August 5, 2025 • 47 mins
We continue our Game of Thrones rewatch with Season 3 Episode 8, "Second Sons," examining royal weddings, surprising alliances, and Sam's groundbreaking discovery about White Walkers.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Will you fight for me ?
Swear to me, the Second Sonsare yours, and so is Daario
Naharis.
My sword is yours, my life isyours, my heart is yours.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hello and welcome to Dancing with Dragons, your go-to
podcast for everything relatedto Game of Thrones, house of the
Dragon and the rest of GeorgeRR Martin's A Song of Ice and
Fire universe.
My name is Minua and I'm herewith my co-host, tony, and in
this episode we're continuingour rewatch of Season 3 of Game
of Thrones and we'll bediscussing Episode 8, second
Sons.
Yes, the dreaded Red Wedding iscoming very, very soon, but
(01:00):
before we get to that and totoday's episode, we have some
Westerosi news we need to talkabout.
First and foremost, we havesome mini-updates on HBO's
Aegon's Conquest project.
Writer Matt Stomlin shared thatGeorge RR Martin will be
involved in the project.
Lots of writing has beencompleted and he's most excited
to see the opening scene come tolife on the show.
Matt Stomlin also posted onTwitter slash X Turning in
(01:24):
scripts feels good and he's likereferring to him turning into
HBO the script for Egon'sConquest.
So that pretty much confirmsthat update as well.
Tomlin previously wrote thescripts for the film Little Fish
and Project Power and he's aco-writer to the Batman Part 2
with director Matt Reeves.
Seems like it's in good hands.
I'm glad George is a part of it.
It's a good sign for now.
George hasn good sign for now.
(01:46):
George hasn't said anythingabout it.
In case you're wondering, um,the only thing that george has
updated us on is the fact thathe enjoyed the superman film,
the new apple tv series, murderbots, and he says that andrew
was this year's highlight forhim.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I'm sure tony would agree yes, and I'm very happy he
said that.
I applaud him.
It said that he's activelyinvolved.
We've heard that many times.
It's just yeah, it's not likeoh, oh, yay.
Like he loves the duncan show,like he said he loves it, it's
the best thing he did, um, soI'm excited for that.
But yeah, I mean he's activelyengaged, he's available, I guess
(02:17):
, for the lore consultation.
I'm excited for this show.
I mean we we've talked aboutmaybe we should we wanted some
other non-Targaryen media for abit and then go back to
Targaryen because we're going tohave House of the Dragon.
I thought that Aegon's Conquestwas going to be the second show
for Game of Thrones when theyfinish the main show.
(02:39):
It's going to be a tall task.
It's going to be weird becausein the book you know how.
It's not a POV book, it's justlike a historical textbook that
you know other writers arewriting and everything goes so
quickly.
You know you have Aegon comingto Westeros and then it'll say,
you know, 25 years later this ishappening.
(03:02):
So, they're going to have tofill all those slots.
And where are they going tostart?
Are they going to start when helands at Westeros?
Are they going to start whenhe's already going out as king?
Because there's much drama thathappens when he dies and the
sons come, and so it's going tobe interesting to see where the
actual story begins.
(03:23):
Yeah, it's going to be great tosee who they cast as Aegon and
Visenya and Rhaenys.
Visenya is for sure, because Iwant to see her wield Dark
Sister.
I want to see her on Vag, Iwant to see everything, because
she's going to be one of themost badass women we'll ever see
on screen.
So they need to make sure theyget the casting correct, and you
know who we want.
(03:46):
It's the one from vikings it wasfunny it's a show that I've
seen four episodes of, but Iknow she's the right person yeah
, I know I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
As someone that's seen like more than one season,
I'll tell you that I agree withyou I saw people say, oh well,
she's.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
This actress is too old.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Now I'm like so, yeah , so exactly that's a casting we
would like to see, but luckilyfor us, the westerosi new
segment that we have todayactually covers casting, uh for
house of the dragon.
Um.
So for house of the dragon,season three, two characters
have finally been cast um.
Firstly, charlie gordon hasbeen cast as prince darren
sargerian.
Um, darren is the fourth andyoungest child of king viserys
(04:22):
and alice inower.
He's a character we assumedthey'd cut out after he was
ignored for the entirety ofseason one, but they kept
mentioning him in season two, soit's clear that they were
actually including him, thankGod, since he's a key part of
the story and now he's finallybeen cast.
And another casting that we'realso glad isn't just like a
mystery character as well isthat of Alicent Blackwood.
The actress Annie shapira hasbeen cast as her.
(04:51):
Aliceane blackwood, also knownas black ally, was regarded as a
fierce and fearless woman withan indecent way of talking.
She's a skilled hunter, horsebreaker and archer in this show.
Technically she already wouldhave slash should have made an
appearance, because she does inlike a book event that we've
already seen on the show, whichis the battle of the burning
mill.
Um, we got to glimpse of thisin season two.
They showed the before andafter of the battle, but none of
it.
In the actual show, yeah, andin the books.
House Blackwood sided with TeamBlack.
(05:11):
However, the Blackwood'shereditary enemies, house
Bracken, supported the Greens,and during the Battle of the
Burning Mill, sir Amos Brackenslew Lord Samuel Blackwood in
single combat but diedimmediately afterwards when a
weirwood arrow was fired intothe eye slit of his head.
According to the Blackhorns,that arrow was shot by Alicene,
avenging her brother's death.
So that gives you a glimpse asto who she is and how really
(05:33):
epic she is as a character.
She will play a role in thecharacter's future.
I don't want to give too manybook spoilers away, so I'm just
going to say that yeah, that'sbig spoilers.
Yeah, but a part of her storyfor the books will also
definitely be changed, or willlikely be changed, considering
some of the other changes theshow on universe have made to
the original story.
But they made so many changesthat it seemed like they could
(05:54):
have gone as far as cutting herout.
I think we talked about that inour season two coverage of
house of the dragon.
We assumed that they'd justignore her, um, but I'm glad
that she actually makes anappearance and that's where
we're going to be getting herfor season 3 and she's not just
cut out.
She's there and she's actuallygoing to be in 5 out of the 8
episodes we're getting.
So I know that you feelstrongly about this character
and storyline, tony.
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Are you positive about it?
Well, you just gave me somefacts that I did not know, so I
didn't know.
I was thinking she was supposedto be in the Battle of the
Burning Mill.
She wasn't there.
So after that she doesn'treally reappear in the book
until way after some.
(06:35):
It's hard to say withoutspoiling, but I don't see how
she fits into the season unlessthey're going to be going really
quick with the story, which issomething that I wasn't
foreseeing.
I wasn't foreseeing her to beso heavily involved until, maybe
, season four.
So now I'm thinking, okay,where are we going to get the
(06:58):
big battle to open the seasonthree, obviously, but then are
we going to go like the to go?
The timeline shifts quicklyuntil you know what I mean Like.
So now I'm like thrown off abit.
I don't know what to think.
So, yeah, I was going to haveto think about that later, cause
now I'm just like, hmm, whereare we going to go here?
But anyway, I'm excited to seeher going to be in the show.
(07:20):
It would have been great to seeher in the battle.
Obviously, we didn't even getto see a battle, we just saw the
aftermath.
And yeah, we'll see whathappens.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Hopefully it works.
That's what I'll say.
I think we kind of shouldexpect the story to be a bit
fast-paced, because we're onlygetting two more seasons of
House of the Dragon and there'sstill a lot for them to cover.
We talked about it too.
Think that, um, we don't knowwhere or how house of the dragon
is exactly going to end.
You know, like we I think wetalked about that one of our
house of the dragon relatedepisodes where they we
(07:52):
speculated that there aredifferent moments where they
could just end the season at.
So, considering that, I thinkyou said something like oh, they
need a few episodes to cover,like after the, the typical
ending point, like the storywill end at a certain point, but
for the events that will happendirectly afterwards, that would
need a few more episodes too.
So I mean, considering all ofthat, we definitely need as many
(08:15):
episodes as possible, andthey're just like going to speed
yeah, we need to have a greatepilogue.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
We don't need a one page or like 30 minute or five
second montage of that greatchapter of the book.
You know which I want to see?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
And that brings us to the end of WestRossy News for
today.
We will be sharing theseupdates in our episodes if
there's anything relevant.
So stay tuned, you know,episode to episode, week to week
, because the more we get getthese updates, the more we'll
share them.
Um, but back to today's episode.
As I said, we're discussingepisode eight of season three,
titled second sons.
The episode first premiered onhbo on may 19th 2013.
(08:55):
It was written by david benioffand db weiss and it was directed
by michelle mclaren, whodirected the previous episode,
the baron maiden fair, as wellas two episodes in season four.
The title of the episode secondsons directly refers to the
previous episode, the BairdMaiden Fair, as well as two
episodes in season four.
The title of the episode SecondSons directly refers to the
Second Sons, the missionarycompany we meet in Essos.
In this episode, on a looserlevel, it also kind of deals
with the theme of Second Sons.
You know, tyrion is the secondson of Tywin.
We see Sandor Clegane, we sunwas.
(09:25):
It's treated like one.
We see sadness is also secondson, so there's that kind of
theme running through it in thisepisode.
Um, I think that there wereother episodes that dealt with
this theme better.
So for that I will say that thetitle likely solely refers to
the second sons, because it'snot really a thematic like it's
not really prevalent in thisepisode it's just a coincidence.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
It's just a coincidence, we have second sons
in there.
But yeah, it's just acoincidence that we have second
sons in there.
But yeah, it's not like alayered.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, no, it's not like the message or the core of
the episode.
We talked about that with otherepisodes in House of the Dragon
as well.
It's not a key point of theepisode, but it's still nice to
think about.
That's what happens in thisepisode.
First of all, a royal weddingtakes place in King's Landing.
Gendry arrives at Dragonstone,melisandre Stannis visits the
imprisoned Dava Seaworth, samwenand Gilly camp north of the
(10:08):
Wall and meet a dangerous foe,and Daenerys meets the mercenary
company of the Second Sonsbefore the walls of Yunkai.
So let's get started.
Where do you want to start?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
I think we should start with the beginning of the
episode.
Since it's so brief, we shouldjust start there.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, it's a brief and strong opening for the
episode as well.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I have a question from Caden underscore Crippen
regarding this opening scene.
He asked do you think Aryawould have killed the Hound if
he wasn't awake, or would sheshy away from killing him If
this was season seven, Arya?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Oh, that might change things.
No, I'm joking.
I honestly don't think that shewould have.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Uh, we can see that she's hesitant you know, I don't
think she was ready yet.
I don't think that rock wouldhave killed him anyway.
He's hard-headed, strong.
He probably would have beenlike woozy, but after that he
would have just killed her ornot.
I don't know if he would havekilled her, because he's not
that stupid.
I think he wants thatbargaining chip and he gives her
the little story about how hesaved her sister.
