March 24, 2025 • 29 mins
Nate Williams and the Dangerous Life Team talk about some of the classic moral dilemmas and how they would handle them. If Nazis came to your door and you were hiding Jews in your attic, what would you say? If a loved one was tied up on a track, and some amount of people were on the other track, at what point would you allow the trolley to head towards that person? Finally, is cannibalism allowed in extreme circumstances?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Dangerous Faith Podcast.
My name is Nate Williams.
We have with me Blake, Justin,Zeke, Chloe and Spencer.
We are going through lifeboatethic moral dilemmas.
That's really what lifeboatethics is.
We are presented with variousdifficult situations, moral
(00:23):
dilemmas, and we walk throughwhat would we do in those
situations, and it'll range.
Maybe we'll get into someserious points, but also it
could be a lighthearted episodeas well, just because a lot of
this stuff is just so out there.
But anyways, we'll start outwith the Jews in the attic.
In this situation, World War II, if Nazis came up to your door,
(00:47):
they knocked on the door andthey asked you hey, are you
hiding Jews in your attic?
You're presented with the moraldilemma Do you lie and the Jews
are saved in your attic becausethe soldiers move on, or do you
tell the truth, as we're oftentold to do, as Christians, and
(01:08):
the Jews are discovered andthey're taken away?
Justin, I wanted to pass it toyou because in the group chat
you had an answer that I believesolved all of this.
What?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
was that answer, justin, absolutely.
So what he said was we've gotthe trolley problem and the Jews
in the attic Trolley problem isnext.
But here's the answer you justbuild a track up to the attic
and then it runs over all theJews and then you know, problem
solved.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, so that would be Justin's pioneering never
heard before answer to both thetrolley problem and the Jews in
the attic dilemma.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Then you don't need to feel guilty.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
That is one of the possible results.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
You don't have to lie .
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Don't have to lie, that's true, blake.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Oh, are we just saying our answer now?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Okay, I would pull.
Oh, what's that girl's name,not Reba?
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Rahab.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Rahab.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Reba McIntyre.
I was thinking, reba McIntyre.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Let's just say, for this example, it was Reba in the
Bible.
So when Reba pointed thosepeople away to keep the other
people from dying no, don't takethat away from me.
When Reba, oh my gosh, rahab,when Rahab, I would do that, I
would pull Rahab Because it wasaccredited to her.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
So, blake, you would lie to save those in the attic.
Yeah, okay, chloe.
Speaker 6 (02:33):
Yeah, I would say the same, and it's funny because
You'd be Reva as well.
Yeah, yeah, it's funny becausein my devotion for today it's
actually the story of Rahab,which I thought was interesting
for this podcast.
But, like Blake said, rahab washonored and she was listed in
the lineage of Jesus, and so Idon't know.
To me that's just saying thatit's okay in certain situations
(02:58):
to lie to protect others.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
All right, I'm going to push back with the typical
Nathan's advocate yes, devil'sadvocate advocate and this is
where, if isaac was here, heoften takes this role.
But what happens to, let's say,telling the truth, and the
response is this trusting god todeliver the jews, you tell the
(03:20):
truth because it's the rightthing to do, and then god would
save save the Jews if that washis will.
Any responses there that y'alljust don't have enough faith
that God will pull through ifyou do the right thing, which is
to tell the truth to thesoldiers.
Speaker 6 (03:38):
Well, I guess really the only thing I can think of in
response to that is that Goduses people like us to
accomplish his plan.
So, like, I get what you'resaying, but at the same time it
seems kind of cruel to just belike, oh yeah, they're right
here and then watch them go totheir death.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
I don't know.
I just asked someone what doyou think about Rahab's story?
Like it was included for areason so you would tell the
Nazis at the door what do youthink about Rahab's story?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Like it was included for a reason, so you would tell
the Nazis at the door.
What do you think about Rahab'sstory?
Speaker 4 (04:08):
I would.
That's exactly what I'd say tothe Nazis.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Hey, a Bible study might be good in that moment.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Yeah, You're like, hey, I don't think that's what I
would do.
Yeah, Forget like pointing themto where the Jews are.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
This isn't you.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
This isn't you this isn't you, they'd probably kill
you.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I think Mercury is in retrograde.
Right now, you're not yourself.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
One thing I would bring up in response to those
things, those types ofholier-than-thou responses.
In Exodus 20, when it goes overthe great commandments, I think
the wording is very interestingExodus 20, verse 16.
We often think of it as thoushalt not lie, but that's not
what it says.
(04:50):
It says you shall not givefalse testimony against your
neighbor.
It's legal language and howit's been explained to me with
ethics is in a court of law,with a just judge and with a
jury, they deserve to know thetruth.
And in the court of law youtell the truth because that's
(05:13):
the appropriate situation.
Those Nazi soldiers looking todo great evil, they don't
deserve the truth.
The truth is not required there.
It's not a false testimony ifyou lie to them because of their
evil intentions, because it'slike a court of law language
that's used here.
Spencer.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
I see the facial expression You're not convinced.
No, I'm convinced.
But you're saying in allcircumstances, outside of a
courtroom, you can lie tosomeone.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yes, no, no you tell –in says yes you tell the truth
to those who deserve the truth,and if someone comes in with
evil intentions, it ispermissible to lie to them.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
To save a life.
What if you don't know theirintentions in this situation?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
just lie all the time like like in this situation of
the nazis.
We know their intentions do.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
We though do.
Because you have somebody likeJustin who agrees with the Nazis
.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
That's why she hit his head right.
I mean, you wanted to build thetrolley track up there Just for
peace, man.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Just for peace.
They're not going to be madabout the Jews in the attic if
there's no Jews.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Hopefully, by turning it to you, you will grant us
great wisdom in this situation.
I think, what do you think,Zeke?
Speaker 5 (06:29):
I think we are all answering like this because we
get tripped up, because it's atheoretical problem for us.
Now I think if any of us wereput in a situation, I think we
would immediately lie and wewouldn't take a second thought
about it.
You know, imagine one of yourloved ones was the ones in the
attic and they're coming to killthem.
You would lie in an instanceand you might be like, yeah, I
(06:50):
probably shouldn't have lied.
But my point is going to beessentially that, yes, even
let's say you're wrong about the, I agree with you on the legal
thing, but let's say you'rewrong, let's just say lying in
general is a bad thing.
We would or wrong and just saylying in general is a bad thing.
(07:13):
Could we would hopefully agreethat murdering a bunch of people
is a worse thing than lying.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
So I'm gonna allow myself to do the lesser evil to
protect from the greater evil.
Another aspect, oh, before Iget to that, justin, do you have
any thoughts?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
it's not a good thought.
It's a good thought.
