September 4, 2024 • 40 mins
Long Beach, CA | Unlimited champagne at brunch and unlimited ghostly encounters at night. We are diving (sorry for the super cheesy pun) into the Queen Mary's history: from its glamorous heyday as a floating palace to its secretive role during World War II to the restless spirits and scents that still haunt the ship today.
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Top Sources for this Episode Include:
-Strickland, N. (2024). Haunted queen of the seas: The living legend of the RMS Queen Mary (4th ed.). KayliMax Books.
-Ellery, D. (2021). RMS Queen Mary: 101 questions & answers about the great transatlantic liner. Bloomsbury Publishing PLC.
-Cosgrove-Meurer Productions. (1988). The unexplained: Queen Mary (Season 1, Episode 4) [TV series episode]. In Unsolved Mysteries.
-The Queen Mary: Greatest ocean liner. (2016). [Film]. Prime Video.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, dark City fans.
This is April and this is Leah.
She was nicknamed Grey Ghost,carried the biggest stars and
politicians of her time, was theplace where Winston Churchill
planned the invasion of Normandy, was part of a crash where 330
men lost their lives, and is thehome of more ghost stories than
(00:22):
you may think possible.
Today, we're talking about theocean liner the Queen Mary.
This is Dark City Season 1, losAngeles.
Leah, I have to tell yousomething.
I've been waiting to tell youthis and I don't know if you've
been on Goodreads lately, but Ifinally read the Britney Spears
(00:46):
book.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh, you did.
Oh good, I mean also.
It's so sad, but ironically Ijust updated my Goodreads.
I hadn't updated it in like ayear or something.
That's so funny.
I didn't see your update, butyeah, what did you think?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
It was really interesting.
I can't believe, like all ofthe I don't know, just all of
the horrible stuff that happenedto her and like even her
upbringing.
I know From the outside itappeared like she was from this
wholesome, happy family and itwas completely the opposite.
No wonder she had so manyissues.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Right.
I think I can't remember if Iassigned it to my book club or
if everybody just read it anyway, but I remember doing the
debrief that was the impressioneverybody had coming away from.
It was just, you really don'tknow what's going on in a
person's personal life at alland I just think of, like, in
our little dark world of truecrime and cults, how many um,
(01:44):
like families like you see thepicture and they all look great
and they look so happy but itturns out like the wife murdered
the husband or the husbandmurdered the wife and the kids
and you just really don't know.
And social media and media ingeneral is just, you know you're
getting like a very likecurated snapshot into someone's
(02:08):
life.
It's very select things.
Yeah, before we dive into theepisode, I just wanted to remind
everybody to share Dark City,share the love with your friends
, your family, anyone who youthink might like it To share it.
I think it's pretty consistentacross whatever platform you're
on, whether it's Apple Podcastsor Spotify, but usually either
(02:31):
on the episode or the showitself, there's those three dots
in the top right part of thescreen on your iPhone.
Well, at least looking at thestats, almost all of you are
listening on an iPhone, don't?
worry I don't really know muchmore than locations and devices.
On those devices, usually, likewhen you click those buttons,
you will have an option toeither copy the link or share by
(02:53):
text or social media orwhatever.
We would love it if you couldspread the word With that.
I'll turn it back over to you.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
April but that I'll turn it back over to you, april.
Okay, so let's get into thestory of the queen mary.
The queen mary was part of thecunard line of ships and was
tasked to be built by john brownand company near glasgow in
scotland.
The building of this oceanliner is often referred to as
job number 534, as the ship hadyet to be named.
(03:24):
Construction started in 1930and lasted until early 1932,
when work stopped for 27 monthsdue to the Great Depression.
Almost 14,000 people thatworked either directly or
indirectly on the Queen Marywere out of work.
Finally, in 1934, work resumedon the Queen Mary thanks to a
(03:47):
British government loan.
This became a step in the rightdirection for the British
economy, increasing share pricesin London Stock Exchange and
not to mention all of the jobsthat it created.
Again, the cost of building theQueen Mary itself at the time
was around £5 million.
The cost of building the QueenMary itself at the time was
(04:08):
around 5 million pounds, asDavid Ellery's book the RMS
Queen Mary explains.
As of 2021, the amount of moneywas equivalent to roughly 335
million pounds, or for us in theUnited States, 464 million
dollars.
So this next part I had to lookup, and that was the
designation RMS in front of theQueen Mary, which stands for
(04:29):
Royal Mail Ship.
This was because the Queen Maryat one time transported mail
between Britain and Halifax,canada, and then, I think,
eventually maybe into the US aswell.
Like there are with so manyhistorical accounts, there are
multiple versions of how theship was named.
Both that we'll talk about hadindividual stories or even a
(04:51):
melding of them, depending onwhat source it came from.
So they might all hold somecredibility, but this first one
I thought was the most fun.
The ocean liner Queen Mary wasoriginally going to be named
Victoria.
A delegation from the Coonardline, whose head was Sir Ashley
Sparks, was given permission tovisit King George V for approval
(05:14):
.
When proposing the name, sparkssaid that they wanted to name
the ship after England'sgreatest queen Present on this
day was Queen Mary, andapparently she said I would be
delighted.
So I thought that was kind offunny.
The other story I came across inthe Naming of the Ship takes
part prior to the launch of theQueen Mary.
(05:36):
On Wednesday September 26, 1934, the ship was launched into the
River Clyde in Scotland.
In honor of the launching therewere numerous dukes and
duchesses and British royals.
The other version of the namingof the ship is that the king
did not tell anyone the name ofthe ship and when Her Majesty
(05:58):
Queen Mary the person cut thesatin cord and smashed a bottle
of Australian wine on the bow,she said I am happy to name this
ship Queen Mary.
I wish success to her and toall those who sail in her.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
I like both of the stories where she's just like
thanks, this is named after menow.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, I mean, when you're the Queen of England you
can pretty much do whatever youwant.
In the book Haunted Queen ofthe Seas the Living Legend of
the RMS Queen Mary, the authorNicole Strickland writes no one
knew about her decision untilshe stepped up to the
microphones and disclosed thevessel's new name to the world.
(06:42):
I'm not sure if this is her wayof saying that any other source
that says it happened anotherway was wrong, but she says this
three different times in threedifferent ways in that section.
So she was very adamant aboutthat.
There is video footage of HerMajesty Queen Mary on this day
giving her speech.
(07:02):
That was in part of thedocumentary that I watched, so I
kind of, you know, saw it formyself, so that part is true.
Interestingly, the spillway thatthey used to launch the Queen
Mary they had to basically likebutter it up.
They used 150 tons of tallow,which is fat from animals like
(07:25):
cattle and sheep, and 50 tons ofhard soap to like launch it
into the river.
Isn't that weird that is.
So my question is did that notaffect any of the animal or
plant life in or around theriver?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
but yeah, I don't know, mean, I'm sure it did.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I don't think they were quite as conscious of those
things.
So at this point the Queen Marywas not actually finished being
built, it was more just likethe shell of it had been put
together.
It took another 18 months tomake the ship into the luxury
liner it became.
She took her actual maidenvoyage on May 27, 1936.
So the Queen Mary was prettyextravagant in her time and had
(08:14):
three class sections aboard.
The first class section couldaccommodate 776 passengers.
The second class section had784, passengers, the second
class section had 784 and in thethird class section 579.
She had 12 decks, first andsecond class swimming pools, and
(08:38):
the first class swimming pool,I think, was sometimes open to
the third class passengers forlike a brief time, and so in a
lot of references they call itthe first and third class
swimming pool, but just for thesake of not having to say that
every time, I'm just going tocall it the first class swimming
pool.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
I love that I'm going to go take a swim, but in the
third class swimming pool.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I'm not special enough for the first class, but
you can't just call it the firstclass pool Anyways.
So she had the swimming pools,she had a first class and second
class gymnasium.
Movies were shown in the firstclass lounge and the third class
smoking rooms.
There was a resident orchestraon board and wireless equipment
(09:18):
that was able to broadcast radioprograms from 38 speakers in
differing locations.
