family first will always
defeat the house that puts thewhims and wishes of its sons and
daughters first.

(27:47):
A good man does everything inhis power to better his family's
position, regardless of his ownselfish desires.
And I can't really put a fingeron why that line really stuck
with me.
I think it's because, kind oflike in my part of the world a
lot of people do maybe stillthink that way, like it's very
different than Western culture.
So I think that it might likein a way, weirdly resonate with

(28:08):
a lot of people in our part ofthe world but at the same time
acts like it's not his ownselfish desires, but it's
everything that he did.
Even saving Tyrion, I guess, isstill I don't know.
I would say it's still for himrather than the family, because
I don't know, I can't see it inme that Tywin was like I'm going

(28:30):
to save him because he's aLannister.
I could see Tywin getting ridof Tyrion, but maybe, I don't
know, is it like some hunch thathe had.
That told him kind of to savehis one son because the other
one's going to be in the king'sgarden, everything.
I don't know yeah but I I it'snot a selfless decision that he

(28:51):
made to save tyrian.
I don't, I don't, don't.
I can't see myself saying thatthat was a selfless decision.
It's a.
It's the.
It's actually like I was gonnawas a selfless decision.
It's a.
It's the.
It's actually like I was gonnaspeak arabic, I was gonna say
like it's the basic, obviousthing to do.
Like the fact that you evereven considered it shows that
you know you're not a selflessperson, because it's basic human

(29:13):
decency yeah you know it's yourson, what you're gonna do.
Just because, like he looksdifferent, you're gonna like
it's.
Oh, it's your son.
What's your going to do?
Just because he looks different, you're going to Like, oh, it's
a big selfless thing, you didthat, you didn't kid him.
No, it's not selfless.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
It's normal.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
I will say that there's a couple more scenes in
King's Landing, one that atfirst I thought was unnecessary
and kind of weird, and then Ithought about it a little more
necessary and kind of weird andthen I thought about a little
more ago I guess.
I guess it seems small and kindof stopped the flow of the
episode but it kind of helpedforeshadow, you know, tyrian and

(29:47):
, uh, shay and varus is thescene I'm talking about, shay
and varus, which is kind ofweird, right.
So we talked about thebeginning of the, our coverage
of season three, of how we feltabout Shay and Sansa, like is
she really helping her out?
Does she really have her bestinterests?
And we were like, well, maybe,and you're like, well, I don't
know, I have to see.
And all of a sudden you go fromthat to I love that girl, I

(30:11):
will kill for her.
Yeah.
Like really, maybe.
I say maybe because I know deepdown she knows that Sansa has
no interest in Tyrion, yeah, andshe realizes that Tyrion has no
interest in her, so I think sheprobably has made peace with
that.
Any thoughts on that scene?

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, I did, like is this what you're trying to say?
So, like, I looked at the scenebeing like I don't know what to
make of Shay first of all,which is like I understand that
she is genuinely in Sansa'scorner and that's where it kind
of starts, and Varys is kind oflike figuring her out.
At the same time, you know,varys talks to her and is
basically trying to give herlike a brutal, honest

(30:53):
conversation and be like youwill never have a place, you'll
never fit in.
And I think that that wasgenuinely just Varys looking out
for Tyrion, because sheinterprets it completely
different and she's like if hewants me to leave, he can tell
me himself, because that's whatVarys was telling her to do.
He was like go live a betterlife in Essos or somewhere far
from here, and she thinks thatkind of maybe Tyrion said that.

(31:14):
So if that's what she's sayingor thinking, and if that's what
you're trying to get at as well,like do you think that she
betrayed him after this?
Like, do you think that'sbecause to me, like, I remember
being like that's what I'm goingto keep an eye out for this
rewatch.
I'm going to keep an eye outfor when and why would she
betray Tyrion?
Like when would it start?
And I think that this is themoment that sticks out to me so

(31:37):
far in the season, season three,that could have been the start
of it, of her being like, I'mgonna be tritarian then, because
this kind of is kind of givingher like a like an alert that
she's not like a reality check,basically a reality check, and,
um, it broke her heart a little.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
So this probably was like the first thing that led to
her what was Varys' motivationin that, if it was his idea,
like I don't get it.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
I don't fully get it.
I think he was just trying tolook out for Tyrion but at the
same time, like Does he?

