July 16, 2025 • 48 mins
For the 68th episode of Dancing with Dragons, Minwa and Tony delve into Jaime Lannister's redemption arc, as it reaches its critical turning point when he risks everything to save Brienne from a bear pit, highlighting the show's exploration of honor and transformation. We also analyze this pivotal episode, written by George R.R. Martin himself, and see how characters across Westeros and Essos navigate power, love, and survival.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I thought you were gone Tomorrow.
Have they told you what theyplan to do with me?
Lord Bolton's travellingtomorrow as well.
He's going to the Twins forEdmure Tully's wedding.
You're to remain here WithLocke.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I owe you a debt.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
When Catelyn Stark released you, we both made a
promise to her.
Now it's your promise.
You gave your word, keep it andconsider the debt paid.
I will return the Stark Ghostto the Mother.
I swear it.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Goodbye, sir Jaime.
Hello and welcome to Dancingwith Dragons, your go-to podcast
for everything related to Gameof Thrones, house of the Dragon
and the rest of George RRMartin's Song of Ice and Fire
(01:28):
universe.
My name is Manoa and I'm herewith my co-host, tony, and today
we're continuing our journeythrough Season 3 of Game of
Thrones with a deep dive intoEpisode 7.
If you listened to our lastepisode, we finally returned to
our recaps after a bit of anunintentional hiatus as life
caught up with the both of us,but it's so good to be back.
Today we're covering the Bearand the Maiden Fair, episode 7.
It's named after a popular songin Westeros, but here, of
(01:49):
course, it refers to a hugescene in the story featuring
Bran of Tarth.
This episode premiered on May12th 2013.
It's written by George RRMartin himself, so you know it's
going to be dialogue, heavy andweird, and it was directed by
Michelle McLaren, who you mightrecognize from her excellent
work on Breaking Bad.
She would also go on to directepisode 8 of this season, second
Sons and episodes 4 and 5 ofseason 4 of Game of Thrones.
Just going to give you a quickrefresher as to what happened in
(02:12):
this episode so we're able todive into our recap and have you
all caught up.
In this one we see Jon andYgritte share some tender and
tense moments.
South of the Wall, robb andTalissa talk legacy.
Sansa learns yet again that herlife is not hers to control and
nearest lays down the termswith yun kai.
I mean, I'm so glad to seedanny again this episode.
We didn't see her in the lastone.
(02:32):
I kind of want to just jumpright into it and talk about her
, if you would let me, tony, butI have to ask you first how are
you and I'm ready to talk aboutthe episode and danny- yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
So let's, let's go, let's start with your girl.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, my girl.
So here we get a veryinteresting scene with Dani.
She's going to Yunkai, which isanother slaver city, and you
know she continues her crusadeto free all of the enslaved
cities and slavers in Yunkai andshe's meeting with the Yunkai
representative.
It's a very interesting scenefor Dani, as I said, because she
comes off as very confident.
I think you know we see her inher first kind of political
(03:07):
meeting.
I guess since she acquired theAnsar Eden.
She felt like that young Danifrom the books, because we do
get the sense, you know, we feelin the books that she's younger
than she feels like on the show.
And that's the kind of Danithat I got in this scene,
because she's very intimidatingbut very young.
And you can kind of see theYunkai representative I think
his name was Razdel Mo'iraz.
We see it in his eyes too,where he doesn't really take her
(03:29):
seriously, but then he's alsoreally scared of her dragon.
So he is intimidated, eventhough he kind of doesn't want
to admit it, because she's softbut assertive and sure of
herself in this scene and theyhave like an exchange of offers.
You know she obviously wants tocontinue like freeing the
slaves and they're, just likeyou know, like please leave us
alone, that's it.
Honestly, if I have to likekind of maybe criticize daniel
(03:52):
would be a bit objective thatthat's not a bad option for her
if she did that honestly justbecause, we know that slaver's
bay would have.
You know, it's like it ends upbeing enslaved again.
I don't, I don't think anyonerealizes at this point.
Jorah maybe kind of does, buthe doesn't really give her the
best advice, doesn't put it intothe best words.
He kind of tried to advise herearlier on, but then she makes a
counter offer and she says thatshe'll spare the lives of the
(04:15):
slave masters if every slave isset free and is like given fair
treatment.
And then he, he kind of looksat her and he goes you are mad.
And I, I kept like an angrylittle doodle of an ex to it
because it's like now they'regoing to be like, oh, this is
the seed of her being a madqueen and everything, but it's
like no, she came from a verypure place here.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Do you think that these people know the history of
the Targaryens and about herfather, or are they just
learning this right now?
Or they're just learning thisright now?
The one thing I noticed aboutAstapor or, I'm sorry, not
Astapor Yunkai is that it seemsvery much more sophisticated
than Astapor, Like they have.
(04:56):
He mentions he has rich andpowerful friends and, you know,
trying to intimidate back whileshe was intimidating him.
For me, this scene is greatbecause she's no longer just
reacting, she's dictating termsyeah she's not waiting to be
told, she's just there and youfeel the balance of power has
shifted and she kind of knows it.
And this meeting showsincreasingly comfortable and
(05:17):
wielding authority, withoutasking anybody, without apology,
and jorah's there just to.
He's not giving her anyconcrete advice in my opinion,
and it's just like he's to me.
He's being ignored and he's nothelpful at all, In contrast to
Berenson, whose presence is justlike a bodyguard but he still
(05:38):
feels justified being there.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, and there's a moment with Berenson here that I
love.
This is, I feel, like a trueDanny moment.
Jorah, kind of it's unknowinglyjorah and says the yunkish are
proud people, they will notspend.
And then danny just looks atthem and says and what happens
to things that don't spend?
And jorah just has the like,the worst look on his face while
sir baristan tell me chucklesand winks, like it's a very
(06:00):
blink and you miss it moment.
It's so subtle and I love itbecause you just see how sir
bernstein like is so proud ofher.
He sees what I see.
You know he's not just likethis I don't know clueless
advisor or anything.
He he's.
He has affection for her in away that's not creepy like a
chore.
You know what I mean.
It's like oh, I love bernsteinsalmi and danny and I wish that
he was in the show longer, but II don't want to go down that.
(06:23):
Once I start talking about that, I won't stop.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
No, what also comes out on this scene is that she
has a calm confidence.
She accepts the gold and thendismisses the envoy without
hesitation, like no, that's mine, you gave it to me, it's a gift
and I'm going to use it for thegreater good.
And it makes her feel like herdominance feels effortless, yeah
(06:50):
, earned.
How she doesn't accept thegifts unless you know all 200
000 slaves are freed.
It's a bold demand and it'slike a line in the sand, but
she's not willing, no longerwilling to play politics with
slavers like she has no patiencewith them, and she's making it
clear like reform or face mywrath I love that.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
She's, as you said, so calm and I think I said this
before but she's so like,soft-spoken, while being that
assertive, you know.
So I think that that's kind ofwhat maybe the yung kai people
are, maybe I don't know.
It's always felt like they werea bit more like they were just
very direct and tough.
You know, they weren'tsoft-spoken, they were
soft-spoken, they weremanipulative in the way that
that guy was from Qarth I forgothis name Zaro Zandoxos, you
(07:36):
know like he was soft-spoken butmanipulative.
But Dani is like she's notplaying games and she's soft and
she's like presenting herselfas like, also so womanly.
So that's why I think maybethey're not accepting it,
because you know they're not,you know they're like no one
westeros or essos is like thatprogressive, I guess.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
But um, and and also when we think about her, like if
she were to accept the offer,like the story wasn't ready for
her to go to westeros.
Those dragons are not ready.
She's not ready.
8000 Unsullied soldiers is notenough to reconquer or conquer
Westeros and have people bend toyour will because they're going
(08:12):
to see okay, you have threedragons, well, we could just
kill them.
A few of us soldiers will die,but we'll figure out a way to
trap them And're not largeenough.
So I think it wasn't ready forher.
Unfortunately, we'll haveanother close to three, yeah,
three seasons of her inessos,but at this point it would have
(08:33):
been silly for her to go towesteros yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
I mean, even though I said in the beginning that
night sight, maybe it wouldn'thave been a bad choice if she
took it.
I mean, obviously it's not theright time, but it's just that,
knowing what we know about theslavers, actually I'm going to
make this point, I'm going toretract what I said because
knowing, I was going to sayknowing what we know about the
slavers uh, bay, like journey,it's true that you can argue
(08:58):
that it didn't really do muchbecause they just ended up being
enslaved again.
I actually like came to realizequickly that like, okay, she
just didn't do much but at thesame time, she saved so many
people in the time that she hadinfluence there.
You know what I mean.
It's true that they went back totheir ways, but she had an
impact and she saved some lives.
She changed people's liveswhile she was there.
(09:19):
So that's worth something.
So I'm going to say that mygirl was always right.
So that's worth something.
So I'm going to say that mygirl was always right.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
And who knows, maybe the influence of her leaving and
the idea of freedom stuck.
We don't know, because thestory stopped, so we don't
really know what happened inEssos.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
They were a bit early on in their journey and
couldn't really see the wayforward.
And there is another characterthat kind of has a similar
uncertain future or uncertainjourney in this episode that
kind of gets a tiny bitclarified, and that's someone
all the way in the north ofWesteros and that's Bran.
So in this episode we see Branand Jojen and their camp with
(09:58):
Meera and Osha and Hodor, stillin the north.
That's when they kind ofdiscover, I guess, or when osha
discovers, that mira andgeorgian intend to take bran
beyond the wall.
Um, I think that this is thefirst time it's kind of really
really made clear to ocean.
I think brand too I'm not sureif he knew before, um, that they
were going beyond the wall andI don't think that they even
(10:19):
know why yet.
So, like three-eyed raven, thatwhole thing, I don't think that
they know it.
So like, at least he has an enddestination in mind now, but he
still has no idea why, like whyhe's going where he's going.
And it's a kind of tough scenebecause you see, osha kind of
gets really passionate and shegives the backstory of seeing
her husband killed and thenturned into a white.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, it's not that much.
I think this is the first timein a few episodes that we
actually get some substance.
With Bran it was kind of thestory repeating oh, they're up
in the North, they're bickering,they're not really going
forward with the story.
At least this time they're likeokay, we have a plan now we're
going beyond the wall.
I go okay, because I was kindof it was losing steam a bit for
(11:02):
me, definitely.
Since we're getting these shortscenes and they're like well,
you could have cut that.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Someone else that's kind of struggling with their
plan up in the north is John, soobviously that their climb, his
climb with the Wildings, wassuccessful there south of the
wall.
But they're a week away fromCastle Black so it's still like
the attack is still in the works.
It's not like they immediatelydropped into Castle Black and an
attack started.
No, they're still a while awayand it shows how massive the
(11:30):
wall is.
You know that they started inthat position.