It's a good thought, is it?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
is it a thought I will have to edit out later?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
No, okay, no, it's not at all, so you don't got to
worry about the Jews in theattic if they in the basement
you put them down there, putthem in the basement.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
That's right, let's go, I got it, oh my.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
God, I solved the problem.
When they go high, we go low,but don't get high.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
that's true, that's of the devil so Justin's
solution is don't hide the Jewsin the attic.
Hide them in the basement.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
That will definitely save the attic what if we put
them in the bathroom or thebathroom?
Speaker 5 (08:00):
I think we're starting to see we can put them
anywhere but the attic.
So when the Nazis ask are youhiding Jews in your attic?
You don't have to lie.
I think we're starting to seewe can put them anywhere but the
attic, yes.
So when the Nazis asked,because they specifically asked
for the- attic.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Are you hiding Jews in your attic?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
You don't have to lie .
Speaker 1 (08:10):
No soldiers?
We're hiding them in thebasement.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Anyways, Okay bro.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
You good, lonely not in that attic.
You good, bro the other movingin a more serious note for just
a moment, we'll move to thetrolley problem next.
But there is a Jewish ethicalprinciple called Pekua Nefesh,
which is the overridingprinciple of saving a life.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Justin, let me finish my thoughts.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I just want to hear it in English Saving life.
Oh good, that's my boo's cousin, that is Anyways.
Oh good, that's my boo's cousin.
That is Anyways.
So the ethical principle isthis where you do what you
should do in most normalsituations, but if there comes a
time when you have to dosomething that would otherwise
be considered bad, such as lying, the overriding principle is
(09:00):
it's acceptable if it's to savea life.
To save a life overrides theother things.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
Who came up?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
with that.
It's just a Jewish ethicalprinciple.
So you say it's to save a life.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
What does that make me?
I came up with it on my own, sowhat does that make me?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Brilliant.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
You have to announce this, because it sounds like
you're casting a spell wheneveryou say that.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, you come in there and say Hak.
You say that.
Yeah, you come in there and sayHakuna.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Matata, I'm doing it to you Now.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Things are floating in the room.
How do you say it?
Pekua.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Nefesh, pekua Nefesh.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Gesundheit.
These are not the Jews you'relooking for.
These are not the Jews you'relooking for.
They are non-Maitic.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Now alright for full disclosure.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I am partially Jewish , so anyways, and Asian and
Asian and Asian, nate's greatgrandfather was the one who came
up with that rule he wastalking about.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Bakula.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Nefesh.
Hakuna Matata yeah, that wasright.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
All right, anyways, and so that's just something to
consider.
Another example would be ifyour spouse is dying and there's
only one vial of medicine youcan grab, is it acceptable to
steal from a store to go getthat expensive medicine to save
your dying spouse?
People would say, yes, stealingis acceptable in order to save
the life of your spouse.
(10:12):
Just other scenarios you canthink of.
Alright, let's move to thetrolley problem now, because we
just had such wisdom with thefirst scenario.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Dude, you knew this podcast was not going to be
wisdom heavy.
You and Zeke are going to haveto carry this.
I've had some great wisdom.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
I'm too focused on.
I just solved the whole.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Thing.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
Ding.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
Yeah the ding Trolley problem.
It's not as bad as Quazy Quazy.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Alright with this one .
There are different ways ofsetting it up, but, okay, a
trolley is going down the tracksand eventually you have an
option to change onto adifferent set of tracks.
So you have option A, which isjust keep it going straight.
Option B turn it over to theside, in another direction.
Ahead of the tracks, you havethe person you love the most.
(11:01):
So all of us you don't have tosay it Think of the one person
in life you love the most, aboveeveryone else.
Okay.
Second for Zeke Zeke is holierthan us, so, zeke, the person
you love the second most Okay.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
The Holy Spirit of Patrick.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Is there anyone on the other side of the tracks?
Or, or, or, or?
How many people would have tobe on the other side of the
track?
Stranger friends, whatever?
We can get into differentspecifics Before you would
divert the trolley to go in theother direction.
(11:38):
So, on one hand, you have theperson you love the most.
On the other hand, you have anyamount of other people one
person, five people, 10 people,20 people.
At what point are you like?
I'm sorry, my favorite person,you have to go because the
amount of people on the otherside, anyone want to get us
started.
What kind of trolley.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Is it Anyone want to get us started?
What kind?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
of trolley, is it the ?
I will smush you type how fastare we going?
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Fast enough, fast enough, that's too complicated.
What's that in minutes Five?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Anyone want to give it a go?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I'll say what I said earlier, nate If it was you on
one side of the track, the otherside could be clear and I would
choose you.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I'm comforted by that , but also I'm not the person
you'd love the most in life.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Are you sure?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yes, it's.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Gamora.
What if Gamora was it Everyone?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
could be on the other track.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
So how many people?
50 strangers, 100 strangers.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
I would say about a Walmart full of strangers.
So y'all put a number ofstrangers.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Oh yeah, so y'all put a number to it.
Oh well, how big is a Walmart?
It's the people in the Walmart.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Any number greater than two is fine with me.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Okay, so any number greater than two, your favorite
person dies.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Infinity.
No, no, I would choose theother people.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Wait.
So if it's one person, so if itwas one other person.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
You'd kill your favorite person.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
No, your math is messed up.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Yes, that's what you said Carry the two.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Zeke and Chloe.
Speaker 6 (13:09):
I have a question Are the other people strangers or
are they other people in my life?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Why does that matter?
Speaker 5 (13:16):
You fill it out, let's say strangers, you fill it
out.
Let's say strangers.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
How many strangers would it have to be before you
then would pick them over?
The person you love the most?
Zeke, I don't have a number.
So, chloe, 500 people, they die.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
That's just a lot of people I don't know.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
This is what we're talking about.
I don't have an answer Allright Zeke?
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Are the people on the other side saved?
Speaker 1 (13:44):
We have no idea.
Speaker 5 (13:46):
Do I have time to preach the gospel before they
get run over.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Let's see you're going down the track.
You have a few seconds.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
That's a good factor I can make this work.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
Let's see.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Dude the best answer is you just hit the person at
you, love?
Do I have a megaphone where, ifthere's like a billion people,
they can all hear me have?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
you accepted.
They have a few seconds todecide.
Is that enough?
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Guys, just be honest.
We would hit the person that welove because, as Christians, we
know the person that we loveare saved.
I would.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Hey, that is for the first time in this topic, that
is a great thought.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
That's a good point.
The person I love is saved, soI would hit that person rather
than kill somebody who I have noidea about their salvation.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So that's a good answer.
If the person you love the mostis saved, you know you're going
to see them in heaven.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Can I get on the track with my favorite person?
Speaker 1 (14:32):
No, so you would kill both of you?
Speaker 6 (14:35):
Oh, dude, I've done that I'd rather die with my
favorite person than kill myfavorite person and live without
them.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Oh, Justin's got the answer.