The main dining area was largerthan the New York Waldorf
Astoria Grand Ballroom.
So this was a pretty big shipand it was bigger and it was
faster than the Titanic.
So if you think about kind ofthe grandeur of that ship, this
(09:42):
one definitely rivaled that.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I was hoping to take a tour of it before we recorded
today and I just didn't get iton the calendar.
But I've at least seen it inLong Beach, where it's currently
reciting Well, you should waitfor me.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I don't know when I'm coming to see you, but I really
want to go.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I don't know if you can wait for me, but I I may not
be able to.
I could go back.
You know why?
Cause there's not just one tour, like the tour company.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Oh my gosh, there's so many.
We'll talk about all the stuffthat they do to kind of at the
end.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
It's so much cool stuff.
I know it's crazy Like to me.
I know it's crazy Like to me.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I would never want to go on a cruise.
I think I would do it.
I would go on a cruise longbefore I would sleep in the
Lizzie Borden house.
What you could talk to me talkme into going on a cruise way
more easily.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I don't know, you could talk me into sleeping at
the Lizzie Borden house.
I mean, it depends on the crowdon the cruise ship, that's all
I'm saying.
I'm just saying a dead womanwhat if it was no kids?
A dead woman who may or may nothave murdered her parents
several centuries Maybe itwasn't several centuries it's
like less scary to me than likeSeriously, I don't know.
(11:09):
There's something about itwhere I Like do you feel trapped
?
I do feel trapped.
I also can get motion sickness,so that idea I just don't like.
Like If they're big enough, Ithink you don't feel it as much.
Probably not.
And you know I did an overnightfrom Estonia to Sweden to
(11:31):
Stockholm and that was fine.
I had no issue with that.
Yeah, see, you could totally goon a cruise, but not like that
was just overnight, but extendedfor several weeks.
I don't know there's somethingabout that that just makes but
extended for several weeks.
I don't know there's somethingabout that that just makes me
feel very trapped, although I dolike the idea that you can
cover so much ground and see somany different things, because
(11:55):
it's this vessel you just goaround on, but I might skip the
Carnival Cruise.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Other luxuries on the Queen Mary included a rooftop
club, deck games first, secondand third class shopping that
ranged from spacious and highquality shops for the first
class to the third class storethat sold a variety of regular
items.
It was probably more likedrugstore type items.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
I love this like first versus third class thing.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Oh, yeah, they're like you don't.
Yeah, you can't come here.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Is there like pretty woman where they're like?
Speaker 1 (12:32):
absolutely Big mistake.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Excuse me, ma'am, I think you should be in the third
class store shopping.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Exactly, there were bank branches in various
locations of the ship, barbersand hair salons in each class
and a dog walking service forthose traveling with their pets.
And okay, get this, the dogswere kept in kennels on the
sports stack.
So okay, and they by the ship'sbutcher.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Oh, that sounds absolutely awful.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I'm sure they weren't eating their animals because
someone would notice, and Ithink they had higher standards
than that, but I just feel like,was that the best choice?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I don't know there's something about that that does
not pair nicely, and like ifLittle Muffin went missing't
know there's something aboutthat that does not pair nicely,
and like if little muffin wentmissing.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
You know she ran overboard with a dog was walking
her.
I highly doubt they ate theirdogs.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
But oh, my, that's not okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
It was just a strange choice, I had just had to throw
that in.
Yeah, so really, the amenitiesgo on and on.
They had laundry services, aprint shop, a gardener, a water
softening plant, catholic andProtestant chapels, a synagogue,
rotary Club meetings which Idon't really know what the
Rotary Club is chefs and variousrestaurants.
(14:01):
Chefs and various restaurants.
The Queen Mary also had aworking fireplace located in the
first-class smoking room, whichis a really risky luxury,
because fire on board a ship islike very serious.
It could be the ruin ofeveryone.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
It's crazy to me, even maybe it was up until like
the 80s where people could smokeon airplanes.
That's just, oh, yeah, that'sjust nuts to me, that, yeah, it
was like that yeah, it's totallyfine.
There's nothing wrong with thatI'm sure everything will be
fine like any good cruise ship.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Now she had designated children's areas.
I thought this was pretty cool.
It was true then and it's truenow, because sometimes you just
need a little time away.
You know, all three classes hadtheir own designated area on
the corresponding decks.
So the first class children'sarea had a built-in slide with
three caves beneath it, a loghut and a movie area where the
(14:59):
kids could watch cartoons.
The second area had an airplanethat ran on a wire to make it
look like it was flying overheadand a large model train that
ran around three walls of theroom.
And the poor third class kidsSorry, the third class
children's area.
(15:19):
The room was much more simpleand it was said to look more
like a classroom than a playroom, which is kind of sad to me.
Oh my gosh, I know right.
Of course, all three had othertoys and games in them too, so
it's not like they were limitedby what they had.
Yeah, none of these playroomsexist on the Queen Mary today
because of the many overhaulsthat were to happen in the
(15:42):
upcoming years, and we'll kindof talk about that.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I really want to see the caves.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I know there's pictures, okay.
So yeah, there's pictures outthere, cool.
So the decor on board waspredominantly art deco, with
just a little bit of art Nauvoo.
And when I read this, my braininstantly went to the movie.
There's Something About Mary,do you remember?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
this movie.
I just love that.
The movie is there's SomethingAbout Mary.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Oh my gosh, I didn't even make that correlation.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Sorry that's cheesy, but still Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Okay, so here's where it all ties together.
So Cameron Diaz's character isnamed Mary and she's dating this
private investigator played byMatt Dillon Ben Stiller is kind
of the main character in themovie and he hires Matt Dillon,
or Matt Dillon's character, toinvestigate Mary before he tries
(16:42):
to reconnect with her.
But Matt Dillon, as theinvestigator, falls in love with
her and for whatever reason, heposes as an architect, and so
on one of their dates they go toan architectural art show and
she asks him if the art show ismore Art Deco or more Art
Nouveau, and so it just clicked.
(17:04):
So I completely broke frominvestigating the history of the
Queen Mary and I did a littlebit of deep dive on Art Deco and
Art Nouveau and I'll give youjust a brief summary and
afterwards you'll be able toanswer that question which one
is it?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Okay, good Life skills.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Okay.
So Art Nouveau came first andwas popular in the 1890s to
1910s.
It was inspired by more naturalforms like flower and plant
stalks, insects', wings andsometimes aquatic themes.
This artistic style utilizedlong lines that swirl or curve,
and art pieces were asymmetrical.
(17:46):
This was an intellectualmovement against earlier art
forms and sought to unify artseen in furnishings,
architecture and decorativethings.
So it was more like beauty innature and not in the new
industrialism that was kind ofcoming about at that time, in
the new industrialism that waskind of coming about at that
(18:07):
time.
Art deco started in Paris in1910, but gained popularity in
Europe and the US in the 1920sand 30s.
Art deco utilized metals withpointed edges, rounded and arch
tops.
Objects were symmetrical andthere was a simplicity to them.
So think of like the Chryslerbuilding, the Empire State
Building or the style of themovie the Great Gatsby.
It was meant to highlightglamour, luxury and
(18:30):
technological progress.
This art style grew as ArtNouveau was thought to be
old-fashioned.
So, just like the skinny jeansera has transitioned into the
mom jeans era, there you are, ohmy gosh, I wonder if they call
them mom jeans.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Hey, gen Zers, they do, they do.
Yes, they're mom jeans.
So why are they wearing them?
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Because they weren't alive when they were out of
fashion.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
That's why they didn't see the Saturday Night
Live skit.
Make them mom jeans, oh gosh.
Make them mom jeans, oh gosh.
I'm like, oh, I am so gladthey're starting to go out of
style and I am so beyondthrilled because I feel like
they make you look worse not you, but like me, that's all I'm
(19:19):
saying yeah that's our bestadvice, but as a side note I
still wear skinny jeans, so thatmeans we're old in the fashion
world.
I do very much like, though.
Um, I like the boot cut and Ilike like the wide like pants
that are coming back.