They didn't start anywhere wherethe Night's Watch members are
and we see kind of Aurel, theguy that tried to like chop the
rope or cut the rope and killJon and Ygritte.
We see both Jon and Y egretindividually have discussions
with him and they're kind oflike intimidating conversations.
(11:51):
I think for both um with johnit was not really a very
welcoming or pleasant one.
And um, john's like I saw you,you know you tried to, you tried
to kill me and then or I waslike, yeah, I tried to kill her
too, but she's not upset aboutyou, don't see her crying about.
It's just like the way thingsare like this is how it shows
you the wild thing.
Yeah, it's the wilding mentalityof being like we, we need to
(12:12):
cut out the extra weight, likeyou're just gonna be it, sorry,
you know, um.
And then when he has talk withthe egret, when oral talks egret
, he kind of says that he'sjealous of him and he goes which
I completely forgot about, umand he kind of does try to make
the point to you where it's likeoh, you know, he's not one of
us and stuff like that.
But uh, what I like is that hegoes, kind of it doesn't sway
her in any way, because eventhough you can kind of see maybe
(12:33):
something behind, like in hereyes, like maybe you go and see
her talk to john and they haveshare a very romantic moment
after that and they seem reallyhappy, at least for a little bit
.
Uh, it's a cute moment when,when she sees a windbill and
she's like, is that a palace?
Speaker 1 (12:47):
yeah, it is funny because she's like, she thought
that was like a castle, or yeah,like yeah it's funny yeah, and
it's cute and it's cute, but itturns serious really quick.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
You know um like it turns, I guess let me.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Let me add this audio of john here, because I think
it's one of his best scenes ofthe series.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Ingrid.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
You won't win.
I know your people are brave.
No one denies that.
No, you know nothing.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Six times in the last thousand years.
A king beyond the wallsattacked the kingdoms Six times.
They failed.
How do you know that?
Every boy in the north knows it,we grow up learning it.
You don't have the discipline,you don't have the training.
Your army is no army.
You don't know how to fighttogether.
You don't know that, I do, Iknow it.
(13:42):
If you attack the wall, you'lldie.
All of you, all of us.
It starts it out as romantic but, as you can hear from that
audio, it's got real, real fast.
(14:02):
Um, I think that's what you canhear.
It's obviously um, if you justlike rewind a little bit, you
can hear that when he's sayingthat they won't win, you can.
You can hear, like, the fearand concern in his voice because
he's saying this with care andI would still consider this as
someone's romantic moments,because someone that doesn't
care and doesn't love wouldn'thave said it that way.
You can tell that this issomeone who, whose feelings
(14:25):
completely changed about thewild things, um, after you know,
like meshing with them andeverything, like he he's, he's
scared for them, he doesn't wantthem to lose, genuinely, so
that's why he's telling themthat, um, and it's just, it's a,
it's a dilemma that he hasbecause, you know, yigrit kind
of doesn't like listen to himand says you know, know, like
all of us, not all of you, likeyou're a part of us.
(14:45):
You have to just believe in thismission and like this blind
loyalty kind of to man, and hecan't stand for that.
But at the same time, like he's, he's so heartbroken that this
is the their reality and heknows that they're going to lose
no matter what.
But it does end in like a cuteway because she tells him you're
mine as I am yours.
If we die, we'll die, but firstwe'll live and this is them
(15:06):
living.
The only you can argue that theonly time that John actually
kind of lived life was when hewas with Ygritte, because before
that he was like forgotten atWinterfell, and then after, when
he's you know Lord Commanderand everything, he kind of hates
his life.
It's kind of really boring andhe gets killed and then you know
like later on and he's nothappy in the later seasons
(15:26):
because it's a mess in general.
So like this is the only timewe see john actually living his
best life.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
So you know, what made it a great scene is that
she he cuts her off when she's.
She was about to say you knownothing, john snow yeah he
usually doesn't cut her off, heusually does.
He has a little funny thing shelikes to say and he probably
finds it cute now, but here he'sjust like.
I don't have time for you tofinish that.
I need to tell you what's goingon and I think it was just
(15:56):
wonderful.
And I've been waiting a longtime to see a well-written scene
for Jon and here it is.
And the last time George wrotean episode it was Blackwater and
it was just focusing onBlackwater, so we didn't have
Jon Snow in the episode.
And I think Ygritte's in herelement in this episode that
she's teasing Jon, she's pokingfun at how the South and their
(16:20):
manners and how their babiesthey need drummers, they need
for the, they need to for thearmies to to you know March.
And she's like so you have yoursoldiers and you have what are
the banner men do in the fight?
And they're like well, justhold a fly, just so you just
hold a flag, which I alwaysthought when I always see those
(16:43):
like historical movies.
You have the guys carrying theflags.
I'm like poor guys, they're justcollateral damage, they can't
fight with the flag.
Uh, she spots the windmill andshe just it's like she saw the
great pyramid.
Then we have her not knowingthe the meaning of swoon and
fate, which is all funny, youknow, just to endear us with
(17:04):
that relationship and with hershe's like the central country
girl going to the big city yeah,yeah, yeah, that's a good,
that's a good example.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, poor thing, I can't really imagine he goes
anywhere south of the wall.
Actually, she'd hate it.
Um, and I think that's it forjohn and brown.
But there's one more person inthe north who I don't really
like talking about, and that'stheon, and this is the episode.
This is like a tough one forhim, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
yes, this is beyond breaking point.
I mean, he's been tortured tothe point where he doesn't even
that.
It's hard for him to trust anyanything anymore.
And then when he kind offinally gives in to the girls,
ram Ramsey shows up justrevealing another part of his
mind games.
I mean it's obviously one ofthe worst scenes.
Luckily they didn't show it hiscastration and with Ramsey
(17:56):
taunting him.
I think this is what he said.
He says this isn't happening toyou for a reason, it's just
happening.
It drives home that tortureisn't about punishment or
justice, about his sadisticpower and complete domination,
or dion.
And it feels bad because I Ithink you haven't gotten to this
point yet.
(18:16):
You read the third book, butall of this is from book five
fourth, oh, okay yeah, I thinkit's the fifth book.
This is a prime example of Gameof Thrones, or a brutal example
of how it portrays power.
So Ramsey doesn't want to killTheon, he wants to erase him.
(18:36):
And in this episode we begin tosee that Theon isn't being
tortured, he's being like,rewritten, like after this it's
not Theon anymore.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
That's a good.
That's a better way of puttingit.
He's being rewritten, that'strue.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Just a little trivia here.
In the DVD commentary, GeorgeRR Martin explains that he
didn't write any of the sceneswith Theon and Ramsay in this
episode.
The novel didn't state thatRamsay cut off Theon's generals,
though it was vaguely impliedthat he had.
And then there's another tidbithere is that Theon being
(19:16):
emasculated in this episode isforeshadowed in the season two
episode of man Without Honor, inwhich Theon says, quote I'm
looking at spending the rest ofmy life being treated like a
fool and a eunuch by my ownpeople, and I think we said
something about that line whenwe did our review of that
episode, about him saying eunuch, which was a foreshadowing of
(19:37):
what's to come.
Okay, let's move on to King'sLanding and Minhwa.
You can uncover your ears now.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Well, I'd be more than happy to, because the first
scene I think we get in thisepisode in King's Landing is
between Sansa and Margaery.
Right, and I love theirrelationship.
I love that they're likesisterly and I think we see that
in this episode more than anyother other.
Um, just because they have likea very personal talk, you know,
(20:05):
um Sansa's kind of, I guess,mourning her life, you know,
saying that she's being a bitharsh on herself.
She's saying, you know, I'm astupid little girl with stupid
dreams who never learns, andMarjorie comforts her, that's
what she spends her whole timedoing.
Um, it's true friendship and Ithink that no one ever did
anything like this for Sansa.
You know she, this is what shealways wanted in a sister, and
she never got that from Arya,she never got this kind of
treatment from Catelyn, so it'snot like she had like a mom,
that was like a sister either,you know.
(20:26):
So it's a very nice scene toget, because I think it fills
some void that Sansa like had atthe end, while also helping her
in her current dilemma, which Ithink Margaery does.
You know she, she kind of tellsSansa to see the brighter side
of marrying Tyrion and tries tolist as many pros as she can and
(20:48):
that does help.
We see her kind of calm down.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
I think it's a really good way to show the two
versions of womanhood inWesteros.
So Sansa's innocence versusMargaery's experience.
Margaery isn't just being nice.
She's subtly showing Sansa howto survive by embracing the game
instead of being manipulated ordestroyed by it.
(21:13):
And I think Margaery's theproduct of her grandmother, who
has showed her how to survive.
She's been trained to thinkseveral moves ahead.
She uses her beauty, how shecould be diplomatic and poised,
and she's trying to gently teachin a subtle way.
Teach Sansa, that this is howyou have to survive.
(21:35):
You have to adjust on what'shappening to your life.
Margaery is always playing thegame and Sansa doesn't realize
that even kindness in King'sLanding is sometimes iffy.
You put me in King's Landing.
I wouldn't trust anybody.
(21:57):
I'm so skeptical.
Something else is that thisepisode I think it's the second
time we see a reference toMarjorie, maybe not being a
virgin.
You know they're talkingMarjorie's talking about oh,
when my son is born.
Or you know, I'm going to teachhim the proper ways.
And then, when your son will bethe Lord of Casterly Rock and
(22:17):
the leader of the North, shegoes like my son, that means I
have to.
Yeah, sasa's like so sweet.
So did your mother teach youthat, or I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
It's just like sasa, you're so innocent I know, I
know, poor thing, that's what Iwas saying.
Like she, she needed a sister,you know, and she always kind of
wanted and needed this kind ofrelationship and in a weird way,
I don't know if she was evergoing to get it in the show if
not for marjorie.
You know what I'm saying,because if none of this happened
, if she wasn't in winterfell,then I don't really know how
(22:54):
catherine would have been.
I think she would have beenlike just a very stern mom that
like wasn't very like sisterlyand soft with her the way
Marjorie is, you know.
Like I think that this is, as Isaid, like it's something that
she needed and I like what yousaid about it like being the
different sides of womanhood,because I think that George
George's world shows manydifferent types of women in
different settings and how theydeal with their femininity and
(23:15):
their womanhood.
So you have, like someone likeAria, you know, you have
something like brienne, and thenyou have these girls, um, but I
think that's like it's sointeresting because kind of this
is how the girls within theirnobility, how the noble women
act like womanhood within theirnobility, because it's like what
they're expected to do.
And then you have like the rulebreaker versus the rule
(23:37):
follower, you know, and like theacceptable women that can fall
under these two categories,because, like, like Arya
wouldn't be consideredacceptable.
A rule breaker that'sacceptable is Margaery, whereas
the rule follower that'sacceptable is Sansa.
So I think that like this islike it kind of draws the
guidelines, I guess, for noblewomen.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
What I like about Margaery here is that she could
have made fun of Sansa after themother comment.