Speaker 6 (14:41):
Why he?
Speaker 4 (14:41):
and Zeke are going down together, so you would,
just so you'd commit suicide.
Speaker 6 (14:48):
Yeah, because we get to go to heaven together Instead
of me having to live a lifewithout him and be sad all the
time.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Zeke.
What are your?
Speaker 3 (14:54):
thoughts.
Speaker 6 (14:55):
You know there's something wrong with being sad
all the time.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I'm going to jump out of the train.
Yeah, zeke, all right, sohonestly, my answer is I don't
know what.
Speaker 5 (15:01):
I actually do, but in theory, what Blake said, if the
person my favorite person saved, so obviously if it's Chloe,
sorry Chloe, I you know.
If there's other people on theother side that's not saved,
like there's still time for them, I don't want to kill anybody.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
That.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
There's an option Go to option.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
C.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Here's what you do so you say you go left or right,
right, you put it straight inthe middle and you run right off
the track.
Wow, and you save them.
Wow, see, I'm solving all theproblems.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Spencer, either way, you're murdering someone or you
put a penny on the tracks and itderails.
Either way, you're murderingsomebody, so it's like fair.
Is suicide really that bad inthe midst of?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
murdering someone, it's adding another person.
What if?
Speaker 6 (15:45):
you put it towards the person you love, jumped out,
pushed them out of the way andthen everybody's sent and this
just defeats the trolley problem.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Well, if you could push them out of the way, you
wouldn't have the problem.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, problem, I can't give you an answer?
Speaker 1 (16:03):
That completely, spencer.
That's the cop-out.
That's the cop-out, spencer,just be honest.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Your answer, spencer, is you would let the track go
whichever way it's alreadypointing, because you don't want
to make a decision.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
But that is a decision.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Look guys.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
First of all, none of us are train conductors.
I don't see us wearing the hats.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
Fun fact, they actually did this experiment on
this without killing people.
But what they had is I think itwas on Brain Games they
essentially built the trolleyproblem and they hired someone
to stay in the control room.
They didn't know they were partof the experiment and the guy
told them only push this buttonif you need to divert the track,
(16:41):
for some reason, and on thecamera that they could see the
tracks on, they put people onthere just standing there and
made them think that, literally,if they had to pick between
five people and one person,that's traumatizing.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
That's an awful game it's not like a real game.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
Their purpose is to see what the human mind would do
put in a certain situation.
I'd be scarred.
Oh, it'd be very traumatizing.
Speaker 6 (17:05):
You're going off stress too, and you don't act
normally in stress, so I don'treally know what I would do in
that situation.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
So, from the sound of it, blake would choose to go
straight kill the person heloves the most, because he'll
see this person in heaven.
Yeah so heaven, you two same.
It sounds like Chloe and Zekesame.
Spencer is copping out by notanswering, which is a wuss thing
to do?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I can't do it, and then I would throw a penny on
the track so it derails a train.
Justin, what would you do,would you?
Speaker 1 (17:36):
kill some number of strangers, or would you choose
to kill the person you love themost?
You did say if there's morethan two.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I think you'd need to take off your headphones,
because I told you to answer.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yes, but your answer didn't make sense.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
So I'm asking you to re-say it.
Yeah, you're not very accurate.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I guess I would do the one with the one person.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
Okay, what accent are y'all doing?
Speaker 4 (17:59):
That's just our normal accent.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
That's the boo-boo voice right there all right,
okay, zeke, I had a thought.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
Yes, what was it though?
I remembered it twice now, buty'all keep derailing me, sorry
derailing.
No pun intended I'll come backin a minute Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
All right, next situation.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Next question Question I'm changing this up on
y'all because I just thought ofit in the moment, all right.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
You are in oh, I remembered.
Okay, wow, that was close, allright.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Oh, it's happening, afterwards, though, go.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
Yes, so this is actually a real-life
circumstance where people had tojust okay.
Richard Wurmbrand and his wifeSabrina I believe they were
Carpenter.
Yes, close enough, they wereduring World War II or I.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
They were World War II.
Okay, so World.
War Hold on Time out.
I think they were afterwardsduring the communist reign.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
Yeah, anyways, still post-World War II, there's
people getting picked up on thestreet, taken to camps, tortured
, beaten and stuff.
And I think there's at somepoint where they agreed with
each other like, hey, we're notgoing to talk, no matter if they
threaten, if they are torturingthe other one of us, we don't
talk, the lives of all theseother people are more important.
Other one of us, like, we don'ttalk, like the lives all these
other people are more importantthan one of us dying and
(19:25):
honestly like that.
Both of them went through andthey've been tortured a ton and
they never talked through theentire thing.
So, like just at the start ofbefore this ever happened, they
agreed like we're christians, wedie, it's all gain, we get to
go to heaven.
Um, yes, we'll'll miss eachother, but it's better that one
of us die than they killhundreds of thousands of other
people.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Yeah, I like that.
I appreciate that story.
Incredible story.
If you haven't heard about it,I know Zeke loves the Richard
Wurmbrand testimony.
Just a phenomenal book.
That's a part of it, spencer.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Can I put a twist on it?
It's very like what if you werethe person on the train tracks
that and your loved one hadchoose between you.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
What would you tell them to do?
I want them to pick me, pick me, hit me please, I'd probably
run to the train.
He doesn't need this scenario.
He'll just run into a train.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
He doesn't need this scenario.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
He doesn't need the option.
One train my loved one doesn'thave to be driving the train.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
One train on the tracks, just I'll run towards it
choose me another dilemma.
This has actually happened.
Alright, a group of you andlet's say this friend group.
Just make it real this friendgroup and it's a survival
situation.
And one person is you're out offood.
(20:47):
One person is weaker than therest.
Let's say they're dying orthey're heading in that
direction.
Is it acceptable for To savethe lives of the people in the
group, to kill the weak memberwho's dying?
And this gets dark, but usethem to help you survive for
(21:11):
food.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
So eat them.
Boom yes, cannibalism.
Let me go ahead and tell youright now I'm a meaty boy.
Okay, y'all can eat me up,y'all can do it, I would let you
.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Justin volunteers, are we on?
Speaker 5 (21:22):
an island or in a boat in this one Would Y'all can
do it, I would let you.
Justin volunteers.
Are we on an island or in aboat?
Boat Island, tundra.
I don't know if it would make adifference.
In a boat you can't like,wouldn't you die?
Speaker 3 (21:29):
If you didn't cook it , we might have to end your life
, not necessarily.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
But hey, y'all.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
We're thinking ethically.
Speaker 6 (21:35):
Yeah, are you allowed ?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
To do what you need to do to the body in order to
eat and stay alive for longer.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
For me, I don't have a lot of meat, so like you're
probably just going to get likea couple of but, but see, I'm
not even talking about that.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Would you do it?