I think those are really cute,basically, and they're comfy and
it needs to be mid-rise.
Oh, I was going to say onething about Art Deco before we
(19:41):
move around.
So, like Los Angeles City Hall,that's one of the more
well-known buildings in theskyline here in Los Angeles, but
that's Art Deco.
I personally hate Art Deco.
I do not like it Really.
Oh, I think it's kind of cool.
Oh, I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
I think I like hints of it.
I don't know if I'd likeeverything in that style, but,
like I don't know, earrings thatare designed like 1920s art
deco, like jewelry, I think isreally super cool, okay, yeah,
so just not in architecture.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, like if my whole house was that way.
I don't think I'd like it.
Yeah, yeah, like if my wholehouse was that way.
I don't think I'd like it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay.
So to further speak of thegrandeur of the ship, there were
a slew of interior designers,artists, sculptors, painters and
other craftsmen that completedmurals and paintings, wood
paneling, carvings andinstallation of other opulent
(20:43):
decor.
Celebrities were often aboardthe ship, and here are a handful
.
Okay, let's see who yourecognize Leah, Winston
Churchill, Bob Hope, Bing Crosby, Fred Astaire, Elizabeth Taylor
, Greta Garbo, Walt Disney,Jimmy Stewart, Harpo, Marx and
(21:06):
Laurel and Hardy.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
I recognize almost all of those.
I'm guessing they were not inthe third class with the
plebeians.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
With the plebeians?
No, they were not Okay.
So for the rest of you, if youdon't know who they are.
Google it Out of everyone.
I'm sure everybody knows whoWalt Disney is, but I also
really hope that you know whoWinston Churchill is.
I need to say a special thankyou, though, to my mom, who,
(21:38):
about 10 years ago, gave me thecomplete DVD collection of
Laurel and Hardy for Christmas,so I know who they are.
Okay, we're going to get alittle more serious here.
In the documentary the QueenMary Greatest Ocean Liner, there
were also stories of Jewishfamilies that fled from Europe
(22:00):
to America as Hitler rose topower.
One particular story gave megoosebumps, and I listened to it
a couple of times and then likewriting this out and rereading
it.
Every single time it gives megoosebumps.
It's just a good story, okay.
(22:23):
So here it is.
There was a family that hadbought last minute tickets for
the Queen Mary, but the familyhad to travel from Germany to
France to be able to board theship.
They traveled via train, andwhen they got to the border of
Germany and France, the trainstopped and the Gestapo boarded.
Passports were checked and, ofcourse, there were problems with
the family's papers.
Eventually, that evening, thefamily was let go, but this stop
(22:45):
in the trip made the family toolate to be able to get onto the
Queen Mary in time in time.
The father of this family wentto the person in charge on the
train and begged him totelegraph the captain of the
Queen Mary and tell him whathappened and ask him would he
wait for them?
By this time there were 2000passengers already on the Queen
(23:07):
Mary and it was pretty muchready to leave.
The captain waited six hoursfor that family to be able to
board, and so one of the sons inthe family told the story and
he was, I guess, six years oldat the time, and in the
documentary he says unbelievablemiracles happen.
(23:27):
The guy that was telling thisstory described seeing the
Statue of Liberty and he he saidwhen the family saw it they
felt free.
It was just, I don't know, kindof heartwarming.
World War II changed things forthe ship.
On September 2nd 1939, the shipwas ordered to go on full war
(23:49):
alert and the next day when thewar officially started in Europe
, all UK ocean liners wereordered not to use any routine
trade routes.
When these orders came in, theQueen Mary was still out to sea.
By September 5th the ship hadpulled into Pier 90 in New York
City without any danger Due tothe war, it was fated to sit for
six months in the same place.
(24:10):
There was not only fear ofattack from German submarines in
the Atlantic, but also someintelligence reports pointed to
Nazi operatives in New Yorkplanning to set fire or blow up
the ship.
During the war, hitler evenoffered a reward for any German
U-boat captain that could sinkthe Mary.
Finally, the British Ministry ofWar Transport summoned the
(24:32):
ocean liner to assist withduties associated with the war.
In order to make the ship ready, she was painted gray as a
means of camouflage.
This earned the ship thenickname of the Gray Ghost.
The inside had to be convertedas well.
Artwork and extravagantfurnishings were removed and
covered up in order to addtoilets, sinks, bunks, showers
(24:53):
and other necessities on theship.
The observation deck housedbunks that were five beds high.
The sun deck gained guns, rocketlaunchers and other defensive
weaponry, including a degaussingstrip which makes a ship
basically invisible to magneticmines.
The main technique used indefense came from the ship's
(25:15):
speed, which she was known for.
The Queen Mary had won the blueribbon for speed more than once
.
The primary role of the QueenMary at this time was to carry
British and Australian troopsfrom one place to another to aid
in the war effort.
At times there were 15,000troops on board.
(25:35):
By the time the war was over,the ship had carried almost a
million soldiers, includingwomen from the Women's Army
Corps, and after the US enteredthe war, the Queen Mary also
transported American troops.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I didn't know that's how it got the nickname the gray
ghost.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, I didn't know that either until I.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
I figured it probably was a reference to one of the
many ghost stories.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Right, yeah, yeah.
So so far things have beengoing pretty well for the Mary.
But on October 2nd 1942, theQueen Mary and six other
destroyers were being escortedto Scotland by another ship, the
Curacaoa.
On this date there were 15,000aboard the Mary and 439 aboard
(26:26):
the Curacaoa.
Because of the slower speed ofthe Curacaoa and the Mary,
sailing in a zigzag pattern toconfuse enemy ships, the Queen
Mary ended up surpassing herescort ship and the captain of
the Curacaoa didn't know exactlywhen the Queen Mary was going
to change course, according toauthor Nicole Strickland.
(26:46):
To add to this, the QueenMary's compass was off by two
degrees, which altered each ofthe captain's calculations.
So at 2.14 pm, the Queen Maryhit the Curacaoa and sliced it
in half.
Now, at this time, the QueenMary had strict orders to stop
(27:07):
under no conditions, because ifthey did, they'd be a sitting
target for the German U-boats.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Oh, that's horrific.
I can't imagine for everybodyon that ship.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yes, so the other destroyers and their convoy were
contacted to help in an effortto pick up survivors, but
ultimately the Queen Mary didnot stop, so the Curacaoa was
sunk within five minutes of thecrash.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Oh, that's horrible.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah, and the Queen Mary only had damage to the bow
that was later repaired, likewith concrete, and that I think
eventually they fixed it again.
But 338 men died as a result ofthe crash and 101 men survived.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
That's horrific.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Isn't that awful, and it was just like miscalculation
.
And this incident was coveredup well, until the war was over
too, so a lot of people didn'tknow about this when it happened
.
So after the war was over,troops were brought home on the
Queen Mary.
That was one of her jobs.
But also coming home on theQueen Mary not at the same time,
(28:12):
though, but also coming home onthe Queen Mary not at the same
time, though were 22,000 warbrides and their children, so
the ship was again repurposed toaccommodate the new population
on board.
Following this time, the QueenMary was again refurbished and
restored to her former glamorousself Feeding.
Ahead to 1965, the majority oftransatlantic travel was by
(28:33):
airplane, and travel by oceanliners was not as popular of an
option.
It took more food, more time,more gas.
In 1967, the Queen Mary tookher final voyage from
Southampton.
There is much debate over thefate of the Queen Mary, but in
the end the city of Long Beachpaid $3.45 million for the Queen
(28:55):
Mary to be used as a museum andhotel, and then I'm pretty sure
the city spent even more moneytrying to refurbish, repair,
just because the ship was as oldas it was.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Oh sure.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
So it really turned out to be much more than that,
and then now I think there's afoundation for it.
Today, the Queen Mary is openfor tours.
You can book a stay in theportion set up as a hotel.
You can book events likeweddings and meetings, and there
are a number of dining options.
And, very importantly, when Ido come out and I visit the ship
(29:30):
and you come with me, they havea Royal Sunday brunch with
quote free flowing champagne.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Oh done.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I love champagne, so let's do it, they also have.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
oh, go ahead, I'm in.