But she looks at her, takes apause, she goes yes, my sweet
child, or whatever she says mymother taught me.
And then they walk away.
Like she's trying her best there, but okay, well, let's move on
to Sansa's future husband,tyrion.
(24:16):
And it's funny because he'shaving a talk with Bronn and you
have it's a mirroringconversationn and you have it's.
It's a a mirroring conversationbetween you know, Sansa was
talking about I don't want tomarry or not, I don't want to,
but she's having trepidation andshe doesn't know what to do.
And then I think that Tyrionsees Sansa as a little girl.
He's feeling guilty as well,cause he you know like he, she's
(24:37):
a Stark doing this to herfamily, the way he treats her
throughout.
It's so good like sansa endingup marrying him was probably the
best thing that could havehappened to her in staying in
king's land, because he wouldhave protected her.
But braun is just like you know,just straightforward and just
do what you have to do.
You know she's beautiful andwhat are you talking about?
(25:00):
And then you have the the scenewith shay, who I just think
that she's upset she's gonna be,she's upset that she's gonna be
cast aside.
I feel bad to say this againbecause it seems like I'm
beating a dead horse, but theactress who plays shay, sabelle
kakil, I felt like she went backto the season one form.
It just throws me off becauseyou have maybe the best actor in
(25:23):
the show but not so experiencedactor, I'll say.
And it kind of throws off therhythm and I go, why do I have
to watch this Anyway?
So that's all I have to sayabout that.
I don't want to say an unkindword, all right.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, I think I have a bit to say about tyrian scene.
So first, with shay, I do thinkthat was a weak scene from her,
something I thought was like abit funny, but like a little
over the top a little bit funny.
No, no, it's not that.
It's that tyrian gives her agift and it's golden chains yeah
, yeah, yeah which is reallyfunny, and like tyrian, and she
(25:59):
also looks like.
She's like you give me, you'regiving me chains, uh, and and
you know, because she wasenslaved, and Tyrion's like oh
no, I like, no, it's jewelry, um.
So I thought that was funny.
But actually I liked this scenewith Bronn, uh, because it did
show, as you said, that he seesSansa as this little girl, and
Sansa I guess, but uh, she's ayoung girl, so.
So I liked seeing that side ofTyrion and think that I also
(26:22):
liked seeing that we see that hekind of doesn't have agency.
You know what I mean Either.
You know, we think that theLannisters are kind of
untouchable and everything, buthe can't do anything about it.
You know, we see that he's kindof being forced into it the
same way that she is.
But there's actually a quotehere that I really, really like.
(26:47):
And it comes from braun and hetells tyrian, because I don't
know, he said something.
Tyrian said something about, uh, the north won't accept him, or
something like that.
Yeah, and then uh, braun tellshim you waste time trying to get
people to love you, you'll endup the most popular dead man in
town.
And I just think that that's sogood.
It's such a george line.
All the people that kind of, uh,prioritized the people's love
ended up dying.
You know, like that, that wastheir main goal to get the
people on their side.
They were loved, yeah, but theydied quickly because that's all
(27:07):
that they kind of prioritizedversus like, okay, it holds a
lot of power, the people's love,without a doubt, holds an
immense amount of power, but thepeople that played into that
more than playing into anythingelse, they ended up dead.
You know, like the, likemarjorie, the tyrells, they
ended up dead, whereas thepeople that kind of didn't care
and just kept living their livesand maneuvering politically.
(27:27):
You know, tywin, uh, cersei,jamie, of course, cersei and
jamie and tywin did all die.
But I mean, I don't know, to meit just felt like it's wrong.
It's wrong, true, then whatwhat's brown said?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
because yeah I don't know it's one of those, uh,
crucial windows into tyrian'smoral compass.
Like, yeah, he's a lannister,but he's not like the rest.
Like marjorie said, he does.
He has he been unkind to you?
No, he treats you okay.
Well, she tries.
Tyrian doesn't want to be thatkind of man who takes advantage
of this young, scared and stillmourning her life kind of thing.
(28:04):
And with shay?
Let me go back to shay.
I think that the the way whyshe is getting upset is because
he's like I have to do this.
My family's, this is about myfamily, my family's making me
like they're not making you doanything, right, you don't have
to do it.
And she goes let's go.
Let's like again, we hearanother thing, let's go to eso,
so let's go to valantis.
Or, and he goes, let's go Again.
We hear another thing let's goto Essos, let's go to Volantis.
And he goes.
(28:24):
He says for what?
For me to juggle, to be alaughingstock over there?
That's what would happen.
They see a little man, they'regoing to make fun of him here.
He has the shield of theLannister name and he still has
some power.
So, and he still has some power, so I just thought that was a
funny line.
I'm going to juggle Now.
(28:45):
I really want to talk about oneof my favorite scenes so far of
the season, and that is withTywin and Joffrey when he visits
the throne room.
It's such a powerful visual anda statement about authority and
control from Taiwan.
His long and deliberate walkacross the hall is setting the
(29:09):
stage and, more importantly, theframing of Taiwan at the base
of the throne steps and thentowering over Joffrey, like the
way the camera hats off thecinematographer.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
I mean, it's clear again taiwan is the one truly in
charge yeah, jeffrey's tryingto intimidate taiwan, which is
like a very big challenge Idon't think anybody could take
and succeed at, except maybesomeone like even though that
didn't really work.
But again, then again, shedidn't really like try to
intimidate him, but she did,ended up making him feel
(29:40):
uncomfortable.
But anyways, back to the scene.
Um, yeah, so he tried to likeout macho or out intimidate
tywin, which of course he failedat.
Uh, and it falls flat becausejoffrey is joffrey and since
tywin is tywin, the roles areimmediately reversed, as you
said.
Um, and joffrey's likecomplaining about, like where
they they switch the smallcouncil meetings, because that
(30:00):
was something that theymentioned earlier that tywin
moved it from the like smallcouncil chamber to like the
tower of the hands was closer tohim and joffrey was kind of
whiny about it.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Um, and then no, he was kind of whining.
He goes.
Now I have to walk up all thosestairs you don't want to attend
the meeting and at that momenthe responds by not saying
anything at first.
He walks up the steps to gettaller and it's just kind of
another power play he goes.
(30:31):
Well, I can arrange to have youcarried.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I love that.
I love that.
That's classic Taiwan, it's theperfect line, it's so funny, it
landed so well.
And because even Joffrey likegets so embarrassed by it and
like, oh, I just I saidsomething really stupid and I
really embarrassed myselfbecause he like kind of moves
around his chair before movingon to the next point he changes
his subject, he goes okay, well,uh, tell me about the tiger
(30:58):
girl like yeah like I don'tthink at that point joffrey even
realizes that as king he canlike demand it to be back in the
small council like chamber,like where it's supposed to be.
He's just, he's like okay, okay,fine, you know.
And it's like what's about?
What's about danny, again,what's what?
That's how you really said um.
But I think it's reallyinteresting that he, joffrey,
(31:20):
like at this point, when theytalk about daenerys, he kind of
it consists that she's a threatand taiwan kind of dismisses it.
Um, so it's a rare moment wherejoffrey's right about something
and taiwan isn't um, and I justthink that's also fascinating
to see, because if joffrey, ifthey follow joffrey's like uh,
command, I guess, and they lethim make a decision, then and
(31:40):
there then danny probably wouldjust like her story would have
ended much sooner.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah, we often dismiss him for his foolishness
and recklessness, but he's oneof the first to recognize that
Daenerys is a genuine threat andher dragons Like.
Well, what are these dragonsthat made the world heal back
then?
They might not grow, you mightbe right, but what if they
become larger?
(32:05):
Instead of taking them out asbabies or little kids, we can't
wait until four more seasons,grandfather?
Yeah, exactly, it's a tragicirony.
I think also, he may be askingthe right questions, but he's
already been sidelined by Taiwan.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Taiwan doesn't see him as a ruler, only a liability
.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yes, exactly, and you mentioned something earlier too
about like it shows that Taiwanis like the real person in
charge.
You said something along thoselines and there's something
actually that is snuck in.
I don't know if it's me notunderstanding it correctly, but
to me it felt like there was abit of shade here and so much
(32:51):
that it's a bit of a long quote,but I wrote it down.
So when Joffrey asks what makesDany different than all the
other Targaryen conquerors,tywin says because we have been
told as such that they'reharmless by the many experts who
serve the realm, such thatthey're harmless by the many
experts who serve the realm bycounseling the king on matters
about which he knows nothing.
So in a weird way I was like hesays serve the realm by
counseling the king, and yet theking, the actual king joffrey,
(33:13):
has not been counseled.
So it's kind of like he'sweirdly referring to himself.
You know what I mean.
So they're counseling the king,aka me but then when he says on
matters about which he knowsnothing, it means Joffrey.
Yeah, I don't know.
That's kind of the way that Itook it, though it was referring
to two different people.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Yeah, because Joffrey responds.
Well, I haven't been counseled.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, so he's not the king, and exactly so.
I thought it was very clever Ifthat's me reading between the
lines and getting it correctly,so I like that.
And something that I foundfascinating actually was that
this is like the first properscene we get between Joffrey and
Tywin.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Yeah, I don't think they really had a scene.
I think they had a scene in thefinale of season two when he's
presenting Tywin with this awardor ribbon, for saving the city.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Yeah, so we got some great scenes from our characters
in King's Landing, this episodeand we got like a mini scene
close to King's Landing On aboat passing by the keep.
But on their way to Dragonstoneis Melisandre and Gendry.
We saw her recently take Gendryfrom the Blood Without Banners
because she needs, like royalblood to do whatever she needs
(34:19):
to do.
Right, soendry is with her andthat votes on making their way
back to stannis.
Like melisandre looks at thewreckage of blackwater bay and
the battle and she's like Ishould have been here, should
have been this battle, becauseshe thinks that she would have
won the city for stannis.
And gendry is kind of upset.
He's like I'm here where I'm,where I started.
You know king's landing, thisis my back, my being is like I.
I ran away and now I'm here.
(34:40):
But then they had a conversationabout Gendry's backstory, where
he's from his origins.
Melisandre was like do youwonder why you're so strong?
Then she points at the rightkey pen.
She was like that's where yourfather's from, that's whose son
you are, that's why you're sostrong.
You're the son of King RobertBaratheon.
So Gendry finds out who hisfather is for the first time.
(35:00):
So it's an important scenebecause he kind of like pushed
that idea away.
We see it in this episode andthis conversation as well.
He like doesn't like thinkabout this all the time.
He's like I don't have a father, whatever, whatever.
But it changes something in himlike slightly.
You know, I think that's it.
I kind of forgot how Gendry isafter this move on to the
(35:28):
riverlands, because there'ssomeone very upset over gendry
leaving her and that's aria.
Um, she's still angry at thebrotherhood and causing traitors
for giving him up.