Speaker 4 (21:50):
oh yeah no, if it was me, like if I was the one like,
as long, like justin said, aslong as you make it quick, I
don't care y'all, y'all aren't Iwould you do it.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yes, yes, I would.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
It doesn't had zero to Justin If Justin had 0%
chance of we did it playing D&DLike literally when we were
playing.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
So you think ethically it's fine, I've done
it before.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Yes, I would do it Well.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Whoa, hey, Whoa whoa, whoa In.
Speaker 6 (22:14):
Dungeons.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
Dragons.
Speaker 6 (22:15):
Chloe here's what I would do in that situation.
I would just kill myself myself.
Go be with jesus so I don'thave to eat a human and be on
the boat any longer.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
No, this is not no I mean it's a cop-out.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Oh it is, it is a cop-out.
Hey, she answered.
I said you still didn't answer.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
I get to be with jesus, instead of being stuck on
a boat about to eat human flesh.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Okay, so chloe would uh get rid of herself, all right
y'all can eat me, is it?
Ethically allowed in thissituation.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
It's gross either way .
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Would you do it and is it allowed?
Speaker 5 (22:48):
I hate this one more than the other two.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Just say yes, jeffrey Dahmer didn't think it was
allowed.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
Is the person that's dying, saying yes, you can kill
me and eat me.
Or are they just like?
Speaker 1 (22:59):
I'm assuming they're out for the count.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
Yeah, if that's part of it.
If they are cosigning this, ohgosh, it'd be so awful.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
But yeah, I guess it would be ethically okay.
Look okay, Zeke says it'sethically okay.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
The eating part I'm not okay with.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
That's like you really gotta be in a, I'm
assuming that you haven't seenland in weeks and you're all
about to die if you don't dosomething.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
That's my assumption.
Why can't nobody catch fish?
That's what I'm wondering.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
I mean, yeah, I would have to be desperate.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I can't catch fish, just no other options is the
point of it.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
If this is the last resort of all things.
Spencer, you copped out of thelast one, so you can't do it
twice.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Is it ethically allowed to do that to the person
?
Speaker 5 (23:42):
We will make you do whatever you choose, all right.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
There is no cop out, I can't decide.
Yeah, probably Probably eat theperson, so ethically allowed to
eat the person.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Wow, I don't know if there would be any thoughts of
ethics in the situation.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
Probably not, there wouldn't be.
Speaker 6 (23:58):
Honestly, we're probably all going to be
hallucinating by that point.
Yeah, you'd be going crazy.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
But outside of it, I guess ethically.
I don't know if it'd beethically right, though, but it
would be like survival wise yeahbut so you would do it.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Okay, At least you answered Nate what would you do?
Honestly, I might take theChloe route.
What was that?
Speaker 6 (24:26):
well, the good thing about my route is that y'all can
eat me, but I think we allagree we would take that route.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
So let's say that only the two of us said we would
.
No, they all kept saying it andyou're like no answer.
Answer.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
I was wondering ethically is it?
Right, I would say ethically itis acceptable again to save a
life.
Yeah, hakuna matata.
But also I don't think I wouldin that situation.
I'd be ready to see Jesus?
Speaker 4 (24:52):
I mean I agree, look, minus the eating part, because
I've thought about this one alot, because, like I'm telling
you, zombie apocalypse, well,first off, my actual thing in a
zombie apocalypse is I'm runninghead first into a zombie
because I'm not sticking aroundto go through that.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
but if I had, if I had no choice but to survive?
Speaker 4 (25:10):
and I've thought about this situation.
Like me and Justin, we werepartnered up right.
Justin gets bit or breaks hisleg and they're like there's
just no way like we're gonna beable to save.
Save him, oh dude.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I'm shooting.
You can't save me from a brokeleg.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
No, if you're being chased, uh-uh, I broke your
pinky.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Justin, you broke your pinky.
I'm sorry.
We're going to have to kill you, Justin, it would literally be
like you break your leg.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
we're getting chased and you're like, pick me up.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I go bang and keep running.
Yeah, I would hope you would dothat.
I would say you gotta get ridof me, you can't be alive.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
I'd rather that than be my zombie.
I wouldn't leave you to getmauled by the zombies.
I would at least put you out ofyour misery first and I'd make
it quick.
But I'm not.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Maybe I've got an.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
AK-47 and I can take.
It reminds me of a Hunger Gamessituation, the one where the
arena was a clock, if y'all willremember that I remember.
Okay, you remember that Chloeand one of the main characters
had this older lady mentor thathe really loved yes.
But she was kind of holding himback, yeah.
(26:17):
So as he was running away tosafety, she kind of left him and
said you know, walk the otherway, just as.
All right, you go be safe, Igotta go.
Speaker 6 (26:25):
You know what's.
A more recent example in a showis Squid Games.
You ever go watch Squid Games.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I did not.
Speaker 6 (26:31):
They have to do a lot of that kind of decision making
where, like if there's an older, more frail person that might
be really far into the game andthey're about to like win or
whatever, they might just chooseto throw them out.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Alright, Blake and Justin, I had a lot of fun with
this conversation.
Y'all wanna take us home?
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Florida's up 70-64.
Let's go.
Speaker 5 (26:51):
They were down by 2.
What?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
a lame way to end.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Oh no, we could sing Hakuna Matata.
Speaker 5 (26:58):
Please.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
What a.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
What a minch-worthy phrase.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
Did you know Oreos were Jewish cookies?
You invented the Oreo Nate.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I did.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Congratulations.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Was that to stop?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
racism.
I got the money from it.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
You are quite the minch, my friend.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
I don't know if you're allowed to say that that
just means you're a good dude.
When you say minch, I think oflike a white Grinch.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
What Just end?
Speaker 4 (27:28):
it.
No, I'm serious, do you notthink of that?
It's like a different coloredGrinch the minch.
It's just a white Grinch, likethe Grinch is green but there's
GR in front of it.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Why wouldn't it be the winch, why wouldn't it be
the?
Speaker 4 (27:41):
witch.
Well, now you're getting intothe weeds.
Because then what if it's black?
Exactly what if it's black?
Say the word the blitch.
There ain't no L, oh wait.
Brown Blue, what color just hasB?
Purple, purple, the bridge thebench.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I have lost my cue points, just please.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Goodbye folks, bam ba-da, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba.
He already ended it.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
No, he did.
No, he did.
Oh, this is the outro.
We're good, thank you.
(28:47):
No, it's a Mitch, is a greengrant Wait.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yeah, yeah, you had it right, you had it right Green
.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Goblin.
What's the score of the Floridagame now?
Speaker 5 (29:04):
7-64.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Less than a minute left.
Goblin these cookies.
Yeah, they better win.
Keep that in.
That's the last part.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Chloe, have you become?
Speaker 6 (29:13):
an.