I don't care how many ghostsare on the ship.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Me too.
I just want to go there.
That's like I feel like that'sreally big for me to say that,
but I really want to go.
Okay, they also have wine andpaint nights, karaoke,
margaritas on the merry, whichis like a happy hour.
They just have so many coolevents.
That's not even all of them.
I just really want to go thereand hang out.
They have all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I didn't realize they had that much stuff.
I just knew about all theghosts.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
There is so much history on this ship and really
that's an understatement.
As always, there was so muchmore information that I just
couldn't include.
But how do you have this muchglitz and glamour, joy,
excitement and tragedy withoutleaving some of that energy
behind?
Enter the ghost stories of theQueen Mary.
(30:38):
So this is going to soundcompletely ridiculous, but as I
was researching and readingbooks on the Queen Mary, I came
across a picture of thefirst-class swimming pool and I
knew instantly that I had seenit before and I remembered it
from this episode of UnsolvedMysteries from when I was a kid.
(31:00):
I Googled it because I had tofind out and I don't know why it
stuck with me.
I think because ghosts havealways like terrified me, but
also like I can't look away,kind of thing.
From this episode I rememberthe look of the pool.
It had, like the two staircasescoming down the side.
(31:22):
There was a story of a littlegirl that was a ghost, that like
they recreated in the show,that like would play and splash
in the water, and then therewere these footprints like on
the splash in the water and thenthere were these footprints
like on the deck outside thepool.
Naturally, I made my wholefamily watch this episode with
me.
After I told them about how Ilike completely, I was like I
(31:44):
know the swimming pool.
In the episode they interviewedstaff that worked on the Queen
Mary and they told kind of theirown stories of their own
ghostly encounters.
They had paranormalinvestigators come on and
investigate on the ship.
So it was really interesting tolike watch it and I was like,
oh my God, this is what Iremember.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I do vaguely remember that Unsolved Mysteries episode
, and that might've been where Igot really intrigued with this
ship way back in the day.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
And it's so funny as I was reading about some of
these like ghost stories.
I knew them already but I don'tknow how, so I think maybe it
was like from that episodebecause a lot of them were in
that episode of the show.
Nicole Strickland's book has somuch great history and ghost
stories within it.
Not only has she hadexperiences herself on the ship,
(32:34):
which she talks about in herbook, but she summarizes some of
the stories and she usesstories that people have
directly submitted from theQueen Mary archives.
We're going to start at theswimming pool with a little girl
ghost.
Her name is Jackie and she'sroughly around age five or six
(32:54):
and she's been heard singing andlaughing.
In the episode of UnsolvedMysteries, the employee tells
the story of hearing splashingand then seeing those wet
footprints that we talked aboutthat name drowning or passing
(33:16):
away in this area of the ship.
There's also a story from thearchives that was similar to
this account where a husband andwife were touring the ship and
heard splashing sounds and thensaw wet footprints, and I don't
think I've said this before, butthe pool has been drained for a
long time just because of likethe bottom was, I don't know,
wearing out basically, like thebottom was, I don't know,
(33:37):
wearing out basically, and atthe time that the husband and
wife were there touring it wasdrained.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Then, too, I don't I.
There's something about childghosts that I hate.
I don't know why.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I mean, I feel like they're not going to be sinister
.
I don't know, though, sister.
I don't know though.
That's what draws you in istheir innocence, and then they,
they turn the tables on you.
Yes, I don't know what if thatwas like one of her happiest
memories in life, and then, whenthis person died, she returned
(34:08):
to the time of her childhood,when she was on the Queen Mary
swimming in the pool.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
I think that's beautiful.
I would just like that.
Happiest memory.
To know if it's true or not,but not be relived while I'm
touring the boat.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
That's what I want to think about it's like her
happiest story is anotherperson's, a living person's
trauma.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Oh my gosh, I hate it .
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Earlier we mentioned that Winston Churchill had been
a passenger passenger on theship and in fact he traveled on
the queen mary a number of times.
He always stayed in the sameroom and that is often now
referred to as the winstonchurchill suite.
He very famously smoked cigarsand people have smelled cigar
smoke by his suite and otherplaces on the ship, and then an
(34:57):
apparition of him has been seenlooking out over the sports deck
Another famous story.
The story is of an 18-year-oldBritish man named John that
joined the Queen Mary's crew in1966 as a fireman and bilge
cleaner in the number threeboiler rooms.
1966 as a fireman and bilgecleaner in the no 3 boiler rooms
(35:20):
.
At 3.55 am on Sunday, july 10thof the same year, john was
somehow trapped between thewatertight door no 13 and the
frame of the door.
After the misfortune of theTitanic, there was an act put in
place where all of the lowerwatertight doors were to close
in preparation for imminentcollision if there was like poor
visibility.
On this night, the Queen Maryencountered heavy fog and the
crew followed their regulationsto seal the doors.
(35:42):
This was also talked about inthe Unsolved Mysteries episode
and there were many staffmembers that commented that they
have seen him.
One employee was closing downthe tour route through the ship
when she was going up the stepsand something made her turn
around.
She didn't really know why shedid it.
She described seeing a man indirty blue overalls behind her.
She stepped aside to let him goby, thinking like he was a
(36:04):
worker on the ship, but when shedid he was gone.
There are other reports of anOld Spice ghost over the years
in different places on the ship,where people smell the scent of
Old Spice and no one is aroundthem.
Isn't that wild?
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Old Spice of all things I know I was like the.
Old Spice ghost, but it's athing.
I can't quite remember.
The scent I think I remembernot liking it.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Countless EVPs, which are electronic voice phenomenon
, so like voices caught on audiorecordings, have been captured
on the ship.
There have been sightings,smells, cold sensations and even
conversations with ghosts thathave happened on the ship.
So I want to leave you with aghost conversation that happened
(36:58):
.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
I was going to say what are the conversations.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Cal State Fullerton and Cal Poly Pomona had their
dance on board the Queen Mary in1998.
A couple of friends went in touse the women's restroom.
One of them had a conversationwith another lady in the
restroom that was dressed in auniform.
After a few minutes the womanhad left and the friend of the
girl was like what were youtalking about in the bathroom?
(37:24):
She said she was having aconversation with the other lady
in there and her friend toldher that she did not see anyone
else in there, nor did she hearanyone else talking.
She thought her friend told herthat she did not see anyone
else in there, nor did she hearanyone else talking.
She thought her friend was justlike talking, oh, that's.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Isn't that creepy?
That's where you would startquestioning your sanity.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
But also maybe most of the ghosts on the Queen Mary
are really friendly.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Maybe you know I'm a little disappointed.
I was hoping some of them aremore malevolent.
I don't know what that saysabout me, but well, we do have a
podcast called Dark City.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
This is true, but really, all in all, it's more
like they like to interact, iswhat it seems like.
There was a story of a ladysitting at a restaurant and her
friend got up and went to go tothe bathroom and she turned and
looked at this table that wasclose by her and she saw this
(38:26):
young girl in this extravagantgreen gown, all glamorous, and
she was like, oh my gosh, she'sso pretty, look at her clothing,
whatever.
And then a door opened, likedown a ways in the dining area,
wherever she was, and she lookedup over at the door to see if
it was her friend coming backand it wasn't.
And she looked back over at thetable and nobody was there.
(38:51):
There was a well-known Britishpsychic that spoke on the day of
the Queen Mary's launch in 1934.
Mabel Fortescue Harrison washer name and she was quoted
saying most of this generationwill be gone, including myself,
when this event occurs.
However, the Queen Marylaunched today will know its
greatest fame and popularitywhen she never sails another
mile and never carries anotherpassenger.
(39:12):
In general, reading these booksand watching the documentary
researching the ship, there wasgreat love for the Queen Mary.
So, friends, stay away from thedark side, because if you don't
, you may end up haunting theplaces you loved so much.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Well, thanks everyone for joining.
Just a reminder you can find uson Instagram, Facebook and
threads under the name Dark CityPod.