(11:11):
He's like your sister wouldhave been dead without me.
You know they were going to justtorture her, rape her, and I
saved her.
When he tells her the storythat he's going to take her to
the twins know, kiss her motherand brother there for a wedding
she lets out this tiniest grinlike oh yeah like she little
(11:31):
grin of happiness knowing thatshe's going to see her, her, her
family.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So I thought that was kind of cute it was and when
you think about it like I think.
Correct me if I'm wrong, butthis is the first time that aria
has actually heard of sansaf,like in a while yeah like she
hasn't heard of her sister atall.
So I think that that's like whatthe Hound says kind of reminds
her of Sansa in a way, because Idon't think that she was really
thinking about her all thistime.
So you do see it in like MaisieWilliams' eyes when Sansa's
(12:00):
brought up, like she's like ohright, sansa, and you can kind
of feel that she's concerned butalso in a way relieved.
But then I feel like thatquickly gets taken away because
she finds out that she's beingtaken to her family instead of
being taken to King's Landing.
So she's kind of forgets aboutSansa again very quickly because
she's happy at the idea ofmeeting or seeing her family
again.
But yeah, I do think that waskind of like a touching oh wait,
(12:23):
right, like she's, she doesn'tknow where sansa's at.
So that's where aria is at.
But you know, last time we sawaria, or like one of the
previous times with aria, shewas very devastated about gendry
not being there with her.
Um, so let's see where gendry isat, because he doesn't make an
appearance again in this episode.
Uh, he and minnesota finallyget to dragon stone, um, and she
takes him to Stannis andStannis immediately recognizes
(12:45):
him as Robert, which is like athing with Gendry.
I don't know, I think it's inthe show as well as the books,
but I think it was in the books,I can't remember.
But it's a thing with Gendrywhere he is supposedly like a
spitting image of a young Robertthat everybody is able to
recognize it and that's kind ofreferred to in this moment
because Stannis sees him andimmediately says half Robert,
half Leoborn.
It's just like an instant heinstantly recognizes that.
(13:08):
And it's kind of like a weirdmoment because Melisandre kind
of like convinces Stannis thatyou know, like we need to do
this and like prep him Like he'sjust like a sacrificial lamb
you need not show, you know,like the murder weapon and stuff
.
Let me pause on the Gendrystuff for a second and talk
about Stannis himself, becausehe makes an interesting change
or like takes an interestingstep in this episode.
(13:29):
After that, you know, when theytalk about what they need to do
with Gendry, which is to usehis blood and everything, he
kind of isn't so sure about theidea and goes to see Davos is
practicing reading from like akid's book that tells the story
of Aegon's conquest.
It's like a book that'sobviously given to him by
Shireen and it's so cute becausehe's like the Aegon and his
(13:52):
it's just it's so cute.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
It's kind of like Veigar and Visenya.
That's yeah, that's very cute.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
But yeah, stannis finally visits him and he's
imprisoned him for like no realreason, honestly, and then he
just looks at him, he's like oh,I'm finally saying sorry about
your son, which is when he saysthat you kind of realize it took
him that long.
To me I thought it was a veryfascinating scene that showed
their relationship, becauseDavos kind of wasn't really
(14:19):
resentful towards Stannis thatmuch.
He was kind of open to him in away.
He still recognized that that'shis leader towards Stannis,
that much, you know, he was likekind of open to him in a way.
He was.
He still recognized that that'shis leader, you know.
And when he kind of tellsStannis like why are you really
here?
Like you're here because youneed my advice, I knew that the
only, I'm the only one that'sgoing to actually give you the
advice and this is what it is,which is that I don't think that
this like sacrifice thing withGendry is worth it, because
(14:40):
Gendry's innocent and Randywasn't, and blah, blah, blah.
So it was like a veryinteresting scene.
And again, when Davos says thathe's kind of like he still gives
his real advice, which is thathe doesn't think that Stannis
should go through with this.
If he was bitter or thatresentful towards Stannis, he
would have russed up, he wouldhave probably put Stannis in a,
(15:02):
he would have set him up to failand would have told him
something else.
You know, I think that Davoswould be capable of something
like that if he had maliciousintentions.
But he doesn't and he actuallydoes respect Stannis.
So I thought such aninteresting scene where you can
see that underlying respect thatthey have for one another.
They both recognize it and thenthat's why I think Stannis
frees Davos in, because he knowsthat Teltuk doesn't have anyone
other than him.
(15:23):
He realizes that he was foolishto trap his, to imprison his
most honest advisor and the mostloyal person there to him.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Stannis just has yes-men surrounding him and he
needs somebody to put him incheck.
And I think Gendry was thefirst test for Stannis.
Is he willing to compromise hismorals for victory?
And that's why Davos figures itout right away.
He's not book learned learned,as they say, yeah, but he's
(15:53):
savvy and he's street smart.
He knows what's going on.
You know, stannis, he's not alike worshiper of the Lord of
the Light.
He follows it because he seesit as a tactical advantage.
He sees in the magic andvisions.
He sees that well.
Maybe this can help me.
He's not a zealot likeMelisandre or his wife.
(16:14):
He's just the king trying towin a war and he's willing to
use this divine power to do it.
And to me he came out verycallous.
This is just another personlike everybody dies sacrificing
gendry like so what?
At first you're like maybe hecould, davos could get silence
to rethink this, but then sizelike no, no, he has that total
(16:36):
vision.
Do you know?
This is an episode written bythe dnds, because there's a lot
of nudity and there's a lot ofskin shown here.
It seems like and for no reasonI'll talk about that yeah, it's
a daenerys, uh, which I thoughtwas kind of silly but yeah, um,
good scene.
I will say that the tortureused on gendry it's not really
(16:58):
that bad compared to keon.
I'm like, oh yeah, I have acouple leeches and I have this
beautiful woman on top of me fora few minutes and then I get
leeches.
I'm like I guess it's not thatbad compared to she can't
compare um yeah, yeah, I'm justthinking, like when it comes to
(17:18):
the torture we've seen in theshow, like that's not that bad,
you know, like she's not likepoking his eye with a hot stick
or anything, but yeah um, beforewe move on from stannis and co?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
um, I do want to say that you know when, when stannis
picks up the leeches and thenthrows them in the fire and says
the names, like the usurper,rob stark bait on great joy,
joffrey brathen you know,everybody listening to this has
watched the show before.
So I'm trying to say it'sinteresting, because Stannis
made a point earlier in theepisode when he talks to Davos
being like look, melisandre'sstuff, it works and it's legit
(17:50):
and stuff like that, and thenall those names that he says
they all end up dying reallysoon.
Like Robb Stark dies very, verysoon.
Berengera Joy and Joffrey Barwas very, I don't know.
It's like it was a good backupfor what stannis was saying.
And also, weirdly enough, didyou catch this?
Um, apparently, uh, davos.
Stannis said something aboutlike um, he's seen visions of a
(18:12):
great battle in the snow.
Yes, not so great.
I don't know what stannis.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
So I think or maybe he's talking about when he uh,
when he goes up there when hesurprised the wildlings probably
he took.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I'll give them that.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
He took over the Night's Watch or Castle Black.
He probably saw the battle withthe wildlings, which was not
really a battle at all Because,you know, they just ran over
those poor free folk.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, but did you know that for one of the shots
they actually used real leecheson the actor, on the actor, Joe
Dempsey?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah, that's what I said behind the scenes like
facts for this episode.
Okay, now that we're done witharia and stannis, those are like
two uh, kind of smaller plotpoints of this episode.
The rest of them are kind ofjuicier, I guess, and I'm always
having to talk about her oncewe go talk about dinners because
I miss her and I'm talkingabout her I don't mind talking
about her Testosterone-filledscene Meeting the second sons.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
What I like is that, yeah, these guys except Dario,
he doesn't come off as vulgar asMiro and you know Miro treats
her with outright contempt.
Despite all that, daenerysremains composed, calm and
dignified.
She's nodding her head and it'sjust a neutral face.
(19:30):
There's no happy, sad, anger,nothing.
She doesn't overreact, nor shedoesn't show any weakness, which
is politically savvy.
She does get a little peevewhen they leave and she's like,
yeah, well, you're going to killhim first, obviously, if it
comes to that, yeah, this isDany growing up also playing the
(19:51):
game.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
She knows that showing her emotions and her
anger won't work with these men.
She was that way in the pastand it's totally fine if she is
angry and shows it becausethey're obviously disrespecting
her.
But I think she knows, likeshe's learning how to, I guess,
maneuver and like play the gameand be like okay, this, my anger
, won't work in this situation.
I need to play it this way,even though she was really angry
(20:17):
.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
And she?
She doesn't threaten them atthe beginning.
She offers them a deal likejoin her and you could receive
gold.
In the show they say 2,000second sons, but in the book
there's like 500.
Sons, but in the book there'slike 500.
Actually, you know what, beforewe talk about the last scene
with daenerys the second sons,they have a little meeting and
they decide that they need.
They need to get rid of her.
(20:40):
They don't want to assassinateher.
Dario is picked to kill, butanyway, before dario shows up at
daenerys's tent disguised asunsullied, you have missandei
helping Daenerys bathe andthey're talking about how
Missandei speaks.
What?
19 languages or something likethat.
Yeah, and she starts talkingDothraki and in a
(21:11):
non-passive-aggressive way.
Missandei corrects her Dothrakiand Daenerys is like what Wait,
what she's trying to?
She reverts back to being abeginner and she doesn't know
the words.
I thought that was a coollittle scene.
It comes to the point when Italked about nudity and you have
Dario come in and his intentionwasn't to kill them.
Anyway, he wanted to joinDaenerys, but why do you think
(21:34):
she needed to stand up the tub?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Because, as you said, it's directed by D&D.
This is a dumb HBO thing whereall their actresses have to be
unclothed.
There was no need for it.
It was even before she standsup.
Like it was like right there,you know what I mean.
Like it was like the waterlevel wasn't high enough.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yeah, they just want to, they just want to there's no
bubbles in that, so they couldadd to the water.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I'm telling you, I'm telling you.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I'm like, oh, this is so season three, season six,
when she that episode and Ithink it was her, was it a body
double.
She's like I'm not doing anymore nudity, right, I think it
was after season six, but anyway, I thought it was kind of like
weird.
Like okay, I'm just standinghere, I'm supposed to be your
leader, why am I naked?
(22:24):
You should be naked, not me.
Anyway, we opened this episodewith Dario proclaiming his
loyalty, or you know, todaenerys.
We get to see, do we ever seehim again, this, this actor,
because, like I said, like I seehis face and I go, wow, he, he
would make a great villain inrings of power.
(22:45):
He has that you know, evil look, and or he will make elf, or he
will make a great targaryenwith the blonde or silver hair.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
He's in three episodes in season three.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Okay, so he will be in the next three, the next
episode nine and ten.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, Tony is team this actor.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
No, I'm just saying.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
And I'm team the next actor.