Speaker 5 (29:14):
Auburn fan.
How did they not score?
Speaker 6 (29:14):
No, he just did my bracket for my school and I want
to win.
Welcome to the Dangerous Faith Podcast.
My name is Nate Williams.
We have with me Blake, Justin,Zeke, Chloe and Spencer.
We are going through lifeboatethic moral dilemmas.
That's really what lifeboatethics is.
We are presented with variousdifficult situations, moral
(00:23):
dilemmas, and we walk throughwhat would we do in those
situations, and it'll range.
Maybe we'll get into someserious points, but also it
could be a lighthearted episodeas well, just because a lot of
this stuff is just so out there.
But anyways, we'll start outwith the Jews in the attic.
In this situation, World War II, if Nazis came up to your door,
(00:47):
they knocked on the door andthey asked you hey, are you
hiding Jews in your attic?
You're presented with the moraldilemma Do you lie and the Jews
are saved in your attic becausethe soldiers move on, or do you
tell the truth, as we're oftentold to do, as Christians, and
(01:08):
the Jews are discovered andthey're taken away?
Justin, I wanted to pass it toyou because in the group chat
you had an answer that I believesolved all of this.
What?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
was that answer, justin, absolutely.
So what he said was we've gotthe trolley problem and the Jews
in the attic Trolley problem isnext.
But here's the answer you justbuild a track up to the attic
and then it runs over all theJews and then you know, problem
solved.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, so that would be Justin's pioneering never
heard before answer to both thetrolley problem and the Jews in
the attic dilemma.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Then you don't need to feel guilty.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
That is one of the possible results.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
You don't have to lie .
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Don't have to lie, that's true, blake.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Oh, are we just saying our answer now?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Okay, I would pull.
Oh, what's that girl's name,not Reba?
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Rahab.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Rahab.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Reba McIntyre.
I was thinking, reba McIntyre.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Let's just say, for this example, it was Reba in the
Bible.
So when Reba pointed thosepeople away to keep the other
people from dying no, don't takethat away from me.
When Reba, oh my gosh, rahab,when Rahab, I would do that, I
would pull Rahab Because it wasaccredited to her.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
So, blake, you would lie to save those in the attic.
Yeah, okay, chloe.
Speaker 6 (02:33):
Yeah, I would say the same, and it's funny because
You'd be Reva as well.
Yeah, yeah, it's funny becausein my devotion for today it's
actually the story of Rahab,which I thought was interesting
for this podcast.
But, like Blake said, rahab washonored and she was listed in
the lineage of Jesus, and so Idon't know.
To me that's just saying thatit's okay in certain situations
(02:58):
to lie to protect others.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
All right, I'm going to push back with the typical
Nathan's advocate yes, devil'sadvocate advocate and this is
where, if isaac was here, heoften takes this role.
But what happens to, let's say,telling the truth, and the
response is this trusting god todeliver the jews, you tell the
(03:20):
truth because it's the rightthing to do, and then god would
save save the Jews if that washis will.
Any responses there that y'alljust don't have enough faith
that God will pull through ifyou do the right thing, which is
to tell the truth to thesoldiers.
Speaker 6 (03:38):
Well, I guess really the only thing I can think of in
response to that is that Goduses people like us to
accomplish his plan.
So, like, I get what you'resaying, but at the same time it
seems kind of cruel to just belike, oh yeah, they're right
here and then watch them go totheir death.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
I don't know.
I just asked someone what doyou think about Rahab's story?
Like it was included for areason so you would tell the
Nazis at the door what do youthink about Rahab's story?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Like it was included for a reason, so you would tell
the Nazis at the door.
What do you think about Rahab'sstory?
Speaker 4 (04:08):
I would.
That's exactly what I'd say tothe Nazis.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Hey, a Bible study might be good in that moment.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Yeah, You're like, hey, I don't think that's what I
would do.
Yeah, Forget like pointing themto where the Jews are.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
This isn't you.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
This isn't you this isn't you, they'd probably kill
you.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
I think Mercury is in retrograde.
Right now, you're not yourself.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
One thing I would bring up in response to those
things, those types ofholier-than-thou responses.
In Exodus 20, when it goes overthe great commandments, I think
the wording is very interestingExodus 20, verse 16.
We often think of it as thoushalt not lie, but that's not
what it says.
(04:50):
It says you shall not givefalse testimony against your
neighbor.
It's legal language and howit's been explained to me with
ethics is in a court of law,with a just judge and with a
jury, they deserve to know thetruth.
And in the court of law youtell the truth because that's
(05:13):
the appropriate situation.
Those Nazi soldiers looking todo great evil, they don't
deserve the truth.
The truth is not required there.
It's not a false testimony ifyou lie to them because of their
evil intentions, because it'slike a court of law language
that's used here.
Spencer.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
I see the facial expression You're not convinced.
No, I'm convinced.
But you're saying in allcircumstances, outside of a
courtroom, you can lie tosomeone.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yes, no, no you tell –in says yes you tell the truth
to those who deserve the truth,and if someone comes in with
evil intentions, it ispermissible to lie to them.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
To save a life.
What if you don't know theirintentions in this situation?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
just lie all the time like like in this situation of
the nazis.
We know their intentions do.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
We though do.
Because you have somebody likeJustin who agrees with the Nazis
.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
That's why she hit his head right.
I mean, you wanted to build thetrolley track up there Just for
peace, man.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Just for peace.
They're not going to be madabout the Jews in the attic if
there's no Jews.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Hopefully, by turning it to you, you will grant us
great wisdom in this situation.
I think, what do you think,Zeke?
Speaker 5 (06:29):
I think we are all answering like this because we
get tripped up, because it's atheoretical problem for us.
Now I think if any of us wereput in a situation, I think we
would immediately lie and wewouldn't take a second thought
about it.
You know, imagine one of yourloved ones was the ones in the
attic and they're coming to killthem.
You would lie in an instanceand you might be like, yeah, I
(06:50):
probably shouldn't have lied.
But my point is going to beessentially that, yes, even
let's say you're wrong about the, I agree with you on the legal
thing, but let's say you'rewrong, let's just say lying in
general is a bad thing.
We would or wrong and just saylying in general is a bad thing.
(07:13):
Could we would hopefully agreethat murdering a bunch of people
is a worse thing than lying.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
So I'm gonna allow myself to do the lesser evil to
protect from the greater evil.
Another aspect, oh, before Iget to that, justin, do you have
any thoughts?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
it's not a good thought.
It's a good thought.
It's a good thought, is it?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
is it a thought I will have to edit out later?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
No, okay, no, it's not at all, so you don't got to
worry about the Jews in theattic if they in the basement
you put them down there, putthem in the basement.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
That's right, let's go, I got it, oh my.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
God, I solved the problem.