Next time we will cover thegroups in and on.
It's one of the more well-knowncults from the Los Angeles area
.
It's a group that started outto help heroin addicts recover
(39:54):
and evolved into something muchdarker and disturbing from there
, and in fact, many of the very,very horrific techniques of the
troubled teen industry tracetheir roots back to this group.
So it's going to be a heavierepisode Until then.
Until then, Bye.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Bye, thank you.
Hey, dark City fans.
This is April and this is Leah.
She was nicknamed Grey Ghost,carried the biggest stars and
politicians of her time, was theplace where Winston Churchill
planned the invasion of Normandy, was part of a crash where 330
men lost their lives, and is thehome of more ghost stories than
(00:22):
you may think possible.
Today, we're talking about theocean liner the Queen Mary.
This is Dark City Season 1, losAngeles.
Leah, I have to tell yousomething.
I've been waiting to tell youthis and I don't know if you've
been on Goodreads lately, but Ifinally read the Britney Spears
(00:46):
book.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh, you did.
Oh good, I mean also.
It's so sad, but ironically Ijust updated my Goodreads.
I hadn't updated it in like ayear or something.
That's so funny.
I didn't see your update, butyeah, what did you think?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
It was really interesting.
I can't believe, like all ofthe I don't know, just all of
the horrible stuff that happenedto her and like even her
upbringing.
I know From the outside itappeared like she was from this
wholesome, happy family and itwas completely the opposite.
No wonder she had so manyissues.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Right.
I think I can't remember if Iassigned it to my book club or
if everybody just read it anyway, but I remember doing the
debrief that was the impressioneverybody had coming away from.
It was just, you really don'tknow what's going on in a
person's personal life at alland I just think of, like, in
our little dark world of truecrime and cults, how many um,
(01:44):
like families like you see thepicture and they all look great
and they look so happy but itturns out like the wife murdered
the husband or the husbandmurdered the wife and the kids
and you just really don't know.
And social media and media ingeneral is just, you know you're
getting like a very likecurated snapshot into someone's
(02:08):
life.
It's very select things.
Yeah, before we dive into theepisode, I just wanted to remind
everybody to share Dark City,share the love with your friends
, your family, anyone who youthink might like it To share it.
I think it's pretty consistentacross whatever platform you're
on, whether it's Apple Podcastsor Spotify, but usually either
(02:31):
on the episode or the showitself, there's those three dots
in the top right part of thescreen on your iPhone.
Well, at least looking at thestats, almost all of you are
listening on an iPhone, don't?
worry I don't really know muchmore than locations and devices.
On those devices, usually, likewhen you click those buttons,
you will have an option toeither copy the link or share by
(02:53):
text or social media orwhatever.
We would love it if you couldspread the word With that.
I'll turn it back over to you.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
April but that I'll turn it back over to you, april.
Okay, so let's get into thestory of the queen mary.
The queen mary was part of thecunard line of ships and was
tasked to be built by john brownand company near glasgow in
scotland.
The building of this oceanliner is often referred to as
job number 534, as the ship hadyet to be named.
(03:24):
Construction started in 1930and lasted until early 1932,
when work stopped for 27 monthsdue to the Great Depression.
Almost 14,000 people thatworked either directly or
indirectly on the Queen Marywere out of work.
Finally, in 1934, work resumedon the Queen Mary thanks to a
(03:47):
British government loan.
This became a step in the rightdirection for the British
economy, increasing share pricesin London Stock Exchange and
not to mention all of the jobsthat it created.
Again, the cost of building theQueen Mary itself at the time
was around £5 million.
The cost of building the QueenMary itself at the time was
(04:08):
around 5 million pounds, asDavid Ellery's book the RMS
Queen Mary explains.
As of 2021, the amount of moneywas equivalent to roughly 335
million pounds, or for us in theUnited States, 464 million
dollars.
So this next part I had to lookup, and that was the
designation RMS in front of theQueen Mary, which stands for
(04:29):
Royal Mail Ship.
This was because the Queen Maryat one time transported mail
between Britain and Halifax,canada, and then, I think,
eventually maybe into the US aswell.
Like there are with so manyhistorical accounts, there are
multiple versions of how theship was named.
Both that we'll talk about hadindividual stories or even a
(04:51):
melding of them, depending onwhat source it came from.
So they might all hold somecredibility, but this first one
I thought was the most fun.
The ocean liner Queen Mary wasoriginally going to be named
Victoria.
A delegation from the Coonardline, whose head was Sir Ashley
Sparks, was given permission tovisit King George V for approval
(05:14):
.
When proposing the name, sparkssaid that they wanted to name
the ship after England'sgreatest queen Present on this
day was Queen Mary, andapparently she said I would be
delighted.
So I thought that was kind offunny.
The other story I came across inthe Naming of the Ship takes
part prior to the launch of theQueen Mary.
(05:36):
On Wednesday September 26, 1934, the ship was launched into the
River Clyde in Scotland.
In honor of the launching therewere numerous dukes and
duchesses and British royals.
The other version of the namingof the ship is that the king
did not tell anyone the name ofthe ship and when Her Majesty
(05:58):
Queen Mary the person cut thesatin cord and smashed a bottle
of Australian wine on the bow,she said I am happy to name this
ship Queen Mary.
I wish success to her and toall those who sail in her.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
I like both of the stories where she's just like
thanks, this is named after menow.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, I mean, when you're the Queen of England you
can pretty much do whatever youwant.
In the book Haunted Queen ofthe Seas the Living Legend of
the RMS Queen Mary, the authorNicole Strickland writes no one
knew about her decision untilshe stepped up to the
microphones and disclosed thevessel's new name to the world.
(06:42):
I'm not sure if this is her wayof saying that any other source
that says it happened anotherway was wrong, but she says this
three different times in threedifferent ways in that section.
So she was very adamant aboutthat.
There is video footage of HerMajesty Queen Mary on this day
giving her speech.
(07:02):
That was in part of thedocumentary that I watched, so I
kind of, you know, saw it formyself, so that part is true.
Interestingly, the spillway thatthey used to launch the Queen
Mary they had to basically likebutter it up.
They used 150 tons of tallow,which is fat from animals like
(07:25):
cattle and sheep, and 50 tons ofhard soap to like launch it
into the river.
Isn't that weird that is.
So my question is did that notaffect any of the animal or
plant life in or around theriver?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
but yeah, I don't know, mean, I'm sure it did.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I don't think they were quite as conscious of those
things.
So at this point the Queen Marywas not actually finished being
built, it was more just likethe shell of it had been put
together.
It took another 18 months tomake the ship into the luxury
liner it became.
She took her actual maidenvoyage on May 27, 1936.
So the Queen Mary was prettyextravagant in her time and had
(08:14):
three class sections aboard.
The first class section couldaccommodate 776 passengers.
The second class section had784, passengers, the second
class section had 784 and in thethird class section 579.
She had 12 decks, first andsecond class swimming pools, and
(08:38):
the first class swimming pool,I think, was sometimes open to
the third class passengers forlike a brief time, and so in a
lot of references they call itthe first and third class
swimming pool, but just for thesake of not having to say that
every time, I'm just going tocall it the first class swimming
pool.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
I love that I'm going to go take a swim, but in the
third class swimming pool.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I'm not special enough for the first class, but
you can't just call it the firstclass pool Anyways.
So she had the swimming pools,she had a first class and second
class gymnasium.
Movies were shown in the firstclass lounge and the third class
smoking rooms.
There was a resident orchestraon board and wireless equipment
(09:18):
that was able to broadcast radioprograms from 38 speakers in
differing locations.
The main dining area was largerthan the New York Waldorf
Astoria Grand Ballroom.
So this was a pretty big shipand it was bigger and it was
faster than the Titanic.
So if you think about kind ofthe grandeur of that ship, this
(09:42):
one definitely rivaled that.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I was hoping to take a tour of it before we recorded
today and I just didn't get iton the calendar.