Speaker 2 (32:14):
really believe that Tyrion is the one that's going
to be the leader of the country.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
And does he think Tyrion will be that distracted
by Shae to the point where it'sgoing to ruin his life?
Like does he think that Shaewill be another Tysha?
You know, like I don't thinkthat that was ever going to
happen.
Like I think that kind of Shaeand Tyrion kind of knew each
other's boundaries well enoughby now you know what I mean Like

(32:43):
Shay was happy with how thingswere.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
I mean if Tyrion wanted her gone he could have
talked to Varys and say hey,let's figure out how to wait to,
yeah, maybe get her out and,you know, set her up with a nice
little bachelor, not bachelorpad somewhere.
But anyway, let's go to Tersi.
I'm like you now I'm combiningnames.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
Tyrion and Tersi.
We're not on our idea.
I just said Tyrion and Tywinwould consummate their marriage.
Please have another scene inKing's Landing featuring him.
And it's actually a veryinteresting scene that he has
with Cersei because like theywere kind of talking about where
they are and it's kind of avery vulnerable conversation

(33:30):
between the two and we've saidthis before where they did have
a vulnerable scene, like a veryemotional scene with one another
.
I think it's season two, um,like I can't recall exactly now.
Um, but like this is anotherrare occurrence and cersei is
definitely the more like I don'twant to call her the more
emotional one here, but I guessthe more raw one in this scene,

(33:52):
rather than tyrian, which isinteresting because it seems out
of nowhere, right, like if youjust see her, because in the
scene basically I'm just gonnacut right to it she talks about
her children and she wouldliterally admit to tyrian that
if it wasn't for, uh, herchildren, then she would have,
like, ended her own life and shesays that's like the one thing
that brings her happiness in herlife.
And she tells tyrian give sansakids so that she can have some

(34:16):
happiness in her life.
And I think that Cersei here isjust being 100% genuine.
So it's a very weird, raremoment that I do appreciate,
because you hear Cersei kind ofreflecting on her life and her
motherhood.
It feels a bit out of nowherebut I guess maybe the whole
small council scene kind ofignited it, because she was kind
of embarrassed by Joffrey andgot her thinking it's like how

(34:39):
did he become the way that hewas?
Because then she goes on totalk about how Joffrey was such
a joyful child you know what Imean and no one would have
expected that, um, he would turninto what he turned into.
So I don't know, I just thinkthat it feels a bit, a bit a tad
out of nowhere.
But at the end of the day Istill appreciate it because it's
a rare look into Cersei's kindof mindset and her knowing and

(35:01):
admitting that she's unhappy.
And I guess, if I'm going togive a bit more context from
myself in this scene, I thinkthe reason that she opens up to
Tyrion, of all people here, isbecause Jaime is still nowhere
to be found.
Like this might be aconversation that you would have
with jamie, I don't know.
Like I know their, theirconversation is more like, I
guess, lustful than uh, thandeep, but I don't know like it.

(35:25):
Just it seems a bit odd and outof place, maybe because it
doesn't seem to me like a scenewhere it's like oh, tywin went
and convinced cersei to telltyrian oh, oh, go and have
children.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
And she's very confident that she's not going
to marry Loras Tyrell?

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
She's like I'm not marrying him.
Yeah, and Tyrion's like yeah, Isaid the same thing.
Let's go up north and we'regoing to talk about Bran, hodor,
jojen and Meera.
And they get a surprise visitoror not even a visitor they get,
which, of course, in theseshows, these drama shows, they

(36:05):
want to ratchet up the suspenseand you think somebody's coming
through the door and then it'sthe lovable Sam.
Okay, here we go.
Sam gets to meet Jon's brother,which I love that he knows it's
brand.
Right away he notices that he'sin a wheelchair or he's not
standing up, and then he putstwo and two together when he

(36:27):
sees um summer and he goes.
I know a dire wolf, I've beenaround ghost enough that I know
that's a dire wolf.
And I just love sam because I'mgonna trust you and I'm gonna
help you.
That's what I got out of thisepisode.
I mean, this scene with withsam is just like here's, here's
how to.
At first he's like no, no, wegot to get you the nice watch,
we got to get you the black.
You know, hopefully john willcome back, but you'll be safe

(36:49):
there.
And, um, it doesn't take toomuch convincing for him to go
here's some dragon glass, we'llhelp you, even though
technically he breaks the rulesof the nice watch, which is what
it's, a kind of a protocol.
You're not supposed to uh,you're supposed to say neutral
and you should limit contactwith outsiders.

(37:09):
You're not, and especially notlet them through the tunnel and
have them help them go.
Oh, yeah, yeah, and and that'sprobably one of the rare moments
that Sam breaks the rules- andhe was so, as you said, I love
how he was so enthusiastic aboutit.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
I was like, oh, I'm more than ready then to help you
.
But something that I thoughtwas really funny as well was
when they were talking about theWhite Walkers and everything.
And then Georgian was like,yeah, we know about the White
Walkers, nothing can stop them.
And Georgian was like, yeah, weknow about the White Walkers
and nothing can stop them.
And then Sam was like, butyou're going to stop them?
And then Brian was just like,please, sam, I have to go.

(37:45):
And then, of course, did anyonestop them?
Did Brian stop them?
No, but anyways, I'm going toleave the season eight like
bashing for when we cross thatbridge.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Was it a coincidence that Brian was telling the story
of the rat cook or rat?