When they go high, we go low,but don't get high.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
that's true, that's of the devil so Justin's
solution is don't hide the Jewsin the attic.
Hide them in the basement.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
That will definitely save the attic what if we put
them in the bathroom or thebathroom?
Speaker 5 (08:00):
I think we're starting to see we can put them
anywhere but the attic.
So when the Nazis ask are youhiding Jews in your attic?
You don't have to lie.
I think we're starting to seewe can put them anywhere but the
attic, yes.
So when the Nazis asked,because they specifically asked
for the- attic.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Are you hiding Jews in your attic?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
You don't have to lie .
Speaker 1 (08:10):
No soldiers?
We're hiding them in thebasement.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Anyways, Okay bro.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
You good, lonely not in that attic.
You good, bro the other movingin a more serious note for just
a moment, we'll move to thetrolley problem next.
But there is a Jewish ethicalprinciple called Pekua Nefesh,
which is the overridingprinciple of saving a life.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Justin, let me finish my thoughts.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I just want to hear it in English Saving life.
Oh good, that's my boo's cousin, that is Anyways.
Oh good, that's my boo's cousin.
That is Anyways.
So the ethical principle isthis where you do what you
should do in most normalsituations, but if there comes a
time when you have to dosomething that would otherwise
be considered bad, such as lying, the overriding principle is
(09:00):
it's acceptable if it's to savea life.
To save a life overrides theother things.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
Who came up?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
with that.
It's just a Jewish ethicalprinciple.
So you say it's to save a life.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
What does that make me?
I came up with it on my own, sowhat does that make me?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Brilliant.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
You have to announce this, because it sounds like
you're casting a spell wheneveryou say that.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, you come in there and say Hak.
You say that.
Yeah, you come in there and sayHakuna.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Matata, I'm doing it to you Now.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Things are floating in the room.
How do you say it?
Pekua.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Nefesh, pekua Nefesh.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Gesundheit.
These are not the Jews you'relooking for.
These are not the Jews you'relooking for.
They are non-Maitic.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Now alright for full disclosure.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I am partially Jewish , so anyways, and Asian and
Asian and Asian, nate's greatgrandfather was the one who came
up with that rule he wastalking about.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Bakula.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Nefesh.
Hakuna Matata yeah, that wasright.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
All right, anyways, and so that's just something to
consider.
Another example would be ifyour spouse is dying and there's
only one vial of medicine youcan grab, is it acceptable to
steal from a store to go getthat expensive medicine to save
your dying spouse?
People would say, yes, stealingis acceptable in order to save
the life of your spouse.
(10:12):
Just other scenarios you canthink of.
Alright, let's move to thetrolley problem now, because we
just had such wisdom with thefirst scenario.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Dude, you knew this podcast was not going to be
wisdom heavy.
You and Zeke are going to haveto carry this.
I've had some great wisdom.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
I'm too focused on.
I just solved the whole.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Thing.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
Ding.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
Yeah the ding Trolley problem.
It's not as bad as Quazy Quazy.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Alright with this one .
There are different ways ofsetting it up, but, okay, a
trolley is going down the tracksand eventually you have an
option to change onto adifferent set of tracks.
So you have option A, which isjust keep it going straight.
Option B turn it over to theside, in another direction.
Ahead of the tracks, you havethe person you love the most.
(11:01):
So all of us you don't have tosay it Think of the one person
in life you love the most, aboveeveryone else.
Okay.
Second for Zeke Zeke is holierthan us, so, zeke, the person
you love the second most Okay.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
The Holy Spirit of Patrick.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Is there anyone on the other side of the tracks?
Or, or, or, or?
How many people would have tobe on the other side of the
track?
Stranger friends, whatever?
We can get into differentspecifics Before you would
divert the trolley to go in theother direction.
(11:38):
So, on one hand, you have theperson you love the most.
On the other hand, you have anyamount of other people one
person, five people, 10 people,20 people.
At what point are you like?
I'm sorry, my favorite person,you have to go because the
amount of people on the otherside, anyone want to get us
started.
What kind of trolley.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Is it Anyone want to get us started?
What kind?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
of trolley, is it the ?
I will smush you type how fastare we going?
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Fast enough, fast enough, that's too complicated.
What's that in minutes Five?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Anyone want to give it a go?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I'll say what I said earlier, nate If it was you on
one side of the track, the otherside could be clear and I would
choose you.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I'm comforted by that , but also I'm not the person
you'd love the most in life.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Are you sure?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Yes, it's.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Gamora.
What if Gamora was it Everyone?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
could be on the other track.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
So how many people?
50 strangers, 100 strangers.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
I would say about a Walmart full of strangers.
So y'all put a number ofstrangers.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Oh yeah, so y'all put a number to it.
Oh well, how big is a Walmart?
It's the people in the Walmart.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Any number greater than two is fine with me.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Okay, so any number greater than two, your favorite
person dies.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Infinity.
No, no, I would choose theother people.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Wait.
So if it's one person, so if itwas one other person.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
You'd kill your favorite person.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
No, your math is messed up.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Yes, that's what you said Carry the two.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Zeke and Chloe.
Speaker 6 (13:09):
I have a question Are the other people strangers or
are they other people in my life?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Why does that matter?
Speaker 5 (13:16):
You fill it out, let's say strangers, you fill it
out.
Let's say strangers.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
How many strangers would it have to be before you
then would pick them over?
The person you love the most?
Zeke, I don't have a number.
So, chloe, 500 people, they die.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
That's just a lot of people I don't know.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
This is what we're talking about.
I don't have an answer Allright Zeke?
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Are the people on the other side saved?
Speaker 1 (13:44):
We have no idea.
Speaker 5 (13:46):
Do I have time to preach the gospel before they
get run over.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Let's see you're going down the track.
You have a few seconds.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
That's a good factor I can make this work.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
Let's see.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Dude the best answer is you just hit the person at
you, love?
Do I have a megaphone where, ifthere's like a billion people,
they can all hear me have?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
you accepted.
They have a few seconds todecide.
Is that enough?
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Guys, just be honest.
We would hit the person that welove because, as Christians, we
know the person that we loveare saved.
I would.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Hey, that is for the first time in this topic, that
is a great thought.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
That's a good point.
The person I love is saved, soI would hit that person rather
than kill somebody who I have noidea about their salvation.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So that's a good answer.
If the person you love the mostis saved, you know you're going
to see them in heaven.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Can I get on the track with my favorite person?
Speaker 1 (14:32):
No, so you would kill both of you?
Speaker 6 (14:35):
Oh, dude, I've done that I'd rather die with my
favorite person than kill myfavorite person and live without
them.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Oh, Justin's got the answer.
Speaker 6 (14:41):
Why he?
Speaker 4 (14:41):
and Zeke are going down together, so you would,
just so you'd commit suicide.