I think his name is Michelle orMichael Huisman.
So yeah, I'm team that guy,tony's team, this guy, this guy,
as I would not mind him in allthe other projects but for dario
, no sorry, I'm one of thosepeople that hate, uh, when I see
people go oh, this person, uh,like like all that discourse
(23:28):
with bella ramsey, oh, shedoesn't look like like Ellie.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
And I go well, you have a really good actress.
Do we care about the look?
Or we care about the actingability?
Like, what do we really careabout?
Do we want somebody who lookslike the the video game version
and sucks as an actor, or youknow what I mean?
Like so, and here I am goingwow, he's, he's perfect for this
and is he really a good actor?
(23:53):
But he will.
He'll be great at this.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Anyway, I'm a hypocrite yeah, um, I think
that's it for danny, though,right, like I can talk about her
forever, but like that's, uh,it's for him in this episode.
And I think we can move on to,um, king's landing and what's
going down there, because a bigevent is taking place in King's
Landing.
It's a royal wedding.
It's Tyrion and Sansa's wedding, and it's also one of the most
(24:17):
uncomfortable things that wehave to see in Game of Thrones.
So this is the scene that weget before the actual wedding,
where Tyrion and Sansa have adiscussion, I think one of their
only conversations that they'veever had on screen before.
I don't know if this is like oneof their first or I think
probably their second or thirdcompetition we've seen on screen
, because we have that oneconversation that they have had
in season two when Tyrion's kindof proud of Sansa, when Sansa
(24:39):
was like playing the game andbeing like she acted as though
she was supporting Joffrey, butTyrion could see right through
it and he's like a nice sweetkind of scene between them
because tyrian's just like, in away, he's like I'm sorry, you
know, like I'm sorry that thisis happening to you.
That's kind of like, indirectly,what he's telling her and, um,
(25:02):
he like he promises her andtries to make sure that you know
like I'll never hurt you,you're safe in my hands, and I
think that what he's telling herhere and that like um concern
that you can see in his, in hislines, is something that's uh
prevalent in tyrian's innermonologue, ever like in the
books, ever since he like thisplot point uh is brought up,
(25:23):
ever since it's brought up thattyrian is likely going to have
to marry sansa.
It's like it's mentionedcountless times that he feels
like kind of guilty, I don'tknow, or like he feels a certain
way about it, like it's not,it's not like we don't.
We get it once or twice.
Like I remember when I waslistening to the audiobook it
was like I don't know, liketyrian's thoughts on this we
also get in the previous episode, but uh, I just I don't know.
I like seeing it's vocalizeddirectly to sansa here as well,
(25:45):
because I felt like I was in hishead for a while in the box I
absolutely adore how tender andrespectful tyrian is towards
sansa.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
He's trying his best to make her feel comfortable in
this unwinnable situation forthe both of them.
He doesn't want to be there, hedoesn't want to do anything.
I mean, when they get to theroom, sansa looks like she's 14,
even though she's not 14, andthe hairdo they give her makes
her look even younger, likethat's a hairdo that you have
for a preteen or just a teen.
(26:16):
It shows that even in thisbrutal world, tyrian's decency
is something that shown and I Ireally like that he has his
tenderness towards her.
My father says I have toconsummate, but you know what
the way he says after is so good.
I won't repeat it here becauseyou know I have a lady in front
of me, uh.
(26:38):
But yeah, I will go back to thebeginning because we're not
talking about one another in thebedroom.
But peter dinklage is just theway he can.
He has that.
I.
I want to protect you face andI am here for you and I'm trying
my best to be respectful andand I'm I'm.
I'm not that I'm a lannister,but I'm not, I'm a lannister you
can trust.
(26:58):
Let me just say the last line,because she.
She just says he says I willnot share your bed until you ask
me to, right.
And she says what if I don'twant you to?
And he says so my watch begins.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Oh yeah, that was a nice, that was like funny.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Ease the tension.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
But yeah, I wanted to say something actually about
that beginning scene as well,the pre-wedding conversation.
It's like a kind of Easter eggIn that scene in her room before
the wedding.
You see a doll next to Sansa'smirror.
Yes, I don't know if you got'tknow, yeah yeah, it was the doll
that ned gave to her in seasonthree of episode one, um, and
(27:40):
she was, like, I'm too old toplay with dolls at that time, um
but now yeah, and now that Ifeel like we see it in that
episode and we see it now, oneepisode three and then season
three, episode eight, to meseeing that doll again, this one
before her wedding, kind ofbookends sansa's childhood or
like her girlhood, like that'sit.
Sansa's not a girl anymoreafter this, she's, she becomes a
woman and like that's kind ofsupposed to be.
(28:01):
Like, yeah, she becomes a womanbecause she's getting married,
but at the same time it's likeno, like this is where, like,
sansa's life will really changeand she's, I don't know, like
she's seen more as a woman afterthis point, you know, like
she's gonna she's seen that wayby the finger, even more so now,
and like by society, like she's, like that's it.
They.
They don't consider her a childanymore.
(28:22):
So I thought that was like abittersweet detail.
Um, and about the wedding itselfyou know you talked about it.
Um, it was kind of a hard watchfor me, like the wedding and
then the dinner party and evenafter, even though Tyrion was a
gentleman afterwards and youknow he didn't like force her
into anything, which I thoughtwas, you know, in line with his
character and as he, as heshould, you know he did the
(28:45):
right thing, said the rightthing.
The actual like dinner and thewedding was really hard.
Watch for me.
You know.
We have that moment withJoffrey taking down the stool
that Tyrion would have used toplace the cape over Sansa to
humiliate him and her.
And then you have the dinnerfeast when you have Joffrey
threatening Sansa, you haveTyrion being drunk and obviously
(29:08):
not wanting to be there.
You have the sadness in Sansa'seyes because this is someone
that's been dreaming of herwedding her entire life.
We see it in the season as well,you know, when she fantasizes
about doris, like you can seeall of that like um, like
fantasy that she has in her, inher mind, like you can see it on
sophie turner's performance,because I don't know you just
this is that's what sansa.
She's always talking aboutmarrying a nice, noble prince,
(29:30):
and you just see that this isn'tthe outcome for her, that that
she would have wanted, and youcan see that she's not happy and
she's humiliated as well.
But she's mature enough to like, know that she like to be, to
be the way that she is about it.
She's not like like she was,like she's a prisoner, basically
in this horse, and it won't doher any good to like protest or
or scream or, and she can't runaway at the same time, so she's
(29:53):
like acting like a real womanhere.
Um and uh, yeah, I just it waslike a hard.
It was a hard, hard watch forme.
And then you know he seestyrian acting overly drunk when,
uh, after, he threatens joffrey, and then they have to kind of
like ease the situation, youknow when joffrey's like oh, now
the bedding ceremony, and thenyeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
But before that I'm gonna say, before that you have
a moment where I don't know ifit was Cersei trying to shield
Sansa or just making sure thatJoffrey doesn't make a mess of
himself, because she just says,oh, why don't you spend time
with your bride-to-be?
Because she knew when he got upthat he was going to torture
Sansa or Tyrion.
(30:32):
Can you stop being a douchebagfor a second.
Stop having this gleefulnessand bringing discomfort or pain
or suffering to people.
Stop, just like, sit down andjust be normal for a second.
But we're all over the placewith this, because I want to go
back to before the wedding,because it's a great scene which
(30:56):
I'm just going to play for you.
I don't even care if it's aminute and 20 seconds.
It's Cersei.
We've talked about Cersei andMargaery a lot this season,
covering season three, howCersei is just biting her tongue
when it comes to Margaery.
Margaery is just so charmingand mother Cersei cannot deal
with her.
When it comes to MargaeryMargaery is this so charming and
mother Cersei cannot deal withher.
But here it's like she reachedthat boiling point.
(31:18):
That's it, the tea's ready orthe water's ready.
She goes.
They talk about the reigns ofCastamere, which is like okay
let's just listen to it becauseit's great.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
A better dancer than a singer, I'm afraid.
Oh, but you know the song, theReigns of Castamere.
Of course they play it so oftenhere at court.
So you know the story of HouseReign of Castamere Not as well
as you, I'm sure.
House Reign was a powerfulfamily, very wealthy, the second
wealthiest in Westeros.
Aren't the Tyrells the secondwealthiest family in Westeros.
(31:53):
Now, of course, ambitiousclimbers don't want to stop on
the second highest rung.
If only you could take thatfinal step.
You'd see further than all therest.
You'd be alone with nothing butblue sky above you.
So Lord Rhaen built a castle asgrand as Casterly Rock.
He gave his wife diamondslarger than any my mother ever
(32:15):
wore and finally, one day, herebelled against my father.
Do you know where House Raineis now Gone?
Gone, a gentle word, why notsay slaughtered Every man, woman
and child put to the sword.
(32:37):
I remember seeing their bodieshanging high above the gates of
Casterly Rock.
My father, let them rot upthere all summer.
It was a long summer, and nowthe rains we've owed their halls
and not a soul to hear.
If you ever call me sisteragain, I'll have you strangled
(33:02):
in your sleep.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Yeah, the best part about this scene is that the
whole time she's listening toCersei pretty much threatening
her and her family.
She's walking arm in arm andshe's looking out to the crowd
and nodding and smiling topeople looking at her, and then
she turns to Cersei and getsserious.
It's just great acting.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
It's such a great scene.
Honestly, I think it shows bothof their characters really well
.
You said that about Margaie andthen Cersei being like I'll
have you strangled in your sleep, but it's so funny.
And what I think adds to it is,you know, maw and Marjorie kind
of just turned and chatted andwas like we're going to be
sisters.
After that, when they werewalking down the stairs you see
(33:54):
Loras in the just want to jump alittle bit in the wedding
between him and cersei.
It's like 60 seconds not even.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
It was like he said three words.
He's like shut up and she justleft for something.
I don't want to hear it it wasgold.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
It was gold.
I love it.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
It was so funny that's just cersei, back to
herself like she's yeah she'snot dealing with it anymore.
She knows well, she knows thatshe's not going to marry this
guy.
I wanted to ask you a questionabout this scene.
I'm going to put the audio of Idon't know, just one more audio
of Tywin putting a stop to thebedding ceremony.
(34:28):
I just love Tywin Lannister.
I mean I love Charles Dance,not Tywin Lannister.
I just love Tywin Lannister.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I mean I love Charles Dance, not Tywin Lannister.
What did you say?
I believe we can dispense forthe bedding.
Your Grace, I'm sure Tyrion didnot mean to threaten the king.
A bad joke, your Grace, Madeout of envy of your own royal
(34:59):
manhood.
Mine is so small my poor wifewon't even know I'm there.
Your uncle is clearly quitedrunk.
Your Grace, I am guilty, but itis my wedding night.
My tiny drunk cock and I have ajob to do Come with.