Speaker 1 (38:00):
king or whatever?
No, definitely not.
The rat cook yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yeah, rat cook, and how the gods are punishing him
for harming his guests under hisroof, and his brother just was
murdered in the same situation.
So it's chilling.
But anyway, we see Sam reachCastle Black and talk to Maester
Aemon and the fact that hethought that that was Sam's
child.
But, how would you have a child?
But anyway he tells her she'sCraster's wife slash daughter,

(38:32):
yeah, and he tells him to I lovehow enthusiastic Sam is for
writing.
He's like I guess, give me thequill he's so excited to like
write all these notes to everylord in Westeros.
He has to write 44 lettersBecause he goes yeah, we have 44
ravens.
You need to send this out and hesends out the raven and then we

(38:55):
see what the raven says.
Because when we go toDragonstone stone, you know
davos sees the letter and nowhe's reading the correspondent
correspondence.
He's learned enough that he cannow read it and I just love
that shireen is still helpinghim.
And can I just say I know I'mjust going quickly, but I love

(39:15):
that shireen is so fascinatedwith the targaryens and the
dragons yeah, I do.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
I mean, it's not definitely not the first time
we've heard her speak of them umdragonstone, but like, let's
rewind a little bit, like, yeah,I, I do think that's really
cool to see um shireen beinginterested in targaryens because
it also provides, like, somelore.
It's not, it's always nice tohear a little bit of lore.
That isn't just exposition, youknow, drop or whatever

(39:43):
exposition rambling as they say.
I don't know what they say, butyou know what I mean.
But yeah, with Davos practicinghis reading, like there are a
few like, yes, that moment isvery important for him at the
end of the dragon's one scenes,but at the beginning, when he's
practicing his reading, did youcatch that what he was reading
was a birthday invitation thatStannis received for someone's

(40:05):
birthday?

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Which I thought was hilarious, because who on earth
would want Stannis of all peopleat their birthday party Like
the most depressing person everLike?

Speaker 2 (40:18):
at this point, there's no need to invite
someone to invite you might aswell get a blanket and dip it in
water and just throw it on thefloor.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
That's that yeah, I mean, and like, who's throwing
birthday parties?
Like, unless it was an old uhold letter that they received.
Who who's throwing a name dayslash birthday party in the
middle of the war.
I just thought it was like a fun, funny little moment from Davos
and Stannis, but before that aswell, we have like a tiny
little scene between Davos andGendry bonding over being from

(40:52):
Flea Bottom, which was nice,because you never really see
anyone kind of make thatconnection with Gendry, and I
think that that meant a lot tothe both of them, like it's kind
of like okay, we're a seed.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Now Gendry is like yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, whatever
.
And then, kind of you know,davos is naming all these little
parts of Flea Bottom yeah yeah,yeah.
Oh, okay, I guess you're legit,yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
What I thought was really actually funny was that
when they kind of get word thatRob died, you do kind of see
Davos get freaked out a littlebit by that news because he's
like, oh, then it's work, thenshe is that powerful and this is
real blood magic, becausethat's what we said the last
time.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Are you talking about Stannis or Davos?
Because I think Stannis isstill no, davos was shocked.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Oh, like I think that he doesn't doesn't support her,
but he was freaked out at thefact that rob died because the
sacrifice thing just happened.
You know what I mean?
Like he was like oh, then hermagic worked and she's a she's
an evil witch.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
That's the way I see that I saw davos in that scene.
He was like I.
Oh, then her magic worked andshe's an evil witch.
I don't know.
That's the way I see Davos inthat scene.
He was like I don't support herand she's going to do this the
evil way, the not right way withmagic, and that's bad.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
I saw it differently.
I thought I saw that he goes.
Well, this is a war and peopledie Not just because he threw
whatever in the fire.
Well, this is a war and peopledie not just because he threw
whatever in the fire.
I think he turns a little bitwhen Stannis is upset and wants
to kill him because he letGendry loose.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Which poor Gendry he's going to be roaring for in
the next few seasons.
Remember he rose.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Yeah, he rose for seasons sorry.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
I and also sorry, ladies and gents, when he sets
him free he does say row untilyou reach rook's rest okay, I
thought that was kind of a coollittle thing.
You know, when you're watchingit for the first time, like oh,
rook's Rest, okay, whatever.
Now the House of the Dragon.
You know Rook's Rest.