Speaker 6 (14:48):
Yeah, because we get to go to heaven together Instead
of me having to live a lifewithout him and be sad all the
time.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Zeke.
What are your?
Speaker 3 (14:54):
thoughts.
Speaker 6 (14:55):
You know there's something wrong with being sad
all the time.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I'm going to jump out of the train.
Yeah, zeke, all right, sohonestly, my answer is I don't
know what.
Speaker 5 (15:01):
I actually do, but in theory, what Blake said, if the
person my favorite person saved, so obviously if it's Chloe,
sorry Chloe, I you know.
If there's other people on theother side that's not saved,
like there's still time for them, I don't want to kill anybody.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
That.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
There's an option Go to option.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
C.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Here's what you do so you say you go left or right,
right, you put it straight inthe middle and you run right off
the track.
Wow, and you save them.
Wow, see, I'm solving all theproblems.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Spencer, either way, you're murdering someone or you
put a penny on the tracks and itderails.
Either way, you're murderingsomebody, so it's like fair.
Is suicide really that bad inthe midst of?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
murdering someone, it's adding another person.
What if?
Speaker 6 (15:45):
you put it towards the person you love, jumped out,
pushed them out of the way andthen everybody's sent and this
just defeats the trolley problem.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
Well, if you could push them out of the way, you
wouldn't have the problem.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, problem, I can't give you an answer?
Speaker 1 (16:03):
That completely, spencer.
That's the cop-out.
That's the cop-out, spencer,just be honest.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Your answer, spencer, is you would let the track go
whichever way it's alreadypointing, because you don't want
to make a decision.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
But that is a decision.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Look guys.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
First of all, none of us are train conductors.
I don't see us wearing the hats.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
Fun fact, they actually did this experiment on
this without killing people.
But what they had is I think itwas on Brain Games they
essentially built the trolleyproblem and they hired someone
to stay in the control room.
They didn't know they were partof the experiment and the guy
told them only push this buttonif you need to divert the track,
(16:41):
for some reason, and on thecamera that they could see the
tracks on, they put people onthere just standing there and
made them think that, literally,if they had to pick between
five people and one person,that's traumatizing.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
That's an awful game it's not like a real game.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
Their purpose is to see what the human mind would do
put in a certain situation.
I'd be scarred.
Oh, it'd be very traumatizing.
Speaker 6 (17:05):
You're going off stress too, and you don't act
normally in stress, so I don'treally know what I would do in
that situation.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
So, from the sound of it, blake would choose to go
straight kill the person heloves the most, because he'll
see this person in heaven.
Yeah so heaven, you two same.
It sounds like Chloe and Zekesame.
Spencer is copping out by notanswering, which is a wuss thing
to do?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I can't do it, and then I would throw a penny on
the track so it derails a train.
Justin, what would you do,would you?
Speaker 1 (17:36):
kill some number of strangers, or would you choose
to kill the person you love themost?
You did say if there's morethan two.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I think you'd need to take off your headphones,
because I told you to answer.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yes, but your answer didn't make sense.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
So I'm asking you to re-say it.
Yeah, you're not very accurate.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I guess I would do the one with the one person.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
Okay, what accent are y'all doing?
Speaker 4 (17:59):
That's just our normal accent.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
That's the boo-boo voice right there all right,
okay, zeke, I had a thought.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
Yes, what was it though?
I remembered it twice now, buty'all keep derailing me, sorry
derailing.
No pun intended I'll come backin a minute Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
All right, next situation.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Next question Question I'm changing this up on
y'all because I just thought ofit in the moment, all right.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
You are in oh, I remembered.
Okay, wow, that was close, allright.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Oh, it's happening, afterwards, though, go.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
Yes, so this is actually a real-life
circumstance where people had tojust okay.
Richard Wurmbrand and his wifeSabrina I believe they were
Carpenter.
Yes, close enough, they wereduring World War II or I.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
They were World War II.
Okay, so World.
War Hold on Time out.
I think they were afterwardsduring the communist reign.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
Yeah, anyways, still post-World War II, there's
people getting picked up on thestreet, taken to camps, tortured
, beaten and stuff.
And I think there's at somepoint where they agreed with
each other like, hey, we're notgoing to talk, no matter if they
threaten, if they are torturingthe other one of us, we don't
talk, the lives of all theseother people are more important.
Other one of us, like, we don'ttalk, like the lives all these
other people are more importantthan one of us dying and
(19:25):
honestly like that.
Both of them went through andthey've been tortured a ton and
they never talked through theentire thing.
So, like just at the start ofbefore this ever happened, they
agreed like we're christians, wedie, it's all gain, we get to
go to heaven.
Um, yes, we'll'll miss eachother, but it's better that one
of us die than they killhundreds of thousands of other
people.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Yeah, I like that.
I appreciate that story.
Incredible story.
If you haven't heard about it,I know Zeke loves the Richard
Wurmbrand testimony.
Just a phenomenal book.
That's a part of it, spencer.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Can I put a twist on it?
It's very like what if you werethe person on the train tracks
that and your loved one hadchoose between you.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
What would you tell them to do?
I want them to pick me, pick me, hit me please, I'd probably
run to the train.
He doesn't need this scenario.
He'll just run into a train.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
He doesn't need this scenario.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
He doesn't need the option.
One train my loved one doesn'thave to be driving the train.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
One train on the tracks, just I'll run towards it
choose me another dilemma.
This has actually happened.
Alright, a group of you andlet's say this friend group.
Just make it real this friendgroup and it's a survival
situation.
And one person is you're out offood.
(20:47):
One person is weaker than therest.
Let's say they're dying orthey're heading in that
direction.
Is it acceptable for To savethe lives of the people in the
group, to kill the weak memberwho's dying?
And this gets dark, but usethem to help you survive for
(21:11):
food.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
So eat them.
Boom yes, cannibalism.
Let me go ahead and tell youright now I'm a meaty boy.
Okay, y'all can eat me up,y'all can do it, I would let you
.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Justin volunteers, are we on?
Speaker 5 (21:22):
an island or in a boat in this one Would Y'all can
do it, I would let you.
Justin volunteers.
Are we on an island or in aboat?
Boat Island, tundra.
I don't know if it would make adifference.
In a boat you can't like,wouldn't you die?
Speaker 3 (21:29):
If you didn't cook it , we might have to end your life
, not necessarily.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
But hey, y'all.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
We're thinking ethically.
Speaker 6 (21:35):
Yeah, are you allowed ?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
To do what you need to do to the body in order to
eat and stay alive for longer.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
For me, I don't have a lot of meat, so like you're
probably just going to get likea couple of but, but see, I'm
not even talking about that.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Would you do it?