(35:32):
I vomited on a girl once in themiddle of the act, not bad of
it, but I think honesty isimportant between a man and wife
, don't you agree?
come, I'll tell you all about it.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Put you in the mood hey, my question is to you.
We talked about Tywin youngTywin in our Mad King episode
and what he had to deal with inhis own wedding night with his
own wife sour?
Is that sour memory of thebedding ceremony that included
joanna, his wife, and the madking?
(36:07):
We don't know what happened,it's just rumors.
Do you think that is?
This is why he's like okay,we're done, we're not doing this
, or?
Is this, you know, is that anycorrelation or length?
Speaker 2 (36:17):
yeah, I mean, when I saw the scene as I said, it's
been a while since I've seenthis episode.
I don't really remember it,that's what.
So when I saw him refuse, I waslike, oh wait, yeah, I feel
like there's a, there's like aanother reason for that.
Like you don't see tyrian sorry, we don't see Tywin defending
Tyrion normally, and I don'tthink that he's doing that.
He wouldn't do that for Tyrionor Sansa.
(36:39):
He could do it to save face infront of all those people, but
at the same time, he would havefound a different way if it
didn't hit close to home for him.
It was a bit too much, I think,for Tywin.
It definitely brought back thememory of what happened to tywin
, um, during his his wedding.
(37:00):
So, yeah, a few, and if youdon't know what we're talking
about, like, we gave you justlike a brief idea of what
possibly might have happened.
That's how it was.
Anyways, if you want to knowmore details, please check out
our mad king episode, because itwas a really good episode and
we love doing those historicaldeep dives as well.
So we talk about it then and Ithink it's in one of our theory
episodes, I think.
(37:20):
Check it out, check out all ourprevious episodes actually, but
yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
I hope that answers your question, Tony.
And also I read something thatsaid is Tywin might be
preventing.
By stopping the beddingceremony, he might be preventing
further shame, not out ofcompassion, necessarily, but
because it would make apolitical farce out of an
already delicate situation.
It's a combination it'sembarrassing to see.
(37:46):
See, this is your son, eventhough he's a, you know you, you
hate him.
He's still the carries, thename of Lannister, he's the face
of a Lannister.
You can't have him be like this.
Acted like a buffoon there.
Still, it could have been worseif allowed to that ceremony to
continue.
And what is this?
(38:06):
The ceremony is that theypeople get to watch.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
I, I forgot I forgot about until I was uh listening
to I think was it the redwedding, and then that was like
happening with edmure and I waslike, oh wait, what?
Like I forgot that this was apart of george's world, I think.
Basically, like men undress thebride and then women undress
the groom and then they kind oflike put them in a room I don't
know if people follow them inthere, but I don't know, that's
(38:30):
a big part of it's where.
Like oh, okay yeah, like theopposite gender takes like the
bride slash groom to, like theyundress them and then take them
to to like a room, which is soweird because like aren't they,
aren't they scared of what wouldhappen to the bride?
Like anything could happen toher on the way there, with like
a bunch of men who would trust awoman with that many men doing
(38:51):
that to her?
Like that's horrible, I don'tknow, that's so weird, but
whatever.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
I'm thinking of Braveheart, oh I didn't watch
that movie.
Where you know the lords wouldtake a bride, a new bride, and
bed her first before the husband.
And that's what I did not watchthat movie yeah, joffrey pretty
much wanted to do that, sayingoh, after my, my uncle passes
out, I'll be there yeah, thatwas like a nasty detail from
(39:20):
joffrey, like he was literallythreatening to do something
horrible.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
It's a crime.
I don't want to say the word,you know, but that was
disgusting.
And we get another disgustingscene with this moment with
Joffrey.
He escorted her in place of Ned, which is horrible because he's
the man that killed her father,you know, when he was walking
her down the aisle and Sansawasn't happy about that, so she
took that to him.
I I don't know if she saidanything to him or if he just
(39:49):
brought up the conversation andhe was like yeah, I'm here
because I'm the father of theRen.
It's just disgusting.
He says that like he has such aslimy aura in this episode.
It was like they want to remindus, like, oh, I just think it's
just, we haven't gotten on yournerves that much lately.
Let me know you so much in thisepisode it's like oh, I hate
him.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
King's Landing in these first four seasons is
always great, especially withthe ladders.
You're always going to getwell-acted scenes and great
dialogue and great moments.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
I think that's all that we have for King's Landing,
so we actually just have onemore character or one more group
to visit and that's pretty muchit for this episode.
But the last people, or likethe last scene that we're going
to talk about, is a very, veryimportant scene in the overall
context of game of thrones, andthat's the scene that we get in
this episode between sam andgilly.
So towards the very end you seethat sam and gilly kind of make
(40:38):
camp and take refuge.
It's an abandoned, destroyedcabin beyond the wall.
They're still there fightingtheir further lives and we hear
like these crows squawk and likemake these noises throughout
the scene.
And even when they're talkingyou know they talk about names
for Gideon's baby and Gideon'slike oh, I don't know any names
for boys and they talk about itshe has all Craster yeah,
craster, like that's the onlyboy name I know, and then I
(41:02):
don't know what I forgot, whatbrings it up?
And then Sam talks you know like, oh, my father's name, oh, no,
they're talking about like lastnames and first names and Sam
was like okay, like my, my nameis Samuel Tarly, my father's
name is Randall Tarly.
And then she goes oh, that's ahandsome name, randall.
And then moments where they'rekind of like connecting, because
(41:23):
then she says like, oh, is yourfather crude like mine?
Um, it's like this weak momentbetween them, but it's
interrupted by, um, like a bunchof those crows making their
noises of squawking I thinkthat's that's the word for the
noise that they make so they gooutside to investigate and then
that's when they the whitetalker pushing them and
immediately getting it wasthat's after her child.
That's like her mother'sintuition and she knows,
obviously, like what they dowith with the baby boys.
(41:45):
Um, like she's not an idiotlike she.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
She she says it right away oh he's, he's here for the
yeah.
So yeah, it's.
It's kind of and it's a I likethe design of the white walker.
It still wasn't like perfected,but it was kind of cool because
he had god.
When did he I I forget, I'msorry when when did I thought
that he killed the White Walkerwith his sword?
(42:09):
Because he does have a Valyriansteel sword.
What's it called Heartsbane?
Is it called Heartsbane?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, but doesn't he get it later?
Why doesn't he have it now?
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Yeah, because I thought he had it on him.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
It's called Heartsbane.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Okay, did Jorah have it?
No, he gives it on him.
It's called Hardspan.
Okay, did Jorah have it?
No, he gives it to Jorah in theend, he steals it from his
father's house.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Yeah, one of the seasons, one of the later
seasons.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Okay, yeah, I think it's season six when he goes
back to.
I'm confused.
He had Hardspan, the ancestralsword of his house.
Had Hardsbane, the ancestralsword of his house, that's when
they go visit his father inseason six.
On their way to Old Town.
Old Town, what is it called,though, to be?
(42:56):
What is the place?
Speaker 2 (42:58):
The Maester Place.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
Yeah, yeah, the Maester Place.
The Maester Place, that's,that's where they, they go up to
the citadel yeah, citadel,there you go.
And where does he live?
I forget his hometown.
Hornham there you go.
(43:22):
That's when they go.
They're riding on their way tothe citadel.
That's when he steals Heartbaneand he gives it to Jorah in
Season 8.
Anyway, so this is a big partof the story, of the overall
story we have at this point ofthe series.
How many times have we seen aWhite Walker Like three?
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Maybe four.
Yeah, I guess so.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
So this is maybe the fourth time we've seen one.
Uh, well, john saw one inseason two, right, but it didn't
really attack.
This is the first time we seelike a white walker attacking
somebody.
Uh, we saw one in season one inthe first, the prologue of the
series, but yeah, we just seethem coming up behind somebody
(44:06):
and chopping their head off.
These people are invincible.
How can you kill them?
Obviously, we get to see thatdragonglass and then it won't be
for another four seasons.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah, imagine.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
But it was a cool moment.
It was like, oh man, this ishow we get to defeat the one
true enemy we have for the whole, the whole world.
Good scene, good, uh uh.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
Sound visuals of the crows are very loud yeah, it's
such an epic scene honestly, ifyou think about, because no one
would expect sam.
So this is like pure drama.
No one would expect sam to, yes, be the one to kill White
Walker first on screen.
You'd be like, of course it'sJohn.
If not John, egret, you know.
Or if not, egret probably wouldhave expected it from George RR
(44:53):
Martin or what's his name,torment or something like that.
You would have never expectedit to be Sam.
Sam never would have expectedit to be Sam.
Nobody in the show.
So that's the fact that it'shim is so significant, and so
it's part of what makes Game ofThrones so epic.
Like we never expected Ned todie, we would never expect this
coming even though it seems likea minor thing, like yeah, okay
(45:14):
the person thecharacter died, it's like.
No, this changes the trajectoryof what they knew about the
White Walkers.
He uses a dragging glass tokill White Walkers and that's
what, what like, says thepresident, makes them all
understand what to find.
He gets rid of them and getsrid of this threat and what can
defeat them, because they're solike, like, undefeatable.
You know it was a word, but youknow what I mean and we know
(45:35):
that because of Sam and becauseof Sam's bravery, and it's
something that can't be like,ignored, and Sam you have this
character who's awkward, scaredand mocked relentlessly
throughout, and he becomes theliteral savior when it counts.
Of the run, yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah, so why don't we go to our favorite scene of the
episode?
Speaker 2 (45:58):
My scene probably is the Sam scene.
Like I love so many things,like so many little moments,
that scene with Marjorie andCersei and Cersei and Loras.
It's so funny, but I would sayit's the Sam scene.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
I would say that too, but I'm going to give Cersei
and the Marjorie scene Not equalbilling, but like 1A, 1b.
I just love Cersei Just givingit to Marjorie.
The performances are just sogreat, so I'm going to say that
All right.
So how about your rating forepisode 8 of season?
Speaker 2 (46:26):
3?
Maybe like an 8.5.
I feel like I'm giving it 8.5to a lot this season, but 8.5, I
can't think of anything.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
What do you think it has on IMDb?
Speaker 2 (46:38):
I know what it has on IMDb.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
Okay, it says 8.9, which is very high.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah, too high.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
I think it's too high .
In my mind I'm thinking well,you know that much happens this.
We don't see that manycharacters.
I was thinking like an 8.3, 8.4, um, but I'm just gonna do 8.5.
I think 8.9 or 9 is way toohigh.
And you know, next two episodeswe're gonna be in the nines,
for sure yeah, whether we likeit or not and that's going to be
(47:09):
a wrap on the 69th episode ofdancing with dragons.
For our 70th episode, braceyourselves because we're diving
into one of the most shockingmoments in all of westerosi
history the red wedding.
If you're enjoying our journeythrough the seven kingdoms, be
sure to subscribe, leave areview or share the podcast with
your fellow lords and ladies.