(43:03):
You know one of our queenspassed away.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
I didn't even catch that at all, but wait, there's
something I caught and there'ssomething I missed.
So, first thing, I'll talkabout the thing that I missed,
which is that I actually watchedthe episode with the script,
like while looking at the script, and so I have it like in my
notes as well, and Imisremembered the line that
davos said because when, uh, robdies, um, when sanis informs

(43:31):
stan, when sanis tells davosthat rob dies, davos says and
you take credit because youdropped a leech into the fire
question mark in my headovernight, the way that that's
lying stuck in my head was thisis it's because you dropped a
leech into the fire, like he wasaccusing her yeah you know.
So it was a misrememberingmoment from me, um, and my notes

(43:52):
didn't help with that.
But now that I'm looking at thethe scripts here because
obviously I had it sinceprepared, since since yesterday
I'm looking at the scripts herebecause obviously I had it
prepared since yesterday I'mlike oh wait, the question mark
is there.
And he was saying why would youtake credit for something that
would happen?
So your interpretation iscorrect.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
And Melisandre, she jumps on that.
She proves that the power ofthe king's blood and the
sacrifice it kind of reinforcesher influence on Stannis and
Davos is acting.
He's the moral compass, he's,he saves gendry and challenges.
I don't think it's the blindfaith that stannis has to the

(44:30):
lord of light.
I just think that he sees thisas a mechanism to help him
become king and he'll, he'll,he'll, support it because it's,
it's, even though he's I don'tthink he's agrees with it or
believes it.
As long as it's helping him,he's cool with it.
And uh, he, he orders, that's,that davos be killed for treason

(44:53):
yeah, yeah, yeah and that'swhen davos whips out.
they're written from castle andit reads about the dead and all
that coming.
And then she throws it in thefire and the fire sees the truth
and he goes.
Well, you know what?
Actually, don't kill him, he'sgoing to help you in the future.
Melisandre kind of saved hislife, and that's what Stanislaus
points out.

(45:13):
The god that's mocking you beenmocking, just saved you.
Now you're a part of thereligion, now you have to
believe.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
Yeah, that's true, and like something that I I
mentioned the thing that I likemissed, which was the question
mark thing, but there's actuallysomething that I thought was
interesting and I had to look upa meaning of it, because when
Gendry asked Davos, why are youdoing this, like, why are you
saving me?
Davos says because it's rightand because I'm Davos says

(45:45):
because it's right and becauseI'm a slow learner.
So I was like I'm a slowlearner, like I kind of
understand that we've seen thatin the show, but why, like?
How does that apply to why he'ssaving Gendry?
And I think that the onlyexplanation that I could um
explain this line is the factthat, like, if he has doesn't
know yet what's right and what'swrong, yet what's right and

(46:13):
what's wrong, so he's slow tokind of bend his morals to, uh,
the cold pragmatism of sanus Idon't know who the author of
that was.
I saw that that was what waswritten online, um and he has
not learned, in other words, tostay out of trouble.
So it's like he has not learned, in other words, to stay out of
trouble.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
That makes sense for for um, like a double meaning
for this line yeah, uh, let's goback north, because I got all
giddy and wanted to go straightto the dragon stone and talk
about the raven, but we have totalk about john.
We start the scene with johnand all of a sudden it pans back
and then we see egret pointingan arrow to him.
I found that kind of you know Ikeep saying heartbreaking, but

(46:45):
it is.
You can see the her eyes.
She feels hurt.
I mean it's the, the betrayalbecause she loves this guy.
There's no pleading, there's nospeech, there's just I want to
shoot you.
It's not even.
It's just, it's not even blindrage, it's like a quiet pain
that you see in her eyes andyeah and I think, in all honesty

(47:07):
, she could have killed him, Ithink.
do you think that she shot himin those places on purpose, or
was she trying to kill him?

Speaker 1 (47:16):
No, I think that she purposefully didn't kill him
because she loves him too much.
You know like she's so hurt,but she loves him so much that
she can't do that.
And I saw an interview whereKit Hrington said, um kind of
the same, uh, something alongthose lines.
He said that when he wastelling egret, um, you won't

(47:37):
shoot me, he wasn't sure ifegret was going to shoot him or
not.
Like john at that moment wasn'tsure yeah um, like he thought
that egret could very easilykill him and he wasn't sure.
But it was more like he wastelling her or trying to
convince her not to shoot him.
Like you, you won't shoot me.
Like, in a way, don't kill me.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
And trying to convince her yeah, um, I think
other other shows would havefumbled that and they would have
had egret say some speech Ilove you and blah blah you know
what I mean, but this, thisreaction and her action is so in
par with her character thatit's perfect.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, if you got that from her it
wouldn't be Ygritte, right.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
No.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
And just to finish, the thing about Katerin's thing
that I was saying is that he wassaying that, yeah sure, John
was trying to convince her, butI think that honestly, Ygritte
maybe didn't really need anyconvincing at that moment.
I don't think that she was evergoing to um, shoot him just
just um yeah, to answer yourquestion of would she have,
could she have?

Speaker 2 (48:35):
yeah, it's funny we have john reach castle black all
wounded and then he kind offalls.
It kind of reminded me of umaragon and lord of the rings,
the two towers when he gets toThelm's Deep.
But yeah, we have there's a lotof arrivals here a lot of people
reaching their destination.