Speaker 4 (21:50):
oh yeah no, if it was me, like if I was the one like,
as long, like justin said, aslong as you make it quick, I
don't care y'all, y'all aren't Iwould you do it.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yes, yes, I would.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
It doesn't had zero to Justin If Justin had 0%
chance of we did it playing D&DLike literally when we were
playing.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
So you think ethically it's fine, I've done
it before.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Yes, I would do it Well.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Whoa, hey, Whoa whoa, whoa In.
Speaker 6 (22:14):
Dungeons.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
Dragons.
Speaker 6 (22:15):
Chloe here's what I would do in that situation.
I would just kill myself myself.
Go be with jesus so I don'thave to eat a human and be on
the boat any longer.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
No, this is not no I mean it's a cop-out.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Oh it is, it is a cop-out.
Hey, she answered.
I said you still didn't answer.
Speaker 6 (22:29):
I get to be with jesus, instead of being stuck on
a boat about to eat human flesh.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Okay, so chloe would uh get rid of herself, all right
y'all can eat me, is it?
Ethically allowed in thissituation.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
It's gross either way .
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Would you do it and is it allowed?
Speaker 5 (22:48):
I hate this one more than the other two.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Just say yes, jeffrey Dahmer didn't think it was
allowed.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
Is the person that's dying, saying yes, you can kill
me and eat me.
Or are they just like?
Speaker 1 (22:59):
I'm assuming they're out for the count.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
Yeah, if that's part of it.
If they are cosigning this, ohgosh, it'd be so awful.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
But yeah, I guess it would be ethically okay.
Look okay, Zeke says it'sethically okay.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
The eating part I'm not okay with.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
That's like you really gotta be in a, I'm
assuming that you haven't seenland in weeks and you're all
about to die if you don't dosomething.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
That's my assumption.
Why can't nobody catch fish?
That's what I'm wondering.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
I mean, yeah, I would have to be desperate.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I can't catch fish, just no other options is the
point of it.
Speaker 5 (23:31):
If this is the last resort of all things.
Spencer, you copped out of thelast one, so you can't do it
twice.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Is it ethically allowed to do that to the person
?
Speaker 5 (23:42):
We will make you do whatever you choose, all right.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
There is no cop out, I can't decide.
Yeah, probably Probably eat theperson, so ethically allowed to
eat the person.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Wow, I don't know if there would be any thoughts of
ethics in the situation.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
Probably not, there wouldn't be.
Speaker 6 (23:58):
Honestly, we're probably all going to be
hallucinating by that point.
Yeah, you'd be going crazy.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
But outside of it, I guess ethically.
I don't know if it'd beethically right, though, but it
would be like survival wise yeahbut so you would do it.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Okay, At least you answered Nate what would you do?
Honestly, I might take theChloe route.
What was that?
Speaker 6 (24:26):
well, the good thing about my route is that y'all can
eat me, but I think we allagree we would take that route.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
So let's say that only the two of us said we would
.
No, they all kept saying it andyou're like no answer.
Answer.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
I was wondering ethically is it?
Right, I would say ethically itis acceptable again to save a
life.
Yeah, hakuna matata.
But also I don't think I wouldin that situation.
I'd be ready to see Jesus?
Speaker 4 (24:52):
I mean I agree, look, minus the eating part, because
I've thought about this one alot, because, like I'm telling
you, zombie apocalypse, well,first off, my actual thing in a
zombie apocalypse is I'm runninghead first into a zombie
because I'm not sticking aroundto go through that.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
but if I had, if I had no choice but to survive?
Speaker 4 (25:10):
and I've thought about this situation.
Like me and Justin, we werepartnered up right.
Justin gets bit or breaks hisleg and they're like there's
just no way like we're gonna beable to save.
Save him, oh dude.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I'm shooting.
You can't save me from a brokeleg.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
No, if you're being chased, uh-uh, I broke your
pinky.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Justin, you broke your pinky.
I'm sorry.
We're going to have to kill you, Justin, it would literally be
like you break your leg.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
we're getting chased and you're like, pick me up.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I go bang and keep running.
Yeah, I would hope you would dothat.
I would say you gotta get ridof me, you can't be alive.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
I'd rather that than be my zombie.
I wouldn't leave you to getmauled by the zombies.
I would at least put you out ofyour misery first and I'd make
it quick.
But I'm not.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Maybe I've got an.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
AK-47 and I can take.
It reminds me of a Hunger Gamessituation, the one where the
arena was a clock, if y'all willremember that I remember.
Okay, you remember that Chloeand one of the main characters
had this older lady mentor thathe really loved yes.
But she was kind of holding himback, yeah.
(26:17):
So as he was running away tosafety, she kind of left him and
said you know, walk the otherway, just as.
All right, you go be safe, Igotta go.
Speaker 6 (26:25):
You know what's.
A more recent example in a showis Squid Games.
You ever go watch Squid Games.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I did not.
Speaker 6 (26:31):
They have to do a lot of that kind of decision making
where, like if there's an older, more frail person that might
be really far into the game andthey're about to like win or
whatever, they might just chooseto throw them out.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Alright, Blake and Justin, I had a lot of fun with
this conversation.
Y'all wanna take us home?
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Florida's up 70-64.
Let's go.
Speaker 5 (26:51):
They were down by 2.
What?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
a lame way to end.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Oh no, we could sing Hakuna Matata.
Speaker 5 (26:58):
Please.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
What a.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
What a minch-worthy phrase.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
Did you know Oreos were Jewish cookies?
You invented the Oreo Nate.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I did.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Congratulations.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Was that to stop?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
racism.
I got the money from it.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
You are quite the minch, my friend.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
I don't know if you're allowed to say that that
just means you're a good dude.
When you say minch, I think oflike a white Grinch.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
What Just end?
Speaker 4 (27:28):
it.
No, I'm serious, do you notthink of that?
It's like a different coloredGrinch the minch.
It's just a white Grinch, likethe Grinch is green but there's
GR in front of it.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Why wouldn't it be the winch, why wouldn't it be
the?
Speaker 4 (27:41):
witch.
Well, now you're getting intothe weeds.
Because then what if it's black?
Exactly what if it's black?
Say the word the blitch.
There ain't no L, oh wait.
Brown Blue, what color just hasB?
Purple, purple, the bridge thebench.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I have lost my cue points, just please.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Goodbye folks, bam ba-da, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba.
He already ended it.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
No, he did.
No, he did.
Oh, this is the outro.
We're good, thank you.
(28:47):
No, it's a Mitch, is a greengrant Wait.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yeah, yeah, you had it right, you had it right Green
.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Goblin.
What's the score of the Floridagame now?
Speaker 5 (29:04):
7-64.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Less than a minute left.
Goblin these cookies.
Yeah, they better win.
Keep that in.
That's the last part.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Chloe, have you become?
Speaker 6 (29:13):
an.
Speaker 5 (29:14):
Auburn fan.
How did they not score?
Speaker 6 (29:14):
No, he just did my bracket for my school and I want
to win.
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