You can follow us on Instagramat dancingwith__dragons, for
(47:32):
updates, theories and more.
Until next time, peace out.
Will you fight for me ?
Swear to me, the Second Sonsare yours, and so is Daario
Naharis.
My sword is yours, my life isyours, my heart is yours.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hello and welcome to Dancing with Dragons, your go-to
podcast for everything relatedto Game of Thrones, house of the
Dragon and the rest of GeorgeRR Martin's A Song of Ice and
Fire universe.
My name is Minua and I'm herewith my co-host, tony, and in
this episode we're continuingour rewatch of Season 3 of Game
of Thrones and we'll bediscussing Episode 8, second
Sons.
Yes, the dreaded Red Wedding iscoming very, very soon, but
(01:00):
before we get to that and totoday's episode, we have some
Westerosi news we need to talkabout.
First and foremost, we havesome mini-updates on HBO's
Aegon's Conquest project.
Writer Matt Stomlin shared thatGeorge RR Martin will be
involved in the project.
Lots of writing has beencompleted and he's most excited
to see the opening scene come tolife on the show.
Matt Stomlin also posted onTwitter slash X Turning in
(01:24):
scripts feels good and he's likereferring to him turning into
HBO the script for Egon'sConquest.
So that pretty much confirmsthat update as well.
Tomlin previously wrote thescripts for the film Little Fish
and Project Power and he's aco-writer to the Batman Part 2
with director Matt Reeves.
Seems like it's in good hands.
I'm glad George is a part of it.
It's a good sign for now.
George hasn good sign for now.
(01:46):
George hasn't said anythingabout it.
In case you're wondering, um,the only thing that george has
updated us on is the fact thathe enjoyed the superman film,
the new apple tv series, murderbots, and he says that andrew
was this year's highlight forhim.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I'm sure tony would agree yes, and I'm very happy he
said that.
I applaud him.
It said that he's activelyinvolved.
We've heard that many times.
It's just yeah, it's not likeoh, oh, yay.
Like he loves the duncan show,like he said he loves it, it's
the best thing he did, um, soI'm excited for that.
But yeah, I mean he's activelyengaged, he's available, I guess
(02:17):
, for the lore consultation.
I'm excited for this show.
I mean we we've talked aboutmaybe we should we wanted some
other non-Targaryen media for abit and then go back to
Targaryen because we're going tohave House of the Dragon.
I thought that Aegon's Conquestwas going to be the second show
for Game of Thrones when theyfinish the main show.
(02:39):
It's going to be a tall task.
It's going to be weird becausein the book you know how.
It's not a POV book, it's justlike a historical textbook that
you know other writers arewriting and everything goes so
quickly.
You know you have Aegon comingto Westeros and then it'll say,
you know, 25 years later this ishappening.
(03:02):
So, they're going to have tofill all those slots.
And where are they going tostart?
Are they going to start when helands at Westeros?
Are they going to start whenhe's already going out as king?
Because there's much drama thathappens when he dies and the
sons come, and so it's going tobe interesting to see where the
actual story begins.
(03:23):
Yeah, it's going to be great tosee who they cast as Aegon and
Visenya and Rhaenys.
Visenya is for sure, because Iwant to see her wield Dark
Sister.
I want to see her on Vag, Iwant to see everything, because
she's going to be one of themost badass women we'll ever see
on screen.
So they need to make sure theyget the casting correct, and you
know who we want.
(03:46):
It's the one from vikings it wasfunny it's a show that I've
seen four episodes of, but Iknow she's the right person yeah
, I know I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
As someone that's seen like more than one season,
I'll tell you that I agree withyou I saw people say, oh well,
she's.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
This actress is too old.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Now I'm like so, yeah , so exactly that's a casting we
would like to see, but luckilyfor us, the westerosi new
segment that we have todayactually covers casting, uh for
house of the dragon.
Um.
So for house of the dragon,season three, two characters
have finally been cast um.
Firstly, charlie gordon hasbeen cast as prince darren
sargerian.
Um, darren is the fourth andyoungest child of king viserys
(04:22):
and alice inower.
He's a character we assumedthey'd cut out after he was
ignored for the entirety ofseason one, but they kept
mentioning him in season two, soit's clear that they were
actually including him, thankGod, since he's a key part of
the story and now he's finallybeen cast.
And another casting that we'realso glad isn't just like a
mystery character as well isthat of Alicent Blackwood.
The actress Annie shapira hasbeen cast as her.
(04:51):
Aliceane blackwood, also knownas black ally, was regarded as a
fierce and fearless woman withan indecent way of talking.
She's a skilled hunter, horsebreaker and archer in this show.
Technically she already wouldhave slash should have made an
appearance, because she does inlike a book event that we've
already seen on the show, whichis the battle of the burning
mill.
Um, we got to glimpse of thisin season two.
They showed the before andafter of the battle, but none of
it.
In the actual show, yeah, andin the books.
House Blackwood sided with TeamBlack.
(05:11):
However, the Blackwood'shereditary enemies, house
Bracken, supported the Greens,and during the Battle of the
Burning Mill, sir Amos Brackenslew Lord Samuel Blackwood in
single combat but diedimmediately afterwards when a
weirwood arrow was fired intothe eye slit of his head.
According to the Blackhorns,that arrow was shot by Alicene,
avenging her brother's death.
So that gives you a glimpse asto who she is and how really
(05:33):
epic she is as a character.
She will play a role in thecharacter's future.
I don't want to give too manybook spoilers away, so I'm just
going to say that yeah, that'sbig spoilers.
Yeah, but a part of her storyfor the books will also
definitely be changed, or willlikely be changed, considering
some of the other changes theshow on universe have made to
the original story.
But they made so many changesthat it seemed like they could
(05:54):
have gone as far as cutting herout.
I think we talked about that inour season two coverage of
house of the dragon.
We assumed that they'd justignore her, um, but I'm glad
that she actually makes anappearance and that's where
we're going to be getting herfor season 3 and she's not just
cut out.
She's there and she's actuallygoing to be in 5 out of the 8
episodes we're getting.
So I know that you feelstrongly about this character
and storyline, tony.
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Are you positive about it?
Well, you just gave me somefacts that I did not know, so I
didn't know.
I was thinking she was supposedto be in the Battle of the
Burning Mill.
She wasn't there.
So after that she doesn'treally reappear in the book
until way after some.
(06:35):
It's hard to say withoutspoiling, but I don't see how
she fits into the season unlessthey're going to be going really
quick with the story, which issomething that I wasn't
foreseeing.
I wasn't foreseeing her to beso heavily involved until, maybe
, season four.
So now I'm thinking, okay,where are we going to get the
(06:58):
big battle to open the seasonthree, obviously, but then are
we going to go like the to go?
The timeline shifts quicklyuntil you know what I mean Like.
So now I'm like thrown off abit.
I don't know what to think.
So, yeah, I was going to haveto think about that later, cause
now I'm just like, hmm, whereare we going to go here?
But anyway, I'm excited to seeher going to be in the show.
(07:20):
It would have been great to seeher in the battle.
Obviously, we didn't even getto see a battle, we just saw the
aftermath.
And yeah, we'll see whathappens.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Hopefully it works.
That's what I'll say.
I think we kind of shouldexpect the story to be a bit
fast-paced, because we're onlygetting two more seasons of
House of the Dragon and there'sstill a lot for them to cover.
We talked about it too.
Think that, um, we don't knowwhere or how house of the dragon
is exactly going to end.
You know, like we I think wetalked about that one of our
house of the dragon relatedepisodes where they we
(07:52):
speculated that there aredifferent moments where they
could just end the season at.
So, considering that, I thinkyou said something like oh, they
need a few episodes to cover,like after the, the typical
ending point, like the storywill end at a certain point, but
for the events that will happendirectly afterwards, that would
need a few more episodes too.
So I mean, considering all ofthat, we definitely need as many
(08:15):
episodes as possible, andthey're just like going to speed
yeah, we need to have a greatepilogue.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
We don't need a one page or like 30 minute or five
second montage of that greatchapter of the book.
You know which I want to see?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
And that brings us to the end of WestRossy News for
today.
We will be sharing theseupdates in our episodes if
there's anything relevant.
So stay tuned, you know,episode to episode, week to week
, because the more we get getthese updates, the more we'll
share them.
Um, but back to today's episode.
As I said, we're discussingepisode eight of season three,
titled second sons.
The episode first premiered onhbo on may 19th 2013.
(08:55):
It was written by david benioffand db weiss and it was directed
by michelle mclaren, whodirected the previous episode,
the baron maiden fair, as wellas two episodes in season four.
The title of the episode secondsons directly refers to the
previous episode, the BairdMaiden Fair, as well as two
episodes in season four.
The title of the episode SecondSons directly refers to the
Second Sons, the missionarycompany we meet in Essos.
In this episode, on a looserlevel, it also kind of deals
with the theme of Second Sons.
You know, tyrion is the secondson of Tywin.
We see Sandor Clegane, we sunwas.
(09:25):
It's treated like one.
We see sadness is also secondson, so there's that kind of
theme running through it in thisepisode.
Um, I think that there wereother episodes that dealt with
this theme better.
So for that I will say that thetitle likely solely refers to
the second sons, because it'snot really a thematic like it's
not really prevalent in thisepisode it's just a coincidence.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
It's just a coincidence, we have second sons
in there.
But yeah, it's just acoincidence that we have second
sons in there.
But yeah, it's not like alayered.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, no, it's not like the message or the core of
the episode.
We talked about that with otherepisodes in House of the Dragon
as well.
It's not a key point of theepisode, but it's still nice to
think about.
That's what happens in thisepisode.
First of all, a royal weddingtakes place in King's Landing.
Gendry arrives at Dragonstone,melisandre Stannis visits the
imprisoned Dava Seaworth, samwenand Gilly camp north of the
(10:08):
Wall and meet a dangerous foe,and Daenerys meets the mercenary
company of the Second Sonsbefore the walls of Yunkai.
So let's get started.
Where do you want to start?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
I think we should start with the beginning of the
episode.
Since it's so brief, we shouldjust start there.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, it's a brief and strong opening for the
episode as well.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I have a question from Caden underscore Crippen
regarding this opening scene.
He asked do you think Aryawould have killed the Hound if
he wasn't awake, or would sheshy away from killing him If
this was season seven, Arya?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Oh, that might change things.
No, I'm joking.
I honestly don't think that shewould have.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Uh, we can see that she's hesitant you know, I don't
think she was ready yet.
I don't think that rock wouldhave killed him anyway.
He's hard-headed, strong.
He probably would have beenlike woozy, but after that he
would have just killed her ornot.
I don't know if he would havekilled her, because he's not
that stupid.
I think he wants thatbargaining chip and he gives her
the little story about how hesaved her sister.
(11:11):
He's like your sister wouldhave been dead without me.
You know they were going to justtorture her, rape her, and I
saved her.