(48:56):
You have Jon finally gettingback to the wall, to the castle
block, and then we have Jaimeand Brienne getting to King's
Landing, which is just a veryshort scene.
We see him with this cut offhand.
We see Cersei he jumps in theroom and he looks at her.
They look at each other.
It's just a very short scene.
We see him with this cutoffhand.
We see Cersei he jumps in theroom and he looks at her.
They look at each other.
And that was pretty much it, sowe don't get to see the

(49:17):
interaction until season four,all of Jaime's scenes amount to
maybe 25 seconds.
It's not that much in theepisode, maybe a minute or so.
Yeah, because that's a while.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yeah yeah.
Let's say a minute, but there'sa wall, yeah, yeah, uh like
let's say a minute.
But even so, I think that therewas a lot of like unsaid things
.
That's a lot, but like a bit ofunsaid things between jamie and
cersei there.
Um, you can see the shame injamie's eyes when he kind of
appears because his uh like acut off hand or like arm is in
front of him, a spandage, youknow the way, like a broken arm

(49:45):
would be.
It's in front of him, he can'thide it.
So, uh, his messy appearanceand everything plus the broken
hand, is the first thing that uh, that cersei sees.
So I I wasn't really focusingon cersei here, I was trying to
make out the look in her eyes.
She kind of like if I woulddescribe it, would say that she
looks like she's seen a ghost,like she was never, like she
wasn't considering jamie at thatmoment, or the possibility of

(50:06):
jamie's return.
So she's like shook, to use thatword.
But uh, I thought it was reallyinteresting and a bit
heartbreaking to see the shamein jamie's eyes yeah, she
probably never seen him in thatstate obviously no hand beard
dirty.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Hasn't probably showered in months or probably
the last showers when he wasconfessing or the monologue.
Uh, so yeah I mean.
That's why he's ashamed as well,not just because of his hand,
but because he's in the statethat he's in yeah, all right,
let's go to um vessels, let's goto yunkai and let's talk about
why this episode is titled misa.

(50:46):
So before we talk about thescene, I'm going to say that
this was my least favorite sceneof the episode.
Not because of what it was,it's because I felt it wasn't
earned.
This is such a major turningpoint in her arc and it felt
like a snapshot the previousepisode.

(51:07):
We don't see the battle.
We see the top and then all of asudden we get to the gate and
they're just yelling out motherand misa and all this in this
ancient not ancient language,but a different language.
So I just think there was.
It wasn't fully fleshed out andthere wasn't an emotional
payoff for me and I think thescene was so short and why leave

(51:30):
it to the end?
It kind of made the episode alittle imbalanced, because you
have all this sorrow and allthis emotional stuff that's
going on and all of a sudden allthis happiness.
I've never seen Daenerys smilethat way.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
So that's the only reason I like this, this okay, I
like the scene, but I think itwasn't like worthy of it being
the last scene of the episode.
It could have been the firstscene for me okay.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
Oh, it's interesting that you said it could have been
the first scene because, like,I don't want to like go off the
topic direct for a second, butif this wasn't the last scene,
what scene would you think wouldhave been a good last scene
then?

Speaker 2 (52:13):
I mean we could have had Jamie or even something with
Bran or even Jon reaching thewall, but also again, that was
another scene, that was onesecond and there's a lot of
really short scenes Like King'sLand.
They took the bulk.
Yes yes.
Again of the episode.
I get why you know leading with.

(52:35):
I mean she's the final shot ofseason one, the dragons, the
final shot of season three.
I forgot what's the final shotof season two?
I forget.
Oh, it was the White Walkers.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
What's it?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yeah, so the final shot of season two was the White
Walkers.
So the first three seasons youget Daenerys as being the final
shot.
I'm just saying I felt it was alackluster.
We could have had more with herearning this title, other than
like I just arrived here andthen you're liberated.

(53:11):
We could have had scenes of hertalking with these people, like
having not kind of a marjoriegoing to flea bottom yes she's
talking to.
She's talking to.
You know, the lowborns orwhatever.
I don't know what.
What's your take on it?

Speaker 1 (53:26):
I hate to say that I agree, but I do, because I think
that when you said the thingwhere there's no emotional
payoff, and it is true becauseit's supposed to be an emotional
moment for Dani, but it's notan emotional moment for us, the
viewers, like when she got theAnsali, that was considered one
of the other best moments of theseries, because we see her in
her journey to getting them andwe see that she is actually

(53:52):
bettering their situation.
Like we see the justificationfor her action and we see her
intention and of course, herintention is to get an army.
But you know, we see her, hermindset, you know the classic
Danny mindset of being like I'mnot going to force them to work
for me.
It's going to be of their ownfree will and they all choose to
serve her, obviously.
But there is an emotional payoffthere because we're proud of

(54:15):
her and we feel like you knowshe's doing the right thing and
we know that she's going to dothe right thing.
And of course, it's likethere's it's a spectacle and
epic, and you know like yeah,fine, but there's nothing.
And when it comes to yun kaiyou know what I mean I think
that it's just as you said.
It's like it feels distant, youknow, it feels like we can't.