And she's even more upset atthem when they kind of want to
take a detour because they're ontheir way to riverrun right to
reunite aria with her family,but then they discover that
there's a lannister party, umnearby and they kind of want to
raid that and and and shed somelannister blood or like shed
(35:50):
some lion blood I think that'swhat they said and she gets
really upset and she storms outand like kind of escapes, but
then unfortunately she getskidnapped by the hound, so not
in a good situation for her tobe in.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I think Arya has her coldest, awesomest line in the
season.
They ask her who her god is.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
And she says death.
I think we're going to move onto Rob and I think this scene is
vital because it kind ofhighlights or underscores,
however you say it, the tragedyof Rob's character.
He's trying to live honorablyand lovingly in a world that
punishes both.
He broke the marriage pact, aswe know at House Frey, and I
(36:34):
think that this scene isromantic in a way.
We kind of see a lot of fleshhere in this scene from both,
but it's kind of a funny thing.
He says says I can'tconcentrate where you're just
laying there, like he shouldhave said just cover up.
Uh, it's.
It's like we're watching a kingretreat into a love story and
(36:57):
but the world, the world aroundhim, is collapsing.
Like his heart is in the rightplace, but in Westeros that's
the most dangerous place for itto be.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
That's true, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
My heart is starting to break because I know we're
getting closer and closer toepisode 9.
And seeing that now how hereacted to finding out that he's
going to become a father, andnow you're more emotionally
attached to rob and you want tomake sure, as a first-time
viewer, you want to make surethat everything's okay,
(37:31):
everything goes well and it'sjust man, this is going to be
rough.
And then we kind of get alittle moment of talisa writing
a letter to her mother andvalentis, and she's writing in
valerian, rob, does the clichesay hello to your mother?
Yeah, but what I was gonna askyou is that is she really
(37:54):
corresponding with her family?
Is it innocent, or is it aplant for something, which I
don't know?
If it is, because why was sheend up dead?
exactly like if she would havedisappeared all of a sudden and
she didn't die, then maybe I Ithought that was funny that
somebody thought of that likewho is she writing?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
yeah, I saw actually someone say that, um, like she
could be a spy, like a lannisterspy, that that's like kind of
helped the red wedding like setin motion.
I don't, I don't, it doesn'tmake total sense to me because,
like why you know what I mean Idon't know like was she a spy
this whole time?
And then like could she havebeen working for someone else?
Like I think it's, it's an okaytheory, but I think it might
(38:33):
just be a show theory.
Obviously, because in the bookshe's she's a noble woman.
He doesn't just marry some,some woman from from essos that
like no one approves of.
He like obviously everyone'ssurprised by his marriage, but
she's someone that's like knownfrom, from a reputable house and
stuff.
So for that reason and georgewriting this episode, I wouldn't
really give much to this theory, just because george wrote both
(38:55):
in in the novels.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
His wife is jane westerling and she's she's not
pregnant at anmy's wedding and Iforgot.
There is a scene prior to thisabout the upcoming wedding and
how there's a delay.
I guess there's a storm andWaldo Frey's going to take this
as a slight and Edmure's like hecan wait.
He's so entitled.
He comes out very cocky.
(39:20):
In this episode Catelyn says,well, she wasn't expecting
Edmure, she was expecting a king.
He was expecting a king tomarry his daughter, not you
expecting a king.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
He was expecting a king to marry his daughter, not
you, okay.
So we talked about everyone inWesteros so far, except for the
storyline that this episode isnamed after, the most important
part of this episode, a verymemorable scene.
But before we get to that,let's just talk about the
storyline in general.
And that's Jaime and Brienne inHarrenhal.
So Jaime's officially leaving.
That's the audio that we hearat the beginning of this episode
, and it's kind of aheartbreaking moment because
(39:53):
Brianne kind of tells him likedo you know what they'll do to
me?
And then he's like, yeah,you're going to be here, you're
going to stay here.
And then she's like with Lockeand everything that like all the
fear can kind of just beunderstood in those two, two
words.
You know, because we knowthat's what.
We know what doc wants to do toher.
We we don't trust brian withthat person, with any, with
(40:14):
anyone from that camp.
So we immediately feel soconcerned for her.
Jamie as well.
We see that noble side of briancoming through and overpowering
everything else and justtelling jamie you know, like,
consider the debt, the debtspaid, the debts of your life
paid, as long as you promise methat you'll return catelyn's
daughters to her.
And you, you kind of trust thatjamie is not just saying that,
(40:36):
you know and brian as well,because he's very sincere in his
thanks for her because she didsave his life, you know.
So it's like a very authenticmoment.
I don't know that to get anotherone of that moments from those
two characters.
And that's just before heleaves and then we actually see
him leave.
So he leaves for a little bitwith Qyburn.
Basically Qyburn isaccompanying him because he's
(40:57):
there to treat Jaime's hand orlike cut off arm up until they
get to King's Landing and healso kind of wants to be
restored as a maester again.
Of course we know from previousepisodes and this episode that
he wasn't because he wasexperimenting on people.
So he was kind of like kickedout of being a maester.
(41:18):
So he's a shady guy, um, andjamie like feels kind of
disgusted at skyburn, yeah,which is an interesting reaction
from him.
Because again I feel like thisjam Jamie that we see in this
episode and with the BrienneSterling, it's like the, the
inner Jamie, the good Jamie, youknow, like the, his core and
the, the season one, jamiewouldn't have cared and would
have just brushed it off orsomething that's like the.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
The ethical side of Jamie's is is at the
forefrontton, is still there andhe says, oh, I have to go to a
wedding.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
And Jaime says well, I'm sorry I can't attend Lord
Enmure's wedding, but tell themthe Lannisters send their
regards.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
And that's the line.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
I didn't catch it.
I know I did not catch it, yougave me kind of chills.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, the audio that we started the episode with is
really devastating, becauseBrienne is so noble and so
honorable that she's acceptingher fate.
She knows she's dying, but shejust wants to hear him say that
she'll, he'll do this.
She says goodbye, sir jamie,and he does not respond and it
(42:36):
kind of felt weird, but I thinkhe's ashamed.
Saying goodbye would meanconfronting the failure to
protect her and he can't facethat.
So he leaves without saying aword, possibly maybe trying to
like emotionally detach himselffrom her, like I don't want to
have to do so.
He's being, um, like rusebolton's man is escorting him
(43:02):
back to king's landing that'sthe word I was trying to think.
And then, um, he hears that heasked kyburn, when you were
sending ravens, did you send anyto Brienne's father or to Tarth
?
And he goes yeah, I sent manyand we got a response from her
(43:22):
dad.
I forgot her dad's name, lord,whatever, tarth.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Selwyn Tarth.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Selwyn, yeah, selwyn, tarth, selwyn, yeah.
So he, selwyn, selwyn, tarth,sorry.
He responds and saying I'mgoing to give you 300 pieces of
gold or whatever.
And Jaime says, oh, that's agreat deal.
And he goes well, they didn'taccept it Because Locke wants
all the sapphires in the island.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Like his unintentional white lie.
He told to save brienne and nowthat is coming back to bite him
and now it's going to get herkilled.
So he demands to go back.
So what's?
What happens is that he broughtor he gives the guy ultimatum,
say you can either escort me toking's landing and I'll tell
(44:08):
them, my father, that you cut myhand off, or I'll say that you
saved me, and then they go back.
And then we get to the scene ofwhen she's fighting an actual
bear again.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
This is the new jb.
The old jb would have neverlike rewrapped to this entire
entourage and be like I'm gonna,we're gonna, go save my friend.
Um, he wouldn't have cared aswell.
Um, yeah, so I, I really likethat he did that.
It was the noble good jamiecoming through, um.
But yeah, back to the bear.
Kind of insane, uh, like a bigspectacle for game of thrones,
very weird like imagery that Ithink he probably wouldn't have
(44:44):
guessed george would include inhis world.
You know, you would think it'sjust gonna be be like a sword
fight, but no, it's somethingreally scary.
Funnily enough, it's likethat's a modern debate of like
who would you trust a woman witha bear or a man?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
You know, it feels like we feel that Brienne is at
least it feels like it's verydangerous.
But Brienne is likely in saferhands with the bear than she is
with Locke.
So just to bring that backaround but yeah, the bear in the
maiden fair is also a song inWesteros and they're kind of
singing it to her as she's likefighting this bear and like to
(45:20):
mock her.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Fighting an actual live bear.
It's not CGI and it's calledBart the Bear.
And this is the only time Ithink they actually did a scene
in the United States.
They flew Nikolai and GwendolynChristie to Los Angeles to film
this.
They just filmed like theyrecreated, like the pit, but
(45:43):
there's shots of everybody youknow cheering and whatever.
That's back in the full set innorthern ireland.
Uh, so I think what grinlinsaid, that she did all her own
stunts in the pit.
Well, the only time there was astunt woman is when the bear
like slashes her face or hitsher face.
So it's just a different person.
But I think that was prettycool and it's different.
(46:05):
In the book, if you remember,she does fight the bear, but
jamie is not there Jumping intothat pit.
This is the first time sincewe've met Jamie that he acts
purely out of selfless honor.
There's nothing to gain here,there's no political advantage,
no command from his family.
His motivation is simple he'sgoing to refuse to let someone
(46:27):
he respects die a humiliatingdeath when he has the power to
stop it.
And this is when the arc isalmost complete of him from that
first episode pushing Bran outof the window.
So Jaime jumping into the pitwasn't just a rescue.
Remember how we talked abouthe's becoming a new man.
This is like his rebirth.
(46:48):
Now he's no longer theKingslayer In Saving Brienne.
He begins his journey intobeing a true knight.
In my opinion, even if theworld will never call him that,
we see him now as a true knightand somebody we want to root for
in the future.
All right, so scene of theepisode for you.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
Honestly, the scene of the episode.
For me it might be Jamie Brandand the bear, but I think it has
to be Joffrey and Tywin too.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Yes, I want to concur and say that is my favorite
scene.
The other ones were good, butit's just.
Charles Dance and Jack Gleesondo a wonderful job.
Alright, let's rate Season 3,episode seven the Bear and the
Maiden Fair.
Manoah, what do you have out of10?
I think this one is like an 8.6or 8.7.
(47:38):
I think on IMDb.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Pretty high actually.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
I think I'd give it an 8.5.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
That scene with Tywin and Joffrey alone is worth a
lot of points, so I'm going todo the same boring 8.5.
I'm saving my high scores forthe next three and with that,
that is a wrap on our deep diveinto the Game of Thrones, season
3, episode 7, the bear, themaiden fair.
Thanks so much for listening.
If you enjoyed the discussion,don't forget to follow, rate and
(48:10):
share the podcast.
It really helps out and we wantto hear from you.
Let us know your favoritemoments or theories by reaching
out to us on social media.
Slash instagram, because weonly have instagram now, dancing
with underscore dragons.