But I've at least seen it inLong Beach, where it's currently
reciting Well, you should waitfor me.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I don't know when I'm coming to see you, but I really
want to go.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I don't know if you can wait for me, but I I may not
be able to.
I could go back.
You know why?
Cause there's not just one tour, like the tour company.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Oh my gosh, there's so many.
We'll talk about all the stuffthat they do to kind of at the
end.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
It's so much cool stuff.
I know it's crazy Like to me.
I know it's crazy Like to me.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I would never want to go on a cruise.
I think I would do it.
I would go on a cruise longbefore I would sleep in the
Lizzie Borden house.
What you could talk to me talkme into going on a cruise way
more easily.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I don't know, you could talk me into sleeping at
the Lizzie Borden house.
I mean, it depends on the crowdon the cruise ship, that's all
I'm saying.
I'm just saying a dead womanwhat if it was no kids?
A dead woman who may or may nothave murdered her parents
several centuries Maybe itwasn't several centuries it's
like less scary to me than likeSeriously, I don't know.
(11:09):
There's something about itwhere I Like do you feel trapped
?
I do feel trapped.
I also can get motion sickness,so that idea I just don't like.
Like If they're big enough, Ithink you don't feel it as much.
Probably not.
And you know I did an overnightfrom Estonia to Sweden to
(11:31):
Stockholm and that was fine.
I had no issue with that.
Yeah, see, you could totally goon a cruise, but not like that
was just overnight, but extendedfor several weeks.
I don't know there's somethingabout that that just makes but
extended for several weeks.
I don't know there's somethingabout that that just makes me
feel very trapped, although I dolike the idea that you can
cover so much ground and see somany different things, because
(11:55):
it's this vessel you just goaround on, but I might skip the
Carnival Cruise.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Other luxuries on the Queen Mary included a rooftop
club, deck games first, secondand third class shopping that
ranged from spacious and highquality shops for the first
class to the third class storethat sold a variety of regular
items.
It was probably more likedrugstore type items.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
I love this like first versus third class thing.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Oh, yeah, they're like you don't.
Yeah, you can't come here.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Is there like pretty woman where they're like?
Speaker 1 (12:32):
absolutely Big mistake.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Excuse me, ma'am, I think you should be in the third
class store shopping.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Exactly, there were bank branches in various
locations of the ship, barbersand hair salons in each class
and a dog walking service forthose traveling with their pets.
And okay, get this, the dogswere kept in kennels on the
sports stack.
So okay, and they by the ship'sbutcher.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Oh, that sounds absolutely awful.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I'm sure they weren't eating their animals because
someone would notice, and Ithink they had higher standards
than that, but I just feel like,was that the best choice?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
I don't know there's something about that that does
not pair nicely, and like ifLittle Muffin went missing't
know there's something aboutthat that does not pair nicely,
and like if little muffin wentmissing.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
You know she ran overboard with a dog was walking
her.
I highly doubt they ate theirdogs.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
But oh, my, that's not okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
It was just a strange choice, I had just had to throw
that in.
Yeah, so really, the amenitiesgo on and on.
They had laundry services, aprint shop, a gardener, a water
softening plant, catholic andProtestant chapels, a synagogue,
rotary Club meetings which Idon't really know what the
Rotary Club is chefs and variousrestaurants.
(14:01):
Chefs and various restaurants.
The Queen Mary also had aworking fireplace located in the
first-class smoking room, whichis a really risky luxury,
because fire on board a ship islike very serious.
It could be the ruin ofeveryone.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
It's crazy to me, even maybe it was up until like
the 80s where people could smokeon airplanes.
That's just, oh, yeah, that'sjust nuts to me, that, yeah, it
was like that yeah, it's totallyfine.
There's nothing wrong with thatI'm sure everything will be
fine like any good cruise ship.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Now she had designated children's areas.
I thought this was pretty cool.
It was true then and it's truenow, because sometimes you just
need a little time away.
You know, all three classes hadtheir own designated area on
the corresponding decks.
So the first class children'sarea had a built-in slide with
three caves beneath it, a loghut and a movie area where the
(14:59):
kids could watch cartoons.
The second area had an airplanethat ran on a wire to make it
look like it was flying overheadand a large model train that
ran around three walls of theroom.
And the poor third class kidsSorry, the third class
children's area.
(15:19):
The room was much more simpleand it was said to look more
like a classroom than a playroom, which is kind of sad to me.
Oh my gosh, I know right.
Of course, all three had othertoys and games in them too, so
it's not like they were limitedby what they had.
Yeah, none of these playroomsexist on the Queen Mary today
because of the many overhaulsthat were to happen in the
(15:42):
upcoming years, and we'll kindof talk about that.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I really want to see the caves.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I know there's pictures, okay.
So yeah, there's pictures outthere, cool.
So the decor on board waspredominantly art deco, with
just a little bit of art Nauvoo.
And when I read this, my braininstantly went to the movie.
There's Something About Mary,do you remember?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
this movie.
I just love that.
The movie is there's SomethingAbout Mary.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Oh my gosh, I didn't even make that correlation.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Sorry that's cheesy, but still Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Okay, so here's where it all ties together.
So Cameron Diaz's character isnamed Mary and she's dating this
private investigator played byMatt Dillon Ben Stiller is kind
of the main character in themovie and he hires Matt Dillon,
or Matt Dillon's character, toinvestigate Mary before he tries
(16:42):
to reconnect with her.
But Matt Dillon, as theinvestigator, falls in love with
her and for whatever reason, heposes as an architect, and so
on one of their dates they go toan architectural art show and
she asks him if the art show ismore Art Deco or more Art
Nouveau, and so it just clicked.
(17:04):
So I completely broke frominvestigating the history of the
Queen Mary and I did a littlebit of deep dive on Art Deco and
Art Nouveau and I'll give youjust a brief summary and
afterwards you'll be able toanswer that question which one
is it?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Okay, good Life skills.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Okay.
So Art Nouveau came first andwas popular in the 1890s to
1910s.
It was inspired by more naturalforms like flower and plant
stalks, insects', wings andsometimes aquatic themes.
This artistic style utilizedlong lines that swirl or curve,
and art pieces were asymmetrical.
(17:46):
This was an intellectualmovement against earlier art
forms and sought to unify artseen in furnishings,
architecture and decorativethings.
So it was more like beauty innature and not in the new
industrialism that was kind ofcoming about at that time, in
the new industrialism that waskind of coming about at that
(18:07):
time.
Art deco started in Paris in1910, but gained popularity in
Europe and the US in the 1920sand 30s.
Art deco utilized metals withpointed edges, rounded and arch
tops.
Objects were symmetrical andthere was a simplicity to them.
So think of like the Chryslerbuilding, the Empire State
Building or the style of themovie the Great Gatsby.
It was meant to highlightglamour, luxury and
(18:30):
technological progress.
This art style grew as ArtNouveau was thought to be
old-fashioned.
So, just like the skinny jeansera has transitioned into the
mom jeans era, there you are, ohmy gosh, I wonder if they call
them mom jeans.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Hey, gen Zers, they do, they do.
Yes, they're mom jeans.
So why are they wearing them?
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Because they weren't alive when they were out of
fashion.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
That's why they didn't see the Saturday Night
Live skit.
Make them mom jeans, oh gosh.
Make them mom jeans, oh gosh.
I'm like, oh, I am so gladthey're starting to go out of
style and I am so beyondthrilled because I feel like
they make you look worse not you, but like me, that's all I'm
(19:19):
saying yeah that's our bestadvice, but as a side note I
still wear skinny jeans, so thatmeans we're old in the fashion
world.
I do very much like, though.
Um, I like the boot cut and Ilike like the wide like pants
that are coming back.
I think those are really cute,basically, and they're comfy and
it needs to be mid-rise.
Oh, I was going to say onething about Art Deco before we
(19:41):
move around.
So, like Los Angeles City Hall,that's one of the more
well-known buildings in theskyline here in Los Angeles, but
that's Art Deco.
I personally hate Art Deco.
I do not like it Really.
Oh, I think it's kind of cool.
Oh, I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
I think I like hints of it.