(54:35):
It's an accomplishment, I guess, but you can't really consider
it's an accomplishment becausewe don't feel we don't feel it.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Yeah, we didn't get to dive deep into her like, uh,
doubts, yeah, fears, and thenand also it feels too clean and
tidy and the it's a victorycelebration and, like I said,
compared to the rest of theepisode, which was brutal yeah,
so it felt off kilter yeah, andI think that I, like, I would I

(55:03):
don't I'd hate to like say this,but amelia clark was smiling a
bit too much, uh, in that scene,just because why would Danny be
that happy?

Speaker 1 (55:11):
but at the same time, like, I do want to talk about
Danny and her intentions herebecause, um, you know, this
scene got a lot of criticismright we talked about this even
before recording um, where it'slike they consider this a scene
that was heavily criticizedbecause, like label Danny is
kind of like a white savior,right, and has that stroke that
we've seen.
But I think that there are somethings that I cannot to always

(55:34):
be like a danny defender, butyou know what I mean.
Like there are some it does.
It's not a good look,definitely, but there are some
scenes where, um, or like somethings about it, that kind of
should be taken intoconsideration as well when
considering those criticisms,which is that, right before the
the, like the gates were aboutto open, we can see that danny
has dashed, like what if theydon't want to be conquered?

(55:55):
Like she's not doing this justto gain power.
She's not like a, uh, powerhungry, mad queen.
You know what I mean at.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Uh, you know like let dan and dave season eight era
yeah, hear this, but uh yeah,but jorah does have a nice
comeback and says you're notconquering them, you're
liberating them see, but that'sthe thing it's like.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
it sounds nice, but to me I think that that made it
worse, because when you hear himsay that it feels like it's
called, it brings to mind realworld things that are iffy, so
it paints Dani in a bad light tous, the viewers, even though he
is right.
Like it's an iffy line to hear,because when you hear that
you're like, oh wait, maybeDani's actually wrong for doing

(56:38):
this.
But she's having those samedoubts as well, you know.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
I think that it would be that, if you're talking
about, if this was somethingthat she first did, that she's
like oh, I just want to liberatesomebody, but she's been in
this path of of liberating andand and getting rid of slavery.
You know, it's been buildingthroughout already, for the
season or whatever, so it wasn'tlike all of a sudden, it just

(57:02):
yes yes, up of.
Oh yeah, I'm just going to beyour savior and she wants to do
it like it's not like she'sdoing that just because she
wants to get some good PR.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Yeah, yeah, and like that's the way that Jorah sees
it, I think, right, Like I thinkthat you know oh my God, this
rewatch.
I'm hating Jorah so much forsome reason and it's so
interesting because I just heannoys me every time I see him,

(57:34):
but he sees it in that way Ithink you know what I mean like
he is the type of person thatwould tell you would do it for
the PR of it all.
But for Dani, you know, as yousaid, we've been building this
um, like character for so long,this intention within her, and
we know that when she's doingthis, she's not doing it for
herself, she's doing it for thepeople.
We know that.
That's actually why, whereshe's coming from, like there is
no selfish, selfishness in it.
Like, even though there wassome maybe in the past, like
when she got the Ansari, likeshe did seek to gain something

(57:58):
from it.
Here, she doesn't seek to gainanything from it.
Like she just genuinely wantsto serve these people and she's
thinking of their wants andneeds.
So she did do even though, likeit's been labeled as like icky
or like white savior-ish, danifor them did do something

(58:19):
positive.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Like she did have a positive change for these people
, like it was the positive thingand in hindsight, when you see
what her character does in thefuture, you know that's not the
case yeah um, yeah, it's abummer, that one.
The scene is so short like I'mlooking at, I'm re-watching and
I go.
There's only four minutes leftyeah, it's just like they're

(58:43):
gonna do this in four minutesand before we wrap up.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Before we wrap up the episode um, did we mention aria
killing, the guy that killedrob?

Speaker 2 (58:52):
no, and it's funny because I completely forgot
about her killing a fray beforeI thought season.
The opening of season seven iswhen she kills all the phrase.
And this guy, this guy is oneof those bullshit artists who
the heck even knows if he waseven there.
He's one of those guys like,yeah, I was there and I'm the
one that sold the head on, andeven like even his guys, his

(59:14):
other, so you know, guys, thefriends that were there, like
right, like everybody's gonnaclaim now that they were there
you know, every guy's gonna saythat he's the one that did it.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
So yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
So it's kind of a funny thing and I just I
completely forgot, uh that aajust goes up to the dude and
just starts, just startsstabbing him.
And it's so funny how it's likejust he doesn't even tell her
that she did anything wrong.
She just said just give me aheads up.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Yeah, yeah.
And what I love about it too isthat it shows Arya kind of
figuring out how to maneuver inthis world already, because she
doesn't just go up and like stabthem.
She like acts like she's inneed and then she pays them
because she knows that money isgoing to help her and like would
be beneficial to these or likeattractive to these people you
know, like, and then she stabsthem.