For our next podcast, we'll betackling season 3, episode 8 of
game of thrones, second Sons,where we'll be heading back to
(48:31):
Dragonstone checking in withArya and getting a front row
seat to a very unexpectedwedding night.
You won't want to miss it.
See you next time and peace out.
I thought you were gone Tomorrow.
Have they told you what theyplan to do with me?
Lord Bolton's travellingtomorrow as well.
He's going to the Twins forEdmure Tully's wedding.
You're to remain here WithLocke.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I owe you a debt.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
When Catelyn Stark released you, we both made a
promise to her.
Now it's your promise.
You gave your word, keep it andconsider the debt paid.
I will return the Stark Ghostto the Mother.
I swear it.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Goodbye, sir Jaime.
Hello and welcome to Dancingwith Dragons, your go-to podcast
for everything related to Gameof Thrones, house of the Dragon
and the rest of George RRMartin's Song of Ice and Fire
(01:28):
universe.
My name is Manoa and I'm herewith my co-host, tony, and today
we're continuing our journeythrough Season 3 of Game of
Thrones with a deep dive intoEpisode 7.
If you listened to our lastepisode, we finally returned to
our recaps after a bit of anunintentional hiatus as life
caught up with the both of us,but it's so good to be back.
Today we're covering the Bearand the Maiden Fair, episode 7.
It's named after a popular songin Westeros, but here, of
(01:49):
course, it refers to a hugescene in the story featuring
Bran of Tarth.
This episode premiered on May12th 2013.
It's written by George RRMartin himself, so you know it's
going to be dialogue, heavy andweird, and it was directed by
Michelle McLaren, who you mightrecognize from her excellent
work on Breaking Bad.
She would also go on to directepisode 8 of this season, second
Sons and episodes 4 and 5 ofseason 4 of Game of Thrones.
Just going to give you a quickrefresher as to what happened in
(02:12):
this episode so we're able todive into our recap and have you
all caught up.
In this one we see Jon andYgritte share some tender and
tense moments.
South of the Wall, robb andTalissa talk legacy.
Sansa learns yet again that herlife is not hers to control and
nearest lays down the termswith yun kai.
I mean, I'm so glad to seedanny again this episode.
We didn't see her in the lastone.
(02:32):
I kind of want to just jumpright into it and talk about her
, if you would let me, tony, butI have to ask you first how are
you and I'm ready to talk aboutthe episode and danny- yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
So let's, let's go, let's start with your girl.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, my girl.
So here we get a veryinteresting scene with Dani.
She's going to Yunkai, which isanother slaver city, and you
know she continues her crusadeto free all of the enslaved
cities and slavers in Yunkai andshe's meeting with the Yunkai
representative.
It's a very interesting scenefor Dani, as I said, because she
comes off as very confident.
I think you know we see her inher first kind of political
(03:07):
meeting.
I guess since she acquired theAnsar Eden.
She felt like that young Danifrom the books, because we do
get the sense, you know, we feelin the books that she's younger
than she feels like on the show.
And that's the kind of Danithat I got in this scene,
because she's very intimidatingbut very young.
And you can kind of see theYunkai representative I think
his name was Razdel Mo'iraz.
We see it in his eyes too,where he doesn't really take her
(03:29):
seriously, but then he's alsoreally scared of her dragon.
So he is intimidated, eventhough he kind of doesn't want
to admit it, because she's softbut assertive and sure of
herself in this scene and theyhave like an exchange of offers.
You know she obviously wants tocontinue like freeing the
slaves and they're, just likeyou know, like please leave us
alone, that's it.
Honestly, if I have to likekind of maybe criticize daniel
(03:52):
would be a bit objective thatthat's not a bad option for her
if she did that honestly justbecause, we know that slaver's
bay would have.
You know, it's like it ends upbeing enslaved again.
I don't, I don't think anyonerealizes at this point.
Jorah maybe kind of does, buthe doesn't really give her the
best advice, doesn't put it intothe best words.
He kind of tried to advise herearlier on, but then she makes a
counter offer and she says thatshe'll spare the lives of the
(04:15):
slave masters if every slave isset free and is like given fair
treatment.
And then he, he kind of looksat her and he goes you are mad.
And I, I kept like an angrylittle doodle of an ex to it
because it's like now they'regoing to be like, oh, this is
the seed of her being a madqueen and everything, but it's
like no, she came from a verypure place here.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Do you think that these people know the history of
the Targaryens and about herfather, or are they just
learning this right now?
Or they're just learning thisright now?
The one thing I noticed aboutAstapor or, I'm sorry, not
Astapor Yunkai is that it seemsvery much more sophisticated
than Astapor, Like they have.
(04:56):
He mentions he has rich andpowerful friends and, you know,
trying to intimidate back whileshe was intimidating him.
For me, this scene is greatbecause she's no longer just
reacting, she's dictating termsyeah she's not waiting to be
told, she's just there and youfeel the balance of power has
shifted and she kind of knows it.
And this meeting showsincreasingly comfortable and
(05:17):
wielding authority, withoutasking anybody, without apology,
and jorah's there just to.
He's not giving her anyconcrete advice in my opinion,
and it's just like he's to me.
He's being ignored and he's nothelpful at all, In contrast to
Berenson, whose presence is justlike a bodyguard but he still
(05:38):
feels justified being there.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, and there's a moment with Berenson here that I
love.
This is, I feel, like a trueDanny moment.
Jorah, kind of it's unknowinglyjorah and says the yunkish are
proud people, they will notspend.
And then danny just looks atthem and says and what happens
to things that don't spend?
And jorah just has the like,the worst look on his face while
sir baristan tell me chucklesand winks, like it's a very
(06:00):
blink and you miss it moment.
It's so subtle and I love itbecause you just see how sir
bernstein like is so proud ofher.
He sees what I see.
You know he's not just likethis I don't know clueless
advisor or anything.
He he's.
He has affection for her in away that's not creepy like a
chore.
You know what I mean.
It's like oh, I love bernsteinsalmi and danny and I wish that
he was in the show longer, but II don't want to go down that.
(06:23):
Once I start talking about that, I won't stop.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
No, what also comes out on this scene is that she
has a calm confidence.
She accepts the gold and thendismisses the envoy without
hesitation, like no, that's mine, you gave it to me, it's a gift
and I'm going to use it for thegreater good.
And it makes her feel like herdominance feels effortless, yeah
(06:50):
, earned.
How she doesn't accept thegifts unless you know all 200
000 slaves are freed.
It's a bold demand and it'slike a line in the sand, but
she's not willing, no longerwilling to play politics with
slavers like she has no patiencewith them, and she's making it
clear like reform or face mywrath I love that.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
She's, as you said, so calm and I think I said this
before but she's so like,soft-spoken, while being that
assertive, you know.
So I think that that's kind ofwhat maybe the yung kai people
are, maybe I don't know.
It's always felt like they werea bit more like they were just
very direct and tough.
You know, they weren'tsoft-spoken, they were
soft-spoken, they weremanipulative in the way that
that guy was from Qarth I forgothis name Zaro Zandoxos, you
(07:36):
know like he was soft-spoken butmanipulative.
But Dani is like she's notplaying games and she's soft and
she's like presenting herselfas like, also so womanly.
So that's why I think maybethey're not accepting it,
because you know they're not,you know they're like no one
westeros or essos is like thatprogressive, I guess.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
But um, and and also when we think about her, like if
she were to accept the offer,like the story wasn't ready for
her to go to westeros.
Those dragons are not ready.
She's not ready.
8000 Unsullied soldiers is notenough to reconquer or conquer
Westeros and have people bend toyour will because they're going
(08:12):
to see okay, you have threedragons, well, we could just
kill them.
A few of us soldiers will die,but we'll figure out a way to
trap them And're not largeenough.
So I think it wasn't ready forher.
Unfortunately, we'll haveanother close to three, yeah,
three seasons of her inessos,but at this point it would have
(08:33):
been silly for her to go towesteros yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
I mean, even though I said in the beginning that
night sight, maybe it wouldn'thave been a bad choice if she
took it.
I mean, obviously it's not theright time, but it's just that,
knowing what we know about theslavers, actually I'm going to
make this point, I'm going toretract what I said because
knowing, I was going to sayknowing what we know about the
slavers uh, bay, like journey,it's true that you can argue
(08:58):
that it didn't really do muchbecause they just ended up being
enslaved again.
I actually like came to realizequickly that like, okay, she
just didn't do much but at thesame time, she saved so many
people in the time that she hadinfluence there.
You know what I mean.
It's true that they went back totheir ways, but she had an
impact and she saved some lives.
She changed people's liveswhile she was there.
(09:19):
So that's worth something.
So I'm going to say that mygirl was always right.
So that's worth something.
So I'm going to say that mygirl was always right.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
And who knows, maybe the influence of her leaving and
the idea of freedom stuck.
We don't know, because thestory stopped, so we don't
really know what happened inEssos.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
They were a bit early on in their journey and
couldn't really see the wayforward.
And there is another characterthat kind of has a similar
uncertain future or uncertainjourney in this episode that
kind of gets a tiny bitclarified, and that's someone
all the way in the north ofWesteros and that's Bran.
So in this episode we see Branand Jojen and their camp with
(09:58):
Meera and Osha and Hodor, stillin the north.
That's when they kind ofdiscover, I guess, or when osha
discovers, that mira andgeorgian intend to take bran
beyond the wall.
Um, I think that this is thefirst time it's kind of really
really made clear to ocean.
I think brand too I'm not sureif he knew before, um, that they
were going beyond the wall andI don't think that they even
(10:19):
know why yet.
So, like three-eyed raven, thatwhole thing, I don't think that
they know it.
So like, at least he has an enddestination in mind now, but he
still has no idea why, like whyhe's going where he's going.
And it's a kind of tough scenebecause you see, osha kind of
gets really passionate and shegives the backstory of seeing
her husband killed and thenturned into a white.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, it's not that much.
I think this is the first timein a few episodes that we
actually get some substance.
With Bran it was kind of thestory repeating oh, they're up
in the North, they're bickering,they're not really going
forward with the story.
At least this time they're likeokay, we have a plan now we're
going beyond the wall.
I go okay, because I was kindof it was losing steam a bit for
(11:02):
me, definitely.
Since we're getting these shortscenes and they're like well,
you could have cut that.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Someone else that's kind of struggling with their
plan up in the north is John, soobviously that their climb, his
climb with the Wildings, wassuccessful there south of the
wall.
But they're a week away fromCastle Black so it's still like
the attack is still in the works.
It's not like they immediatelydropped into Castle Black and an
attack started.
No, they're still a while awayand it shows how massive the
(11:30):
wall is.
You know that they started inthat position.
They didn't start anywhere wherethe Night's Watch members are
and we see kind of Aurel, theguy that tried to like chop the
rope or cut the rope and killJon and Ygritte.
We see both Jon and Y egretindividually have discussions
with him and they're kind oflike intimidating conversations.