I don't know if I'd likeeverything in that style, but,
like I don't know, earrings thatare designed like 1920s art
deco, like jewelry, I think isreally super cool, okay, yeah,
so just not in architecture.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, like if my whole house was that way.
I don't think I'd like it.
Yeah, yeah, like if my wholehouse was that way.
I don't think I'd like it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay.
So to further speak of thegrandeur of the ship, there were
a slew of interior designers,artists, sculptors, painters and
other craftsmen that completedmurals and paintings, wood
paneling, carvings andinstallation of other opulent
(20:43):
decor.
Celebrities were often aboardthe ship, and here are a handful
.
Okay, let's see who yourecognize Leah, Winston
Churchill, Bob Hope, Bing Crosby, Fred Astaire, Elizabeth Taylor
, Greta Garbo, Walt Disney,Jimmy Stewart, Harpo, Marx and
(21:06):
Laurel and Hardy.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
I recognize almost all of those.
I'm guessing they were not inthe third class with the
plebeians.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
With the plebeians?
No, they were not Okay.
So for the rest of you, if youdon't know who they are.
Google it Out of everyone.
I'm sure everybody knows whoWalt Disney is, but I also
really hope that you know whoWinston Churchill is.
I need to say a special thankyou, though, to my mom, who,
(21:38):
about 10 years ago, gave me thecomplete DVD collection of
Laurel and Hardy for Christmas,so I know who they are.
Okay, we're going to get alittle more serious here.
In the documentary the QueenMary Greatest Ocean Liner, there
were also stories of Jewishfamilies that fled from Europe
(22:00):
to America as Hitler rose topower.
One particular story gave megoosebumps, and I listened to it
a couple of times and then likewriting this out and rereading
it.
Every single time it gives megoosebumps.
It's just a good story, okay.
(22:23):
So here it is.
There was a family that hadbought last minute tickets for
the Queen Mary, but the familyhad to travel from Germany to
France to be able to board theship.
They traveled via train, andwhen they got to the border of
Germany and France, the trainstopped and the Gestapo boarded.
Passports were checked and, ofcourse, there were problems with
the family's papers.
Eventually, that evening, thefamily was let go, but this stop
(22:45):
in the trip made the family toolate to be able to get onto the
Queen Mary in time in time.
The father of this family wentto the person in charge on the
train and begged him totelegraph the captain of the
Queen Mary and tell him whathappened and ask him would he
wait for them?
By this time there were 2000passengers already on the Queen
(23:07):
Mary and it was pretty muchready to leave.
The captain waited six hoursfor that family to be able to
board, and so one of the sons inthe family told the story and
he was, I guess, six years oldat the time, and in the
documentary he says unbelievablemiracles happen.
(23:27):
The guy that was telling thisstory described seeing the
Statue of Liberty and he he saidwhen the family saw it they
felt free.
It was just, I don't know, kindof heartwarming.
World War II changed things forthe ship.
On September 2nd 1939, the shipwas ordered to go on full war
(23:49):
alert and the next day when thewar officially started in Europe
, all UK ocean liners wereordered not to use any routine
trade routes.
When these orders came in, theQueen Mary was still out to sea.
By September 5th the ship hadpulled into Pier 90 in New York
City without any danger Due tothe war, it was fated to sit for
six months in the same place.
(24:10):
There was not only fear ofattack from German submarines in
the Atlantic, but also someintelligence reports pointed to
Nazi operatives in New Yorkplanning to set fire or blow up
the ship.
During the war, hitler evenoffered a reward for any German
U-boat captain that could sinkthe Mary.
Finally, the British Ministry ofWar Transport summoned the
(24:32):
ocean liner to assist withduties associated with the war.
In order to make the ship ready, she was painted gray as a
means of camouflage.
This earned the ship thenickname of the Gray Ghost.
The inside had to be convertedas well.
Artwork and extravagantfurnishings were removed and
covered up in order to addtoilets, sinks, bunks, showers
(24:53):
and other necessities on theship.
The observation deck housedbunks that were five beds high.
The sun deck gained guns, rocketlaunchers and other defensive
weaponry, including a degaussingstrip which makes a ship
basically invisible to magneticmines.
The main technique used indefense came from the ship's
(25:15):
speed, which she was known for.
The Queen Mary had won the blueribbon for speed more than once
.
The primary role of the QueenMary at this time was to carry
British and Australian troopsfrom one place to another to aid
in the war effort.
At times there were 15,000troops on board.
(25:35):
By the time the war was over,the ship had carried almost a
million soldiers, includingwomen from the Women's Army
Corps, and after the US enteredthe war, the Queen Mary also
transported American troops.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
I didn't know that's how it got the nickname the gray
ghost.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, I didn't know that either until I.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
I figured it probably was a reference to one of the
many ghost stories.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Right, yeah, yeah.
So so far things have beengoing pretty well for the Mary.
But on October 2nd 1942, theQueen Mary and six other
destroyers were being escortedto Scotland by another ship, the
Curacaoa.
On this date there were 15,000aboard the Mary and 439 aboard
(26:26):
the Curacaoa.
Because of the slower speed ofthe Curacaoa and the Mary,
sailing in a zigzag pattern toconfuse enemy ships, the Queen
Mary ended up surpassing herescort ship and the captain of
the Curacaoa didn't know exactlywhen the Queen Mary was going
to change course, according toauthor Nicole Strickland.
(26:46):
To add to this, the QueenMary's compass was off by two
degrees, which altered each ofthe captain's calculations.
So at 2.14 pm, the Queen Maryhit the Curacaoa and sliced it
in half.
Now, at this time, the QueenMary had strict orders to stop
(27:07):
under no conditions, because ifthey did, they'd be a sitting
target for the German U-boats.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Oh, that's horrific.
I can't imagine for everybodyon that ship.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yes, so the other destroyers and their convoy were
contacted to help in an effortto pick up survivors, but
ultimately the Queen Mary didnot stop, so the Curacaoa was
sunk within five minutes of thecrash.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Oh, that's horrible.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah, and the Queen Mary only had damage to the bow
that was later repaired, likewith concrete, and that I think
eventually they fixed it again.
But 338 men died as a result ofthe crash and 101 men survived.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
That's horrific.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Isn't that awful, and it was just like miscalculation
.
And this incident was coveredup well, until the war was over
too, so a lot of people didn'tknow about this when it happened
.
So after the war was over,troops were brought home on the
Queen Mary.
That was one of her jobs.
But also coming home on theQueen Mary not at the same time,
(28:12):
though, but also coming home onthe Queen Mary not at the same
time, though were 22,000 warbrides and their children, so
the ship was again repurposed toaccommodate the new population
on board.
Following this time, the QueenMary was again refurbished and
restored to her former glamorousself Feeding.
Ahead to 1965, the majority oftransatlantic travel was by
(28:33):
airplane, and travel by oceanliners was not as popular of an
option.
It took more food, more time,more gas.
In 1967, the Queen Mary tookher final voyage from
Southampton.
There is much debate over thefate of the Queen Mary, but in
the end the city of Long Beachpaid $3.45 million for the Queen
(28:55):
Mary to be used as a museum andhotel, and then I'm pretty sure
the city spent even more moneytrying to refurbish, repair,
just because the ship was as oldas it was.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Oh sure.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
So it really turned out to be much more than that,
and then now I think there's afoundation for it.
Today, the Queen Mary is openfor tours.
You can book a stay in theportion set up as a hotel.
You can book events likeweddings and meetings, and there
are a number of dining options.
And, very importantly, when Ido come out and I visit the ship
(29:30):
and you come with me, they havea Royal Sunday brunch with
quote free flowing champagne.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Oh done.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I love champagne, so let's do it, they also have.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
oh, go ahead, I'm in.
I don't care how many ghostsare on the ship.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Me too.
I just want to go there.
That's like I feel like that'sreally big for me to say that,
but I really want to go.
Okay, they also have wine andpaint nights, karaoke,
margaritas on the merry, whichis like a happy hour.
They just have so many coolevents.
That's not even all of them.
I just really want to go thereand hang out.