(01:00:00):
So it was a very interestingscene.
And then when he said, thehound asks her like is that the
first man that you've killed?
Ary asks her like is that thefirst man that you've killed?
Aria says yeah, the first man,because obviously we've seen her
kill someone else before, buthe was a child, so that was a
nice call back yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
So it's been crazy that we've started this little
season three journey threemonths ago.
I mean, uh, we're here, seasonthree finale.
What do you rate this before?
I ask you?
I think we.
I don't know if you have thesame favorite scene as me, I'm
going to say the small councilscene.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Same.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
It's the standout, okay, so all right.
So what do you rate the seasonthree finale?

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
I'll give it a nine.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Okay, I agree with you.
I'm going to give it a nine.
But what about rating thisfinale with the others?
I'm going to say the season onefinale is still the best one.
Yeah, finale is still the best.
The best one, yeah, because I Ithink the it is so good, and
also that it ends with daenerysand the dragons, which is such
an iconic shot, and season twoends with the white walker.

(01:00:58):
So I'm gonna say one, two,three season finale ratings, um
I might say one, three, two okay, so how about we wanted to do
top three episodes of the season?
Okay, so what is your?
Will you want to give me yourthree, or your three and two,
and then we'll unveil our one.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
I forgot to do this, I forgot to prepare it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
So I'm going to give you my number three and my
number two.
My number three episode of theseason is going to be episode
five, Kissed by Fire, and thenmy number two is going to be
episode four Now His Watch hasEnded, I think Kissed by Fire.
I put that because that's whereJamie tells the monologue.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Okay, I was wondering if it was that or if it was.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
John and finally do the thing.
Okay, okay, okay, okay.
And the how?
I mean the there's a lot ofgood stuff that happens on the
episode okay, so can I just copyyou okay because, like I, I
tend to forget what happens ineach episode.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
But like I don't know if you're gonna cut that, but
you helped remind me which bigevents happen in which episodes
and all the important eventshappened in the ones that you
picked.
So I'm like are the importantevents to me?
I guess were the my favoriteparts.
So the jamie uh moment happensin um episode and kissed by fire
and I thought it was.

(01:02:26):
For some reason I confused itwith the bear and the Maiden
Fair, even though that happenslater.
I associate the Bear and theMaiden Fair with Jamie and
Brienne, so I just got confused.
But yeah, I'll just copy youfor those two and obviously for
number one.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
You're going to copy my okay, road wedding number.
I'm going to copy you, yeah,Okay, the tougher question Top
three performances of the seasonof the season yeah, uh,
michelle fairley and ameliaclark, obviously, and um are you
ranking them or just give meyour top three?

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
oh, I'm just giving okay, I'm just giving.
Uh, actually I'm I don't knowif I want to maybe sophie turner
, but I really want to includeCharles Danson there as well.
I might replace Emilia withCharles, just because I feel
like this was a very Tywin primeseason as well.
So yeah, top four.
Those are my top four.

(01:03:21):
I'm going to cheat.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
I have the same.
Oh no, I actually have CharlesDanson, peter Dinklage, michelle
Farrelly.
I'll give a shout out to LenaHeadey and Diana Riggs

(01:03:50):
no-transcript.
Also I'm going to.
I forgot her name, but NatalieDormer.
Yes.
Okay, I'm going to give her alittle shout out.
I think she just plays thatperfect role, you get a shout
out.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
You get a shout out.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
Yeah, everybody gets a shout out.
Alright, get a shout out.
Yeah, everybody gets a shoutout, alright.
So we're going to rate theseason.
I don't remember what we ratedseason one and two.
I'm assuming it's like a nineright.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
Yeah, I would assume so.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
And I have proclaimed before we even started watching
season two that I've alwayssaid that season two was my
favorite season of the show.
And I think I'm going to changemy mind now because, after
watching season three, I'm goingto say season three had more,
um, heavy hitting, greatdialogue, great scenes and

(01:04:39):
obviously, one of the shockingepisodes of all time.
I'm going to give season threethe edge for now, uh, as my
favorite season of the show, andI'm going to give season three
like a 9.2 out of 10.
I think every episode wasreally good, the one episode
that if I were to say my leastfavorite would be the second one

(01:05:00):
, dark Wings, dark Words.
But every other episode waspretty legit.
So, yeah, I'm excited we're notgoing to do season four for a
while.
Um, so I'm gonna try to rereadstorm of swords.
I know you did and I always maynot make fun of you, but I was
just kind of teasing you andlook at me.