When he tells her the storythat he's going to take her to
the twins know, kiss her motherand brother there for a wedding
she lets out this tiniest grinlike oh yeah like she little
(11:31):
grin of happiness knowing thatshe's going to see her, her, her
family.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So I thought that was kind of cute it was and when
you think about it like I think.
Correct me if I'm wrong, butthis is the first time that aria
has actually heard of sansaf,like in a while yeah like she
hasn't heard of her sister atall.
So I think that that's like whatthe Hound says kind of reminds
her of Sansa in a way, because Idon't think that she was really
thinking about her all thistime.
So you do see it in like MaisieWilliams' eyes when Sansa's
(12:00):
brought up, like she's like ohright, sansa, and you can kind
of feel that she's concerned butalso in a way relieved.
But then I feel like thatquickly gets taken away because
she finds out that she's beingtaken to her family instead of
being taken to King's Landing.
So she's kind of forgets aboutSansa again very quickly because
she's happy at the idea ofmeeting or seeing her family
again.
But yeah, I do think that waskind of like a touching oh wait,
(12:23):
right, like she's, she doesn'tknow where sansa's at.
So that's where aria is at.
But you know, last time we sawaria, or like one of the
previous times with aria, shewas very devastated about gendry
not being there with her.
Um, so let's see where gendry isat, because he doesn't make an
appearance again in this episode.
Uh, he and minnesota finallyget to dragon stone, um, and she
takes him to Stannis andStannis immediately recognizes
(12:45):
him as Robert, which is like athing with Gendry.
I don't know, I think it's inthe show as well as the books,
but I think it was in the books,I can't remember.
But it's a thing with Gendrywhere he is supposedly like a
spitting image of a young Robertthat everybody is able to
recognize it and that's kind ofreferred to in this moment
because Stannis sees him andimmediately says half Robert,
half Leoborn.
It's just like an instant heinstantly recognizes that.
(13:08):
And it's kind of like a weirdmoment because Melisandre kind
of like convinces Stannis thatyou know, like we need to do
this and like prep him Like he'sjust like a sacrificial lamb
you need not show, you know,like the murder weapon and stuff
.
Let me pause on the Gendrystuff for a second and talk
about Stannis himself, becausehe makes an interesting change
or like takes an interestingstep in this episode.
(13:29):
After that, you know, when theytalk about what they need to do
with Gendry, which is to usehis blood and everything, he
kind of isn't so sure about theidea and goes to see Davos is
practicing reading from like akid's book that tells the story
of Aegon's conquest.
It's like a book that'sobviously given to him by
Shireen and it's so cute becausehe's like the Aegon and his
(13:52):
it's just it's so cute.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
It's kind of like Veigar and Visenya.
That's yeah, that's very cute.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
But yeah, stannis finally visits him and he's
imprisoned him for like no realreason, honestly, and then he
just looks at him, he's like oh,I'm finally saying sorry about
your son, which is when he saysthat you kind of realize it took
him that long.
To me I thought it was a veryfascinating scene that showed
their relationship, becauseDavos kind of wasn't really
(14:19):
resentful towards Stannis thatmuch.
He was kind of open to him in away.
He still recognized that that'shis leader towards Stannis,
that much, you know, he was likekind of open to him in a way.
He was.
He still recognized that that'shis leader, you know.
And when he kind of tellsStannis like why are you really
here?
Like you're here because youneed my advice, I knew that the
only, I'm the only one that'sgoing to actually give you the
advice and this is what it is,which is that I don't think that
this like sacrifice thing withGendry is worth it, because
(14:40):
Gendry's innocent and Randywasn't, and blah, blah, blah.
So it was like a veryinteresting scene.
And again, when Davos says thathe's kind of like he still gives
his real advice, which is thathe doesn't think that Stannis
should go through with this.
If he was bitter or thatresentful towards Stannis, he
would have russed up, he wouldhave probably put Stannis in a,
(15:02):
he would have set him up to failand would have told him
something else.
You know, I think that Davoswould be capable of something
like that if he had maliciousintentions.
But he doesn't and he actuallydoes respect Stannis.
So I thought such aninteresting scene where you can
see that underlying respect thatthey have for one another.
They both recognize it and thenthat's why I think Stannis
frees Davos in, because he knowsthat Teltuk doesn't have anyone
other than him.
(15:23):
He realizes that he was foolishto trap his, to imprison his
most honest advisor and the mostloyal person there to him.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Stannis just has yes-men surrounding him and he
needs somebody to put him incheck.
And I think Gendry was thefirst test for Stannis.
Is he willing to compromise hismorals for victory?
And that's why Davos figures itout right away.
He's not book learned learned,as they say, yeah, but he's
(15:53):
savvy and he's street smart.
He knows what's going on.
You know, stannis, he's not alike worshiper of the Lord of
the Light.
He follows it because he seesit as a tactical advantage.
He sees in the magic andvisions.
He sees that well.
Maybe this can help me.
He's not a zealot likeMelisandre or his wife.
(16:14):
He's just the king trying towin a war and he's willing to
use this divine power to do it.
And to me he came out verycallous.
This is just another personlike everybody dies sacrificing
gendry like so what?
At first you're like maybe hecould, davos could get silence
to rethink this, but then sizelike no, no, he has that total
(16:36):
vision.
Do you know?
This is an episode written bythe dnds, because there's a lot
of nudity and there's a lot ofskin shown here.
It seems like and for no reasonI'll talk about that yeah, it's
a daenerys, uh, which I thoughtwas kind of silly but yeah, um,
good scene.
I will say that the tortureused on gendry it's not really
(16:58):
that bad compared to keon.
I'm like, oh yeah, I have acouple leeches and I have this
beautiful woman on top of me fora few minutes and then I get
leeches.
I'm like I guess it's not thatbad compared to she can't
compare um yeah, yeah, I'm justthinking, like when it comes to
(17:18):
the torture we've seen in theshow, like that's not that bad,
you know, like she's not likepoking his eye with a hot stick
or anything, but yeah um, beforewe move on from stannis and co?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
um, I do want to say that you know when, when stannis
picks up the leeches and thenthrows them in the fire and says
the names, like the usurper,rob stark bait on great joy,
joffrey brathen you know,everybody listening to this has
watched the show before.
So I'm trying to say it'sinteresting, because Stannis
made a point earlier in theepisode when he talks to Davos
being like look, melisandre'sstuff, it works and it's legit
(17:50):
and stuff like that, and thenall those names that he says
they all end up dying reallysoon.
Like Robb Stark dies very, verysoon.
Berengera Joy and Joffrey Barwas very, I don't know.
It's like it was a good backupfor what stannis was saying.
And also, weirdly enough, didyou catch this?
Um, apparently, uh, davos.
Stannis said something aboutlike um, he's seen visions of a
(18:12):
great battle in the snow.
Yes, not so great.
I don't know what stannis.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
So I think or maybe he's talking about when he uh,
when he goes up there when hesurprised the wildlings probably
he took.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I'll give them that.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
He took over the Night's Watch or Castle Black.
He probably saw the battle withthe wildlings, which was not
really a battle at all Because,you know, they just ran over
those poor free folk.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, but did you know that for one of the shots
they actually used real leecheson the actor, on the actor, Joe
Dempsey?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Oh really.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Yeah, that's what I said behind the scenes like
facts for this episode.
Okay, now that we're done witharia and stannis, those are like
two uh, kind of smaller plotpoints of this episode.
The rest of them are kind ofjuicier, I guess, and I'm always
having to talk about her oncewe go talk about dinners because
I miss her and I'm talkingabout her I don't mind talking
about her Testosterone-filledscene Meeting the second sons.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
What I like is that, yeah, these guys except Dario,
he doesn't come off as vulgar asMiro and you know Miro treats
her with outright contempt.
Despite all that, daenerysremains composed, calm and
dignified.
She's nodding her head and it'sjust a neutral face.
(19:30):
There's no happy, sad, anger,nothing.
She doesn't overreact, nor shedoesn't show any weakness, which
is politically savvy.
She does get a little peevewhen they leave and she's like,
yeah, well, you're going to killhim first, obviously, if it
comes to that, yeah, this isDany growing up also playing the
(19:51):
game.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
She knows that showing her emotions and her
anger won't work with these men.
She was that way in the pastand it's totally fine if she is
angry and shows it becausethey're obviously disrespecting
her.
But I think she knows, likeshe's learning how to, I guess,
maneuver and like play the gameand be like okay, this, my anger
, won't work in this situation.
I need to play it this way,even though she was really angry
(20:17):
.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
And she?
She doesn't threaten them atthe beginning.
She offers them a deal likejoin her and you could receive
gold.
In the show they say 2,000second sons, but in the book
there's like 500.
Sons, but in the book there'slike 500.
Actually, you know what, beforewe talk about the last scene
with daenerys the second sons,they have a little meeting and
they decide that they need.
They need to get rid of her.
(20:40):
They don't want to assassinateher.
Dario is picked to kill, butanyway, before dario shows up at
daenerys's tent disguised asunsullied, you have missandei
helping Daenerys bathe andthey're talking about how
Missandei speaks.
What?
19 languages or something likethat.
Yeah, and she starts talkingDothraki and in a
(21:11):
non-passive-aggressive way.
Missandei corrects her Dothrakiand Daenerys is like what Wait,
what she's trying to?
She reverts back to being abeginner and she doesn't know
the words.
I thought that was a coollittle scene.
It comes to the point when Italked about nudity and you have
Dario come in and his intentionwasn't to kill them.
Anyway, he wanted to joinDaenerys, but why do you think
(21:34):
she needed to stand up the tub?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Because, as you said, it's directed by D&D.
This is a dumb HBO thing whereall their actresses have to be
unclothed.
There was no need for it.
It was even before she standsup.
Like it was like right there,you know what I mean.
Like it was like the waterlevel wasn't high enough.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yeah, they just want to, they just want to there's no
bubbles in that, so they couldadd to the water.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
I'm telling you, I'm telling you.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I'm like, oh, this is so season three, season six,
when she that episode and Ithink it was her, was it a body
double.
She's like I'm not doing anymore nudity, right, I think it
was after season six, but anyway, I thought it was kind of like
weird.
Like okay, I'm just standinghere, I'm supposed to be your
leader, why am I naked?
(22:24):
You should be naked, not me.
Anyway, we opened this episodewith Dario proclaiming his
loyalty, or you know, todaenerys.
We get to see, do we ever seehim again, this, this actor,
because, like I said, like I seehis face and I go, wow, he, he
would make a great villain inrings of power.
(22:45):
He has that you know, evil look, and or he will make elf, or he
will make a great targaryenwith the blonde or silver hair.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
He's in three episodes in season three.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Okay, so he will be in the next three, the next
episode nine and ten.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, Tony is team this actor.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
No, I'm just saying.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
And I'm team the next actor.
I think his name is Michelle orMichael Huisman.