(11:51):
I think for both um with johnit was not really a very
welcoming or pleasant one.
And um, john's like I saw you,you know you tried to, you tried
to kill me and then or I waslike, yeah, I tried to kill her
too, but she's not upset aboutyou, don't see her crying about.
It's just like the way thingsare like this is how it shows
you the wild thing.
Yeah, it's the wilding mentalityof being like we, we need to
(12:12):
cut out the extra weight, likeyou're just gonna be it, sorry,
you know, um.
And then when he has talk withthe egret, when oral talks egret
, he kind of says that he'sjealous of him and he goes which
I completely forgot about, umand he kind of does try to make
the point to you where it's likeoh, you know, he's not one of
us and stuff like that.
But uh, what I like is that hegoes, kind of it doesn't sway
her in any way, because eventhough you can kind of see maybe
(12:33):
something behind, like in hereyes, like maybe you go and see
her talk to john and they haveshare a very romantic moment
after that and they seem reallyhappy, at least for a little bit
.
Uh, it's a cute moment when,when she sees a windbill and
she's like, is that a palace?
Speaker 1 (12:47):
yeah, it is funny because she's like, she thought
that was like a castle, or yeah,like yeah it's funny yeah, and
it's cute and it's cute, but itturns serious really quick.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
You know um like it turns, I guess let me.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Let me add this audio of john here, because I think
it's one of his best scenes ofthe series.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Ingrid.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
You won't win.
I know your people are brave.
No one denies that.
No, you know nothing.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Six times in the last thousand years.
A king beyond the wallsattacked the kingdoms Six times.
They failed.
How do you know that?
Every boy in the north knows it,we grow up learning it.
You don't have the discipline,you don't have the training.
Your army is no army.
You don't know how to fighttogether.
You don't know that, I do, Iknow it.
(13:42):
If you attack the wall, you'lldie.
All of you, all of us.
It starts it out as romantic but, as you can hear from that
audio, it's got real, real fast.
(14:02):
Um, I think that's what you canhear.
It's obviously um, if you justlike rewind a little bit, you
can hear that when he's sayingthat they won't win, you can.
You can hear, like, the fearand concern in his voice because
he's saying this with care andI would still consider this as
someone's romantic moments,because someone that doesn't
care and doesn't love wouldn'thave said it that way.
You can tell that this issomeone who, whose feelings
(14:25):
completely changed about thewild things, um, after you know,
like meshing with them andeverything, like he he's, he's
scared for them, he doesn't wantthem to lose, genuinely, so
that's why he's telling themthat, um, and it's just, it's a,
it's a dilemma that he hasbecause, you know, yigrit kind
of doesn't like listen to himand says you know, know, like
all of us, not all of you, likeyou're a part of us.
(14:45):
You have to just believe in thismission and like this blind
loyalty kind of to man, and hecan't stand for that.
But at the same time, like he's, he's so heartbroken that this
is the their reality and heknows that they're going to lose
no matter what.
But it does end in like a cuteway because she tells him you're
mine as I am yours.
If we die, we'll die, but firstwe'll live and this is them
(15:06):
living.
The only you can argue that theonly time that John actually
kind of lived life was when hewas with Ygritte, because before
that he was like forgotten atWinterfell, and then after, when
he's you know Lord Commanderand everything, he kind of hates
his life.
It's kind of really boring andhe gets killed and then you know
like later on and he's nothappy in the later seasons
(15:26):
because it's a mess in general.
So like this is the only timewe see john actually living his
best life.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
So you know, what made it a great scene is that
she he cuts her off when she's.
She was about to say you knownothing, john snow yeah he
usually doesn't cut her off, heusually does.
He has a little funny thing shelikes to say and he probably
finds it cute now, but here he'sjust like.
I don't have time for you tofinish that.
I need to tell you what's goingon and I think it was just
(15:56):
wonderful.
And I've been waiting a longtime to see a well-written scene
for Jon and here it is.
And the last time George wrotean episode it was Blackwater and
it was just focusing onBlackwater, so we didn't have
Jon Snow in the episode.
And I think Ygritte's in herelement in this episode that
she's teasing Jon, she's pokingfun at how the South and their
(16:20):
manners and how their babiesthey need drummers, they need
for the, they need to for thearmies to to you know March.
And she's like so you have yoursoldiers and you have what are
the banner men do in the fight?
And they're like well, justhold a fly, just so you just
hold a flag, which I alwaysthought when I always see those
(16:43):
like historical movies.
You have the guys carrying theflags.
I'm like poor guys, they're justcollateral damage, they can't
fight with the flag.
Uh, she spots the windmill andshe just it's like she saw the
great pyramid.
Then we have her not knowingthe the meaning of swoon and
fate, which is all funny, youknow, just to endear us with
(17:04):
that relationship and with hershe's like the central country
girl going to the big city yeah,yeah, yeah, that's a good,
that's a good example.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, poor thing, I can't really imagine he goes
anywhere south of the wall.
Actually, she'd hate it.
Um, and I think that's it forjohn and brown.
But there's one more person inthe north who I don't really
like talking about, and that'stheon, and this is the episode.
This is like a tough one forhim, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (17:31):
yes, this is beyond breaking point.
I mean, he's been tortured tothe point where he doesn't even
that.
It's hard for him to trust anyanything anymore.
And then when he kind offinally gives in to the girls,
ram Ramsey shows up justrevealing another part of his
mind games.
I mean it's obviously one ofthe worst scenes.
Luckily they didn't show it hiscastration and with Ramsey
(17:56):
taunting him.
I think this is what he said.
He says this isn't happening toyou for a reason, it's just
happening.
It drives home that tortureisn't about punishment or
justice, about his sadisticpower and complete domination,
or dion.
And it feels bad because I Ithink you haven't gotten to this
point yet.
(18:16):
You read the third book, butall of this is from book five
fourth, oh, okay yeah, I thinkit's the fifth book.
This is a prime example of Gameof Thrones, or a brutal example
of how it portrays power.
So Ramsey doesn't want to killTheon, he wants to erase him.
(18:36):
And in this episode we begin tosee that Theon isn't being
tortured, he's being like,rewritten, like after this it's
not Theon anymore.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
That's a good.
That's a better way of puttingit.
He's being rewritten, that'strue.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Just a little trivia here.
In the DVD commentary, GeorgeRR Martin explains that he
didn't write any of the sceneswith Theon and Ramsay in this
episode.
The novel didn't state thatRamsay cut off Theon's generals,
though it was vaguely impliedthat he had.
And then there's another tidbithere is that Theon being
(19:16):
emasculated in this episode isforeshadowed in the season two
episode of man Without Honor, inwhich Theon says, quote I'm
looking at spending the rest ofmy life being treated like a
fool and a eunuch by my ownpeople, and I think we said
something about that line whenwe did our review of that
episode, about him saying eunuch, which was a foreshadowing of
(19:37):
what's to come.
Okay, let's move on to King'sLanding and Minhwa.
You can uncover your ears now.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Well, I'd be more than happy to, because the first
scene I think we get in thisepisode in King's Landing is
between Sansa and Margaery.
Right, and I love theirrelationship.
I love that they're likesisterly and I think we see that
in this episode more than anyother other.
Um, just because they have likea very personal talk, you know,
(20:05):
um Sansa's kind of, I guess,mourning her life, you know,
saying that she's being a bitharsh on herself.
She's saying, you know, I'm astupid little girl with stupid
dreams who never learns, andMarjorie comforts her, that's
what she spends her whole timedoing.
Um, it's true friendship and Ithink that no one ever did
anything like this for Sansa.
You know she, this is what shealways wanted in a sister, and
she never got that from Arya,she never got this kind of
treatment from Catelyn, so it'snot like she had like a mom,
that was like a sister either,you know.
(20:26):
So it's a very nice scene toget, because I think it fills
some void that Sansa like had atthe end, while also helping her
in her current dilemma, which Ithink Margaery does.
You know she, she kind of tellsSansa to see the brighter side
of marrying Tyrion and tries tolist as many pros as she can and
(20:48):
that does help.
We see her kind of calm down.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
I think it's a really good way to show the two
versions of womanhood inWesteros.
So Sansa's innocence versusMargaery's experience.
Margaery isn't just being nice.
She's subtly showing Sansa howto survive by embracing the game
instead of being manipulated ordestroyed by it.
(21:13):
And I think Margaery's theproduct of her grandmother, who
has showed her how to survive.
She's been trained to thinkseveral moves ahead.
She uses her beauty, how shecould be diplomatic and poised,
and she's trying to gently teachin a subtle way.
Teach Sansa, that this is howyou have to survive.
(21:35):
You have to adjust on what'shappening to your life.
Margaery is always playing thegame and Sansa doesn't realize
that even kindness in King'sLanding is sometimes iffy.
You put me in King's Landing.
I wouldn't trust anybody.
(21:57):
I'm so skeptical.
Something else is that thisepisode I think it's the second
time we see a reference toMarjorie, maybe not being a
virgin.
You know they're talkingMarjorie's talking about oh,
when my son is born.
Or you know, I'm going to teachhim the proper ways.
And then, when your son will bethe Lord of Casterly Rock and
(22:17):
the leader of the North, shegoes like my son, that means I
have to.
Yeah, sasa's like so sweet.
So did your mother teach youthat, or I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
It's just like sasa, you're so innocent I know, I
know, poor thing, that's what Iwas saying.
Like she, she needed a sister,you know, and she always kind of
wanted and needed this kind ofrelationship and in a weird way,
I don't know if she was evergoing to get it in the show if
not for marjorie.
You know what I'm saying,because if none of this happened
, if she wasn't in winterfell,then I don't really know how
(22:54):
catherine would have been.
I think she would have beenlike just a very stern mom that
like wasn't very like sisterlyand soft with her the way
Marjorie is, you know.
Like I think that this is, as Isaid, like it's something that
she needed and I like what yousaid about it like being the
different sides of womanhood,because I think that George
George's world shows manydifferent types of women in
different settings and how theydeal with their femininity and
(23:15):
their womanhood.
So you have, like someone likeAria, you know, you have
something like brienne, and thenyou have these girls, um, but I
think that's like it's sointeresting because kind of this
is how the girls within theirnobility, how the noble women
act like womanhood within theirnobility, because it's like what
they're expected to do.
And then you have like the rulebreaker versus the rule
(23:37):
follower, you know, and like theacceptable women that can fall
under these two categories,because, like, like Arya
wouldn't be consideredacceptable.
A rule breaker that'sacceptable is Margaery, whereas
the rule follower that'sacceptable is Sansa.
So I think that like this islike it kind of draws the
guidelines, I guess, for noblewomen.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
What I like about Margaery here is that she could
have made fun of Sansa after themother comment.
But she looks at her, takes apause, she goes yes, my sweet
child, or whatever she says mymother taught me.
And then they walk away.
Like she's trying her best there, but okay, well, let's move on
to Sansa's future husband,tyrion.