(01:05:21):
I I just dropped the ball and Iheard somebody asked me you
should do more book stuffincluded, and I think we want to
separate that for now.
We'll do the show with the showand because we could use book
material as content, which we'regoing to do.
Yes, which we're going to do,but we're going to use that for

(01:05:41):
future episodes and because wedo want to go back and talk
about Ned's death and Baelor andBlackwater, and you know, when
it comes to the book, and wealso said that we want to talk
about the downfall of Robb Stark, which I think would be a very
interesting episode to get into.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
And speaking of Robb, I actually have a funny note
that I found in my notes forthis episode that I forgot to
talk about.
It's something that youmentioned before we started
recording.
Um, so in my notes I wrote Robhead equals Ned head.
So Rob's uh wasn't really hishead, but like the way that his
corpse was in this episodereminded me of like seeing Ned's
uh head on a stick on like thethe end season, the season for

(01:06:27):
finale of season one, just likeit reminded me of that.
And you mentioned also how thisfinale is like very reminiscent
of the season one finale aswell.
So I just thought that thatscribble Rob Head equals Ned
Head made me laugh, so I justwanted to include that.
It's like one of the last notes.
So, yeah, when I got to the endof my notes, that was what was
written there.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
And it's kind of funny because I do enjoy not
funny, you know, I really enjoydoing these episodic reviews
Because one it gets me to watchthe show again and I go.
You know, this is our.
We're going to year three ofour podcast already and I was
like we've already done threeseasons.

(01:07:09):
I don't want to go too quicklyand I thought I don't think we
will, because next year we'regonna have a lot of content to
review and to go over,especially with uh duncan egg
and uh hostile dragon, seasonthree, which we haven't really
talked about and we will betalking about soon in our
stand-alones where we'll we'llget everybody caught up to all

(01:07:30):
the gossip that has been goingon with the actors and and the
shooting schedules and all that.
So, um, yeah, I was a fun, funreturn to season three and I and
I think that season four isgoing to compete.
I think I remember season fouris so amazing.
I think season four has themost episodes, that is over nine

(01:07:51):
on imdb okay I think it haslike six.
So I mean, the last fourepisodes of the of the season is
like bangers you have, you know.
So it's gonna be great.
And then we're gonna get one ofour, my favorite characters in
Prince Oberyn Yep, which isfunny.
I was trying to listen.

(01:08:13):
I'll tell you something.
I was trying to listen to theSmall Council chapter, okay, and
I could hear the narrator sayoh, tyrion has to deal with
Prince Oberyn and his crew, soPrince Oberyn is already in
King's Landing.
He should have been therealready in season three, but

(01:08:34):
anyway, I'm rambling here.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
It's because you don't want to let go of season
three.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
Yeah, I don't want to let go of it.
So what did you rate seasonthree?
I'm sorry, did you say it?

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
No, I don't think I did.
Okay, go ahead.
I think maybe I'd give it a 9.5is a bit much, but I honestly
think that's such a great season, so why not?
Let me be generous today,because last episode you told me
I wasn't generous enough forthe red wedding, so let me give
it a 9.5.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
All right, Actually, you know what I was going to do
our outro but we had a questionfrom Caden Crippen, who's been
sending us questions.
So thank you, Caden.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
His question is which is a good one Would Roos and
Walder have eventually betrayedRob regardless of Tywin's
backing?

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
I think if Tywin wasn't involved at all, then no,
because they need to be tied tosomeone stronger than them.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
So yeah, and the only reason why he did that is
because he got Harrenhal, he gotRiverrun.
He's called the warden of theRiverlands.
He wants the titles, he wantsthe respect.
I don't think he would havehashed his plan to say I'm going
to get the St but if there wasnothing in return.

(01:09:49):
So I think without Tywin hedoesn't even fathom doing this.
How about we say goodbye toseason three?
Minwa, are you ready to saygoodbye?
We're finally going to put itdone and get out of here.
I'll let you go to bed becauseit's pretty late over there.
I got to thank Minwa becauseshe's a trooper.
She is stale.

(01:10:10):
I don't even know how you dothat.
You're still a young lady.
That's why I can't even imaginerecording.
What time is it over thereright now?
Two in the morning, one.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
One.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
One.
Yeah, I would be like beingsmart already.
Anyway, we want to thankeverybody for listening to
Dancing with Dragons, our 71stepisode.
We really enjoyed taking a tripback to season three, breaking
down all these unforgettablemoments with you.
If you liked the episode,please make sure to follow and
rate the podcast.
To follow us on social media,go to dancingwithdragons.

(01:10:44):
For our next episode we'll bediving deep into the
heartbreaking downfall of RobStark, so stay tuned for that.
Until then, keep dancing withdragons.

All Episodes

Game of Thrones: S3 | EP10 "Mhysa"

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Game of Thrones: S3 | EP10 "Mhysa"