So yeah, I'm team that guy,tony's team, this guy, this guy,
as I would not mind him in allthe other projects but for dario
, no sorry, I'm one of thosepeople that hate, uh, when I see
people go oh, this person, uh,like like all that discourse
(23:28):
with bella ramsey, oh, shedoesn't look like like Ellie.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
And I go well, you have a really good actress.
Do we care about the look?
Or we care about the actingability?
Like, what do we really careabout?
Do we want somebody who lookslike the the video game version
and sucks as an actor, or youknow what I mean?
Like so, and here I am goingwow, he's, he's perfect for this
and is he really a good actor?
(23:53):
But he will.
He'll be great at this.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Anyway, I'm a hypocrite yeah, um, I think
that's it for danny, though,right, like I can talk about her
forever, but like that's, uh,it's for him in this episode.
And I think we can move on to,um, king's landing and what's
going down there, because a bigevent is taking place in King's
Landing.
It's a royal wedding.
It's Tyrion and Sansa's wedding, and it's also one of the most
(24:17):
uncomfortable things that wehave to see in Game of Thrones.
So this is the scene that weget before the actual wedding,
where Tyrion and Sansa have adiscussion, I think one of their
only conversations that they'veever had on screen before.
I don't know if this is like oneof their first or I think
probably their second or thirdcompetition we've seen on screen
, because we have that oneconversation that they have had
in season two when Tyrion's kindof proud of Sansa, when Sansa
(24:39):
was like playing the game andbeing like she acted as though
she was supporting Joffrey, butTyrion could see right through
it and he's like a nice sweetkind of scene between them
because tyrian's just like, in away, he's like I'm sorry, you
know, like I'm sorry that thisis happening to you.
That's kind of like, indirectly,what he's telling her and, um,
(25:02):
he like he promises her andtries to make sure that you know
like I'll never hurt you,you're safe in my hands, and I
think that what he's telling herhere and that like um concern
that you can see in his, in hislines, is something that's uh
prevalent in tyrian's innermonologue, ever like in the
books, ever since he like thisplot point uh is brought up,
(25:23):
ever since it's brought up thattyrian is likely going to have
to marry sansa.
It's like it's mentionedcountless times that he feels
like kind of guilty, I don'tknow, or like he feels a certain
way about it, like it's not,it's not like we don't.
We get it once or twice.
Like I remember when I waslistening to the audiobook it
was like I don't know, liketyrian's thoughts on this we
also get in the previous episode, but uh, I just I don't know.
I like seeing it's vocalizeddirectly to sansa here as well,
(25:45):
because I felt like I was in hishead for a while in the box I
absolutely adore how tender andrespectful tyrian is towards
sansa.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
He's trying his best to make her feel comfortable in
this unwinnable situation forthe both of them.
He doesn't want to be there, hedoesn't want to do anything.
I mean, when they get to theroom, sansa looks like she's 14,
even though she's not 14, andthe hairdo they give her makes
her look even younger, likethat's a hairdo that you have
for a preteen or just a teen.
(26:16):
It shows that even in thisbrutal world, tyrian's decency
is something that shown and I Ireally like that he has his
tenderness towards her.
My father says I have toconsummate, but you know what
the way he says after is so good.
I won't repeat it here becauseyou know I have a lady in front
of me, uh.
(26:38):
But yeah, I will go back to thebeginning because we're not
talking about one another in thebedroom.
But peter dinklage is just theway he can.
He has that.
I.
I want to protect you face andI am here for you and I'm trying
my best to be respectful andand I'm I'm.
I'm not that I'm a lannister,but I'm not, I'm a lannister you
can trust.
(26:58):
Let me just say the last line,because she.
She just says he says I willnot share your bed until you ask
me to, right.
And she says what if I don'twant you to?
And he says so my watch begins.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Oh yeah, that was a nice, that was like funny.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Ease the tension.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
But yeah, I wanted to say something actually about
that beginning scene as well,the pre-wedding conversation.
It's like a kind of Easter eggIn that scene in her room before
the wedding.
You see a doll next to Sansa'smirror.
Yes, I don't know if you got'tknow, yeah yeah, it was the doll
that ned gave to her in seasonthree of episode one, um, and
(27:40):
she was, like, I'm too old toplay with dolls at that time, um
but now yeah, and now that Ifeel like we see it in that
episode and we see it now, oneepisode three and then season
three, episode eight, to meseeing that doll again, this one
before her wedding, kind ofbookends sansa's childhood or
like her girlhood, like that'sit.
Sansa's not a girl anymoreafter this, she's, she becomes a
woman and like that's kind ofsupposed to be.
(28:01):
Like, yeah, she becomes a womanbecause she's getting married,
but at the same time it's likeno, like this is where, like,
sansa's life will really changeand she's, I don't know, like
she's seen more as a woman afterthis point, you know, like
she's gonna she's seen that wayby the finger, even more so now,
and like by society, like she's, like that's it.
They.
They don't consider her a childanymore.
(28:22):
So I thought that was like abittersweet detail.
Um, and about the wedding itselfyou know you talked about it.
Um, it was kind of a hard watchfor me, like the wedding and
then the dinner party and evenafter, even though Tyrion was a
gentleman afterwards and youknow he didn't like force her
into anything, which I thoughtwas, you know, in line with his
character and as he, as heshould, you know he did the
(28:45):
right thing, said the rightthing.
The actual like dinner and thewedding was really hard.
Watch for me.
You know.
We have that moment withJoffrey taking down the stool
that Tyrion would have used toplace the cape over Sansa to
humiliate him and her.
And then you have the dinnerfeast when you have Joffrey
threatening Sansa, you haveTyrion being drunk and obviously
(29:08):
not wanting to be there.
You have the sadness in Sansa'seyes because this is someone
that's been dreaming of herwedding her entire life.
We see it in the season as well,you know, when she fantasizes
about doris, like you can seeall of that like um, like
fantasy that she has in her, inher mind, like you can see it on
sophie turner's performance,because I don't know you just
this is that's what sansa.
She's always talking aboutmarrying a nice, noble prince,
(29:30):
and you just see that this isn'tthe outcome for her, that that
she would have wanted, and youcan see that she's not happy and
she's humiliated as well.
But she's mature enough to like, know that she like to be, to
be the way that she is about it.
She's not like like she was,like she's a prisoner, basically
in this horse, and it won't doher any good to like protest or
or scream or, and she can't runaway at the same time, so she's
(29:53):
like acting like a real womanhere.
Um and uh, yeah, I just it waslike a hard.
It was a hard, hard watch forme.
And then you know he seestyrian acting overly drunk when,
uh, after, he threatens joffrey, and then they have to kind of
like ease the situation, youknow when joffrey's like oh, now
the bedding ceremony, and thenyeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
But before that I'm gonna say, before that you have
a moment where I don't know ifit was Cersei trying to shield
Sansa or just making sure thatJoffrey doesn't make a mess of
himself, because she just says,oh, why don't you spend time
with your bride-to-be?
Because she knew when he got upthat he was going to torture
Sansa or Tyrion.
(30:32):
Can you stop being a douchebagfor a second.
Stop having this gleefulnessand bringing discomfort or pain
or suffering to people.
Stop, just like, sit down andjust be normal for a second.
But we're all over the placewith this, because I want to go
back to before the wedding,because it's a great scene which
(30:56):
I'm just going to play for you.
I don't even care if it's aminute and 20 seconds.
It's Cersei.
We've talked about Cersei andMargaery a lot this season,
covering season three, howCersei is just biting her tongue
when it comes to Margaery.
Margaery is just so charmingand mother Cersei cannot deal
with her.
When it comes to MargaeryMargaery is this so charming and
mother Cersei cannot deal withher.
But here it's like she reachedthat boiling point.
(31:18):
That's it, the tea's ready orthe water's ready.
She goes.
They talk about the reigns ofCastamere, which is like okay
let's just listen to it becauseit's great.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
A better dancer than a singer, I'm afraid.
Oh, but you know the song, theReigns of Castamere.
Of course they play it so oftenhere at court.
So you know the story of HouseReign of Castamere Not as well
as you, I'm sure.
House Reign was a powerfulfamily, very wealthy, the second
wealthiest in Westeros.
Aren't the Tyrells the secondwealthiest family in Westeros.
(31:53):
Now, of course, ambitiousclimbers don't want to stop on
the second highest rung.
If only you could take thatfinal step.
You'd see further than all therest.
You'd be alone with nothing butblue sky above you.
So Lord Rhaen built a castle asgrand as Casterly Rock.
He gave his wife diamondslarger than any my mother ever
(32:15):
wore and finally, one day, herebelled against my father.
Do you know where House Raineis now Gone?
Gone, a gentle word, why notsay slaughtered Every man, woman
and child put to the sword.
(32:37):
I remember seeing their bodieshanging high above the gates of
Casterly Rock.
My father, let them rot upthere all summer.
It was a long summer, and nowthe rains we've owed their halls
and not a soul to hear.
If you ever call me sisteragain, I'll have you strangled
(33:02):
in your sleep.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Yeah, the best part about this scene is that the
whole time she's listening toCersei pretty much threatening
her and her family.
She's walking arm in arm andshe's looking out to the crowd
and nodding and smiling topeople looking at her, and then
she turns to Cersei and getsserious.
It's just great acting.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
It's such a great scene.
Honestly, I think it shows bothof their characters really well
.
You said that about Margaie andthen Cersei being like I'll
have you strangled in your sleep, but it's so funny.
And what I think adds to it is,you know, maw and Marjorie kind
of just turned and chatted andwas like we're going to be
sisters.
After that, when they werewalking down the stairs you see
(33:54):
Loras in the just want to jump alittle bit in the wedding
between him and cersei.
It's like 60 seconds not even.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
It was like he said three words.
He's like shut up and she justleft for something.
I don't want to hear it it wasgold.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
It was gold.
I love it.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
It was so funny that's just cersei, back to
herself like she's yeah she'snot dealing with it anymore.
She knows well, she knows thatshe's not going to marry this
guy.
I wanted to ask you a questionabout this scene.
I'm going to put the audio of Idon't know, just one more audio
of Tywin putting a stop to thebedding ceremony.
(34:28):
I just love Tywin Lannister.
I mean I love Charles Dance,not Tywin Lannister.
I just love Tywin Lannister.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I mean I love Charles Dance, not Tywin Lannister.
What did you say?
I believe we can dispense forthe bedding.
Your Grace, I'm sure Tyrion didnot mean to threaten the king.
A bad joke, your Grace, Madeout of envy of your own royal
(34:59):
manhood.
Mine is so small my poor wifewon't even know I'm there.
Your uncle is clearly quitedrunk.
Your Grace, I am guilty, but itis my wedding night.
My tiny drunk cock and I have ajob to do Come with.
(35:32):
I vomited on a girl once in themiddle of the act, not bad of
it, but I think honesty isimportant between a man and wife
, don't you agree?
come, I'll tell you all about it.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Put you in the mood hey, my question is to you.