They have all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I didn't realize they had that much stuff.
I just knew about all theghosts.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
There is so much history on this ship and really
that's an understatement.
As always, there was so muchmore information that I just
couldn't include.
But how do you have this muchglitz and glamour, joy,
excitement and tragedy withoutleaving some of that energy
behind?
Enter the ghost stories of theQueen Mary.
(30:38):
So this is going to soundcompletely ridiculous, but as I
was researching and readingbooks on the Queen Mary, I came
across a picture of thefirst-class swimming pool and I
knew instantly that I had seenit before and I remembered it
from this episode of UnsolvedMysteries from when I was a kid.
(31:00):
I Googled it because I had tofind out and I don't know why it
stuck with me.
I think because ghosts havealways like terrified me, but
also like I can't look away,kind of thing.
From this episode I rememberthe look of the pool.
It had, like the two staircasescoming down the side.
(31:22):
There was a story of a littlegirl that was a ghost, that like
they recreated in the show,that like would play and splash
in the water, and then therewere these footprints like on
the splash in the water and thenthere were these footprints
like on the deck outside thepool.
Naturally, I made my wholefamily watch this episode with
me.
After I told them about how Ilike completely, I was like I
(31:44):
know the swimming pool.
In the episode they interviewedstaff that worked on the Queen
Mary and they told kind of theirown stories of their own
ghostly encounters.
They had paranormalinvestigators come on and
investigate on the ship.
So it was really interesting tolike watch it and I was like,
oh my God, this is what Iremember.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I do vaguely remember that Unsolved Mysteries episode
, and that might've been where Igot really intrigued with this
ship way back in the day.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
And it's so funny as I was reading about some of
these like ghost stories.
I knew them already but I don'tknow how, so I think maybe it
was like from that episodebecause a lot of them were in
that episode of the show.
Nicole Strickland's book has somuch great history and ghost
stories within it.
Not only has she hadexperiences herself on the ship,
(32:34):
which she talks about in herbook, but she summarizes some of
the stories and she usesstories that people have
directly submitted from theQueen Mary archives.
We're going to start at theswimming pool with a little girl
ghost.
Her name is Jackie and she'sroughly around age five or six
(32:54):
and she's been heard singing andlaughing.
In the episode of UnsolvedMysteries, the employee tells
the story of hearing splashingand then seeing those wet
footprints that we talked aboutthat name drowning or passing
(33:16):
away in this area of the ship.
There's also a story from thearchives that was similar to
this account where a husband andwife were touring the ship and
heard splashing sounds and thensaw wet footprints, and I don't
think I've said this before, butthe pool has been drained for a
long time just because of likethe bottom was, I don't know,
wearing out basically, like thebottom was, I don't know,
(33:37):
wearing out basically, and atthe time that the husband and
wife were there touring it wasdrained.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Then, too, I don't I.
There's something about childghosts that I hate.
I don't know why.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I mean, I feel like they're not going to be sinister
.
I don't know, though, sister.
I don't know though.
That's what draws you in istheir innocence, and then they,
they turn the tables on you.
Yes, I don't know what if thatwas like one of her happiest
memories in life, and then, whenthis person died, she returned
(34:08):
to the time of her childhood,when she was on the Queen Mary
swimming in the pool.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
I think that's beautiful.
I would just like that.
Happiest memory.
To know if it's true or not,but not be relived while I'm
touring the boat.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
That's what I want to think about it's like her
happiest story is anotherperson's, a living person's
trauma.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Oh my gosh, I hate it .
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Earlier we mentioned that Winston Churchill had been
a passenger passenger on theship and in fact he traveled on
the queen mary a number of times.
He always stayed in the sameroom and that is often now
referred to as the winstonchurchill suite.
He very famously smoked cigarsand people have smelled cigar
smoke by his suite and otherplaces on the ship, and then an
(34:57):
apparition of him has been seenlooking out over the sports deck
Another famous story.
The story is of an 18-year-oldBritish man named John that
joined the Queen Mary's crew in1966 as a fireman and bilge
cleaner in the number threeboiler rooms.
1966 as a fireman and bilgecleaner in the no 3 boiler rooms
(35:20):
.
At 3.55 am on Sunday, july 10thof the same year, john was
somehow trapped between thewatertight door no 13 and the
frame of the door.
After the misfortune of theTitanic, there was an act put in
place where all of the lowerwatertight doors were to close
in preparation for imminentcollision if there was like poor
visibility.
On this night, the Queen Maryencountered heavy fog and the
crew followed their regulationsto seal the doors.
(35:42):
This was also talked about inthe Unsolved Mysteries episode
and there were many staffmembers that commented that they
have seen him.
One employee was closing downthe tour route through the ship
when she was going up the stepsand something made her turn
around.
She didn't really know why shedid it.
She described seeing a man indirty blue overalls behind her.
She stepped aside to let him goby, thinking like he was a
(36:04):
worker on the ship, but when shedid he was gone.
There are other reports of anOld Spice ghost over the years
in different places on the ship,where people smell the scent of
Old Spice and no one is aroundthem.
Isn't that wild?
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Old Spice of all things I know I was like the.
Old Spice ghost, but it's athing.
I can't quite remember.
The scent I think I remembernot liking it.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Countless EVPs, which are electronic voice phenomenon
, so like voices caught on audiorecordings, have been captured
on the ship.
There have been sightings,smells, cold sensations and even
conversations with ghosts thathave happened on the ship.
So I want to leave you with aghost conversation that happened
(36:58):
.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
I was going to say what are the conversations.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Cal State Fullerton and Cal Poly Pomona had their
dance on board the Queen Mary in1998.
A couple of friends went in touse the women's restroom.
One of them had a conversationwith another lady in the
restroom that was dressed in auniform.
After a few minutes the womanhad left and the friend of the
girl was like what were youtalking about in the bathroom?
(37:24):
She said she was having aconversation with the other lady
in there and her friend toldher that she did not see anyone
else in there, nor did she hearanyone else talking.
She thought her friend told herthat she did not see anyone
else in there, nor did she hearanyone else talking.
She thought her friend was justlike talking, oh, that's.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Isn't that creepy?
That's where you would startquestioning your sanity.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
But also maybe most of the ghosts on the Queen Mary
are really friendly.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Maybe you know I'm a little disappointed.
I was hoping some of them aremore malevolent.
I don't know what that saysabout me, but well, we do have a
podcast called Dark City.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
This is true, but really, all in all, it's more
like they like to interact, iswhat it seems like.
There was a story of a ladysitting at a restaurant and her
friend got up and went to go tothe bathroom and she turned and
looked at this table that wasclose by her and she saw this
(38:26):
young girl in this extravagantgreen gown, all glamorous, and
she was like, oh my gosh, she'sso pretty, look at her clothing,
whatever.
And then a door opened, likedown a ways in the dining area,
wherever she was, and she lookedup over at the door to see if
it was her friend coming backand it wasn't.
And she looked back over at thetable and nobody was there.
(38:51):
There was a well-known Britishpsychic that spoke on the day of
the Queen Mary's launch in 1934.
Mabel Fortescue Harrison washer name and she was quoted
saying most of this generationwill be gone, including myself,
when this event occurs.
However, the Queen Marylaunched today will know its
greatest fame and popularitywhen she never sails another
mile and never carries anotherpassenger.
(39:12):
In general, reading these booksand watching the documentary
researching the ship, there wasgreat love for the Queen Mary.
So, friends, stay away from thedark side, because if you don't
, you may end up haunting theplaces you loved so much.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Well, thanks everyone for joining.
Just a reminder you can find uson Instagram, Facebook and
threads under the name Dark CityPod.
Next time we will cover thegroups in and on.
It's one of the more well-knowncults from the Los Angeles area
.
It's a group that started outto help heroin addicts recover
(39:54):
and evolved into something muchdarker and disturbing from there
, and in fact, many of the very,very horrific techniques of the
troubled teen industry tracetheir roots back to this group.
So it's going to be a heavierepisode Until then.
Until then, Bye.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Bye, thank you.
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