(24:16):
And it's funny because he'shaving a talk with Bronn and you
have it's a mirroringconversationn and you have it's.
It's a a mirroring conversationbetween you know, Sansa was
talking about I don't want tomarry or not, I don't want to,
but she's having trepidation andshe doesn't know what to do.
And then I think that Tyrionsees Sansa as a little girl.
He's feeling guilty as well,cause he you know like he, she's
(24:37):
a Stark doing this to herfamily, the way he treats her
throughout.
It's so good like sansa endingup marrying him was probably the
best thing that could havehappened to her in staying in
king's land, because he wouldhave protected her.
But braun is just like you know,just straightforward and just
do what you have to do.
You know she's beautiful andwhat are you talking about?
(25:00):
And then you have the the scenewith shay, who I just think
that she's upset she's gonna be,she's upset that she's gonna be
cast aside.
I feel bad to say this againbecause it seems like I'm
beating a dead horse, but theactress who plays shay, sabelle
kakil, I felt like she went backto the season one form.
It just throws me off becauseyou have maybe the best actor in
(25:23):
the show but not so experiencedactor, I'll say.
And it kind of throws off therhythm and I go, why do I have
to watch this Anyway?
So that's all I have to sayabout that.
I don't want to say an unkindword, all right.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, I think I have a bit to say about tyrian scene.
So first, with shay, I do thinkthat was a weak scene from her,
something I thought was like abit funny, but like a little
over the top a little bit funny.
No, no, it's not that.
It's that tyrian gives her agift and it's golden chains yeah
, yeah, yeah which is reallyfunny, and like tyrian, and she
(25:59):
also looks like.
She's like you give me, you'regiving me chains, uh, and and
you know, because she wasenslaved, and Tyrion's like oh
no, I like, no, it's jewelry, um.
So I thought that was funny.
But actually I liked this scenewith Bronn, uh, because it did
show, as you said, that he seesSansa as this little girl, and
Sansa I guess, but uh, she's ayoung girl, so.
So I liked seeing that side ofTyrion and think that I also
(26:22):
liked seeing that we see that hekind of doesn't have agency.
You know what I mean Either.
You know, we think that theLannisters are kind of
untouchable and everything, buthe can't do anything about it.
You know, we see that he's kindof being forced into it the
same way that she is.
But there's actually a quotehere that I really, really like.
(26:47):
And it comes from braun and hetells tyrian, because I don't
know, he said something.
Tyrian said something about, uh, the north won't accept him, or
something like that.
Yeah, and then uh, braun tellshim you waste time trying to get
people to love you, you'll endup the most popular dead man in
town.
And I just think that that's sogood.
It's such a george line.
All the people that kind of, uh,prioritized the people's love
ended up dying.
You know, like that, that wastheir main goal to get the
people on their side.
They were loved, yeah, but theydied quickly because that's all
(27:07):
that they kind of prioritizedversus like, okay, it holds a
lot of power, the people's love,without a doubt, holds an
immense amount of power, but thepeople that played into that
more than playing into anythingelse, they ended up dead.
You know, like the, likemarjorie, the tyrells, they
ended up dead, whereas thepeople that kind of didn't care
and just kept living their livesand maneuvering politically.
(27:27):
You know, tywin, uh, cersei,jamie, of course, cersei and
jamie and tywin did all die.
But I mean, I don't know, to meit just felt like it's wrong.
It's wrong, true, then whatwhat's brown said?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
because yeah I don't know it's one of those, uh,
crucial windows into tyrian'smoral compass.
Like, yeah, he's a lannister,but he's not like the rest.
Like marjorie said, he does.
He has he been unkind to you?
No, he treats you okay.
Well, she tries.
Tyrian doesn't want to be thatkind of man who takes advantage
of this young, scared and stillmourning her life kind of thing.
(28:04):
And with shay?
Let me go back to shay.
I think that the the way whyshe is getting upset is because
he's like I have to do this.
My family's, this is about myfamily, my family's making me
like they're not making you doanything, right, you don't have
to do it.
And she goes let's go.
Let's like again, we hearanother thing, let's go to eso,
so let's go to valantis.
Or, and he goes, let's go Again.
We hear another thing let's goto Essos, let's go to Volantis.
And he goes.
(28:24):
He says for what?
For me to juggle, to be alaughingstock over there?
That's what would happen.
They see a little man, they'regoing to make fun of him here.
He has the shield of theLannister name and he still has
some power.
So, and he still has some power, so I just thought that was a
funny line.
I'm going to juggle Now.
(28:45):
I really want to talk about oneof my favorite scenes so far of
the season, and that is withTywin and Joffrey when he visits
the throne room.
It's such a powerful visual anda statement about authority and
control from Taiwan.
His long and deliberate walkacross the hall is setting the
(29:09):
stage and, more importantly, theframing of Taiwan at the base
of the throne steps and thentowering over Joffrey, like the
way the camera hats off thecinematographer.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
I mean, it's clear again taiwan is the one truly in
charge yeah, jeffrey's tryingto intimidate taiwan, which is
like a very big challenge Idon't think anybody could take
and succeed at, except maybesomeone like even though that
didn't really work.
But again, then again, shedidn't really like try to
intimidate him, but she did,ended up making him feel
(29:40):
uncomfortable.
But anyways, back to the scene.
Um, yeah, so he tried to likeout macho or out intimidate
tywin, which of course he failedat.
Uh, and it falls flat becausejoffrey is joffrey and since
tywin is tywin, the roles areimmediately reversed, as you
said.
Um, and joffrey's likecomplaining about, like where
they they switch the smallcouncil meetings, because that
(30:00):
was something that theymentioned earlier that tywin
moved it from the like smallcouncil chamber to like the
tower of the hands was closer tohim and joffrey was kind of
whiny about it.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Um, and then no, he was kind of whining.
He goes.
Now I have to walk up all thosestairs you don't want to attend
the meeting and at that momenthe responds by not saying
anything at first.
He walks up the steps to gettaller and it's just kind of
another power play he goes.
(30:31):
Well, I can arrange to have youcarried.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I love that.
I love that.
That's classic Taiwan, it's theperfect line, it's so funny, it
landed so well.
And because even Joffrey likegets so embarrassed by it and
like, oh, I just I saidsomething really stupid and I
really embarrassed myselfbecause he like kind of moves
around his chair before movingon to the next point he changes
his subject, he goes okay, well,uh, tell me about the tiger
(30:58):
girl like yeah like I don'tthink at that point joffrey even
realizes that as king he canlike demand it to be back in the
small council like chamber,like where it's supposed to be.
He's just, he's like okay, okay,fine, you know.
And it's like what's about?
What's about danny, again,what's what?
That's how you really said um.
But I think it's reallyinteresting that he, joffrey,
(31:20):
like at this point, when theytalk about daenerys, he kind of
it consists that she's a threatand taiwan kind of dismisses it.
Um, so it's a rare moment wherejoffrey's right about something
and taiwan isn't um, and I justthink that's also fascinating
to see, because if joffrey, ifthey follow joffrey's like uh,
command, I guess, and they lethim make a decision, then and
(31:40):
there then danny probably wouldjust like her story would have
ended much sooner.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah, we often dismiss him for his foolishness
and recklessness, but he's oneof the first to recognize that
Daenerys is a genuine threat andher dragons Like.
Well, what are these dragonsthat made the world heal back
then?
They might not grow, you mightbe right, but what if they
become larger?
(32:05):
Instead of taking them out asbabies or little kids, we can't
wait until four more seasons,grandfather?
Yeah, exactly, it's a tragicirony.
I think also, he may be askingthe right questions, but he's
already been sidelined by Taiwan.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Taiwan doesn't see him as a ruler, only a liability
.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yes, exactly, and you mentioned something earlier too
about like it shows that Taiwanis like the real person in
charge.
You said something along thoselines and there's something
actually that is snuck in.
I don't know if it's me notunderstanding it correctly, but
to me it felt like there was abit of shade here and so much
(32:51):
that it's a bit of a long quote,but I wrote it down.
So when Joffrey asks what makesDany different than all the
other Targaryen conquerors,tywin says because we have been
told as such that they'reharmless by the many experts who
serve the realm, such thatthey're harmless by the many
experts who serve the realm bycounseling the king on matters
about which he knows nothing.
So in a weird way I was like hesays serve the realm by
counseling the king, and yet theking, the actual king joffrey,
(33:13):
has not been counseled.
So it's kind of like he'sweirdly referring to himself.
You know what I mean.
So they're counseling the king,aka me but then when he says on
matters about which he knowsnothing, it means Joffrey.
Yeah, I don't know.
That's kind of the way that Itook it, though it was referring
to two different people.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Yeah, because Joffrey responds.
Well, I haven't been counseled.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, so he's not the king, and exactly so.
I thought it was very clever Ifthat's me reading between the
lines and getting it correctly,so I like that.
And something that I foundfascinating actually was that
this is like the first properscene we get between Joffrey and
Tywin.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Yeah, I don't think they really had a scene.
I think they had a scene in thefinale of season two when he's
presenting Tywin with this awardor ribbon, for saving the city.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Yeah, so we got some great scenes from our characters
in King's Landing, this episodeand we got like a mini scene
close to King's Landing On aboat passing by the keep.
But on their way to Dragonstoneis Melisandre and Gendry.
We saw her recently take Gendryfrom the Blood Without Banners
because she needs, like royalblood to do whatever she needs
(34:19):
to do.
Right, soendry is with her andthat votes on making their way
back to stannis.
Like melisandre looks at thewreckage of blackwater bay and
the battle and she's like Ishould have been here, should
have been this battle, becauseshe thinks that she would have
won the city for stannis.
And gendry is kind of upset.
He's like I'm here where I'm,where I started.
You know king's landing, thisis my back, my being is like I.
I ran away and now I'm here.
(34:40):
But then they had a conversationabout Gendry's backstory, where
he's from his origins.
Melisandre was like do youwonder why you're so strong?
Then she points at the rightkey pen.
She was like that's where yourfather's from, that's whose son
you are, that's why you're sostrong.
You're the son of King RobertBaratheon.
So Gendry finds out who hisfather is for the first time.
(35:00):
So it's an important scenebecause he kind of like pushed
that idea away.
We see it in this episode andthis conversation as well.
He like doesn't like thinkabout this all the time.
He's like I don't have a father, whatever, whatever.
But it changes something in himlike slightly.
You know, I think that's it.
I kind of forgot how Gendry isafter this move on to the
(35:28):
riverlands, because there'ssomeone very upset over gendry
leaving her and that's aria.
Um, she's still angry at thebrotherhood and causing traitors
for giving him up.
And she's even more upset atthem when they kind of want to
take a detour because they're ontheir way to riverrun right to
reunite aria with her family,but then they discover that
there's a lannister party, umnearby and they kind of want to
raid that and and and shed somelannister blood or like shed
(35:50):
some lion blood I think that'swhat they said and she gets
really upset and she storms outand like kind of escapes, but
then unfortunately she getskidnapped by the hound, so not
in a good situation for her tobe in.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I think Arya has her coldest, awesomest line in the
season.