We talked about Tywin youngTywin in our Mad King episode
and what he had to deal with inhis own wedding night with his
own wife sour?
Is that sour memory of thebedding ceremony that included
joanna, his wife, and the madking?
(36:07):
We don't know what happened,it's just rumors.
Do you think that is?
This is why he's like okay,we're done, we're not doing this
, or?
Is this, you know, is that anycorrelation or length?
Speaker 2 (36:17):
yeah, I mean, when I saw the scene as I said, it's
been a while since I've seenthis episode.
I don't really remember it,that's what.
So when I saw him refuse, I waslike, oh wait, yeah, I feel
like there's a, there's like aanother reason for that.
Like you don't see tyrian sorry, we don't see Tywin defending
Tyrion normally, and I don'tthink that he's doing that.
He wouldn't do that for Tyrionor Sansa.
(36:39):
He could do it to save face infront of all those people, but
at the same time, he would havefound a different way if it
didn't hit close to home for him.
It was a bit too much, I think,for Tywin.
It definitely brought back thememory of what happened to tywin
, um, during his his wedding.
(37:00):
So, yeah, a few, and if youdon't know what we're talking
about, like, we gave you justlike a brief idea of what
possibly might have happened.
That's how it was.
Anyways, if you want to knowmore details, please check out
our mad king episode, because itwas a really good episode and
we love doing those historicaldeep dives as well.
So we talk about it then and Ithink it's in one of our theory
episodes, I think.
(37:20):
Check it out, check out all ourprevious episodes actually, but
yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
I hope that answers your question, Tony.
And also I read something thatsaid is Tywin might be
preventing.
By stopping the beddingceremony, he might be preventing
further shame, not out ofcompassion, necessarily, but
because it would make apolitical farce out of an
already delicate situation.
It's a combination it'sembarrassing to see.
(37:46):
See, this is your son, eventhough he's a, you know you, you
hate him.
He's still the carries, thename of Lannister, he's the face
of a Lannister.
You can't have him be like this.
Acted like a buffoon there.
Still, it could have been worseif allowed to that ceremony to
continue.
And what is this?
(38:06):
The ceremony is that theypeople get to watch.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
I, I forgot I forgot about until I was uh listening
to I think was it the redwedding, and then that was like
happening with edmure and I waslike, oh wait, what?
Like I forgot that this was apart of george's world, I think.
Basically, like men undress thebride and then women undress
the groom and then they kind oflike put them in a room I don't
know if people follow them inthere, but I don't know, that's
(38:30):
a big part of it's where.
Like oh, okay yeah, like theopposite gender takes like the
bride slash groom to, like theyundress them and then take them
to to like a room, which is soweird because like aren't they,
aren't they scared of what wouldhappen to the bride?
Like anything could happen toher on the way there, with like
a bunch of men who would trust awoman with that many men doing
(38:51):
that to her?
Like that's horrible, I don'tknow, that's so weird, but
whatever.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
I'm thinking of Braveheart, oh I didn't watch
that movie.
Where you know the lords wouldtake a bride, a new bride, and
bed her first before the husband.
And that's what I did not watchthat movie yeah, joffrey pretty
much wanted to do that, sayingoh, after my, my uncle passes
out, I'll be there yeah, thatwas like a nasty detail from
(39:20):
joffrey, like he was literallythreatening to do something
horrible.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
It's a crime.
I don't want to say the word,you know, but that was
disgusting.
And we get another disgustingscene with this moment with
Joffrey.
He escorted her in place of Ned, which is horrible because he's
the man that killed her father,you know, when he was walking
her down the aisle and Sansawasn't happy about that, so she
took that to him.
I I don't know if she saidanything to him or if he just
(39:49):
brought up the conversation andhe was like yeah, I'm here
because I'm the father of theRen.
It's just disgusting.
He says that like he has such aslimy aura in this episode.
It was like they want to remindus, like, oh, I just think it's
just, we haven't gotten on yournerves that much lately.
Let me know you so much in thisepisode it's like oh, I hate
him.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
King's Landing in these first four seasons is
always great, especially withthe ladders.
You're always going to getwell-acted scenes and great
dialogue and great moments.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
I think that's all that we have for King's Landing,
so we actually just have onemore character or one more group
to visit and that's pretty muchit for this episode.
But the last people, or likethe last scene that we're going
to talk about, is a very, veryimportant scene in the overall
context of game of thrones, andthat's the scene that we get in
this episode between sam andgilly.
So towards the very end you seethat sam and gilly kind of make
(40:38):
camp and take refuge.
It's an abandoned, destroyedcabin beyond the wall.
They're still there fightingtheir further lives and we hear
like these crows squawk and likemake these noises throughout
the scene.
And even when they're talkingyou know they talk about names
for Gideon's baby and Gideon'slike oh, I don't know any names
for boys and they talk about itshe has all Craster yeah,
craster, like that's the onlyboy name I know, and then I
(41:02):
don't know what I forgot, whatbrings it up?
And then Sam talks you know like, oh, my father's name, oh, no,
they're talking about like lastnames and first names and Sam
was like okay, like my, my nameis Samuel Tarly, my father's
name is Randall Tarly.
And then she goes oh, that's ahandsome name, randall.
And then moments where they'rekind of like connecting, because
(41:23):
then she says like, oh, is yourfather crude like mine?
Um, it's like this weak momentbetween them, but it's
interrupted by, um, like a bunchof those crows making their
noises of squawking I thinkthat's that's the word for the
noise that they make so they gooutside to investigate and then
that's when they the whitetalker pushing them and
immediately getting it wasthat's after her child.
That's like her mother'sintuition and she knows,
obviously, like what they dowith with the baby boys.
(41:45):
Um, like she's not an idiotlike she.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
She she says it right away oh he's, he's here for the
yeah.
So yeah, it's.
It's kind of and it's a I likethe design of the white walker.
It still wasn't like perfected,but it was kind of cool because
he had god.
When did he I I forget, I'msorry when when did I thought
that he killed the White Walkerwith his sword?
(42:09):
Because he does have a Valyriansteel sword.
What's it called Heartsbane?
Is it called Heartsbane?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, but doesn't he get it later?
Why doesn't he have it now?
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Yeah, because I thought he had it on him.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
It's called Heartsbane.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Okay, did Jorah have it?
No, he gives it on him.
It's called Hardspan.
Okay, did Jorah have it?
No, he gives it to Jorah in theend, he steals it from his
father's house.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Yeah, one of the seasons, one of the later
seasons.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Okay, yeah, I think it's season six when he goes
back to.
I'm confused.
He had Hardspan, the ancestralsword of his house.
Had Hardsbane, the ancestralsword of his house, that's when
they go visit his father inseason six.
On their way to Old Town.
Old Town, what is it called,though, to be?
(42:56):
What is the place?
Speaker 2 (42:58):
The Maester Place.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
Yeah, yeah, the Maester Place.
The Maester Place, that's,that's where they, they go up to
the citadel yeah, citadel,there you go.
And where does he live?
I forget his hometown.
Hornham there you go.
(43:22):
That's when they go.
They're riding on their way tothe citadel.
That's when he steals Heartbaneand he gives it to Jorah in
Season 8.
Anyway, so this is a big partof the story, of the overall
story we have at this point ofthe series.
How many times have we seen aWhite Walker Like three?
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Maybe four.
Yeah, I guess so.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
So this is maybe the fourth time we've seen one.
Uh, well, john saw one inseason two, right, but it didn't
really attack.
This is the first time we seelike a white walker attacking
somebody.
Uh, we saw one in season one inthe first, the prologue of the
series, but yeah, we just seethem coming up behind somebody
(44:06):
and chopping their head off.
These people are invincible.
How can you kill them?
Obviously, we get to see thatdragonglass and then it won't be
for another four seasons.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah, imagine.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
But it was a cool moment.
It was like, oh man, this ishow we get to defeat the one
true enemy we have for the whole, the whole world.
Good scene, good, uh uh.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
Sound visuals of the crows are very loud yeah, it's
such an epic scene honestly, ifyou think about, because no one
would expect sam.
So this is like pure drama.
No one would expect sam to, yes, be the one to kill White
Walker first on screen.
You'd be like, of course it'sJohn.
If not John, egret, you know.
Or if not, egret probably wouldhave expected it from George RR
(44:53):
Martin or what's his name,torment or something like that.
You would have never expectedit to be Sam.
Sam never would have expectedit to be Sam.
Nobody in the show.
So that's the fact that it'shim is so significant, and so
it's part of what makes Game ofThrones so epic.
Like we never expected Ned todie, we would never expect this
coming even though it seems likea minor thing, like yeah, okay
(45:14):
the person thecharacter died, it's like.
No, this changes the trajectoryof what they knew about the
White Walkers.
He uses a dragging glass tokill White Walkers and that's
what, what like, says thepresident, makes them all
understand what to find.
He gets rid of them and getsrid of this threat and what can
defeat them, because they're solike, like, undefeatable.
You know it was a word, but youknow what I mean and we know
(45:35):
that because of Sam and becauseof Sam's bravery, and it's
something that can't be like,ignored, and Sam you have this
character who's awkward, scaredand mocked relentlessly
throughout, and he becomes theliteral savior when it counts.
Of the run, yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah, so why don't we go to our favorite scene of the
episode?
Speaker 2 (45:58):
My scene probably is the Sam scene.
Like I love so many things,like so many little moments,
that scene with Marjorie andCersei and Cersei and Loras.
It's so funny, but I would sayit's the Sam scene.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
I would say that too, but I'm going to give Cersei
and the Marjorie scene Not equalbilling, but like 1A, 1b.
I just love Cersei Just givingit to Marjorie.
The performances are just sogreat, so I'm going to say that
All right.
So how about your rating forepisode 8 of season?
Speaker 2 (46:26):
3?
Maybe like an 8.5.
I feel like I'm giving it 8.5to a lot this season, but 8.5, I
can't think of anything.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
What do you think it has on IMDb?
Speaker 2 (46:38):
I know what it has on IMDb.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
Okay, it says 8.9, which is very high.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah, too high.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
I think it's too high .
In my mind I'm thinking well,you know that much happens this.
We don't see that manycharacters.
I was thinking like an 8.3, 8.4, um, but I'm just gonna do 8.5.
I think 8.9 or 9 is way toohigh.
And you know, next two episodeswe're gonna be in the nines,
for sure yeah, whether we likeit or not and that's going to be
(47:09):
a wrap on the 69th episode ofdancing with dragons.
For our 70th episode, braceyourselves because we're diving
into one of the most shockingmoments in all of westerosi
history the red wedding.
If you're enjoying our journeythrough the seven kingdoms, be
sure to subscribe, leave areview or share the podcast with
your fellow lords and ladies.
You can follow us on Instagramat dancingwith__dragons, for
(47:32):
updates, theories and more.
Until next time, peace out.
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