They ask her who her god is.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
And she says death.
I think we're going to move onto Rob and I think this scene is
vital because it kind ofhighlights or underscores,
however you say it, the tragedyof Rob's character.
He's trying to live honorablyand lovingly in a world that
punishes both.
He broke the marriage pact, aswe know at House Frey, and I
(36:34):
think that this scene isromantic in a way.
We kind of see a lot of fleshhere in this scene from both,
but it's kind of a funny thing.
He says says I can'tconcentrate where you're just
laying there, like he shouldhave said just cover up.
Uh, it's.
It's like we're watching a kingretreat into a love story and
(36:57):
but the world, the world aroundhim, is collapsing.
Like his heart is in the rightplace, but in Westeros that's
the most dangerous place for itto be.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
That's true, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
My heart is starting to break because I know we're
getting closer and closer toepisode 9.
And seeing that now how hereacted to finding out that he's
going to become a father, andnow you're more emotionally
attached to rob and you want tomake sure, as a first-time
viewer, you want to make surethat everything's okay,
(37:31):
everything goes well and it'sjust man, this is going to be
rough.
And then we kind of get alittle moment of talisa writing
a letter to her mother andvalentis, and she's writing in
valerian, rob, does the clichesay hello to your mother?
Yeah, but what I was gonna askyou is that is she really
(37:54):
corresponding with her family?
Is it innocent, or is it aplant for something, which I
don't know?
If it is, because why was sheend up dead?
exactly like if she would havedisappeared all of a sudden and
she didn't die, then maybe I Ithought that was funny that
somebody thought of that likewho is she writing?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
yeah, I saw actually someone say that, um, like she
could be a spy, like a lannisterspy, that that's like kind of
helped the red wedding like setin motion.
I don't, I don't, it doesn'tmake total sense to me because,
like why you know what I mean Idon't know like was she a spy
this whole time?
And then like could she havebeen working for someone else?
Like I think it's, it's an okaytheory, but I think it might
(38:33):
just be a show theory.
Obviously, because in the bookshe's she's a noble woman.
He doesn't just marry some,some woman from from essos that
like no one approves of.
He like obviously everyone'ssurprised by his marriage, but
she's someone that's like knownfrom, from a reputable house and
stuff.
So for that reason and georgewriting this episode, I wouldn't
really give much to this theory, just because george wrote both
(38:55):
in in the novels.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
His wife is jane westerling and she's she's not
pregnant at anmy's wedding and Iforgot.
There is a scene prior to thisabout the upcoming wedding and
how there's a delay.
I guess there's a storm andWaldo Frey's going to take this
as a slight and Edmure's like hecan wait.
He's so entitled.
He comes out very cocky.
(39:20):
In this episode Catelyn says,well, she wasn't expecting
Edmure, she was expecting a king.
He was expecting a king tomarry his daughter, not you
expecting a king.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
He was expecting a king to marry his daughter, not
you, okay.
So we talked about everyone inWesteros so far, except for the
storyline that this episode isnamed after, the most important
part of this episode, a verymemorable scene.
But before we get to that,let's just talk about the
storyline in general.
And that's Jaime and Brienne inHarrenhal.
So Jaime's officially leaving.
That's the audio that we hearat the beginning of this episode
, and it's kind of aheartbreaking moment because
(39:53):
Brianne kind of tells him likedo you know what they'll do to
me?
And then he's like, yeah,you're going to be here, you're
going to stay here.
And then she's like with Lockeand everything that like all the
fear can kind of just beunderstood in those two, two
words.
You know, because we knowthat's what.
We know what doc wants to do toher.
We we don't trust brian withthat person, with any, with
(40:14):
anyone from that camp.
So we immediately feel soconcerned for her.
Jamie as well.
We see that noble side of briancoming through and overpowering
everything else and justtelling jamie you know, like,
consider the debt, the debtspaid, the debts of your life
paid, as long as you promise methat you'll return catelyn's
daughters to her.
And you, you kind of trust thatjamie is not just saying that,
(40:36):
you know and brian as well,because he's very sincere in his
thanks for her because she didsave his life, you know.
So it's like a very authenticmoment.
I don't know that to get anotherone of that moments from those
two characters.
And that's just before heleaves and then we actually see
him leave.
So he leaves for a little bitwith Qyburn.
Basically Qyburn isaccompanying him because he's
(40:57):
there to treat Jaime's hand orlike cut off arm up until they
get to King's Landing and healso kind of wants to be
restored as a maester again.
Of course we know from previousepisodes and this episode that
he wasn't because he wasexperimenting on people.
So he was kind of like kickedout of being a maester.
(41:18):
So he's a shady guy, um, andjamie like feels kind of
disgusted at skyburn, yeah,which is an interesting reaction
from him.
Because again I feel like thisjam Jamie that we see in this
episode and with the BrienneSterling, it's like the, the
inner Jamie, the good Jamie, youknow, like the, his core and
the, the season one, jamiewouldn't have cared and would
have just brushed it off orsomething that's like the.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
The ethical side of Jamie's is is at the
forefrontton, is still there andhe says, oh, I have to go to a
wedding.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
And Jaime says well, I'm sorry I can't attend Lord
Enmure's wedding, but tell themthe Lannisters send their
regards.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
And that's the line.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
I didn't catch it.
I know I did not catch it, yougave me kind of chills.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah, the audio that we started the episode with is
really devastating, becauseBrienne is so noble and so
honorable that she's acceptingher fate.
She knows she's dying, but shejust wants to hear him say that
she'll, he'll do this.
She says goodbye, sir jamie,and he does not respond and it
(42:36):
kind of felt weird, but I thinkhe's ashamed.
Saying goodbye would meanconfronting the failure to
protect her and he can't facethat.
So he leaves without saying aword, possibly maybe trying to
like emotionally detach himselffrom her, like I don't want to
have to do so.
He's being, um, like rusebolton's man is escorting him
(43:02):
back to king's landing that'sthe word I was trying to think.
And then, um, he hears that heasked kyburn, when you were
sending ravens, did you send anyto Brienne's father or to Tarth
?
And he goes yeah, I sent manyand we got a response from her
(43:22):
dad.
I forgot her dad's name, lord,whatever, tarth.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Selwyn Tarth.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Selwyn, yeah, selwyn, tarth, selwyn, yeah.
So he, selwyn, selwyn, tarth,sorry.
He responds and saying I'mgoing to give you 300 pieces of
gold or whatever.
And Jaime says, oh, that's agreat deal.
And he goes well, they didn'taccept it Because Locke wants
all the sapphires in the island.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Like his unintentional white lie.
He told to save brienne and nowthat is coming back to bite him
and now it's going to get herkilled.
So he demands to go back.
So what's?
What happens is that he broughtor he gives the guy ultimatum,
say you can either escort me toking's landing and I'll tell
(44:08):
them, my father, that you cut myhand off, or I'll say that you
saved me, and then they go back.
And then we get to the scene ofwhen she's fighting an actual
bear again.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
This is the new jb.
The old jb would have neverlike rewrapped to this entire
entourage and be like I'm gonna,we're gonna, go save my friend.
Um, he wouldn't have cared aswell.
Um, yeah, so I, I really likethat he did that.
It was the noble good jamiecoming through, um.
But yeah, back to the bear.
Kind of insane, uh, like a bigspectacle for game of thrones,
very weird like imagery that Ithink he probably wouldn't have
(44:44):
guessed george would include inhis world.
You know, you would think it'sjust gonna be be like a sword
fight, but no, it's somethingreally scary.
Funnily enough, it's likethat's a modern debate of like
who would you trust a woman witha bear or a man?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
You know, it feels like we feel that Brienne is at
least it feels like it's verydangerous.
But Brienne is likely in saferhands with the bear than she is
with Locke.
So just to bring that backaround but yeah, the bear in the
maiden fair is also a song inWesteros and they're kind of
singing it to her as she's likefighting this bear and like to
(45:20):
mock her.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Fighting an actual live bear.
It's not CGI and it's calledBart the Bear.
And this is the only time Ithink they actually did a scene
in the United States.
They flew Nikolai and GwendolynChristie to Los Angeles to film
this.
They just filmed like theyrecreated, like the pit, but
(45:43):
there's shots of everybody youknow cheering and whatever.
That's back in the full set innorthern ireland.
Uh, so I think what grinlinsaid, that she did all her own
stunts in the pit.
Well, the only time there was astunt woman is when the bear
like slashes her face or hitsher face.
So it's just a different person.
But I think that was prettycool and it's different.
(46:05):
In the book, if you remember,she does fight the bear, but
jamie is not there Jumping intothat pit.
This is the first time sincewe've met Jamie that he acts
purely out of selfless honor.
There's nothing to gain here,there's no political advantage,
no command from his family.
His motivation is simple he'sgoing to refuse to let someone
(46:27):
he respects die a humiliatingdeath when he has the power to
stop it.
And this is when the arc isalmost complete of him from that
first episode pushing Bran outof the window.
So Jaime jumping into the pitwasn't just a rescue.
Remember how we talked abouthe's becoming a new man.
This is like his rebirth.
(46:48):
Now he's no longer theKingslayer In Saving Brienne.
He begins his journey intobeing a true knight.
In my opinion, even if theworld will never call him that,
we see him now as a true knightand somebody we want to root for
in the future.
All right, so scene of theepisode for you.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
Honestly, the scene of the episode.
For me it might be Jamie Brandand the bear, but I think it has
to be Joffrey and Tywin too.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Yes, I want to concur and say that is my favorite
scene.
The other ones were good, butit's just.
Charles Dance and Jack Gleesondo a wonderful job.
Alright, let's rate Season 3,episode seven the Bear and the
Maiden Fair.
Manoah, what do you have out of10?
I think this one is like an 8.6or 8.7.
(47:38):
I think on IMDb.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Pretty high actually.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
I think I'd give it an 8.5.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
That scene with Tywin and Joffrey alone is worth a
lot of points, so I'm going todo the same boring 8.5.
I'm saving my high scores forthe next three and with that,
that is a wrap on our deep diveinto the Game of Thrones, season
3, episode 7, the bear, themaiden fair.
Thanks so much for listening.
If you enjoyed the discussion,don't forget to follow, rate and
(48:10):
share the podcast.
It really helps out and we wantto hear from you.
Let us know your favoritemoments or theories by reaching
out to us on social media.
Slash instagram, because weonly have instagram now, dancing
with underscore dragons.
For our next podcast, we'll betackling season 3, episode 8 of
game of thrones, second Sons,where we'll be heading back to
(48:31):
Dragonstone checking in withArya and getting a front row
seat to a very unexpectedwedding night.
You won't want to miss it.
See you next time and peace out.
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